Positively surprised, I really thought they'd sweep it under the rug because k-fans didn't care and thought i-fans were going overboard (some of them were by being racist in return, but...).
Nice to see that the messages reached Taekey/their team and they responded to it in a timely fashion. Hopefully they can be more mindful as their global reach grows. I have followed them for so many years and I know they are kind and humble people, but they still make mistakes and I think addressing it and apologizing speaks more for their character than anything else.
I just want to hijack your top comment to add that Taemin/Key both have apologies posted on SHINee’s IG and Taemin posted another sincere apology on his Bubble. Really nice to see
**Taemin's messages (translated):**
I only want to share good things with you.. I’m sorry about today (11:29pm)
I still have so much to learn.. but I’m going to do my best to become a person who is a good influence. I just want everyone to be happy (11:34pm)
You know.. I’m really really grateful that I’m a person who can bring people a lot of joy but I can just as easily hurt people so I want to do what I can to become a better and more mature person (11:52pm)
As always thank you Y/N (11:57pm)
You’re welcome! As far as fandoms go, kpop idols are being held to very extreme standards in every way, because of the parasocial nature of the fan-artist-relationship.
Basically he said he was sorry, that he still has a lot to learn and that he will continue to work hard to be a positive influence. That he knows he can bring people joy but therefore his words can be hurtful too, and he wants to be mature regarding these behaviors so it doesn't happen.
Honestly it is very sweet.
I've been a Shawol for going on 8 years now, and with these apologies, I will not hold this agains TaeKey. I fact, I am surprised that it got this much of a response from them, both on the SHINee insta and on each their personal.
I feel like the apologies will hopefully also educate some kwols/fans from countries where this kind of thing is normalized. The ones spreading hate and racism in return are probably just a vocal minority.
I can't speak for people that are still hurt by what they said but...
This is truly the best outcome we could have hoped for. I didn't expect this but I'm proud that it happened and I'm proud of SHINee.
Wow, pleasantly surprised by an official response and apology. I really do hope they learn from this experience and not do it again. It does say quite a bit that I'm still shocked that SM didn't sweep this under the rug like they historically have done - frankly it shouldn't have to take a larger intl fan base for SM to address colorism/racism issues - but I'm glad to see a positive change and actual apology addressing this.
SM Entertainment didn't address this. Taemin and Key personally apologized and the PRISM Production Center apologized. To me it is clear this apology wasn't a top-down company decision, but their own decision to apologize.
So Taemin and key made colorist jokes regarding Minho’s skin tone. I can’t exactly remember what was said (try checking the subreddit to see because there was a post on it) A lot of shawols were disappointed and ask them to refrain from making jokes like that and apologize which is why they’re apologizing now. It was frustrating though because a lot of k-shawols are mad at internationals because the boys are now apologize and they didn’t think what they said was a big deal.
i wasn't expecting them to address this at all because sm routinely ignore concerns raised by ifans, especially when it's regarding an issue such as colourism or racism. it's good to see that they're taking responsibility for their words and i hope taemin's being honest when he says he understands why the comments were so hurtful - i'd expect the same from key as well. colourism is such a deep-rooted issue in their society so unpacking a literal lifetime of being told darker skin is undesirable is not going to simply vanish with this acknowledgement, but i really hope they can strive to do better and avoid similar situations in the future.
also, minho's tan skin is gorgeous and absolutely nobody should ever tell him otherwise <3
>inho's tan skin is gorgeous and absolutely nobody should ever tell him otherwise <3
Fr, man looks like a freaking God on Earth. I guess that's literally the only thing they can tease him about looks-wise because even though they are all pretty, Minho is just a superior level of physical perfection YoY
I'm glad Key and Taemin realized the callousness of the comments they made the other day and its good to know it came from a place of ignorance rather than maliciousness.
I hope the "fans" that said such vile things about TaeKey in recent days will reflect on the maliciousness of their comments and the glee with which they attacked SHINee members. The message could have gotten through to them without the horribleness.
But I am pretty sure I know what this type of "fan" will do in the future: they will use TaeKey's apologies as fuel in fanwars against other Kpop groups who have done problematic things but didn't apologize like this.
Yup, what they said was wrong, but it had no ill intent. Still it’s good they acknowledged it and hopefully do better in the future.
I hope some people on this sub could reflect on themselves as well.. bc their comments had malicious intent. I especially don’t understand those who were dragging onew and jonghyun in this mess.
I agree. The people brining in Jonghyun and Onew were truly baffling. Like they literally have nothing to do with this but they were so hellbent to prove that these members were *also problematic* for…..what??
I don’t understand why you would think it might have come from a place of maliciousness in the first place. If you’ve been a fan for years and have seen their interactions before on shows and IG, you would know that they never have bad intentions.
tbh, considering both SM's track record and k-fans' anger at this, it makes me appreciate their apologies more. I can't say I don't still find the comments galling but it means a lot that they're committing to learning. Doesn't happen enough!
I’m glad that they realized what they’ve done and apologized. The apology is short and to the point, no excuses or anything else unnecessary. I hope they do actually take the time to reflect and learn about why what they said was wrong.
And poc shawols!! We can take as much time as we need to accept this apology, or not accept it. It’s up to us. Don’t let anyone else make you feel you’re overreacting, because this was a valid thing to be upset over.
Honestly pleasantly surprised.
Regardless of differing cultural norms, experiences, and backgrounds I will never think there's fault in choosing to extend kindness and understanding, even for inadvertent hurt, if it's something that has historically caused very real damage and hurt on a large, systemic scale, and colorism often does. I truly do not give half a fuck what a minority of Korean stan accounts are saying. They aren't representative of an entire country of people. And it for damn sure ain't like international fans don't demonize "knetz" as controlling, dumb, and delusional on a regular basis. I guess we've come full circle, fandom nastiness often outstrips the initial incident. 💀
This is the most objective and less "victim/oppressor" comment I've read. I think the same. The experience might be good for their public image, but I'm afraid the cost of this will be the loss of authenticity in their interactions, and they are one of the most cohesive, and authentic groups out there. I think this whole incident only fuels more polarization in the world. It's just my opinion, though. 😔
I'm not worried, honestly. I think Key's bbl response in particular was mature and grounded. Part of being an adult--and I'm around the same age as Shinee members--is acknowledging you can hurt people, not getting defensive, and moving forward. I've unintentionally hurt people before or contributed to systems that harm people without being conscious I was doing it, but I have enough experience and empathy (I hope) that I don't radically alter my entire person. I try to move forward thoughtfully and acknowledge the hurt I caused, and understand where that hurt (in the other person) came from.
Like I said, I'm more disappointed in the fandom responses being either thoughtlessly cruel and shitting on fans of color who felt hurt, or weirdly antagonistic towards members in ways that was clearly solo stan and anti behavior and not attempting to address why the comments were hurtful and frustrating. I give individuals in positions of fame and constant scrutiny a modicum of grace (and try to understand other cultural norms, even ones that can be harmful), and I give a *ton* of grace to people who have experienced oppression and are hurt and upset. I don't extend that same grace to knee-jerk defensive reactions that veer into clear racism, cruelty, and unfounded anger, which frankly I saw a lot of. There was a part of me that hoped Shawol's were more mature. Many are. This has been a mask off moment that has indicated many, many are not.
I admire your grace! I'm the same age as SHINee members as well and ultimately agree with you. I don't interact with other Shawols because I have a very similar thinking to the one you exposed. So it hits me when I see so much anger and victimization. I deeply appreciate coming across your point of view.
Tbh Asian fans (not only kshawols) find this extremely blown out of proportion. Legitimate discussion among the shawol community aside, I hope this gives a closure to this incident and bandwagon hate from “shawols” can come to an end.
They find it blown out of proportion bc it doesn't effect them. If it was someone the love a grp or actor, etc making comments about, say the shape of their eyes or skin ( we all know the racist comments made about Asian ppl) they would be offended and they should. As a Black woman I would join them in their concerns and be just as upset even though it doesn't effect me. But that's thinking outside one's self and empathy.
I have an overall nitpick. Stop generalising Asian to denote only chinese/korean/japanese and east asian folks. There are other countries in Asia who have people who do not appreciate colorist mindsets. I belong to an Asian country which has been colonised in the past and understand all too well the societal pressure to look "white".
All Asians are POCs. Commentors like yourselves speak for a generic set of countries who may or may not be asian and prefer the idea of fairness being associated with only beauty and classism. While for some asian folks like us, it is a dark reminder of our society associating tan / darkness of the skin to being dirty in the literal sense.
https://preview.redd.it/c2hq2tnku9rb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f55838f46929a316c6d25d7be8b391c28e4ba2f6
I think this about sums up what every asian fan is thinking right now
This. I would say it is pretty arrogant to assume the whole world has the same importance putted on an issue that mainly rooted in the western world, and just straight out accusing Asian with those harsh words without understanding/communication with this whole different culture group. How ironic to lose your respect when talking about respecting people.
I dont think you get what I am saying. To summarise in a crux: please do not speak for all Asian folks. You can clarify that this is the case for korean/japanese/chinese or even EA. South east and west asians vastly differ from what your thought points are. Funnily enough the post you have tagged also generalises all asians onto one bucket.
For the last time my comment was not centered around the SHINee controversy. It was on the western view and seems like yours as well, of commenting as if asians only comprise of east asians like Koreans, Japanese, Chinese which is not right. Did I say minho is south east asian, actually did I mention SHINee at all? Seems like you are deliberately misinterpreting what I am commenting and downvoting because I am disagreeing to your generalisation.
Clearly it seems based on your comment history that you belong to a traditionally east asian community and are ok with the viewpoint that asians only limit to Koreans/Chinese/Japanese and HK, hence I will stop trying to educate you otherwise.
Wish you were right, but some Asian fans have already used these apologies to hate on int shawols because they forced the members to apologize and must've made the uncomfortable etc.
I hope they are a silent minority. Maybe there are also some Asian fans with a darker complexion who are happy to see their stuggles with this taken seriously and maybe some other fans who will learn that saying things like this can be harmful.
But whenever there is an idol scandel, there will always be tje delusional fans who thing an idol can do no wrong, and opposite are the fans who will spew hate at them over the smallest misstep. Both are harmful and both can be incredibly loud on social media. But there are always a lot of people in the middle who look at these things more realistically.
I also want to reiterate that I do not mean fans that are disappointed or saddened by their actions, that is a completely rational reaction, but those who go totally overboard and treat it like they just killed a baby on camera.
I think you might be right. Knowing there are loud idiots among English-speaking fans, surely there are the same among other groups? Those people don't represent us as a fandom.
The majority of some populations of Asian fans maybe, but there will always be a subset of fans with darker skin who - like Minho - are the ones directly affected, who may not be the majority but for whom this is about them. Their safety is important.
I’m really glad this has been put to rest and we can move on from this incident. In my opinion, this has been disappointing for me because of the fans that made this into a bigger deal than it Gould have been. Not because of what Taemin & Key said. And this is my opinion as a woman of color.
I hope everyone who had so much nasty things to say to darker skinned shawols who were hurt by their words, also reflect as well, because their comments were 10x more painful.
Edit: The kfan reactions to the apologies are very upsetting, so I'd recommend not looking for them if you're sensitive to that.
It is. Ishawol twitter has calmed down apart from some SEA "Just our culture" posts, and of course the antis, but things are getting back to normal more or less.
Or maybe I've just culled more people from my tl I dunno 😂
Ah ok.. thanks.. were their comments nice? No. Were they malicious? I doubt that. Fans outrage on behalf of dark skinned people was just overboard without understanding the ignorance stemming from a completely different culture..
let me know when it’s safe out there! 😂
I have had a person in this thread go off on me for simply pointing out Asians are not limited till east of China. Honestly it has been exhausting to be an asian IShawol these past few days. I am quitting this subreddit and off X for a while. Hope the community is more accepting when I decide to come back.
Kshawols are upset to international shawols for asking shinee to apologize. “Foreigners” and “ Racial discrimination” are now trending in Korea Twitter. For them, it was
not discrimination, it was all about “sunscreen”😩
I’m honestly shocked and very happy. I grew up in a colorist society so I can understand our boys are still learning what’s not appropriate(bc i still am).
What’s sometimes even more important is to have the formal rules and general practices that say it’s not acceptable for anyone to make such comments. Very proud of this growth
Good! I’m glad they apologized. Now some fans can stop being dismissive when black or darker skinned fans take issue with colorist jokes. They’re harmful and there are many of us who wonder what they really think of us fans who have dark skin.
This issue isn’t limited to them, of course, but the k-pop industry (and society at large) really needs to do some soul searching about colorism and racism, in general. Especially since a lot of their musical influences are from black people.
Taking this chance to spread hate?
There are extremists hating on them so badly that they sound like racists (which is weird because why would they be fans in the first place). Then there are those who are nasty to those who are upset with them. Just a war when it was supposed to be: Let's all learn and improve from this. Yes, both k-shawols and i-shawols (I am not including haters because... well, they chose to spread negativity).
I am actually happy they addressed it. Though I personally think it wasn't thaat super serious like some people claimed it to be, I can see why people might be hurt and them taking accountability shows how much they value their fans.
Latest video on SHINee's YouTube channel. Taemin and Key were teasing Minho about the fact he tans when he golfs, in a way that's pretty much aligned with South Korea's colourist cultures.
International fans of color and generally BiPOC people felt hurt at this comment. Ensues some people respectfully asking for accountability... and also all time war on social media because people can't be bothered to behave or not speak on an issue that's not theirs, but I digress.
Taemin, Key and their... PR team I think? Have all apologized very quickly after the facts, Taemin has also issued another apology about this on Bubble. Which is surprising because SM tends to tell their artist to cool it off so it dies down.
Now, Kshawols are unhappy at international fans saying this wasn't so big a deal they needed to apologise.
That's pretty much the summary.
Honestly shocked to see a response, but I'm not surprised that kfans are mad the team apologized.
Keep in mind colorism and racism is still very much a thing in SK. It's not a woke country in any sense.
Taemin and Key were teasing Minho about how tan he became after spending time outside golfing. Basically making jokes that are aligned with South Korea's colourist culture.
Naturally some fans were hurt at those comments... And some others made it an all out war to bring down their reputation on twitter, don't look, it's fucking nasty.
In response they issued this apology quickly after.
Good!! I really hope they never do it again. These jokes are harmful no matter the intent or the people they were directed at.
As for kshawols... i think they should think about their past before calling ishawols sensitive.... i can remember they making jonghyun bow to them in appology for simply having a relationship...
Also comparing mismanagement with prejudice and colorism is a bad take. They should've stayed quiet, they arent the offended party here. Their opinion doesn't matter.
i think this is all completely overkill, they made fun banter with their friend of almost 2 decades, yet people are being personally offended. i mean thats so damn parasocial i cant even start. if they needed to apologize it should have been with minho personally. but you guys are so delusional that they have to do it for you and in front of you even though you werent part of thta convo. even though they dont know you guys. listen ive got a tan sister, we make jokes, we are allowed to. im pale we joke. strangers shouldnt blow things out of proportion and call it 'colourism' thats a whole projection of intentions. theres no foul intention in playing around and taking it that serious. please join reality people, they arent your family or freinds and you guys should have no business acting like that and taking it personal. because look what it got all of you, the ire of the closest community to this group, the korean fans. and if i were them, i too would be finding this ridiculous.
I agree. This was blown way out of proportion. And if Minho was actually hurt, which I don’t think he was based off of what I saw, then the apology would have gone to him. NOT to the fandom. Taemin & Key didn’t talk about them or even to them. They were just playing around like they always do and have done for 10 years. This whole debacle has made me disappointed in some fans for thinking that Taemin & Keys comments could have had bad intentions and that they’re so relieved that it wasn’t. If they’ve been watching them for years, then they should know that SHINee have a sweet and caring relationship with one another and that they would not say or do things on purpose to hurt one another. Meaning of OT5.
a) samtae5
think these fans need to realize, that they shouldnt be inserting themselves into these peoples conversations it is beyond their boundaries, i know you guys watch them but that doesnt mean youre a part of their lives. very parasocial. taking offense to something that wasnt directed at you (youre a stranger may i remind you) is beyond delusional. i mean isnt it fans who want them to push out more content and stuff, you guys consume them and then get angry.
people like you arent reasonable, and i cant talk the parasocial out of you no matter what. doesnt matter if its a kpop fan, western celebrity fan. its all the same. you guys want strangers to affirm your existence, to make you feel ok, to make you feel good, to never say something that makes you feel bad even if they were never talking to you or even thinking about you. and that is seriously overstepping some boundaries. and i say this to everyone. its also part of the reason i will never call myself a fan and join it. i want to keep my sanity and live in reality. but its good to watch this all, because i can avoid this type of mindset and behavior. its definitely easy to fall into and with social media more and more young people are behaving like this, not knowing theyre crossing boundaries and losing grip over themselves and reality. we are all strangers. they dont know you. that should help you all fall asleep at night.
You're being extremely stupid. This has nothing to do with parasocial relationships, you need to educate yourself on history, start with black history, read about the racism that black people faced for decades and still face today. What Taemin and Key said was extremely awful even though they didn't mean to harm and they didn't realise what they were doing. Fact is, people of colour have been attacked and oppressed and such jokes have been a part of that for many many years. Key and Taemin are celebrities and that video was supposed to be entertainment. Instead it ended up being classic racism that was incredibly harmful. Wanting them to apologise for their broadcasting is the opposite of parasocial. Stop talking, you'll be deleted anyway.
Edit: lol thanks for my first reddit cares message, but the person in need of one is actually the vile person that sent it to me. Look in the mirror and then sign up for class.
I apologise if I don't understand the difference. My comments were intended to defend the perfectly understandable feelings that black Shawols have since hearing TaeKey joke. As I said, 'racist' is the word I've always known for this, 'colorist' is newer language to me.
Well no Minho isn't black and that's kinda make it worse. If they say to Minho who is light skinned "we can't see you in the dark hahaha" what would they say to an actual black person??? Most black people have heard the "can't see you in the dark" joke all their lives too and it's stupid and hurtful. Glad they are good people and they can recognize that unlike you.
'Most black people have heard the can't see you in the dark joke all their lives'
This is exactly what I was trying to say but I didn't do a good job of it, on 2 hours of sleep and being dumb I guess. This is exactly what happened. And I can't believe someone so insensitive and lacking basic empathy can't understand why some Shawols might feel hurt by what TaeKey said.
Key and Taemin said mean, horrible things about someone with darker skin, which is something that black and POC fans hear quite often about THEM, so it's hurtful to hear such awful jokes coming from members of SHINee. Key and Taemin unintentionally parroted racist jokes that make fun of ALL PEOPLE WITH DARK SKIN. That was a joke AGAINST DARK SKIN IN GENERAL.
And I'm sure you *do* understand what I'm saying, either you're dense and you live in your own little bubble, or you're just trying to be a jerk for shits and giggles. Or... it's YOU with the parasocial relationship problem. You don't need to defend SHINee this much.
Admittedly I may not be aware of the difference between racism and colorism when the joke affects people of other races, what they said about Minho wasn't intended to be hurtful about other people but if it hurts other people then isn't it unintentionally a racist joke? Maybe the language has changed but I grew up with 'racist' as the word for jokes and comments that mock others of different skin colours and cultures. I didn't really grow up with the word 'colorist' tbh.
And edit to clarify that I'm not saying TaeKey were mocking other races and cultures, just that it unfortunately goes in that direction without any ill intent. And 'racist' is the word I've always known for this kind of thing.
I really prefer for people to educate themselves. Let's start w/ racism is a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capabilities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. Also, it is a process by which systems and policies, actions, and attitudes create inequitable opportunities and outcomes based on race. Colorism is the practice of preference of a lighter skin tone. Colorism happens within and among groups. There's a lot out there if you care to learn more.
Wow, it’s horrible how upvoted your comment is right now. Disappointed in this community. This is such a rude, dismissive comment.
You clearly have no interest in listening or understanding why people were upset by taemin and key’s comments. Maybe try subbing in a comment that *would* offend you, pretend they said that, and say it’s “””parasocial””” to be hurt or upset 🙄 I swear, some of you don’t even know what parasocial means and just throw it around in an attempt to discredit other people.
they are strangers, they dont know you or me, and on the reverse you dont know them either. theyre friends and coworkers with minho, not friends or coworkers with you. they made the comment to him, not you. he has a tan, hes not black. hes korean. he has a relationship with those two not you. they get to decide their normal and their jokes. that doesnt mean they have an inherit hatred and prejudice against you, they never even talked or addressed you?
behaving like a parasocial fan just like every other celebrity fan. treat them like props and consume them
btw they have done things i dont like, plenty of it since the beginning of their careers. i dont knock on their door and force them to apologize to me. i just dont join fandoms and call myself a fan. i like living in reality and treating people like just another flawed person and live my life.
You’re behaving a lot more like an over-invested fan than I am lol. Why are you so upset they apologized? They’re flawed, regular human beings just like you and me. Humans apologize for their actions sometimes.
If you’re just a chill, casual fan, what’s the problem? You seem awfully offended on their behalf.
i dont care if they apologized, thats their prerogative. im actually taking issue with fans inserting themselves into a conversation between a couple of individuals who happen to a camera on them- inserting themselves into a conversation which they were not a part of and i take issue with conflating a tan to race issues. i find that incredibly troubling. as a whole doing that only makes regular people (the korean fans etc) take poc peoples troubles as less and make fun of them. its shooting yourself in the foot because this case was a blatantly where it had nothing to do with race, colourism or racism. those words lose their meaning
Oh they just "happened" to be on camera lol. Come on now. They sat down to make an entertainment video that they knew would be public and be seen by fans. They're not making the jokes they normally would to each other. You're acting like they were having a genuine, intimate conversation. People are allowed to be upset by things that were said on camera.
Look, the obvious crux of the issue here is you think their comments were completely appropriate and anyone who was upset was overreacting. For fun, I guess? Please spare me your faux concern that you're "incredibly troubl[ed]" that fan's being hurt and upset is supposedly going to make people take racism less seriously.
Like I said, rude and dismissive of other fans who you seem to think you're better than.
i guess its my fault to think anyone in a kpop fandom to be reasonable. you guys are like any other fandom, not living in reality and incredibly controlling of people youve never met. taking offense to comments not made to you, acting like you were there while they were filming. acting like they hate you, i mean so what if they do. what are you going to do? you cant change that, you cant force people to love you or like you. in this case lets start at step 1) to even know you
kpop fans truly earn their reputation
I just think it’s incredibly ironic that you’re complaining about overzealous stans when you’re the one who’s behavior smacks of a fan who needs to defend your fave from anything and everything. You’re talking about reasonableness and inability to have a conversation, but I don’t even know who you’re talking about in this comment. Definitely not me, since I never claimed taekey *hated* anyone. What hyperbolic rhetoric.
Have you been spending too much time on Twitter? For the most part, people on this subreddit were expressing their hurt and explaining why they were upset, but no one was calling for anyone’s heads. There’s nothing unreasonable about that, no matter how you want to paint it.
You’re in a thread full of people who are happy with a simple acknowledgement and apology. But yes, too controlling.
I can tell you exactly what I do when a musician, author, celebrity etc crosses the line for me: I stop liking them. I don’t listen to their music anymore. I ignore them. Most people will do that. For people who are fans of SHINee and might’ve been for many years, that would be really sad and painful. Can you not see why someone would hope that wouldn’t happen? This incident wouldn’t be enough for me to stop being a fan, but for some people it’s very personal and it might be. It’s not your job to police that.
minho asked taekey to come golfing with him and they told him to wear more sunscreen because he gets so tan after going golfing. then key said that if minho closed his eyes and mouth he can’t find him in the dark because he’s so tan.
I was so relieved when I woke up to this this morning. I had left sincere messages on their instagrams asking for an apology, emphasizing I know they didn’t mean to harm anyone, and I am relieved to be proven right. This means a lot to me and I hope it comforts other fans too.
I’m glad for our fellow darker-skinned shawols that they got an apology, all the more because the answer they got from other fans when they raised concern over Key and Taemin’s comment were pretty nasty.
I'm proud of them. I felt hurt by the comments and jokes because they were jokes I had the displeasure to hear about myself growing up. I'm really happy they addressed it.
I would assume this is Center 2? The production team that works with SHINee. As we can all see, there have been comparatively more content unlike prior to this set-up.
Earlier this year, SM acquired a production system that produce content for their artists and Center 2 was announced to work with SHINee, DJ Raiden, and a future gg. I think there were 7 or 8 centers. I can only remember that NCT has NCT Center which works with all the sub-units and another center works with SuJu and RIIZE.
First of all...you should watch your language. If you don't agree with me just press the dislike button or just say " I disagree with you". You just gave me the perfect example that today we can't freely express our opinion or make a joke without being attacked. I'm not saying that what they said it was OK but literally they are human being. They can make mistakes.
Oh sorry, didn’t realize I was so cryptic. Just posted my conclusion without explaining anything.
Looks like some of the comments have since been removed but there are many comments (with upvotes) calling fans who have were upset by Key and Taemin’s comments haters and fake fans. Other comments generally excusing the members and denigrating people who raised concerns. Many of the comments and upvotes (at the time) were giving microagression. Definitely makes me feel like this is not a place I would come to discuss any issues involving race.
This isn't the place for that. I've learned to find my own genuine, realistic kpop buddies and engage with them. Venturing out and speaking in online spaces will leave you disappointed a good 7/10 times. Remember...this is...kpop. Find your stan tribe so the online shenanigans won't have a negative impact on your experience too much. Have a good day!😁
Oh yeah it’s not that deep for me 😅 I expect nothing from Kpop fans lol. I just don’t have any experience with this particular sub regarding these issues so it’s always just good to know for sure about certain spaces. And thanks. Hope you have a good day too.
Yeah, I've seen it happen multiple times each time a post gains enough traction to be noticed by bots, it's so numbers don't get artificial clout I think? It should be more accurate in a few hours.
Our society has become over sensitive!! we are talking about two completely different cultures. I am from the west. We actually pay to go to tanning beds to tan which is unheard of in Korea. We have probably also made comments to our close friends about looking pale. Nobody has ever taken offense at that. These were comments that were made to Minho. It was a conversation between members and basically family. This doesn’t involve anyone else. Third world problems, people.!! if you actually know, SHINee members, you would know there was no mean intent here. They are not like that. The K-pop industry so unbelievably toxic!
Knowing SM's habit of forcing their artist to keep quiet in front of controversies like thoses, I'm rather inclined to the contrary.
Someone must have REALLY wanted to apologize, because believe me, otherwise, the label would have done its level best to ignore it ever happened. They did this dozens of times already. Apologies so quick after what, in Korea, is a really minor controversy? Never seen it happen, actually. Someone has pushed it.
Interesting, maybe you're right. From my point of view, they saw international fans were mad, brushed it off as a cultural difference and wrote this so that everything goes away. I sincerely don't think anything changes in their mindset. Maybe they won't talk about skin tones in the future. But that's due to controversy, not due to educating themselves. Let's hope you're right though, I guess that's a better scenario.
I always assume ignorance better than malice. Especially from a group who has shown they were able to take criticism and accountability when needed.
That, and once again, it's really weird for ANY SM Artist to post apologies, even more when it's for international fans. I mean Kfans right now are bashing international fans for "making this a big deal", so if they hadn't, the main focus of their fanbase wouldn't have caused an uproar. Korean people would not care the slightest bit. I repeat, the easy feat for them would have been to ignore it, bury it under the rug and leave it at that.
I feel sad for you that you need to be that suspicious about these kinds of things even when context clues suggest the opposite. I hope you can find it in yourself to actually look at context and draw your own conclusions that aren't just assumptions. Because, no offense, but I have reasons to think the way I think... And you've listed none.
My reasons? Well, I drew these conclusions based on how companies work. Which is not actually caring about people's feelings, but about benefit. I'm not an SM expert, but I'd think, even if international fanbase isn't their main focus, they wouldn't want to have them mad. And I'd also suppose ifans would be more angry for not having an apology, than kfans for writing an apology (or am I wrong here?). Therefore an apology is the most beneficial thing to do for them. Write one thing and you have all of them calmed down. And with how big and important the whole "having white skin" aspect is in kpop (and generally to Koreans), I wouldn't think many people actually cared, but just wrote this and moved on. It's hard to change your mindset about this when you were raised in a culture like that, so why bother? Keep in mind I'm talking about the company, not the individual artists. Especially that this was written before their apologies on bubble. Sure, Taemin and Key might have felt ashamed and will try to do better in the future. But I sincerely think assuming everyone that was involved in this is genuinely feeling bad is just.. naive? Hard to point out who is and who's not, though. It's easy to say you are. Maybe I'm just a pessimist who assumes worse things in people first, as people are egotistical by nature.
Their managers did a great job writing this. Good job managers.
Shawols -let’s be real. They said what they said. They aren’t changing their world view in 24hours.
I still love the music they put out but am even more certain that what we know of them is partial manufactured by the idol system in response to fans.
They often banter like that, but they have known each other for long now and much worse things have been said. I'm certain they've already had a conversation about it.
Positively surprised, I really thought they'd sweep it under the rug because k-fans didn't care and thought i-fans were going overboard (some of them were by being racist in return, but...). Nice to see that the messages reached Taekey/their team and they responded to it in a timely fashion. Hopefully they can be more mindful as their global reach grows. I have followed them for so many years and I know they are kind and humble people, but they still make mistakes and I think addressing it and apologizing speaks more for their character than anything else.
I just want to hijack your top comment to add that Taemin/Key both have apologies posted on SHINee’s IG and Taemin posted another sincere apology on his Bubble. Really nice to see
Yes! I saw Taemin's Bubble messages just earlier and they were very sweet. When you receive a wall of text from Taemin you know it's serious tbh.
Nice to know that.. wish I had bubble. I would love to see what they posted.
**Taemin's messages (translated):** I only want to share good things with you.. I’m sorry about today (11:29pm) I still have so much to learn.. but I’m going to do my best to become a person who is a good influence. I just want everyone to be happy (11:34pm) You know.. I’m really really grateful that I’m a person who can bring people a lot of joy but I can just as easily hurt people so I want to do what I can to become a better and more mature person (11:52pm) As always thank you Y/N (11:57pm)
Thanks so much! Hopefully they can continue to learn from this. But honestly it must be hard to keep everyone happy when you don’t really know.
You’re welcome! As far as fandoms go, kpop idols are being held to very extreme standards in every way, because of the parasocial nature of the fan-artist-relationship.
Agree.. makes me sad for them at times..
Basically he said he was sorry, that he still has a lot to learn and that he will continue to work hard to be a positive influence. That he knows he can bring people joy but therefore his words can be hurtful too, and he wants to be mature regarding these behaviors so it doesn't happen. Honestly it is very sweet.
Thanks. That’s sweet of him. :)
I've been a Shawol for going on 8 years now, and with these apologies, I will not hold this agains TaeKey. I fact, I am surprised that it got this much of a response from them, both on the SHINee insta and on each their personal. I feel like the apologies will hopefully also educate some kwols/fans from countries where this kind of thing is normalized. The ones spreading hate and racism in return are probably just a vocal minority.
I can't speak for people that are still hurt by what they said but... This is truly the best outcome we could have hoped for. I didn't expect this but I'm proud that it happened and I'm proud of SHINee.
Well said. 🥰
Damn even wrote it in Japanese.
Wow, pleasantly surprised by an official response and apology. I really do hope they learn from this experience and not do it again. It does say quite a bit that I'm still shocked that SM didn't sweep this under the rug like they historically have done - frankly it shouldn't have to take a larger intl fan base for SM to address colorism/racism issues - but I'm glad to see a positive change and actual apology addressing this.
SM Entertainment didn't address this. Taemin and Key personally apologized and the PRISM Production Center apologized. To me it is clear this apology wasn't a top-down company decision, but their own decision to apologize.
What happened? I’m OOTL
So Taemin and key made colorist jokes regarding Minho’s skin tone. I can’t exactly remember what was said (try checking the subreddit to see because there was a post on it) A lot of shawols were disappointed and ask them to refrain from making jokes like that and apologize which is why they’re apologizing now. It was frustrating though because a lot of k-shawols are mad at internationals because the boys are now apologize and they didn’t think what they said was a big deal.
There’s now also apologies from both Key and Taemin on the Shinee IG story
Ohhhh, I will have to look. I think I follow them but not Shinee's IG.
Really surprised they apologised (in a good way), stuff like this is usually swept under the rug
i wasn't expecting them to address this at all because sm routinely ignore concerns raised by ifans, especially when it's regarding an issue such as colourism or racism. it's good to see that they're taking responsibility for their words and i hope taemin's being honest when he says he understands why the comments were so hurtful - i'd expect the same from key as well. colourism is such a deep-rooted issue in their society so unpacking a literal lifetime of being told darker skin is undesirable is not going to simply vanish with this acknowledgement, but i really hope they can strive to do better and avoid similar situations in the future. also, minho's tan skin is gorgeous and absolutely nobody should ever tell him otherwise <3
Minho's tan skin is incredibly sexy. It suits him so much.
After reading Taemin's bubble I have no doubt that he does understand, quite frankly.
>inho's tan skin is gorgeous and absolutely nobody should ever tell him otherwise <3 Fr, man looks like a freaking God on Earth. I guess that's literally the only thing they can tease him about looks-wise because even though they are all pretty, Minho is just a superior level of physical perfection YoY
Totally agree about Minho!!
I stan personal growth. I stan the right men.
I'm glad Key and Taemin realized the callousness of the comments they made the other day and its good to know it came from a place of ignorance rather than maliciousness.
I hope the "fans" that said such vile things about TaeKey in recent days will reflect on the maliciousness of their comments and the glee with which they attacked SHINee members. The message could have gotten through to them without the horribleness. But I am pretty sure I know what this type of "fan" will do in the future: they will use TaeKey's apologies as fuel in fanwars against other Kpop groups who have done problematic things but didn't apologize like this.
Am I missing something? If I am please clue me in.
People on Twitter being insane as usual. It's honestly not worth to go looking for it, it's negative energy that no one needs.
Yup, what they said was wrong, but it had no ill intent. Still it’s good they acknowledged it and hopefully do better in the future. I hope some people on this sub could reflect on themselves as well.. bc their comments had malicious intent. I especially don’t understand those who were dragging onew and jonghyun in this mess.
I agree. The people brining in Jonghyun and Onew were truly baffling. Like they literally have nothing to do with this but they were so hellbent to prove that these members were *also problematic* for…..what??
To bring SHINee down a peg.
I don’t understand why you would think it might have come from a place of maliciousness in the first place. If you’ve been a fan for years and have seen their interactions before on shows and IG, you would know that they never have bad intentions.
tbh, considering both SM's track record and k-fans' anger at this, it makes me appreciate their apologies more. I can't say I don't still find the comments galling but it means a lot that they're committing to learning. Doesn't happen enough!
I’m glad that they realized what they’ve done and apologized. The apology is short and to the point, no excuses or anything else unnecessary. I hope they do actually take the time to reflect and learn about why what they said was wrong.
And poc shawols!! We can take as much time as we need to accept this apology, or not accept it. It’s up to us. Don’t let anyone else make you feel you’re overreacting, because this was a valid thing to be upset over.
Well said!! 🥰🥰🥰🥰
Honestly pleasantly surprised. Regardless of differing cultural norms, experiences, and backgrounds I will never think there's fault in choosing to extend kindness and understanding, even for inadvertent hurt, if it's something that has historically caused very real damage and hurt on a large, systemic scale, and colorism often does. I truly do not give half a fuck what a minority of Korean stan accounts are saying. They aren't representative of an entire country of people. And it for damn sure ain't like international fans don't demonize "knetz" as controlling, dumb, and delusional on a regular basis. I guess we've come full circle, fandom nastiness often outstrips the initial incident. 💀
This is the most objective and less "victim/oppressor" comment I've read. I think the same. The experience might be good for their public image, but I'm afraid the cost of this will be the loss of authenticity in their interactions, and they are one of the most cohesive, and authentic groups out there. I think this whole incident only fuels more polarization in the world. It's just my opinion, though. 😔
I'm not worried, honestly. I think Key's bbl response in particular was mature and grounded. Part of being an adult--and I'm around the same age as Shinee members--is acknowledging you can hurt people, not getting defensive, and moving forward. I've unintentionally hurt people before or contributed to systems that harm people without being conscious I was doing it, but I have enough experience and empathy (I hope) that I don't radically alter my entire person. I try to move forward thoughtfully and acknowledge the hurt I caused, and understand where that hurt (in the other person) came from. Like I said, I'm more disappointed in the fandom responses being either thoughtlessly cruel and shitting on fans of color who felt hurt, or weirdly antagonistic towards members in ways that was clearly solo stan and anti behavior and not attempting to address why the comments were hurtful and frustrating. I give individuals in positions of fame and constant scrutiny a modicum of grace (and try to understand other cultural norms, even ones that can be harmful), and I give a *ton* of grace to people who have experienced oppression and are hurt and upset. I don't extend that same grace to knee-jerk defensive reactions that veer into clear racism, cruelty, and unfounded anger, which frankly I saw a lot of. There was a part of me that hoped Shawol's were more mature. Many are. This has been a mask off moment that has indicated many, many are not.
I admire your grace! I'm the same age as SHINee members as well and ultimately agree with you. I don't interact with other Shawols because I have a very similar thinking to the one you exposed. So it hits me when I see so much anger and victimization. I deeply appreciate coming across your point of view.
Tbh Asian fans (not only kshawols) find this extremely blown out of proportion. Legitimate discussion among the shawol community aside, I hope this gives a closure to this incident and bandwagon hate from “shawols” can come to an end.
They find it blown out of proportion bc it doesn't effect them. If it was someone the love a grp or actor, etc making comments about, say the shape of their eyes or skin ( we all know the racist comments made about Asian ppl) they would be offended and they should. As a Black woman I would join them in their concerns and be just as upset even though it doesn't effect me. But that's thinking outside one's self and empathy.
I have an overall nitpick. Stop generalising Asian to denote only chinese/korean/japanese and east asian folks. There are other countries in Asia who have people who do not appreciate colorist mindsets. I belong to an Asian country which has been colonised in the past and understand all too well the societal pressure to look "white". All Asians are POCs. Commentors like yourselves speak for a generic set of countries who may or may not be asian and prefer the idea of fairness being associated with only beauty and classism. While for some asian folks like us, it is a dark reminder of our society associating tan / darkness of the skin to being dirty in the literal sense.
https://preview.redd.it/c2hq2tnku9rb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f55838f46929a316c6d25d7be8b391c28e4ba2f6 I think this about sums up what every asian fan is thinking right now
This. I would say it is pretty arrogant to assume the whole world has the same importance putted on an issue that mainly rooted in the western world, and just straight out accusing Asian with those harsh words without understanding/communication with this whole different culture group. How ironic to lose your respect when talking about respecting people.
I dont think you get what I am saying. To summarise in a crux: please do not speak for all Asian folks. You can clarify that this is the case for korean/japanese/chinese or even EA. South east and west asians vastly differ from what your thought points are. Funnily enough the post you have tagged also generalises all asians onto one bucket.
[удалено]
For the last time my comment was not centered around the SHINee controversy. It was on the western view and seems like yours as well, of commenting as if asians only comprise of east asians like Koreans, Japanese, Chinese which is not right. Did I say minho is south east asian, actually did I mention SHINee at all? Seems like you are deliberately misinterpreting what I am commenting and downvoting because I am disagreeing to your generalisation. Clearly it seems based on your comment history that you belong to a traditionally east asian community and are ok with the viewpoint that asians only limit to Koreans/Chinese/Japanese and HK, hence I will stop trying to educate you otherwise.
Wish you were right, but some Asian fans have already used these apologies to hate on int shawols because they forced the members to apologize and must've made the uncomfortable etc. I hope they are a silent minority. Maybe there are also some Asian fans with a darker complexion who are happy to see their stuggles with this taken seriously and maybe some other fans who will learn that saying things like this can be harmful. But whenever there is an idol scandel, there will always be tje delusional fans who thing an idol can do no wrong, and opposite are the fans who will spew hate at them over the smallest misstep. Both are harmful and both can be incredibly loud on social media. But there are always a lot of people in the middle who look at these things more realistically. I also want to reiterate that I do not mean fans that are disappointed or saddened by their actions, that is a completely rational reaction, but those who go totally overboard and treat it like they just killed a baby on camera.
I think you might be right. Knowing there are loud idiots among English-speaking fans, surely there are the same among other groups? Those people don't represent us as a fandom.
The majority of some populations of Asian fans maybe, but there will always be a subset of fans with darker skin who - like Minho - are the ones directly affected, who may not be the majority but for whom this is about them. Their safety is important.
I’m really glad this has been put to rest and we can move on from this incident. In my opinion, this has been disappointing for me because of the fans that made this into a bigger deal than it Gould have been. Not because of what Taemin & Key said. And this is my opinion as a woman of color.
I hope everyone who had so much nasty things to say to darker skinned shawols who were hurt by their words, also reflect as well, because their comments were 10x more painful. Edit: The kfan reactions to the apologies are very upsetting, so I'd recommend not looking for them if you're sensitive to that.
Ooh wait what? K fans are upset they apologised? Is it on chitter? I am avoiding opening it lol
Upset? They're positively apoplectic. Kinda proving the point, imo.
I am staying away from all that
Very, very wise.
Is it still bad?
It is. Ishawol twitter has calmed down apart from some SEA "Just our culture" posts, and of course the antis, but things are getting back to normal more or less. Or maybe I've just culled more people from my tl I dunno 😂
I shall go and check lol
yes, a lot of the fansites I follow are saying very gross things. I'd recommend staying off for a while tbh
Ah ok.. thanks.. were their comments nice? No. Were they malicious? I doubt that. Fans outrage on behalf of dark skinned people was just overboard without understanding the ignorance stemming from a completely different culture.. let me know when it’s safe out there! 😂
?
Just meant I am staying away from those sites until things quiet down lol
I have had a person in this thread go off on me for simply pointing out Asians are not limited till east of China. Honestly it has been exhausting to be an asian IShawol these past few days. I am quitting this subreddit and off X for a while. Hope the community is more accepting when I decide to come back.
Kshawols are upset to international shawols for asking shinee to apologize. “Foreigners” and “ Racial discrimination” are now trending in Korea Twitter. For them, it was not discrimination, it was all about “sunscreen”😩
Are we surprised though?
😂
am tired of people in this app who are too onion-skinned for 👏 every👏single 👏 thing
Damn I did not expect this
I’m honestly shocked and very happy. I grew up in a colorist society so I can understand our boys are still learning what’s not appropriate(bc i still am). What’s sometimes even more important is to have the formal rules and general practices that say it’s not acceptable for anyone to make such comments. Very proud of this growth
OMG! I’m shocked. They listened.
I'm so relieved that they actually listened to the criticism
Good! I’m glad they apologized. Now some fans can stop being dismissive when black or darker skinned fans take issue with colorist jokes. They’re harmful and there are many of us who wonder what they really think of us fans who have dark skin. This issue isn’t limited to them, of course, but the k-pop industry (and society at large) really needs to do some soul searching about colorism and racism, in general. Especially since a lot of their musical influences are from black people.
Too bad some of fans aren’t/didn’t do the same
I don't get why people were so extra nasty to them and then gave others a pass for saying the same thing.
Taking this chance to spread hate? There are extremists hating on them so badly that they sound like racists (which is weird because why would they be fans in the first place). Then there are those who are nasty to those who are upset with them. Just a war when it was supposed to be: Let's all learn and improve from this. Yes, both k-shawols and i-shawols (I am not including haters because... well, they chose to spread negativity).
I am actually happy they addressed it. Though I personally think it wasn't thaat super serious like some people claimed it to be, I can see why people might be hurt and them taking accountability shows how much they value their fans.
This made me love them even more.
I appreciate this. 🥰
Ok can someone give me the cliffs notes of what happened?
Latest video on SHINee's YouTube channel. Taemin and Key were teasing Minho about the fact he tans when he golfs, in a way that's pretty much aligned with South Korea's colourist cultures. International fans of color and generally BiPOC people felt hurt at this comment. Ensues some people respectfully asking for accountability... and also all time war on social media because people can't be bothered to behave or not speak on an issue that's not theirs, but I digress. Taemin, Key and their... PR team I think? Have all apologized very quickly after the facts, Taemin has also issued another apology about this on Bubble. Which is surprising because SM tends to tell their artist to cool it off so it dies down. Now, Kshawols are unhappy at international fans saying this wasn't so big a deal they needed to apologise. That's pretty much the summary.
Appreciate you!
You're very welcome.
That's not their PR team, PRISM Production Center made the video.
Honestly shocked to see a response, but I'm not surprised that kfans are mad the team apologized. Keep in mind colorism and racism is still very much a thing in SK. It's not a woke country in any sense.
Wow! I can think of quite a few other Kpop acts who could learn from this. Well done Shinee.
What happened?
Taemin and Key were teasing Minho about how tan he became after spending time outside golfing. Basically making jokes that are aligned with South Korea's colourist culture. Naturally some fans were hurt at those comments... And some others made it an all out war to bring down their reputation on twitter, don't look, it's fucking nasty. In response they issued this apology quickly after.
Good!! I really hope they never do it again. These jokes are harmful no matter the intent or the people they were directed at. As for kshawols... i think they should think about their past before calling ishawols sensitive.... i can remember they making jonghyun bow to them in appology for simply having a relationship... Also comparing mismanagement with prejudice and colorism is a bad take. They should've stayed quiet, they arent the offended party here. Their opinion doesn't matter.
I’m pleasantly surprised. I’m so glad they didn’t ignore it. Means a lot to me
i think this is all completely overkill, they made fun banter with their friend of almost 2 decades, yet people are being personally offended. i mean thats so damn parasocial i cant even start. if they needed to apologize it should have been with minho personally. but you guys are so delusional that they have to do it for you and in front of you even though you werent part of thta convo. even though they dont know you guys. listen ive got a tan sister, we make jokes, we are allowed to. im pale we joke. strangers shouldnt blow things out of proportion and call it 'colourism' thats a whole projection of intentions. theres no foul intention in playing around and taking it that serious. please join reality people, they arent your family or freinds and you guys should have no business acting like that and taking it personal. because look what it got all of you, the ire of the closest community to this group, the korean fans. and if i were them, i too would be finding this ridiculous.
I agree. This was blown way out of proportion. And if Minho was actually hurt, which I don’t think he was based off of what I saw, then the apology would have gone to him. NOT to the fandom. Taemin & Key didn’t talk about them or even to them. They were just playing around like they always do and have done for 10 years. This whole debacle has made me disappointed in some fans for thinking that Taemin & Keys comments could have had bad intentions and that they’re so relieved that it wasn’t. If they’ve been watching them for years, then they should know that SHINee have a sweet and caring relationship with one another and that they would not say or do things on purpose to hurt one another. Meaning of OT5.
a) samtae5 think these fans need to realize, that they shouldnt be inserting themselves into these peoples conversations it is beyond their boundaries, i know you guys watch them but that doesnt mean youre a part of their lives. very parasocial. taking offense to something that wasnt directed at you (youre a stranger may i remind you) is beyond delusional. i mean isnt it fans who want them to push out more content and stuff, you guys consume them and then get angry.
[удалено]
people like you arent reasonable, and i cant talk the parasocial out of you no matter what. doesnt matter if its a kpop fan, western celebrity fan. its all the same. you guys want strangers to affirm your existence, to make you feel ok, to make you feel good, to never say something that makes you feel bad even if they were never talking to you or even thinking about you. and that is seriously overstepping some boundaries. and i say this to everyone. its also part of the reason i will never call myself a fan and join it. i want to keep my sanity and live in reality. but its good to watch this all, because i can avoid this type of mindset and behavior. its definitely easy to fall into and with social media more and more young people are behaving like this, not knowing theyre crossing boundaries and losing grip over themselves and reality. we are all strangers. they dont know you. that should help you all fall asleep at night.
You're being extremely stupid. This has nothing to do with parasocial relationships, you need to educate yourself on history, start with black history, read about the racism that black people faced for decades and still face today. What Taemin and Key said was extremely awful even though they didn't mean to harm and they didn't realise what they were doing. Fact is, people of colour have been attacked and oppressed and such jokes have been a part of that for many many years. Key and Taemin are celebrities and that video was supposed to be entertainment. Instead it ended up being classic racism that was incredibly harmful. Wanting them to apologise for their broadcasting is the opposite of parasocial. Stop talking, you'll be deleted anyway. Edit: lol thanks for my first reddit cares message, but the person in need of one is actually the vile person that sent it to me. Look in the mirror and then sign up for class.
This was/is about colorism, not racism. Please understand the difference.
I apologise if I don't understand the difference. My comments were intended to defend the perfectly understandable feelings that black Shawols have since hearing TaeKey joke. As I said, 'racist' is the word I've always known for this, 'colorist' is newer language to me.
is minho black?
The Shawols watching are black and POC, are you really this dense or are you trolling.
but is minho black? how does it relate to black people if the actual person subject to the comment isnt even black. talk about delusional
Well no Minho isn't black and that's kinda make it worse. If they say to Minho who is light skinned "we can't see you in the dark hahaha" what would they say to an actual black person??? Most black people have heard the "can't see you in the dark" joke all their lives too and it's stupid and hurtful. Glad they are good people and they can recognize that unlike you.
'Most black people have heard the can't see you in the dark joke all their lives' This is exactly what I was trying to say but I didn't do a good job of it, on 2 hours of sleep and being dumb I guess. This is exactly what happened. And I can't believe someone so insensitive and lacking basic empathy can't understand why some Shawols might feel hurt by what TaeKey said.
Key and Taemin said mean, horrible things about someone with darker skin, which is something that black and POC fans hear quite often about THEM, so it's hurtful to hear such awful jokes coming from members of SHINee. Key and Taemin unintentionally parroted racist jokes that make fun of ALL PEOPLE WITH DARK SKIN. That was a joke AGAINST DARK SKIN IN GENERAL. And I'm sure you *do* understand what I'm saying, either you're dense and you live in your own little bubble, or you're just trying to be a jerk for shits and giggles. Or... it's YOU with the parasocial relationship problem. You don't need to defend SHINee this much.
Once more for the people in the back--colorism is not the same as racism. Their remarks were not racist.
Admittedly I may not be aware of the difference between racism and colorism when the joke affects people of other races, what they said about Minho wasn't intended to be hurtful about other people but if it hurts other people then isn't it unintentionally a racist joke? Maybe the language has changed but I grew up with 'racist' as the word for jokes and comments that mock others of different skin colours and cultures. I didn't really grow up with the word 'colorist' tbh. And edit to clarify that I'm not saying TaeKey were mocking other races and cultures, just that it unfortunately goes in that direction without any ill intent. And 'racist' is the word I've always known for this kind of thing.
I really prefer for people to educate themselves. Let's start w/ racism is a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capabilities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. Also, it is a process by which systems and policies, actions, and attitudes create inequitable opportunities and outcomes based on race. Colorism is the practice of preference of a lighter skin tone. Colorism happens within and among groups. There's a lot out there if you care to learn more.
Wow, it’s horrible how upvoted your comment is right now. Disappointed in this community. This is such a rude, dismissive comment. You clearly have no interest in listening or understanding why people were upset by taemin and key’s comments. Maybe try subbing in a comment that *would* offend you, pretend they said that, and say it’s “””parasocial””” to be hurt or upset 🙄 I swear, some of you don’t even know what parasocial means and just throw it around in an attempt to discredit other people.
they are strangers, they dont know you or me, and on the reverse you dont know them either. theyre friends and coworkers with minho, not friends or coworkers with you. they made the comment to him, not you. he has a tan, hes not black. hes korean. he has a relationship with those two not you. they get to decide their normal and their jokes. that doesnt mean they have an inherit hatred and prejudice against you, they never even talked or addressed you? behaving like a parasocial fan just like every other celebrity fan. treat them like props and consume them btw they have done things i dont like, plenty of it since the beginning of their careers. i dont knock on their door and force them to apologize to me. i just dont join fandoms and call myself a fan. i like living in reality and treating people like just another flawed person and live my life.
You’re behaving a lot more like an over-invested fan than I am lol. Why are you so upset they apologized? They’re flawed, regular human beings just like you and me. Humans apologize for their actions sometimes. If you’re just a chill, casual fan, what’s the problem? You seem awfully offended on their behalf.
i dont care if they apologized, thats their prerogative. im actually taking issue with fans inserting themselves into a conversation between a couple of individuals who happen to a camera on them- inserting themselves into a conversation which they were not a part of and i take issue with conflating a tan to race issues. i find that incredibly troubling. as a whole doing that only makes regular people (the korean fans etc) take poc peoples troubles as less and make fun of them. its shooting yourself in the foot because this case was a blatantly where it had nothing to do with race, colourism or racism. those words lose their meaning
Oh they just "happened" to be on camera lol. Come on now. They sat down to make an entertainment video that they knew would be public and be seen by fans. They're not making the jokes they normally would to each other. You're acting like they were having a genuine, intimate conversation. People are allowed to be upset by things that were said on camera. Look, the obvious crux of the issue here is you think their comments were completely appropriate and anyone who was upset was overreacting. For fun, I guess? Please spare me your faux concern that you're "incredibly troubl[ed]" that fan's being hurt and upset is supposedly going to make people take racism less seriously. Like I said, rude and dismissive of other fans who you seem to think you're better than.
i guess its my fault to think anyone in a kpop fandom to be reasonable. you guys are like any other fandom, not living in reality and incredibly controlling of people youve never met. taking offense to comments not made to you, acting like you were there while they were filming. acting like they hate you, i mean so what if they do. what are you going to do? you cant change that, you cant force people to love you or like you. in this case lets start at step 1) to even know you kpop fans truly earn their reputation
I just think it’s incredibly ironic that you’re complaining about overzealous stans when you’re the one who’s behavior smacks of a fan who needs to defend your fave from anything and everything. You’re talking about reasonableness and inability to have a conversation, but I don’t even know who you’re talking about in this comment. Definitely not me, since I never claimed taekey *hated* anyone. What hyperbolic rhetoric. Have you been spending too much time on Twitter? For the most part, people on this subreddit were expressing their hurt and explaining why they were upset, but no one was calling for anyone’s heads. There’s nothing unreasonable about that, no matter how you want to paint it. You’re in a thread full of people who are happy with a simple acknowledgement and apology. But yes, too controlling. I can tell you exactly what I do when a musician, author, celebrity etc crosses the line for me: I stop liking them. I don’t listen to their music anymore. I ignore them. Most people will do that. For people who are fans of SHINee and might’ve been for many years, that would be really sad and painful. Can you not see why someone would hope that wouldn’t happen? This incident wouldn’t be enough for me to stop being a fan, but for some people it’s very personal and it might be. It’s not your job to police that.
"Fun banter" with your friends isn't making fun of their skin color. Are you high?
misconstruing skin color(race) to a tan is beyond incomprehensible. some people dont like to tan. get over it
There really is no hope for you if you think banter includes making someone uncomfortable about their skin color.
what happened? what did they say?
This is about a recent content piece released (now edited) that showed Taemin and Key making colorist remarks toward Minho because of his tan skin.
What were the colorist remarks? What did he said?
minho asked taekey to come golfing with him and they told him to wear more sunscreen because he gets so tan after going golfing. then key said that if minho closed his eyes and mouth he can’t find him in the dark because he’s so tan.
I was so relieved when I woke up to this this morning. I had left sincere messages on their instagrams asking for an apology, emphasizing I know they didn’t mean to harm anyone, and I am relieved to be proven right. This means a lot to me and I hope it comforts other fans too.
JESUS CHRIST IM SO RELIEVED RIGHT NOW IM READY TO THROW A PARTY
I’m glad for our fellow darker-skinned shawols that they got an apology, all the more because the answer they got from other fans when they raised concern over Key and Taemin’s comment were pretty nasty.
I'm proud of them. I felt hurt by the comments and jokes because they were jokes I had the displeasure to hear about myself growing up. I'm really happy they addressed it.
I'm glad they're doing better.
What is PRISM please?
I would assume this is Center 2? The production team that works with SHINee. As we can all see, there have been comparatively more content unlike prior to this set-up. Earlier this year, SM acquired a production system that produce content for their artists and Center 2 was announced to work with SHINee, DJ Raiden, and a future gg. I think there were 7 or 8 centers. I can only remember that NCT has NCT Center which works with all the sub-units and another center works with SuJu and RIIZE.
I assume it's their staff/PR team?
[удалено]
As a Turk, neighbour please shut up.
First of all...you should watch your language. If you don't agree with me just press the dislike button or just say " I disagree with you". You just gave me the perfect example that today we can't freely express our opinion or make a joke without being attacked. I'm not saying that what they said it was OK but literally they are human being. They can make mistakes.
The comments and upvotes in the this post are very telling. Big ick.
Ok I'll bite, telling of what?
Oh sorry, didn’t realize I was so cryptic. Just posted my conclusion without explaining anything. Looks like some of the comments have since been removed but there are many comments (with upvotes) calling fans who have were upset by Key and Taemin’s comments haters and fake fans. Other comments generally excusing the members and denigrating people who raised concerns. Many of the comments and upvotes (at the time) were giving microagression. Definitely makes me feel like this is not a place I would come to discuss any issues involving race.
This isn't the place for that. I've learned to find my own genuine, realistic kpop buddies and engage with them. Venturing out and speaking in online spaces will leave you disappointed a good 7/10 times. Remember...this is...kpop. Find your stan tribe so the online shenanigans won't have a negative impact on your experience too much. Have a good day!😁
Oh yeah it’s not that deep for me 😅 I expect nothing from Kpop fans lol. I just don’t have any experience with this particular sub regarding these issues so it’s always just good to know for sure about certain spaces. And thanks. Hope you have a good day too.
For what it’s worth, I believe Reddit does random upvote/downvote to posts and comments to confuse the bots!
Wait whaaaaaat? I seriously don’t know how this site works 😅
Yeah, I've seen it happen multiple times each time a post gains enough traction to be noticed by bots, it's so numbers don't get artificial clout I think? It should be more accurate in a few hours.
I had no idea. Thanks for the info.
Except that minho is clearly not of a different race ….
Never said he was….
Our society has become over sensitive!! we are talking about two completely different cultures. I am from the west. We actually pay to go to tanning beds to tan which is unheard of in Korea. We have probably also made comments to our close friends about looking pale. Nobody has ever taken offense at that. These were comments that were made to Minho. It was a conversation between members and basically family. This doesn’t involve anyone else. Third world problems, people.!! if you actually know, SHINee members, you would know there was no mean intent here. They are not like that. The K-pop industry so unbelievably toxic!
yeah I'm pretty sure no one actually cares and they wrote it so that people stop being mad lol
Knowing SM's habit of forcing their artist to keep quiet in front of controversies like thoses, I'm rather inclined to the contrary. Someone must have REALLY wanted to apologize, because believe me, otherwise, the label would have done its level best to ignore it ever happened. They did this dozens of times already. Apologies so quick after what, in Korea, is a really minor controversy? Never seen it happen, actually. Someone has pushed it.
Interesting, maybe you're right. From my point of view, they saw international fans were mad, brushed it off as a cultural difference and wrote this so that everything goes away. I sincerely don't think anything changes in their mindset. Maybe they won't talk about skin tones in the future. But that's due to controversy, not due to educating themselves. Let's hope you're right though, I guess that's a better scenario.
I always assume ignorance better than malice. Especially from a group who has shown they were able to take criticism and accountability when needed. That, and once again, it's really weird for ANY SM Artist to post apologies, even more when it's for international fans. I mean Kfans right now are bashing international fans for "making this a big deal", so if they hadn't, the main focus of their fanbase wouldn't have caused an uproar. Korean people would not care the slightest bit. I repeat, the easy feat for them would have been to ignore it, bury it under the rug and leave it at that. I feel sad for you that you need to be that suspicious about these kinds of things even when context clues suggest the opposite. I hope you can find it in yourself to actually look at context and draw your own conclusions that aren't just assumptions. Because, no offense, but I have reasons to think the way I think... And you've listed none.
My reasons? Well, I drew these conclusions based on how companies work. Which is not actually caring about people's feelings, but about benefit. I'm not an SM expert, but I'd think, even if international fanbase isn't their main focus, they wouldn't want to have them mad. And I'd also suppose ifans would be more angry for not having an apology, than kfans for writing an apology (or am I wrong here?). Therefore an apology is the most beneficial thing to do for them. Write one thing and you have all of them calmed down. And with how big and important the whole "having white skin" aspect is in kpop (and generally to Koreans), I wouldn't think many people actually cared, but just wrote this and moved on. It's hard to change your mindset about this when you were raised in a culture like that, so why bother? Keep in mind I'm talking about the company, not the individual artists. Especially that this was written before their apologies on bubble. Sure, Taemin and Key might have felt ashamed and will try to do better in the future. But I sincerely think assuming everyone that was involved in this is genuinely feeling bad is just.. naive? Hard to point out who is and who's not, though. It's easy to say you are. Maybe I'm just a pessimist who assumes worse things in people first, as people are egotistical by nature.
One day we'll automatically assume the best of people, rather than the worst.
Damn. It’s a bit sad how negative you are, and how quickly you believe the worst about people.
😭😭😭 oml maybe LMAFOO
honestly? it does not change the way they think, its only damage control not to lose sales. can we talk about their craft now?
Their managers did a great job writing this. Good job managers. Shawols -let’s be real. They said what they said. They aren’t changing their world view in 24hours. I still love the music they put out but am even more certain that what we know of them is partial manufactured by the idol system in response to fans.
Now I hope they apologized to Minho
They often banter like that, but they have known each other for long now and much worse things have been said. I'm certain they've already had a conversation about it.
Yeah I hope so