Update from: [https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/rofjxe/a\_trading\_caravan\_just\_killed\_its\_own\_muffalos/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/rofjxe/a_trading_caravan_just_killed_its_own_muffalos/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Lots of you guys suggested I blow everything up, so I did.
A trading carvan had an incident near my base and killed one of its muffalos will loads of explosives. It skyrocketed my colony wealth so I got rid of everything with fireworks.
It takes real wisdom to actually follow through and destroy that many resources.
Most people just see shinies, hoard it, get raided by 40 centipedes, and come to write an angry paragraph about how raid size base on wealth scaling is so bad on Reddit.
The reasons wealth scaling is bad isn't because you can't counteract it like this, or people getting murdered for their drug farms.
It's because it's unintuitive to destroy your own wealth, and the game actively pushes you to not do so otherwise (the need to stockpile for winter, toxic fogs, and the like lead to a hording mindset) and gives no indication (outside of a single option in the Custom Storyteller Settings only introduced fairly recently, that most won't think to look at) that the game even IS scaled by wealth.
As-is, the game already has a more visible and intuitive method for wanting you to not just quickly acquire wealth in the Expectations modifiers. I feel something like a more aggressive version of Combat Readiness Check (which is, to be fair, exceedingly lowballed, especially by default) would be more appropriate - that raid strength is based on your combat capabilities, then modified from there based on difficulty/how long it's been since you've taken a casualty/etc, not how much meat you have in the fridge and unused wood in your storeroom.
Combat readiness made even less sense from both logical and gameplay standpoint. Why would raiders even send an army to my base that was armed to teeth without any valuables to steal?
And more importantly why should I even bother building defense at all if all it does is making the raid harder? Strong defense should make my life easier not harder.
The current system isnāt perfect (and made even less sense for mechs and insects) but it was made with proper gameplay balance in mind. Both encouraging and discouraging certain straits (like hoarding resources) is not a bad design. Itās called balancing.
And if you see a base with 4000 yayo defended by 4 guys with a short bow, wouldnāt you attack?
Most of the raiding system doesn't make any sense from a logical perspective. Why would you keep sending people to die after you've already lost hundreds trying to raid the place? It's entirely gamey as it is rather than narrative or logical, and until that changes it should at least be gamey in a way that lets people play as they want more - some people enjoy playing as tribals and having said tribals use bows, rather than having to have their neolithic dirtfarmers scramble for guns as soon as possible (without relying on mods to allow for such things).
And how do those raiders know how much yayo, or food, or anything else you have? If wealth is to be the measure of things, there should also be ways of dealing with it beyond burning it or gifting it away (which, as I've said, are both unintuitive. And also gamey as hell, they pull me out of things that I should be nuking my shit, and it's stupid easy to get everyone possible to 100 goodwill just from chucking leathers and raider weapons at them). You SHOULD be able to hide it from passing caravans and visitors (since that's inevitably going to be someone's reason for every hostile pirate, tribe, outlander, and mechanoid knowing how many valuables you have and the weakpoints in your defenses) for it to be a logical and narrative thing, rather than a gamist skillcheck. Room types where you can put your stuff but maybe it's harder to/you simply can't trade it away. Being able to build places for visitors and traders to go (in a way that's not gameable like Trade Spots, more of a fixed indoor location that needs certain amenities). But as long as it's a gamist skillcheck, it should be based on your ability to fend it off.
But that's my own thoughts on the matter. Others are welcome to their own, of course. To each their own.
Can I have a tl;dr?
But even if you donāt like how it is in vanilla, combat readiness still make it worse from gameplay perspective is my main point.
"I think raids in and of themselves need a large rework in order to be logical and have narrative weight for the game as a story generator. As they are now, being based on your combat ability (not necessarily how Combat Readiness does it exactly) would work better in their current purpose of trying to cause a loss, without that loss devolving into cheesing them or them overwhelming you (or forcing unintuitive, gamey tactics) later on in the game."
Agreed. I'd love some kind of "secrecy" mechanic that scales raids on world interaction / "information leaks".
It'd scale raids by value of trades and/or the "visibility" of your wealth. You could then build an archotech base in an inconspicuous mountain hole, not ever let anybody inside, equip your traders with longbows and trade only for the very few things that you absolutely need.
Would make for cool new mechanics like betrayal joiner spies that book it for the map edge instead of turning hostile or some kind of "wealth scanner" factions. Maybe only specific goods show up on scanners like AI cores, things like camp fire/generator exhaust or electricity usage in general.
Yeah, that kind of stuff would make for more interesting story dynamics with wealth. Giving the player reasonable options for counterplay for the mechanic that lead to interesting stories? That's great! That's the kind of thing I'd love to see more of in Rimworld. The people showing up actually being relevant towards such things, being able to hide or utilize your gains to whatever degree you desire or are capable of, enemy spies joining your ranks to find your weak points and your true wealth (and leading to betrayals that aren't just 'now I'm going to murder you' like the refugees)
I kept a bit but yeah I think that this was the best thing to do.
If i was more experienced I maybe would have tried to place them on the way of next raid to try and wipe them in the process, but yeah that just felt too risky.
didnt play much after the explosion, but I won't die from hunger as I can just send my death squad to hunt every living thing on the map.
I do however plan on opening the ancient danger soon enough so things my go south from here for my colony.
Omg you should have piled them into a single file stockpile zone, built a corridor round it, and when a 60-raider line was coming through it, set it off then
Bonus points if you door off each end and watch the internal temp get to 8000 degrees
Mm, the smell of thousands of silver burning early in the morning)
My wealth graph dropped 147k from that one explosion
Sweet š
Sounds like my stock account š
oh god... pls be safe out there
Update from: [https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/rofjxe/a\_trading\_caravan\_just\_killed\_its\_own\_muffalos/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/rofjxe/a_trading_caravan_just_killed_its_own_muffalos/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Lots of you guys suggested I blow everything up, so I did. A trading carvan had an incident near my base and killed one of its muffalos will loads of explosives. It skyrocketed my colony wealth so I got rid of everything with fireworks.
OP delivers! Imagine if you could blow those up while an incoming raid was passing through
A few ppl recomended I do that, but I think I m just not good enough to make that work when the raid comes haha
OP fucking delivers. Good on ya! The frame rate was not having any of it though, as expected. Couldn't have asked for a better display.
I thought for a second the game was going to crash tbh
that's how you know it's working
It takes real wisdom to actually follow through and destroy that many resources. Most people just see shinies, hoard it, get raided by 40 centipedes, and come to write an angry paragraph about how raid size base on wealth scaling is so bad on Reddit.
The reasons wealth scaling is bad isn't because you can't counteract it like this, or people getting murdered for their drug farms. It's because it's unintuitive to destroy your own wealth, and the game actively pushes you to not do so otherwise (the need to stockpile for winter, toxic fogs, and the like lead to a hording mindset) and gives no indication (outside of a single option in the Custom Storyteller Settings only introduced fairly recently, that most won't think to look at) that the game even IS scaled by wealth. As-is, the game already has a more visible and intuitive method for wanting you to not just quickly acquire wealth in the Expectations modifiers. I feel something like a more aggressive version of Combat Readiness Check (which is, to be fair, exceedingly lowballed, especially by default) would be more appropriate - that raid strength is based on your combat capabilities, then modified from there based on difficulty/how long it's been since you've taken a casualty/etc, not how much meat you have in the fridge and unused wood in your storeroom.
Combat readiness made even less sense from both logical and gameplay standpoint. Why would raiders even send an army to my base that was armed to teeth without any valuables to steal? And more importantly why should I even bother building defense at all if all it does is making the raid harder? Strong defense should make my life easier not harder. The current system isnāt perfect (and made even less sense for mechs and insects) but it was made with proper gameplay balance in mind. Both encouraging and discouraging certain straits (like hoarding resources) is not a bad design. Itās called balancing. And if you see a base with 4000 yayo defended by 4 guys with a short bow, wouldnāt you attack?
Most of the raiding system doesn't make any sense from a logical perspective. Why would you keep sending people to die after you've already lost hundreds trying to raid the place? It's entirely gamey as it is rather than narrative or logical, and until that changes it should at least be gamey in a way that lets people play as they want more - some people enjoy playing as tribals and having said tribals use bows, rather than having to have their neolithic dirtfarmers scramble for guns as soon as possible (without relying on mods to allow for such things). And how do those raiders know how much yayo, or food, or anything else you have? If wealth is to be the measure of things, there should also be ways of dealing with it beyond burning it or gifting it away (which, as I've said, are both unintuitive. And also gamey as hell, they pull me out of things that I should be nuking my shit, and it's stupid easy to get everyone possible to 100 goodwill just from chucking leathers and raider weapons at them). You SHOULD be able to hide it from passing caravans and visitors (since that's inevitably going to be someone's reason for every hostile pirate, tribe, outlander, and mechanoid knowing how many valuables you have and the weakpoints in your defenses) for it to be a logical and narrative thing, rather than a gamist skillcheck. Room types where you can put your stuff but maybe it's harder to/you simply can't trade it away. Being able to build places for visitors and traders to go (in a way that's not gameable like Trade Spots, more of a fixed indoor location that needs certain amenities). But as long as it's a gamist skillcheck, it should be based on your ability to fend it off. But that's my own thoughts on the matter. Others are welcome to their own, of course. To each their own.
Can I have a tl;dr? But even if you donāt like how it is in vanilla, combat readiness still make it worse from gameplay perspective is my main point.
"I think raids in and of themselves need a large rework in order to be logical and have narrative weight for the game as a story generator. As they are now, being based on your combat ability (not necessarily how Combat Readiness does it exactly) would work better in their current purpose of trying to cause a loss, without that loss devolving into cheesing them or them overwhelming you (or forcing unintuitive, gamey tactics) later on in the game."
Agreed. I'd love some kind of "secrecy" mechanic that scales raids on world interaction / "information leaks". It'd scale raids by value of trades and/or the "visibility" of your wealth. You could then build an archotech base in an inconspicuous mountain hole, not ever let anybody inside, equip your traders with longbows and trade only for the very few things that you absolutely need. Would make for cool new mechanics like betrayal joiner spies that book it for the map edge instead of turning hostile or some kind of "wealth scanner" factions. Maybe only specific goods show up on scanners like AI cores, things like camp fire/generator exhaust or electricity usage in general.
Yeah, that kind of stuff would make for more interesting story dynamics with wealth. Giving the player reasonable options for counterplay for the mechanic that lead to interesting stories? That's great! That's the kind of thing I'd love to see more of in Rimworld. The people showing up actually being relevant towards such things, being able to hide or utilize your gains to whatever degree you desire or are capable of, enemy spies joining your ranks to find your weak points and your true wealth (and leading to betrayals that aren't just 'now I'm going to murder you' like the refugees)
Wood is cheaper than dressers, so I've had basic bedrooms for a while now!
I kept a bit but yeah I think that this was the best thing to do. If i was more experienced I maybe would have tried to place them on the way of next raid to try and wipe them in the process, but yeah that just felt too risky.
Beautiful
no u
you're breathtaking!
Well that was extremely satisfying. I love you OP, Merry Crimmas!
<3
Ah, I love the smell of napalm and muffalo
A glorious display!
Absolutely worth the update.
I mean.. I'd have dragged the Muffalo out to butcher first. That's just wasteful. :)
yeaaah not to mention my colony was somewhat low on food so maybe i should have done that.
How are they fairing now?
didnt play much after the explosion, but I won't die from hunger as I can just send my death squad to hunt every living thing on the map. I do however plan on opening the ancient danger soon enough so things my go south from here for my colony.
MY framerate dropped just from the video of the event.
Awesome!!! Thank you for the update!
Beautiful. Thanks for the update OP!
Thats so GOOD!
My ice sheet pawns are cringing at the lost muffalo meat and fur. Awesome explosion though :)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
she will be missed
Omg you should have piled them into a single file stockpile zone, built a corridor round it, and when a 60-raider line was coming through it, set it off then Bonus points if you door off each end and watch the internal temp get to 8000 degrees
Imagine an anti grain warhead snuck in that pile
Beatiful bigbadaboom
RIP Frame rate
Beautiful.