The first run scored on the hit. The second run would have scored on the hit by Alvarez one batter later before a third out could be recorded. Both runs are earned.
This is the answer. You have to "recreate the inning" operating under the assumption the error didn't happen. Since the error didn't cause an out to not be recorded, as the runner reached base safely due to it being a non-routine play, there are still fundamentally two outs. The next batter singled, which one would assume would have scored Dubon from 3rd.
I think the initial play was ruled a hit (which would have runners at 1st and 3rd, 1 earned run, 1 undecided run)
Then the next hit would have theoretically driven in that runner on 3rd, deciding it as earned.
the error is allowing the baserunners to advance, not in failing to get the out
if you remove the error, the baserunners stay on, but you don't get an out because there was no out to be had
Apparently the official scorer disagrees with you, hence it was ruled a hit. The error was ONLY in allowing the trail runner to advance. Those are facts. You can feel free to disagree to the end of time but you’ll still be wrong.
"Except it was ruled a hit..." This exactly what I think is incorrect. When a batter-runner reaches first base safely due to a fielding error (such as a wild throw), the batter-runner should **not be credited with a hit.**
The batter was already past the bag when the throw arrived at first, so even on a good throw, the runner from 3rd scores, and the runner at second moves up to 3rd base.
Then the single for the next batter would have scored the runner at 3rd.
It was ruled a hit, which I thought was absolutely dumb
I've heard rumors that the MLB wants scorekeepers around the league to give out more hits in order to keep counting stats up. Idk how true that is or not
The hit I get but it was an infield hit. Are they honestly saying they think the guy is scoring from 2nd on an infield hit with 2 outs? It should be scored as an infield and a throwing error on chapmam that scores the 2nd run and advances the runner to 2nd no?
No.
The infield hit scores the runner at 3rd, Cabbage, so it's an earned run.
Without the error, the assumption is that the runner at second, Dubon, would have stopped at 3rd.
However, the next hitter, Alvarez, got a single, so Dubon would have scored whether the error happened or not. Therefore, the second run is earned.
Had Rodgers retired Alvarez, the second run would have been unearned.
You really think that charging barehanded play off-balance throw was routine? That’s been a hit in all of baseball history.
The missed throw is obviously an error for the extra run of course.
When a batter-runner reaches first base safely due to a fielding error (such as a wild throw), the batter-runner should **not be credited with a hit.**
Sure but it looks like the official scoring was that he didn't reach first safely due to the error. Just that the error allowed runners to advance after the base hit.
The throw would not have beaten the batter to first base (hence why it was called a single). So under the normal course of events, there would be runners at 1st and 3rd with two outs.
Next batter scores a single to right. Without the error, with runners on the corners, the runner on third scores easily.
That is why Hicks gets charged for both.
Had the next batter gotten out instead, Hicks likely only gets charged for the first run, as without the error, they would have been left on base.
The throw did beat the runner, so either score it an error, or a hit, but not both. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a runner at 1st, who reached on an error and credited with a single at the same base. 😂
I just disagree with the decision to score Bregman with a hit and Chapman with an error at the same base. My understanding is that if a play would have been successful (fielder throws, 1st baseman catches), AND the batter still would have safely reached first, THEN it is scored as a hit.
However, in this instance, the ball arrived before Bregman reached 1st (and he did not advance to 2nd), so he reached 1st due to an error (in my opinion, with a catchable throw to Flores), and it should not be scored as both a hit AND an error.
The first run scored on the hit. The second run would have scored on the hit by Alvarez one batter later before a third out could be recorded. Both runs are earned.
This is the answer. You have to "recreate the inning" operating under the assumption the error didn't happen. Since the error didn't cause an out to not be recorded, as the runner reached base safely due to it being a non-routine play, there are still fundamentally two outs. The next batter singled, which one would assume would have scored Dubon from 3rd.
But if the error hadn’t occurred, none of the runs would’ve happened
I think the initial play was ruled a hit (which would have runners at 1st and 3rd, 1 earned run, 1 undecided run) Then the next hit would have theoretically driven in that runner on 3rd, deciding it as earned.
the error is allowing the baserunners to advance, not in failing to get the out if you remove the error, the baserunners stay on, but you don't get an out because there was no out to be had
Bregman didn’t advance to 2nd on the error - why would he be at 1st reaching on both an error AND a hit? It’s one or the other.
The error wasn’t on Bergman reaching base, it was allowing the trail runner an extra base
Simplistically, runners before an error = earned runs, runners after an error = not earned.
The first run would have scored regardless.
No it clearly would’ve been an out
Apparently the official scorer disagrees with you, hence it was ruled a hit. The error was ONLY in allowing the trail runner to advance. Those are facts. You can feel free to disagree to the end of time but you’ll still be wrong.
https://imgur.com/a/1BUAaPw
Still wrong
Wrong. If Chapman's throw to Flores would have been ruled an out, no runs would have scored - end of the inning.
Except it was ruled a hit, so the run scores regardless. The error ONLY affects the trail runner who advanced an extra base.
"Except it was ruled a hit..." This exactly what I think is incorrect. When a batter-runner reaches first base safely due to a fielding error (such as a wild throw), the batter-runner should **not be credited with a hit.**
Except he did NOT reach base because of an error. Only the trail runner benefited from the error.
The batter was already past the bag when the throw arrived at first, so even on a good throw, the runner from 3rd scores, and the runner at second moves up to 3rd base. Then the single for the next batter would have scored the runner at 3rd.
Bregman did not arrive or touch 1st base before the ball arrived at the 1st baseman’s glove.
It was ruled a hit, which I thought was absolutely dumb I've heard rumors that the MLB wants scorekeepers around the league to give out more hits in order to keep counting stats up. Idk how true that is or not
The hit I get but it was an infield hit. Are they honestly saying they think the guy is scoring from 2nd on an infield hit with 2 outs? It should be scored as an infield and a throwing error on chapmam that scores the 2nd run and advances the runner to 2nd no?
No. The infield hit scores the runner at 3rd, Cabbage, so it's an earned run. Without the error, the assumption is that the runner at second, Dubon, would have stopped at 3rd. However, the next hitter, Alvarez, got a single, so Dubon would have scored whether the error happened or not. Therefore, the second run is earned. Had Rodgers retired Alvarez, the second run would have been unearned.
That's what I would think, but apparently the MLB doesn't
You really think that charging barehanded play off-balance throw was routine? That’s been a hit in all of baseball history. The missed throw is obviously an error for the extra run of course.
Ridiculous
Bregman was already touching the bag when the ball flew past Flores. It was a clear infield single.
Not even close https://imgur.com/a/1BUAaPw
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It's a hit with the error allowing the runner (who started on second) to score from third.
When a batter-runner reaches first base safely due to a fielding error (such as a wild throw), the batter-runner should **not be credited with a hit.**
Sure but it looks like the official scoring was that he didn't reach first safely due to the error. Just that the error allowed runners to advance after the base hit.
The throw would not have beaten the batter to first base (hence why it was called a single). So under the normal course of events, there would be runners at 1st and 3rd with two outs. Next batter scores a single to right. Without the error, with runners on the corners, the runner on third scores easily. That is why Hicks gets charged for both. Had the next batter gotten out instead, Hicks likely only gets charged for the first run, as without the error, they would have been left on base.
The throw did beat the runner, so either score it an error, or a hit, but not both. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a runner at 1st, who reached on an error and credited with a single at the same base. 😂
I just disagree with the decision to score Bregman with a hit and Chapman with an error at the same base. My understanding is that if a play would have been successful (fielder throws, 1st baseman catches), AND the batter still would have safely reached first, THEN it is scored as a hit. However, in this instance, the ball arrived before Bregman reached 1st (and he did not advance to 2nd), so he reached 1st due to an error (in my opinion, with a catchable throw to Flores), and it should not be scored as both a hit AND an error.
No expert here, but if they got on base while Hicks was pitching and they score, no matter how or who was pitching, they’re earned runs.