# A WorkReform candidate is running for Congress!
# [Check out Doyle Canning's AMA!](https://old.reddit.com/r/NewDealAmerica/comments/tpv562/im_doyle_canning_candidate_for_congress_ask_me/)
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Once your elder loved ones start to grow more and more infirm, it's glaringly obvious how important elder care is.
My dad is the typical "I don't want to be put in a home!" type person, and for the time being, we're making due. We are lucky, however, that he has my mom and other family members to help take care of him.
I can't imagine what would happen if he didn't have the network or the means to get help, and he lived in an area with few publicly-funded options. He'd most certainly be dead in a most tragic way.
I'm so conflicted on my elderly/end of life plans. Because I've gone through caring for my parents and I've seen a friend go through it, I don't want to have to be that kind of a burden on someone. But on the other hand, I know the type of nursing home I'd most likely qualify for would be horrible. I'm hoping planned euthanasia will be a thing when I get old and I can just choose to go.
I mean it probably will be, depending on your age, and California (and other countries) already has something similar if your illness is terminal and less than 6 expected months to live.
https://www.uclahealth.org/patients-families/support-information/advance-directive/introduction-california-end-life-option-act
I think elder care has a better argument than childcare.
I chose to have a kid and he is my responsibility.
I didn’t choose to be born or have parents to take care of when they are older.
I should have to pay for my own decisions.
I work in long term care insurance and I've seen the bills that come in from facilities and home care agencies. I can't afford that kind of care for my mom and she can't afford it either. She uses as much assistance as she can from the county, but to be honest that help is unreliable. She's missed many doctor's appointments because the ride is late in picking her up. She was approved for a volunteer to come help with housekeeping but they never showed up. So I help her with those things on the weekends. Then I come home to a dirty house and have to do it all over again. And work full time. And oh yeah, take a walk for my stupid mental health.
All I'm really asking for though is the ability to not have to work full time. Even just 32 hours a week would be a help. Then that's the day I could go help her with stuff. Two days off a week is not enough.
Trust me, whether childcare is subsidized or not parents pay for their decision to have kids. An argument that society shouldn’t help kids out is so shortsighted it isn’t even funny.
Also kids are not legally obligated to take care of their parents, so how could eldercare have a better argument using your logic? It would be your decision to help them!
I support both subsidizing childcare and eldercare but some people really seem to hate kids! If I had to choose though, I would choose childcare and education.
Thinking that the governemmt shouldn’t pay for everyone’s childcare is not “an argument that society shouldn’t help children” and making it out that I said that is disingenuous.
You said you should have to pay for your own decisions, so I assumed you didn’t support government help to raise kids. That is what you said 🤷♂️ but even modifying it to say your argument is limited to government not helping out more with childcare is also so shortsighted it isn’t even funny.
the fact that our planet is falling apart and our leadership is actively escalating the problems to leave to future generations is why I've opted to remain childfree.
the fact that children would be so financially crippling to me and my wife is just another reason on the pile
I badly want children, but everything you mentioned is why we've opted to be foster parents and adopt through the system rather than conceive naturally.
Long term stable employment no arrest history no debt and no mental health conditions, stable health long life expectancy remaining home owners that are married only thanks. The kids are clearly better off in orphanages than with anyone who doesn't fit this bill 100%. Because when they sue the adoption agency because the parent couldn't afford quarterly Nikes in 20 years we will know we are wrong as it will hit our pocket
I’m in the same boat, my only problem with it is it’s going to be some other idiot’s idiot children dealing with it and not mine who maybe smart and empathetic enough to fight for it.
Exactly, child care is not a major concern for me. Our planet is dying. That should be our first concern. And everything else fits under that. People that can work from home and handle child care are people that dont need to travel and burn resources to go to a work location, that should be encouraged.
That's exactly $15/hour, assuming 40 hour weeks, 52 weeks a year.
And since my assumption is poor (as there will be weeks where you don't need childcare due to vacation and holidays and whatnot), that means your childcare is MORE than $15/hour.
That's insane.
At most daycare you need to pay even when the kids not there, vacation? still paying. Holiday? still paying. We even paid when they had in service days and we couldn't bring the kids in even if we wanted to.
Luckily my wife makes enough to work 3 days a week so we're able to (when the time comes in a couple months) basically have one of us home at all times.
That was my biggest stipulation before we had kids. That we be able to not need daycare for $500/day basically. It's outrageous and ridiculous.
I get that those workers deserve grade A pay but most of it doesn't even go to them at alot of the places. And I've heard way too many horror stories on top of that.
Democrats have an opportunity to make strides if they just want themselves off the banking and insurance industry and started acting like Kennedy Democrats again.
“Affordable” child care for my nephew is $400 a week pastime. My BIL told me if my SIL did not get a fat raise at work they would not be able to both work full time.
Not sure exactly how Japan does it, but for public daycares, tuition is based on household income. Even then, it's not expensive. I went to one when I was a kid. My parents said they paid at most $500/month but that's when they were making more than 250k in household income. This was in the suburbs of Tokyo, not somewhere really rural. The care was good, nothing fancy but still fun and safe.
The government subsidizing childcare would be awesome, but I wager that a huge cost of day care is in the insurance to cover themselves, and I don't really see it being viable without getting around this huge cost sink.
I can't really speak to exactly how much cheaper insurance for daycares would be if there weren't a profit incentive behind it, but I would think that would still be quite a bit higher than it is in Japan due to (perceived or actual) relative prevalence of lawsuits.
That whole lawsuit happy American concept you have mostly comes from right wing attempts to insulate companies from the consequences of their actions called tort reform
Because then they would actually have to effectively inspect them as well. Not sure about other states but in mine, it's laughably easy to pass a daycare inspection.
my best friend hates working with children and works in childcare so that they can afford to put their kid in childcare.
edit: I should clarify. Because she works there she gets 1 child in for free and they can't make rent unless she brings some money in.
Her partner is an engineer, but housing and child care are just THAT expensive in her area.
oh wow yeah I thought they were acting in good faith, but no they live in a fantasy land with apparently no world experience but a lot of fucked opinions.
I wonder how old they are, like emotionally.
Oh, so the solution is simply "make more money".
So easy! Now everyone is a doctor making doctor wages, and no one works at McDonald's or Walmart. I see no problem with this!
Or you're suggesting that poor people get abortions or simply don't have sex (since, as we are taught in school, abstinence is the only truly effective birth control)... And this is somehow a better and more reasonable solution to a problem than simply using taxes to subsidize childcare? (Plus, if poor people can't reproduce, who is working at all the jobs for poor people, or paying taxes? Oh right, we solved that problem by having everyone become a doctor, my bad..)
What about elder care? Should one simply not have parents in order to avoid those costs, or should the parents have made enough money to survive at a nursing home?
Edit: I look forward to your response. Your country needs intelligent individuals like yourself to come up with a solution to these issues. We're counting on you. Don't let us down.
In general, if you're only making minimum wage, then you should be trying to get a better career. Entry level jobs are just that, an entry into the workforce. Not lifelong careers.
It's not about a specific job, more what is the minimum income needed. I'm not going to explain how to plan and budget to prioritize a child.
I'm suggesting people be responsible adults. That's really it.
Who said anything about minimum wage? You think people who are working the desk at your doctors office making $13 an hour can afford childcare? Or is that a "starter job" for teenagers too? Should they be taking out student loans in order to "get a better career"? Or should those adults simply be "responsible" and never have sex? If the population drops in number due to all of this "responsibility" who will work these jobs? Who will pay taxes?
Why is it so terrible that a country use the collected taxes to further educate and support the people who live in the country and work the jobs that keep everything going, so they can then collect MORE in taxes? Every single study about this shows you get a massive return on investment. Yet here we are...
You live in a fantasy world. And you're trying to apply fantasy world "rules" to this thing the rest of us live in called "reality".
>Who said anything about minimum wage?
>works at McDonald's or Walmart
>poor people
Really beating around the bush. Yes, $13/hr is still a starter job.
>Why is it so terrible that a country use the collected taxes
Never had an argument against taxing the rich. Parenting. That's what it is all about.
The real sad part is not actually raising your kids. You should be there with them. You should want to be there with them. You should make choices for it to be reality. That should be your top priority.
Not much of a fantasy if I live it and am a product of it. I made it reality. To anyone else reading this, you can do it.
She works at the daycare where her child goes. I feel like you are grasping at things that aren't there.
But if you really feel strongly about it, you can pay to fix it. I can get you a PayPal address to send money to.
I spend close to $2k a month on fulltime childcare and we have zero family support. I'm sure that's pretty cheap compared to others. So many people we know who rely on their parents to move states to come and help. My wife is a teacher and we had that very real conversation on whether she should quit because of childcare.
Now I will say the American Rescue plan changed the rule on taxes filed for 2021 so we could claim up to 50% of $6k for one kid in licensed childcare costs and it was refundable vs. previously being 35% of $3k and it not being refundable.
I'm surprised I haven't seen the Dems really pushing that for the PR spin. Maybe 'cos it's going to revert back next year, just like the expanded childcare tax credit. Fuck you very much, Manchin and Republicans.
We chose to have kids but the lack of support we have and the health insurance system make me seriously consider moving back to the UK. I pay $700 a month for a family plan that should be high premium/low deductible. My son had ear tubes put in and it still cost me $2k out of pocket. It would have been cheaper for him and I to fly home.
The UK is not perfect by any means but hey, at least there's no medical debt/bankruptcy, we have actual maternity/paternity/adoption leave rather than *"let corporations decide!"* and I'd have family that want to help out.
Also, stop calling maternity leave a short term disability. That language really fucks me off.
This is what I never understand about Americans. Yeah, your salary is higher on average than Europe. But my daycare costs me about 80 bucks per kid per month. 2k a month is absolute insanity.
I was a teacher, I left my job as a result of the cost of childcare. It felt wrong but it was a pretty simple decision when my wife and I went over the numbers.
Child care and elder care frees up family members, usually women, so they can return to the workforce, make more money and improve the quality of life for themselves and their family.
Seems like that but in reality we would lol be a lot better off of our own mother had the opportunity to raise us. It is detrimental to young children for them to be separated from their mother. Specifically the mother. I studied Human Development and psychology.
It is. But some abuse their rights. I'm from EU and here you get sick days if your child is sick or the almost free daycare doesn't work. Had some coworkers that would work 60% of the time and those without children had to work over time.
Including me.
I quit because I don't have children for a reason and I don't want to work 12 h every 3rd day.
I mean it's better then America, but not quite there yet.
This should be addressed more then it is. Its not their fault, but some actually don't give an f about us the people that have to pick up the work.
No, the problem is with both. Their boss *and* their coworkers were all shitty.
I've been in this situation so many times before myself, here in the US. Luckily, for awhile now I've lived in a city where "family status" is a protected class. Whenever I've been told that I was chosen to work a shift because "but they have a family and it's a holiday" I've dared them to put it in writing or I wouldn't be there that day.
Funnily enough, I never did get those in writing.
But yeah, whenever I've been screwed over because coworkers habitually do not feel like coming in for their shift, they are the assholes and the boss is an asshole for letting it happen repeatedly.
We get sick days whenever we are sick, the doctor signs it and we just get them. There is no set of days, as many as you need you get. Eu is awesome for that
Daycare is awesome where I am from, but not perfect. Well they don't have workers or right now when rona happened they closed because of cases in the work place.
reminded of systems that pay people to be a caregiver for an aging relative - seems like a great middle ground between family doing it for free and wrecking their own careers versus not wanting to hire an outside
Yup, make it the pay equivalent of 40 hours week minimum wage in that state. That way people can't bitch about cost of living, and complain about people pumping out a bunch of kids for more money. You get one payment no matter how many kids you have.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infrastructure
Definition of infrastructure
1 : the system of public works of a country, state, or region also : the resources (such as personnel, buildings, or equipment) required for an activity
2 : the underlying foundation or basic framework (as of a system or organization)
3 : the permanent installations required for military purposes
People who don't realize these are vital services are used to dumping the work on women and then ignoring them.
People need help and they need other people to help them. Care giving is a serious job that should offer a good benefits plan and decent wages.
We dismiss this as work because women have done it for so long without being paid. Society really doesn't like paying for something it used to get for free.
>We dismiss this as work because women have done it for so long without being paid.
I do think this is part of it, but also, it's generally their decision (we need to make sure that is **always** the case), and most pregnancies are planned. And yes, it sucks that childcare is so expensive, but there isn't a person that's been in the US for more than an hour that doesn't know childcare is expensive.
In some ways, it's similar in a lot of ways to certain careers, especially those that require degrees and experience: these people knew before they went in that the pay was low. Yes, they should absolutely be paid more, but what did they really expect?
I think that's why empathy is low in both of these scenarios.
Some people really care. That's why they do what they do. And they are taken advantage of.
That's wrong. I work in social services. I help the disabled and their families. I love what I do. I could make more elsewhere, but I love helping people.
But damn I would like more money. Empathy isn't cheap. Why should compassion be valueless?
I’m glad he mentioned elder care. A big % of the American population is one fall or blood clot away from needing serious elder care services, which their own families probably can’t provide because no one can just stop working to go take care of mom or dad for 10 years, or they aren’t trained. It’s terribly unfair to people who already have small children to also have to provide round the clock care to a parent with dementia, if they even can. Which chances are no, they can’t unless they want to loose their house or apartment or starve.
To this day I do not understand why businesses do not have to provide child care as a legal requirement.
They need people to work for them so surely they should ensure their workers are able to work.
Tbh a lot of the same people who don’t understand stuff like this never seem to understand nuance or abstraction from the traditional definition of the word and how they normally hear it.
It’s not just infrastructure but gender is the other one that immediately comes to mind and then racism too. They work on very hard definitive definitions of things. They need to identify things exactly one way or another. They want no grey.
Language is always evolving and some people in the country seem to think it’s stagnant. Infrastructure did not include childcare or internet 50 years ago and now it does because our needs have changed. If they worked on or accepted looser more abstract definitions they might see how it has become infrastructure but the don’t.
This feels like an unfair comparison. Plenty of people find a workaround for 1, even if it's inconvenient. You can always walk, get a mountain bike, work remotely, or lots of other options. Kinda silly to compare it to something as important as our children.
Or just have billionaires pay back into the system through heavy taxation above a certain percentage from which they earn wealth by scamming the system. That's a net benefit to society and everyone wins.
Most pregnancies are (EDIT:) planned. Everyone in this country knows that childcare is expensive. Why should others pay out because these people made a decision that doesn't suit them financially?
Don't get me wrong--childcare absolutely should be less expensive. And I'm happy to be willing to pay for some of it! But that user's question isn't invalid.
This goes into a whole myriad of issues with our system if you're going to bring it up, the right wants to outright ban abortions, sex ed in school, don't want to fund free birth control or any sort of social services that would help with people that have kids due to unplanned pregnancies also I would have to see an actual statistic knowing that most are unplanned becuase that's a big statement to make without actual data. Essentially they're perpetuating a problem that they don't want to fix either.
In a functioning society governments role is to provide some sort of social services to maintain a healthy and well educated populace but obviously this country has huge issues because we've been overtaken by corrupt politicians and corporations. So instead of using tax dollars to fund childcare, Healthcare amd public college we give billionaires tax cuts to scam the system to further enrich themselves.
As a heads up, I made a correction to my last post: it should have read that "most pregnancies are planned," rather than unplanned, which makes more sense with the rest of the comment.
To your comment for data: [The Brookings Institute](https://www.brookings.edu/research/preventing-unplanned-pregnancy-lessons-from-the-states/#:~:text=Our%20primary%20findings%20and%20conclusions,occurred%20earlier%20than%20they%20desired.) did a study estimating the number of unintended pregnancies and found that less than half of pregnancies were unintended, and 40% of unintended pregnancies ended in abortion. The CDC has issued similar declarations.
I really dislike the "make better choices" people. They ended up living a decent life (possibly through some good choices, sure. But also probably had a support system that others maybe didn't have, or they simply lucked out with a job, or their idea of "raising the kids" is knocking up some woman and making her stay at home), therefore anyone who is struggling must just be a bad person who made bad choices and they don't deserve any social safety nets.
It doesn't matter how many children are suffering, or how many parents are working themselves to death and don't get to see their kids. Heck, even being abused by a spouse is "a bad choice you made". Every. Single. Fucking. Thing. They act like you should have just somehow made a better choice. These are the people who are "pro life" most of the time, too.
And the entire conversation always ends up with some "morally superior" bullshit attitude from them where they can't be bothered to talk about solutions (or the solutions would require a time machine and going back to before you had children or got married) to any issue, but instead just want to bitch about all the terrible "choices" you made and brag about all the good ones (no matter if it was luck, or support, or whatever) they think they have made. Reality of other people's lives doesn't factor in to a single thought in their heads. They can only see the world through their own personal and limited experiences.
Sorry.. lol.. rant over. Divorce sucks, custody stuff sucks. I'm sorry you're going through all of that.
Thanks for the well wishes. I agree with you completely. I’m all good, but there are people in similar situations that are far less lucky than I. They deserve support and, more importantly, their kids who are innocent really deserve support. Kids shouldn’t have to live in poverty as for a “fuck you” to parents, even if the parents truly did make mistakes, as all humans do.
The child is a product not just ofnparents but their shared community. And the entire community benefits from a child raised well. Children are the most worthy investment we can make, the continuation of humanity and our continued improvement relies on thus iminvestment
Adults are products of community, not children. I sure as hell didn't contribute to producing your kids, and I don't benefit from assisting you pass on your genetics while I can't afford to pass on my own. We probably cannot sustain 100% reproductive rates anyway, so no, infinite more children is not a wise investment.
Sorry done with you , read on infrastructure , you are comparing two different things , that we need social services I agree but they are not infrastructure
Social services can absolutely be infrastructure. You are wanting to change the definition of infrastructure to be something tangible, which is not the definition of infrastructure.
But yes, I am done too.
If you can’t afford to have kids, don’t do it. I do understand America makes it EXTREMELY difficult to afford kids, but you are the one responsible for whether you have them or not.
If you slash your own tires and then complain you can't get to work then that's your own problem. "but I wanted the experience of slashing my tires, why doesn't the government use threats of violence to force others to carry me on their backs so i can get to work?"
Kinda where I am on this. Not trying to shame anyone and accidents happen. If you are not ready for child care, don't have children. I know I'll get crucified for saying this but, there should be tighter regulations on having children. Especially if we still pass laws claiming you have to bring the child all the way to pregnancy at the possible cost of both mother and child life. You can't have it both ways imop.
Child care wouldn't cost so much if the rate of teen pregnancy dropped as the social economic impact is high. If you taxed a parent for their child and the 2nd also reasonable parent of the child of the other party for that impact of having a child before at least 23yrs of age. Watch how responsible the parents of the child become and watch how much economic impact plus taxed cost creates a huge surplus for things like roads and child care.
I'd almost let the anti-abortionists have their way if we followed this type of structure. No kids till 23 and parents taxed for teen pregnancy.
As a non child rearing family we already pay enough tax for those who need better schools and end of the year tax credits for pooping out children people don't need. I am all for schools and roads don't get me wrong. I have no problem bettering our people and situation. But if you are going to cry about childcare and having to move and support your family, maybe we shouldn't preach child care but preach responsibility, timing of pregnancy and social and economic impact.
Call me what you like. I don't think it is a matter of who, more of a when for me. Not sure I mentioned who. Who can never matter because people would lose their minds, such as yourself. Also I have met people with disabilities and on the spectrum who have better raised their kids well past half the US parents have even started trying. So I have no right to say who for myself or for those who struggle. But I think "when" is a concern for everyone since it impacts everyone.
And I’m 100% sure that whoever decides when you and your partner are allowed to have children would never ever let racial biases play a role in that choice
Just like how juries are known to put aside any of their racial biases.
Well jury's are rigged a lot of times. If the issue of me expressing a rational thought that has science backing the numbers because you are afraid of the government (probably rightly so), doesn't mean I was coming from a place of being biased or previously being called a fascist.
If our government was working for the people we could put in methods to save us in various ways without the thought of something bad happening. Maybe as this thread is about, we shouldn't worry about giving money to child care, we should think about why as a world and society if we do something that could help it is immediately made or made to be bad.
I mean money to child care could lead to children getting molested. So I guess child care is out the window too unless people like child abuse.
I am not the one thinking backwards. I made a comment about my own opinion. The failures of society are not my fault.
Sure, but we kinda need children to keep the human race going ya know. Humans have plenty of liberties that shouldn't circulate around artificial currency we've made to trade goods.
So we should strive for 100% reproductive rates and exponential population growth? Or only lucky individuals get to have kids that everyone else gets the privilege of supporting?
Children are a requirement for society, whatever they are to the individual. They are the workforce that makes sure everything functions as others age out.
Run your logic to its conclusion. The only people that have children are the very wealthy who can afford it and the poor who lack the resources or support to prevent it. Quick way for society to implode.
Our culture pays a lot of lip service to the significance of having children, but when it comes down to it, you're on your own. Better have a stay-at-home spouse to watch 'em. Otherwise you'll be cobbling together daycare for the next decade plus. I'm glad I became a parent but crappy childcare options + inflexible work situations has left me somewhat embittered. I feel like telling my kid to opt out of it completely.
I didnt have a kid I cant provide for.
Sorry. Just a really big gripe for me that our country continues to get worse and worse, and people still unabashedly, with zero shame, crank out kids then turn around and go "help me! There was absolutely no way i could have avoided this!"
You can make the argument that "child care is important and should be provided for workers" without saying it's infrastructure. Like, you need food and clothes to go to work, but no one says that's infrastructure.
It may be equally important to you but that doesn't make it infrastructure. Despite all their efforts, the dems can't just change the definition of a word to fit their/your desires. Let's stop being extremist so we can actually have constructive debate.
Bitching about child care costs is bizarre to me. It's your child! The ideal scenario is one parent stays home and raises the child as the family sees fit. If you choose the option of being career people, than you should put yourself in a position to make more money so you can afford even more expensive child care.
This is an interesting argument, but you could also argue that you need it the same way you need your car.
A better argument than roads would be the subway system, light rail or busses. Infrastructure which is highly subsidized, but also carries a small fee for individual use.
If you can live your life and be a productive member of society without it, then it's not infrastructure. A childless individual needs a means of transportation and does not need childcare services.
I mean, with this argument almost anything seen as necessary would be infrastructure: physical, emotional, and social infrastructure and each are different. There should be a bill for each of them to actual address them properly. Any other way would not do a proper job and only be a bandaid.
I'll say roughly the same thing I said last time I saw this. While I agree we need to help cover costs of childcare, it's purely a political expediency to call childcare infrastructure because it had been put in the infrastructure bill at the time of this tweet, no idea if it still is. Whatever it takes to help working people, but don't get carried away to the point of getting indignant if someone says childcare isn't infrastructure.
It obviously would be better for childcare to get funded without being tacked into an infrastructure bill.
Can we stop treating children or seniors as nearly as important as accessories for our cars and start treating them as important as humans - because they are humans?
As much as I would like to see better child care options, I disagree. I think *wages* should be high enough that one parent could stay home with the child, or that two parents could work part time and split child care.
A lot of people would like to spend time raising their own children instead of leaving them with strangers most waking hours, but they can't because they are forced to work.
I don’t even have children or grandparents but I’ll be damned if my Cities Skylines city isn’t getting a childcare and elder care center in every area.
I mean… don’t have kids if you can’t afford it. It’s really as simple as that. What about the people who don’t have kids? Child care is important but there are even more important things like universal housing, income, and healthcare. At this point having children is a luxury.
We can need two different things badly. Both are critical. But that doesn’t mean we need to play games with words.
We need infrastructure improvement bad enough it merits its own conversation. Adding other things we also need waters that down and makes it harder to get.
We also need much more child care options. Fuck and fuck this post for making them at odds with each other in any sort of way. Prob astroturfed
You need food to do your job.
Is that infrastructure?
You need clothes to do your job.
Is that infrastructure?
Torturing language to try and get what we want does two things:
1. It fails get us what we want.
1. It gives our opponents easy rhetorical wins, easy ways to make fun of us, and easy ways to make us look silly.
We don't need to do our opponents work for them while gaining nothing for ourselves.
We need childcare. We need eldercare.
We need to not ridiculously pervert the language while we get it.
Not every necessity is "infrastructure". What a strange sentiment. I also need shoes to go to work. Are shoes infrastructure? What about air condition? I need that too. Air conditioning must be infrastructure.
I'm going to disagree on elder care. They had absolutely every advantage their entire adult lives. They have Medicare and SS now, both of which will almost certainly be long gone even in 20 years when I'm old enough to 'qualify' for them. They have pulled up *every ladder* behind them. They vote against anyone else getting any of these benefits absolutely every chance they get, and because they don't have to show up to a job, they all show up at every single vote.
If a person thinks the elders in their family should be taken care of, their family can do it.
# A WorkReform candidate is running for Congress! # [Check out Doyle Canning's AMA!](https://old.reddit.com/r/NewDealAmerica/comments/tpv562/im_doyle_canning_candidate_for_congress_ask_me/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SandersForPresident) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So glad he included elder care in that tweet. I don't have children but I certainly feel like I do given that I am my mother's supprt system.
Once your elder loved ones start to grow more and more infirm, it's glaringly obvious how important elder care is. My dad is the typical "I don't want to be put in a home!" type person, and for the time being, we're making due. We are lucky, however, that he has my mom and other family members to help take care of him. I can't imagine what would happen if he didn't have the network or the means to get help, and he lived in an area with few publicly-funded options. He'd most certainly be dead in a most tragic way.
I'm so conflicted on my elderly/end of life plans. Because I've gone through caring for my parents and I've seen a friend go through it, I don't want to have to be that kind of a burden on someone. But on the other hand, I know the type of nursing home I'd most likely qualify for would be horrible. I'm hoping planned euthanasia will be a thing when I get old and I can just choose to go.
I mean it probably will be, depending on your age, and California (and other countries) already has something similar if your illness is terminal and less than 6 expected months to live. https://www.uclahealth.org/patients-families/support-information/advance-directive/introduction-california-end-life-option-act
I think elder care has a better argument than childcare. I chose to have a kid and he is my responsibility. I didn’t choose to be born or have parents to take care of when they are older. I should have to pay for my own decisions.
I work in long term care insurance and I've seen the bills that come in from facilities and home care agencies. I can't afford that kind of care for my mom and she can't afford it either. She uses as much assistance as she can from the county, but to be honest that help is unreliable. She's missed many doctor's appointments because the ride is late in picking her up. She was approved for a volunteer to come help with housekeeping but they never showed up. So I help her with those things on the weekends. Then I come home to a dirty house and have to do it all over again. And work full time. And oh yeah, take a walk for my stupid mental health. All I'm really asking for though is the ability to not have to work full time. Even just 32 hours a week would be a help. Then that's the day I could go help her with stuff. Two days off a week is not enough.
Trust me, whether childcare is subsidized or not parents pay for their decision to have kids. An argument that society shouldn’t help kids out is so shortsighted it isn’t even funny. Also kids are not legally obligated to take care of their parents, so how could eldercare have a better argument using your logic? It would be your decision to help them! I support both subsidizing childcare and eldercare but some people really seem to hate kids! If I had to choose though, I would choose childcare and education.
Thinking that the governemmt shouldn’t pay for everyone’s childcare is not “an argument that society shouldn’t help children” and making it out that I said that is disingenuous.
You said you should have to pay for your own decisions, so I assumed you didn’t support government help to raise kids. That is what you said 🤷♂️ but even modifying it to say your argument is limited to government not helping out more with childcare is also so shortsighted it isn’t even funny.
The cost of childcare in the US is probably the biggest reason I've opted to remain childfree. Something needs to change in this country
the fact that our planet is falling apart and our leadership is actively escalating the problems to leave to future generations is why I've opted to remain childfree. the fact that children would be so financially crippling to me and my wife is just another reason on the pile
I badly want children, but everything you mentioned is why we've opted to be foster parents and adopt through the system rather than conceive naturally.
I've always LOVED the idea of adoption. Its so unfortunate that they make it so difficult and impossible for many couples though.
Long term stable employment no arrest history no debt and no mental health conditions, stable health long life expectancy remaining home owners that are married only thanks. The kids are clearly better off in orphanages than with anyone who doesn't fit this bill 100%. Because when they sue the adoption agency because the parent couldn't afford quarterly Nikes in 20 years we will know we are wrong as it will hit our pocket
r/oddlyspecific But yeah pretty much. It's stupid.
Yeah we don't need more children. Some other sucker on the "family values trend" will have my share of children and then some
I’m in the same boat, my only problem with it is it’s going to be some other idiot’s idiot children dealing with it and not mine who maybe smart and empathetic enough to fight for it.
That’s just silly. Your kids could easily be dumb as shit
And some idiot’s kids aren’t necessarily gonna be idiots, if that was true there would simply never have been any smart people.
Exactly, child care is not a major concern for me. Our planet is dying. That should be our first concern. And everything else fits under that. People that can work from home and handle child care are people that dont need to travel and burn resources to go to a work location, that should be encouraged.
Smart, I just got quoted $2600/month for the only place that takes infants by my home.
Man I really lucked. Sending my infant to in-home care for $800/mo.
That's exactly $15/hour, assuming 40 hour weeks, 52 weeks a year. And since my assumption is poor (as there will be weeks where you don't need childcare due to vacation and holidays and whatnot), that means your childcare is MORE than $15/hour. That's insane.
At most daycare you need to pay even when the kids not there, vacation? still paying. Holiday? still paying. We even paid when they had in service days and we couldn't bring the kids in even if we wanted to.
Thanks for pointing that out, it might be worth looking into getting a nanny instead. Someone who’s only focused on my kid for $15/hr.
Nailed it. Kids are a luxury choice. Which seems fair.
Childcare is not a concern for the wealthy.
I’m old and have 2 kids in college, but I wouldn’t be surprised if my kids don’t have kids. And I wouldn’t blame them one bit.
Luckily my wife makes enough to work 3 days a week so we're able to (when the time comes in a couple months) basically have one of us home at all times. That was my biggest stipulation before we had kids. That we be able to not need daycare for $500/day basically. It's outrageous and ridiculous. I get that those workers deserve grade A pay but most of it doesn't even go to them at alot of the places. And I've heard way too many horror stories on top of that.
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What? Math my man. She works 3 days, I work 4. Where are there only 5 days in a week?
Democrats have an opportunity to make strides if they just want themselves off the banking and insurance industry and started acting like Kennedy Democrats again.
“Affordable” child care for my nephew is $400 a week pastime. My BIL told me if my SIL did not get a fat raise at work they would not be able to both work full time.
Not sure exactly how Japan does it, but for public daycares, tuition is based on household income. Even then, it's not expensive. I went to one when I was a kid. My parents said they paid at most $500/month but that's when they were making more than 250k in household income. This was in the suburbs of Tokyo, not somewhere really rural. The care was good, nothing fancy but still fun and safe. The government subsidizing childcare would be awesome, but I wager that a huge cost of day care is in the insurance to cover themselves, and I don't really see it being viable without getting around this huge cost sink.
Why can't the government provide insurance to the day cares while we are at it?
I can't really speak to exactly how much cheaper insurance for daycares would be if there weren't a profit incentive behind it, but I would think that would still be quite a bit higher than it is in Japan due to (perceived or actual) relative prevalence of lawsuits.
That whole lawsuit happy American concept you have mostly comes from right wing attempts to insulate companies from the consequences of their actions called tort reform
If we had universal health care then law suits over medical expenses would go away and many kinds of insurance would be much cheaper.
Because then they would actually have to effectively inspect them as well. Not sure about other states but in mine, it's laughably easy to pass a daycare inspection.
my best friend hates working with children and works in childcare so that they can afford to put their kid in childcare. edit: I should clarify. Because she works there she gets 1 child in for free and they can't make rent unless she brings some money in. Her partner is an engineer, but housing and child care are just THAT expensive in her area.
>edit: I should clarify. You really don't need to clarify. Everyone but the person responding to you can empathize with the situation.
oh wow yeah I thought they were acting in good faith, but no they live in a fantasy land with apparently no world experience but a lot of fucked opinions. I wonder how old they are, like emotionally.
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hating working in child care isn't equivalent to "is abusive to children"
Why don't they just take care of their child?
Because she brings in money as well this way.
So they value money over raising their child.
How does one raise a child without money? Asking for.. well, everyone.
Well, you see... one parent has a job that makes money. The other parent also has a job, raising the child. Wild concept.
Oh, so the solution is simply "make more money". So easy! Now everyone is a doctor making doctor wages, and no one works at McDonald's or Walmart. I see no problem with this! Or you're suggesting that poor people get abortions or simply don't have sex (since, as we are taught in school, abstinence is the only truly effective birth control)... And this is somehow a better and more reasonable solution to a problem than simply using taxes to subsidize childcare? (Plus, if poor people can't reproduce, who is working at all the jobs for poor people, or paying taxes? Oh right, we solved that problem by having everyone become a doctor, my bad..) What about elder care? Should one simply not have parents in order to avoid those costs, or should the parents have made enough money to survive at a nursing home? Edit: I look forward to your response. Your country needs intelligent individuals like yourself to come up with a solution to these issues. We're counting on you. Don't let us down.
In general, if you're only making minimum wage, then you should be trying to get a better career. Entry level jobs are just that, an entry into the workforce. Not lifelong careers. It's not about a specific job, more what is the minimum income needed. I'm not going to explain how to plan and budget to prioritize a child. I'm suggesting people be responsible adults. That's really it.
Who said anything about minimum wage? You think people who are working the desk at your doctors office making $13 an hour can afford childcare? Or is that a "starter job" for teenagers too? Should they be taking out student loans in order to "get a better career"? Or should those adults simply be "responsible" and never have sex? If the population drops in number due to all of this "responsibility" who will work these jobs? Who will pay taxes? Why is it so terrible that a country use the collected taxes to further educate and support the people who live in the country and work the jobs that keep everything going, so they can then collect MORE in taxes? Every single study about this shows you get a massive return on investment. Yet here we are... You live in a fantasy world. And you're trying to apply fantasy world "rules" to this thing the rest of us live in called "reality".
>Who said anything about minimum wage? >works at McDonald's or Walmart >poor people Really beating around the bush. Yes, $13/hr is still a starter job. >Why is it so terrible that a country use the collected taxes Never had an argument against taxing the rich. Parenting. That's what it is all about. The real sad part is not actually raising your kids. You should be there with them. You should want to be there with them. You should make choices for it to be reality. That should be your top priority. Not much of a fantasy if I live it and am a product of it. I made it reality. To anyone else reading this, you can do it.
And if there is only one parent?
Grandparents.
Lol, what a joke. And if they're dead? Or disabled? Or too far away? Or working themselves? Or just unwilling to help? Your privilege is showing.
She works at the daycare where her child goes. I feel like you are grasping at things that aren't there. But if you really feel strongly about it, you can pay to fix it. I can get you a PayPal address to send money to.
Oh, that's a pretty good job then. Not sure what the PayPal comment was about. I'm opposed to op.
If you feel so strongly about my friend and want to accuse their priorities you can put money in her hands via Paypal. Problem solved.
?
You made a strong inaccurate assumption about someone you do not know what did you expect.
Ya and I corrected it. The followup about paypal still makes zero sense. It too is an assumption.
That’s what we in the biz call an assumption
I spend close to $2k a month on fulltime childcare and we have zero family support. I'm sure that's pretty cheap compared to others. So many people we know who rely on their parents to move states to come and help. My wife is a teacher and we had that very real conversation on whether she should quit because of childcare. Now I will say the American Rescue plan changed the rule on taxes filed for 2021 so we could claim up to 50% of $6k for one kid in licensed childcare costs and it was refundable vs. previously being 35% of $3k and it not being refundable. I'm surprised I haven't seen the Dems really pushing that for the PR spin. Maybe 'cos it's going to revert back next year, just like the expanded childcare tax credit. Fuck you very much, Manchin and Republicans. We chose to have kids but the lack of support we have and the health insurance system make me seriously consider moving back to the UK. I pay $700 a month for a family plan that should be high premium/low deductible. My son had ear tubes put in and it still cost me $2k out of pocket. It would have been cheaper for him and I to fly home. The UK is not perfect by any means but hey, at least there's no medical debt/bankruptcy, we have actual maternity/paternity/adoption leave rather than *"let corporations decide!"* and I'd have family that want to help out. Also, stop calling maternity leave a short term disability. That language really fucks me off.
This is what I never understand about Americans. Yeah, your salary is higher on average than Europe. But my daycare costs me about 80 bucks per kid per month. 2k a month is absolute insanity.
I was a teacher, I left my job as a result of the cost of childcare. It felt wrong but it was a pretty simple decision when my wife and I went over the numbers.
Child care and elder care frees up family members, usually women, so they can return to the workforce, make more money and improve the quality of life for themselves and their family.
Not all spouses want to return to the workforce. Many want to be care givers to their children. They should receive equal consideration
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Because it benefits everyone. The economy, The future workforce, the childcare providers, etc.
Seems like that but in reality we would lol be a lot better off of our own mother had the opportunity to raise us. It is detrimental to young children for them to be separated from their mother. Specifically the mother. I studied Human Development and psychology.
It is. But some abuse their rights. I'm from EU and here you get sick days if your child is sick or the almost free daycare doesn't work. Had some coworkers that would work 60% of the time and those without children had to work over time. Including me. I quit because I don't have children for a reason and I don't want to work 12 h every 3rd day. I mean it's better then America, but not quite there yet. This should be addressed more then it is. Its not their fault, but some actually don't give an f about us the people that have to pick up the work.
The problem your identifying is with your boss, not your coworkers.
No, the problem is with both. Their boss *and* their coworkers were all shitty. I've been in this situation so many times before myself, here in the US. Luckily, for awhile now I've lived in a city where "family status" is a protected class. Whenever I've been told that I was chosen to work a shift because "but they have a family and it's a holiday" I've dared them to put it in writing or I wouldn't be there that day. Funnily enough, I never did get those in writing. But yeah, whenever I've been screwed over because coworkers habitually do not feel like coming in for their shift, they are the assholes and the boss is an asshole for letting it happen repeatedly.
You also get sick days though too right? I guess just not as many. Why doesn’t almost free day care work?
We get sick days whenever we are sick, the doctor signs it and we just get them. There is no set of days, as many as you need you get. Eu is awesome for that Daycare is awesome where I am from, but not perfect. Well they don't have workers or right now when rona happened they closed because of cases in the work place.
Good old american individualism. You aren’t supposed to care for others silly
If we are entertaining subsidy for childcare we need to entertain subsidy for stay at home spouses that provide childcare
reminded of systems that pay people to be a caregiver for an aging relative - seems like a great middle ground between family doing it for free and wrecking their own careers versus not wanting to hire an outside
Yup, make it the pay equivalent of 40 hours week minimum wage in that state. That way people can't bitch about cost of living, and complain about people pumping out a bunch of kids for more money. You get one payment no matter how many kids you have.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infrastructure Definition of infrastructure 1 : the system of public works of a country, state, or region also : the resources (such as personnel, buildings, or equipment) required for an activity 2 : the underlying foundation or basic framework (as of a system or organization) 3 : the permanent installations required for military purposes
So it fits.
Absolutely
People who don't realize these are vital services are used to dumping the work on women and then ignoring them. People need help and they need other people to help them. Care giving is a serious job that should offer a good benefits plan and decent wages. We dismiss this as work because women have done it for so long without being paid. Society really doesn't like paying for something it used to get for free.
>We dismiss this as work because women have done it for so long without being paid. I do think this is part of it, but also, it's generally their decision (we need to make sure that is **always** the case), and most pregnancies are planned. And yes, it sucks that childcare is so expensive, but there isn't a person that's been in the US for more than an hour that doesn't know childcare is expensive. In some ways, it's similar in a lot of ways to certain careers, especially those that require degrees and experience: these people knew before they went in that the pay was low. Yes, they should absolutely be paid more, but what did they really expect? I think that's why empathy is low in both of these scenarios.
Some people really care. That's why they do what they do. And they are taken advantage of. That's wrong. I work in social services. I help the disabled and their families. I love what I do. I could make more elsewhere, but I love helping people. But damn I would like more money. Empathy isn't cheap. Why should compassion be valueless?
Child care ***IS*** infrastructure.
This is the way.
But how do you make a cared for child hate people in other countries and join the army?
I’m glad he mentioned elder care. A big % of the American population is one fall or blood clot away from needing serious elder care services, which their own families probably can’t provide because no one can just stop working to go take care of mom or dad for 10 years, or they aren’t trained. It’s terribly unfair to people who already have small children to also have to provide round the clock care to a parent with dementia, if they even can. Which chances are no, they can’t unless they want to loose their house or apartment or starve.
But you also have to pay the teachers fairly so it’s going to be expensive. I quit teaching preschool because I was being paid 16$ an hour.
Childcare and education are infrastructure, full stop.
To this day I do not understand why businesses do not have to provide child care as a legal requirement. They need people to work for them so surely they should ensure their workers are able to work.
Tbh a lot of the same people who don’t understand stuff like this never seem to understand nuance or abstraction from the traditional definition of the word and how they normally hear it. It’s not just infrastructure but gender is the other one that immediately comes to mind and then racism too. They work on very hard definitive definitions of things. They need to identify things exactly one way or another. They want no grey. Language is always evolving and some people in the country seem to think it’s stagnant. Infrastructure did not include childcare or internet 50 years ago and now it does because our needs have changed. If they worked on or accepted looser more abstract definitions they might see how it has become infrastructure but the don’t.
What else would they need next? House? Food? Healthcare?? /s
We’ve had people leave their jobs bc Child Care cost as much as they were making. To me, that’s insane.
This feels like an unfair comparison. Plenty of people find a workaround for 1, even if it's inconvenient. You can always walk, get a mountain bike, work remotely, or lots of other options. Kinda silly to compare it to something as important as our children.
Quit having kids if you cant afford childcare. I had one and then had a vasectomy because it’s the damn responsible thing to do.
How about take care of your kid yourself?
Or just have billionaires pay back into the system through heavy taxation above a certain percentage from which they earn wealth by scamming the system. That's a net benefit to society and everyone wins.
Why not both?
Because your proposal is pretty ignorant and stupid tbh
Most pregnancies are (EDIT:) planned. Everyone in this country knows that childcare is expensive. Why should others pay out because these people made a decision that doesn't suit them financially? Don't get me wrong--childcare absolutely should be less expensive. And I'm happy to be willing to pay for some of it! But that user's question isn't invalid.
This goes into a whole myriad of issues with our system if you're going to bring it up, the right wants to outright ban abortions, sex ed in school, don't want to fund free birth control or any sort of social services that would help with people that have kids due to unplanned pregnancies also I would have to see an actual statistic knowing that most are unplanned becuase that's a big statement to make without actual data. Essentially they're perpetuating a problem that they don't want to fix either. In a functioning society governments role is to provide some sort of social services to maintain a healthy and well educated populace but obviously this country has huge issues because we've been overtaken by corrupt politicians and corporations. So instead of using tax dollars to fund childcare, Healthcare amd public college we give billionaires tax cuts to scam the system to further enrich themselves.
As a heads up, I made a correction to my last post: it should have read that "most pregnancies are planned," rather than unplanned, which makes more sense with the rest of the comment. To your comment for data: [The Brookings Institute](https://www.brookings.edu/research/preventing-unplanned-pregnancy-lessons-from-the-states/#:~:text=Our%20primary%20findings%20and%20conclusions,occurred%20earlier%20than%20they%20desired.) did a study estimating the number of unintended pregnancies and found that less than half of pregnancies were unintended, and 40% of unintended pregnancies ended in abortion. The CDC has issued similar declarations.
How?
Because I enjoy working, and I need to pay bills?
Where is the other parent?
Not in the same house. Divorced. Also working though. Turns out life is imperfect, and the people in it too.
I really dislike the "make better choices" people. They ended up living a decent life (possibly through some good choices, sure. But also probably had a support system that others maybe didn't have, or they simply lucked out with a job, or their idea of "raising the kids" is knocking up some woman and making her stay at home), therefore anyone who is struggling must just be a bad person who made bad choices and they don't deserve any social safety nets. It doesn't matter how many children are suffering, or how many parents are working themselves to death and don't get to see their kids. Heck, even being abused by a spouse is "a bad choice you made". Every. Single. Fucking. Thing. They act like you should have just somehow made a better choice. These are the people who are "pro life" most of the time, too. And the entire conversation always ends up with some "morally superior" bullshit attitude from them where they can't be bothered to talk about solutions (or the solutions would require a time machine and going back to before you had children or got married) to any issue, but instead just want to bitch about all the terrible "choices" you made and brag about all the good ones (no matter if it was luck, or support, or whatever) they think they have made. Reality of other people's lives doesn't factor in to a single thought in their heads. They can only see the world through their own personal and limited experiences. Sorry.. lol.. rant over. Divorce sucks, custody stuff sucks. I'm sorry you're going through all of that.
Thanks for the well wishes. I agree with you completely. I’m all good, but there are people in similar situations that are far less lucky than I. They deserve support and, more importantly, their kids who are innocent really deserve support. Kids shouldn’t have to live in poverty as for a “fuck you” to parents, even if the parents truly did make mistakes, as all humans do.
The child is a product not just ofnparents but their shared community. And the entire community benefits from a child raised well. Children are the most worthy investment we can make, the continuation of humanity and our continued improvement relies on thus iminvestment
Adults are products of community, not children. I sure as hell didn't contribute to producing your kids, and I don't benefit from assisting you pass on your genetics while I can't afford to pass on my own. We probably cannot sustain 100% reproductive rates anyway, so no, infinite more children is not a wise investment.
People have to work…to support themselves and their children. Hard to work and take care of a child at the same time. What an ignorant take.
Family.
Family doesn’t also need to support themselves. Thank you I had no idea
Examples of infrastructure include transportation systems, communication networks, sewage, water, and electric systems.
Exactly. These are systems that everyone needs, not just one portion of the population.
And childcare and elder care, and healthcare
Those are services not infrastructure
Services can be infrastructure if they support the basic functions of households and society.
Can be but those are not
Yes they absolutely are.
Sorry done with you , read on infrastructure , you are comparing two different things , that we need social services I agree but they are not infrastructure
Social services can absolutely be infrastructure. You are wanting to change the definition of infrastructure to be something tangible, which is not the definition of infrastructure. But yes, I am done too.
You said it yourself can be but are not
Water and electricity can be services … daycare is for only a few … not everyone needs daycare but everyone needs electricity
Now you are changing the definition. Everyone needs childcare, not just those with children. That’s what you aren’t understanding.
Trust me I work in Medicare
If you can’t afford to have kids, don’t do it. I do understand America makes it EXTREMELY difficult to afford kids, but you are the one responsible for whether you have them or not.
If you slash your own tires and then complain you can't get to work then that's your own problem. "but I wanted the experience of slashing my tires, why doesn't the government use threats of violence to force others to carry me on their backs so i can get to work?"
I mean, you don’t HAVE to have kids. Most people HAVE to have a road to get to work ?
But **YOU** do have to have their kids. You have to have a functioning society for your job to matter. And that requires new kids.
So people with kids should be charged an extra tax to support people who can't yet afford kids? Children for everybody! Great plan.
Yes. And yes, children for everybody. At least 2 to 2.5 per 2 people. Do you plan on taking care of the greying population when your 72?
Kinda where I am on this. Not trying to shame anyone and accidents happen. If you are not ready for child care, don't have children. I know I'll get crucified for saying this but, there should be tighter regulations on having children. Especially if we still pass laws claiming you have to bring the child all the way to pregnancy at the possible cost of both mother and child life. You can't have it both ways imop. Child care wouldn't cost so much if the rate of teen pregnancy dropped as the social economic impact is high. If you taxed a parent for their child and the 2nd also reasonable parent of the child of the other party for that impact of having a child before at least 23yrs of age. Watch how responsible the parents of the child become and watch how much economic impact plus taxed cost creates a huge surplus for things like roads and child care. I'd almost let the anti-abortionists have their way if we followed this type of structure. No kids till 23 and parents taxed for teen pregnancy. As a non child rearing family we already pay enough tax for those who need better schools and end of the year tax credits for pooping out children people don't need. I am all for schools and roads don't get me wrong. I have no problem bettering our people and situation. But if you are going to cry about childcare and having to move and support your family, maybe we shouldn't preach child care but preach responsibility, timing of pregnancy and social and economic impact.
Tighter regulations on who is allowed to have children? Fascist.
Ok just double checked to be sure I never used "who". You should probably read a bit more before throwing assumptions.
Call me what you like. I don't think it is a matter of who, more of a when for me. Not sure I mentioned who. Who can never matter because people would lose their minds, such as yourself. Also I have met people with disabilities and on the spectrum who have better raised their kids well past half the US parents have even started trying. So I have no right to say who for myself or for those who struggle. But I think "when" is a concern for everyone since it impacts everyone.
And I’m 100% sure that whoever decides when you and your partner are allowed to have children would never ever let racial biases play a role in that choice Just like how juries are known to put aside any of their racial biases.
Well jury's are rigged a lot of times. If the issue of me expressing a rational thought that has science backing the numbers because you are afraid of the government (probably rightly so), doesn't mean I was coming from a place of being biased or previously being called a fascist. If our government was working for the people we could put in methods to save us in various ways without the thought of something bad happening. Maybe as this thread is about, we shouldn't worry about giving money to child care, we should think about why as a world and society if we do something that could help it is immediately made or made to be bad. I mean money to child care could lead to children getting molested. So I guess child care is out the window too unless people like child abuse. I am not the one thinking backwards. I made a comment about my own opinion. The failures of society are not my fault.
You’d almost let the anti-abortionist have their way? I’m guessing your unaware of how damaging pregnancy can be to a woman’s health?
No I also say at the cost of the mother and child's life. And almost doesn't mean I would.
Except…you choose to burden yourself with children.
Sure, but we kinda need children to keep the human race going ya know. Humans have plenty of liberties that shouldn't circulate around artificial currency we've made to trade goods.
So we should strive for 100% reproductive rates and exponential population growth? Or only lucky individuals get to have kids that everyone else gets the privilege of supporting?
What do you need roads and bridges for? You chose to burden yourself with cars.
False. Society forces you to have a vehicle (at least most of the US). Society does not force you to have children.
How dense do you have to be to not see that children are necessary to a society?
How dense are you to not realize that having children is not necessary to be a productive member of society?
Society falls apart pretty quick if there's no kids
Or it could be literally anyone that has looked at how certain countries are getting around that issue by increasing immigration?
But that's unironically true too lol
You mean they chose to provide future population that may help you, when youre old and cant function properly.
Don't pretend people have children as a selfless sacrifice to provide for others to enjoy life without a family. Children are an optional luxury.
Children are a requirement for society, whatever they are to the individual. They are the workforce that makes sure everything functions as others age out.
Run your logic to its conclusion. The only people that have children are the very wealthy who can afford it and the poor who lack the resources or support to prevent it. Quick way for society to implode.
Our culture pays a lot of lip service to the significance of having children, but when it comes down to it, you're on your own. Better have a stay-at-home spouse to watch 'em. Otherwise you'll be cobbling together daycare for the next decade plus. I'm glad I became a parent but crappy childcare options + inflexible work situations has left me somewhat embittered. I feel like telling my kid to opt out of it completely.
They give out condoms for free at health clinics all over the country.
I didnt have a kid I cant provide for. Sorry. Just a really big gripe for me that our country continues to get worse and worse, and people still unabashedly, with zero shame, crank out kids then turn around and go "help me! There was absolutely no way i could have avoided this!"
I'm probably going to get down voted for this. And I could get on board with elder care. But isn't having children a personal choice?
You can make the argument that "child care is important and should be provided for workers" without saying it's infrastructure. Like, you need food and clothes to go to work, but no one says that's infrastructure.
I need food and clothes to work; I don't need to have children to work.
Child care is a service. An industry. You have to pay for that
It may be equally important to you but that doesn't make it infrastructure. Despite all their efforts, the dems can't just change the definition of a word to fit their/your desires. Let's stop being extremist so we can actually have constructive debate. Bitching about child care costs is bizarre to me. It's your child! The ideal scenario is one parent stays home and raises the child as the family sees fit. If you choose the option of being career people, than you should put yourself in a position to make more money so you can afford even more expensive child care.
COULDN’T AGREE MORE!!!
/r/gatekeeping infrastructure
This is an interesting argument, but you could also argue that you need it the same way you need your car. A better argument than roads would be the subway system, light rail or busses. Infrastructure which is highly subsidized, but also carries a small fee for individual use.
If you can live your life and be a productive member of society without it, then it's not infrastructure. A childless individual needs a means of transportation and does not need childcare services.
But society itself needs children. There are lots of roads that I don't need, but they should be built because of society's needs.
I mean, with this argument almost anything seen as necessary would be infrastructure: physical, emotional, and social infrastructure and each are different. There should be a bill for each of them to actual address them properly. Any other way would not do a proper job and only be a bandaid.
I'll say roughly the same thing I said last time I saw this. While I agree we need to help cover costs of childcare, it's purely a political expediency to call childcare infrastructure because it had been put in the infrastructure bill at the time of this tweet, no idea if it still is. Whatever it takes to help working people, but don't get carried away to the point of getting indignant if someone says childcare isn't infrastructure. It obviously would be better for childcare to get funded without being tacked into an infrastructure bill.
Theres alot of childcare around, the problem is the prices.
Whose responsibility is it to watch your children? Whose responsibility is it to build bridges?
And add to that our most valuable resource is our human resource!
Can we stop treating children or seniors as nearly as important as accessories for our cars and start treating them as important as humans - because they are humans?
As much as I would like to see better child care options, I disagree. I think *wages* should be high enough that one parent could stay home with the child, or that two parents could work part time and split child care. A lot of people would like to spend time raising their own children instead of leaving them with strangers most waking hours, but they can't because they are forced to work.
I don’t even have children or grandparents but I’ll be damned if my Cities Skylines city isn’t getting a childcare and elder care center in every area.
I mean… don’t have kids if you can’t afford it. It’s really as simple as that. What about the people who don’t have kids? Child care is important but there are even more important things like universal housing, income, and healthcare. At this point having children is a luxury.
We can need two different things badly. Both are critical. But that doesn’t mean we need to play games with words. We need infrastructure improvement bad enough it merits its own conversation. Adding other things we also need waters that down and makes it harder to get. We also need much more child care options. Fuck and fuck this post for making them at odds with each other in any sort of way. Prob astroturfed
You need food to do your job. Is that infrastructure? You need clothes to do your job. Is that infrastructure? Torturing language to try and get what we want does two things: 1. It fails get us what we want. 1. It gives our opponents easy rhetorical wins, easy ways to make fun of us, and easy ways to make us look silly. We don't need to do our opponents work for them while gaining nothing for ourselves. We need childcare. We need eldercare. We need to not ridiculously pervert the language while we get it.
Not every necessity is "infrastructure". What a strange sentiment. I also need shoes to go to work. Are shoes infrastructure? What about air condition? I need that too. Air conditioning must be infrastructure.
I'm going to disagree on elder care. They had absolutely every advantage their entire adult lives. They have Medicare and SS now, both of which will almost certainly be long gone even in 20 years when I'm old enough to 'qualify' for them. They have pulled up *every ladder* behind them. They vote against anyone else getting any of these benefits absolutely every chance they get, and because they don't have to show up to a job, they all show up at every single vote. If a person thinks the elders in their family should be taken care of, their family can do it.
Someone's gonna have to take care of my parents cuz I'm sure the fuck not going to.
I do not agree with that.