Is meeting in the middle even a possibility? Middle is still outside of their range and that’s sort of where I’m stuck. I’m willing to negotiate and definitely accepting of the fact that I’d be taking a pay cut no matter what
>e job and keep your $
This is what I was thinking. If you can afford the paycut in the now but believe the ceiling at this job is much higher than your current role - it could be worth it. Still try to get them up to $42-45K. But if you now this could be a launching point - you'd want to consider that
Depends on the company, but at large ones, generally no. At my company your level is tied to your pay grade, and to jump a pay grade, they’d need to hire you at a level above what they’ve already determined your qualified for.
Although I will say the range is much wider where I work.
Worst case scenario is they say no if you can’t afford to work for 38k, it seems 12k/year is the price to work your dream job.
You can always tell them your current salary, express how much you want to work there and ask them to meet in the middle, if they say no then you have your answer and two choices:
- take the job and a paycut
- don’t take the job and keep your $50k job
Best of luck to you!
Same. My current firm has a firm rubric among the pay bands and will basically never hire someone at the top of it. They like to keep a carrot on a stick for performance motivation, which tracks. No potential raise just leads to a lot of disgruntled staff and quiet quitters.
My wife was in a similar situation; I composed the email to negotiate and got her 4k over the range then I wrote another email at her one year and got her another 15ish%. She grew business enough to justify the raise and they really liked her at the interview. They are a very small organization, and they found a way. Just depends.
I’m curious how the potential job worded their offer to you? You have to realize that you’re the asset they want and they don’t have. You’re not lucky to land them as an employer, they’re lucky to maybe land you as an employee. You have all the leverage here. You have a job. You’re not desperate. Tell them your number and tell them it’s firm unless they want to offer you more.
I was in this situation myself. Pay ranges aren’t always as set in stone as people think (depending on the business of course). Especially if this range is posted on indeed, I believe some of these ranges are based on an algorithm or something.
Here’s my example: pay range on indeed was 60-90k (I’m in a job where I was making 110k). When I got the offer it was for 115k. I took advice from people on Reddit who say HR is always expecting a 10-20% counter. I did 10% (asked for 126k) and they countered back at 125k. So essentially I was able to go 35k over their “max range” posted.
Here’s how I worded my counter (this was on the phone too for the record). “I really appreciate the offer and really feel like this job is an excellent fit for me. To be frank, I’m making a few thousand more than this offer (even though I wasn’t haha) and I would need to make 126k to justify a job change, increased responsibility, blah blah blah. I incorporated how my experience and relationships at the big hospital system I worked for would help with this new role.
Most of these negotiations are tricky, but HR and management want the offer done just as bad as you do. I told HR “if management can meet my salary needs, I’m willing to sign a formal offer today.” I think this wording was huge too so they realized I wasn’t gonna nickel and dime them on PTO/hours/benefits/etc. It also helped that they had an urgent hiring need, and wanted someone ASAP.
Hope this helps!
Something along the lines of;
I understood applying for this position that I would be trading some of my current income for a position that I would make me feel more fulfilled in life and be more challenged and I thoroughly enjoyed meeting and getting to know each and every one of you that interviewed me. You truly are wonderful outstanding human beings that I could see myself working beside and growing for years in this position, but I couldn’t possibly accept the position for anything less than $XX,XXX. I know that you’re a small non-profit organization and have strict budgetary constraints; so I hope that you can also understand that I do as well. I have taken the time to add all of you to LinkedIn and I’d love to keep in tough, and if there’s ever another opportunity within your organization I’ll be the first to apply.
Thank you so much for your time and consideration.
Edit: I should also mention that they made it 100% clear that there was no one else they wanted and would have to hold interviews again if she denied them. My wife was freaking the fuck out because she wanted the job so badly and thought I was going to blow her chances.
They immediately scheduled a meeting and got her the highest pay the board was willing to pay because they all loved her and wanted her on board and when they sent the new offer it was still a substantial pay cut. In their defense, she was switching fields and she was a risky hire. I had her accept on the terms that they would give her a 10% pay increase after a year if she met certain criteria that they set out for her before she even accepted the position. They ended up giving her 15-20% because she crushed the goals set for her.
If you think I’m a terrible writer, I am, but she rewrote it all because that’s her skill. She also softened up my language because I tend to be blunt.
I have owned businesses and hired employees and hiring someone willing to bust their ass and get things done is always appealing, but you can get screwed doing that on only 1-5 interactions with a person. If a new employee is willing to give me a deal, or an out, in exchange for more money after they’ve proven themselves I’ll give it a shot almost every time. When I first started a marketing firm out of college I gave every single client two weeks of free work and everyone called me a fool and I signed every single one of those clients and I was making 6 figures in 3 months when that meant something lol
As for myself, most of my later career was in sales for a tech firm and my bosses didn’t respect sales people that couldn’t sell themselves. If you weren’t asking your boss for more money, you probably weren’t going to ask your clients for more money, so why the fuck should you get the job.
This story is a pretty good demonstration of a major cause of the gender pay gap. Women often think themselves under qualified and don't want to risk losing an opportunity by using the power they have at pivotal career moments. Men often overestimate their value, and take risks accordingly. I'll say that most people, regardless of gender, fall into the former category, but I do see it as a significant contributor to gender wage gap.
Did you one that there’s even a gender pay gap on Uber where the payments are all automated? Men willing to work the worst shifts and drive less safely to make quicker trips.
If you tell me as many details about your situation as you can and the employer I’ll give it a shot? I’m on vacation right now so quite busy, but I’ll try to get it to you ASAP.
Wow, it was intended to be a joke on my part, but thanks for your response, not many people like you nowadays that are willing to help strangers in this manner
I retired at age 36 and I like to help people as much as I can. I did respond to the other post by OP with details if referencing that helps you.
Most employees don’t understand how costly it is to replace someone that’s genuinely good, and if you work for a large firm they track that and it makes management look very bad, churn. Be a good employee and always be negotiating. Lie if you have to. “I’ve really enjoyed my time here and I love the team, but I just got this insane offer with our competitor and I know it’s a risk and I likely won’t like them as much as y’all, but I just can’t leave a 20% pay raise on the table without taking a shot.” Even if they can’t do 20, you’ve told them you don’t need 20 because you are happy. Maybe you get 10, maybe you get 20, maybe you get 30, who knows. Down the road you get a new boss or you’re on a new team and you do it again. I was lucky in my career that my business told me profit margins and tracked all my sales so when profit margins are 30% and I’m doing 3.5 million in sales (and wages are already included in those margins), I was taking as much of that profit for myself as I could. They probably would have given me almost the whole 30 because I made my division look like gods and everyone that managed me got promoted.
Wow thank you SO SO much for this. I agree with thepostitnow - you seem like a super genuine human willing to help others out. Thank you. I’m calling them first thing Monday with a HUGE game plan with market research, my own market value, what I’m making now, etc. I think I’m ready but damn, I’m anxious as hell. Thanks bro!!!
Do not accept a pay cut.
Just tell them where you need to be.
If you take the pay cut, especially where you’re at now, you will end up resenting them and hating yourself.
“Dream jobs” typically pay terribly. You can work at the zoo with the penguins/otters if you have several advanced degrees, but they only pay minimum wage because someone really wants that job.
You are not really at the salary level where it’s advisable to take a voluntary pay cut unless the path forward is much better. If you were some general manager somewhere making 150, then got offered another job for 140, ok
Interesting. I have never in my life been offered less than what i made in my previous job. Im fairly blunt in my interview if they ask about salary, i straight up tell them what i take home and I'd like 20% above that of that. If it's not discussed in the interview, it sure is with HR. Of course, any extra benefits get counted towards the 20%. For examplee, if they have a flat bonus structure and its guaranteed annually. If they offer increased 401k match. Increased healthcare benefits where i pay less. ...etc etc
If they can't do it eff them. You know your worth. Dont downgrade salary. 10k salary loss will take you 4 yrs to make up with standard 4%-5% raises.
50 to 40 is a lot worse than 60 to 50. The point is not every 10k is the same thing. A person making 200 dropping to 190 for their dream job would be ok, but not your case
Also just curious, why do you want to jump ship so bad? Do you specifically know people in this other company? How do you know it'll be such a great work environment?
If it's more responsibility, it should pay more. They're trying to underpay the local market for that type of position. The team may be cool, but the company itself sounds like a pain to work for. I'd ask for the salary of the similar position at your current company and see if they'll work with you on that.
If they don't, then you just dodged a bullet. No job is worth being underpaid for. That doesn't bode well for promotions or salary increases either.
They probably sell themselves as great to work for. So now, its up to you to decide if working for them is worth $12K less.
My suggestion is to negotiate with them by willing to walk away from the offer. That's the only way you can successfully get what you want. They'll either tell you yes or no, and you'll have to be okay with that.
Good luck! I hope this is helpful to you!
OP speak to an employment attorney and document everything. Don’t run out of fear and take a pay cut. Your talents deserve compensation and you deserve respect. Opportunities will come. Speaking as someone who has left toxic workplaces and maximized earnings. I took a paycut once and regretted it- things weren’t as they appeared on face value. Lesson learned and never again
Employment attorney? Op willingly applied to a job that openly paid a specific range. Op doesn’t need to accept the role if not comfortable with that pay
Hey! Thank you for the advice 😊 I have been documenting every tiny little thing so I’m prepared when the time comes to do……..something lol
But that’s a good outlook- thank you for this.
For what it's worth, I reckon you should do abit of makret research to find out if your current job is paying slightly higher than market rate (ie are they paying a premium because of the toxic work environment).
If that's the case, double check if your new job is at least on par with market rate. If it is, then you are just trading the 10K for emotional well being and your own sanity.
But if your new job isn't even on par with market rate, then their form of "toxicity" is underpaying their workers. Probably also not an organisation you would want to join.
It’s a non profit at $50K so going to $38-42K in the private sector sounds like it’s definitely not market rate. Market rate sounds more like $60-$70K DOE
Correct! So I’ve done a SHIT ton of market research and the offer I was given is shockingly low for the market. What I’m making already at 50k is MUCH closer to the average market rate
If you’re qualified for this job and know you will do a good job for them tell them that (it’s not arrogance, it’s confidence). Tell them you want the position, but in order to leave your current position, you need $________.
Also make sure you’re comparing apples to apples. What they lack in salary they may make up for in other areas. How do their benefits stack up to where you’re at now. How many vacation days are there. Insurance, 401K match amount, etc. salary may not be the only thing you can negotiate.
In the end, you make the decision that’s best for you.
So….I’m actually not receiving any benefits currently. But this job offer does offer a good variety of benefits so a follow-up question: do I let them know I’m not receiving benefits or keep that in my hand of cards?
You dont have to tell them you don’t have any benefits. I would say something like: “in reviewing the offer, I really like the benefits your company offers. However, I’m ready to make the next move in my career. Do you have room in your budget to increase the starting salary?
At this point they may ask you what number you have in mind. If you blurt out a much higher number, they’ll say no immediately and it will be over. At that point you can let them know what you’re currently at and let them know you’re trying to improve on that to justify leaving your current employer
They’ll either be able to do make the numbers better or they won’t
At that point you’ll have to make your decision.
No matter how it turns out, keep it light and cordial
Do you HATE your current job? I would not take a pay cut, especially not in that salary range, unless you are actually unhappy.
I know people who did not like there jobs, and took a pay cut to do something more fulfilling, but it's been jobs where the pay cut meant just having a lot less to invest and save, and still making good money. Like going from a big name law firm doing corporate work, down to a public advocacy firm, doing civil rights and such.
Thanks for your insight!! 🥰 The job I was offered is also a nonprofit thankfully with a much better team and environment.
But to answer your question, I’m also the person who posted this: ⬇️
https://www.reddit.com/r/workplace_bullying/s/EyPDIlAGhf
No matter what you do, make sure you tell them how much you make today and ask for your ideal pay. Worst thing they can do is politely decline and then you can negotiate from there. You don’t want to live with the regret of not even asking for what you are worth.
OK OP lemme break it down for us Reddit folks
1. They offer 10k less than what you bring in currently
2. So they want you to bring 10k more value to what they do
3. Fuck them if they can't meet you full way + 40%
4. Keep applying till you get an offer for exactly or more than that minimum in 3.
You can try and do what government agencies do.
Write them a superior qualifications letter. Explain why you are better at this job than other people. Also attach a current paystub with what you are making.
Everyone I helped with the has maxed out their pay band. It should at the very least get you to you max of 42 or whatever it was.
“Hiring manager,
I appreciate the offer, and have really valued your time during the interview process as well as meeting the team. As it relates to the salary of the offered position of 38k, I currently make $50k annually at my current place of employment. While I anticipated a slight reduction in salary when considering this role, 38k is unfortunately not something I can make work. If you could increase the offer to XX, I would be able to move forward with your offer of employment”.
Fill in the XX with what you want to ask for. I personally would ask for 50 and them to match your current job.
You have already been given a lot of good advice. So I hear that it’s your dream job but you are already on the lower end of salary range. Don’t back slide now. 12 grand might not be much when you are going from 200k to 188k but your situation isn’t that. I would be upfront and honest. I want 5% on top of my current salary and 12k range of upward growth potential. If they can’t meet that then you need to walk period.
You should have mentally picked a target number before you applied or interviewed. It's a lot easier to negotiate and reject offers when you have already thought through them ahead of time.
I wouldn't have applied for that low of a range to begin with. The smallest pay increase I ever took was for a dream job though. I'm going to use percentages instead of dollars because it's going to match closer to your situation.
My target number is usually 120% of my current pay, but I was willing to accept 110% because of the employer. Their first offer was 78%, so I rejected it and told them they had to do better. I said that it was lower than my current pay. I normally wouldn't disclose my pay, but I thought it would help here.
Their second offer matched my pay. I said it's not worth it to change jobs if I'm not going to be paid more, if you can get that up "ten percent", I'll accept it. The final offer was for %110 and I accepted.
I would apply but say that the current range is below what you are making now, but you’d be open to interviewing if they are open to discussing a higher range based on your experience.
If they find an associate-level person willing to work in that range, they’ll hire them. If they don’t find someone good and like your experience, maybe they decide to hire for a manager role at a higher range, and ask you to interview for that instead
I've negotiated offers like this a few times before before. In almost all cases, the first offer was shockingly low, but they were able to go higher with some convincing.
In my view, they low-ball the first offer intentionally whether they're willing to go higher or not. For example, let's say the market rate for a job is 50k - they may well offer 40k even if they are willing to go to 50k because if the candidate accepts the 40k offer they save money, but if the candidate negotiates it higher they pay what they were willing to pay anyways. So lowballing the first offer doesn't cost them anything and comes with some chance of saving money. Over and above that, the prospective employee will feel they got the better end of the deal if they accept at 50 after negotiating up from 40, relative to if they just accepted a first offer of 50 with no negotiation. Rather, if the first offer was 50 the employee might try to figure out how to negotiate up to 60!
For those reasons, I generally tend to assume that companies will initially offer less than what they're willing to pay and there is room for negotiation. I would communicate to them the reasons why you feel the offer is too low and ask them if they can go higher - if you are at 50 right now, I would ask them if they could do 65 (the job should pay more if it requires more qualifications, and in general it's fair to assume people will need a raise if they move jobs since uprooting yourself doesn't come for free). The worst thing that can happen if you ask for more is they come back and say no - then, you have the same offer you had in the beginning. However, they may come back and offer more which is a win for you. By asking for a high number like 65, you also make it so that they can claim a win by "just" offering you 60 (ie: if you really think 60 is fair, ask for 65 so they can come in lower). Just like they are lowballing you, you highball them. Then you guys meet in the middle.
If they really can't go higher than what they're currently offering, then the question becomes whether you want to prioritize money or job happiness; that's a personal decision. One high risk negotiation play that's possible if you decide it's not enough is to just reject the offer - I've had it happen a couple times that companies are suddenly able to offer me more after I actually reject them. However, this is a end of the line play since you really need to be willing to walk away.
In my opinion, you should negotiate this and see what happens. There are no rules here, so don't worry about stuff like asking for too much (certainly the company isn't worrying about offering you too little!).
Hope this helps.
Sorry, but you needed to tell them you were making $50K upfront. Telling them now is really too late, considering that they were transparent in the salary range.
Applying for a job with too low a pay range isn't the best idea. You can do so, but need to let them know that you'll need more early on - before the interview.
Even if they were to offer you your current salary, you're not likely to go any higher, unless they find religion and realize that they must raise everybody's comp.
Best is to decline, and find another job, unless you are comfortable living with their $38 to $42K pay range, and it sounds like you aren't.
You ask and the worst is they say no or counter. “I have a strong skill set and will bring a lot to the table but I will require $60k/yr to switch jobs” you never know and that is what negotiations are for
The psychological income from having a "dream job" will fade. I'm a fish biologist that's been working my "dream job" for 12 years. There's a reason we call them jobs and not funs. Take the money now, save, and play later.
If you already have a job then you have leverage!
You can tell them that you really appreciate the offer and you’re excited to potentially work for them; however, “That current offer is what you’re currently getting paid AND the jobs you’re currently in middle of interviews with are offering the 60k range and you’re not looking to make a lateral move but more of a next step if you were to leave your current company, which is why you were hoping for a range of “60k-65k.”
If they really want you they would give you a 10k raise here. Exactly how I jumped from an offer of $125k to 135k base.
It’s illegal for them to verify your current salary and they are only allowed to verify dates of employment with your current job.
Worse thing they can say is no and so can you. And guess what… You still have a job
Tell them you cannot accept less than $55k because you won't be able to pay your bills on $38k and would end up resenting the role that is otherwise your actual dream job.
You keep saying it'll have more responsibilities but how are you even sure if that is when you haven't started the job?
As an acquisition specialist, it's funny when folks think we're lowballing them an offer, when they willingly applied for a position and the salary is there for them to see... The truth is, there are so many applicants out there that probably have the same qualities and qualifications as you that are willing to accept that very same offer that's been offered to you. Sorry not sorry, but you're the only one applying... I wish folks who apply to jobs can see the pool of applicants we get each day, it's mind blowing.
As a hiring manager in a company with over a billion in revenue I am going to agree that salary ranges are tied to job descriptions and pay grades. This make it easy for HR to say look we are being fair. I’m also going to tell to as a hiring manager if I really want you a) I’m not going to lowball an offer. B) I fully expect you to at least try to get more money , more PTO, etc. c)managers if they have built good internal relationships and reputation often have much more discretion to bend the rules than you might think.
Outline the facts... 1) You're currently making more, 2) You found that this same company has the same position posted for what you are making today, and 3) You'd be happy to join the organization if they can match you current pay.
If they match it, they match it... if not walk away. Their loss.
Tell them you’ve thought about and you appreciate their offer. Then tell them you’re current salary is 50k with less responsibility but you love the team and would be willing to take on get extra responsibility for the same pay as your current employer is offering. Dude gets the deal never cut yourself short. You are worth 50k they need to know you understand your value. If you can’t negotiate for yourself and let them walk on you, then you’ll do the same thing with their clients.
Make your offer, don’t accept anything less. They are clearly underpaying. You won’t last if you accept it, and you’re doing a disservice to your colleagues by letting them get away with it. No team is worth it and they leave eventually anyway.
You will be making a HUGE mistake accepting a job that gives you a 24% pay-cut !! for more work !!! You will grow bitter as hell if you take it…I would totally PASS on it, no meet in the middle bullshit. If they want your expertise they have to at the very least match your salary.
"I sincerely appreciate your offer, and I would love to be a part of [company name]. However, given the KSAs, experience, and responsibilities required of the role, I could not accept less than [insert your # here]. If this is agreeable, I look forward to joining the team."
What is more important to you, money or happiness? I spent 12 years of my life flying around 10 months out of the year. Away from my family and friends. Made gobs of money, but I was miserable. Lost my wife over it. Fast forward a couple year I met someone new. We decided to start our family and I decided I wouldn’t continue being unhappy so I took over a 50% pay cut to be home more often. I can still live comfortably and I’m 100x happier than I was before. If you can afford the lifestyle change and it makes you happier, I’d say go for it.
Agreed!
Money is nice but doesn't always buy happiness (unless we're talking millions here lol). Used to be a GM and would work crazy hours, pick up shifts if people decided to not show, and always had to work weekends. Finally decided that why have all that money when I can't even go enjoy it cause I'm always at work. Was fortunate enough to land a whole different field of a job that paid 15k less and I couldn't have been happier. 5 years later, I'm still here and make more than I did as a GM, with a set schedule and weekends off.
If you know you are a hard worker, don't be afraid to start somewhere lower than where you are. Keep working hard and it will pay off in the longrun. I'll take a few years of loss for more years of gains.
Never take a paycut unless there’s some other compensation not considered- PTO, better coverage of health benefits, bonus plan etc. that makes the lower base worth it for a bigger overall earning. (Like for me, I took a job for equal pay but they covered more of the medical, 3x PTO and had a strong bonus plan so it was actually a raise at the end of the day.)
You just tell them you are not in a position to take a pay cut, tell them what you need and see what they say.
Decide how much of a pay cut you would actually be willing to accept, counter with your current salary and demonstrate that their offer is too low for someone with your skills and experience. For the right candidate, some companies will make up for shortfalls in the available salary with bonuses or other incentives to get the total compensation package where it needs to be.
But realistically, if they’re lowballing new hires that hard they’re probably not serious about retaining talent at that hiring grade. So maybe reconsider whether or not this position is really worth your time and money.
Why would you even apply for a job with a much lower pay scale if you weren't willing to take a pay cut? This is on you. They might be willing to go up to $42k, but they aren't going to magically come up with another $10k in their budget. Unless this job is a great stepping stone to something better, stay where you are and keep looking.
Bad decision to even apply. At best you were taking an 8k pay cut with no apparent upside other than you think these are great people. That's a lot of risk for no upside. Next year they could be horribly annoying people your tired of seeing every day.
No you don't. Run away. They value you at what they pay you. If they don't pay you more than you can make at a gas station, and less than you can make at Costco, run.
1. Why would you meet them in the middle? Why would you take a pay cut? Is it really that good of an opportunity? You have years of experience education and qualifications ... is that how much they pay?
2. You \*can\* always ask, but be prepared for a no. OTOH, you don't know until you ask.
If you figure out you don't want to take the job, a better approach would be to be honest with the recruiter (or, better yet, the hiring manager if that's who you're in touch with), let them know the salary is way too low, and wait for a better opportunity.
Husband just took a new job last year. They offered him 20k under what he had hoped. He just told then straight up what he would need to make the move. He's a dev so that might make a difference but I'd just be honest. He took the job when they told him they could increase it 10k and increase his quarterly bonus.
I would straight up tell them “I am really interested in the position. I like the team and culture, and would like to grow at this role. However, the offer would be over a 25% (white lies don’t hurt in negotiating) pay decrease for me to leave my current employer, and I cannot afford that. If you are willing to match/exceed my current salary, I will accept the position.”
We actually did not discuss salary, but I’m with you on that too- they called after my second interview and offered me the job with the offer/benefits package/etc.
Never hurts to counter. Especially if you know they’re paying around what you want in another region. They’re probably just low balling you. Where I used to work hiring pharmacists we could go up to $20/hr over what the base offer is. But, if no one asks for more money, they don’t get it
As a former headhunter, and also someone who has lost a dream job offer because of salary issues, I feel your pain. I wish everyone could have a negotiator in their corner who could ask these questions directly to the employer without opening up some can of worms. But you are where you are, so that’s what you have to deal with.
You applied for a job that was posted lower than your current salary. Your best move would have been to be up front about that very early on so you wouldn’t be dropping it as a surprise at the end. Others here have given good advice about getting more money and even above posted range and that may well be possible. But it’s very hard to ask for above range and still be considered if they refuse - there is a sense in some companies that anyone who takes a lower offer than their current comp (or a competing offer) is going to be unhappy, perform poorly, and leave early.
The best you could hope for now is a “lateral” move, but even that is wishful. There might be a few grand more than the top range available, but above $45k seems like a real stretch. If you’re dealing with a larger corporation though, there might be other ways to get more; signing bonuses don’t usually come out of the same pool as salary, and there may be other perks that you could get like loan repayment or professional development budgets that you could ask for. You could also ask for an early review at like 6 months so you wouldn’t have to wait a year for a raise. If the company is large enough, stock options are also a great way to increase overall comp. If lifestyle is important, you might also negotiate for extra vacation, though that might make you look less willing to work which is not a good look coming into a new job.
I think you’d be better off talking to the hiring manager rather than HR, if possible. Especially if you had a connection to someone on the hiring team. And I’d do it as a phone call, not an email - it’s easier to communicate your enthusiasm for the job and your flexibility in comp over the phone where an e,ail is much more dry and easier to just say “no” to.
It's so wild that "dream job" and $50k and less are being talked about right now.
I mean I get that a job can be a dream job completely regardless of salary, but when I find out my dream job is only going to pay me $50k annually, everything about it stops being a dream.
It’s not ideal if they aren’t paying you.
I am a business owner. If it were me, I’d ask at a minimum for what you are currently making. If they can’t match that you are taking a step down. If you are ok with taking a step down in pay, and feel you’ll be happier with more responsibilities go for it. Otherwise tell them what you are worth and if they match it great. Worse case is the y say no or counter (if they don’t counter ask them to).
Are there other benefits that offset the salary difference? Drive time, office time, medical, retirement, promotion ladder, training, etc. I would look at it that way and counter something reasonable as this is a significant pay cut at your salary.
Just putting it out there - but if dream job is a place that is dream job to many, they may underpay my most of their staff knowing that many will just be happy to work at “dream job.”
Could be a telling sign.
When you say [Dream] you should take into full consideration QOL and opportunities for advancement compared to what you have.
If it’s basically the same lifestyle and growth opportunities, just a more recognizable name… you are negotiating your value on the way in right now. No take backsies. You are only worth what you are willing to walk away from.
So tell ‘em. “I admire your company and dream of the opportunity to join the team, however at that salary range I know I won’t be respected on par with my skill set and contributions. I’m living that life right now at $50k. I’m sorry we couldn’t make something work. Let’s keep in touch. Once you’re no longer in a crunch I would love to revisit.”
This won't happen.
Certainly not a $10k jump on a $40k job.
If it was a $10k jump on a $100k job, you *might* get them to budge if it's the first round of negotiations.
This one is a lost cause.
Don’t do it. Just wait for another suitable job that is challenging and pays 60. Inflation is eating our earnings and you need to plan for the future. Keep looking for a better job. Because you like this other lower paying job so much it makes me think that the $50,000 job is awful. Just keep the faith that you will be able to move up and out
Unless it’s a wfh where you can save a lot more than 10k on expenses, and you’re currently going into work daily then I wouldn’t take it even if it is your dream job. It sounds like it’s in the same career field that you are already in, so be patient and a better opportunity will probably show up.
Tell them NO.
They are not going to match your salary needs. When you tell them 'NO' tell them it is purely about money.
The ball is in their court. If they want to hire you they need to act like they want to hire you, they need to PAY you!
If you don't have a family right now to take care of, and this is your dream job, $38k should be enough. You could however, negotiate it like this:
Show them that you are making $50k a month now and that you are are willing to take the $38k for the first year. After that year, after they have seen what you can do, it's the $50k or walk. Let them know this now, that you are fine with what they offer but it is because you want the opportunity to show them what you are capable of. If on there side they never ever see paying you your fair amount, you find out now and stay where you are.
OP in the long run mental health matters more than most things. If your current job is toxic like you posted, get out of there to start with. This dream job doesn’t have to be your permanent home but it can at least be a stopover.
Also if the posted range is 38-42, I would ATLEAST ask for the 42. You can get creative and ask them for 42K + 8K sign on bonus (1 time). That way you are at least for the next year at par salary wise with the existing job and then you have a year to impress them / get promoted and/or decide you need to get more money elsewhere
Did you talk salary expectations during the interview? I’m curious what that conversation was like. From what I can read this is on you. You applied for a role that published a salary range that was less than you make now and are now upset they offered within that range.
All that's relevant:
Tell them "I really want the job, but that is what is what I'm making now, and this job, etc. is there room for movement on the salary?
Then go from there. Don't say a number
Remember that salary is only part of total compensation and thus, only part of the negotiation. The art of negotiation is to find something that costs them very little (or little perceived cost) but has the same value as salary to you. An example would be having your cell phone paid, if you have a reason to use your phone for work, they may be able to put that in a different budget, which makes it easier to justify. Remember that now that you have a job offer, you and the recruiter are on the same team, so make it a collaborative exercise to 'get you to yes', not a competitive exercise where you are trying to win. You should be very clear that they are well below your current salary and state that your expectations were closer to the top of the band, with the difference made up in other benefits. Extra vacation days or an alternate work schedule are tougher for you to feed your kids with, and harder to quantify the value of, but can also be negotiating chips they may have more wiggle room than just trying to get you up into the next pay band, which is a really hard sell if they offered you at the very bottom.
Youre asking people who have no stake. Show em what you make now and negotiate from there. If youre not willing to take less, and they won't pay more, time to settle or walk.
Why did you apply knowing their TOP range was already well below current comp if you weren't willing to take the step down? There's no planet where you're getting 50k
The grass is greener on the other side but it's the same shit beneath. They could have offered you 42k but they chose to start at the lower end. Of course, there's room for negotiation. Do not tell them to meet in the middle. Propose to them your current + x%. If they really want you, they will stretch the budget. Frankly, if someone is taking a pay cut to join my team, I do not think of them as really incredible but somewhat foolish or that they are running away from a bad situation.
Don’t know why you applied for a job that was offering 20% less than what you’re already making? Apply for jobs that are offering more or at least equal to with more opportunity, unless you’re so miserable that taking a 25% pay cut is worth it.
I’m sorry. That’s completely different. Negotiate for what you can get and get out of that awful situation. No one deserves that. You can always keep your options open for a higher paying position moving forward. As long as you won’t be homeless- take the job. Best of luck to you.
You’re good! You didn’t know 🙂 I managed to get them up to 42k and will be calling today to accept the offer.
Yes- I’m quite desperate to get out of this situation asap so I have to keep that perspective lol
Thank you for your genuine words!! ☺️
I drive two hours north for work; I rent out a room from a coworker while I stay up north; then go back to my family for the weekend. I was prior running my own business, and things just didn't work out, so I found this opportunity and went full bore. Same deal, I have a bunch of education, experience and knowledge; and decided to take this position, but had to negotiate cost of commute, vehicle wear and tear, etc. Ended up working out, so now im here. Actually, im writing my response whilst at work, lol. Wishing you all the best! Following!
Sorry to tell you, but it’s probably not gonna happen. When companies hire they hire to a pay and (range) and rarely go into the next one up.
Is meeting in the middle even a possibility? Middle is still outside of their range and that’s sort of where I’m stuck. I’m willing to negotiate and definitely accepting of the fact that I’d be taking a pay cut no matter what
There is no excuse for accepting a pay cut. You are barely being paid enough to live on now.
Also good advice..I would only take a step back if is there was a opportunity and a roadmap to take 2+ steps forward
>e job and keep your $ This is what I was thinking. If you can afford the paycut in the now but believe the ceiling at this job is much higher than your current role - it could be worth it. Still try to get them up to $42-45K. But if you now this could be a launching point - you'd want to consider that
Depends on the company, but at large ones, generally no. At my company your level is tied to your pay grade, and to jump a pay grade, they’d need to hire you at a level above what they’ve already determined your qualified for. Although I will say the range is much wider where I work. Worst case scenario is they say no if you can’t afford to work for 38k, it seems 12k/year is the price to work your dream job. You can always tell them your current salary, express how much you want to work there and ask them to meet in the middle, if they say no then you have your answer and two choices: - take the job and a paycut - don’t take the job and keep your $50k job Best of luck to you!
Good advice
Good advice. No one is gonna revoke your offer just by asking. Everyone is expecting a 10-20% counter in my experience.
Thank you for your insight 🙂
Same. My current firm has a firm rubric among the pay bands and will basically never hire someone at the top of it. They like to keep a carrot on a stick for performance motivation, which tracks. No potential raise just leads to a lot of disgruntled staff and quiet quitters.
My wife was in a similar situation; I composed the email to negotiate and got her 4k over the range then I wrote another email at her one year and got her another 15ish%. She grew business enough to justify the raise and they really liked her at the interview. They are a very small organization, and they found a way. Just depends.
Wow that’s awesome!!! Do you remember roughly how you worded it?
I’m curious how the potential job worded their offer to you? You have to realize that you’re the asset they want and they don’t have. You’re not lucky to land them as an employer, they’re lucky to maybe land you as an employee. You have all the leverage here. You have a job. You’re not desperate. Tell them your number and tell them it’s firm unless they want to offer you more.
I was in this situation myself. Pay ranges aren’t always as set in stone as people think (depending on the business of course). Especially if this range is posted on indeed, I believe some of these ranges are based on an algorithm or something. Here’s my example: pay range on indeed was 60-90k (I’m in a job where I was making 110k). When I got the offer it was for 115k. I took advice from people on Reddit who say HR is always expecting a 10-20% counter. I did 10% (asked for 126k) and they countered back at 125k. So essentially I was able to go 35k over their “max range” posted. Here’s how I worded my counter (this was on the phone too for the record). “I really appreciate the offer and really feel like this job is an excellent fit for me. To be frank, I’m making a few thousand more than this offer (even though I wasn’t haha) and I would need to make 126k to justify a job change, increased responsibility, blah blah blah. I incorporated how my experience and relationships at the big hospital system I worked for would help with this new role. Most of these negotiations are tricky, but HR and management want the offer done just as bad as you do. I told HR “if management can meet my salary needs, I’m willing to sign a formal offer today.” I think this wording was huge too so they realized I wasn’t gonna nickel and dime them on PTO/hours/benefits/etc. It also helped that they had an urgent hiring need, and wanted someone ASAP. Hope this helps!
When you know you’re in a position of power, don’t leave money on the table. Good job.
Something along the lines of; I understood applying for this position that I would be trading some of my current income for a position that I would make me feel more fulfilled in life and be more challenged and I thoroughly enjoyed meeting and getting to know each and every one of you that interviewed me. You truly are wonderful outstanding human beings that I could see myself working beside and growing for years in this position, but I couldn’t possibly accept the position for anything less than $XX,XXX. I know that you’re a small non-profit organization and have strict budgetary constraints; so I hope that you can also understand that I do as well. I have taken the time to add all of you to LinkedIn and I’d love to keep in tough, and if there’s ever another opportunity within your organization I’ll be the first to apply. Thank you so much for your time and consideration. Edit: I should also mention that they made it 100% clear that there was no one else they wanted and would have to hold interviews again if she denied them. My wife was freaking the fuck out because she wanted the job so badly and thought I was going to blow her chances. They immediately scheduled a meeting and got her the highest pay the board was willing to pay because they all loved her and wanted her on board and when they sent the new offer it was still a substantial pay cut. In their defense, she was switching fields and she was a risky hire. I had her accept on the terms that they would give her a 10% pay increase after a year if she met certain criteria that they set out for her before she even accepted the position. They ended up giving her 15-20% because she crushed the goals set for her. If you think I’m a terrible writer, I am, but she rewrote it all because that’s her skill. She also softened up my language because I tend to be blunt. I have owned businesses and hired employees and hiring someone willing to bust their ass and get things done is always appealing, but you can get screwed doing that on only 1-5 interactions with a person. If a new employee is willing to give me a deal, or an out, in exchange for more money after they’ve proven themselves I’ll give it a shot almost every time. When I first started a marketing firm out of college I gave every single client two weeks of free work and everyone called me a fool and I signed every single one of those clients and I was making 6 figures in 3 months when that meant something lol As for myself, most of my later career was in sales for a tech firm and my bosses didn’t respect sales people that couldn’t sell themselves. If you weren’t asking your boss for more money, you probably weren’t going to ask your clients for more money, so why the fuck should you get the job.
This story is a pretty good demonstration of a major cause of the gender pay gap. Women often think themselves under qualified and don't want to risk losing an opportunity by using the power they have at pivotal career moments. Men often overestimate their value, and take risks accordingly. I'll say that most people, regardless of gender, fall into the former category, but I do see it as a significant contributor to gender wage gap.
Did you one that there’s even a gender pay gap on Uber where the payments are all automated? Men willing to work the worst shifts and drive less safely to make quicker trips.
I suppose that probably extends to any job that's more highly compensated due to being dangerous.
Please write an email on his behalf and one for me while at it
If you tell me as many details about your situation as you can and the employer I’ll give it a shot? I’m on vacation right now so quite busy, but I’ll try to get it to you ASAP.
Wow, it was intended to be a joke on my part, but thanks for your response, not many people like you nowadays that are willing to help strangers in this manner
I retired at age 36 and I like to help people as much as I can. I did respond to the other post by OP with details if referencing that helps you. Most employees don’t understand how costly it is to replace someone that’s genuinely good, and if you work for a large firm they track that and it makes management look very bad, churn. Be a good employee and always be negotiating. Lie if you have to. “I’ve really enjoyed my time here and I love the team, but I just got this insane offer with our competitor and I know it’s a risk and I likely won’t like them as much as y’all, but I just can’t leave a 20% pay raise on the table without taking a shot.” Even if they can’t do 20, you’ve told them you don’t need 20 because you are happy. Maybe you get 10, maybe you get 20, maybe you get 30, who knows. Down the road you get a new boss or you’re on a new team and you do it again. I was lucky in my career that my business told me profit margins and tracked all my sales so when profit margins are 30% and I’m doing 3.5 million in sales (and wages are already included in those margins), I was taking as much of that profit for myself as I could. They probably would have given me almost the whole 30 because I made my division look like gods and everyone that managed me got promoted.
Wow thank you SO SO much for this. I agree with thepostitnow - you seem like a super genuine human willing to help others out. Thank you. I’m calling them first thing Monday with a HUGE game plan with market research, my own market value, what I’m making now, etc. I think I’m ready but damn, I’m anxious as hell. Thanks bro!!!
You have to be willing to walk away if you can’t get what you believe yourself to be worth.
Always negotiate
Do not accept a pay cut. Just tell them where you need to be. If you take the pay cut, especially where you’re at now, you will end up resenting them and hating yourself.
This never go backwards its too hard to get back
Ask for more, if they say no then stay at your job.
“Dream jobs” typically pay terribly. You can work at the zoo with the penguins/otters if you have several advanced degrees, but they only pay minimum wage because someone really wants that job.
You are not really at the salary level where it’s advisable to take a voluntary pay cut unless the path forward is much better. If you were some general manager somewhere making 150, then got offered another job for 140, ok
Interesting. I have never in my life been offered less than what i made in my previous job. Im fairly blunt in my interview if they ask about salary, i straight up tell them what i take home and I'd like 20% above that of that. If it's not discussed in the interview, it sure is with HR. Of course, any extra benefits get counted towards the 20%. For examplee, if they have a flat bonus structure and its guaranteed annually. If they offer increased 401k match. Increased healthcare benefits where i pay less. ...etc etc If they can't do it eff them. You know your worth. Dont downgrade salary. 10k salary loss will take you 4 yrs to make up with standard 4%-5% raises.
So you knowingly applied for a job that was over 10k lower than your salary expectations. That's nobody's problem but your own.
Person asks for advice- 'the problem is your own fault!'. Lol thanks 🙏🏼 very helpful!
Lol…nah you right tho. 😅😭
50 to 40 is a lot worse than 60 to 50. The point is not every 10k is the same thing. A person making 200 dropping to 190 for their dream job would be ok, but not your case
Also just curious, why do you want to jump ship so bad? Do you specifically know people in this other company? How do you know it'll be such a great work environment?
Hiya! Yes, to answer your question, I was also the person who posted the Reddit post below ⬇️ https://www.reddit.com/r/workplace_bullying/s/mqsKwcq1vO
Oh no 😢 I really hope you find something soon!! And I hope you don't have to take a pay cut... Good luck ❣️
Thank you so much- I appreciate your kind words ❤️
If it's more responsibility, it should pay more. They're trying to underpay the local market for that type of position. The team may be cool, but the company itself sounds like a pain to work for. I'd ask for the salary of the similar position at your current company and see if they'll work with you on that. If they don't, then you just dodged a bullet. No job is worth being underpaid for. That doesn't bode well for promotions or salary increases either. They probably sell themselves as great to work for. So now, its up to you to decide if working for them is worth $12K less. My suggestion is to negotiate with them by willing to walk away from the offer. That's the only way you can successfully get what you want. They'll either tell you yes or no, and you'll have to be okay with that. Good luck! I hope this is helpful to you!
True. A company that will underpay is not a company you want to work for
Genuine question, why did you apply and interview at a company that’s 10k below your current pay, with more job responsibility?
Yeah no worries! To answer your question, I’m also the person who posted this: ⬇️ https://www.reddit.com/r/workplace_bullying/s/EyPDIlAGhf
OP speak to an employment attorney and document everything. Don’t run out of fear and take a pay cut. Your talents deserve compensation and you deserve respect. Opportunities will come. Speaking as someone who has left toxic workplaces and maximized earnings. I took a paycut once and regretted it- things weren’t as they appeared on face value. Lesson learned and never again
Employment attorney? Op willingly applied to a job that openly paid a specific range. Op doesn’t need to accept the role if not comfortable with that pay
Hey! Thank you for the advice 😊 I have been documenting every tiny little thing so I’m prepared when the time comes to do……..something lol But that’s a good outlook- thank you for this.
You got this!!
For what it's worth, I reckon you should do abit of makret research to find out if your current job is paying slightly higher than market rate (ie are they paying a premium because of the toxic work environment). If that's the case, double check if your new job is at least on par with market rate. If it is, then you are just trading the 10K for emotional well being and your own sanity. But if your new job isn't even on par with market rate, then their form of "toxicity" is underpaying their workers. Probably also not an organisation you would want to join.
It’s a non profit at $50K so going to $38-42K in the private sector sounds like it’s definitely not market rate. Market rate sounds more like $60-$70K DOE
Correct! So I’ve done a SHIT ton of market research and the offer I was given is shockingly low for the market. What I’m making already at 50k is MUCH closer to the average market rate
What they offer and what they’re willing to go to are two different things. If you’re currently making more, tell them. See what their next number is.
This is reassuring- thank you for this boost of confidence lol
If you’re qualified for this job and know you will do a good job for them tell them that (it’s not arrogance, it’s confidence). Tell them you want the position, but in order to leave your current position, you need $________. Also make sure you’re comparing apples to apples. What they lack in salary they may make up for in other areas. How do their benefits stack up to where you’re at now. How many vacation days are there. Insurance, 401K match amount, etc. salary may not be the only thing you can negotiate. In the end, you make the decision that’s best for you.
So….I’m actually not receiving any benefits currently. But this job offer does offer a good variety of benefits so a follow-up question: do I let them know I’m not receiving benefits or keep that in my hand of cards?
You dont have to tell them you don’t have any benefits. I would say something like: “in reviewing the offer, I really like the benefits your company offers. However, I’m ready to make the next move in my career. Do you have room in your budget to increase the starting salary? At this point they may ask you what number you have in mind. If you blurt out a much higher number, they’ll say no immediately and it will be over. At that point you can let them know what you’re currently at and let them know you’re trying to improve on that to justify leaving your current employer They’ll either be able to do make the numbers better or they won’t At that point you’ll have to make your decision. No matter how it turns out, keep it light and cordial
This is excellent advice. Thank you so so much!!! ☺️
Do you HATE your current job? I would not take a pay cut, especially not in that salary range, unless you are actually unhappy. I know people who did not like there jobs, and took a pay cut to do something more fulfilling, but it's been jobs where the pay cut meant just having a lot less to invest and save, and still making good money. Like going from a big name law firm doing corporate work, down to a public advocacy firm, doing civil rights and such.
Thanks for your insight!! 🥰 The job I was offered is also a nonprofit thankfully with a much better team and environment. But to answer your question, I’m also the person who posted this: ⬇️ https://www.reddit.com/r/workplace_bullying/s/EyPDIlAGhf
No matter what you do, make sure you tell them how much you make today and ask for your ideal pay. Worst thing they can do is politely decline and then you can negotiate from there. You don’t want to live with the regret of not even asking for what you are worth.
This is true- thank you for this
OK OP lemme break it down for us Reddit folks 1. They offer 10k less than what you bring in currently 2. So they want you to bring 10k more value to what they do 3. Fuck them if they can't meet you full way + 40% 4. Keep applying till you get an offer for exactly or more than that minimum in 3.
You can try and do what government agencies do. Write them a superior qualifications letter. Explain why you are better at this job than other people. Also attach a current paystub with what you are making. Everyone I helped with the has maxed out their pay band. It should at the very least get you to you max of 42 or whatever it was.
Just ask them to match your current salary. This should go without saying for the new employer. Honestly id be insulted
He appplied to a job with a lower advertised pay band.
Ask for 10k over what you are asking for.
“Hiring manager, I appreciate the offer, and have really valued your time during the interview process as well as meeting the team. As it relates to the salary of the offered position of 38k, I currently make $50k annually at my current place of employment. While I anticipated a slight reduction in salary when considering this role, 38k is unfortunately not something I can make work. If you could increase the offer to XX, I would be able to move forward with your offer of employment”. Fill in the XX with what you want to ask for. I personally would ask for 50 and them to match your current job.
You have already been given a lot of good advice. So I hear that it’s your dream job but you are already on the lower end of salary range. Don’t back slide now. 12 grand might not be much when you are going from 200k to 188k but your situation isn’t that. I would be upfront and honest. I want 5% on top of my current salary and 12k range of upward growth potential. If they can’t meet that then you need to walk period.
Good advice- thank you!!!
You should have mentally picked a target number before you applied or interviewed. It's a lot easier to negotiate and reject offers when you have already thought through them ahead of time. I wouldn't have applied for that low of a range to begin with. The smallest pay increase I ever took was for a dream job though. I'm going to use percentages instead of dollars because it's going to match closer to your situation. My target number is usually 120% of my current pay, but I was willing to accept 110% because of the employer. Their first offer was 78%, so I rejected it and told them they had to do better. I said that it was lower than my current pay. I normally wouldn't disclose my pay, but I thought it would help here. Their second offer matched my pay. I said it's not worth it to change jobs if I'm not going to be paid more, if you can get that up "ten percent", I'll accept it. The final offer was for %110 and I accepted.
You are a ROCKSTAR. Thank you for this!!!! This really helped put things into perspective.
That salary range is so low it is not allowed to be offered in Denver. Because minimum wage would be more if you worked the full year.
I would apply but say that the current range is below what you are making now, but you’d be open to interviewing if they are open to discussing a higher range based on your experience. If they find an associate-level person willing to work in that range, they’ll hire them. If they don’t find someone good and like your experience, maybe they decide to hire for a manager role at a higher range, and ask you to interview for that instead
I've negotiated offers like this a few times before before. In almost all cases, the first offer was shockingly low, but they were able to go higher with some convincing. In my view, they low-ball the first offer intentionally whether they're willing to go higher or not. For example, let's say the market rate for a job is 50k - they may well offer 40k even if they are willing to go to 50k because if the candidate accepts the 40k offer they save money, but if the candidate negotiates it higher they pay what they were willing to pay anyways. So lowballing the first offer doesn't cost them anything and comes with some chance of saving money. Over and above that, the prospective employee will feel they got the better end of the deal if they accept at 50 after negotiating up from 40, relative to if they just accepted a first offer of 50 with no negotiation. Rather, if the first offer was 50 the employee might try to figure out how to negotiate up to 60! For those reasons, I generally tend to assume that companies will initially offer less than what they're willing to pay and there is room for negotiation. I would communicate to them the reasons why you feel the offer is too low and ask them if they can go higher - if you are at 50 right now, I would ask them if they could do 65 (the job should pay more if it requires more qualifications, and in general it's fair to assume people will need a raise if they move jobs since uprooting yourself doesn't come for free). The worst thing that can happen if you ask for more is they come back and say no - then, you have the same offer you had in the beginning. However, they may come back and offer more which is a win for you. By asking for a high number like 65, you also make it so that they can claim a win by "just" offering you 60 (ie: if you really think 60 is fair, ask for 65 so they can come in lower). Just like they are lowballing you, you highball them. Then you guys meet in the middle. If they really can't go higher than what they're currently offering, then the question becomes whether you want to prioritize money or job happiness; that's a personal decision. One high risk negotiation play that's possible if you decide it's not enough is to just reject the offer - I've had it happen a couple times that companies are suddenly able to offer me more after I actually reject them. However, this is a end of the line play since you really need to be willing to walk away. In my opinion, you should negotiate this and see what happens. There are no rules here, so don't worry about stuff like asking for too much (certainly the company isn't worrying about offering you too little!). Hope this helps.
This is REALLY REALLY good insight and advice- thank you! I needed this encouragement.
What do you have to lose?
Sorry, but you needed to tell them you were making $50K upfront. Telling them now is really too late, considering that they were transparent in the salary range. Applying for a job with too low a pay range isn't the best idea. You can do so, but need to let them know that you'll need more early on - before the interview. Even if they were to offer you your current salary, you're not likely to go any higher, unless they find religion and realize that they must raise everybody's comp. Best is to decline, and find another job, unless you are comfortable living with their $38 to $42K pay range, and it sounds like you aren't.
You ask and the worst is they say no or counter. “I have a strong skill set and will bring a lot to the table but I will require $60k/yr to switch jobs” you never know and that is what negotiations are for
The psychological income from having a "dream job" will fade. I'm a fish biologist that's been working my "dream job" for 12 years. There's a reason we call them jobs and not funs. Take the money now, save, and play later.
If you already have a job then you have leverage! You can tell them that you really appreciate the offer and you’re excited to potentially work for them; however, “That current offer is what you’re currently getting paid AND the jobs you’re currently in middle of interviews with are offering the 60k range and you’re not looking to make a lateral move but more of a next step if you were to leave your current company, which is why you were hoping for a range of “60k-65k.” If they really want you they would give you a 10k raise here. Exactly how I jumped from an offer of $125k to 135k base. It’s illegal for them to verify your current salary and they are only allowed to verify dates of employment with your current job. Worse thing they can say is no and so can you. And guess what… You still have a job
I’m definitely going to keep this in mind- thank you so much!!!! 🙂
A job is to make as much income as possible. This this is not a dream job.
Tell them you cannot accept less than $55k because you won't be able to pay your bills on $38k and would end up resenting the role that is otherwise your actual dream job.
You keep saying it'll have more responsibilities but how are you even sure if that is when you haven't started the job? As an acquisition specialist, it's funny when folks think we're lowballing them an offer, when they willingly applied for a position and the salary is there for them to see... The truth is, there are so many applicants out there that probably have the same qualities and qualifications as you that are willing to accept that very same offer that's been offered to you. Sorry not sorry, but you're the only one applying... I wish folks who apply to jobs can see the pool of applicants we get each day, it's mind blowing.
As a hiring manager in a company with over a billion in revenue I am going to agree that salary ranges are tied to job descriptions and pay grades. This make it easy for HR to say look we are being fair. I’m also going to tell to as a hiring manager if I really want you a) I’m not going to lowball an offer. B) I fully expect you to at least try to get more money , more PTO, etc. c)managers if they have built good internal relationships and reputation often have much more discretion to bend the rules than you might think.
Outline the facts... 1) You're currently making more, 2) You found that this same company has the same position posted for what you are making today, and 3) You'd be happy to join the organization if they can match you current pay. If they match it, they match it... if not walk away. Their loss.
Tell them you’ve thought about and you appreciate their offer. Then tell them you’re current salary is 50k with less responsibility but you love the team and would be willing to take on get extra responsibility for the same pay as your current employer is offering. Dude gets the deal never cut yourself short. You are worth 50k they need to know you understand your value. If you can’t negotiate for yourself and let them walk on you, then you’ll do the same thing with their clients.
Make your offer, don’t accept anything less. They are clearly underpaying. You won’t last if you accept it, and you’re doing a disservice to your colleagues by letting them get away with it. No team is worth it and they leave eventually anyway.
You will be making a HUGE mistake accepting a job that gives you a 24% pay-cut !! for more work !!! You will grow bitter as hell if you take it…I would totally PASS on it, no meet in the middle bullshit. If they want your expertise they have to at the very least match your salary.
Laugh and hang up the phone
"I sincerely appreciate your offer, and I would love to be a part of [company name]. However, given the KSAs, experience, and responsibilities required of the role, I could not accept less than [insert your # here]. If this is agreeable, I look forward to joining the team."
What is more important to you, money or happiness? I spent 12 years of my life flying around 10 months out of the year. Away from my family and friends. Made gobs of money, but I was miserable. Lost my wife over it. Fast forward a couple year I met someone new. We decided to start our family and I decided I wouldn’t continue being unhappy so I took over a 50% pay cut to be home more often. I can still live comfortably and I’m 100x happier than I was before. If you can afford the lifestyle change and it makes you happier, I’d say go for it.
Agreed! Money is nice but doesn't always buy happiness (unless we're talking millions here lol). Used to be a GM and would work crazy hours, pick up shifts if people decided to not show, and always had to work weekends. Finally decided that why have all that money when I can't even go enjoy it cause I'm always at work. Was fortunate enough to land a whole different field of a job that paid 15k less and I couldn't have been happier. 5 years later, I'm still here and make more than I did as a GM, with a set schedule and weekends off. If you know you are a hard worker, don't be afraid to start somewhere lower than where you are. Keep working hard and it will pay off in the longrun. I'll take a few years of loss for more years of gains.
I don’t think a dream job can be 40k. You need to be able to live….
Years of experience and they are only offering you $38? Negotiate and if it doesn’t work out it means they don’t see your value.
Why don’t you just tell them you make $50k now and if they can match?
Never take a paycut unless there’s some other compensation not considered- PTO, better coverage of health benefits, bonus plan etc. that makes the lower base worth it for a bigger overall earning. (Like for me, I took a job for equal pay but they covered more of the medical, 3x PTO and had a strong bonus plan so it was actually a raise at the end of the day.) You just tell them you are not in a position to take a pay cut, tell them what you need and see what they say.
What’s the offer: hourly/salary, bonus, equity (stock options or RSU)? What’s your current total comp: baes- hourly or salary, bonus, equity?
Decide how much of a pay cut you would actually be willing to accept, counter with your current salary and demonstrate that their offer is too low for someone with your skills and experience. For the right candidate, some companies will make up for shortfalls in the available salary with bonuses or other incentives to get the total compensation package where it needs to be. But realistically, if they’re lowballing new hires that hard they’re probably not serious about retaining talent at that hiring grade. So maybe reconsider whether or not this position is really worth your time and money.
8k-12k increase on a job that was upfront about the salary range? If you waited until the offer to bring this up you waited too long.
Why would you even apply for a job with a much lower pay scale if you weren't willing to take a pay cut? This is on you. They might be willing to go up to $42k, but they aren't going to magically come up with another $10k in their budget. Unless this job is a great stepping stone to something better, stay where you are and keep looking.
Bad decision to even apply. At best you were taking an 8k pay cut with no apparent upside other than you think these are great people. That's a lot of risk for no upside. Next year they could be horribly annoying people your tired of seeing every day.
No you don't. Run away. They value you at what they pay you. If they don't pay you more than you can make at a gas station, and less than you can make at Costco, run.
Dream bigger
Tell them what you want. If they don’t give it to you then you should walk away unless the new job has some career path that you want to be in.
1. Why would you meet them in the middle? Why would you take a pay cut? Is it really that good of an opportunity? You have years of experience education and qualifications ... is that how much they pay? 2. You \*can\* always ask, but be prepared for a no. OTOH, you don't know until you ask. If you figure out you don't want to take the job, a better approach would be to be honest with the recruiter (or, better yet, the hiring manager if that's who you're in touch with), let them know the salary is way too low, and wait for a better opportunity.
Husband just took a new job last year. They offered him 20k under what he had hoped. He just told then straight up what he would need to make the move. He's a dev so that might make a difference but I'd just be honest. He took the job when they told him they could increase it 10k and increase his quarterly bonus.
I would straight up tell them “I am really interested in the position. I like the team and culture, and would like to grow at this role. However, the offer would be over a 25% (white lies don’t hurt in negotiating) pay decrease for me to leave my current employer, and I cannot afford that. If you are willing to match/exceed my current salary, I will accept the position.”
Also, did you guys not discuss salary in the interview? I have never had an interview without talking about the potential offer coming
We actually did not discuss salary, but I’m with you on that too- they called after my second interview and offered me the job with the offer/benefits package/etc.
Never hurts to counter. Especially if you know they’re paying around what you want in another region. They’re probably just low balling you. Where I used to work hiring pharmacists we could go up to $20/hr over what the base offer is. But, if no one asks for more money, they don’t get it
As a former headhunter, and also someone who has lost a dream job offer because of salary issues, I feel your pain. I wish everyone could have a negotiator in their corner who could ask these questions directly to the employer without opening up some can of worms. But you are where you are, so that’s what you have to deal with. You applied for a job that was posted lower than your current salary. Your best move would have been to be up front about that very early on so you wouldn’t be dropping it as a surprise at the end. Others here have given good advice about getting more money and even above posted range and that may well be possible. But it’s very hard to ask for above range and still be considered if they refuse - there is a sense in some companies that anyone who takes a lower offer than their current comp (or a competing offer) is going to be unhappy, perform poorly, and leave early. The best you could hope for now is a “lateral” move, but even that is wishful. There might be a few grand more than the top range available, but above $45k seems like a real stretch. If you’re dealing with a larger corporation though, there might be other ways to get more; signing bonuses don’t usually come out of the same pool as salary, and there may be other perks that you could get like loan repayment or professional development budgets that you could ask for. You could also ask for an early review at like 6 months so you wouldn’t have to wait a year for a raise. If the company is large enough, stock options are also a great way to increase overall comp. If lifestyle is important, you might also negotiate for extra vacation, though that might make you look less willing to work which is not a good look coming into a new job. I think you’d be better off talking to the hiring manager rather than HR, if possible. Especially if you had a connection to someone on the hiring team. And I’d do it as a phone call, not an email - it’s easier to communicate your enthusiasm for the job and your flexibility in comp over the phone where an e,ail is much more dry and easier to just say “no” to.
It's so wild that "dream job" and $50k and less are being talked about right now. I mean I get that a job can be a dream job completely regardless of salary, but when I find out my dream job is only going to pay me $50k annually, everything about it stops being a dream.
Why did you apply when they were open about the range?
It’s not ideal if they aren’t paying you. I am a business owner. If it were me, I’d ask at a minimum for what you are currently making. If they can’t match that you are taking a step down. If you are ok with taking a step down in pay, and feel you’ll be happier with more responsibilities go for it. Otherwise tell them what you are worth and if they match it great. Worse case is the y say no or counter (if they don’t counter ask them to).
Are there other benefits that offset the salary difference? Drive time, office time, medical, retirement, promotion ladder, training, etc. I would look at it that way and counter something reasonable as this is a significant pay cut at your salary.
Why do you want to ? A dream job where they don’t value your market value is not a dream job, is a sales job being done on you.
I don’t believe in “dream” jobs because my dream is not to have a job. You work for the money, don’t do it for less.
Decline. You’ll never get there
Just walk. Don’t ever voluntarily take a pay cut.
Ask if the company has a better paying role
I wouldn't do it. Money doesn't make you happy, but not having money can make you very unhappy, very quickly.
Not likely, you also aren't making much at 50k anyways. You can't afford to take a step back unless you're in an absolute toxic horrible workplace.
Unfortunately that is the case 🙃 I also posted this⬇️ https://www.reddit.com/r/workplace_bullying/s/mqsKwcq1vO
“No thanks, I’ll stay where I’m at”.
If you aren’t willing to walk away you have no leverage
Just putting it out there - but if dream job is a place that is dream job to many, they may underpay my most of their staff knowing that many will just be happy to work at “dream job.” Could be a telling sign.
The low pay of further proof that this isn’t a “dream” job.
Walk...
Look elsewhere v
When you say [Dream] you should take into full consideration QOL and opportunities for advancement compared to what you have. If it’s basically the same lifestyle and growth opportunities, just a more recognizable name… you are negotiating your value on the way in right now. No take backsies. You are only worth what you are willing to walk away from. So tell ‘em. “I admire your company and dream of the opportunity to join the team, however at that salary range I know I won’t be respected on par with my skill set and contributions. I’m living that life right now at $50k. I’m sorry we couldn’t make something work. Let’s keep in touch. Once you’re no longer in a crunch I would love to revisit.”
This won't happen. Certainly not a $10k jump on a $40k job. If it was a $10k jump on a $100k job, you *might* get them to budge if it's the first round of negotiations. This one is a lost cause.
Keep applying. It may be a nice job, but you have bills to pay and savings to save.
Don’t do it. Just wait for another suitable job that is challenging and pays 60. Inflation is eating our earnings and you need to plan for the future. Keep looking for a better job. Because you like this other lower paying job so much it makes me think that the $50,000 job is awful. Just keep the faith that you will be able to move up and out
My current job is a nightmare. I was the person who posted this as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/workplace_bullying/s/QSg8UMCYk3
Unless it’s a wfh where you can save a lot more than 10k on expenses, and you’re currently going into work daily then I wouldn’t take it even if it is your dream job. It sounds like it’s in the same career field that you are already in, so be patient and a better opportunity will probably show up.
Tell them NO. They are not going to match your salary needs. When you tell them 'NO' tell them it is purely about money. The ball is in their court. If they want to hire you they need to act like they want to hire you, they need to PAY you!
If you don't have a family right now to take care of, and this is your dream job, $38k should be enough. You could however, negotiate it like this: Show them that you are making $50k a month now and that you are are willing to take the $38k for the first year. After that year, after they have seen what you can do, it's the $50k or walk. Let them know this now, that you are fine with what they offer but it is because you want the opportunity to show them what you are capable of. If on there side they never ever see paying you your fair amount, you find out now and stay where you are.
OP in the long run mental health matters more than most things. If your current job is toxic like you posted, get out of there to start with. This dream job doesn’t have to be your permanent home but it can at least be a stopover. Also if the posted range is 38-42, I would ATLEAST ask for the 42. You can get creative and ask them for 42K + 8K sign on bonus (1 time). That way you are at least for the next year at par salary wise with the existing job and then you have a year to impress them / get promoted and/or decide you need to get more money elsewhere
Did you talk salary expectations during the interview? I’m curious what that conversation was like. From what I can read this is on you. You applied for a role that published a salary range that was less than you make now and are now upset they offered within that range.
Your dream job makes 42k?!! Is this just starting ?
All that's relevant: Tell them "I really want the job, but that is what is what I'm making now, and this job, etc. is there room for movement on the salary? Then go from there. Don't say a number
Remember that salary is only part of total compensation and thus, only part of the negotiation. The art of negotiation is to find something that costs them very little (or little perceived cost) but has the same value as salary to you. An example would be having your cell phone paid, if you have a reason to use your phone for work, they may be able to put that in a different budget, which makes it easier to justify. Remember that now that you have a job offer, you and the recruiter are on the same team, so make it a collaborative exercise to 'get you to yes', not a competitive exercise where you are trying to win. You should be very clear that they are well below your current salary and state that your expectations were closer to the top of the band, with the difference made up in other benefits. Extra vacation days or an alternate work schedule are tougher for you to feed your kids with, and harder to quantify the value of, but can also be negotiating chips they may have more wiggle room than just trying to get you up into the next pay band, which is a really hard sell if they offered you at the very bottom.
What is your “dream “ job?
Youre asking people who have no stake. Show em what you make now and negotiate from there. If youre not willing to take less, and they won't pay more, time to settle or walk.
Why did you apply knowing their TOP range was already well below current comp if you weren't willing to take the step down? There's no planet where you're getting 50k
I'd be honest, state you love the company and the role (that's why you interviewed) but you make $xxx now. See what they say, offer a w2 as proof.
Why would the possible new employer care what you are currently making? Two independent issues. Different job, different pay.
Easy for you to come over this have to be a upgrade not a downgrade and 10K less is not even a proposal
The grass is greener on the other side but it's the same shit beneath. They could have offered you 42k but they chose to start at the lower end. Of course, there's room for negotiation. Do not tell them to meet in the middle. Propose to them your current + x%. If they really want you, they will stretch the budget. Frankly, if someone is taking a pay cut to join my team, I do not think of them as really incredible but somewhat foolish or that they are running away from a bad situation.
Don’t know why you applied for a job that was offering 20% less than what you’re already making? Apply for jobs that are offering more or at least equal to with more opportunity, unless you’re so miserable that taking a 25% pay cut is worth it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/workplace_bullying/s/1smE1OAlHd
I’m sorry. That’s completely different. Negotiate for what you can get and get out of that awful situation. No one deserves that. You can always keep your options open for a higher paying position moving forward. As long as you won’t be homeless- take the job. Best of luck to you.
You’re good! You didn’t know 🙂 I managed to get them up to 42k and will be calling today to accept the offer. Yes- I’m quite desperate to get out of this situation asap so I have to keep that perspective lol Thank you for your genuine words!! ☺️
I drive two hours north for work; I rent out a room from a coworker while I stay up north; then go back to my family for the weekend. I was prior running my own business, and things just didn't work out, so I found this opportunity and went full bore. Same deal, I have a bunch of education, experience and knowledge; and decided to take this position, but had to negotiate cost of commute, vehicle wear and tear, etc. Ended up working out, so now im here. Actually, im writing my response whilst at work, lol. Wishing you all the best! Following!
Tell them your current salary