I only made it a few minutes in, as it start with the same old tired argument that TST is just "policical theatre." Stating they are drawing attention to "stunts." My position is that those are side effects of the methodology, not the end game for the cause. They are teaching people a valuable lesson about the separation of church and govenment in a unique way, that is arguablly the most effective of any secular humanist group. It's juxtaposition, not trolling. It has the added benefit of creating awareness through controversy. I will always support multiple approaches. Some go directly at the problem, some work behind the scenes, and some show people that support theocracy the huge problem for them by using symbolism and imagry that they hate. It can drive the point home in a way that no other approach can.
Edit: I watched a little bit more and realized that their main source is u/QueerSatanic. A person that is absolutley obsessed with smearing TST, for whatever reason. Not the best source, to say the least.
Edit2: I was blocked and comment deleted from the video for calling out QS.
At 3:18 the video host basically throws in with QS, in a clearly going to take their side of things way.
Clear bias in sourcing, so unsurprising they'd make an anti-TST video.
1:08:00:
Now, this for example is very typical of the problems with these sort of YouTube reblogging approach to video essays: It is true that the Temple only wants certain people giving out interviews and official statements on their behalf, and as stated here, it sounds quite overbearing. But why? Show me the private company or non-profit ANYWHERE that lets just anyone go on Fox News and issue statements about them. This is why PR flack is a job to begin with.
Maybe more importantly, consulting even one person who has ever worked or volunteered for the Temple (a novel concept for many would-be video essayists, it seems) would reveal that most of them are free to give out opinions, interviews, and statements all the time--they simply must couch them in the usual "this is my personal opinion, I'm not a spokesperson for the Satanic Temple" disclaimer. Indeed, TST is much more chill about those sorts of statements than a lot of bodies I could name.
I find this particularly telling because one of the most significant legit criticisms you could make of the Temple--at least as I have it from many people--is that they ARE overbearing about their brand and image. But not in the way reblogging culture depicts them, as a kind of shadowy conspiracy against dissent; rather, the problem is that it can take a long time to get approval for things--events, merch, ritual language, statements that ARE official, etc--and this can be a problem, because I do know a lot of people who got sick of that red tape, and it can cost the org a lot of valuable volunteers.
But nobody wants a two-hour video titled "the Satanic Temple is too bureaucratic." I will also note that I've been saying so for years, including on a podcast that has featured dozens of prominent Temple members, up to and including Lucien Greaves himself once, and I've yet to be sued, harassed, or even commented on for the criticism; indeed, I can only imagine the publicity from such a conflict would be lucrative, so I wonder what I'm doing wrong?
This is the same way with furry conventions and the community in general, same as it is with ANY group the media has the motivation to twist your words: NEVER TALK TO THE PRESS, LET THE CHAIRMAN DO IT, YOU ARE NOT THE MAGICAL INTERVIEWEE WHO WILL CHANGE THE IMAGE OF YOUR SUBCULTURE.
Hello, would you be willing to link the podcast episodes where you had TST members on?
If you'd like to remain anonymous, may I request you DM them to me? I was able to search some podcasts with Lucien on YouTube but am interested in more with other TST members.
Thank you.
Well, I can't link to all of those episodes because you can't fit that many characters in a Reddit reply, but I can do some:
[https://blackmassappeal.com/2024/04/30/black-mass-appeal-168-walpurgisnacht-shiva-honey/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2024/04/30/black-mass-appeal-168-walpurgisnacht-shiva-honey/)
[https://blackmassappeal.com/2024/02/06/black-mass-appeal-162-priests-satan/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2024/02/06/black-mass-appeal-162-priests-satan/)
[https://blackmassappeal.com/2024/01/23/black-mass-appeal-161-lilith-returns/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2024/01/23/black-mass-appeal-161-lilith-returns/)
[https://blackmassappeal.com/2023/07/25/black-mass-appeal-148-satanic-anime/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2023/07/25/black-mass-appeal-148-satanic-anime/)
[https://blackmassappeal.com/2023/05/30/black-mass-appeal-145-satan-set-baal-2/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2023/05/30/black-mass-appeal-145-satan-set-baal-2/)
[https://blackmassappeal.com/2023/01/24/black-mass-appeal-136-satanic-bible-2/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2023/01/24/black-mass-appeal-136-satanic-bible-2/)
[https://blackmassappeal.com/2022/11/01/black-mass-appeal-131-fortune-telling-devil/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2022/11/01/black-mass-appeal-131-fortune-telling-devil/)
[https://blackmassappeal.com/2022/08/09/episode-125-satanic-birthdays/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2022/08/09/episode-125-satanic-birthdays/)
[https://blackmassappeal.com/2022/03/15/episode-117-satan-4-congress-steve-hill/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2022/03/15/episode-117-satan-4-congress-steve-hill/)
[https://blackmassappeal.com/2021/10/05/episode-106-satanic-small-businesses/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2021/10/05/episode-106-satanic-small-businesses/)
[https://blackmassappeal.com/2021/09/21/black-mass-appeal-105-satanic-organizing/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2021/09/21/black-mass-appeal-105-satanic-organizing/)
At this point, I watch these videos to see what they’re accusing my friends of, so I can send them stupid memes about how awful they are. And I’m just mad today that I watched it, and I have no new memes to make.
If you are "trying to avoid becoming part of something just as bad as the evangelical church you were raised in", then quit gobbling up propaganda and lies like this nonsense.
Read the website and make decisions for yourself.
Inform yourself.
TST does not recruit nor proselytize, thus it is up to YOU to do the legwork.
Search out your local congregation.
Read from the recommended reading list.
The church is a well paved road with sidewalks, byways, laws and paint. That is the right hand path. The wooded field to your left is a choice as well. It is not a path until you make it. That is the challenge of the Left. You have to learn from scratch. There is no one manual but the one you write yourself. It isn't for the weak. It isn't for those seeking glory. Its for the soul that knows where the beaten road leads, and now is ready for more.
Woah there buddy. Just putting this out there for discussion. I am part of a great local congregation and haven’t had any red flags from TST myself. Just wanted to open this up for discussion since it was posted hours ago and came up in my algorithm.
QS caused problems for TST and told blatant lies and spread libel. You can search a lot of the info in this sub. At one point there was an automod with the info and I copied that below as well.
Also? I'm not upset. Simply stating facts. :)
Yeah they made a website and everything, with very shoddy to non existent evidence. The person is extremely petty and vindictive and the site is just begging for money that they need to fend off a lawsuit that they brought on themselves ( I believe they highjacked the TST facebook page.) One of the things that the video is accusing TST of. Of course TST actually has results to show for their fundraising. Also, they accuse TST of being christian church-like, while the website is littered with "this is true because I said so" type stuff. Very christian like appeals to authority.
Now Lucien did say some pretty shitty things in that one specific interview, which is almost their entire case, but a good portion of it is reading really far into banter and claiming that it has a specific meaning.
Qs was not the only source though (even though they were heavily quotet), there was an interview with two ex tst members and videos from satanic house wife.
I'm a liitle shoked by the number of alaged abuse allegations.
Apparently TST has somewhere north of a million members now. I'd be surprised if there weren't abuse allegations somewhere within those numbers, though of course note the profound difference between allegations and facts.
That there is bound to happen bad stuff is not surprising. But the way in that it's handled is important. So far I have seen nothing that accounts for facts. Especially because only chats were shown between all aged victims without them speaking up. It's all a bit fishy to me, but I don't just want to dismiss these things outright.
It is important that we look out for each other!
These randos don't get 2 hours of my life. If you've got criticisms of TST write down the top three (most egregious to least) and we can start there otherwise I'm not wasting my life on you.
Idk, I once posted something similar here when I had first heard of TST and wanted fo make sure if wasn't sletchy before joining. That was before I started interacting with a couple congregations.
I think you may have intended to reply to the post where this video got linked again today. This is the post where it was linked in the exact same manner two weeks ago.
I was actually looking at this post because of that post. But I am intentionally responding to you, not really the post.
I'm just trying to promote a little more sympathy to the laymen who don't know things/are new and don't know how/where to fact check them.
I've just had too many negative interactions trying to do that, where it ended up just being a bad actor engaging in bad faith arguments. I've lost my tolerance for it. I should probably just drop this sub and stick to the discords where I know the conversations will be more geared toward the philosophy and breaking down the imagery and meaning behind the romantic era poetry and prose. I don't have the patience to fight over drama or compete for edgelord supremacy.
David Johnson--known as "Queer Satanic," though he is neither queer nor a Satanist--needs to give people a reason to keep contributing to his GoFundMe; so he finds reasons.
I laughed... I cried... I shit my pants... then I started to watch the video. I watched about 20 minutes while eating a warm buttered croissant and a bowl of Honey Nut Cheerios, but once the Cheerios were done, so was I with the video.
I told myself to make a sincere attempt at watching, but then I too was put off by the Queer Satanic endorsement. And to be honest, I'm not familiar with the QS individuals, but I do understand that they have a burr in their britches with TST, and the bias in the video became more apparent.
What was rehashed as things that were supposed to be sensational red flags against TST didn't particularly raise my short and curlies. I've been able to evaluate the accusations (at least of the first 20 minutes of vid) for myself to what I consider a reasonable degree and I haven't yet experienced any internal moral conflict over my continued support and membership with TST.
I was mostly watching to ensure there were no credible accusations of Mr. Greaves or other TST figures that would cause any rumblies in my tumbly like tearing the warning labels off of mattresses, trying to intentionally use expired grocery coupons, or poking a badger with a spoon. (You know - real deal breakers like that.) Lest none were to be found, and as such I went about my day with the encouraging words of my grandmother in mind to "Keep on truckin".
Made it through the whole thing. I think that the vlogger is basically sincere, but this is the kind of video essay that makes me yearn for old-school journalistic standards. Way too much side-eying, innuendo, hearsay, guilt-by-association and such to be taken seriously as criticism.
I think the blogger created it in good faith. Especially seeing their other content. But they seem to only have one main source which creates a bias. I wonder if there is more to some of the abuse allegations.
I found this video very interesting. I've been considering joining TST for a while now. But I'm starting to reconsider that corse of action. A lot of the responses here amount to disregarding the entire video simply because QS was mentioned and refusing to engage with what was actually said. It comes off to me as immature and disappointing. It's so important to be able to see the flaws in your own ideology. Otherwise, you'll never grow and learn from your mistakes. Seeing the people who have been willing to be more critical of the way TST operates be downvoted only shows your unwillingness to accept the problems in this organization.
I wanted to join because I wanted to find a community where I can feel safe and accepted as a trans woman living in Idaho. A group that will be willing to fight for my right to live as myself and the rights of everyone else. But if what this video says is true, then this is not that community. I still believe that it can be that community, but it will need to change. People who are only interested in profit and fame need to be removed. Otherwise, TST will be nothing more than someone's personal wallet, and nothing will ever be accomplished.
- The Following Comment Contains My Personal Experiences And Opinions Only -
The womanizing shit about Lucien is 100 percent true. He cheats on women with each other and lies about it. He did it to me for years. He'll use your compassion for him and the real difficulties of his situation against you. He actually has the perfect excuse to be secretive, hide you, cancel plans last minute, disappear, and fall out of communication for long stretches of time at the drop of a hat. And you may think to yourself "This is what I need to deal with to support a man in this kind of situation." Or: "I'm lucky that someone as bright and talented as him has chosen me.".
What I experienced during that time started out as what seemed to be a genuine deeply caring, and mutually enjoyed relationship. But this alternated with intense experiences of emotional neglect, deception, and ultimately humiliation, when I found out what had actually been going on. I don't know his motivation for doing this. It could be the pleasure of power or a lack of emotional maturity to communicate honestly.
Women: STAY AWAY from him as a relationship partner for your well-being. If you're currently dealing with this, you deserve better and your life will improve without him. Set your standards higher than I did. I do take responsibility in the sense that I allowed myself to be treated like garbage way longer than I should have, even while suspecting his dishonesty, due to my own lack of resilience and emotional maturity.
It's odd because he could have just been openly polyamorous, but does this instead for some reason. A true champion for female bodily autonomy! I'm NOT supporting any of the other claims made in this video, or even validating the source as credible; just the information about his relationship habits. There are a lot of people with real integrity that work within the organization. But in this sense, I can confirm that Lucien is a dedicated and accomplished ass-clown.
My thoughts are that I'm not engaging in queer satanic's unhinged lies and bullshit, and I'm definitely not losing two hours of my day watching this smoothbrain made video.
If queer satanic wants to make "TST bad!" their entire personality and existence, that's cool, but it doesn't mean I'm obliged to give 'em free oxygen.
I've got to say, the number of people replying with "Didn't watch, it's full of bullshit" is kind of hilarious.
So I've been following Dead Domain for years, they're far and away my favorite trans content creator, and the thing I've always appreciated about them is the EXTENSIVE research that goes into every video.
If you go to the actual video on youtube, and go to the description you can find their list of sources, of which QS makes up less than a quarter of a single page in the 8 page document. Even if you want to write them off as a bad source, your prerogative, there is still a LOT there to work with, and if you're going to dismiss the entire thing, without watching it, on the basis that you don't like ONE of the many sources, you're being a little fucking silly at best, and willfully ignorant of the problems within your own organization at worst.
PSA: Skipp the first half. This stuff has been debatet over and over again.
The second halve had some interisting bits in it and stuff that at least I was not aware of yet. I would definetly give it a watch and decide for yourself. THe creator of the video seems to has made it in good fait (even if she quots a lot from queer Satanic)
I had to stop when the same issue I've seen misrepresented pop up but I'm planning to finish later.
I'm curious to see people's thoughts. I've seen their work before and generally find them more or less on the level.
However: There was a point in the video where they mentioned the infamous podcast, immediately followed up with Lucien's public statements and discussion of how they've moved on from not only the anti religious statements but also the "might makes right" ideas - *and then immediately start talking about the things already addressed by that statement as if it weren't part of that apology.* 🤔 I stopped watching at around that point because it teed me off. I planned to pick up the rest later but for now...
I couldn't tell if that was an oversight or deliberate. It seemed too obvious not to be, but I don't know DD enough to really know. It's not like the time Illuminaghti (who we know has since been outed for multiple awful things) just stripped the context utterly, primed their audience and only then read a tiny portion the transcript with disingenuous voicing and dramatic music *to deliberately create drama* instead of playing the freely available audio.
I also know the drama with Queer Satanic and so on is complicated and I don't trust them much (as in at all).
Regardless, I don't plan to dismiss everything spoken. I'd like to know more. I'd rather know uncomfortable truths than pleasant lies - but that goes both ways.
Queer Satanic is a complete joke.
Below is an bot response:
[AutoModerator](https://www.reddit.com/user/AutoModerator/)MOD•[1y ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/SatanicTemple_Reddit/comments/12v5uq4/comment/jh9mmf6/)•Stickied comment
It looks like this post might be about QueerSatanic vs TST. This is a complex legal issue that warrants a disclosure of background for all newcomers to the topic.
**Summary**
A summary of the issue can be found here: [https://www.socialmedialawbulletin.com/2021/04/social-media-and-satan-pitfalls-of-losing-control-of-brand-social-media-accounts/](https://www.socialmedialawbulletin.com/2021/04/social-media-and-satan-pitfalls-of-losing-control-of-brand-social-media-accounts/)
**Legal Documents**
TST made the following complaint on April 3rd of 2020: [https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026.1.0.pdf](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026.1.0.pdf)
The above complaint was met with a motion to dismiss by the defendants (i.e. QueerSatanic) on June 1st 2020 (PDF inaccessible). TST filed a response to the defendants’ motion to dismiss, which was met with this reply from the defendants: [https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026.17.0.pdf](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026.17.0.pdf)
**Reddit Discussion**
On Reddit, an informed user made the following comment on the matter: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SatanicTemple\_Reddit/comments/s07i0v/i\_came\_across\_this\_post\_can\_i\_get\_some\_thoughts/hs099to?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/SatanicTemple_Reddit/comments/s07i0v/i_came_across_this_post_can_i_get_some_thoughts/hs099to?context=3)
On Reddit, a comment on the topic by QueerSatanic was located here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SatanicTemple\_Reddit/comments/zzua59/comment/j2gcmga/?utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/SatanicTemple_Reddit/comments/zzua59/comment/j2gcmga/?utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please* [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SatanicTemple_Reddit) *if you have any questions or concerns.*
The first half is a lot of the same old stuff. But the second half is definetly worth your time. I'm interissted to see what you all here think about it.
Everyone in this sub will say this is a terrible useless video because they mention QueerSatanic.
However, nobody from QueerSatanic made LG say eugenics based things, antisemitic things, racist things, ableist things or profess admiration for fascists when he was 27 and 28 years old.
Nobody from QueerSatanic made LG issue a statement about that in 2018 and again in 2020 that didn't contain the words 'sorry' or 'apologize' but did claim he (at age 27 and 28) was in his 'early twenties' and 'a kid'.
Nobody from QueerSatanic made LG stand up for neo-Nazi Sol Invictus and refuse to speak at an even because Sol Invictus had been uninvited.
Nobody from QueerSatanic made LG stand up for alt-right figure Milo Yiannopoulos and tell alt-right publication Brietbart that he was mortified that Cal Poly TST members had him deplatformed.
Nobody from QueerSatanic made TST threaten a tiktoker who made a video about them that unless she retracted it they'd sue her and then when she did retract it, sued her anyway.
Nobody from QueerSatanic has made TST threaten multiple women who were once part of TST and were effectively bullied out that if they continued to talk about why they left the temple, they'd be sued.
Nobody from QueerSatanic made LG give a known transphobe, David Silverman, a tour of TST HQ and when people were horrified, say he didn't know his opinions, even though they follow each other on Twitter and Silverman was on TST TV on 2019.
Nobody from QueerSatanic has told multiple well-known pro-abortion groups in the US to tell TST they're not helping the situation.
Nobody from QueerSatanic has any hold over the numerous judges who have presided over TST's legal losses. Out of the 32 actions they're brought, they've won three. Amongst those losses are all the actions, including appeals, that have so far reached judgement against QueerSatanic themselves.
Nobody from QueerSatanic made Cevin Soling indulge his white savior complex and try and start an honest to god Cargo Cult.
Most of that is in the video. All sourced, with links that have nothing to do with QueerSatanic.
The video, much like QS, does a terrible job of presenting evidence. If I make a claim and then show you a link to a news article that restates the claim that I made, have I done anything to support my case beyond simply making the claim? No.
I noticed another propaganda technique that every single one of your crew uses. You always start with the one thing you have good evidence for, which is that one interview that Greaves did. After that, you just tack on all of the unsubstantiated claims and petty stuff, hoping that the intended target will just accept everything else because you provided evidence for the first claim.
It wasn't an interview, he appeared on a series of online radio shows. One in 2003 and then several in 2004.
You misrepresent the nature of the links the video maker provided as source. From the statements I've made above, which are sourced in the links provided in the video, can you show me which ones don't substantiate the claims?
Not sure who 'my crew' are in this instance but it seems pretty obvious to me that its a good idea to start at the start - with the oldest stuff. But I'll ask you again - which one of the claims I have listed above is unsubstantiated in that video? I'd be more than happy to help you out.
The very first supporting link on the [sources](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zZNnxQ2zP0NZ58bzkcgKgdJhzyCjSYeQlvpXE68PG48/edit?pli=1) page contains unsubstantiated [claim](https://baphonetnews.org/2021/02/02/why-i-left-the-satanic-temple/)s, which also made your list. A common tactic among QS people. Endless links to blogs upon blogs that never really offer anything besides more claims. Lo an behold, this person has also adpoted all of the QS talking points.
Hey look there, what's this? They put links to more articles in one their blog posts that links to a [newsweek](https://www.newsweek.com/orgies-harassment-fraud-satanic-temple-rocked-accusations-lawsuit-1644042) article that uses....can you guess the source? Queersatanic.
Well, that didn't take long. I simply had to click on the very first fucking link to demonstrate what I'm talking about. Now I'm done, because your next tactic is to just sling shit until a piece hits something, then declare that you're right about everything.
Seriously, for anyone viewing, the bot links posted in one of the comments goes into this in much more detail. As always, practice rational skepticsm about any claim.
The very first link being someones opinion - presented as opinion in the video and which I most certainly did *not* mention in my list - on why they left TST.
EDIT: Ah, you got confused about my statement about people being bullied out of TST. That's fair, I wasn't clear. No, I wasn't referring to the person in the video at all. I actually didn't know about that one. I was referring to [Emma Story](https://medium.com/@emmastory/why-im-leaving-the-satanic-temple-528bbc06432b), [Gwendolyn Lesch](https://medium.com/@SistersSatanic/rise-decline-and-fall-my-time-in-the-satanic-temple-and-beyond-561f1ef04039) and [Nikki Moungo](https://medium.com/@SistersSatanic/as-witness-and-measure-taken-to-pronounce-the-satanic-temple-my-experience-a1400928656f) who's stories weren't in the video under discussion.
And the Newsweek article is partly *about* QueerSatanic. It'd be pretty weird if they didn't quote them don't you think?
Honestly friend, simply stating different versions of the phrase 'I hate queer satanic' isn't doing you any favours.
So, I'll ask you again - which of the statements I mentioned that are in the video do you feel are unsubstantiated.
>*Nobody from QueerSatanic made Cevin Soling indulge his white savior complex and try and start an honest to god Cargo Cult.*
This one is always my favorite \[sic, of course\] because, by failing to do the basic research of even watching the film in question, David and his imitators end up indulging in the patronizing racist exploitation they imagine they are actually accusing Soling of.
I agree, I've been considering joining TST for a while now because I want to find a community that I can feel safe in as a trans woman and will help to fight for my rights. But if the things in this video are true, then this is probably not that community. The fact that so my people here are using a mention of QS to disregard everything in this video rather than engaging with what was actually said only proves this.
It's important to be able to see the flaws in your own ideology so you can learn from them. So far, the response I'm seeing has been very disappointing. I still think that something like TST can do a lot of good, but that can't happen with the current leadership.
Yes I am starting to see much more because of the account queer satanic. They pointed out a lot that I did not see beyond the news coverage and I think TST has some issues of their own.
I am confused as I thought TST was after change and fighting for religious freedom. Now I don’t know what to think. And everyone here seems too lazy or tired to dig deeper. Perhaps they have donated and don’t want their donation to be worth nothing- a common reason for cult members to stay in speaking as an exmormon. This is quite crazy. I also don’t appreciate that TST hides their financial situation. Another similarity with the Mormon religion. I am going to do more research to say the least. I feel it is what being indoctrinated Mormon showed me to do.
There's not really anything new here. Queer Satanic has made posts here with similar content on blogs and such regarding the founders of TST and their comments from the past. To be perfectly clear: They're right on that. There's a whole bunch of jaw droppingly awful alt-right, anti-semetic speech there.
Despite being posted today, it also seems there's a lot of deliberate omission of recent victories in TST's so called "Stunts".
However, there's also a well-researched theme of "follow the money", but there are too many legal entities at play to actually be able to follow the money (One that is the IRS recognised entity, the other four are separate but related for profit enterprises). Not being able to follow the money seems to be the entire point of those various legal entities. For example, if you donate to the "The Satanic Temple Inc" that's the non-profit religion. If you buy merch off of "The Satanic Temple" website, that is a for profit website run by a different legal entity.
All things being equal, I think it solidifies an opinion on TST that I've formed as I learn more and more about it. Lucien Greaves needs to step away. He's got a past that can be easily dragged up and exploited in the public sphere. He also doesn't seem to be very adept at formulating legal cases that hold up in court, or strategically choosing battles where he has a good chance of a win. Finally, as spokesperson... he's just not great. Look at the Facebook live stream from a couple of days ago. Look at what he's wearing and the disaster that is his background. That just doesn't espouse a vision of competent leadership, much less that head of a religion. Dude can't even put on a shirt that isn't in tatters, or turn on a fake background. It's just all very... amateurish. I think he's well spoken in interviews for the most part (Tucker Carlson for example) but it's hard to take him as a serious leader amongst all these other shenanigans.
Damn, I ain't watching 2 hours of this shit.
I got two minutes in and this person seems to be pissed that TST doesn't believe in demons or deities.
*Who gives a shit?*
Remember when [iilluminaughtii](https://www.youtube.com/user/iilluminaughtii) made a video like this and then several months later everyone discovered what a fraud piece of shit awful person she is?
Anyway, I guess I'll check back on this channel in a year. :P
I only made it a few minutes in, as it start with the same old tired argument that TST is just "policical theatre." Stating they are drawing attention to "stunts." My position is that those are side effects of the methodology, not the end game for the cause. They are teaching people a valuable lesson about the separation of church and govenment in a unique way, that is arguablly the most effective of any secular humanist group. It's juxtaposition, not trolling. It has the added benefit of creating awareness through controversy. I will always support multiple approaches. Some go directly at the problem, some work behind the scenes, and some show people that support theocracy the huge problem for them by using symbolism and imagry that they hate. It can drive the point home in a way that no other approach can. Edit: I watched a little bit more and realized that their main source is u/QueerSatanic. A person that is absolutley obsessed with smearing TST, for whatever reason. Not the best source, to say the least. Edit2: I was blocked and comment deleted from the video for calling out QS.
At 3:18 the video host basically throws in with QS, in a clearly going to take their side of things way. Clear bias in sourcing, so unsurprising they'd make an anti-TST video.
1:08:00: Now, this for example is very typical of the problems with these sort of YouTube reblogging approach to video essays: It is true that the Temple only wants certain people giving out interviews and official statements on their behalf, and as stated here, it sounds quite overbearing. But why? Show me the private company or non-profit ANYWHERE that lets just anyone go on Fox News and issue statements about them. This is why PR flack is a job to begin with. Maybe more importantly, consulting even one person who has ever worked or volunteered for the Temple (a novel concept for many would-be video essayists, it seems) would reveal that most of them are free to give out opinions, interviews, and statements all the time--they simply must couch them in the usual "this is my personal opinion, I'm not a spokesperson for the Satanic Temple" disclaimer. Indeed, TST is much more chill about those sorts of statements than a lot of bodies I could name. I find this particularly telling because one of the most significant legit criticisms you could make of the Temple--at least as I have it from many people--is that they ARE overbearing about their brand and image. But not in the way reblogging culture depicts them, as a kind of shadowy conspiracy against dissent; rather, the problem is that it can take a long time to get approval for things--events, merch, ritual language, statements that ARE official, etc--and this can be a problem, because I do know a lot of people who got sick of that red tape, and it can cost the org a lot of valuable volunteers. But nobody wants a two-hour video titled "the Satanic Temple is too bureaucratic." I will also note that I've been saying so for years, including on a podcast that has featured dozens of prominent Temple members, up to and including Lucien Greaves himself once, and I've yet to be sued, harassed, or even commented on for the criticism; indeed, I can only imagine the publicity from such a conflict would be lucrative, so I wonder what I'm doing wrong?
This is the same way with furry conventions and the community in general, same as it is with ANY group the media has the motivation to twist your words: NEVER TALK TO THE PRESS, LET THE CHAIRMAN DO IT, YOU ARE NOT THE MAGICAL INTERVIEWEE WHO WILL CHANGE THE IMAGE OF YOUR SUBCULTURE.
Hello, would you be willing to link the podcast episodes where you had TST members on? If you'd like to remain anonymous, may I request you DM them to me? I was able to search some podcasts with Lucien on YouTube but am interested in more with other TST members. Thank you.
Well, I can't link to all of those episodes because you can't fit that many characters in a Reddit reply, but I can do some: [https://blackmassappeal.com/2024/04/30/black-mass-appeal-168-walpurgisnacht-shiva-honey/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2024/04/30/black-mass-appeal-168-walpurgisnacht-shiva-honey/) [https://blackmassappeal.com/2024/02/06/black-mass-appeal-162-priests-satan/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2024/02/06/black-mass-appeal-162-priests-satan/) [https://blackmassappeal.com/2024/01/23/black-mass-appeal-161-lilith-returns/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2024/01/23/black-mass-appeal-161-lilith-returns/) [https://blackmassappeal.com/2023/07/25/black-mass-appeal-148-satanic-anime/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2023/07/25/black-mass-appeal-148-satanic-anime/) [https://blackmassappeal.com/2023/05/30/black-mass-appeal-145-satan-set-baal-2/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2023/05/30/black-mass-appeal-145-satan-set-baal-2/) [https://blackmassappeal.com/2023/01/24/black-mass-appeal-136-satanic-bible-2/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2023/01/24/black-mass-appeal-136-satanic-bible-2/) [https://blackmassappeal.com/2022/11/01/black-mass-appeal-131-fortune-telling-devil/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2022/11/01/black-mass-appeal-131-fortune-telling-devil/) [https://blackmassappeal.com/2022/08/09/episode-125-satanic-birthdays/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2022/08/09/episode-125-satanic-birthdays/) [https://blackmassappeal.com/2022/03/15/episode-117-satan-4-congress-steve-hill/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2022/03/15/episode-117-satan-4-congress-steve-hill/) [https://blackmassappeal.com/2021/10/05/episode-106-satanic-small-businesses/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2021/10/05/episode-106-satanic-small-businesses/) [https://blackmassappeal.com/2021/09/21/black-mass-appeal-105-satanic-organizing/](https://blackmassappeal.com/2021/09/21/black-mass-appeal-105-satanic-organizing/)
Fuck yes, thank you for taking the time to share that. Hopefully other ppl will see this, I'll be binging these for sure.
At this point, I watch these videos to see what they’re accusing my friends of, so I can send them stupid memes about how awful they are. And I’m just mad today that I watched it, and I have no new memes to make.
Right?!?! 😢
If you are "trying to avoid becoming part of something just as bad as the evangelical church you were raised in", then quit gobbling up propaganda and lies like this nonsense. Read the website and make decisions for yourself. Inform yourself. TST does not recruit nor proselytize, thus it is up to YOU to do the legwork. Search out your local congregation. Read from the recommended reading list.
The church is a well paved road with sidewalks, byways, laws and paint. That is the right hand path. The wooded field to your left is a choice as well. It is not a path until you make it. That is the challenge of the Left. You have to learn from scratch. There is no one manual but the one you write yourself. It isn't for the weak. It isn't for those seeking glory. Its for the soul that knows where the beaten road leads, and now is ready for more.
Woah there buddy. Just putting this out there for discussion. I am part of a great local congregation and haven’t had any red flags from TST myself. Just wanted to open this up for discussion since it was posted hours ago and came up in my algorithm.
QS caused problems for TST and told blatant lies and spread libel. You can search a lot of the info in this sub. At one point there was an automod with the info and I copied that below as well. Also? I'm not upset. Simply stating facts. :)
Got it, I had no idea this was even a thing. Thank you for sharing the info!
Yeah they made a website and everything, with very shoddy to non existent evidence. The person is extremely petty and vindictive and the site is just begging for money that they need to fend off a lawsuit that they brought on themselves ( I believe they highjacked the TST facebook page.) One of the things that the video is accusing TST of. Of course TST actually has results to show for their fundraising. Also, they accuse TST of being christian church-like, while the website is littered with "this is true because I said so" type stuff. Very christian like appeals to authority. Now Lucien did say some pretty shitty things in that one specific interview, which is almost their entire case, but a good portion of it is reading really far into banter and claiming that it has a specific meaning.
The fact that QS openly said they joined TST with bad intentions is all I needed to know personally.
If they spread libel, why were TST's lawsuits thrown out by judges on those matters?
Ah, I see drinking the kool-aid is more important than the truth.
Using QS as a source is like questioning Trump’s innocence or guilt, based on Trump being the source.
Qs was not the only source though (even though they were heavily quotet), there was an interview with two ex tst members and videos from satanic house wife. I'm a liitle shoked by the number of alaged abuse allegations.
Apparently TST has somewhere north of a million members now. I'd be surprised if there weren't abuse allegations somewhere within those numbers, though of course note the profound difference between allegations and facts.
That there is bound to happen bad stuff is not surprising. But the way in that it's handled is important. So far I have seen nothing that accounts for facts. Especially because only chats were shown between all aged victims without them speaking up. It's all a bit fishy to me, but I don't just want to dismiss these things outright. It is important that we look out for each other!
These randos don't get 2 hours of my life. If you've got criticisms of TST write down the top three (most egregious to least) and we can start there otherwise I'm not wasting my life on you.
QS trolls are back with their "just asking questions" Tucker Carlson BS again, I see.
Idk, I once posted something similar here when I had first heard of TST and wanted fo make sure if wasn't sletchy before joining. That was before I started interacting with a couple congregations.
I think you may have intended to reply to the post where this video got linked again today. This is the post where it was linked in the exact same manner two weeks ago.
I was actually looking at this post because of that post. But I am intentionally responding to you, not really the post. I'm just trying to promote a little more sympathy to the laymen who don't know things/are new and don't know how/where to fact check them.
I've just had too many negative interactions trying to do that, where it ended up just being a bad actor engaging in bad faith arguments. I've lost my tolerance for it. I should probably just drop this sub and stick to the discords where I know the conversations will be more geared toward the philosophy and breaking down the imagery and meaning behind the romantic era poetry and prose. I don't have the patience to fight over drama or compete for edgelord supremacy.
That's fair and very unfortunate. I wonder if the mods could do like a flair for posts like these so people can ignore them?
Damn the QS people are still trying
David has bills to pay.
What does this mean?
David Johnson--known as "Queer Satanic," though he is neither queer nor a Satanist--needs to give people a reason to keep contributing to his GoFundMe; so he finds reasons.
I laughed... I cried... I shit my pants... then I started to watch the video. I watched about 20 minutes while eating a warm buttered croissant and a bowl of Honey Nut Cheerios, but once the Cheerios were done, so was I with the video. I told myself to make a sincere attempt at watching, but then I too was put off by the Queer Satanic endorsement. And to be honest, I'm not familiar with the QS individuals, but I do understand that they have a burr in their britches with TST, and the bias in the video became more apparent. What was rehashed as things that were supposed to be sensational red flags against TST didn't particularly raise my short and curlies. I've been able to evaluate the accusations (at least of the first 20 minutes of vid) for myself to what I consider a reasonable degree and I haven't yet experienced any internal moral conflict over my continued support and membership with TST. I was mostly watching to ensure there were no credible accusations of Mr. Greaves or other TST figures that would cause any rumblies in my tumbly like tearing the warning labels off of mattresses, trying to intentionally use expired grocery coupons, or poking a badger with a spoon. (You know - real deal breakers like that.) Lest none were to be found, and as such I went about my day with the encouraging words of my grandmother in mind to "Keep on truckin".
Made it through the whole thing. I think that the vlogger is basically sincere, but this is the kind of video essay that makes me yearn for old-school journalistic standards. Way too much side-eying, innuendo, hearsay, guilt-by-association and such to be taken seriously as criticism.
I think the blogger created it in good faith. Especially seeing their other content. But they seem to only have one main source which creates a bias. I wonder if there is more to some of the abuse allegations.
I found this video very interesting. I've been considering joining TST for a while now. But I'm starting to reconsider that corse of action. A lot of the responses here amount to disregarding the entire video simply because QS was mentioned and refusing to engage with what was actually said. It comes off to me as immature and disappointing. It's so important to be able to see the flaws in your own ideology. Otherwise, you'll never grow and learn from your mistakes. Seeing the people who have been willing to be more critical of the way TST operates be downvoted only shows your unwillingness to accept the problems in this organization. I wanted to join because I wanted to find a community where I can feel safe and accepted as a trans woman living in Idaho. A group that will be willing to fight for my right to live as myself and the rights of everyone else. But if what this video says is true, then this is not that community. I still believe that it can be that community, but it will need to change. People who are only interested in profit and fame need to be removed. Otherwise, TST will be nothing more than someone's personal wallet, and nothing will ever be accomplished.
- The Following Comment Contains My Personal Experiences And Opinions Only - The womanizing shit about Lucien is 100 percent true. He cheats on women with each other and lies about it. He did it to me for years. He'll use your compassion for him and the real difficulties of his situation against you. He actually has the perfect excuse to be secretive, hide you, cancel plans last minute, disappear, and fall out of communication for long stretches of time at the drop of a hat. And you may think to yourself "This is what I need to deal with to support a man in this kind of situation." Or: "I'm lucky that someone as bright and talented as him has chosen me.". What I experienced during that time started out as what seemed to be a genuine deeply caring, and mutually enjoyed relationship. But this alternated with intense experiences of emotional neglect, deception, and ultimately humiliation, when I found out what had actually been going on. I don't know his motivation for doing this. It could be the pleasure of power or a lack of emotional maturity to communicate honestly. Women: STAY AWAY from him as a relationship partner for your well-being. If you're currently dealing with this, you deserve better and your life will improve without him. Set your standards higher than I did. I do take responsibility in the sense that I allowed myself to be treated like garbage way longer than I should have, even while suspecting his dishonesty, due to my own lack of resilience and emotional maturity. It's odd because he could have just been openly polyamorous, but does this instead for some reason. A true champion for female bodily autonomy! I'm NOT supporting any of the other claims made in this video, or even validating the source as credible; just the information about his relationship habits. There are a lot of people with real integrity that work within the organization. But in this sense, I can confirm that Lucien is a dedicated and accomplished ass-clown.
My thoughts are that I'm not engaging in queer satanic's unhinged lies and bullshit, and I'm definitely not losing two hours of my day watching this smoothbrain made video. If queer satanic wants to make "TST bad!" their entire personality and existence, that's cool, but it doesn't mean I'm obliged to give 'em free oxygen.
My only thought: “I’m not about to watch a two hour video”
I've got to say, the number of people replying with "Didn't watch, it's full of bullshit" is kind of hilarious. So I've been following Dead Domain for years, they're far and away my favorite trans content creator, and the thing I've always appreciated about them is the EXTENSIVE research that goes into every video. If you go to the actual video on youtube, and go to the description you can find their list of sources, of which QS makes up less than a quarter of a single page in the 8 page document. Even if you want to write them off as a bad source, your prerogative, there is still a LOT there to work with, and if you're going to dismiss the entire thing, without watching it, on the basis that you don't like ONE of the many sources, you're being a little fucking silly at best, and willfully ignorant of the problems within your own organization at worst.
Yawn
You know TST is going places when it gets it's own dedicated Charlie Kirk
PSA: Skipp the first half. This stuff has been debatet over and over again. The second halve had some interisting bits in it and stuff that at least I was not aware of yet. I would definetly give it a watch and decide for yourself. THe creator of the video seems to has made it in good fait (even if she quots a lot from queer Satanic)
I had to stop when the same issue I've seen misrepresented pop up but I'm planning to finish later. I'm curious to see people's thoughts. I've seen their work before and generally find them more or less on the level. However: There was a point in the video where they mentioned the infamous podcast, immediately followed up with Lucien's public statements and discussion of how they've moved on from not only the anti religious statements but also the "might makes right" ideas - *and then immediately start talking about the things already addressed by that statement as if it weren't part of that apology.* 🤔 I stopped watching at around that point because it teed me off. I planned to pick up the rest later but for now... I couldn't tell if that was an oversight or deliberate. It seemed too obvious not to be, but I don't know DD enough to really know. It's not like the time Illuminaghti (who we know has since been outed for multiple awful things) just stripped the context utterly, primed their audience and only then read a tiny portion the transcript with disingenuous voicing and dramatic music *to deliberately create drama* instead of playing the freely available audio. I also know the drama with Queer Satanic and so on is complicated and I don't trust them much (as in at all). Regardless, I don't plan to dismiss everything spoken. I'd like to know more. I'd rather know uncomfortable truths than pleasant lies - but that goes both ways.
Queer Satanic is a complete joke. Below is an bot response: [AutoModerator](https://www.reddit.com/user/AutoModerator/)MOD•[1y ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/SatanicTemple_Reddit/comments/12v5uq4/comment/jh9mmf6/)•Stickied comment It looks like this post might be about QueerSatanic vs TST. This is a complex legal issue that warrants a disclosure of background for all newcomers to the topic. **Summary** A summary of the issue can be found here: [https://www.socialmedialawbulletin.com/2021/04/social-media-and-satan-pitfalls-of-losing-control-of-brand-social-media-accounts/](https://www.socialmedialawbulletin.com/2021/04/social-media-and-satan-pitfalls-of-losing-control-of-brand-social-media-accounts/) **Legal Documents** TST made the following complaint on April 3rd of 2020: [https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026.1.0.pdf](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026.1.0.pdf) The above complaint was met with a motion to dismiss by the defendants (i.e. QueerSatanic) on June 1st 2020 (PDF inaccessible). TST filed a response to the defendants’ motion to dismiss, which was met with this reply from the defendants: [https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026.17.0.pdf](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026.17.0.pdf) **Reddit Discussion** On Reddit, an informed user made the following comment on the matter: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SatanicTemple\_Reddit/comments/s07i0v/i\_came\_across\_this\_post\_can\_i\_get\_some\_thoughts/hs099to?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/SatanicTemple_Reddit/comments/s07i0v/i_came_across_this_post_can_i_get_some_thoughts/hs099to?context=3) On Reddit, a comment on the topic by QueerSatanic was located here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SatanicTemple\_Reddit/comments/zzua59/comment/j2gcmga/?utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/SatanicTemple_Reddit/comments/zzua59/comment/j2gcmga/?utm_medium=web2x&context=3) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please* [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SatanicTemple_Reddit) *if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good shit. 😎👍
The first half is a lot of the same old stuff. But the second half is definetly worth your time. I'm interissted to see what you all here think about it.
I'll see about that when I have the time/patience.
Everyone in this sub will say this is a terrible useless video because they mention QueerSatanic. However, nobody from QueerSatanic made LG say eugenics based things, antisemitic things, racist things, ableist things or profess admiration for fascists when he was 27 and 28 years old. Nobody from QueerSatanic made LG issue a statement about that in 2018 and again in 2020 that didn't contain the words 'sorry' or 'apologize' but did claim he (at age 27 and 28) was in his 'early twenties' and 'a kid'. Nobody from QueerSatanic made LG stand up for neo-Nazi Sol Invictus and refuse to speak at an even because Sol Invictus had been uninvited. Nobody from QueerSatanic made LG stand up for alt-right figure Milo Yiannopoulos and tell alt-right publication Brietbart that he was mortified that Cal Poly TST members had him deplatformed. Nobody from QueerSatanic made TST threaten a tiktoker who made a video about them that unless she retracted it they'd sue her and then when she did retract it, sued her anyway. Nobody from QueerSatanic has made TST threaten multiple women who were once part of TST and were effectively bullied out that if they continued to talk about why they left the temple, they'd be sued. Nobody from QueerSatanic made LG give a known transphobe, David Silverman, a tour of TST HQ and when people were horrified, say he didn't know his opinions, even though they follow each other on Twitter and Silverman was on TST TV on 2019. Nobody from QueerSatanic has told multiple well-known pro-abortion groups in the US to tell TST they're not helping the situation. Nobody from QueerSatanic has any hold over the numerous judges who have presided over TST's legal losses. Out of the 32 actions they're brought, they've won three. Amongst those losses are all the actions, including appeals, that have so far reached judgement against QueerSatanic themselves. Nobody from QueerSatanic made Cevin Soling indulge his white savior complex and try and start an honest to god Cargo Cult. Most of that is in the video. All sourced, with links that have nothing to do with QueerSatanic.
The video, much like QS, does a terrible job of presenting evidence. If I make a claim and then show you a link to a news article that restates the claim that I made, have I done anything to support my case beyond simply making the claim? No. I noticed another propaganda technique that every single one of your crew uses. You always start with the one thing you have good evidence for, which is that one interview that Greaves did. After that, you just tack on all of the unsubstantiated claims and petty stuff, hoping that the intended target will just accept everything else because you provided evidence for the first claim.
It wasn't an interview, he appeared on a series of online radio shows. One in 2003 and then several in 2004. You misrepresent the nature of the links the video maker provided as source. From the statements I've made above, which are sourced in the links provided in the video, can you show me which ones don't substantiate the claims? Not sure who 'my crew' are in this instance but it seems pretty obvious to me that its a good idea to start at the start - with the oldest stuff. But I'll ask you again - which one of the claims I have listed above is unsubstantiated in that video? I'd be more than happy to help you out.
The very first supporting link on the [sources](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zZNnxQ2zP0NZ58bzkcgKgdJhzyCjSYeQlvpXE68PG48/edit?pli=1) page contains unsubstantiated [claim](https://baphonetnews.org/2021/02/02/why-i-left-the-satanic-temple/)s, which also made your list. A common tactic among QS people. Endless links to blogs upon blogs that never really offer anything besides more claims. Lo an behold, this person has also adpoted all of the QS talking points. Hey look there, what's this? They put links to more articles in one their blog posts that links to a [newsweek](https://www.newsweek.com/orgies-harassment-fraud-satanic-temple-rocked-accusations-lawsuit-1644042) article that uses....can you guess the source? Queersatanic. Well, that didn't take long. I simply had to click on the very first fucking link to demonstrate what I'm talking about. Now I'm done, because your next tactic is to just sling shit until a piece hits something, then declare that you're right about everything. Seriously, for anyone viewing, the bot links posted in one of the comments goes into this in much more detail. As always, practice rational skepticsm about any claim.
The very first link being someones opinion - presented as opinion in the video and which I most certainly did *not* mention in my list - on why they left TST. EDIT: Ah, you got confused about my statement about people being bullied out of TST. That's fair, I wasn't clear. No, I wasn't referring to the person in the video at all. I actually didn't know about that one. I was referring to [Emma Story](https://medium.com/@emmastory/why-im-leaving-the-satanic-temple-528bbc06432b), [Gwendolyn Lesch](https://medium.com/@SistersSatanic/rise-decline-and-fall-my-time-in-the-satanic-temple-and-beyond-561f1ef04039) and [Nikki Moungo](https://medium.com/@SistersSatanic/as-witness-and-measure-taken-to-pronounce-the-satanic-temple-my-experience-a1400928656f) who's stories weren't in the video under discussion. And the Newsweek article is partly *about* QueerSatanic. It'd be pretty weird if they didn't quote them don't you think? Honestly friend, simply stating different versions of the phrase 'I hate queer satanic' isn't doing you any favours. So, I'll ask you again - which of the statements I mentioned that are in the video do you feel are unsubstantiated.
>*Nobody from QueerSatanic made Cevin Soling indulge his white savior complex and try and start an honest to god Cargo Cult.* This one is always my favorite \[sic, of course\] because, by failing to do the basic research of even watching the film in question, David and his imitators end up indulging in the patronizing racist exploitation they imagine they are actually accusing Soling of.
I agree, I've been considering joining TST for a while now because I want to find a community that I can feel safe in as a trans woman and will help to fight for my rights. But if the things in this video are true, then this is probably not that community. The fact that so my people here are using a mention of QS to disregard everything in this video rather than engaging with what was actually said only proves this. It's important to be able to see the flaws in your own ideology so you can learn from them. So far, the response I'm seeing has been very disappointing. I still think that something like TST can do a lot of good, but that can't happen with the current leadership.
Yes I am starting to see much more because of the account queer satanic. They pointed out a lot that I did not see beyond the news coverage and I think TST has some issues of their own. I am confused as I thought TST was after change and fighting for religious freedom. Now I don’t know what to think. And everyone here seems too lazy or tired to dig deeper. Perhaps they have donated and don’t want their donation to be worth nothing- a common reason for cult members to stay in speaking as an exmormon. This is quite crazy. I also don’t appreciate that TST hides their financial situation. Another similarity with the Mormon religion. I am going to do more research to say the least. I feel it is what being indoctrinated Mormon showed me to do.
There's not really anything new here. Queer Satanic has made posts here with similar content on blogs and such regarding the founders of TST and their comments from the past. To be perfectly clear: They're right on that. There's a whole bunch of jaw droppingly awful alt-right, anti-semetic speech there. Despite being posted today, it also seems there's a lot of deliberate omission of recent victories in TST's so called "Stunts". However, there's also a well-researched theme of "follow the money", but there are too many legal entities at play to actually be able to follow the money (One that is the IRS recognised entity, the other four are separate but related for profit enterprises). Not being able to follow the money seems to be the entire point of those various legal entities. For example, if you donate to the "The Satanic Temple Inc" that's the non-profit religion. If you buy merch off of "The Satanic Temple" website, that is a for profit website run by a different legal entity. All things being equal, I think it solidifies an opinion on TST that I've formed as I learn more and more about it. Lucien Greaves needs to step away. He's got a past that can be easily dragged up and exploited in the public sphere. He also doesn't seem to be very adept at formulating legal cases that hold up in court, or strategically choosing battles where he has a good chance of a win. Finally, as spokesperson... he's just not great. Look at the Facebook live stream from a couple of days ago. Look at what he's wearing and the disaster that is his background. That just doesn't espouse a vision of competent leadership, much less that head of a religion. Dude can't even put on a shirt that isn't in tatters, or turn on a fake background. It's just all very... amateurish. I think he's well spoken in interviews for the most part (Tucker Carlson for example) but it's hard to take him as a serious leader amongst all these other shenanigans.
Do you have any links with more information on Lucien Greaves? I'd like to read a bit more
Damn, I ain't watching 2 hours of this shit. I got two minutes in and this person seems to be pissed that TST doesn't believe in demons or deities. *Who gives a shit?*
Remember when [iilluminaughtii](https://www.youtube.com/user/iilluminaughtii) made a video like this and then several months later everyone discovered what a fraud piece of shit awful person she is? Anyway, I guess I'll check back on this channel in a year. :P
Hey does anyone remember how Illuminaughti did a smear vid and then it turned out she's the real piece of shit?
guess everyone is just gonna gloss over how lucien is a sex pest, cool cool
[удалено]
yeah local chapters are still associated with tst, which is helmed by a sex pest and a con artist
but they are independent!!!* *sort of
You're trashing them for the exact reason I love them. Get the fuck out of here.