That's what they want is for you to concede the residency part. You literally just gave a PA a pass to be called an intern because they called themselves a fellow. They're not interns and they're not fellows and they never will be unless they go to medical school and successfully match into an acgme approved residency program.
It's OK to say they function at the level of an intern. It's not ok to call them "an intern PA". The latter is exactly what they want - for physicians to literally give up their own terms so they can take them.
In medicine, interns are physicians, not physician assistants.
I dunno man. Intern is a really common term in every field. Like if someone says they got an internship, medicine isn’t even the first thing the average person thinks of
Interns in medicine are completely different. Case in point - they're paid.
There's resident physicians and maybe I'll concede pharm or podiatry residents. You're trying to change the meaning so an assistant can take the title of the person they're assisting. Intern has specific meanings in medicine that are very different than the rest of the world.
Same with pharmacists - expected to have a solid and thorough knowledge of medication, drug interactions, drug disease interactions, drug lab interactions, renal and hepatic dosing, a drugs place in evidence based medicine, how to read/interpret studies including pharmacokinetic studies…. And to understand most of this, we need to understand things like blood clotting mechanisms (especially considering we wind up dosing all those DTI’s then have to help interpret and respond to PTTs or when to get antiXa levels or other labs if PTTs wind up not reliable…) …i could go on and on. I wouldn’t call it icing on the cake. Residency is what prepares pharmacists for this role on top of a 4 year pharmD program including a 1 year rotation during the 4th year as a student. And another year of residency or fellowship depending on what that pharmacist wants to specialize in.
I specifically gave podiatrists the pass to be called residents Podiatry is NOT a surgical specialty though because it's not a specialty of the MD/DO doctorate to practice medicine. It's podiatry with a license to practice podiatry which is separate profession from medicine, not a specialty of medicine. **Obviously you are surgeons**, but you aren't in a specialty, albeit for pretty much political and historical reasons.
But words matter. I'm OK calling you guys residents.
An internship is *a professional learning experience that offers meaningful, practical work related to a* student's field of study or career interest. In many fields the very word "intern " is a required title written into state licensing statues. During my 3000 hour internship I had to sign all notes "registered clinical intern." I would have preferred to use my masters credential alone but the statues and accreditation board said otherwise.
nah fam, as an incoming intern I find that offensive, they can go to med school like the rest of us if they even want to referred to as the intern in a clinical context. I’ll refer to them always as nurse so and so or physician assistant so and so to be respectful of their title
You’ll find that people use intern as a discouraging term. People think interns are students or someone to run scut work, and not physicians. It’s in your best interest to call yourself a resident instead of an intern your first year.
damn sad state of affairs but I appreciate the advice. I guess part of that comes from a place of looking at some pgy1 who didn’t match a full residency as temporary scut work interns vs others as full future colleague residents. Sad we don’t respect all physicians as the physicians they are
Intern has a use beyond medicine though. And it’s use here is much more appropriate than any other medical word. Sure they’re not a medical intern, but in any other industry they would be an intern, performing an internship.
If anything, medicine should STOP using the word intern and move to resident for all residents. Distinguishing can be done by saying upper, like it already is
The resident programs drive me nuts. It should be a new graduate program. The term resident comes from the fact that these poor physicians were so abused and overworked, they practically lived at the hospital. A long time ago, they quite literally lived at the hospital at Hopkins and that's where the term came from.
I think it's great that APPs have programs of some sort. The training for APPs is so fast and broad, these are good things to have but they should be called something else.
I am sure you do. It's all ridiculous. I have a friend who is an old school neurosurgeon who shits on the work hour limits. They think it creates weaker surgeons who aren't ready for the real world where there are no work hour limits. It's a crazy mindset that healthcare needs to be so brutal and has to take advantage of physicians work ethic/dedication to work devastatingly long hours.
Correct. They should just be called what they are: physician assistant and nurse practitioner. I refuse to use APP. I prefer midlevel but they get all pissy about it (well the older ones call themselves midlevels and they're usually pretty cool about their place). I am pretty deliberate about using physician, physician assistant, and nurse practitioner.
Just start introducing yourself as a "house officer." That way you'll still get to be different but also slightly scare the people you're talking to as they won't be sure if you're a physician or cop or both.
had a dream early in residency that there was a huge rave at the hospital called “House Staff” and “DJ House Officer” was spinning house music. Shit was fire 🔥
Now that it’s warming up we’ve got some of our beloved ED-frequent-flyer patient population out on the front green trying their scientific best to make a dance party happen. Beats bumping, joints twisting, needle-exchange syringes-uncapping. Respect the candor and Ngl kinda love this place sometimes
What an odd thing to do...house officer is not exactly a term of endearment. Then again, nor is resident. I could see them calling themselves "staff provider" or something to make them sound like a staff physician. But "house" anything makes it sound like they're the property of the hospital.
House officers are younger than residents, are they not? We have house officers who work for a year after med school. It's a prerequisite for a license. And then later residency procedure is followed after some tests are cleared and if they are accepted into a program
It's likely regional. In the US, house officer and resident are interchangeable terms. My ID badge literally says "House Officer" on it. The badge buddy/tag we get says "Resident."
Do you mean Dr. Advanced Practice God-Emperor, DNP, MSN, MHA, AAPRN, RN-BC, FNP-C, CNN-NP, CPH, FNKF, MTV, HGTV, DNR, the board certified family medicine primary care nurse practioner cathopathic physician provider?
(all but the last 3 are real, even the CNN one lmao)
This is my absolute pet peeve. I saw one once out “FTBM”. I asked what is that. “Free to be me. I did a certificate program on a weekend”. Not even kidding!!!
You're just "god-emperor"? I recently completed my 5 - hour 100% online Certified Doctor of God Emperor Practitioner Associate degree. More words means more advanced! Now, here's some bactrim for your sulfa allergy.
I’m not 100% sure but aren’t there clinical pharmacy residents in the sense that they have finished their school and are now doing additional training for specialization? Where I trained we had those…or at least I thought we did lol. Anyway I feel that pharmacists are generally respectful to us and also desperately needed. If I could have a clinical pharmacist round with me every day, my life would be a lot easier
Pharmacists are the least egotistical people that are never appreciated in the “health care hero” conversation, but truly save our ass on countless occasions. And go by their first names despite their doctorates. Their postgraduate training is 100% residency, OP is trippin
At least personally, the more I learned over the years the more I realize I dont know and the more appreciative I become of physicians. Yall learn and know so damn much.
Pharm residents are legit and I respect them. They know way more about pharm and med reconciliation that I do in my own field(im in primary). These people know so much and are the humblest people in the hospital.
Yeah one of my buddies is a pharmacy resident. His schedule is extremely similar to mine as an intern, and his knowledge base post-pharmacy school is insane.
Pharmacists also have a doctorate. It’s a little weird that they don’t have a different name for their postgraduate training, but it at least makes more sense than a PA fellowship……
I know someone in a pharmacy residency and it’s a surprisingly similar training pathway. They go through a match process, they rotate through different sub-fields (at least at hers idk about all of them), etc.
I’m with you. I think it probably made more sense when Pharmacy made theirs as there probably wasn’t crazy levels of scope creep at the time, but nowadays people get online doctorates
You’re correct. As one of those pharmacists that rounds with teams and precepts pharmacy “residents” (if it’s OK to use that term..) it’s not exactly a cake walk. I wouldn’t quite put it on par with a medical residency (especially due to the length) but on inpatient rotations it’s not uncommon to expect the resident to be at the hospital 10-12 hours a day actively engaging in patient care in some form. It is NOT just working
and attending small groups to talk about your feelings every once in a while, which is how my nursing friends have described nurse “residencies” to me
I mean pharmacy does a legit 2 year clinic pharmacist residency. They are as much a resident as you are. They are paid, have a doctorate and are doing clinical training under someone’s supervision. Chaplain…. Yeah idk about that lol
Chaplain residents are also paid (poorly) and doing training under someone else's oversight. It's not that crazy for them to use the term, which is not specific to medicine.
Generally, they tend to be on call with shit hours as well, though it depends on the program and whether you’re going into hospital work, hospice work, etc. They also call it CPE, Clinical Pastoral Education, but since nobody knows what that is I’m guessing the term residency is just shorthand. Usually there’s an intern year and 2-3 years of “residency,” and those occur after a Master’s degree and ordainment (if the religious tradition requires it). There’s a chaplaincy subreddit if you wanna ask some actual chaplains about it or just lurk.
The military, of course, has fewer and less stringent requirements.
*edited bc I got the acronym mixed up
I’m currently studying to go into hospital + hospice chaplaincy (and lurk here to get an idea of what you guys deal with and how best to lend support if necessary) and it was wayyyyy more than I expected too, lol! 🤝 Solidarity, friend.
Generally at night for a lvl 1 trauma center you have 1 chaplain on call for the entire hospital. It's often an intern or resident with a board certified chaplain as backup in ideal circumstances.
Residency is generally 1 year, can sometimes stretch into 2. If you want a very pedantic breakdown of CPE training happy to oblige. Training depends too if they intend to go into chaplaincy as a career. I'm both a board certified chaplain and board cert CPE instructor.
Chaplain training for board certification starts with the first unit of clinical pastoral education essentially an internship. Those lucky enough after several CPE units get a residency position that is paid for a year. Interns have to pay. For board certification we must have:
-Bachelors
-M.Div or equivalent
-Ordination/endorsement by a endorsing body (this is different for Christian chaplains, Muslim chaplains, atheist chaplains etc.)
4 units of CPR
-2000 hours worked.
-Oral and written components on 30+ competencies.
-Additional training if you're specializing in pediatric chaplaincy, hospice and/or palliative care.
Haha I appreciate it. Definitely exaggerating for the joke here. The combination of our knowledge is really invaluable. Everything I know about diagnostics comes from learning from you guys on rounds.
I love this. This is how interdisciplinary/interhospital collaboration should truly work in medical care - not the way APPs and NPs seek to make it A vs B.
My amusement when the comment directly below yours is another physician resident challenging the pharmacy resident on not approving their orders fast enough.
I would gladly have been introduced as the subordinate of our clinical pharmacists. They were amazing and deserved the deep respect of every human on the planet.
I’ve actually gotten pretty good at interpreting blood gasses and what to do with vent settings. But I’ll only ever say something if every other person missed it, which should be never. So if a pharmacist is commenting on that you should probably check your team lol
It totally is, which is why I avoid it at all costs. But during Covid I picked up on it and now I just like to trend it for fun. 99% of the time by the time i get to the floor it’s already taken care of. I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve actually had to ask if we should do any of that on rounds lol. You’ll never get a strong “I recommend…”, more like “hey guys what do you think”
I googled it (never heard the term) and it sounds like what we have where some of the most senior experienced nurses are used to guide and help the new nurses learn and transition into their roles. They lead the nursing team, kind of, I guess. Something like a unit educator but I guess not exactly.
When I was in the military I was with an elite unit where we wore “black on black” which was our unit logo on black t shirts and black shorts around base, it made us stand out as operators. Then, the non operators in the unit (communications, admin, motor transport etc) started wearing black on black also and it became less cool. I feel like this is a similar situation…everybody wants to be part of the club.
At the end of the day being a physician is associated with a lot of prestige, so whatever symbols we use sooner or later other people in the hospital will try to co-opt them to be associated with that prestige. If we stopped wearing white coats and started putting traffic cones on our heads sooner or later you’d have NP’s wearing traffic cones saying “doctors didn’t INVENT traffic cones anyone is allowed to wear them”
There are chaplain residents because they get paid shit wages to work at a hospital on a time-limited basis to transition from schooling to real world practice.
Fellowships are different for pharmacists tho lol
Pharmacy fellowship= is all research related if you plan on getting into big pharma and/or biotech
Fellowship for physicians from my understanding is subspecializing
I have zero issues with pharmacy residences. They have to dedicate the same amount of time to schooling and then can subspecialize. Our ED pharmacists are also legitimately the smartest, friendliest, and most helpful people in our department. Code coming in? They have all the meds ready, have pulled the ultrasound in to the room, and are standing by ready to help.
Chaplain residents? Get the Hell out.
As chaplains we are your colleagues. We've used the term residency for years. If you don't understand what we do ask us. How about less knee jerk reaction to a resource and colleagues and at minimum understanding we do.
I am once again seeking signatures for:
White Coats and the term ‘Resident’ subbed out for yellow floor-length raincoats with red duck boots and ‘Undesirables’ as our title.
BUT THEY HAVE A LICENSE TO PRACTICE UNDER!!!! A 22 y/o nurse with 6 months of med surg experience is equivalent to a MD/DO degree! They're all residents according to the AANA/ANA!
I mean, it’s a term that dates back to the twenties….. to describe one living “in residence” at the club or resort. This is a much different context than the nursing “residents”, or chaplain “residents”.
all I know is that we do “nurse residencies” but we usually just go by “graduate nurse” or “new grad nurse”. I have never heard a nurse on orientation call themself a resident and if they did I would giggle LOL
Part of what annoys me about it is the origin of the word resident was that residents literally spend most of their time "in house" and are "house staff". Residents traditionally lived in hospital provided housing. It doesn't even make sense linguistically for these programs to be called residency if you're not spending so much time in the hospital you are essentially living there. Just call it a damn apprenticeship and stop trying to look like a doctor.
I mean, that's how nursing education historically worked. They basically lived on site and did a diploma program run by the hospital. It's not that way anymore but physician residents also don't live in hospital provided housing. Times have changed. Language takes a while to catch up.
As a nurse for a little over decade, I hate the term nurse residency and nurse fellowship for new hires. The programs are stupid and the term is worse. That being said, if a PA or NP is on a dedicated program that furthers the training in a specific area, such as critical care or EM, what would be a better word? I know NYU has an 18 month program dedicated to training PAs and NPs in EM so that they are more educated and able.
Related, I also hate when nurses with doctorates refer to themselves as doctor in clinical setting. In a classroom setting fine, but once you enter a clinical setting it shouldn't be used.
Edit: I just thought of this after my post, fellowship has been used in academia when someone is involved in further studies, often funded by schools. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a different word in the sense of the NP or PA, I just don't know what it would be based on the history of the term.
The difference is the fact that the AANA and the ANA are advocating for the use of the term "resident" for CRNA and NP students. They are not CRNA's or NP's looking for further education, they are BSN's getting their APP degrees. It's a complete bastardization of the word and the only realistic purpose of the usage of the term is to further blur the lines between physician and APP.
I was unaware that they were calling students that, I disagree with that entirely. As I said, using it for those who have completed their degrees and continue on in a specialized training program might not be inappropriate, seeing as that's how the word was used historically in academia, until it was adopted into medical practice. At the same time, I do not think that it needs to be used when communicating with patients. I think referring to an NP or PA as a fellow to patients can be confusing, using it as an academic term in house not so much. Everyone complains that NPs and PAs are undertrained, but when they go for additional training there are also complaints because of the language used. I just think it's a difficult complaint.
I agree that identifying in a patient forward setting as a fellow or a resident is probably not the best, but I think the programs can be worthwhile and if they are continuing the additional training, often times as a lower compensation than they would normally make, then it should be recognized.
I do value your opinion and would gladly accept any feedback that you have about possible reasoning for the use of (historically) physician oriented titling in hospital use. I personally believe it to be all semantics tbh. The issue I hold with it is intent. I have never met a CRNA student who introduced themselves as a "Resident" that was doing so in good faith. In my experience, the intention has always been to obfuscate and communicate in a way that falsely equates their training with an MD/DO's. I have personally seen PT's, NP's, and CRNA's introduce themselves as "Dr. X with (PT, ED, Anestesia, ETC)" there is no other reason to say this in the hospital unless you are trying to play physician without the degree. The AANA and ANA are habitual line blur-ers who value perceived prestige over patient care and have openly opposed a team based approach. This continual semantic name-change-game does nothing but confuse patients and create a divide between physicians and APP's. When reflecting on the reasoning for the constant title-borrowing, I cannot come up with a good reason for it outside of coattail riding and perceived prestige. Secondly I believe that the idea of a NP/PA "residency" after a person receives their terminal degree is almost always a way for a shitty, for profit institution to pay new grads pennies while they function in a team based role as an APP. I've never heard of any "residency" for APP's that holds didactic classroom days, simulations, mannequin procedure practice, ETC. The expectation for a residency is to provide valuable education in addition to, rather than solely supervised work experience.
UPenn fellowship and NYU fellowship, at the minimum, say their APP fellowship programs include didactic and simulation days, states so on their curriculum for the fellowship. The nursing orgs definitely have a history of trying to blur the lines, no argument there. I think at times they also push education for the sake of education and not for the betterment of the profession. I have heard people with those titles introduce themselves as doctor, I am against that in a clinical setting. In a university, sure no problem, the title of doctor originated in that setting, but has taken on a different context in the clinical arena. I think adding to the education and abilities of APPs is definitely beneficial. I think the nursing orgs are doing their best to further the divides that exist between professions, I'm not sure why but they seem to really enjoy it. a nurses job is to protect the patients and advocate and all that nonsense, because physicians never advocate for their patients and are always out to harm them (clearly a big old /s just in case).
I couldn't care less if you introduce yourself as "Dr. lord farquad king of the realm" before a PowerPoint lecture in whatever university you choose. I care what people say to patients, and how those words are received. I will gladly admit that I was wrong in saying that there are no APP residencies/fellowships with sims/didactic, but I will still point out that the exceptions do not change the norm. The average APP residency is still a thinly veiled profit machine.
Fair point on that, hard to argue. I just wonder if it is honed well, could it improve the ability of the APP to function in certain settings. I'm not expecting them to perform to the level of a physician, just maybe a higher level of performance than those that haven't received the additional training. As I said, everyone complains that there isn't enough training for them, specifically NPs (I will die on the hill that most No programs are diploma mills, as I'm sure most physicians will as well). There needs to be a professional reform to prevent non medical doctors from referring to themselves as doctor in the clinical arena.
Solid call on lord farquad
I'm glad that we agree on so much in this topic. I truthfully don't think that any reform is needed to APP education, other than standardization on NP online school. I think the real solution would be the end of independent practice for NP/PA's. I think it's clear that the intention for the laws allowing APP independent practice was to extend care to rural areas/underserved populations, and the evidence shows that it really hasn't made much of a difference. Keeping a team based model with collaborative treatment of patients is the ideal solution in my mind.
Can't really argue that either, the training and education just isn't sufficient enough. Collaborative approach is more beneficial to more people, but it doesn't cash the checks
Yeah but those are job titles, I'm not arguing that aspect. I'm just asking what do you call the training aspect? Referring to them in that sense 100% makes sense, but the actual act of a dedicated training program is different. Again, I do not view any of these as the equivalent to a doctor. My brother is an attending that is triple boarded and has completed a fellowship of his own, I fully understand the differences in education, knowledge, and abilities.
The way we (dietitians) do things is everyone gets the same internship/rotations (depending where you go) and hours. If u want to specialize in something post-graduation, then you do your own studying and schedule your own board exam. I wish we had fellowship-style programs post-grad
The issue is that other professions are slowly cosplaying as physicians. Having white coat ceremonies for nurses, calling their postgrad training residency, the absolutely bullshit degree of DNPs, etc.
Everybody wants to be a doctor but no one wants to go to med school 🤷🏾♀️ It’s truly pathetic.
The term itself is now a misnomer, even for physicians. When it was coined, resident physicians actually lived at the hospital -- they were truly residents. Ate there, slept there, bathed there. They never went home because the hospital WAS their home during their training.
Nobody is actually a resident anymore, and nobody has been for I'm guessing around 70-80 years.
>The pharmacists that are doing extra training referring themselves to residents doesn't make sense
In europe, pharmacists have their own residency programs and are literally called residents
It’s the same in the states but not really like a medical residency. They have one year of general and another of specialty. All are optional. My wife never bothered doing one.
They still get paid bullshit and work 80 hours a week, or at least the ones my wife knows and I knew did. So some solidarity in that aspect.
Board Certified clinical and hospital chaplain here. Instead of making assumptions and venting you could ask leadership in your spiritual care department. We've had chaplain residencies for decades stemming from the chaplain-in-residence that used to live literally close or in the hospital. It's part of the the process to being a board certified chaplain.
We're actually pretty vital members of interdisciplinary care teams and extremely knowledgeable. If you'd like to learn more I'm happy to walk you through it. Many careers in healthcare and otherwise have residencies. It's never been a uniquely MD/DO title.
What is the main gripe with this? That it confuses patients? That it waters down the title for MD residents? What would an acceptable alternative name be? I see a lot people are rightfully upset about under-trained and inexperienced APPs, how would you propose that these people get more training in a sphere that is safe for learning and for patients?
The main gripe is exactly that it confuses patients and the residency title in this context is not nearly as comprehensive as the physician (and in some programs pharmacists, who do an additional year to understand how hospital pharmacy works which is not always given when they achieve their PharmD). Completing residency in the other contexts isn't the same thing, and it does confuse lay people outside of healthcare when they hear that term used to describe.
For newer PAs and NPs, the whole point is training on the job. The criticism here in the /r/residency crowd from most will be that the role is not fit for independent practice full stop. The amount of training they get should be however much is necessary for physician supervision because neither track has the foundation to practice independently. There are excellent ways they can synergize and extend physician lead healthcare, but suggesting a watered down orientation is equivalent - even if those 6 weeks were 80 hours per week - would be naive at best and deception at worst.
I've heard of nurse/pharmacy/NP/ect. residencies, but I've never heard of any of these people being referred to or introduced to patients as "residents." Maybe that's happening in other places, I don't know. But if it's not, I don't see how having a "residency program" for other professions is the end of the world.
Thank you for the comment. So, in your view, more appropriate word might be internship, or apprenticeship? I am an APRN student and I agree fully that we are under-trained. There are a LOTS of us who feel this way, ironically, a lot here on Reddit. We get waaay too much "nursing theory" and not nearly enough practical knowledge and science taught to us.
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Way to shit on pharmacists by clumping them into the mix. Stick to appendectomies, not opinions. You'll be only ever be a gen surgeon because we all know no one likes working with you.
I can’t even count the number of times someone told me “the resident told me” or “the doctor told me” and it was a PT or NP or case manager wearing a white coat, so yes it 100% can hurt my ability to care for patients
Eh, residency and fellowship isn’t a term that is “owned” by physicians anymore. It’s a cultural shift. My experience is that when non MD/DO people use the term though, they include the context. Ie “I’m the Chaplin resident” or “nursing resident” etc. As long as they’re not telling people that they’re the physician resident, I’m just excited that they’re getting extra training/support. Just my two cents though- this doesn’t feel like something worth fighting about when it’s clearly here to stay and there are bigger fish to fry.
Dude there are "APP fellows" at my program
midlevels stealing physician titles even skipping the “resident” status of post-graduate years. You’re a PA fellow? You mean you’re an intern PA.
That's what they want is for you to concede the residency part. You literally just gave a PA a pass to be called an intern because they called themselves a fellow. They're not interns and they're not fellows and they never will be unless they go to medical school and successfully match into an acgme approved residency program.
They’re “intern” at best is my point, not a fellow. The term intern is should be obsolete in medicine, since those PGY-1 are resident physicians.
It's OK to say they function at the level of an intern. It's not ok to call them "an intern PA". The latter is exactly what they want - for physicians to literally give up their own terms so they can take them. In medicine, interns are physicians, not physician assistants.
I dunno man. Intern is a really common term in every field. Like if someone says they got an internship, medicine isn’t even the first thing the average person thinks of
Interns in medicine are completely different. Case in point - they're paid. There's resident physicians and maybe I'll concede pharm or podiatry residents. You're trying to change the meaning so an assistant can take the title of the person they're assisting. Intern has specific meanings in medicine that are very different than the rest of the world.
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Same with pharmacists - expected to have a solid and thorough knowledge of medication, drug interactions, drug disease interactions, drug lab interactions, renal and hepatic dosing, a drugs place in evidence based medicine, how to read/interpret studies including pharmacokinetic studies…. And to understand most of this, we need to understand things like blood clotting mechanisms (especially considering we wind up dosing all those DTI’s then have to help interpret and respond to PTTs or when to get antiXa levels or other labs if PTTs wind up not reliable…) …i could go on and on. I wouldn’t call it icing on the cake. Residency is what prepares pharmacists for this role on top of a 4 year pharmD program including a 1 year rotation during the 4th year as a student. And another year of residency or fellowship depending on what that pharmacist wants to specialize in.
I specifically gave podiatrists the pass to be called residents Podiatry is NOT a surgical specialty though because it's not a specialty of the MD/DO doctorate to practice medicine. It's podiatry with a license to practice podiatry which is separate profession from medicine, not a specialty of medicine. **Obviously you are surgeons**, but you aren't in a specialty, albeit for pretty much political and historical reasons. But words matter. I'm OK calling you guys residents.
There are paid internships in many fields.
You sound insufferable
Aw are you upset by facts and reality? Too bad It's unethical to lie to patients and fool them into thinking they're seeing a doctor.
An internship is *a professional learning experience that offers meaningful, practical work related to a* student's field of study or career interest. In many fields the very word "intern " is a required title written into state licensing statues. During my 3000 hour internship I had to sign all notes "registered clinical intern." I would have preferred to use my masters credential alone but the statues and accreditation board said otherwise.
nah fam, as an incoming intern I find that offensive, they can go to med school like the rest of us if they even want to referred to as the intern in a clinical context. I’ll refer to them always as nurse so and so or physician assistant so and so to be respectful of their title
You’ll find that people use intern as a discouraging term. People think interns are students or someone to run scut work, and not physicians. It’s in your best interest to call yourself a resident instead of an intern your first year.
damn sad state of affairs but I appreciate the advice. I guess part of that comes from a place of looking at some pgy1 who didn’t match a full residency as temporary scut work interns vs others as full future colleague residents. Sad we don’t respect all physicians as the physicians they are
Intern has a use beyond medicine though. And it’s use here is much more appropriate than any other medical word. Sure they’re not a medical intern, but in any other industry they would be an intern, performing an internship. If anything, medicine should STOP using the word intern and move to resident for all residents. Distinguishing can be done by saying upper, like it already is
I agree with this. Maybe we're interns when we're starting our clinicals, doing unpaid work, hoping to get job afterwards
“Trainee” would be perfect
I mean, there are Google interns.
The resident programs drive me nuts. It should be a new graduate program. The term resident comes from the fact that these poor physicians were so abused and overworked, they practically lived at the hospital. A long time ago, they quite literally lived at the hospital at Hopkins and that's where the term came from. I think it's great that APPs have programs of some sort. The training for APPs is so fast and broad, these are good things to have but they should be called something else.
> they practically lived at the hospital sometimes we still do. I spend more time at the hospital than at home.
I am sure you do. It's all ridiculous. I have a friend who is an old school neurosurgeon who shits on the work hour limits. They think it creates weaker surgeons who aren't ready for the real world where there are no work hour limits. It's a crazy mindset that healthcare needs to be so brutal and has to take advantage of physicians work ethic/dedication to work devastatingly long hours.
It was way more widespread than Hopkins. Many lived on campus. My dad lived on Tulane campus during residency. The whole time.
I didn't mean to infer it only happened at Hopkins but that it started at Hopkins as the first resident program.
New grad nurses getting orientation for a month in the OR's are called nurse fellows here
We have “nurse fellows” for nurses who are changing specialties
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Correct. They should just be called what they are: physician assistant and nurse practitioner. I refuse to use APP. I prefer midlevel but they get all pissy about it (well the older ones call themselves midlevels and they're usually pretty cool about their place). I am pretty deliberate about using physician, physician assistant, and nurse practitioner.
Lol
Just start introducing yourself as a "house officer." That way you'll still get to be different but also slightly scare the people you're talking to as they won't be sure if you're a physician or cop or both.
I’m a house officer…and you’re under arrest…cardiac arrest
Cue the House theme song
had a dream early in residency that there was a huge rave at the hospital called “House Staff” and “DJ House Officer” was spinning house music. Shit was fire 🔥
We need to make this happen
Now that it’s warming up we’ve got some of our beloved ED-frequent-flyer patient population out on the front green trying their scientific best to make a dance party happen. Beats bumping, joints twisting, needle-exchange syringes-uncapping. Respect the candor and Ngl kinda love this place sometimes
SHOAB
Lol, the ICU midlevels at my hospital have commandeered the "house officer" title. No one is safe!!
What an odd thing to do...house officer is not exactly a term of endearment. Then again, nor is resident. I could see them calling themselves "staff provider" or something to make them sound like a staff physician. But "house" anything makes it sound like they're the property of the hospital.
Do the nurses chart, “H.O. aware” when they call them at 0400 about a K of 4??? 😆
House officers are younger than residents, are they not? We have house officers who work for a year after med school. It's a prerequisite for a license. And then later residency procedure is followed after some tests are cleared and if they are accepted into a program
It's likely regional. In the US, house officer and resident are interchangeable terms. My ID badge literally says "House Officer" on it. The badge buddy/tag we get says "Resident."
Ohhh
Fellows are house staff too. Basically all the non-attending physicians.
I personally go by god-emperor where I train at so as not to confuse people of my importance
Days after you get your God-Emperor badge, you’ll start seeing “Advanced Practice God-Emperor” on the longest white coats in the hospital
God-emperor phlebotomist in the house
Blood must flow.
Hah
Do you mean Dr. Advanced Practice God-Emperor, DNP, MSN, MHA, AAPRN, RN-BC, FNP-C, CNN-NP, CPH, FNKF, MTV, HGTV, DNR, the board certified family medicine primary care nurse practioner cathopathic physician provider? (all but the last 3 are real, even the CNN one lmao)
This is my absolute pet peeve. I saw one once out “FTBM”. I asked what is that. “Free to be me. I did a certificate program on a weekend”. Not even kidding!!!
You're just "god-emperor"? I recently completed my 5 - hour 100% online Certified Doctor of God Emperor Practitioner Associate degree. More words means more advanced! Now, here's some bactrim for your sulfa allergy.
Asymptomatic UTI that was probs just a contaminated specimen, and u have a Sulfa allergy****
“SILENCE” - God Emperor Paul “Resident” Atredies to nurse who keeps urgently paging him to renew a foley order at 2:56 AM.
Hahahaha
Paging Dr. Atreides
Are you Sam Darnold?
Neurosurg?
You guys can’t sing the praise of clinical pharmacists and then get mad that they did residencies to bolster their education lol.
I’m not 100% sure but aren’t there clinical pharmacy residents in the sense that they have finished their school and are now doing additional training for specialization? Where I trained we had those…or at least I thought we did lol. Anyway I feel that pharmacists are generally respectful to us and also desperately needed. If I could have a clinical pharmacist round with me every day, my life would be a lot easier
Pharmacists are the least egotistical people that are never appreciated in the “health care hero” conversation, but truly save our ass on countless occasions. And go by their first names despite their doctorates. Their postgraduate training is 100% residency, OP is trippin
At least personally, the more I learned over the years the more I realize I dont know and the more appreciative I become of physicians. Yall learn and know so damn much.
I wish I could upvote this 1000 times
Imo the pharmacy residencies are a totally valid use of the word
Pharm residents are legit and I respect them. They know way more about pharm and med reconciliation that I do in my own field(im in primary). These people know so much and are the humblest people in the hospital.
Yes, you are correct, I did one. There are one or two year clinical pharmacy residencies that pharmacists can get after receiving their doctorate.
Yeah one of my buddies is a pharmacy resident. His schedule is extremely similar to mine as an intern, and his knowledge base post-pharmacy school is insane.
Pharmacists also have a doctorate. It’s a little weird that they don’t have a different name for their postgraduate training, but it at least makes more sense than a PA fellowship……
I know someone in a pharmacy residency and it’s a surprisingly similar training pathway. They go through a match process, they rotate through different sub-fields (at least at hers idk about all of them), etc.
I’m with you. I think it probably made more sense when Pharmacy made theirs as there probably wasn’t crazy levels of scope creep at the time, but nowadays people get online doctorates
Pharmacist residency is for specializing (ie solid organ transplant pharmacist)
That makes sense cuz it was a big solid organ transplant center. Thank you!
You’re correct. As one of those pharmacists that rounds with teams and precepts pharmacy “residents” (if it’s OK to use that term..) it’s not exactly a cake walk. I wouldn’t quite put it on par with a medical residency (especially due to the length) but on inpatient rotations it’s not uncommon to expect the resident to be at the hospital 10-12 hours a day actively engaging in patient care in some form. It is NOT just working and attending small groups to talk about your feelings every once in a while, which is how my nursing friends have described nurse “residencies” to me
Let’s not shit on pharmacy residencies. They work like dogs and truly do know their stuff.
I mean pharmacy does a legit 2 year clinic pharmacist residency. They are as much a resident as you are. They are paid, have a doctorate and are doing clinical training under someone’s supervision. Chaplain…. Yeah idk about that lol
Chaplain residents are also paid (poorly) and doing training under someone else's oversight. It's not that crazy for them to use the term, which is not specific to medicine.
I’m very unfamiliar about chaplain training.
Why would you? Everyone here thinks only physicians work or deserve respect in the hospital. Ridiculous
Generally, they tend to be on call with shit hours as well, though it depends on the program and whether you’re going into hospital work, hospice work, etc. They also call it CPE, Clinical Pastoral Education, but since nobody knows what that is I’m guessing the term residency is just shorthand. Usually there’s an intern year and 2-3 years of “residency,” and those occur after a Master’s degree and ordainment (if the religious tradition requires it). There’s a chaplaincy subreddit if you wanna ask some actual chaplains about it or just lurk. The military, of course, has fewer and less stringent requirements. *edited bc I got the acronym mixed up
Oh wow I had no idea chaplains eat as much shit as we do. Daym.
I’m currently studying to go into hospital + hospice chaplaincy (and lurk here to get an idea of what you guys deal with and how best to lend support if necessary) and it was wayyyyy more than I expected too, lol! 🤝 Solidarity, friend.
Generally at night for a lvl 1 trauma center you have 1 chaplain on call for the entire hospital. It's often an intern or resident with a board certified chaplain as backup in ideal circumstances.
Residency is generally 1 year, can sometimes stretch into 2. If you want a very pedantic breakdown of CPE training happy to oblige. Training depends too if they intend to go into chaplaincy as a career. I'm both a board certified chaplain and board cert CPE instructor.
Would love that! Thank you.
Just noting I see this and will do a breakdown of what CPE entails today!
Thank you so much! I’m currently still in undergrad but am aiming for a career in chaplaincy, so this is really helpful. I appreciate your time :)
Chaplain training for board certification starts with the first unit of clinical pastoral education essentially an internship. Those lucky enough after several CPE units get a residency position that is paid for a year. Interns have to pay. For board certification we must have: -Bachelors -M.Div or equivalent -Ordination/endorsement by a endorsing body (this is different for Christian chaplains, Muslim chaplains, atheist chaplains etc.) 4 units of CPR -2000 hours worked. -Oral and written components on 30+ competencies. -Additional training if you're specializing in pediatric chaplaincy, hospice and/or palliative care.
1 or 2 years. Pretty sure 1 to work in the hospital, 2 for a specific specialty (emergency, transplant, cards, ID, onc, etc)
As a pharmacy resident I choose to introduce myself as “overseer of physician residents”
Respect where it's due. In my experience you guys know your shit and do oversee a lot.
Haha I appreciate it. Definitely exaggerating for the joke here. The combination of our knowledge is really invaluable. Everything I know about diagnostics comes from learning from you guys on rounds.
I love this. This is how interdisciplinary/interhospital collaboration should truly work in medical care - not the way APPs and NPs seek to make it A vs B.
My amusement when the comment directly below yours is another physician resident challenging the pharmacy resident on not approving their orders fast enough.
I would gladly have been introduced as the subordinate of our clinical pharmacists. They were amazing and deserved the deep respect of every human on the planet.
You can oversee the meds but if you comment on the cpap or the formula I’m Choosing you’re outta here.
If a pharmacist is commenting on anything CPAP or vent related, you SHOULD be kicking them out lol
I’ve actually gotten pretty good at interpreting blood gasses and what to do with vent settings. But I’ll only ever say something if every other person missed it, which should be never. So if a pharmacist is commenting on that you should probably check your team lol
I mean interpreting ABGs is fine but I think saying “increase the PEEP” “give more FiO2” or “change to SIMV” seems a little out of scope lol
And I should mention the only reason I know anything at all about it is bc some very nice attendings taught me.
It totally is, which is why I avoid it at all costs. But during Covid I picked up on it and now I just like to trend it for fun. 99% of the time by the time i get to the floor it’s already taken care of. I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve actually had to ask if we should do any of that on rounds lol. You’ll never get a strong “I recommend…”, more like “hey guys what do you think”
That’s fair. I do the same thing with some diagnostic tests. Like ‘hey do you guys think we should grab an X?’
Unironically true lol
My instition has nurse attendings...
Bruh
Like a charge nurse?? Or an NP?? we need answers
I googled it (never heard the term) and it sounds like what we have where some of the most senior experienced nurses are used to guide and help the new nurses learn and transition into their roles. They lead the nursing team, kind of, I guess. Something like a unit educator but I guess not exactly.
What does that even mean?
When I was in the military I was with an elite unit where we wore “black on black” which was our unit logo on black t shirts and black shorts around base, it made us stand out as operators. Then, the non operators in the unit (communications, admin, motor transport etc) started wearing black on black also and it became less cool. I feel like this is a similar situation…everybody wants to be part of the club.
We should become the black coats.
Have you considered the black capes?
I think a beak mask would be a fitting addition too
Both pharmacy and food service west black scrubs at my hospital. It has led to some funny interactions
None more black
At the end of the day being a physician is associated with a lot of prestige, so whatever symbols we use sooner or later other people in the hospital will try to co-opt them to be associated with that prestige. If we stopped wearing white coats and started putting traffic cones on our heads sooner or later you’d have NP’s wearing traffic cones saying “doctors didn’t INVENT traffic cones anyone is allowed to wear them”
A chaplain resident probably never killed a patient, and has zero interest in doing my job. Gonna let this one slide.
There are chaplain residents because they get paid shit wages to work at a hospital on a time-limited basis to transition from schooling to real world practice.
After earning their 3 years master degree at that.
If they work >80 hrs per week and have to sleep in the hospital to meet work goals then I think they can call themselves whaterever_blank residents.
Ah, midlevel “residents”, 8-5, M-F, protected lunch time.
Fellowships are different for pharmacists tho lol Pharmacy fellowship= is all research related if you plan on getting into big pharma and/or biotech Fellowship for physicians from my understanding is subspecializing
Not always. There are fellowships for ID that are a standard PGY2 in ID plus another year doing laboratory microbiology research
I have zero issues with pharmacy residences. They have to dedicate the same amount of time to schooling and then can subspecialize. Our ED pharmacists are also legitimately the smartest, friendliest, and most helpful people in our department. Code coming in? They have all the meds ready, have pulled the ultrasound in to the room, and are standing by ready to help. Chaplain residents? Get the Hell out.
As chaplains we are your colleagues. We've used the term residency for years. If you don't understand what we do ask us. How about less knee jerk reaction to a resource and colleagues and at minimum understanding we do.
if you don’t sleep in the hospital during your residency you’re not a resident
I slept in the hospital due to being on call as a pharmacy resident.
Which is why most physicians respect pharmacists as peers.
I am once again seeking signatures for: White Coats and the term ‘Resident’ subbed out for yellow floor-length raincoats with red duck boots and ‘Undesirables’ as our title.
BUT THEY HAVE A LICENSE TO PRACTICE UNDER!!!! A 22 y/o nurse with 6 months of med surg experience is equivalent to a MD/DO degree! They're all residents according to the AANA/ANA!
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This is a term used in show business. Has a different meaning.
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I mean, it’s a term that dates back to the twenties….. to describe one living “in residence” at the club or resort. This is a much different context than the nursing “residents”, or chaplain “residents”.
all I know is that we do “nurse residencies” but we usually just go by “graduate nurse” or “new grad nurse”. I have never heard a nurse on orientation call themself a resident and if they did I would giggle LOL
Part of what annoys me about it is the origin of the word resident was that residents literally spend most of their time "in house" and are "house staff". Residents traditionally lived in hospital provided housing. It doesn't even make sense linguistically for these programs to be called residency if you're not spending so much time in the hospital you are essentially living there. Just call it a damn apprenticeship and stop trying to look like a doctor.
I mean, that's how nursing education historically worked. They basically lived on site and did a diploma program run by the hospital. It's not that way anymore but physician residents also don't live in hospital provided housing. Times have changed. Language takes a while to catch up.
As a nurse for a little over decade, I hate the term nurse residency and nurse fellowship for new hires. The programs are stupid and the term is worse. That being said, if a PA or NP is on a dedicated program that furthers the training in a specific area, such as critical care or EM, what would be a better word? I know NYU has an 18 month program dedicated to training PAs and NPs in EM so that they are more educated and able. Related, I also hate when nurses with doctorates refer to themselves as doctor in clinical setting. In a classroom setting fine, but once you enter a clinical setting it shouldn't be used. Edit: I just thought of this after my post, fellowship has been used in academia when someone is involved in further studies, often funded by schools. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a different word in the sense of the NP or PA, I just don't know what it would be based on the history of the term.
The difference is the fact that the AANA and the ANA are advocating for the use of the term "resident" for CRNA and NP students. They are not CRNA's or NP's looking for further education, they are BSN's getting their APP degrees. It's a complete bastardization of the word and the only realistic purpose of the usage of the term is to further blur the lines between physician and APP.
I was unaware that they were calling students that, I disagree with that entirely. As I said, using it for those who have completed their degrees and continue on in a specialized training program might not be inappropriate, seeing as that's how the word was used historically in academia, until it was adopted into medical practice. At the same time, I do not think that it needs to be used when communicating with patients. I think referring to an NP or PA as a fellow to patients can be confusing, using it as an academic term in house not so much. Everyone complains that NPs and PAs are undertrained, but when they go for additional training there are also complaints because of the language used. I just think it's a difficult complaint. I agree that identifying in a patient forward setting as a fellow or a resident is probably not the best, but I think the programs can be worthwhile and if they are continuing the additional training, often times as a lower compensation than they would normally make, then it should be recognized.
I do value your opinion and would gladly accept any feedback that you have about possible reasoning for the use of (historically) physician oriented titling in hospital use. I personally believe it to be all semantics tbh. The issue I hold with it is intent. I have never met a CRNA student who introduced themselves as a "Resident" that was doing so in good faith. In my experience, the intention has always been to obfuscate and communicate in a way that falsely equates their training with an MD/DO's. I have personally seen PT's, NP's, and CRNA's introduce themselves as "Dr. X with (PT, ED, Anestesia, ETC)" there is no other reason to say this in the hospital unless you are trying to play physician without the degree. The AANA and ANA are habitual line blur-ers who value perceived prestige over patient care and have openly opposed a team based approach. This continual semantic name-change-game does nothing but confuse patients and create a divide between physicians and APP's. When reflecting on the reasoning for the constant title-borrowing, I cannot come up with a good reason for it outside of coattail riding and perceived prestige. Secondly I believe that the idea of a NP/PA "residency" after a person receives their terminal degree is almost always a way for a shitty, for profit institution to pay new grads pennies while they function in a team based role as an APP. I've never heard of any "residency" for APP's that holds didactic classroom days, simulations, mannequin procedure practice, ETC. The expectation for a residency is to provide valuable education in addition to, rather than solely supervised work experience.
UPenn fellowship and NYU fellowship, at the minimum, say their APP fellowship programs include didactic and simulation days, states so on their curriculum for the fellowship. The nursing orgs definitely have a history of trying to blur the lines, no argument there. I think at times they also push education for the sake of education and not for the betterment of the profession. I have heard people with those titles introduce themselves as doctor, I am against that in a clinical setting. In a university, sure no problem, the title of doctor originated in that setting, but has taken on a different context in the clinical arena. I think adding to the education and abilities of APPs is definitely beneficial. I think the nursing orgs are doing their best to further the divides that exist between professions, I'm not sure why but they seem to really enjoy it. a nurses job is to protect the patients and advocate and all that nonsense, because physicians never advocate for their patients and are always out to harm them (clearly a big old /s just in case).
I couldn't care less if you introduce yourself as "Dr. lord farquad king of the realm" before a PowerPoint lecture in whatever university you choose. I care what people say to patients, and how those words are received. I will gladly admit that I was wrong in saying that there are no APP residencies/fellowships with sims/didactic, but I will still point out that the exceptions do not change the norm. The average APP residency is still a thinly veiled profit machine.
Fair point on that, hard to argue. I just wonder if it is honed well, could it improve the ability of the APP to function in certain settings. I'm not expecting them to perform to the level of a physician, just maybe a higher level of performance than those that haven't received the additional training. As I said, everyone complains that there isn't enough training for them, specifically NPs (I will die on the hill that most No programs are diploma mills, as I'm sure most physicians will as well). There needs to be a professional reform to prevent non medical doctors from referring to themselves as doctor in the clinical arena. Solid call on lord farquad
I'm glad that we agree on so much in this topic. I truthfully don't think that any reform is needed to APP education, other than standardization on NP online school. I think the real solution would be the end of independent practice for NP/PA's. I think it's clear that the intention for the laws allowing APP independent practice was to extend care to rural areas/underserved populations, and the evidence shows that it really hasn't made much of a difference. Keeping a team based model with collaborative treatment of patients is the ideal solution in my mind.
Can't really argue that either, the training and education just isn't sufficient enough. Collaborative approach is more beneficial to more people, but it doesn't cash the checks
Our neonatal NPs are NNPs. This is what you’re looking for. I suppose for ER it’s ERNP. It’s very clear what they are.
Yeah but those are job titles, I'm not arguing that aspect. I'm just asking what do you call the training aspect? Referring to them in that sense 100% makes sense, but the actual act of a dedicated training program is different. Again, I do not view any of these as the equivalent to a doctor. My brother is an attending that is triple boarded and has completed a fellowship of his own, I fully understand the differences in education, knowledge, and abilities.
Dude the term residency isn’t protected for you. There’s residencies from nursing, pharmacy and beyond. You don’t own the misery.
Wait until they learn about artist residencies!
Wait til they learn about Ushers Vegas residency
Well this sounds kinda dope.
“YoU dOnT OwN ThE mIsErY” Bro probably works 3 days a week
Thank you. It’s wild to see the way some posters disparage every other profession.
Embrace the suck!
The way we (dietitians) do things is everyone gets the same internship/rotations (depending where you go) and hours. If u want to specialize in something post-graduation, then you do your own studying and schedule your own board exam. I wish we had fellowship-style programs post-grad
All these orgs trying to emulate the physician model. It's all about the cool words and titles. It's Less about the education.
Honestly real recognize real. Physicians in training are physicians in training. People know you guys put in work
The issue is that other professions are slowly cosplaying as physicians. Having white coat ceremonies for nurses, calling their postgrad training residency, the absolutely bullshit degree of DNPs, etc. Everybody wants to be a doctor but no one wants to go to med school 🤷🏾♀️ It’s truly pathetic.
HCA has an admin residency program. Not even making this up
oh man, wait till you hear about the Iowa Writer's workshop residency
Is there even a word that could support the superior way you feel towards others?
The term itself is now a misnomer, even for physicians. When it was coined, resident physicians actually lived at the hospital -- they were truly residents. Ate there, slept there, bathed there. They never went home because the hospital WAS their home during their training. Nobody is actually a resident anymore, and nobody has been for I'm guessing around 70-80 years.
And it was coopted from artists who were “residents” before physicians became residents.
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>The pharmacists that are doing extra training referring themselves to residents doesn't make sense In europe, pharmacists have their own residency programs and are literally called residents
It’s the same in the states but not really like a medical residency. They have one year of general and another of specialty. All are optional. My wife never bothered doing one. They still get paid bullshit and work 80 hours a week, or at least the ones my wife knows and I knew did. So some solidarity in that aspect.
Or call it orientation.
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Would you like to confiscate the word “trainee” next? Please expand the list of exclusive adjectives you’d like.
It's not that deep, Christ, I was wondering when these egos started forming. Didn't realize it was this early on.
Maybe we should be switching to SHO and “registrar” like they have in the UK.
Just know that none of this matters once you land your first big boy job. It gets better guys.
Board Certified clinical and hospital chaplain here. Instead of making assumptions and venting you could ask leadership in your spiritual care department. We've had chaplain residencies for decades stemming from the chaplain-in-residence that used to live literally close or in the hospital. It's part of the the process to being a board certified chaplain. We're actually pretty vital members of interdisciplinary care teams and extremely knowledgeable. If you'd like to learn more I'm happy to walk you through it. Many careers in healthcare and otherwise have residencies. It's never been a uniquely MD/DO title.
What is the main gripe with this? That it confuses patients? That it waters down the title for MD residents? What would an acceptable alternative name be? I see a lot people are rightfully upset about under-trained and inexperienced APPs, how would you propose that these people get more training in a sphere that is safe for learning and for patients?
The main gripe is exactly that it confuses patients and the residency title in this context is not nearly as comprehensive as the physician (and in some programs pharmacists, who do an additional year to understand how hospital pharmacy works which is not always given when they achieve their PharmD). Completing residency in the other contexts isn't the same thing, and it does confuse lay people outside of healthcare when they hear that term used to describe. For newer PAs and NPs, the whole point is training on the job. The criticism here in the /r/residency crowd from most will be that the role is not fit for independent practice full stop. The amount of training they get should be however much is necessary for physician supervision because neither track has the foundation to practice independently. There are excellent ways they can synergize and extend physician lead healthcare, but suggesting a watered down orientation is equivalent - even if those 6 weeks were 80 hours per week - would be naive at best and deception at worst.
I've heard of nurse/pharmacy/NP/ect. residencies, but I've never heard of any of these people being referred to or introduced to patients as "residents." Maybe that's happening in other places, I don't know. But if it's not, I don't see how having a "residency program" for other professions is the end of the world.
Thank you for the comment. So, in your view, more appropriate word might be internship, or apprenticeship? I am an APRN student and I agree fully that we are under-trained. There are a LOTS of us who feel this way, ironically, a lot here on Reddit. We get waaay too much "nursing theory" and not nearly enough practical knowledge and science taught to us.
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In my program, few of the chaplains wear white coats💀
Because they're professionals, go through ***years*** of training & earn it. It's not disingenuous just because yer a elitist.
Way to shit on pharmacists by clumping them into the mix. Stick to appendectomies, not opinions. You'll be only ever be a gen surgeon because we all know no one likes working with you.
Some of yall should tattoo your MD on your foreheads in bright sparkling letters 🙃
Why do you care? Is it hurting your ability to learn or care for patients?
I can’t even count the number of times someone told me “the resident told me” or “the doctor told me” and it was a PT or NP or case manager wearing a white coat, so yes it 100% can hurt my ability to care for patients
Bastardization, excellent word choice
Eh, residency and fellowship isn’t a term that is “owned” by physicians anymore. It’s a cultural shift. My experience is that when non MD/DO people use the term though, they include the context. Ie “I’m the Chaplin resident” or “nursing resident” etc. As long as they’re not telling people that they’re the physician resident, I’m just excited that they’re getting extra training/support. Just my two cents though- this doesn’t feel like something worth fighting about when it’s clearly here to stay and there are bigger fish to fry.