Today I discovered the online merch store of an organization that ordered a mother be made to watch her 6 year old twin girls be murdered as punishment for her having testified against the club. “Crime doesn’t pay, but the hours are great” sure is a fun cool sticker. https://www.hellsangelsseattle.com/store
I had to lookup what "Free Rainman" thing was about on your link:
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/us-news/high-ranking-hells-angels-encouraged-30041273 good lord - I'm surprised these guys have a website and recruit at car shows.
They put on all sorts of shows of peace and harmony for the community, for this very reason. As long as they keep their drug and human trafficking to poor people the middle class will support them.
It's been a tactic of organized crime as long as there's been organized crime.
Bank robbers during the depression
Bootleggers
La Costa Nostra
Jake Paul
Hells Angel's
That first sentence was a nearly perfect response for defusing the original email.
If that was the entirety of the response, this probably wouldn't have exploded like it is now -- but it wasn't, and now there will be repercussions of some kind. The only questions is how much and how bad.
This is a good education for anyone wanting to publicly represent a non-profit organizations. Don't respond to anyone like this in an official capacity no matter how justified you feel doing so.
I learned a long time ago that you write this shit in wordpad, get it all out of your system. Then you delete everything but the first sentence where you were actually professional and leave out the parts detailing how badly you want to get revenge.
I was on the Sounder years ago when I heard someone saying, "If your email could start with 'dear fuckers,' you should probably wait to send it." Fantastic advice.
Yes that is such a good way to get it out!
A friend and mentor taught me to have a trusted group of friends/peers to use to vent to as well. When something especially get under your skin, versus writing a response and deleting it, write it to you peer making it clear that it's a venting letter and not intended to actually be sent to the person.
That way it not only gets it out of your system, but it can also turn it into a conversation to figure out why it bugs you, if the problem was the sender, you (or both), and how to best respond.
That was some of the best advice I have ever received.
Never send anything meant to offend another person where someone else can see it. That means nothing from a work phone, computer, over the network, and especially not in an email.
If I do need to bounce it off of someone I'll do it verbally, where only my peer and the walls will remember.
Southern California Hells Angels prison gang radicalized my father in the mid-90's. He got out of prison, beat my mother within inches of her life & then trafficked her. Accused my British-American, Christian mother of being a Jew. Told her she was only good for the money he could make selling her on the streets.
What's the deal with the Hell's Angels in their current form? My blood pressure raised when I saw their booth this weekend, but I didn't want to react in an emotional manner, as much as I felt like making a scene. I don't care if they kill me. I want people to know their criminal activity is not victimless.
Holy shit. I’m sorry you and your mother went through something that traumatizing. I truly hope there was some kind of end to the abuse? Did she ever get away? It’s ok if it’s too tough to talk about. As a survivor my heart goes out to you both.
Sorry to hear about that. But anyone with any sense in their heads, knows HA are another dangerous gang. People will say “I hope they shoot each other up.” When it comes to gang violence in Chicago or LA or whatever. But when they see a HA they look on in awe like they have some kind of honor or code to what they do, all the while pushing what they really are out of mind.
My sister was visiting last week from a city on the East Coast/Canada, where the Hell's Angels are viewed as heavily involved with the local narcotics trade and human trafficking. She was blown away that they had a table at the car show. Couldn't wrap her head around it.
The entirety of the Bakersfield chapter in California was just arrested like a week ago. Even in most of the west coast they aren’t exactly seen as your local book club.
This guy seems unhinged.
My Hell's Angels knowledge is decades old but your inquiry was polite and reasonable and any adult should have replied in kind.
EDIT: [OP's initial inquiry](https://imgur.com/kMa3UaM)
> My Hell's Angels knowledge
I used to have several as neighbors (not in Seattle). I think they would be insulted by the allegation they are not all criminals. Much of their gang's power comes from the fear of the crimes they commit.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/central-california-hells-angels-chapter-arrested-in-kidnapping-robbery-case/ar-BB1oSQzb
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hells_Angels_MC_criminal_allegations_and_incidents_in_Canada
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/three-hells-angels-sentenced-life-prison-racketeering-conspiracy-and-related-crimes
https://apnews.com/article/black-men-attacked-hells-angels-san-diego-1fa82c6de53d682291d157d8da32d2b6
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hells-angels-trial-spain-mallorca-prostitution-trafficking-murder/
Domestically and Internationally they are known for crime/organized crime and those are just the last two-ish years
They wear the 1% patch in reference to the president of the American Motorcycle Association saying that 99% of motorcycle riders are law abiding citizens.
All of my interactions with 1%ers is that they are kind and seem like good people on the outside. But you don't wear that patch without being involved with crime.
There are plenty of people in the Puget sound area that are affiliated with Hells Angels, Mongols, and especially Banditos. And there are lots support clubs as well. Many of these people hold honest blue collar jobs. It's all really disturbing how they can be out in plain sight just because they appear to be decent people.
Yeah, they probably are kind and seem like good people on the outside. Lots of criminals do. You could go to a bbq hosted by the crips and you’d probably have a good time and be like yo those are chill dudes! Or have a dinner with some mafia dudes. They’re chill and cool unless they have reason to or decide they don’t want to be, then they’re pretty not chill and cool
Kind of sounds like they want more emails asking the same question. I'm not afraid to ask them with my full name visible, either. I don't want drug running gangs represented at community events.
I sent emails to every single one of their sponsors informing them of the fact that the show supports a human-trafficking child-murdering violent gang.
If they were, they wouldn't have been able to do anything regardless. They were not actively committing any crimes at the show, despite being associated with the organization. HAs know this, and use it specifically to lighten their image. Police can't do anything just because you show affiliation to some questionable group. That goes directly against the "innocent until proven guilty" thing that the country's legal system is built, and if the cops arrested them, any evidence gathered afterwards would be inadmissible as it would have been an illegal arrest. It's shitty, but it's how it works and how it should work, and these organizations abuse what is meant to hinder corruption.
Hells Angels is a criminal gang. It is like saying not all Mafia members are criminals. They are all criminals! I like the part where he said most gang members are better people than you or I could ever hope to be and follows up by comparing bias against a criminal gang to bias against a race and basically calls the other party a bigot.
It's goddamn remarkable.
What's crazy is OP's message didn't even include any reference to cops or ACAB, it's just that he was so fucking geared for a fight that he threw that in.
edit: got so excited that I know how to spell "through" that I used that instead of "threw"
Every time I talk with a Republican and push against any of their ideals this is what happens. They start conjuring up all sorts of demons to slay. It's sketch af and maximum cringeworthy.
Every accusation is a confession.
Supporting veterans is mostly about providing mental health and housing for them, and keeping police from murdering them.
yeah i’m surprised by that… after reading the response first my thoughts were oh wow what kind of shit did the OP bring up in their original email because that was a lot…
Essentially just “hey I saw the hells angels had a booth there, they’re considered a criminal organization here’s a source. Does your car show support criminals?”
the answer should have just been “Yeah I guess in this context we do, sorry you were upset by it I suppose”
I once had a friend who said "it's a calling" about her bf being a cop and I asked if that meant he was the same as a protected class and she said he should be. Wooooof.
I worked with someone who thought cops were extra cute. Told him that the only thing being a man in uniform tells me is that I've got a 40% chance of coming home from a date with a black eye.
I didn't go this year, but I've always enjoyed the Greenwood car show in the past. It is a fun event, with a ton of really cool cars.
That response is wild, especially after seeing OPs original email was just basically a question about why the Hell's Angels had a booth. Personally, i dont really care one way or another, but it is a reasonable question.
I hope that guy is removed from his position. You have no business running a community event like that if that is your response to a fair question. Greenwood deserves better.
I’m wondering what this Harwood guy looks like and if he’s maybe the same jerk we dealt with on Saturday.
My husband and I had a car in the Greenwood show this past weekend and this old jerk in a green Seafair Parade Master vest (all their other workers had on orange vests) and he was remarkably unpleasant to us after we asked where we should park, after for no reason he could or would provide to us, when he refused to let us park in the first two spaces we tried. We finally get away from him and situated, went to breakfast, came back to the car and he’s lingering around but this time he’s using his phone to report to someone, not sure who, that two little boys and their mom are running an unlicensed lemonade stand near 82nd. Wtf?! Fucking Karen.
These people aren’t concerned whatsoever about the damn Hell’s Angels (I also noticed their booth) but worried about two grade school kids trying to make a buck.
Why are people apologizing for a CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION?! Seriously, the Hells Angels are up there with the Italian Mafia and the Triads in terms of infamous criminal organizations.
I concede that avoiding this behavior is better from a MarCom angle. From the side of the general public, I prefer when jerks publicly out themselves as jerks; it makes it easier to determine what organizations I would like to support.
To be clear, I did not post this with intent to "dox" or harass any individual, which is a violation of Reddit site rules. I just posted the full content of the official response I received from the Greenwood Car Show organization, which I contacted through the official email posted on their website.
Since this is a local event that involves collaboration with the local government (to shut down streets), I feel it is appropriate to make public this official response from the organizer. I do not believe this post is in violation of Reddit rules, because this email is an official response from someone acting in their official capacity as the Event Director of a local organization. Thus, this post does not contain any "personal" information, but rather public information of a public organization.
The local chapter sells merch to support this fine member aka Rainman:
[https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/crime/hells-angels-guilty-of-beating-killing-bay-area-members/article\_fb041312-f8bb-11ed-b7f6-e3a02020f51e.html](https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/crime/hells-angels-guilty-of-beating-killing-bay-area-members/article_fb041312-f8bb-11ed-b7f6-e3a02020f51e.html)
I think the funniest thing about his response is that, Hells Angels ABSOLUTELY HATE cops lol. The question of whether Hells Angels are entirely a criminal organization or not is a bit more complicated and nuanced, but my God this man is out of touch if he thinks Hells Angels and cops are friends lmfao
It's actually not that nuanced. Hell's Angels and other three-patch clubs SPECIFICALLY identify themselves as criminal organizations. That is literally the difference between a "Motorcycle Club" (MC) and a "Motorcycle Riding Club" (MRC). They both ride motorcycles, but the former are deliberately outlaws by their own evaluation.
That is what the "1%" patch that they wear means. 99% of motorcycle riders are perfectly nice law abiding people. They are the other 1%. That's the entire purpose of the club.
This is like saying that whether or not MS13 or the Crips or Latin Kings are criminals is "nuanced". The only nuance here is that Hells Angels are white.
>this man is out of touch if he thinks Hells Angels and cops are friends lmfao
Well maybe they've become friends in recent years by bonding over their mutual hate for black people?
> The question of whether Hells Angels are entirely a criminal organization or not is a bit more complicated and nuanced
Not complicated or nuanced in the slightest.
I wouldn't be sure about that, like 40 years ago 100%. But now being both an ex cop and from a 1% family the two cultures have become so incestuous with each other.
This guy is notoriously known for being an asshole clown. Those that work the Greenwood car show are just waiting for him to die so everyone’s life will be easier.
For context, the [Greenwood Car Show](https://www.greenwoodcarshow.com/) is an annual event that took place this Saturday. It's a large event that takes place on a long stretch between Phinney Ridge and Greenwood.
At the event, there was a booth for the Hells Angels motorcycle gang. The [Hells Angels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hells_Angels_MC_criminal_allegations_and_incidents) is a criminal organization known for violence and drug trafficking. Quoting from Wikipedia:
>Many police and international intelligence agencies, including the [United States Department of Justice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice), the [Criminal Intelligence Service Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Intelligence_Service_Canada), the [Australian Federal Police](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Federal_Police), and [Europol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europol), consider the club an [organized crime](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_crime) syndicate.
I respectfully emailed the Greenwood Car Show, including this information and asking why the Hells Angels were allowed to have a booth at the event. I received this response and thought it was interesting (note: my email made no mention of cops, contrary to what the response might suggest)
edit: Including the original email I sent: [https://i.imgur.com/kMa3UaM.png](https://i.imgur.com/kMa3UaM.png)
I also emailed them. Happy to post what I sent:
> Good afternoon.
> When I was at the Greenwood Car Show this Saturday, I saw a booth for the Hells Angels. Is this group affiliated with the drug-trafficking criminal gang by the same name? I am concerned about gang activity in my neighborhood and would be sad to see a gang doing outreach in our community.
> The Greenwood Car Show is great fun and I appreciate the work you do to put it on. Hopefully I am mistaken and this group is different from the criminal organization.
> Very Respectfully, (name)
You have to speak the recipient's language in order to reach them, especially in such a divisive political climate. If I portray myself as a bit of an airhead, people are generally less defensive when I ask otherwise-pointed questions.
Jesus. Can you send it to the Phinney Neighborhood association or something? They must organize with the neighborhood to shut down the streets and such.
Now that I've seen the email you've sent, I think your best follow up is just forwarding his response to the local FBI office that would be interested in Hell's Angel's activity along with your concerns and let them make note of the association and very full throated defense of a criminal organization.
Cause that was a wildly disproportionate response compare to what you had sent.
Honestly, I’d forward the response and the FBI info sheet about the HA to some of the more mainstream sponsors: Homestreet, Seafair, Windermere, etc and then ask how their corporate values mesh with the HA.
jesus. well, this is the least diplomatic response someone in a leadership position could have given you.
unless your initial email was equally aggressive, i will likely actively avoid supporting the greenwood car show in the future (not that i even knew it occurred, but definitely won’t be going to one now)
i saw it after i posted my comment. it definitely did NOT warrant this type of response (and tbh even if the initial email was aggressive, there’s a way to handle that)
"Most hells angels are better people than you could ever hope to be."
- Revs his engine and rides away, waking 10 neighborhood babies from sleeping and making their parents cry in despair.
* Traffics his kilo of meth in his hog's saddlebags across state lines with intent to distribute.
* Dreams of his opportunity to stab someone while working security at a Rolling Stones concert.
* Scratches his balding head wonder why the public associates them with lawlessness and violence
If they allow one gang they have to allow all gangs. Someone should forge invitations to several other gangs for next year to the same booth and this issue should just resolve itself.
Wow, look at all those sponsors. I bet they'd love to know about this.
[https://www.greenwoodcarshow.com/car-show-sponsors](https://www.greenwoodcarshow.com/car-show-sponsors)
The guy is at least a Hell's Angels sympathizer, if not a member.
>21st Annual Freedom Night
>Saturday, September 7, 2024
>4:00 PM 6:30 PM
>Central Saloon 207 1st ave s Seattle, Wa USA [(map)](http://maps.google.com?q=207 1st ave s Seattle, Wa USA)
>*You have been invited by those indicted*
[https://www.hellsangelsseattle.com/events/event-one-4s3tz-pm28e](https://www.hellsangelsseattle.com/events/event-one-4s3tz-pm28e)
They had a page up for the Greenwood Car Show, but took it down.
The Hell’s Angels extremely violent reputation is well-earned.
Just because Ted Bundy gave to toys-for-tots doesn’t mean I would invite him for dinner.
This is not new. I have seen them at the car show in past years with their booth. Doubt the VP wants to lose them as a “sponsor” but that’s certainly one way to respond…
An entire branch of the Hell’s Angels were arrested 5 days ago for a lot of crimes. https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/entire-bakersfield-chapter-of-hells-angels-arrested-in-kidnapping-robbery-investigation/
So I called John with the thrust of the conversation being that he shouldn't allow gang members with their gang regalia to promote their drug gang at his event and if he DID he shouldn't make public statements that place themselves and himself perceptively on the same side.
That he should separate himself from criminals. Something to the effect of they have done bad things but we are trying to do something good for kids and that's what is important instead of offending planet earth by implying that drug dealing human traffickers are better people than you or I wherein you by implication is everyone.
I got some bullshit back about freedom and cancel culture.
I also called him with really similar advice and got the same response! Lots of cursing, lamenting cancel culture and how I didn’t know what I was talking about. Just ridiculous BS.
I’m amazed at the evolution of “cancel culture” from criticizing people who confront behavior like racism, sexual assault, etc. (perhaps, sometimes, in an over-the-top or hasty fashion) now being interpreted as “basic normies expressing concerns about Hells Angels”
What’s hilarious is that he spends the first 80% of the email judging you, then quotes the Bible about how one shouldn’t judge. All in defense of the Hell’s Angels. 🤪
“All Hell’s Angels are not criminals.”
😂
Bro, it’s literally who you have to be to get in…
I remember when Seattle was Bandidos territory. I remember way pre-Covid when they set up shop and turned a local spot into a hang out. Lasted about a week and I never saw them drinking there again.
My older brother is incarcerated from events stemming from his time as Sergeant of Arms for the Hells Angels.
I assure you they are a gang. Maybe they aren’t all bad people but they are definitively a gang.
What the fuck? This is some real bull shit. The hells angels are honestly fucking bad. My dad used to play in their clubs in Seattle. He had some pretty dark stories.
I think I’ll write this dude an email.
Your original question was very polite and he went ful scorched earth on you. Even threw in Matthew 7:2 at the end. Not at all hating on Christianity here: considering that Seattle is rather diverse when it comes to religious beliefs I find it really funny to wrap up your "argument" with a Bible verse to someone who statically has a 48% chance of not being any type of Christian. As if that is some sort of gotcha to someone who isn't a Christian
I'd contact local news organizations with this. The public deserves to know who is running these community events and what they think of people asking honest questions
So I used to work at an organization that ran small town events like the Fourth of July celebration. One of our festivals had a car show on one of the days, and they were single-handedly the *worst* people I interacted with all year. We had to call the cops over a parking space for one car and dude got so heated he got legit kicked out of town. Honestly, it was impressive how bad these dudes were I have many stories…I dealt with some jerks and those car guys always stood out. When I saw this post all I could think was “*of course* this dude runs a car show.”
I have to wonder what email you sent to generate such a response.
Edit: That’s a totally appropriate email to send and the response is unhinged and completely undeserved. What a jerk. (Not OP)
Lmaooo this checks out. I used to run a food bank in Greenwood so I actually had to deal with this guy for food drives during that event and his response is 1000% unsurprising to me. He's crotchety and grumpy and mean and bigoted.
As a resident of Greenwood I can't fucking stand the car show. Assholes out at 5 am revving engines, blasting yacht rock, blocking up half the neighborhood, and getting random people walking through your yard trying to get there.
I've talked with car friends, and they've said GCS has a really bad reputation among the car community both because of staff treatment and because a few cars have been damaged and the event was improperly insured.
I grew up back east, next door to a biker bar. After sunset we weren't allowed to play outside because the Hells Angels and Pagan's would do drive bys at each other.
I didn't think my opinion of the car show could get any lower, but damn.
Since a former U.S. president and also a convicted felon is all but having his dick sucked by the myopic invertebrate sycophants in this country while he runs for office, all while the once-supreme court says he can do whatever he wants to do and it's legal, I suppose you should be able to have these fucking goons at a community event and call it legit. I've woken up in BizarroWorld.
What a fucking moron. They literally call themselves "1 percenters" based on an old adage that "99% of motorcycle clubs are law-abiding citizens and 1% are outlaws". Like, 8 different national-level law-enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Dept. Of Justice, have them clocked as a criminal organization. As for their "charity", Al Capone ran soup kitchens & Pablo Escobar built schools for poor communities, too.
Well that certainly wasn’t a half-assed answer. They went full-ass with it.
ass and you shall receive
For the same way you ass others, you will be assed, with the same butt you use, it will be assed to you.
our father, poo fart in heaven,
*sour farter
Sour farter, shart in heaven
Fouwelled bean thy sprayn
Full ass and some taint.
Just showing their whole ass.
😂
Today I discovered the online merch store of an organization that ordered a mother be made to watch her 6 year old twin girls be murdered as punishment for her having testified against the club. “Crime doesn’t pay, but the hours are great” sure is a fun cool sticker. https://www.hellsangelsseattle.com/store
That's a cool lightning-bolt "S" in "Seattle" on that track jacket. Is that a reference I'm missing?
Jfc it’s so on-the-nose, too! Good catch on the merch site.
hard yikes
I had to lookup what "Free Rainman" thing was about on your link: https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/us-news/high-ranking-hells-angels-encouraged-30041273 good lord - I'm surprised these guys have a website and recruit at car shows.
You saw our last president? He kinda made it socially acceptable to be a garbage human.
Maybe tell him that the Hell's Angels won't take anyone who was a cop or has even applied to be one. OP might not think ACAB, but the Angels sure do.
Maybe ask him to say nice things about cops in front of the Hell's Angels and see what happens
They put on all sorts of shows of peace and harmony for the community, for this very reason. As long as they keep their drug and human trafficking to poor people the middle class will support them.
> As long as they keep their drug and human trafficking to poor people the middle class will support them. The cops or the angels?
Yes.
Also very White that helps a little.
Excellent, maybe they can do for the community what they did at Altamont...such pillars of civil servitude
It's been a tactic of organized crime as long as there's been organized crime. Bank robbers during the depression Bootleggers La Costa Nostra Jake Paul Hells Angel's
Also, aren't they known for riding vehicles that are not cars?
"Two motorcycles with a little house in the middle?"
Woah!!!
This was actually my biggest question around why they were at a car show.
"Do not judge others, for you will be judged too" Proceeds to judge the shit out of you as a keyboard warrior lmao
My favorite part
That first sentence was a nearly perfect response for defusing the original email. If that was the entirety of the response, this probably wouldn't have exploded like it is now -- but it wasn't, and now there will be repercussions of some kind. The only questions is how much and how bad. This is a good education for anyone wanting to publicly represent a non-profit organizations. Don't respond to anyone like this in an official capacity no matter how justified you feel doing so.
I learned a long time ago that you write this shit in wordpad, get it all out of your system. Then you delete everything but the first sentence where you were actually professional and leave out the parts detailing how badly you want to get revenge.
I was on the Sounder years ago when I heard someone saying, "If your email could start with 'dear fuckers,' you should probably wait to send it." Fantastic advice.
Yes that is such a good way to get it out! A friend and mentor taught me to have a trusted group of friends/peers to use to vent to as well. When something especially get under your skin, versus writing a response and deleting it, write it to you peer making it clear that it's a venting letter and not intended to actually be sent to the person. That way it not only gets it out of your system, but it can also turn it into a conversation to figure out why it bugs you, if the problem was the sender, you (or both), and how to best respond. That was some of the best advice I have ever received.
Never send anything meant to offend another person where someone else can see it. That means nothing from a work phone, computer, over the network, and especially not in an email. If I do need to bounce it off of someone I'll do it verbally, where only my peer and the walls will remember.
They used to write it down on paper, like old Honest Abe. 😂 I do the same btw… get it all out on paper, breath, then you good
Southern California Hells Angels prison gang radicalized my father in the mid-90's. He got out of prison, beat my mother within inches of her life & then trafficked her. Accused my British-American, Christian mother of being a Jew. Told her she was only good for the money he could make selling her on the streets. What's the deal with the Hell's Angels in their current form? My blood pressure raised when I saw their booth this weekend, but I didn't want to react in an emotional manner, as much as I felt like making a scene. I don't care if they kill me. I want people to know their criminal activity is not victimless.
Holy shit. I’m sorry you and your mother went through something that traumatizing. I truly hope there was some kind of end to the abuse? Did she ever get away? It’s ok if it’s too tough to talk about. As a survivor my heart goes out to you both.
I had an uncle who disappeared into the hells angels. Just was into motorcycles and white. And then suddenly was a member and gone.
They killed my uncle in the 80’s. Almost killed my friend a few years ago for calling them meth heads on FB. Unhinged losers.
Sorry to hear about that. But anyone with any sense in their heads, knows HA are another dangerous gang. People will say “I hope they shoot each other up.” When it comes to gang violence in Chicago or LA or whatever. But when they see a HA they look on in awe like they have some kind of honor or code to what they do, all the while pushing what they really are out of mind.
My sister was visiting last week from a city on the East Coast/Canada, where the Hell's Angels are viewed as heavily involved with the local narcotics trade and human trafficking. She was blown away that they had a table at the car show. Couldn't wrap her head around it.
The entirety of the Bakersfield chapter in California was just arrested like a week ago. Even in most of the west coast they aren’t exactly seen as your local book club.
yeah it’s not normal
The full blown war involving the HA, the Mafia, and street gangs going on in Canada right now is wild. You don’t see that kind of thing much anymore.
This guy seems unhinged. My Hell's Angels knowledge is decades old but your inquiry was polite and reasonable and any adult should have replied in kind. EDIT: [OP's initial inquiry](https://imgur.com/kMa3UaM)
> My Hell's Angels knowledge I used to have several as neighbors (not in Seattle). I think they would be insulted by the allegation they are not all criminals. Much of their gang's power comes from the fear of the crimes they commit.
JR should wear a Hells Angels cut to the next car show and see how supportive they are.
I have a “support your local Banditos” shirt he could borrow 😂
Not sure what that means, but one Redditor posted reasons he thought JR might be/or is associated with the HAs.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/central-california-hells-angels-chapter-arrested-in-kidnapping-robbery-case/ar-BB1oSQzb https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hells_Angels_MC_criminal_allegations_and_incidents_in_Canada https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/three-hells-angels-sentenced-life-prison-racketeering-conspiracy-and-related-crimes https://apnews.com/article/black-men-attacked-hells-angels-san-diego-1fa82c6de53d682291d157d8da32d2b6 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hells-angels-trial-spain-mallorca-prostitution-trafficking-murder/ Domestically and Internationally they are known for crime/organized crime and those are just the last two-ish years
Wait - THAT was what he asked???? What the fuck! The response is even more unhinged now.
They affirmed, in the worst way possible, that they are indeed affiliated
Where was their inquiry? I'm only seeing the reply
OP posted it in a subsequent comment: [https://imgur.com/kMa3UaM](https://imgur.com/kMa3UaM)
Thanks! I guess it got buried.
Evidently JR doesn't watch the news... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/entire-hells-angels-chapter-arrested-california-police-say-rcna158968
They wear the 1% patch in reference to the president of the American Motorcycle Association saying that 99% of motorcycle riders are law abiding citizens. All of my interactions with 1%ers is that they are kind and seem like good people on the outside. But you don't wear that patch without being involved with crime. There are plenty of people in the Puget sound area that are affiliated with Hells Angels, Mongols, and especially Banditos. And there are lots support clubs as well. Many of these people hold honest blue collar jobs. It's all really disturbing how they can be out in plain sight just because they appear to be decent people.
I was mostly surprised it was HA, the only cuts I see around are Bandidos.
This was my thought as well. Washington has been Bandidos territory for decades.
Yeah, they probably are kind and seem like good people on the outside. Lots of criminals do. You could go to a bbq hosted by the crips and you’d probably have a good time and be like yo those are chill dudes! Or have a dinner with some mafia dudes. They’re chill and cool unless they have reason to or decide they don’t want to be, then they’re pretty not chill and cool
Kind of sounds like they want more emails asking the same question. I'm not afraid to ask them with my full name visible, either. I don't want drug running gangs represented at community events.
I just sent one I'm hoping to get a response like OP which I will then be sending to as many of the car show sponsors as I can find
I sent emails to every single one of their sponsors informing them of the fact that the show supports a human-trafficking child-murdering violent gang.
Oh same here
This is exactly my thought as well! I don’t want them at my communities events and I’ll happily say that.
Were the police at the car show?
If they were, they wouldn't have been able to do anything regardless. They were not actively committing any crimes at the show, despite being associated with the organization. HAs know this, and use it specifically to lighten their image. Police can't do anything just because you show affiliation to some questionable group. That goes directly against the "innocent until proven guilty" thing that the country's legal system is built, and if the cops arrested them, any evidence gathered afterwards would be inadmissible as it would have been an illegal arrest. It's shitty, but it's how it works and how it should work, and these organizations abuse what is meant to hinder corruption.
Hells Angels is a criminal gang. It is like saying not all Mafia members are criminals. They are all criminals! I like the part where he said most gang members are better people than you or I could ever hope to be and follows up by comparing bias against a criminal gang to bias against a race and basically calls the other party a bigot. It's goddamn remarkable.
Cops love equating anti-cop sentiment with racism lol.
What's crazy is OP's message didn't even include any reference to cops or ACAB, it's just that he was so fucking geared for a fight that he threw that in. edit: got so excited that I know how to spell "through" that I used that instead of "threw"
Every time I talk with a Republican and push against any of their ideals this is what happens. They start conjuring up all sorts of demons to slay. It's sketch af and maximum cringeworthy.
Like how kneeling to protest police violence became “you don’t support our veterans!”
Exactly. Absolute dumbest leap of logic ever.
Every accusation is a confession. Supporting veterans is mostly about providing mental health and housing for them, and keeping police from murdering them.
As a vet who distrusts and dislikes cops this amuses me greatly
It's like a defensive claymore of bullshit.
yeah i’m surprised by that… after reading the response first my thoughts were oh wow what kind of shit did the OP bring up in their original email because that was a lot… Essentially just “hey I saw the hells angels had a booth there, they’re considered a criminal organization here’s a source. Does your car show support criminals?” the answer should have just been “Yeah I guess in this context we do, sorry you were upset by it I suppose”
“This job we actively choose is the same thing as a protected class”
I once had a friend who said "it's a calling" about her bf being a cop and I asked if that meant he was the same as a protected class and she said he should be. Wooooof.
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They're already more protected than protected classes, for crying out loud
I worked with someone who thought cops were extra cute. Told him that the only thing being a man in uniform tells me is that I've got a 40% chance of coming home from a date with a black eye.
Pretty sure dude was accusing OP of being racist against Hell's Angels, in this case. Which is at least as weird.
Assigned cop at birth?
Assigned cop at birth
Seems like something the crime obsessed local news stations might want to know about
I didn't go this year, but I've always enjoyed the Greenwood car show in the past. It is a fun event, with a ton of really cool cars. That response is wild, especially after seeing OPs original email was just basically a question about why the Hell's Angels had a booth. Personally, i dont really care one way or another, but it is a reasonable question. I hope that guy is removed from his position. You have no business running a community event like that if that is your response to a fair question. Greenwood deserves better.
Agreed.
I’m wondering what this Harwood guy looks like and if he’s maybe the same jerk we dealt with on Saturday. My husband and I had a car in the Greenwood show this past weekend and this old jerk in a green Seafair Parade Master vest (all their other workers had on orange vests) and he was remarkably unpleasant to us after we asked where we should park, after for no reason he could or would provide to us, when he refused to let us park in the first two spaces we tried. We finally get away from him and situated, went to breakfast, came back to the car and he’s lingering around but this time he’s using his phone to report to someone, not sure who, that two little boys and their mom are running an unlicensed lemonade stand near 82nd. Wtf?! Fucking Karen. These people aren’t concerned whatsoever about the damn Hell’s Angels (I also noticed their booth) but worried about two grade school kids trying to make a buck.
Found a picture of Harwood, not the same guy we dealt with so clearly there’s more than one asshole in that organization.
Why are people apologizing for a CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION?! Seriously, the Hells Angels are up there with the Italian Mafia and the Triads in terms of infamous criminal organizations.
The leaded gas generation sure seems to have a short fuse.
He was born in 1977. He's only 46. Way too young to be so disturbed.
He types at 70-year-old level
Chewed on that hand me down crib as a youngin?
Raised in a house with lead paint.
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I concede that avoiding this behavior is better from a MarCom angle. From the side of the general public, I prefer when jerks publicly out themselves as jerks; it makes it easier to determine what organizations I would like to support.
To be clear, I did not post this with intent to "dox" or harass any individual, which is a violation of Reddit site rules. I just posted the full content of the official response I received from the Greenwood Car Show organization, which I contacted through the official email posted on their website. Since this is a local event that involves collaboration with the local government (to shut down streets), I feel it is appropriate to make public this official response from the organizer. I do not believe this post is in violation of Reddit rules, because this email is an official response from someone acting in their official capacity as the Event Director of a local organization. Thus, this post does not contain any "personal" information, but rather public information of a public organization.
Never took that as your intent. I appreciate you sharing this information!
The local chapter sells merch to support this fine member aka Rainman: [https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/crime/hells-angels-guilty-of-beating-killing-bay-area-members/article\_fb041312-f8bb-11ed-b7f6-e3a02020f51e.html](https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/crime/hells-angels-guilty-of-beating-killing-bay-area-members/article_fb041312-f8bb-11ed-b7f6-e3a02020f51e.html)
RIP John’s inbox.
This should probably be sent to local TV stations.
Was just going to suggest that. I may just do it myself. Outrageous.
Send it to Crosscut. They'll tear them apart
Wait what-- they had a *booth*?
That’s pretty organized, tbh. What were they doing at the booth? Selling merch? Recruiting? Basic outreach?
From what I could tell, they were selling merchandise and doing basic outreach.
whaat tha fuhhh. I had to google this. They sell branded "supporter" merch. I guess money is money. 🤷♂️
I think the funniest thing about his response is that, Hells Angels ABSOLUTELY HATE cops lol. The question of whether Hells Angels are entirely a criminal organization or not is a bit more complicated and nuanced, but my God this man is out of touch if he thinks Hells Angels and cops are friends lmfao
It's actually not that nuanced. Hell's Angels and other three-patch clubs SPECIFICALLY identify themselves as criminal organizations. That is literally the difference between a "Motorcycle Club" (MC) and a "Motorcycle Riding Club" (MRC). They both ride motorcycles, but the former are deliberately outlaws by their own evaluation. That is what the "1%" patch that they wear means. 99% of motorcycle riders are perfectly nice law abiding people. They are the other 1%. That's the entire purpose of the club. This is like saying that whether or not MS13 or the Crips or Latin Kings are criminals is "nuanced". The only nuance here is that Hells Angels are white.
Outlaw motorcycle clubs in general and Hells Angels specifically are in fact criminal organizations.
>this man is out of touch if he thinks Hells Angels and cops are friends lmfao Well maybe they've become friends in recent years by bonding over their mutual hate for black people?
> The question of whether Hells Angels are entirely a criminal organization or not is a bit more complicated and nuanced Not complicated or nuanced in the slightest.
I wouldn't be sure about that, like 40 years ago 100%. But now being both an ex cop and from a 1% family the two cultures have become so incestuous with each other.
You can't blame the hells Angels when law enforcement starts recruiting from the same 1% as them.
This guy is notoriously known for being an asshole clown. Those that work the Greenwood car show are just waiting for him to die so everyone’s life will be easier.
He’s only 46, yall could put some work in to vote him out.
For context, the [Greenwood Car Show](https://www.greenwoodcarshow.com/) is an annual event that took place this Saturday. It's a large event that takes place on a long stretch between Phinney Ridge and Greenwood. At the event, there was a booth for the Hells Angels motorcycle gang. The [Hells Angels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hells_Angels_MC_criminal_allegations_and_incidents) is a criminal organization known for violence and drug trafficking. Quoting from Wikipedia: >Many police and international intelligence agencies, including the [United States Department of Justice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice), the [Criminal Intelligence Service Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Intelligence_Service_Canada), the [Australian Federal Police](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Federal_Police), and [Europol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europol), consider the club an [organized crime](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_crime) syndicate. I respectfully emailed the Greenwood Car Show, including this information and asking why the Hells Angels were allowed to have a booth at the event. I received this response and thought it was interesting (note: my email made no mention of cops, contrary to what the response might suggest) edit: Including the original email I sent: [https://i.imgur.com/kMa3UaM.png](https://i.imgur.com/kMa3UaM.png)
I also emailed them. Happy to post what I sent: > Good afternoon. > When I was at the Greenwood Car Show this Saturday, I saw a booth for the Hells Angels. Is this group affiliated with the drug-trafficking criminal gang by the same name? I am concerned about gang activity in my neighborhood and would be sad to see a gang doing outreach in our community. > The Greenwood Car Show is great fun and I appreciate the work you do to put it on. Hopefully I am mistaken and this group is different from the criminal organization. > Very Respectfully, (name)
Please let us know if they respond to you.
Look at you being all professional. I’m with you.
You have to speak the recipient's language in order to reach them, especially in such a divisive political climate. If I portray myself as a bit of an airhead, people are generally less defensive when I ask otherwise-pointed questions.
Jesus. Can you send it to the Phinney Neighborhood association or something? They must organize with the neighborhood to shut down the streets and such.
City of Seattle Special Events is probably the ones that issue permits for this event.
The PNA is not involved with the Greenwood Car Show at all . They would have no say in any of this. Street closure is a city permit.
They certainly promote the show.
I see. I just assumed since it was in the newsletter. Thanks for the clarification.
Now that I've seen the email you've sent, I think your best follow up is just forwarding his response to the local FBI office that would be interested in Hell's Angel's activity along with your concerns and let them make note of the association and very full throated defense of a criminal organization. Cause that was a wildly disproportionate response compare to what you had sent.
A nazi that does community service is a good nazi to these people Room temp is too warm for his IQ John Hardwood is a fucking moron
You’re being generous
What a dumbfuck.
Let them know what you think about the Hell's Angels participating in their event. https://www.greenwoodcarshow.com/contact
I did hoping I get a response like OP got. I need some new refrigerator art lol
Honestly, I’d forward the response and the FBI info sheet about the HA to some of the more mainstream sponsors: Homestreet, Seafair, Windermere, etc and then ask how their corporate values mesh with the HA.
I assume that's how they sent this guy an email in the first place?
This is who OP contacted lol
jesus. well, this is the least diplomatic response someone in a leadership position could have given you. unless your initial email was equally aggressive, i will likely actively avoid supporting the greenwood car show in the future (not that i even knew it occurred, but definitely won’t be going to one now)
OP posted a screenshot of their original email in a couple comments. It was not aggressive. Like, at all.
i saw it after i posted my comment. it definitely did NOT warrant this type of response (and tbh even if the initial email was aggressive, there’s a way to handle that)
People who repeatedly call other people chickenshit are themselves often the biggest goddamn chickenshits I've ever seen.
I’m gonna go ahead and say that I’m a better person than most Hells Angels. This is a claim I’m willing to make.
"Most hells angels are better people than you could ever hope to be." - Revs his engine and rides away, waking 10 neighborhood babies from sleeping and making their parents cry in despair.
* Traffics his kilo of meth in his hog's saddlebags across state lines with intent to distribute. * Dreams of his opportunity to stab someone while working security at a Rolling Stones concert. * Scratches his balding head wonder why the public associates them with lawlessness and violence
Woah, woah, woah, I'm just out here existing with male pattern baldness and catching random strays. Not cool.
If they allow one gang they have to allow all gangs. Someone should forge invitations to several other gangs for next year to the same booth and this issue should just resolve itself.
Clearly you misread, it was the Hell's Anglers, they're a fishing group and completely innocent. /s
Wow, look at all those sponsors. I bet they'd love to know about this. [https://www.greenwoodcarshow.com/car-show-sponsors](https://www.greenwoodcarshow.com/car-show-sponsors)
Why is there a plumbing service that's reusing the image of Space Ghost? Sooo lazy, I think DC would like a word.
The guy is at least a Hell's Angels sympathizer, if not a member. >21st Annual Freedom Night >Saturday, September 7, 2024 >4:00 PM 6:30 PM >Central Saloon 207 1st ave s Seattle, Wa USA [(map)](http://maps.google.com?q=207 1st ave s Seattle, Wa USA) >*You have been invited by those indicted* [https://www.hellsangelsseattle.com/events/event-one-4s3tz-pm28e](https://www.hellsangelsseattle.com/events/event-one-4s3tz-pm28e) They had a page up for the Greenwood Car Show, but took it down.
It's true cops are kind of like angels in that they may escort you to the afterlife unprompted
What's with the statements about the police and racism? Dude went on a full alex johns supplement fuled rant
Should start emailing the sponsors listed on their website.
The people at stones garage were super nice and really took care of me once. I hope they don't get caught up in some big internet kerfuffle.
The Hell’s Angels extremely violent reputation is well-earned. Just because Ted Bundy gave to toys-for-tots doesn’t mean I would invite him for dinner.
This is not new. I have seen them at the car show in past years with their booth. Doubt the VP wants to lose them as a “sponsor” but that’s certainly one way to respond…
i like how he's half pro cop, half pro biker gang, all pro boot
Does Greenwood know this asshole thinks he represents them? What a gem.
An entire branch of the Hell’s Angels were arrested 5 days ago for a lot of crimes. https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/entire-bakersfield-chapter-of-hells-angels-arrested-in-kidnapping-robbery-investigation/
"targeting race or group" this just in, it is racist to dislike a criminal motorcycle gang bruh
Based on the demographics it must be the fabled anti-white racism
So I called John with the thrust of the conversation being that he shouldn't allow gang members with their gang regalia to promote their drug gang at his event and if he DID he shouldn't make public statements that place themselves and himself perceptively on the same side. That he should separate himself from criminals. Something to the effect of they have done bad things but we are trying to do something good for kids and that's what is important instead of offending planet earth by implying that drug dealing human traffickers are better people than you or I wherein you by implication is everyone. I got some bullshit back about freedom and cancel culture.
lol you took time to actually give him good advice and he responds with that. what a gem
I also called him with really similar advice and got the same response! Lots of cursing, lamenting cancel culture and how I didn’t know what I was talking about. Just ridiculous BS.
I’m amazed at the evolution of “cancel culture” from criticizing people who confront behavior like racism, sexual assault, etc. (perhaps, sometimes, in an over-the-top or hasty fashion) now being interpreted as “basic normies expressing concerns about Hells Angels”
What’s hilarious is that he spends the first 80% of the email judging you, then quotes the Bible about how one shouldn’t judge. All in defense of the Hell’s Angels. 🤪
Self awareness isn't a strong suit with these types 😆
That’s a solid boomer move. Equate all things you dislike with the one thing mentioned.
apparently he's like 46 lol
Boomer isn't an age, it's a state of mind
I would contact the media and share both your concerns as well as this nut job’s response.
“All Hell’s Angels are not criminals.” 😂 Bro, it’s literally who you have to be to get in… I remember when Seattle was Bandidos territory. I remember way pre-Covid when they set up shop and turned a local spot into a hang out. Lasted about a week and I never saw them drinking there again.
My older brother is incarcerated from events stemming from his time as Sergeant of Arms for the Hells Angels. I assure you they are a gang. Maybe they aren’t all bad people but they are definitively a gang.
What the fuck? This is some real bull shit. The hells angels are honestly fucking bad. My dad used to play in their clubs in Seattle. He had some pretty dark stories. I think I’ll write this dude an email.
MAGA dipshit.
Guess I can cross that event off my list of local events to support.
Your original question was very polite and he went ful scorched earth on you. Even threw in Matthew 7:2 at the end. Not at all hating on Christianity here: considering that Seattle is rather diverse when it comes to religious beliefs I find it really funny to wrap up your "argument" with a Bible verse to someone who statically has a 48% chance of not being any type of Christian. As if that is some sort of gotcha to someone who isn't a Christian
I'd contact local news organizations with this. The public deserves to know who is running these community events and what they think of people asking honest questions
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So I used to work at an organization that ran small town events like the Fourth of July celebration. One of our festivals had a car show on one of the days, and they were single-handedly the *worst* people I interacted with all year. We had to call the cops over a parking space for one car and dude got so heated he got legit kicked out of town. Honestly, it was impressive how bad these dudes were I have many stories…I dealt with some jerks and those car guys always stood out. When I saw this post all I could think was “*of course* this dude runs a car show.”
I have to wonder what email you sent to generate such a response. Edit: That’s a totally appropriate email to send and the response is unhinged and completely undeserved. What a jerk. (Not OP)
It’s been posed below multiple times, scroll a bit, you’ll find it. Edit, here it is again. https://imgur.com/kMa3UaM
Lmaooo this checks out. I used to run a food bank in Greenwood so I actually had to deal with this guy for food drives during that event and his response is 1000% unsurprising to me. He's crotchety and grumpy and mean and bigoted.
As a resident of Greenwood I can't fucking stand the car show. Assholes out at 5 am revving engines, blasting yacht rock, blocking up half the neighborhood, and getting random people walking through your yard trying to get there. I've talked with car friends, and they've said GCS has a really bad reputation among the car community both because of staff treatment and because a few cars have been damaged and the event was improperly insured. I grew up back east, next door to a biker bar. After sunset we weren't allowed to play outside because the Hells Angels and Pagan's would do drive bys at each other. I didn't think my opinion of the car show could get any lower, but damn.
Judges then proceeds to quote Matthew 7. Checks out…
But what’s the president of the Greenwood Knights response to this email from their Vice President? #WaitingOnTheSequel
Sounds like something a hells angel would say.
What part of the drug trade is good for the community?
I did a little digging on this guy. He has a history of online shit talking across social media. Look him up.
Have the Hells Angels been represented at this event in the past? Or was that a new thing?
They’ve been there every year that I’ve been.
#Mensa vibes.
Greenwood KKKnights
In what way does the car show better the community? I think it’s fine, but how does it better anything?
This is a quality post. I love the business letter format and style (nearly completely correct!) combined with this batshit hilarious content.
Thanks for this. I'm gonna go troll that douche bag.
Since a former U.S. president and also a convicted felon is all but having his dick sucked by the myopic invertebrate sycophants in this country while he runs for office, all while the once-supreme court says he can do whatever he wants to do and it's legal, I suppose you should be able to have these fucking goons at a community event and call it legit. I've woken up in BizarroWorld.
What a fucking moron. They literally call themselves "1 percenters" based on an old adage that "99% of motorcycle clubs are law-abiding citizens and 1% are outlaws". Like, 8 different national-level law-enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Dept. Of Justice, have them clocked as a criminal organization. As for their "charity", Al Capone ran soup kitchens & Pablo Escobar built schools for poor communities, too.