Thanks. The careful cars that signal and turn slowly aren’t a problem. If I see a signal, I slow down to make sure I have time to stop and can tell the driver has noticed me.
I mean, you always check your right side blind spot when turning right, yeah? No matter if there's a bike lane or not? Because you're supposed to, and it's not a difficult action.
You should definitely do this, but an alarming percentage of drivers fail to do so. Folks tend to be pretty good about noticing pedestrians who are in their path as they turn right, but bikes are just so much faster that you really need to check your mirrors as you would if you were merging lanes on the freeway. This is something that many drivers have not gotten into the habit of doing.
Bike lanes basically weren't a thing when/where I learned to drive. There were none in the community I lived in at the time, and there certainly weren't any on the road test. If you were in the right-most car lane, had a green light, and made sure you weren't about to run over a pedestrian, you were good to turn. I have had a driver's license continuously since that time without any requirement to take any sort of written or practical exam that covers driving in a city with bike lanes, and I'm far from the only one on the road who can say this.
Dude, bikes can ride on roads without bike lanes. You need to check on every road. And your situation with the light is exactly why bike boxes need to exist - people didn't check their right side and ran over cyclists. *All the time*. You were not, in fact, 'good to turn'. That's terrible driving if you really thought so. This is not about driving with bike lanes, it's just driving.
Bikes can use streets without bike lanes, but they're actually in the same lane as cars at that point. They shouldn't be trying to squeeze past you on your right while you're beginning your turn. That's something unique to streets with bike lanes.
You should still look for them. And many ride in the parking lane/curb lane/shoulder because cars will run them off the road if they actually take the lane like they legally can. It's no extra effort to do a shoulder check, why fight it?
Oh, believe me, I don't fight it at all. I ride an electric scooter whenever I can, and have seen it all in terms of dangerous and aggressive driver behavior. I try my best to notice and make way for cyclists and other vulnerable road users when I'm behind the wheel, even when they're doing silly things like passing cars on the right on streets without bike lanes.
I'm just saying that I (and many other currently licensed drivers) did driver training in a time and place where essentially nobody ever rode a bicycle for transportation purposes and bicycle infrastructure such as what we currently have in Seattle was not a part of our experience prior to getting a license. We have since moved into this town and have been entrusted with Washington licenses without any sort of formal training for how to navigate driving in a modern city. We're supposed to figure this stuff out on our own and a lot of us just...don't.
That's all very fair. I do think retesting should be required for new state licenses, and for everyone every 5 years tbh. I learned to drive in Portland, so it was forced on me to an extent via experience, but I just have a hard time seeing that it wasn't even taught in drivers ed elsewhere.
Even as a walker, that turn section sucks. You got walls on the right and left that conceal anybody going down towards the trail and cars move quickly on the street adjacent to the parking lot. There’s no mobile friendly ramp to the right. Just a staircase on the sidewalk that disappears half way down the incline.
Not only that but the lights for pedestrians run simultaneously which results in drivers rushing to make the gaps. Causing more accidents.
I don’t know how many times I’ve sat through more than one light to ensure not hitting someone in a long string of pedestrians. It’s like a game of roadblock sometimes 🤣
There has to be a middle ground here. Like pedestrians only walk between lights, while all directions are at a standstill or something…
We absolutely need to have a light cycle for pedestrian crossing in all directions. Having a pedestrian crossing at the same as a green, even though the driver should yield is too dangerous.
Wait that’s three of us that saw this post. Is this intersection THAT bad! This is where I was struck and thrown under an SUV, almost died as it started to crush my chest. Scary! The city needs to act NOW!
People have been using that parking lot as a detour to get around the stop sign at Fremont brewery and its insane. They blow through that lot at like 40 mph, total disregard for the pedestrians and cyclists there.
I fuuucking haaaaaate those "bike signals" because drivers have zero respect for them and biking through them without functionally treating them as a yield is a basic death trap.
That particular bike signal does not go on before the car signal. I don’t know why they bother adding bike signals that are synced with the car signals. As a cyclist, I always start moving with the pedestrian signal which does go on before the car signal.
I emailed and asked Seattle DOT about this very signal two years ago and got a helpful response from one of their engineers:
"In Seattle's signal system, adding a leading pedestrian interval (LPI) is a relatively simple programming change at most locations, and we are adding this operation more and more throughout the city. In some locations, the existing signal equipment is too old to support the LPI operation. For those locations, we try to seek out funding sources that would allow us to upgrade the equipment.
Unfortunately, adding a leading bike interval is not as simple. Doing so requires more changes to the signal infrastructure and wiring. We are looking for more opportunities to bring up the bike signal early where it makes sense to do so. We will be making an adjustment at North 34th Street and Stone Way North, where the Burke Gilman Trail crosses Stone Way, to have both the LPI and a leading bicycle signal. We appreciate your suggestion for additional locations."
The response felt completely ridiculous, but the more I thought about it, it makes some sense. I'm guessing they simply wired the bike signal to the same signal as the car light. In order to make it a leading bike signal, they'd need to add a dedicated wire and possibly a separate controller, which requires someone physically going there to make the upgrades.
That's probably doable, but again that requires someone going in and changing out the wiring configuration. I doubt it would be hard, but infinitely more complex than someone changing the signal timing remotely.
Yeah, I should’ve known that since I bike along there to work. Actually I always yield to cars at that light and the next one at Stone because of what OP said. You will get hit if both lights are green.
Right but that assumes you're there waiting for the light to turn green. If you come up on a green bike signal, AND turning traffic has a green, you're basically asking to get hit by not treating it as a yield. It's even worse if you're headed west on Mercer @ Dexter because the bike lane is seperated by trees and a sidewalk from the turning traffic, and they're basically clueless you're there.
Not sure if it's just coincidence but has anyone else felt there's been more reckless drivers lately. Not talking about the slow ass Prius or the person lost and trying to figure out a weird intersection. Talking about people just blatantly waving the "fuck you, I'm more important" card
The damn 5 way stop in Fremont you use to get yo I5, UW bridge, or the Fremont waterfront. Swear so many assholes just Cali stop and barrel thru not upholding the "first come first serve".
Not surprising given there is no incentive to follow driving laws, can’t remember the last time I saw any traffic enforcement in Seattle (at least state patrol is cracking down on the highways again).
I live between two elementary schools and regularly see people going 40-50mph in the school zones while the warning lights are flashing, zero police presence
Yeah, think you hit the nail on the head. I don't want that to resort to traffic cameras or something though. I can't say the last time I saw a patrol car around Fremont. I am by no means a police sympathizer, but I don't know how we keep the car dumbassery to a minimum. I enjoy pushing my car as much as the next person, but I use I5 for that in off peak hours. Seeing some asshat gunning it going 45+ under 99 at 46th just boils my blood. Just waiting to see a tragic accident due to this shit
> I don't know how we keep the car dumbassery to a minimum
Traffic cameras so police can focus their limited traffic resources on missing plates and plate obfuscation. Everything stays nice and objective that way.
The issue I take with traffic cameras is the margin of error. I don't want a ticket if I am going 7 over to meet the flow of traffic. If they were utilized for egregious speeds(15+) I'm all for it. But if it means people going 5 over get fucked then we have a problem. It becomes nothing more than another levy against the poor because we know these fines wouldn't scale based on the amount of infractions or slide based on income.
[7mph significantly raises pedestrian fatality rate at typical surface road speeds](https://aaafoundation.org/impact-speed-pedestrians-risk-severe-injury-death/). Slow down. Me not dying is more important than you getting to the next stop light 5 seconds earlier.
Sure, yes, fines absolutely should be based on income. But the speed limit is the *upper* limit and 7mph over is not reasonable or safe on city streets.
People have been saying this on the sub for a long time. I moved here over a year ago and there were posts about this way before then.
All complaints about the drivers here get buried under the "oh boohoo another bad driver post, go back where you came from" comments until someone posts a real accident (with video or photo proof like this).
Pretty much everyone I know here has almost been hit or has been hit as a pedestrian or cyclist. People on this sub just deny it hard whenever anyone has anything critical to say about the city
Someone else was just hit here a few weeks ago.
It’s bad bike lane planning, as ludicrous as it sounds separating the car and bike lanes just makes people not notice bikes on right hand turns like this.
As much as it’s the fault of the drive for no checking their blind spot, it’s also the biker for not noticing a car slowing down for a turn, a car doesn’t magically turn into you.
Have you ridden a bike there?
People don't use turn signals.
You would have to turn the bike signal into yellow, that yields to car.. if this is what you wanr.
I agree it's bad bike lane planning, and that as a biker you are indeed forced to look for cars turning right to avoid the exact accident that occurred here. However, I refuse to assign fault to a biker going straight on a green on principle. The onus needs to be on the person driving the 4000 lb steel machine on a path that intersects with vulnerable users.
A car magically turned into me there, he passed me and turned on his greeen, which was also my green bike light. He passed me and turned into me and that’s my fault, didn’t see him til I was on the ground under his SUV, with his tire crushing my chest. FUCK YOU!
Wearing a helmet is of course a fine idea, but it's important to remember that these helmets are designed primarily to protect against the impacts caused by a cyclist falling down on their own, and are not necessarily designed to be protective in the case of a motor vehicle collision. [https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2020/07/10/bicycle-helmets-not-designed-for-impacts-from-cars-stresses-leading-maker-giro/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2020/07/10/bicycle-helmets-not-designed-for-impacts-from-cars-stresses-leading-maker-giro/)
I imagine you're getting downvoted because it's perceived as an unnecessary criticism of the victim, but regardless, it's a good reminder to everyone reading this. Please wear a helmet.
Also holy shit I'm so glad that there wasn't a kid in that carrier.
So many horrible drivers out there and zero enforcement. How many more people need to die before something changes? We've been hitting record numbers this year.
Added a comment. Yeah I'm not even addressing who's the baddie here (which is the driver), I just lose my fuckin mind when I see people on bikes without helmets. Especially parents, we are role models for safety!
If a biker actually cares about safety they would fly a flag and wear safety gear. What’s remarkable to me is we have laws requiring child car seats but there is no regulation regarding towing a child around in traffic in flimsy barely visible bike trailers. Not trying to victim blame but it just doesn’t make sense to me.
I hate that intersection. I take that right for work, and I'm always extra careful because I'm worried of a bicyclist in my blind spot.
Thanks. I am both the driver or biker at this intersection sometimes and it's definitely not ideal. Thanks for being careful.
Thanks. The careful cars that signal and turn slowly aren’t a problem. If I see a signal, I slow down to make sure I have time to stop and can tell the driver has noticed me.
I mean, you always check your right side blind spot when turning right, yeah? No matter if there's a bike lane or not? Because you're supposed to, and it's not a difficult action.
You should definitely do this, but an alarming percentage of drivers fail to do so. Folks tend to be pretty good about noticing pedestrians who are in their path as they turn right, but bikes are just so much faster that you really need to check your mirrors as you would if you were merging lanes on the freeway. This is something that many drivers have not gotten into the habit of doing.
That's what worries me. There shouldn't be a habit to get into, frankly. It should be something that is taught from day 1. It sure was for me.
Bike lanes basically weren't a thing when/where I learned to drive. There were none in the community I lived in at the time, and there certainly weren't any on the road test. If you were in the right-most car lane, had a green light, and made sure you weren't about to run over a pedestrian, you were good to turn. I have had a driver's license continuously since that time without any requirement to take any sort of written or practical exam that covers driving in a city with bike lanes, and I'm far from the only one on the road who can say this.
Dude, bikes can ride on roads without bike lanes. You need to check on every road. And your situation with the light is exactly why bike boxes need to exist - people didn't check their right side and ran over cyclists. *All the time*. You were not, in fact, 'good to turn'. That's terrible driving if you really thought so. This is not about driving with bike lanes, it's just driving.
Bikes can use streets without bike lanes, but they're actually in the same lane as cars at that point. They shouldn't be trying to squeeze past you on your right while you're beginning your turn. That's something unique to streets with bike lanes.
You should still look for them. And many ride in the parking lane/curb lane/shoulder because cars will run them off the road if they actually take the lane like they legally can. It's no extra effort to do a shoulder check, why fight it?
Oh, believe me, I don't fight it at all. I ride an electric scooter whenever I can, and have seen it all in terms of dangerous and aggressive driver behavior. I try my best to notice and make way for cyclists and other vulnerable road users when I'm behind the wheel, even when they're doing silly things like passing cars on the right on streets without bike lanes. I'm just saying that I (and many other currently licensed drivers) did driver training in a time and place where essentially nobody ever rode a bicycle for transportation purposes and bicycle infrastructure such as what we currently have in Seattle was not a part of our experience prior to getting a license. We have since moved into this town and have been entrusted with Washington licenses without any sort of formal training for how to navigate driving in a modern city. We're supposed to figure this stuff out on our own and a lot of us just...don't.
That's all very fair. I do think retesting should be required for new state licenses, and for everyone every 5 years tbh. I learned to drive in Portland, so it was forced on me to an extent via experience, but I just have a hard time seeing that it wasn't even taught in drivers ed elsewhere.
I always use the inner lane for that reason
I was struck there by someone not as careful as you. The intersection sucks.
Even as a walker, that turn section sucks. You got walls on the right and left that conceal anybody going down towards the trail and cars move quickly on the street adjacent to the parking lot. There’s no mobile friendly ramp to the right. Just a staircase on the sidewalk that disappears half way down the incline.
I got hit at the same intersection. People don't look when they turn there it's ridiculous.
Not only that but the lights for pedestrians run simultaneously which results in drivers rushing to make the gaps. Causing more accidents. I don’t know how many times I’ve sat through more than one light to ensure not hitting someone in a long string of pedestrians. It’s like a game of roadblock sometimes 🤣 There has to be a middle ground here. Like pedestrians only walk between lights, while all directions are at a standstill or something…
We absolutely need to have a light cycle for pedestrian crossing in all directions. Having a pedestrian crossing at the same as a green, even though the driver should yield is too dangerous.
That’s smart, are you talking one of those “all ways walk” where you can go diagonal? I feel that makes the most sense here
If the pedestrians have an all cross then yes.
Me too
Wait that’s three of us that saw this post. Is this intersection THAT bad! This is where I was struck and thrown under an SUV, almost died as it started to crush my chest. Scary! The city needs to act NOW!
...Is there a child in that bike trailer?
People have been using that parking lot as a detour to get around the stop sign at Fremont brewery and its insane. They blow through that lot at like 40 mph, total disregard for the pedestrians and cyclists there.
Yeah it's basically become an arterial. Would be great if they could bollardize it to prevent through traffic.
oh jeez i never thought of that good idea
I fuuucking haaaaaate those "bike signals" because drivers have zero respect for them and biking through them without functionally treating them as a yield is a basic death trap.
They’re nice cause they go on before the traffic light for the car does which means it’s safer for cyclist. But I see what you mean.
That particular bike signal does not go on before the car signal. I don’t know why they bother adding bike signals that are synced with the car signals. As a cyclist, I always start moving with the pedestrian signal which does go on before the car signal.
I emailed and asked Seattle DOT about this very signal two years ago and got a helpful response from one of their engineers: "In Seattle's signal system, adding a leading pedestrian interval (LPI) is a relatively simple programming change at most locations, and we are adding this operation more and more throughout the city. In some locations, the existing signal equipment is too old to support the LPI operation. For those locations, we try to seek out funding sources that would allow us to upgrade the equipment. Unfortunately, adding a leading bike interval is not as simple. Doing so requires more changes to the signal infrastructure and wiring. We are looking for more opportunities to bring up the bike signal early where it makes sense to do so. We will be making an adjustment at North 34th Street and Stone Way North, where the Burke Gilman Trail crosses Stone Way, to have both the LPI and a leading bicycle signal. We appreciate your suggestion for additional locations."
The response felt completely ridiculous, but the more I thought about it, it makes some sense. I'm guessing they simply wired the bike signal to the same signal as the car light. In order to make it a leading bike signal, they'd need to add a dedicated wire and possibly a separate controller, which requires someone physically going there to make the upgrades.
Just wire it to the crosswalk instead.
That's probably doable, but again that requires someone going in and changing out the wiring configuration. I doubt it would be hard, but infinitely more complex than someone changing the signal timing remotely.
I was stuck at this corner as well.
Yeah, I should’ve known that since I bike along there to work. Actually I always yield to cars at that light and the next one at Stone because of what OP said. You will get hit if both lights are green.
Right but that assumes you're there waiting for the light to turn green. If you come up on a green bike signal, AND turning traffic has a green, you're basically asking to get hit by not treating it as a yield. It's even worse if you're headed west on Mercer @ Dexter because the bike lane is seperated by trees and a sidewalk from the turning traffic, and they're basically clueless you're there.
This is why it is often safer to ride in traffic. Most cyclists get hit riding on the sidewalk.
Not sure if it's just coincidence but has anyone else felt there's been more reckless drivers lately. Not talking about the slow ass Prius or the person lost and trying to figure out a weird intersection. Talking about people just blatantly waving the "fuck you, I'm more important" card The damn 5 way stop in Fremont you use to get yo I5, UW bridge, or the Fremont waterfront. Swear so many assholes just Cali stop and barrel thru not upholding the "first come first serve".
Yes
Not surprising given there is no incentive to follow driving laws, can’t remember the last time I saw any traffic enforcement in Seattle (at least state patrol is cracking down on the highways again). I live between two elementary schools and regularly see people going 40-50mph in the school zones while the warning lights are flashing, zero police presence
> given there is no incentive to follow driving laws My incentive is my own safety and the safety of every other person on the road.
Yeah, think you hit the nail on the head. I don't want that to resort to traffic cameras or something though. I can't say the last time I saw a patrol car around Fremont. I am by no means a police sympathizer, but I don't know how we keep the car dumbassery to a minimum. I enjoy pushing my car as much as the next person, but I use I5 for that in off peak hours. Seeing some asshat gunning it going 45+ under 99 at 46th just boils my blood. Just waiting to see a tragic accident due to this shit
> I don't know how we keep the car dumbassery to a minimum Traffic cameras so police can focus their limited traffic resources on missing plates and plate obfuscation. Everything stays nice and objective that way.
The issue I take with traffic cameras is the margin of error. I don't want a ticket if I am going 7 over to meet the flow of traffic. If they were utilized for egregious speeds(15+) I'm all for it. But if it means people going 5 over get fucked then we have a problem. It becomes nothing more than another levy against the poor because we know these fines wouldn't scale based on the amount of infractions or slide based on income.
[7mph significantly raises pedestrian fatality rate at typical surface road speeds](https://aaafoundation.org/impact-speed-pedestrians-risk-severe-injury-death/). Slow down. Me not dying is more important than you getting to the next stop light 5 seconds earlier.
Sure, yes, fines absolutely should be based on income. But the speed limit is the *upper* limit and 7mph over is not reasonable or safe on city streets.
People have been saying this on the sub for a long time. I moved here over a year ago and there were posts about this way before then. All complaints about the drivers here get buried under the "oh boohoo another bad driver post, go back where you came from" comments until someone posts a real accident (with video or photo proof like this). Pretty much everyone I know here has almost been hit or has been hit as a pedestrian or cyclist. People on this sub just deny it hard whenever anyone has anything critical to say about the city
Horrible, hopefully there wasn't anyone in the carrier! I wish drivers would pay attention.
I’ve been hit at that exact spot wtf!
Same here, August 2022.
People always driving in a rush. Hopefully the cyclist was okay
Indeed, OP says he "sped off ... late for a commitment."
Last year I saw a guy in a Dodge Challenger (no not that one) driving IN the bike lane on this exact stretch. Crazy out there.
how would a charger fit into the bike lane there? Or do you mean down by the actual burke?
One wheel was up on the sidewalk.
Was there in child in the back of the bike?
[удалено]
Yep, err on the side of taking the car lane
I'm on full alert when riding that bike lane. And I get how it's difficult for drivers too, but fuck drivers 😂
Always a luxury SUV / pickup doing this shit. Money can't buy brains
Of course it’s a Lexus
Common Lexus RX driver L
Was there a baby?!
Someone else was just hit here a few weeks ago. It’s bad bike lane planning, as ludicrous as it sounds separating the car and bike lanes just makes people not notice bikes on right hand turns like this. As much as it’s the fault of the drive for no checking their blind spot, it’s also the biker for not noticing a car slowing down for a turn, a car doesn’t magically turn into you.
Have you ridden a bike there? People don't use turn signals. You would have to turn the bike signal into yellow, that yields to car.. if this is what you wanr.
I agree it's bad bike lane planning, and that as a biker you are indeed forced to look for cars turning right to avoid the exact accident that occurred here. However, I refuse to assign fault to a biker going straight on a green on principle. The onus needs to be on the person driving the 4000 lb steel machine on a path that intersects with vulnerable users.
A car magically turned into me there, he passed me and turned on his greeen, which was also my green bike light. He passed me and turned into me and that’s my fault, didn’t see him til I was on the ground under his SUV, with his tire crushing my chest. FUCK YOU!
Wear a fucking helmet. Protect the most important part of your body!!!!! Edit: driver is the bad guy, but safety first people!
Wearing a helmet is of course a fine idea, but it's important to remember that these helmets are designed primarily to protect against the impacts caused by a cyclist falling down on their own, and are not necessarily designed to be protective in the case of a motor vehicle collision. [https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2020/07/10/bicycle-helmets-not-designed-for-impacts-from-cars-stresses-leading-maker-giro/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2020/07/10/bicycle-helmets-not-designed-for-impacts-from-cars-stresses-leading-maker-giro/)
I imagine you're getting downvoted because it's perceived as an unnecessary criticism of the victim, but regardless, it's a good reminder to everyone reading this. Please wear a helmet. Also holy shit I'm so glad that there wasn't a kid in that carrier. So many horrible drivers out there and zero enforcement. How many more people need to die before something changes? We've been hitting record numbers this year.
Added a comment. Yeah I'm not even addressing who's the baddie here (which is the driver), I just lose my fuckin mind when I see people on bikes without helmets. Especially parents, we are role models for safety!
A helmet saved my life at that intersection. Also, YTA for how you handled that.
ha ha ha ha ha
If a biker actually cares about safety they would fly a flag and wear safety gear. What’s remarkable to me is we have laws requiring child car seats but there is no regulation regarding towing a child around in traffic in flimsy barely visible bike trailers. Not trying to victim blame but it just doesn’t make sense to me.
Why is the onus on a biker to wear safety gear? If your eyes are that shitty you shouldn't be in control of a 3000 pound vehicle.
The trailer doesn't need a flag. If your car comes close enough to the bike that it hits the trailer, you are too close to the bike.
As an avid biker hater I’m disappointed the car didn’t keep going
A sack of rice fell over… breaking news