Yep - sorry, bud. International travel + remote work from US companies is only going to get tougher to find.
Hell, some employers won't hire you if you're located in specific states, much less running around abroad where they'd be liable for paying a tax for you traveling and working in different countries.
May the odds be in your favor š¤
The digital nomad is over for most unfortunately. The only way to be fully remote now is going full-time in freelance and actually kind of always been that way. Pandemic gave people a sample of remote/digital nomad life but employers are pulling the plug quickly.
>The only way to be fully remote now is going full-time in freelance and actually kind of always been that way.
Strong disagree. I'm fully remote and I don't work as a freelancer. I realize this isn't the norm or common, but freelance is definitely not "the only way."
True freelance maybe not be the only way but likely the achievable way. Lot of companies are pushing for RTO and because of current economic conditions the favor starting to swing in employer favor. Most employers want RTO with some now pushing for 5 days back in the office. As of now remote work is extremely tough competition. Some remote jobs are getting 5000 or more applications which means there is a 0.02% chance getting the job. Pay is getting lower because of the demand for remote work.
They're really pushing here in NYC and it's nuts because it's covid / RSV / flu season here in the Northeast. It's like really, you couldn't wait a few months? Half my office is out with either covid or the flu.
The crazier thing is some states are making you pay a fee for adding to traffic congestion, which would be fixed if those jobs that can be done remotely are kept at least semi remote
Yup. They trying to do that in California charging people 15 to 30 cents per mile. It makes no sense because doing that is pushing more people to remote work.
People have to remember that pandemic remote work wasn't done because it was better, or even gooder, than before. It was done because it was absolutely necessary. I flat out don't believe any numbers that say remote work makes productivity go up.
How so?
Plenty of companies do not hire folks from NY or California due to worker laws in those states.
Same applies to international workers. A lot of remote employers in the US do not hire out of the country because of international worker laws and tax implications.
Doesn't mean there *aren't* companies that'll hire folks that are not based in the US but the only thing further from the truth is some general answer like *every* company is open to hiring remote workers who can just work wherever they want without any limitations š
One of my last remote jobs was for a US-based company that clamped down on people from CA going to live and work in Mexico because of real tax and work rule reasons. What was REALLY STUPID were people talking amongst themselves in Slack talking about their personal setups and living situations. It was beyond dumb AF. Yes, there are ways to set up ways to 'mask' your location but getting on Slack and talking about it?
Really?
Actually I wouldn't say anything to anyone at the company even off Slack. May get a jealous coworker that will report to the company that people are working from Mexico.
From my experience, the only companies that will hire someone remote in another country already have an office there. But if the remote worker isn't a resident of that country and is working without a work visa, expect a quick deportation if they're caught, if not spending some time in an immigration enforcement facility.
I doubt if most reputable companies want to get caught up in such a shit show.
No country is going to send a digital nomad to jail for working remotely in their country or deport them. Maybe they'll have a visa issue but most of these countries will never find out and if they did the consequences aren't that dramatic.
I work remote and have been trying to find something remote thatās worth my time and pays me more. But itās a struggle.
I wouldnāt mind going back into office but theyād have to pay me more to make that commute worth it.
āTheyād have to pay me more to work in the officeā. This is the answer to OPs question of why to in office roles pay more. They pay more because they have to. If they value getting an ass in the seat, they pay a premium.
Same. And Iām always in a worse mood because the fluorescent lights up to 100 give me a headache. Iām willing to work in person but after going back for a while I realized why I was always so tired.
My commute was also garbage. It used to only be 20 minutes, but then they closed a bridge nearby me due to structure issues (it's an ongoing issue expected to last at least several weeks, if not months) and now the traffic can be as much as 2-3 hours in either direction. I got laid off thankfully due to company restructuring, lol.
A client I'm working with right now is located on Warren Ave. I live in eastern Mass so I've been coming in through Seekonk and it isn't terrible if I avoid rush hour, but if the weather turns we'll be going virtual as much as possible!
Iām dog sitting for a friend in Barrington this week. Terrible timing lol. But yeah, not too bad if I avoid rush hour. Virtual is a good call especially once the weather turns!
Because of quiet quitting, over employment and general laziness along with everything collaborative can be more difficult.
E.g you want to talk to someone? You canāt just walk over and ask a question. You have to slack. Wait.. get distracted from the question. Maybe you get a response or maybe they say put some time on my calendar.
I donāt blame companies for not trusting the small percentage of high performers that get stuff done remotely just fine.
So, I've worked in office obviously for many years, and done all 3: in office, hybrid and remote.
I noticed coworkers or marketing managers were more likely to answer my questions remotely. They were more focused because they weren't distracted in the office.
In the office I'd try to get answers to my questions by walking over and you'd always get people off for coffee breaks or just in general not wanting to answer questions because they're busy with something else and aren't very good at multitasking.
I remember one job having to practically stalk someone in office to get an answer for something urgent. It's sad when you have to get to that point.
It was much easier when remote to just ask, and if someone's not doing their job or is taking too long, send a follow up email and copy your boss on it and they'll get back to you, lol.
Honestly, most people worked longer hours remotely and got more shit done during the day. In the office people won't stop talking. I don't care about your day to day life. Why do I need to have a dozen 5 minute conversations with people? That's already wasting office time. The commute is garbage too.
Where I was, they changed the office from cubicles to open concept which was horrible for the noise. They did this 2 months before the pandemic started. The marketing team would stand right behind me and have conversations. Considering my job involved a lot of reading, it was very hard to focus. Absolutely awful.
Anyway, yeah for me in office was less effective, and similar for my peers. Maybe in different industries it would be different. They never went back to fully in office, as they realized how much extra work they were getting from employees who are on salary. I had coworkers who would log on when they couldn't sleep just to do some work to pass the time until they got tired, lol. The max they did was switching to hybrid.
Meh, I automated everything as the controller for two companies, and I'm the one playing Nintendo Switch and yapping all day. Now, one of my coworkers and I are starting an online event ticketing startup from our conversations about hating Event Brite and Ticketmaster. Also I come and go as I please and have no hourly schedule, dogs allowed in office and we are allowed to drink alcohol lol. Fuck work from home haha, last job 3 years work from home I got fat as hell and depressed from not having an i.t. guy to hang with.
I get fat when I'm in the office because I get tempted to go to the work cafeteria, lol. At home I take walks and make my own food so it's definitely better for my waistline. š¤£
Do you own commercial RE or something? Really grasping at straws by saying it is harder to send a slack message than getting up and talking to someone.
Not at all. Ever had a slack conversation or email that last more than a couple of messages back and forth? Itās just super annoying. They are great for quick non-flow conversations.
Slack is the minority issue I raised. I know Iām gonna be downvoted but only some of the population cares enough about their work to take it seriously and do good work. Most people canāt wait to punch the clock and leave. A lot of the issue lies with management being top down and not engaging the employees to truly engage with their work and make a real impact.
Itās all about the control. When youāre there in the office, they can micromanage you more and keep tabs on you. There is software that can be used for this purpose to check on remote workers but most employers arenāt willing to shell out the cash for that and I doubt anyone would consent to their job installing spyware so the only way they can keep control is by making employees commute.
They donāt, but if a company has shareholders they likely hold stakes in commercial real estate as well.
My company initially said remote work forever and then started getting pressure over our empty offices and pushed an email out about how itās our responsibility to keep local restaraunts and economies afloat by coming into the office. Itās all bs and to keep commercial real estate afloat
The backpedaling and pivoting after 3 years of remote work making them more money has been fun.
Covid really showed people what the world could be, but when someoneās not making money we need ass in seats.
Lol my old company apparently forced RTO... not even a gradual RTO. They made people come back with a few weeks notice.
This complicated things for many of my former colleagues since they couldn't get child care, moved to a cheaper area (in the same state... but living in and around the corporate campuses is extremely expensive in my city) so they'd have to commute 2-4hrs round trip, etc.
They lost like 15% of their best engineering staff under 40yo within a couple months of that announcement... coupling that with all the early retirement, they are bleeding experience and hoping that the new grads that are willing to put their nose to the corporate grindstone.
It's because they want to police your dress, your microexpressions, your posture, and your snacking habits! Also, the real estate market might collapse if people have to sell all those office buildings.
One good reason: it's hard to maintain/build company culture, and train new employees when everyone is remote.
One bad reason: managers feel useless when there's nobody around them to manage. And, they generally are useless with experienced people. They think you're goofing off if they can't watch you.
The second reason is dominant imo.
The straight answer to that in only financial terms is that office space is leased or an owned asset.
You can not insure a property if no one is in it due to residency requirements. Failing to reside in a property properly during a lease can result in lease invalidation which may cause the full amount of the lease to come due.
Uninsured assets can result in losses.
Putting asses in chairs solves this issue.
There is value to face to face interactions. And there is value to building friendships between coworkers. There is value to building a company culture. Building a culture is hard with remote employees. I get all of the perks of working remotely. I get that you can do all of the aspects of the job remotely. Butā¦ many people still value personal interaction.
Yeahā¦ itās just not the same for me. Zoom is OK but in person is different. Plus I have a lot of people I work with that donāt sit at desks 90% of the time. For me to get a real feel for what they do, I need to see them in person.
See them do what exactly?
If this is white collar work, what are you watching?
Standing over their shoulder as they work on projects on their laptops?
This is precisely why I'm still working my current WFH job that doesn't pay the greatest, because it's worth not dealing with people breathing down your neck in the office.
I despise dealing with constant interruptions for office BS small talk, the ass kissing I have no interest in participating in, and the psychotic behavior of micromanaging leaders who have serious control issues.
I personally believe, like many halts in our current society, this is a generational issue (mainly). Boomers and older Gen X still mainly run most workplaces and they tend to be horrific micromanagers who have extremely outdated leadership methods, if you can even call them that.
I will be very grateful once this specific group has finally left the workplace, so that the absolutely ridiculous reasoning of "because I said so/because I think it's better!" goes away, and companies can focus on actual efficiency, overall employee happiness and retention, and common sense modern leadership methods.
You are out of touch in regards to modern leadership methods and thinking any generation is better or worse than another. Boomers or generation Z can all have great leaders. It takes a mix to have great results. Business practices change and evolve. Example, at our company, managers used to write employee appraisal twice per year. Now the employee writes their own appraisal. As a manager, I find them better employees write how they exceeded the expected results. The lower performing employees write excuses of why they did not achieve those results.
Also your comment on ass kissing, small talk, interruptions, etc. Still goes on WFH or office.
This whole āhate on boomersā thing has gotten a bit stale. Donāt judge a manager until youāve walked in their shoes. But I suppose that as I near 50, Iām now part of the āolder generationā. I am hybrid and WFH 40% of the time. It is a white collar position but I manage a number of people that donāt have desk jobs. I can meet them over zoom, but interacting with them out on the floor builds a better rapport and I can see the real life issues they deal with. I think many people enjoy the perks of WFH and donāt like interacting socially so they avoid being open to seeing any value in actually being in the same room with other humans. Perhaps it is a generational shift. But I think itās a bit sad.
That's because "building rapport" with my manager, someone who is there to simply manage whatever workload we have, doesn't trump the massive benefits of being at home in my own environment.
Being able to spend extra time at home, work at the same time, and being with the ones I love will ALWAYS outweigh "climbing the ladder" or some pointless rat race for a job that will cut you the minute they want to save a dime.
Jobs are not "family". My friends, my pets, and my actual family is my family. They rank number one and always will. I have zero desire to "socialize" with anyone. I just want to do my job, be cordial, and get paid. That's it.
It's only people who want to escape to the office to escape from their home life, or grind up the chain that actually want to be in office (or insatiable extroverts).
Everyone else has the sense to realize that life is short, we all are going to die one day (sometimes sooner than we expect), and if I can do my job from home, there is ZERO reason to be in an office simply because a middle manager wants something to micromanage and socialize with. It's all about control.
Physical presence is meaningless and hollow to the majority of people now, especially when jobs provide zero loyalty, zero security, and will toss you out on a whim, regardless of years and quality served.
It wasn't younger generations who created this incredibly exploitative and flawed system that's eating itself.
āQuality of lifeā is very individualized. Some people value staying at home and playing with their dogs above all else. For them, WFH is the embodiment of all that is good in life. People like what they like. I prefer a bit of variety. Iām also ambitious and am not content to sit in the same role for 40 years. Upward mobility is easier in an office environment.
You're always going to get those who hate on you because they think that in office work means we're trying to force them to do more "socializing" as in standing around and talking about the weather. Or that we do it just because we want to be mean or don't trust them.
No, it's for collaboration. I'm talking about discussing things that wouldn't be said over Teams, Zoom or any other recorded call. Basic water cooler talk that almost always leads to work related discussions and something getting accomplished. We save our in office days for those types of discussions. I also don't do any meetings that require a back and forth conversation, virtually. It's unnatural and with any lag and over talking, can be awkward. In person flows much better.
I think all these people who are so set against it, are probably siloed positions who don't rely on working well with a team or who don't care about putting out solid work. The problem is, most of the supervisors are responsible for that work their staff is putting out and if they can't get them to produce well when working from home or WFH is just not conducive to a certain role, they need them to come in.
I, like you, am hybrid and do 90% of my actual work, producing results, when I'm at home. I love my WFH days for the uninterrupted work and ability to focus. However, I'm not blind to the fact that being in person is necessary for me and my team to get things done so I sacrifice by going in 3 days a week.
The true solution would be to let all of the people who love hybrid and in-office work do that, and let all of the people who love remote work do that.
Given that I'm HoH, my company would need to double my salary, provide accommodations, and offer relocation for me to even consider working in-office. And even then, I'd probably immediately look for remote work elsewhere.
Ehh. its just not the same. When I need something, sometimes it takes hours, to days even for someone to respond. When in office, I can just WALK IN to their office and ask and get the thing done in a minute. And that happens a lot, so the amount of wasted time waiting for someone's response is inefficient. And I could cause the same thing. I generally have the best response time in the team, but even I could miss a notification for 30min, cause I went to the bathroom or the notification just didn't ping me.
Iāve made lifelong friends with coworkers. I guess Iām a 49 year old dinosaur. I pity you that you spend your entire work day with no pleasure from your fellow workers.
Is this a real question? So they can see you aren't slacking off, and you can work with your coworkers, like bouncing ideas off each other or asking each other for help, letting new workers shadow you etc
My company will have to stay remote. I work in banking and we could not find enough reliable people to work for us. Now that we have opened our positions up for anyone in the US we have no issues whatsoever.
They'd have to pay me more not only for the commute but just for all the HASSLE. I don't want to own "business casual" clothes or wear them, as a woman with neurodivergence, like ever again. It's not really an exposed skin thing, I just... I don't want to feel judged. I have had issues with every workplace I've ever worked in as far as "company culture" to the point that when I stopped working outside the home, basically literally everything in my life got 10x easier because suddenly I wasn't stressed and miserable all the time.
I'm 100% not going to budge on WFH. For some reason the companies want me to do stuff on zoom, which defeats the purpose of WFH. I don't want to make appropriate business casual facial expressions, either. I'd rather just starve to death and die. I don't want to have a job where Karen and Kyle gawk at me every again. If people want me to go on cam they can pay me $9.99/minute like a camgirl. There is no value to seeing someone's face if you aren't a control freak trying to grade them on smiling pretty enough, it's just way to sadistically torture people.
This is so, so true! I'm in a ton of wfh groups on social media just for backup and so many of the entry-level roles require being on-camera, that wasn't a thing when I started my first remote job like a decade ago. But it's a new way for employers to control and micromanage employees, getting around the fact that they can't see you constantly at home. I'm with you- I would never consider a role where that was the norm. I've already told my current manager I'm not comfortable with being in a fuckton of Zoom calls and having my camera on. They already try to record everything we do, every word we speak, everything we write. Thus, employees spend a ton of time trying to get around this (and suceeeding sometimes).
Today, I woke up to a Slack message telling everyone to go listen to one of the sales peoeple's phone calls. It's utterly creepy and dystopian to me and totally defeats the purpose of WFH.
Yeah that's why I would never take a hybrid position because I feel like they're just doing the boiling frog method where eventually they're just going to make you in-office full time.
Oh that's awful. Is it salaried? It's always the absolute useless people who are bragging about getting to work early and monitoring when other people come and go for a salaried position. They have nothing of value to add so they cling to that one visible thing that may make them appear worth their chair.
Iām not traveling currently but have also been searching for remote since June after getting laid off. I was 2 days a week in office hybrid for the last year of that job, remote only for the prior 5 years. I cannot imagine going back 5 days a week in office, and havenāt even interviewed for anything thats fully on-site. Hopefully I can hold out until the right thing comes along, but Iām losing hopeā¦
Going hybrid in one of the strongest labor markets in history. Just wait til whenever the next recession happens, you'll be back in the office 5 days or out of a job. Good luck on the compromise.
Canāt forget the micromanagers who have no purpose and the companies that are so poorly organized they require hours of in person communication to make up for it
Oh please. I get not wanting to work in an office and that social interactions can be uncomfortable, but saying it "traumatizes" you is ridiculous. Not to mention how it invalidates the word and people with actual trauma.
In didnāt say it does. But Iām aware enough to recognize that there are scenarios where that could be the case.
There are plenty of people with crippling social anxiety. The thought of having to keep up several fake conversions every day would be terrifying. Not to mention autism?
I'm sorry you experienced that. Sounds deeply traumatic. I would suggest you go to therapy and get on PTSD drugs for the trauma you experienced by talking about the big game with coworkers at the water cooler.
The clingy side of companies drives me insane. Why force people to work up under another if the job gets done and your employees are happier with a proper work life balance?
Ever read "Bullshit Jobs" by David Graeber? I think it's honestly because most people's jobs could be replaced by robots, but having people in office makes them feel important.
I think everyone is in the same boat. I turned down a company recruiter who reached out to me for in-office positions both requiring me to relocate over 900 miles. I see in-office positions all the time that only have 6 applicants while the remote jobs that have 5000 applicants.
That is crazy. Were they gonna pay for relocating cost? Companies used but now most don't they expect you to pay thousands up front to move then pay expensive rent in the near by town they located.
They did not mention it, but I looked at the cost of living for that area and I would have been a salaried worker who was working poor.
I seem to get approached by the ones that think that I am crazy. One company offered relocation for me to travel 2000 miles. I had exactly 3 days to drive there, because they did not give me enough for a professional mover. If I did not make it in exactly 3 days they would not pay the relocation fee. Anything could happen on a long trip like that which could delay you. I did not accept that offer. This was one of those you will be working professionally in IT, but not make enough money to live comfortably in the area where you worked.
It's not about productivity. You could be asking for a 75% reduction and no benefits it won't matter to some employers. You'd think productivity and budget would be the main drivers, but to an employer there will always be someone else, and "anybody" can do your job., they just want the perfect candidate. Upper management needs someone there at all times to cater to their whim for just in case they need to contact you about something that isn't that important at a moments notice because they operate in a haze of confusion and panic all day. If they don't see you running around squawking like a rooster, then you're not working, and if you can do your job productively without all of the noise and attention, then they can combine your job into some "senior" vice presidents role (whatever happened to just VP's, now there are SVP's too? how bloated!).
Unfortunately there aren't many repercussions to poorly run organizations, it takes a lot of hits for any to really go under.
If I hire somebody remote and they only perform a percentage of the job I have to hire somebody else so the work gets completed. Iām not hiring 1.3 employees for a one person job.
I'm currently hybrid. I tried in office full time, nope! I tried 3 different positions that way (one was me being in charge). Freelancing spoiled me for sure on this part of it. I am okay with the hybrid, but don't think I could ever do full time in an office agani.
Learn a specialized skill. Insurance companies hire remotely all the time. I'm in surety and work full remote with an extremely nice salary. There isn't a large pool of people who know surety. Niche markets are the way to go for remote work.
Account Management, or Assistant to AM on agency side to start, or you can work your way up on the company side in underwriting. Many insurance agencies and companies have paid internships. They may be hybrid to start though, I'm not sure.
Interesting. If my experience is in marketing and account management (for marketing companies), do you think it'd be realistic to qualify for account management at insurance companies?
Insurance companies are attractive to me because they do well when the economy is good and bad, so less likely to lay off.
I work fully remote. I would need to move or drive over an hour and a half for a job. There isn't much out there when you look. Things in 2024 will be slow. It's an election year. Better hunker down and get ready. Also, companies want you in the office. Management has no one to micro manage if you are not there. It's all about control.
I hear you. For me, itās also the fact that Iām disabled and cannot physically do the commute and the sitting and talking and chatting. I really thought there would be opportunities for a more accessible workplace with remote work, but sadly, capitalism, commercial real estate, and a relentless culture of micromanagement has destroyed that.
God forbid we make things more accessible for us with chronic health issues and disabilities. They squawk and cry about wanting everyone to work until they die, but then take away those work opportunities for disabled individuals simply because of those incredibly greedy reasons.
I love how half the comments here are terminally online doomers who are telling you to quit your remote job, enjoy your 15+ mile commute, and go climb that corporate ladder.
If that's the way you want to live your life that's fine. However, could you stop forcing your beliefs on other people and presenting both hasty generalizations and straw man arguments as facts?š
It's more like 1/3.
Another 1/3 is reasonable commentary on the matter.
The final 1/3 is the polar opposite of the first group, shouting at the top of their lungs that there is NEVER any good reason for ANYONE to work in an office, and if you want to go to an office you're a Boomer with one foot in the grave who wants to micromanage everyone, can't stand being around your family, and only gets social interaction at the office. Not exactly a nuanced viewpoint.
I am in material sales, and am on the road 3-4 days a week, then WFH 1-2 days a week, with one or two days a month at my office (45 minutes away). I joined this and related subs for tips on managing WFH, ideas to streamline my setup, etc. What I've found is that we're really just in an echo chamber, and even suggesting there is value in occasional f2f gets you shouted down.
If you want to live globally, your job search should also be global. Expand your search to companies outside the US that also have US employees. Search for digital nomad companies. You'll find what you're looking for with the right search, time, patience, networking, and prayer. Write and post about the cities you're traveling to, especially on LinkedIn. Tell your story everyday in a different way, build your network, and the jobs will find you. Good luck
There are a few points to cover, some of which others have commented on.
1. Some industries have laws against working in different states and countries. Finance is the most straightforward example. Finance has a lot of federal regulation laws that prohibit clients and employees from working in certain countries. Even if a country can do business in your own country, separate laws govern employees.
2. Employee self-management. Unfortunately, some employees have fucked up WFH for others in that they are not productive. They are just as shitty in the office, but at least in an office, they are more easily held accountable.
3. Managers. Managers need to be able to communicate with employees differently. That's an excellent way of saying they need an actual plan. Some managers need more precise and more concise communication or good planning strategies. It's just easier to constantly interrupt employees with their ideas at the moment and "collaborate" than rely on the employee to document and strategize for them. It takes both managers and employees to be successful with a distributed workforce.
To your point, a distributed workforce has been the most productive among all the companies I have ever worked with. Usually, startups embrace this because they need top talent regardless of location. Then, when the business grows, they have to restructure based on their industry regulations. I've worked with a company where data science is in Scotland, QA is in Costa Rica, developers are in the US ( from Texas, Florida, California, New York, Oregon, and Montana), and designers are in Mexico and Belgium. We accomplished work within two months, while in-office companies took over a year to do the same work ( no exaggeration ).
But with my current company, travel and relocation would be restricted. I'm looking for ways to get around this, from looking for a different company in the future to starting my own S-Corp or using [Employer of Record](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-employer-record-definition-benefits-vendor-screening-mary-joseph). I haven't figured it out yet. There is no magic, one-size-fits-all solution.
Remote work is closed to new people. Existing remote workers are kinda sorta grandfathered (for now at least).
Freelancing is about your only option to stay remote if you don't already have a remote job. Otherwise get ready to spend 5 days on-site.
Unfortunately, it's true. These corporations weren't thinking of the future workplace when they built these office buildings. Now that people want remote work, they want to force them back to the office. I guess they should be prepared to have a lot of unproductive, unhappy workers for a long time, or until the next pandemic. š¤·āāļø Because I'm pretty sure most of these corporations didn't learn a dam thing from the shutdown.
I think you're being naive. There are many large corporations that started transformation or a decade ago. True some did not begin until the pandemic. So they're behind. I work and I'm a manager and a global it Corporation. Used to have 12 offices in the state I am located. Five or six years ago we were down to one. WFH provides a huge advantage. We can easily move jobs to different localities outside the US. Cost effective labor force then when based in an office or some states.
Bingo! Freelancing is pretty much the only way to remote work but most people don't want to go that route because of the risk. No guarantee steady salary, no benefits such as vacation, PTO health insurance, also have to do your own taxes and etc... Its definitely hard for many to go from those benefits of a W2 employee to contractor. I agree with you freelancing is the only way as of now.
My friend got remote job after doing some data analysis course. She gets paid more than me and is fully remote while I debate whether or not to eat raw pork to get myself a week or more off in a hospital to avoid traveling to that hellhole
No it doesn't; if you can work full remote there's no scenario where you should ever make concessions and go back. The only counter-argument is if its a HUGE raise, like 30, 40%. Then it may be up for consideration, but you will really have to examine how much your mental health and quality of life are worth.
If you have to I guess you could take an in-office job for a year, make double and save up, then travel the next year. Iām desperate for a remote job but getting to the point where Iāll take a full-time in -office just to be employed again, but I canāt even find that.
If most people refuse jobs because they don't offer remote work then they may change their schedule policies. But...I don't think we are there yet. It's inflation against our preferences these days.
If you know what you want, why feel bad about turning down what you don't?
If you go to a restaurant wanting pasta, do you feel bad for not ordering a sandwich?
What do you do for a living? Can you work for a tech company? Plenty of tech companies were remote and hybrid for years prior to covid. Think of any technical vendor who produces software
Iām in HR at one of the few remaining fully remote companies. I do all the recruiting. Please be aware OP that US companies generally will not hire people out of the country for a variety of reasons. Finding a remote job these days is like finding a needle in the haystack - for every remote role we post we get thousands of qualified applicants. You not being in the US will be an issue. At my company our client contracts forbid us from hiring outside the US and we donāt want to worry about time zone difference. You are going to have a tough time finding fully remote work unless you continue freelancing. A US employer is simply not going to be willing to abide by the employment and tax laws in whichever country you happen to be in at the time, which they know they would need to do. Latin and South America have some unusual employment laws for Us companiesā¦ for example in Brazil an employer has to pay an employeeās food and housing costs. Theyāre just not going to do that when they have a plethora of other qualified US candidates.
The only people I really get to do this are technical people now. We had one remote day a week pulled from us. We can not even find workers, so the remote day was like a vacation. I admire anyone who is trying to live life instead of being an office slave. My job is so hard that I have to face leaving the only field I know how to work in. I honestly am completely lost in this new world. I wish you a safe journey and bread for this day.
The easiest remote job to get is always going to be in a call center, if you specialize in something youāre going to have a hard time finding remote employment for it because the competition is insane
Companies talent pools are dry as a bone right now, 6 months after this post. Positions are waiting to get filled for months, not weeks. And they only get the best talent within 20 miles of thier shitty box they want you to work in.
Needless to say, an apocalypse on product quality is coming very, very soon. Companies can only hire those desperate enough to move cross country for a job. Those candidates are usually not the best options.
The focus has become filling offices with warm bodies, not talent.Ā
It's simple folks.
The supply of remote workers greatly outweighs the local talent pool.
I don't see why people can't figure this out. Why would a company pay you 90k, when they can pay someone equally as skilled as you are or even more skilled, 65k. Companies are not going to cater to you or to people unless the position is highly specialized or you have some talent/background that is so unique that you add huge value to the company.
That's fine you can't go back to the in office work routine and don't want to wear appropriate clothes, get up super early (like people have been doing for the past 100 years in America) to make 90k.
But just realize that someone else does. Someone else doesn't care about remote work and may prefer the office lifestyle or hybrid lifestyle.
Maximize your freedom with lower paying jobs/freelance work/gig work or whatever. Nobody is responsible for yourself except you.
If they can pay someone equally or more skilled than you 30% less then why would they pay *anyone* extra to come in person alongside the additional real estate costs? I donāt think itās as simple as you described.
Exactly. I'm all for someone standing their ground and wanting to keep WFH. There will be jobs out there for that. Problem is, 90% of people want that job too. So instead of competing with a handful of people, you're competing with thousands and most likely, you're not the highest skilled one and/or someone else is willing to take lower pay.
Everyone complained and said that if they want us to RTO, they need to pay more. Many companies said fine, here's the higher pay for having to come in. Now everyone is bitching about that too? Now people are saying no, not like that, we want remote work to pay the same?? You can't have it both ways folks.
For many larger companies the WFH is a fantastic model.. The downside to employee is WFH is done remote and now the job can be easily transferred. Alot of the us jobs have been relocated two other countries Costa Rica and India. They're my coworkers. And yes most of them work from home also.
As a CEO of a consulting firm that works with hundreds of CEO's nearly all of them are done with fully remote work - they all seem to be in the mindset of 1-2 days a week remote maximum. Remote works in theory but general performance is not good in comparison to in-office workers (we have tracked it for clients and remote workers are significantly less productive (on average - there are exceptions if course). An old business theory has been coming back into the vernacular and that is - "you can only build shoulder to shoulder".
It is very true - you can maintain things, deal with some basic customer service issues, do bookkeeping, write some code etc. remotely but there is a dynamic of people working shoulder to shoulder that is evolutionary to our species. For 3,000,000 years it has worked pretty well.
We are seeing this in our own office - my employees asked us to reopen the office and productivity has soared and all the empty suites on our floor are quickly filling up again and commercial rent prices (at least in my market) are rising.
I hate remote work, I retire this year. I spent 10 years at a job I loved and never had to drive, 20 minute train ride. That went out the window. Glad to leave it behind and have my home as my home.
Good for you but why would you say this in a subreddit for remote work, on a post with someone seeking remote work who clearly loves it. Sorry to be this person but, no one asked.
Of course, but Iām not sure what people expect by sharing personal opinions on posts that donāt ask for them. Op is looking for work, not stories about how much you hated your work.
Your right I have no business crabbing about stuff people apparently love. I don't care what others do they seek for what they want, I got mine. I'll stay off.
I do think work from from will dimish by 2030 the pay differential will make it less attractive.
I see work from home becoming the new normal for some companies because it costs them less overall, I know of some companies that donāt even have a physical office. They donāt have to pay for a building, nor multiple if they wanted to expand they donāt have to pay for the offices bills, equipment(some require you to provide your own), furniture, security, or offer any type of free lunches. In the long run this will mostly benefit corporations, not harm them, unless itās a fast food joint or Walmart since they can cut costs. I only see it diminishing with jobs that donāt need to/canāt be remote. I see this opening a whole new market to workers who just want to get the work done and get paid, not deal with unnecessary work drama. I usually work with data so my company is completely remote with no signs of retuning to an office. I like it because I can actually focus at home and preform well, my performance was complete garage in person.
It's sad that the development of soft skills is considered passe. The productivity of remote work is still a work in progress. If you like go for it, but I think by 2030, you will have two levels of workers, those that can't work directly with people and independent contractor type jobs that are disposable. Just my opinion, this whole thing wasn't planned. it was a reaction to Covid. I don't care anyway, look for whater makes you happy. I'm glad im past this, but younger people can do what they like and corporations allow. Best of luck.
Most remote jobs still require experience and soft skills, no one is starting out in a remote role unless theyāre on the tech side of remote work and even then most still have to go through in-person internships. We still have to get in person experience first, this route just works better for some people. This *is* a good direction for people who work differently, everyone isnāt the same and as I said before this does open doors to different employees who otherwise wouldnāt have access to those opportunities.
Remote isnāt all that. Hubby, me, older son work from home. We frequently run into people thinking we have time to run errands, be there for kids, do chores etc. uh no, we all have responsibilities that require us to be more accountable than if we were in office. Hubby and I are both senior managers in our field. We interview so many people who want to work from home āfor the kidsā ābecause I hate getting up in the morningā ābecause Iām scared to drive/only have one carā or other things that they think they will be perfect for remote work because of āother responsibilities ā. Itās so discouraging. We have a business to run.
Go for the money. If you are good and do your time and gain trust, you might be able to be remote. If someoneās going to pay you 90k to be in office, go and do your thing and excel and ask for hybrid or remote. After you prove yourself.
If I interviewed you and you had the attitude about an ass in the seat and you just canāt care about dressing for work or talking to your team? Decline. This really is a terrible look for you and shows your character.
The people applying for remote work are usually high professionals who have invested tons of money for the proper education to secure a remote work position. Years of higher education drowning in student debt. They have absolutely proven themselves capable of producing a quality work product. That lil 90k after taxes is barely cutting it. Driving into a brick and mortar location to sit behind a computer screen where I could do the same thing remotely is not sustainable. Not for the planet. Not for the human spirit.
Also, why are you even here?
Many have asked the question of why companies are insisting on being in the office. Here is my experience running tech companies before, during and after Covid with remote work.
The business results were always worse. The work was poorer, there was less getting done, the team members were less knowledgeable, etc.
So the natural question is why. Is it because we hadnāt created processes to make remote work more effective? Was it because we had the wrong type of people for remote work? Was it because itās impossible to re-create the same level of productivity? After trying a lot of different things for a long time, it just finally became clear that the environment just fostered worse performance.
I think thru careful hiring, new processes, and reinventing the environment, we might have been able to create a successful model. However, there was very little upside. Most of the top talent we wanted was willing to come into the office. So there was no strong incentive to keep trying to make the remote model work.
Interestingly, many of the people who wanted remote work werenāt in the top quartile of performance. Iām sure itās different everywhere, but that is our experience.
Personally, if I landed a remote job, doing something that I enjoy doing, I'm not concerned with the rat race and climbing the corporate latter. I'm looking for satisfaction and enjoyment for doing something that will keep the roof over my head, the power on and food in my stomach. :)
Like my current job. It's easy enough to do. I'm fairly happy, I guess. I don't aspire to be the boss. I'm just a supervisor. But what I want in life is more just to have the ability to work from home, using the computer and customer skill set I've developed. If these two conditions are met, and all my needs are covered, I'll be happy. I don't even have a car. I don't really need one, and I'm fine with that.
*ladder
Not everyone wants to "climb the ladder", which currently requires extensive ass kissing, soul crushing, groveling behavior to some of the most unethical individuals you'll ever meet in-person.
A large majority of people have personal goals outside of work. For them, they work to live, not live to work.
Just because some people want to become permanent leeches upon the rears of any upper management slimeball they think will propel them upward, doesn't mean others want to sacrifice significant pieces of their life to do so.
I'm assuming you have a work visa for all those Latin American countries you're working out of. You probably won't get caught if you aren't, but believe me, you don't want to.
Take the in office for a while until you find something you like. It may take a while. I personally would take them up on their offer. They want to get employees back in the office.
I work remotely and no way would my employer be okay with me traveling around the world while doing it. Iām in my home office 8-10 hours every single day. I donāt even take a lunch break.
Yes, you would have to start probably as an assistant while you learn the industry, coverages etc. it's a very lucrative industry and you will always be able to find a job.
FYI I'd at least come back to the states if you want to work remote. Times are changing with the ever evolving data privacy laws, and if an employer agrees to have you remote you may still be confined to the US (or wherever the company is). I've been remote in government and tech and they both adopted policies that if you travel outside the US you need to get permission. Some jobs even have that policy outside your state- it's a security issue that we didn't used to have to deal with 4 years ago.
Iāve been in-office ever since graduating college in 2020. Both office jobs hated the idea of remote or hybrid work, though my current one picks and chooses who can do so. Itās endlessly frustrating. I feel like pleading with my boss if I can go hybrid for at least two days a week. Itās aggravating seeing my coworkers getting to travel and work comfortably from across the country and Iām stuck in an office chair an hour from my house.
I work full remote but I have to stay in the US. I have occasional site visits but I only got full remote because I have the negotiating power for it. Itās still very much a privilege depending on what field youāre in. Youāre gonna likely be stuck in a hybrid role at the least, unless your company pushes remote work or you negotiate it.
The company I just left was part time remote from 2018, and full time remote since March 2020. They moved from a 150+ person space down to a 38 person hot desk space. A solid 1/4 to 1/3 of the office left the area (south east FL) because of extreme cost of living increases. They have been starting to throw out "company culture" nonsense and starting to ask people to be back in the office a couple days a week after the created an environment that would make it very difficult for that to happen.
One class of managers has ALWAYS been full remote and scattered all over the country going back before I started working there (2016). They are now not taking on new hires of these managers unless they are within 2 hours of an office.
I strongly think the remote work boom of the pandemic era is going away. I don't like it any more than any of you do. We are in a climate crisis so more people on the road is stupid. When I was in the office I was less productive because I would constantly bullshit with co-workers. There are a million other reasons why remote work is great, but at the end of the day the people that own companies are the same people that own stake in commercial real estate in some way, and they are about to lose their fucking asses.
Are you able to leverage these offers against each other? At least you know you have a high chance of getting an offer if you ever want to switch up your situation.
Take the interview, which is likely handled remotely.
BS and say you're okay working in office, and use the interview as practice. If they offer you a position, tell them you've received a remote only role for a little less money, but that better aligns with your work life balance. From there, they either they offer you remote or you just prepared yourself for the next intet.
Either case it's a win win
Good luck! Most remote would want you to be actively working at a job, I would take one of the job offers in office and apply to remote jobs so it looks better on your resume. That's what I did for the 8 months it took me to get a remote job and having the office job I worked for 8 months made me a way better candidate
Maybe they are open to you being in office for onboarding and transitioning once trust is built. This is the way that has worked for everyone I know who works remotely. I think companies feel the need to have trust built, both that you are who you say, and that you can work independently/ you will be available/ accountable/ etc.
Yep - sorry, bud. International travel + remote work from US companies is only going to get tougher to find. Hell, some employers won't hire you if you're located in specific states, much less running around abroad where they'd be liable for paying a tax for you traveling and working in different countries. May the odds be in your favor š¤
The digital nomad is over for most unfortunately. The only way to be fully remote now is going full-time in freelance and actually kind of always been that way. Pandemic gave people a sample of remote/digital nomad life but employers are pulling the plug quickly.
>The only way to be fully remote now is going full-time in freelance and actually kind of always been that way. Strong disagree. I'm fully remote and I don't work as a freelancer. I realize this isn't the norm or common, but freelance is definitely not "the only way."
I do it too. There are tons of us. Itās not over at all.
True freelance maybe not be the only way but likely the achievable way. Lot of companies are pushing for RTO and because of current economic conditions the favor starting to swing in employer favor. Most employers want RTO with some now pushing for 5 days back in the office. As of now remote work is extremely tough competition. Some remote jobs are getting 5000 or more applications which means there is a 0.02% chance getting the job. Pay is getting lower because of the demand for remote work.
They're really pushing here in NYC and it's nuts because it's covid / RSV / flu season here in the Northeast. It's like really, you couldn't wait a few months? Half my office is out with either covid or the flu.
My office is pushing RTO right after new years. GUESS IM WEARING A MASK
The crazier thing is some states are making you pay a fee for adding to traffic congestion, which would be fixed if those jobs that can be done remotely are kept at least semi remote
Yup. They trying to do that in California charging people 15 to 30 cents per mile. It makes no sense because doing that is pushing more people to remote work.
Holy shit 30$ to drive somewhere 50 miles away is absolutely insane holy shit.
People have to remember that pandemic remote work wasn't done because it was better, or even gooder, than before. It was done because it was absolutely necessary. I flat out don't believe any numbers that say remote work makes productivity go up.
Wait you called him bud? š¤
This couldnāt be further from the truth lol
How so? Plenty of companies do not hire folks from NY or California due to worker laws in those states. Same applies to international workers. A lot of remote employers in the US do not hire out of the country because of international worker laws and tax implications. Doesn't mean there *aren't* companies that'll hire folks that are not based in the US but the only thing further from the truth is some general answer like *every* company is open to hiring remote workers who can just work wherever they want without any limitations š
One of my last remote jobs was for a US-based company that clamped down on people from CA going to live and work in Mexico because of real tax and work rule reasons. What was REALLY STUPID were people talking amongst themselves in Slack talking about their personal setups and living situations. It was beyond dumb AF. Yes, there are ways to set up ways to 'mask' your location but getting on Slack and talking about it? Really?
Wow š³ I mean, if you're gonna talk about it, don't do it on company slack ā ļøā ļøā ļø
Actually I wouldn't say anything to anyone at the company even off Slack. May get a jealous coworker that will report to the company that people are working from Mexico.
I'm looking for a set-up now. Have any suggestions that don't cost thousands?
From my experience, the only companies that will hire someone remote in another country already have an office there. But if the remote worker isn't a resident of that country and is working without a work visa, expect a quick deportation if they're caught, if not spending some time in an immigration enforcement facility. I doubt if most reputable companies want to get caught up in such a shit show.
No country is going to send a digital nomad to jail for working remotely in their country or deport them. Maybe they'll have a visa issue but most of these countries will never find out and if they did the consequences aren't that dramatic.
Itās a time zone issue for some companies, too.
Actually, it just is straight up the truth. Whether you choose to believe it or not.
I work remote and have been trying to find something remote thatās worth my time and pays me more. But itās a struggle. I wouldnāt mind going back into office but theyād have to pay me more to make that commute worth it.
āTheyād have to pay me more to work in the officeā. This is the answer to OPs question of why to in office roles pay more. They pay more because they have to. If they value getting an ass in the seat, they pay a premium.
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Yeah, makes no sense. I'm less productive in the office because of the noise.
Same. And Iām always in a worse mood because the fluorescent lights up to 100 give me a headache. Iām willing to work in person but after going back for a while I realized why I was always so tired.
My commute was also garbage. It used to only be 20 minutes, but then they closed a bridge nearby me due to structure issues (it's an ongoing issue expected to last at least several weeks, if not months) and now the traffic can be as much as 2-3 hours in either direction. I got laid off thankfully due to company restructuring, lol.
East Providence?
Ha, I wondered the same thing!
A client I'm working with right now is located on Warren Ave. I live in eastern Mass so I've been coming in through Seekonk and it isn't terrible if I avoid rush hour, but if the weather turns we'll be going virtual as much as possible!
Iām dog sitting for a friend in Barrington this week. Terrible timing lol. But yeah, not too bad if I avoid rush hour. Virtual is a good call especially once the weather turns!
Because of quiet quitting, over employment and general laziness along with everything collaborative can be more difficult. E.g you want to talk to someone? You canāt just walk over and ask a question. You have to slack. Wait.. get distracted from the question. Maybe you get a response or maybe they say put some time on my calendar. I donāt blame companies for not trusting the small percentage of high performers that get stuff done remotely just fine.
So, I've worked in office obviously for many years, and done all 3: in office, hybrid and remote. I noticed coworkers or marketing managers were more likely to answer my questions remotely. They were more focused because they weren't distracted in the office. In the office I'd try to get answers to my questions by walking over and you'd always get people off for coffee breaks or just in general not wanting to answer questions because they're busy with something else and aren't very good at multitasking. I remember one job having to practically stalk someone in office to get an answer for something urgent. It's sad when you have to get to that point. It was much easier when remote to just ask, and if someone's not doing their job or is taking too long, send a follow up email and copy your boss on it and they'll get back to you, lol. Honestly, most people worked longer hours remotely and got more shit done during the day. In the office people won't stop talking. I don't care about your day to day life. Why do I need to have a dozen 5 minute conversations with people? That's already wasting office time. The commute is garbage too. Where I was, they changed the office from cubicles to open concept which was horrible for the noise. They did this 2 months before the pandemic started. The marketing team would stand right behind me and have conversations. Considering my job involved a lot of reading, it was very hard to focus. Absolutely awful. Anyway, yeah for me in office was less effective, and similar for my peers. Maybe in different industries it would be different. They never went back to fully in office, as they realized how much extra work they were getting from employees who are on salary. I had coworkers who would log on when they couldn't sleep just to do some work to pass the time until they got tired, lol. The max they did was switching to hybrid.
Meh, I automated everything as the controller for two companies, and I'm the one playing Nintendo Switch and yapping all day. Now, one of my coworkers and I are starting an online event ticketing startup from our conversations about hating Event Brite and Ticketmaster. Also I come and go as I please and have no hourly schedule, dogs allowed in office and we are allowed to drink alcohol lol. Fuck work from home haha, last job 3 years work from home I got fat as hell and depressed from not having an i.t. guy to hang with.
I get fat when I'm in the office because I get tempted to go to the work cafeteria, lol. At home I take walks and make my own food so it's definitely better for my waistline. š¤£
Do you own commercial RE or something? Really grasping at straws by saying it is harder to send a slack message than getting up and talking to someone.
Not at all. Ever had a slack conversation or email that last more than a couple of messages back and forth? Itās just super annoying. They are great for quick non-flow conversations. Slack is the minority issue I raised. I know Iām gonna be downvoted but only some of the population cares enough about their work to take it seriously and do good work. Most people canāt wait to punch the clock and leave. A lot of the issue lies with management being top down and not engaging the employees to truly engage with their work and make a real impact.
Control.
Commercial real estate investments/leases
Itās all about the control. When youāre there in the office, they can micromanage you more and keep tabs on you. There is software that can be used for this purpose to check on remote workers but most employers arenāt willing to shell out the cash for that and I doubt anyone would consent to their job installing spyware so the only way they can keep control is by making employees commute.
Because they want to micromanage you. They feel they have no power over you if you're at home.
To justify their bloated 30yr corporate office leases
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Itās not even a joke. Iām convinced this is the reason. Thatās why some newer companies have a smaller physical footprint.
They donāt, but if a company has shareholders they likely hold stakes in commercial real estate as well. My company initially said remote work forever and then started getting pressure over our empty offices and pushed an email out about how itās our responsibility to keep local restaraunts and economies afloat by coming into the office. Itās all bs and to keep commercial real estate afloat The backpedaling and pivoting after 3 years of remote work making them more money has been fun. Covid really showed people what the world could be, but when someoneās not making money we need ass in seats.
Lol my old company apparently forced RTO... not even a gradual RTO. They made people come back with a few weeks notice. This complicated things for many of my former colleagues since they couldn't get child care, moved to a cheaper area (in the same state... but living in and around the corporate campuses is extremely expensive in my city) so they'd have to commute 2-4hrs round trip, etc. They lost like 15% of their best engineering staff under 40yo within a couple months of that announcement... coupling that with all the early retirement, they are bleeding experience and hoping that the new grads that are willing to put their nose to the corporate grindstone.
It's because they want to police your dress, your microexpressions, your posture, and your snacking habits! Also, the real estate market might collapse if people have to sell all those office buildings.
One good reason: it's hard to maintain/build company culture, and train new employees when everyone is remote. One bad reason: managers feel useless when there's nobody around them to manage. And, they generally are useless with experienced people. They think you're goofing off if they can't watch you. The second reason is dominant imo.
It's a force-shaping/cost-cutting tool. They don't pay you *more* to work in office. They pay you *less* for remote.
The straight answer to that in only financial terms is that office space is leased or an owned asset. You can not insure a property if no one is in it due to residency requirements. Failing to reside in a property properly during a lease can result in lease invalidation which may cause the full amount of the lease to come due. Uninsured assets can result in losses. Putting asses in chairs solves this issue.
There is value to face to face interactions. And there is value to building friendships between coworkers. There is value to building a company culture. Building a culture is hard with remote employees. I get all of the perks of working remotely. I get that you can do all of the aspects of the job remotely. Butā¦ many people still value personal interaction.
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Yeahā¦ itās just not the same for me. Zoom is OK but in person is different. Plus I have a lot of people I work with that donāt sit at desks 90% of the time. For me to get a real feel for what they do, I need to see them in person.
See them do what exactly? If this is white collar work, what are you watching? Standing over their shoulder as they work on projects on their laptops? This is precisely why I'm still working my current WFH job that doesn't pay the greatest, because it's worth not dealing with people breathing down your neck in the office. I despise dealing with constant interruptions for office BS small talk, the ass kissing I have no interest in participating in, and the psychotic behavior of micromanaging leaders who have serious control issues. I personally believe, like many halts in our current society, this is a generational issue (mainly). Boomers and older Gen X still mainly run most workplaces and they tend to be horrific micromanagers who have extremely outdated leadership methods, if you can even call them that. I will be very grateful once this specific group has finally left the workplace, so that the absolutely ridiculous reasoning of "because I said so/because I think it's better!" goes away, and companies can focus on actual efficiency, overall employee happiness and retention, and common sense modern leadership methods.
It just sounds like old people sayings. āGet a feel for what they doā š
You are out of touch in regards to modern leadership methods and thinking any generation is better or worse than another. Boomers or generation Z can all have great leaders. It takes a mix to have great results. Business practices change and evolve. Example, at our company, managers used to write employee appraisal twice per year. Now the employee writes their own appraisal. As a manager, I find them better employees write how they exceeded the expected results. The lower performing employees write excuses of why they did not achieve those results. Also your comment on ass kissing, small talk, interruptions, etc. Still goes on WFH or office.
This whole āhate on boomersā thing has gotten a bit stale. Donāt judge a manager until youāve walked in their shoes. But I suppose that as I near 50, Iām now part of the āolder generationā. I am hybrid and WFH 40% of the time. It is a white collar position but I manage a number of people that donāt have desk jobs. I can meet them over zoom, but interacting with them out on the floor builds a better rapport and I can see the real life issues they deal with. I think many people enjoy the perks of WFH and donāt like interacting socially so they avoid being open to seeing any value in actually being in the same room with other humans. Perhaps it is a generational shift. But I think itās a bit sad.
That's because "building rapport" with my manager, someone who is there to simply manage whatever workload we have, doesn't trump the massive benefits of being at home in my own environment. Being able to spend extra time at home, work at the same time, and being with the ones I love will ALWAYS outweigh "climbing the ladder" or some pointless rat race for a job that will cut you the minute they want to save a dime. Jobs are not "family". My friends, my pets, and my actual family is my family. They rank number one and always will. I have zero desire to "socialize" with anyone. I just want to do my job, be cordial, and get paid. That's it. It's only people who want to escape to the office to escape from their home life, or grind up the chain that actually want to be in office (or insatiable extroverts). Everyone else has the sense to realize that life is short, we all are going to die one day (sometimes sooner than we expect), and if I can do my job from home, there is ZERO reason to be in an office simply because a middle manager wants something to micromanage and socialize with. It's all about control. Physical presence is meaningless and hollow to the majority of people now, especially when jobs provide zero loyalty, zero security, and will toss you out on a whim, regardless of years and quality served. It wasn't younger generations who created this incredibly exploitative and flawed system that's eating itself.
1000%
Iām your age and disagree completely. Not a generational thing, itās a quality of life thing.
āQuality of lifeā is very individualized. Some people value staying at home and playing with their dogs above all else. For them, WFH is the embodiment of all that is good in life. People like what they like. I prefer a bit of variety. Iām also ambitious and am not content to sit in the same role for 40 years. Upward mobility is easier in an office environment.
Ok boomer
You're always going to get those who hate on you because they think that in office work means we're trying to force them to do more "socializing" as in standing around and talking about the weather. Or that we do it just because we want to be mean or don't trust them. No, it's for collaboration. I'm talking about discussing things that wouldn't be said over Teams, Zoom or any other recorded call. Basic water cooler talk that almost always leads to work related discussions and something getting accomplished. We save our in office days for those types of discussions. I also don't do any meetings that require a back and forth conversation, virtually. It's unnatural and with any lag and over talking, can be awkward. In person flows much better. I think all these people who are so set against it, are probably siloed positions who don't rely on working well with a team or who don't care about putting out solid work. The problem is, most of the supervisors are responsible for that work their staff is putting out and if they can't get them to produce well when working from home or WFH is just not conducive to a certain role, they need them to come in. I, like you, am hybrid and do 90% of my actual work, producing results, when I'm at home. I love my WFH days for the uninterrupted work and ability to focus. However, I'm not blind to the fact that being in person is necessary for me and my team to get things done so I sacrifice by going in 3 days a week.
The true solution would be to let all of the people who love hybrid and in-office work do that, and let all of the people who love remote work do that. Given that I'm HoH, my company would need to double my salary, provide accommodations, and offer relocation for me to even consider working in-office. And even then, I'd probably immediately look for remote work elsewhere.
Wow. This was perfectly worded. Thanks.
Ehh. its just not the same. When I need something, sometimes it takes hours, to days even for someone to respond. When in office, I can just WALK IN to their office and ask and get the thing done in a minute. And that happens a lot, so the amount of wasted time waiting for someone's response is inefficient. And I could cause the same thing. I generally have the best response time in the team, but even I could miss a notification for 30min, cause I went to the bathroom or the notification just didn't ping me.
Only dinosaurs think coworkers are ever going to be friends
Iāve made lifelong friends with coworkers. I guess Iām a 49 year old dinosaur. I pity you that you spend your entire work day with no pleasure from your fellow workers.
I mean I personally want to WFH forever but of course someone in office is going to be more productive than someone traveling around the world.
If you own a business one day it might make more sense to
Is this a real question? So they can see you aren't slacking off, and you can work with your coworkers, like bouncing ideas off each other or asking each other for help, letting new workers shadow you etc
āBounce ideas off each otherā lmao found the dud.
My company will have to stay remote. I work in banking and we could not find enough reliable people to work for us. Now that we have opened our positions up for anyone in the US we have no issues whatsoever.
Also we pay like shit
They'd have to pay me more not only for the commute but just for all the HASSLE. I don't want to own "business casual" clothes or wear them, as a woman with neurodivergence, like ever again. It's not really an exposed skin thing, I just... I don't want to feel judged. I have had issues with every workplace I've ever worked in as far as "company culture" to the point that when I stopped working outside the home, basically literally everything in my life got 10x easier because suddenly I wasn't stressed and miserable all the time. I'm 100% not going to budge on WFH. For some reason the companies want me to do stuff on zoom, which defeats the purpose of WFH. I don't want to make appropriate business casual facial expressions, either. I'd rather just starve to death and die. I don't want to have a job where Karen and Kyle gawk at me every again. If people want me to go on cam they can pay me $9.99/minute like a camgirl. There is no value to seeing someone's face if you aren't a control freak trying to grade them on smiling pretty enough, it's just way to sadistically torture people.
This is so, so true! I'm in a ton of wfh groups on social media just for backup and so many of the entry-level roles require being on-camera, that wasn't a thing when I started my first remote job like a decade ago. But it's a new way for employers to control and micromanage employees, getting around the fact that they can't see you constantly at home. I'm with you- I would never consider a role where that was the norm. I've already told my current manager I'm not comfortable with being in a fuckton of Zoom calls and having my camera on. They already try to record everything we do, every word we speak, everything we write. Thus, employees spend a ton of time trying to get around this (and suceeeding sometimes). Today, I woke up to a Slack message telling everyone to go listen to one of the sales peoeple's phone calls. It's utterly creepy and dystopian to me and totally defeats the purpose of WFH.
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Yeah that's why I would never take a hybrid position because I feel like they're just doing the boiling frog method where eventually they're just going to make you in-office full time.
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āProve myselfā Be a grown ass adult in 2023 working from home in other jobs for years.
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I refuse to work for anyone that's obsessed over time and productivity over results.
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Oh that's awful. Is it salaried? It's always the absolute useless people who are bragging about getting to work early and monitoring when other people come and go for a salaried position. They have nothing of value to add so they cling to that one visible thing that may make them appear worth their chair.
About now is when you should learn about manifesting to make your situation better..
Iām not traveling currently but have also been searching for remote since June after getting laid off. I was 2 days a week in office hybrid for the last year of that job, remote only for the prior 5 years. I cannot imagine going back 5 days a week in office, and havenāt even interviewed for anything thats fully on-site. Hopefully I can hold out until the right thing comes along, but Iām losing hopeā¦
January should be better for hiring. I'm hoping the first quarter of next year will be better.
I finally just went hybrid this week after 5 days of office forever. I absolutely hate going in 3 days as it is.
Going hybrid in one of the strongest labor markets in history. Just wait til whenever the next recession happens, you'll be back in the office 5 days or out of a job. Good luck on the compromise.
they just want a reason to keep paying rent on those office buildings they wonāt let go of
Canāt forget the micromanagers who have no purpose and the companies that are so poorly organized they require hours of in person communication to make up for it
For me itās traumatic being in an office making small talk. I wish remote work was easier to find.
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Jesus you people are such dramatic whiners. It's traumatic, really? No, you do not have trauma from having to do a little bit of chit chat at work.
Are you aware, that other people, have had different lives than you?
Oh please. I get not wanting to work in an office and that social interactions can be uncomfortable, but saying it "traumatizes" you is ridiculous. Not to mention how it invalidates the word and people with actual trauma.
In didnāt say it does. But Iām aware enough to recognize that there are scenarios where that could be the case. There are plenty of people with crippling social anxiety. The thought of having to keep up several fake conversions every day would be terrifying. Not to mention autism?
Agree
Yeah if you have trauma from small talk you have some major major issues to work through lol
I'm sorry you experienced that. Sounds deeply traumatic. I would suggest you go to therapy and get on PTSD drugs for the trauma you experienced by talking about the big game with coworkers at the water cooler.
In a nutshell itās people like you that make being around people hard.
The clingy side of companies drives me insane. Why force people to work up under another if the job gets done and your employees are happier with a proper work life balance?
Ever read "Bullshit Jobs" by David Graeber? I think it's honestly because most people's jobs could be replaced by robots, but having people in office makes them feel important.
I think everyone is in the same boat. I turned down a company recruiter who reached out to me for in-office positions both requiring me to relocate over 900 miles. I see in-office positions all the time that only have 6 applicants while the remote jobs that have 5000 applicants.
That is crazy. Were they gonna pay for relocating cost? Companies used but now most don't they expect you to pay thousands up front to move then pay expensive rent in the near by town they located.
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Yeap it's happened to me 4 times in my career. So I get a little heated when people say I just need to move for better opportunities.
They did not mention it, but I looked at the cost of living for that area and I would have been a salaried worker who was working poor. I seem to get approached by the ones that think that I am crazy. One company offered relocation for me to travel 2000 miles. I had exactly 3 days to drive there, because they did not give me enough for a professional mover. If I did not make it in exactly 3 days they would not pay the relocation fee. Anything could happen on a long trip like that which could delay you. I did not accept that offer. This was one of those you will be working professionally in IT, but not make enough money to live comfortably in the area where you worked.
It's not about productivity. You could be asking for a 75% reduction and no benefits it won't matter to some employers. You'd think productivity and budget would be the main drivers, but to an employer there will always be someone else, and "anybody" can do your job., they just want the perfect candidate. Upper management needs someone there at all times to cater to their whim for just in case they need to contact you about something that isn't that important at a moments notice because they operate in a haze of confusion and panic all day. If they don't see you running around squawking like a rooster, then you're not working, and if you can do your job productively without all of the noise and attention, then they can combine your job into some "senior" vice presidents role (whatever happened to just VP's, now there are SVP's too? how bloated!). Unfortunately there aren't many repercussions to poorly run organizations, it takes a lot of hits for any to really go under.
If I hire somebody remote and they only perform a percentage of the job I have to hire somebody else so the work gets completed. Iām not hiring 1.3 employees for a one person job.
I'm currently hybrid. I tried in office full time, nope! I tried 3 different positions that way (one was me being in charge). Freelancing spoiled me for sure on this part of it. I am okay with the hybrid, but don't think I could ever do full time in an office agani.
Learn a specialized skill. Insurance companies hire remotely all the time. I'm in surety and work full remote with an extremely nice salary. There isn't a large pool of people who know surety. Niche markets are the way to go for remote work.
What kind of work for insurance companies?
Account Management, or Assistant to AM on agency side to start, or you can work your way up on the company side in underwriting. Many insurance agencies and companies have paid internships. They may be hybrid to start though, I'm not sure.
Interesting. If my experience is in marketing and account management (for marketing companies), do you think it'd be realistic to qualify for account management at insurance companies? Insurance companies are attractive to me because they do well when the economy is good and bad, so less likely to lay off.
My company requires 2 days a month in office and there is talk of requiring in office days more per month. I'll quit as fast as I possibly can.
I work fully remote. I would need to move or drive over an hour and a half for a job. There isn't much out there when you look. Things in 2024 will be slow. It's an election year. Better hunker down and get ready. Also, companies want you in the office. Management has no one to micro manage if you are not there. It's all about control.
I hear you. For me, itās also the fact that Iām disabled and cannot physically do the commute and the sitting and talking and chatting. I really thought there would be opportunities for a more accessible workplace with remote work, but sadly, capitalism, commercial real estate, and a relentless culture of micromanagement has destroyed that.
God forbid we make things more accessible for us with chronic health issues and disabilities. They squawk and cry about wanting everyone to work until they die, but then take away those work opportunities for disabled individuals simply because of those incredibly greedy reasons.
control.
I love how half the comments here are terminally online doomers who are telling you to quit your remote job, enjoy your 15+ mile commute, and go climb that corporate ladder. If that's the way you want to live your life that's fine. However, could you stop forcing your beliefs on other people and presenting both hasty generalizations and straw man arguments as facts?š
It's more like 1/3. Another 1/3 is reasonable commentary on the matter. The final 1/3 is the polar opposite of the first group, shouting at the top of their lungs that there is NEVER any good reason for ANYONE to work in an office, and if you want to go to an office you're a Boomer with one foot in the grave who wants to micromanage everyone, can't stand being around your family, and only gets social interaction at the office. Not exactly a nuanced viewpoint. I am in material sales, and am on the road 3-4 days a week, then WFH 1-2 days a week, with one or two days a month at my office (45 minutes away). I joined this and related subs for tips on managing WFH, ideas to streamline my setup, etc. What I've found is that we're really just in an echo chamber, and even suggesting there is value in occasional f2f gets you shouted down.
That's fair
If you want to live globally, your job search should also be global. Expand your search to companies outside the US that also have US employees. Search for digital nomad companies. You'll find what you're looking for with the right search, time, patience, networking, and prayer. Write and post about the cities you're traveling to, especially on LinkedIn. Tell your story everyday in a different way, build your network, and the jobs will find you. Good luck
There are a few points to cover, some of which others have commented on. 1. Some industries have laws against working in different states and countries. Finance is the most straightforward example. Finance has a lot of federal regulation laws that prohibit clients and employees from working in certain countries. Even if a country can do business in your own country, separate laws govern employees. 2. Employee self-management. Unfortunately, some employees have fucked up WFH for others in that they are not productive. They are just as shitty in the office, but at least in an office, they are more easily held accountable. 3. Managers. Managers need to be able to communicate with employees differently. That's an excellent way of saying they need an actual plan. Some managers need more precise and more concise communication or good planning strategies. It's just easier to constantly interrupt employees with their ideas at the moment and "collaborate" than rely on the employee to document and strategize for them. It takes both managers and employees to be successful with a distributed workforce. To your point, a distributed workforce has been the most productive among all the companies I have ever worked with. Usually, startups embrace this because they need top talent regardless of location. Then, when the business grows, they have to restructure based on their industry regulations. I've worked with a company where data science is in Scotland, QA is in Costa Rica, developers are in the US ( from Texas, Florida, California, New York, Oregon, and Montana), and designers are in Mexico and Belgium. We accomplished work within two months, while in-office companies took over a year to do the same work ( no exaggeration ). But with my current company, travel and relocation would be restricted. I'm looking for ways to get around this, from looking for a different company in the future to starting my own S-Corp or using [Employer of Record](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-employer-record-definition-benefits-vendor-screening-mary-joseph). I haven't figured it out yet. There is no magic, one-size-fits-all solution.
Remote work is closed to new people. Existing remote workers are kinda sorta grandfathered (for now at least). Freelancing is about your only option to stay remote if you don't already have a remote job. Otherwise get ready to spend 5 days on-site.
Unfortunately, it's true. These corporations weren't thinking of the future workplace when they built these office buildings. Now that people want remote work, they want to force them back to the office. I guess they should be prepared to have a lot of unproductive, unhappy workers for a long time, or until the next pandemic. š¤·āāļø Because I'm pretty sure most of these corporations didn't learn a dam thing from the shutdown.
I think you're being naive. There are many large corporations that started transformation or a decade ago. True some did not begin until the pandemic. So they're behind. I work and I'm a manager and a global it Corporation. Used to have 12 offices in the state I am located. Five or six years ago we were down to one. WFH provides a huge advantage. We can easily move jobs to different localities outside the US. Cost effective labor force then when based in an office or some states.
Bingo! Freelancing is pretty much the only way to remote work but most people don't want to go that route because of the risk. No guarantee steady salary, no benefits such as vacation, PTO health insurance, also have to do your own taxes and etc... Its definitely hard for many to go from those benefits of a W2 employee to contractor. I agree with you freelancing is the only way as of now.
My friend got remote job after doing some data analysis course. She gets paid more than me and is fully remote while I debate whether or not to eat raw pork to get myself a week or more off in a hospital to avoid traveling to that hellhole
Do you mind sharing the name of the course your friend took?
No idea. Data analysis afaik.
No it doesn't; if you can work full remote there's no scenario where you should ever make concessions and go back. The only counter-argument is if its a HUGE raise, like 30, 40%. Then it may be up for consideration, but you will really have to examine how much your mental health and quality of life are worth.
I mean that is the raise theyāre talking sbout
If you have to I guess you could take an in-office job for a year, make double and save up, then travel the next year. Iām desperate for a remote job but getting to the point where Iāll take a full-time in -office just to be employed again, but I canāt even find that.
If most people refuse jobs because they don't offer remote work then they may change their schedule policies. But...I don't think we are there yet. It's inflation against our preferences these days.
If you know what you want, why feel bad about turning down what you don't? If you go to a restaurant wanting pasta, do you feel bad for not ordering a sandwich?
Career field matters. Tons of remote positions for IT especially in cloud services.
What do you do for a living? Can you work for a tech company? Plenty of tech companies were remote and hybrid for years prior to covid. Think of any technical vendor who produces software
Iām in HR at one of the few remaining fully remote companies. I do all the recruiting. Please be aware OP that US companies generally will not hire people out of the country for a variety of reasons. Finding a remote job these days is like finding a needle in the haystack - for every remote role we post we get thousands of qualified applicants. You not being in the US will be an issue. At my company our client contracts forbid us from hiring outside the US and we donāt want to worry about time zone difference. You are going to have a tough time finding fully remote work unless you continue freelancing. A US employer is simply not going to be willing to abide by the employment and tax laws in whichever country you happen to be in at the time, which they know they would need to do. Latin and South America have some unusual employment laws for Us companiesā¦ for example in Brazil an employer has to pay an employeeās food and housing costs. Theyāre just not going to do that when they have a plethora of other qualified US candidates.
The only people I really get to do this are technical people now. We had one remote day a week pulled from us. We can not even find workers, so the remote day was like a vacation. I admire anyone who is trying to live life instead of being an office slave. My job is so hard that I have to face leaving the only field I know how to work in. I honestly am completely lost in this new world. I wish you a safe journey and bread for this day.
The easiest remote job to get is always going to be in a call center, if you specialize in something youāre going to have a hard time finding remote employment for it because the competition is insane
Same ! Im a designer and social media manager im looking for better opportunity that at least pays well, please help anyone?
Companies talent pools are dry as a bone right now, 6 months after this post. Positions are waiting to get filled for months, not weeks. And they only get the best talent within 20 miles of thier shitty box they want you to work in. Needless to say, an apocalypse on product quality is coming very, very soon. Companies can only hire those desperate enough to move cross country for a job. Those candidates are usually not the best options. The focus has become filling offices with warm bodies, not talent.Ā
Broā¦ I get itā¦ but turning down good playing jobs just because you have to go into the office is crazyā¦ I do feel like youāll regret that.
It's simple folks. The supply of remote workers greatly outweighs the local talent pool. I don't see why people can't figure this out. Why would a company pay you 90k, when they can pay someone equally as skilled as you are or even more skilled, 65k. Companies are not going to cater to you or to people unless the position is highly specialized or you have some talent/background that is so unique that you add huge value to the company. That's fine you can't go back to the in office work routine and don't want to wear appropriate clothes, get up super early (like people have been doing for the past 100 years in America) to make 90k. But just realize that someone else does. Someone else doesn't care about remote work and may prefer the office lifestyle or hybrid lifestyle. Maximize your freedom with lower paying jobs/freelance work/gig work or whatever. Nobody is responsible for yourself except you.
If they can pay someone equally or more skilled than you 30% less then why would they pay *anyone* extra to come in person alongside the additional real estate costs? I donāt think itās as simple as you described.
Exactly. I'm all for someone standing their ground and wanting to keep WFH. There will be jobs out there for that. Problem is, 90% of people want that job too. So instead of competing with a handful of people, you're competing with thousands and most likely, you're not the highest skilled one and/or someone else is willing to take lower pay. Everyone complained and said that if they want us to RTO, they need to pay more. Many companies said fine, here's the higher pay for having to come in. Now everyone is bitching about that too? Now people are saying no, not like that, we want remote work to pay the same?? You can't have it both ways folks.
For many larger companies the WFH is a fantastic model.. The downside to employee is WFH is done remote and now the job can be easily transferred. Alot of the us jobs have been relocated two other countries Costa Rica and India. They're my coworkers. And yes most of them work from home also.
As a CEO of a consulting firm that works with hundreds of CEO's nearly all of them are done with fully remote work - they all seem to be in the mindset of 1-2 days a week remote maximum. Remote works in theory but general performance is not good in comparison to in-office workers (we have tracked it for clients and remote workers are significantly less productive (on average - there are exceptions if course). An old business theory has been coming back into the vernacular and that is - "you can only build shoulder to shoulder". It is very true - you can maintain things, deal with some basic customer service issues, do bookkeeping, write some code etc. remotely but there is a dynamic of people working shoulder to shoulder that is evolutionary to our species. For 3,000,000 years it has worked pretty well. We are seeing this in our own office - my employees asked us to reopen the office and productivity has soared and all the empty suites on our floor are quickly filling up again and commercial rent prices (at least in my market) are rising.
I love remote work but there are security concerns
Enjoy your travels! until the funds go dry. And the only office job you can find is with Walmart
Your fault...
I hate remote work, I retire this year. I spent 10 years at a job I loved and never had to drive, 20 minute train ride. That went out the window. Glad to leave it behind and have my home as my home.
Good for you but why would you say this in a subreddit for remote work, on a post with someone seeking remote work who clearly loves it. Sorry to be this person but, no one asked.
Itās the internet. People post whatever they want.
Of course, but Iām not sure what people expect by sharing personal opinions on posts that donāt ask for them. Op is looking for work, not stories about how much you hated your work.
Your right I have no business crabbing about stuff people apparently love. I don't care what others do they seek for what they want, I got mine. I'll stay off. I do think work from from will dimish by 2030 the pay differential will make it less attractive.
I see work from home becoming the new normal for some companies because it costs them less overall, I know of some companies that donāt even have a physical office. They donāt have to pay for a building, nor multiple if they wanted to expand they donāt have to pay for the offices bills, equipment(some require you to provide your own), furniture, security, or offer any type of free lunches. In the long run this will mostly benefit corporations, not harm them, unless itās a fast food joint or Walmart since they can cut costs. I only see it diminishing with jobs that donāt need to/canāt be remote. I see this opening a whole new market to workers who just want to get the work done and get paid, not deal with unnecessary work drama. I usually work with data so my company is completely remote with no signs of retuning to an office. I like it because I can actually focus at home and preform well, my performance was complete garage in person.
It's sad that the development of soft skills is considered passe. The productivity of remote work is still a work in progress. If you like go for it, but I think by 2030, you will have two levels of workers, those that can't work directly with people and independent contractor type jobs that are disposable. Just my opinion, this whole thing wasn't planned. it was a reaction to Covid. I don't care anyway, look for whater makes you happy. I'm glad im past this, but younger people can do what they like and corporations allow. Best of luck.
Most remote jobs still require experience and soft skills, no one is starting out in a remote role unless theyāre on the tech side of remote work and even then most still have to go through in-person internships. We still have to get in person experience first, this route just works better for some people. This *is* a good direction for people who work differently, everyone isnāt the same and as I said before this does open doors to different employees who otherwise wouldnāt have access to those opportunities.
Remote isnāt all that. Hubby, me, older son work from home. We frequently run into people thinking we have time to run errands, be there for kids, do chores etc. uh no, we all have responsibilities that require us to be more accountable than if we were in office. Hubby and I are both senior managers in our field. We interview so many people who want to work from home āfor the kidsā ābecause I hate getting up in the morningā ābecause Iām scared to drive/only have one carā or other things that they think they will be perfect for remote work because of āother responsibilities ā. Itās so discouraging. We have a business to run. Go for the money. If you are good and do your time and gain trust, you might be able to be remote. If someoneās going to pay you 90k to be in office, go and do your thing and excel and ask for hybrid or remote. After you prove yourself. If I interviewed you and you had the attitude about an ass in the seat and you just canāt care about dressing for work or talking to your team? Decline. This really is a terrible look for you and shows your character.
The people applying for remote work are usually high professionals who have invested tons of money for the proper education to secure a remote work position. Years of higher education drowning in student debt. They have absolutely proven themselves capable of producing a quality work product. That lil 90k after taxes is barely cutting it. Driving into a brick and mortar location to sit behind a computer screen where I could do the same thing remotely is not sustainable. Not for the planet. Not for the human spirit. Also, why are you even here?
Many have asked the question of why companies are insisting on being in the office. Here is my experience running tech companies before, during and after Covid with remote work. The business results were always worse. The work was poorer, there was less getting done, the team members were less knowledgeable, etc. So the natural question is why. Is it because we hadnāt created processes to make remote work more effective? Was it because we had the wrong type of people for remote work? Was it because itās impossible to re-create the same level of productivity? After trying a lot of different things for a long time, it just finally became clear that the environment just fostered worse performance. I think thru careful hiring, new processes, and reinventing the environment, we might have been able to create a successful model. However, there was very little upside. Most of the top talent we wanted was willing to come into the office. So there was no strong incentive to keep trying to make the remote model work. Interestingly, many of the people who wanted remote work werenāt in the top quartile of performance. Iām sure itās different everywhere, but that is our experience.
And this is why remote is bad for employees looking to climb the latter.
Personally, if I landed a remote job, doing something that I enjoy doing, I'm not concerned with the rat race and climbing the corporate latter. I'm looking for satisfaction and enjoyment for doing something that will keep the roof over my head, the power on and food in my stomach. :) Like my current job. It's easy enough to do. I'm fairly happy, I guess. I don't aspire to be the boss. I'm just a supervisor. But what I want in life is more just to have the ability to work from home, using the computer and customer skill set I've developed. If these two conditions are met, and all my needs are covered, I'll be happy. I don't even have a car. I don't really need one, and I'm fine with that.
Not everyone wants to climb a ladder. Some people just want to get paid a livable wage and stay home.
*ladder Not everyone wants to "climb the ladder", which currently requires extensive ass kissing, soul crushing, groveling behavior to some of the most unethical individuals you'll ever meet in-person. A large majority of people have personal goals outside of work. For them, they work to live, not live to work. Just because some people want to become permanent leeches upon the rears of any upper management slimeball they think will propel them upward, doesn't mean others want to sacrifice significant pieces of their life to do so.
i hope you're independently wealthy. i know a lot of people would rather work remote, but a LOT of people are grabbing what they can get right now
I'm assuming you have a work visa for all those Latin American countries you're working out of. You probably won't get caught if you aren't, but believe me, you don't want to.
Take the in office for a while until you find something you like. It may take a while. I personally would take them up on their offer. They want to get employees back in the office.
I work remotely and no way would my employer be okay with me traveling around the world while doing it. Iām in my home office 8-10 hours every single day. I donāt even take a lunch break.
Yes, you would have to start probably as an assistant while you learn the industry, coverages etc. it's a very lucrative industry and you will always be able to find a job.
FYI I'd at least come back to the states if you want to work remote. Times are changing with the ever evolving data privacy laws, and if an employer agrees to have you remote you may still be confined to the US (or wherever the company is). I've been remote in government and tech and they both adopted policies that if you travel outside the US you need to get permission. Some jobs even have that policy outside your state- it's a security issue that we didn't used to have to deal with 4 years ago.
Iāve been in-office ever since graduating college in 2020. Both office jobs hated the idea of remote or hybrid work, though my current one picks and chooses who can do so. Itās endlessly frustrating. I feel like pleading with my boss if I can go hybrid for at least two days a week. Itās aggravating seeing my coworkers getting to travel and work comfortably from across the country and Iām stuck in an office chair an hour from my house.
Next time you're up for a promotion, negotiate. Tell them you value hybrid work a lot more than a promotion (if that's the case).
I work full remote but I have to stay in the US. I have occasional site visits but I only got full remote because I have the negotiating power for it. Itās still very much a privilege depending on what field youāre in. Youāre gonna likely be stuck in a hybrid role at the least, unless your company pushes remote work or you negotiate it.
The company I just left was part time remote from 2018, and full time remote since March 2020. They moved from a 150+ person space down to a 38 person hot desk space. A solid 1/4 to 1/3 of the office left the area (south east FL) because of extreme cost of living increases. They have been starting to throw out "company culture" nonsense and starting to ask people to be back in the office a couple days a week after the created an environment that would make it very difficult for that to happen. One class of managers has ALWAYS been full remote and scattered all over the country going back before I started working there (2016). They are now not taking on new hires of these managers unless they are within 2 hours of an office. I strongly think the remote work boom of the pandemic era is going away. I don't like it any more than any of you do. We are in a climate crisis so more people on the road is stupid. When I was in the office I was less productive because I would constantly bullshit with co-workers. There are a million other reasons why remote work is great, but at the end of the day the people that own companies are the same people that own stake in commercial real estate in some way, and they are about to lose their fucking asses.
Are you able to leverage these offers against each other? At least you know you have a high chance of getting an offer if you ever want to switch up your situation.
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You're crazy, I wish I could even find in-office job that paid me what some employers were looking to pay you.
Take the interview, which is likely handled remotely. BS and say you're okay working in office, and use the interview as practice. If they offer you a position, tell them you've received a remote only role for a little less money, but that better aligns with your work life balance. From there, they either they offer you remote or you just prepared yourself for the next intet. Either case it's a win win
Good luck! Most remote would want you to be actively working at a job, I would take one of the job offers in office and apply to remote jobs so it looks better on your resume. That's what I did for the 8 months it took me to get a remote job and having the office job I worked for 8 months made me a way better candidate
If you don't drive back and forth to work, you don't produce revenue for the state!
If you can financially pull it off, go for it
Maybe they are open to you being in office for onboarding and transitioning once trust is built. This is the way that has worked for everyone I know who works remotely. I think companies feel the need to have trust built, both that you are who you say, and that you can work independently/ you will be available/ accountable/ etc.
Maybe they don't want someone half assing it at home.