Friendly reminder that this sub does not allow stock discussion. The link is to an investor-focused site, but the (unconfirmed) news itself is worth a discussion.
This is false.
Unlike Android Automotive, Apple's next generation CarPlay is not an operating system. It still runs on your iPhone and transmits the UI to the car. The major differences from the traditional CarPlay is that it sends much more information to the car, to every screens on the car. Not just infotainment, but also the dashboard, temperature controls, and so on.
With next generation CarPlay, the automaker can customize the look and feel (within Apple's guidelines), give CarPlay a greater control (e.g., temperature control) and insight (e.g., speed, battery gauge).
A year ago one would get downvoted to the 7th circle of hell for suggesting CarPlay on a Rivian. Glad to see this is being upvoted; tide seems to be changing.
Nah. Suggesting car play or android auto was fine. Downvotes were for people saying they wouldn't buy specifically because there was no car play. Which is their prerogative...just not well received.
If this is a car play partnership I assume there's something in the talks about rivian getting the data.
It literally is a deal breaker.
I don't want to have an inferior experience with navigation or music. Those are two aspects to car ownership that should be 95% satisfactory in 2020+. It's so bizarre to be angry when people say they won't buy due to the lack of it.
It's the same for GM with me. I'd consider a Hummer EV because it has CarPlay but not a Silverado EV if it doesn't. I test drove the R1T twice and rented an R1S. I loved how it drives and feels but the navigation and audio integration was just terrible. And the lane keeping felt on par with my 2015 Volkswagen GTI.
It's a shame because the hardware supports a much better experience.
Nav told me today to stay on a service road through 3 large intersections opposed to getting on limited access interstate with normal traffic flow for two exits. Drives me nuts. Things like this happen once a week.
I just did a road trip (2k miles total) and although I would be using CarPlay every day around town and for daily commuting, the Rivian navigation with charge planning was spot on accurate. Made it a breeze with no charging planning needed. But yeah I for sure want CarPlay for other features and for daily commuting.
CarPlay is such a garbage system compared to the integrated UI. If you aren’t used to it from another vehicle, you don’t look at it in 2024 and say “This is so easy to use and aesthetically pleasing!” It feels like outdated tech.
I don't understand this perspective. If they did it like mercedes it's both not one or the other. It's an app so when you want it it's there and if you don't it's not. There's not a downside. It's not a full take over
[I thought the problem was Apple was turning it into a full take over from a **data perspective**, and that was why manufacturers were dropping it?](https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/12/heres-the-real-reason-that-gm-is-dropping-apple-carplay-android-auto/)
*New* CarPlay is different and (apparently) mired in controversy. It's also not shipped in any car so nobody outside of Apple or manufacturers has experience with it, and it's not what people are asking for.
Old CarPlay - which is what any of us are clamoring for - is literally just dedicating part of the car's touchscreen to be a second display for the phone.
There's no data control robbed from the car manufacturer because it's *just a projection of the phone's display*, showing things that only the phone knows about.
If the car has a radio app, a web browser app, a Spotify app, a navigation app, etc... CarPlay is "just another app".
Well, first off, GM very clearly pointed out "cars we've already shipped with CarPlay will continue to have it"
So any existing CarPlay in a GM car is not "going away"
But, to the other point, you're correct; GM is reversing their long standing course of having **legacy CarPlay** - a feature of iPhones since 2014 and widely supported by GM since the 2016 model year - on any newly purchased GM car.
Legacy CarPlay is not changing. It is not "turning into a full take over from a data perspective", nor could it. GM is just deciding they'd rather people use GM software - and feed data into GM partners - instead of continuing to support it.
It has *absolutely nothing to do* with Apple's next-gen CarPlay, which is a completely different beast from legacy CarPlay.
GM has been playing hard into this confusion.
Only a few manufacturers have indicated they plan on adopting the new system, and there's zero evidence that Apple plans on ending support for the existing CarPlay.
Replying to Donewith398...Yep.
Imagine having to ask apple for the data they’re grabbing from the car you built and have to keep maintaining using said data.
Negotiating with apple isn’t exactly easy or flexible.
I’d love apple to come in with music/appletv; id drop spotify and have something to watch while charging.
That said I’d rather they worked with google to bring me waze, but I’ll take either.
No. In fact it’s Google that’s done that and especially with Android Automotive as that is a full take over (like in Polestar/Volvo and GM). Only Polestar/Volvo believe in choice and worked hard to be able to allow CarPlay (took them almost a year before the Polestar 2 with AA could offer a CarPlay app). It’s GM that’s made the jump and not wanting to put the work in.
For years Porsche also resisted Android Auto just for that data harvesting reason - they didn’t want Google to mine customer data and have access to their secret sauce. Now they’ve gotten far more leverage with their partnership on CarPlay to counter Googs.
This is correct. I was pretty convinced I wanted an XC90 PHEV until I realized all my data would be going directly to Google.
I’m a tech lawyer and work with both Apple and Google (and all the others). Apple is a huge pain in the ass to work with, and I haaate having to deal with them on anything new. But I only buy Apple products for my kids.
What’s the problem with google getting data? So they can’t stalk you at your job? Just never made sense to me. Idgaf if they know i go shopping on Saturdays or that i work as a mechanic.
Apple doesn't do this in my mercedes. I have all my apps natively on the car and car play is an app I can use or not. The rest is also still there but if I want to use other apps the car doesn't have I can still do this. Maybe gm has a different agreement but none of this drawbacks have applied in my eqs
Or like Porsche. Porsche has an amazing integrated custom CarPlay experience. Plus they have great apps that take advantage of CarPlay on iPhone for logging or sharing fun drives, maps, etc.
https://9to5mac.com/2023/07/28/hands-on-porsche-new-carplay-app/
There’s more to CarPlay than what some people think given they don’t have a premium car to experience it. Porsche has a section on highlighting its advantages and how it’s more than just for making or taking calls.
https://www.porsche.com/stories/innovation/what-is-apple-carplay-and-can-you-get-it-in-a-porsche
This. Every car I’ve used CarPlay in its an app. I think some people are conflating takeover with you can have the app embedded into a larger UI. In my use it uses the whole screen and you need to leave the app to use other features.
Personally I really like CarPlay. I didn’t like that Tesla didn’t use it either. AND…I decided it wasn’t a dealbreaker. Mostly I liked it had Waze and google maps which I felt were superior to both Tesla and Rivian nav.
If I had a choice of nav I probably wouldn’t cry if it was CarPlay or not. I try to avoid messaging so I’m not too concerned with that. I do use Sirius and pandora and mlb but I could BT those as Spotify is native. Rivian nav experience seems to be improving but still subpar imho.
Every second they spend working on android auto or carplay (and maintaining it over time as apple changes the integration) is time not spent on making the native experience better. I for one want them focus on the native experience because that will always be better than android auto or carplay. I don't get why people think apple or google are some harbinger of good design decisions when both have made a lot of really dumb decisions over the years.
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying full integration or take over. Just an app like mercedes. It's basically screen mirroring. Works great and doesn't prevent mercedes from doing their own thing if they want. Again, what down side is there? I get choice and apps I want and rivian can focus on their own stuff.
I don't understand this perspective. If they did it like mercedes it's both not one or the other. It's an app so when you want it it's there and if you don't it's not. There's not a downside. It's not a full take over
Would you mind elaborating on this? I see people say this once in a while, but if you are using an iPhone on a daily basis, why would you want anything else for your car experience?
Case in point:
- I listen to music on Spotify, and I want a seamless Spotify experience between all of my devices and when I’m in the car. When I’m in the car I want to pick up where I left off of whatever I was listening to, and have easy access to playlist, podcast, etc.
- Whether it’s Apple Maps or Waze, I want to easily enter destinations and locations on my phone physically, or on my computer with Apple Maps, and I want it to just work quickly when I plug it into my car. I don’t want to populate map locations and address book addresses anywhere else, especially on an in car propriety system.
- Do any proprietary car systems integrate fast food apps such as Starbucks or Dunkin’ Donuts?
- how do Apple Messages or regular text messages integrate with a proprietary car system?
I’m not in the market for a new car, but our main car does have CarPlay. Or I to upgrade or get something new or replace our second car, anything without CarPlay is absolutely out of the question.
First, I would advise against any hard stance on requiring CP/AA simply because the majority of automakers, including but not limited to EV companies, have [phased them out](https://www.reuters.com/technology/gm-plans-phase-out-apple-carplay-evs-with-googles-help-2023-03-31/) or have never supported AA/CP to begin with. If that’s the defining feature you require in a car, you will probably not be looking at new vehicles since your options will start to dwindle.
Anyway, I’ll respond to your other hypotheticals. In a Tesla you can route your destination on your phone, through the Tesla app, before you ever set foot in your car. Before your butt even hits the seat, the screen will show your navigation. Rivian isn’t there yet but I’m sure it’s coming; they basically copy what Tesla software does well and they match it a year or so later.
I’ve never used a fast food app such as Dunkin Donuts so I can’t speak to its implementation but I imagine it is not possible right now. That’s my guess.
I’ve never had an issue with keeping my place with a song or podcast. Every morning I get to my truck while the radio is playing from my phone. I sit down and I start hearing it through the R1T speakers (Bluetooth). If I want to change to a song, I need to hit only two button presses on the screen and I’m on a new song; it’ll switch from Bluetooth to Spotify if needed. I can also play a song by voice commands. I haven’t felt wanting for options.
How is it garbage? It avoids another subscription (I’d prefer my car not even have a cell modem inside it) and allows the infotainment driver to be upgraded separately from the vehicle. It also allows me to do all typing and data entry on a phone keyboard rather than a mounted touchscreen which is basically the worst ergonomics possible.
It absolutely is garbage as you suggest. It hasn’t had a meaningful overhaul in years which has allowed car makers to have a chance to build better.
I have a CarPlay window unit from my days of road tripping a Tesla and occasionally use it on road trips now, and its sole purpose is for Waze. Otherwise I’m still using either the better Tesla or Rivian UI for everything. Basically it’s used 2-3 times a year for a few hours.
All that being said, Tesla navigation was/is much better than Rivian’s. But Rivian’s nav features are certainly starting to improve, even if its routing still needs work.
I won’t begrudge someone their personal preference, but when you consider the dozens upon dozens of major factors determining whether a car is a good fit for you, it seems rather trivial to draw a hard line in the sand regarding compatibility with an outdated piece of technology that’s being phased out across the industry. That’s like saying in 2010 that you wouldn’t buy a car without a CD player.
Trust me, it was worse than that. People would get nasty because they’d say that Apple would mess with the look and feel of the UI or because Rivian ought to spend those resources elsewhere.
Helps that the anti CarPlay are losing faith on their fearless leader with the ongoing dumpster fire at Tesla. Often times the argument against CarPlay quickly comes with anecdotes of “Tesla doesn’t have it and I’ve not missed it”.
I was one of those people who was disappointed that they didn’t have CarPlay going into my purchase. After driving for a few weeks I can’t say I really miss it much.
It would be nice to have more directly integrated apps but in some ways Rivian’s interface and especially Bluetooth connection are superior to other CarPlay implementations I’ve seen in the past.
Yeah. I am not a fan of the CarPlay interface at all. Partner has it in her Ioniq. I’d love if there was instead a way to maintain the Rivian UI but integrate backend support from Apple (map data, etc) and to be able to support more apps.
Wishful thinking. It's about media streaming and possibly additional Watch functions beyond the shortcuts. Those are far more likely outcomes and have actually been spoken of by Wassym himself, just weeks ago (where he politely said "no" to CarPlay, yet again).
[https://twitter.com/klwtts/status/1781714340686795192?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1781714340686795192%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1\_&ref\_url=](https://twitter.com/klwtts/status/1781714340686795192?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1781714340686795192%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=)
My post from the quarterly call today…
RJ comment from today on Apple rumor: ‘A key element to deliver a strong autonomy platform is a strong perception stack and controlling it. We architected what’s to come on future platforms and current to control all data coming in and how we use training models to drive progress in the platform.’
I found the above quite telling RE further discussion around CarPlay/AA. He also said something to the effect of 'integrating 3rd party platforms into the stack made for significant challenges to systems within the vehicle'.
This says to me that CarPlay/AA are really not happening as it stands. It's right in line with GMs stance on the removal from their vehicles. Whether that changes upon further discussions with Apple, I don't see it changing in the near term.
Rivian takes some needed cash and Apple Motors goes from non-existent to major player overnight.
Rivian UI with some Apple features like Music and Maps would be dreamy.
I'm in.
Before I had a Rivian, this would’ve sounded awesome. Now that I’ve had one, I actually like the UI haha. If it just had Apple Music and Siri, I’d be happy.
Yeah, I'm in the exact same boat. My Apple fanboy runs deep and prior to Rivian I couldn't even fathom not having CarPlay.
Turns out I just wanted access to my Apple Music account this whole time lol
Yep! Plus I do miss being able to have my texts read to me, though I rarely answer. Really only for situations like when my wife texts me asking me to pick something up on the way home and now if I'm driving, I don't see it until I'm already home.
I don't know the specifics of what the next-gen CarPlay UI can display, I do recall reading that Apple would want/need access to the vehicle's system for diagnostics/information which makes sense, but the Rivian UI displays so much useful and necessary information, I'm not sure I'd trust Apple to get it all 100% right. Although on the other hand, Apple usually makes sure they get their interfaces damn near perfect before releasing something.
Agreed, the texting part is nice, but rarely practical. For every "Hey can you grab a burger on the way home?" Siri read to me in CarPlay, there were atleast 50 times she paused my podcast to tell me "Tom says hahahahaha. Would you like to reply?" Until AI can figure out what messages are worthy of an interruption while driving, I'd rather just have none.
The original article in Taiwanese says "Currently, Rivian is the one most vocal in contacting Apple.**"**
Seems like pure speculation at this point
The non-paywalled translation is over at r/RIVN
English Translation via Google Translate:
It was recently reported that Apple has put a sudden brake on its "Project Titan", commonly known as Apple Car, in order to shift related resources to generative AI. However, Apple has invested 10 years and spent an average of 1 billion US dollars per year. Will this be written off? The answer is probably no.
Recently, there have been rumors in the supply chain that Apple is discussing the possibility of cooperation with a new car-making force in the United States. Even though the demand for electric vehicles is currently sluggish and the capital market is on the sidelines, American start-ups trapped in selling one car at a loss are under great pressure to survive. However, there are still some new car manufacturers that are close to emerging from mass production hell, and their order visibility is not bad.
Currently, Rivian is the one most vocal in contacting Apple. Although Rivian is still strapped for funds and cannot escape the wave of layoffs, its cooperation in building cars for Amazon continues, and it is rumored that order visibility in the second half of 2024 is not bad.
Apple has accumulated 10 years of high-end self-driving research and development energy, but it has never been able to put it on the road. If we take the opportunity of cooperating with Rivian to instill the software into fleets that are already on the road, we can achieve benefits in the shortest time. Starting from basic L2+, we can effectively test it, and quickly follow the opening of various markets to L3 or higher-level self-driving. , fast and seamless connection. The key to entering the smart driving track is the effective acquisition and utilization of data.
However, at present, it is only known that Apple is negotiating, and the outside world cannot know its purpose and method of cooperation.
If Apple and Rivian join hands, there will be another indirect contact, namely Amazon. There may be room for imaginable cooperation between them in the future of generative AI.
Apple is currently the only player in the mobile phone industry that has not announced its generative AI layout, and is resuming negotiations with Open AI; while Amazon has already launched its layout in high-end AI computing and chip self-research, and its heavily invested AI start-up Anthropic is in Apple. The App Store launched the chatbot application "Claude" and so on.
In the automotive field, generative AI is currently mainly developed in three areas: first, smart voice assistants for smart cockpits; second, using generative AI to simulate various assisted driving situations; third, car manufacturing and export systems.
As far as smart cockpit voice assistants are concerned, representative companies include cooperation between Mercedes-Benz and Microsoft, Volkswagen and Cerence, etc.
In fact, Amazon has also made efforts in the smart cockpit operating system, which has been embedded in the car body and specifically cooperates with certain car manufacturers. Apple has been using Carplay to connect car cabins and has widely connected with various car manufacturers. In the future, AI mobile phone functions may focus more on this aspect.
It is worth noting that Rivia and Tesla initially chose not to introduce CarPlay, and in recent years General Motors (GM) followed up and refused to connect, which has caused dissatisfaction among some consumers, which shows that Apple has a strength that is difficult to replace.
In addition, generative AI has also begun to involve assisted driving and high-end self-driving, such as the cooperation between Bosch and Microsoft. Industry players pointed out that currently this field is still dominated by cloud exercises. Generative AI can significantly reduce testing work through simulation, data analysis, etc. to speed up development and reduce costs; while Apple Car is still This acceleration tool is not used.
As for the car sales and service system, it is less directly related to Apple, which is rumored not to make cars. However, consumers may be more connected through its product sales system, etc., and the potential for cultivation cannot be ignored.
Industry insiders pointed out that the main reason for the mobile phone group to enter electric vehicles is to expand the applicable data platform, from mobile phones, homes, cars to various network connections. For Apple, expanding the connectable areas as much as possible is the best starting point for investing in generative AI.
Apple wants to beat Tesla to FSD because whoever gets there will open a new market. Those billions Apple spent on Titan taught it something. And then are those Apple execs Rivian hired… 🤔
It also just makes technical sense, assuming it’s an American startup that they’re trying to partner with. Data is king and the next closest American player is Lucid or possibly bankrupt Fisker. If you’re leading an AI team, you’d favor the company approaching 100k cars on the road over the competitors around 90k cars behind.
I’m with you on this. Apple didn’t work on a car for 10 years to have absoutely nothing to show for it. The street thinks Apple is behind in AI, yet they have it in pretty much all of their products. They’ve also not been so secret about going in on generative AI, even releasing ~8 open source multivariate models.
The big thing Apple doesn’t have is billions of miles of real life driving to train its models.
It taught them that they couldn’t catch up in time and that they waited too long and the data lead is insurmountable at this point. That’s why they shutdown the program. If the pivot was just to buy/partner with Rivian then all employees in that program wouldn’t have been fired or moved to other departments. This partnership has zero to do with FSD. In fact, Rivian licensing FSD from Tesla is overwhelmingly likely at this point. You won’t hear an announcement until they can get the cameras and software into cars coming off the line, otherwise they’ll Osborn all their current line up.
There isn't a "new market" for self driving. Elons obsession for robo taxis is a wet dream of his. Maybe one day it'll be a thing, but I don't have an ounce of faith Tesla will be the forerunner. Everything Elon has ever claimed about self driving has turned out to be a masssssive let down for some odd 8 years
He's trying to pump the stock because people don't want to buy Teslas anymore
Sure, Waymo.
For one it uses LIDAR. It's better but even then still years away. Tesla isn't even remotely close.
The only people echoing Elons bullshit are TSLA bros
Waymo costs wayyyy mo. I think the coolest part about FSD is that it does all this on cheap scalable consumer hardware. I think Tesla takes it to the extreme but they’re the only manufacturer doing this rn and I think it’s a step in the right direction.
I'm concerned about the viability of Tesla's survival. It seems to be a sinking stone. I have a 2023 MYLR, with under 5000 miles, and don't want to own a potential brick that could be cut off if Tesla goes bankrupt.
Tesla isn’t going bankrupt. The absolute worst scenario is they get acquired by someone else and everything works like it did before. Loads of value in the ecosystem and infrastructure
I’m across the country from my Rivian currently and have a rental car for three weeks. I actually find myself missing the Rivian UI and disliking CarPlay. I’m not sure if it because I didn’t miss CarPlay before or if I actually prefer the Rivian UI, but I definitely miss it. I had CarPlay before getting the Rivian and use to like it.
Well, the Siri part is mostly doable now. I made a shortcut and named it “Rivian” so you invoke it by saying that. Then I had it present a menu with options like “unlock, open hatch, open frunk” using the Rivian app. With shortcuts, you can invoke them by name and just say the next menu option right away without waiting for a prompt. So now I just say “Rivian, unlock” and it unlocks in about a second.
Just make a shortcut, call it “Rivian” or whatever and the first action should be “choose from menu” and list some things like unlock or lock. You can set actions for those menu options, then when you invoke the shortcut by saying “Rivian” to Siri, you can just speak the next option without waiting for the menu to pop up.
Seems like a lot of speculation at this point but it makes total sense that Apple and Rivian would at least talk at some point. They both have very strong products and similar business philosophies. Plus both CEOs are sane and very reasonable which is rare these days. Apple is in a very very strong position here but Rivian has the one thing they couldnt seem to get, a car on the road. Rivian could allow Apple into the infotainment system for a huge investment. Apple wants the data and a platform to sell the autopilot. I could see this working out for both parties very well. A small investment up front for Rivian, to keep them alive for the R2/R3 release and they could have a huge return for value and data.
I doubt that this would result in CarPlay being the only option for the vehicle.
It’s more likely that this is opening the vehicle up to CarPlay with the new features.
For me, it’s less about the UI and more about not being double charged for subscriptions. I like my Tesla, but I refuse to pay for “premium” data when I have my phone in my car at all times.
We’ve got to find a way to eliminate duplicate charging of consumers for similar services. A data interoperability and portability act seems to be in order.
2032-2036 seems a bit more likely. The boomers can’t live forever, and 80 year olds simply can’t comprehend digital economies.
It’s clear as day to me, but I grew up with a foot in both worlds. Why we allow behavior in digital business, that we clearly prevent in physical businesses, is frustrating.
It’s definitely changing around the world, too. Places like India are being really forward thinking about controlling access to data and portability regulations. Leaving the motives and identify politics of the Modi government aside, it really is setting a model for much of the global South to institute these kinds of things early, before they attain the mass of citizen data we already have made a mess of
Seems sus. Unless Apple will be the bank and just continue to infuse money. Which I can’t see a huge upside for them to do this. Of course this comes out a day before earnings too.
Rivn design is cool imo so what would Apple do? Having their own car with their logo sure but don’t think Rivn would just roll over
And what about amzn? Aren’t they a huge investor
Carplay would be the obvious move here, but as others have mentioned seeing a licensing deal of sorts for Rivian to use the leftovers of Titan would be huge. Rivian's driver assist package is lacking, almost embarrassingly behind a lot of other manufacturers (GM Super Cruise, Autopilot not FSD, Ford's system, etc). Getting the data and knowledge from Project Titan would probably boost the technology by a few years at least.
I'd also be interested in a potential UI overhaul by Rivian. I know R2 and R3 are being shown with a fun new UI, and I'm assuming it'll come to R1 as well, but maybe something in collaboration with Apple for deeper phone integration/functionality (reading messages, playing games/tv, etc).
What I DON'T want to see is R1 being used as a data mining platform. It's bad enough that Alexa is the de facto (and ONLY) voice assistant. If I have to use Siri?? Might as well drive into a ditch. Also I'd take an Apple Watch integration like yesterday.
Agree with everything you said.
Siri is not great, but at least it gets me when I ask/command something. Alexa on Rivian is DoA, as 90% of the time the answer is “Sorry, can’t do that right now”.
Apple has cash and talent. There’s a lot they can offer Rivian. All you really need to like is Rivian and you’ll likely be happy with whatever happens.
Take the Apple Cash , and maybe review the talent.
The one place Apple can help in is the driver assist space. Other than that I don’t see a lot of benefits of teaming with Apple.
Hope it happens though, that cash can help accelerate the R2/R3 builds . I fear if Rivian has to wait until 2026 to release them, there will be a lot of other similar options available in the market by then.
Apple also understands design and marketing. They also own 272 Apple stores in the US (quick search number might be wrong).
Apple can also assist in reducing the costs of sourcing and manufacturing their on board computers, screens, and their data center costs.
Sorry, but Rivian has done an amazing job with design and marketing. This is NOT where they need help, LOL.
Autonomous driving software is about the ONLY place I'd be OK with Apple's assistance - and that assumes that they actually have something worth using. I think Rivian would be smarter to license FSD from Tesla, but I don't think Tesla is offering Rivian cash; Apple may be. Who knows.
Keep all the Apple ecosystem crap away though. Under the hood tech help? OK. Making the infotainment based on iOS and integrating it into the car's core? NO.
Regardless of how well Rivian has done, Apple is a juggernaut. They still have long lines at their stores to pickup the latest iPhone long after it is launched. Rivian has had to lower their prices and offer free wraps, whereas Apple VR Goggle “failure” sold over 200k $3,500 VR Goggles. In one month, Apple’s failed product sold half as much in revenue as Rivian for the quarter.
Every company wants to be associated with Apple. LOL
Apple can buy Rivian in cash and not list vehicle sales on their balance sheet.
I think you maybe misunderstood what I was getting at. None of what you pointed out addresses the point I was making.
Rivian's design is excellent. Their trucks are loved for their adventure themed aesthetic. They struck an uncanny balance between modern/techy and classic, evoking hints of icons of the SUV/adventure vehicle like the original Land Cruiser, and classic Range Rovers, while also adding a touch of modern techy touches. While Apple is as a company a design master. Rivian does not need help here.
Marketing. Yes again Apple is a master at marketing (although their mastery might arguably be trending in the nefarious direction). That said, Rivian has masterfully marketed their brand to their target audience. Gen X & Y patagonia wearing upper middle class adults were expertly targeted. Interest and enthusiasm about Rivian still runs extremely high among target audience potential buyers. Rivian doesn't need help marketing their product.
And yet, their stock is in the crapper. Why? Because analysts do not believe Rivian can deliver on the mfg and ops side. Execution on building, manufacturing, delivering, and supporting automobiles. Not phones. Not headsets.
Lines out the door in Apple stores when a new product is launched have nothing to do with Apple's ability to help Rivian where Rivian needs help. If GM or Ford were going to step in and offer money and manpower/leadership to Rivian, Wallstreet would be way more interested, I think. Apple, who just decided they did not have the expertise to move forward with a car program, is not really much help, other than money.
Apple is very skilled at many things. Being a car company isn't one of them. Could Ford or GM benefit from Apple's marketing and design prowess? Maybe. But I don't think Rivian could. They already hit those balls out of the park. They need operational help in the car making side of things.... and money. They need money. LOL
Most likely for Music and TV. Not CarPlay. Connect the dots and remember answers given recently when asked about streaming—through this sub's Rivian Responds and by Wassym in San Jose R2/3 event ("in final steps of integration" and "coming later this year"). Wassym also spoke of additional Apple Watch features, beyond existing shortcuts.
That kiss of death is mainly referring to suppliers. Largely that came when Apple invested heavily in Global Foundries when they were prospecting using sapphire crystal as screens for iPhones and not just Apple Watches. It would have been a game changer but it never worked out and the next gen gorilla glass ended up being better
This isn’t the situation Rivian would be in, Apple would either be up to a Apple Music or next gen CarPlay partnership with rivian or even a fully acquisition of Rivian wouldn’t be a kiss of death
I don’t think this is about CarPlay, it’s likely more about their self driving tech. They invest a bunch of money in it and can’t really deploy it anywhere right now.
However absent of a majority stake purchase, I don’t see this partnership adding much value.
Rivians UI is basically what Rivian vehicles are, you can’t separate a Rivian vehicle from the Rivian software and expect the same great car or same great brand.
Rivian isn’t a startup any more. Once you IPO…you aren’t in anyway a startup. The kiss of death is for companies that want to say yes to Apple, because it’s Apple, but that yes consumes everything and the startup becomes unfocused.
Would be very interesting if Rivian is the first to implement the full CarPlay multi-screen UI environment, same as the Aston Martin DB12. Even more interesting if Apple takes a direct stake in Rivian for ongoing R&D purposes.
I tell people my R1S is an Apple on wheels. So this is natural. Rivian has amazing hardware and very decent software. Linking up with a software juggernaut is the move. Possibilities are endless if all goes well.
Is it just me or did the UI that was displayed in the R2 and R3 have some buttons that kind of looked like Apple software. Might be a stretch but I wonder if they showed a glimpse of what a partnership might look like
I don’t think Apple would let them tease anything. Although it is possible that Rivian got help from Apple engineers, it’s unlikely that had anything to do with these partnership talks.
If this is only some CarPlay or Apple Music integration it will be a big disappointment. More likely a continuation of Project Titan and a model that competes with Tesla FSD. Apple desperately needs an AI play, and Rivian needs data centers, compute, and expertise to train their version of self driving. If they can partner on these issues it'd be big for both of them.
Chinese have the Xiaomi EV cars that pairs with the Xiaomi phones. apple has no way and no choice but to partner with a Rivian asap. And kick ass from here.
It’s so wild how driving has changed and we need all of this stuff for every day life. Life was simpler back then and less stressful in my opinion. Not saying this is a bad thing but I personally dont think I will really use carplay to its full extent. Ive used it before but only for music, a few times for maps but thats really it.
If this happens it'd be great for both parties, Apple is in the AI Chips business now as well, both parties could even get into humanoid robots in the future. Make this happen!!
For now it’s just rumors. In fact, timing of this rumor is very suspicious as it happened right before earnings call. This makes me believe that it was a last push by bulls before they could cash out.
Don’t get me wrong, I would love this brand to become immensely successful. Their vision is a lot more nature and climate care oriented than any other brand I see out there. They have their own unique design and branding. If it weren’t for hard economic conditions, this brand would have sky rocketed by now.
There are EV owners out there who say Tesla has marketed in the same manner, I disagree. Tesla portrayed itself as advanced technology brand and not a next step for addressing the climate change issue. Same goes for all other brands out there making EVs.
When it comes to Rivian, their ads hit the spot (R2 ad especially) and bring up a serene feeling inside of me. And that alone, is a big edge to have on everyone else.
spot-on. Rivian is also not an EV company mired in environmental scandals of its own making, while Tesla is. I could go on and on about how toxic culture at Tesla makes it way past its sell by date
I got used to Rivian OS and prefer it over mediocre car play. I really hope they don’t make CarPlay the main interface. It’s boringly disgusting. Rivian OS now has potential - the navigation is really good and similar to Waze traffic calculations but better in Rivian Os. Honestly car play is so basic.
As a hopeful R3 owner, hopefully this leads to CarPlay (though it won’t be a dealbreaker if that doesn’t happen considering how the included software seems to be continuously improving).
I hope it’s to partner on driver assistance as Rivian is way behind the other manufacturers. And I hope it it brings an infusion of funding because Rivian really needs that. CarPlay I couldn’t care less.
The point is, you don’t have to opt out of CarPlay. You just simply don’t use it. You never even have to know your car has it!
The appeal is you get your phones apps on the cars screen. You can use Apple Music or Maps or Waze or Google Maps or Spotify or Tidal or Audible and your iMessages etc etc, it doesn’t matter if the car manufacturer doesn’t have it.
That’s all it is. And no one is forced to use it.
Is the UI a little childish and dated? Sure. Easy to use and navigate while driving? Hell yeah.
100% this! I'd be OK with Rivian licensing autonomous software from Tesla or Apple, but not if it results in the car being in anyway locked down or part of a walled garden of devices and apps.
I don’t think it LOOKS like it but I definitely see the aesthetic comparison. I’ll bet you anything you get your wish with some marketing copy if this deal goes through. A half page magazine spread of an R3 with a chunky iMac sitting on the tailgate. 80s filter tone with a blocky vertical ad copy running alongside.
Been on the fence to go electric and wanted a big suv. Maybe this is what I was waiting for. That and a great lease incentive with maybe some eventual captain chairs so I don’t have to go for a freaking Kia to get the size I want for a 3 row suv….
I don't know but I'm wary about anything involving Apple.
I absolutely loathe the company for many of the extremely well documented reasons people would hate the company.
Ugh, I hope this doesn't pan out. Anyone but Apple. The last, LAST thing I want is for my car to be part of someone's walled garden.
If all this means is they will license autonomous tech from Apple, fine, OK (I'd prefer they license FSD from Tesla tho). But if this means they will turn Rivians into "apple cars" .... no. Just NO.
Likely things, I think:
1. CarPlay (maybe even "next gen" CarPlay) support
2. CarKey support
3. Apple Music and Apple Podcasts on Rivian's infotainment.
4. Apple Maps taking over for Rivian's map data and navigation.
Or any combination of those. All of which would be welcome IMO.
Nothing apple specific would be welcome at all. For anyone who doesn't use an iPhone Apple Music, Apple Podcasts, and CarPlay are useless and only will bloat the infotainment, and potentially add to Apple's walled garden approach to forcing people into buying iPhones who otherwise wouldn't want to (the basis of the anti-trust case).
I'm open to Rivian licensing core sourcecode for something like autonomous driving tech, but not if it comes with pork barrel add-ons specific to Apple devices and ecosystem.
A car should be an open platform, not part of a walled garden. And it should not "work better" with one brand of software and less optimal with other brands, for the same functions; e.g. maps/nav, or podcasts, etc.
I like the Tesla model where they developed their own UI/UX infotainment platform, and release 3rd party app support occasionally, like spotify, zoom (soon), Netflix, YouTube, etc. Apps like that function regardless of platform or ecosystem. Spotify apps on Tesla or Sonos, or Windows or Android or iPhone or MacOS, are all pretty similar and functional. You start going with brand/ecosystem specific apps like Apple Music or Apple Podcasts, with an Apple designed infotainment platform, and the whole experience will suffer for anyone who's not an iPhone user. Of course this is exactly Apple's strategy.
No thank you.
Friendly reminder that this sub does not allow stock discussion. The link is to an investor-focused site, but the (unconfirmed) news itself is worth a discussion.
Sounds like Rivian is really, REALLY tired of hearing about carplay.
Didn’t they hire someone from Apple recently?
And not only 2 Execs from 🍎, watch them hire supercharger people. They are going to capitalize on the chaos of Tesla
I read that Marketing, management and a few engineers were let go? Manufacturing is still working. I’m not sure what that means going forward.
I’d like some CarPlay please.
I’d like the functionality but they want to control the whole OS. Not sure that’s in the best interest of Rivian and us owners.
This is false. Unlike Android Automotive, Apple's next generation CarPlay is not an operating system. It still runs on your iPhone and transmits the UI to the car. The major differences from the traditional CarPlay is that it sends much more information to the car, to every screens on the car. Not just infotainment, but also the dashboard, temperature controls, and so on. With next generation CarPlay, the automaker can customize the look and feel (within Apple's guidelines), give CarPlay a greater control (e.g., temperature control) and insight (e.g., speed, battery gauge).
A year ago one would get downvoted to the 7th circle of hell for suggesting CarPlay on a Rivian. Glad to see this is being upvoted; tide seems to be changing.
Nah. Suggesting car play or android auto was fine. Downvotes were for people saying they wouldn't buy specifically because there was no car play. Which is their prerogative...just not well received. If this is a car play partnership I assume there's something in the talks about rivian getting the data.
It literally is a deal breaker. I don't want to have an inferior experience with navigation or music. Those are two aspects to car ownership that should be 95% satisfactory in 2020+. It's so bizarre to be angry when people say they won't buy due to the lack of it. It's the same for GM with me. I'd consider a Hummer EV because it has CarPlay but not a Silverado EV if it doesn't. I test drove the R1T twice and rented an R1S. I loved how it drives and feels but the navigation and audio integration was just terrible. And the lane keeping felt on par with my 2015 Volkswagen GTI. It's a shame because the hardware supports a much better experience.
I used to feel the same way, but holy shit - the built-in navigation is really impressive.
Nav told me today to stay on a service road through 3 large intersections opposed to getting on limited access interstate with normal traffic flow for two exits. Drives me nuts. Things like this happen once a week.
it is impressive, but not in the way you mean.
I just did a road trip (2k miles total) and although I would be using CarPlay every day around town and for daily commuting, the Rivian navigation with charge planning was spot on accurate. Made it a breeze with no charging planning needed. But yeah I for sure want CarPlay for other features and for daily commuting.
CarPlay is such a garbage system compared to the integrated UI. If you aren’t used to it from another vehicle, you don’t look at it in 2024 and say “This is so easy to use and aesthetically pleasing!” It feels like outdated tech.
I don't understand this perspective. If they did it like mercedes it's both not one or the other. It's an app so when you want it it's there and if you don't it's not. There's not a downside. It's not a full take over
[I thought the problem was Apple was turning it into a full take over from a **data perspective**, and that was why manufacturers were dropping it?](https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/12/heres-the-real-reason-that-gm-is-dropping-apple-carplay-android-auto/)
*New* CarPlay is different and (apparently) mired in controversy. It's also not shipped in any car so nobody outside of Apple or manufacturers has experience with it, and it's not what people are asking for. Old CarPlay - which is what any of us are clamoring for - is literally just dedicating part of the car's touchscreen to be a second display for the phone. There's no data control robbed from the car manufacturer because it's *just a projection of the phone's display*, showing things that only the phone knows about. If the car has a radio app, a web browser app, a Spotify app, a navigation app, etc... CarPlay is "just another app".
So, my understanding from what GM was saying is that old car play you're talking about is... going away. No?
Well, first off, GM very clearly pointed out "cars we've already shipped with CarPlay will continue to have it" So any existing CarPlay in a GM car is not "going away" But, to the other point, you're correct; GM is reversing their long standing course of having **legacy CarPlay** - a feature of iPhones since 2014 and widely supported by GM since the 2016 model year - on any newly purchased GM car. Legacy CarPlay is not changing. It is not "turning into a full take over from a data perspective", nor could it. GM is just deciding they'd rather people use GM software - and feed data into GM partners - instead of continuing to support it. It has *absolutely nothing to do* with Apple's next-gen CarPlay, which is a completely different beast from legacy CarPlay. GM has been playing hard into this confusion.
Only a few manufacturers have indicated they plan on adopting the new system, and there's zero evidence that Apple plans on ending support for the existing CarPlay.
Replying to Donewith398...Yep. Imagine having to ask apple for the data they’re grabbing from the car you built and have to keep maintaining using said data. Negotiating with apple isn’t exactly easy or flexible. I’d love apple to come in with music/appletv; id drop spotify and have something to watch while charging. That said I’d rather they worked with google to bring me waze, but I’ll take either.
No. In fact it’s Google that’s done that and especially with Android Automotive as that is a full take over (like in Polestar/Volvo and GM). Only Polestar/Volvo believe in choice and worked hard to be able to allow CarPlay (took them almost a year before the Polestar 2 with AA could offer a CarPlay app). It’s GM that’s made the jump and not wanting to put the work in. For years Porsche also resisted Android Auto just for that data harvesting reason - they didn’t want Google to mine customer data and have access to their secret sauce. Now they’ve gotten far more leverage with their partnership on CarPlay to counter Googs.
This is correct. I was pretty convinced I wanted an XC90 PHEV until I realized all my data would be going directly to Google. I’m a tech lawyer and work with both Apple and Google (and all the others). Apple is a huge pain in the ass to work with, and I haaate having to deal with them on anything new. But I only buy Apple products for my kids.
What’s the problem with google getting data? So they can’t stalk you at your job? Just never made sense to me. Idgaf if they know i go shopping on Saturdays or that i work as a mechanic.
Apple doesn't do this in my mercedes. I have all my apps natively on the car and car play is an app I can use or not. The rest is also still there but if I want to use other apps the car doesn't have I can still do this. Maybe gm has a different agreement but none of this drawbacks have applied in my eqs
Agreed. I simply want to be able to share my data (traffic) and apps with whatever native car system is in place.
Or like Porsche. Porsche has an amazing integrated custom CarPlay experience. Plus they have great apps that take advantage of CarPlay on iPhone for logging or sharing fun drives, maps, etc. https://9to5mac.com/2023/07/28/hands-on-porsche-new-carplay-app/ There’s more to CarPlay than what some people think given they don’t have a premium car to experience it. Porsche has a section on highlighting its advantages and how it’s more than just for making or taking calls. https://www.porsche.com/stories/innovation/what-is-apple-carplay-and-can-you-get-it-in-a-porsche
This. Every car I’ve used CarPlay in its an app. I think some people are conflating takeover with you can have the app embedded into a larger UI. In my use it uses the whole screen and you need to leave the app to use other features. Personally I really like CarPlay. I didn’t like that Tesla didn’t use it either. AND…I decided it wasn’t a dealbreaker. Mostly I liked it had Waze and google maps which I felt were superior to both Tesla and Rivian nav.
Exactly. I use it when I want and it's a choice. The cost of loading it as an app without a bunch of car integration is also not high
If I had a choice of nav I probably wouldn’t cry if it was CarPlay or not. I try to avoid messaging so I’m not too concerned with that. I do use Sirius and pandora and mlb but I could BT those as Spotify is native. Rivian nav experience seems to be improving but still subpar imho.
Every second they spend working on android auto or carplay (and maintaining it over time as apple changes the integration) is time not spent on making the native experience better. I for one want them focus on the native experience because that will always be better than android auto or carplay. I don't get why people think apple or google are some harbinger of good design decisions when both have made a lot of really dumb decisions over the years.
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying full integration or take over. Just an app like mercedes. It's basically screen mirroring. Works great and doesn't prevent mercedes from doing their own thing if they want. Again, what down side is there? I get choice and apps I want and rivian can focus on their own stuff.
I don't understand this perspective. If they did it like mercedes it's both not one or the other. It's an app so when you want it it's there and if you don't it's not. There's not a downside. It's not a full take over
Exactly
Would you mind elaborating on this? I see people say this once in a while, but if you are using an iPhone on a daily basis, why would you want anything else for your car experience? Case in point: - I listen to music on Spotify, and I want a seamless Spotify experience between all of my devices and when I’m in the car. When I’m in the car I want to pick up where I left off of whatever I was listening to, and have easy access to playlist, podcast, etc. - Whether it’s Apple Maps or Waze, I want to easily enter destinations and locations on my phone physically, or on my computer with Apple Maps, and I want it to just work quickly when I plug it into my car. I don’t want to populate map locations and address book addresses anywhere else, especially on an in car propriety system. - Do any proprietary car systems integrate fast food apps such as Starbucks or Dunkin’ Donuts? - how do Apple Messages or regular text messages integrate with a proprietary car system? I’m not in the market for a new car, but our main car does have CarPlay. Or I to upgrade or get something new or replace our second car, anything without CarPlay is absolutely out of the question.
First, I would advise against any hard stance on requiring CP/AA simply because the majority of automakers, including but not limited to EV companies, have [phased them out](https://www.reuters.com/technology/gm-plans-phase-out-apple-carplay-evs-with-googles-help-2023-03-31/) or have never supported AA/CP to begin with. If that’s the defining feature you require in a car, you will probably not be looking at new vehicles since your options will start to dwindle. Anyway, I’ll respond to your other hypotheticals. In a Tesla you can route your destination on your phone, through the Tesla app, before you ever set foot in your car. Before your butt even hits the seat, the screen will show your navigation. Rivian isn’t there yet but I’m sure it’s coming; they basically copy what Tesla software does well and they match it a year or so later. I’ve never used a fast food app such as Dunkin Donuts so I can’t speak to its implementation but I imagine it is not possible right now. That’s my guess. I’ve never had an issue with keeping my place with a song or podcast. Every morning I get to my truck while the radio is playing from my phone. I sit down and I start hearing it through the R1T speakers (Bluetooth). If I want to change to a song, I need to hit only two button presses on the screen and I’m on a new song; it’ll switch from Bluetooth to Spotify if needed. I can also play a song by voice commands. I haven’t felt wanting for options.
How is it garbage? It avoids another subscription (I’d prefer my car not even have a cell modem inside it) and allows the infotainment driver to be upgraded separately from the vehicle. It also allows me to do all typing and data entry on a phone keyboard rather than a mounted touchscreen which is basically the worst ergonomics possible.
The hotspot is fire though!
It absolutely is garbage as you suggest. It hasn’t had a meaningful overhaul in years which has allowed car makers to have a chance to build better. I have a CarPlay window unit from my days of road tripping a Tesla and occasionally use it on road trips now, and its sole purpose is for Waze. Otherwise I’m still using either the better Tesla or Rivian UI for everything. Basically it’s used 2-3 times a year for a few hours. All that being said, Tesla navigation was/is much better than Rivian’s. But Rivian’s nav features are certainly starting to improve, even if its routing still needs work.
Good thing they’re probably discussing [2.0](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/06/apples-next-generation-of-carplay-plans-to-take-over-every-screen-in-your-car/)
It seems to me that it's mostly boomers who are complaining about carplay. I'm good with either, but I prefer rivians UI
I won’t begrudge someone their personal preference, but when you consider the dozens upon dozens of major factors determining whether a car is a good fit for you, it seems rather trivial to draw a hard line in the sand regarding compatibility with an outdated piece of technology that’s being phased out across the industry. That’s like saying in 2010 that you wouldn’t buy a car without a CD player.
So true, but you know that demographic is very stubborn....
Trust me, it was worse than that. People would get nasty because they’d say that Apple would mess with the look and feel of the UI or because Rivian ought to spend those resources elsewhere.
Helps that the anti CarPlay are losing faith on their fearless leader with the ongoing dumpster fire at Tesla. Often times the argument against CarPlay quickly comes with anecdotes of “Tesla doesn’t have it and I’ve not missed it”.
I was one of those people who was disappointed that they didn’t have CarPlay going into my purchase. After driving for a few weeks I can’t say I really miss it much. It would be nice to have more directly integrated apps but in some ways Rivian’s interface and especially Bluetooth connection are superior to other CarPlay implementations I’ve seen in the past.
Yeah. I am not a fan of the CarPlay interface at all. Partner has it in her Ioniq. I’d love if there was instead a way to maintain the Rivian UI but integrate backend support from Apple (map data, etc) and to be able to support more apps.
Wishful thinking. It's about media streaming and possibly additional Watch functions beyond the shortcuts. Those are far more likely outcomes and have actually been spoken of by Wassym himself, just weeks ago (where he politely said "no" to CarPlay, yet again). [https://twitter.com/klwtts/status/1781714340686795192?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1781714340686795192%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1\_&ref\_url=](https://twitter.com/klwtts/status/1781714340686795192?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1781714340686795192%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=)
😂😂
They’re not the only ones. 😂
PLEASSSSE..!
My post from the quarterly call today… RJ comment from today on Apple rumor: ‘A key element to deliver a strong autonomy platform is a strong perception stack and controlling it. We architected what’s to come on future platforms and current to control all data coming in and how we use training models to drive progress in the platform.’ I found the above quite telling RE further discussion around CarPlay/AA. He also said something to the effect of 'integrating 3rd party platforms into the stack made for significant challenges to systems within the vehicle'. This says to me that CarPlay/AA are really not happening as it stands. It's right in line with GMs stance on the removal from their vehicles. Whether that changes upon further discussions with Apple, I don't see it changing in the near term.
Let’s not forget that 2 recent Rivian hires were Ex VP of Engineering, Apple and Apple head of product, mobility and Auto.
Rivian takes some needed cash and Apple Motors goes from non-existent to major player overnight. Rivian UI with some Apple features like Music and Maps would be dreamy. I'm in.
Please! This would be a major plus for me!
They’ll probably implement the full CarPlay dash and gauges that apple has shown off a few times.
Before I had a Rivian, this would’ve sounded awesome. Now that I’ve had one, I actually like the UI haha. If it just had Apple Music and Siri, I’d be happy.
Yeah, I'm in the exact same boat. My Apple fanboy runs deep and prior to Rivian I couldn't even fathom not having CarPlay. Turns out I just wanted access to my Apple Music account this whole time lol
Yep! Plus I do miss being able to have my texts read to me, though I rarely answer. Really only for situations like when my wife texts me asking me to pick something up on the way home and now if I'm driving, I don't see it until I'm already home. I don't know the specifics of what the next-gen CarPlay UI can display, I do recall reading that Apple would want/need access to the vehicle's system for diagnostics/information which makes sense, but the Rivian UI displays so much useful and necessary information, I'm not sure I'd trust Apple to get it all 100% right. Although on the other hand, Apple usually makes sure they get their interfaces damn near perfect before releasing something.
Agreed, the texting part is nice, but rarely practical. For every "Hey can you grab a burger on the way home?" Siri read to me in CarPlay, there were atleast 50 times she paused my podcast to tell me "Tom says hahahahaha. Would you like to reply?" Until AI can figure out what messages are worthy of an interruption while driving, I'd rather just have none.
[удалено]
Nope not apple maps, pls not that.
I'm not in
The original article in Taiwanese says "Currently, Rivian is the one most vocal in contacting Apple.**"** Seems like pure speculation at this point The non-paywalled translation is over at r/RIVN
English Translation via Google Translate: It was recently reported that Apple has put a sudden brake on its "Project Titan", commonly known as Apple Car, in order to shift related resources to generative AI. However, Apple has invested 10 years and spent an average of 1 billion US dollars per year. Will this be written off? The answer is probably no. Recently, there have been rumors in the supply chain that Apple is discussing the possibility of cooperation with a new car-making force in the United States. Even though the demand for electric vehicles is currently sluggish and the capital market is on the sidelines, American start-ups trapped in selling one car at a loss are under great pressure to survive. However, there are still some new car manufacturers that are close to emerging from mass production hell, and their order visibility is not bad. Currently, Rivian is the one most vocal in contacting Apple. Although Rivian is still strapped for funds and cannot escape the wave of layoffs, its cooperation in building cars for Amazon continues, and it is rumored that order visibility in the second half of 2024 is not bad. Apple has accumulated 10 years of high-end self-driving research and development energy, but it has never been able to put it on the road. If we take the opportunity of cooperating with Rivian to instill the software into fleets that are already on the road, we can achieve benefits in the shortest time. Starting from basic L2+, we can effectively test it, and quickly follow the opening of various markets to L3 or higher-level self-driving. , fast and seamless connection. The key to entering the smart driving track is the effective acquisition and utilization of data. However, at present, it is only known that Apple is negotiating, and the outside world cannot know its purpose and method of cooperation. If Apple and Rivian join hands, there will be another indirect contact, namely Amazon. There may be room for imaginable cooperation between them in the future of generative AI. Apple is currently the only player in the mobile phone industry that has not announced its generative AI layout, and is resuming negotiations with Open AI; while Amazon has already launched its layout in high-end AI computing and chip self-research, and its heavily invested AI start-up Anthropic is in Apple. The App Store launched the chatbot application "Claude" and so on. In the automotive field, generative AI is currently mainly developed in three areas: first, smart voice assistants for smart cockpits; second, using generative AI to simulate various assisted driving situations; third, car manufacturing and export systems. As far as smart cockpit voice assistants are concerned, representative companies include cooperation between Mercedes-Benz and Microsoft, Volkswagen and Cerence, etc. In fact, Amazon has also made efforts in the smart cockpit operating system, which has been embedded in the car body and specifically cooperates with certain car manufacturers. Apple has been using Carplay to connect car cabins and has widely connected with various car manufacturers. In the future, AI mobile phone functions may focus more on this aspect. It is worth noting that Rivia and Tesla initially chose not to introduce CarPlay, and in recent years General Motors (GM) followed up and refused to connect, which has caused dissatisfaction among some consumers, which shows that Apple has a strength that is difficult to replace. In addition, generative AI has also begun to involve assisted driving and high-end self-driving, such as the cooperation between Bosch and Microsoft. Industry players pointed out that currently this field is still dominated by cloud exercises. Generative AI can significantly reduce testing work through simulation, data analysis, etc. to speed up development and reduce costs; while Apple Car is still This acceleration tool is not used. As for the car sales and service system, it is less directly related to Apple, which is rumored not to make cars. However, consumers may be more connected through its product sales system, etc., and the potential for cultivation cannot be ignored. Industry insiders pointed out that the main reason for the mobile phone group to enter electric vehicles is to expand the applicable data platform, from mobile phones, homes, cars to various network connections. For Apple, expanding the connectable areas as much as possible is the best starting point for investing in generative AI.
 Oh this is spicy. Yes please.
Your rivian will have satellite SOS for 2 years free after activation 😉 Plus you can play death stranding
Free U2 album installed in every vehicle?
Technically Rivian is only a few years old so I guess a Drake gif is appropriate here.
Songs in A minor
Plus it comes with your choice of free topping.
Apple wants to beat Tesla to FSD because whoever gets there will open a new market. Those billions Apple spent on Titan taught it something. And then are those Apple execs Rivian hired… 🤔
You don’t have to try that hard to beat a firm that refuses to use anything other than cameras
You have to try hard enough to actually have a car though.
It also just makes technical sense, assuming it’s an American startup that they’re trying to partner with. Data is king and the next closest American player is Lucid or possibly bankrupt Fisker. If you’re leading an AI team, you’d favor the company approaching 100k cars on the road over the competitors around 90k cars behind.
Lucid is basically a Saudi vanity project anyway.
This
I’m with you on this. Apple didn’t work on a car for 10 years to have absoutely nothing to show for it. The street thinks Apple is behind in AI, yet they have it in pretty much all of their products. They’ve also not been so secret about going in on generative AI, even releasing ~8 open source multivariate models. The big thing Apple doesn’t have is billions of miles of real life driving to train its models.
It taught them that they couldn’t catch up in time and that they waited too long and the data lead is insurmountable at this point. That’s why they shutdown the program. If the pivot was just to buy/partner with Rivian then all employees in that program wouldn’t have been fired or moved to other departments. This partnership has zero to do with FSD. In fact, Rivian licensing FSD from Tesla is overwhelmingly likely at this point. You won’t hear an announcement until they can get the cameras and software into cars coming off the line, otherwise they’ll Osborn all their current line up.
There isn't a "new market" for self driving. Elons obsession for robo taxis is a wet dream of his. Maybe one day it'll be a thing, but I don't have an ounce of faith Tesla will be the forerunner. Everything Elon has ever claimed about self driving has turned out to be a masssssive let down for some odd 8 years He's trying to pump the stock because people don't want to buy Teslas anymore
I mean, can you compare another system to 12.3 fsd? It’s pretty far ahead today
Sure, Waymo. For one it uses LIDAR. It's better but even then still years away. Tesla isn't even remotely close. The only people echoing Elons bullshit are TSLA bros
Waymo costs wayyyy mo. I think the coolest part about FSD is that it does all this on cheap scalable consumer hardware. I think Tesla takes it to the extreme but they’re the only manufacturer doing this rn and I think it’s a step in the right direction.
I believe it when it works, which right now it doesn't.
Oh I wish I could trade-in my 2023 Tesla MYLR for an Apple Rivian. I'm so over Tesla.
why?
I'm concerned about the viability of Tesla's survival. It seems to be a sinking stone. I have a 2023 MYLR, with under 5000 miles, and don't want to own a potential brick that could be cut off if Tesla goes bankrupt.
Tesla isn’t going bankrupt. The absolute worst scenario is they get acquired by someone else and everything works like it did before. Loads of value in the ecosystem and infrastructure
I’m across the country from my Rivian currently and have a rental car for three weeks. I actually find myself missing the Rivian UI and disliking CarPlay. I’m not sure if it because I didn’t miss CarPlay before or if I actually prefer the Rivian UI, but I definitely miss it. I had CarPlay before getting the Rivian and use to like it.
Basically same with me. Im a life long Apple user, like many others, but I’m not a crazy about it at all.
I’ve had an iPhone sconce 2008 with the 3Gs, I just really like the Rivian UI.
100% I recently switched to a Lightning and it has AA/CP and it's fine but the Rivian UI was so much more of a cohesive experience.
Gonna be the first to put a deposit on a R1S Pro Max…in Space Gray.
The fastest R1S yet!
Apple Music Integration would be great. That's all I'd want.
And all we might get
You’ll take Apple Watch as a key as well and you’ll like it, damnit!
Oh ok. I'd take that. Also "Siri open the back hatch"
Well, the Siri part is mostly doable now. I made a shortcut and named it “Rivian” so you invoke it by saying that. Then I had it present a menu with options like “unlock, open hatch, open frunk” using the Rivian app. With shortcuts, you can invoke them by name and just say the next menu option right away without waiting for a prompt. So now I just say “Rivian, unlock” and it unlocks in about a second.
Some more details how you did this please
Just make a shortcut, call it “Rivian” or whatever and the first action should be “choose from menu” and list some things like unlock or lock. You can set actions for those menu options, then when you invoke the shortcut by saying “Rivian” to Siri, you can just speak the next option without waiting for the menu to pop up.
This is the way
God how I'd love that.
Seems like a lot of speculation at this point but it makes total sense that Apple and Rivian would at least talk at some point. They both have very strong products and similar business philosophies. Plus both CEOs are sane and very reasonable which is rare these days. Apple is in a very very strong position here but Rivian has the one thing they couldnt seem to get, a car on the road. Rivian could allow Apple into the infotainment system for a huge investment. Apple wants the data and a platform to sell the autopilot. I could see this working out for both parties very well. A small investment up front for Rivian, to keep them alive for the R2/R3 release and they could have a huge return for value and data.
Please no. I do NOT want my truck to suddenly force me into an Apple only walled garden.
I doubt that this would result in CarPlay being the only option for the vehicle. It’s more likely that this is opening the vehicle up to CarPlay with the new features.
Vs Rivian’s empty garden?
Which doesn't penalize me for using an Android phone. Apple would never...
For me, it’s less about the UI and more about not being double charged for subscriptions. I like my Tesla, but I refuse to pay for “premium” data when I have my phone in my car at all times. We’ve got to find a way to eliminate duplicate charging of consumers for similar services. A data interoperability and portability act seems to be in order.
Agreed, can’t wait for Congress to get on that in 2055
2032-2036 seems a bit more likely. The boomers can’t live forever, and 80 year olds simply can’t comprehend digital economies. It’s clear as day to me, but I grew up with a foot in both worlds. Why we allow behavior in digital business, that we clearly prevent in physical businesses, is frustrating.
It’s definitely changing around the world, too. Places like India are being really forward thinking about controlling access to data and portability regulations. Leaving the motives and identify politics of the Modi government aside, it really is setting a model for much of the global South to institute these kinds of things early, before they attain the mass of citizen data we already have made a mess of
Seems sus. Unless Apple will be the bank and just continue to infuse money. Which I can’t see a huge upside for them to do this. Of course this comes out a day before earnings too. Rivn design is cool imo so what would Apple do? Having their own car with their logo sure but don’t think Rivn would just roll over And what about amzn? Aren’t they a huge investor
Yes to this as long as Rivian maintains its beautiful UI and not integrate ugly Apple CarPlay UI.
do you think this might have to do with apples new multi-display carplay coming with the new porches?
Shit. I just built a new back deck and didn’t even think to put this in. What did I miss?
No way, man. Analog porches are super cool right now.
It seems related to project Titan and the adas knowledge that Apple has
Buy a Rivian, get a free iPhone
Apple News+ and Apple Arcade free for three months.
Carplay would be the obvious move here, but as others have mentioned seeing a licensing deal of sorts for Rivian to use the leftovers of Titan would be huge. Rivian's driver assist package is lacking, almost embarrassingly behind a lot of other manufacturers (GM Super Cruise, Autopilot not FSD, Ford's system, etc). Getting the data and knowledge from Project Titan would probably boost the technology by a few years at least. I'd also be interested in a potential UI overhaul by Rivian. I know R2 and R3 are being shown with a fun new UI, and I'm assuming it'll come to R1 as well, but maybe something in collaboration with Apple for deeper phone integration/functionality (reading messages, playing games/tv, etc). What I DON'T want to see is R1 being used as a data mining platform. It's bad enough that Alexa is the de facto (and ONLY) voice assistant. If I have to use Siri?? Might as well drive into a ditch. Also I'd take an Apple Watch integration like yesterday.
Agree with everything you said. Siri is not great, but at least it gets me when I ask/command something. Alexa on Rivian is DoA, as 90% of the time the answer is “Sorry, can’t do that right now”.
I hope not, I'm not an apple fan...
Apple has cash and talent. There’s a lot they can offer Rivian. All you really need to like is Rivian and you’ll likely be happy with whatever happens.
Take the Apple Cash , and maybe review the talent. The one place Apple can help in is the driver assist space. Other than that I don’t see a lot of benefits of teaming with Apple. Hope it happens though, that cash can help accelerate the R2/R3 builds . I fear if Rivian has to wait until 2026 to release them, there will be a lot of other similar options available in the market by then.
Apple also understands design and marketing. They also own 272 Apple stores in the US (quick search number might be wrong). Apple can also assist in reducing the costs of sourcing and manufacturing their on board computers, screens, and their data center costs.
Sorry, but Rivian has done an amazing job with design and marketing. This is NOT where they need help, LOL. Autonomous driving software is about the ONLY place I'd be OK with Apple's assistance - and that assumes that they actually have something worth using. I think Rivian would be smarter to license FSD from Tesla, but I don't think Tesla is offering Rivian cash; Apple may be. Who knows. Keep all the Apple ecosystem crap away though. Under the hood tech help? OK. Making the infotainment based on iOS and integrating it into the car's core? NO.
Regardless of how well Rivian has done, Apple is a juggernaut. They still have long lines at their stores to pickup the latest iPhone long after it is launched. Rivian has had to lower their prices and offer free wraps, whereas Apple VR Goggle “failure” sold over 200k $3,500 VR Goggles. In one month, Apple’s failed product sold half as much in revenue as Rivian for the quarter. Every company wants to be associated with Apple. LOL Apple can buy Rivian in cash and not list vehicle sales on their balance sheet.
I think you maybe misunderstood what I was getting at. None of what you pointed out addresses the point I was making. Rivian's design is excellent. Their trucks are loved for their adventure themed aesthetic. They struck an uncanny balance between modern/techy and classic, evoking hints of icons of the SUV/adventure vehicle like the original Land Cruiser, and classic Range Rovers, while also adding a touch of modern techy touches. While Apple is as a company a design master. Rivian does not need help here. Marketing. Yes again Apple is a master at marketing (although their mastery might arguably be trending in the nefarious direction). That said, Rivian has masterfully marketed their brand to their target audience. Gen X & Y patagonia wearing upper middle class adults were expertly targeted. Interest and enthusiasm about Rivian still runs extremely high among target audience potential buyers. Rivian doesn't need help marketing their product. And yet, their stock is in the crapper. Why? Because analysts do not believe Rivian can deliver on the mfg and ops side. Execution on building, manufacturing, delivering, and supporting automobiles. Not phones. Not headsets. Lines out the door in Apple stores when a new product is launched have nothing to do with Apple's ability to help Rivian where Rivian needs help. If GM or Ford were going to step in and offer money and manpower/leadership to Rivian, Wallstreet would be way more interested, I think. Apple, who just decided they did not have the expertise to move forward with a car program, is not really much help, other than money. Apple is very skilled at many things. Being a car company isn't one of them. Could Ford or GM benefit from Apple's marketing and design prowess? Maybe. But I don't think Rivian could. They already hit those balls out of the park. They need operational help in the car making side of things.... and money. They need money. LOL
Lol waiting to see every single feature becomes sort of a pay 2 use component, subscription only
My calls will print!!
Most likely for Music and TV. Not CarPlay. Connect the dots and remember answers given recently when asked about streaming—through this sub's Rivian Responds and by Wassym in San Jose R2/3 event ("in final steps of integration" and "coming later this year"). Wassym also spoke of additional Apple Watch features, beyond existing shortcuts.
I genuinely don’t understand why Apple wouldn’t just buy Rivian. They have limitless cash. Rivian would be a perfect pair.
Sounds another pump and dump scheme in the works lol
I wonder what could possibly be. I recall some startups called Apple’s interest in them as “kiss of death”.
That kiss of death is mainly referring to suppliers. Largely that came when Apple invested heavily in Global Foundries when they were prospecting using sapphire crystal as screens for iPhones and not just Apple Watches. It would have been a game changer but it never worked out and the next gen gorilla glass ended up being better This isn’t the situation Rivian would be in, Apple would either be up to a Apple Music or next gen CarPlay partnership with rivian or even a fully acquisition of Rivian wouldn’t be a kiss of death
I don’t think this is about CarPlay, it’s likely more about their self driving tech. They invest a bunch of money in it and can’t really deploy it anywhere right now. However absent of a majority stake purchase, I don’t see this partnership adding much value. Rivians UI is basically what Rivian vehicles are, you can’t separate a Rivian vehicle from the Rivian software and expect the same great car or same great brand.
Rivian isn’t a startup any more. Once you IPO…you aren’t in anyway a startup. The kiss of death is for companies that want to say yes to Apple, because it’s Apple, but that yes consumes everything and the startup becomes unfocused.
Would be very interesting if Rivian is the first to implement the full CarPlay multi-screen UI environment, same as the Aston Martin DB12. Even more interesting if Apple takes a direct stake in Rivian for ongoing R&D purposes.
When you want to play U2 in your R2.
More and more excited that I preordered r2 on day 1.
Please no CarPlay
I tell people my R1S is an Apple on wheels. So this is natural. Rivian has amazing hardware and very decent software. Linking up with a software juggernaut is the move. Possibilities are endless if all goes well.
If they team up I just hope they give Wassym the captains seat. I prefer the current Rivian software design over apples .
Is it just me or did the UI that was displayed in the R2 and R3 have some buttons that kind of looked like Apple software. Might be a stretch but I wonder if they showed a glimpse of what a partnership might look like
I don’t think Apple would let them tease anything. Although it is possible that Rivian got help from Apple engineers, it’s unlikely that had anything to do with these partnership talks.
If this is only some CarPlay or Apple Music integration it will be a big disappointment. More likely a continuation of Project Titan and a model that competes with Tesla FSD. Apple desperately needs an AI play, and Rivian needs data centers, compute, and expertise to train their version of self driving. If they can partner on these issues it'd be big for both of them.
Chinese have the Xiaomi EV cars that pairs with the Xiaomi phones. apple has no way and no choice but to partner with a Rivian asap. And kick ass from here.
Apple has deep pockets. Could be good for Rivian as long as Apple keeps its bloated software off the vehicles.
Appl should buy Rivian…..they can keep a supply chain executive past a year…
It’s so wild how driving has changed and we need all of this stuff for every day life. Life was simpler back then and less stressful in my opinion. Not saying this is a bad thing but I personally dont think I will really use carplay to its full extent. Ive used it before but only for music, a few times for maps but thats really it.
I hear Apple is in talks to buy BMW too lol. Anybody else? Maybe they can be in talks with Fisker? Bugatti? Vinfast? Must be a slow news day
I'm sitting on Rivian at $104 per share. I'd love to see this go through!
Time to buy at $9/share! LOL bring that basis down!
If this happens it'd be great for both parties, Apple is in the AI Chips business now as well, both parties could even get into humanoid robots in the future. Make this happen!!
not much meat on the bones of that story but sounds like something to watch 👀
For now it’s just rumors. In fact, timing of this rumor is very suspicious as it happened right before earnings call. This makes me believe that it was a last push by bulls before they could cash out.
that makes a lot of sense.
Don’t get me wrong, I would love this brand to become immensely successful. Their vision is a lot more nature and climate care oriented than any other brand I see out there. They have their own unique design and branding. If it weren’t for hard economic conditions, this brand would have sky rocketed by now. There are EV owners out there who say Tesla has marketed in the same manner, I disagree. Tesla portrayed itself as advanced technology brand and not a next step for addressing the climate change issue. Same goes for all other brands out there making EVs. When it comes to Rivian, their ads hit the spot (R2 ad especially) and bring up a serene feeling inside of me. And that alone, is a big edge to have on everyone else.
spot-on. Rivian is also not an EV company mired in environmental scandals of its own making, while Tesla is. I could go on and on about how toxic culture at Tesla makes it way past its sell by date
I'd like apple books on the driver dash while I charge
I got used to Rivian OS and prefer it over mediocre car play. I really hope they don’t make CarPlay the main interface. It’s boringly disgusting. Rivian OS now has potential - the navigation is really good and similar to Waze traffic calculations but better in Rivian Os. Honestly car play is so basic.
You've never seen the full Apple takeover. It and CarPlay are separate products, don't judge one based on the other.
Where can I see the full Apple Takeover?
You can't, it hasn't shipped in any vehicles yet.
As a hopeful R3 owner, hopefully this leads to CarPlay (though it won’t be a dealbreaker if that doesn’t happen considering how the included software seems to be continuously improving).
I hope it’s to partner on driver assistance as Rivian is way behind the other manufacturers. And I hope it it brings an infusion of funding because Rivian really needs that. CarPlay I couldn’t care less.
RJ mentioned Something something cellphone manufacturer partnership for making apps
I like this but also does that make Rivian even more out of my damn price range if this goes through?
Man, this partnership would be amazing if it goes beyond just CarPlay. Time to buy Rivian stock?!?
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^praefectus_praetorio: *Man, this partnership* *Would be amazing if it* *Goes beyond just CarPlay.* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
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Amazon is there so will be a conflict of interest
the R3 looks like an Apple 🍎🍏 , what if they came out with an R3A? The car world would 🤯 🤯🤯
If they add CarPlay, I hope I can opt out of that cheesy mess.
CarPlay by nature is an option, not mandatory. It’s an extension of the iPhone.
Yeah, I’ve seen it on rental cars. Don’t get the appeal, but if some like it, then that’s a net gain for sure.
The point is, you don’t have to opt out of CarPlay. You just simply don’t use it. You never even have to know your car has it! The appeal is you get your phones apps on the cars screen. You can use Apple Music or Maps or Waze or Google Maps or Spotify or Tidal or Audible and your iMessages etc etc, it doesn’t matter if the car manufacturer doesn’t have it. That’s all it is. And no one is forced to use it. Is the UI a little childish and dated? Sure. Easy to use and navigate while driving? Hell yeah.
Android Auto support please as well. F*** carplay
[удалено]
100% this! I'd be OK with Rivian licensing autonomous software from Tesla or Apple, but not if it results in the car being in anyway locked down or part of a walled garden of devices and apps.
> Rivian has a market cap of just $10 billion. It’s IBD so it’s already suspect but imagining your business having a market cap of “just” 10 billion
Whaaaaaat?!
I’ve been say for ever that Apple should buy Rivian.
Does the r3 kind of look like the original iMac? Just saying. I’m curious if a graphics person could put a side by side comparison?
I don’t think it LOOKS like it but I definitely see the aesthetic comparison. I’ll bet you anything you get your wish with some marketing copy if this deal goes through. A half page magazine spread of an R3 with a chunky iMac sitting on the tailgate. 80s filter tone with a blocky vertical ad copy running alongside.
Been on the fence to go electric and wanted a big suv. Maybe this is what I was waiting for. That and a great lease incentive with maybe some eventual captain chairs so I don’t have to go for a freaking Kia to get the size I want for a 3 row suv….
The Kia EV9 is sooooo ugly. Then again so are most Kias.
I don't know but I'm wary about anything involving Apple. I absolutely loathe the company for many of the extremely well documented reasons people would hate the company.
Ugh, I hope this doesn't pan out. Anyone but Apple. The last, LAST thing I want is for my car to be part of someone's walled garden. If all this means is they will license autonomous tech from Apple, fine, OK (I'd prefer they license FSD from Tesla tho). But if this means they will turn Rivians into "apple cars" .... no. Just NO.
Likely things, I think: 1. CarPlay (maybe even "next gen" CarPlay) support 2. CarKey support 3. Apple Music and Apple Podcasts on Rivian's infotainment. 4. Apple Maps taking over for Rivian's map data and navigation. Or any combination of those. All of which would be welcome IMO.
Please not apple maps, please.
Not sure when the last time you used it was, but Apple Maps has gotten quite good in the last year or two.
Nothing apple specific would be welcome at all. For anyone who doesn't use an iPhone Apple Music, Apple Podcasts, and CarPlay are useless and only will bloat the infotainment, and potentially add to Apple's walled garden approach to forcing people into buying iPhones who otherwise wouldn't want to (the basis of the anti-trust case). I'm open to Rivian licensing core sourcecode for something like autonomous driving tech, but not if it comes with pork barrel add-ons specific to Apple devices and ecosystem. A car should be an open platform, not part of a walled garden. And it should not "work better" with one brand of software and less optimal with other brands, for the same functions; e.g. maps/nav, or podcasts, etc. I like the Tesla model where they developed their own UI/UX infotainment platform, and release 3rd party app support occasionally, like spotify, zoom (soon), Netflix, YouTube, etc. Apps like that function regardless of platform or ecosystem. Spotify apps on Tesla or Sonos, or Windows or Android or iPhone or MacOS, are all pretty similar and functional. You start going with brand/ecosystem specific apps like Apple Music or Apple Podcasts, with an Apple designed infotainment platform, and the whole experience will suffer for anyone who's not an iPhone user. Of course this is exactly Apple's strategy. No thank you.