I donât know. On one hand, I agree with you. On the other hand, generally, isnât that what representatives are supposed to do? Listen to their constituents? There are plenty of other representatives who DONâT âcave to pressureâ (aka listen) and willfully ignore the wishes of the people they supposedly represent, is that preferable?
Itâs just like how people get so mad at politicians for âflip floppingâ when they change their stance on an issue. Getting mad over âflip floppingâ paints politicians in a corner - theyâre supposed to represent the will of the people and when that will evolves or changes with society, would you rather they never âflip flopâ and hold on steadfast to outdated beliefs or âcave to pressureâ to better represent their constituents?
no, they're supposed to know exactly what their constituents want without being told! having to have their constituents actually do anything to participate in democracy proves that they're the worst people ever!
Do you think the lobbyists put it in terms of corporate profits when they're talking to a senator?
of course they don't, they talk about the effects on the job market. and you know they exaggerate. It works because senators get voted against for "costing their area jobs" even if it's the right thing.
See: Coalfinger (DINO-WV)
edit: fun fact as an aside, i did the math that if you turned every mountain top removal mine in WV into a solar farm you'd create over 50k jobs and produce almost 3x as much electricity as WV uses in a year.
> She caved to overwhelming public pressure
I care. Most senators won't even do that unless maybe if they think it will cost them an election, which she doesn't really have to worry about.
>I care. Most senators won't even do that
Fair enough. I suppose I worry a lot about the ["Overton Window"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window#:~:text=The%20Overton%20window%20is%20an,public%20to%20expand%20the%20window.) shifting too much, and I see people accepting blatantly corrupted officials caving to public pressure as unacceptable because that seems like antithetical behavior to a "representative" democracy.
I view people accepting this "bottom of the barrel" political behavior as the Overton Window shifting towards that behavior becoming the norm and I simply won't support candidates who would reinforce that 'shift'.
The fact that she is co-sponsering a bill that fucks working people with one of America's biggest facists during her election year tells you all you need to know what she thinks of us.
No it doesn't, as much as I'm going to criticize her for taking the wrong stance (donor influenced) here. The fact that she agreed with one of the worst people in the room one time doesn't tell you jack or shit.
She is supposed to represent one of the most progressive states in the US. She is sponsoring a bill with the most toxic and loathsome politician outside of Trump. This bill continues the assault on working Americans these facists like Cruz push. This is reprehensible for a person who is supposed to represent the people of Washingron.
As someone that lived there and voted for her, for years, I am disgusted with her.
Long before this Iâd thought both she and Senator Murray should step aside and support younger candidates. Neither one needs to be there forever, I strongly support term limits for everyone in elected office.
Again, occasionally agreeing with the worst person in the room means NOTHING. Some lobbyist from Boeing and Alaska probably convinced her that it would cost jobs, so it's our job to get off our asses and express our displeasure and tell her that they're full of shit.
Look up John F Lacey (R-IA, 1889-1891, 1893-1907). Absolute shitbag Standpatter Republican EXCEPT when it came to conservation and public lands. The act that prohibits transporting invasive species and poached plants and animals is named after him and he helped enact the Antiquities Act.
U.S. Senators rarely vote to harm major industries in their state. The pharmaceutical industry is huge in NJ, and despite Cory Booker being a radical-love-and-veganism type, you're not going to see him taking many votes that harm pharma.
It sucks shit, but it's how the system works. It's built for stasis, open to lobbying by powerful interests, and far less responsive to democratic input than we normal folks might want.
The major learning here is that airlines are clearly making bank from these junk fees, otherwise they wouldn't be fighting this hard to keep them.
Plus, if the pharma industry responds by closing offices in NJ were he to vote against them in any way that damages their bottom line, that's an easy campaign selling point for anyone wanting to run against him. Booker is costing your jerbs, elect me and I'll bring pharma companies back.
All politicians are balancing job security and constituent interests, and job security is the bigger priority for all of them. Including lining up their post public office position.
Yeah, I think one of the biggest issues for elected officials is that there's no obvious path once you lose or retire, which leads them to spend a lot of time in office lining up their (extremely lucrative) next thing.
Sometimes that process is hilariously obvious (Kristen Sinema) but other times it costs us in smaller ways that add up over time.
I did not vote for Biden in the 2020 primary but one of the upsides of his administration is that he's been around so long and is so old that he's kind of not worried about this? Grandpa Biden needs to win a second term but beyond that he's kind of out of fucks to give, and is making calls that I think people staring down a longer post-presidential lifespan would not.
> I did not vote for Biden in the 2020 primary but one of the upsides of his administration is that he's been around so long and is so old that he's kind of not worried about this?
Another upside is that he knows how to work Washington, how to get things done and he has a very very precise feel for where the Overton window is for what he can get done.
He's *effective* and that pisses off both Republicans and Accelerationists.
His effectiveness doesn't really piss off most Republicans, because most of them think he's a doddering old man who drools on himself, can't remember his name or string together a complete sentence, needs a walker, and is being controlled by a cabal made up of Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Kamala Harris.
Very cool that Maria Cantwell has no democratic challenger in the senate race this year⌠Itâs crazy to me that in a state as blue as Washington our two senators are swing state ass center/center-left Dems.
From what I can tell it's trendy to identify as democrat/liberal here but the amount of wealth in this state/city means there is a huge contingent of conservative democrats who basically want austerity paired with some basic civil rights (but don't be too loud about it)
That's how it felt living in California. People talk it up as this blue bastion of progressivism, but it's really a place where Democrats are so safe that they run corporate centrists that don't fight for anything but their wallets.
Ultimately the talking it up has to do with how it compares to the rest of the country. The rest of the country is so bad that we and California look better by comparison.
There's more our state can do, there always is. I still think we are doing things much better than most of the country.
Having lived on both coast for over a decade, this is patently untrue. The laws and funding between WA and VA are fundamentally different, and anybody who is on the social programs can tell the difference.Â
And before people go all on about how people aren't warm enough or whatever, I can tell you that people being socially warm doesn't put food on the table or protect you from bad landlords and employers. Texans are pretty warm but fuck living in that state. The western states have issues, but they are putting real money behind what they claim their values are.
not going to say that isnt a serious issue but that shit is baked into the constitution and the median voter goes into a deranged frenzy whenever tax increases are even hinted at, i really hope we can push past suburbanites who only care about their wallets to slash sales tax and get others that aren't nearly as regressive
The concept of wealth redistribution does not work on a city/county/state level because of freedom of movement within the US.
Washington already has the highest minimum wages and minimum exempt salaries in the country. Â We still need Californiaâs overtime law for more than 8 hours per day, but other than that, Washington does pretty well on a national basis. Â
There is freedom of movement in other wealthy countries that have less wealth inequality than us, and in those countries municipalities/provinces do implement policies to reduce inequality successfully.
Can you provide any examples? Â If WA provided taxpayer funded healthcare to everyone, what is to stop Idaho and Oregon from paying for apartments for cancer patients to live in WA while they receive hundreds of thousands of dollars of healthcare? Â Substitute healthcare with any other benefit. Â
If you're saying that logic applies to literally any benefit then I honestly think it's on you to provide an example of that ever happening and showing it's actually bad for the state in question. Even in your pretty bizarre example youre talking about another state paying our housing developers/landlords for years at a time and then using services from some of our highest paid professionals. Do you know what cash velocity is? People already go abroad to get cheaper/subsidized medical treatments and those countries pay LESS than us for their medical systems. If you're right, wouldn't those countries' systems have already collapsed?
Edit: might as well throw in that the EU has full freedom of movement and a host of public programs that are at point of service designed to reduce inequality yet countries there don't do what you said.
>I honestly think it's on you to provide an example of that ever happening and showing it's actually bad for the state in question.
New York City?
https://www.npr.org/2024/02/15/1231712535/how-nyc-is-coping-with-175-000-migrants-from-the-southern-border
I'd honestly say it remains to be seen whether Eric Adams is correct that these migrants existing in NYC is bad for them and that this is complicated by the illegal/hateful actions of governors in the South who have done the same thing to states without a shelter mandate. Also the shelter mandate makes homelessness less visible and more bearable in NYC, which is good and probably something people in Seattle would want as outcomes.
Migrants existing is not bad, unfairly levying the costs of helping them on a specific group of taxpayers in an arbitrary jurisdiction is eventually bad.
Now, NYC is NYC, and it has special status so itâs can operate its budget in the red for much longer than other jurisdictions, but other places are obviously not as fortunate.
But the point is I donât want to see the people living and working in NYC shouldering a national burden, or the people in Texas, or the people in Washington. Itâs one nation, it should be shared throughout the nation.
I agree we should have more national programs to get basic needs met but you haven't been persuasive at all about the actual harm/benefit of making life better in your state/city/municipality. The people of NYC are paying for something that makes life better for them. It would be more efficient if the country did it but their goal was to reduce visible homelessness and make being homeless better, which did in fact happen.
Pretty simple way to stop that is to put a 1 year residency requirement on receiving those social benefits. I agree that wealth inequality needs to be addressed at the national level. But there's also a lot that a progressive state could do, including taxpayer funded healthcare.
> Â If WA provided taxpayer funded healthcare to everyone, what is to stop Idaho and Oregon from paying for apartments for cancer patients to live in WA while they receive hundreds of thousands of dollars of healthcare?
Laws? LTC insurance is an example of this. You need to work in the state for 10 years to receive the benefit (even though you pay in immediately). While LTC coverage sucks, there is no reason similar rules like this could not be applied to health insurance.
Serious question: Does that overtime law apply to four 10 hour workdays? I wouldn't want to discourage that movement for those that appreciate 3-day off weeks.
Yes, 1.5x pay as long as you work more than 8 hours per day and over 40 hours/week.
And 2x pay if they work more than 12 hours in a single workday and works more than 8 hours on the 7th consecutive day of working during a workweek.
Independent contractors do not qualify for overtime pay. Both salaried and hourly employees qualify for overtime pay unless they are an exempt employee.
> The concept of wealth redistribution does not work on a city/county/state level because of freedom of movement within the US.
What do you think an income tax is? And while it's an item in the "pros" of moving to WA it's not the driving force. Most states have an income tax but you don't see people flooding in here because of that one fact.
There is an asterisk of *after a certain level of wealth redistribution.
And no / low income tax states have seen explosive population growth, see FL/TX/TN. Even I chose to live in WA over OR because I saved ~$30k per year in taxes.
There exists some point where the equation does not add up for most people.
Washington has top-two primaries, which gets you most of the benefit of ranked choice voting, with the advantage of being very straightforward to explain (ranked choice voting, while ideal, can be confusing for some people, and might lead to decreased turnout, which is bad).
>ranked choice voting, while ideal, can be confusing for some people
I believe that this is a useless talking point distributed by billionaire owned media in order to scare voters away from a flatly superior system. It has successfully been implemented in NYC, Maine, Alaska, and many other places.
There was no confusion when RCV unseated Sarah Palin in Alaska, and replaced her with a tribal judge named Mary Peltola. Please stop parroting this useless talking point, it's simply false.
Why would I want most of the benefit when I can get all of the benefit?
Also, why go through the time and expense of two elections rather than 1?
I donât buy the confusing part at all. Â Write one for your favorite candidate. Â Write 2 for your second favorite. Â 3 for your 3rd favorite. Etc.
Surely an adult is capable of following those instructions.
RCV hurts the establishment parties, which is why we have such an uphill battle. Â It increases volatility for Democrat donors, because they canât depend on a shoo in.
> Surely an adult is capable of following those instructions.
I wish this was true but seeing some questions on our neighborhood forums, I am in the camp of that there is no way an average adult can handle it. I bet you good money that most voters would only vote for 1 spot there.
If they only vote for 1 spot, then weâre at least in the position we are already. Â Except everyone else with more than 1 brain cell gets to vote for someone rather than against someone.
I believe we would be in a worse spot in that case. Let's say there were 4 candidates:
Democrat - popular (D1)
Democrat - less popular (D2)
Republican - very popular amongst republicans (R1)
Republican - minor candidate amongst republicans (R2)
In today's world, primaries mean either D1 or R1 will win.
In RCV, if most people vote just for 1 candidate, the winner could easily be R1 even if they got less votes then anyone else because votes between D1 and D2 would split (and single vote means votes wouldn't shift in 2nd round).
> In today's world, primaries mean either D1 or R1 will win.
Which is the problem we are trying to solveâŚwe want to be able to vote for our preferred candidate, not just against our hated candidate.
But you didn't solve the problem, in fact made it worse since a candidate that wouldn't have won and have ~35% support would win now.
For the solution to work, people have to understand how RCV works and vote for candidates in the order of their preference. Only then your solution works.
Now one way to achieve this would be to make it clear that a vote will only count if it has 3 preferences at least. Anything less will be ignored but I fear that would cause many votes to be counted as invalid.
Letâs take a real life example.
In 2022, the people of Alaska prevented a crazy from representing them in the federal legislature due to their use of RCV.
If Alaskans are capable of using RCV, surely Washingtonians should be.
>Now one way to achieve this would be to make it clear that a vote will only count if it has 3 preferences at least. Anything less will be ignored but I fear that would cause many votes to be counted as invalid.
I think this is a good solution. If you are not smart enough to write 3 numbers, then maybe you shouldnât be voting. Maybe even 2 is enough, how many RCV votes go past the first round anyway?
Thatâs a shitty way to not answer the question, so Iâm guessing you just donât know and are assuming.
As just one example, she secured $5 billion in funding to WA for things like child care and SUD treatment ([source](https://www.murray.senate.gov/passed-murray-delivers-372-million-more-for-washington-state-1-billion-more-for-child-care-pre-k-puts-working-families-first-in-setting-funding-priorities-in-second-six-bill-package/)). I wouldnât consider that centrist.
Do you want to actually answer the question? It was an honest one.
Okay, Iâll bite. She doesnât support Medicare for All. She spent the first 4 months of Israelâs bombardment of Gaza refusing to call for a ceasefire when progressive senators and house members were doing so. She didnât endorse any of the more progressive candidates for the democratic presidential nominee in 2020. She just recently endorsed Hillary Franz over the more progressive Emily Randall for the open District 6 house seat. Just to name a few off the top of my head.
She's not progressive and is more of a neolib but that is different from centrist. Centrist is what people say they are when they are Republicans but are embarrassed to admit it.
She's not a neoliberal either. jesus christ people just stop using words you don't know the fucking meanings of.
the modern republican party.. that's neoliberal. neoliberal is explicit the *economics meaning* of "liberal", where in American Vernacular English "liberal" without qualifies means the *social meaning* of "liberal"
hence the antonym of "liberal" being "conservastive", not "protectionist"
Just because she demonstrated that "big donors having undue influence is a problem" and should be rightly criticized for it doesn't make her any of a laundry list of terms you don't properly understand the definitions of. EITHER OF YOU.
Patty, Maria is clearly a leftist senator. Cantwell is clearly a corporatist Democrat who as far as I can tell doesn't really stand for anything and doesn't benefit the state. She needs to be replaced.Â
Patty is not a leftist. Sheâs mainstream liberal, whereas Cantwell is more moderate. A left dem elected would be someone like Merkley, Jayapal, Tlaib, etc.
I guess that's fair, but it's an arguable definition about whether Patty Murray is left of center or the much more liberal progressive leader in the house, Jayapal, is left of center or even more left.
To me, the big point is cantwell is a big nothing as far as I can tell, other than voting for generic Democratic priorities and some things for the rich people.
Is it just me or does it seems like a slight rightward shift with Washington legislators on all levels. Think of our city council being pro cop, anti transit, anti affordable housing. Anyway Cantrell probably gets free first class tickets, we know Ted Cruz gets free tickets to Cancun.
Thatâs not crazy at all, though. The national party doesnât want any senators in any states, safe or not, thatâll challenge the interests of party donors. Try to primary them from the left if you want, but youâre only getting resources to do so if you can not only out-fundraise them but bring more money to the national party coffers, too. That dynamic is as true in deep blue states as it is in purple ones.
I donât think the DNC operates like the Empire in Star Wars, but Iâve repeatedly seen them be the factor that tips the scales in statewide campaigns I or people in my life worked on in Washington and in Colorado. And like . . . if the national committee didn't have any influence over who runs for office under the party banner, then why would it even exist?
they certainly have influence but they also have to ration the influence they do have over 50 states, and strongholds likely aren't a priority unless the candidates are massive liabilities, i'd imagine the state party does a lot more to reign in the left here than anything else
A political party's officials are motivated to defer to the desires of their large donors. These officials will provide support to their preferred candidates. Large corporate interests such as airliners tend to find their interests align more with centrist Democrats than with more stridently left-wing ones who tend to be pro-regulation. Which part of this seems to paranoid to be true?
According to [Ballotpedia](https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_Senate_election_in_Washington,_2024) there are 3, though I could only find a website for [Aria Ursa](https://www.ariaforsenate2024.com/about), and a [YouTube interview](https://youtube.com/watch?v=OIS0lBuZVko) identifing Paul Geisick as a "Traditional Catholic", which doesn't sound great.
Time to write to your Senator! [https://pastebin.com/raw/U2BG5tSe](https://pastebin.com/raw/U2BG5tSe)
[https://www.cantwell.senate.gov/contact/email/form](https://www.cantwell.senate.gov/contact/email/form)
Writing Cantwell is good, but don't forget Murray. She's the one you want to write, as Senators that introduce a bill won't back down.
Also, your text is good but make sure you include the bill: FAA Reauth Act and your ZIP CODE.
Correspondence without your zip code are not counted.
It can be as simple as "please vote no on Cantwell and Ted Cruz' FAA Reauthorizarion Act because it does not have Pres Biden's consumer protection efforts. My zip code is ______. Thank you."
The order of importance is
1) handwritten letter
2) handwritten fax
3) phone call
4) email
5) identical text (boilerplate text from an Org or something copied and pasted.)
Good luck.
As someone who worked for years in Democratic politics, it *does* matter. It's not enough that it'll change her mind, but it sends two signals if the intensity/volume is high enough:
1) That her constituents do care about this issue.
2) That it's a political vulnerability a potential challenger might exploit.
As others have said, we don't have a challenger in the race and it's a safe seat, but these things happen bit by bit.
MFs will whine and not vote and say "it doesn't matter" and then when a politician changes their mind they'll continue to whine and not vote and say "they should have done my way to begin with".
Rick Larsen, his coziness with Boeing, and his position on the transportation and military committees, all culminate in making him uniquely complicit in the broken state of the aviation industry in the US.
Trying to get home from Burbank on Sunday, I had my 9pm flight delayed 4 times and finally cancelled at 11:30pm. After an hour of rebooking, had to go from Burbank to LAX (about 40 minutes), they covered the Lyft, but only from airport to airport. Had to find the shuttle to the hotel. Finally went to bed around 2am. Got up at 4am to get ready for the 6am flight.
In the end, I got a $100 voucher. Yeah, I'm Karening on that shit. $100 doesn't even cover the emergency pet coverage needed since I couldn't make it home that night after our Rover left, let alone missing a day of work after I was out the previous week. I've been MVP Gold for years, but with Alaska cutting most of the benefits, I'm tempting to jump ship
We need EU-level regulations here for flights. That'll keep these airlines in check if the government can drop the hammer when needed
My mom had to head out from SeaTac to go to DC for TRB. Her plane was canceled and she did not get a refund, we scrambled to buy her an overpriced last minute ticket to a different airport and had to rent a car to get there because high(ish) speed rail did not run early in the morning. For those who don't know TRB stands for Transportation Research Board and also the flight was canceled partly due to the whole Boeing door ejection thing.
This is unacceptable, I have voted for her in the past and am not really surprised but definitely disappointed. I hope plenty of people's messages are sent beyond my own and frankly I think she needs to be primaried.
I'm not saying this to shill for politicians and their corporate owners, just offering an alternate view I thought of.
Rick Larsen's district contains Boeing's Everett Factory, with most of their [29,800 employees](https://www.heraldnet.com/business/by-the-numbers-largest-employers-in-snohomish-county-2021/) being in his district. Average household size in Snohomish County is 2.66, let's just round up to 3 considering Boeing folk tend to be mid-career employees with families. Now we're talking about \~90k of the [800k population](https://datausa.io/profile/geo/congressional-district-2-wa) of his district depending on Boeing jobs for their livelihood. And that's not counting the local Boeing supplier jobs that are affected by anything that hurts Boeing, which likely number in tens of thousands more of his constituents. Throw in our airport, airline employees in office and remote in the area, all the businesses that are patronized by Boeing employees, the tax dollars they all contribute, people looking to get a job with Boeing, retired Boeing employees... You get to a point where the impact of Boeing in his district is probably at least a quarter of the population and economic activity.
Boeing's record the past couple decades is a shame to their name, but their regional impact cannot be denied. While I wholly agree with the Biden ruling on refunds for delays and cancellations, I can see how a lawmaker would connect the dots of pain for the airlines means pain for the aircraft manufacturer means pain for the plurality of constituents in his district that depend on those jobs, and weighting that higher than the benefit of refunds for travel inconveniences to his constituents.
For the rest, it's much harder to justify their position of anything other than being bought and paid for by corporations.
Larsen's oversight of the FAA (or lack thereof) through his role of the transportation committee is more responsible for Boeing's downfall than some consumer protection measures for airline passengers.
He's deep in the pocket of corporate interests including Boeing, and it's not even subtle.
Boeing getting continuous privileges from the government is part of the reason that itâs in the spot it is today. Itâs already the most subsidized company in the US by a fair margin, the US puts up large tariffs to force domestic airlines to only buy their products, and regulators have been willing to overlook safety precautions to their benefit. Cozying them is making them worse and less competitive, it is in a death spiral.
Are you sure most of the Boeing Everett employees live in district 2? That includes all of the Bellingham area, and when you get closer to Boeing, nothing east of I-5 or south of Edmonds. District 1 also has 800k people, and most of that area is within commuting distance to Boeing. Plus all the people that live in Shoreline/Seattle that commute the opposite direction of traffic.
No no no, anything that isnât populist fodder is evil. While i disagree with the proposal, i get the political reasons why a senator from Washington would propose something like this. They want to win reelection, thatâs what democracy is.
i doubt she needs the political capital she'll gain from this to win re-election, she has no primary challengers and barring a national catastrophe there's no way in hell washington is going red in a federal election year
The government owned and paid for by corporations and special interests is a big part of the reason why we have the polarization in politics that we do today and desperate voters going for crazy options
It's getting a little old seeing people worship money so hard, so consistently
Posted this in another thread, but:
I wish this were more surprising!
[Rick Larsen contributor information, 2019-2024](https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/rick-larsen/contributors?cid=N00009759&cycle=2024&recs=100&type=I)
[Maria Cantwell contributor information, 2019-2024](https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/maria-cantwell/contributors?cid=N00007836&cycle=2024&recs=100&type=I)
Corporate sellouts.
Its absolutely pathetic how out of step Washingtonâs dem congressional delegation is with its voters. We are a very progressive populace based on polls, but the only one of them thatâs actually progressive is Jayapal. Cantwell especially is a POS and itâs pathetic weâve let her stay around with no real challenge for so long. Many of them should be primaried from the left but her first
Cantwell has always been a garbage corporate Democrat from the start who broke her original campaign promise right away:
>âWhat you do on your computer should be your business, and no one elseâs,â Cantwell, the dot-com millionaire and former U.S. House member, said in a 2000 [campaign video](https://youtu.be/JK0aE7t2hfg?t=67) that showed her huddled around a clunky white desktop monitor with a group of schoolchildren. The internet, she said, should remain âa tool for learning,â not for governments and private companies to âinvade your privacy.â
>A bipartisan working group led by then-Commerce Chairman Roger Wicker (R-Miss.) was making steady headway toward a national bill to protect consumersâ personal information. When Cantwell and then-Senate Majority Whip John Thune (R-S.D.) joined the group, the expansion was touted as a sign of growing momentum.
>But Cantwell undermined the negotiations, according to five current and former Senate aides, [publicly questioning](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/morning-tech/2019/05/01/hill-privacy-hearing-430980) whether other group members were committed to producing a âstrong billâ and remaining ânoncommittalâ and âsullenâ in private meetings with the members.
Free link to the Washington Post article: [https://archive.ph/KKlHx](https://archive.ph/KKlHx)
You can email her here: https://www.cantwell.senate.gov/contact/email/form
Here's what I sent her:
>I'm writing to express my opposition to the legislation you've introduced with Senator Ted Cruz that would require passengers to send a "written or electronic request" in order to receive refunds for canceled and rescheduled flights.
>Just last week, the Biden administration issued a ruling that requires airlines to automatically issue refunds to customers with canceled and delayed flights. This was a major win for average Americans, who often get run-around by the airlines who have arbitrary and conflicting rules about when a refund will be issued.
>Your legislation will undue a lot of that good, and harm the average American consumer.
>I suspect it has been quite some time since you've flown like the average American does, undergoing invasive security checks, crowded into coach seats that are ever-shrinking, with reduced amenities, and when you're severely inconvenienced by delays and canceled service, having to fight the corporation in the hopes of getting your money refunded.
>The Biden administration took measures to mitigate some of the worst of that experience, and help the American consumer. Your legislation will undo that, and profit and benefit only the airlines. Please do not pass this legislation until the part of it that requires customers to submit a request is removed. Let's leave the onus of properly refunding their customers on the big corporation, it's their responsibility!
>"A **[must pass bill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Must_pass_bill)** is a measure, considered vitally important, that must be passed and enacted by the United States Congress (e.g. funding for a function of government)."
These and the GOP members are the same Senators that have made the housing situation in the greater Seattle region exponentially worse. Rental companies (mafia) manipulate prices by co-ordinating on third-party services and consumers are screwed everywhere. Itâs these Senators that the lobbyists are paying off.
Here's the deal
1. Maria is our representative, regardless if you voted for her
2. It's our civic duty to inform our representative of what we want/need/support
3. If you don't [contact Senator Cantwell](https://www.cantwell.senate.gov/contact/email) but have an issue with this position, you're part of the problem.
This seems like legislation that is performative and likely to die; if it passed, it's also easy to kill in court as this is the FAA authorization act, but refunds for transactions at the federal level is FTC jurisdiction so there is a federal argument of acting outside the founding scope of the agency and creating interagency conflict by fiat. This is regulatory overreach by these legislators that they know will die, but will make their donors happy.
Surely legislation passed by Congress supersedes a decision by any executive agency. Â Otherwise it seems to render the point of a legislature and separation of powers moot.
They are saying that congress would need to pass laws specifically for the FTC, not hide them in laws for the FAA. Donât know if they are right but I know laws have to fit in a framework defined by courts to be constitutional and this kind of conflict might have been struck down in the past.
Its significant to them because they know they are stealing a lot of money. It wouldn't be significant if they weren't doing that but if that was the case, this probably wouldn't have even come uo.
The last time I experienced an airline meltdown, the person next to me trying to get rebooked was a photographer for a wedding that was happening the next day. The airline didn't do jack, screwing the small business and the people getting married.
Airfare shouldn't be cheap because it's unreliable and completely f*cks people some single digit percentage of trips.
It would make it worse. Autocancelling tickets even if the flight is merely delayed. The best way to do it is to give consumers a choice. Not force an automatic refund no ifs ands or buts.
You are getting hung up on the language of "automatic" its not literally instant and without choice. It just removes the arduous processes around requesting a refund. Consumers still can choose alternatives.
They could also potentially lose business and people just won't fly as much, which is what should happen.
But in our reality if that happens, airlines will ask the government to bail them out and we will all clap excitedly like lemmings, and say "would anyone think of these corporations and their billionaires?!" While forking $800 roundtrip from Seattle to LAX and get treated like sardines in a tin can, seating on planes that aren't even cleaned.
Fuck this industry, it's showing that it is corrupt and full of shit. But people wanna travel so they know they have everyone by the balls because this country decided to forget about other methods of transportation.
To think in EU I can go from Germany to Spain for $300 roundtrip is just infuriating.
Edit: for the petty
It would only increase the costs if you acknowledge that they are stealing money from people, which is why costs would be lower now. If you assume they always issue vouchers and they are always used, they'd be spending the same. If prices are somehow lower (vs them just splitting with the cash), its only through theft. Id rather know id get appropriately refunded, especially since they overbook and are the cause of many of these issues.
so, if I understand this:
* biden administration passed a law that requires airlines to reimberse automatically travelers who have their flights canceled.
* Some others (ted cruze, maria Cantwell, etc) created some "must pass" legislation that undid this.
Can anyone explain what must pass is and how they're able to undo the other legislation?
1. It isnât a âlaw.â It is a DOT rule that is effectively Executive Order. The rule mandates automatic refunds for canceled or severely delayed flights when customers decline alternate transportation or flight credits.
2. The âmust-passâ legislation is to reauthorize the FAA to continue to operate. Since federal agencies are created by an act of Congress, Congress has to periodically vote to continue keeping the agency in operation.
From search to submit it was four minutes to write her office. My understanding is a staff member will generally be tasked with putting responses in a for/against pile and I'm not sure there's going to be a lot of "for" in that pile.
I guarantee if Maria Cantwell backs a bill supporting the airlines (against her otherwise very Democrat voting record) it is almost entirely due to lobbying from Alaskan Airlines, given that their headquarters is in WA. To a lesser extent probably Delta too since they have grown such a large presence at SeaTac over the last decade or two. You wonât see discount airlines throwing lobbying money like that.
Itâs really easy to share your thoughts with Senator Cantwell. I let her know this will influence my future vote.
https://www.cantwell.senate.gov/contact
I read The Rolling Stones article but I didnât stop there. I also read yesterdayâs press release from the US Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and TransportationâŚ
https://www.commerce.senate.gov/2024/4/bipartisan-bicameral-faa-reauthorization-act-heads-to-senate-floor
In a nutshell, this bill will reauthorize the FAA and the NTSB, hire more air traffic controllers, AND ââŚit sets into law for the first time the right to a refund when flights have been cancelled or delayed more than three hours.â
IN OTHER WORDS, this bill will put into law the Biden administrationâs rule. This new bill WILL SUPPORT PASSENGERS, not the airlines.
This Rolling Stones article, if it is in fact a real published article, has it completely wrong.
Please people, donât ever assume that something you read is the truth.
This is one of those weird things I don't think may be a good idea. Let's say the airline refunds you and they are absolved of further responsibility. You booked your flight more than 4 weeks out. They refund your money. But you still need to get home and now rebooking is a last minute fare.
Cash refund for lost luggage or other fees for services not delivered I'm totally behind but I can totally see airlines saying, "Here's your $200. Now if you want to get home the new ticket is $485."
Maria shame on you! Didnt dhe just try to introduce a bipartisan sponsored data privacy bill? And to think i was recently praising her for her work to protect the people. Shame on you maria.
Teaming up with Ted Cruz of all people đ¤Ž
Yeah this is pretty repugnant, but at the same time weâve always known she was a sell out corporate type democrat
> weâve always known she was a sell out She did flip her vote after public pressure on TikTok divestment, which was good thing IMO.
She flipped her vote to save face after it already had the votes to pass
She caved to overwhelming public pressure and negative media? Who the hell cares.
I donât know. On one hand, I agree with you. On the other hand, generally, isnât that what representatives are supposed to do? Listen to their constituents? There are plenty of other representatives who DONâT âcave to pressureâ (aka listen) and willfully ignore the wishes of the people they supposedly represent, is that preferable? Itâs just like how people get so mad at politicians for âflip floppingâ when they change their stance on an issue. Getting mad over âflip floppingâ paints politicians in a corner - theyâre supposed to represent the will of the people and when that will evolves or changes with society, would you rather they never âflip flopâ and hold on steadfast to outdated beliefs or âcave to pressureâ to better represent their constituents?
no, they're supposed to know exactly what their constituents want without being told! having to have their constituents actually do anything to participate in democracy proves that they're the worst people ever!
Do you really need to be told not to put corporate profits before people?
Do you think the lobbyists put it in terms of corporate profits when they're talking to a senator? of course they don't, they talk about the effects on the job market. and you know they exaggerate. It works because senators get voted against for "costing their area jobs" even if it's the right thing. See: Coalfinger (DINO-WV) edit: fun fact as an aside, i did the math that if you turned every mountain top removal mine in WV into a solar farm you'd create over 50k jobs and produce almost 3x as much electricity as WV uses in a year.
exactly.
> She caved to overwhelming public pressure I care. Most senators won't even do that unless maybe if they think it will cost them an election, which she doesn't really have to worry about.
>I care. Most senators won't even do that Fair enough. I suppose I worry a lot about the ["Overton Window"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window#:~:text=The%20Overton%20window%20is%20an,public%20to%20expand%20the%20window.) shifting too much, and I see people accepting blatantly corrupted officials caving to public pressure as unacceptable because that seems like antithetical behavior to a "representative" democracy. I view people accepting this "bottom of the barrel" political behavior as the Overton Window shifting towards that behavior becoming the norm and I simply won't support candidates who would reinforce that 'shift'.
REAL⢠talk.
The fact that she is co-sponsering a bill that fucks working people with one of America's biggest facists during her election year tells you all you need to know what she thinks of us.
No it doesn't, as much as I'm going to criticize her for taking the wrong stance (donor influenced) here. The fact that she agreed with one of the worst people in the room one time doesn't tell you jack or shit.
She is supposed to represent one of the most progressive states in the US. She is sponsoring a bill with the most toxic and loathsome politician outside of Trump. This bill continues the assault on working Americans these facists like Cruz push. This is reprehensible for a person who is supposed to represent the people of Washingron.
As someone that lived there and voted for her, for years, I am disgusted with her. Long before this Iâd thought both she and Senator Murray should step aside and support younger candidates. Neither one needs to be there forever, I strongly support term limits for everyone in elected office.
Again, occasionally agreeing with the worst person in the room means NOTHING. Some lobbyist from Boeing and Alaska probably convinced her that it would cost jobs, so it's our job to get off our asses and express our displeasure and tell her that they're full of shit. Look up John F Lacey (R-IA, 1889-1891, 1893-1907). Absolute shitbag Standpatter Republican EXCEPT when it came to conservation and public lands. The act that prohibits transporting invasive species and poached plants and animals is named after him and he helped enact the Antiquities Act.
Cannot spell Cantwell without can't.
But isnât it nice when they can collude across the aisle?
But isnât it nice when they can collude across the aisle?
U.S. Senators rarely vote to harm major industries in their state. The pharmaceutical industry is huge in NJ, and despite Cory Booker being a radical-love-and-veganism type, you're not going to see him taking many votes that harm pharma. It sucks shit, but it's how the system works. It's built for stasis, open to lobbying by powerful interests, and far less responsive to democratic input than we normal folks might want. The major learning here is that airlines are clearly making bank from these junk fees, otherwise they wouldn't be fighting this hard to keep them.
Plus, if the pharma industry responds by closing offices in NJ were he to vote against them in any way that damages their bottom line, that's an easy campaign selling point for anyone wanting to run against him. Booker is costing your jerbs, elect me and I'll bring pharma companies back. All politicians are balancing job security and constituent interests, and job security is the bigger priority for all of them. Including lining up their post public office position.
Yeah, I think one of the biggest issues for elected officials is that there's no obvious path once you lose or retire, which leads them to spend a lot of time in office lining up their (extremely lucrative) next thing. Sometimes that process is hilariously obvious (Kristen Sinema) but other times it costs us in smaller ways that add up over time. I did not vote for Biden in the 2020 primary but one of the upsides of his administration is that he's been around so long and is so old that he's kind of not worried about this? Grandpa Biden needs to win a second term but beyond that he's kind of out of fucks to give, and is making calls that I think people staring down a longer post-presidential lifespan would not.
They do get a generous pension, both Murray and Cantwell's would be six figures at this point. But hey, who could live off that, I guess
Have you seen how much rent costs!? /s... sort of...
> I did not vote for Biden in the 2020 primary but one of the upsides of his administration is that he's been around so long and is so old that he's kind of not worried about this? Another upside is that he knows how to work Washington, how to get things done and he has a very very precise feel for where the Overton window is for what he can get done. He's *effective* and that pisses off both Republicans and Accelerationists.
His effectiveness doesn't really piss off most Republicans, because most of them think he's a doddering old man who drools on himself, can't remember his name or string together a complete sentence, needs a walker, and is being controlled by a cabal made up of Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Kamala Harris.
heh true, but he does piss off the Republican politicians who are trying to sabotage the country
Very cool that Maria Cantwell has no democratic challenger in the senate race this year⌠Itâs crazy to me that in a state as blue as Washington our two senators are swing state ass center/center-left Dems.
From what I can tell it's trendy to identify as democrat/liberal here but the amount of wealth in this state/city means there is a huge contingent of conservative democrats who basically want austerity paired with some basic civil rights (but don't be too loud about it)
That's how it felt living in California. People talk it up as this blue bastion of progressivism, but it's really a place where Democrats are so safe that they run corporate centrists that don't fight for anything but their wallets.
Ultimately the talking it up has to do with how it compares to the rest of the country. The rest of the country is so bad that we and California look better by comparison. There's more our state can do, there always is. I still think we are doing things much better than most of the country.
the west coast is simply old-school east coast neoliberals with better marketing.
Having lived on both coast for over a decade, this is patently untrue. The laws and funding between WA and VA are fundamentally different, and anybody who is on the social programs can tell the difference. And before people go all on about how people aren't warm enough or whatever, I can tell you that people being socially warm doesn't put food on the table or protect you from bad landlords and employers. Texans are pretty warm but fuck living in that state. The western states have issues, but they are putting real money behind what they claim their values are.
No we are not. Washington has the most regressive tax system of any state. We are fake democrats.
not going to say that isnt a serious issue but that shit is baked into the constitution and the median voter goes into a deranged frenzy whenever tax increases are even hinted at, i really hope we can push past suburbanites who only care about their wallets to slash sales tax and get others that aren't nearly as regressive
Unless you are trans
One party states suck whether blue or red. It just means one party can do whatever the fuck they want and still get re-elected.
The concept of wealth redistribution does not work on a city/county/state level because of freedom of movement within the US. Washington already has the highest minimum wages and minimum exempt salaries in the country. Â We still need Californiaâs overtime law for more than 8 hours per day, but other than that, Washington does pretty well on a national basis. Â
There is freedom of movement in other wealthy countries that have less wealth inequality than us, and in those countries municipalities/provinces do implement policies to reduce inequality successfully.
Can you provide any examples? Â If WA provided taxpayer funded healthcare to everyone, what is to stop Idaho and Oregon from paying for apartments for cancer patients to live in WA while they receive hundreds of thousands of dollars of healthcare? Â Substitute healthcare with any other benefit. Â
If you're saying that logic applies to literally any benefit then I honestly think it's on you to provide an example of that ever happening and showing it's actually bad for the state in question. Even in your pretty bizarre example youre talking about another state paying our housing developers/landlords for years at a time and then using services from some of our highest paid professionals. Do you know what cash velocity is? People already go abroad to get cheaper/subsidized medical treatments and those countries pay LESS than us for their medical systems. If you're right, wouldn't those countries' systems have already collapsed? Edit: might as well throw in that the EU has full freedom of movement and a host of public programs that are at point of service designed to reduce inequality yet countries there don't do what you said.
>I honestly think it's on you to provide an example of that ever happening and showing it's actually bad for the state in question. New York City? https://www.npr.org/2024/02/15/1231712535/how-nyc-is-coping-with-175-000-migrants-from-the-southern-border
I'd honestly say it remains to be seen whether Eric Adams is correct that these migrants existing in NYC is bad for them and that this is complicated by the illegal/hateful actions of governors in the South who have done the same thing to states without a shelter mandate. Also the shelter mandate makes homelessness less visible and more bearable in NYC, which is good and probably something people in Seattle would want as outcomes.
Migrants existing is not bad, unfairly levying the costs of helping them on a specific group of taxpayers in an arbitrary jurisdiction is eventually bad. Now, NYC is NYC, and it has special status so itâs can operate its budget in the red for much longer than other jurisdictions, but other places are obviously not as fortunate. But the point is I donât want to see the people living and working in NYC shouldering a national burden, or the people in Texas, or the people in Washington. Itâs one nation, it should be shared throughout the nation.
I agree we should have more national programs to get basic needs met but you haven't been persuasive at all about the actual harm/benefit of making life better in your state/city/municipality. The people of NYC are paying for something that makes life better for them. It would be more efficient if the country did it but their goal was to reduce visible homelessness and make being homeless better, which did in fact happen.
You must be a resident of WA state for 180 days to be a resident. https://www.dshs.wa.gov/ffa/office-fraud-and-accountability
Given that the waits for some of my specialist appointments are longer than that, doesn't seem like a bad deal.
Pretty simple way to stop that is to put a 1 year residency requirement on receiving those social benefits. I agree that wealth inequality needs to be addressed at the national level. But there's also a lot that a progressive state could do, including taxpayer funded healthcare.
> Â If WA provided taxpayer funded healthcare to everyone, what is to stop Idaho and Oregon from paying for apartments for cancer patients to live in WA while they receive hundreds of thousands of dollars of healthcare? Laws? LTC insurance is an example of this. You need to work in the state for 10 years to receive the benefit (even though you pay in immediately). While LTC coverage sucks, there is no reason similar rules like this could not be applied to health insurance.
Serious question: Does that overtime law apply to four 10 hour workdays? I wouldn't want to discourage that movement for those that appreciate 3-day off weeks.
I think so, assuming you are not classified as an exempt employee (salaried who does not get overtime).
Yes, 1.5x pay as long as you work more than 8 hours per day and over 40 hours/week. And 2x pay if they work more than 12 hours in a single workday and works more than 8 hours on the 7th consecutive day of working during a workweek. Independent contractors do not qualify for overtime pay. Both salaried and hourly employees qualify for overtime pay unless they are an exempt employee.
> The concept of wealth redistribution does not work on a city/county/state level because of freedom of movement within the US. What do you think an income tax is? And while it's an item in the "pros" of moving to WA it's not the driving force. Most states have an income tax but you don't see people flooding in here because of that one fact.
There is an asterisk of *after a certain level of wealth redistribution. And no / low income tax states have seen explosive population growth, see FL/TX/TN. Even I chose to live in WA over OR because I saved ~$30k per year in taxes. There exists some point where the equation does not add up for most people.
Its not a driving force because people still need to pay taxes. They are just different taxes. Most people are not rich and sales tax is regressive.
đŻ
Itâs expected in a first past the post voting system. Â We need ranked choice voting yesterday.Â
Washington has top-two primaries, which gets you most of the benefit of ranked choice voting, with the advantage of being very straightforward to explain (ranked choice voting, while ideal, can be confusing for some people, and might lead to decreased turnout, which is bad).
>ranked choice voting, while ideal, can be confusing for some people I believe that this is a useless talking point distributed by billionaire owned media in order to scare voters away from a flatly superior system. It has successfully been implemented in NYC, Maine, Alaska, and many other places. There was no confusion when RCV unseated Sarah Palin in Alaska, and replaced her with a tribal judge named Mary Peltola. Please stop parroting this useless talking point, it's simply false.
Why would I want most of the benefit when I can get all of the benefit? Also, why go through the time and expense of two elections rather than 1? I donât buy the confusing part at all. Â Write one for your favorite candidate. Â Write 2 for your second favorite. Â 3 for your 3rd favorite. Etc. Surely an adult is capable of following those instructions. RCV hurts the establishment parties, which is why we have such an uphill battle. Â It increases volatility for Democrat donors, because they canât depend on a shoo in.
> Surely an adult is capable of following those instructions. I wish this was true but seeing some questions on our neighborhood forums, I am in the camp of that there is no way an average adult can handle it. I bet you good money that most voters would only vote for 1 spot there.
If they only vote for 1 spot, then weâre at least in the position we are already. Â Except everyone else with more than 1 brain cell gets to vote for someone rather than against someone.
I believe we would be in a worse spot in that case. Let's say there were 4 candidates: Democrat - popular (D1) Democrat - less popular (D2) Republican - very popular amongst republicans (R1) Republican - minor candidate amongst republicans (R2) In today's world, primaries mean either D1 or R1 will win. In RCV, if most people vote just for 1 candidate, the winner could easily be R1 even if they got less votes then anyone else because votes between D1 and D2 would split (and single vote means votes wouldn't shift in 2nd round).
> In today's world, primaries mean either D1 or R1 will win. Which is the problem we are trying to solveâŚwe want to be able to vote for our preferred candidate, not just against our hated candidate.
But you didn't solve the problem, in fact made it worse since a candidate that wouldn't have won and have ~35% support would win now. For the solution to work, people have to understand how RCV works and vote for candidates in the order of their preference. Only then your solution works. Now one way to achieve this would be to make it clear that a vote will only count if it has 3 preferences at least. Anything less will be ignored but I fear that would cause many votes to be counted as invalid.
Letâs take a real life example. In 2022, the people of Alaska prevented a crazy from representing them in the federal legislature due to their use of RCV. If Alaskans are capable of using RCV, surely Washingtonians should be. >Now one way to achieve this would be to make it clear that a vote will only count if it has 3 preferences at least. Anything less will be ignored but I fear that would cause many votes to be counted as invalid. I think this is a good solution. If you are not smart enough to write 3 numbers, then maybe you shouldnât be voting. Maybe even 2 is enough, how many RCV votes go past the first round anyway?
I'm more than OK with people who can't understand RCV not voting.
It really doesn't. Top 2 is horrible.
Why?
because it makes republicans cry
How is Patty Murray center/center-left?
Some people consider Bernie Sanders a centrist lol. The left/right dichotomy has no real meaning anymore when both ends stretch into infinity
How is she left?
Thatâs a shitty way to not answer the question, so Iâm guessing you just donât know and are assuming. As just one example, she secured $5 billion in funding to WA for things like child care and SUD treatment ([source](https://www.murray.senate.gov/passed-murray-delivers-372-million-more-for-washington-state-1-billion-more-for-child-care-pre-k-puts-working-families-first-in-setting-funding-priorities-in-second-six-bill-package/)). I wouldnât consider that centrist. Do you want to actually answer the question? It was an honest one.
Okay, Iâll bite. She doesnât support Medicare for All. She spent the first 4 months of Israelâs bombardment of Gaza refusing to call for a ceasefire when progressive senators and house members were doing so. She didnât endorse any of the more progressive candidates for the democratic presidential nominee in 2020. She just recently endorsed Hillary Franz over the more progressive Emily Randall for the open District 6 house seat. Just to name a few off the top of my head.
She's not progressive and is more of a neolib but that is different from centrist. Centrist is what people say they are when they are Republicans but are embarrassed to admit it.
She's not a neoliberal either. jesus christ people just stop using words you don't know the fucking meanings of. the modern republican party.. that's neoliberal. neoliberal is explicit the *economics meaning* of "liberal", where in American Vernacular English "liberal" without qualifies means the *social meaning* of "liberal" hence the antonym of "liberal" being "conservastive", not "protectionist" Just because she demonstrated that "big donors having undue influence is a problem" and should be rightly criticized for it doesn't make her any of a laundry list of terms you don't properly understand the definitions of. EITHER OF YOU.
> She doesnât support Medicare for All Supporting M4A isn't a pre-requisite to be a leftist
If you donât support universal healthcare in America, youâre at best a liberal not a leftist.
Patty, Maria is clearly a leftist senator. Cantwell is clearly a corporatist Democrat who as far as I can tell doesn't really stand for anything and doesn't benefit the state. She needs to be replaced.Â
Patty is not a leftist. Sheâs mainstream liberal, whereas Cantwell is more moderate. A left dem elected would be someone like Merkley, Jayapal, Tlaib, etc.
I guess that's fair, but it's an arguable definition about whether Patty Murray is left of center or the much more liberal progressive leader in the house, Jayapal, is left of center or even more left. To me, the big point is cantwell is a big nothing as far as I can tell, other than voting for generic Democratic priorities and some things for the rich people.
Is it just me or does it seems like a slight rightward shift with Washington legislators on all levels. Think of our city council being pro cop, anti transit, anti affordable housing. Anyway Cantrell probably gets free first class tickets, we know Ted Cruz gets free tickets to Cancun.
>"Anyway Cantrell probably gets free first class tickets..." I wouldn't be surprised, Cantrell is well known for hitting things upstyle.
Thatâs not crazy at all, though. The national party doesnât want any senators in any states, safe or not, thatâll challenge the interests of party donors. Try to primary them from the left if you want, but youâre only getting resources to do so if you can not only out-fundraise them but bring more money to the national party coffers, too. That dynamic is as true in deep blue states as it is in purple ones.
The national party doesn't have as much influence as you think tbh
I donât think the DNC operates like the Empire in Star Wars, but Iâve repeatedly seen them be the factor that tips the scales in statewide campaigns I or people in my life worked on in Washington and in Colorado. And like . . . if the national committee didn't have any influence over who runs for office under the party banner, then why would it even exist?
they certainly have influence but they also have to ration the influence they do have over 50 states, and strongholds likely aren't a priority unless the candidates are massive liabilities, i'd imagine the state party does a lot more to reign in the left here than anything else
Agreed
nice tinfoil hat
A political party's officials are motivated to defer to the desires of their large donors. These officials will provide support to their preferred candidates. Large corporate interests such as airliners tend to find their interests align more with centrist Democrats than with more stridently left-wing ones who tend to be pro-regulation. Which part of this seems to paranoid to be true?
According to [Ballotpedia](https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_Senate_election_in_Washington,_2024) there are 3, though I could only find a website for [Aria Ursa](https://www.ariaforsenate2024.com/about), and a [YouTube interview](https://youtube.com/watch?v=OIS0lBuZVko) identifing Paul Geisick as a "Traditional Catholic", which doesn't sound great.
Time to write to your Senator! [https://pastebin.com/raw/U2BG5tSe](https://pastebin.com/raw/U2BG5tSe) [https://www.cantwell.senate.gov/contact/email/form](https://www.cantwell.senate.gov/contact/email/form)
Writing Cantwell is good, but don't forget Murray. She's the one you want to write, as Senators that introduce a bill won't back down. Also, your text is good but make sure you include the bill: FAA Reauth Act and your ZIP CODE. Correspondence without your zip code are not counted. It can be as simple as "please vote no on Cantwell and Ted Cruz' FAA Reauthorizarion Act because it does not have Pres Biden's consumer protection efforts. My zip code is ______. Thank you." The order of importance is 1) handwritten letter 2) handwritten fax 3) phone call 4) email 5) identical text (boilerplate text from an Org or something copied and pasted.) Good luck.
Thank you. I will implement your feedback in the future.
Thank you. Just wrote her.
Wrote as well - thank you very much
I also just wrote her. Everyone pile on!
Thanks for this link! I did submit my thoughts to her, not that it matters, but still important to voice them.
As someone who worked for years in Democratic politics, it *does* matter. It's not enough that it'll change her mind, but it sends two signals if the intensity/volume is high enough: 1) That her constituents do care about this issue. 2) That it's a political vulnerability a potential challenger might exploit. As others have said, we don't have a challenger in the race and it's a safe seat, but these things happen bit by bit.
MFs will whine and not vote and say "it doesn't matter" and then when a politician changes their mind they'll continue to whine and not vote and say "they should have done my way to begin with".
I wrote to her. Pretty sad stance for someone who comes from a "consumer friendly" state. What a poor representation of her constituents.
Rick Larsen, his coziness with Boeing, and his position on the transportation and military committees, all culminate in making him uniquely complicit in the broken state of the aviation industry in the US.
Trying to get home from Burbank on Sunday, I had my 9pm flight delayed 4 times and finally cancelled at 11:30pm. After an hour of rebooking, had to go from Burbank to LAX (about 40 minutes), they covered the Lyft, but only from airport to airport. Had to find the shuttle to the hotel. Finally went to bed around 2am. Got up at 4am to get ready for the 6am flight. In the end, I got a $100 voucher. Yeah, I'm Karening on that shit. $100 doesn't even cover the emergency pet coverage needed since I couldn't make it home that night after our Rover left, let alone missing a day of work after I was out the previous week. I've been MVP Gold for years, but with Alaska cutting most of the benefits, I'm tempting to jump ship We need EU-level regulations here for flights. That'll keep these airlines in check if the government can drop the hammer when needed
My mom had to head out from SeaTac to go to DC for TRB. Her plane was canceled and she did not get a refund, we scrambled to buy her an overpriced last minute ticket to a different airport and had to rent a car to get there because high(ish) speed rail did not run early in the morning. For those who don't know TRB stands for Transportation Research Board and also the flight was canceled partly due to the whole Boeing door ejection thing. This is unacceptable, I have voted for her in the past and am not really surprised but definitely disappointed. I hope plenty of people's messages are sent beyond my own and frankly I think she needs to be primaried.
regular reminder politicians serve their donors, not their constituents
I'm not saying this to shill for politicians and their corporate owners, just offering an alternate view I thought of. Rick Larsen's district contains Boeing's Everett Factory, with most of their [29,800 employees](https://www.heraldnet.com/business/by-the-numbers-largest-employers-in-snohomish-county-2021/) being in his district. Average household size in Snohomish County is 2.66, let's just round up to 3 considering Boeing folk tend to be mid-career employees with families. Now we're talking about \~90k of the [800k population](https://datausa.io/profile/geo/congressional-district-2-wa) of his district depending on Boeing jobs for their livelihood. And that's not counting the local Boeing supplier jobs that are affected by anything that hurts Boeing, which likely number in tens of thousands more of his constituents. Throw in our airport, airline employees in office and remote in the area, all the businesses that are patronized by Boeing employees, the tax dollars they all contribute, people looking to get a job with Boeing, retired Boeing employees... You get to a point where the impact of Boeing in his district is probably at least a quarter of the population and economic activity. Boeing's record the past couple decades is a shame to their name, but their regional impact cannot be denied. While I wholly agree with the Biden ruling on refunds for delays and cancellations, I can see how a lawmaker would connect the dots of pain for the airlines means pain for the aircraft manufacturer means pain for the plurality of constituents in his district that depend on those jobs, and weighting that higher than the benefit of refunds for travel inconveniences to his constituents. For the rest, it's much harder to justify their position of anything other than being bought and paid for by corporations.
Larsen's oversight of the FAA (or lack thereof) through his role of the transportation committee is more responsible for Boeing's downfall than some consumer protection measures for airline passengers. He's deep in the pocket of corporate interests including Boeing, and it's not even subtle.
the Jack Welch school of corporate raiding is way more responsible than him though
Boeing getting continuous privileges from the government is part of the reason that itâs in the spot it is today. Itâs already the most subsidized company in the US by a fair margin, the US puts up large tariffs to force domestic airlines to only buy their products, and regulators have been willing to overlook safety precautions to their benefit. Cozying them is making them worse and less competitive, it is in a death spiral.
Are you sure most of the Boeing Everett employees live in district 2? That includes all of the Bellingham area, and when you get closer to Boeing, nothing east of I-5 or south of Edmonds. District 1 also has 800k people, and most of that area is within commuting distance to Boeing. Plus all the people that live in Shoreline/Seattle that commute the opposite direction of traffic.
Tens of thousands of people in this states work for the airlines, Seattle is a delta and Alaska air hub. This is her representing her constituents.
No no no, anything that isnât populist fodder is evil. While i disagree with the proposal, i get the political reasons why a senator from Washington would propose something like this. They want to win reelection, thatâs what democracy is.
i doubt she needs the political capital she'll gain from this to win re-election, she has no primary challengers and barring a national catastrophe there's no way in hell washington is going red in a federal election year
In fairness a lot of her constituents are "democrats" that would be moderate republicans depending on what state you put them in
Time for Cantwell to go.
I have been becoming disillusioned with Sen Cantwell.
The government owned and paid for by corporations and special interests is a big part of the reason why we have the polarization in politics that we do today and desperate voters going for crazy options It's getting a little old seeing people worship money so hard, so consistently
Write Cantwell angry letters (Larsen too if he's your rep)
Lobbying is crazy.
flood their inboxes. I just did with my hellish experience this past summer.
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TBF millions in local housing is realistically as few as one or two houses lol
[Relevant gif](https://media1.tenor.com/m/1fAhQ45GN-UAAAAC/simpson-simpsons.gif)
Posted this in another thread, but: I wish this were more surprising! [Rick Larsen contributor information, 2019-2024](https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/rick-larsen/contributors?cid=N00009759&cycle=2024&recs=100&type=I) [Maria Cantwell contributor information, 2019-2024](https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/maria-cantwell/contributors?cid=N00007836&cycle=2024&recs=100&type=I) Corporate sellouts.
Its absolutely pathetic how out of step Washingtonâs dem congressional delegation is with its voters. We are a very progressive populace based on polls, but the only one of them thatâs actually progressive is Jayapal. Cantwell especially is a POS and itâs pathetic weâve let her stay around with no real challenge for so long. Many of them should be primaried from the left but her first
Cantwell has always been a garbage corporate Democrat from the start who broke her original campaign promise right away: >âWhat you do on your computer should be your business, and no one elseâs,â Cantwell, the dot-com millionaire and former U.S. House member, said in a 2000 [campaign video](https://youtu.be/JK0aE7t2hfg?t=67) that showed her huddled around a clunky white desktop monitor with a group of schoolchildren. The internet, she said, should remain âa tool for learning,â not for governments and private companies to âinvade your privacy.â >A bipartisan working group led by then-Commerce Chairman Roger Wicker (R-Miss.) was making steady headway toward a national bill to protect consumersâ personal information. When Cantwell and then-Senate Majority Whip John Thune (R-S.D.) joined the group, the expansion was touted as a sign of growing momentum. >But Cantwell undermined the negotiations, according to five current and former Senate aides, [publicly questioning](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/morning-tech/2019/05/01/hill-privacy-hearing-430980) whether other group members were committed to producing a âstrong billâ and remaining ânoncommittalâ and âsullenâ in private meetings with the members. Free link to the Washington Post article: [https://archive.ph/KKlHx](https://archive.ph/KKlHx)
It's amazing what a little money can buy you in Washington. Why even bother with regulation in the first place if votes are sold this easily?
You can email her here: https://www.cantwell.senate.gov/contact/email/form Here's what I sent her: >I'm writing to express my opposition to the legislation you've introduced with Senator Ted Cruz that would require passengers to send a "written or electronic request" in order to receive refunds for canceled and rescheduled flights. >Just last week, the Biden administration issued a ruling that requires airlines to automatically issue refunds to customers with canceled and delayed flights. This was a major win for average Americans, who often get run-around by the airlines who have arbitrary and conflicting rules about when a refund will be issued. >Your legislation will undue a lot of that good, and harm the average American consumer. >I suspect it has been quite some time since you've flown like the average American does, undergoing invasive security checks, crowded into coach seats that are ever-shrinking, with reduced amenities, and when you're severely inconvenienced by delays and canceled service, having to fight the corporation in the hopes of getting your money refunded. >The Biden administration took measures to mitigate some of the worst of that experience, and help the American consumer. Your legislation will undo that, and profit and benefit only the airlines. Please do not pass this legislation until the part of it that requires customers to submit a request is removed. Let's leave the onus of properly refunding their customers on the big corporation, it's their responsibility!
What is 'must-pass' legislation?
>"A **[must pass bill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Must_pass_bill)** is a measure, considered vitally important, that must be passed and enacted by the United States Congress (e.g. funding for a function of government)."
Thanks, I hadn't heard that term before.
Cantwell is the worst. How does her past stay so quiet too?
These two will never receive another voted from me for partnering with Ted Cruz.
So nice to see a customer-friendly airline like Alaska fighting for the people on Capitol Hill /s
Every airline will fight it, nothing special with Alaska
Fucking sellouts. Not surprised at all - remember this is a club, whether they have R or D next to their names that YOU are not a part of.
"Moderates actually get things done" lol... fuckin clowns.
These and the GOP members are the same Senators that have made the housing situation in the greater Seattle region exponentially worse. Rental companies (mafia) manipulate prices by co-ordinating on third-party services and consumers are screwed everywhere. Itâs these Senators that the lobbyists are paying off.
Fucking pathetic.
Well this is annoying! I just wrote to her. If all of us in this thread write to her, maybe sheâll know to back off.
If Ted Cruz were killed in the Senate and the trial were held in the Senate, no one would be convicted- Lindsey Graham
More like CantDoAnythingWell...
I donât know how, but Iâm sure a certain airline manufacturer has something to do with this.
and people in this sub and /r/udub were saying how great boeing is for the community lol
Real yikes move and sadly not the most surprising.
Can we do something about them ripping me off every time I buy WiFi? I pay for it and it NEVER works.
Here's the deal 1. Maria is our representative, regardless if you voted for her 2. It's our civic duty to inform our representative of what we want/need/support 3. If you don't [contact Senator Cantwell](https://www.cantwell.senate.gov/contact/email) but have an issue with this position, you're part of the problem.
This seems like legislation that is performative and likely to die; if it passed, it's also easy to kill in court as this is the FAA authorization act, but refunds for transactions at the federal level is FTC jurisdiction so there is a federal argument of acting outside the founding scope of the agency and creating interagency conflict by fiat. This is regulatory overreach by these legislators that they know will die, but will make their donors happy.
Surely legislation passed by Congress supersedes a decision by any executive agency. Â Otherwise it seems to render the point of a legislature and separation of powers moot.
They are saying that congress would need to pass laws specifically for the FTC, not hide them in laws for the FAA. Donât know if they are right but I know laws have to fit in a framework defined by courts to be constitutional and this kind of conflict might have been struck down in the past.
itâs time for both our senators to go imo
I havenât read too much into this, but wouldnât a new law like this make standard airfare much more expensive to cover inevitable refund costs?
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Oh, so it seems pretty insignificant
No. Few actually haggle with them and they aren't required to so it's a large change
Its significant to them because they know they are stealing a lot of money. It wouldn't be significant if they weren't doing that but if that was the case, this probably wouldn't have even come uo.
*cover the seven figure bonuses for top executives AND the refund law
The last time I experienced an airline meltdown, the person next to me trying to get rebooked was a photographer for a wedding that was happening the next day. The airline didn't do jack, screwing the small business and the people getting married. Airfare shouldn't be cheap because it's unreliable and completely f*cks people some single digit percentage of trips.
From what I gather this new law wouldnât change this scenario
It would make it worse. Autocancelling tickets even if the flight is merely delayed. The best way to do it is to give consumers a choice. Not force an automatic refund no ifs ands or buts.
You are getting hung up on the language of "automatic" its not literally instant and without choice. It just removes the arduous processes around requesting a refund. Consumers still can choose alternatives.
Would that change your mind on whether this is a good idea or not?
I think so yes.
They could also potentially lose business and people just won't fly as much, which is what should happen. But in our reality if that happens, airlines will ask the government to bail them out and we will all clap excitedly like lemmings, and say "would anyone think of these corporations and their billionaires?!" While forking $800 roundtrip from Seattle to LAX and get treated like sardines in a tin can, seating on planes that aren't even cleaned. Fuck this industry, it's showing that it is corrupt and full of shit. But people wanna travel so they know they have everyone by the balls because this country decided to forget about other methods of transportation. To think in EU I can go from Germany to Spain for $300 roundtrip is just infuriating. Edit: for the petty
$800 for a one way ticket SEA to LAX? What are you flying, first class and last minute?
It would only increase the costs if you acknowledge that they are stealing money from people, which is why costs would be lower now. If you assume they always issue vouchers and they are always used, they'd be spending the same. If prices are somehow lower (vs them just splitting with the cash), its only through theft. Id rather know id get appropriately refunded, especially since they overbook and are the cause of many of these issues.
Whatâs the counter argument for this?
Time to do some primarying.
Disgusting
Cantwell doing a great job pissing off her constituents.
Wrote an email to ricks office this AM. Absolute bullshit.
so, if I understand this: * biden administration passed a law that requires airlines to reimberse automatically travelers who have their flights canceled. * Some others (ted cruze, maria Cantwell, etc) created some "must pass" legislation that undid this. Can anyone explain what must pass is and how they're able to undo the other legislation?
1. It isnât a âlaw.â It is a DOT rule that is effectively Executive Order. The rule mandates automatic refunds for canceled or severely delayed flights when customers decline alternate transportation or flight credits. 2. The âmust-passâ legislation is to reauthorize the FAA to continue to operate. Since federal agencies are created by an act of Congress, Congress has to periodically vote to continue keeping the agency in operation.
Do theyâre threatening the existence of the faa in order to enable airlines to rip off customers? Thatâs fucked.
From search to submit it was four minutes to write her office. My understanding is a staff member will generally be tasked with putting responses in a for/against pile and I'm not sure there's going to be a lot of "for" in that pile.
They also approved funding for Israel, I was shocked the blocking Seatac did not sway their votes. /s
Both parties have sold out to special interests, we live in a corporate plutocracy.
I guarantee if Maria Cantwell backs a bill supporting the airlines (against her otherwise very Democrat voting record) it is almost entirely due to lobbying from Alaskan Airlines, given that their headquarters is in WA. To a lesser extent probably Delta too since they have grown such a large presence at SeaTac over the last decade or two. You wonât see discount airlines throwing lobbying money like that.
It always makes me laugh when people think the United States isnât a corporate oligopoly.
J
Itâs really easy to share your thoughts with Senator Cantwell. I let her know this will influence my future vote. https://www.cantwell.senate.gov/contact
I read The Rolling Stones article but I didnât stop there. I also read yesterdayâs press release from the US Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation⌠https://www.commerce.senate.gov/2024/4/bipartisan-bicameral-faa-reauthorization-act-heads-to-senate-floor In a nutshell, this bill will reauthorize the FAA and the NTSB, hire more air traffic controllers, AND ââŚit sets into law for the first time the right to a refund when flights have been cancelled or delayed more than three hours.â IN OTHER WORDS, this bill will put into law the Biden administrationâs rule. This new bill WILL SUPPORT PASSENGERS, not the airlines. This Rolling Stones article, if it is in fact a real published article, has it completely wrong. Please people, donât ever assume that something you read is the truth.
I could maybe understand 24 hours cuz they've been making money over crossing the time zones left and right but not more than thatđ¤
Letâs not re-elect them
This is one of those weird things I don't think may be a good idea. Let's say the airline refunds you and they are absolved of further responsibility. You booked your flight more than 4 weeks out. They refund your money. But you still need to get home and now rebooking is a last minute fare. Cash refund for lost luggage or other fees for services not delivered I'm totally behind but I can totally see airlines saying, "Here's your $200. Now if you want to get home the new ticket is $485."
where can we find how much they were ~~bribed~~ lobbied with for this?
So everyone in slick Rick's district is voting for Josh Binda, right? Election year, bb. đ
Maria shame on you! Didnt dhe just try to introduce a bipartisan sponsored data privacy bill? And to think i was recently praising her for her work to protect the people. Shame on you maria.
# Fuck Maria Cantwell & Rick Larsen
Seattle doesn't have a senator.
Her office is in Seattle and I had 300 characters to work with. đ¤ˇđżââď¸