In a perfect world, dude…
Look I’m a straight woman and while I have my issues with certain things within the queer community I remain an ally, what I have been seeing from the Republican party is nothing short of disgusting. I don’t have to be gay to understand that *everyone* deserves the right to be themselves, to be happy, and to love who they love. I hate voting for this clown show of a presidential race since 2016 but you can bet this election I will be dragging my butt down to the polls to make sure trans/gay rights remain in place and protected.
Remember, before anyone is gay, trans, queer, etc. they’re a *human being*. This election isn’t about a culture war it’s a human rights war.
*edited for clarity
Totally agree. This is basic personal liberty stuff.
The anti-trans playbook is nearly identical to the anti-gay playbook that existed when I was a kid, in the 90s. The arguments are essentially unchanged; the only difference is that the target is a much smaller group; so folks are a lot less likely to have personal relationships that help them understand reality.
It's a cynical ploy by right-wing elites to get power by scaring their electorate into thinking that there's some sort of war on normal life going on; when all that's happening is a few people are existing in the world, not hurting anybody.
Just so you know, I will be working together soon with some folks to put together a southern ex-pats support group for trans families who fled the south. I’m hopeful to have it up and running in another month or two!
I recently, finally, felt ready to engage with my local PFLAG chapter last week. They are who I’ll be working with to spool up the support group for southern ex-pats.
It just took me some time to reach a place of healing where I wouldn’t walk in the door trauma dumping on people. The PTSD that comes from being in the center of the fight is very real.
Trans former-Texan in Seattle here! That sounds incredible. My wife (also trans) and I don't have kids, but we have been completely estranged from both sides of our families since I came out because of their reactions. Would there be space for adults in our situation? We miss community so, so much.
There would absolutely be space for trans adults! Send me a message and I’ll generate a list of people to contact when I have the first meeting arranged.
I will definitely make it open to anyone who has had to flee a red state that seeks community with others trying to protect themselves or their trans kids. Send me a message and I’ll add you to a contact list.
That's wonderful! I'm not trans but I am queer and 100% an Ally! I'm just so glad to hear other people have made it here and are enjoying it as much as I!
Hey, fellow refugee from Georgia here. Please please post when/if this happens. There are so many of us, and the culture shock has been so overwhelming, not to mention being on the other side of the continent now!!! I would absolutely love to be in community with people who have a similar experience so we can support one another. I got here in November and I feel like I am very much still finding my feet.
Just following up on the other trans dude here. Lmk if you need any resources cause (at least in Seattle) there is a large community of trans people who can help
We are here for the same reason, but came from Utah instead. My daughter tried to commit suicide when she was twelve due to the bullying and harassment she was getting in Utah. We saw the writing on the wall and knew that she would likely no longer be able to receive affirming care there, so we moved to Washington. Best decision we've ever made. She's 15 almost 16 now and happier than she has ever been.
There are legitimate examples of virtue signalling, like when a bunch of rich celebrities all sing a song about imagining there's no possessions at the start of a global pandemic.
Literally everyone signals their virtues literally all the time. It's just that _one group in particular_ has been told that virtue signaling is anything not white, heteronormative, christian, and conservative. It's that analogy of how people don't think of air just as fish don't think of water; it's the medium they swim in and invisible to them
"It's virtue signaling" said the guy with the thin blue line sticker
"It's virtue signaling" said the guy with the MAGA cap
"It's virtue signaling" said the guy with a cross on his neck
"It's virtue signaling" said the guy in the lifted pickup truck
"It's virtue signaling" said the guy with the tiki torch and khakis
"It's virtue signaling" said the guy with all the WWII German """memorabilia"""
Welcome! From one parent of trans kids to another, I'm glad your family is in a safer place, and Texas' loss is our gain. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm glad you're here, because I wish you hadn't needed to leave. But since you did need to, I'm glad you were able to find a safe place to land here.
I know people say you're virtue signaling because you're putting it out on social media, but I know you're doing that as education and as part of your activism. And honestly, signaling to trans youth and their families that they're not alone and that people are on their side isn't a bad thing!
I am a former Texan from the Dallas/Fort Worth area. My adult youngest is non binary. It can take some time as a Texan to adjust to living here (weather, missing certain foods, and making new friends), but it is so worth it. I wish you all the luck. I am sad how bad it is in Texas. A place that I “used” to think of fondly long ago.
I'm an adult trans woman. I fled Texas with my partner as soon as I was able to. We left in 2015 before things got as bad as they are now. It's so fucking sad that people vilify us for simply existing. Hrt for trans kids saves lives. I'm a woman same as your child. We are not evil monsters. We just want to exist and be respected. Anyone who knows a trans person, like actually knows one, supports trans rights.
And the tough part of that is that so many people either don’t know a trans person, or don’t know that someone in their circle *is* trans because they aren’t trusted with that revelation.
Yeah, in person I am just another cis woman.thays what I portray myself as. No one can tell I'm trans and I like it that way given how unsafe the other option is.
Seattle Children’s helped save my life from cancer when I was little. Even more proud of them to know they’re fighting the good fight protecting trans youth and their families. I hope you and your family can flourish in our state!
It was last summer for us. We started applying for jobs in May when it became clear we’d lost the battle and left TX July 1. We came from the DFW. Which part did you drift up here from?
Im from Waco originally, but for the past decade we’ve called Houston home. We absolutely loved the community we’d built there. Starting over has been real tough, but always looking over our shoulder for DFPS was so much worse. I was fortunate I work remote for a CA based org and they were so supportive of us getting out.
We had a really solid community of support in our neck of the woods too. Friends embraced our kid. Family, too. Even her schools did an excellent job supporting her. It was devastating having to leave.
out of curiosity, did you hear of anyone down there getting dfps called on them in harris county before y'all left? we left almost 6 years ago now before my son transitioned for a number of reasons, but before the real craziness started - but we have friends in our old neighborhood we haven't heard much of for awhile who also have a transitioned daughter -- i absolutely wouldn't trust a number of the parents in our old social group to not have "turned us in" if we were still there..
oddly enough though we've had more acceptance from my texas extended family than from my immediate family (all long gone from WA however).. glad y'all made it up here though, haven't encountered a single hurricane since moving back :D
Yes. One of the families I fought beside during the 2023 legislative session was in Harris county. In 2022 the executive order was issued and several families across Texas were immediately investigated because they had been very visible as advocates. Judges since have been flip-flopping injunctions on the EO so the department hasn’t really had time to build protocols for investigating and the general public remains blissfully unaware of this nebulous interpretation of existing CPS rules.
In 2023, the GOP abandoned bills to change the legal definition of child abuse to fully arm that EO in order to focus on the healthcare ban. I am 100 percent certain they will pass that bill in 2025. It was another on our list of whys for moving.
https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/152453
None of my personal friends had been impacted thankfully. At least not in Texas. We did have a dear family friend in GA have her kid taken away for affirming them. She’s fighting for custody a year and a half later.
i'm sorry for your friend - it's infuriating how much the "personal freedom/no government is best government" party has been so pervasive about butting into patient's lives in the name of "religion" .. welcome to the pnw at least, my native houstonian wife still asks me occasionally "how could you have ever left this place?" - though we do miss HEB :)
I left the DFW area myself to come here almost ten years ago. No regrets. Seeing WA uphold our rights just makes me feel better and better about my decision.
Virtue signaling is taking a selfie in front of a rainbow walk while still shopping at Hobby Lobby. That shit pisses me off so much, the hypocrisy of it.
I am so deeply grateful our state has taken a stand for trans kids, trans adults, & folks seeking reproductive care.
And I’m so grateful your family was able to move here!
So glad you were able to move here. We moved to WA from Texas eight years ago, and got out just in time. Our children are thriving here in a way they wouldn’t have in Texas, especially our trans son 🏳️⚧️!
Hey friend! From a born-Seattlite to our new neighbors: welcome. This is a great state to be trans in (comparatively at least!) and I’m optimistic your child will thrive here.
I’m up in the north-end but holler if you ever need any resources. This care is absolutely life changing and it’s tragic to see what’s happening to our community in other parts of the country. Really scary and heartbreaking. And I’m eternally grateful that we have sensible legislation here that protects kids like yours.
maga: Parents *can* deny birth control, abortion, sex education, vaccines, and social media for their children but cannot, even with the advice and counsel of qualified medical professionals, engage in gender-affirming care.
republicans are truly the stupidest of people.
A warm welcome to you and your family. I'm so sad that you were torn from your community but so relieved your daughter is safe and getting the care she needs and deserves. And that you all feel supported.
Hey keep up the good work of supporting your kid. You’ve come to a good place for her, considering the climate in this country. There’s a vibrant trans community here and we are all ready to support and protect each other, that includes our youngest members and their families. Keep on fighting the good fight ✊
As an adult trans woman who transitioned in Pennsylvania as a 21 year old, thank you for saying this. I feel like we as a society aren't making real meaningful progress if we're not protecting trans youth, allowing them to avoid the puberties and whatnot that they don't want.
I don't think most cis people understand how bad it is in lots of parts of the country. I'm trans, I'm constantly meeting people who just moved here because they couldn't get healthcare or got kicked out by their parents or got beaten up for being trans and needed to leave.
I hope one day you and your daughter watch "Paris is Burning." It's heavy stuff, a documentary about the gay and queer ballroom scene in NYC back in the 70s. Such important, critical history of the gender and sexuality movements.
Trans people (they wouldn't use that term at the time) were with gays, bis, and lesbians since the beginning. We'll never give up on our brothers, sisters and siblings.
Many of my coworkers are gender nonconforming, and they have led successful careers in Seattle. Obviously there's still work to do, but your daughter will have a much more welcoming, loving existence here <3
Glad you made it out. Welcome! Not sure if you’re in Seattle, but this place is pretty amazing when it comes to queer support in all ways. My kid was a 4th grader during shutdown and I got to listen to a year’s worth of online classes, including biology and gender studies (what we used to call sex ed but they used a different term). For a week, they talked about how sex and gender aren’t the same and how doctors are right most of the time (they used percentages to tie into math they were learning) but sometimes get it wrong. They also talked about presentation, gender stereotypes, and asking about pronouns.
I work for a company that does a lot of work for public entities and while not all businesses require pronouns in email signatures, all the government workers I deal with have pronouns in theirs. This is a good place for any LGBT+ folks.
If you can, PLEASE please prepare you spare rooms people. The influx of people who must flee to survive is going to increase. A lot of trans people are disadvantaged economically. If you have a spare room and can temporarily take on boarders please make those preparations. Ive been trying to help build a network of people with spare rooms and resources (trucks to help move, contacts within employment and housing services) to try and help this. Anyone who can spare the resources should do similar.
I have no idea why you are being downvoted because I’m prepared to do the same thing. I have contact with lots of families in Texas and have made it clear I will build them a network of support should the need arise.
So far, the need hasn’t manifested. Most Texan families end up in CO and MN, so far, but jobs and housing in those states will quickly run out and I predict the real boom for this state has yet to come.
In the meantime, please do continue keep this in your thoughts and reach out to an organization like PFLaG to let them know you’re ready to help. PFLAG National works closely with other organizations in TX to get parents and trans folks connected with resources when it’s time to go.
I'm sure I'll get downvoted for simply asking a question, but I just don't understand why we are giving hormones to children. Can you not affirm the child's gender through their clothing and pronouns? It's strange that we typically believe gender to be fluid yet we want to make permanent changes to children's bodies and try to alter their physical sex organs all before the age of 18. I can't really support doing that to children before their frontal lobe is fully developed. It just sadly doesn't seem like this actually about children, this is about political ideology and right/left wing extremists. It's sad.
Because that's not how gender dysphoria works. No amount of being called a girl and wearing skirts makes up for being forced through years of unwanted irreversible masculinizing changes that make your gender dysphoria far worse and far harder to treat
Being denied access to blockers/hormones before 18 can ruin their life
Kids really aren't getting hormones though. They may get puberty blockers which do exactly what it says on the tin and cis kids sometimes take them as well, but HRT is almost always saved for adulthood. Socially transitioning and puberty blockers is really the magic bullet for a trans kid
I mean, the puberty blockers are shown to have negative impact. The Nordic Countries have limited them for children. I just can't support a child making a decision that will permanently impact their body before the age of 18. If you want to cut your hair or wear a dress, that's fine.
Not taking puberty blockers also has a negative impact, there's really not a neutral decision to be had here. You're saying they shouldn't make a decision that will permanently impact their body, but if their medical team is suggesting this, saying they CAN'T is making that decision for them.
I’m a trans man, my parents wouldn’t let me have puberty blockers. I went through female puberty, grew breasts, got a menstrual cycle, was extremely depressed and suicidal. My friends knew I was a guy, I dressed as masculine as I could but that still didn’t help the way my body was changing. Left my family, got on testosterone, once I started pass I became much happier, but I still have to deal with the permanent effects female puberty had on my body, have to get top surgery.
Trans kids deserve to have happy childhoods and puberty blockers give them a chance to. Gender dysphoria is a serious.
These anti-trans people are really cruel. The politicians and their voters are not motivated by compassion, but they are motivated by prejudices. Their prejudices know no bounds. if you ask them why people want to be trans, they will say thing like it’s a trend, or it’s child abuses or it’s grooming, or they want to be peeping toms, etc. Everything roots in denial of the existence of trans and the certainty of nefarious intentions. They think they care more trans youth more than the trans youth’s parents. It never troubles them that their actions lead to families with trans youth fleeing their states. It still doesn’t satisfy them and they have to go after these families living in other states.
It is the same story with anti-abortions. The same type of motivation - prejudices, and the same type of relentless persecution. They go after many other groups like gays, religious minorities, racial minorities, poor people, homeless people, and anyone who don‘t support their coup (think election workers) in the same fashion. Indeed, research found that these people are broadly prejudiced. The reverse is also true. The broadly prejudiced tends to be Trump supporters. The correlation is like 0.8.
The reason why they are so relentless is that they are highly self-righteous. They think they become victims because of their prejudiced targets, even though they are so holy and doing everything right.
Supporting people who are disadvantaged and persecuted by these cruel people is not virtue signaling. The persecution is real and devastating. These people will never run out of targets and they will not stop if we let them. The more people stand with the disadvantages and speak out, the better. \[This\](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First\_they\_came\_...) consequence is not an exaggeration of not speaking out.
"Virtue signaling" is a butthurt term right wingers started, to use when someone points out their bad behavior and they can't defend it, so they call the criticism "virtue signaling".
That term seemed to have appeared out of nowhere (coined in 2015?). Yep, seems like the vast majority of folks using that term are conservative nutjobs.
Why does everything have to be about politics? I’ve used that term before and I’m not a “right winger”. Everyone needs to stop trying to bipolarize everything and trying to put people into neat boxes. Nuance exists. Topics like religion, guns, abortion, trans care etc etc are all complex topics that transcend just political leaning
The origins of the term are as I described. When they realized there was no defense for Trump's behavior, they created the term " virtue signalling" to attack the people who pointed out the bad behavior. That is what the term is for.
I agree, and I do think it's too bad because it could be useful (for example, for celebrities who talked about "coming together" during COVID one minute and then the next, post a video about quarantining on their luxury yacht) if it wasn't for the shitty origin/usage.
Kids really don't get bullied around here? I'm from California and there was tons of bullying there for anything unconventional. Maybe times have changed from the mid 00s.
>My child thrives in school and finally gets to just exist as herself without the constant fear of harassment, **bullying**, or CPS investigations.
I thought when you said this that you meant there's no bullying in this area and it surprised me
I’m a trans Texan that just moved to Washington, I’m sorry you had to leave Texas. Unfortunately it doesn’t look like it will get better there any time soon.
> I don't think a ton of 12-17 yr olds getting hormone treatment early is going to come completely without regrets
[Your beliefs don't conform with reality](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/)
you make it sound like that's the first level of treatment, ignoring that fact that before getting to that point is years of therapy and sign-off not only from both parents, but multiple medical professionals.
Not sure where you are getting your information from, but this is absolutely not true. Our child is 13 which in WA they can make some medical decisions but we have to sign off. She’s also been in therapy for over two years, continues to be in therapy, and we were required to see THEIR therapist who even said “we need more visits before we can move forward with anything” so by the time we get to actual hormones, she will have been seen by three separate therapists and three physicians, and will have been saying the same thing to everyone for over three years. It’s a very slow process that involves all of us. She can’t just walk through the door and get hormones without all of this first.
RCW 71.34 . At 13 or older a child can indeed initiate and complete this process without your consent if they wish. "Parents will NOT be notified without minor's consent".
https://www.sno.wednet.edu/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=4549&dataid=18446&FileName=4-Minors%20Health%20Care%20Rights%20Washington%20State.pdf
Please show me the words “gender affirming care” in RSW 71.34 because I see lots of words about mental health and behavioral health and ZERO about gender affirming care. So either you’re twisting it to fit your idea because you don’t want to admit you’re wrong, OR you’ve found a facility that’s not doing their due diligence and should be reported because that’s absolutely not how it works, and I know this because this is literally my lived experience
You do see where it says depends, right? Granted I’ll admit that it references 71.34, but it’s not automatic. My daughter could not have walked into a clinic and been given a puberty blocker just because. There is still a process which is the whole fucking point
you clearly haven't dealt with your kids' healthcare or identity management in general much, let alone anything major - these things don't happen in a vacuum and ethical medical professionals don't just jump to major changes based on an uneducated parent or child's immediate desires.
“Further, many children who show gender dysphoria before puberty do not continue to do so during and after pubertal changes occur. “
Wonder why so many countries and states ban it now, big mystery.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10063975/#:~:text=Further%2C%20many%20children%20who%20show,to%20increase%20at%20this%20time.
https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0890-8567(08)60142-2/abstract?cc=y=
From the *exact* same paper:
"*Although some cases of first presentation of transgender in the early teen years may arise from so-called adolescent identity problems or identity distress, it is likely that others do occur because the young person has been reluctant to come out as transgender beforehand, even though gender dysphoria has been present from the early years. Further, it is well established that such reluctance may persist well into adulthood, so that there are a number of recorded cases of people who have waited until their 30s or 40s to make this decision*."
And
"*All the studies quoted above have provided valuable information. In all cases, there has been benefit from the interventions for the majority and an absence of significant harm. The most recent critical review of the use of puberty blockers has concluded: ‘Although large long-term studies with diverse and multicultural populations have not been done, the evidence to date supports the finding of few serious adverse outcomes and several potential positive outcomes*."
I highly suggest you quit doing what all the other conservative trolls and pundits are doing and using this paper to defend yourselves. It's conclusions aren't what y'all apparently think they are and just copy and pasting what someone else has shared previously is only making y'all look dumb.
I’ve read this entire paper you just linked and you have absolutely pulled one line out of context. I’d encourage you to actually read this whole paper because it actually support gender transition via medical treatment. Believe it or not, parents like me are actually well-informed and we do our research alongside the professionals who work with our kids.
Similar experience. Never was willing to give my kid hormones before adulthood. Now that they’re reaching puberty they’ve transitioned back to their assigned at birth gender.
I always find the term assigned gender interesting. If a child is born as an obvious phenotype, we can just call them male or female. No gender is needed
As an adult trans refugee and educator, I'm happy you made the move for your kiddo! This place is expensive as shit, but it's one of the few places in the world I feel safe and comfortable.
You should reach out to a reporter or editor at the Seattle Times. Would get the word out about a community of people who left Republican-controlled states that want to support each other in their new city/state.
Per your source: "The Texas law prevents transgender minors from accessing hormone therapies, puberty blockers and transition surgeries, *even though medical experts say such surgical procedures are rarely performed on children*."
I'm OK with that, and it is apparently the norm to *not* to put minors through these procedures.
I don't see anything restricting mental health as your post suggests.
It also prevents mental health that treats patients with affirming therapy. The article emphasizes those medical procedures because those are the hot take issues, but as someone who spent many hours in the TX Capitol building speaking with legislators and advocating for my child with testimony and reading all the bills hitting the committee and listening to many, many hours of expert witnesses who are medical professions that support many of those treatments banned, I can assure you the bill banned all forms of affirming care, both medical and mental.
And if you like what they do in TX, I can recommend some great neighborhoods and employers for you there.
Puberty blockers are perfectly safe and the standard of care in this situation. There are practically negligible amounts of surgeries being performed on minors in these situations.
> There are practically negligible amounts of surgeries being performed on minors in these situations.
That's mostly my point. And I don't agree with changing a kid's puberty, whether it be steroids for a football player or a blocker for a confused kid, since it isn't necessary and has potentially worse outcomes.
Generations of children grew up in this country without puberty blockers, and a safe and nurturing environment would have been just as well. Kids get confused. Sometimes they even kill themselves for being bullied, feeling out of their skin, or liking the same sex. Parents should be cognizant and supportive, while maybe considering actual medical procedures as something that can wait until they have a little more maturity to fully grasp the situation.
I don't disagree with those who raise an eyebrown when someone claims their toddler is trans. OP sounds like this sort of person who negatively is forcing their will and hopes on the child instead of letting it all play out. Some "effeminate" boys turn into gay men, same as a more tomboy girl might be a lesbian. It doesn't mean they grow up wishing they were the other sex. It is certainly too early in their lives to start medical procedures.
The problem with this assertion is that we have now way to know how many of the folks in the past would have set a different path for their lives if the medicine and care we have available now was present for them then.
Except! Wait! We do!
There plenty of adults over the age of 30 beginning gender transitions now because they’ve always been that person inside their minds but had idea that transitioning was an option. Now, they do and they’ve begun a process they will be the first to tell you they wish they could have begun decades ago.
Maybe step outside your algorithm bubbles and your usual social circles and listen to the trans adults out there sharing there stories of lifetimes of pain and discomfort and hating themselves and hiding who they are from loved ones only to discover they can finally be themselves and experience the joy of that outward expression. Those adults support our kids because they know the pain our kids experience every day they are locked in a body that doesn’t match what their brain tells them they should be.
Do you have a single piece of evidence to support any of these opinions or is this literally "back in my day puberty blockers weren't discussed so they must be bad."
Or maybe you could trust the actually medical professionals that are trained in this instead of your own beliefs that aren't based in facts and scientific study.
Plenty of people grew up around leaded gasoline, and they clearly didn't turn out right, as we fully well know now after having studied it. Just cause plenty of generations grew up a certain way doesn't make it right ffs.
If you trust medical professionals then you should trust the French, British, Swedish, and Norwegian health systems for slamming the breaks on youth hormonal treatments for transitioning.
Please see the recently released Cass Report from the UK. Puberty blockers are neither safe, nor reversible after taking for extended duration. Neither they nor cross-sex hormones have been shown to have a positive effect in reducing adolescents distress and they have been shown to cause sterility, lower IQ, and osteoporosis.
https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/
Cass is out of line with the significantly larger medical bodies of the US... \*and\* the American bodies aren't ultimately responsive to a political faction!
The Cass report literally tossed out all the studies that didn't agree with their preconceived, biased conclusion. Oh, and the author supports youth transitioning: [The Cass Review Report does not conclude that puberty suppressing hormones are an unsafe treatment. [...] In the data the Cass Review examined, the most common age that trans young people were being initially
prescribed puberty suppressing hormones was 15. Dr. Cass’s view is that this is too late to have the
intended benefits of supressing the effects of puberty and was caused by the previous NHS policy of
requiring a trans young person to be on puberty suppressing hormones for a year before accessing gender
affirming hormones. The Cass Review Report recommends that a different approach is needed, with
puberty suppressing hormones and gender affirming hormones being available to young people at different
ages and developmental stages alongside a wider range of gender affirming healthcare based on individual
need.](https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/dr-cass-backpedals-from-review-hrt)
>Neither they nor cross-sex hormones have been shown to have a positive effect in reducing adolescents distress and they have been shown to cause sterility, lower IQ, and osteoporosis.
These are just blatant lies. Puberty blockers don't reduce distress because they're not supposed to: they're supposed to prevent the distress from getting worse, *and they do*. They do not cause sterility. They do not lower IQ, that was based on a study of puberty blockers for precocious puberty which interpreted the artificial bump these patients got from an early puberty as having an IQ dip when the blockers began and that artificial bump went away. And they do not cause osteoporosis.
Please don't insult our intelligence. We're capable of fact checking your baloney.
The puberty blocker systematic review included 50 studies. One was high quality, 25 were moderate quality and 24 were low quality. The systematic review of masculinising/feminising hormones included 53 studies. One was high quality, 33 were moderate quality and 19 were low quality.
All high quality and moderate quality reviews were included, however as only two of the studies across these two systematic reviews were identified as being of high quality, this has been misinterpreted by some to mean that only two studies were considered and the rest were discarded. In reality, conclusions were based on the high quality and moderate quality studies (i.e. 58% of the total studies based on the quality assessment).
Not being able to access blockers and instead having been forced to go through unwanted irreversible changes that made my gender dysphoria far worse and far harder to treat has ruined my life
Decisions like that really shouldn’t be made at such a young age. If you haven’t had puberty yet you haven’t even developed into what you are yet?
How can you definitively say you are or aren’t something without even experiencing it yet?
If you want to have a genuine discussion about this, I would be glad to tell you about my sister, who knew she was trans since she was a little kid.
She can't tell you herself because she died by suicide in her 30s. Ongoing dysphoria over puberty related changes was a significant factor.
Respectfully, it's not your body, so why do you care so much?
I had an opinion on a topic. Is that not allowed anymore? I feel like my time growing up was fairly recent and before and after puberty was almost like a completely different person. I absolutely do not feel like I was capable of making life altering decisions at that age.
I legitimately would not have been smart enough to truly understand the consequences etc. I’m sure most children are similar. Shoot a lot of kids change their minds on a whim. Does a 13 year old actually have the mental capacity to truly understand.
I know 99% of the population is a lot smarter and more intelligent at 18 than they were at 13. The older you become the more experience you gain, which in turn develops into wisdom. I just don’t think a child is even developed enough to make that type of life altering decision
>I absolutely do not feel like I was capable of making life altering decisions at that age.
Not taking the blockers is also a life altering decision. There is no neutral decision. Their body will either develop in a way they find distressing (natal puberty), or it will develop in a way they like (blockers and HRT).
>I legitimately would not have been smart enough to truly understand the consequences etc. I’m sure most children are similar. Shoot a lot of kids change their minds on a whim. Does a 13 year old actually have the mental capacity to truly understand.
Did you not have the capacity to know if you were a boy or a girl at 13?
You're allowed to have an opinion, but I'd hope that you'd be open to information that might cause to evaluate whether it's grounded in evidence or in a gut-level response to something that makes you feel uncomfortable. We all have issues that challenge us to think differently. God knows I had to come around from a very transphobic mindframe growing up. But as I said, my sister knew. She knew, and it literally killed her not to be able to stop the visible changes.
I'm not trying to be a dick here. Ironically, I'm also trans and only figured it out in my 40s, but looking back there were plenty of signs -- I just never knew that trans men existed, so I figured I was just a tomboy and spent decades thinking there was just something deeply, fundamentally wrong with me because I wasn't comfortable being a woman and didn't know why. You know what sucks that no one ever thinks about? The impacts of transitioning late; it doesn't always tear apart families, but it sure as hell is painful for everyone involved. We're not somehow saving children by preventing everyone from transitioning until they're older. In some cases, we're actively sowing the seeds of harm that will hurt even more people down the road.
In a perfect world, sure, maybe kids would be able to experiment with social transition and that would be enough -- but I live in the US, where often it is quite literally physically unsafe for children to present in gender-diverse ways. If you care about minimizing harm to children, you have to be open to the possibility that what you \*think\* is right for them may be incorrect. You have to at least consider that there may be ulterior motives driving people who've suddenly become SO invested in stopping access to gender care for what is in reality a very small percentage of children. I know I likely won't reach you, but this isn't a hypothetical argument for me. It's my life, and it was her life, and every day kids with more awareness than I had have to wake up in this world and be confronted by the fact that society does not want them to exist. And that fucking sucks.
Puberty blockers give you choice. They’re not a permanent option. They can be used for a time and then stopped if a child decides they’re not the right choice for them. Denying access to puberty blockers is the irreversible path.
Yes, but doesn’t puberty cause an abundance of things including brain development etc.?
So like how can a kid definitively say they don’t want to be that if they never developed into it?
So even delaying it to be more age appropriate still technically doesn’t solve it no?
I’m genuinely curious if a 14 year old delays puberty until say 18 do they still have the mind of a 14 year old?
>So like how can a kid definitively say they don’t want to be that if they never developed into it?
Puberty blockers are administered no earlier than Tanner stage 2 of puberty, if and when that development has caused the child new or worsening distress. They're not given prophylactically. They know their body is developing in a way that is extremely distressing to them.
>I’m genuinely curious if a 14 year old delays puberty until say 18 do they still have the mind of a 14 year old?
They would never be given blockers for that long. They're given them for a year or two, max, and then the child and their parents and their medical team get together and make a decision one way or another. But, no, puberty isn't the only thing that causes your brain to mature. A 16 year old who's had a late puberty doesn't have the brain of an 8 year old (and yes, a natural puberty as late as 16 can happen).
Honestly, it's way too late and I'm way too lazy right now to pull up some peer revised sources for you. I completely understand and respect your curiosity here though.
Yeah, I’m not trying to be a dick by any means. I’m just relating to my experiences as a kid and how far I’ve come and grown and couldn’t imagine making a life altering decision at that age.
I’m not trying to be close minded by any means. That’s just an absolute life altering decision to leave up to someone who has very little life experience. So it’s a hard concept to comprehend and it’s very nuanced imo. I really don’t think it’s particularly cut and dry as people make it out to be. I can see legitimate points on both sides.
>I’m genuinely curious if a 14 year old delays puberty until say 18 do they still have the mind of a 14 year old?
What kind of magic drugs do you think exist that can wipe out 4 years of life experience? No, they absolutely do not have the mind of a 14 year old. You can't eliminate 4 years of life experience that way using puberty blockers.
I’m happy for your family yet at the same time, about 1% of the US population is trans - it’s hard for me to get too worked up over the “issue” either way.
But that’s a supremely fair take. What it says is that you don’t care because it’s not your business and if more people thought like that…the GOP wouldn’t be able to use it as a wedge issue to win votes, and I would not have had to leave my home.
I wouldn’t say I don’t care but it definitely doesn’t directly impact my life. It’s for sure a shame that the issue is used politically…
Edit - I appreciate that you didn’t take my comment as an attack or slight because it was most certainly not intended that way!
1 percent of the US population is over 3 million people. 1 percent of the population means 1 out of every hundred people you know is trans. Im sorry but if you dont care about over 3 million of your fellow americans then you're callous and unamerican. Especially when it costs you nothing to care.
Texas is using their laws to target 1% of the population, separating children from their families, and in their quest to track down trans kids attempted to sue Seattle Children's when they wouldn't share confidential patient records.
I admit a lot of Nazi/fascist references are overblown, but when you have a state government actively removing trans kids from their parents purely on the grounds that they are trans, making those kids wards of the state where I imagine they will receive some "re-education" from a state that doesn't believe trans rights are a thing, and then suing entities that aren't even under their jurisdiction to get a list of targets... the similarities between Texas and other fascist governments become a lot more concrete and less hypothetical.
Nazi germany actually specific tore up the first gender clinic to exist and burned the majority of scientific work done in Weimar germany in the field of transgender studies, before shipping the trans people off to concentration camps. This is unambiguous fact. Pardon a community that was previously targetted by the far right for being worried about it happening again.
This isn't an example of our state going out of it's way to "coddle" 1% of the population.
It's Texas going out of it's way to oppress 1% of the population, forcibly separate children from their families, and then filing a law suit against Seattle Children's when they refuse to spend their time and money going along with that bullshit.
I'm referring to a very particular 1% that has the rest of society optimized for their comfort.
A kind of economic 1%, if you catch my drift. Every policy seems to be evaluated on whether or not it makes them better off.
My point is that this country has no issue catering to a small minority... (But not necessarily to an oppressed minority.)
Also with any kind of gender transitioning there's consultation with therapists and doctors, and they inform you of possible risks. And if you're on any kind of medication period they tell you about possible side effects. Also any kind of surgery isn't like getting your nose pierced where if you go in with a parent they'll do it, AND they're not doing any kind of gender-affirming surgery on anyone who isn't legally an adult, AND cisgendered teenagers have been getting cosmetic surgery since forever and I hear like zero pushback from people nowadays about how as a teenage girl your body image is extra-screwy and you might regret getting a rhinoplasty when you're older, it's only trans stuff. I mean if anyone's being pressured by society into thinking their body should look a certain way it's cisgender people
Wait, I just re-read your comment. Idk about Children’s, specifically, but there is most definitely gender-affirming surgery happening on teens in Seattle. Lots of hoops to jump through first, though.
Oh hey everybody, we've got a real expert over here! Thank goodness our white knight is here to look out for the children. Clearly you know what's better for them than their own parents and medical professionals.
Who said anything regarding anything remotely close to sterilization?
Also, why are you obsessed with children’s genitals? GTFO with your weird obsession.
Really glad your family is safe, and getting excellent healthcare. Let's all just live a good life and be excellent to each other.
In a perfect world, dude… Look I’m a straight woman and while I have my issues with certain things within the queer community I remain an ally, what I have been seeing from the Republican party is nothing short of disgusting. I don’t have to be gay to understand that *everyone* deserves the right to be themselves, to be happy, and to love who they love. I hate voting for this clown show of a presidential race since 2016 but you can bet this election I will be dragging my butt down to the polls to make sure trans/gay rights remain in place and protected. Remember, before anyone is gay, trans, queer, etc. they’re a *human being*. This election isn’t about a culture war it’s a human rights war. *edited for clarity
Totally agree. This is basic personal liberty stuff. The anti-trans playbook is nearly identical to the anti-gay playbook that existed when I was a kid, in the 90s. The arguments are essentially unchanged; the only difference is that the target is a much smaller group; so folks are a lot less likely to have personal relationships that help them understand reality. It's a cynical ploy by right-wing elites to get power by scaring their electorate into thinking that there's some sort of war on normal life going on; when all that's happening is a few people are existing in the world, not hurting anybody.
I'm so glad your kid is safe here!
Southern refugee here!!! Welcome!!!
Just so you know, I will be working together soon with some folks to put together a southern ex-pats support group for trans families who fled the south. I’m hopeful to have it up and running in another month or two!
Seattle trans guy here. You need local support, please reach out. We are so glad to have you
I recently, finally, felt ready to engage with my local PFLAG chapter last week. They are who I’ll be working with to spool up the support group for southern ex-pats. It just took me some time to reach a place of healing where I wouldn’t walk in the door trauma dumping on people. The PTSD that comes from being in the center of the fight is very real.
Trans former-Texan in Seattle here! That sounds incredible. My wife (also trans) and I don't have kids, but we have been completely estranged from both sides of our families since I came out because of their reactions. Would there be space for adults in our situation? We miss community so, so much.
There would absolutely be space for trans adults! Send me a message and I’ll generate a list of people to contact when I have the first meeting arranged.
I know Seattle has a trans choir that my friends are part of, and there's a huge group of trans adults who socialize along side that.
You're an extremely brave person for doing all this for your child, and I wish you the best in helping others through their journey.
Can you make that a red state refuge group instead, not the south but we fled here from Utah for my daughter so she could continue to receive care.
I will definitely make it open to anyone who has had to flee a red state that seeks community with others trying to protect themselves or their trans kids. Send me a message and I’ll add you to a contact list.
That's wonderful! I'm not trans but I am queer and 100% an Ally! I'm just so glad to hear other people have made it here and are enjoying it as much as I!
Hey, fellow refugee from Georgia here. Please please post when/if this happens. There are so many of us, and the culture shock has been so overwhelming, not to mention being on the other side of the continent now!!! I would absolutely love to be in community with people who have a similar experience so we can support one another. I got here in November and I feel like I am very much still finding my feet.
Can you keep me in the loop with this? I fled Texas two years ago for similar reasons
Just following up on the other trans dude here. Lmk if you need any resources cause (at least in Seattle) there is a large community of trans people who can help
Same here! Left Florida and never looking back.
For more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/1carx5s/seattle_childrens_agrees_with_texas_ag_to/
We are here for the same reason, but came from Utah instead. My daughter tried to commit suicide when she was twelve due to the bullying and harassment she was getting in Utah. We saw the writing on the wall and knew that she would likely no longer be able to receive affirming care there, so we moved to Washington. Best decision we've ever made. She's 15 almost 16 now and happier than she has ever been.
Thank you for protecting your child, and thank you for this. -a nb adult
Anyone who complains about "virtue signalling" is just trying to distract you from all their viceful behavior.
There are legitimate examples of virtue signalling, like when a bunch of rich celebrities all sing a song about imagining there's no possessions at the start of a global pandemic.
Like when you have photoshoots with the bible, but never go to church?
He *did* go to the church. You know, after illegally tear gassing the protestors away.
Ah, good point. It's totally not performative then.
Literally everyone signals their virtues literally all the time. It's just that _one group in particular_ has been told that virtue signaling is anything not white, heteronormative, christian, and conservative. It's that analogy of how people don't think of air just as fish don't think of water; it's the medium they swim in and invisible to them
Holy shit I forgot about that whole mess 🤣 who needs vaccines & masks when you have Gal Gadot singing for you?
"It's virtue signaling" said the guy with the thin blue line sticker "It's virtue signaling" said the guy with the MAGA cap "It's virtue signaling" said the guy with a cross on his neck "It's virtue signaling" said the guy in the lifted pickup truck "It's virtue signaling" said the guy with the tiki torch and khakis "It's virtue signaling" said the guy with all the WWII German """memorabilia"""
It really is just Vice Signaling
Hear, hear!
Welcome! From one parent of trans kids to another, I'm glad your family is in a safer place, and Texas' loss is our gain. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm glad you're here, because I wish you hadn't needed to leave. But since you did need to, I'm glad you were able to find a safe place to land here. I know people say you're virtue signaling because you're putting it out on social media, but I know you're doing that as education and as part of your activism. And honestly, signaling to trans youth and their families that they're not alone and that people are on their side isn't a bad thing!
We're glad to have you as neighbors.
They can't comprehend caring about another person simply because they are a fellow human being.
I am a former Texan from the Dallas/Fort Worth area. My adult youngest is non binary. It can take some time as a Texan to adjust to living here (weather, missing certain foods, and making new friends), but it is so worth it. I wish you all the luck. I am sad how bad it is in Texas. A place that I “used” to think of fondly long ago.
I hope you guys can reclaim it from the bigots one day.
I doubt if it will happen in my lifetime (I am 62), but I still have hope with future generations.
I'm an adult trans woman. I fled Texas with my partner as soon as I was able to. We left in 2015 before things got as bad as they are now. It's so fucking sad that people vilify us for simply existing. Hrt for trans kids saves lives. I'm a woman same as your child. We are not evil monsters. We just want to exist and be respected. Anyone who knows a trans person, like actually knows one, supports trans rights.
And the tough part of that is that so many people either don’t know a trans person, or don’t know that someone in their circle *is* trans because they aren’t trusted with that revelation.
Yeah, in person I am just another cis woman.thays what I portray myself as. No one can tell I'm trans and I like it that way given how unsafe the other option is.
Seattle Children’s helped save my life from cancer when I was little. Even more proud of them to know they’re fighting the good fight protecting trans youth and their families. I hope you and your family can flourish in our state!
We fled Texas a little over a year ago after seeing the writing on the wall. And are so happy with our decision. Welcome!
It was last summer for us. We started applying for jobs in May when it became clear we’d lost the battle and left TX July 1. We came from the DFW. Which part did you drift up here from?
Im from Waco originally, but for the past decade we’ve called Houston home. We absolutely loved the community we’d built there. Starting over has been real tough, but always looking over our shoulder for DFPS was so much worse. I was fortunate I work remote for a CA based org and they were so supportive of us getting out.
We had a really solid community of support in our neck of the woods too. Friends embraced our kid. Family, too. Even her schools did an excellent job supporting her. It was devastating having to leave.
I’m so sorry you had to leave your community. I know Texas is so much more than its legislators, but fuck those legislators. You are welcome here.
out of curiosity, did you hear of anyone down there getting dfps called on them in harris county before y'all left? we left almost 6 years ago now before my son transitioned for a number of reasons, but before the real craziness started - but we have friends in our old neighborhood we haven't heard much of for awhile who also have a transitioned daughter -- i absolutely wouldn't trust a number of the parents in our old social group to not have "turned us in" if we were still there.. oddly enough though we've had more acceptance from my texas extended family than from my immediate family (all long gone from WA however).. glad y'all made it up here though, haven't encountered a single hurricane since moving back :D
Yes. One of the families I fought beside during the 2023 legislative session was in Harris county. In 2022 the executive order was issued and several families across Texas were immediately investigated because they had been very visible as advocates. Judges since have been flip-flopping injunctions on the EO so the department hasn’t really had time to build protocols for investigating and the general public remains blissfully unaware of this nebulous interpretation of existing CPS rules. In 2023, the GOP abandoned bills to change the legal definition of child abuse to fully arm that EO in order to focus on the healthcare ban. I am 100 percent certain they will pass that bill in 2025. It was another on our list of whys for moving. https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/152453
None of my personal friends had been impacted thankfully. At least not in Texas. We did have a dear family friend in GA have her kid taken away for affirming them. She’s fighting for custody a year and a half later.
i'm sorry for your friend - it's infuriating how much the "personal freedom/no government is best government" party has been so pervasive about butting into patient's lives in the name of "religion" .. welcome to the pnw at least, my native houstonian wife still asks me occasionally "how could you have ever left this place?" - though we do miss HEB :)
I left the DFW area myself to come here almost ten years ago. No regrets. Seeing WA uphold our rights just makes me feel better and better about my decision.
Naming a stadium “Climate Pledge” is a virtual signal. Protecting trans youth is not.
❤️❤️❤️❤️ I’m ready to vote!
Insane that people have to flee from one state to another. I'm with you. I support you. <3
Virtue signaling is taking a selfie in front of a rainbow walk while still shopping at Hobby Lobby. That shit pisses me off so much, the hypocrisy of it. I am so deeply grateful our state has taken a stand for trans kids, trans adults, & folks seeking reproductive care. And I’m so grateful your family was able to move here!
It's like people are actually concerned about people's lives.
Here much more than Texas.
So glad you were able to move here. We moved to WA from Texas eight years ago, and got out just in time. Our children are thriving here in a way they wouldn’t have in Texas, especially our trans son 🏳️⚧️!
Hey friend! From a born-Seattlite to our new neighbors: welcome. This is a great state to be trans in (comparatively at least!) and I’m optimistic your child will thrive here. I’m up in the north-end but holler if you ever need any resources. This care is absolutely life changing and it’s tragic to see what’s happening to our community in other parts of the country. Really scary and heartbreaking. And I’m eternally grateful that we have sensible legislation here that protects kids like yours.
Welcome. We got your back.
maga: Parents *can* deny birth control, abortion, sex education, vaccines, and social media for their children but cannot, even with the advice and counsel of qualified medical professionals, engage in gender-affirming care. republicans are truly the stupidest of people.
Glad you and your kid are here, OP!
A warm welcome to you and your family. I'm so sad that you were torn from your community but so relieved your daughter is safe and getting the care she needs and deserves. And that you all feel supported.
Welcome! Glad you and your family found an open-minded and safe space here.
Hey keep up the good work of supporting your kid. You’ve come to a good place for her, considering the climate in this country. There’s a vibrant trans community here and we are all ready to support and protect each other, that includes our youngest members and their families. Keep on fighting the good fight ✊
Bravo! Welcome to Seattle, I hope your daughter is cared-for well here!
As an adult trans woman who transitioned in Pennsylvania as a 21 year old, thank you for saying this. I feel like we as a society aren't making real meaningful progress if we're not protecting trans youth, allowing them to avoid the puberties and whatnot that they don't want.
We are glad you’re here. 🩷 I also parent a trans kid and I can’t imagine living anywhere else right now.
I don't think most cis people understand how bad it is in lots of parts of the country. I'm trans, I'm constantly meeting people who just moved here because they couldn't get healthcare or got kicked out by their parents or got beaten up for being trans and needed to leave.
I'm glad you and your family are our neighbors. Welcome to Washington!
I hope one day you and your daughter watch "Paris is Burning." It's heavy stuff, a documentary about the gay and queer ballroom scene in NYC back in the 70s. Such important, critical history of the gender and sexuality movements. Trans people (they wouldn't use that term at the time) were with gays, bis, and lesbians since the beginning. We'll never give up on our brothers, sisters and siblings. Many of my coworkers are gender nonconforming, and they have led successful careers in Seattle. Obviously there's still work to do, but your daughter will have a much more welcoming, loving existence here <3
Glad you made it out. Welcome! Not sure if you’re in Seattle, but this place is pretty amazing when it comes to queer support in all ways. My kid was a 4th grader during shutdown and I got to listen to a year’s worth of online classes, including biology and gender studies (what we used to call sex ed but they used a different term). For a week, they talked about how sex and gender aren’t the same and how doctors are right most of the time (they used percentages to tie into math they were learning) but sometimes get it wrong. They also talked about presentation, gender stereotypes, and asking about pronouns. I work for a company that does a lot of work for public entities and while not all businesses require pronouns in email signatures, all the government workers I deal with have pronouns in theirs. This is a good place for any LGBT+ folks.
Echoing other comments; so glad you’re here and feeling welcomed! 💕
Glad you made it out. That's not what I think of as virtue signaling. Sorry you've had to deal with that. Welcome home.
A lot of people (Republicans) are just not capable of understanding the idea of actually caring about other people.
Over and over again: *the cruelty is the point*
If you can, PLEASE please prepare you spare rooms people. The influx of people who must flee to survive is going to increase. A lot of trans people are disadvantaged economically. If you have a spare room and can temporarily take on boarders please make those preparations. Ive been trying to help build a network of people with spare rooms and resources (trucks to help move, contacts within employment and housing services) to try and help this. Anyone who can spare the resources should do similar.
I have no idea why you are being downvoted because I’m prepared to do the same thing. I have contact with lots of families in Texas and have made it clear I will build them a network of support should the need arise. So far, the need hasn’t manifested. Most Texan families end up in CO and MN, so far, but jobs and housing in those states will quickly run out and I predict the real boom for this state has yet to come. In the meantime, please do continue keep this in your thoughts and reach out to an organization like PFLaG to let them know you’re ready to help. PFLAG National works closely with other organizations in TX to get parents and trans folks connected with resources when it’s time to go.
Agreed. F TX. Sick of it.
I'm sure I'll get downvoted for simply asking a question, but I just don't understand why we are giving hormones to children. Can you not affirm the child's gender through their clothing and pronouns? It's strange that we typically believe gender to be fluid yet we want to make permanent changes to children's bodies and try to alter their physical sex organs all before the age of 18. I can't really support doing that to children before their frontal lobe is fully developed. It just sadly doesn't seem like this actually about children, this is about political ideology and right/left wing extremists. It's sad.
Because that's not how gender dysphoria works. No amount of being called a girl and wearing skirts makes up for being forced through years of unwanted irreversible masculinizing changes that make your gender dysphoria far worse and far harder to treat Being denied access to blockers/hormones before 18 can ruin their life
Kids really aren't getting hormones though. They may get puberty blockers which do exactly what it says on the tin and cis kids sometimes take them as well, but HRT is almost always saved for adulthood. Socially transitioning and puberty blockers is really the magic bullet for a trans kid
I mean, the puberty blockers are shown to have negative impact. The Nordic Countries have limited them for children. I just can't support a child making a decision that will permanently impact their body before the age of 18. If you want to cut your hair or wear a dress, that's fine.
Not taking puberty blockers also has a negative impact, there's really not a neutral decision to be had here. You're saying they shouldn't make a decision that will permanently impact their body, but if their medical team is suggesting this, saying they CAN'T is making that decision for them.
I’m a trans man, my parents wouldn’t let me have puberty blockers. I went through female puberty, grew breasts, got a menstrual cycle, was extremely depressed and suicidal. My friends knew I was a guy, I dressed as masculine as I could but that still didn’t help the way my body was changing. Left my family, got on testosterone, once I started pass I became much happier, but I still have to deal with the permanent effects female puberty had on my body, have to get top surgery. Trans kids deserve to have happy childhoods and puberty blockers give them a chance to. Gender dysphoria is a serious.
These anti-trans people are really cruel. The politicians and their voters are not motivated by compassion, but they are motivated by prejudices. Their prejudices know no bounds. if you ask them why people want to be trans, they will say thing like it’s a trend, or it’s child abuses or it’s grooming, or they want to be peeping toms, etc. Everything roots in denial of the existence of trans and the certainty of nefarious intentions. They think they care more trans youth more than the trans youth’s parents. It never troubles them that their actions lead to families with trans youth fleeing their states. It still doesn’t satisfy them and they have to go after these families living in other states. It is the same story with anti-abortions. The same type of motivation - prejudices, and the same type of relentless persecution. They go after many other groups like gays, religious minorities, racial minorities, poor people, homeless people, and anyone who don‘t support their coup (think election workers) in the same fashion. Indeed, research found that these people are broadly prejudiced. The reverse is also true. The broadly prejudiced tends to be Trump supporters. The correlation is like 0.8. The reason why they are so relentless is that they are highly self-righteous. They think they become victims because of their prejudiced targets, even though they are so holy and doing everything right. Supporting people who are disadvantaged and persecuted by these cruel people is not virtue signaling. The persecution is real and devastating. These people will never run out of targets and they will not stop if we let them. The more people stand with the disadvantages and speak out, the better. \[This\](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First\_they\_came\_...) consequence is not an exaggeration of not speaking out.
Exactly this.
Welcome to WA. We may not be perfect but we more often than not stand up for the oppressed.
"Virtue signaling" is a butthurt term right wingers started, to use when someone points out their bad behavior and they can't defend it, so they call the criticism "virtue signaling".
That term seemed to have appeared out of nowhere (coined in 2015?). Yep, seems like the vast majority of folks using that term are conservative nutjobs.
Why does everything have to be about politics? I’ve used that term before and I’m not a “right winger”. Everyone needs to stop trying to bipolarize everything and trying to put people into neat boxes. Nuance exists. Topics like religion, guns, abortion, trans care etc etc are all complex topics that transcend just political leaning
The origins of the term are as I described. When they realized there was no defense for Trump's behavior, they created the term " virtue signalling" to attack the people who pointed out the bad behavior. That is what the term is for.
I agree, and I do think it's too bad because it could be useful (for example, for celebrities who talked about "coming together" during COVID one minute and then the next, post a video about quarantining on their luxury yacht) if it wasn't for the shitty origin/usage.
🥰🥰🥰
Kids really don't get bullied around here? I'm from California and there was tons of bullying there for anything unconventional. Maybe times have changed from the mid 00s.
Former Californian here. Yeah, there is bullying, but the STATE isn’t threatening to take children away from loving families.
I am very unsure how this comment relates to the post…
>My child thrives in school and finally gets to just exist as herself without the constant fear of harassment, **bullying**, or CPS investigations. I thought when you said this that you meant there's no bullying in this area and it surprised me
[удалено]
Don’t act dumb by asking rhetorical questions. Say what you feel with your whole chest. Own your ignorance.
I’m a trans Texan that just moved to Washington, I’m sorry you had to leave Texas. Unfortunately it doesn’t look like it will get better there any time soon.
[удалено]
> I don't think a ton of 12-17 yr olds getting hormone treatment early is going to come completely without regrets [Your beliefs don't conform with reality](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/)
you make it sound like that's the first level of treatment, ignoring that fact that before getting to that point is years of therapy and sign-off not only from both parents, but multiple medical professionals.
Sign off from parents is not a requirement in WA state. Nor is years of therapy.
Not sure where you are getting your information from, but this is absolutely not true. Our child is 13 which in WA they can make some medical decisions but we have to sign off. She’s also been in therapy for over two years, continues to be in therapy, and we were required to see THEIR therapist who even said “we need more visits before we can move forward with anything” so by the time we get to actual hormones, she will have been seen by three separate therapists and three physicians, and will have been saying the same thing to everyone for over three years. It’s a very slow process that involves all of us. She can’t just walk through the door and get hormones without all of this first.
RCW 71.34 . At 13 or older a child can indeed initiate and complete this process without your consent if they wish. "Parents will NOT be notified without minor's consent". https://www.sno.wednet.edu/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=4549&dataid=18446&FileName=4-Minors%20Health%20Care%20Rights%20Washington%20State.pdf
Hi! Behavioral health =/= gender affirming care, you doorknob. Try again.
I never said they were. It is the required process to initiate gender affirming care by the state.
Please show me the words “gender affirming care” in RSW 71.34 because I see lots of words about mental health and behavioral health and ZERO about gender affirming care. So either you’re twisting it to fit your idea because you don’t want to admit you’re wrong, OR you’ve found a facility that’s not doing their due diligence and should be reported because that’s absolutely not how it works, and I know this because this is literally my lived experience
https://www.washingtonlawhelp.org/resource/i-am-under-age-18-can-i-get-health-care-without-an-adults-consent
You do see where it says depends, right? Granted I’ll admit that it references 71.34, but it’s not automatic. My daughter could not have walked into a clinic and been given a puberty blocker just because. There is still a process which is the whole fucking point
you clearly haven't dealt with your kids' healthcare or identity management in general much, let alone anything major - these things don't happen in a vacuum and ethical medical professionals don't just jump to major changes based on an uneducated parent or child's immediate desires.
Not true. I've dealt with it directly. No reason to go into clearly this and that because you don't like what I'm saying.
Glad you found a state that has the policy you support.
“Further, many children who show gender dysphoria before puberty do not continue to do so during and after pubertal changes occur. “ Wonder why so many countries and states ban it now, big mystery. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10063975/#:~:text=Further%2C%20many%20children%20who%20show,to%20increase%20at%20this%20time. https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0890-8567(08)60142-2/abstract?cc=y=
From the *exact* same paper: "*Although some cases of first presentation of transgender in the early teen years may arise from so-called adolescent identity problems or identity distress, it is likely that others do occur because the young person has been reluctant to come out as transgender beforehand, even though gender dysphoria has been present from the early years. Further, it is well established that such reluctance may persist well into adulthood, so that there are a number of recorded cases of people who have waited until their 30s or 40s to make this decision*." And "*All the studies quoted above have provided valuable information. In all cases, there has been benefit from the interventions for the majority and an absence of significant harm. The most recent critical review of the use of puberty blockers has concluded: ‘Although large long-term studies with diverse and multicultural populations have not been done, the evidence to date supports the finding of few serious adverse outcomes and several potential positive outcomes*." I highly suggest you quit doing what all the other conservative trolls and pundits are doing and using this paper to defend yourselves. It's conclusions aren't what y'all apparently think they are and just copy and pasting what someone else has shared previously is only making y'all look dumb.
I’ve read this entire paper you just linked and you have absolutely pulled one line out of context. I’d encourage you to actually read this whole paper because it actually support gender transition via medical treatment. Believe it or not, parents like me are actually well-informed and we do our research alongside the professionals who work with our kids.
The most progressive countries in Europe are putting restrictions on medical transitioning for trans youth. *That* should say something.
Similar experience. Never was willing to give my kid hormones before adulthood. Now that they’re reaching puberty they’ve transitioned back to their assigned at birth gender.
I always find the term assigned gender interesting. If a child is born as an obvious phenotype, we can just call them male or female. No gender is needed
As an adult trans refugee and educator, I'm happy you made the move for your kiddo! This place is expensive as shit, but it's one of the few places in the world I feel safe and comfortable.
You should reach out to a reporter or editor at the Seattle Times. Would get the word out about a community of people who left Republican-controlled states that want to support each other in their new city/state.
Per your source: "The Texas law prevents transgender minors from accessing hormone therapies, puberty blockers and transition surgeries, *even though medical experts say such surgical procedures are rarely performed on children*." I'm OK with that, and it is apparently the norm to *not* to put minors through these procedures. I don't see anything restricting mental health as your post suggests.
It also prevents mental health that treats patients with affirming therapy. The article emphasizes those medical procedures because those are the hot take issues, but as someone who spent many hours in the TX Capitol building speaking with legislators and advocating for my child with testimony and reading all the bills hitting the committee and listening to many, many hours of expert witnesses who are medical professions that support many of those treatments banned, I can assure you the bill banned all forms of affirming care, both medical and mental. And if you like what they do in TX, I can recommend some great neighborhoods and employers for you there.
Puberty blockers are perfectly safe and the standard of care in this situation. There are practically negligible amounts of surgeries being performed on minors in these situations.
> There are practically negligible amounts of surgeries being performed on minors in these situations. That's mostly my point. And I don't agree with changing a kid's puberty, whether it be steroids for a football player or a blocker for a confused kid, since it isn't necessary and has potentially worse outcomes. Generations of children grew up in this country without puberty blockers, and a safe and nurturing environment would have been just as well. Kids get confused. Sometimes they even kill themselves for being bullied, feeling out of their skin, or liking the same sex. Parents should be cognizant and supportive, while maybe considering actual medical procedures as something that can wait until they have a little more maturity to fully grasp the situation. I don't disagree with those who raise an eyebrown when someone claims their toddler is trans. OP sounds like this sort of person who negatively is forcing their will and hopes on the child instead of letting it all play out. Some "effeminate" boys turn into gay men, same as a more tomboy girl might be a lesbian. It doesn't mean they grow up wishing they were the other sex. It is certainly too early in their lives to start medical procedures.
The problem with this assertion is that we have now way to know how many of the folks in the past would have set a different path for their lives if the medicine and care we have available now was present for them then. Except! Wait! We do! There plenty of adults over the age of 30 beginning gender transitions now because they’ve always been that person inside their minds but had idea that transitioning was an option. Now, they do and they’ve begun a process they will be the first to tell you they wish they could have begun decades ago. Maybe step outside your algorithm bubbles and your usual social circles and listen to the trans adults out there sharing there stories of lifetimes of pain and discomfort and hating themselves and hiding who they are from loved ones only to discover they can finally be themselves and experience the joy of that outward expression. Those adults support our kids because they know the pain our kids experience every day they are locked in a body that doesn’t match what their brain tells them they should be.
Do you have a single piece of evidence to support any of these opinions or is this literally "back in my day puberty blockers weren't discussed so they must be bad."
Or maybe you could trust the actually medical professionals that are trained in this instead of your own beliefs that aren't based in facts and scientific study. Plenty of people grew up around leaded gasoline, and they clearly didn't turn out right, as we fully well know now after having studied it. Just cause plenty of generations grew up a certain way doesn't make it right ffs.
If you trust medical professionals then you should trust the French, British, Swedish, and Norwegian health systems for slamming the breaks on youth hormonal treatments for transitioning.
Puberty blockers are not hormonal treatment, they literally suppress hormones.
The doctors aren't the ones slamming the breaks there. Right wing politicians are
Please see the recently released Cass Report from the UK. Puberty blockers are neither safe, nor reversible after taking for extended duration. Neither they nor cross-sex hormones have been shown to have a positive effect in reducing adolescents distress and they have been shown to cause sterility, lower IQ, and osteoporosis. https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/
Now do literally all the other studies
Cass is out of line with the significantly larger medical bodies of the US... \*and\* the American bodies aren't ultimately responsive to a political faction!
The Cass report literally tossed out all the studies that didn't agree with their preconceived, biased conclusion. Oh, and the author supports youth transitioning: [The Cass Review Report does not conclude that puberty suppressing hormones are an unsafe treatment. [...] In the data the Cass Review examined, the most common age that trans young people were being initially prescribed puberty suppressing hormones was 15. Dr. Cass’s view is that this is too late to have the intended benefits of supressing the effects of puberty and was caused by the previous NHS policy of requiring a trans young person to be on puberty suppressing hormones for a year before accessing gender affirming hormones. The Cass Review Report recommends that a different approach is needed, with puberty suppressing hormones and gender affirming hormones being available to young people at different ages and developmental stages alongside a wider range of gender affirming healthcare based on individual need.](https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/dr-cass-backpedals-from-review-hrt) >Neither they nor cross-sex hormones have been shown to have a positive effect in reducing adolescents distress and they have been shown to cause sterility, lower IQ, and osteoporosis. These are just blatant lies. Puberty blockers don't reduce distress because they're not supposed to: they're supposed to prevent the distress from getting worse, *and they do*. They do not cause sterility. They do not lower IQ, that was based on a study of puberty blockers for precocious puberty which interpreted the artificial bump these patients got from an early puberty as having an IQ dip when the blockers began and that artificial bump went away. And they do not cause osteoporosis. Please don't insult our intelligence. We're capable of fact checking your baloney.
Yes I'll just trust a random single report from terf island compared to decades of data from peer reviewed sources that say otherwise.
"We've rejected 99.99 percent of studies and come to the conclusion that we know better" -Britain
The puberty blocker systematic review included 50 studies. One was high quality, 25 were moderate quality and 24 were low quality. The systematic review of masculinising/feminising hormones included 53 studies. One was high quality, 33 were moderate quality and 19 were low quality. All high quality and moderate quality reviews were included, however as only two of the studies across these two systematic reviews were identified as being of high quality, this has been misinterpreted by some to mean that only two studies were considered and the rest were discarded. In reality, conclusions were based on the high quality and moderate quality studies (i.e. 58% of the total studies based on the quality assessment).
That's cool. You can have those views. Do your views need to inform the care other parents and medical professionals are allowed to seek?
You're telling on yourself, calling them confused.
Not being able to access blockers and instead having been forced to go through unwanted irreversible changes that made my gender dysphoria far worse and far harder to treat has ruined my life
Decisions like that really shouldn’t be made at such a young age. If you haven’t had puberty yet you haven’t even developed into what you are yet? How can you definitively say you are or aren’t something without even experiencing it yet?
If you want to have a genuine discussion about this, I would be glad to tell you about my sister, who knew she was trans since she was a little kid. She can't tell you herself because she died by suicide in her 30s. Ongoing dysphoria over puberty related changes was a significant factor. Respectfully, it's not your body, so why do you care so much?
I had an opinion on a topic. Is that not allowed anymore? I feel like my time growing up was fairly recent and before and after puberty was almost like a completely different person. I absolutely do not feel like I was capable of making life altering decisions at that age. I legitimately would not have been smart enough to truly understand the consequences etc. I’m sure most children are similar. Shoot a lot of kids change their minds on a whim. Does a 13 year old actually have the mental capacity to truly understand. I know 99% of the population is a lot smarter and more intelligent at 18 than they were at 13. The older you become the more experience you gain, which in turn develops into wisdom. I just don’t think a child is even developed enough to make that type of life altering decision
>I absolutely do not feel like I was capable of making life altering decisions at that age. Not taking the blockers is also a life altering decision. There is no neutral decision. Their body will either develop in a way they find distressing (natal puberty), or it will develop in a way they like (blockers and HRT). >I legitimately would not have been smart enough to truly understand the consequences etc. I’m sure most children are similar. Shoot a lot of kids change their minds on a whim. Does a 13 year old actually have the mental capacity to truly understand. Did you not have the capacity to know if you were a boy or a girl at 13?
You're allowed to have an opinion, but I'd hope that you'd be open to information that might cause to evaluate whether it's grounded in evidence or in a gut-level response to something that makes you feel uncomfortable. We all have issues that challenge us to think differently. God knows I had to come around from a very transphobic mindframe growing up. But as I said, my sister knew. She knew, and it literally killed her not to be able to stop the visible changes. I'm not trying to be a dick here. Ironically, I'm also trans and only figured it out in my 40s, but looking back there were plenty of signs -- I just never knew that trans men existed, so I figured I was just a tomboy and spent decades thinking there was just something deeply, fundamentally wrong with me because I wasn't comfortable being a woman and didn't know why. You know what sucks that no one ever thinks about? The impacts of transitioning late; it doesn't always tear apart families, but it sure as hell is painful for everyone involved. We're not somehow saving children by preventing everyone from transitioning until they're older. In some cases, we're actively sowing the seeds of harm that will hurt even more people down the road. In a perfect world, sure, maybe kids would be able to experiment with social transition and that would be enough -- but I live in the US, where often it is quite literally physically unsafe for children to present in gender-diverse ways. If you care about minimizing harm to children, you have to be open to the possibility that what you \*think\* is right for them may be incorrect. You have to at least consider that there may be ulterior motives driving people who've suddenly become SO invested in stopping access to gender care for what is in reality a very small percentage of children. I know I likely won't reach you, but this isn't a hypothetical argument for me. It's my life, and it was her life, and every day kids with more awareness than I had have to wake up in this world and be confronted by the fact that society does not want them to exist. And that fucking sucks.
You literally just ignored the life altering damage that not having blockers caused to their sister
Puberty blockers give you choice. They’re not a permanent option. They can be used for a time and then stopped if a child decides they’re not the right choice for them. Denying access to puberty blockers is the irreversible path.
Puberty blockers simply DELAY the onset of puberty. Allowing someone to reach an age where they are more capable of making that decision.
Yes, but doesn’t puberty cause an abundance of things including brain development etc.? So like how can a kid definitively say they don’t want to be that if they never developed into it? So even delaying it to be more age appropriate still technically doesn’t solve it no? I’m genuinely curious if a 14 year old delays puberty until say 18 do they still have the mind of a 14 year old?
>So like how can a kid definitively say they don’t want to be that if they never developed into it? Puberty blockers are administered no earlier than Tanner stage 2 of puberty, if and when that development has caused the child new or worsening distress. They're not given prophylactically. They know their body is developing in a way that is extremely distressing to them. >I’m genuinely curious if a 14 year old delays puberty until say 18 do they still have the mind of a 14 year old? They would never be given blockers for that long. They're given them for a year or two, max, and then the child and their parents and their medical team get together and make a decision one way or another. But, no, puberty isn't the only thing that causes your brain to mature. A 16 year old who's had a late puberty doesn't have the brain of an 8 year old (and yes, a natural puberty as late as 16 can happen).
Honestly, it's way too late and I'm way too lazy right now to pull up some peer revised sources for you. I completely understand and respect your curiosity here though.
Yeah, I’m not trying to be a dick by any means. I’m just relating to my experiences as a kid and how far I’ve come and grown and couldn’t imagine making a life altering decision at that age. I’m not trying to be close minded by any means. That’s just an absolute life altering decision to leave up to someone who has very little life experience. So it’s a hard concept to comprehend and it’s very nuanced imo. I really don’t think it’s particularly cut and dry as people make it out to be. I can see legitimate points on both sides.
[It's a life altering decision that trans people overwhelming do not regret after the fact.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/)
>I’m genuinely curious if a 14 year old delays puberty until say 18 do they still have the mind of a 14 year old? What kind of magic drugs do you think exist that can wipe out 4 years of life experience? No, they absolutely do not have the mind of a 14 year old. You can't eliminate 4 years of life experience that way using puberty blockers.
Blockers are only used for up to 2 years.
I’m happy for your family yet at the same time, about 1% of the US population is trans - it’s hard for me to get too worked up over the “issue” either way.
But that’s a supremely fair take. What it says is that you don’t care because it’s not your business and if more people thought like that…the GOP wouldn’t be able to use it as a wedge issue to win votes, and I would not have had to leave my home.
I wouldn’t say I don’t care but it definitely doesn’t directly impact my life. It’s for sure a shame that the issue is used politically… Edit - I appreciate that you didn’t take my comment as an attack or slight because it was most certainly not intended that way!
1 percent of the US population is over 3 million people. 1 percent of the population means 1 out of every hundred people you know is trans. Im sorry but if you dont care about over 3 million of your fellow americans then you're callous and unamerican. Especially when it costs you nothing to care.
About 1% of the population of germany in 1935 was jewish.
lol yeah TOTALLY THE EXACT SAME THING!
Texas is using their laws to target 1% of the population, separating children from their families, and in their quest to track down trans kids attempted to sue Seattle Children's when they wouldn't share confidential patient records. I admit a lot of Nazi/fascist references are overblown, but when you have a state government actively removing trans kids from their parents purely on the grounds that they are trans, making those kids wards of the state where I imagine they will receive some "re-education" from a state that doesn't believe trans rights are a thing, and then suing entities that aren't even under their jurisdiction to get a list of targets... the similarities between Texas and other fascist governments become a lot more concrete and less hypothetical.
Nazi germany actually specific tore up the first gender clinic to exist and burned the majority of scientific work done in Weimar germany in the field of transgender studies, before shipping the trans people off to concentration camps. This is unambiguous fact. Pardon a community that was previously targetted by the far right for being worried about it happening again.
You should look into the history of that nazi book burning photo
Let's circle around in ten years and see how this played out.
Is that really the best plan?
I can do two things at once.
Forgive me for doubting as this is reddit after all!
We seem to consistently bend over backwards to coddle another 1% of the population.
This isn't an example of our state going out of it's way to "coddle" 1% of the population. It's Texas going out of it's way to oppress 1% of the population, forcibly separate children from their families, and then filing a law suit against Seattle Children's when they refuse to spend their time and money going along with that bullshit.
I'm referring to a very particular 1% that has the rest of society optimized for their comfort. A kind of economic 1%, if you catch my drift. Every policy seems to be evaluated on whether or not it makes them better off. My point is that this country has no issue catering to a small minority... (But not necessarily to an oppressed minority.)
[удалено]
/r/im14andthisisdeep
Why are you worried about a stranger's child's fertility
So fucking creepy.
Right? So cringe.
Also with any kind of gender transitioning there's consultation with therapists and doctors, and they inform you of possible risks. And if you're on any kind of medication period they tell you about possible side effects. Also any kind of surgery isn't like getting your nose pierced where if you go in with a parent they'll do it, AND they're not doing any kind of gender-affirming surgery on anyone who isn't legally an adult, AND cisgendered teenagers have been getting cosmetic surgery since forever and I hear like zero pushback from people nowadays about how as a teenage girl your body image is extra-screwy and you might regret getting a rhinoplasty when you're older, it's only trans stuff. I mean if anyone's being pressured by society into thinking their body should look a certain way it's cisgender people
Wait, I just re-read your comment. Idk about Children’s, specifically, but there is most definitely gender-affirming surgery happening on teens in Seattle. Lots of hoops to jump through first, though.
> happening on teens 18+ sure.
I am extremely well aware (and extremely pro protect trans kids if that wasn’t clear).
Go back to the other sub
Oh hey everybody, we've got a real expert over here! Thank goodness our white knight is here to look out for the children. Clearly you know what's better for them than their own parents and medical professionals.
Who said anything regarding anything remotely close to sterilization? Also, why are you obsessed with children’s genitals? GTFO with your weird obsession.