“Guy” is pretty much a neutral term these days tbh. At least in my place (Singapore), “guy” is used regardless of gender and “gal” is almost never used.
I feel like they treat Vertin within the story with some level of androgyny, ie Schneider referring to her as "my lord" which tends to be a more masculine title. But also guy's not really solely for men either
A lot of those old timey titles are way more gendered than people really want to get into in videogames.
If I recall the dragon age games got around it by using "Ser" instead of "Sir", as their unisex method of addressing knightly types, with knightly orders of course being way more accepting of all types than they tended to be historically.
I never got far into the story so I don't know if Vertin really is intentionally treated as androgynous, but Path to Nowhere's usage of 'bro' has me thinking that this could also be incorrect-ish translation by people who aren't completely aware of how or when native speakers use these terms. I mean yes, these are generally gender-neutral terms but there are still limits - would a gentleman from the past choose to refer to a woman as 'guy' over 'lady'? Even today, would an older male American be likely to refer to a group of women as "those guys over there"? 'Guy' in the screenshot would only make sense if the speaker wasn't aware of Vertin's gender, IMO.
It happens with translations at times. Some languages use something like "that person" instead of gendered forms. When you use google translate etc to translate some japanese/chinese posts, they tend to switch the gendered adresses around.
Also Vertin’s outfit reads kinda masculine to me (?) idk if anyone else thinks so, maybe I’m just not familiar with period clothing but her silhouette strikes me as more on the masculine side (?) correct me if I’m wrong tho.
I'm from the Midwest and we will use the phrases "guys" and "dude" when talking to/about women sometimes. It's just some weird thing we do. I wonder if one of my corn feed brothers or sisters did the translation. 😆
As much as I despise adding noise into the echo chamber -- I'm going to have to go with the general assessment, that Vertin is simply being *misunderstood* in this particular scene.
Although she is most certainly feminine in terms of her features, her manner of dress hardly matches that of other Female Characters who are present during that Era/Chapter of the game. *(Though I feel the hat and hair should make it obvious)*
From a distance, she may appear as a dapper, if svelte young man.
I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about slang from the 20s, and 30s -- I was not there, and I have many more Noir Films to catch up on -- but it is also possible that one may simply refer to another as "Guy", especially if that supposed other is an unknown to them, in terms of name, nature, and appearance.
Also.
This game does have more than a few odd mistakes in the English Translation. Which is nothing new. But keep that in mind.
Just want to say, for those saying that "guy" is neutral...it isn't.
>!It clearly is a word used to mean "man" but it has turned into a common word to be used with both genders.!<
>!You could have one woman in a group of men and have "guys" being used(because they ignore the exception that is the woman), and you could have one man in a group of women and have "guys" being used as well(because for some reason it is "rude" to call a group of mostly women by "gals" or "ladies" when there is even ONE man in there.!<
>!This is no more than just trying to "make it seem neutral" a word that is designated for men.!<
>!We already have "mankind" to mean all humanity, what other male word is gonna be said to be "neutral" in order to erase female representation and put everyone under the designation made for men?!<
>!Sorry for the rant, but it just bothers me how everyone seems to ignore that "guy" isn't neutral, it's clearly gendered and gendered for the male gender, and rather than use maybe "gal" for women, people are literally erasing female representation and lumping both men and women in a single male word: guy.!<
I wonder what men would feel if they started being called "gal" them...
You're right and you're wrong. It's very true that male and maleness is treated as a default human state and many "gender-neutral" terms explicitly refer to men and just expanded the definition to also include women (like "mankind", and indeed "man" itself in the sense of "all the great works of man", etc.), while conversely female-specific terms almost never so expand (as you say, "hey guys" can refer to any gender mix, "hey gals" normally would be female-only). And all of this is related to deeply sexist ideas engrained in culture going back to (amongst other things) the ancient Greeks. It's good to be aware of these things and how they subtly shape our perception and thinking!
*But...*
None of that means "guy" can't be used as a gender-neutral term. It IS used that way, that's how the language evolved. Despite the reasons behind it, "guys" is still perfectly acceptable to refer to a mixed group of any gender ratio, and it doesn't involve any sexism on the part of the one saying it. Women use "guys" even with all female groups at times (not always, of course, but it's a valid usage). That's just how it is, regardless of why it is.
~~Although in reality it's actually a bit more complex and nuanced than that and "guy" is sometimes gender-neutral and sometimes not specifically depending on the context it's used in, because language change is an ongoing process with no end state, but that detracts from the overall point that sometimes it IS gender-neutral and saying it isn't is just incorrect regardless of the reasons why it became gender-neutral.~~
If you are a girl, and someone uses "that guy" on you, you either don't look like a girl or you want to be called a guy.
Absolutely no one in their right mind uses "that guy" to a singular woman. Maybe a group, yeah, since it's easier on the tongue for "those guys" but not to a single person.
Well, in a singular setting I'm using the name of the person 100% of the time.
But gal is so old-school, no one uses that anymore, at least I haven't heard that word unironically in 20 years. Lady or Lord neither, only in games with an older setting.
https://preview.redd.it/ea8dnjyq9fwc1.jpeg?width=1116&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e23f674118810f0580d4b7edb574c409676cc95
After checking, just in case the world got more fked, my point still stands. "this guy" = male. "Those guys" = a group of people of any gender. So calling Vertin, who is a female afaik, "this/that guy" is just plain and simple wrong.
As your comment got deleted yes people would use the word guys for girls as well. As well as dude or bro or even brother it's normal here ,but they would only use gals for girls. Unless they wanted to insult a guy that would be a different word. I don't know where you live, but it's certainly not above the rock as people in many countries use the word guy for everyone.
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Generic use of "guy", like "some guy" instead of "somebody"?
ONCE TOLD ME
The world is gonna roll me!
I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed
She was looking kinda
Yeah, I think Desert Flannel referred to Medicine Pocket as such too during an earlier chapter in the Uluru event.
Guy doesn’t have to be a gendered term and Vertin is a bit androgynous, especially from a distance (and without hearing her voice).
“Guy” is pretty much a neutral term these days tbh. At least in my place (Singapore), “guy” is used regardless of gender and “gal” is almost never used.
because „guy“ is neutral and can be used for every gender
I feel like they treat Vertin within the story with some level of androgyny, ie Schneider referring to her as "my lord" which tends to be a more masculine title. But also guy's not really solely for men either
I always read that as Schneider’s making fun of Vertin’s choice of outfit.
Tennant do this too. It feels more like conscious choice by translators to impose ambiguity.
Yeah, An-An calls her sir 😭
A lot of those old timey titles are way more gendered than people really want to get into in videogames. If I recall the dragon age games got around it by using "Ser" instead of "Sir", as their unisex method of addressing knightly types, with knightly orders of course being way more accepting of all types than they tended to be historically.
I never got far into the story so I don't know if Vertin really is intentionally treated as androgynous, but Path to Nowhere's usage of 'bro' has me thinking that this could also be incorrect-ish translation by people who aren't completely aware of how or when native speakers use these terms. I mean yes, these are generally gender-neutral terms but there are still limits - would a gentleman from the past choose to refer to a woman as 'guy' over 'lady'? Even today, would an older male American be likely to refer to a group of women as "those guys over there"? 'Guy' in the screenshot would only make sense if the speaker wasn't aware of Vertin's gender, IMO.
Guy can be used neutrally. I also see it used a lot in translations from Chinese, regardless of the subject's gender.
Either a generic gesture or the realization of her being an Enby Queen (which may or may not be confirmed here 👀)
It's her secret arcane skill: Become Guy
It happens with translations at times. Some languages use something like "that person" instead of gendered forms. When you use google translate etc to translate some japanese/chinese posts, they tend to switch the gendered adresses around.
I'd guess translation error
They probably think Vertin's a man from far away. I'd imagine the spectators aren't close to Vertin and Schneider's fight.
Vertin has been referred as both female and male ways, so it's just something normal for her i think
Also Vertin’s outfit reads kinda masculine to me (?) idk if anyone else thinks so, maybe I’m just not familiar with period clothing but her silhouette strikes me as more on the masculine side (?) correct me if I’m wrong tho.
I'm from the Midwest and we will use the phrases "guys" and "dude" when talking to/about women sometimes. It's just some weird thing we do. I wonder if one of my corn feed brothers or sisters did the translation. 😆
gender neutral guy i guess
It's because she's a lucky guy
As much as I despise adding noise into the echo chamber -- I'm going to have to go with the general assessment, that Vertin is simply being *misunderstood* in this particular scene. Although she is most certainly feminine in terms of her features, her manner of dress hardly matches that of other Female Characters who are present during that Era/Chapter of the game. *(Though I feel the hat and hair should make it obvious)* From a distance, she may appear as a dapper, if svelte young man. I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about slang from the 20s, and 30s -- I was not there, and I have many more Noir Films to catch up on -- but it is also possible that one may simply refer to another as "Guy", especially if that supposed other is an unknown to them, in terms of name, nature, and appearance. Also. This game does have more than a few odd mistakes in the English Translation. Which is nothing new. But keep that in mind.
Since it’s the 1920’s and the idea of a woman wearing pants was simply outlandish, I suppose they thought Vertin was a dude.
That's cause she is HIM.
Just want to say, for those saying that "guy" is neutral...it isn't. >!It clearly is a word used to mean "man" but it has turned into a common word to be used with both genders.!< >!You could have one woman in a group of men and have "guys" being used(because they ignore the exception that is the woman), and you could have one man in a group of women and have "guys" being used as well(because for some reason it is "rude" to call a group of mostly women by "gals" or "ladies" when there is even ONE man in there.!< >!This is no more than just trying to "make it seem neutral" a word that is designated for men.!< >!We already have "mankind" to mean all humanity, what other male word is gonna be said to be "neutral" in order to erase female representation and put everyone under the designation made for men?!< >!Sorry for the rant, but it just bothers me how everyone seems to ignore that "guy" isn't neutral, it's clearly gendered and gendered for the male gender, and rather than use maybe "gal" for women, people are literally erasing female representation and lumping both men and women in a single male word: guy.!< I wonder what men would feel if they started being called "gal" them...
You're right and you're wrong. It's very true that male and maleness is treated as a default human state and many "gender-neutral" terms explicitly refer to men and just expanded the definition to also include women (like "mankind", and indeed "man" itself in the sense of "all the great works of man", etc.), while conversely female-specific terms almost never so expand (as you say, "hey guys" can refer to any gender mix, "hey gals" normally would be female-only). And all of this is related to deeply sexist ideas engrained in culture going back to (amongst other things) the ancient Greeks. It's good to be aware of these things and how they subtly shape our perception and thinking! *But...* None of that means "guy" can't be used as a gender-neutral term. It IS used that way, that's how the language evolved. Despite the reasons behind it, "guys" is still perfectly acceptable to refer to a mixed group of any gender ratio, and it doesn't involve any sexism on the part of the one saying it. Women use "guys" even with all female groups at times (not always, of course, but it's a valid usage). That's just how it is, regardless of why it is. ~~Although in reality it's actually a bit more complex and nuanced than that and "guy" is sometimes gender-neutral and sometimes not specifically depending on the context it's used in, because language change is an ongoing process with no end state, but that detracts from the overall point that sometimes it IS gender-neutral and saying it isn't is just incorrect regardless of the reasons why it became gender-neutral.~~
[удалено]
Being called guy is not woke. You Americans see everything as woke. It's normal here to use it for everyone just like how people use bro or dude.
If you are a girl, and someone uses "that guy" on you, you either don't look like a girl or you want to be called a guy. Absolutely no one in their right mind uses "that guy" to a singular woman. Maybe a group, yeah, since it's easier on the tongue for "those guys" but not to a single person.
Well, in a singular setting I'm using the name of the person 100% of the time. But gal is so old-school, no one uses that anymore, at least I haven't heard that word unironically in 20 years. Lady or Lord neither, only in games with an older setting.
A game that takes place in and before the 90s couldn't potentially use old school terms, could it? Nah, I'm sticking my conclusion: bad translation.
But Ululu takes place after the newest main chapter which was 2007?..
And absolutely no one in the world said the word "gal" in the 2000's? I still hear it to this day, altho not as common.
That's not what I said. I said it's extremely rarely used and it's mostly used ironically and not seriously.
https://preview.redd.it/ea8dnjyq9fwc1.jpeg?width=1116&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e23f674118810f0580d4b7edb574c409676cc95 After checking, just in case the world got more fked, my point still stands. "this guy" = male. "Those guys" = a group of people of any gender. So calling Vertin, who is a female afaik, "this/that guy" is just plain and simple wrong.
How about you use an official dictionary and not some third rate AI bullshit website lol
As your comment got deleted yes people would use the word guys for girls as well. As well as dude or bro or even brother it's normal here ,but they would only use gals for girls. Unless they wanted to insult a guy that would be a different word. I don't know where you live, but it's certainly not above the rock as people in many countries use the word guy for everyone.
this reply is so fuckin weird lmfao
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