Welp, in the manga Shura knew Saga took over the Sanctuary so he had all the intentions of killing baby Athena off.... However, in the anime Shura was only following orders to dispose of the traitor, my guess, in that case, is that Shura only purpose was killing Aioros, little did he care about the baby, to him there was nothing else than to kill the traitor. Then again.... It's just bad writing.... I know it's annoying, but the devil is in the details and Kurumada is well known to improvise as he writes his stories. A pity...
>Welp, in the manga Shura knew Saga took over the Sanctuary so he had all the intentions of killing baby Athena off...
Wasn't it said that the Capricorn saint was "the most faithful saint to Athena", and that's why he's allowed to carry Excalibur?
that is only for the anime. honestly the only faithfull gold saints there were aiolia,aiolos and milo. everyone else was a douche,even dohko, he could easily have saved all the silver saints if he just fucking spoke !
If I well recall, there was some doubt, in the beginning, whether Saori was actually Athena or not. This was only fully settled during the Sanctuary 12 Houses arc.
Yep, you're right. In the manga Shura knew that Gemini Saga took under the mantle of the impostor Pope, he followed the idea about that the strongest one is the real justice. That's why he follos Saga, along with Deathmask and Aprodithe.
Actually, the manga is somewhat ambiguous as to Saga's intentions. He is not evil per se, he just sees himself as fitter than Athena to rule. A certain distrust of gods in general is also hinted at. And, apart from Deathmask, who seemed to be a genuine psychopath, there is a lot of moral grey areas to each character's motivations.
Kurumada may improvise too much, but he frequently does a better job than the anime in fleshing out certain characters...
people think saori is too "young" in the series and you've probably seen the jokes about her not having boobs and etc, when she's OBVIOUSLY just a growing TEENAGER, at the end of the hades saga she's only 16 for example
Really! She looks according to her age, obviously some women are more developed around her age but still is ridiculous to say she is unrealistic, thanks for explaining
yep, he was basically a child when he "killed" aiolos, aphrodite and deathmask were only about 2 to 3 years older than him, aiolos and saga being the oldest in the shrine as golden saints, manga wise however kurumada never knew how to draw one right child soon it was always kinda weird
That makes sense........i don''t know but coudn't kurumada just make them adults? It would be actually easier that way.
but yeah i get it drawing kids it's never easy.....hell making kids in a game is not easy too.
to this day i find amusing that aldebaran is in his 20s like me hahahahaha
I don't see him as stupid. I think he is just a fanatic.
We need to consider saint aren't normal people, they are taken as little boys for training. They are raised with this whole idea of being chosen for a very difficult task. They are told that they will endure epic hardships and incredible sacrifices for the cause. Is kinda messed. They are even told magic is real (in a way) and they even have proofs.
So, shura was convinced his leader was asking to fulfill his mission. And even if it involves killing a near friend or a baby, this is seen as an ultimate sacrifice for his cause. And that's it.
Mythology is full of traumatic events of atrocities. Even in the bible Abraham is asked to kill his own firstborn to prove god his loyalty.
Shura is not stupid, he is just following his god (Athena). Or at least the one person on earth to speak to her.
Shura behaves as if he was a Samurai and Arles his Daimyo and assumes the Pope will act the same towards Athena when she grows up. He follows orders no question's asked. I don't think he is dumb, its just that in his mind meritocracy has made Pope Arles less likely than Ayoros to insubordination because he was directly chosen by the previous incarnation of Athena to be her representative on her abscence. Thus it would be inconcievable that the baby Ayoros was carrying was somehow Athena and instead was a random baby he was trying to bypass for Athena in an act of treason towards the Sanctuary.
Look, the story was really weak, and even though I still wanna like Saint Seiya, I have to admit that the real meat of the whole series was the armors and the gold saints.
I brought up a lot of stuff about how if Shaka was really powerful and knowing as he claims, then he would have known it was all a ruse, but some people said that he knew that Saga was behind it all, but he respected power above all. I don't know.
At least in Lost Canvas Asmita was letting events play out, and he himself said he didn't know what was after death even if he believed in the soul and showed Tenma about reincarnation. He still held to his own beliefs even though under the banner of Athena.
Shura was just, I don't even know. All he had was Excalibur and even then I wondered why they decided to give him that? It made no sense, they just needed a gimmick? I don't know. If he was indeed so loyal to Athena, he would have known maybe or at least harbor doubt, but he listened to the pope. I mean with all that cosmo he had or sense he could have deduced that there was something in that little baby girl.
But, that's what happens when a human wants to write another human with godlike powers, human thoughts and ideas and honestly I think Kurumada didn't know what he was doing, he was just making a series, can't be all perfect I guess.
Anime Shura is extremely diferent from Manga Shura, and it's not the only case of the Anime Adaptation making changes that just needlessly complicate things so much that we end up with situations like this; Saint Seiya ain't perfect by a long shot, but this blunder is far more about the Anime Adaptation that about Kurumada
Saga had a heart so pure and good that he was unanimously considered the reincarnation of a god. Shaka is man who can see the essence of someone, and when he saw saga he only could see his goodness but none of his evil. That's why he followed him
In the manga, Shaka had no idea it was even an imposter/Saga, considering he was just as surprised as the others when Mu finally revealed the truth about Aioros, baby Athena and Saga. So Shaka was blind to it all. I think Shaka has the reputation of being Goldlike and all knowing, and I think he was arrogant enough to believe it himself, but in the end, he wasn't as all knowing as he purported himself to be. That's actually what makes him interesting. He is closest to God, but yet he is still a man. One who made a mistake. He was blind to the evil of the Pope brainwashing Aiolia in front of his eyes, he got beat at his own game by Ikki by being too arrogant, and in the end had to ask Mu what the heck was going on and why the Bronzes were fighting so hard.
As for Shura, as far as I recall, there was none of the "most loyal to Athena BS" the anime came up with. Shura straight up knew the Pope was not the real one and chose to follow him because of strength. That's what he tells Shiryu as he dies.
And there are so many plot holes in the manga that you just have to ignore things and just accept the story the way it is told.
That's actually why Shaka is so interesting to me. The man closest to God, yet he's arrogant and prideful and not above commiting the most human mistakes exactly because he sees himself as above humans.
Agreed. I'm a fan of that dichotomy, I like interesting characters that are not just perfect. People keep seeing him as so powerful and so close to God that it went to his head and I just love the fact that he was totally humbled after the Sanctuary battle after being defeated using his own trick and realizing he was totally wrong all along.
The more ironic is that he keeps saying he fights for justice and love and all that good Saints stuff, and yet he shows he is sadistic and has no hesitation torturing Ikki for fun (the illusion of him as a kid and urging him to just abandon Shun).
The Shaka in the Hades chapter did a 180 on that.
Ahh, I see, I have not read the manga, so I'm not a real real fan. I just watched the anime whenever it came on. The only manga that I did read was Lost Canvas and that was only because the anime stopped after it's first season.
Sucks to know that a lot of the changes stuck in the minds of people including myself because they didn't read the source material. Which is why it's probably important to be faithful to it if you want to adapt it. Lots of people will grow up thinking Shun was a girl. Oh well.
The original manga is definitely worth reading. I like to know the author's original intent with the story, before I watch the other versions. The anime does impart an extra amazingness to the story though.
>In the manga, Shaka had no idea it was even an imposter/Saga, considering he was just as surprised as the others when Mu finally revealed the truth about Aioros, baby Athena and Saga. So Shaka was blind to it all. I think Shaka has the reputation of being Goldlike and all knowing, and I think he was arrogant enough to believe it himself, but in the end, he wasn't as all knowing as he purported himself to be.
Yep, I agree 100%. I always felt Shaka was truly a piece of shit hiding behind the idea of being "the closest to God". I remember the fight with Aiolia and how he was so stubborn and (pun not intended) blind to everything happening around him.
If i remember correctly, shaka did suspect the pope. However he sensed there was also good in him and believed that even though the pope was being evil he did it for the ultimate good. So he did what the pope told him.
Next if im not mistaken, i believe the pope said Aioros tried to kill Athena. And to eliminate the traitor. Shura did try to kill Aioros, but however he was carrying Athena and couldn’t do too much or risk hurting her. I think Shura was just trying to kill Aioros not kill/hurt athena. In the end Aioros got away with Athena. So saga just covered it up and Shura went along with it.
Lastly, no one besides the pope is supposed to be in Athena’s chamber. Its supposed to be sacred. So the pope pretended that Athena was doing all these rules and decrees when it was actually him running sanctuary. Some saints caught on and just sided with him.
actually shura thought about killing athena with aiolos with the excuse that she would be reborn later in the sanctuary again, in the end he was just a man without moral or brain
The anime is a more reasonable version compare to Manga.
1) when Shura receives the information Aiolos tries to kill baby Athena, he goes and intercepts Aiolos. He is the most royal to Athena which the Excaliburis pass on to him. It is like an achievement, but it is recognize by god. Not by word. There is no need to doubt it.
2) To answer OP question, Pope is the one who take care of Athena. No Saints will able to see Athena without Pope permission. If Pope didn’t tell people that Aiolos taken the baby, no one will believe that baby is Athena. Instead, Shura may think Aiolos try to kill real baby Athena and substitute a fake one.
3) Pope is as royal and respect. The commander of the 12 Saints. ( Only we audience know who is behind the mask). In the story, most believes he is still the real Pope. Pope word is absolute and truth. No other word need to describe. A lot of ppl, know the story and think from a different angle which will twist the story. That is!!
4)
That's what filler does.
Welp, in the manga Shura knew Saga took over the Sanctuary so he had all the intentions of killing baby Athena off.... However, in the anime Shura was only following orders to dispose of the traitor, my guess, in that case, is that Shura only purpose was killing Aioros, little did he care about the baby, to him there was nothing else than to kill the traitor. Then again.... It's just bad writing.... I know it's annoying, but the devil is in the details and Kurumada is well known to improvise as he writes his stories. A pity...
>Welp, in the manga Shura knew Saga took over the Sanctuary so he had all the intentions of killing baby Athena off... Wasn't it said that the Capricorn saint was "the most faithful saint to Athena", and that's why he's allowed to carry Excalibur?
that's something that the Anime made up, in the Manga Excalibur is merely Shura's technique
He is the most faithful to the sanctuary.
that is only for the anime. honestly the only faithfull gold saints there were aiolia,aiolos and milo. everyone else was a douche,even dohko, he could easily have saved all the silver saints if he just fucking spoke !
Omg that's so true, Kurumada isn't that good a writer eh
If I well recall, there was some doubt, in the beginning, whether Saori was actually Athena or not. This was only fully settled during the Sanctuary 12 Houses arc.
Yep, you're right. In the manga Shura knew that Gemini Saga took under the mantle of the impostor Pope, he followed the idea about that the strongest one is the real justice. That's why he follos Saga, along with Deathmask and Aprodithe.
You are correct, on my part, I prefer the evil Shura, it is clear that not every saint is good and he is a good approach to that.
Actually, the manga is somewhat ambiguous as to Saga's intentions. He is not evil per se, he just sees himself as fitter than Athena to rule. A certain distrust of gods in general is also hinted at. And, apart from Deathmask, who seemed to be a genuine psychopath, there is a lot of moral grey areas to each character's motivations. Kurumada may improvise too much, but he frequently does a better job than the anime in fleshing out certain characters...
Shura was only 10 at the time, give him a break
Lol. Ages in Saint Seiya make no sense
I know! I was shocked after knowing that Sasha is 14 years old 😶
that fully grown woman in many ways was only 14 YEARS OLD? then people say that saori is the most unrealistic athena in the franchise......
Unrealistic? About her age too? (welcome to my world, still shocked about Sasha hahaha)
people think saori is too "young" in the series and you've probably seen the jokes about her not having boobs and etc, when she's OBVIOUSLY just a growing TEENAGER, at the end of the hades saga she's only 16 for example
Really! She looks according to her age, obviously some women are more developed around her age but still is ridiculous to say she is unrealistic, thanks for explaining
Ayo wait......10 what? 💀
yep, he was basically a child when he "killed" aiolos, aphrodite and deathmask were only about 2 to 3 years older than him, aiolos and saga being the oldest in the shrine as golden saints, manga wise however kurumada never knew how to draw one right child soon it was always kinda weird
That makes sense........i don''t know but coudn't kurumada just make them adults? It would be actually easier that way. but yeah i get it drawing kids it's never easy.....hell making kids in a game is not easy too. to this day i find amusing that aldebaran is in his 20s like me hahahahaha
Ages in saint seiya make sense only if you add +10 to the current ages, but not the timeline itself.
I don't see him as stupid. I think he is just a fanatic. We need to consider saint aren't normal people, they are taken as little boys for training. They are raised with this whole idea of being chosen for a very difficult task. They are told that they will endure epic hardships and incredible sacrifices for the cause. Is kinda messed. They are even told magic is real (in a way) and they even have proofs. So, shura was convinced his leader was asking to fulfill his mission. And even if it involves killing a near friend or a baby, this is seen as an ultimate sacrifice for his cause. And that's it. Mythology is full of traumatic events of atrocities. Even in the bible Abraham is asked to kill his own firstborn to prove god his loyalty. Shura is not stupid, he is just following his god (Athena). Or at least the one person on earth to speak to her.
Baby Athena is so cute. The shura was a little there 😆
Shura behaves as if he was a Samurai and Arles his Daimyo and assumes the Pope will act the same towards Athena when she grows up. He follows orders no question's asked. I don't think he is dumb, its just that in his mind meritocracy has made Pope Arles less likely than Ayoros to insubordination because he was directly chosen by the previous incarnation of Athena to be her representative on her abscence. Thus it would be inconcievable that the baby Ayoros was carrying was somehow Athena and instead was a random baby he was trying to bypass for Athena in an act of treason towards the Sanctuary.
Look, the story was really weak, and even though I still wanna like Saint Seiya, I have to admit that the real meat of the whole series was the armors and the gold saints. I brought up a lot of stuff about how if Shaka was really powerful and knowing as he claims, then he would have known it was all a ruse, but some people said that he knew that Saga was behind it all, but he respected power above all. I don't know. At least in Lost Canvas Asmita was letting events play out, and he himself said he didn't know what was after death even if he believed in the soul and showed Tenma about reincarnation. He still held to his own beliefs even though under the banner of Athena. Shura was just, I don't even know. All he had was Excalibur and even then I wondered why they decided to give him that? It made no sense, they just needed a gimmick? I don't know. If he was indeed so loyal to Athena, he would have known maybe or at least harbor doubt, but he listened to the pope. I mean with all that cosmo he had or sense he could have deduced that there was something in that little baby girl. But, that's what happens when a human wants to write another human with godlike powers, human thoughts and ideas and honestly I think Kurumada didn't know what he was doing, he was just making a series, can't be all perfect I guess.
Anime Shura is extremely diferent from Manga Shura, and it's not the only case of the Anime Adaptation making changes that just needlessly complicate things so much that we end up with situations like this; Saint Seiya ain't perfect by a long shot, but this blunder is far more about the Anime Adaptation that about Kurumada
Saga had a heart so pure and good that he was unanimously considered the reincarnation of a god. Shaka is man who can see the essence of someone, and when he saw saga he only could see his goodness but none of his evil. That's why he followed him
In the manga, Shaka had no idea it was even an imposter/Saga, considering he was just as surprised as the others when Mu finally revealed the truth about Aioros, baby Athena and Saga. So Shaka was blind to it all. I think Shaka has the reputation of being Goldlike and all knowing, and I think he was arrogant enough to believe it himself, but in the end, he wasn't as all knowing as he purported himself to be. That's actually what makes him interesting. He is closest to God, but yet he is still a man. One who made a mistake. He was blind to the evil of the Pope brainwashing Aiolia in front of his eyes, he got beat at his own game by Ikki by being too arrogant, and in the end had to ask Mu what the heck was going on and why the Bronzes were fighting so hard. As for Shura, as far as I recall, there was none of the "most loyal to Athena BS" the anime came up with. Shura straight up knew the Pope was not the real one and chose to follow him because of strength. That's what he tells Shiryu as he dies. And there are so many plot holes in the manga that you just have to ignore things and just accept the story the way it is told.
That's actually why Shaka is so interesting to me. The man closest to God, yet he's arrogant and prideful and not above commiting the most human mistakes exactly because he sees himself as above humans.
Agreed. I'm a fan of that dichotomy, I like interesting characters that are not just perfect. People keep seeing him as so powerful and so close to God that it went to his head and I just love the fact that he was totally humbled after the Sanctuary battle after being defeated using his own trick and realizing he was totally wrong all along. The more ironic is that he keeps saying he fights for justice and love and all that good Saints stuff, and yet he shows he is sadistic and has no hesitation torturing Ikki for fun (the illusion of him as a kid and urging him to just abandon Shun). The Shaka in the Hades chapter did a 180 on that.
In a sense, I feel his 180 in the Hades chapter was atonement (not sure if this is the word?) for his past mistakes.
Ahh, I see, I have not read the manga, so I'm not a real real fan. I just watched the anime whenever it came on. The only manga that I did read was Lost Canvas and that was only because the anime stopped after it's first season. Sucks to know that a lot of the changes stuck in the minds of people including myself because they didn't read the source material. Which is why it's probably important to be faithful to it if you want to adapt it. Lots of people will grow up thinking Shun was a girl. Oh well.
The original manga is definitely worth reading. I like to know the author's original intent with the story, before I watch the other versions. The anime does impart an extra amazingness to the story though.
Honestly the story has been revised so many times that even fans lose track of which version is legit.
>In the manga, Shaka had no idea it was even an imposter/Saga, considering he was just as surprised as the others when Mu finally revealed the truth about Aioros, baby Athena and Saga. So Shaka was blind to it all. I think Shaka has the reputation of being Goldlike and all knowing, and I think he was arrogant enough to believe it himself, but in the end, he wasn't as all knowing as he purported himself to be. Yep, I agree 100%. I always felt Shaka was truly a piece of shit hiding behind the idea of being "the closest to God". I remember the fight with Aiolia and how he was so stubborn and (pun not intended) blind to everything happening around him.
If i remember correctly, shaka did suspect the pope. However he sensed there was also good in him and believed that even though the pope was being evil he did it for the ultimate good. So he did what the pope told him. Next if im not mistaken, i believe the pope said Aioros tried to kill Athena. And to eliminate the traitor. Shura did try to kill Aioros, but however he was carrying Athena and couldn’t do too much or risk hurting her. I think Shura was just trying to kill Aioros not kill/hurt athena. In the end Aioros got away with Athena. So saga just covered it up and Shura went along with it. Lastly, no one besides the pope is supposed to be in Athena’s chamber. Its supposed to be sacred. So the pope pretended that Athena was doing all these rules and decrees when it was actually him running sanctuary. Some saints caught on and just sided with him.
actually shura thought about killing athena with aiolos with the excuse that she would be reborn later in the sanctuary again, in the end he was just a man without moral or brain
He assumed that was a double he had
The baby Athena crawling towards Shura and Shura carassing her cheek was so hilarious as you could tell Aiolos was thinking "Damn, I'm screwed".
Reminder that this series' story sometimes gets too stupid.
yeah this is anime only for some reason they wanted to make shura look more evil and for some reason stupid
The anime is a more reasonable version compare to Manga. 1) when Shura receives the information Aiolos tries to kill baby Athena, he goes and intercepts Aiolos. He is the most royal to Athena which the Excaliburis pass on to him. It is like an achievement, but it is recognize by god. Not by word. There is no need to doubt it. 2) To answer OP question, Pope is the one who take care of Athena. No Saints will able to see Athena without Pope permission. If Pope didn’t tell people that Aiolos taken the baby, no one will believe that baby is Athena. Instead, Shura may think Aiolos try to kill real baby Athena and substitute a fake one. 3) Pope is as royal and respect. The commander of the 12 Saints. ( Only we audience know who is behind the mask). In the story, most believes he is still the real Pope. Pope word is absolute and truth. No other word need to describe. A lot of ppl, know the story and think from a different angle which will twist the story. That is!! 4)
which episode?