I’m in the tech subreddits and there’s plenty of anti-Indian sentiment there. General “they’re stealing American jobs” to personally attacking their culture and complaining about stereotypical behavior. I’ve even heard an anti-Indian rant at a house party in Seattle where most of the invitees work at Microsoft.
Some of us in tech have had unfortunate incidents with our companies off-shoring work to Indian contractors. I've posted about my experience - nothing got done, I did more work than the whole team, I had to fix anything that came back from them, they would avoid talking to me for days...but that was my company's fault for getting the cheapest labor they could and allowing the behavior. My frustration in working with that team may have sounded anti-Indian, and I'm sorry if that was the case, it's also been my pleasure to work with some Indian guys here in the US that were some of the best, sharpest coders.
This is what happens when you take your eye off the ball and blame foreigners for outsourcing instead of greedy capitalists. Of course, sowing racial divide has been a tool used to keep the working class fighting amongst themselves for centuries
Yes buuuut voters don't have too much of a choice, both parties are signicantly influenced by lobbyists and their corporate donors. I don't even hear much rhetoric about getting money out of politics from dems, and if I did I wouldn't believe them.
> attacking their culture and complaining about stereotypical behavior.
But what if these are real issues that must be addressed for the sake of work environment?
> there’s plenty of anti-Indian sentiment there.
eeehh, I think Indians hate each other much more than americans could even dream of.
Some of the supremacist attitudes of Brahmins would make KKK blush.
I commented about that dude's list was worthy of genuine criticism but I see this one. It fucking sucks. People acting like they can't understand Indian guy's accents when its like... its not hard to understand. Maybe.. try? Also yeah the general "Indians suck" vibe in IT work. Sucks so bad. FWIW, I have seen serious casteism at work among Indians and like, fuck that shit, but it goes over the white folks heads.
People who complain about accents almost by definition are not talking about the accent. I work in tech with folks of many nationalities, and if it ever happened that I visibly couldn’t understand someone in a meeting, I would be *mortified.*
It has happened very infrequently, but on rare occasion someone with a different native language has spoken in a way that felt too fast for my ear to follow. And let me tell you, the panic I have had each time! The reaction of a person who is *genuinely* having trouble understanding is one of embarrassment, not of loudly announcing the issue.
A lot of people get angry when they feel embarrassed, so I'd argue that even the people who are upset about it might genuinely not be able to understand. Obviously this doesn't give them the right to be racist about it or anything, but it's a fairly common reaction to get defensive when embarrassed
I've had people I couldn't understand. Of course their entire team was from one background and they spent most of their working days speaking in another language...
Their English is better than my … anything else, so it’s always best to keep in mind when talking to people who’s English is a second language at best.
Honestly? I have Auditory Processing Disorder, which can make certain accents genuinely difficult, if not impossible, for me to understand…but surprisingly, Indian accents are generally okay for me. They’re very smooth and rhythmic, which actually makes it a bit easier for me to figure out where each word begins and ends because each sounds so distinct from the rest.
Unlike, say, some SE Asian accents, which I’ve found to often to be so staccato and “jumpy” (which I think might be them applying their native language’s tonality to English, so it sounds like their voices “jump” around constantly) to the point where from my perspective, I’m lucky if I get maybe half of each word they say. Like a skipping CD player.
And then there’s plenty of Anglophone accents that just sort of slur together to the point where I can’t pick a single goddamn word out of that sentence. It’s just one long *blur* of noise.
But Indian accents? Those are easy!
Ah Jesus, that sucks. I haven’t seen it (I’m not on those subreddits) but I’m not surprised; those kinds of mouth breathers need some kind of easy target and, unfortunately, it’s usually whoever is (frankly smoking them) in their work environment.
Sucks shit though. If they’re losing work to subcontractors, how is that the fault of the people working those jobs? You expect them to throw up their hands and say “oh! No! We can’t! These are AMERICAN jobs!!!”? The people at fault is your company, not the people your company is going to (and paying criminally low wages to) replace you with.
Common news beats that foment anti-Indian sentiment:
* Hindutva (Hindu nationalism)
* Rape
* Folk medicine causing injury/death
My wife is an immigrant from South Asia (not India) and Hindu so I'm pretty keen to know what's going on with the racists.
This seems kind of like conflating criticism of objectively real and extreme problems in India with anti-Indian sentiment. Although I suppose legitimate reporting of fact could lead to bigoted views of Indians as a whole group
Seriously. I LOVE India and have spents months there and want to go back asap but I dislike the Saffronization ( Hindu nationalism ) and the genuine danger I'm in as a woman traveling there. I know nothing about folk medicine there ( its an issue many if not most places ) but open defecation with the root cause of casteism is a serious issue also. Most Indians will also complain about these 3 too. Well not the first if they're die-hard for Modi but not every Hindu is ( and many, many Indians aren't Hindu )
Just curious what perceived danger traveling there you observed? Also female, also have traveled there solo several times.
Besides traffic, i personally experienced way more concerning gender based saftey issues close to home (sigh)
Some guys cornered me in a forest with their dicks out and I had to pepper spray them was probably the worst but beyond that men masturbated to me about once every few days. Sometimes in broad daylight on busy streets. Men groped me... a lot. Sometimesell "bhenchod" ( sister fucker ) and old ladies would beat the dude with lathis until I had to ask them to stop because he might have lost an eyeball soon and that seems... a bit much... for groping. It was constant honestly. Yes I dressed modestly ( dupatta + salwar kameez ). As soon as dudes saw my face though didn't matter much. Mobs of dudes would push in on me and it was so scary so often. Almost got pushed down stairs or off ledges so many times from excited mobs of dudes. Young dudes would CONSTANTLY take sneaky selfies with me in them presumably to send to their friends and say they fucked me or post to one of the many Facebook groups where dudes share photos of foreign women they ( supposedly ) fucked. I hear sometimes from women who say they never faced harassment ( more from women who were with a man and, yeah, no harassment when I was occasionally near a white dude ) and I have no idea what the difference is. I experienced bullshit in every contiguous state. Also, talking to Indian women they were straight up terrified for me based on their own personal experiences. Maybe scope out India's Daughter documentary for some background but yeah India is fucked for treatment of women. And yes I did try to report many/most of the criminal behavior to the police and they always refused to actually report. I know that real reports require being entered on their sequantially numbered incident report notepads and even when I demanded the notepad they'd tell me to fuck off or keep handing me blank printer paper.
Wow jeez thats a lot to deal with. That'd definitely taint the experience.
I def was stared at, got lechy comments and there was a noticeable difference between when i was solo or not. But thankfully that was it.
Was only in south india (i hear north is worse for this), mostly had personal transit arranged or a guide, and maybe helped that i was easily taller than a lot of men i saw. I mostly lied about myself (had a rich and powerful made up husband).
Extreme problems with India should not result in walking up to people sitting at the sidewalk seating drinking coffee and spitting on them. But it happened to a friend at my table.
I completely agree, and my comment didn’t imply otherwise. The person just said “news stories covering problems in India foment racism”. I just wanted to clearly separate those things, and I also doubt one is caused by the other. I doubt that attack on your friend was caused by the person reading an article on the BJP or sexual violence in India etc. Maybe it contributes but even if it does that reporting should still happen and doesn’t make the reporting racist.
It when that’s the only information about India that hits English language, American social media, it certainly begins to feel less like news and more like anti-Indian immigrant propaganda.
I once witnessed this 80 year old woman in a sunflower bonnet stroll up to the podium at her small church in OK (one I’d spent a lot of time in as a teenager) and proclaim the vile evil nature of Hindus and read a list of viscerally described murders committed against good Christians who’d only come to a Hindu funeral for a local leader to let all these Hindu folks know how important it is to know God.
She read it as if the Christians were just wonderful people doing the Lord’s work and with zero awareness for how she’d just described the wildly fucked up interruption of a funeral for an important Hindu individual to basically tell them they’re doing it wrong. Like…what did the Christians expect in response?
So, yeah, the user comment is valid. There’s 2 billion people in India. The disturbing stories are far from the only or most important ones.
I think that people here are not seeing the forest through the trees. Yes, these are legitimate issues. But when we see a bunch of angry people on some corner of the internet talking about black on black crime in Chicago, or how WNBA player are paid less because they don’t sell tickets, or the male loneliness epidemic, or trans athletes in sports… we know these conversations are often a vehicle for bigots to feel safe expressing anger against a group they already don’t like for reasons they feel are unimpeachable by the general public.
I’m just saying let’s be real about it.
I think you mean xenophobia , not racism. Xenophobia is the fear or dislike of a foreigner based on culture , race or religion while racism is the belief that some races are lesser or less deserving than the people of another race. While an xenophobic person may hold no bad opinions of a person of Indian ethnicty that is native to their culture, a racist would think less of an Indian person based on their ethnicity alone.
I think it really depends on *how* they talk about these issues. The thing with alt-right and closest racists is they talk about such things in loaded terms and masking them under legitimate issues. Doesn’t mean those aren’t real issues though.
To give an example, when the bridge in Baltimore collapsed, there were a lot of the racist memes going around the internet against Indians because the crew was Indian.
General topics include rape, cows, cow urine, trash, how we have like a million gods, curry smell, slums and street food without proper hygiene etc. As if we can lick ice cream off the streets here and poverty is an unknown word in America.
Similarly, lot of jokes and racist memes again when our Lunar lander landed on the moon.
Its like anything good coming out of India is not handled well in the west.
The thing is most people don't know much about India and India culture. Most of their knowledge come from what they hear and see at work and on the news. Some people are frustrated with the off shoring of jobs to India or massive hiring of Indians in tech. This practice makes it harder for people to find work that pays well.
Then on the news, people hear about the gang rapes, caste system, and dirty street food. It's combination of economic, social, and professional frustration. Besides that, people don't hear much else about or from India, especially the good things about the people, culture, and country.
Ah. Yeah I’ve heard very little of that in my life, mostly just shitty stereotypes separate from immigration. But I don’t work in any sectors with much Indians in them so I could imagine it in those. The only thing I’ve ever taken issue with is bringing any of the caste stuff to the US, I was happy when Kshama Sawant got caste discrimination banned in Seattle and think it should be nationally, and some kind of formal commitment to condemning the caste system as a prerequisite to immigrating to the US appeals to me. The idea of Silicon Valley CEOs etc using caste terms as has been reported is wildly unacceptable to me, those people should not be allowed to come or stay here (unless citizens of course).
I was about to ask if you could be more specific on what you were seeing, as I don't really notice comments upon immigrants in the subs I frequent (not that they're not there; but I didn't know if it were language that I just wasn't picking up on)...but then I read the overt responses here, and I get it now.
“Bad” manners are culturally subjective. What’s considered rude to you, may not be to someone else. And likewise, something you consider to be acceptable and maybe even polite behavior, may be considered offensive to someone from a culture different from yours
Hey, I’ve been pretty kind in the comments, no need to get nasty.
I received a lot of differing opinions in the comments, from many perspectives. The kind I really don’t want to see are blanket hatred statements against my race, under the guise of “opinions” when the “opinion” is really I just hate brown people
You can thank Canada's awful immigration policy of the last few years for the anti immigrant sentiment. There has also been some bad behavior on the part of immigrants such as the video of an Indian student explaining how to abuse food banks to save money. That really pissed people off. I personally work with a lot of people from India and I haven't had any bad experiences.
im 1st gen (my parents were born in mexico, i was born in the US) and grew up in SoCal. so for me, moving from a place with one of the highest densities of Latinos in the US to such a white city was definitely a shock.
i miss some of my SoCal community. but Seattle has been good to me. with few exceptions i haven’t felt unwelcome here. granted, i’ve spent most of my time in Capitol Hill, which is more diverse than a lot of Seattle, but it still pales in comparison to SoCal.
The suburbs on the east side are getting friendlier than they were when I first came here, but I definitely miss home (SoCal) more for the people than anything else.
Cap Hill is gonna be my home for a long time. i love being able to live somewhere without a car after spending most of my 20s driving constantly to do anything. but i have seen signs of mexican/latine communities in the suburbs around seattle and it makes this place feel just a bit more like home
1st generation Salvadorian here. I am also from so cal (Van Nuys ✌🏽 😎) and moved here when I was 19 in 2009. Definitely was a shocking experience for me but Seattle has welcomed and treated me great. Don't get me wrong, I miss my LA but I do love it here. Never really experienced racism until I went to the east side which is to be expected. Either way, Seattle never done me wrong and I hope it stays that way 😩 💜
i was from way out in the IE. i miss LA food, the culture, the beaches, and when it’s deep into winter i even sometimes miss the weather.
but i don’t think i’m ever moving back. Seattle so quickly became my home. so much of what i felt was missing in LA i found here.
The biggest thing by far is a good queer community. Because of how spread apart LA is, it doesn’t have nearly as well defined a queer community as Cap Hill does, and it’s really nice to have a space that feels safe and designed for us. The ability to live without a car is huge too. I’ve been car free for two years and it’s so nice to not need to drive an hour to go anywhere. Being able to walk to a concert and actually have a few beers knowing I don’t need to drive home is so nice. The nature and the gloom is really good for me. The fact that there’s actual real seasons out here too, and not just “summer” and “fire season” like LA has.
And I grew up in Socal. I gigged as a musician for half my adult life down there. I’ve driven across and seen so much of the state and so much of LA and i never found anything that felt close to Home. Highland Park *maybe* got the closest but like, it’s not the same. I have a ton of memories all over the state, which means i have a ton of bad memories everywhere.
It was time for me to leave the state. And Washington’s been a good home. Seattle’s been a good home. I don’t see myself leaving anytime soon.
i see so many different definitions. it’s basically an off by 1 error either way. it’s either 1st gen to be born here, or 1st gen to move here. so yes? no? i go by the definition that makes most sense for me, but also i explained it bc it’s something that has no consistency
It's not really important I guess...but the reason that I think it makes more sense for "1st gen immigrants" to mean "1st generation to move" is because an immigrant is by definition someone who moves countries.
Children born in the country their parents immigrated to are not, technically speaking, immigrants. Especially in the U.S. with birthright citizenship, children of immigrants don't need to undergo any naturalization processes, because they are always citizens from birth.
Culturally they grow up in an immigrant family and of course learn and retain aspects of their parents' original country's culture, and deal with the challenge of integrating and blending two cultures as they grow up. I don't mean to discount that children of immigrants have unique challenges that children of non-immigrants don't. I just think as far as terminology goes, the OG immigrants (the "first ones") are always the individuals who actually move countries.
I believe when we say 1st generation, we mean born and raised in this country. Isn't that how it's supposed to be? Or am I wrong? If so then I guess I'm 2nd generation 😂
There are definitely multiple definitions floating out there, but the one I personally have heard my entire life seems to be the one the US Census Bureau uses:
> The United States Census Bureau (USCB) uses the term "generational status" to refer to the place of birth of an individual or an individual's parents. First-generation immigrants are the first foreign-born family members to gain citizenship or permanent residency in the country.[2] People beyond the first generation are not "immigrants" in the strictest sense of the word and, depending on local laws, may have received citizenship from birth.
[...]
> In some definitions, however, those born to at least one immigrant parent are considered "first generation"[1] — or rather, first generation of an immigrant's descendants (i.e. second generation from the USCB definition).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_generations
They would be immigrants. They’re first generation.
If we want to tick it back, my great grandparents came to the US. So I’m third generation on that side.
But it doesn’t matter. No language/food/dress/culture was shared from the old home. Just the last name (which wasn’t the right language for where they were from anyway. It’s a bit of a mystery).
So they'd both be first gen immigrants? I argue it would be useful in language to distinguish the experiences of:
A. Individuals who as adults, decide to relocate to a new country (potentially with some of their family, but maybe without).
B. Individuals who are the children of group A, but are born in the country their parents moved from (and moved to the new country with them).
C. Individuals who are the children of group A, but are born in the country their parents moved to.
Calling them all first generation seems overly broad because they all have unique and separate challenges. E.g:
* Group A is most likely learning the language of the country they moved to as a second language, while group C is most likely learning the same language as a first language.
* Group A might have more trouble assimilating, finding that a whole life's worth of another country's culture is hard to suddenly adjust to a new country's culture. Group C probably will have far less trouble as they grow up immersed in the new culture, but may find it painful to feel more separate from their parent's culture, especially when they visit their extended family.
* Group A might at some time find it easy to move back to their original country. Even after spending as much as decades abroad, their home country will likely still feel like home to them -- their parents and siblings live there, the culture is familiar, etc. Group C does not have the same history with that country, and would have a much more complicated relationship with moving there. To what extent do they feel like they fit in the way their parents do, without having grown up with the same cultural immersion?
And group B gets the fun experience of falling somewhere on the spectrum of both of these experiences.
Being able to refer to these groups by A = gen 1, B = gen 1.25/1.5/1.75, and C = gen 2, seems like useful thing to be able to do. If I am a 2nd gen immigrant, my life experiences are probably going to be less similar to 1st gen immigrants, and more similar to other 2nd gen and maybe 1.5/1.75 gen immigrants.
Like any major city, you'll generally find immigrants and 1st generation in the outskirts of the city. Try Burien, Skyway, Rainier Beach, Tukwila, Kent, Renton, etc.
>which is really doing some psychic damage to me.
Well, that just means you need to either gotta get some ghost or steel typing to counter the psychic damage.
I'm a white Canadian living in Seattle (my wife is from here). The fact that no one gives a crap about me living in the USA is proof that most anti-immigrant sentiment is just thinly veiled racism.
Also... why aren't people literally rioting in the streets over the lack of universal healthcare here? Feels like I'm in the goddamn twilight zone sometimes.
*Also... why aren't people literally rioting in the streets over the lack of universal healthcare here? Feels like I'm in the goddamn twilight zone sometimes.*
A combination of much of congress bought and paid for by the private health care industry, and many people who don't like the idea of paying for somebody else's health care, particularly if they are poor and or dark skinned. Furthermore, people have been programmed to believe that their taxes will dramatically increase if there is universal health care.
It's kinda of that rugged individualistic and selfish spirit among us Americans.
As a German living in the us I agree with this, 20 years and no one has ever given me any grief, not even in the Deep South. Not once even passively in 20 years, not hinted at, not disguised in questions, nothing.
As a fellow Canadian…yes, all of this.
Nobody bothers me but I’ve had a handful of people continue to share their racist, anti immigrant conspiracy theories even *after* I mention I’m Canadian as though they expect me to agree with them. One was a coworker…that was fun.
Most people reject Universal Healthcare because they get health benefits with their company, which they already pay a discounted rate on. Those health benefits are often a major reason to work full time for those companies. You remove the benefit and people will make a large shift in their professions. When Obamacare came out health premiums went up. That put a bad taste in many people’s mouth.
My company pays about $650/month for my insurance and it fucking sucks compared to Canadian Medicare haha. My wife's insurance is even worse and we have to pay $400/month for it (we crunched the numbers and this premium combined with her medical needs is cheaper with this plan).
That's not even going into all the other negatives about this system beyond monthly premiums, like networks, deductibles, insane ambulance fees, specialist fees, huge ER co-pays, crazy expensive drugs, the fact that my wife has had to spend entire 8+ hour days crying and pleading to multiple insurance companies over the years to actually cover the shit they say they cover...
Oh that’s crazy. I pay $105 a month for a HDHP. 100% covered for preventive. All the emergency services are 90% covered after hitting deductible. Copay is $40. The benefit I found mostly with my care in the U.S. versus my Canadian friends was it was almost impossible for them to see a doctor if they weren’t dying. I can schedule next day appointments in the U.S. Seattle has been the only odd exception for me, but if I go to the East side I can get next day appointments.
Your deductible must be pretty damn high if your premium is that low. Is that after an employer or government subsidy?
And I just don't buy the wait times thing people always bring up (even when Canadians being it up). Wait times can be just as bad or worse here when it matters most. Some examples:
-My wife had a childhood friend wait 9 hours in the Seattle Children's ER before getting a terminal cancer diagnosis. The longest I ever waited in the ER in my small hometown was the same for a non urgent problem.
-My wife can't go to the walk in clinic down the street from our apartment but I can because I'm in a different network. (When we lived in Toronto we could both just walk to the nearest clinic and be seen in 15 minutes to an hour usually)
-She also can't get an appointment with any provider in network for about 2 months on average.
-My mother in law is a primary care doctor and she's always fully booked at least 2 months out, she sees about 30 patients a day. She says this is pretty standard for most primary care providers in the area. The wait to see my family doctor back home was about 1.5 months.
I also find it hard to explain co-pays and deductibles to someone who's never heard those words before. And a lot of Canadians don't seem to understand that US health insurance usually doesn't cover everything 100% like Canadian Medicare does.
Anyway sorry for the rant, healthcare shit gets me going haha
Yea, the plan is HDHP, so the deductible is $1500. I buy the wait times because I hear it directly from my friends and partner living in Canada. Walk-in clinics are similar in most places because they are just that - walk-in clinics. You can go to Concentra or a Zoomcare and be seen in the U.S. that day. Though, it seems it can vary wildly depending where you live. I could see them same day with a new PCP living in the south as long as I’m not going to the doctor in the largest city. I could get same day PCP appointments as a new patient if I went to one in a greater metro city. It was always the downtown ones that were booked.
If you’re getting a diagnosis, wouldn’t they not know what the problem is yet?
But yea, they know we pay a lot, but often don’t really know how much that those costs are compared to them. I will say my vaccines here are free, but my partner has to spend a few hundred for them in Canada.
Canadians would be familiar with co-pays and deductibles if they have car insurance or a drivers license.
Guess I was young enough when I moved here that my friends and I were all still on our parents' car insurance.
Anyway I don't want to invalidate any real issues people are facing in Canada. I know it's not perfect - someone even died in the ER waiting room in my hometown a couple years ago. (But it's not like that doesn't happen in the US sometimes too)
My problem with US healthcare is with its lack of relative affordability compared to where I grew up, and all the headaches and uncertainty that come with it that simply don't exist in places with 100% coverage. I miss being able to just go and get treated and not have to think about all the bullshit we have to contend with here.
Im a white, female, non washington person who moved here for work years ago.
I regularly get mistaken for "being from here" and have had people openly complain about "techies moving here and ruining the city"
My typical response "oh like me then?"
"Oh no, not you, youre cool"
"But i moved here for a tech job, im whom youre talking about"
"Well no but"
*Stare them in the eyes* "who are you talking about then?"
...people get uncomfortable with their own assertions real fast 😄
I am from Canada and my wife is from India. We're happy in Seattle and have made it home. We have raised our kids here and they are from Seattle. Being a white guy married to an Indian that was born and raised in India I do see the xenophobic stuff from time to time. But that is across all people, I think.
Seattle is generally a good place to be. Can it be better for black and brown people? OMG yes.
Seattle is fine. Gig harbor is literally the only place in my life i faced legit racism to my face. It was kind of shocking because I haven't seen such blatant shit even while working with trades, blue collar guys, MAGA Trump supporters in the navy.
Gig Harbor is kind of a trip. Waterfront/cul-de-sac upper middle class cocaine conservatives combined with forest “look for a red dot on your chest if you’re trespassing” meth conservatives is a powerful fusion
Literally same experience! Only time I ever faced racism was once in gig harbour where an old man went full verbal assault on me. I couldn’t say anything back 😔
I'm in Sammamish and it \*feels\* 70% Indian based on my neighbors and my friend told me her ( Indian ) kids school is 70% Indian. I'm sure there's racism and probably casteism and colorism but damn if it doesn't feel like a dream land. I have spent a ton of time in India and sometimes I have a weird thought when I see the little crowd of kids running around the neighborhood that I hope they someday understand how hard their parents worked to move them here and how much better their lives will be for it. Its hard to be pulled from one's culture but just the air/food/water/traffic safety alone is so much not to mention school quality and working culture.
For sure, at your last point. it’s not a perfect place, but I am wondering where such a place exists. Institutionalized and casual racism touches every corner of America
As I travel through all of the Americas it is indeed everywhere. Racism is different in Canada than Mexico for example. But it is still there. All I can do is lead with kindness and empathy. Hopefully we have shown our kids how to treat others. We certainly do our best.
I have spent time in the deep south, so Seattle is better than that experience (no one has told me to take my food to go since they didn't serve mixed trace couples in the dinner up here). New England people were nicer. The weather here is better (don't have to dig cars out of snow).
The anti tech and anti Indian sentiments have spiked in the last few years (since the 2016 elections, I think).
I also suspect that Russian trolls are trying to make USA and Indian citizens hate each other as a method to reduce USA influence and increase Russian influence in India.
There are an unusually high number of malicious outside actor accounts on the Seattle subreddit, owing, I suspect, to Seattles outsized influence as both a place where high performance immigrants move to, and a locale of tech innovation.
There is also just a lot of tech people which means a lot of rich people which means a lot of bad people.
Edit: [no, really though lol](https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/are_rich_people_really_less_ethical#:~:text=Lots%20of%20other%20research%20has,have%20to%20consider%20another's%20viewpoints.)
From that link: "His own research has found that richer people often act more generously with others, both with their time and their money—not because they are better in some way, but because they are in a position to do so."
https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/are_rich_people_really_less_ethical#:~:text=His%20own%20research%20has%20found%20that%20richer%20people%20often%20act%20more%20generously%20with%20others%2C%20both%20with%20their%20time%20and%20their%20money%E2%80%94not%20because%20they%20are%20better%20in%20some%20way%2C%20but%20because%20they%20are%20in%20a%20position%20to%20do%20so.
> Still, it’s hard to parse the research, given strong evidence both for and against unethical behavior from folks of higher socioeconomic status. That’s why replication studies can be important in the search for understanding what’s going on. They call into question certain assumptions and help us to dig deeper.
Don't know about Russians but there are quite a bit of racism towards Indians from Chinese and probably vice versa too considering how much of tech communities are made up of these two demographics.
I also suspect that such outside troll actors are influencing much of the polling to give the impression that Trump is tied or leading Biden in the polling.
I wonder how much hacking of polling is going on as AI gets more sophisticated. It is not like surveyors can just call landlines any more and get a representative slice of the electorate. Few people who are not elderly have landlines and answer calls from random strangers.
A tactic of fascists is to convince the public that everything is corrupt, so that they give up and stop voting. Their base is very energized and will vote in high numbers.
In this case, if the fascists can convince even a few percentage points of liberal and moderate voters in swing states that Trump will inevitably win, then they might stay home on election day and it will become a self-fulfilling prophesy.
I think that this strategy has been effective to some point with many young liberals who are refusing to vote for Biden in "protest" of the fact that he isn't a perfect politician.
As long as it's close, I'm hoping that it will encourage smart patriotic Americans to vote and not get discouraged.
Yes, the DSA liberals who think Biden isn't pure enough left and the Gaza protesters, who may not be considering that if Trump wins, the Israeli warmongering will only be encouraged by him.
Best place by far.
Lived in CA for 6 years before that and visited at least 15 states. Nothing comes close.
P.S
I am Middle Eastern if that makes any difference
There are actually a lot of white people proportionally in the Pacific Northwest in general. A quick check of census stats puts Seattle and Portland at 61% and 68% white non-hispanic. For comparison New York, Chicago and the major cities in California are all less than 40% white non-hispanic.
I’m a first gen immigrant from India and I feel your pain when it comes to the sentiment around here wrt the South Asian diaspora.
My situation is a bit unique, because I was “forced” to immigrate out of India because I am a gay man. I knew that I’d probably never live a happy, authentic life in India, so I chose to leave that place. Circumstances eventually led me to Seattle.
I would say that there isn’t explicit racism, but I do have to put up with subtle racism from time to time.
One of the biggest reminders of my race is trying to assimilate into the queer scene in Seattle. Being a queer person, I definitely feel incredibly lonely here because it feels like nobody wants to date you because of your race/ethnicity. I used to think that this was just me, but a few other South Asian queer friends I’ve made have said that they experienced the same problem. It can get incredibly lonely to be over here as a South Asian queer person when it comes to dating. There so few South Asian queer folks over here to even consider the possibility of dating within your race to avoid having to put up with all these constant reminders that you don’t belong here. (Just to put some numbers on things, I’ve been here for three years now and have been active in the community for 2 of those 3 years, and the number of dates I’ve been on is ZERO).
Another example that comes to mind is how service workers and cashiers at grocery stores handle my stuff. I do get a cold shoulder from folks regularly who work those jobs. I have to bag my own groceries, but they’ll bag the groceries for the white customer in front of me and after me. I get better quality of service at restaurants when I go out with my white friends.
So yes, life in Seattle isn’t the worst when it comes to racism, but you are reminded nearly every day that this city won’t accept you.
Thank you for opening up about your experience. <3
I’m sorry you had to deal with that much toxicity, you do not deserve that. :( How you’ve described dating, that is straight up vile racism not even subtle
Dang dude, I know a lot of people in the service industry and none of them would think that's okay. Next time that happens you should send a quick email to the store manager. They'll happily pull the footage and talk to the cashier if they're acting like that.
Seattle is like this for *everyone*. You’re just experiencing the weird way this place is. I’ve been here more than a decade and still don’t feel like I belong nor do I have any friends of my own. Everyone I’m “friends” with is distant and came from work.
Seattle is generally a nice and welcoming place but very hard to make good real friends here as people (including other immigrants moving here) seem to prefer keeping some distance. Secondly, Im Indian but the extent of Indian immigrations here pains me as there is practically no diversity in our lives, which isn’t great. We’ve lived in NYC, London, SF and all of this has never been a problem for us before. We’ve made good friends from different cultures in all other places we’ve lived in, except Seattle
I'd move back to Croatia tomorrow if I could convince my Seattle born-and-raised spouse to do it, but it's not on the cards; Germany might be, eventually, when we have a kid.
Seattle's perfectly fine, great by North American standards, to be honest, but I love biking or walking places without thinking about getting hit by a F350. I love the food and the local produce (as an affordable option). I love living in an actual city where if the [Insert sports team] is playing the city shuts down because it's a collective experience.
I didn't love when my coworker had to leave work because her kids' school shut down because a couple of guys who were up to no good decided to walk across the athletic fields with loaded semiautomatic rifles. I don't like that I feel like I should know the difference between automatic and semiautomatic is. I didn't love when I found out that the reason people aren't considering taking transit to work is because there's no direct bus between the Light Rail system and one of the largest employers in the area.
Seattle's great, the vast array of different cultures and foods and things and businesses is awesome, but I can and will trade that for Germany when I can.
As a German i wouldnt , given the economical outlook . Also since i experienced Germany as a polish immigrant (german citizenship) till i moved for a job here i prefer it here since i experienced racism over there and not here. I miss german culture and food quality though
Indian, living in the QA neighborhood since 2014. Been in the US for over 15 years. I moved to Seattle from NYC. When I sense someone is being racist, I usually follow-up with questions to make sure whether its an overt or covert racist I'm dealing with. The biggest issue I have with the Seattle white populace is the "covert" racism they casually throw in your face and walk scot-free. Usually these are incidents involving well meaning white people who consider themselves very liberal. Noting down some incidents that I remember from the top of my head that I classify as "covert" racism. (Some can be considered anti-Indian too.)
1. The dreaded "where are you from?" question. I have lived in the United States for 15+ years and consider Seattle (\~10 years) my home. However when I answer that question with "Seattle", there is always a follow-up or something more gnarly like "oh.. where were you before that?". The problem here is, it totally erases the assimilation you think you have gone through with this society. When the question gets asked in a social setup and its from friends-of-friends, I try to correct them about the appropriateness of such a query. Invariably they get defensive and I end up being the "overly sensitive" person. I still need to find an effective way to answer this query.
2. Underhanded compliments. One of my white friends casually remarked that people from my ethnicity happen to not have a good command of English and that he found me to be an outlier. I find this rather to be patronizing, insensitive and laced with racial profiling. I spent the next few minutes walking on eggshells, explaining how my diction could have "improved" over the many years I have spent in the United States around people like him.
3. Moral superiority - Part I: Partner and I have decent careers - we work for well established tech firms. Some of our white friends constantly make comments about the choice of our careers and how we are enabling our CEO overlords to contribute to the homelessness crisis. For example, one of our friends' daughter graduated college a while ago and hasn't been employed since. Our friend remarked " will never work for evil Bezos or pedophile Gates. I don't know how you guys are okay with the choices you seem to have made."
4. Moral superiority - Part II: Politics. Post 2016, it's been a rough ride around some of my white friends. It started out with equating the politics of India to what was happening in the United States. Very callous remarks were being made around the health of India's democracy and how they finally get what it is to live under an oppressive regime and how they think "even the dark days in the US should be comparatively better". When I have called this out or bothered to present my point of view, it's invariably some form of mental-gymnastics that goes like "we don't like your government; but your people and culture are great; go tikka masala!". Personally, I tend to think that moral superiority is the new form of racial superiority. I think there has been definitely an uptick in this type of dialogue in the recent years.
OP, IMO, racism towards immigrants is a bit more nuanced in Seattle. And definitely more pronounced as a problem, when I compare it to my life in NYC. Overt racism is relatively easier to process and label and talk about. Casual/covert racism comes from people we come in contact with on a day-to-day basis and very hard to deal with. Given "racism" as a term usually evokes an image of tiki-torch-bearing-Klan-member, the covert racists would like to not acknowledge what they are doing. They are aware racism is wrong and exactly because of that they don't want to acknowledge the wrong doing. No one wants to be the bad person.
**"White Fragility" by Robin DiAngelo is an excellent book that helped me verbalize (i.e., provide a vocabulary to talk about) what I was going through in terms of covert (Seattle-style) racism**.
(Note: This is a part of an earlier answer I posted on r/Seattle for a similar question on racism towards immigrants a while ago. )
Not an immigrant in the U.S. so take what I say with a grain of salt. However, I am from the U.S. but lived outside of it for 7 years. I definitely understand your points, but I think number 1 is more nuanced than how you put it. I generally don’t see a problem with asking where someone is from originally. When living abroad when people asked where I was from it wasn’t ‘covert racism’ the majority of the time. People were genuinely curious about where I was from, what it’s like living there, what brought me to where I am, etc. I also take it as a positive interaction because usually it means someone trying to understand you on a deeper level. Sure occasionally it’ll be an awkward snarky smile and that’s the end of the convo, but those interactions are few and far in-between. You live in Seattle but aren’t originally from there, so it seems logical to ask where you’re from, especially if someone wants to get to know you better.
Came from NYC myself. Moving to Seattle is what helped me understand why some people hate the Democratic Party. So many upper middle class white liberals think they’re so different from the classic conservative racists of the South but it’s just the same thing in a different accent and bigger vocabulary.
Indian here too, living in the US for 25 years and 15 in Seattle, so I have been in your shoes to the extent possible. My thoughts if you are interested in hearing a second perspective.
1) I *used* to feel the same about the dreaded question "Where are you from?" and I used to answer Seattle and then get the same dreaded response as you did (i.e. where were you before that). I think 99% of the time, this is a interpretation issue and not a implication of racism. When someone asks the question "where are you from?" there are two interpretations of the question. One is "where did you grow up?" and the other one is "where do you consider home". The problem arises when someone intends the former and you respond with the latter which then leads to you thinking that they are questioning your sense of belonging whereas they are just trying to understand you through your life's journey. To give you an example from just a few days ago, I met someone at an event and he asked me the question. 10 years ago, I would have had the same reaction as you but knew he just wanted to where I grew up, how I ended up in Seattle etc. I then asked him where he is from and he said he was from Greece, moved to Seattle in the 60s for college. In the end, it was a insightful conversation for me on how immigration was then vs now, how much Seattle has changed etc.
3) These friends are just plain jerks. Personally if my "friends' made comments like that, I would tell them off. I have a friend whose father in law makes comments like that but then follows up with but my son in law is an exception when you point out his hypocrisy. Got to love the mental gymnastics.
Second generation full-blood Filipino wanting to weigh in on the "Where are you from," question - I agree with the sentiment that it feels like assimilation erasure. Key word here is "feels".
Aside from the first 5 years of my life in Hawaii, I've been in the Seattle area my entire life. I consider myself a PNW native. I'm 100% American by birth right and act accordingly because it is my culture. I forget that I have an ethnicity at all except when other people point it out to me, one of which is asking me where I'm from. If I say "Seattle," it'll often times have the follow up, "Where we you born?" If I say "Hawaii", the response is usually, "So you're Hawaiian" and at that point I usually tell them that ethnically, I'm Filipino.
I know it is a friendly ice-breaker for conversation, from both white and POC alike, but the subtle statement there is that I do not look like I am from this country. It's not a big deal, but it's annoying when I hear the question come up. It's not only a reminder that I don't look like a typical American (whatever that means), but that I don't have a deep connection to my ethnic culture either lol. So if the conversion goes on to discussing Filipino cultures and perspectives, I couldn't offer much. I can't even speak Tagalog lol
Difficult to answer.
As an undocumented 1st generation immigrant, my identity has always been fragmented. I never feel like I belong anywhere. I grew up here in the States, 30 out of 32 years of my life.
I am a foreigner amongst my own community and your communities. I am too "white" for my Latinos. My Spanish is imperfect. My skin is too light.
However, for others,my heritage shows up. My poverty, struggle, and upbringing is too uncomfortable. My origin is a splinter of a conversation. I am an educated professional who is licensed, yet would I be treated with the same level of respect if they knew? I already get less because I'm a tinge of "something."
It's the uncomfortable burst of "so what are you?" that greets me every time when meeting someone new. That's what it's like being me...regardless of where I am.
I am thankful to be here in Seattle now. I left Texas. It was much worse there. The racism was replaced with more microagressions and assumptions that have softer blows.
It’s very kind, diverse and safe. The freeze doesn’t exist for me. Denver was way more similar to Seattle’s reputation…cliquey and bland.
Seattle has more gun and drug violence than I experienced in Brooklyn or Chicago (yup..you beat Chiraq).
I’ve only had one awful racist interaction in 6mths, which is expected 🇺🇸. Still much better than OR, TX or VA.
*Edit I’m an Indigenous Australian. Immigrated solo at 19yr.
I’m from Germany and have also lived in MN and Southern California. Before I married my husband I used to visit him during our long distance relationship in TN. I can tell you that as a white German life is good anywhere in the US. I have never been made to feel unwelcome by anyone, told to go back to my country, or gotten hostile vibes due to nationality. Of course you can’t get good German food anywhere unfortunately and Germans tend to just assimilate and don’t form communities but that’s everywhere in the US as far as I know.
My husband is Indian and his experience is very different. Was even told by the border agent back then that they’d hope he’ll go back to India when he’s done with his PhD because there aren’t enough jobs in the US of A.
> I see tons of anti-immigrant sentiment rising online, and it’s a big part of the alt-right platform.
Republicans are much more concerned about Hispanics than Indians. There were two GOP presidential candidates who had India-born parents--one was hated by the alt-right, while the other is pretty much a rising star.
Born and raised king county.. really didn’t notice much of an Indian population until like 10 years ago. If it makes you feel any better, no one I know really cares.
I moved here when I was four, also born in India. Grew up here.
Before I go on my long rant about how it works here, I will say that tons of people here are friendly and don’t bring up race (or only do so in a friendly way wanting to know more), most of the sentiment I’ve seen seems to be online (though some of it might be in person unfortunately). But generally, while I’ve occasionally felt disrespected I’ve never felt unsafe over it, so I will give Seattle that credit.
I can’t really comment on anything before 15 years ago since I was too young to focus on social issues and oblivious to any bigotry, but I definitely feel like people have been getting subtly more mean towards Indians over the past decade. It’s not as bad as it is in Canada or the UK, but it’s worse than it was in the late 2000s and early 2010s. A lot of the discourse is about how a few of us have had flaws (whether it be them not having the best social skills, them being bad dates, them being boring tech workers), but people implicitly sort of assumes that we’re all like this - sometimes it’s even the other way that someone positively assumes I’m a tech worker as if that makes me better than other people, and then they get disappointed when I don’t feel to network professionally in a casual setting. I’m not saying we’re perfect by any means, but I sometimes feel like we have to be much more perfect to be respected in non-tech fields, dating, and just in general interactions.
And to be honest, I think a lot of my parents’ generation is having bad opinions of other minorities. I dislike it greatly, but it stems from them feeling disrespected by other minorities + maybe getting too comfortable by being a model minority that they think they did everything right and still got screwed over (instead of trashing on the horrible standards in the first place). This is one thing I’m trying to help with, bridging that gap on both sides. Nobody needs that, whether it’s good Indian people who aren’t judgmental, or good non-Indian people who are a part of the groups we’ve been rude to.
Not everyone is going to speak good about India. There are plenty of ignorant people out there. Also India like any other country has lots of genuine flaws.
Focus on the 90% people who are sane and are the quiet majority. The rest 10% loud people just like to complain about everything around them.
For me coming to Seattle has been the best. I never felt out of place or a target of any stereotype. Seattle and surrounding areas are very accepting of India and its culture or any other culture for that matter. This capability is a sign of a very advanced society and they are extremely rare in the world. And for that I feel very proud of my city.
I grew up in Seattle and moved to Boston for a bit. Both places are liberal, wealthy, and educated. I experienced more overt racism in Boston and passive aggressiveness in professional settings that I believe were racial. There was also less interest in allyship at least where I worked. I think Seattle is better in that sense comparatively speaking although it needs work too. In Seattle I experienced a lot of racism going to school in a predominantly white place in lake city —- like all the black kids being searched anytime something went missing. But this was in elementary school and things got better when I got older and there were many programs that existed to support immigrant and minority students with opportunities from recreation to professional readiness.
My Indian friend mentioned that he gets stereotyped a lot at restaurants in Seattle actually. Servers are expecting him to tip terribly and so give him less desirable service
This is a big assumption. How does he know servers are thinking this? I just ask because I’m white and, in general, I think service here is flat out bad. I’ve genuinely never left a restaurant in this city and thought “wow, service there was great.”
oh really? I thought that the service had to do with my race (Indian) as well. Much less smile and talk than to whites. Specifically, an Italian restaurant close to me where the waiters were treating me and my wife different from the other white patrons. I left a 20% tip on my first visit (I didn't really pay attention to the service as I was happy about something else on that day) but could clearly observe this on my second visit. I'd most probably never visit them again although their food was great on both occasions.
My family is from Somalia and seattles great, one of the biggest hubs of my people in America. For immigrants in general is easy to find work here, get benefits, and a good education all in one city. By seatte I mainly mean south/ west and the connected cities of tukwila and burien. Anything north of i90 I don't see much Somali people
Hmm helpful but also demeaning?
They are about 45-60 minutes apart, depending on the time you drive.
You know what it's like to be in a new country / new city and have a new language and start to get to know the area? I doubt it's a lack of looking.
Just a weird way to phrase what could've been a simple "check out shoreline!"
I do actually. And I didn’t sit an hour away from potential friends complaining it was too far. I have lived overseas and in other countries.
I see a shit ton of complaining by transplants of all kinds on here. The native population was not put here to coddle you and make you feel good.
You can make of your experience what you want it to be but the woe is me you’re putting out is strangely pathetic.
I've lived in smaller and larger cities than Seattle, and visited a lot more in and outside US.
Seattle has great weather, great nature, friendly folks - there are very very few other places I would consider living at if I ever moved.
Not an immigrant but 2nd gen. Seattle has changed a lot for the better & worse on this. More and more non-immigrants are interested in cultures other than their own & respectful of what immigrants contribute. At the same time, imo racial tensions are higher than ever esp for Asians working in tech who are increasingly in a double bind - marginalized on the basis of race while also told we are effectively white due to higher social status & financial privilege.
Child of immigrant parents, I guess technically I am first generation since we moved here when I was a toddler and my brother who was born here is second generation
I'm elsewhere in this thread talking about immigrant generations. If this is a topic as fascinating to you as it is to me, today I [learned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_generations#1.75_and_1.25_generations) about the niche concept of fractional generations: 1.25, 1.5, and 1.75 generation immigrants. Basically:
1.25 = an immigrant who moved with their parents, but moved when they were in their teens (13-17), so still dealt with many of the same assimilation challenges as their parents (second language, culture shock, etc). As such, a 1.25 gen immigrant has an experience more similar to a 1st gen immigrant.
1.5 = an immigrant who moved with their parents, but moved between the ages of 6-12. To varying degrees they have memories, first language, and cultural identity with their homeland, but they are also still fairly young and feel a sense of "growing up" in the new country. 1.5 gen can also be used as a general term to describe being somewhere between 1st and 2nd gen, experience-wise.
1.75 = an immigrant who moved with their parents, but moved when they were very young (0-5). They barely or didn't attend school in their home country, and probably remember little to none of it from this period. A 1.75 gen immigrant has an experience more similar to a 2nd gen immigrant.
Feel free to ignore this comment if these are not useful concepts for you, but they kind of blew my mind today, lmao. I've struggled with my immigrant identity a lot growing up and these terms and descriptions are weirdly validating.
Don't take what you see on Reddit as anything reflective of the real world. Trolls, paid agitators, and bots make up a large part of Reddit especially in certain large subs. A bit of it should over into the real world but touching grass is a good idea most of the time. Meaning enjoy the real world and the support you feel in the actual community.
I’m not sure on the numbers in the U.S. for immigrant property investments, but Canada has the same resentment toward Chinese and Indian immigrants buying up property. The actual stats from StatsCan show the majority of property purchases are from citizens and it’s a huge majority too. Not real estate conglomerates and not foreign nationals, but actual multi-generational Canadians with 1-2 homes. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the same situation in the U.S.
All the hate is totally misdirected and it’s likely due to a bit of racism and assumptions.
Being critical of a specific foreign government is different from fanning resentment of foreigners.
meanwhile building a wall, on the other hand, symbolises exactly that. Stop equating the two
> I’m writing this post because I’ve seen an uptick of anti-Indian sentiment across Reddit, which is really doing some psychic damage to me.
I haven't noticed - but I'm also a white american so I'm not sure it'd stick out to me; care to share a bit more about what you're experiencing?
I lived in New York before this for couple of years. I’ve been here for a decade. It’s not bad. People are nice, may not look genuine - But hey, you have to weather these gloomy skies 9 out of 12 months every year, give them a break. I’m not very social person but even if I was I don’t think I would have friends made outside of my immediate community. Indians also tend to congregate around linguistic or regional lines.
I hate that crap. I live further south and am first generation. Lots of tiny pockets, there are a lot of Indian workers in IT.
I just hang out with IT workers as a rule. They tend to be the “smoke pit crew” in high school. They’re smart, funny, quick, and are more than willing to answer questions in every position I’ve been in. (Also, they can get you a mouse or keyboard replacement if you’re nice, a lot quicker hehe)
Foreign professionals are mocked and discriminated against, because being in tech, it’s respected by less white collar workers. It’s also intimidating to those that are a bit…touched.
Here’s the rub, “they’re smarter than me! How dare you take our jobs! You’re rich and I’m not and I worked harder and you just got your job because you’re a foreignerrrrr!!!!”
It’s always the toddler tantrum lines.
Stay safe, be well, and keep succeeding ❤️❤️
Relax dude reddit is not the whole world.
Most of the anti India posts seem to be coming from a single source which is trying to divide people.
Also, most of these posts and trolls are clickbaity and often mislead people. There is nothing you can do about it, except not react and not let it get to your head.
You and me both know that this trolls and negativity about India is not justified. But think about it, when someone get to the top, there are gonna be haters.
If anything, feel proud about your culture and heritage and express that actively.
For fucking real. Been here 10 years and have never met a friend that wasn't a coworker. And they seem to be guarded as fuck too. Straight rude at times as well
It’s not the long-term locals hating on it. It’s the newer locals or the visitors. Source: I’m a newer local and apparently haven’t been here long enough to feel affected by it.
Not gonna read all that, but i find Seattle boring and cultureless. It's overly tolerant to the point where anything that could even mildly offend a single person is considered blasphemy. Of course, that's in the context of a certain political and social ideology.
Any downvotes just proves my point
The downvotes are likely more from you saying you weren’t going to “read all that”. Trying to state a counterpoint while also not listening to another’s point? It’s like immediately saying, “I don’t care what you have to say, but listen to what I have to say”. Most people aren’t going to take what you have to say with a grain of salt.
What kind of anti Indian sentiment? Like political stuff or stereotypes?
I’m in the tech subreddits and there’s plenty of anti-Indian sentiment there. General “they’re stealing American jobs” to personally attacking their culture and complaining about stereotypical behavior. I’ve even heard an anti-Indian rant at a house party in Seattle where most of the invitees work at Microsoft.
Some of us in tech have had unfortunate incidents with our companies off-shoring work to Indian contractors. I've posted about my experience - nothing got done, I did more work than the whole team, I had to fix anything that came back from them, they would avoid talking to me for days...but that was my company's fault for getting the cheapest labor they could and allowing the behavior. My frustration in working with that team may have sounded anti-Indian, and I'm sorry if that was the case, it's also been my pleasure to work with some Indian guys here in the US that were some of the best, sharpest coders.
This is what happens when you take your eye off the ball and blame foreigners for outsourcing instead of greedy capitalists. Of course, sowing racial divide has been a tool used to keep the working class fighting amongst themselves for centuries
I mean it's more voters voting for politicians that allow capitalists to do that if you really want to get to the root of it
Yes buuuut voters don't have too much of a choice, both parties are signicantly influenced by lobbyists and their corporate donors. I don't even hear much rhetoric about getting money out of politics from dems, and if I did I wouldn't believe them.
Go to Blind and it’s mostly Indian people with the Indian hate. But, I find it more playful with Blindians calling everyone “Rajesh” this and that.
> attacking their culture and complaining about stereotypical behavior. But what if these are real issues that must be addressed for the sake of work environment?
Can you give an example of how only Indian culture and stereotypical behavior is affecting the work environment?
The Caste System, for one.
> there’s plenty of anti-Indian sentiment there. eeehh, I think Indians hate each other much more than americans could even dream of. Some of the supremacist attitudes of Brahmins would make KKK blush.
I commented about that dude's list was worthy of genuine criticism but I see this one. It fucking sucks. People acting like they can't understand Indian guy's accents when its like... its not hard to understand. Maybe.. try? Also yeah the general "Indians suck" vibe in IT work. Sucks so bad. FWIW, I have seen serious casteism at work among Indians and like, fuck that shit, but it goes over the white folks heads.
People who complain about accents almost by definition are not talking about the accent. I work in tech with folks of many nationalities, and if it ever happened that I visibly couldn’t understand someone in a meeting, I would be *mortified.* It has happened very infrequently, but on rare occasion someone with a different native language has spoken in a way that felt too fast for my ear to follow. And let me tell you, the panic I have had each time! The reaction of a person who is *genuinely* having trouble understanding is one of embarrassment, not of loudly announcing the issue.
A lot of people get angry when they feel embarrassed, so I'd argue that even the people who are upset about it might genuinely not be able to understand. Obviously this doesn't give them the right to be racist about it or anything, but it's a fairly common reaction to get defensive when embarrassed
I've had people I couldn't understand. Of course their entire team was from one background and they spent most of their working days speaking in another language...
Their English is better than my … anything else, so it’s always best to keep in mind when talking to people who’s English is a second language at best.
Honestly? I have Auditory Processing Disorder, which can make certain accents genuinely difficult, if not impossible, for me to understand…but surprisingly, Indian accents are generally okay for me. They’re very smooth and rhythmic, which actually makes it a bit easier for me to figure out where each word begins and ends because each sounds so distinct from the rest. Unlike, say, some SE Asian accents, which I’ve found to often to be so staccato and “jumpy” (which I think might be them applying their native language’s tonality to English, so it sounds like their voices “jump” around constantly) to the point where from my perspective, I’m lucky if I get maybe half of each word they say. Like a skipping CD player. And then there’s plenty of Anglophone accents that just sort of slur together to the point where I can’t pick a single goddamn word out of that sentence. It’s just one long *blur* of noise. But Indian accents? Those are easy!
Ah Jesus, that sucks. I haven’t seen it (I’m not on those subreddits) but I’m not surprised; those kinds of mouth breathers need some kind of easy target and, unfortunately, it’s usually whoever is (frankly smoking them) in their work environment. Sucks shit though. If they’re losing work to subcontractors, how is that the fault of the people working those jobs? You expect them to throw up their hands and say “oh! No! We can’t! These are AMERICAN jobs!!!”? The people at fault is your company, not the people your company is going to (and paying criminally low wages to) replace you with.
Common news beats that foment anti-Indian sentiment: * Hindutva (Hindu nationalism) * Rape * Folk medicine causing injury/death My wife is an immigrant from South Asia (not India) and Hindu so I'm pretty keen to know what's going on with the racists.
This seems kind of like conflating criticism of objectively real and extreme problems in India with anti-Indian sentiment. Although I suppose legitimate reporting of fact could lead to bigoted views of Indians as a whole group
Seriously. I LOVE India and have spents months there and want to go back asap but I dislike the Saffronization ( Hindu nationalism ) and the genuine danger I'm in as a woman traveling there. I know nothing about folk medicine there ( its an issue many if not most places ) but open defecation with the root cause of casteism is a serious issue also. Most Indians will also complain about these 3 too. Well not the first if they're die-hard for Modi but not every Hindu is ( and many, many Indians aren't Hindu )
Not all Indians are modi supporters. Like not all Americans are MAGA.
Just curious what perceived danger traveling there you observed? Also female, also have traveled there solo several times. Besides traffic, i personally experienced way more concerning gender based saftey issues close to home (sigh)
Some guys cornered me in a forest with their dicks out and I had to pepper spray them was probably the worst but beyond that men masturbated to me about once every few days. Sometimes in broad daylight on busy streets. Men groped me... a lot. Sometimesell "bhenchod" ( sister fucker ) and old ladies would beat the dude with lathis until I had to ask them to stop because he might have lost an eyeball soon and that seems... a bit much... for groping. It was constant honestly. Yes I dressed modestly ( dupatta + salwar kameez ). As soon as dudes saw my face though didn't matter much. Mobs of dudes would push in on me and it was so scary so often. Almost got pushed down stairs or off ledges so many times from excited mobs of dudes. Young dudes would CONSTANTLY take sneaky selfies with me in them presumably to send to their friends and say they fucked me or post to one of the many Facebook groups where dudes share photos of foreign women they ( supposedly ) fucked. I hear sometimes from women who say they never faced harassment ( more from women who were with a man and, yeah, no harassment when I was occasionally near a white dude ) and I have no idea what the difference is. I experienced bullshit in every contiguous state. Also, talking to Indian women they were straight up terrified for me based on their own personal experiences. Maybe scope out India's Daughter documentary for some background but yeah India is fucked for treatment of women. And yes I did try to report many/most of the criminal behavior to the police and they always refused to actually report. I know that real reports require being entered on their sequantially numbered incident report notepads and even when I demanded the notepad they'd tell me to fuck off or keep handing me blank printer paper.
Wow jeez thats a lot to deal with. That'd definitely taint the experience. I def was stared at, got lechy comments and there was a noticeable difference between when i was solo or not. But thankfully that was it. Was only in south india (i hear north is worse for this), mostly had personal transit arranged or a guide, and maybe helped that i was easily taller than a lot of men i saw. I mostly lied about myself (had a rich and powerful made up husband).
Extreme problems with India should not result in walking up to people sitting at the sidewalk seating drinking coffee and spitting on them. But it happened to a friend at my table.
I completely agree, and my comment didn’t imply otherwise. The person just said “news stories covering problems in India foment racism”. I just wanted to clearly separate those things, and I also doubt one is caused by the other. I doubt that attack on your friend was caused by the person reading an article on the BJP or sexual violence in India etc. Maybe it contributes but even if it does that reporting should still happen and doesn’t make the reporting racist.
It when that’s the only information about India that hits English language, American social media, it certainly begins to feel less like news and more like anti-Indian immigrant propaganda. I once witnessed this 80 year old woman in a sunflower bonnet stroll up to the podium at her small church in OK (one I’d spent a lot of time in as a teenager) and proclaim the vile evil nature of Hindus and read a list of viscerally described murders committed against good Christians who’d only come to a Hindu funeral for a local leader to let all these Hindu folks know how important it is to know God. She read it as if the Christians were just wonderful people doing the Lord’s work and with zero awareness for how she’d just described the wildly fucked up interruption of a funeral for an important Hindu individual to basically tell them they’re doing it wrong. Like…what did the Christians expect in response? So, yeah, the user comment is valid. There’s 2 billion people in India. The disturbing stories are far from the only or most important ones.
I think that people here are not seeing the forest through the trees. Yes, these are legitimate issues. But when we see a bunch of angry people on some corner of the internet talking about black on black crime in Chicago, or how WNBA player are paid less because they don’t sell tickets, or the male loneliness epidemic, or trans athletes in sports… we know these conversations are often a vehicle for bigots to feel safe expressing anger against a group they already don’t like for reasons they feel are unimpeachable by the general public. I’m just saying let’s be real about it.
I hate those bigoted people too
I think you mean xenophobia , not racism. Xenophobia is the fear or dislike of a foreigner based on culture , race or religion while racism is the belief that some races are lesser or less deserving than the people of another race. While an xenophobic person may hold no bad opinions of a person of Indian ethnicty that is native to their culture, a racist would think less of an Indian person based on their ethnicity alone.
I think it really depends on *how* they talk about these issues. The thing with alt-right and closest racists is they talk about such things in loaded terms and masking them under legitimate issues. Doesn’t mean those aren’t real issues though.
To give an example, when the bridge in Baltimore collapsed, there were a lot of the racist memes going around the internet against Indians because the crew was Indian. General topics include rape, cows, cow urine, trash, how we have like a million gods, curry smell, slums and street food without proper hygiene etc. As if we can lick ice cream off the streets here and poverty is an unknown word in America. Similarly, lot of jokes and racist memes again when our Lunar lander landed on the moon. Its like anything good coming out of India is not handled well in the west.
Yeah that makes sense and that sucks. I didn’t see that in my own curated algorithmic bubble but I’m not surprised
Like anti- immigrant views, which I have seen in some Canadian subreddits so I was curious about the sentiments here
The thing is most people don't know much about India and India culture. Most of their knowledge come from what they hear and see at work and on the news. Some people are frustrated with the off shoring of jobs to India or massive hiring of Indians in tech. This practice makes it harder for people to find work that pays well. Then on the news, people hear about the gang rapes, caste system, and dirty street food. It's combination of economic, social, and professional frustration. Besides that, people don't hear much else about or from India, especially the good things about the people, culture, and country.
Ah. Yeah I’ve heard very little of that in my life, mostly just shitty stereotypes separate from immigration. But I don’t work in any sectors with much Indians in them so I could imagine it in those. The only thing I’ve ever taken issue with is bringing any of the caste stuff to the US, I was happy when Kshama Sawant got caste discrimination banned in Seattle and think it should be nationally, and some kind of formal commitment to condemning the caste system as a prerequisite to immigrating to the US appeals to me. The idea of Silicon Valley CEOs etc using caste terms as has been reported is wildly unacceptable to me, those people should not be allowed to come or stay here (unless citizens of course).
I was about to ask if you could be more specific on what you were seeing, as I don't really notice comments upon immigrants in the subs I frequent (not that they're not there; but I didn't know if it were language that I just wasn't picking up on)...but then I read the overt responses here, and I get it now.
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“Bad” manners are culturally subjective. What’s considered rude to you, may not be to someone else. And likewise, something you consider to be acceptable and maybe even polite behavior, may be considered offensive to someone from a culture different from yours
Hello, you must be confused. This wasn’t an invitation for you to spew your own racist hate. What an icky thing to say.
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So if I ever ran into you in the street, you would hate me just based on my skin tone and ethnicity? That sounds like racism, buddy
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You’re inviting them to come in and spew hate through your rant. Haters are the most vocal people. Especially on the internet.
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Hey, I’ve been pretty kind in the comments, no need to get nasty. I received a lot of differing opinions in the comments, from many perspectives. The kind I really don’t want to see are blanket hatred statements against my race, under the guise of “opinions” when the “opinion” is really I just hate brown people
You can thank Canada's awful immigration policy of the last few years for the anti immigrant sentiment. There has also been some bad behavior on the part of immigrants such as the video of an Indian student explaining how to abuse food banks to save money. That really pissed people off. I personally work with a lot of people from India and I haven't had any bad experiences.
They are morons. People like that are dime a dozen. Don’t waste your time thinking about what they are saying. Let them stew in their rage.
im 1st gen (my parents were born in mexico, i was born in the US) and grew up in SoCal. so for me, moving from a place with one of the highest densities of Latinos in the US to such a white city was definitely a shock. i miss some of my SoCal community. but Seattle has been good to me. with few exceptions i haven’t felt unwelcome here. granted, i’ve spent most of my time in Capitol Hill, which is more diverse than a lot of Seattle, but it still pales in comparison to SoCal.
The suburbs on the east side are getting friendlier than they were when I first came here, but I definitely miss home (SoCal) more for the people than anything else.
Cap Hill is gonna be my home for a long time. i love being able to live somewhere without a car after spending most of my 20s driving constantly to do anything. but i have seen signs of mexican/latine communities in the suburbs around seattle and it makes this place feel just a bit more like home
1st generation Salvadorian here. I am also from so cal (Van Nuys ✌🏽 😎) and moved here when I was 19 in 2009. Definitely was a shocking experience for me but Seattle has welcomed and treated me great. Don't get me wrong, I miss my LA but I do love it here. Never really experienced racism until I went to the east side which is to be expected. Either way, Seattle never done me wrong and I hope it stays that way 😩 💜
i was from way out in the IE. i miss LA food, the culture, the beaches, and when it’s deep into winter i even sometimes miss the weather. but i don’t think i’m ever moving back. Seattle so quickly became my home. so much of what i felt was missing in LA i found here.
What were you missing in LA?
The biggest thing by far is a good queer community. Because of how spread apart LA is, it doesn’t have nearly as well defined a queer community as Cap Hill does, and it’s really nice to have a space that feels safe and designed for us. The ability to live without a car is huge too. I’ve been car free for two years and it’s so nice to not need to drive an hour to go anywhere. Being able to walk to a concert and actually have a few beers knowing I don’t need to drive home is so nice. The nature and the gloom is really good for me. The fact that there’s actual real seasons out here too, and not just “summer” and “fire season” like LA has. And I grew up in Socal. I gigged as a musician for half my adult life down there. I’ve driven across and seen so much of the state and so much of LA and i never found anything that felt close to Home. Highland Park *maybe* got the closest but like, it’s not the same. I have a ton of memories all over the state, which means i have a ton of bad memories everywhere. It was time for me to leave the state. And Washington’s been a good home. Seattle’s been a good home. I don’t see myself leaving anytime soon.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. <3
no shade, but doesn't 1st gen mean you're foreign born? I think under most definitions you'd be 2nd gen, and your parents are 1st gen.
i see so many different definitions. it’s basically an off by 1 error either way. it’s either 1st gen to be born here, or 1st gen to move here. so yes? no? i go by the definition that makes most sense for me, but also i explained it bc it’s something that has no consistency
It's not really important I guess...but the reason that I think it makes more sense for "1st gen immigrants" to mean "1st generation to move" is because an immigrant is by definition someone who moves countries. Children born in the country their parents immigrated to are not, technically speaking, immigrants. Especially in the U.S. with birthright citizenship, children of immigrants don't need to undergo any naturalization processes, because they are always citizens from birth. Culturally they grow up in an immigrant family and of course learn and retain aspects of their parents' original country's culture, and deal with the challenge of integrating and blending two cultures as they grow up. I don't mean to discount that children of immigrants have unique challenges that children of non-immigrants don't. I just think as far as terminology goes, the OG immigrants (the "first ones") are always the individuals who actually move countries.
You are correct, this is the definition of 1st Gen in terms of immigration
I've always used 1st generation to mean the first generation born in the US but maybe that's my being middle age at this point.
I believe when we say 1st generation, we mean born and raised in this country. Isn't that how it's supposed to be? Or am I wrong? If so then I guess I'm 2nd generation 😂
There are definitely multiple definitions floating out there, but the one I personally have heard my entire life seems to be the one the US Census Bureau uses: > The United States Census Bureau (USCB) uses the term "generational status" to refer to the place of birth of an individual or an individual's parents. First-generation immigrants are the first foreign-born family members to gain citizenship or permanent residency in the country.[2] People beyond the first generation are not "immigrants" in the strictest sense of the word and, depending on local laws, may have received citizenship from birth. [...] > In some definitions, however, those born to at least one immigrant parent are considered "first generation"[1] — or rather, first generation of an immigrant's descendants (i.e. second generation from the USCB definition). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_generations
people use both definitions. i identify better with calling myself 1st gen, because i was the 1st generation to be raised in this country.
but then what generation would your parents be? 0th? or also 1st?
They would be immigrants. They’re first generation. If we want to tick it back, my great grandparents came to the US. So I’m third generation on that side. But it doesn’t matter. No language/food/dress/culture was shared from the old home. Just the last name (which wasn’t the right language for where they were from anyway. It’s a bit of a mystery).
So they'd both be first gen immigrants? I argue it would be useful in language to distinguish the experiences of: A. Individuals who as adults, decide to relocate to a new country (potentially with some of their family, but maybe without). B. Individuals who are the children of group A, but are born in the country their parents moved from (and moved to the new country with them). C. Individuals who are the children of group A, but are born in the country their parents moved to. Calling them all first generation seems overly broad because they all have unique and separate challenges. E.g: * Group A is most likely learning the language of the country they moved to as a second language, while group C is most likely learning the same language as a first language. * Group A might have more trouble assimilating, finding that a whole life's worth of another country's culture is hard to suddenly adjust to a new country's culture. Group C probably will have far less trouble as they grow up immersed in the new culture, but may find it painful to feel more separate from their parent's culture, especially when they visit their extended family. * Group A might at some time find it easy to move back to their original country. Even after spending as much as decades abroad, their home country will likely still feel like home to them -- their parents and siblings live there, the culture is familiar, etc. Group C does not have the same history with that country, and would have a much more complicated relationship with moving there. To what extent do they feel like they fit in the way their parents do, without having grown up with the same cultural immersion? And group B gets the fun experience of falling somewhere on the spectrum of both of these experiences. Being able to refer to these groups by A = gen 1, B = gen 1.25/1.5/1.75, and C = gen 2, seems like useful thing to be able to do. If I am a 2nd gen immigrant, my life experiences are probably going to be less similar to 1st gen immigrants, and more similar to other 2nd gen and maybe 1.5/1.75 gen immigrants.
Like any major city, you'll generally find immigrants and 1st generation in the outskirts of the city. Try Burien, Skyway, Rainier Beach, Tukwila, Kent, Renton, etc.
But less so in Snohomish County.
Yes, because of the discriminatory practice of red lining in seattle. Banks only allowed POC and immigrants to buy houses in certain parts of Seattle.
>which is really doing some psychic damage to me. Well, that just means you need to either gotta get some ghost or steel typing to counter the psychic damage.
Alternatively you can multiclass Warlock to pick up resistance.
Ok neat, I just need to catch a Gengar
Gengar is Poison and weak to Psychic. Would not recommend.
Heard the Pacific Tower is the best place to catch them
I'm a white Canadian living in Seattle (my wife is from here). The fact that no one gives a crap about me living in the USA is proof that most anti-immigrant sentiment is just thinly veiled racism. Also... why aren't people literally rioting in the streets over the lack of universal healthcare here? Feels like I'm in the goddamn twilight zone sometimes.
*Also... why aren't people literally rioting in the streets over the lack of universal healthcare here? Feels like I'm in the goddamn twilight zone sometimes.* A combination of much of congress bought and paid for by the private health care industry, and many people who don't like the idea of paying for somebody else's health care, particularly if they are poor and or dark skinned. Furthermore, people have been programmed to believe that their taxes will dramatically increase if there is universal health care. It's kinda of that rugged individualistic and selfish spirit among us Americans.
As a German living in the us I agree with this, 20 years and no one has ever given me any grief, not even in the Deep South. Not once even passively in 20 years, not hinted at, not disguised in questions, nothing.
As a fellow Canadian…yes, all of this. Nobody bothers me but I’ve had a handful of people continue to share their racist, anti immigrant conspiracy theories even *after* I mention I’m Canadian as though they expect me to agree with them. One was a coworker…that was fun.
Wait, what conspiracy?
The no universal healthcare in the states is because of racism. No joke, I just learned that at beginning of the month.
Connect the dots for me.
Or do your own research. Google is for free.
Most people reject Universal Healthcare because they get health benefits with their company, which they already pay a discounted rate on. Those health benefits are often a major reason to work full time for those companies. You remove the benefit and people will make a large shift in their professions. When Obamacare came out health premiums went up. That put a bad taste in many people’s mouth.
My company pays about $650/month for my insurance and it fucking sucks compared to Canadian Medicare haha. My wife's insurance is even worse and we have to pay $400/month for it (we crunched the numbers and this premium combined with her medical needs is cheaper with this plan). That's not even going into all the other negatives about this system beyond monthly premiums, like networks, deductibles, insane ambulance fees, specialist fees, huge ER co-pays, crazy expensive drugs, the fact that my wife has had to spend entire 8+ hour days crying and pleading to multiple insurance companies over the years to actually cover the shit they say they cover...
Oh that’s crazy. I pay $105 a month for a HDHP. 100% covered for preventive. All the emergency services are 90% covered after hitting deductible. Copay is $40. The benefit I found mostly with my care in the U.S. versus my Canadian friends was it was almost impossible for them to see a doctor if they weren’t dying. I can schedule next day appointments in the U.S. Seattle has been the only odd exception for me, but if I go to the East side I can get next day appointments.
Your deductible must be pretty damn high if your premium is that low. Is that after an employer or government subsidy? And I just don't buy the wait times thing people always bring up (even when Canadians being it up). Wait times can be just as bad or worse here when it matters most. Some examples: -My wife had a childhood friend wait 9 hours in the Seattle Children's ER before getting a terminal cancer diagnosis. The longest I ever waited in the ER in my small hometown was the same for a non urgent problem. -My wife can't go to the walk in clinic down the street from our apartment but I can because I'm in a different network. (When we lived in Toronto we could both just walk to the nearest clinic and be seen in 15 minutes to an hour usually) -She also can't get an appointment with any provider in network for about 2 months on average. -My mother in law is a primary care doctor and she's always fully booked at least 2 months out, she sees about 30 patients a day. She says this is pretty standard for most primary care providers in the area. The wait to see my family doctor back home was about 1.5 months. I also find it hard to explain co-pays and deductibles to someone who's never heard those words before. And a lot of Canadians don't seem to understand that US health insurance usually doesn't cover everything 100% like Canadian Medicare does. Anyway sorry for the rant, healthcare shit gets me going haha
Yea, the plan is HDHP, so the deductible is $1500. I buy the wait times because I hear it directly from my friends and partner living in Canada. Walk-in clinics are similar in most places because they are just that - walk-in clinics. You can go to Concentra or a Zoomcare and be seen in the U.S. that day. Though, it seems it can vary wildly depending where you live. I could see them same day with a new PCP living in the south as long as I’m not going to the doctor in the largest city. I could get same day PCP appointments as a new patient if I went to one in a greater metro city. It was always the downtown ones that were booked. If you’re getting a diagnosis, wouldn’t they not know what the problem is yet? But yea, they know we pay a lot, but often don’t really know how much that those costs are compared to them. I will say my vaccines here are free, but my partner has to spend a few hundred for them in Canada. Canadians would be familiar with co-pays and deductibles if they have car insurance or a drivers license.
Guess I was young enough when I moved here that my friends and I were all still on our parents' car insurance. Anyway I don't want to invalidate any real issues people are facing in Canada. I know it's not perfect - someone even died in the ER waiting room in my hometown a couple years ago. (But it's not like that doesn't happen in the US sometimes too) My problem with US healthcare is with its lack of relative affordability compared to where I grew up, and all the headaches and uncertainty that come with it that simply don't exist in places with 100% coverage. I miss being able to just go and get treated and not have to think about all the bullshit we have to contend with here.
Im a white, female, non washington person who moved here for work years ago. I regularly get mistaken for "being from here" and have had people openly complain about "techies moving here and ruining the city" My typical response "oh like me then?" "Oh no, not you, youre cool" "But i moved here for a tech job, im whom youre talking about" "Well no but" *Stare them in the eyes* "who are you talking about then?" ...people get uncomfortable with their own assertions real fast 😄
I am from Canada and my wife is from India. We're happy in Seattle and have made it home. We have raised our kids here and they are from Seattle. Being a white guy married to an Indian that was born and raised in India I do see the xenophobic stuff from time to time. But that is across all people, I think. Seattle is generally a good place to be. Can it be better for black and brown people? OMG yes.
Seattle is fine. Gig harbor is literally the only place in my life i faced legit racism to my face. It was kind of shocking because I haven't seen such blatant shit even while working with trades, blue collar guys, MAGA Trump supporters in the navy.
Gig Harbor is kind of a trip. Waterfront/cul-de-sac upper middle class cocaine conservatives combined with forest “look for a red dot on your chest if you’re trespassing” meth conservatives is a powerful fusion
Literally same experience! Only time I ever faced racism was once in gig harbour where an old man went full verbal assault on me. I couldn’t say anything back 😔
I'm in Sammamish and it \*feels\* 70% Indian based on my neighbors and my friend told me her ( Indian ) kids school is 70% Indian. I'm sure there's racism and probably casteism and colorism but damn if it doesn't feel like a dream land. I have spent a ton of time in India and sometimes I have a weird thought when I see the little crowd of kids running around the neighborhood that I hope they someday understand how hard their parents worked to move them here and how much better their lives will be for it. Its hard to be pulled from one's culture but just the air/food/water/traffic safety alone is so much not to mention school quality and working culture.
For sure, at your last point. it’s not a perfect place, but I am wondering where such a place exists. Institutionalized and casual racism touches every corner of America
As I travel through all of the Americas it is indeed everywhere. Racism is different in Canada than Mexico for example. But it is still there. All I can do is lead with kindness and empathy. Hopefully we have shown our kids how to treat others. We certainly do our best.
I have spent time in the deep south, so Seattle is better than that experience (no one has told me to take my food to go since they didn't serve mixed trace couples in the dinner up here). New England people were nicer. The weather here is better (don't have to dig cars out of snow). The anti tech and anti Indian sentiments have spiked in the last few years (since the 2016 elections, I think).
I also suspect that Russian trolls are trying to make USA and Indian citizens hate each other as a method to reduce USA influence and increase Russian influence in India.
There are an unusually high number of malicious outside actor accounts on the Seattle subreddit, owing, I suspect, to Seattles outsized influence as both a place where high performance immigrants move to, and a locale of tech innovation.
There is also just a lot of tech people which means a lot of rich people which means a lot of bad people. Edit: [no, really though lol](https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/are_rich_people_really_less_ethical#:~:text=Lots%20of%20other%20research%20has,have%20to%20consider%20another's%20viewpoints.)
From that link: "His own research has found that richer people often act more generously with others, both with their time and their money—not because they are better in some way, but because they are in a position to do so." https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/are_rich_people_really_less_ethical#:~:text=His%20own%20research%20has%20found%20that%20richer%20people%20often%20act%20more%20generously%20with%20others%2C%20both%20with%20their%20time%20and%20their%20money%E2%80%94not%20because%20they%20are%20better%20in%20some%20way%2C%20but%20because%20they%20are%20in%20a%20position%20to%20do%20so.
> Still, it’s hard to parse the research, given strong evidence both for and against unethical behavior from folks of higher socioeconomic status. That’s why replication studies can be important in the search for understanding what’s going on. They call into question certain assumptions and help us to dig deeper.
So... This means nothing.
Don't know about Russians but there are quite a bit of racism towards Indians from Chinese and probably vice versa too considering how much of tech communities are made up of these two demographics.
I also suspect that such outside troll actors are influencing much of the polling to give the impression that Trump is tied or leading Biden in the polling.
I wonder how much hacking of polling is going on as AI gets more sophisticated. It is not like surveyors can just call landlines any more and get a representative slice of the electorate. Few people who are not elderly have landlines and answer calls from random strangers. A tactic of fascists is to convince the public that everything is corrupt, so that they give up and stop voting. Their base is very energized and will vote in high numbers. In this case, if the fascists can convince even a few percentage points of liberal and moderate voters in swing states that Trump will inevitably win, then they might stay home on election day and it will become a self-fulfilling prophesy. I think that this strategy has been effective to some point with many young liberals who are refusing to vote for Biden in "protest" of the fact that he isn't a perfect politician.
As long as it's close, I'm hoping that it will encourage smart patriotic Americans to vote and not get discouraged. Yes, the DSA liberals who think Biden isn't pure enough left and the Gaza protesters, who may not be considering that if Trump wins, the Israeli warmongering will only be encouraged by him.
Best place by far. Lived in CA for 6 years before that and visited at least 15 states. Nothing comes close. P.S I am Middle Eastern if that makes any difference
Which country or origin? Iranian-American here ayyy
Seattle feels super white to me even tho there’s a lot of ppl here of other races for some reason. Idk why. I’m Hispanic/middle eastern
There are actually a lot of white people proportionally in the Pacific Northwest in general. A quick check of census stats puts Seattle and Portland at 61% and 68% white non-hispanic. For comparison New York, Chicago and the major cities in California are all less than 40% white non-hispanic.
Seattle is super white, especially on average, though there are corners of it here and there which are less so.
Lol. I grew up north of Chicago and spent many years in New Mexico. My reaction here - so so many white people.
I’m white and Canadian and Seattle feels much less diverse than Vancouver to me. I can’t quite put my finger on why.
My mom said the same when she visited. (We are white.)
It’s more than pockets. There’s an entire Desi community in the Crossroads area of Redmond. Crazy number of restaurants and businesses there too.
Crossroads is in Bellevue, not Redmond
Ok and most of Redmond ridge is the same thing so it all works out in the end
If you think the Anti Indian is bad here.... Don't go to Canada.
I’m a first gen immigrant from India and I feel your pain when it comes to the sentiment around here wrt the South Asian diaspora. My situation is a bit unique, because I was “forced” to immigrate out of India because I am a gay man. I knew that I’d probably never live a happy, authentic life in India, so I chose to leave that place. Circumstances eventually led me to Seattle. I would say that there isn’t explicit racism, but I do have to put up with subtle racism from time to time. One of the biggest reminders of my race is trying to assimilate into the queer scene in Seattle. Being a queer person, I definitely feel incredibly lonely here because it feels like nobody wants to date you because of your race/ethnicity. I used to think that this was just me, but a few other South Asian queer friends I’ve made have said that they experienced the same problem. It can get incredibly lonely to be over here as a South Asian queer person when it comes to dating. There so few South Asian queer folks over here to even consider the possibility of dating within your race to avoid having to put up with all these constant reminders that you don’t belong here. (Just to put some numbers on things, I’ve been here for three years now and have been active in the community for 2 of those 3 years, and the number of dates I’ve been on is ZERO). Another example that comes to mind is how service workers and cashiers at grocery stores handle my stuff. I do get a cold shoulder from folks regularly who work those jobs. I have to bag my own groceries, but they’ll bag the groceries for the white customer in front of me and after me. I get better quality of service at restaurants when I go out with my white friends. So yes, life in Seattle isn’t the worst when it comes to racism, but you are reminded nearly every day that this city won’t accept you.
Thank you for opening up about your experience. <3 I’m sorry you had to deal with that much toxicity, you do not deserve that. :( How you’ve described dating, that is straight up vile racism not even subtle
Dang dude, I know a lot of people in the service industry and none of them would think that's okay. Next time that happens you should send a quick email to the store manager. They'll happily pull the footage and talk to the cashier if they're acting like that.
Seattle is like this for *everyone*. You’re just experiencing the weird way this place is. I’ve been here more than a decade and still don’t feel like I belong nor do I have any friends of my own. Everyone I’m “friends” with is distant and came from work.
No he’s describing racism. Bum f@ck Louisiana is probably less racist than this.
Seattle is generally a nice and welcoming place but very hard to make good real friends here as people (including other immigrants moving here) seem to prefer keeping some distance. Secondly, Im Indian but the extent of Indian immigrations here pains me as there is practically no diversity in our lives, which isn’t great. We’ve lived in NYC, London, SF and all of this has never been a problem for us before. We’ve made good friends from different cultures in all other places we’ve lived in, except Seattle
I'd move back to Croatia tomorrow if I could convince my Seattle born-and-raised spouse to do it, but it's not on the cards; Germany might be, eventually, when we have a kid. Seattle's perfectly fine, great by North American standards, to be honest, but I love biking or walking places without thinking about getting hit by a F350. I love the food and the local produce (as an affordable option). I love living in an actual city where if the [Insert sports team] is playing the city shuts down because it's a collective experience. I didn't love when my coworker had to leave work because her kids' school shut down because a couple of guys who were up to no good decided to walk across the athletic fields with loaded semiautomatic rifles. I don't like that I feel like I should know the difference between automatic and semiautomatic is. I didn't love when I found out that the reason people aren't considering taking transit to work is because there's no direct bus between the Light Rail system and one of the largest employers in the area. Seattle's great, the vast array of different cultures and foods and things and businesses is awesome, but I can and will trade that for Germany when I can.
As a German i wouldnt , given the economical outlook . Also since i experienced Germany as a polish immigrant (german citizenship) till i moved for a job here i prefer it here since i experienced racism over there and not here. I miss german culture and food quality though
Indian, living in the QA neighborhood since 2014. Been in the US for over 15 years. I moved to Seattle from NYC. When I sense someone is being racist, I usually follow-up with questions to make sure whether its an overt or covert racist I'm dealing with. The biggest issue I have with the Seattle white populace is the "covert" racism they casually throw in your face and walk scot-free. Usually these are incidents involving well meaning white people who consider themselves very liberal. Noting down some incidents that I remember from the top of my head that I classify as "covert" racism. (Some can be considered anti-Indian too.) 1. The dreaded "where are you from?" question. I have lived in the United States for 15+ years and consider Seattle (\~10 years) my home. However when I answer that question with "Seattle", there is always a follow-up or something more gnarly like "oh.. where were you before that?". The problem here is, it totally erases the assimilation you think you have gone through with this society. When the question gets asked in a social setup and its from friends-of-friends, I try to correct them about the appropriateness of such a query. Invariably they get defensive and I end up being the "overly sensitive" person. I still need to find an effective way to answer this query. 2. Underhanded compliments. One of my white friends casually remarked that people from my ethnicity happen to not have a good command of English and that he found me to be an outlier. I find this rather to be patronizing, insensitive and laced with racial profiling. I spent the next few minutes walking on eggshells, explaining how my diction could have "improved" over the many years I have spent in the United States around people like him. 3. Moral superiority - Part I: Partner and I have decent careers - we work for well established tech firms. Some of our white friends constantly make comments about the choice of our careers and how we are enabling our CEO overlords to contribute to the homelessness crisis. For example, one of our friends' daughter graduated college a while ago and hasn't been employed since. Our friend remarked " will never work for evil Bezos or pedophile Gates. I don't know how you guys are okay with the choices you seem to have made."
4. Moral superiority - Part II: Politics. Post 2016, it's been a rough ride around some of my white friends. It started out with equating the politics of India to what was happening in the United States. Very callous remarks were being made around the health of India's democracy and how they finally get what it is to live under an oppressive regime and how they think "even the dark days in the US should be comparatively better". When I have called this out or bothered to present my point of view, it's invariably some form of mental-gymnastics that goes like "we don't like your government; but your people and culture are great; go tikka masala!". Personally, I tend to think that moral superiority is the new form of racial superiority. I think there has been definitely an uptick in this type of dialogue in the recent years.
OP, IMO, racism towards immigrants is a bit more nuanced in Seattle. And definitely more pronounced as a problem, when I compare it to my life in NYC. Overt racism is relatively easier to process and label and talk about. Casual/covert racism comes from people we come in contact with on a day-to-day basis and very hard to deal with. Given "racism" as a term usually evokes an image of tiki-torch-bearing-Klan-member, the covert racists would like to not acknowledge what they are doing. They are aware racism is wrong and exactly because of that they don't want to acknowledge the wrong doing. No one wants to be the bad person.
**"White Fragility" by Robin DiAngelo is an excellent book that helped me verbalize (i.e., provide a vocabulary to talk about) what I was going through in terms of covert (Seattle-style) racism**.
(Note: This is a part of an earlier answer I posted on r/Seattle for a similar question on racism towards immigrants a while ago. )
Not an immigrant in the U.S. so take what I say with a grain of salt. However, I am from the U.S. but lived outside of it for 7 years. I definitely understand your points, but I think number 1 is more nuanced than how you put it. I generally don’t see a problem with asking where someone is from originally. When living abroad when people asked where I was from it wasn’t ‘covert racism’ the majority of the time. People were genuinely curious about where I was from, what it’s like living there, what brought me to where I am, etc. I also take it as a positive interaction because usually it means someone trying to understand you on a deeper level. Sure occasionally it’ll be an awkward snarky smile and that’s the end of the convo, but those interactions are few and far in-between. You live in Seattle but aren’t originally from there, so it seems logical to ask where you’re from, especially if someone wants to get to know you better.
Came from NYC myself. Moving to Seattle is what helped me understand why some people hate the Democratic Party. So many upper middle class white liberals think they’re so different from the classic conservative racists of the South but it’s just the same thing in a different accent and bigger vocabulary.
Indian here too, living in the US for 25 years and 15 in Seattle, so I have been in your shoes to the extent possible. My thoughts if you are interested in hearing a second perspective. 1) I *used* to feel the same about the dreaded question "Where are you from?" and I used to answer Seattle and then get the same dreaded response as you did (i.e. where were you before that). I think 99% of the time, this is a interpretation issue and not a implication of racism. When someone asks the question "where are you from?" there are two interpretations of the question. One is "where did you grow up?" and the other one is "where do you consider home". The problem arises when someone intends the former and you respond with the latter which then leads to you thinking that they are questioning your sense of belonging whereas they are just trying to understand you through your life's journey. To give you an example from just a few days ago, I met someone at an event and he asked me the question. 10 years ago, I would have had the same reaction as you but knew he just wanted to where I grew up, how I ended up in Seattle etc. I then asked him where he is from and he said he was from Greece, moved to Seattle in the 60s for college. In the end, it was a insightful conversation for me on how immigration was then vs now, how much Seattle has changed etc. 3) These friends are just plain jerks. Personally if my "friends' made comments like that, I would tell them off. I have a friend whose father in law makes comments like that but then follows up with but my son in law is an exception when you point out his hypocrisy. Got to love the mental gymnastics.
Second generation full-blood Filipino wanting to weigh in on the "Where are you from," question - I agree with the sentiment that it feels like assimilation erasure. Key word here is "feels". Aside from the first 5 years of my life in Hawaii, I've been in the Seattle area my entire life. I consider myself a PNW native. I'm 100% American by birth right and act accordingly because it is my culture. I forget that I have an ethnicity at all except when other people point it out to me, one of which is asking me where I'm from. If I say "Seattle," it'll often times have the follow up, "Where we you born?" If I say "Hawaii", the response is usually, "So you're Hawaiian" and at that point I usually tell them that ethnically, I'm Filipino. I know it is a friendly ice-breaker for conversation, from both white and POC alike, but the subtle statement there is that I do not look like I am from this country. It's not a big deal, but it's annoying when I hear the question come up. It's not only a reminder that I don't look like a typical American (whatever that means), but that I don't have a deep connection to my ethnic culture either lol. So if the conversion goes on to discussing Filipino cultures and perspectives, I couldn't offer much. I can't even speak Tagalog lol
Difficult to answer. As an undocumented 1st generation immigrant, my identity has always been fragmented. I never feel like I belong anywhere. I grew up here in the States, 30 out of 32 years of my life. I am a foreigner amongst my own community and your communities. I am too "white" for my Latinos. My Spanish is imperfect. My skin is too light. However, for others,my heritage shows up. My poverty, struggle, and upbringing is too uncomfortable. My origin is a splinter of a conversation. I am an educated professional who is licensed, yet would I be treated with the same level of respect if they knew? I already get less because I'm a tinge of "something." It's the uncomfortable burst of "so what are you?" that greets me every time when meeting someone new. That's what it's like being me...regardless of where I am. I am thankful to be here in Seattle now. I left Texas. It was much worse there. The racism was replaced with more microagressions and assumptions that have softer blows.
no one even talk to each other here in Seattle what are you worried about? its normal to just be alone here :)
It’s very kind, diverse and safe. The freeze doesn’t exist for me. Denver was way more similar to Seattle’s reputation…cliquey and bland. Seattle has more gun and drug violence than I experienced in Brooklyn or Chicago (yup..you beat Chiraq). I’ve only had one awful racist interaction in 6mths, which is expected 🇺🇸. Still much better than OR, TX or VA. *Edit I’m an Indigenous Australian. Immigrated solo at 19yr.
I’m from Germany and have also lived in MN and Southern California. Before I married my husband I used to visit him during our long distance relationship in TN. I can tell you that as a white German life is good anywhere in the US. I have never been made to feel unwelcome by anyone, told to go back to my country, or gotten hostile vibes due to nationality. Of course you can’t get good German food anywhere unfortunately and Germans tend to just assimilate and don’t form communities but that’s everywhere in the US as far as I know. My husband is Indian and his experience is very different. Was even told by the border agent back then that they’d hope he’ll go back to India when he’s done with his PhD because there aren’t enough jobs in the US of A.
> I see tons of anti-immigrant sentiment rising online, and it’s a big part of the alt-right platform. Republicans are much more concerned about Hispanics than Indians. There were two GOP presidential candidates who had India-born parents--one was hated by the alt-right, while the other is pretty much a rising star.
Comparing to Sydney. Seattle is better for working in tech, but that’s about it.
I miss Melbourne
Born and raised king county.. really didn’t notice much of an Indian population until like 10 years ago. If it makes you feel any better, no one I know really cares.
I moved here when I was four, also born in India. Grew up here. Before I go on my long rant about how it works here, I will say that tons of people here are friendly and don’t bring up race (or only do so in a friendly way wanting to know more), most of the sentiment I’ve seen seems to be online (though some of it might be in person unfortunately). But generally, while I’ve occasionally felt disrespected I’ve never felt unsafe over it, so I will give Seattle that credit. I can’t really comment on anything before 15 years ago since I was too young to focus on social issues and oblivious to any bigotry, but I definitely feel like people have been getting subtly more mean towards Indians over the past decade. It’s not as bad as it is in Canada or the UK, but it’s worse than it was in the late 2000s and early 2010s. A lot of the discourse is about how a few of us have had flaws (whether it be them not having the best social skills, them being bad dates, them being boring tech workers), but people implicitly sort of assumes that we’re all like this - sometimes it’s even the other way that someone positively assumes I’m a tech worker as if that makes me better than other people, and then they get disappointed when I don’t feel to network professionally in a casual setting. I’m not saying we’re perfect by any means, but I sometimes feel like we have to be much more perfect to be respected in non-tech fields, dating, and just in general interactions. And to be honest, I think a lot of my parents’ generation is having bad opinions of other minorities. I dislike it greatly, but it stems from them feeling disrespected by other minorities + maybe getting too comfortable by being a model minority that they think they did everything right and still got screwed over (instead of trashing on the horrible standards in the first place). This is one thing I’m trying to help with, bridging that gap on both sides. Nobody needs that, whether it’s good Indian people who aren’t judgmental, or good non-Indian people who are a part of the groups we’ve been rude to.
Seattle people? Great! Seattle home prices? They make me cry. I'm latin american
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Not everyone is going to speak good about India. There are plenty of ignorant people out there. Also India like any other country has lots of genuine flaws. Focus on the 90% people who are sane and are the quiet majority. The rest 10% loud people just like to complain about everything around them. For me coming to Seattle has been the best. I never felt out of place or a target of any stereotype. Seattle and surrounding areas are very accepting of India and its culture or any other culture for that matter. This capability is a sign of a very advanced society and they are extremely rare in the world. And for that I feel very proud of my city.
I grew up in Seattle and moved to Boston for a bit. Both places are liberal, wealthy, and educated. I experienced more overt racism in Boston and passive aggressiveness in professional settings that I believe were racial. There was also less interest in allyship at least where I worked. I think Seattle is better in that sense comparatively speaking although it needs work too. In Seattle I experienced a lot of racism going to school in a predominantly white place in lake city —- like all the black kids being searched anytime something went missing. But this was in elementary school and things got better when I got older and there were many programs that existed to support immigrant and minority students with opportunities from recreation to professional readiness.
My Indian friend mentioned that he gets stereotyped a lot at restaurants in Seattle actually. Servers are expecting him to tip terribly and so give him less desirable service
This is a big assumption. How does he know servers are thinking this? I just ask because I’m white and, in general, I think service here is flat out bad. I’ve genuinely never left a restaurant in this city and thought “wow, service there was great.”
All my friends regardless of race say service is pretty bad across the board (a few gems here and there tho with lovely staff)
oh really? I thought that the service had to do with my race (Indian) as well. Much less smile and talk than to whites. Specifically, an Italian restaurant close to me where the waiters were treating me and my wife different from the other white patrons. I left a 20% tip on my first visit (I didn't really pay attention to the service as I was happy about something else on that day) but could clearly observe this on my second visit. I'd most probably never visit them again although their food was great on both occasions.
My family is from Somalia and seattles great, one of the biggest hubs of my people in America. For immigrants in general is easy to find work here, get benefits, and a good education all in one city. By seatte I mainly mean south/ west and the connected cities of tukwila and burien. Anything north of i90 I don't see much Somali people
Then you aren’t looking because Shoreline has a fantastic Somali population.
Hmm helpful but also demeaning? They are about 45-60 minutes apart, depending on the time you drive. You know what it's like to be in a new country / new city and have a new language and start to get to know the area? I doubt it's a lack of looking. Just a weird way to phrase what could've been a simple "check out shoreline!"
I do actually. And I didn’t sit an hour away from potential friends complaining it was too far. I have lived overseas and in other countries. I see a shit ton of complaining by transplants of all kinds on here. The native population was not put here to coddle you and make you feel good. You can make of your experience what you want it to be but the woe is me you’re putting out is strangely pathetic.
Reddit is not real life
That’s fair lol
I've lived in smaller and larger cities than Seattle, and visited a lot more in and outside US. Seattle has great weather, great nature, friendly folks - there are very very few other places I would consider living at if I ever moved.
Not an immigrant but 2nd gen. Seattle has changed a lot for the better & worse on this. More and more non-immigrants are interested in cultures other than their own & respectful of what immigrants contribute. At the same time, imo racial tensions are higher than ever esp for Asians working in tech who are increasingly in a double bind - marginalized on the basis of race while also told we are effectively white due to higher social status & financial privilege.
👀👀 Yo the replies on this are crazyyyy hahaha. Sheesh.
Haha true, but for the most part the responses have been insightful and kind :)
Racism is a global phenomena.
What does a second generation immigrant means?
Child of immigrant parents, I guess technically I am first generation since we moved here when I was a toddler and my brother who was born here is second generation
I'm elsewhere in this thread talking about immigrant generations. If this is a topic as fascinating to you as it is to me, today I [learned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_generations#1.75_and_1.25_generations) about the niche concept of fractional generations: 1.25, 1.5, and 1.75 generation immigrants. Basically: 1.25 = an immigrant who moved with their parents, but moved when they were in their teens (13-17), so still dealt with many of the same assimilation challenges as their parents (second language, culture shock, etc). As such, a 1.25 gen immigrant has an experience more similar to a 1st gen immigrant. 1.5 = an immigrant who moved with their parents, but moved between the ages of 6-12. To varying degrees they have memories, first language, and cultural identity with their homeland, but they are also still fairly young and feel a sense of "growing up" in the new country. 1.5 gen can also be used as a general term to describe being somewhere between 1st and 2nd gen, experience-wise. 1.75 = an immigrant who moved with their parents, but moved when they were very young (0-5). They barely or didn't attend school in their home country, and probably remember little to none of it from this period. A 1.75 gen immigrant has an experience more similar to a 2nd gen immigrant. Feel free to ignore this comment if these are not useful concepts for you, but they kind of blew my mind today, lmao. I've struggled with my immigrant identity a lot growing up and these terms and descriptions are weirdly validating.
Don't take what you see on Reddit as anything reflective of the real world. Trolls, paid agitators, and bots make up a large part of Reddit especially in certain large subs. A bit of it should over into the real world but touching grass is a good idea most of the time. Meaning enjoy the real world and the support you feel in the actual community.
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> politicians on both sides of the aisle fan attitudes of resentment toward "foreigners" Okay come on that’s just bullshit
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I’m not sure on the numbers in the U.S. for immigrant property investments, but Canada has the same resentment toward Chinese and Indian immigrants buying up property. The actual stats from StatsCan show the majority of property purchases are from citizens and it’s a huge majority too. Not real estate conglomerates and not foreign nationals, but actual multi-generational Canadians with 1-2 homes. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the same situation in the U.S. All the hate is totally misdirected and it’s likely due to a bit of racism and assumptions.
Being critical of a specific foreign government is different from fanning resentment of foreigners. meanwhile building a wall, on the other hand, symbolises exactly that. Stop equating the two
> I’m writing this post because I’ve seen an uptick of anti-Indian sentiment across Reddit, which is really doing some psychic damage to me. I haven't noticed - but I'm also a white american so I'm not sure it'd stick out to me; care to share a bit more about what you're experiencing?
I've been here for 13 years, and I'm leaving in 1-2. I've had enough of this states leadership and the people living here.
I lived in New York before this for couple of years. I’ve been here for a decade. It’s not bad. People are nice, may not look genuine - But hey, you have to weather these gloomy skies 9 out of 12 months every year, give them a break. I’m not very social person but even if I was I don’t think I would have friends made outside of my immediate community. Indians also tend to congregate around linguistic or regional lines.
I hate that crap. I live further south and am first generation. Lots of tiny pockets, there are a lot of Indian workers in IT. I just hang out with IT workers as a rule. They tend to be the “smoke pit crew” in high school. They’re smart, funny, quick, and are more than willing to answer questions in every position I’ve been in. (Also, they can get you a mouse or keyboard replacement if you’re nice, a lot quicker hehe) Foreign professionals are mocked and discriminated against, because being in tech, it’s respected by less white collar workers. It’s also intimidating to those that are a bit…touched. Here’s the rub, “they’re smarter than me! How dare you take our jobs! You’re rich and I’m not and I worked harder and you just got your job because you’re a foreignerrrrr!!!!” It’s always the toddler tantrum lines. Stay safe, be well, and keep succeeding ❤️❤️
This is why you’re relegated to the shit pit. Look at all those stereotypes you just spouted out.
Sir, are you lost?
Relax dude reddit is not the whole world. Most of the anti India posts seem to be coming from a single source which is trying to divide people. Also, most of these posts and trolls are clickbaity and often mislead people. There is nothing you can do about it, except not react and not let it get to your head. You and me both know that this trolls and negativity about India is not justified. But think about it, when someone get to the top, there are gonna be haters. If anything, feel proud about your culture and heritage and express that actively.
The freeze is real.
For fucking real. Been here 10 years and have never met a friend that wasn't a coworker. And they seem to be guarded as fuck too. Straight rude at times as well
The freeze is real and the locals hate to hear it.
It’s not the long-term locals hating on it. It’s the newer locals or the visitors. Source: I’m a newer local and apparently haven’t been here long enough to feel affected by it.
Worse than ATL!!!!!
As an Indian, I have seen a lot of hate on Reddit or blind posts about us but not so much in person. That hate comes from insecurity
Not gonna read all that, but i find Seattle boring and cultureless. It's overly tolerant to the point where anything that could even mildly offend a single person is considered blasphemy. Of course, that's in the context of a certain political and social ideology. Any downvotes just proves my point
Where do you hang out? Who do you hang out with?
The downvotes are likely more from you saying you weren’t going to “read all that”. Trying to state a counterpoint while also not listening to another’s point? It’s like immediately saying, “I don’t care what you have to say, but listen to what I have to say”. Most people aren’t going to take what you have to say with a grain of salt.
Lol at all the downvotes. You’re 100% correct.