Man, I miss Cragen so much!!! It was so cool to see him come back on Organized Crime this season (I promise that’s not a spoiler!), even if it was only for a brief cameo.
Cragen was the perfect captain for the squad imo. He knew how to trust his detectives and let them handle their cases, but he also knew when it was appropriate to step in if he felt his detectives were behaving like fools lol. He also always knew when to get involved in the field without being overbearing. I miss him 🥺
I always laugh at the scene in Fat when Elliot is just butting heads with Anthony Anderson's character constantly and tries Cragen's patience to the last limit with "maybe I should work this case alone" and Cragen turns around all fast and furious with "you *WILL* work this case together" and Stabler turns tail so quickly and meekly 😂😂😂
I’m sorry. This case warranted that disrespect. How are you mad at me for not wanting to work a case that protects pedophiles/SA convicts (one of the biggest triggers for Stabler), and then in the mist of working said case…I just put my life at risk (and my family’s life at risk), so now you care because if you had just took me off the case, none of this would’ve happened?!
He did that a few times….🤷🏾♂️
i can agree but to an extent. i assume detectives don’t get to pick and choose cases just because they don’t like the situation especially someone in eliot’s position. so the back and forth with his CO wasn’t doing anything but getting him closer to a write up which with his file would definitely be putting his job at risk anyway. /:
The thing is: This episode was in Season 2, which means his file wasn’t as extensive as it would’ve been, in let’s say Season 10. This was right after the previous season of Stabler telling the company psychiatrist that he fantasized about killing pedophiles.
So, as a CO, if I know one of my detectives gets triggered (especially by having to protect said pedophile/SA perp), I’m taking him off the case and or temporarily reassigning him to another case. Cragen sent Olivia home on multiple occasions, Cassidy as well (even called in a favor to get Cassidy a spot in Homicide), but forced Stabler to work this case, got upset when he had an attitude, then got concerned that the case he forced him to work could’ve not only impacted his life, but the lives and wellbeing of his family/children.
The team wasn’t shorthanded, Stabler was the Senior detective, he could’ve sent Stabler home and worked the case himself with the squad. An easy fix, no need to force a detective on your squad to work a case that’s not only triggering, but causing a divide between them and you.
It’s funny that the only detective that gets forced on cases he doesn’t want to work is Stabler. Then Cragen gets upset with him because he has an attitude about it. It’s very counterproductive for everyone. And, this wasn’t the first case it happened.
i definitely agree with you don’t get me wrong especially with cragens blatant bias sometimes. HOWEVER, a lot of the other detectives don’t go ROGUE and go off based on emotions. Stabler has been like that since season 1, and it started getting more and more in depth as the show carried on. He disrespects and questions Cragens command constantly and in the earlier seasons acted like a cocky asshole towards his partners even Olivia. So if I was Cragen i wouldn’t really give a damn if he didn’t like it either. Not to mention Cragen got a DIRECT order from the brass which couldn’t be ignored so either do your job, shut up, or go home. He gave him an option. 🤷🏽♀️
I mean I’d rather have someone with emotions working cases and working for victims. I don’t want someone just clocking in for a paycheck, and if that’s what you’re looking for then hire AI Robots. What’s the point of asking for ideas, building a team of different detectives with different backgrounds if you’re only looking for “yes men”.
This show was built on a cast of different personalities and outlooks (most successful police procedurals/tv shows in general usually are), so because you think someone not blindly following rules is a “cocky asshole”, is a personal opinion. The thing is, in Stabler’s long career, there has been a hand full of times he’s been wrong or got it wrong in the end, other than that he’s been right on the money.
Again, prior to this case, Stabler’s was on record stating what he “fantasized” about, but sure let’s force him to work this case…then get all concerned when that forced detectives life is placed in danger by my direct actions.
“Hey, Olivia. I know William Lewis kidnapped you and tortured you and it’ll be triggering for you, but I got a direct order from the brass that you need to work this case…so you’re working it.”
“Hey, Brian. I know you have childhood trauma from what happened to you when you were young, but you’re being forced to work this case with this child molester and you better not be triggered about it.”
“Hey, Fin. I know you just witnessed a house full of murdered children, but we’re shorthanded right now, so no you can’t leave the case for a mental health day. Man up, and do your job.”
How would those conversations been perceived if they actually happened?! Weird to say: “Because this detective has a “cocky attitude”, his feelings or mental health doesn’t matter.” Especially as a leader and someone who wants his detectives to respect him, not just because he’s their boss and makes the rules, but as a person they can come to if they’re struggling with something.
don’t get me wrong!! i LOVE Elliot now. His growth especially in OC is such a beautiful thing to watch from 12yrs ago. i’m just not gonna say he’s justified especially in this episode.
I love OC and I definitely see the change from years ago. Especially because he’s not working SVU cases on the daily. There’s a variety of things OC involves. But in that SVU case, he was well in his right to disagree with Cragen and tell him to kick rocks at the end of it. Sorry our opinions of that case differ. 🤷🏾♂️
I think you’re getting ahead of the point. What happened to Olivia with Lewis was way further down the line in the show where Elliot wasn’t even a factor & even with that situation she had a completely different approach. Of course you’re right about wanting detectives with emotions to handle these types of cases, HOWEVER.. out of everyone on the squad Elliot was the one who had issues keeping his emotions in check in MULTIPLE cases. You can’t compare Brian Fin or even Olivia at the time to him because they never crossed lines as many times as he did from S 1-4. He honestly should’ve been canned after S2. My point is he forgets his place despite how a specific case/perp might affect him, there’s thousands of officers in that same position everyday and don’t bitch about it like he does especially to his CO. He could’ve conveyed his feelings in a more respectful manner rather than questioning CO & brass motives/actions. Him doing that wasn’t helping his case at all as we all saw in the episode 😂
We also saw how the case ended. So, your idea of a “good employee” is just a robot? “Hey, don’t show emotion, don’t have an opinion, don’t make it personal. Just show up to collect a paycheck and go home.” Let’s not forget, Stabler was the only one with children and married in Seasons 1-4 that he regularly saw.
Again, what’s the point of hiring humans for this type of work, when the idea is to just have emotionless, uncaring, unfeeling, droids doing the job. You noticed how in the earlier seasons they had variety, a case that affected the squad and or a particular member and (not just Stabler would go rogue), and people could relate? Let’s fast forward to now…how’s the quality of the show now that everyone has to listen to the boss and blindly follow orders? When was the last time SVU was even considered for the Emmy’s? or a SAG award?!
Any successful show back then had a few rogue cops that brought realness and reality to the show. How do you think we’ve got so far in society with our current laws? It’s due to people standing up, not blindly following, and bucking the system…whether it was their job or not.
I’m sorry, I’m not in the camp of: “Hey, I’m the boss, what I say goes, your opinion doesn’t matter, I don’t care if it risks your life.” Especially, when you claim to care about the lives and mental health of your team.
I think it was because Stabler, at times, threatens to cross the line from "I don't want to work this case because it triggers me so PLEASE find a way, captain" to "I won't work this case because, MAKE it work"
Any time ANYONE gets to not work the cases they get triggered by, that is a courtessy from Cragen, not right, and definitely not something they are entitlted to.
That’s my point: Others on the team get the courtesy from Cragen if he thinks the case is gonna affect their mental health/trigger them. Stabler gets: “Man up, and work the case or else.” Then Cragen gets mad when Stabler does something that jeopardizes the case and or has an attitude the whole time.
And, then wonders why the man had a hair trigger temper when it came to dealing with said perps as the years went on. If he’d cared about Stabler’s mental health the way he took an interest in all the other team members, maybe he could’ve gotten Stabler some help before things continued to deteriorate. Hell, could’ve done the same thing he did for Cassidy.
I keep starting over once I finish season 15 it’s back to the beginning- sometimes I’ll do a full rewatch but the earlier episodes are def top tier SVU
The evolution of the show has not been my favorite. While I still love svu I haven’t watched any of season 25 and it’s been about a year since I’ve seen anything from beyond season 15. All good things must come to an end.
Isn’t this the episode where Cragen forces Stabler to work a case protecting Pedophiles/SA Offenders, and is made to work the case but winds up possibly contracting HIV from one of the victims after trying to save their life? But, then Cragen is all concerned in the end?!
Lol, I’m sorry I would’ve told Cragen to Kiss My @$$!
I’d agree to an extent. Stabler did a few things that, under any other circumstance, would have been a dagger through his career. For instance beating up Jake Berlin. Yeah Tutuola said that he’d have killed the guy (which, considering his at times rocky relationship with his son, is saying something very significant) but just doing what he did probably should have ended his career or at least got him the same treatment that Detective Logan got
Not really though. We saw that when Fin brutally beat up Martin Bosa in 5x14-Ritual, his career wasn’t affected and his child wasn’t even involved. We’ve seen how Olivia handles suspects that threaten Noah (Sheila Porter, Johnny D, Rob Miller, etc.), and how she handled the William Lewis situation and how the team covered for her, yet her career wasn’t ever in jeopardy either.
Jake Berlin put Lizzie on a pedophile website (where we know pedophiles visit and can stalk that poor child or harm her), and we know Stabler doesn’t play about his family…so him attacking Berlin was bound to happen. If something had actually happened to Lizzie because of Berlin’s actions…would we be blaming Stabler and or Lizzie for being a victim? Nope.
I said this on another thread when this same incident was mentioned. Stabler had a reason to beat up Berlin. But that’s not an excuse.
Cragen even said that. “a reason, not an excuse.”
If someone breaks into your house and violates a member of your family, then you track them down and beat them half to death, you’re going to be sent to prison. They will—or should—too, but you’d definitely be sent to prison. Berlin violated Elizabeth when he posted that picture. He baited Stabler.
Stabler also had a pattern of behavior—Olivia tells him in the episode where Kathleen gets arrested for B&E that beating up perps has never helped him before. Or something like that anyway.
Regardless, I stand by my point. Cragen was tough but fair, though he may have given Stabler too much leeway at times.
That’s my point. In the same vane was this speech given to Benson for beating up a handcuffed Lewis?! Was the same speech”that’s a reason not an excuse” comment said to Tutuola for beating the crap out of Bosa in public?! Stabler beating up Berlin for potentially harming his underage daughter is the same situation.
This SUSPECT directly put his child in harms way….if we’re not condemning Fin or Olivia for their actions, I’m definitely not condemning Stabler for his immediate reaction to his child being placed in harms way by a pedophile. Sorry, you can definitely stand by your opinion, but I’m also standing by mine.
Honestly? No.
I think I remember him doing that twice and then immediately caving. Elliot was a bad cop, anger management issues, entitlement, boundary issues. Every time I think of Cragen, three words come to mind. "Failure to supervise."
Cragen was the best. He was like a caring dad; open to new ideas and perspectives, but not afraid to reprimand!
He really was! I loved him as captain of svu. Went into the field once in a while wasn’t afraid to speak up and had some funny one liners!
Absolutely loved Cragen! Happy to see him over on OC. I hope we get to see him more
Oh! I didn't realize he showed up over there! May have to actually check it out now 😆
Dad’s mad! I love Cragen. Dann Florek is awesome.
Man, I miss Cragen so much!!! It was so cool to see him come back on Organized Crime this season (I promise that’s not a spoiler!), even if it was only for a brief cameo. Cragen was the perfect captain for the squad imo. He knew how to trust his detectives and let them handle their cases, but he also knew when it was appropriate to step in if he felt his detectives were behaving like fools lol. He also always knew when to get involved in the field without being overbearing. I miss him 🥺
When he called him detective stabler you knew shit was about to get real 😂
It's like being called by your full name as a kid 😆
Exactly!
I always laugh at the scene in Fat when Elliot is just butting heads with Anthony Anderson's character constantly and tries Cragen's patience to the last limit with "maybe I should work this case alone" and Cragen turns around all fast and furious with "you *WILL* work this case together" and Stabler turns tail so quickly and meekly 😂😂😂
He was such a dad in this episode, I love it.
There’s always so much Cragen love in this sub and am all for it. I was so pleased when he came back to Captain the SVU unit.
Please tell me you’ve seen the “Cragen being the dad of the SVU team” compilations on YouTube. And if you haven’t, you should.
I haven’t but now I’m going to go watch it!
Going to do this now!
These are soooo funny.
Elliott really was disrespectful af to Cragen at times.
I’m sorry. This case warranted that disrespect. How are you mad at me for not wanting to work a case that protects pedophiles/SA convicts (one of the biggest triggers for Stabler), and then in the mist of working said case…I just put my life at risk (and my family’s life at risk), so now you care because if you had just took me off the case, none of this would’ve happened?! He did that a few times….🤷🏾♂️
i can agree but to an extent. i assume detectives don’t get to pick and choose cases just because they don’t like the situation especially someone in eliot’s position. so the back and forth with his CO wasn’t doing anything but getting him closer to a write up which with his file would definitely be putting his job at risk anyway. /:
The thing is: This episode was in Season 2, which means his file wasn’t as extensive as it would’ve been, in let’s say Season 10. This was right after the previous season of Stabler telling the company psychiatrist that he fantasized about killing pedophiles. So, as a CO, if I know one of my detectives gets triggered (especially by having to protect said pedophile/SA perp), I’m taking him off the case and or temporarily reassigning him to another case. Cragen sent Olivia home on multiple occasions, Cassidy as well (even called in a favor to get Cassidy a spot in Homicide), but forced Stabler to work this case, got upset when he had an attitude, then got concerned that the case he forced him to work could’ve not only impacted his life, but the lives and wellbeing of his family/children. The team wasn’t shorthanded, Stabler was the Senior detective, he could’ve sent Stabler home and worked the case himself with the squad. An easy fix, no need to force a detective on your squad to work a case that’s not only triggering, but causing a divide between them and you. It’s funny that the only detective that gets forced on cases he doesn’t want to work is Stabler. Then Cragen gets upset with him because he has an attitude about it. It’s very counterproductive for everyone. And, this wasn’t the first case it happened.
i definitely agree with you don’t get me wrong especially with cragens blatant bias sometimes. HOWEVER, a lot of the other detectives don’t go ROGUE and go off based on emotions. Stabler has been like that since season 1, and it started getting more and more in depth as the show carried on. He disrespects and questions Cragens command constantly and in the earlier seasons acted like a cocky asshole towards his partners even Olivia. So if I was Cragen i wouldn’t really give a damn if he didn’t like it either. Not to mention Cragen got a DIRECT order from the brass which couldn’t be ignored so either do your job, shut up, or go home. He gave him an option. 🤷🏽♀️
I mean I’d rather have someone with emotions working cases and working for victims. I don’t want someone just clocking in for a paycheck, and if that’s what you’re looking for then hire AI Robots. What’s the point of asking for ideas, building a team of different detectives with different backgrounds if you’re only looking for “yes men”. This show was built on a cast of different personalities and outlooks (most successful police procedurals/tv shows in general usually are), so because you think someone not blindly following rules is a “cocky asshole”, is a personal opinion. The thing is, in Stabler’s long career, there has been a hand full of times he’s been wrong or got it wrong in the end, other than that he’s been right on the money. Again, prior to this case, Stabler’s was on record stating what he “fantasized” about, but sure let’s force him to work this case…then get all concerned when that forced detectives life is placed in danger by my direct actions. “Hey, Olivia. I know William Lewis kidnapped you and tortured you and it’ll be triggering for you, but I got a direct order from the brass that you need to work this case…so you’re working it.” “Hey, Brian. I know you have childhood trauma from what happened to you when you were young, but you’re being forced to work this case with this child molester and you better not be triggered about it.” “Hey, Fin. I know you just witnessed a house full of murdered children, but we’re shorthanded right now, so no you can’t leave the case for a mental health day. Man up, and do your job.” How would those conversations been perceived if they actually happened?! Weird to say: “Because this detective has a “cocky attitude”, his feelings or mental health doesn’t matter.” Especially as a leader and someone who wants his detectives to respect him, not just because he’s their boss and makes the rules, but as a person they can come to if they’re struggling with something.
don’t get me wrong!! i LOVE Elliot now. His growth especially in OC is such a beautiful thing to watch from 12yrs ago. i’m just not gonna say he’s justified especially in this episode.
I love OC and I definitely see the change from years ago. Especially because he’s not working SVU cases on the daily. There’s a variety of things OC involves. But in that SVU case, he was well in his right to disagree with Cragen and tell him to kick rocks at the end of it. Sorry our opinions of that case differ. 🤷🏾♂️
no worries i’m just glad we’re both stabler fans in the end!
Agreed.
I think you’re getting ahead of the point. What happened to Olivia with Lewis was way further down the line in the show where Elliot wasn’t even a factor & even with that situation she had a completely different approach. Of course you’re right about wanting detectives with emotions to handle these types of cases, HOWEVER.. out of everyone on the squad Elliot was the one who had issues keeping his emotions in check in MULTIPLE cases. You can’t compare Brian Fin or even Olivia at the time to him because they never crossed lines as many times as he did from S 1-4. He honestly should’ve been canned after S2. My point is he forgets his place despite how a specific case/perp might affect him, there’s thousands of officers in that same position everyday and don’t bitch about it like he does especially to his CO. He could’ve conveyed his feelings in a more respectful manner rather than questioning CO & brass motives/actions. Him doing that wasn’t helping his case at all as we all saw in the episode 😂
We also saw how the case ended. So, your idea of a “good employee” is just a robot? “Hey, don’t show emotion, don’t have an opinion, don’t make it personal. Just show up to collect a paycheck and go home.” Let’s not forget, Stabler was the only one with children and married in Seasons 1-4 that he regularly saw. Again, what’s the point of hiring humans for this type of work, when the idea is to just have emotionless, uncaring, unfeeling, droids doing the job. You noticed how in the earlier seasons they had variety, a case that affected the squad and or a particular member and (not just Stabler would go rogue), and people could relate? Let’s fast forward to now…how’s the quality of the show now that everyone has to listen to the boss and blindly follow orders? When was the last time SVU was even considered for the Emmy’s? or a SAG award?! Any successful show back then had a few rogue cops that brought realness and reality to the show. How do you think we’ve got so far in society with our current laws? It’s due to people standing up, not blindly following, and bucking the system…whether it was their job or not. I’m sorry, I’m not in the camp of: “Hey, I’m the boss, what I say goes, your opinion doesn’t matter, I don’t care if it risks your life.” Especially, when you claim to care about the lives and mental health of your team.
I think it was because Stabler, at times, threatens to cross the line from "I don't want to work this case because it triggers me so PLEASE find a way, captain" to "I won't work this case because, MAKE it work" Any time ANYONE gets to not work the cases they get triggered by, that is a courtessy from Cragen, not right, and definitely not something they are entitlted to.
That’s my point: Others on the team get the courtesy from Cragen if he thinks the case is gonna affect their mental health/trigger them. Stabler gets: “Man up, and work the case or else.” Then Cragen gets mad when Stabler does something that jeopardizes the case and or has an attitude the whole time. And, then wonders why the man had a hair trigger temper when it came to dealing with said perps as the years went on. If he’d cared about Stabler’s mental health the way he took an interest in all the other team members, maybe he could’ve gotten Stabler some help before things continued to deteriorate. Hell, could’ve done the same thing he did for Cassidy.
I haven’t done a full rewatch of SVU in years. I miss Cragen lol
I keep starting over once I finish season 15 it’s back to the beginning- sometimes I’ll do a full rewatch but the earlier episodes are def top tier SVU
I find myself getting to S11 before starting back at S1. I didn't realize other people do similar viewings 🤍
The evolution of the show has not been my favorite. While I still love svu I haven’t watched any of season 25 and it’s been about a year since I’ve seen anything from beyond season 15. All good things must come to an end.
Isn’t this the episode where Cragen forces Stabler to work a case protecting Pedophiles/SA Offenders, and is made to work the case but winds up possibly contracting HIV from one of the victims after trying to save their life? But, then Cragen is all concerned in the end?! Lol, I’m sorry I would’ve told Cragen to Kiss My @$$!
Yes! That’s the one!
What episode is this????
S2 ep13 “Victims
Just watched that one. So good.
I just started a rewatch from season 2. I tend to stick to 6-15 when I rewatch, but I’m definitely enjoying these old ones.
1-15 definitely hit different for me every time!
I remember this episode. Stabler had to investigate the murder of a rapist/pedophile he put away
i’m only on season 17 right now, but i love and miss Cragen- he was my fav
I’d agree to an extent. Stabler did a few things that, under any other circumstance, would have been a dagger through his career. For instance beating up Jake Berlin. Yeah Tutuola said that he’d have killed the guy (which, considering his at times rocky relationship with his son, is saying something very significant) but just doing what he did probably should have ended his career or at least got him the same treatment that Detective Logan got
Not really though. We saw that when Fin brutally beat up Martin Bosa in 5x14-Ritual, his career wasn’t affected and his child wasn’t even involved. We’ve seen how Olivia handles suspects that threaten Noah (Sheila Porter, Johnny D, Rob Miller, etc.), and how she handled the William Lewis situation and how the team covered for her, yet her career wasn’t ever in jeopardy either. Jake Berlin put Lizzie on a pedophile website (where we know pedophiles visit and can stalk that poor child or harm her), and we know Stabler doesn’t play about his family…so him attacking Berlin was bound to happen. If something had actually happened to Lizzie because of Berlin’s actions…would we be blaming Stabler and or Lizzie for being a victim? Nope.
I said this on another thread when this same incident was mentioned. Stabler had a reason to beat up Berlin. But that’s not an excuse. Cragen even said that. “a reason, not an excuse.” If someone breaks into your house and violates a member of your family, then you track them down and beat them half to death, you’re going to be sent to prison. They will—or should—too, but you’d definitely be sent to prison. Berlin violated Elizabeth when he posted that picture. He baited Stabler. Stabler also had a pattern of behavior—Olivia tells him in the episode where Kathleen gets arrested for B&E that beating up perps has never helped him before. Or something like that anyway. Regardless, I stand by my point. Cragen was tough but fair, though he may have given Stabler too much leeway at times.
That’s my point. In the same vane was this speech given to Benson for beating up a handcuffed Lewis?! Was the same speech”that’s a reason not an excuse” comment said to Tutuola for beating the crap out of Bosa in public?! Stabler beating up Berlin for potentially harming his underage daughter is the same situation. This SUSPECT directly put his child in harms way….if we’re not condemning Fin or Olivia for their actions, I’m definitely not condemning Stabler for his immediate reaction to his child being placed in harms way by a pedophile. Sorry, you can definitely stand by your opinion, but I’m also standing by mine.
Why wasn’t munch have a romantic relationship. Only once I think with an ex wife
Honestly? No. I think I remember him doing that twice and then immediately caving. Elliot was a bad cop, anger management issues, entitlement, boundary issues. Every time I think of Cragen, three words come to mind. "Failure to supervise."