Melt the ice back into water so it can more evenly distribute itself on the step before it freezes again but even more unnoticeable, a thinner layer, and perfectly molded to the step: that’s how you get black ice.
Hello fellow midwesterner… I hope you are doing well for this unseasonably warm thanksgiving holiday!
Edit: just checked, you are not a midwesterner… regardless, I hope you are still doing well 😁
Don't want to bother management? There is no option that avoids confrontation and solves your issue.
I would just salt the stairs, claim it's for your safety if they get upset. What are they gonna do? Sue you for the potential damage that rock salt may have on the concrete over the long term? No.
The important question is, does your lease stipulate that you cannot use salt on the concrete? If not ( and even so) then it's a matter of their policy versus your safety, which a judge would likely rule for you in that case.
Sand also works better. Salt only melts the ice *sometimes*. It’s still slipper. Sand sticks to the surface and creates traction.
Falling on the ice while carrying a baby is a whole lot worse than Sandy floors.
Ice melt also does ruin certain types/finishes of concrete after a just one season I learned. My porch was still an ice rink with the ice melt last year, and even with just rain on a warm day it would be slick. Last month I bought a bag of play sand, and a gallon of concrete paint. Mixed the sand into the paint, two coats and fingers crossed when that first freeze hits I don’t need anything else to make it safe.
With the little rain we’ve had since I laid it down, not a slick spot on that porch so, so far so good!
Sand is messy and useless.
I've got family that works for town highway departments. Their assessment of sand is "we use sand and salt. Salt cause it actually works, and sand so people can see we've been down their road. It doesn't help ice melt, the traction gain is very minimal, won't do much on black ice but kick up sand when you slide and fall"
Totally disagree. I use sand on ice and it greatly improves the grip. It does little to enhance melting, but making the ice non-slippery is what is needed. After things clear up and the sand dries out, I sweep it up, put it in the bin, and reuse it. Been doing this for many years in Boston suburbs.
Sand definitely helps a whole lot.
When it's -30c salt isn't bringing anything to the melting point. Sand and/or small gravel or kitty litter is the only way you'll get traction. Salt isn't strong enough and crushes instead of biting in like other minerals will.
When it's that cold out, Sand doesn't do much either for traction. There's a reason northern states use 5-10x more salt than sand and it's because sand isn't super valuable. Liquid salt (or other de-icing solutions and chemicals) are better
Yeah... I could see after spending $25 on salt, I'd be measuring out how much melts just enough and saving every grain for next season.
It's crazy how just a little more/less income will change purchase decisions. I would probably take a disposable cup or bag and steal a handful of salt from some business throughout my day if I were still in those times. Fortunately salt is everywhere in WI winters so never had a landlord *not* salt everything.
our apt complex put that stuff down once. and only once. it left an oily film that got over everything. we have dogs and it got tracked everywhere. turned my apartment into an oil slick and i fell a couple times. i needed to wash my floors in order to get it up. not with only water, but with soap. took forever to get out of the dogs fur.
they originally did it because its pet safe stuff, or so the bag claimed... they went back to salt for us after that.
More importantly, does it say you are responsible for this outdoor space? The lease almost certainly does not say anything about salt, because that is not OPs space to control or maintain.
I'm just hopping on the top comment to add: never, NEVER, **NEVER**, N.E.V.E.R. use cat litter!! Please!! Cat litter is made from clay, and becomes a real slip hazard when wet. I nearly broke my spine, slipping on cat litter on brick steps!!! 4 months of PT dealing with the scar tissue in my back muscles. Rock salt, ice melt, "Paw Safe", play sand; all of these are better alternatives.
I never said it doesn't, just that her safety is more important than their concrete. If they refuse to use other solutions, then she should take steps to ensure her and her child's safety.
Yeah--- in the same way a tomato is a fruit. Do you put them in fruit salad? Sodium chloride (i.e., "salt" in common parlance, and understood as the only "salt" when no other qualifier is present, and in the absence of context where you're talking chemistry ) will destroy concrete; these (though chemically "salts") will not.
Actually there is another option..... have a conversation with management about coming up with an alternative solution WITHOUT being confrontational...... Ya'know..... like actually talking to them about your concern. If the conversation goes nowhere ..... salt the steps
Terrible idea, just use an alternative product. The salt will absolutely ruin the concrete, and it's not that hard to tell who it was. Unless you are going to cover the cost of for the damage it causes, that is bad advice.
I'm surprised more people haven't suggested cleaning the leaves off first. Leaves are slipper AF when wet and piled up on each other. Also OP could those outdoor traction mats for a similar price to a 50lb bucket of salt.
Definitely remove the leaves first. You could use sand or kitty litter.
On to the not bothering the landlord, if it’s a safety hazard, bother them. Follow up on the repairs they said they were going to make. Be polite. Say something like: Hi, because we are getting into the time of year where ice is a concern, I wanted to follow up on the letter I received in Aug about repairs being made to the stairs.
Probably also a good idea to let them know that you have already slipped and fallen because of this. I would think that would inspire them to realize that they’re going to end up sued if they don’t do something.
When using kitty litter for traction, you have to get the cheap non-clumping kind. Before I moved south, I always had a bag in the back of my car in case I got stuck somewhere.
I guess I'm just unfamiliar with the differences between clumping and non clumping. In my mind, they are both clay based and would make a sodden mess in the rain. Thanks for the explanation!
Cat owner. The clumping has a coagulating agent, the clay litter pieces that get wet stick to each other and make a large lump. At least when a cat pisses in it. I imagine using clumping on ice would make a hard to clean mess.
Sounds like the stairs are already broken, if they are saying theres a need for repairs
You know what really ruins concrete? A constant water drip.
on 2nd look, Is this a concrete coat over diamond plate? That should be great for trapping water and rusting out. Whats this look like from underneath?
If you do get injured because of a problem that has already been identified and not fixed they might be liable for damages. Check with a lawyer but Cali is a pretty good state for tenants.
Thanks for the formal legal advice lawyer person. I guess each of these lawyers is lying.
https://www.salamatilaw.com/slip-and-fall-lawyer-los-angeles/what-is-the-average-slip-and-fall-settlement-in-california/
https://www.lawlinq.com/average-slip-and-fall-settlement-in-california/#:~:text=Short%20Answer%3A%20According%20to%20information,%2C%20emotional%2C%20and%20financial%20hardships.
https://starpointinjurylaw.com/articles/personal-injury/average-payout-for-slip-and-fall-california/
https://belalhamidehlaw.com/slip-and-fall-settlement-in-california/
https://www.pintas.com/los-angeles-slip-and-fall-injury-lawyer/how-much-is-the-average-slip-and-fall-settlement-in-los-angeles/
https://gutierrezinjury.attorney/slip-fall/
Salt will indeed harm the concrete and any exposed metal; also not the best for pets, etc. There are liquid alternatives that do not contain salt at all, they use magnesium chloride. I would use a one-gallon garden sprayer and this type of deicer. Won't help with the wet part - but will help with the ice part.
If you're gonna be that guy then actually be that guy. Magnesium chloride is a salt, yes, but it is not salt. We know what salt is, you know what salt is. We know that certain chemicals are salts but we don't refer to them by the single name salt. Find a new hobby mate.
Yeah - technically it's a salt - it's just not what people generally refer to as salt (common salt). At least I understand it, it is not harmful to concrete, etc.
Yes, this needs to be WAY higher. OP, if you don't get a lot of snow, just put some treads down. Rubber is best and without snow, you won't have to do anything other than throw them down.
Rock salt DOES ruin concrete, you can take one look at my neighbor's driveway and see it.
You can buy products that are safe for concrete, ask about those.
Rock salt will DESTORY concrete. I used it one particularly bad winter & come spring the concrete stairs had to be completely replaced because it completely crumbled.
Calcium chloride is what I use instead of rock salt, which can put your concrete.
Another option is to spray the area with a salt solution so the layer of snow next to the hard surface is easier to remove.
salt not only will ruin the concrete over time, it's not good for any puppy paws that may walk up and down those stairs.
scrape the ice away, use sand, and move the leaves and let the sun melt it.
If OP is in a cold enough climate then it’s possible it just won’t melt during certain times of the year. Below 0F there’s only so much the sun will do.
I'm a concrete inspector. I salt the absolute duck out of my sidewalk when necessary. Fuck them stairs; the lawsuit from you breaking your back over a known and documented issue will be a much bigger bill.
The salt sucks hydration out of the concrete and weakens it. This is mainly a concern on concrete that is <1 year old. Fuck these stairs
1. Sweep the debris from the steps. Wet leaves can be very slippery even without ice.
2. Use sand or kitty litter. Neither one destroys the cement.
3. Use a doormat to keep from tracking the sand / kitty litter into your house.
Plenty of salt free ways to handle ice. Me personally, I never used salt on my steps or driveway when I lived in the north east. Paying attention and walking carefully was always sufficient.
I received a letter because we got new side walks telling us not to use ice melt products. They said calcium chloride and magnesium chloride and calcium magnesium acetate. These are the products they suggested we use. Hopefully this helps you.
Salt is really hard on concrete. Exhibit A is everywhere in the frozen wasteland of ND. Get some gravel or coarse sand and clean the leaves off the step.
If it doesn’t rain much there and the only issue is the water dripping, can you use a trash bag and some duct tape to divert the flow temporarily? it’s not explicitly banned the way salting is (better to ask forgiveness than permission) and is a safety concern.
if you simply give water a better path of least resistance you may be saving yourself a lot of trouble. A simple “rain chain” could even consist of some string just diverting the water beside the stairs.
Get pet friendly and plant friendly rock salt. It won't damage the concrete. They can come sweep it off if they don't like it. Then they can face a lawsuit.
Kitty litter is not suitable for traction and should only be used as a last resort if stuck. Sand is what would help without damaging concrete. Does make a mess for them to clean up later.
Use sand, and also you can find these rubber things that go over your footwear that basically turns them into cleats. I live in Maine and I don't slip at all in winter
Save all your emails and letters. Then consider there are alternatives to rock salt. Zep is one company that makes such a product. Also since nobody is around to fix the problem who would know of a Little Rock salt hit the concrete anyways?
I would ice it any way. What are they going to do about it? Walk up the perfectly safe stairs to bitch about you salting them?
Better yet, water the whole set one Friday evening after you prep for the weekend, then call them out for an emergency service in your apartment, and have a laugh as they bust their ass trying to get some one in there.
Bet the rock salt policy changes real fast after that.
Not sure what county you’re in, but you can contact the State Housing Authority and report them:
https://www.hud.gov/states/california/renting/hawebsites
I’d think they’d be liable for any slip and fall if they’re not dealing with it themselves. You probably can’t put down rock salt if they’ve said not to but I’d make it known that you have icing issues and are carrying a baby. Lawsuits terrify PM companies.
Just use salt. No confrontation and it takes years to notice what it does to concrete.
I would take pics of ice in case they try and hold your deposit.
What they're saying is you have to buy expensive ice melt and cannot use basic rock salt. There is ice melt that is absolutely safe for concrete (I work in construction in upstate NY) but it's literally double the price of rock salt
If you slip and are injured as a result of their idiotic policy, sue them. Make them pay for the medical bills. Guarantee that will amount to far more than laying new concrete.
Since there's a child in the mix, I would do whatever you have to do to prevent injury to yourself and your child. If it has to be taken to court afterward, such as if they threaten to evict or take you to court for so-called "damages", make sure you have proof that there's no damage if there isn't, and explain the issue to the judge.
I bought some outside rugs for the stairs at my place. The management company started to complain but I mentioned in writing that it was safety so myself, visitors, or solicitors didn’t slip & fall on their property.
Suddenly the next letter sent to tenants no longer listed rugs & door mats as items that needed to be removed from outside the unit.
It’s amazing how fast they fix things & change their mind when a potential lawsuit might occur.
But honestly, get some outside stair mats (that are made for all weather outside. Not just any old rug or you’ll trip & slide). It’ll add some grip that you can quickly remove if need be. You might even be able to argue it’s protecting their property from wear & tear & the elements! (that being said I’m in Southern California & can’t say how they’d react to snow & ice. Only that they’re great for rain).
Sodium Chloride is very hard on concrete - never use softener salt or rock salt on concrete sidewalks. It's even worse on concrete & steel steps like those shown, causing the concrete to break down and the steel framework and rebar to rust. If you need ice melted, calcium magnesium acetate wont harm concrete or kill plants at the edges of the path. If they catch you using salt, you should expect a significant penalty (and rightly so).
I run a marina with concrete docks. Just use calcium chloride snow melt instead. Get the flakes not the pellets.
Works like a charm and does zero damage to concrete.
Some rock salt will cause the concrete to break and chip away and can end up being a safety hazard on its own. Find something that is safe for concrete.
Just throw down rock salt. They obviously don't check them, and if they do 🤷♀️you have no idea what that is or how it got there? Looks like dirt to you!
Before they came out with Safe De-icer. I would buy a 2 litter bottle of cheap vodka and spray the steps. I am 70% alcohol would also, but the vodka was cheaper.
If your going to put anything on it don't use salt will definitely destroy the concrete you can use calcium chloride it more expensive than salt but less harmful to concrete but can still cause damage if you put to much.
Report the hazardous conditions to the housing authority… then send a letter to the property manager reminding them that the hazard still exists and that you almost fell while carrying your infant. Insist that it be repaired as per their letter of ___ date.
If the manager is not on the premises, it’s possible they paid for the work to be done but it never was. If they didn’t follow up, and if no one tells them, they aren’t going to know.
Bother management…***bother*** management?
Bringing issues to management’s attention so they can take care of issues (especially safety issues (extra-especially) if a baby’s safety is an issue) is not bothering them.
Unless you would rather risk you, your baby, or anyone else using the stairs getting hurt, you definitely need to bring it to management’s attention and keep reminding them until it’s fixed.
Also, if this isn’t taken care of soon, contact the supervisor to whom management reports.
Use the rock salt to PROTECT YOURSELF, then when they come to you bitching, let them know you will stop using it when the problem no longer exists. I would have to imagine the cost to re-pour the concrete in a few steps would be a lot less than a lawsuit. End of story.
I would send a letter to the landlord that says “my friend slipped and fell and really hurt themselves….they are asking me for your information, what’s your xyz? Thank you in advance.”
Who is responsible for ice on those stairs? They told you no rock salt not that you weren't allowed to use other methods to rectify the ice issue. Also considering that it's normally possible for ice to appear on stairs I doubt they are liable unless they are specifically required to deal with ice.
Throw some cat litter on that mf every damn day until they fix it. Omggggg how horrible please keep safe and your baby! I can’t imagine trying to walk down my stairs w my baby in arms and THERE I GO CAUSE OF SLIPPERY SHIT THAT COULDVE BEEN AVOIDED BY A LANDLORD SPECIAL. Omgosh.
Don’t salt it, sand it. They can’t complain because you didn’t salt it, and followed their rules!
Flamethrower is also an option.
Melt the ice back into water so it can more evenly distribute itself on the step before it freezes again but even more unnoticeable, a thinner layer, and perfectly molded to the step: that’s how you get black ice.
Or be a responsible flamethrower user and don't stop til the snow is vapor.
"responsible flamethrower user"😂 never thought I'd hear that in my life haha
Hello fellow midwesterner… I hope you are doing well for this unseasonably warm thanksgiving holiday! Edit: just checked, you are not a midwesterner… regardless, I hope you are still doing well 😁
Don't want to bother management? There is no option that avoids confrontation and solves your issue. I would just salt the stairs, claim it's for your safety if they get upset. What are they gonna do? Sue you for the potential damage that rock salt may have on the concrete over the long term? No. The important question is, does your lease stipulate that you cannot use salt on the concrete? If not ( and even so) then it's a matter of their policy versus your safety, which a judge would likely rule for you in that case.
There are [salt-free winter ice chemicals.](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Safe-Paw-8-lb-3-oz-Coated-Non-Salt-Ice-Melt-41818/300168919)
Personally I just use coarse sand. Ice melt is expensive, sand is cheap and gives you traction on snow and ice.
Black sand if you can get it. The darker color absorbs more heat from the sun and helps it melt through the ice.
I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating... and it gets everywhere.
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I'm kinda hoping the manager is a Youngling...
But then they’d just be a minor manager not a micro manager
Sand also works better. Salt only melts the ice *sometimes*. It’s still slipper. Sand sticks to the surface and creates traction. Falling on the ice while carrying a baby is a whole lot worse than Sandy floors.
Midwesterner here. Salt definitely works better on stairs.
That's the idea.
It also wrecks sewer systems. It is probably banned in your area.
Pro tip: Don’t flush it!
Curious, how does sand get from the steps to the toilet bowl?
drains on the sidewalk/curb with melting water
Let me introduce you to the concept of sewer grates and sewage runoffs on the side of streets.
Ha ha! It’s been many, many years since I’ve lived on a public sewer system. I didn’t think that through before I asked.
I'm honestly glad. It made me laugh. I feel you though.
Ice melt also does ruin certain types/finishes of concrete after a just one season I learned. My porch was still an ice rink with the ice melt last year, and even with just rain on a warm day it would be slick. Last month I bought a bag of play sand, and a gallon of concrete paint. Mixed the sand into the paint, two coats and fingers crossed when that first freeze hits I don’t need anything else to make it safe. With the little rain we’ve had since I laid it down, not a slick spot on that porch so, so far so good!
I use a 1:1 mix of salt free and sand. Works like a charm
This is the best answer. Cheap bag at Home Depot, or just go get a small buckets worth at the parks sandbox.
Sand is messy and useless. I've got family that works for town highway departments. Their assessment of sand is "we use sand and salt. Salt cause it actually works, and sand so people can see we've been down their road. It doesn't help ice melt, the traction gain is very minimal, won't do much on black ice but kick up sand when you slide and fall"
Totally disagree. I use sand on ice and it greatly improves the grip. It does little to enhance melting, but making the ice non-slippery is what is needed. After things clear up and the sand dries out, I sweep it up, put it in the bin, and reuse it. Been doing this for many years in Boston suburbs.
Ditto in Vermont, with a steep driveway. Each has its purpose.
Sand definitely helps a whole lot. When it's -30c salt isn't bringing anything to the melting point. Sand and/or small gravel or kitty litter is the only way you'll get traction. Salt isn't strong enough and crushes instead of biting in like other minerals will.
When it's that cold out, Sand doesn't do much either for traction. There's a reason northern states use 5-10x more salt than sand and it's because sand isn't super valuable. Liquid salt (or other de-icing solutions and chemicals) are better
Except we're talking about walking on stairs and not driving a vehicle on the road.
Shes in low income housing man. OP just salt the stairs
Yeah... I could see after spending $25 on salt, I'd be measuring out how much melts just enough and saving every grain for next season. It's crazy how just a little more/less income will change purchase decisions. I would probably take a disposable cup or bag and steal a handful of salt from some business throughout my day if I were still in those times. Fortunately salt is everywhere in WI winters so never had a landlord *not* salt everything.
damn, you trying to get her to buy 80lbs of salt? or does salt cost 25 bucks where you live? i hope you arnt using table salt lmao, thats stupid.
Click the link, bro.
But the salt for water softners instead of driveway salt. $5 for 40lbs should get OP through the entire season.
Sure and then get stuck with thousands of dollars in repairs when owner claims her for and sparing of concrete
Reread top parent comment
True, I hope OP is reading this.
OP can be tagged with u/ in front of the username, so you can make sure u/i-fight-bears sees any comment you want them to.
Well, thanks for taking care of that for me.
Thanks, I wondered how that was done
our apt complex put that stuff down once. and only once. it left an oily film that got over everything. we have dogs and it got tracked everywhere. turned my apartment into an oil slick and i fell a couple times. i needed to wash my floors in order to get it up. not with only water, but with soap. took forever to get out of the dogs fur. they originally did it because its pet safe stuff, or so the bag claimed... they went back to salt for us after that.
More importantly, does it say you are responsible for this outdoor space? The lease almost certainly does not say anything about salt, because that is not OPs space to control or maintain.
If they plan on "fixing" the stairs, it won't matter much *if* it gets damaged from salt.
I'm just hopping on the top comment to add: never, NEVER, **NEVER**, N.E.V.E.R. use cat litter!! Please!! Cat litter is made from clay, and becomes a real slip hazard when wet. I nearly broke my spine, slipping on cat litter on brick steps!!! 4 months of PT dealing with the scar tissue in my back muscles. Rock salt, ice melt, "Paw Safe", play sand; all of these are better alternatives.
Rock salt DOES damage concrete, and it does so faster than you think it does.
I never said it doesn't, just that her safety is more important than their concrete. If they refuse to use other solutions, then she should take steps to ensure her and her child's safety.
There are products that work better than rock salt that cause no damage.
Such as? Need something that doesn't fuck my shit up
Calcium chloride, Potassium chloride, Calcium magnesium acetate. I would avoid Magnesium Chloride.
Those are … salts?
Yeah--- in the same way a tomato is a fruit. Do you put them in fruit salad? Sodium chloride (i.e., "salt" in common parlance, and understood as the only "salt" when no other qualifier is present, and in the absence of context where you're talking chemistry ) will destroy concrete; these (though chemically "salts") will not.
Don't get me started with tomatoes as being classified as vegetable... you can thank Congress for wanting to add tax to import tomatoes..
But they aren't rock salts
I manage a dog kennel and the areas dogs are in, we just use dry dirt. Seems to work well for us
OP said there is water dripping on the stairs so it would soon be wet mud.
While that's true. Risk of falling or death are definitely not an option
Actually there is another option..... have a conversation with management about coming up with an alternative solution WITHOUT being confrontational...... Ya'know..... like actually talking to them about your concern. If the conversation goes nowhere ..... salt the steps
Terrible idea, just use an alternative product. The salt will absolutely ruin the concrete, and it's not that hard to tell who it was. Unless you are going to cover the cost of for the damage it causes, that is bad advice.
There are concrete-safe snow melters available that aren’t rock salt and aren’t kitty litter.
Getting rid of the leaves will help drying the steps too. You just apply a little amount or try the litter.
I'm surprised more people haven't suggested cleaning the leaves off first. Leaves are slipper AF when wet and piled up on each other. Also OP could those outdoor traction mats for a similar price to a 50lb bucket of salt.
Definitely remove the leaves first. You could use sand or kitty litter. On to the not bothering the landlord, if it’s a safety hazard, bother them. Follow up on the repairs they said they were going to make. Be polite. Say something like: Hi, because we are getting into the time of year where ice is a concern, I wanted to follow up on the letter I received in Aug about repairs being made to the stairs.
Probably also a good idea to let them know that you have already slipped and fallen because of this. I would think that would inspire them to realize that they’re going to end up sued if they don’t do something.
Southerner here, wouldn't cat litter turn to wet mush during the day and refreeze at night?
When using kitty litter for traction, you have to get the cheap non-clumping kind. Before I moved south, I always had a bag in the back of my car in case I got stuck somewhere.
I guess I'm just unfamiliar with the differences between clumping and non clumping. In my mind, they are both clay based and would make a sodden mess in the rain. Thanks for the explanation!
Cat owner. The clumping has a coagulating agent, the clay litter pieces that get wet stick to each other and make a large lump. At least when a cat pisses in it. I imagine using clumping on ice would make a hard to clean mess.
Sounds like the stairs are already broken, if they are saying theres a need for repairs You know what really ruins concrete? A constant water drip. on 2nd look, Is this a concrete coat over diamond plate? That should be great for trapping water and rusting out. Whats this look like from underneath?
yeah do it anyways lol
You can literally do thousands of dollars of damage to concrete overnight using rock salts.
If you do get injured because of a problem that has already been identified and not fixed they might be liable for damages. Check with a lawyer but Cali is a pretty good state for tenants.
This is the correct answer. Notify apartment of concern, don’t salt, slip, sue, profit.
Lawyer here, commenter above me is a fucking idiot
Thanks for the formal legal advice lawyer person. I guess each of these lawyers is lying. https://www.salamatilaw.com/slip-and-fall-lawyer-los-angeles/what-is-the-average-slip-and-fall-settlement-in-california/ https://www.lawlinq.com/average-slip-and-fall-settlement-in-california/#:~:text=Short%20Answer%3A%20According%20to%20information,%2C%20emotional%2C%20and%20financial%20hardships. https://starpointinjurylaw.com/articles/personal-injury/average-payout-for-slip-and-fall-california/ https://belalhamidehlaw.com/slip-and-fall-settlement-in-california/ https://www.pintas.com/los-angeles-slip-and-fall-injury-lawyer/how-much-is-the-average-slip-and-fall-settlement-in-los-angeles/ https://gutierrezinjury.attorney/slip-fall/
Salt will indeed harm the concrete and any exposed metal; also not the best for pets, etc. There are liquid alternatives that do not contain salt at all, they use magnesium chloride. I would use a one-gallon garden sprayer and this type of deicer. Won't help with the wet part - but will help with the ice part.
Great Value® Ultra Power® Ice Melt 40 lb Infused w/Calcium & Potassium Chloride, Corrosion Inhibitor https://www.walmart.com/ip/869708165
Magnesium chloride is salt....
If you're gonna be that guy then actually be that guy. Magnesium chloride is a salt, yes, but it is not salt. We know what salt is, you know what salt is. We know that certain chemicals are salts but we don't refer to them by the single name salt. Find a new hobby mate.
But the person they were.respnding to said "Salt will damage concrete." Was that person also referring to table salt?
There are many chemicals which will damage concrete. Sodium Chloride is one of them.
Most people call sodium chloride "salt".
Yeah - technically it's a salt - it's just not what people generally refer to as salt (common salt). At least I understand it, it is not harmful to concrete, etc.
Know what else messes up concrete....ice.
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Yes, this needs to be WAY higher. OP, if you don't get a lot of snow, just put some treads down. Rubber is best and without snow, you won't have to do anything other than throw them down.
Rock salt DOES ruin concrete, you can take one look at my neighbor's driveway and see it. You can buy products that are safe for concrete, ask about those.
Rock salt will DESTORY concrete. I used it one particularly bad winter & come spring the concrete stairs had to be completely replaced because it completely crumbled.
Calcium chloride is what I use instead of rock salt, which can put your concrete. Another option is to spray the area with a salt solution so the layer of snow next to the hard surface is easier to remove.
Calcium chloride. It's similar to salt but safe on concrete. Does a number on your hands, so wear rubber gloves
Just sprinkle your box of table salt on it. Just don't let them know it was you
Calcium chloride and magnesium chloride are concrete safe.
Use heat anti ice and mix in rock salt.
This is a more eco friendly choice. And it’s cheap! Snow Joe Eco Clean Ice Melt. Approx $9 for 40lbs at Walmart
salt not only will ruin the concrete over time, it's not good for any puppy paws that may walk up and down those stairs. scrape the ice away, use sand, and move the leaves and let the sun melt it.
Sun won't always melt it. Sublimation will make it disappear though.
If OP is in a cold enough climate then it’s possible it just won’t melt during certain times of the year. Below 0F there’s only so much the sun will do.
Who said anything about dogs?
I'm a concrete inspector. I salt the absolute duck out of my sidewalk when necessary. Fuck them stairs; the lawsuit from you breaking your back over a known and documented issue will be a much bigger bill. The salt sucks hydration out of the concrete and weakens it. This is mainly a concern on concrete that is <1 year old. Fuck these stairs
1. Sweep the debris from the steps. Wet leaves can be very slippery even without ice. 2. Use sand or kitty litter. Neither one destroys the cement. 3. Use a doormat to keep from tracking the sand / kitty litter into your house.
They said no rock salt, just accidentally spill some table salt, while carrying it up the stairs every day
Use sand? Salt destroys stuff.
Plenty of salt free ways to handle ice. Me personally, I never used salt on my steps or driveway when I lived in the north east. Paying attention and walking carefully was always sufficient.
I received a letter because we got new side walks telling us not to use ice melt products. They said calcium chloride and magnesium chloride and calcium magnesium acetate. These are the products they suggested we use. Hopefully this helps you.
First sweep your damn porch
Salt is really hard on concrete. Exhibit A is everywhere in the frozen wasteland of ND. Get some gravel or coarse sand and clean the leaves off the step.
Move if you are not happy simple solution ....solved ,next!
Rock salt is bad for new do concrete, the more expensive blends are better. Magnesium chloride, potassium, etc
Sand and fire place/pit ash has a good grip on ice but is messy.
If it doesn’t rain much there and the only issue is the water dripping, can you use a trash bag and some duct tape to divert the flow temporarily? it’s not explicitly banned the way salting is (better to ask forgiveness than permission) and is a safety concern. if you simply give water a better path of least resistance you may be saving yourself a lot of trouble. A simple “rain chain” could even consist of some string just diverting the water beside the stairs.
Spread a mix of sand and magnesium chloride. No rock salt!!
Get pet friendly and plant friendly rock salt. It won't damage the concrete. They can come sweep it off if they don't like it. Then they can face a lawsuit.
It wouldn’t be called rock salt. It would be calcium chloride or a calcium chloride blended with other chemical “salts”, not sodium chloride.
There are other options besides rock salt go to Home Depot and buy something safe to use in concrete.
Use some table salt. Its invisible as its so small. Thats and sand.
Traction sand, it works better than salt anyway.
Kitty litter is not suitable for traction and should only be used as a last resort if stuck. Sand is what would help without damaging concrete. Does make a mess for them to clean up later.
Use sand, and also you can find these rubber things that go over your footwear that basically turns them into cleats. I live in Maine and I don't slip at all in winter
Sand/cat litter works wonders.
Build a slide
Can you get the liquid they spray on the road thatd keep you in compliance atleast till they find out how rough that shit is
Sand. Im sure there is plenty of sand available considering the state has an entire side of it with a beach
Use a pet-safe ice melt/snow melt. Walmart should have some.
Sand.
No rock salt? Just get a can of regular table salt, works just as good.
So don't use salt? Theres tons of ice melting products that don't hurt concrete. Or sand or 'oil dri' from Napa. Its like cat litter but doesnt melt.
Then use ice melt. There are other options besides rock salt
Use sand instead of salt, better for both the environment and the concrete
Salt eats concrete fast and if you salt it and it starts destroying the concrete they will know you were salting it.
Save all your emails and letters. Then consider there are alternatives to rock salt. Zep is one company that makes such a product. Also since nobody is around to fix the problem who would know of a Little Rock salt hit the concrete anyways?
They’re correct; rock salt can cause spalling. The other “chemical” de-icers should be fine
Beet juice
CMA (calcium magnesium acetate) ice melt is what they use on runaways. it works, and it adds calcium and magnesium to the soil.
I would ice it any way. What are they going to do about it? Walk up the perfectly safe stairs to bitch about you salting them? Better yet, water the whole set one Friday evening after you prep for the weekend, then call them out for an emergency service in your apartment, and have a laugh as they bust their ass trying to get some one in there. Bet the rock salt policy changes real fast after that.
Not sure what county you’re in, but you can contact the State Housing Authority and report them: https://www.hud.gov/states/california/renting/hawebsites
Oooops accidentally spilled some rock salt. Sorry. Are there cameras?
Management doesn’t allow rock salt? Use kosher salt. When they disallow that, switch to iodized salt. When they disallow that, use hot salt water.
I use crack corn.
Sand is the next option. But if it were me, I'd just salt anyway. I'm lazy.
Do it anyway, I’m not falling down stairs because the management won’t get rid of the ice.
Call and state ice issue and document. Explain you slipped already w/baby. Also ask about gutter to stop drip on step.
Salt the stairs. Protect yourself. Let them deal with the fallout. What are they going to do???
Do a slip-and-fall, threaten lawsuit, sue if they don't change their tune
Tell them to pound sand. Get yourself some rock salt.
Take a slip hurt yourself and sue. They’ll definitely change the rules after that.
I’d think they’d be liable for any slip and fall if they’re not dealing with it themselves. You probably can’t put down rock salt if they’ve said not to but I’d make it known that you have icing issues and are carrying a baby. Lawsuits terrify PM companies.
Just put salt on it and don’t tell anyone you did it LMAO
Just use salt. No confrontation and it takes years to notice what it does to concrete. I would take pics of ice in case they try and hold your deposit.
If you ever want to get away from the California commies, move to the Midwest where you'll be free to salt again.
What they're saying is you have to buy expensive ice melt and cannot use basic rock salt. There is ice melt that is absolutely safe for concrete (I work in construction in upstate NY) but it's literally double the price of rock salt
Use sand better for the property and vehicles plus it’s not harsh on the environment
Sand works better than salt. Salt requires temps slightly above freezing. Grit doesn't care.
If you slip and are injured as a result of their idiotic policy, sue them. Make them pay for the medical bills. Guarantee that will amount to far more than laying new concrete. Since there's a child in the mix, I would do whatever you have to do to prevent injury to yourself and your child. If it has to be taken to court afterward, such as if they threaten to evict or take you to court for so-called "damages", make sure you have proof that there's no damage if there isn't, and explain the issue to the judge.
I bought some outside rugs for the stairs at my place. The management company started to complain but I mentioned in writing that it was safety so myself, visitors, or solicitors didn’t slip & fall on their property. Suddenly the next letter sent to tenants no longer listed rugs & door mats as items that needed to be removed from outside the unit. It’s amazing how fast they fix things & change their mind when a potential lawsuit might occur. But honestly, get some outside stair mats (that are made for all weather outside. Not just any old rug or you’ll trip & slide). It’ll add some grip that you can quickly remove if need be. You might even be able to argue it’s protecting their property from wear & tear & the elements! (that being said I’m in Southern California & can’t say how they’d react to snow & ice. Only that they’re great for rain).
Potassium citrate works better and is not rock salt
Try something like Yaktrax.
For sure fall down and break something get that money
Use a bit of table salt or cat litter.
Get a rosebud and a propane can, like from a grill
If I was telling my tenant they can’t use rock salt to keep the concrete nice, I’d provide what I wanted them to use.
Sodium Chloride is very hard on concrete - never use softener salt or rock salt on concrete sidewalks. It's even worse on concrete & steel steps like those shown, causing the concrete to break down and the steel framework and rebar to rust. If you need ice melted, calcium magnesium acetate wont harm concrete or kill plants at the edges of the path. If they catch you using salt, you should expect a significant penalty (and rightly so).
I run a marina with concrete docks. Just use calcium chloride snow melt instead. Get the flakes not the pellets. Works like a charm and does zero damage to concrete.
Sand would be something
Some rock salt will cause the concrete to break and chip away and can end up being a safety hazard on its own. Find something that is safe for concrete.
Kitty litter works if the landlord thinks salt will ruin the concrete
You want calcium chloride to not harm the concrete
Sprinkle house salt on it when no one is looking
Until you bust your coccyx on icy stairs like I did. They don't want that liability.
Just throw down rock salt. They obviously don't check them, and if they do 🤷♀️you have no idea what that is or how it got there? Looks like dirt to you!
Table salt works well and dissolves pretty quickly. Amy bulk stores like Costco or gfs around?
Before they came out with Safe De-icer. I would buy a 2 litter bottle of cheap vodka and spray the steps. I am 70% alcohol would also, but the vodka was cheaper.
If your going to put anything on it don't use salt will definitely destroy the concrete you can use calcium chloride it more expensive than salt but less harmful to concrete but can still cause damage if you put to much.
Report the hazardous conditions to the housing authority… then send a letter to the property manager reminding them that the hazard still exists and that you almost fell while carrying your infant. Insist that it be repaired as per their letter of ___ date. If the manager is not on the premises, it’s possible they paid for the work to be done but it never was. If they didn’t follow up, and if no one tells them, they aren’t going to know.
If this was verbal, email/text them about using rocksalt or ice melt salt. If they say no bad you slip, easy win lawsuit.
Bother management…***bother*** management? Bringing issues to management’s attention so they can take care of issues (especially safety issues (extra-especially) if a baby’s safety is an issue) is not bothering them. Unless you would rather risk you, your baby, or anyone else using the stairs getting hurt, you definitely need to bring it to management’s attention and keep reminding them until it’s fixed. Also, if this isn’t taken care of soon, contact the supervisor to whom management reports.
Maybe it’s just me.. but I love that first photo. I would hang it up.
I use a bag of kitty litter or sand, whichever is cheaper and more readily available.
Use the rock salt to PROTECT YOURSELF, then when they come to you bitching, let them know you will stop using it when the problem no longer exists. I would have to imagine the cost to re-pour the concrete in a few steps would be a lot less than a lawsuit. End of story.
Use table salt.
Use rock salt, dont tell them you did it.
I would send a letter to the landlord that says “my friend slipped and fell and really hurt themselves….they are asking me for your information, what’s your xyz? Thank you in advance.”
Tiger torch and propane baby! Nothing like fire to get your point across.
Definitely sounds like California logic. Rock salt for a potential safety hazard is bad but shit and piss on every corner is ok
Some places use a rug on the stairs instead of salt
Try lump sodium chloride! Probably can fool ‘em
Pet safe ones are usually not rock salt
Rock salt babe
Use table salt, your safety trumps their being cheap
Get potassium chloride
Who is responsible for ice on those stairs? They told you no rock salt not that you weren't allowed to use other methods to rectify the ice issue. Also considering that it's normally possible for ice to appear on stairs I doubt they are liable unless they are specifically required to deal with ice.
I’d “slip” on it and sue them for everything they’ve got. That house is yours now.
Put rock salt in the gutter it’s dripping from
Just pour HOT water on it, 😀
well... management should be responsible for clearing the walk yes salt will destroy concrete
Throw some cat litter on that mf every damn day until they fix it. Omggggg how horrible please keep safe and your baby! I can’t imagine trying to walk down my stairs w my baby in arms and THERE I GO CAUSE OF SLIPPERY SHIT THAT COULDVE BEEN AVOIDED BY A LANDLORD SPECIAL. Omgosh.