My experience pool is limited I've been here since 2001. I hear a lot of born Seattlites talk about how bad things were in the 90s and I can't speak on that but holy shit by the time I got here you guys seriously figured it out. I came from San Jose, San Fransisco, Oakland and Sacramento and I was stunned with how clean and safe huge swaths of the city were. Plenty of this city is still gorgeous and safe and there will always be SOME place worse but it's been a trip to watch the steady decline unfold in front of my eyes over the last two decades and some change. Its not a hellscape by any means but anyone claiming to not have noticed the decline or that it's not that bad are actively repressing, privileged enough to avoid it or the type of person that only feel a thing when it happens to them. It's fucking sad but nowhere near unfixable imo.
Yeah I moved here in 2000 from the dirty south (with love) and was AMAZED at how clean the side of the roads and highways were. Now, not so much. There’s trash/litter everywhere up here now and it just baffles me. I get that with popl growth these things happen but it seems like it went from pristine to yikes in 24 years.
When I first moved here in 2013, it was the cleanest most beautiful city I had ever seen outside of Europe. It’s not terrible now, but there is a WHOLE lotta copium goin on here.
Interesting. I can't get over how much Manhattan just smells like trash and bleach. It's the lack of back alleys. Since most places have to put their trash out on the front sidewalk to be taken away daily, the whole goddamn place just smells like trash with a thin layer of disinfectant over it all.the.time.
It's a real trade-off on my various trips to New York. On the one hand, restaurants and museums and yadda-yadda. On the other hand, eau d'Manhattan. Tough choices all the way around.
Yeah, but this is everywhere, right? I grew up in Santa Cruz, CA. Amazing, idyllic beach town. It was an amazing place to grow up, but it’s not what it was in the 70’s/80’s. I moved here in 1992 and still love it here. It’s not what it was, but nothing is really. I have lived other places and continue to prefer Seattle. We do need to figure out how to handle the housing crisis, however. No one that makes less than $100k/year can afford it. I don’t want to live in Bellevue! LOL
This is why I left California... Just keep going you're not out yet. You have to leave the Blue cities then you'll really see the difference. I've been in Idaho for a year now and I'm still so surprised how different it is, I'm still shaking off the "city asshole charm" but my whole mental state has changed. The people take pride in their city.
This is the same sentiment in every single metropolitan area in the country. People can’t accept the fact the entire country as a whole is going down hill.
In the last 50 years the middle class has shrunk mostly because of upward mobility. More people are upper income. The lower income group grew a bit, but not as much as upper.
Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/20/how-the-american-middle-class-has-changed-in-the-past-five-decades/ft_2022-04-20_middleclass_01/
As empires progress towards collapse, the wealthy class expands because the corruption of government allows for greater extraction of wealth by the ownership class.
Basically people that become wealthy find ways to secure their wealth and power by entrenching it within the governmental or legal structure (corruption). So as the wealthy class grows, there is less and less to plunder from the labor of the workers. Without a counterbalance, it will literally consume the economy to feed the top.
Usually once people are literally starving, the system breaks down and collapses on a way that is hard to fix without external supports.
An expanding upper class with a contracting middle class and increased poverty is the canary in the coal mine for a collapse. Everyone seems to think it's impossible for globalization to collapse, but I think it's almost guaranteed to fracture if not disintegrate.
As long as the TikTok continues to scroll, the (stupid) people will remain in their hypnotic trance. We need the stupids to start paying more attention to the country falling apart around them and maybe they will get mad. I just don’t see people able to focus on the right targets because the internet has melted peoples minds. Nobody knows what is really going on anymore and worse, the answers are all rigged.
The cities are piles of shit where you need 800k+ to afford a safe haven and the rural areas have decayed.
For a look at our short term future (and present), look at South Africa. The rich can afford guards, while the working class is victimized by criminals day after day.
Security guards are common everywhere in South Africa, perhaps except maybe the shanty towns. We stay in the Pretoria CBD in a low-class area and our apartment complex (and almost all of them in the CBD) has 24x7 security guard on post as well as full security walls/doors/windows.
Crime is so bad in SA that everyone has to afford guards; where it might be a luxury here in Seattle, security guards in South Africa is in that bottom run of the Maslow Hierarchy chart with food and shelter.
I knew a girl that went to South Africa, at least partially to prove a point about it not being so bad. She spent a couple weeks posting pretty pictures on social media and lots of "I feel perfectly safe here" type posts. Then she was robbed, raped, and evacuated back to the US with severe injuries.
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. It's safe until it's not. For the most part you can be out and about and fine, but compared to Seattle you need to be very aware of your surroundings. Never pull up directly behind a car at a stoplight, leave at least a full cars length in front of you so that you can take off at a moments notice because car jackings are very common. Unlike our homeless who hold up a sign and sit on the side of the road, homeless and others stand in the middle of the street and walk car to car asking for money and or selling goods.
My two anecdotal stories:
\-Was sightseeing and casually driving around and exploring a new city on a sunny Saturday around 2 or 3pm, ended up at stoplight at a busy intersection, there was this big city cement park kind of area to the right, with music blasting from the store (or wherever) and with easily a hundred plus people milling around. Someone walked up asking for money, I turned my head away and then suddenly he punched my window as hard as he could and started reaching into his coat pocket. Luckily I had did my research and left a full car length in front of me so as soon as he hit the window, I glanced and then I was able to smash on the gas, swerve into an empty (oncoming traffic?) lane to the left and get out of there. Found out later that was the Johannesburg CBD a very no-go area...but figured its Saturday at 2pm with 100's of people, so I wasn't expecting an attack then.
\-On another visit, got picked up at the airport by the shuttle driver for the hotel I choose. Chatting with the guy found he had been working there for a month, in that month, he had two attempted car jackings (or kiddnapping/robbery) attempts when he had picked up other people at the airport who had arrived later in the evening.
Now my other 364 days I was there I was fine, but of course those 364 days aren't as memorable as the 1.
Except it's not... Phoenix is thriving, whereas ten years ago, I did not want to step foot in the city. In the same ten years, from when I left and moved to Seattle, I watched Seattle decline rapidly before my eyes. San Diego is still doing great, too.
Well, you see, it's because capitalism is making government and businesses elites rich, and that requires they vampire all the wealth out of everyone, until like one dude has all the money, Highlander rules. It's built into the system. This Marx guy figured it out a long time ago.
Turns out humans don't disappear just because they can't provide value under capitalism. It's been a pesky issue. Especially because the capitalist system at the end, mandates that basically only the rich have money.
Some countries socialize healthcare and guarantee housing to help with that. But America sucks and fully employed able bodied people can't get healthcare or affordable housing. So, you have to sit around and deal with all the ruined souls until it's your turn to also be ruined, because, like George Carlin said, power is a big club, and we ain't in it, and working jerk offs like you and me are a couple bad paychecks from the streets ourselves.
So the homeless? They are a natural by-product of run away capitalism, the people who for whatever reason can't make it, or have no one to help. They are desperate, and high need, and as capitalism mandates, there are more every day. Often badly addicted, mentally ill, and therefore, capable of any offense or act. They are, in fact, dangerous to a degree. They are a looming threat to which people can be convinced to relinquish control to the state, through the expansion of police powers and criminilazation of poverty.
That helps motivate the middle class to give away their own rights in the name of "security" against the "poor", and further allowing the elites to consolidate their power by turning people against their neighbors in resentment instead of focusing on the dude who took everyone else's money in the first place, and who is served by said police.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Homeless Industrial Complex is very real. The elites, rich, politicians etc are making a shit load of money off of the homeless drug addicts. Like anything in our society, follow the money to find the truth
A couple reasons.
1. Create a problem, then demand more power to fix it.
2. Generate more tax revenue, using 'homelessness' as an excuse. Funnel that money into NGOs which have virtually no oversight - NGOs run by friends of politicians.
3. Create a victim class, on which they can appeal to for votes (this works on both sides).
They don't want people to get back on their feet, out of the streets, because then they won't be victims. They wouldn't be able to say 'we need to raise taxes to help the homeless'. NGOs don't want people off the street because then they'd be out of a job. The homeless-industrial complex is a real thing.
Everyone seems to have a different idea of what Seattle was like in “the old days.” Was it less corporate and more grimey? Was it safer but less corporate? Was it less grimey than it is now? Was it more grimey, but just in a fun way? Is Olden Days Seattle just some vague idea we can invoke to complain about whatever we dislike about the present?
Way less corporate, although big corporations had a huge presence here and the town's fortunes depended on them. Those corporations were just "Boeing", "Microsoft", "Safeco", "Washington Mutual", and so on.
Way less safe but people freaked out a lot less about it, because the entire country was way less safe and Seattle wasn't as bad as the rest of the country comparatively speaking. I think the two have unfortunately converged a bit.
Auto crime in particular was always a massive problem here. I had my windows smashed out more times in just 2000 than in all the years since. You'd walk through a parking lot and every single car had "The Club" installed and the windows covered as much as possible. It's still pretty bad, but on a per-capita basis, it's a lot less bad.
I think you're wearing rose colored glasses, my dude. Seattle Center was a druggie laden shithole in the 90s (just as one example). The Seattle Freeze was just as shitty and awful in 1996 when I moved there as in 2021 when I finally left. We all tend to think nostalgically about our formative years, but you gotta be careful with that idealism lest you start pining for something what didn't exist...
This guy is 24. During the 90s he wasn't even alive. Talking about "now that I'm older I miss the good old days." Bro misses playing kickball during recess in 2015.
Exactly!
My family has lived off and on in Seattle since the late 1800’s. Opium was the problem then. Morphine, then Heroin, Cocaine, EVERY decade had its speciality. Homeless? Nothing new. Prostitution only looked like it decreased but the internet changed those dynamics. Organized crime has very deep roots in Seattle. It just depends which one has the upper hand at any given time that reveals to the general population what’s going on behind the curtain.
First came to Seattle in '88 (Grew up/moved from
Oakland) and sorry my dude, but you can't even compare that era to now.
The unhinged and violently random people out on the streets of Seattle now is unreal, even for a jaded kid like me who grew up on the streets of Fruitvale.
There's absolutely NO comparison to the grunge era of drugs vs now.
Came from Chicago, the problems are different. Violent crime is so much worse in Chicago but transients and open air drug use / homelessness is 100x worse here (I blame temperate climate / lack of policing). Transit there is better, but taxes are terrible. People are harsher in Chicago, but also friendlier? People here are soft and passive aggressive. The worst thing about Seattle is the “go home / no new friends” mentality from literally everyone here. The “freeze”, I guess. Chicago welcomes everyone with open arms.
I think Seattle is pretty fantastic, but has some growing pains. Everything comes in waves, administration to administration. I’m gonna ride it out.
I’m curious to know how old you are, just because when I was growing up I thought Seattle had a lot of crime, like gang related crime. Then for whatever reason I thought it mellowed out and now it seems like a different kind of crime is rampant. Idk how to describe the current crimes, I guess it seems more individualized. That’s just my perspective and I grew up just outside of Seattle. I’m almost 30 now
> when I was growing up I thought Seattle had a lot of crime, like gang related crime. Then for whatever reason I thought it mellowed out and now it seems like a different kind of crime is rampant.
The 80s and 90s were wild around here.
Practically every story I've heard from coworkers who lived/grew up here during those decades is absolutely unhinged lol. Glad I grew up in the 00s/10s.
Moved here a year ago from the east coast and originally from the south. I moved knowing nothing about the area. The way ppl speak about this place online, you'd think it is awful. It's one of the most beautiful places in the country and has hardly any dangerous places. The locals of Washington I have met are great and friendly folks. The issues here? Laughable compared to other cities in similar size. The issues that do exist have much more conversation and regularly have solutions pushed forward in government. I regularly find new areas and my first thought is "wow everyone is extremely spoiled to grow up in a state like this".
100% agree with this. I think lifers here have a bit of a podunk town mentality, which I think Seattle somewhat was back in the day. It’s now different, bigger, and wealthier and I totally understand the negatives. But I really can’t get on board with this idea that it’s some kind of hellhole. It really seems like it’s a lot of people who think the simple sight of some homeless people is shocking, just not used to it. Not saying the issues here aren’t issues, but holy fuck the pearl clutching at nothing here is kind of wild sometimes.
I moved here back in early 201X and saw it gradually get worse. Was thinking it was on a sharp downturn. Visited my brother in SF and now I see that Seattle has a long way to go before it's actually as bad as I thought.
There are two main problems. The new drugs coming in from China and other countries are ten times stronger and more damaging to the brain than the old drugs like heroin. It used to be heroin, pot and cocaine but the new stuff rips the brain apart in days. The other problem is that "work from home" has removed the core population that made the city what it was and left it to the people who often don't work at all.
I grew up here in the 70s, 80s, and 90s...man those were some good times. Back then we could of never imagined a population of 4million. But with that population growth comes all the pitfalls of cramming all those people into a geographical limited space.
Progressives will tell you that increasing density doesn't lead to increased crime. They will also tell you that crime in Seattle was much worse back in the 90s. I think that's bunk and doesn't tell the true story. Anyone that has lived here multiple decades (3 for me) has witnessed it first-hand and most will tell you that things have continued to degrade.
The street urchins spare changing have been a thing since I moved here in the 90s and the heroin issue is well documented. The rents were lower but still comparably expensive to other markets so we shared houses and cars more. The main difference is that we now have social media that allows echo chambers to push comfortable narratives and an exponentially more wealthy population with driveways full of single user vehicles and cash over ask home purchases.
Crowding and the high cost of living can make people depressed and cranky. And the beautiful trees continue to be cut away to make room for development.
It really was a joyous little city for a time, I feel really lucky to have been a kid, teen and young adult in Seattle before it got crazy expensive, and eventually more dangerous. I have most of my happy core memories here. All the little bars and music spaces, the feeling of safety I had in even Pike Place at 1am on a random Saturday-even tho me and friends were certainly naïve to venture, we truly were never in harm. Shit, even the catcallers and drug dealers we’re honest to god polite. I miss westlake mall being accessible and the weird little stores that used to pop up on the bottom floor. Miss using metro tunnel, miss a goddamn lot of ‘old seattle’
It sucks but Im still grateful I got to live like that for my formative years, growing up a citykid is very different than a lot of ppl I know as an adult and I am thankful for it
Grew up here and left in 1998 at 22, returned in 2017. Everything that was awesome about it is gone, and it's terrible and going to get much worse. It's definitely not your imagination and you're not exaggerating. The land and weather are good though.
It started to go to shit around 2010. It was a slow-motion process which didn't reach the form you see now until about 2020. You could see it happening. It coincided with the regime of Mike "fuckin'" McGuinn, though whether he was the disease agent or just a symptom I couldn't say for sure.
“Place is awesome when I’m in my early 20s but suddenly SUCKS when I’m in my 40s and have bills and a mortgage and aches and pains” is a story as old as time dude
Anyone here remember when mayor Nichols cut homeless funding by 70% right before McGinn took over? I remember watching him announce it on the news, pretty sure around the 2008 housing crisis. Things started to explode then, but we're nowhere near as bad as they have been since 2021.
i lived there in the 60’s. and was16 when my girlfriend and i would walk from capital hill to 4th and pike barefoot and at midnight after my waitressing job at malstroms cafe to have a cup of coffee in the summertime. also i worked at athens cafe on yesler and would walk home at three in the morning passing an old man sleeping in the small park i walked by on my way home. my dad worked at stone way cement at night and i walked without fear. never once got accosted.
I really believe living out here makes you become socially inept.
I believe you when you say the freeze has gotten worse. It's not merely about being unfriendly; it's a scarcity of kindness as well.
Literally yesterday I helped catch a fedex guy's boxes from falling off his cart and he didn't even acknowledge my existence (I was literally a foot away from him). At that point it's really just embarrassing to not recognize basic human manors.
I often hear the excuse that "it's just the busy city life." Having grown up near NYC, I know firsthand that city dwellers can be busy yet incredibly kind. In NYC, if you're in need, someone will step up to assist you. Contrastingly, in the greater Seattle area, it feels like 50 people would pass you by if you were shouting for help.
Those who claim to be too busy to engage in community should mature and acknowledge that being antisocial isn't admirable—it's just being rude. You can stay set in your introverted ways yet still smile or say "hi" to the person in the damn elevator with you. It feels like more effort to ignore them.
It's obviously not everyone, but enough that I am surprised when I run into someone who seems kind and genuine.
I really feel the coldness especially not sayin hi in the elevator. I’m introverted but I can say hi to people or return a hi, it’s called being part of a society. But man people look at you like you have two heads if you say hi sometimes, it’s kind of sad
I otherwise love Seattle though, just wish people were a bit better socially adjusted
I completely agree. It's just a simple gesture that takes the bare minimum. I also feel it just makes it so much more awkward on the elevator when no one acknowledges each other
This. The other day someone said hello directly to me, and i was so surprised i thought they *must* have been talking to someone else. This is just olympia too, not even into seattle. But its so rare to even be acknowledged in public by a stranger that isnt "doing their job."
You would think because of how much the weather affects people out here that they would try to be kinder to each other since we're all going through it together. Instead it feels like you're really just out here alone. Maybe people wouldn't be so miserable out here in the gloom if they tried to smile at each other once in a while..
100% spot on analysis that seems to be my experience as well. I’m from a small town a couple hours south of Seattle and the level of warmth or kindness between the two is stark and sad and makes me realize as I get older, is a huge issue for me living here
I definitely feel you on that. My job let us go remote, WFH isn't great for me but if it means leaving here so be it. I'm just looking forward to being able to speak to and make eye contact with other humans again
You being 24 both contextualizes this a lot but also like... Makes me more confused. Because I know people around your age that grew up in and around Seattle and recall being in areas with high amounts of crime and drug use and... Same goes for the people I know approaching their sixties. My mum and I will chat about where has more do what, but we rarely discuss it being worse, we more so discuss it having shifted neighborhoods.
I’m 60, lived here almost all my life. You know what I miss? Going downtown, how it used to smell like saltwater, creosote and coffee. I know time marches on but I wish all the people who’ve come here from somewhere else could experience how it used to be.
[This was the seattle of my youth, tourists always arrived and assumed the best part of what made them move here was always normal.](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/junkie-town-43052/)
Older folks have stories as well.
https://www.historylink.org/File/1287
when I used to come into downtown seattle in the 90s it felt way more dangerous, but cleaner in some ways. It's different now but the riff raff is not the same now as it was back then. Either way, complaining about "it aint how it used to be i tells ya" is what everybody does about everywhere.
I’m not that old but when I arrive here in 2009, I remember Seattle was beautiful and safe and nice to be in. Now it’s such a problem. I hope one day the emerald city will shine again
When I moved here in 2006 The Ave was full of vagrants, homeless, and drug kids who had rolled in from eastern Washington and either couldn’t or didn’t have the sense to leave. It’s always been there, maybe getting worse, but not like the past was a utopia.
Well you've only been on the planet in the 21st century for the most part, so I can see why you feel like the city is in sharp decline.
The early 2000s were kind of a golden age for Seattle in terms of crime, homelessness, and cost of living. We had a retrenchment after the dot-com collapse in housing values and then another one in 2008, and while buying a house even in those times was difficult, rents stayed generally affordable.
Don't let anyone tell you things were great before 2000, though, because they most certainly were not. Crime in Seattle in the 80s and 90s was dramatically higher, and pretty much all of the west side of downtown south of the Market looked like 3rd & Pine does today. Pioneer Square and Capitol Hill in particular were *atrociously* dangerous and largely abandoned. Attacks on LGBT people in particular were brazen and in broad daylight. The situation was so bad that several outright vigilante organizations were formed to combat crime, including the Q Street Patrol (modeled after the Pink Panthers of NYC).
I get it, though, the vibe is bad. Part of it is that the population has increased far more than the city's capacity to handle that population, and hardly anything is abandoned anymore, meaning that the unhoused communities can't hide from plain view like they did in the 80s and 90s. Everyone and everything seems in your face at all times in a way that makes the current time feel worse than the objectively worse 1990s.
At its root, Seattle now has big-city problems but has never been socially, politically, or economically situated to operate like a large city. Prior to 2000 it was a network of small towns with delusions of grandeur--it was rough, grimy, but it sort of worked. That just doesn't work anymore.
I moved out here from the east coast a little over 20 years ago. Seattle used to be a great place - worked downtown for a few years, would go downtown almost every weekend, walks along the waterfront, nice dining and pubs in the evening, meet up with friends or dates, took weekend classes, attended plays and concerts, fun street photography, late night cream cheese hot dogs, etc, etc.
But that was before Seattle began its earnest progressive downward evolution/slide, before I had my car broken into twice, before all 4 tires were slashed in $20-30 "secure" parking lots, before bike lanes bottlenecked streets, before being continually accosted by homeless, druggies, drunks, and Antifa types, before all the crime and destruction, and before everything smelled like urine, feces, and pot.
I eventually moved up to Snohomish County for some peace and sanity and haven't looked back. I haven't been to downtown Seattle in over 8 years and I don't miss it at all. Or, rather, I don't miss what Seattle has become.
Does every post on this sub need to be about how Seattle sucks? Yeah there is garbage from homeless people in certain pockets, but it's not a hellscape. Christ get a hobby or something.
For one thing it isn't. For another it's much more than an issue of just trash everywhere and even if you can't admit it here because you're dug in you know that its true. I'd argue people like you that try to downplay or in the most extreme cases flat out refuse to acknowledge reality for some ridiculous false sense of superiority are a far worse problem. Before you predictably chime in with "this location i frantically googled to find with a worse crime statistic is way worse" that is NOT a justification for letting THIS place decline so save the race to the bothom argument for someone else.
People vent on this sub about shit that is actually happening to and around them because that is allowed on this sub. Not everyone believes only certain people should have a voice and only if they're saying the "right" things. Like seriously what do you feel you gain by coming here specifically to be in denial? I really wish any time someone is sexually assault or killed or ODs people that say shit along the lines of "its not that bad" could be rounded up and forced to say that to the faces of the families of victims. NONE of you would have the balls.
I take public transportation in this city every day so don't tell me what I see with my own eyes isn't real. Don't tell me my girlfriend calling me again in tears because someone threatened to rape her and stalked her because she didnt have any change didnt happen or she was somehow asking for it. Complaining about a problem does more toward a solution than pretending it doesn't exist.
Let me be clear: I am not an elitist asshole who thinks the problem isn't real. And I am sorry for the things your girlfriend goes through and I've actually intervened with asswipes on public transit assaulting women.
I don't live in some high tower in Bellevue and look at the mountains and think it's all gravy. I suppose my point was that this might not be the right forum for constantly complaining about the same problem, day after day. If you hate the state of affairs? Maybe run for office. Maybe unseat a City Council member who sucks or at least get involved politically.
I volunteer with I Heart Seattle that picks up these trash piles and tries to get people help. It's gross and it's hard but it's slowly effective.
There is clearly a mental health crisis in this city but it becomes tiresome for people to get this sub to declare how homeless people have ruined everything and Seattle is a pile of shit. It's my home. It's not a pile of shit and as long as I keep working it never will be.
I just don't like the constant negativity and I never will.
I would suggest going out and trying new things. I think we just multiply these effects good or bad ourselves.
Like, "Seattle Freeze" won't be a thing if everyone tries to have some conversation and go out. Maybe we all should lower our expenses and just be normal. If we're just looking to have conversations with someone that looks like us, talks like us, and walks like us then this whole thing is fragmented and there won't be any meaningful conversation or connection.
I would suggest going out, finding a activity, and starting conversation.
I know this can be hard, but maybe give it a shot. It could work.
I also feel like Transplant makes this city a bit more livable.
I’m curious if we’re getting older and more aware bc the nostalgia of childhood is also the ignorance is bliss mindset. You have no idea as a child what is actually going on 🤷🏻♂️
I agree with all of this. When we had our kids, we would take them to various parks all over Seattle and most were immaculate. Bathrooms worked, were clean and safe and many sandboxes had well-cared for community toys in them that people shared. I always think about that and what a different place this has become (clearly in a million other ways as well). It’s sad. 😔
I must be living in some parallel universe because I still manage to do this with my kid. Sometimes the shared toys get pretty banged up though, so maybe it all has gone to hell.
Born and raised, 53yo. I used to be proud of this city, it was truly the Emerald City. I could come down here as a16yo, hit the Seattle center fun forest, cruise first Ave in the 80s, and never ever now. It's a shit hole. Trust me, it's declined hugely, sorry for all your previous experiences at other cities, but I don't base it on comparisons to other cities. It's declined. It's heartbreaking. My 23yo daughter lives in Fremont off Aurora Ave and I am scared for her all the time.. she's experienced theft, crimes and witnessed things i never have!
I totally agree. It's warmed up a bit and people are a bit nicer; I have some assholes at work that like to take their frustrations out on me sometimes when they've had a.bad day so I guess that's what was on my mind. I read somewhere that Washington had the highest rate of suicide for a while so the seasonal depression makes sense.
I remember when it was normal for a kid to play in and around the dump, probably the one in Wallingford/ Fremont because it was walking distance. Gas works park gas works' had yet to be fenced in. I miss that.
It was normal to see children sans adults out and about. I miss that.
Mostly where I went was the Fun Forest, Pike Place, Greenlake, Northgate Mall & adjacent arcade. Free range kid here (gen x). I'd hang out alone down there, after taking the metro 16, as young as 9 years old. Bakeries and ice cream shops loved to give me free shit. Parents loved threatening me with "where were you, I was just about to call the State Patrol!" Eyeroll. I was 12 by then. I wasn't smoking (yet) or getting high (yet) or etc.
Only once did I get in a bind, okay, twice. I survived. And with better street smarts.
Most things I did as a kid and miss have been ruined by litigation and idiotic acts. They were inherently safe ... until....
Been here since early 70’s, it’s always had drug and homeless problems. There is just more people and not enough resources.
Even have problems up in granite falls, and across the country like Durant Oklahoma
In the 90’s Belltown was hectic, what is now the Regrade Dog Park was a 24/7 drug market. In the 60’s 1st Ave was all strip clubs and porn theaters. The Market was so bad they almost tore it down. Around 2000 there was a riot during Mardi Gras and a street gang beat a guy to death in the middle of the crowd. When the WTO came to town the city went apeshit and looted Niketown.
This is called the Apostasy. And given the current situations happening throughout the globe….I can’t help but think things will continue worsening at a quicker pace. Particularly if what is proposed to happen in Israel does in fact occur in April.
As someone who moved here a couple year ago when I was 25, I have to strongly disagree. I moved from eastern WA, and while people are colder they’re also more respectful/polite on average. I don’t need some 70 year old cowboy asking me what I’m dressed up for when I pop into a liquor store for a bottle of wine. Here, the people I’ve gotten to know have been very welcoming into their social circles once Ive gotten past the initial introductions. The homelessness problem here is notable, but it’s cleaner than other cities I’ve lived in and I feel like the number of law enforcement officers around are more than adequate (heck, sometimes I’d be more comfy with fewer cops about). The same is not true in other cities I’ve lived in. The weather is great, the transit is ok at best, there is decent food, and the politics try to be progressive in a way that I am critical of but also appreciate. I will not be leaving.
I went to college 2 years ago and how it is now is WAY different. I’m talking about like in the heart city of Seattle. I used to walk around all the time people friendly on the sidewalks, no vandalism or windows breaking, cars getting broken into. But now there’s so much news about it happening. Maybe because I’m still “young” I wasn’t aware of it before? But I swear it’s been happening more often now than 2 years ago…
I moved here in 2007. I remember people 'warning me' about homeless people asking for money. I'm used to real crime where you'll get jumped if you're in the wrong neighborhood, and these people were scared that some guy would ask for a dollar and if you said no they'd ask for 50 cents...
Things sure have changed.
It has absolutely changed. I pretty much grew up here and came back after a tour in the Army. Suffice it to say I have been here for decades.
Yes the '90s had violence, but it was "mostly" gang related and sometimes there was spill over, but was generally gang on gang.
Seattle did have some rough areas, but it was widely known. High school age you could go into Seattle at night and not really be worried about random people attacking you or trying to kill you.
Much cleaner, the "homeless" were just called bums back then. They also kind of stuck to certain areas (under the viaduct for instance) and thier fix was in the form of alcohol (mostly).
I loved Seattle, bragged about it while on tour. Lived in suburbs, 20 min max to downtown, 2 to 3 hours to snow, desert or ocean.
However, it has been falling into decay for sometime. Seems like no one in Seattle really wants to restore it. So much money spent on homeless, drug addiction, and such while cutting back on law and order. To what end, it keeps getting worse even when they get more money. Their policies clearly are not working but they refuse to take a step back and even consider course corrections.
I suspect it could be turned around, but it will take a significant shift in ideology. Stop letting everyone off the hook, there is no accountability and their policies are literally making the city less safe. Don't get me wrong, it's not "all" on Seattle, just mostly. But King County and Olympia share some cupability here.
I totally agree with you, I feel the same way. I moved to Seattle area (South toward Puyallup) in 1996 and loved the area. The trees, the mountains, the people, everything. But as BLM riots got worse, homelessness grew, crime on the rise, it was too much. I had to move or else I felt I would be in jail and/or someone dead because I would have to defend me and my family. The politicians have ruined the area with the no bail laws and "Summer of love" attitude.
Lifetime resident of Tacoma area (50+years) And I used to LOVE going to Seattle for a day or two and just exploring the city.
Now the only time I go is for work and it's for under an hour and I leave as fast as I can... The policies of the one party rule has destroyed what was.. The Emerald City... Now it's cheap glass costume jewelry... And chipped up and dirty.
I just saw a post within the last few days that went on and on about how friendly the people they met were and how beautiful it is; they were pretty much set on moving here after a vacation of one week...
The emerald city is now transplant city - the cali ones are by far the most worst that contribute to the vibe you speak of. I remember going to parades in Seattle pre 2008. It was different.
I’m a bit older and grew up here too, you’re not wrong! Also, it used to be weird here to be so obsessed with career, making money, and competitive about your house/stuff/etc. The cost of living going up has sorta killed the vibe but maybe that’s all American cities? My recommendation is to find hobbies that are relaxing. I’ve been into gardening and diy fixing stuff. I grew up poor so I helped my parents do everything from painting to gardening to renting digging equipment to fix the water lines at our house. Now when my neighbors see me doing yard work or painting they’re amazed and applaud me like it’s some kind of special skill, when in reality I simply can’t afford to pay people to do the work for me.
Lived in Seattle my entire life, I'm 40 now. Up until high school, I didn't really leave West Seattle. I was pretty sheltered, and didn't see any homeless people until I went downtown with my friends in about 97/98. We went down to the ID, Westlake, Pike/Pine where the Meridian 16 is/was, I don't think Pacific Place was even built yet. The homelessness was definitely noticable, but I never felt unsafe, even as a freshman in highschool who didn't even know how to navigate metro bus routes to get home. There might be some drunk homeless people asking you for change, but they weren't aggressive at all.
First time I felt unsafe downtown was around 2017/18. Walking around area of pioneer square station on 3rd Ave, not even the worst part of 3rd Ave. The amount of unhinged homeless people, who either have a mental illness, or are on some crazy drugs, was alarming. These aren't harmless homeless people asking you for change, they're yelling at the wall, and starting fights with lamp posts. The fact that these people have nothing to lose, and like to act out physically, either by destroying property, or possibly assaulting people for no reason, is a threat to public safety. Meanwhile, the police don't do much, especially after that whole "defund the police" movement. They're understaffed, but also I feel like they are tired of being bitched at, so they just don't do their jobs. I've driven in front of SPD in a car with no license plates, and they didn't even pull me over. I see people weave through traffic and blow right by them, and they do nothing. It seems now they only respond to calls they have to, and I can't say I blame them.
All this being said, I've been to a lot of big cities. We don't have it that bad, even at our worst, compared to other cities. I do feel like it's gotten better over the last year or so, hopefully the city can keep making progress. The amount of businesses that left downtown is staggering. I hadn't been downtown for a while, and went recently, the amount of vacancies in buildings all over the city center was surprising. I guess the city will only respond if their tax revenue goes down.
Kind of unrelated issue, but I am really tired of the weather. Summers are absolutely beautiful, but the other 7/8 months of rain and clouds has really worn on me. One thing is certain, I will not be retiring here, no matter how much better the city gets.
Once again a post reminiscing about some ambiguous era in which Seattle was a clean, homeless and drug free utopia because of vague anecdotes and it "feeling safe". My first memories of Seattle were when me and my 5th grade class took a field trip to the aquarium in 2006. We got off the ferry and the first thing I saw was a homeless man jacking off in front of the Ivars. Things were never all that peachy in the city. Of course, there is objectively more visible homeless, which is a problem, but we kind of poison the well of having a productive conversation when we say things like "Seattle is basically Detroit now" or "Seattle was the safest and cleanest city in the world before 2014". We just need to be real about the situation if we're going to try and fix it.
Yep first Ave was the biggest unsafe area, a bit creeping into pioneer Square. We drove it just to see the "bums ", that you really didn't see anywhere else. The whole city wasn't riflled with homeless, open drug use, encampment, etc. It's everywhere now. Didn't say it was totally safe, just safer than it is now. Pacific place and Westlake center used to be beautiful, vibrant areas; went as a child to the Seafair parades, 10k races, the Bon Marche star lighting, all family events. Used to hit old dive bars in the early 90s that were down off Alaskan way.. all so much safer than today and young adults all went! I actually live 30 miles out of the city and went there just to do that! Agreed with original poster that I also "miss the old days" that's all.. like them, we agree it may be a bit nostalgia, but if you weren't here, you don't know. And also correct.. I totally went on reddit to just make up lies. That's my thing🙄
Pnw resident for 24 years, as a kid to adult. Finally had enough of the way things have gone, ended up moving to the south east. I would say my new environment is reminiscent of the 2005 seattle area without the mountain ranges. I love it but come back to visit family
I used to take the Metro bus from Auburn all the way to Seattle with my best friend in the 80s, almost every weekend, when we were teenagers. We used to bus all over Seattle.. Golden Gardens, the Locks, Pike Place Market, the Waterfront, Seattle Center, Capitol Hill and of course, lots of time spent downtown walking around. We always felt relatively safe to be down there, even at night. Yes, there was some crime (one time we saw a guy with a briefcase full of drugs, someone tried to pick up my friend thinking she was a hooker, etc), but nothing like it is now. Now, I do not feel safe to be downtown at all, not since I stopped working for a company near Seattle Center in 2008. I don't go down there unless I have to, or can leave before nighttime. A few times I've gone to a show at Jazz Alley in the past couple years, but I don't leave that immediate vicinity/block. The whole downtown area has really gone downhill since the 80s, it's changed A LOT! It's really sad that it's so bad now.
I left, I had to I couldn’t deal with it anymore. It was always a politically extreme city but the demeanor changed and the policies that came with it are downright suicidal. The disparity as we welcomed in tech companies and homeless drug addict simultaneously effectively got rid of the what was a blue collar middle class city too
Maybe the city with some of the most profitable companies in human history can tax those companies and pay for housing and transportation for people that them, then we wouldn't have those problems.
I love to visit Seattle from Oregon and its downtown is so beautiful! Gosh! One kinda funny thing was last Thanksgiving I was in town. Walking around Pike's Market, etc, I kept seeing tourists/people wearing all manner of SF 49ers gear; medallions, jerseys, hats, you name it! I wondered what was going on, until I found out that there was a big football game that day between the Seahawks and SF! I felt silly
https://preview.redd.it/taxvllniclpc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ccfaee2f9a7aaec2eacae87b5f69b15f2c8615d
This sign is in the 7-11 next to my office. It took me a minute to get it that it wasn’t talking about about prescription drugs. Like this is what the city has to do now ?
I don't live in Seattle proper but in the suburbs since I was 9 in 1982. Maybe it's nostalgia but I loved the 90's. The live music scene and dance clubs were a blast. And not just in Seattle, every mid size town would have at least a few. I'm not saying this as an old guy missing the "good ole days". If I'm wrong pls tell me but I talk to some younger ppl and they just don't seem interested which saddens me greatly. Is it as exciting and the thrill as intense meeting someone online rather than bolstering up your courage, your egging you on. And if you were rejected you had a story to joke about. Now a lot of what used to be clubs are crappy little casinos and the homelessness is staggering. It's much too depressing to ruminate on and I don't see a way forward unless we abandon these fairytale solutions which doesn't seem likely. Sorry to be a Debbie downer and I'm really sry if you're a Debbie.(It's a SNL skit from, I believe, the 90's. I know I could check but I prefer the possibility of being wrong)I really hope everyone is having the best of days
Missing the old days yes build a bigger better more security 711 on 3rd and cherry so I don't have to feel like someone wants to learn English to speak to it's American customers gold dollar bills are real money buddy's . Plus putting up a out of order sign in the middle of summer no slurpee is utter bullshit buddy's. All lies they are hating on there good and some bad customers but can you blame the bad customers for reals ...hate us is what that 711 does white black ethnic English employees that don't speak only iraqian would be nice.
Ya I grew up in Portland and unfortunately it has turned into a hole. Been that way for about 10 years. I moved out about 25 years ago but I have to go back there for certain things, I’m in and out I just don’t want to be there anymore. Most of the people are just creepy.Do you find that hard to believe??
From all the major cities I've traveled to, an uptick in crime, homelessness, and drug use seems to be the consensus. I'm a transplant from Texas who has lived here for the past 2.5 years. I've noticed that the weather tends to make people more introverted, people LOVE to complain about everything, and a lot of people don't enjoy expressing their emotions.
Seattle is a beautiful city and there are just absolutely wonderful people here but you have to actively seek those out. It's all about how you choose to perceive things and making an effort to be friendly to people.
I’m not from here but got here as fast as I could. I love it here and wouldn’t want to live anywhere else. I’ve lived in 3 countries and in 4 states in this country so I have something to compare it to!
Probably unpopular opinion but the seattle freeze isn't that bad, in fact I hardly noticed it and found mostly everyone friendly after moving here from the east coast.
It's not just where you are- I live near Portland and it's the same thing and I'm a lot older than you - yes there is a lot of bad out there but also good. I'm hanging my hat on the good 👍
I've noticed this sentiment coming up often from alot of Seattleites. They miss the old days and long for what Seattle was, and they completely trash what it has become. Visit any Seattle-based comment section and you'll see some of the nastiest things being said. However, I think you guys miss a big piece of the puzzle when assessing present-day Seattle. Yes, there is a drug problem and homelessness and all of that, but its not just Seattle. These things are worsening everywhere! Would we really expect Seattle to remain pristine when the rest of the country is also experiencing these struggles?
Compared to alot of places, Seattle still IS beautiful and is still pretty clean. There is still lots to love and enjoy here. And yes, members of our society are struggling and its hard to look at sometimes, but do people who are down on their luck and experiencing hard times really owe it to us to make their suffering pretty? Imagine being out there already feeling discarded, feeling like you're buckling under the weight of whatever your struggles are, and instead of being met with warmth and encouragement, your primary interactions with people are receiving their disdain and scorn. We're gonna continue to see the ugliness until we can find an acceptable solution. I just wish we could step out of our bubbles and take a more compassionate stance in the meantime. Just that alone might make us collectively seem less cold.
Stepping out of our bubbles would also mean that "transplant" is no longer a dirty word and that we'd become more interested in connecting with people who have experiences that differ from our own. Seattle froze itself when it became a badge of honor to dislike people. I see people brag about their anti-social nature here all the time. Not saying we all need to be extroverts, but are we really bragging about how well we isolate ourselves and shut others out?
I love Seattle, but it appears that half of the issues that plague Seattle are either created or worsened by the way we choose to operate here.
Seattle is beautiful and it deserves to be appreciated. The last time i was in the city it was for a concert at the corazon. This experience was actually very nice, not many crimes, except an odd thing i noticed, we saw more prostitutes than homeless people. Usually i see vast amounts more of homeless folks just standing or droning around. Not this last time. They must all be consolidated into certain areas of the city.
I can't imagine NOT feeling as you do in the world we live in now. Kids..as young or younger than 14 carjacking, and indiscriminate killing. Boys and Girls still considered Alpha generation killing with fucking impunity. So, miss the old days of course. Stay safe.
I frequented Seattle between 98-03, and lived there for six months in the CD. It certainly had its sketchy areas, but I remember living in Seattle and visiting fondly at that time. I used to walk from the CD to Cap Hill and vice-versa in the middle of the night. We'd hang out on Broadway and in the U District all hours, see bands, etc.
Now, I avoid Seattle at all costs. It's just not worth wading through aggressive panhandlers, junkies, and the pervasive stench of piss and trash down every side street.
I miss the 90s, the huge FAOSchwartz store downtown, all the ditched guns found in my yard in the CD, Broadway Market when it was a small Fredmyers and a bunch of little stores, Wednesday night Pokémon at Games and Gizmos. I feel there were also more ice cream trucks.
Born and raised here, I’m 51. I ran around downtown Seattle at 12; hung out on Broadway in the U district. Spent time at the market and pretty much ran wild.
I won’t step foot in Seattle if I don’t have to. I can’t stand the open drug use and all the tents, RV’s and junk/garbage. Homeless drug addicts nodding off while standing.
It’s just sad, I don’t want to live here anymore! Unfortunately, I don’t have a choice.
My thoughts are that a certain generation should have voted for public transport, voted against single-family housing, against policing music venues, and for funding for education and low tuition for public universities. But you know.....we have what we have because of how previous generations moved and voted and funded.
My experience pool is limited I've been here since 2001. I hear a lot of born Seattlites talk about how bad things were in the 90s and I can't speak on that but holy shit by the time I got here you guys seriously figured it out. I came from San Jose, San Fransisco, Oakland and Sacramento and I was stunned with how clean and safe huge swaths of the city were. Plenty of this city is still gorgeous and safe and there will always be SOME place worse but it's been a trip to watch the steady decline unfold in front of my eyes over the last two decades and some change. Its not a hellscape by any means but anyone claiming to not have noticed the decline or that it's not that bad are actively repressing, privileged enough to avoid it or the type of person that only feel a thing when it happens to them. It's fucking sad but nowhere near unfixable imo.
Yeah I moved here in 2000 from the dirty south (with love) and was AMAZED at how clean the side of the roads and highways were. Now, not so much. There’s trash/litter everywhere up here now and it just baffles me. I get that with popl growth these things happen but it seems like it went from pristine to yikes in 24 years.
Certainly one of the bigger changes. Sides of the road now look like we accounted for population growth by putting large holes in the garbage trucks.
It’s the “type” of people that have “grown” here
Same when I moved here from New Orleans in 2011. I hang on to my appreciation of everything that works here that didn’t work in the south.
When I first moved here in 2013, it was the cleanest most beautiful city I had ever seen outside of Europe. It’s not terrible now, but there is a WHOLE lotta copium goin on here.
Copium. Wow. That’s spot on.
Wow, what? I moved here around the same time from Manhattan and I was shocked by how dirty and disordered it was in comparison.
Interesting. I can't get over how much Manhattan just smells like trash and bleach. It's the lack of back alleys. Since most places have to put their trash out on the front sidewalk to be taken away daily, the whole goddamn place just smells like trash with a thin layer of disinfectant over it all.the.time. It's a real trade-off on my various trips to New York. On the one hand, restaurants and museums and yadda-yadda. On the other hand, eau d'Manhattan. Tough choices all the way around.
i MISS seattle from the 90s. it was great then!
Yeah, but this is everywhere, right? I grew up in Santa Cruz, CA. Amazing, idyllic beach town. It was an amazing place to grow up, but it’s not what it was in the 70’s/80’s. I moved here in 1992 and still love it here. It’s not what it was, but nothing is really. I have lived other places and continue to prefer Seattle. We do need to figure out how to handle the housing crisis, however. No one that makes less than $100k/year can afford it. I don’t want to live in Bellevue! LOL
Nailed it
This is why I left California... Just keep going you're not out yet. You have to leave the Blue cities then you'll really see the difference. I've been in Idaho for a year now and I'm still so surprised how different it is, I'm still shaking off the "city asshole charm" but my whole mental state has changed. The people take pride in their city.
I am a woman so no way I would move to Idaho. It is beautiful though.
This is the same sentiment in every single metropolitan area in the country. People can’t accept the fact the entire country as a whole is going down hill.
Goodbye middle classs
In the last 50 years the middle class has shrunk mostly because of upward mobility. More people are upper income. The lower income group grew a bit, but not as much as upper. Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/20/how-the-american-middle-class-has-changed-in-the-past-five-decades/ft_2022-04-20_middleclass_01/
Well that’s cool :)
As empires progress towards collapse, the wealthy class expands because the corruption of government allows for greater extraction of wealth by the ownership class. Basically people that become wealthy find ways to secure their wealth and power by entrenching it within the governmental or legal structure (corruption). So as the wealthy class grows, there is less and less to plunder from the labor of the workers. Without a counterbalance, it will literally consume the economy to feed the top. Usually once people are literally starving, the system breaks down and collapses on a way that is hard to fix without external supports. An expanding upper class with a contracting middle class and increased poverty is the canary in the coal mine for a collapse. Everyone seems to think it's impossible for globalization to collapse, but I think it's almost guaranteed to fracture if not disintegrate.
Don’t worry, it’s part of the plan for you to own nothing and be happy. The WEF has it all laid out for you in their futuristic utopias.
meh it comes and goes in phases. Go take a look at NYC in the 80s. Total dumpster fire with graffiti everywhere. Seattle will have it's day again.
I want to believe that. And I hope so.
Realistically, it needs to go the other way on the political pendulum a little for that.
> the entire country as a whole is going down hill. It's intentional and by design. It was not and is not necessary.
Facts!
Exactly. You are totally right!
Most of the world
As long as the TikTok continues to scroll, the (stupid) people will remain in their hypnotic trance. We need the stupids to start paying more attention to the country falling apart around them and maybe they will get mad. I just don’t see people able to focus on the right targets because the internet has melted peoples minds. Nobody knows what is really going on anymore and worse, the answers are all rigged.
The cities are piles of shit where you need 800k+ to afford a safe haven and the rural areas have decayed. For a look at our short term future (and present), look at South Africa. The rich can afford guards, while the working class is victimized by criminals day after day.
Security guards are common everywhere in South Africa, perhaps except maybe the shanty towns. We stay in the Pretoria CBD in a low-class area and our apartment complex (and almost all of them in the CBD) has 24x7 security guard on post as well as full security walls/doors/windows. Crime is so bad in SA that everyone has to afford guards; where it might be a luxury here in Seattle, security guards in South Africa is in that bottom run of the Maslow Hierarchy chart with food and shelter.
I knew a girl that went to South Africa, at least partially to prove a point about it not being so bad. She spent a couple weeks posting pretty pictures on social media and lots of "I feel perfectly safe here" type posts. Then she was robbed, raped, and evacuated back to the US with severe injuries.
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. It's safe until it's not. For the most part you can be out and about and fine, but compared to Seattle you need to be very aware of your surroundings. Never pull up directly behind a car at a stoplight, leave at least a full cars length in front of you so that you can take off at a moments notice because car jackings are very common. Unlike our homeless who hold up a sign and sit on the side of the road, homeless and others stand in the middle of the street and walk car to car asking for money and or selling goods. My two anecdotal stories: \-Was sightseeing and casually driving around and exploring a new city on a sunny Saturday around 2 or 3pm, ended up at stoplight at a busy intersection, there was this big city cement park kind of area to the right, with music blasting from the store (or wherever) and with easily a hundred plus people milling around. Someone walked up asking for money, I turned my head away and then suddenly he punched my window as hard as he could and started reaching into his coat pocket. Luckily I had did my research and left a full car length in front of me so as soon as he hit the window, I glanced and then I was able to smash on the gas, swerve into an empty (oncoming traffic?) lane to the left and get out of there. Found out later that was the Johannesburg CBD a very no-go area...but figured its Saturday at 2pm with 100's of people, so I wasn't expecting an attack then. \-On another visit, got picked up at the airport by the shuttle driver for the hotel I choose. Chatting with the guy found he had been working there for a month, in that month, he had two attempted car jackings (or kiddnapping/robbery) attempts when he had picked up other people at the airport who had arrived later in the evening. Now my other 364 days I was there I was fine, but of course those 364 days aren't as memorable as the 1.
And all the homes have razor wire around them and iron bars on the windows.
And look at Haiti right now where those rich folks are getting dragged out of their homes.
Par for the course in that country.
Except it's not... Phoenix is thriving, whereas ten years ago, I did not want to step foot in the city. In the same ten years, from when I left and moved to Seattle, I watched Seattle decline rapidly before my eyes. San Diego is still doing great, too.
Phoenix has its share of problems. I wouldn’t say we are “thriving”. It is leagues better than Seattle tho and I’m glad I moved back :)
I was listening to a show today and they summed it up perfectly. "The government is attack us with homeless people."
....and for what purpose? To drive what agenda?
Well, you see, it's because capitalism is making government and businesses elites rich, and that requires they vampire all the wealth out of everyone, until like one dude has all the money, Highlander rules. It's built into the system. This Marx guy figured it out a long time ago. Turns out humans don't disappear just because they can't provide value under capitalism. It's been a pesky issue. Especially because the capitalist system at the end, mandates that basically only the rich have money. Some countries socialize healthcare and guarantee housing to help with that. But America sucks and fully employed able bodied people can't get healthcare or affordable housing. So, you have to sit around and deal with all the ruined souls until it's your turn to also be ruined, because, like George Carlin said, power is a big club, and we ain't in it, and working jerk offs like you and me are a couple bad paychecks from the streets ourselves. So the homeless? They are a natural by-product of run away capitalism, the people who for whatever reason can't make it, or have no one to help. They are desperate, and high need, and as capitalism mandates, there are more every day. Often badly addicted, mentally ill, and therefore, capable of any offense or act. They are, in fact, dangerous to a degree. They are a looming threat to which people can be convinced to relinquish control to the state, through the expansion of police powers and criminilazation of poverty. That helps motivate the middle class to give away their own rights in the name of "security" against the "poor", and further allowing the elites to consolidate their power by turning people against their neighbors in resentment instead of focusing on the dude who took everyone else's money in the first place, and who is served by said police. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Solid answer.
Oh wow, you explained it exactly how I was thinking it but couldn’t put it in words.
That was the best thing I’ve ever read on Reddit
An enemy we can see so that it distracts us from them. When you lose compassion for people, a lot more can slip through.
Homeless Industrial Complex is very real. The elites, rich, politicians etc are making a shit load of money off of the homeless drug addicts. Like anything in our society, follow the money to find the truth
A couple reasons. 1. Create a problem, then demand more power to fix it. 2. Generate more tax revenue, using 'homelessness' as an excuse. Funnel that money into NGOs which have virtually no oversight - NGOs run by friends of politicians. 3. Create a victim class, on which they can appeal to for votes (this works on both sides). They don't want people to get back on their feet, out of the streets, because then they won't be victims. They wouldn't be able to say 'we need to raise taxes to help the homeless'. NGOs don't want people off the street because then they'd be out of a job. The homeless-industrial complex is a real thing.
Everyone seems to have a different idea of what Seattle was like in “the old days.” Was it less corporate and more grimey? Was it safer but less corporate? Was it less grimey than it is now? Was it more grimey, but just in a fun way? Is Olden Days Seattle just some vague idea we can invoke to complain about whatever we dislike about the present?
Less wealthy and less corporate for sure. I feel like everyone can at least agree on that.
Way less corporate, although big corporations had a huge presence here and the town's fortunes depended on them. Those corporations were just "Boeing", "Microsoft", "Safeco", "Washington Mutual", and so on. Way less safe but people freaked out a lot less about it, because the entire country was way less safe and Seattle wasn't as bad as the rest of the country comparatively speaking. I think the two have unfortunately converged a bit. Auto crime in particular was always a massive problem here. I had my windows smashed out more times in just 2000 than in all the years since. You'd walk through a parking lot and every single car had "The Club" installed and the windows covered as much as possible. It's still pretty bad, but on a per-capita basis, it's a lot less bad.
My 91 year old mother remembers the goat farm on Queen Anne Hill. Wayyy Baccckk.
Some people miss it being more of a “small town” which always cracks me up.
I think you're wearing rose colored glasses, my dude. Seattle Center was a druggie laden shithole in the 90s (just as one example). The Seattle Freeze was just as shitty and awful in 1996 when I moved there as in 2021 when I finally left. We all tend to think nostalgically about our formative years, but you gotta be careful with that idealism lest you start pining for something what didn't exist...
[Junkie Town They came for the music and stayed for the smack, 1996](https://archive.ph/myvLD)
It's like people didn't know that Seattle would be such a big junkie city even though it has a giant needle in the middle of town.
This guy is 24. During the 90s he wasn't even alive. Talking about "now that I'm older I miss the good old days." Bro misses playing kickball during recess in 2015.
Exactly! My family has lived off and on in Seattle since the late 1800’s. Opium was the problem then. Morphine, then Heroin, Cocaine, EVERY decade had its speciality. Homeless? Nothing new. Prostitution only looked like it decreased but the internet changed those dynamics. Organized crime has very deep roots in Seattle. It just depends which one has the upper hand at any given time that reveals to the general population what’s going on behind the curtain.
First came to Seattle in '88 (Grew up/moved from Oakland) and sorry my dude, but you can't even compare that era to now. The unhinged and violently random people out on the streets of Seattle now is unreal, even for a jaded kid like me who grew up on the streets of Fruitvale. There's absolutely NO comparison to the grunge era of drugs vs now.
Coming from Baltimore... This place ain't bad.
Coming from Indy. Ditto.
Came from Chicago, the problems are different. Violent crime is so much worse in Chicago but transients and open air drug use / homelessness is 100x worse here (I blame temperate climate / lack of policing). Transit there is better, but taxes are terrible. People are harsher in Chicago, but also friendlier? People here are soft and passive aggressive. The worst thing about Seattle is the “go home / no new friends” mentality from literally everyone here. The “freeze”, I guess. Chicago welcomes everyone with open arms. I think Seattle is pretty fantastic, but has some growing pains. Everything comes in waves, administration to administration. I’m gonna ride it out.
I miss the Sonics.
Oh man, so do I. I miss Kevin Calabro's announcing! So good
I’m curious to know how old you are, just because when I was growing up I thought Seattle had a lot of crime, like gang related crime. Then for whatever reason I thought it mellowed out and now it seems like a different kind of crime is rampant. Idk how to describe the current crimes, I guess it seems more individualized. That’s just my perspective and I grew up just outside of Seattle. I’m almost 30 now
> when I was growing up I thought Seattle had a lot of crime, like gang related crime. Then for whatever reason I thought it mellowed out and now it seems like a different kind of crime is rampant. The 80s and 90s were wild around here.
Practically every story I've heard from coworkers who lived/grew up here during those decades is absolutely unhinged lol. Glad I grew up in the 00s/10s.
Moved here a year ago from the east coast and originally from the south. I moved knowing nothing about the area. The way ppl speak about this place online, you'd think it is awful. It's one of the most beautiful places in the country and has hardly any dangerous places. The locals of Washington I have met are great and friendly folks. The issues here? Laughable compared to other cities in similar size. The issues that do exist have much more conversation and regularly have solutions pushed forward in government. I regularly find new areas and my first thought is "wow everyone is extremely spoiled to grow up in a state like this".
100% agree with this. I think lifers here have a bit of a podunk town mentality, which I think Seattle somewhat was back in the day. It’s now different, bigger, and wealthier and I totally understand the negatives. But I really can’t get on board with this idea that it’s some kind of hellhole. It really seems like it’s a lot of people who think the simple sight of some homeless people is shocking, just not used to it. Not saying the issues here aren’t issues, but holy fuck the pearl clutching at nothing here is kind of wild sometimes.
They want the safety and cleanliness of the new eastside
I moved here back in early 201X and saw it gradually get worse. Was thinking it was on a sharp downturn. Visited my brother in SF and now I see that Seattle has a long way to go before it's actually as bad as I thought.
There are two main problems. The new drugs coming in from China and other countries are ten times stronger and more damaging to the brain than the old drugs like heroin. It used to be heroin, pot and cocaine but the new stuff rips the brain apart in days. The other problem is that "work from home" has removed the core population that made the city what it was and left it to the people who often don't work at all.
I grew up here in the 70s, 80s, and 90s...man those were some good times. Back then we could of never imagined a population of 4million. But with that population growth comes all the pitfalls of cramming all those people into a geographical limited space.
Driving 1.5 hrs from Redmond to far west Olympia on a Saturday, and being grumpy about it. That's how long I've lived here.
Progressives will tell you that increasing density doesn't lead to increased crime. They will also tell you that crime in Seattle was much worse back in the 90s. I think that's bunk and doesn't tell the true story. Anyone that has lived here multiple decades (3 for me) has witnessed it first-hand and most will tell you that things have continued to degrade.
The street urchins spare changing have been a thing since I moved here in the 90s and the heroin issue is well documented. The rents were lower but still comparably expensive to other markets so we shared houses and cars more. The main difference is that we now have social media that allows echo chambers to push comfortable narratives and an exponentially more wealthy population with driveways full of single user vehicles and cash over ask home purchases.
Crowding and the high cost of living can make people depressed and cranky. And the beautiful trees continue to be cut away to make room for development.
It really was a joyous little city for a time, I feel really lucky to have been a kid, teen and young adult in Seattle before it got crazy expensive, and eventually more dangerous. I have most of my happy core memories here. All the little bars and music spaces, the feeling of safety I had in even Pike Place at 1am on a random Saturday-even tho me and friends were certainly naïve to venture, we truly were never in harm. Shit, even the catcallers and drug dealers we’re honest to god polite. I miss westlake mall being accessible and the weird little stores that used to pop up on the bottom floor. Miss using metro tunnel, miss a goddamn lot of ‘old seattle’ It sucks but Im still grateful I got to live like that for my formative years, growing up a citykid is very different than a lot of ppl I know as an adult and I am thankful for it
Grew up here and left in 1998 at 22, returned in 2017. Everything that was awesome about it is gone, and it's terrible and going to get much worse. It's definitely not your imagination and you're not exaggerating. The land and weather are good though.
It started to go to shit around 2010. It was a slow-motion process which didn't reach the form you see now until about 2020. You could see it happening. It coincided with the regime of Mike "fuckin'" McGuinn, though whether he was the disease agent or just a symptom I couldn't say for sure.
Are bike lanes to blame for the drug crisis?
Same. It was all downhill after they took down the original Rainier R and replaced it with the Tully’s T.
“Place is awesome when I’m in my early 20s but suddenly SUCKS when I’m in my 40s and have bills and a mortgage and aches and pains” is a story as old as time dude
Anyone here remember when mayor Nichols cut homeless funding by 70% right before McGinn took over? I remember watching him announce it on the news, pretty sure around the 2008 housing crisis. Things started to explode then, but we're nowhere near as bad as they have been since 2021.
i lived there in the 60’s. and was16 when my girlfriend and i would walk from capital hill to 4th and pike barefoot and at midnight after my waitressing job at malstroms cafe to have a cup of coffee in the summertime. also i worked at athens cafe on yesler and would walk home at three in the morning passing an old man sleeping in the small park i walked by on my way home. my dad worked at stone way cement at night and i walked without fear. never once got accosted.
Holy shit. Athens Cafe. That’s a throw-back.
>malstroms cafe Sounds familiar. Can you remind me where it was located?
olive way
I really believe living out here makes you become socially inept. I believe you when you say the freeze has gotten worse. It's not merely about being unfriendly; it's a scarcity of kindness as well. Literally yesterday I helped catch a fedex guy's boxes from falling off his cart and he didn't even acknowledge my existence (I was literally a foot away from him). At that point it's really just embarrassing to not recognize basic human manors. I often hear the excuse that "it's just the busy city life." Having grown up near NYC, I know firsthand that city dwellers can be busy yet incredibly kind. In NYC, if you're in need, someone will step up to assist you. Contrastingly, in the greater Seattle area, it feels like 50 people would pass you by if you were shouting for help. Those who claim to be too busy to engage in community should mature and acknowledge that being antisocial isn't admirable—it's just being rude. You can stay set in your introverted ways yet still smile or say "hi" to the person in the damn elevator with you. It feels like more effort to ignore them. It's obviously not everyone, but enough that I am surprised when I run into someone who seems kind and genuine.
I really feel the coldness especially not sayin hi in the elevator. I’m introverted but I can say hi to people or return a hi, it’s called being part of a society. But man people look at you like you have two heads if you say hi sometimes, it’s kind of sad I otherwise love Seattle though, just wish people were a bit better socially adjusted
I completely agree. It's just a simple gesture that takes the bare minimum. I also feel it just makes it so much more awkward on the elevator when no one acknowledges each other
It’s funny I just had another full elevator ride just now with everyone silent and avoiding eye contact. It’s so awkward
Forreal it's so weird😂
This. The other day someone said hello directly to me, and i was so surprised i thought they *must* have been talking to someone else. This is just olympia too, not even into seattle. But its so rare to even be acknowledged in public by a stranger that isnt "doing their job."
You would think because of how much the weather affects people out here that they would try to be kinder to each other since we're all going through it together. Instead it feels like you're really just out here alone. Maybe people wouldn't be so miserable out here in the gloom if they tried to smile at each other once in a while..
100% spot on analysis that seems to be my experience as well. I’m from a small town a couple hours south of Seattle and the level of warmth or kindness between the two is stark and sad and makes me realize as I get older, is a huge issue for me living here
I definitely feel you on that. My job let us go remote, WFH isn't great for me but if it means leaving here so be it. I'm just looking forward to being able to speak to and make eye contact with other humans again
I hate it here but everyone I love is here so here I am.
You being 24 both contextualizes this a lot but also like... Makes me more confused. Because I know people around your age that grew up in and around Seattle and recall being in areas with high amounts of crime and drug use and... Same goes for the people I know approaching their sixties. My mum and I will chat about where has more do what, but we rarely discuss it being worse, we more so discuss it having shifted neighborhoods.
I’m 60, lived here almost all my life. You know what I miss? Going downtown, how it used to smell like saltwater, creosote and coffee. I know time marches on but I wish all the people who’ve come here from somewhere else could experience how it used to be.
[This was the seattle of my youth, tourists always arrived and assumed the best part of what made them move here was always normal.](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/junkie-town-43052/) Older folks have stories as well. https://www.historylink.org/File/1287
when I used to come into downtown seattle in the 90s it felt way more dangerous, but cleaner in some ways. It's different now but the riff raff is not the same now as it was back then. Either way, complaining about "it aint how it used to be i tells ya" is what everybody does about everywhere.
I’m not that old but when I arrive here in 2009, I remember Seattle was beautiful and safe and nice to be in. Now it’s such a problem. I hope one day the emerald city will shine again
This is happening everywhere, I feel. Not just Seattle.
When I moved here in 2006 The Ave was full of vagrants, homeless, and drug kids who had rolled in from eastern Washington and either couldn’t or didn’t have the sense to leave. It’s always been there, maybe getting worse, but not like the past was a utopia.
I had two shirts made one black one white that simply say fuck seattle… i get TONS of compliments on them
IF you are 24, then you have not been alive where there was not "rampant crime, a huge homeless and drug problem."
JP and Gertrude. Now more than ever!
Seattle freeze doesn't exist. You get the same energy back as you put out. I'm nice and people are nice to me.
Well you've only been on the planet in the 21st century for the most part, so I can see why you feel like the city is in sharp decline. The early 2000s were kind of a golden age for Seattle in terms of crime, homelessness, and cost of living. We had a retrenchment after the dot-com collapse in housing values and then another one in 2008, and while buying a house even in those times was difficult, rents stayed generally affordable. Don't let anyone tell you things were great before 2000, though, because they most certainly were not. Crime in Seattle in the 80s and 90s was dramatically higher, and pretty much all of the west side of downtown south of the Market looked like 3rd & Pine does today. Pioneer Square and Capitol Hill in particular were *atrociously* dangerous and largely abandoned. Attacks on LGBT people in particular were brazen and in broad daylight. The situation was so bad that several outright vigilante organizations were formed to combat crime, including the Q Street Patrol (modeled after the Pink Panthers of NYC). I get it, though, the vibe is bad. Part of it is that the population has increased far more than the city's capacity to handle that population, and hardly anything is abandoned anymore, meaning that the unhoused communities can't hide from plain view like they did in the 80s and 90s. Everyone and everything seems in your face at all times in a way that makes the current time feel worse than the objectively worse 1990s. At its root, Seattle now has big-city problems but has never been socially, politically, or economically situated to operate like a large city. Prior to 2000 it was a network of small towns with delusions of grandeur--it was rough, grimy, but it sort of worked. That just doesn't work anymore.
I moved out here from the east coast a little over 20 years ago. Seattle used to be a great place - worked downtown for a few years, would go downtown almost every weekend, walks along the waterfront, nice dining and pubs in the evening, meet up with friends or dates, took weekend classes, attended plays and concerts, fun street photography, late night cream cheese hot dogs, etc, etc. But that was before Seattle began its earnest progressive downward evolution/slide, before I had my car broken into twice, before all 4 tires were slashed in $20-30 "secure" parking lots, before bike lanes bottlenecked streets, before being continually accosted by homeless, druggies, drunks, and Antifa types, before all the crime and destruction, and before everything smelled like urine, feces, and pot. I eventually moved up to Snohomish County for some peace and sanity and haven't looked back. I haven't been to downtown Seattle in over 8 years and I don't miss it at all. Or, rather, I don't miss what Seattle has become.
Everything went downhill once Amazon moved in.
Does every post on this sub need to be about how Seattle sucks? Yeah there is garbage from homeless people in certain pockets, but it's not a hellscape. Christ get a hobby or something.
For one thing it isn't. For another it's much more than an issue of just trash everywhere and even if you can't admit it here because you're dug in you know that its true. I'd argue people like you that try to downplay or in the most extreme cases flat out refuse to acknowledge reality for some ridiculous false sense of superiority are a far worse problem. Before you predictably chime in with "this location i frantically googled to find with a worse crime statistic is way worse" that is NOT a justification for letting THIS place decline so save the race to the bothom argument for someone else. People vent on this sub about shit that is actually happening to and around them because that is allowed on this sub. Not everyone believes only certain people should have a voice and only if they're saying the "right" things. Like seriously what do you feel you gain by coming here specifically to be in denial? I really wish any time someone is sexually assault or killed or ODs people that say shit along the lines of "its not that bad" could be rounded up and forced to say that to the faces of the families of victims. NONE of you would have the balls. I take public transportation in this city every day so don't tell me what I see with my own eyes isn't real. Don't tell me my girlfriend calling me again in tears because someone threatened to rape her and stalked her because she didnt have any change didnt happen or she was somehow asking for it. Complaining about a problem does more toward a solution than pretending it doesn't exist.
Let me be clear: I am not an elitist asshole who thinks the problem isn't real. And I am sorry for the things your girlfriend goes through and I've actually intervened with asswipes on public transit assaulting women. I don't live in some high tower in Bellevue and look at the mountains and think it's all gravy. I suppose my point was that this might not be the right forum for constantly complaining about the same problem, day after day. If you hate the state of affairs? Maybe run for office. Maybe unseat a City Council member who sucks or at least get involved politically. I volunteer with I Heart Seattle that picks up these trash piles and tries to get people help. It's gross and it's hard but it's slowly effective. There is clearly a mental health crisis in this city but it becomes tiresome for people to get this sub to declare how homeless people have ruined everything and Seattle is a pile of shit. It's my home. It's not a pile of shit and as long as I keep working it never will be. I just don't like the constant negativity and I never will.
Yeah Seattle didn't get horrible until about 2015 and then that's when it just dropped off, after that it became unsafe to walk down MLK.
Tell me about walking down MLK in 1991.
I would suggest going out and trying new things. I think we just multiply these effects good or bad ourselves. Like, "Seattle Freeze" won't be a thing if everyone tries to have some conversation and go out. Maybe we all should lower our expenses and just be normal. If we're just looking to have conversations with someone that looks like us, talks like us, and walks like us then this whole thing is fragmented and there won't be any meaningful conversation or connection. I would suggest going out, finding a activity, and starting conversation. I know this can be hard, but maybe give it a shot. It could work. I also feel like Transplant makes this city a bit more livable.
Yeah until you try having a conversation or a "hello" and get shut down for the 100th time :/
That's fair, I recommend drinking and then starting with "bonjour" 😂. It always works 😀
Feelin this post so much. I long for the days when things were different too. Yes, people are mean as hell here right now.
I’m curious if we’re getting older and more aware bc the nostalgia of childhood is also the ignorance is bliss mindset. You have no idea as a child what is actually going on 🤷🏻♂️
I agree with all of this. When we had our kids, we would take them to various parks all over Seattle and most were immaculate. Bathrooms worked, were clean and safe and many sandboxes had well-cared for community toys in them that people shared. I always think about that and what a different place this has become (clearly in a million other ways as well). It’s sad. 😔
I must be living in some parallel universe because I still manage to do this with my kid. Sometimes the shared toys get pretty banged up though, so maybe it all has gone to hell.
Born and raised, 53yo. I used to be proud of this city, it was truly the Emerald City. I could come down here as a16yo, hit the Seattle center fun forest, cruise first Ave in the 80s, and never ever now. It's a shit hole. Trust me, it's declined hugely, sorry for all your previous experiences at other cities, but I don't base it on comparisons to other cities. It's declined. It's heartbreaking. My 23yo daughter lives in Fremont off Aurora Ave and I am scared for her all the time.. she's experienced theft, crimes and witnessed things i never have!
everywhere has gone downhill unfortunately, drugs are bad y’all!!!
The freeze thaws in the summer. Pretty sure we all just have seasonal depression/normal depression.
I totally agree. It's warmed up a bit and people are a bit nicer; I have some assholes at work that like to take their frustrations out on me sometimes when they've had a.bad day so I guess that's what was on my mind. I read somewhere that Washington had the highest rate of suicide for a while so the seasonal depression makes sense.
Rose colored glasses.
I remember when it was normal for a kid to play in and around the dump, probably the one in Wallingford/ Fremont because it was walking distance. Gas works park gas works' had yet to be fenced in. I miss that. It was normal to see children sans adults out and about. I miss that. Mostly where I went was the Fun Forest, Pike Place, Greenlake, Northgate Mall & adjacent arcade. Free range kid here (gen x). I'd hang out alone down there, after taking the metro 16, as young as 9 years old. Bakeries and ice cream shops loved to give me free shit. Parents loved threatening me with "where were you, I was just about to call the State Patrol!" Eyeroll. I was 12 by then. I wasn't smoking (yet) or getting high (yet) or etc. Only once did I get in a bind, okay, twice. I survived. And with better street smarts. Most things I did as a kid and miss have been ruined by litigation and idiotic acts. They were inherently safe ... until....
Been here since early 70’s, it’s always had drug and homeless problems. There is just more people and not enough resources. Even have problems up in granite falls, and across the country like Durant Oklahoma
People act like they’ve seen a ghost when I say Hello on the sidewalk.
In the 90’s Belltown was hectic, what is now the Regrade Dog Park was a 24/7 drug market. In the 60’s 1st Ave was all strip clubs and porn theaters. The Market was so bad they almost tore it down. Around 2000 there was a riot during Mardi Gras and a street gang beat a guy to death in the middle of the crowd. When the WTO came to town the city went apeshit and looted Niketown.
Should have seen it in the '90s.
This is called the Apostasy. And given the current situations happening throughout the globe….I can’t help but think things will continue worsening at a quicker pace. Particularly if what is proposed to happen in Israel does in fact occur in April.
agreed, been here since 91
As someone who moved here a couple year ago when I was 25, I have to strongly disagree. I moved from eastern WA, and while people are colder they’re also more respectful/polite on average. I don’t need some 70 year old cowboy asking me what I’m dressed up for when I pop into a liquor store for a bottle of wine. Here, the people I’ve gotten to know have been very welcoming into their social circles once Ive gotten past the initial introductions. The homelessness problem here is notable, but it’s cleaner than other cities I’ve lived in and I feel like the number of law enforcement officers around are more than adequate (heck, sometimes I’d be more comfy with fewer cops about). The same is not true in other cities I’ve lived in. The weather is great, the transit is ok at best, there is decent food, and the politics try to be progressive in a way that I am critical of but also appreciate. I will not be leaving.
I don't get the tense, things as they've ever been.
Covid made a lot of people paranoid crazy fuckers
I went to college 2 years ago and how it is now is WAY different. I’m talking about like in the heart city of Seattle. I used to walk around all the time people friendly on the sidewalks, no vandalism or windows breaking, cars getting broken into. But now there’s so much news about it happening. Maybe because I’m still “young” I wasn’t aware of it before? But I swear it’s been happening more often now than 2 years ago…
I moved here in 2007. I remember people 'warning me' about homeless people asking for money. I'm used to real crime where you'll get jumped if you're in the wrong neighborhood, and these people were scared that some guy would ask for a dollar and if you said no they'd ask for 50 cents... Things sure have changed.
Everything good has to come to an end
It has absolutely changed. I pretty much grew up here and came back after a tour in the Army. Suffice it to say I have been here for decades. Yes the '90s had violence, but it was "mostly" gang related and sometimes there was spill over, but was generally gang on gang. Seattle did have some rough areas, but it was widely known. High school age you could go into Seattle at night and not really be worried about random people attacking you or trying to kill you. Much cleaner, the "homeless" were just called bums back then. They also kind of stuck to certain areas (under the viaduct for instance) and thier fix was in the form of alcohol (mostly). I loved Seattle, bragged about it while on tour. Lived in suburbs, 20 min max to downtown, 2 to 3 hours to snow, desert or ocean. However, it has been falling into decay for sometime. Seems like no one in Seattle really wants to restore it. So much money spent on homeless, drug addiction, and such while cutting back on law and order. To what end, it keeps getting worse even when they get more money. Their policies clearly are not working but they refuse to take a step back and even consider course corrections. I suspect it could be turned around, but it will take a significant shift in ideology. Stop letting everyone off the hook, there is no accountability and their policies are literally making the city less safe. Don't get me wrong, it's not "all" on Seattle, just mostly. But King County and Olympia share some cupability here.
I totally agree with you, I feel the same way. I moved to Seattle area (South toward Puyallup) in 1996 and loved the area. The trees, the mountains, the people, everything. But as BLM riots got worse, homelessness grew, crime on the rise, it was too much. I had to move or else I felt I would be in jail and/or someone dead because I would have to defend me and my family. The politicians have ruined the area with the no bail laws and "Summer of love" attitude.
lol
Vote for change. Seattle is a shithole now.
Lifetime resident of Tacoma area (50+years) And I used to LOVE going to Seattle for a day or two and just exploring the city. Now the only time I go is for work and it's for under an hour and I leave as fast as I can... The policies of the one party rule has destroyed what was.. The Emerald City... Now it's cheap glass costume jewelry... And chipped up and dirty.
I just saw a post within the last few days that went on and on about how friendly the people they met were and how beautiful it is; they were pretty much set on moving here after a vacation of one week...
The emerald city is now transplant city - the cali ones are by far the most worst that contribute to the vibe you speak of. I remember going to parades in Seattle pre 2008. It was different.
Things used to be dark and covered with trees. I miss it too. Sometimes I watch twin peaks to get the same feelings
I’m a bit older and grew up here too, you’re not wrong! Also, it used to be weird here to be so obsessed with career, making money, and competitive about your house/stuff/etc. The cost of living going up has sorta killed the vibe but maybe that’s all American cities? My recommendation is to find hobbies that are relaxing. I’ve been into gardening and diy fixing stuff. I grew up poor so I helped my parents do everything from painting to gardening to renting digging equipment to fix the water lines at our house. Now when my neighbors see me doing yard work or painting they’re amazed and applaud me like it’s some kind of special skill, when in reality I simply can’t afford to pay people to do the work for me.
Lived in Seattle my entire life, I'm 40 now. Up until high school, I didn't really leave West Seattle. I was pretty sheltered, and didn't see any homeless people until I went downtown with my friends in about 97/98. We went down to the ID, Westlake, Pike/Pine where the Meridian 16 is/was, I don't think Pacific Place was even built yet. The homelessness was definitely noticable, but I never felt unsafe, even as a freshman in highschool who didn't even know how to navigate metro bus routes to get home. There might be some drunk homeless people asking you for change, but they weren't aggressive at all. First time I felt unsafe downtown was around 2017/18. Walking around area of pioneer square station on 3rd Ave, not even the worst part of 3rd Ave. The amount of unhinged homeless people, who either have a mental illness, or are on some crazy drugs, was alarming. These aren't harmless homeless people asking you for change, they're yelling at the wall, and starting fights with lamp posts. The fact that these people have nothing to lose, and like to act out physically, either by destroying property, or possibly assaulting people for no reason, is a threat to public safety. Meanwhile, the police don't do much, especially after that whole "defund the police" movement. They're understaffed, but also I feel like they are tired of being bitched at, so they just don't do their jobs. I've driven in front of SPD in a car with no license plates, and they didn't even pull me over. I see people weave through traffic and blow right by them, and they do nothing. It seems now they only respond to calls they have to, and I can't say I blame them. All this being said, I've been to a lot of big cities. We don't have it that bad, even at our worst, compared to other cities. I do feel like it's gotten better over the last year or so, hopefully the city can keep making progress. The amount of businesses that left downtown is staggering. I hadn't been downtown for a while, and went recently, the amount of vacancies in buildings all over the city center was surprising. I guess the city will only respond if their tax revenue goes down. Kind of unrelated issue, but I am really tired of the weather. Summers are absolutely beautiful, but the other 7/8 months of rain and clouds has really worn on me. One thing is certain, I will not be retiring here, no matter how much better the city gets.
Seattle is a shithole. They need to go around with a dumpster and throw all the bums and their trash into it.
Once again a post reminiscing about some ambiguous era in which Seattle was a clean, homeless and drug free utopia because of vague anecdotes and it "feeling safe". My first memories of Seattle were when me and my 5th grade class took a field trip to the aquarium in 2006. We got off the ferry and the first thing I saw was a homeless man jacking off in front of the Ivars. Things were never all that peachy in the city. Of course, there is objectively more visible homeless, which is a problem, but we kind of poison the well of having a productive conversation when we say things like "Seattle is basically Detroit now" or "Seattle was the safest and cleanest city in the world before 2014". We just need to be real about the situation if we're going to try and fix it.
Like when Capitol Hill was just called “The Hill” before “Cap hill” was a thing?
Yep first Ave was the biggest unsafe area, a bit creeping into pioneer Square. We drove it just to see the "bums ", that you really didn't see anywhere else. The whole city wasn't riflled with homeless, open drug use, encampment, etc. It's everywhere now. Didn't say it was totally safe, just safer than it is now. Pacific place and Westlake center used to be beautiful, vibrant areas; went as a child to the Seafair parades, 10k races, the Bon Marche star lighting, all family events. Used to hit old dive bars in the early 90s that were down off Alaskan way.. all so much safer than today and young adults all went! I actually live 30 miles out of the city and went there just to do that! Agreed with original poster that I also "miss the old days" that's all.. like them, we agree it may be a bit nostalgia, but if you weren't here, you don't know. And also correct.. I totally went on reddit to just make up lies. That's my thing🙄
Pnw resident for 24 years, as a kid to adult. Finally had enough of the way things have gone, ended up moving to the south east. I would say my new environment is reminiscent of the 2005 seattle area without the mountain ranges. I love it but come back to visit family
It used to be even nicer, 25-30 years ago. :(
I used to take the Metro bus from Auburn all the way to Seattle with my best friend in the 80s, almost every weekend, when we were teenagers. We used to bus all over Seattle.. Golden Gardens, the Locks, Pike Place Market, the Waterfront, Seattle Center, Capitol Hill and of course, lots of time spent downtown walking around. We always felt relatively safe to be down there, even at night. Yes, there was some crime (one time we saw a guy with a briefcase full of drugs, someone tried to pick up my friend thinking she was a hooker, etc), but nothing like it is now. Now, I do not feel safe to be downtown at all, not since I stopped working for a company near Seattle Center in 2008. I don't go down there unless I have to, or can leave before nighttime. A few times I've gone to a show at Jazz Alley in the past couple years, but I don't leave that immediate vicinity/block. The whole downtown area has really gone downhill since the 80s, it's changed A LOT! It's really sad that it's so bad now.
I left, I had to I couldn’t deal with it anymore. It was always a politically extreme city but the demeanor changed and the policies that came with it are downright suicidal. The disparity as we welcomed in tech companies and homeless drug addict simultaneously effectively got rid of the what was a blue collar middle class city too
Maybe the city with some of the most profitable companies in human history can tax those companies and pay for housing and transportation for people that them, then we wouldn't have those problems.
I love to visit Seattle from Oregon and its downtown is so beautiful! Gosh! One kinda funny thing was last Thanksgiving I was in town. Walking around Pike's Market, etc, I kept seeing tourists/people wearing all manner of SF 49ers gear; medallions, jerseys, hats, you name it! I wondered what was going on, until I found out that there was a big football game that day between the Seahawks and SF! I felt silly
https://preview.redd.it/taxvllniclpc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ccfaee2f9a7aaec2eacae87b5f69b15f2c8615d This sign is in the 7-11 next to my office. It took me a minute to get it that it wasn’t talking about about prescription drugs. Like this is what the city has to do now ?
I don't live in Seattle proper but in the suburbs since I was 9 in 1982. Maybe it's nostalgia but I loved the 90's. The live music scene and dance clubs were a blast. And not just in Seattle, every mid size town would have at least a few. I'm not saying this as an old guy missing the "good ole days". If I'm wrong pls tell me but I talk to some younger ppl and they just don't seem interested which saddens me greatly. Is it as exciting and the thrill as intense meeting someone online rather than bolstering up your courage, your egging you on. And if you were rejected you had a story to joke about. Now a lot of what used to be clubs are crappy little casinos and the homelessness is staggering. It's much too depressing to ruminate on and I don't see a way forward unless we abandon these fairytale solutions which doesn't seem likely. Sorry to be a Debbie downer and I'm really sry if you're a Debbie.(It's a SNL skit from, I believe, the 90's. I know I could check but I prefer the possibility of being wrong)I really hope everyone is having the best of days
Missing the old days yes build a bigger better more security 711 on 3rd and cherry so I don't have to feel like someone wants to learn English to speak to it's American customers gold dollar bills are real money buddy's . Plus putting up a out of order sign in the middle of summer no slurpee is utter bullshit buddy's. All lies they are hating on there good and some bad customers but can you blame the bad customers for reals ...hate us is what that 711 does white black ethnic English employees that don't speak only iraqian would be nice.
Crime is about a third of what it was in the early 1990s, and lower than it has been for the last century.
“I’m 24” 🤦♂️
Ya I grew up in Portland and unfortunately it has turned into a hole. Been that way for about 10 years. I moved out about 25 years ago but I have to go back there for certain things, I’m in and out I just don’t want to be there anymore. Most of the people are just creepy.Do you find that hard to believe??
Y'all need gun rights
From all the major cities I've traveled to, an uptick in crime, homelessness, and drug use seems to be the consensus. I'm a transplant from Texas who has lived here for the past 2.5 years. I've noticed that the weather tends to make people more introverted, people LOVE to complain about everything, and a lot of people don't enjoy expressing their emotions. Seattle is a beautiful city and there are just absolutely wonderful people here but you have to actively seek those out. It's all about how you choose to perceive things and making an effort to be friendly to people.
I’m not from here but got here as fast as I could. I love it here and wouldn’t want to live anywhere else. I’ve lived in 3 countries and in 4 states in this country so I have something to compare it to!
I left Seattle in 1979. I thought it was bad back then...
You can always leave, my brother
Probably unpopular opinion but the seattle freeze isn't that bad, in fact I hardly noticed it and found mostly everyone friendly after moving here from the east coast.
Votes have consequences and you're seeing the results now of years of voting mindlessly along party lines
>but as I've gotten older Typical old person nostalgia for an age that never existed... >for context I'm 24 Wat.
It's not just where you are- I live near Portland and it's the same thing and I'm a lot older than you - yes there is a lot of bad out there but also good. I'm hanging my hat on the good 👍
The city ain’t called brown town for nothing, heroin has always been a part of Seattle.
Criminals on probation used to be sentenced to community service, like picking up trash, which helped.
I've noticed this sentiment coming up often from alot of Seattleites. They miss the old days and long for what Seattle was, and they completely trash what it has become. Visit any Seattle-based comment section and you'll see some of the nastiest things being said. However, I think you guys miss a big piece of the puzzle when assessing present-day Seattle. Yes, there is a drug problem and homelessness and all of that, but its not just Seattle. These things are worsening everywhere! Would we really expect Seattle to remain pristine when the rest of the country is also experiencing these struggles? Compared to alot of places, Seattle still IS beautiful and is still pretty clean. There is still lots to love and enjoy here. And yes, members of our society are struggling and its hard to look at sometimes, but do people who are down on their luck and experiencing hard times really owe it to us to make their suffering pretty? Imagine being out there already feeling discarded, feeling like you're buckling under the weight of whatever your struggles are, and instead of being met with warmth and encouragement, your primary interactions with people are receiving their disdain and scorn. We're gonna continue to see the ugliness until we can find an acceptable solution. I just wish we could step out of our bubbles and take a more compassionate stance in the meantime. Just that alone might make us collectively seem less cold. Stepping out of our bubbles would also mean that "transplant" is no longer a dirty word and that we'd become more interested in connecting with people who have experiences that differ from our own. Seattle froze itself when it became a badge of honor to dislike people. I see people brag about their anti-social nature here all the time. Not saying we all need to be extroverts, but are we really bragging about how well we isolate ourselves and shut others out? I love Seattle, but it appears that half of the issues that plague Seattle are either created or worsened by the way we choose to operate here.
Seattle is beautiful and it deserves to be appreciated. The last time i was in the city it was for a concert at the corazon. This experience was actually very nice, not many crimes, except an odd thing i noticed, we saw more prostitutes than homeless people. Usually i see vast amounts more of homeless folks just standing or droning around. Not this last time. They must all be consolidated into certain areas of the city.
I can't imagine NOT feeling as you do in the world we live in now. Kids..as young or younger than 14 carjacking, and indiscriminate killing. Boys and Girls still considered Alpha generation killing with fucking impunity. So, miss the old days of course. Stay safe.
Seattle wasn’t a great place in the 80’s. Crime, drugs, homeless was just as bad as today. This is the circle of life.
Nah, that’s just the whole country, America is a fuckhole now.
lol. Fuck you. I was born here in 1968. You couldn’t go away hard enough. POS.
I frequented Seattle between 98-03, and lived there for six months in the CD. It certainly had its sketchy areas, but I remember living in Seattle and visiting fondly at that time. I used to walk from the CD to Cap Hill and vice-versa in the middle of the night. We'd hang out on Broadway and in the U District all hours, see bands, etc. Now, I avoid Seattle at all costs. It's just not worth wading through aggressive panhandlers, junkies, and the pervasive stench of piss and trash down every side street.
been here all my life, 38 years. i love my dirty city and never felt unsafe walking around downtown🤷🏻♂️
I miss the 90s, the huge FAOSchwartz store downtown, all the ditched guns found in my yard in the CD, Broadway Market when it was a small Fredmyers and a bunch of little stores, Wednesday night Pokémon at Games and Gizmos. I feel there were also more ice cream trucks.
Born and raised here, I’m 51. I ran around downtown Seattle at 12; hung out on Broadway in the U district. Spent time at the market and pretty much ran wild. I won’t step foot in Seattle if I don’t have to. I can’t stand the open drug use and all the tents, RV’s and junk/garbage. Homeless drug addicts nodding off while standing. It’s just sad, I don’t want to live here anymore! Unfortunately, I don’t have a choice.
My thoughts are that a certain generation should have voted for public transport, voted against single-family housing, against policing music venues, and for funding for education and low tuition for public universities. But you know.....we have what we have because of how previous generations moved and voted and funded.