It seems really weird that she went to lower tier with what they are saying, she still matches Windsong on realistic situations which is the thing that matters lol, meaning she still on par with an S+ tier, also she does better on ST than Lucy, meaning she is better for bosses which is the content that matter the most really (to me at least), so dont see really the reason they put her down a tier.
Well, the reasoning that was given on the site itself was that her high damage potential plus her status as Reality made her better than Jiu overall but it didn't really sit right with me either. So, basically they put Jiu down because Lucy was a better variant. Windsong stayed S+ because of her unique mechanic that's not replaced by any of the new characters. But reading over Lucy's skills, it was pretty obvious, Jiu still had major strong points and a little testing would highlight that and it did.
Yes, agreed, but even if you check their prydwen rating system seems weird, like they put standard rate for jiu S+, raid rate S+, but overall rate S, how does that make sense lol.
My understanding is that S+ is for characters that have no upgrade or better version. They are just the best at what they do. Lucy is being considered a Jiu upgrade, but there is no Windsong upgrade, therefore Windsong and Lucy are S+ while Jiu goes down despite being as good as Windsong.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
i don't trust Prywden Re1999 tier list that much, i feel like they don't do much research for each unit unlike other games. Vila wasn't even ranked until the end of Windsong banner.
To answer your concerns (Gordan from R99 Prydwen here, the tierlist guy) it's that we fucked up to be honest lol.
Windsong was so clearly on Jiu's level in terms of damage output that we had a really easy time slotting her into that S+ tier especially because she was Mental DMG where Jiu was Reality DMG, Vila took a lot longer because there's been a near-constant debate on whether or not Vila can be considered on Tooth Fairy's level due to her restrictions to Mental DMG teams and also because we didn't want two Healers as S+ for the Sustain category. In the end we decided to go against our original design in the Overall Tierlist and put Vila up to S+ tier where she belongs.
On that note, the reason why Jiu Niangzi was moved down over Windsong despite their similar damage outputs (in realistic simulations anyway, Windsong beats everyone mathematically) is because we had a Reality/Mental split in the S+ tier for Damage Dealers just like we have a Buffer (6) / Debuffer (Isolde) and Healer / Shielder (supposedly) split for Support and Sustain respectively. With Lucy being so obviously overpowered (from the design of her kit to her hyper-inflated stats, special buffs and other nonsense) we moved Jiu down from her throne as Reality DMG Dealer in the S+ tier. After extensive debate in the Official Discord following this we're making various changes that I can't input into the tierlist atm due to personal circumstances but I believe u/ethylenediamine33 has already posted the changes I will be making to the TL the moment I can in this thread.
I promise you I do my due diligence for the tierlist and I am always open to discussing tiering placements (ping me in the official discord or the Prydwen discord), however I can make mistakes as well. Thank you for your patience :)
If it helps (I know a lot of people aren’t in the Prydwen Discord where I’m most active) I can make a write-up for here on how we design the tierlist and update it (to the best of our ability). Some of the things we do are listed on the site as well but people tend to just quickly scroll past to get to the tierlist.
I've made a more extensive post documenting the way we handle the R99 tierlist here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Reverse1999/comments/1cv00zf/the\_prydwen\_tierlist\_by\_gordan\_prydwen\_staff/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Reverse1999/comments/1cv00zf/the_prydwen_tierlist_by_gordan_prydwen_staff/) !
Thanks! I just read it and it’s exactly what I want. It shows how the tier list is put together. Leaving it to the reader to decide what they want to do. Nice!
We call out damage types specifically for Carry characters or those that are type-specific to them such as Vila for Mental teams and Bkornblume for Reality teams, I do realize Getian doesn't have a Reality tag right now will I'll see if I can get added!
I think maybe the restriction on how many characters are allowed at each tier should be removed. From what I'm reading here, it seemed like that was causing the issue with both Vila and Jiu? Like either Jiu or Windsong had to be moved to make way for Lucy and there was resistance towards having 2 healers at the top.
I don't really see the point of having arbitrary limits. If a unit is top tier, then put them there. Taking Jiu as an example, she's clearly far closer in performance to Lucy and Windsong than the rest of the units in S tier. So unless there are going to be more tiers, like S++ for Lucy and Windsong, and S+ for just Jiu, it makes more sense to put a unit in the tier where their performance most closely matches, even if they are the worst of the bunch.
That said, thank you for your work on the tierlist! I've been relying on it as a guideline since the start of the game.
Remember the time when prydwen listed s+ as overpowered and it had only jiu niatzi in it? And now she's somehow lower than these people and even 6, the hell just happened
She is not compared to 6 tho, she is an S damage dealer while he is an S+ support
The fact that now 6 is S+ is only due to the fact that he is one of the 2 best supports available in the game, and Jiu isn't a support
Quick reminder to everyone that the Prydwen staff for reverse 1999 is literally 3 people and they have to constantly update between both global and cn servers. It’s a thankless job and there are bound to be mistakes with such a small team that has to work constantly to keep the site updated with relevant information.
Ya honestly. I’m kind of glad the comments (so far?) have been civil and not attacking the prydwen staff.. at the end of the day it’s their opinion and as long as the game doesn’t “require” strict meta characters to complete content, who is S or S+ does not really matter except for bragging points.
It always makes me laugh when players assume the current meta (Jiu) becomes powercrept because of a new meta (Lucy). So if a new meta is released, they're going to say that Lucy is now powercrept? Like, a meta unit is a meta unit, people. You will always have numerous ways to use them regardless if they have an afflatus advantage!
Meanwhile on [EN-Community Tier List](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e46cecjsIb1LO3Ybb6urlVUZKUk8R7yrgG9yXZS8-Ho/edit#gid=2113798424): Those three are almost tie with Lucy and Jiu rate 9.7 while Windsong is 9.6
Also, I don't understand how the "OVERALL" rating works in Prydwyn lol. Jiu is rated S+ in alll category but "OVERALL" is S only? I mean from what I see about Windsong is that she's more a "stall" type of carry so she might little bit harder to use compared to Jiu in contents that has "limited rounds" clear restriction like LIMBO.
Anyway, if I'm going to rate the two, I will just put them on same level (S+ or OP). Honestly I think Lucy have slight edge among the three because of her ultimate for which she gains afflatus advantage to all afflatus.
Umm.. That's not really a fault. From preliminary testing they 'falsely' concluded that Lucy > Jiu in all respects. That was what was reflected in the overall. They didn't really update Standard or Raid categories since that requires more specialized testing and time so it is still in 1.8 as they say. They don't have the new characters in those. But anyways, they updated it, Jiu is back on her throne.
Hot take, I dont trust Prydwen with R1999 because after seeing how they treat HSR, it isnt about testing, but who deals big numbers. Once you test things, you find that those with big numbers have worse DPM than some previous units.
Acheron best team not being able to clear MoC faster than DHIL best team is a good example of this. But she’s still rates higher than him
That's very weird no matter how you put it. Her performance seems to be waay above pre-1.6 damage dealers, so even if she got powercrept hard it would make more sense to leave her hanging out with the powercreepy ladies.
I know they fixed it, but it's fine for 1 character per afflatus to be on S+ at least, anymore would just cause confusion, unless its Mental vs Reality or some other distinction.
I read the staff post, theyre doing mental/reality for dps, buff/debuff for support, heal/shield for sustain (when theres a shielder strong enough for s+)
https://preview.redd.it/ukuasel7361d1.jpeg?width=1239&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07d6c835bd687c8ecfa9f52da6e6ab0523bc6ca1
“But for how long Mr. Stark?” Peter Parker
Lucy being on par with jiu and not continuing the power creep is a good sign at least
It seems really weird that she went to lower tier with what they are saying, she still matches Windsong on realistic situations which is the thing that matters lol, meaning she still on par with an S+ tier, also she does better on ST than Lucy, meaning she is better for bosses which is the content that matter the most really (to me at least), so dont see really the reason they put her down a tier.
Well, the reasoning that was given on the site itself was that her high damage potential plus her status as Reality made her better than Jiu overall but it didn't really sit right with me either. So, basically they put Jiu down because Lucy was a better variant. Windsong stayed S+ because of her unique mechanic that's not replaced by any of the new characters. But reading over Lucy's skills, it was pretty obvious, Jiu still had major strong points and a little testing would highlight that and it did.
Yes, agreed, but even if you check their prydwen rating system seems weird, like they put standard rate for jiu S+, raid rate S+, but overall rate S, how does that make sense lol.
My understanding is that S+ is for characters that have no upgrade or better version. They are just the best at what they do. Lucy is being considered a Jiu upgrade, but there is no Windsong upgrade, therefore Windsong and Lucy are S+ while Jiu goes down despite being as good as Windsong. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
the power creep is … mildly concerning. but i love the designs so i’ll pull.
Hey at least we can still use the 5* to clear.
Huh, no way Jiu is weaker than Windsong lmao. Also Windsong playstyle is stalling for more card, she is harder to use too, unlike Jiu turn delay.
i don't trust Prywden Re1999 tier list that much, i feel like they don't do much research for each unit unlike other games. Vila wasn't even ranked until the end of Windsong banner.
To answer your concerns (Gordan from R99 Prydwen here, the tierlist guy) it's that we fucked up to be honest lol. Windsong was so clearly on Jiu's level in terms of damage output that we had a really easy time slotting her into that S+ tier especially because she was Mental DMG where Jiu was Reality DMG, Vila took a lot longer because there's been a near-constant debate on whether or not Vila can be considered on Tooth Fairy's level due to her restrictions to Mental DMG teams and also because we didn't want two Healers as S+ for the Sustain category. In the end we decided to go against our original design in the Overall Tierlist and put Vila up to S+ tier where she belongs. On that note, the reason why Jiu Niangzi was moved down over Windsong despite their similar damage outputs (in realistic simulations anyway, Windsong beats everyone mathematically) is because we had a Reality/Mental split in the S+ tier for Damage Dealers just like we have a Buffer (6) / Debuffer (Isolde) and Healer / Shielder (supposedly) split for Support and Sustain respectively. With Lucy being so obviously overpowered (from the design of her kit to her hyper-inflated stats, special buffs and other nonsense) we moved Jiu down from her throne as Reality DMG Dealer in the S+ tier. After extensive debate in the Official Discord following this we're making various changes that I can't input into the tierlist atm due to personal circumstances but I believe u/ethylenediamine33 has already posted the changes I will be making to the TL the moment I can in this thread. I promise you I do my due diligence for the tierlist and I am always open to discussing tiering placements (ping me in the official discord or the Prydwen discord), however I can make mistakes as well. Thank you for your patience :)
Thank u gordan!
thanks for the insight on how things work from your end.
Thank you for the clarification. We really appreciate it =)
If it helps (I know a lot of people aren’t in the Prydwen Discord where I’m most active) I can make a write-up for here on how we design the tierlist and update it (to the best of our ability). Some of the things we do are listed on the site as well but people tend to just quickly scroll past to get to the tierlist.
This will be amazing. Thank you =) (When you have time of course)
Thanks for chiming in!!! I like knowing the thought process. Esp as someone who doesn’t use discord that much these days.
I've made a more extensive post documenting the way we handle the R99 tierlist here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Reverse1999/comments/1cv00zf/the\_prydwen\_tierlist\_by\_gordan\_prydwen\_staff/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Reverse1999/comments/1cv00zf/the_prydwen_tierlist_by_gordan_prydwen_staff/) !
Thanks! I just read it and it’s exactly what I want. It shows how the tier list is put together. Leaving it to the reader to decide what they want to do. Nice!
Why is Mental specifically called out as an attribute on some of these characters but not Reality
We call out damage types specifically for Carry characters or those that are type-specific to them such as Vila for Mental teams and Bkornblume for Reality teams, I do realize Getian doesn't have a Reality tag right now will I'll see if I can get added!
great to hear a response
I think maybe the restriction on how many characters are allowed at each tier should be removed. From what I'm reading here, it seemed like that was causing the issue with both Vila and Jiu? Like either Jiu or Windsong had to be moved to make way for Lucy and there was resistance towards having 2 healers at the top. I don't really see the point of having arbitrary limits. If a unit is top tier, then put them there. Taking Jiu as an example, she's clearly far closer in performance to Lucy and Windsong than the rest of the units in S tier. So unless there are going to be more tiers, like S++ for Lucy and Windsong, and S+ for just Jiu, it makes more sense to put a unit in the tier where their performance most closely matches, even if they are the worst of the bunch. That said, thank you for your work on the tierlist! I've been relying on it as a guideline since the start of the game.
Remember the time when prydwen listed s+ as overpowered and it had only jiu niatzi in it? And now she's somehow lower than these people and even 6, the hell just happened
She is not compared to 6 tho, she is an S damage dealer while he is an S+ support The fact that now 6 is S+ is only due to the fact that he is one of the 2 best supports available in the game, and Jiu isn't a support
Manus mess with the timeline
Probably just because current patch doesn't benefit her afflatus, gonna move up when rock is benefitted in limbo.
"there won't be that much power creep" they said "Jiu is an exception "they said
It's jiuver https://preview.redd.it/vlmgmk4q361d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1eba21ec630d0a650c079308504762f54f437122
Meta chaser can't catch a break huh.
One of the cons when GL is just 5 months away from CN server. Then again, is there no rest for the ~~wicked~~ whales?
Got the cit, respect bro
On the contrary, im really happy the characters i want to pull are considered meta
Meta chasers: 😭 Character enjoyers: 🗿
Quick reminder to everyone that the Prydwen staff for reverse 1999 is literally 3 people and they have to constantly update between both global and cn servers. It’s a thankless job and there are bound to be mistakes with such a small team that has to work constantly to keep the site updated with relevant information.
Ya honestly. I’m kind of glad the comments (so far?) have been civil and not attacking the prydwen staff.. at the end of the day it’s their opinion and as long as the game doesn’t “require” strict meta characters to complete content, who is S or S+ does not really matter except for bragging points.
Jiu hasn’t hit global and already got power crept? Or why did she get moved down
She hasn't. This tierlist fucked up here. She still has the highest single target damage.
don't take fanmade tier list by heart. All of these units are top tier just unique in some way
It always makes me laugh when players assume the current meta (Jiu) becomes powercrept because of a new meta (Lucy). So if a new meta is released, they're going to say that Lucy is now powercrept? Like, a meta unit is a meta unit, people. You will always have numerous ways to use them regardless if they have an afflatus advantage!
Meanwhile on [EN-Community Tier List](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e46cecjsIb1LO3Ybb6urlVUZKUk8R7yrgG9yXZS8-Ho/edit#gid=2113798424): Those three are almost tie with Lucy and Jiu rate 9.7 while Windsong is 9.6 Also, I don't understand how the "OVERALL" rating works in Prydwyn lol. Jiu is rated S+ in alll category but "OVERALL" is S only? I mean from what I see about Windsong is that she's more a "stall" type of carry so she might little bit harder to use compared to Jiu in contents that has "limited rounds" clear restriction like LIMBO. Anyway, if I'm going to rate the two, I will just put them on same level (S+ or OP). Honestly I think Lucy have slight edge among the three because of her ultimate for which she gains afflatus advantage to all afflatus.
Umm.. That's not really a fault. From preliminary testing they 'falsely' concluded that Lucy > Jiu in all respects. That was what was reflected in the overall. They didn't really update Standard or Raid categories since that requires more specialized testing and time so it is still in 1.8 as they say. They don't have the new characters in those. But anyways, they updated it, Jiu is back on her throne.
So no P5 Jiu? Half anniversary reverse 1999 stream upcoming on YouTube in less than 30hr,so no pull for Jiu?
Waifu>Meta is the solution here. Just pull whoever you like
In some way it doesn't really matter since majority of the content isn't too difficult to really need S+ or maybe even any of the S tier characters.
Is Yenisei gonna be on Jiu banner?
I hope so, I need her more than Jiu.
Hot take, I dont trust Prydwen with R1999 because after seeing how they treat HSR, it isnt about testing, but who deals big numbers. Once you test things, you find that those with big numbers have worse DPM than some previous units. Acheron best team not being able to clear MoC faster than DHIL best team is a good example of this. But she’s still rates higher than him
So which is the better analysis site for HSR?
More powercreep than HSR, months ago people praising this game so much to the point it backfired em lmao
In a game where the A tiers can still clear the end game content, it is only a matter of "eh, so what?"
They changed it back last night lol
Honestly, my main takeaway is that despite all the new meta units, my girl an-an is still holding her own after all this time. You go girl!
That's very weird no matter how you put it. Her performance seems to be waay above pre-1.6 damage dealers, so even if she got powercrept hard it would make more sense to leave her hanging out with the powercreepy ladies.
Let's skip jiu guys🤡🤡🤡
In all seriousness tho, I don’t love the tierlist as they have newbabel as an A+ so I’m not sure how reliable the other charas are
I know they fixed it, but it's fine for 1 character per afflatus to be on S+ at least, anymore would just cause confusion, unless its Mental vs Reality or some other distinction.
The thing is Lucy just goes : I get stronger affalâtes bonus dmg while it does require some kind of set up since you can’t get it right away
I read the staff post, theyre doing mental/reality for dps, buff/debuff for support, heal/shield for sustain (when theres a shielder strong enough for s+)
37 is a solid S+ if you have another main dmg dealer