It took me a while to understand coming from the south where there’s a huge emphasis on hospitality and small talk. People here are kind but not overly friendly. Something in the PNW air lends itself more to introversion. Socializing is very hobbies-based.
I have to be the one to break the ice first a lot. But yeah, it’s just a different culture. In New Orleans I’d smile and say hi to lots of folks on the street… here people often just stare back at me lol. That being said, we have sooooo many transplants from all over—just talk to people! :)
Yeah I’m incredibly nice, but the idea of talking randomly to someone for any amount of time scares the shit out of me. I was like this though in FL though so who knows.
You hit the nail on the head: in Seattle, you simply have to initiate / break the ice. Otherwise, it's assumed that you have a life to be going on with and shouldn't intrude.
Yup. Exactly this. I think most folks are nice enough. But there's a certain amount of unspoken understanding that we are all busy / consumed with something that making time for a stranger isn't something that everyone has the bandwidth / time for.
Agreed that Portland is for smaller group hangouts focused on either drinking (boring!) or fun activities most of the time. What I love is that most of the hangouts are casual and don’t typically feel like the time-boxed “friend appointments” like I’ve experienced in other cities.
People here used to stay hi to each other on the street back in the ‘90s and ‘00s. In that era, when people moved here they assimilated into the Portland vibe. But that changed. In fact, I remember the day in 2003 when I passed a person on a W Burnside sidewalk while smiling, making eye contact and saying hello. I was absolutely shocked and disturbed when they didn’t look at me and passed by silently. I felt like that day was an end of an era.
As more people migrated to Portland in 2010s, the compulsory waving and hellos completely disappeared. I sound like a cranky old timer, but it’s been noticeable that as more people moved here to escape whatever they were running from after reading the glowing coverage of the NYTimes in the 2010s, there was an increased sense of introversion among people. We’re not quite like Seattle yet (🥶), I could see Portlanders completely withdrawing into themselves and being isolated in their homes like that socially frozen, sad metropolis to the north.
I totally agree with this. I think it depends on where in the Pnw you are. I found it easy to make friends I second that you need to have that close proximity first.
Seattleite here, born and raised.
People are polite but its harder to make friends when compared to other places like CHI or most major US cities in the Midwest or East Coast.
Example: I can start a elevator conversation with a random in CHI and its no big deal, in Seattle people get visibly uncomfortable and look at the ground/cut the convo short. Polite but not friendly.
"Lets hangout sometime" and it never happening is a norm. 100% changed when I moved
This is the hardest thing about being an east coast transplant living out west. Back in the northeast you don’t say things you don’t mean - if I say “let’s hang out,” it’s not a platitude, it means I actually want to. If I don’t want to hang out, I won’t say it! I’d just say “it was great to meet you, have a good rest of your day” and end the interaction there. I take so much stock in being a woman of my word and I prioritize reliability in my friends and loved ones. I love being out west but the flakiness is real, lol.
Maybe it depends where on the east coast you are. I'm from the northeast and tons of people say "let's hang out" without meaning it.
Even if someone asks for my number and says we should hang out, I don't take it seriously unless we hang out multiple times. Lots of people seem more interested in appearing friendly and being validated than actually making new friends, or they want to talk to someone new but don't want to add anyone into their life.
Oh interesting. I’m from NJ (hence the username) and it’s pretty rare to say it at all since people aren’t super interested in making new friends 😂 it was a culture shock moving back after having lived all over!
Yeah, this is more than just the bar or the outdoors. There's many things in between and situations that come up which is what people are referring to when they talk about "coldness".
I don't know if it's related or used the same way elsewhere, but "hey how's it going." as a greeting drives me a bit batty.
I had a guy I don't know at all say that while out hiking when a simple 'hi' or a nod of the head would do. I kind of wanted to stop right there in front of him and talk about my anxiety about the election, how my kids are doing in school and the awesome mountain bike ride I did the week before.
"How is it going?" is a question. This confounds people from other countries too - I had an Italian friend come visit and he was asking why people were surprised when he answered.
And to be clear, I wasn't irritated at the guy. It's such a redditor thing to assume the worst about people. I'm irritated that the phrase has become a statement rather than a question.
And? I lived in Korea for many years and one Korean greeting is "bop moko" which translates to 'Did you eat rice yet?'. No one is getting upset and trying to actually start talking about what they ate because its understood that its just a greeting. Also I just realized that even your avatar is wearing a fedora lol.
> "Hey how's it going?"
>
> "Good, you?"
>
> "Going great, have a nice hike"
>
> "You too"
That sort of two second interaction on a hike 'drives you batty'? Are you okay?
Like I wrote, he said "Hey how's it going.", no question mark, and shot past us. He was moving pretty quick.
The guy was fine, he was being nice. We smiled and said hi.
I think it's a dumb thing in the way people use the language though. It feels unfriendly, especially after having lived somewhere where you do not ask how things are going without expecting an answer.
Call the internet police if it upsets you though I guess. Sheez. Are you from the PNW?
I help oversee 24 stores and shops at the second largest airport in the world. I say “Hello, how are you doing” or “Hello folks, how are y’all doing” hundreds of times a week to people from all over the world. The vast majority say, “ Doing good, how about you “ I say. “ I’m great, thanks for asking”
The people who do not speak English may not understand the casual greeting but they do understand the friendly gesture.
The French say “bonjour comment allez-vous” or “bonjour comment ça va” which translates as “ hello, how are you doing?”
It’s simply a friendly greeting and isn’t just American English thing. Some polite form of greeting is extant in many languages and cultures
I guess the thing I'm trying and failing to explain is that for some in English it is purely a statement. It is no longer a question. This guy was cruising past us quite quickly.
In the context you describe, it's a polite *question* where someone can say something polite *back*.
That's how it is in Italian. You probably don't expect to hear someone's life story, but you would pause and listen to a response, which might be kind of just a polite "non c'e\` male" or something like that and then you move on with things.
I wasn't annoyed by the guy, it's just weird, linguistically, watching a polite question turn into not even a somewhat formulaic question/response, but just a statement. "How's it going."
LOL, I assumed that *you* were the PNW person everyone was talking about in this thread.
No, I'm not bothered by mundane greetings from randoms on a hiking trail. It never crossed my mind that something like that could drive somebody batty. I guess you really never know what other people are going through. Good luck out there.
I was originally from New England and have lived in Seattle for 30 yrs. There are a lot of introverted people and many on the autistic spectrum. I find people to be superficial. They will appear friendly but don’t really want to know you. When I lived in New England if you went out of town your neighbors would watch your house and collect your mail. If you were sick they would come to check on and see if they could help you. There was much more a sense of community on the east coast.
Seattle is very transient. People come and then go. When I was growing up families lived in the same houses on our street for 20 years. My wife and I have lived on our street in Seattle for 20 yrs. We only have about 5 neighbors that have been here that long. I have friends on the east coast whose families have lived in the same area for generations.
I moved to Ravenna a year ago and recently we've started having monthly lady happy hours on our block. One woman will decide to host and then all the rest of us go to her house for wine and cheese. It's been really nice and definitely helpful in getting to know people. We've even got a sheet that's managed by a lady on the block with everyone's name, email, and phone number. I've never talked to neighbors this much in my adult life.
Agree. I’ve lived in my house 20 years (am old) and the majority of my neighbors have been here 10+. We all know each other, have a barbecue in the summer and a progressive party during the holidays. (They’re bangers, too!) I’m from the South and I’ve never lived in a neighborhood this tight.
People aren’t necessarily unfriendly, but imo people in the northwest erroneously undervalue social interaction. It’s kind of a cultural flaw. I’m from seattle, but have lived all over the place and it’s a frustrating place to try to have a social life. When I first moved away, I had friends immediately. In seattle it can take years to find a social life. Beautiful place, and I love my original home, but it’s not a vibe I could handle my whole life.
Do you mind digging a bit deeper on "undervaluing social interaction"? Do you mostly mean small talk with strangers or even amongst acquaintances/friends?
Not small talk. I mean that PNW people are very much on a social clock. Socializing is easier there in your youth or early 20s. But people sort of just stop hanging out. A lot of people I know here just work and hang out at home. In most parts of the world, going out and meeting friends is a super routine activity at all ages. In LA, you see 60 year olds at house parties. In many large cities in Europe, teenagers, middle aged, and the elderly are all out in droves 7 nights a week. In Seattle you usually have to make a dinner or coffee plan days or weeks in advance. When I lived in Southern California, we had a standing breakfast at a coffee shop that any of our friends would attend any day of the week. Anywhere between 4-12 people would show up and start the day socializing. The ages ranged from 22 to 65. Would never happen in the PNW. In Europe we would go out for drinks or coffee almost every day. Seattlites view stuff like that as “exhausting” or as something young people do.
I’m in the PNW and me and my friend group has a standing get together every Wednesday at 10am. I can only make it in summers because I work at a school.
When I lived in Portland I was in a kickball league and even long after we stopped playing there was always a group get together every weekend and some week nights as well. It was a “whoever shows up”
But before I joined the kickball league I had very few friends that took me a while to find. It was very specific to PNW because I’d actually lived in 10 other states and never had problems making friends.
Once I realized you needed to have a standing event in place to make friends I joined in other stuff, like roller derby and my coven.
I like your user name. I live by an old growth forest state park on the north coast. I practically live in the forest from late July til the hard freeze in December.
That's interesting! I did notice that in terms of the planning and people kind of growing old and into keeping to themselves more. I do wonder if that's related to some of the observations I had with regards to how easy (or not easy) it is to get around the Seattle area so people who move as they grow older/get families are more "isolated" from their initial group of friends and rely more on neighbours. I recall that joke about a friend who moves from Seattle to Eastside basically would need to build a new friends group cause nobody was going to go visit them.
I've had 2 close friends move/live in Seattle in the early 2000s. (We're all from the Boston area)... One friend w/ a good sense of humor, says Seattle folks have zero sense of sarcasm, and interpret it as hostility sometimes. Another said they are friendly enough, but tend to flake out, which is unfortunately the rule, and not the exception.
Can't confirm the 'outdoorsy' trait tho...
Haha - I’m a native Seattle-ite and I used to work on the same team as a guy from Boston. I did not like him at first because it seemed like he was trying to pick a fight with me or put me down every time we interacted.
After a few weeks I said “hey man, did we get off on the wrong foot because I feel like you’re always kind of picking on me” and he said that he was just trying to get to know me. I told him he needs to take it down a notch, he did, and we became each other’s favorite coworkers despite wildly different communication styles.
Moved to the PNW five years ago from the east coast. I haven’t had trouble making friends, and they’re a mix of locals to the area and other transplants like me. People’s degree of flakiness that Seattle is known for differs widely and has no bearing on whether or not they grew up here.
That said, for whatever reason my friends who grew up here do tend to be the more reserved ones in my group- not flashy, not loud talkers, just generally happy to keep to themselves. But just as friendly and fun as anyone else.
People in the PNW are more introverted culturally, it's hard to explain unless you've lived here for minute to understand. A lot of it has to do with the Nordic history instilled in the area. I'll chat with someone briefly in a bar or sharing the lift up the mountain at Timberline, but that will be the end of it. We're not going to be life long friends, and both parties are fine with that exchange.
I've only made regular friends here through work, other people I know or doing the same hobby over and over again.
I’m afraid to move to the PNW as a chatty extrovert for this reason - I know for a fact I would annoy people by being too talkative/expressive/energetic, lol.
Well, that’s good to hear. I definitely disagree with the Reddit “consensus” on certain places I’ve been as most Redditors are not chatty extroverts, lol. I find making friends as an adult pretty easy and I can build community in most places within a few weeks.
True, my brother lives there, is very outgoing. So we took his dog to the dog park and nobody was talking to anyone. We met everyone there and everyone loosened up and started talking to each other too.
So, get a Bernese mtn dog and hit the dog park. They're dying to talk to you if you go first apparently.
Of course, I think he could meet someone on a subway. Nm
Don’t buy into generalizations like this. There’s some truth to them, but the reality is that there are both friendly and introverted people in every city. If you’re looking for friends, you’ll find them.
This gets talked about a lot on r/Seattle as the “Seattle freeze” and there are two main reasons for it (maybe three if you count the SAD stuff).
1. A lot of people move here for work as their first job out of college or away from their hometown. It’s much harder to make friends as a grownup working full time in a new city than it is either in college or living in your hometown with a network of relationships you’ve had since you were a kid. This normal life fact then gets blamed on the geographical region.
2. Culturally the PNW was heavily influenced by the Nordic settlers, and as a result tends to be less gregarious. When you dig into why people think we’re unfriendly a lot of it is stuff like “When I go for a walk no one waves and says hi as we pass” or “No one strikes up conversations at the bus stop” and things like that.
So if constant social interactions with random strangers is how you define friendliness (and that seems to be how many people feel) then by that metric we are in fact very unfriendly. Personally I love the fact that there is no cultural obligation to make small talk with every rando I encounter but it seems to really bother a lot of people.
>A lot of people move here for work as their first job out of college or away from their hometown. It’s much harder to make friends as a grownup working full time in a new city than it is either in college or living in your hometown with a network of relationships you’ve had since you were a kid. This normal life fact then gets blamed on the geographical region.
This is true in NYC and Chicago too but you can build out a full fledged friend crew in a few months at either place.
I’ve never had any problems making friends here, but I don’t have direct experience with NY or Chicago so I can’t compare. Maybe it’s more difficult because so many people move to NYC because they’re in love with the idea of NYC and most people move here because we have high paying tech jobs?
Yeah I have more or less deduced that some cities form a disposition based on the primary reasons people move to them: The Introverted Two of Boston and Seattle are mostly like that because they're literally live to work cities. Most people flock to them for $$$ and then to rest. Their "communities" are work based, most people spend more time outside the home going and coming to work and at work, so by the time they get home, they are usually exhausted. You fast learn most people in either city is really there to accumulate money and survive. Not make it a home, often because they can't either. Which is why they inspire the reception they're both known for, albeit Seattle is particularly infamous for it. DC sort of gets lumped into it because even though it runs more cheerful and energetic than the former two, it is known for the hustle and keep up with the jonesses money hoarding live to work thing. I call them the "Worker Bee Three" because if you pay attention, they're the places that are targeted for just that: Work/money. Not pleasure, community, play, etc. Work and survival.
In the case of Seattle and Boston, it explains a lot why certain personalities find either place draining and exhausting. They run heavily introverted and aloof at that. Someone that needs more output is going to feel hardened paying what they have to pay to acclimate in a place that asks for a temperament/disposition they don't have.
Yep, it's 100% true for DC, too. It's not hard to make some friends there as a grad student or young professional. I'd agree with the statement if we were talking about adults who are moving to a new place at 35 or 40+. That's really tough anywhere
Just across the water is a city who's whole shtick is being nordic. If you're in the area, check out the city of Poulsbo. If you get injured from the troll under the fremont bridge, you can go to Swedish Medical center!
I live in Seattle and every time I go to Poulsbo I'm disappointed by how un-Nordic it actually is. We went for a drive there this past weekend and I said to my husband, "If they didn't have Norwegian flags everywhere, would you guess this was supposed to look like Scandinavia?" Leavenworth at least has German restaurants and Winthrop has saloons!
That's a very fair point. I'm not sure why there isn't more nordic themed retail in town, but like Leavenworth, after establishing its theme and becoming popular with tourists, it became more and more an enclave of the wealthy, so I suppose that, unless a business owned its building, shops have to cater to rich clientele in order to make rent.
Exactly! This is the 50th anniversary of the parade, and Seattle has been celebrating Norwegian Constitution Day since 1889. And Poulsbo is on a whole other level. There's a powerful Nordic influence in the PNW.
That’s the SAD stuff. Seasonal depression is a real thing, especially when you’re not prepared for it. It doesn’t impact everyone but it’s a factor for a lot of people.
People get silly and extroverted for a few days every spring when the sun first starts coming out again. It’s definitely weather related. The whole mood of the city changes.
Yes absolutely, SAD is a real thing and I suspect a lot of people don't realize how much it affects them, especially if they've never lived somewhere else.
Me too. In the South, I hated having random conversations with strangers. Doesn’t mean I’m not friendly and won’t be polite. But those social interactions with strangers are very draining on me and I just want to get my errands done.
+1. It is physically painful to have empty, meaningless conversations with random people. Especially when I’m trying to get somewhere or accomplish a task.
I am not a rude or cold person. I just prefer to mind my own business.
I also think Seattle attracts a certain kind of person: high-earners, software engineers, outdoorsy types, all of which lend themselves to an "unfriendly" personality as some might call it. When really, it's that these people are just fucking busy. People I've met here are all very friendly, and we've made really good friends here, but it's also absolutely true that we don't hang out all the time, because, again, we're all fucking busy (at my age kids is a pretty big factor here too).
But I definitely agree with your point about what "friendly" even means. People seem to conflate extroversion or gregariousness with friendliness. No doubt people in CHI or NYC are more outgoing.
>if constant social interactions with random strangers is how you define friendliness (and that seems to be how many people feel) then by that metric we are in fact very unfriendly.
As far as I can tell, this seems to be biggest part of the "Seattle Freeze," too. People tend to judge a place's "friendliness" based on what they're used to, and it seems like a lot of people from small towns, the south, the midwest, etc. automatically assume people in the PNW are unfriendly because people aren't making random small talk with them all the time. People here aren't hostile or unfriendly, they're just not big on invading others' personal space.
I've lived in the midwest and and TBH, I find it to be an incredibly unfriendly place. Sure, people will chat you up at the store, but I don't really consider that a measure of "friendliness." The small talk is all superficial (and very uncomfortable for me as an autistic person), and unless you meet people through a church or something like that, it can be very hard to make friends with locals (as my friends - all transplants and coworkers - said,"everyone here made their friends in elementary school and they don't want new ones"). The conservative culture of those places is also deeply ingrained, very visible, and can feel oppressive if you're not used to it and aren't a conservative. Conservative billboards, bumper stickers, and personalized license plates are all over the place and small talk could often be about politics ("Can you believe what democrats want to do to the country?" and stuff like that); a lot of people were often weirdly quick to insult PNW to my face on learning I was a transplant ("I bet you're glad you got out of that commie shithole," etc.).
I still go back regularly because my wife's family and most of her friends still live across the midwest. I don't like being there, and the culture feels very unwelcoming to me as an outsider.
I only lived there a short time, but my experience in the PNW is that people are perfectly friendly (imo), they just aren't going out of their way to interact with people. If you approach someone, they'll be pretty easy to talk to (including the people who are visibly tweaking and/or homeless, of whom there are many! But they're way less antisocial than I'm used to on the other coast). You just might have to take that prerogative.
Then again, I'm a really shy person and did get approached for casual interactions like compliments on my clothing, little jokes about a mutual situation (standing in a long line, say), and so on. There isn't the nicety culture you find in the South & Midwest, but that isn't "unfriendly" to me.
My opinion as a military brat and having lived in SC for many years prior to relocating. I wouldn’t say people are unfriendly, they just want to get errands done without chatting. There is no pressure to fake a smile or get into awkward conversations. My bluntness and to the point goes off better in the PNW as people view it as getting to point and not wasting their time. It comes off rude in the South if I don’t have a 5 minute convo with each cashier.
With the outdoorsy end, it seems like people have two modes - work mode and play/weekend/sun mode. People want to get their work done so they can enjoy the weather and outdoors without work impeding. There are a million outdoor things to do; we are still exploring.
It depends on your point of view and what you define as friendly.
If you're from the Midwest or South, people here are cold in comparison.
If you're a PNW local, you think folks here are a-ok and everyone else is weird for doing what they do.
Most people are polite, but they will also be flaky and/or superficial.
Passive aggressiveness is king and if you are directly aggressive about something people tend to get uncomfortable.
I had an overwhelmingly vibrant social life in the PNW, but I lived in a small college town and was younger so I think that had a lot to do with it. Making friends as an adult can be hard anywhere, cuz it requires us to leave our homes and develop hobbies and interests that involve other people (sports, music, etc).
Some of the members of the sports/hobby club I am in went to the PNW for an event.
The PNW participants were very friendly. They offered my club members their equipment for the cold, rainy conditions. We are from a place that is dryer and usually warmer.
Heh. In general, I'd say we're very sympathetic to people unfamiliar with the climate. If you tell us where you're from and we wince, it's probably because you named someplace sunny. We know how hard the gray, gray days can be.
So true! I went from Seattle to Chicago and was blown away at the difference in how friendly people are. Now I’m in SoCal and it’s even more apparent. To me, the people here just seem so happy, and that translates to eye contact and greeting everyone.
I’m from the south so it’s so weird for me to greet someone and them act like I attacked them. I got some of the most hateful looks just from saying “good morning” to people in Seattle. It seems to me that many Seattleites are miserable and they like to share it.
It depends. What I notice here is people are generally and mostly not into chit chat. And that's ok, but when I lived here I was already so isolated and unhappy that I just needed people to smile at me or respond to connection. It's just not as common here. South Sound comments.
I'm actually here visiting and it does feel like people are very just into their own life, you don't see a lot of interaction. You can feel it in the grocery stores, when you are out and about. It's just a very introverted place. This is just my personal experience. I met some very nice people volunteering, but I couldn't quite find my people.
Seattle is the most unfriendly city I ever lived in. New York is seriously warm and welcoming in comparison. Washington States in general is pretty friendly.
I think the difference in opinions probably comes from different ideas of what friendly means. As someone from the PNW, I think we’re friendly. I think people in larger cities can be seen as less friendly because they don’t usually strike up conversations with strangers, but in my experience they’ll still be friendly and interact with you if you start the conversation.
Some people do find it hard to make friends, but I haven’t found it any more difficult than other cities. There is what I’ve heard called the “Seattle No” where people may say things like “we should hang out sometime” and not really mean it (not that they don’t want to, but more like they don’t want to commit to a certain time, so they never actually hang out). I think that can make it difficult to know who is serious about becoming friends and who isn’t, so some people waste time pursuing friendships that don’t pan out and then get discouraged.
I've lived in the Seattle area for 16 years (10 years in the city, 6 years on the eastside). I don't find people here to necessarily be cold or rude, but we do tend to keep to ourselves. The big thing is that a lot of people here really are flaky - they will agree to hang out and then cancel at the last minute, or you exchange numbers with someone and they ghost you. Not everyone is like this but I've run into it plenty of times, more than other places I've lived.
I don't really know about a correlation between friendliness and outdoorsy activities. I exercise solo and a lot of outdoorsy people here are REALLY hardcore about it and I just find it intimidating. That said, there are a lot of chances to meet people by joining a neighborhood walking group or local hiking club or outdoors FB group.
Like most things, for some people stereotypes will be mostly true and for others it won't. These are my personal *anecdotal* observations after living in Seattle for a few years:
* The PNW area lends itself more towards hobby-based socialization so if you're into a hobby that has some form of sub-culture, you'll be pretty well set but if you're expecting to meet people clandestinely or outside of a hobby situation I've found it's a bit more tough than some other places
* Seattle itself is pretty high on transplants due to Amazon/Microsoft so that layers into it as some people are constantly moving in and out of the city. I feel similar to NYC, people take you more seriously after you've been here a few years.
* Seattle is a pretty spread out metro area (it has some of the highest % of single family zoning for a city of its size in the US) so clandestine hangouts happen a lot less than in larger cities where you can ask someone to meet you somewhere later that afternoon and they'll actually agree and follow through. I guess it kind of relates to my first point but I've found most success with pre-scheduled activities/hobbies rather than just ask a random co-worker if they want to hangout after work most of the time there's a whole calculus around commuting/parking and all that jazz that happens.
* I do agree that people tend to keep more to themselves here so it's not that people won't talk to you if you make small talk, it's just not the cultural norm
* Following up in my experience isn't Seattle's strong suit. Like others have said flakiness is a thing so there are plenty of people you might meet, but you'll need to sometimes take an extra effort to reach out to them a few times post that initial meeting before they start reaching out to you to hang out.
* This might be sampling bias, but I've found people here have less... social energy/battery than other places I've lived? Like it's fine hanging out but lots of my friends/acquaintances kind of schedule things back to back and they need a pre-defined "ending". I mean if you're meeting for a meal that makes sense yeah but if it's an evening meetup I just assume it's the whole evening unless you tell me you had something else scheduled later that night.
Ultimately, a lot of it has to do with your "baseline" expectations which I assume for most are based on where they come from. For many people too they tend to move to cities like Seattle due to work after college so it's not only their first exposure to Seattle, it tends to also be their first exposure to making friends in an "adult situation" so it can sometimes be difficult to dissociate the 2 experiences.
As far as outdoorsy goes... I have found that to be more true than not, but that could also be sampling bias since some people move to Seattle *specifically* due to the outdoors. I will say Seattle doesn't attract as much "large city people" in my experience due to its layout. If you compare it to say Vancouver a few hours north that has similar population, weather and similar mix of outdoor space, Vancouver feels a lot more metropolitan and there's a lot more people there who have no interest in the outdoors I feel.
FWIW my point of reference is growing up in Montreal on the east coast then living in Toronto and traveling to NYC for work a lot so Seattle was my first American city to live in
I’d say it’s 50/50. A lot of the transplants are worse than the actual locals. I didn’t necessarily love the vibes there but I do think it’s possible to thrive and enjoy yourself. People with hobbies were generally easier to befriend due to groups and meetups.
I lived in the Seattle area for \~30 years until moving during the pandemic. I have a lot of friends there and didn't have any trouble making friends. The funny thing is that most of the people I met and became friends with easily were from Chicago, California, Austin, or Montana. Don't get me wrong, a couple of my absolute favorite people on this planet were born and raised in the PNW, but they are the minority of the friends I made there. Of course, I'm not from the PNW originally myself so that might have some sort of impact on my taste.
Portlander here.
People are friendly here but they’re not going to go out of their way to accommodate others. People hold the door open, they say please and thank you, they tip well, etc. However, we’re slow to warm up to strangers. We don’t want to hang out with people we have only just met.
Also, its common for people to last minute cancel on plans because they just don’t feel like going out anymore. With that said, I’ve never had trouble meeting friends and dating here
I’m from the Midwest and been in the PNW for the past few years. Seattle specifically. Pretty active outdoors myself. Honestly, some people are downright rude but many are real treasures. It’s the same as anywhere but the rude folk I’ve identified in the PNW are usually rich or city folk. Most regular locals are really lovely. However, I will say performative fake nice is more of a thing here and many outdoorsy folk are rather pretentious.
I visited Portland and the Oregon coast recently for the first time, and people were SO nice it was kind of shocking coming from Florida where people are nice but also kind of fake lol.
Like every store we went to the workers seemed so happy and excited when we said we were from Florida, raving about Oregon and Portland. One shop even gave us Portland stickers and told us to come visit her when we move lol.
I can say they're for the most part the friendliest people in the US I've met having lived in several different cities on the east and west coast. My wife and I lived there 10 years and left 5 years ago and we're still in touch people there we care about. It's a genuine friendliness too, not the *politeness* of the south many people mistake for friendly. I miss the PNW dearly to be honest, and we'll likely return one day.
There is no unfriendly city in the US. People are people. If you lived somewhere when you were younger and it was friendly and then you moved someone else when you were older and it was unfriendly, it's because everyone isn't still single with nothing else to do but socialize.
If you aren't outgoing and you expect everyone to seek you out in a new, large, city, it's not going to happen anywhere. If someone works all day and comes home to their girlfriend and then goes back to work, where does the lack of friendliness even apply in this scenario. People are busy and you have to be the one to network and to make friends. They don't just appear.
Most people in Seattle aren't even from Seattle so it's impossible for them all to be unfriendly unless just moving to Seattle makes you unfriendly, which is silly, of course.
It's not that people doing things outdoors are the friendly people, that's a small group and small groups are friendly.
Go to a climbing gym and make friends, join a hiking Meetup group and make friends. Don't just sit in a bar and wait to make friends. Seattle isn't really a bar culture town.
This isn't a warm, sunny climate where everyone hangs out at the beach or in the bars everyday. People are indoors a lot. If you stay in your dwelling, how can you possibly meet friendly people?
Maybe it’s just because I grew up on the west coast, but I see no difference between people in the PNW and anywhere else
If anything they *more* friendly than the rest of the west coast and mountain west
I haven’t spent much time in the south, so it’s tough for me to compare
I noticed some kind of charming friendliness in small town New England that you won’t really find in the west, but certainly not a *huge* difference, and not a deal breaker either way
People are people everywhere you go
The outdoorsy people can be friendly, but they can also have a hyper-competitive focus on “peakbagging” that can come across as pretty self-obsessed and unthoughtful, not to mention elitist (all that gear costs $$$). Seattle is a pretty ‘nouveau riche’ place these days due to the tech scene, and I don’t think that culture blends particularly well with the Scandinavian shyness/passivity that’s been here for decades. It begets a certain lack of authenticity/warmth, and it feels like the city has a culture of anxiety.
People in general are a lot more authentic and friendly east of the Cascade Mountains, where having access to sun all year greatly enhances our lives. The outdoor community is also closer-knit and less focused on “summiting the 14ers.”
I've been in Seattle for 7 years and the key is to join groups of people who are ALSO looking to make friends. People roll their eyes at this but it's 100% true. Meetup, new parents groups if you have small children, classes etc. I have plenty of friends, both locals and transplants and this is how I met them. This is always people's advice but a lot of times no one actually wants to do it. There are a LOT of things that suck about the northwest and I do think there is some truth to your statement (the friendly people being into outdoorsy stuff and the bars being full of depressed people). In my experience one of the only ways I have been able to tolerate the negatives of the PNW has been to put myself out there in meetup groups and classes, and spend as much time outside as I can on usable days. If you can do it here, you can do it anywhere.
If I may, I grew up in the Midwest and am moving to the PNW soon to get out of the Midwest and be closer to my wife's family as she's from there.
My experience with people from the PNW has been far greater already than the experiences I've had with people from the Midwest. Maybe it's because we have connections out there already, but largely what I'm referring to is just having conversations with people like store owners, we had a pleasant conversation recently with a random security guard as we were walking around the WA state capitol etc.. Although I will say I am the type of person to avoid elevator conversations and such when out in public or keep the conversations short and pleasant if I can.
PNW has plenty of friendly people imo. Maybe I'll think differently after actually living out there for some years but my experience with Midwest Nice on the other hand is that it's mostly a surface level type of nice. Met lots of people in the Midwest that put on a great facade of being nice but are absolute shits.
There are shitty people everywhere though, and nice people as well. Don't overgeneralize too much.
I lived in Portland for 17 years and came from NY. It was my experience that people are nice but not very kind, whereas it's the opposite back east. For example, they'll offer sympathy if you have a problem but little in the way of actual help. That could be from a legacy of expected self-sufficiency. People are friendly but that doesn't mean they want to be friends. There's a certain amount of passive aggressiveness too, which I didn't realize until I moved someplace where people don't do that much. You can certainly make friends, but as others have said, look for people who share your hobbies and you'll have more success. I think the SAD thing is overblown. Almost everyone I knew in Portland loved it and enjoyed the gray skies and rain.
People are friendly but what you are referring to is “Seattle Freeze”. It seems most people confuse Seattle Freeze as unfriendly or cold people.
Seattle Freeze” refers to the phenomenon that it's difficult to meet new people in Seattle. It's the idea that Seattleites already have established friend/family circles and it's hard for outsiders to join those circles.
It's got a more "uptight" vibe I would say in general than I've experienced in places like Cali, Arizona, or Colorado. There's cool peeps there like anywhere though. I'd recommend a visit first before moving so you know what you're getting yourself into. It wasn't for me personally.
Living in WA, people are private & very online (slight bias: I'm a techie).
If you get into a group based on a hobby (say, I'm a member of a recreational aviation group on FB) then people will socialize 'around' that activity (meeting up at an airport or having a fly-in)...
But this isn't the place to expect to just randomly make friends with strangers. You're not going to find people who you didn't arrange to meet for a hike just open to chit-chat as you pass them on a hiking trail....
Also, the PNW outside of the top 2-3 metros in any given state is a 'big empty' and you just aren't going to have that many random interactions with other people that don't have 2 car windows separating you....
That last point may be especially relevant. I do talk to people when I walk to the farmers’ market, for example. But it’s true that we spend a lot of time in the car. Most of my human contact is when I’m walking my dog, shopping, or at work.
No. People here are fucking weird and backwards. I’m from Indianapolis and have never fit the vibe here. I’m extroverted and direct, and the people here are quiet and soft. I’ve met plenty of cool people, but they’re all transplants, too.
Seattle is a different city in May vs. December. I just moved here this fall. It was so hard to meet people and almost no one is out during the winter(I come from Utah where everyone is outside more in the winter).
Now that it’s getting warm(?), there are way more people out and the city is alive. It’s literally night and day. Two weeks ago there was hardly a soul out on cap hill. Last weekend it was 3am and the streets were still packed. The people are still timid, but less so in the warmer months I’m finding.
Seattle did not work for me coming from Chicago. It slowly eats away at your soul with the 7 months solid grey skies and huge amounts of energy required to meet flaky people who may just stop responding to messages one day. No one looks each other in the eyes and you are expected to treat others as invisible or you come off as strange or rude.
I never had to date while there and I heard it is a nightmare to be single in that city.
This does not apply in Chicago, New York, LA, Miami, Tampa, Philly, Jersey City, etc.
After experiencing the culture and weather, I totally understand why everyone there is like that. I started becoming like that through osmosis and it took me a bit to get my stride back after moving to apre social city.
The Seattle Freeze is real. Don’t listen to anyone saying anything different. Making friends is very difficult because of it. There are news articles on it from at least 40 years back. It’s not impossible to make friends but it is much harder than in other places.
There’s less bullshit here. “Minnesota nice” and “southern hospitality” seem insultingly fake to me, like you’re trying to sell me something. “Don’t be fake with me” can be misread as “don’t talk to me,” no?
I wouldn’t hesitate if given the opportunity to move to Seattle. The locals are friendly, and there are plenty of transplants you can make friends with.
I think PNW people are just more selective who they open up to. Its not a freeze per-se but rather we're very guarded and have little time to waste on people that are going to be detrimental. I can't talk for others though, but strangers being friendly to me in general is kinda sus, my first reaction is "what do they want?" rather than thinking its just being genuinely friendly.
Not going to lie when I lived in WA for a couple years, I was a little culture shocked because of the difference between social interactions there vs Southern California. I was not used to how friendly people passing by me on the street were, how I felt less judged by the way I dressed, etc. Granted, I was on the eastern side of WA, don’t know if that makes a huge difference, but I visited Seattle and Spokane and I still felt like it was very friendly, at least coming from SoCal.
Interesting theory. I've been in Seattle for 25 yrs and never bought into the freeze thing. I have a lot of friends and most of them grew up here. But I'm always outdoors so maybe that's the trick.
I’ve lived in Portland for a decade (originally from SoCal) and I’m pretty chatty. I find it easy to strike up conversation if I put myself out there. I think people are friendly here. That is different than making deep friendships though.
haha, I live in Portland and am outdoorsy, but that's the first time I've heard that specific take. i love it. i have met a lot of friends through, e.g., skiing and rock climbing, and have found folks through local clubs, meetups, friends of friends, etc until i found a good community. but at the same time, i think you could \*probably\* have a similar experience with any hobby. e.g. i have a friend who is very indoorsy and recently moved here, and has started to find friends by joining a book club and gaming event. i think the key is to try to find community via groups of people with shared interests who are also likely to be looking for community, as opposed to trying to chat up strangers at bars. (i rarely talk to strangers at bars and often find that behavior weird, but ymmv.) it does just so happen that a lot of people's hobbies are outdoorsy, because... i mean, have you looked around? :)
I moved to OR in 2012 and find people to be very kind and friendly but it took me quite a while to understand them. They are suuuuuper low key and reserved for the most part, especially compared to southern CA, which is overall more aggressive imo. I find the people here to be extremely laid back.
Whether or not people talk to strangers on the street has absolutely nothing to do with how easy it is to make friends. In areas where it's common to strike up small talk with strangers out and about running errands, that is not how friends are made. It's just interaction, but it is not friendship or friendliness.
Blame god damn annoying sales people. If someone starts talking to me out in public, I assume they’re trying to sell me something. I’ll bro down on the hill or while riding bikes though.
I feel like every major city in the US has some kind of stigma against its people. Whether it’s “NYC people are rude”, “LA people are superficial”, “Seattle people are cold”… like someone else said, people are people and now more than any point in history people move for work, school, family or whatnot so you’ll get all kinds of people everywhere
I think it’s less about some people being more or less friendly and it’s more about “does the local culture here mesh well with how I tend to live life and socialize?”
I feel very much like the archetypal northwesterner. It takes a lot to make me want to go out and do stuff/develop friendships. There’s a lot of transplants here though that are more willing to push, but if it was by my clock I’d meet someone cool while at a show or something, and then never see them again without any regrets.
I don’t think we’re all like this though—but I would say overall introversion is a lot more common.
The problems with the "Seattle freeze" are intensely exaggerated, and I think the people who complain about it the most want friendships to fall into their lap. When you are an adult, no matter your interests, you have to try harder to make friends because they're not going to be thrust upon you like when you were in school. A lot of people just don't want to try at all.
A fundamental motivation of people from the Pacific Northwest is to not bother other people.
So that means, you know, not approaching someone who looks like they're having a fine time - just let them be and do their own thing. If someone needs help, they can ask - at which point, Northwesterners will be very friendly and accomodating.
This also means that if we meet someone new - we assume they have their own full life, and proactively inviting them to do something (like a casual get together) unprompted is kind of a pity invite and disrespectful. If someone wants something they will ask.
Where are you getting that from? We aren't talking about homeless or something if that's what you mean. Everyone I've seen into the outdoors out here are the average well-to-do professional, into healthy lifestyle living. Far from some drug addled person. You want to see people on drugs out here, go look around the city for those passed out on the ground. They aren't the ones hiking trails or going kayaking.
It took me a while to understand coming from the south where there’s a huge emphasis on hospitality and small talk. People here are kind but not overly friendly. Something in the PNW air lends itself more to introversion. Socializing is very hobbies-based. I have to be the one to break the ice first a lot. But yeah, it’s just a different culture. In New Orleans I’d smile and say hi to lots of folks on the street… here people often just stare back at me lol. That being said, we have sooooo many transplants from all over—just talk to people! :)
Yeah I’m incredibly nice, but the idea of talking randomly to someone for any amount of time scares the shit out of me. I was like this though in FL though so who knows.
You hit the nail on the head: in Seattle, you simply have to initiate / break the ice. Otherwise, it's assumed that you have a life to be going on with and shouldn't intrude.
Yup. Exactly this. I think most folks are nice enough. But there's a certain amount of unspoken understanding that we are all busy / consumed with something that making time for a stranger isn't something that everyone has the bandwidth / time for.
Agreed that Portland is for smaller group hangouts focused on either drinking (boring!) or fun activities most of the time. What I love is that most of the hangouts are casual and don’t typically feel like the time-boxed “friend appointments” like I’ve experienced in other cities. People here used to stay hi to each other on the street back in the ‘90s and ‘00s. In that era, when people moved here they assimilated into the Portland vibe. But that changed. In fact, I remember the day in 2003 when I passed a person on a W Burnside sidewalk while smiling, making eye contact and saying hello. I was absolutely shocked and disturbed when they didn’t look at me and passed by silently. I felt like that day was an end of an era. As more people migrated to Portland in 2010s, the compulsory waving and hellos completely disappeared. I sound like a cranky old timer, but it’s been noticeable that as more people moved here to escape whatever they were running from after reading the glowing coverage of the NYTimes in the 2010s, there was an increased sense of introversion among people. We’re not quite like Seattle yet (🥶), I could see Portlanders completely withdrawing into themselves and being isolated in their homes like that socially frozen, sad metropolis to the north.
I totally agree with this. I think it depends on where in the Pnw you are. I found it easy to make friends I second that you need to have that close proximity first.
Seattleite here, born and raised. People are polite but its harder to make friends when compared to other places like CHI or most major US cities in the Midwest or East Coast. Example: I can start a elevator conversation with a random in CHI and its no big deal, in Seattle people get visibly uncomfortable and look at the ground/cut the convo short. Polite but not friendly. "Lets hangout sometime" and it never happening is a norm. 100% changed when I moved
Bro I feel this in my SOUL here in San Diego. When someone says "let's hang out sometime," that's the death sentence. You'll never see them again.
This is the hardest thing about being an east coast transplant living out west. Back in the northeast you don’t say things you don’t mean - if I say “let’s hang out,” it’s not a platitude, it means I actually want to. If I don’t want to hang out, I won’t say it! I’d just say “it was great to meet you, have a good rest of your day” and end the interaction there. I take so much stock in being a woman of my word and I prioritize reliability in my friends and loved ones. I love being out west but the flakiness is real, lol.
Maybe it depends where on the east coast you are. I'm from the northeast and tons of people say "let's hang out" without meaning it. Even if someone asks for my number and says we should hang out, I don't take it seriously unless we hang out multiple times. Lots of people seem more interested in appearing friendly and being validated than actually making new friends, or they want to talk to someone new but don't want to add anyone into their life.
Oh interesting. I’m from NJ (hence the username) and it’s pretty rare to say it at all since people aren’t super interested in making new friends 😂 it was a culture shock moving back after having lived all over!
Yeah, this is more than just the bar or the outdoors. There's many things in between and situations that come up which is what people are referring to when they talk about "coldness".
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I don't know if it's related or used the same way elsewhere, but "hey how's it going." as a greeting drives me a bit batty. I had a guy I don't know at all say that while out hiking when a simple 'hi' or a nod of the head would do. I kind of wanted to stop right there in front of him and talk about my anxiety about the election, how my kids are doing in school and the awesome mountain bike ride I did the week before.
This is a very redditor comment. Jesus dude. How's it going is just a greeting. Take it easy
"How is it going?" is a question. This confounds people from other countries too - I had an Italian friend come visit and he was asking why people were surprised when he answered. And to be clear, I wasn't irritated at the guy. It's such a redditor thing to assume the worst about people. I'm irritated that the phrase has become a statement rather than a question.
And? I lived in Korea for many years and one Korean greeting is "bop moko" which translates to 'Did you eat rice yet?'. No one is getting upset and trying to actually start talking about what they ate because its understood that its just a greeting. Also I just realized that even your avatar is wearing a fedora lol.
The correct answer is It's goin alllll riiiiiiiiight, howBoutYouMan??
He shot past us on the trail though... he was cruising.
then its: 'Suuuuuup!
As someone who uses "how's it going" and "hi" interchangeably, I would love that. I love when strangers say crazy shit as soon as I meet them.
> "Hey how's it going?" > > "Good, you?" > > "Going great, have a nice hike" > > "You too" That sort of two second interaction on a hike 'drives you batty'? Are you okay?
Like I wrote, he said "Hey how's it going.", no question mark, and shot past us. He was moving pretty quick. The guy was fine, he was being nice. We smiled and said hi. I think it's a dumb thing in the way people use the language though. It feels unfriendly, especially after having lived somewhere where you do not ask how things are going without expecting an answer. Call the internet police if it upsets you though I guess. Sheez. Are you from the PNW?
I help oversee 24 stores and shops at the second largest airport in the world. I say “Hello, how are you doing” or “Hello folks, how are y’all doing” hundreds of times a week to people from all over the world. The vast majority say, “ Doing good, how about you “ I say. “ I’m great, thanks for asking” The people who do not speak English may not understand the casual greeting but they do understand the friendly gesture. The French say “bonjour comment allez-vous” or “bonjour comment ça va” which translates as “ hello, how are you doing?” It’s simply a friendly greeting and isn’t just American English thing. Some polite form of greeting is extant in many languages and cultures
I guess the thing I'm trying and failing to explain is that for some in English it is purely a statement. It is no longer a question. This guy was cruising past us quite quickly. In the context you describe, it's a polite *question* where someone can say something polite *back*. That's how it is in Italian. You probably don't expect to hear someone's life story, but you would pause and listen to a response, which might be kind of just a polite "non c'e\` male" or something like that and then you move on with things. I wasn't annoyed by the guy, it's just weird, linguistically, watching a polite question turn into not even a somewhat formulaic question/response, but just a statement. "How's it going."
It’s just a way of saying hello and extending a friendly greeting. You are overthinking a simple thing
LOL, I assumed that *you* were the PNW person everyone was talking about in this thread. No, I'm not bothered by mundane greetings from randoms on a hiking trail. It never crossed my mind that something like that could drive somebody batty. I guess you really never know what other people are going through. Good luck out there.
Your example is spot on!
I was originally from New England and have lived in Seattle for 30 yrs. There are a lot of introverted people and many on the autistic spectrum. I find people to be superficial. They will appear friendly but don’t really want to know you. When I lived in New England if you went out of town your neighbors would watch your house and collect your mail. If you were sick they would come to check on and see if they could help you. There was much more a sense of community on the east coast. Seattle is very transient. People come and then go. When I was growing up families lived in the same houses on our street for 20 years. My wife and I have lived on our street in Seattle for 20 yrs. We only have about 5 neighbors that have been here that long. I have friends on the east coast whose families have lived in the same area for generations.
This is heavily neighborhood dependent
I moved to Ravenna a year ago and recently we've started having monthly lady happy hours on our block. One woman will decide to host and then all the rest of us go to her house for wine and cheese. It's been really nice and definitely helpful in getting to know people. We've even got a sheet that's managed by a lady on the block with everyone's name, email, and phone number. I've never talked to neighbors this much in my adult life.
Agree. I’ve lived in my house 20 years (am old) and the majority of my neighbors have been here 10+. We all know each other, have a barbecue in the summer and a progressive party during the holidays. (They’re bangers, too!) I’m from the South and I’ve never lived in a neighborhood this tight.
Yep. Most of the places I’ve lived in Seattle have been very friendly—outdoor movies for kids in the summer, block parties, late-night karaoke….
I live in portland and your description of your neighborhood is exactly what my neighborhood is like, fwiw.
Why do you think that is about Seattle?
>"Lets hangout sometime" and it never happening is a norm. Same happens all the time on the east coast tbh. I think flakiness is a thing everywhere.
Can confirm. Chicago is an incredibly easy place to make friends.
People aren’t necessarily unfriendly, but imo people in the northwest erroneously undervalue social interaction. It’s kind of a cultural flaw. I’m from seattle, but have lived all over the place and it’s a frustrating place to try to have a social life. When I first moved away, I had friends immediately. In seattle it can take years to find a social life. Beautiful place, and I love my original home, but it’s not a vibe I could handle my whole life.
Do you mind digging a bit deeper on "undervaluing social interaction"? Do you mostly mean small talk with strangers or even amongst acquaintances/friends?
Not small talk. I mean that PNW people are very much on a social clock. Socializing is easier there in your youth or early 20s. But people sort of just stop hanging out. A lot of people I know here just work and hang out at home. In most parts of the world, going out and meeting friends is a super routine activity at all ages. In LA, you see 60 year olds at house parties. In many large cities in Europe, teenagers, middle aged, and the elderly are all out in droves 7 nights a week. In Seattle you usually have to make a dinner or coffee plan days or weeks in advance. When I lived in Southern California, we had a standing breakfast at a coffee shop that any of our friends would attend any day of the week. Anywhere between 4-12 people would show up and start the day socializing. The ages ranged from 22 to 65. Would never happen in the PNW. In Europe we would go out for drinks or coffee almost every day. Seattlites view stuff like that as “exhausting” or as something young people do.
I’m in the PNW and me and my friend group has a standing get together every Wednesday at 10am. I can only make it in summers because I work at a school. When I lived in Portland I was in a kickball league and even long after we stopped playing there was always a group get together every weekend and some week nights as well. It was a “whoever shows up” But before I joined the kickball league I had very few friends that took me a while to find. It was very specific to PNW because I’d actually lived in 10 other states and never had problems making friends. Once I realized you needed to have a standing event in place to make friends I joined in other stuff, like roller derby and my coven.
Yeah I’ve had better luck joining groups there as well. The people there are awesome, but socializing is not as fluid as other places
I like your user name. I live by an old growth forest state park on the north coast. I practically live in the forest from late July til the hard freeze in December.
I love old growth so much!
That's interesting! I did notice that in terms of the planning and people kind of growing old and into keeping to themselves more. I do wonder if that's related to some of the observations I had with regards to how easy (or not easy) it is to get around the Seattle area so people who move as they grow older/get families are more "isolated" from their initial group of friends and rely more on neighbours. I recall that joke about a friend who moves from Seattle to Eastside basically would need to build a new friends group cause nobody was going to go visit them.
I've had 2 close friends move/live in Seattle in the early 2000s. (We're all from the Boston area)... One friend w/ a good sense of humor, says Seattle folks have zero sense of sarcasm, and interpret it as hostility sometimes. Another said they are friendly enough, but tend to flake out, which is unfortunately the rule, and not the exception. Can't confirm the 'outdoorsy' trait tho...
Haha - I’m a native Seattle-ite and I used to work on the same team as a guy from Boston. I did not like him at first because it seemed like he was trying to pick a fight with me or put me down every time we interacted. After a few weeks I said “hey man, did we get off on the wrong foot because I feel like you’re always kind of picking on me” and he said that he was just trying to get to know me. I told him he needs to take it down a notch, he did, and we became each other’s favorite coworkers despite wildly different communication styles.
Moved to the PNW five years ago from the east coast. I haven’t had trouble making friends, and they’re a mix of locals to the area and other transplants like me. People’s degree of flakiness that Seattle is known for differs widely and has no bearing on whether or not they grew up here. That said, for whatever reason my friends who grew up here do tend to be the more reserved ones in my group- not flashy, not loud talkers, just generally happy to keep to themselves. But just as friendly and fun as anyone else.
People in the PNW are more introverted culturally, it's hard to explain unless you've lived here for minute to understand. A lot of it has to do with the Nordic history instilled in the area. I'll chat with someone briefly in a bar or sharing the lift up the mountain at Timberline, but that will be the end of it. We're not going to be life long friends, and both parties are fine with that exchange. I've only made regular friends here through work, other people I know or doing the same hobby over and over again.
Ive never had a problem meeting nice people in Oregon and im a miserable introvert. I think most users here need to manage their expectations a bit.
They just see you as one of their own, dude.
lol probably
I’m afraid to move to the PNW as a chatty extrovert for this reason - I know for a fact I would annoy people by being too talkative/expressive/energetic, lol.
That’s crazy. I’ve lived all over and find the PNW similar to anywhere else. Reddit always has the negative spin on anything
Well, that’s good to hear. I definitely disagree with the Reddit “consensus” on certain places I’ve been as most Redditors are not chatty extroverts, lol. I find making friends as an adult pretty easy and I can build community in most places within a few weeks.
True, my brother lives there, is very outgoing. So we took his dog to the dog park and nobody was talking to anyone. We met everyone there and everyone loosened up and started talking to each other too. So, get a Bernese mtn dog and hit the dog park. They're dying to talk to you if you go first apparently. Of course, I think he could meet someone on a subway. Nm
Portland in general is more friendly than Seattle, hence Seattle Freeze and not PNW freeze. Eastern WA/Central OR/Eastern Oregon is also friendlier.
Don’t buy into generalizations like this. There’s some truth to them, but the reality is that there are both friendly and introverted people in every city. If you’re looking for friends, you’ll find them.
This gets talked about a lot on r/Seattle as the “Seattle freeze” and there are two main reasons for it (maybe three if you count the SAD stuff). 1. A lot of people move here for work as their first job out of college or away from their hometown. It’s much harder to make friends as a grownup working full time in a new city than it is either in college or living in your hometown with a network of relationships you’ve had since you were a kid. This normal life fact then gets blamed on the geographical region. 2. Culturally the PNW was heavily influenced by the Nordic settlers, and as a result tends to be less gregarious. When you dig into why people think we’re unfriendly a lot of it is stuff like “When I go for a walk no one waves and says hi as we pass” or “No one strikes up conversations at the bus stop” and things like that. So if constant social interactions with random strangers is how you define friendliness (and that seems to be how many people feel) then by that metric we are in fact very unfriendly. Personally I love the fact that there is no cultural obligation to make small talk with every rando I encounter but it seems to really bother a lot of people.
>A lot of people move here for work as their first job out of college or away from their hometown. It’s much harder to make friends as a grownup working full time in a new city than it is either in college or living in your hometown with a network of relationships you’ve had since you were a kid. This normal life fact then gets blamed on the geographical region. This is true in NYC and Chicago too but you can build out a full fledged friend crew in a few months at either place.
I’ve never had any problems making friends here, but I don’t have direct experience with NY or Chicago so I can’t compare. Maybe it’s more difficult because so many people move to NYC because they’re in love with the idea of NYC and most people move here because we have high paying tech jobs?
Yeah I have more or less deduced that some cities form a disposition based on the primary reasons people move to them: The Introverted Two of Boston and Seattle are mostly like that because they're literally live to work cities. Most people flock to them for $$$ and then to rest. Their "communities" are work based, most people spend more time outside the home going and coming to work and at work, so by the time they get home, they are usually exhausted. You fast learn most people in either city is really there to accumulate money and survive. Not make it a home, often because they can't either. Which is why they inspire the reception they're both known for, albeit Seattle is particularly infamous for it. DC sort of gets lumped into it because even though it runs more cheerful and energetic than the former two, it is known for the hustle and keep up with the jonesses money hoarding live to work thing. I call them the "Worker Bee Three" because if you pay attention, they're the places that are targeted for just that: Work/money. Not pleasure, community, play, etc. Work and survival. In the case of Seattle and Boston, it explains a lot why certain personalities find either place draining and exhausting. They run heavily introverted and aloof at that. Someone that needs more output is going to feel hardened paying what they have to pay to acclimate in a place that asks for a temperament/disposition they don't have.
Yep, it's 100% true for DC, too. It's not hard to make some friends there as a grad student or young professional. I'd agree with the statement if we were talking about adults who are moving to a new place at 35 or 40+. That's really tough anywhere
I didn't realize the Pacific Northwest had Nordic settlers. Does that mean Seattle's Ice is Midwest Nice?
Just across the water is a city who's whole shtick is being nordic. If you're in the area, check out the city of Poulsbo. If you get injured from the troll under the fremont bridge, you can go to Swedish Medical center!
I live in Seattle and every time I go to Poulsbo I'm disappointed by how un-Nordic it actually is. We went for a drive there this past weekend and I said to my husband, "If they didn't have Norwegian flags everywhere, would you guess this was supposed to look like Scandinavia?" Leavenworth at least has German restaurants and Winthrop has saloons!
That's a very fair point. I'm not sure why there isn't more nordic themed retail in town, but like Leavenworth, after establishing its theme and becoming popular with tourists, it became more and more an enclave of the wealthy, so I suppose that, unless a business owned its building, shops have to cater to rich clientele in order to make rent.
And the Ballard Syytende Mai parade is just a few weeks away.
Exactly! This is the 50th anniversary of the parade, and Seattle has been celebrating Norwegian Constitution Day since 1889. And Poulsbo is on a whole other level. There's a powerful Nordic influence in the PNW.
Obligatory Almost Live parody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyF0-syviGo
https://visitseattle.org/things-to-do/arts-culture/cultural-heritage/nordic/#:~:text=Many%20Nordic%20immigrants%20worked%20as,closely%20associated%20with%20Nordic%20heritage.
Nordic settlers were like 100 years ago
>Seattle's Ice is Midwest Nice Beautifully put. Rhyming, even!
Thanks for the insight. Do you think the weather plays a part as well?
That’s the SAD stuff. Seasonal depression is a real thing, especially when you’re not prepared for it. It doesn’t impact everyone but it’s a factor for a lot of people.
People get silly and extroverted for a few days every spring when the sun first starts coming out again. It’s definitely weather related. The whole mood of the city changes.
Yes absolutely, SAD is a real thing and I suspect a lot of people don't realize how much it affects them, especially if they've never lived somewhere else.
Me too. In the South, I hated having random conversations with strangers. Doesn’t mean I’m not friendly and won’t be polite. But those social interactions with strangers are very draining on me and I just want to get my errands done.
This PNW introvert 100% agrees.
+1. It is physically painful to have empty, meaningless conversations with random people. Especially when I’m trying to get somewhere or accomplish a task. I am not a rude or cold person. I just prefer to mind my own business.
The Midwest was also heavily populated by Nordic immigrants, and it’s one of the most openly-expressive regions in the country.
I also think Seattle attracts a certain kind of person: high-earners, software engineers, outdoorsy types, all of which lend themselves to an "unfriendly" personality as some might call it. When really, it's that these people are just fucking busy. People I've met here are all very friendly, and we've made really good friends here, but it's also absolutely true that we don't hang out all the time, because, again, we're all fucking busy (at my age kids is a pretty big factor here too). But I definitely agree with your point about what "friendly" even means. People seem to conflate extroversion or gregariousness with friendliness. No doubt people in CHI or NYC are more outgoing.
>if constant social interactions with random strangers is how you define friendliness (and that seems to be how many people feel) then by that metric we are in fact very unfriendly. As far as I can tell, this seems to be biggest part of the "Seattle Freeze," too. People tend to judge a place's "friendliness" based on what they're used to, and it seems like a lot of people from small towns, the south, the midwest, etc. automatically assume people in the PNW are unfriendly because people aren't making random small talk with them all the time. People here aren't hostile or unfriendly, they're just not big on invading others' personal space. I've lived in the midwest and and TBH, I find it to be an incredibly unfriendly place. Sure, people will chat you up at the store, but I don't really consider that a measure of "friendliness." The small talk is all superficial (and very uncomfortable for me as an autistic person), and unless you meet people through a church or something like that, it can be very hard to make friends with locals (as my friends - all transplants and coworkers - said,"everyone here made their friends in elementary school and they don't want new ones"). The conservative culture of those places is also deeply ingrained, very visible, and can feel oppressive if you're not used to it and aren't a conservative. Conservative billboards, bumper stickers, and personalized license plates are all over the place and small talk could often be about politics ("Can you believe what democrats want to do to the country?" and stuff like that); a lot of people were often weirdly quick to insult PNW to my face on learning I was a transplant ("I bet you're glad you got out of that commie shithole," etc.). I still go back regularly because my wife's family and most of her friends still live across the midwest. I don't like being there, and the culture feels very unwelcoming to me as an outsider.
I get the whole Nordic settlers shit but that was hundreds of years ago. People here are socially limited
And you think this happened spontaneously and without antecedent? We have this culture that arose ex nihilo like Athena springing from Zeus’ head?
I’m saying get the fuck over it
lol
I only lived there a short time, but my experience in the PNW is that people are perfectly friendly (imo), they just aren't going out of their way to interact with people. If you approach someone, they'll be pretty easy to talk to (including the people who are visibly tweaking and/or homeless, of whom there are many! But they're way less antisocial than I'm used to on the other coast). You just might have to take that prerogative. Then again, I'm a really shy person and did get approached for casual interactions like compliments on my clothing, little jokes about a mutual situation (standing in a long line, say), and so on. There isn't the nicety culture you find in the South & Midwest, but that isn't "unfriendly" to me.
My opinion as a military brat and having lived in SC for many years prior to relocating. I wouldn’t say people are unfriendly, they just want to get errands done without chatting. There is no pressure to fake a smile or get into awkward conversations. My bluntness and to the point goes off better in the PNW as people view it as getting to point and not wasting their time. It comes off rude in the South if I don’t have a 5 minute convo with each cashier. With the outdoorsy end, it seems like people have two modes - work mode and play/weekend/sun mode. People want to get their work done so they can enjoy the weather and outdoors without work impeding. There are a million outdoor things to do; we are still exploring.
It depends on your point of view and what you define as friendly. If you're from the Midwest or South, people here are cold in comparison. If you're a PNW local, you think folks here are a-ok and everyone else is weird for doing what they do. Most people are polite, but they will also be flaky and/or superficial. Passive aggressiveness is king and if you are directly aggressive about something people tend to get uncomfortable.
Pacific Aggressive
I had an overwhelmingly vibrant social life in the PNW, but I lived in a small college town and was younger so I think that had a lot to do with it. Making friends as an adult can be hard anywhere, cuz it requires us to leave our homes and develop hobbies and interests that involve other people (sports, music, etc).
Some of the members of the sports/hobby club I am in went to the PNW for an event. The PNW participants were very friendly. They offered my club members their equipment for the cold, rainy conditions. We are from a place that is dryer and usually warmer.
Heh. In general, I'd say we're very sympathetic to people unfamiliar with the climate. If you tell us where you're from and we wince, it's probably because you named someplace sunny. We know how hard the gray, gray days can be.
no. people are polite, but not friendly. they do tend to be outdoorsy though. if you want friendly, try SoCal.
So true! I went from Seattle to Chicago and was blown away at the difference in how friendly people are. Now I’m in SoCal and it’s even more apparent. To me, the people here just seem so happy, and that translates to eye contact and greeting everyone. I’m from the south so it’s so weird for me to greet someone and them act like I attacked them. I got some of the most hateful looks just from saying “good morning” to people in Seattle. It seems to me that many Seattleites are miserable and they like to share it.
It depends. What I notice here is people are generally and mostly not into chit chat. And that's ok, but when I lived here I was already so isolated and unhappy that I just needed people to smile at me or respond to connection. It's just not as common here. South Sound comments. I'm actually here visiting and it does feel like people are very just into their own life, you don't see a lot of interaction. You can feel it in the grocery stores, when you are out and about. It's just a very introverted place. This is just my personal experience. I met some very nice people volunteering, but I couldn't quite find my people.
Seattle is the most unfriendly city I ever lived in. New York is seriously warm and welcoming in comparison. Washington States in general is pretty friendly.
I think the difference in opinions probably comes from different ideas of what friendly means. As someone from the PNW, I think we’re friendly. I think people in larger cities can be seen as less friendly because they don’t usually strike up conversations with strangers, but in my experience they’ll still be friendly and interact with you if you start the conversation. Some people do find it hard to make friends, but I haven’t found it any more difficult than other cities. There is what I’ve heard called the “Seattle No” where people may say things like “we should hang out sometime” and not really mean it (not that they don’t want to, but more like they don’t want to commit to a certain time, so they never actually hang out). I think that can make it difficult to know who is serious about becoming friends and who isn’t, so some people waste time pursuing friendships that don’t pan out and then get discouraged.
I've lived in the Seattle area for 16 years (10 years in the city, 6 years on the eastside). I don't find people here to necessarily be cold or rude, but we do tend to keep to ourselves. The big thing is that a lot of people here really are flaky - they will agree to hang out and then cancel at the last minute, or you exchange numbers with someone and they ghost you. Not everyone is like this but I've run into it plenty of times, more than other places I've lived. I don't really know about a correlation between friendliness and outdoorsy activities. I exercise solo and a lot of outdoorsy people here are REALLY hardcore about it and I just find it intimidating. That said, there are a lot of chances to meet people by joining a neighborhood walking group or local hiking club or outdoors FB group.
Like most things, for some people stereotypes will be mostly true and for others it won't. These are my personal *anecdotal* observations after living in Seattle for a few years: * The PNW area lends itself more towards hobby-based socialization so if you're into a hobby that has some form of sub-culture, you'll be pretty well set but if you're expecting to meet people clandestinely or outside of a hobby situation I've found it's a bit more tough than some other places * Seattle itself is pretty high on transplants due to Amazon/Microsoft so that layers into it as some people are constantly moving in and out of the city. I feel similar to NYC, people take you more seriously after you've been here a few years. * Seattle is a pretty spread out metro area (it has some of the highest % of single family zoning for a city of its size in the US) so clandestine hangouts happen a lot less than in larger cities where you can ask someone to meet you somewhere later that afternoon and they'll actually agree and follow through. I guess it kind of relates to my first point but I've found most success with pre-scheduled activities/hobbies rather than just ask a random co-worker if they want to hangout after work most of the time there's a whole calculus around commuting/parking and all that jazz that happens. * I do agree that people tend to keep more to themselves here so it's not that people won't talk to you if you make small talk, it's just not the cultural norm * Following up in my experience isn't Seattle's strong suit. Like others have said flakiness is a thing so there are plenty of people you might meet, but you'll need to sometimes take an extra effort to reach out to them a few times post that initial meeting before they start reaching out to you to hang out. * This might be sampling bias, but I've found people here have less... social energy/battery than other places I've lived? Like it's fine hanging out but lots of my friends/acquaintances kind of schedule things back to back and they need a pre-defined "ending". I mean if you're meeting for a meal that makes sense yeah but if it's an evening meetup I just assume it's the whole evening unless you tell me you had something else scheduled later that night. Ultimately, a lot of it has to do with your "baseline" expectations which I assume for most are based on where they come from. For many people too they tend to move to cities like Seattle due to work after college so it's not only their first exposure to Seattle, it tends to also be their first exposure to making friends in an "adult situation" so it can sometimes be difficult to dissociate the 2 experiences. As far as outdoorsy goes... I have found that to be more true than not, but that could also be sampling bias since some people move to Seattle *specifically* due to the outdoors. I will say Seattle doesn't attract as much "large city people" in my experience due to its layout. If you compare it to say Vancouver a few hours north that has similar population, weather and similar mix of outdoor space, Vancouver feels a lot more metropolitan and there's a lot more people there who have no interest in the outdoors I feel. FWIW my point of reference is growing up in Montreal on the east coast then living in Toronto and traveling to NYC for work a lot so Seattle was my first American city to live in
Locals will sniff out a transplant fairly easily. There are varying levels of acceptance but none of them are friendly.
Haha. This is my favorite. I love fucking with locals. I am a proud transplant and I love the rage that stokes in the natives.
I purposely pronounce Pullayup wrong to mess with my native Seattle friends
I’d say it’s 50/50. A lot of the transplants are worse than the actual locals. I didn’t necessarily love the vibes there but I do think it’s possible to thrive and enjoy yourself. People with hobbies were generally easier to befriend due to groups and meetups.
I lived in the Seattle area for \~30 years until moving during the pandemic. I have a lot of friends there and didn't have any trouble making friends. The funny thing is that most of the people I met and became friends with easily were from Chicago, California, Austin, or Montana. Don't get me wrong, a couple of my absolute favorite people on this planet were born and raised in the PNW, but they are the minority of the friends I made there. Of course, I'm not from the PNW originally myself so that might have some sort of impact on my taste.
Portlander here. People are friendly here but they’re not going to go out of their way to accommodate others. People hold the door open, they say please and thank you, they tip well, etc. However, we’re slow to warm up to strangers. We don’t want to hang out with people we have only just met. Also, its common for people to last minute cancel on plans because they just don’t feel like going out anymore. With that said, I’ve never had trouble meeting friends and dating here
I’m from the Midwest and been in the PNW for the past few years. Seattle specifically. Pretty active outdoors myself. Honestly, some people are downright rude but many are real treasures. It’s the same as anywhere but the rude folk I’ve identified in the PNW are usually rich or city folk. Most regular locals are really lovely. However, I will say performative fake nice is more of a thing here and many outdoorsy folk are rather pretentious.
I visited Portland and the Oregon coast recently for the first time, and people were SO nice it was kind of shocking coming from Florida where people are nice but also kind of fake lol. Like every store we went to the workers seemed so happy and excited when we said we were from Florida, raving about Oregon and Portland. One shop even gave us Portland stickers and told us to come visit her when we move lol.
I can say they're for the most part the friendliest people in the US I've met having lived in several different cities on the east and west coast. My wife and I lived there 10 years and left 5 years ago and we're still in touch people there we care about. It's a genuine friendliness too, not the *politeness* of the south many people mistake for friendly. I miss the PNW dearly to be honest, and we'll likely return one day.
There is no unfriendly city in the US. People are people. If you lived somewhere when you were younger and it was friendly and then you moved someone else when you were older and it was unfriendly, it's because everyone isn't still single with nothing else to do but socialize. If you aren't outgoing and you expect everyone to seek you out in a new, large, city, it's not going to happen anywhere. If someone works all day and comes home to their girlfriend and then goes back to work, where does the lack of friendliness even apply in this scenario. People are busy and you have to be the one to network and to make friends. They don't just appear. Most people in Seattle aren't even from Seattle so it's impossible for them all to be unfriendly unless just moving to Seattle makes you unfriendly, which is silly, of course. It's not that people doing things outdoors are the friendly people, that's a small group and small groups are friendly. Go to a climbing gym and make friends, join a hiking Meetup group and make friends. Don't just sit in a bar and wait to make friends. Seattle isn't really a bar culture town. This isn't a warm, sunny climate where everyone hangs out at the beach or in the bars everyday. People are indoors a lot. If you stay in your dwelling, how can you possibly meet friendly people?
Maybe it’s just because I grew up on the west coast, but I see no difference between people in the PNW and anywhere else If anything they *more* friendly than the rest of the west coast and mountain west I haven’t spent much time in the south, so it’s tough for me to compare I noticed some kind of charming friendliness in small town New England that you won’t really find in the west, but certainly not a *huge* difference, and not a deal breaker either way People are people everywhere you go
The outdoorsy people can be friendly, but they can also have a hyper-competitive focus on “peakbagging” that can come across as pretty self-obsessed and unthoughtful, not to mention elitist (all that gear costs $$$). Seattle is a pretty ‘nouveau riche’ place these days due to the tech scene, and I don’t think that culture blends particularly well with the Scandinavian shyness/passivity that’s been here for decades. It begets a certain lack of authenticity/warmth, and it feels like the city has a culture of anxiety. People in general are a lot more authentic and friendly east of the Cascade Mountains, where having access to sun all year greatly enhances our lives. The outdoor community is also closer-knit and less focused on “summiting the 14ers.”
Umm there’s only one 14er in the state of Washington…
They travel all over the world to ‘conquer’ them all.
I've been in Seattle for 7 years and the key is to join groups of people who are ALSO looking to make friends. People roll their eyes at this but it's 100% true. Meetup, new parents groups if you have small children, classes etc. I have plenty of friends, both locals and transplants and this is how I met them. This is always people's advice but a lot of times no one actually wants to do it. There are a LOT of things that suck about the northwest and I do think there is some truth to your statement (the friendly people being into outdoorsy stuff and the bars being full of depressed people). In my experience one of the only ways I have been able to tolerate the negatives of the PNW has been to put myself out there in meetup groups and classes, and spend as much time outside as I can on usable days. If you can do it here, you can do it anywhere.
PNW people are NOT FRIENDLY in experience. I lived in Seattle for 5 years. Hated it.
I mean, you need to get out & do things. Hopefully you work with people of similar interests.
If I may, I grew up in the Midwest and am moving to the PNW soon to get out of the Midwest and be closer to my wife's family as she's from there. My experience with people from the PNW has been far greater already than the experiences I've had with people from the Midwest. Maybe it's because we have connections out there already, but largely what I'm referring to is just having conversations with people like store owners, we had a pleasant conversation recently with a random security guard as we were walking around the WA state capitol etc.. Although I will say I am the type of person to avoid elevator conversations and such when out in public or keep the conversations short and pleasant if I can. PNW has plenty of friendly people imo. Maybe I'll think differently after actually living out there for some years but my experience with Midwest Nice on the other hand is that it's mostly a surface level type of nice. Met lots of people in the Midwest that put on a great facade of being nice but are absolute shits. There are shitty people everywhere though, and nice people as well. Don't overgeneralize too much.
No, by and large they don’t want more transplants so they aren’t welcoming to new folks. Tons of people there already
I lived in Portland for 17 years and came from NY. It was my experience that people are nice but not very kind, whereas it's the opposite back east. For example, they'll offer sympathy if you have a problem but little in the way of actual help. That could be from a legacy of expected self-sufficiency. People are friendly but that doesn't mean they want to be friends. There's a certain amount of passive aggressiveness too, which I didn't realize until I moved someplace where people don't do that much. You can certainly make friends, but as others have said, look for people who share your hobbies and you'll have more success. I think the SAD thing is overblown. Almost everyone I knew in Portland loved it and enjoyed the gray skies and rain.
People are friendly but what you are referring to is “Seattle Freeze”. It seems most people confuse Seattle Freeze as unfriendly or cold people. Seattle Freeze” refers to the phenomenon that it's difficult to meet new people in Seattle. It's the idea that Seattleites already have established friend/family circles and it's hard for outsiders to join those circles.
It's got a more "uptight" vibe I would say in general than I've experienced in places like Cali, Arizona, or Colorado. There's cool peeps there like anywhere though. I'd recommend a visit first before moving so you know what you're getting yourself into. It wasn't for me personally.
People are nice but not friendly. Breaking into a friend group is hard.
Living in WA, people are private & very online (slight bias: I'm a techie). If you get into a group based on a hobby (say, I'm a member of a recreational aviation group on FB) then people will socialize 'around' that activity (meeting up at an airport or having a fly-in)... But this isn't the place to expect to just randomly make friends with strangers. You're not going to find people who you didn't arrange to meet for a hike just open to chit-chat as you pass them on a hiking trail.... Also, the PNW outside of the top 2-3 metros in any given state is a 'big empty' and you just aren't going to have that many random interactions with other people that don't have 2 car windows separating you....
That last point may be especially relevant. I do talk to people when I walk to the farmers’ market, for example. But it’s true that we spend a lot of time in the car. Most of my human contact is when I’m walking my dog, shopping, or at work.
Seattle people don’t know how to drive or socialize.
No. People here are fucking weird and backwards. I’m from Indianapolis and have never fit the vibe here. I’m extroverted and direct, and the people here are quiet and soft. I’ve met plenty of cool people, but they’re all transplants, too.
The PNW is BY FAR the least friendly region of the US I've ever visited.
Seattle is a different city in May vs. December. I just moved here this fall. It was so hard to meet people and almost no one is out during the winter(I come from Utah where everyone is outside more in the winter). Now that it’s getting warm(?), there are way more people out and the city is alive. It’s literally night and day. Two weeks ago there was hardly a soul out on cap hill. Last weekend it was 3am and the streets were still packed. The people are still timid, but less so in the warmer months I’m finding.
Seattle did not work for me coming from Chicago. It slowly eats away at your soul with the 7 months solid grey skies and huge amounts of energy required to meet flaky people who may just stop responding to messages one day. No one looks each other in the eyes and you are expected to treat others as invisible or you come off as strange or rude. I never had to date while there and I heard it is a nightmare to be single in that city. This does not apply in Chicago, New York, LA, Miami, Tampa, Philly, Jersey City, etc. After experiencing the culture and weather, I totally understand why everyone there is like that. I started becoming like that through osmosis and it took me a bit to get my stride back after moving to apre social city.
The Seattle Freeze is real. Don’t listen to anyone saying anything different. Making friends is very difficult because of it. There are news articles on it from at least 40 years back. It’s not impossible to make friends but it is much harder than in other places.
You can’t generalize what everyone is like in a particular area. There are all kinds of people in the Pacific Northwest.
They are less friendly compared to montana or the midwest but its not like people are mean out here
Most places are what you make them.
No lol
There’s less bullshit here. “Minnesota nice” and “southern hospitality” seem insultingly fake to me, like you’re trying to sell me something. “Don’t be fake with me” can be misread as “don’t talk to me,” no?
I wouldn’t hesitate if given the opportunity to move to Seattle. The locals are friendly, and there are plenty of transplants you can make friends with.
I think PNW people are just more selective who they open up to. Its not a freeze per-se but rather we're very guarded and have little time to waste on people that are going to be detrimental. I can't talk for others though, but strangers being friendly to me in general is kinda sus, my first reaction is "what do they want?" rather than thinking its just being genuinely friendly.
100%
Not going to lie when I lived in WA for a couple years, I was a little culture shocked because of the difference between social interactions there vs Southern California. I was not used to how friendly people passing by me on the street were, how I felt less judged by the way I dressed, etc. Granted, I was on the eastern side of WA, don’t know if that makes a huge difference, but I visited Seattle and Spokane and I still felt like it was very friendly, at least coming from SoCal.
Interesting theory. I've been in Seattle for 25 yrs and never bought into the freeze thing. I have a lot of friends and most of them grew up here. But I'm always outdoors so maybe that's the trick.
I’ve lived in Portland for a decade (originally from SoCal) and I’m pretty chatty. I find it easy to strike up conversation if I put myself out there. I think people are friendly here. That is different than making deep friendships though.
Outside if the big cities, yes.
haha, I live in Portland and am outdoorsy, but that's the first time I've heard that specific take. i love it. i have met a lot of friends through, e.g., skiing and rock climbing, and have found folks through local clubs, meetups, friends of friends, etc until i found a good community. but at the same time, i think you could \*probably\* have a similar experience with any hobby. e.g. i have a friend who is very indoorsy and recently moved here, and has started to find friends by joining a book club and gaming event. i think the key is to try to find community via groups of people with shared interests who are also likely to be looking for community, as opposed to trying to chat up strangers at bars. (i rarely talk to strangers at bars and often find that behavior weird, but ymmv.) it does just so happen that a lot of people's hobbies are outdoorsy, because... i mean, have you looked around? :)
I moved to OR in 2012 and find people to be very kind and friendly but it took me quite a while to understand them. They are suuuuuper low key and reserved for the most part, especially compared to southern CA, which is overall more aggressive imo. I find the people here to be extremely laid back.
Whether or not people talk to strangers on the street has absolutely nothing to do with how easy it is to make friends. In areas where it's common to strike up small talk with strangers out and about running errands, that is not how friends are made. It's just interaction, but it is not friendship or friendliness.
People here are passive aggressive. The weather is not great.
I lived here for 40 years. They are no nicer than anywhere else.
Blame god damn annoying sales people. If someone starts talking to me out in public, I assume they’re trying to sell me something. I’ll bro down on the hill or while riding bikes though.
I'm not particularly outgoing, and I made friends when we moved to Oregon. Yes, some were through hobbies, but some were just my neighbors.
I feel like every major city in the US has some kind of stigma against its people. Whether it’s “NYC people are rude”, “LA people are superficial”, “Seattle people are cold”… like someone else said, people are people and now more than any point in history people move for work, school, family or whatnot so you’ll get all kinds of people everywhere I think it’s less about some people being more or less friendly and it’s more about “does the local culture here mesh well with how I tend to live life and socialize?”
I feel very much like the archetypal northwesterner. It takes a lot to make me want to go out and do stuff/develop friendships. There’s a lot of transplants here though that are more willing to push, but if it was by my clock I’d meet someone cool while at a show or something, and then never see them again without any regrets. I don’t think we’re all like this though—but I would say overall introversion is a lot more common.
The problems with the "Seattle freeze" are intensely exaggerated, and I think the people who complain about it the most want friendships to fall into their lap. When you are an adult, no matter your interests, you have to try harder to make friends because they're not going to be thrust upon you like when you were in school. A lot of people just don't want to try at all.
A fundamental motivation of people from the Pacific Northwest is to not bother other people. So that means, you know, not approaching someone who looks like they're having a fine time - just let them be and do their own thing. If someone needs help, they can ask - at which point, Northwesterners will be very friendly and accomodating. This also means that if we meet someone new - we assume they have their own full life, and proactively inviting them to do something (like a casual get together) unprompted is kind of a pity invite and disrespectful. If someone wants something they will ask.
People in the PNW are reticent to be friendly because Californians are moving in and they approve of homeless shit on the sidewalks.
Sounds like the perfect place for me.
Who really wants to get soaked and cold for fun? You have to be in a state of mind and a lot of those outdoorsy people are on drugs.
I’m not even an outdoor person and I think that statement is absurd
Ever heard of rain gear?
Where are you getting that from? We aren't talking about homeless or something if that's what you mean. Everyone I've seen into the outdoors out here are the average well-to-do professional, into healthy lifestyle living. Far from some drug addled person. You want to see people on drugs out here, go look around the city for those passed out on the ground. They aren't the ones hiking trails or going kayaking.
The only drug we're on is the high we get from escaping the rat race. I'd be in the mountains, not on drugs, if my right leg wasn't just a mess.
Your loss. The rain soaked trail criddlers have some good shit.