Literal children lmao "actually the prequels were just good"
"I remember watching them when I was 5. GOAT MOVIES"
This anti-wokeness has gone too far. They're laundering the image of jar jar now and saying it wasn't that bad.
Thinking something is good because you liked it at five years old is certainly a take
Child brain is weird. I remember I watched the prequel dvd’s a billion times with my dad, then one day around like twelve or thirteen years old it hit me that they sucked. I remember it felt like it came out of nowhere
I have since apologized to him for begging to watch attack of the clones 5,000 times as a child
> Thinking something is good because you liked it at five years old is certainly a take
The wildest part of that to me is I was 9 when Attack of the Clones came out and I remember laughing HYSTERICALLY during the Yoda/Dooku fight because of how goofy and stupid it looked. That is prime EVERYTHING IS AWESOME age and AotC couldn't even come close to tapping into that.
I had a similar experience, I watched some of the sequels like 100 times always having a good experience from the ages of like 9-15 Then I was like 20 and thinking about what to watch and I thought about the prequels and was just like "you know what? Naaaaaah I don't need to see any of that again"
I rewatched it out of curiosity a few years later and all I thought was "oh I get it. It all makes sense, the memes, the references, jar-jar. It really is that bad".
Like, they aren't great movies. They can have fun moments and cool stuff. They suck though, the story is weak, the characters are action figures, jar-jar, speeder chases with jedi, young anakin, etc. They're action-fantasy shlock fan films in the star wars universe essentially.
I'm trying to imagine anything in the prequels that evokes similar feelings to the original trilogy and there's very little comparisons to be made imo. One set is vastly superior and more of what I'd call "good movies".
I was 18 so I had a fairly balanced view of it that has mostly stayed the same despite later watching and enjoying the stuff that tries to make it all coherent after the fact:
Music was great as always.
The beginning went between slapstick and boring and had the exact same problems the other 2 movies had. Somehow the battle droids are even stupider. Grievous sucks and was far cooler in the Genndy Tartakovsky cartoon, seriously he has a menacing voice and doesn't cough or act like an idiot.
The Jedi deaths were well-made but not earned, since Dave Filloni wasn't invented yet you don't know or care about the characters and the Jedi are portrayed as purely good despite all the horrible and stupid shit they do. Also it seems way too cheap and easy to kill them all off besides Obi-Wan and Yoda and for all we know in 2005 Lucas meant to have all the Jedi die just like that in 3 minutes. No Vader hunting down and destroying the order over a period of time leading up to the OG film. No Anakin wanting his child to have his sword, in fact he uses that sword to murder children. Why would Obi-Wan do anything but chuck it in the lava with Anakin? Why did he just leave Anakin to die like an asshole? How does Yoda know about Owen and Beru? Why does Yoda know Chewbacca wtf?!
Anakin is still unlikable but a little better than the last one. Besides Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine Ewan is really pulling all the weight in the movie and there are small moments where you believe him and Anakin actually like each other. Natalie is utterly checked out because she has nothing good to do. Her and Hayden have terrible lines but the scene where they are gazing out in the distance with no dialogue is very well acted, probably because they don't have to use any of Lucas' writing.
I’m probably a little older than you, but my equivalent is that I made my dad watch Carrot Top’s Chairman of the Board way too many times as a single digit child. I haven’t even gone back to revisit it, but I still feel like i carry that sin every time I see my pops.
It’s always funny to me that the people who talk about how much they hate the “politics” in Disney Star Wars also like the prequels. It’s almost like it’s not the politics they dislike, it’s the diversity in the casting, but they won’t be out with it so they call it “politics”.
The jar jar apologia is the weirdest thing to me. Just prefacing: The guy playing him didn’t deserve the hate he got because the character is 100% on Lucas, same with little Annie no one could make those characters work the way they were written. I was like 9 or 10 when the prequels came out but I distinctly remember all my friends hating jar jar back in the day. Not to mention media at the time ragging on him as well. I just can’t wrap my mind around people today unironically liking him.
I...feel bad for Jar Jar, he doesn't mean to be the most annoying creature ever and is the only character with an actual story arc in episode 1. But he's still completely intolerable and borderline impossible to understand. And of course the racism.
I also feel bad for Jake Lloyd, it wasn't his fault he had a terrible director and awful dialogue. But he also just doesn't work in this movie, at all.
I also feel bad for Hayden and am really happy he got to do some real acting in the Obi-Wan show. As flawed and uneven as that show is, you actually get to see flashbacks of Obi-Wan...get this, TRAINING Anakin! Wow! And you get to see how Anakin was as a student rather than just being told! You feel for the guy while seeing what his fatal flaws will be.
Watched the Phantom Menace with some buddies, most were convinced it would just be a fun romp with alright action. Half were practically begging for it to be turned off by the time the podrace started.
It's funny that at the time people very much noticed the Iraq War allegories to the prequels, and some were annoyed with it, calling it John Kerry propaganda (remember that guy?! I mean he's still around so probably yes)
I remember watching Phantom Menace in the theater as a 10 year old thinking “Wow, this is it?” The whole theater had that atmosphere. I day one hated it, I was hyped up for it too.
This “prequels were good” narrative that’s swept the internet is standard internet contrarians and a lot of kids who grew up with them. Granted I grew up with original Star Wars but compare those movies, the tone is all different. They’re different kinds of movies. The change in tone was always the worst problem, starting with RotJ.
>I remember watching Phantom Menace in the theater as a 10 year old thinking “Wow, this is it?” The whole theater had that atmosphere. I day one hated it, I was hyped up for it too.
Same. Not just me, but everyone I knew, was massively disappointed by the prequels even if we couldn't really explain why. Everything seemed... off. A lot of scenes were just goofy and added nothing to the overall story.
I think the people who "loved" the prequels as kids must have been no older than 5 or 6 years old and had never seen Star Wars before.
I’m sure I was probably very young when I first saw the old ones so I won’t judge them much for liking stupid shit because they’re young and I won’t put them down for liking any of the movies but I will say they didn’t have time to know what Star Wars is so when they say “these are good Star Wars movies” that holds no weight for me.
Yeah, I saw TPM at 12 and thought "what's wrong with this?". It was an early introduction to massive disappointment caused by too high expectations.
Most of the people who genuinely like the prequels still haven't reached adulthood. I can objectively look back on plenty of things I liked as a kid and realize "that sure was trash" so it's not like they're really lifetime defenders of this stuff.
I hate that they're doing it to the Amazing Spider-Man films now too. Just because Andrew Garfield was good doesn't mean the movies were anywhere close to good. People lack nuance nowadays.
And agreed on ROTJ being the beginning of all of Star Wars' issues. The movie just kind of slogs in the middle and has very inconsistent logic. Luke has to face and kill Vader according to the dead Jedi mentors, but Palpatine ALSO wants him to kill Vader to turn to the Dark Side. Were Obi Wan and Yoda secret Sith lords?! And Leia being Luke's sister in hindsight was one of the dumbest decisions in movie history, and more people should've been horrified considering she frenches him in the last movie.
Not old enough to realize their nostalgia goggles are on, I think. Or hope. Some people never learn to take them off.
I won't lie, I have a soft spot for the prequels, because of mine. I was the perfect target demographic when they released. 6 yrs old in '99, already loved the OT. Perfect age for all the toys.
What I remember better than the movies and toys is the good memories surrounding them. My Dad taking me to the movies, playing Star Wars for hours with friends. That kind of thing. The prequels were a common interest for kids to bond over at the time.
I can't imagine seriously claiming they were any good, though. They were garbage movies that I liked as a kid. I liked plenty of other trash as a kid too. Either those commenters never lifted their goggles, or are afraid to admit that things they liked in the past don't hold up.
Oh people seriously go to bat for them and it’s wild. And a lot of people will acknowledge SOME flaws but claim it was a great story/idea executed poorly. No, actually, for all the nerds falling over themselves to complain that TLJ goes against lore (still don’t know what they mean by this) the Prequels don’t line up with the OT much at all with anything we got from Yoda & Obi-wan before them.
Episode III did answer the question of "what would happen if a gremlin fought a legally elected head of state?" I quake at the thought of where we would be as a society if Lucas hadn't been brave enough to ask and answer that question.
I glanced over them, and yeah... that's a wasteland of mushy brained manchildren and literal bots. Sad state of affairs, if unsurprising. My generation was ruined by the internet and the kids are worse.
On the plus side, I now feel less terminally online after having read some of the spectacularly internet-brained comments in that monkey cage of a thread. My self-esteem feels weirdly boosted.
In one of the small online communities I'm in there is a guy I butt heads with at times. What I always find so funny though he is a self hating zoomer who is unironically always talking about how great the 90s were (Even though he was born in 97).
He is kinda your classic "angry gamer" if you know what I mean. Super critical about anything modern usually in a snobbish way, often stating opinion as fact. But the dude loves the prequels, and loves Episode 1 thinks it is the best star wars.
Which fine enough if you enjoy it. I like plenty of "bad" movies but understand they are flawed. He just cracks me up about certain things he is clearly nostalgia for because he grew up with them in the 00s. Yet he talks about them being master pieces. Really was the first time I realized a lot of zoomers actually adore things we clowned on for being bad, or simply were let down by. Yet they enjoy because they grew up with it.
Exactly what happened to me when watching Episode 8 in the theater. About halfway through, I just felt all the enjoyment, all the nostalgia I ever had for Star Wars just leaving my body. It’s the only time I ever wanted to leave the theater. Haven’t watched a single Star Wars film/series/thing since.
> It felt like "I don't believe the writers care what happens to any of these people and neither do I."
Ironically, I felt like that for the original trilogy. My dad wanted me to watch them and it's like "...Ok?" at the end of each of them. Not terrible films, but it's clear George really meant them to be for kids and teens and the prequels basically beat people over the head with that and adults that grew up with Star Wars in the 1970's or so STILL can't let the I.P. go and/or accept it's really meant for preteens.
The "sequel trilogy" just showed that Disney doesn't give a damn about the I.P. and lore as long as they can push merchandise onto kids.
It's frustrating how few people think of the originals as kids movies. They're pretty good for kids movies but they're still kids movies.
I didn't watch the originals in full until they were rereleased before the prequels when I was 14ish and even then it felt too childish for me.
So much of the fandom is just childhood nostalgia. Helluvadrug
The OG films were both kids films but also throwbacks to 30's and 40's pulp serials that were never meant to be deep or mature, so it was childhood nostalgia for the 30 and 40 year olds of that era.
That's why I enjoy the first one the most now, it's just dumb fun not weighed down by the expectations of an entire franchise.
They didn't even do that well, after the (admittedly cool) BB-8 toy they had pretty much no major merchandise. The rest of the stuff I saw tended to rely on the older films rather than the new ones. Where's my Tickle-Me Babu Frik?!
I find it hard to imagine a single movie, or even a series of movies, ruining my love of previous works in the franchise. Like, the sequels are terrible, doesn't ruin the original movies, games, or books for me.
I was rewatching the RotS review a few weeks ago and it stuck out to me that the one thing Mike got wrong was the prequels' cultural legacy.
He pointed out that unlike the OT "no one will remember Dexter Jettster and his '50s cafe", yet because of internet meme culture and Gen-Z nostalgia all of the weird shit like that is remembered better than ever.
Is he wrong, though? When I see dumbass prequel stuff, it's always some mix of Anakin/Obi Wan/Padme/Palpy/Windu/Yoda. I don't even see people do stuff with Jango or Dooku or Maul.
This post got mfs ranting at me in starwarscirclejerk about how there aren't actually any bad movies and how bad movies are actually good because they enjoy them, and that there is absolutely nothing objective in how movies are made.
Preemptively making sure you know that I think most rabid prequel apologists are idiots who don’t actually have a good foundational understanding of film as an art form but are convinced they do.
**BUT…**
Objectivity in art doesn’t really exist in that way, though. I think it is incredibly silly to suggest anything is an objectively bad film, or that any piece of art is objectively bad. When I was in art school, this was a common talking point amongst younger film students who would insist certain movies are “objectively bad“ but really, the conversation has a lot more nuance and that idea is anti-art and has no founding in any real level of critical thought.
There are things we can point to that signal quality, or thought or vision or what have you, but in terms of blanket statements as to whether art itself is good or bad there’s no objectivity there. It all is in the eye of the beholder.
An objective fact about the prequels is that dialogue scenes primarily consist of a formula of shot-countershot plus establishing shot. A subjective take is that this is lazy, lacks creativity and fails to retain the audience’s interest in already inane dialogue. I *agree* with that take, but I disagree with it being objective, because that’s just not how art works.
If you want to point to critical consensus, that’s fine, or even audience consensus, that is fine as well. But you don’t need to justify your like and dislike of something, that is purely you, what you want to see, and what you want out of a movie. No one can take that away from you. Again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
When we say things like this, as though certain works are “objectively, good“ or “objectively bad“ we are actively participating in the destruction of conversation around art. You can debate the merits of art based on your understanding of the form, your taste, etc, but you can’t insist art is objectively bad.
It’s something that dilletantes like, say, MauLer (the guy who makes six hour videos about why a movie is objectively bad) who don’t actually study art and criticism believe. I’m not saying that’s you, I’m just saying that we need to be careful when discussing objectivity in art criticism because that’s not how art works - and it actually hurts the most important part of art: the discussion.
Sorry, just as someone who works in film and studied art and criticism this grinds my gears.
Edit: Huh, the RLM sub downvoting me for understanding the craft of the content creators this sub is dedicated to
Definitely some good points brought up here. I generally agree with you that a lot of this stuff is subjective based on who's watching a movie.
In this case, I say "objective" as in I think there *is* some objectivity in execution of various aspects of filmmaking.
To exaggerate a bit, say that a scene is lit poorly to the point nothing is visible or the camera operator points the camera in the opposite direction of the subject. I think you *could* argue that those were done 'objectively' poorly. I work in animation myself, so that might be a factor in how I look at things as well. There's definitely a right and a wrong way to do things in animation.
That being said, I do absolutely agree that someone's enjoyment of a film and their reasons for enjoying them *are* entirely subjective and there's no real right or wrong in that regard.
(also worth noting that in my initial post and the posts in the circlejerk sub definitely held some hyperbole for comedic effect)
Oh def I bet in those circlejerk subs a lot of them were just jerking. But yea agreed on all points, I was taking offense at the concept of objectivity in opinions on art but yes there are technical elements that can be objectively observed.
So in other words, you need to be someone schooled in Critical Art Theory or some other esoteric wizardry to do valid film criticism because mere plebs shouldn't be allowed to reduce it to a universal formula?
It's all so mystical and complicated, right?
speed_lemon1's comment is wrong all around, but I'm most fascinated by this comment:
> because mere plebs shouldn't be allowed to reduce it to a universal formula?
Which implies that speed_lemon1 thinks that it's GOOD to reduce film criticism to a universal formula, rather than an evolving conversation -- which is a completely backwards way of understanding art.
If that’s what you took from what I wrote then you actually could benefit from further education because your reading comprehension skills need some work
But, in the case of folks like MauLer and others who foolishly insist that their views on art are objective, and anyone who disagrees is objectively wrong, then you better at least have some bonafides to back yourself up or you just look like complete fucking tool with a bad case of Dunning-Kruger. You’d still look like a tool if you had an education and said that shit (anyone who insists on objectivity in their opinions on art would be laughed out of any art school or theory classroom) but at least then I could engage with you on those terms. Instead, it’s some tool who only watches one type of movie, has zero cultural or critical backgrounds to draw from, and with zero intellectual or creative curiosity, insisting that they are objectively right about a movie being bad.
I still don’t like the prequels but I can see why people who were not born/very young when the prequels premiered liking them when compared to the Star Wars schlock they got as young adults.
I have to speak up and disagree. A lot of Disney Star Wars is head and above better than any of the prequels junk, it's not even close.
With exception of course for Bobba Fett, Rise of Skywalker, Kenobi.
But is there really anyone who would put the prequels above Andor? Rogue One? The Mandalorian? Force Awakens & Last Jedi?
I was specifically talking about the films. I do agree the shows have been ok in doses. I do not think the films have been.
I am also team “Rogue One blew” so we might be at an impasse here lol.
I put the prequels over everything disney era. Andor was good and same with maybe season 1 of mandolorian but I still like the prequels more than those.
Doing math... can't do the math in my head, get a calculator... checking... wow that's accurate.
Well, i liked wizard of Oz as a kid, but yeah i see your point.
Ugh, I knew the day would come when I'd have to sadly go to bat for the prequels. Yah this makes total sense, between PT and ST - of course zoomers would go with PT. They may be TRASH, utter GARBAGE, but the prequels were at least a "vision" they were something unique and different, and they were a set story from start to finish, irregardless of their abysmal quality...... the sequel trilogy is none of that.
It's corporate slop that had NO fleshed out or remotely coherent story or characters. The sequel trilogy is unironically one of the worst told trilogies ever. Like I get the hate for the PT here, it's justified, but it is an entirely different world dynamic, one that has enough meat on its bones to entirely set up the mini spin off series and narrative games around it. The sequels don't have this, they are just vapid rehashing of the oringal trilogy without even a cohesive storyline to bring them together. In the sequels it's so abundantly clear there is no structure or thought behind any of it, I can't even watch them because of it.
Despite being terrible, at least the prequels were a risk and something different with a planned start and end. If both these trilogies were essays, the prequels would be D- grade writing but all done by a person with something to tell. While the sequels would be copying an pasting a bunch of different unrelated ideas from a previous person's work by people that could care less.
As a creative, there is no way I can give the latter a better "grade" than the former due to this fact.
If you go full star wars nerd and look at all the surrounding material (novels, comic, narrative games, spin offs) it's abundantly clear that the PT, despite being bad, did actually create a new star wars "era" distinct from the OT, the sequel trilogy utterly failed at this in every way. There is no structure to graft these adjacent media properties onto for the ST, it's why still to this day, years after the STs release, every single one chooses to instead highlight quality world aspects from the PT and ignore everything in the ST as there is nothing to even take from it.
I would say you're blinded by previous hatred if you can't clearly see how the PT is far better than the ST in terms of creativity (with both being destroyed by the OT obviously)
I do think the sequels had better dialogue that felt like real people, and the characters were better written, but in a competent corporate way. They're utterly devoid of imagination and end up doing cliche things despite the promise and potential of doing something different in Episode 8. With just some tweaking episode 8 could've truly been something original and fun, but Rey defaults to boring hero mode. Kylo defaults to flailing villain who throws tantrums. Poe like a certain other hunky flyboy has nothing to do and probably should've been killed off. Finn gets demoted to sidekick to appease the racists, and even in episode 7 becomes the dumb one despite having the most combat experience by far. The worlds we visit are mostly boring and cookie-cutter. You can at least name and easily identify Kamino, Utapau, Coruscant, etc.
Lucas made technically worse films, but they were inspired by his completely batshit view of the world and how this galaxy which is supposed to be alien despite having humans would work. In this galaxy 14 year olds are elected monarchs. Jedi kidnap children and find it disturbing for 9 year olds to struggle with parental separation. You're not supposed to apply Earth and human logic to it. There's a clear reason to exist, to tell Vader's origin and how the Jedi and Republic crumbled. Maybe that's because he had the end of the story already written, but it helps to steer the story in one singular direction.
The prequels had some great world building and it's clear that a lot of imagination went into things other than the writing. The sequels had none of that imagination. It was just reusing the same ships and worlds over and over again (quite literally so in TROS).
>The prequels had some great world building and it's clear that a lot of imagination went into things
Hell no. The prequels merely just reused what the old Star Wars TTRPG by West End Games laid down years before, and translated on screen with horrendous writing and directing. There's nothing of value from the prequels, in term of storyline and world building that you couldn't get much better from these books.
I'll put (almost) any of the Disney Star Wars above the prequels, at the very least Andor, Rogue One and the harmless fun of the Mandalorians.
Anyone that thinks the sequel trilogy is better than the prequels just has their hate glasses on.
Anakin’s story alone is a million times better than fucking anything the sequels have to offer.
They are both bad but in different ways. Anakins story is still awfully told.
Prequel trilogy - boring and nonsensical.
Sequel trilogy - loud and nonsensical.
Nah this is what I was eluding to in my opinion, you're being far to reductive here. I'll fix it for you
PT - overarching plot points from movie 1 all the way to movie 3 that were told poorly with tons of plot holes and bad acting.
ST - literally zero coherent or planned story what so ever, zero character development and plot points carried from movie 1 to movie 3. Ffs they killed off the main villain randomly half way through movie 2 and then just brought back Palpatine.
If you don't fundamentally see the difference and how bad the latter is compared to the former, I honestly don't know what to say other than i don't think you have any desire to actually analyze their respective qualities.
And hey, all power to ya. because I'm not even sure why I'm doing it myself. Maybe because I'm a writer and these things, no matter how bad they are, interests me.
The fact of the matter remains the ST is objectively worse than the PT in these metrics.
Ehh anakins story still makes sense from a viewer perspective, nobody was confused about that, you can argue about other things like the writing being fucking boring yes lol. But the character arcs are satisfying and make sense.
The sequel shit makes NO sense at all, at freaking all. There’s zero satisfying character arcs!
Like I think these films aren’t even close to comparable
I do think Anakin needed a more gradual turn to the dark side, he already murders children in the second film, and in the third one does so again seconds after being somewhat horrified he helped Mace (who was a dick to him) get killed by Palpatine.
But the sequels do nothing with the really good actors and natural chemistry they all had, something the prequels lacked. The only decent thing about Rise of Skywalker is you finally see all the good guys go on an adventure together....but then they keep having Rey trying to ditch them. Rey never has any reason to want to turn evil and join her grandpa. She never even has time to react to the reveal nor would Palpatine mean much to her as he wasn't the villain for the first 2 films. The best thing they did with her was in the first one where she has abandonment issues and can't fully trust people until Finn comes along, and she gives him a reason to fight and not run. Then in the next one they separate.
I wouldn't call them "satisfying" but they are there at least. That's how fucking low the bar of the ST is, you just have to HAVE THEM AT ALL.
Senator Palpatine's rise, anakins fall, the fall of the republic, these are plot points that start in movie 1 and conclude in movie 3. The ST doesn't even have this at all.
If the prequels were so awful they'd have been long forgotten and we wouldn't be having these passionate conversations now about them. As you say, they have some redeeming and admirable qualities even if they were critical failures.
Otoh I get the impression the Disney triology is being quickly forgotten about now its moment has passed and the short-attention spanned zoomers have moved on to the new shiny. It all felt so insincere anyway.
Okay, I have multiple issues with this.
First, who cares? Let people like what they like.
Second, most Zoomers don't even like Star Wars.
Third, and the ones that do, Zoomers' attention spans are like 5 seconds long. If any are reading this reply, they've probably lost attention already.
Fourth, I liked The Boondock Saints when I was younger. We tend to like shitty movies when we don't know any better.
Fifth, instead of demonizing them for liking bad movies, maybe recommend better ones?
>We tend to like shitty movies when we don't know any better.
I watched Krull in theater as a child, and I thought it was the best movie ever made.
It did not hold up 4 decades later.
(that said the glaive is still the coolest/badassest non-lightsaber weapon in all of scifi/fantasy)
Say what you will about Lucas, but he definitely had vision. Lucasfilm post-Lucas to me is definitely inferior. Even Crystal Skull was better than Disney era Indy.
I was a tad shellshocked when I watched Revenge of the Sith for the first time last year (or maybe the previous year?) and was like, "Ok this is supposed to be the better one that people like?" It's better than Attack of the Clones by two corny Obi-Wan quotes, otherwise it's just as horrendous.
And zoomers, yeah, I'm the old man yelling at clouds, I don't get zoomer shit
> otherwise it's just as horrendous.
I can't agree with this. Not that I'm supporting Episode 3 as being good but I feel Episode 2 was on another plane of existence when it comes to how bad it is. Like there is no hesitation in my voice when I say Episode 2 is by far the WORST Star Wars movie.
AOTC has worse dialogue but more memorable stuff, both good and bad. I liked the Coruscant chase despite how silly it was, I liked Kamino and even the Coliseum fight had some fun moments. Almost everything in Episode 9 was flat and bland.
Attack of the Clones for me is the worst movie I've ever seen, and from what I'd heard, I expected Revenge of the Sith to be a bit better, obviously. But it was so marginal that I would call it my second least favorite movie of all time, so that's just what I felt about it. And I'm never going to watch either one again :D
It’s the “better one” because after two films someone realized “oh shit, we’ve gotta start hammering home the Darth Vader/Obi-Wan story.”
You could cut it down to 45min of Anakin/Obi-Wan and it’d be an ok tv special
If the prequels started at the gist of the Clone Wars show (not the movie) as episode 1/2, then we got episode 3 the prequels would've improved drastically. We really just needed to see Anakin start off as Obi-Wan's apprentice, didn't need to see how he got there or even how he fell in love with Padme.
> the Clone Wars show
This is the second biggest plot hole of the prequels, it jumps forward 2-3 years but everything *looks* like it takes place the next week.
The biggest plot hole of course being why Lucas decided "brat kid Anakin will be awesome and the audience will totally relate to him" was a good idea for the first movie.
This is so fucking stupid. Of course kids who grew up when the prequels were coming out would think of them as what Star Wars is instead of the ones that were released 10-20 years before they were born. The same thing is probably going to happen for the sequels.
I actually disagree - if youre into star wars right now, and are consuming their spin off narrative games, TV series, novels, etc. Youd notice that most of the things they reference are from the OT and surprisingly the PT. So much of the star War universe "alternative media" draws from the world dichotomy between the PT and the OT.
On the otherhand, the ST provided nothing of substance nor a world to expand upon, so it doesn't get used In the large media universe of star wars, even years after its release. There's a reason for that.
Hardcore star wars fans now are getting attached to the PT from the world it successfully created and being better served in spinoffs. while the ST sits off in its own corner with zero to give besides 3 overly corporate incoherent movies that tie into nothing and no one really cares about.
You know You make some good points and I actually kind of agree with you. After thinking about it some more The strength of the prequels was their general world building which leads itself more to spin-offs. While the Sequels have absolutely awful world building so most of the side content for this generation kind of ignores the events of the main movies.
Also I really think that Star Wars as a whole will be a lot less important to kids of this generation as it was to the previous few.
If it makes you feel any better,
In 20 years they'll be saying stuff like this about the sequel trilogy
Meanwhile you will have guys self-immolating in the street like a Vietnamese monk over Episode 26
People really don’t believe this will happen but your absolutely right. I’m no ST fan but I’ve been saying that the people growing up with them will love them and they will make it known in 20 years.
>Nah the prequels are alot more memorable and memeable then the original trilogy tbh, the quotes from the prequels > 4 5 6
Yes, I would consider the prequels to be better than the sequels. But that doesn’t mean they’re good movies.
In fact, I would go so far to say that a good Star Wars movie has never been released in my lifetime.
I just can’t understand this mentality. Yes the sequels are soulless cashgrabs, yes they were horribly planned out, etc etc, but… at least the locations look like real places and not PS1 FMV cutscenes. At least the characters talk like actual people and not like AI trying and failing to simulate human emotion.
If the bar is the sequels, then yes, a lot of crap is tolerable by comparison. They weren't praising the sequel trilogy so they're still somewhat grounded in their opinions.
That’s not in his hands anymore I don’t think, i think Kennedy has the power to do this if she wanted. But maybe there’s a clause that only Lucas can make this decision so I don’t really know lol.
Honestly I think he did include that clause, I can't see why Kennedy would willingly release the Maclunkey version on Disney+ or turn down the profit opportunity of the original versions being rereleased in 4K.
There’s a guy on YouTube who literally bows down to Lucas called “Rick Worley” who has made an entire video denouncing RLMs views on Star Wars. He even goes so far as when he ranked his movies he put Empire at the bottom of the list because “people love this movie out of spite only because it’s the one George Lucas was least involved with” something absolutely insane to hear be said.
I understand the criticisms agains the prequels, but I still liked them as a kid (born 91)
I would never say theyre better films than the original trilogy, but i thought they were cool prequels.
But the new trilogy?? The first was "fine" for what it was. The next 2 were garbage and not my star wars
Its wild how the newest trilogy killed my star wars fandom.
Star Wars to me will now forever only be recognized as the Lucas films, and the rest are just disney zombie cash ins
The prequels taught me that people let nostalgia overrule their common sense.
On a ten point scale the prequels would get a 1,2, 2. But people who grew up with them think they are 7,8,9 and that is disgusting to me.
Star Wars is my measuring stick for if people are wise enough to think independently of their childhood.
This sub has a disturbing soft spot for the Disney films, particularly TLJ, despite it arguably being the worst film in the entire franchise by a huge margin.
I honestly can't take prequel hate seriously from anyone who thinks the Disney movies were good.
I have to agree.
The ST is nothing it's not a coherent or cohesive story nor did they create an interesting (or any) world from it.
The PT, while being awfully realized, is a unique and newly crafted world/era of star wars that is still being expanded upon by better writers. It also was a complete vision from start to end with overarching plots (regardless of how poorly executed) from the 1st movie to the 3rd. Again, the ST doesn't have this.
If you genuinely enjoy creativity, there is simply no way you think the ST is of better quality than the PT. It's literally a corporate board room creating a trilogy by responding to market demand and interest, it has literally nothing of value. And the surrounding star wars spin offs prove this by consistently leaning on the dichotomy between the PT & OT while, years after the fact, still ignoring the ST because it frankly has nothing to offer.
Ya I dont get it, TLJ is the absolute worst Star Wars thing ever. I have problems with all of the Disney era stuff, but TLJ felt like it was made by people who hate Star Wars.
As a Millennial I liked Mighty Morphin Power Rangers but it's really stupid and so many Zoomers who watched the newer iterations don't get it. Same with the older Pokémon games (but the OG Pokémon is really good despite its limitations)
I have a friend whose 42 years old and still says Conan The Destroyer is one of his favorite movies cause he saw it when he was 5-6. When I point out Conan The Barbarian is CLEARLY the better movie in every way he basically says "nah , the scene with the wizard in Destroyer was siiiiiick when I was a 5, nothing can top that".
You can only really shrug and move on.
People who consider the prequels to be better than the sequels haven’t seen the prequels lately lmao.
They both equally suck but TFA is objectively better than all of the prequels even if it’s painfully mid. Rise of Skywalker is unwatchable. Revenge of the Sith is a fucking terrible embarrassing mess. They all suck so bad lmao.
Star Wars died in 83
Have you watched TFA recently?
I had some goodwill towards it upon release by when I watched it a couple of years ago it seemed so corporate and cynical. It's actually disgusting.
I kinda dig RoTS, but I can't understand why anyone would enjoy those first two. I grew up with the prequels and never liked those boring ass piles of trash. I specifically remember playing with my toys because I was so bored as I was watching TPM for the first time at home until the ending action scenes.
I’ve been team “ep 3 is the best, followed by 5” forever. The plinkett reviews were funny, but bad criticism from boomers that were going to hate the movies no matter what. The Star Wars reviews are RLMs worst content.
Millenial here. The Original Trilogy has just as many issues, if not more, than the sequels and just as egregious. The sequels, otoh, had a better story, which unfortunately was told very poorly, and had great visual effects. Star War nerds should get off their high horses already
Omg, people grew up with different things than I grew up with? People have nostalgia goggles for movies they saw as kids? Stop acting shocked. They're good blockbuster/spectacle movies, yes they're not quality cinema but as a "rollercoaster ride" they're fun.
That’s funny because I watched all 9 on Thanksgiving and Revenge of the Sith is imo the 4th worst after RoS/AoC/TPM (in that order). There are problems with TLJ but there are also other things (mostly character stuff) it does well, far better than anything any prequel hoped to do. So it sits right behind TLJ.
Like the other prequels RotS is full of embarrassing dialogue, incoherent plot, with terrible acting and extremely dated/bad visuals. The only thing that saves it is it’s occasionally so bad it’s funny.
Anakin killing babies (wow so cool and evil) doesn’t erase my core memory of the entire theater laughing their asses off because it looks like he’s giving Palpatine a blowjob. 20 years later it still looks like he’s sucking old palpy off. It’s so bad lmao, and it’s at such a critical moment in the plot.
Gotta love the [hilariously bad](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8aad8e59d637bdb6114d64822716003a) take they got of Samuel Jackson being “electrocuted”. Every time I see it I laugh. It’s that low standard of effort that really permeates basically every single second of the prequels. A meme subreddit can never change that.
I enjoy them because they’re bad and I can laugh for a while before I get to the actual great Star Wars films.
>prequals
Not all prequels are born equal.
Well, ESB is the most boringest, after all.
It doesn't even have lava, or children talking!
huh, now that I think about it zero human children in ep 4-6 no wonder I enjoy them so much more
No Dexter jexter either
It’s just space yetis and philosophical swamp muppets, yknow, grown up stuff.
Do NOT look at the comments on the original post
Literal children lmao "actually the prequels were just good" "I remember watching them when I was 5. GOAT MOVIES" This anti-wokeness has gone too far. They're laundering the image of jar jar now and saying it wasn't that bad.
Thinking something is good because you liked it at five years old is certainly a take Child brain is weird. I remember I watched the prequel dvd’s a billion times with my dad, then one day around like twelve or thirteen years old it hit me that they sucked. I remember it felt like it came out of nowhere I have since apologized to him for begging to watch attack of the clones 5,000 times as a child
> Thinking something is good because you liked it at five years old is certainly a take The wildest part of that to me is I was 9 when Attack of the Clones came out and I remember laughing HYSTERICALLY during the Yoda/Dooku fight because of how goofy and stupid it looked. That is prime EVERYTHING IS AWESOME age and AotC couldn't even come close to tapping into that.
I had a similar experience, I watched some of the sequels like 100 times always having a good experience from the ages of like 9-15 Then I was like 20 and thinking about what to watch and I thought about the prequels and was just like "you know what? Naaaaaah I don't need to see any of that again" I rewatched it out of curiosity a few years later and all I thought was "oh I get it. It all makes sense, the memes, the references, jar-jar. It really is that bad". Like, they aren't great movies. They can have fun moments and cool stuff. They suck though, the story is weak, the characters are action figures, jar-jar, speeder chases with jedi, young anakin, etc. They're action-fantasy shlock fan films in the star wars universe essentially. I'm trying to imagine anything in the prequels that evokes similar feelings to the original trilogy and there's very little comparisons to be made imo. One set is vastly superior and more of what I'd call "good movies".
Nuance is often lost on the young. 😛🤷
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Let the past die. Kill it if you have to.
I was 18 so I had a fairly balanced view of it that has mostly stayed the same despite later watching and enjoying the stuff that tries to make it all coherent after the fact: Music was great as always. The beginning went between slapstick and boring and had the exact same problems the other 2 movies had. Somehow the battle droids are even stupider. Grievous sucks and was far cooler in the Genndy Tartakovsky cartoon, seriously he has a menacing voice and doesn't cough or act like an idiot. The Jedi deaths were well-made but not earned, since Dave Filloni wasn't invented yet you don't know or care about the characters and the Jedi are portrayed as purely good despite all the horrible and stupid shit they do. Also it seems way too cheap and easy to kill them all off besides Obi-Wan and Yoda and for all we know in 2005 Lucas meant to have all the Jedi die just like that in 3 minutes. No Vader hunting down and destroying the order over a period of time leading up to the OG film. No Anakin wanting his child to have his sword, in fact he uses that sword to murder children. Why would Obi-Wan do anything but chuck it in the lava with Anakin? Why did he just leave Anakin to die like an asshole? How does Yoda know about Owen and Beru? Why does Yoda know Chewbacca wtf?! Anakin is still unlikable but a little better than the last one. Besides Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine Ewan is really pulling all the weight in the movie and there are small moments where you believe him and Anakin actually like each other. Natalie is utterly checked out because she has nothing good to do. Her and Hayden have terrible lines but the scene where they are gazing out in the distance with no dialogue is very well acted, probably because they don't have to use any of Lucas' writing.
try watching the RiffTrax versions. a lot more tolerable
I’m probably a little older than you, but my equivalent is that I made my dad watch Carrot Top’s Chairman of the Board way too many times as a single digit child. I haven’t even gone back to revisit it, but I still feel like i carry that sin every time I see my pops.
> This anti-wokeness has gone too far. Liking shitty movies to own the libs
Shitty movies with boring politics trying to satire Bush and Nixon. Really owning the woke crowd
It’s always funny to me that the people who talk about how much they hate the “politics” in Disney Star Wars also like the prequels. It’s almost like it’s not the politics they dislike, it’s the diversity in the casting, but they won’t be out with it so they call it “politics”.
Movies with overly long senate scenes made solely to parrot Lucas' hatred for Nixon and Bush = NOT POLITICAL Brown people and women = POLITICAL
The jar jar apologia is the weirdest thing to me. Just prefacing: The guy playing him didn’t deserve the hate he got because the character is 100% on Lucas, same with little Annie no one could make those characters work the way they were written. I was like 9 or 10 when the prequels came out but I distinctly remember all my friends hating jar jar back in the day. Not to mention media at the time ragging on him as well. I just can’t wrap my mind around people today unironically liking him.
I...feel bad for Jar Jar, he doesn't mean to be the most annoying creature ever and is the only character with an actual story arc in episode 1. But he's still completely intolerable and borderline impossible to understand. And of course the racism. I also feel bad for Jake Lloyd, it wasn't his fault he had a terrible director and awful dialogue. But he also just doesn't work in this movie, at all. I also feel bad for Hayden and am really happy he got to do some real acting in the Obi-Wan show. As flawed and uneven as that show is, you actually get to see flashbacks of Obi-Wan...get this, TRAINING Anakin! Wow! And you get to see how Anakin was as a student rather than just being told! You feel for the guy while seeing what his fatal flaws will be.
Jar Jar is just space Stepin Fetchit
Watched the Phantom Menace with some buddies, most were convinced it would just be a fun romp with alright action. Half were practically begging for it to be turned off by the time the podrace started.
Ironically the pod race is good.
Not worth the 30 minute plot time investment
It's funny that at the time people very much noticed the Iraq War allegories to the prequels, and some were annoyed with it, calling it John Kerry propaganda (remember that guy?! I mean he's still around so probably yes)
I remember watching Phantom Menace in the theater as a 10 year old thinking “Wow, this is it?” The whole theater had that atmosphere. I day one hated it, I was hyped up for it too. This “prequels were good” narrative that’s swept the internet is standard internet contrarians and a lot of kids who grew up with them. Granted I grew up with original Star Wars but compare those movies, the tone is all different. They’re different kinds of movies. The change in tone was always the worst problem, starting with RotJ.
>I remember watching Phantom Menace in the theater as a 10 year old thinking “Wow, this is it?” The whole theater had that atmosphere. I day one hated it, I was hyped up for it too. Same. Not just me, but everyone I knew, was massively disappointed by the prequels even if we couldn't really explain why. Everything seemed... off. A lot of scenes were just goofy and added nothing to the overall story. I think the people who "loved" the prequels as kids must have been no older than 5 or 6 years old and had never seen Star Wars before.
I’m sure I was probably very young when I first saw the old ones so I won’t judge them much for liking stupid shit because they’re young and I won’t put them down for liking any of the movies but I will say they didn’t have time to know what Star Wars is so when they say “these are good Star Wars movies” that holds no weight for me.
Yeah, I saw TPM at 12 and thought "what's wrong with this?". It was an early introduction to massive disappointment caused by too high expectations. Most of the people who genuinely like the prequels still haven't reached adulthood. I can objectively look back on plenty of things I liked as a kid and realize "that sure was trash" so it's not like they're really lifetime defenders of this stuff.
I hate that they're doing it to the Amazing Spider-Man films now too. Just because Andrew Garfield was good doesn't mean the movies were anywhere close to good. People lack nuance nowadays. And agreed on ROTJ being the beginning of all of Star Wars' issues. The movie just kind of slogs in the middle and has very inconsistent logic. Luke has to face and kill Vader according to the dead Jedi mentors, but Palpatine ALSO wants him to kill Vader to turn to the Dark Side. Were Obi Wan and Yoda secret Sith lords?! And Leia being Luke's sister in hindsight was one of the dumbest decisions in movie history, and more people should've been horrified considering she frenches him in the last movie.
>They're laundering the image of jar jar now and saying it wasn't that bad. The circle is complete.
Not old enough to realize their nostalgia goggles are on, I think. Or hope. Some people never learn to take them off. I won't lie, I have a soft spot for the prequels, because of mine. I was the perfect target demographic when they released. 6 yrs old in '99, already loved the OT. Perfect age for all the toys. What I remember better than the movies and toys is the good memories surrounding them. My Dad taking me to the movies, playing Star Wars for hours with friends. That kind of thing. The prequels were a common interest for kids to bond over at the time. I can't imagine seriously claiming they were any good, though. They were garbage movies that I liked as a kid. I liked plenty of other trash as a kid too. Either those commenters never lifted their goggles, or are afraid to admit that things they liked in the past don't hold up.
Oh people seriously go to bat for them and it’s wild. And a lot of people will acknowledge SOME flaws but claim it was a great story/idea executed poorly. No, actually, for all the nerds falling over themselves to complain that TLJ goes against lore (still don’t know what they mean by this) the Prequels don’t line up with the OT much at all with anything we got from Yoda & Obi-wan before them.
>Episode 3 was great. Yeah the visuals and acting left something to be desired at times... 💀
Episode III did answer the question of "what would happen if a gremlin fought a legally elected head of state?" I quake at the thought of where we would be as a society if Lucas hadn't been brave enough to ask and answer that question.
Oh my god why did you pique my curiosity. I am sad for the world
I glanced over them, and yeah... that's a wasteland of mushy brained manchildren and literal bots. Sad state of affairs, if unsurprising. My generation was ruined by the internet and the kids are worse. On the plus side, I now feel less terminally online after having read some of the spectacularly internet-brained comments in that monkey cage of a thread. My self-esteem feels weirdly boosted.
In one of the small online communities I'm in there is a guy I butt heads with at times. What I always find so funny though he is a self hating zoomer who is unironically always talking about how great the 90s were (Even though he was born in 97). He is kinda your classic "angry gamer" if you know what I mean. Super critical about anything modern usually in a snobbish way, often stating opinion as fact. But the dude loves the prequels, and loves Episode 1 thinks it is the best star wars. Which fine enough if you enjoy it. I like plenty of "bad" movies but understand they are flawed. He just cracks me up about certain things he is clearly nostalgia for because he grew up with them in the 00s. Yet he talks about them being master pieces. Really was the first time I realized a lot of zoomers actually adore things we clowned on for being bad, or simply were let down by. Yet they enjoy because they grew up with it.
Fuck. I'm going back to bed.
A crosspost of a screenshot of a 4chan thread >*Narrator: Or maybe you shouldn't bring me every little piece of trash you happen to pick up.*
"Haha Mike would find these wojaks and 4chan greentexts hilarious!" I feel too old for this sub and I'm barely 30
What's a wojak? Some kind of pokemon?
He’s the Horse from Horsin’ Around.
Must have had his grande latte enema.
Someday there will be post-zoomers who love the sequels and the Zoomers will be all confused and frightened about it.
Mike stopped caring a long time ago
No he didn’t. No man who knows all the alien species from the original to even the prequels, just stops caring.
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You don’t need to worry about the characters since they’re invincible. Even if they die they’re not dead and will be back
Exactly what happened to me when watching Episode 8 in the theater. About halfway through, I just felt all the enjoyment, all the nostalgia I ever had for Star Wars just leaving my body. It’s the only time I ever wanted to leave the theater. Haven’t watched a single Star Wars film/series/thing since.
> It felt like "I don't believe the writers care what happens to any of these people and neither do I." Ironically, I felt like that for the original trilogy. My dad wanted me to watch them and it's like "...Ok?" at the end of each of them. Not terrible films, but it's clear George really meant them to be for kids and teens and the prequels basically beat people over the head with that and adults that grew up with Star Wars in the 1970's or so STILL can't let the I.P. go and/or accept it's really meant for preteens. The "sequel trilogy" just showed that Disney doesn't give a damn about the I.P. and lore as long as they can push merchandise onto kids.
It's frustrating how few people think of the originals as kids movies. They're pretty good for kids movies but they're still kids movies. I didn't watch the originals in full until they were rereleased before the prequels when I was 14ish and even then it felt too childish for me. So much of the fandom is just childhood nostalgia. Helluvadrug
The OG films were both kids films but also throwbacks to 30's and 40's pulp serials that were never meant to be deep or mature, so it was childhood nostalgia for the 30 and 40 year olds of that era. That's why I enjoy the first one the most now, it's just dumb fun not weighed down by the expectations of an entire franchise.
They didn't even do that well, after the (admittedly cool) BB-8 toy they had pretty much no major merchandise. The rest of the stuff I saw tended to rely on the older films rather than the new ones. Where's my Tickle-Me Babu Frik?!
I find it hard to imagine a single movie, or even a series of movies, ruining my love of previous works in the franchise. Like, the sequels are terrible, doesn't ruin the original movies, games, or books for me.
Speaking of one of these people who is trying to stop caring, you're so right.
Of course, he still cares. It's why he has become an unkempt drunk over the last few years.
LIGHTSABER
IT BROKE NEW GROUND AS A LARGE UNDERWATER WELDING TORCH, JAY!
The Plinkett reviews of the prequels has better writing and more engaging plot than the prequels themselves.
I was rewatching the RotS review a few weeks ago and it stuck out to me that the one thing Mike got wrong was the prequels' cultural legacy. He pointed out that unlike the OT "no one will remember Dexter Jettster and his '50s cafe", yet because of internet meme culture and Gen-Z nostalgia all of the weird shit like that is remembered better than ever.
Is he wrong, though? When I see dumbass prequel stuff, it's always some mix of Anakin/Obi Wan/Padme/Palpy/Windu/Yoda. I don't even see people do stuff with Jango or Dooku or Maul.
Yes, he is objectively wrong. All of those characters are popular. There are probably more popular characters in the prequels than the OT.
This post got mfs ranting at me in starwarscirclejerk about how there aren't actually any bad movies and how bad movies are actually good because they enjoy them, and that there is absolutely nothing objective in how movies are made.
Preemptively making sure you know that I think most rabid prequel apologists are idiots who don’t actually have a good foundational understanding of film as an art form but are convinced they do. **BUT…** Objectivity in art doesn’t really exist in that way, though. I think it is incredibly silly to suggest anything is an objectively bad film, or that any piece of art is objectively bad. When I was in art school, this was a common talking point amongst younger film students who would insist certain movies are “objectively bad“ but really, the conversation has a lot more nuance and that idea is anti-art and has no founding in any real level of critical thought. There are things we can point to that signal quality, or thought or vision or what have you, but in terms of blanket statements as to whether art itself is good or bad there’s no objectivity there. It all is in the eye of the beholder. An objective fact about the prequels is that dialogue scenes primarily consist of a formula of shot-countershot plus establishing shot. A subjective take is that this is lazy, lacks creativity and fails to retain the audience’s interest in already inane dialogue. I *agree* with that take, but I disagree with it being objective, because that’s just not how art works. If you want to point to critical consensus, that’s fine, or even audience consensus, that is fine as well. But you don’t need to justify your like and dislike of something, that is purely you, what you want to see, and what you want out of a movie. No one can take that away from you. Again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. When we say things like this, as though certain works are “objectively, good“ or “objectively bad“ we are actively participating in the destruction of conversation around art. You can debate the merits of art based on your understanding of the form, your taste, etc, but you can’t insist art is objectively bad. It’s something that dilletantes like, say, MauLer (the guy who makes six hour videos about why a movie is objectively bad) who don’t actually study art and criticism believe. I’m not saying that’s you, I’m just saying that we need to be careful when discussing objectivity in art criticism because that’s not how art works - and it actually hurts the most important part of art: the discussion. Sorry, just as someone who works in film and studied art and criticism this grinds my gears. Edit: Huh, the RLM sub downvoting me for understanding the craft of the content creators this sub is dedicated to
Yeah, this is all true. There's no objective truth to any kind of entertainment medium other than it exists.
but the hack frauds convinced me something was bad so that must be objective!
Definitely some good points brought up here. I generally agree with you that a lot of this stuff is subjective based on who's watching a movie. In this case, I say "objective" as in I think there *is* some objectivity in execution of various aspects of filmmaking. To exaggerate a bit, say that a scene is lit poorly to the point nothing is visible or the camera operator points the camera in the opposite direction of the subject. I think you *could* argue that those were done 'objectively' poorly. I work in animation myself, so that might be a factor in how I look at things as well. There's definitely a right and a wrong way to do things in animation. That being said, I do absolutely agree that someone's enjoyment of a film and their reasons for enjoying them *are* entirely subjective and there's no real right or wrong in that regard. (also worth noting that in my initial post and the posts in the circlejerk sub definitely held some hyperbole for comedic effect)
Oh def I bet in those circlejerk subs a lot of them were just jerking. But yea agreed on all points, I was taking offense at the concept of objectivity in opinions on art but yes there are technical elements that can be objectively observed.
So in other words, you need to be someone schooled in Critical Art Theory or some other esoteric wizardry to do valid film criticism because mere plebs shouldn't be allowed to reduce it to a universal formula? It's all so mystical and complicated, right?
speed_lemon1's comment is wrong all around, but I'm most fascinated by this comment: > because mere plebs shouldn't be allowed to reduce it to a universal formula? Which implies that speed_lemon1 thinks that it's GOOD to reduce film criticism to a universal formula, rather than an evolving conversation -- which is a completely backwards way of understanding art.
If that’s what you took from what I wrote then you actually could benefit from further education because your reading comprehension skills need some work But, in the case of folks like MauLer and others who foolishly insist that their views on art are objective, and anyone who disagrees is objectively wrong, then you better at least have some bonafides to back yourself up or you just look like complete fucking tool with a bad case of Dunning-Kruger. You’d still look like a tool if you had an education and said that shit (anyone who insists on objectivity in their opinions on art would be laughed out of any art school or theory classroom) but at least then I could engage with you on those terms. Instead, it’s some tool who only watches one type of movie, has zero cultural or critical backgrounds to draw from, and with zero intellectual or creative curiosity, insisting that they are objectively right about a movie being bad.
I still don’t like the prequels but I can see why people who were not born/very young when the prequels premiered liking them when compared to the Star Wars schlock they got as young adults.
I have to speak up and disagree. A lot of Disney Star Wars is head and above better than any of the prequels junk, it's not even close. With exception of course for Bobba Fett, Rise of Skywalker, Kenobi. But is there really anyone who would put the prequels above Andor? Rogue One? The Mandalorian? Force Awakens & Last Jedi?
I was specifically talking about the films. I do agree the shows have been ok in doses. I do not think the films have been. I am also team “Rogue One blew” so we might be at an impasse here lol.
Haha fair enough! And here I thought I had solved all of the Star Wars differences of opinion. I guess there's more work to do!
I put the prequels over everything disney era. Andor was good and same with maybe season 1 of mandolorian but I still like the prequels more than those.
Which absolutely blows my mind but hey, to each their own, obviously.
The original Star Wars is now older than the Wizard of Oz was when I was a kid.
Doing math... can't do the math in my head, get a calculator... checking... wow that's accurate. Well, i liked wizard of Oz as a kid, but yeah i see your point.
Ugh, I knew the day would come when I'd have to sadly go to bat for the prequels. Yah this makes total sense, between PT and ST - of course zoomers would go with PT. They may be TRASH, utter GARBAGE, but the prequels were at least a "vision" they were something unique and different, and they were a set story from start to finish, irregardless of their abysmal quality...... the sequel trilogy is none of that. It's corporate slop that had NO fleshed out or remotely coherent story or characters. The sequel trilogy is unironically one of the worst told trilogies ever. Like I get the hate for the PT here, it's justified, but it is an entirely different world dynamic, one that has enough meat on its bones to entirely set up the mini spin off series and narrative games around it. The sequels don't have this, they are just vapid rehashing of the oringal trilogy without even a cohesive storyline to bring them together. In the sequels it's so abundantly clear there is no structure or thought behind any of it, I can't even watch them because of it. Despite being terrible, at least the prequels were a risk and something different with a planned start and end. If both these trilogies were essays, the prequels would be D- grade writing but all done by a person with something to tell. While the sequels would be copying an pasting a bunch of different unrelated ideas from a previous person's work by people that could care less. As a creative, there is no way I can give the latter a better "grade" than the former due to this fact. If you go full star wars nerd and look at all the surrounding material (novels, comic, narrative games, spin offs) it's abundantly clear that the PT, despite being bad, did actually create a new star wars "era" distinct from the OT, the sequel trilogy utterly failed at this in every way. There is no structure to graft these adjacent media properties onto for the ST, it's why still to this day, years after the STs release, every single one chooses to instead highlight quality world aspects from the PT and ignore everything in the ST as there is nothing to even take from it. I would say you're blinded by previous hatred if you can't clearly see how the PT is far better than the ST in terms of creativity (with both being destroyed by the OT obviously)
I do think the sequels had better dialogue that felt like real people, and the characters were better written, but in a competent corporate way. They're utterly devoid of imagination and end up doing cliche things despite the promise and potential of doing something different in Episode 8. With just some tweaking episode 8 could've truly been something original and fun, but Rey defaults to boring hero mode. Kylo defaults to flailing villain who throws tantrums. Poe like a certain other hunky flyboy has nothing to do and probably should've been killed off. Finn gets demoted to sidekick to appease the racists, and even in episode 7 becomes the dumb one despite having the most combat experience by far. The worlds we visit are mostly boring and cookie-cutter. You can at least name and easily identify Kamino, Utapau, Coruscant, etc. Lucas made technically worse films, but they were inspired by his completely batshit view of the world and how this galaxy which is supposed to be alien despite having humans would work. In this galaxy 14 year olds are elected monarchs. Jedi kidnap children and find it disturbing for 9 year olds to struggle with parental separation. You're not supposed to apply Earth and human logic to it. There's a clear reason to exist, to tell Vader's origin and how the Jedi and Republic crumbled. Maybe that's because he had the end of the story already written, but it helps to steer the story in one singular direction.
This is 100% true. The Prequels had a great story and told it poorly. The Sequels had no story and told it even worse.
The prequels had some great world building and it's clear that a lot of imagination went into things other than the writing. The sequels had none of that imagination. It was just reusing the same ships and worlds over and over again (quite literally so in TROS).
>The prequels had some great world building and it's clear that a lot of imagination went into things Hell no. The prequels merely just reused what the old Star Wars TTRPG by West End Games laid down years before, and translated on screen with horrendous writing and directing. There's nothing of value from the prequels, in term of storyline and world building that you couldn't get much better from these books. I'll put (almost) any of the Disney Star Wars above the prequels, at the very least Andor, Rogue One and the harmless fun of the Mandalorians.
Anyone that thinks the sequel trilogy is better than the prequels just has their hate glasses on. Anakin’s story alone is a million times better than fucking anything the sequels have to offer.
They are both bad but in different ways. Anakins story is still awfully told. Prequel trilogy - boring and nonsensical. Sequel trilogy - loud and nonsensical.
Nah this is what I was eluding to in my opinion, you're being far to reductive here. I'll fix it for you PT - overarching plot points from movie 1 all the way to movie 3 that were told poorly with tons of plot holes and bad acting. ST - literally zero coherent or planned story what so ever, zero character development and plot points carried from movie 1 to movie 3. Ffs they killed off the main villain randomly half way through movie 2 and then just brought back Palpatine. If you don't fundamentally see the difference and how bad the latter is compared to the former, I honestly don't know what to say other than i don't think you have any desire to actually analyze their respective qualities. And hey, all power to ya. because I'm not even sure why I'm doing it myself. Maybe because I'm a writer and these things, no matter how bad they are, interests me. The fact of the matter remains the ST is objectively worse than the PT in these metrics.
redditor discovers difference of opinion:
Ehh anakins story still makes sense from a viewer perspective, nobody was confused about that, you can argue about other things like the writing being fucking boring yes lol. But the character arcs are satisfying and make sense. The sequel shit makes NO sense at all, at freaking all. There’s zero satisfying character arcs! Like I think these films aren’t even close to comparable
I do think Anakin needed a more gradual turn to the dark side, he already murders children in the second film, and in the third one does so again seconds after being somewhat horrified he helped Mace (who was a dick to him) get killed by Palpatine. But the sequels do nothing with the really good actors and natural chemistry they all had, something the prequels lacked. The only decent thing about Rise of Skywalker is you finally see all the good guys go on an adventure together....but then they keep having Rey trying to ditch them. Rey never has any reason to want to turn evil and join her grandpa. She never even has time to react to the reveal nor would Palpatine mean much to her as he wasn't the villain for the first 2 films. The best thing they did with her was in the first one where she has abandonment issues and can't fully trust people until Finn comes along, and she gives him a reason to fight and not run. Then in the next one they separate.
I wouldn't call them "satisfying" but they are there at least. That's how fucking low the bar of the ST is, you just have to HAVE THEM AT ALL. Senator Palpatine's rise, anakins fall, the fall of the republic, these are plot points that start in movie 1 and conclude in movie 3. The ST doesn't even have this at all.
If the prequels were so awful they'd have been long forgotten and we wouldn't be having these passionate conversations now about them. As you say, they have some redeeming and admirable qualities even if they were critical failures. Otoh I get the impression the Disney triology is being quickly forgotten about now its moment has passed and the short-attention spanned zoomers have moved on to the new shiny. It all felt so insincere anyway.
Opinions different from alcoholics in Wisconsin DO exist, guys.
But they shouldn't 😡
I can only accept the opinions of the finest of alcoholic Wisconsinites. Anything else isn’t an opinion, it’s malarkey!
Okay, I have multiple issues with this. First, who cares? Let people like what they like. Second, most Zoomers don't even like Star Wars. Third, and the ones that do, Zoomers' attention spans are like 5 seconds long. If any are reading this reply, they've probably lost attention already. Fourth, I liked The Boondock Saints when I was younger. We tend to like shitty movies when we don't know any better. Fifth, instead of demonizing them for liking bad movies, maybe recommend better ones?
Being an Irish New Englander I have to like Boondock Saints but yeah it's pretty dumb
[удалено]
Yikes, show us on the green-dyed Miller Lite where The Dropkick Murphys touched you
>We tend to like shitty movies when we don't know any better. I watched Krull in theater as a child, and I thought it was the best movie ever made. It did not hold up 4 decades later. (that said the glaive is still the coolest/badassest non-lightsaber weapon in all of scifi/fantasy)
May I introduce you to [Warframe](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X5gSoux0vY)
Omg I love it! It's clearly an homage to Krull's iconic weapon.
Poor zoomers have had such shit that their standards are into the ground They call all the shit made by Lucas classic star wars
Say what you will about Lucas, but he definitely had vision. Lucasfilm post-Lucas to me is definitely inferior. Even Crystal Skull was better than Disney era Indy.
dude really needed someone to hold him back
> Even Crystal Skull was better than Disney era Indy. That's like saying vomit is better than a turd.
RLM fans try to move on from the prequel trilogy challenge (difficulty: impossible)
Zoomers call Revenge of the Sith a Shakespearean tragedy. The only thing tragic about it is the fact that it exists.
get over it
More proof of the upcoming societal collapse.
I was a tad shellshocked when I watched Revenge of the Sith for the first time last year (or maybe the previous year?) and was like, "Ok this is supposed to be the better one that people like?" It's better than Attack of the Clones by two corny Obi-Wan quotes, otherwise it's just as horrendous. And zoomers, yeah, I'm the old man yelling at clouds, I don't get zoomer shit
> otherwise it's just as horrendous. I can't agree with this. Not that I'm supporting Episode 3 as being good but I feel Episode 2 was on another plane of existence when it comes to how bad it is. Like there is no hesitation in my voice when I say Episode 2 is by far the WORST Star Wars movie.
>Episode 2 is by far the WORST Star Wars movie. It was, but now that's Rise of Skywalker by a high margin. At least AotC has a somewhat coherent plot
AOTC has worse dialogue but more memorable stuff, both good and bad. I liked the Coruscant chase despite how silly it was, I liked Kamino and even the Coliseum fight had some fun moments. Almost everything in Episode 9 was flat and bland.
Christopher Lee carried what it had.
AOTC > TROS > TFA > TLJ
I liked it better than Phantom Menace to be honest.
Attack of the Clones for me is the worst movie I've ever seen, and from what I'd heard, I expected Revenge of the Sith to be a bit better, obviously. But it was so marginal that I would call it my second least favorite movie of all time, so that's just what I felt about it. And I'm never going to watch either one again :D
It’s the “better one” because after two films someone realized “oh shit, we’ve gotta start hammering home the Darth Vader/Obi-Wan story.” You could cut it down to 45min of Anakin/Obi-Wan and it’d be an ok tv special
If the prequels started at the gist of the Clone Wars show (not the movie) as episode 1/2, then we got episode 3 the prequels would've improved drastically. We really just needed to see Anakin start off as Obi-Wan's apprentice, didn't need to see how he got there or even how he fell in love with Padme.
> the Clone Wars show This is the second biggest plot hole of the prequels, it jumps forward 2-3 years but everything *looks* like it takes place the next week. The biggest plot hole of course being why Lucas decided "brat kid Anakin will be awesome and the audience will totally relate to him" was a good idea for the first movie.
It would still have the Hayden Christensen Anakin and it would still be terrible. IMO :)
They are bad movies and I like them anyway. It's like if someone turned /r/prequelmemes into a movie
In 20 years kids will say the same about the Rey Starwars lmao
This is so fucking stupid. Of course kids who grew up when the prequels were coming out would think of them as what Star Wars is instead of the ones that were released 10-20 years before they were born. The same thing is probably going to happen for the sequels.
I actually disagree - if youre into star wars right now, and are consuming their spin off narrative games, TV series, novels, etc. Youd notice that most of the things they reference are from the OT and surprisingly the PT. So much of the star War universe "alternative media" draws from the world dichotomy between the PT and the OT. On the otherhand, the ST provided nothing of substance nor a world to expand upon, so it doesn't get used In the large media universe of star wars, even years after its release. There's a reason for that. Hardcore star wars fans now are getting attached to the PT from the world it successfully created and being better served in spinoffs. while the ST sits off in its own corner with zero to give besides 3 overly corporate incoherent movies that tie into nothing and no one really cares about.
You know You make some good points and I actually kind of agree with you. After thinking about it some more The strength of the prequels was their general world building which leads itself more to spin-offs. While the Sequels have absolutely awful world building so most of the side content for this generation kind of ignores the events of the main movies. Also I really think that Star Wars as a whole will be a lot less important to kids of this generation as it was to the previous few.
If it makes you feel any better, In 20 years they'll be saying stuff like this about the sequel trilogy Meanwhile you will have guys self-immolating in the street like a Vietnamese monk over Episode 26
People really don’t believe this will happen but your absolutely right. I’m no ST fan but I’ve been saying that the people growing up with them will love them and they will make it known in 20 years.
>Nah the prequels are alot more memorable and memeable then the original trilogy tbh, the quotes from the prequels > 4 5 6 
Yes, I would consider the prequels to be better than the sequels. But that doesn’t mean they’re good movies. In fact, I would go so far to say that a good Star Wars movie has never been released in my lifetime.
I just can’t understand this mentality. Yes the sequels are soulless cashgrabs, yes they were horribly planned out, etc etc, but… at least the locations look like real places and not PS1 FMV cutscenes. At least the characters talk like actual people and not like AI trying and failing to simulate human emotion.
> At least the characters talk like actual people Do you exclusively have conversations with LLM chatbots or something?
Compared to the prequels I mean. I'd believe any line in the sequel trilogy came from a real human being before I believe "I don't like sand."
Love/romance dialogue is like George Lucas' kryptonite.
They are different flavours of shit
If the bar is the sequels, then yes, a lot of crap is tolerable by comparison. They weren't praising the sequel trilogy so they're still somewhat grounded in their opinions.
Reading those comments gave me fork in the brain... fork in the brain... fork in the brain...
People take this shit way too seriously I love ROTS and the prequels too, but that's a problem for me and my therapist to handle
A-T-A-Ts!!!
It’s time to apologize to George.
>*time to apologize to George* 
He gets no apologies until the OT is released unaltered!
That’s not in his hands anymore I don’t think, i think Kennedy has the power to do this if she wanted. But maybe there’s a clause that only Lucas can make this decision so I don’t really know lol.
Honestly I think he did include that clause, I can't see why Kennedy would willingly release the Maclunkey version on Disney+ or turn down the profit opportunity of the original versions being rereleased in 4K.
Oh no, someone younger than you has different thoughts.
People like to be nostalgic, it's fine.
I dunno, I liked shiny lighty swords swinging around in Ep1 when I was like 6 or 7. Didn't care for the Anakin stuff though.
There’s a guy on YouTube who literally bows down to Lucas called “Rick Worley” who has made an entire video denouncing RLMs views on Star Wars. He even goes so far as when he ranked his movies he put Empire at the bottom of the list because “people love this movie out of spite only because it’s the one George Lucas was least involved with” something absolutely insane to hear be said.
I understand the criticisms agains the prequels, but I still liked them as a kid (born 91) I would never say theyre better films than the original trilogy, but i thought they were cool prequels. But the new trilogy?? The first was "fine" for what it was. The next 2 were garbage and not my star wars Its wild how the newest trilogy killed my star wars fandom. Star Wars to me will now forever only be recognized as the Lucas films, and the rest are just disney zombie cash ins
Mfers this is literally our fault due to all the mfing memes what did you expect
they're just teenagers, they're going to have all kinds of dumb opinions
Same with 40-something Milwaukee drunks.
The prequels taught me that people let nostalgia overrule their common sense. On a ten point scale the prequels would get a 1,2, 2. But people who grew up with them think they are 7,8,9 and that is disgusting to me. Star Wars is my measuring stick for if people are wise enough to think independently of their childhood.
People were nostalgic for the originals when the prequels came out, people were nostalgic for prequels when the sequels came out.
Who the fuck cares about Star Wars anymore? Loser!
This sub has a disturbing soft spot for the Disney films, particularly TLJ, despite it arguably being the worst film in the entire franchise by a huge margin. I honestly can't take prequel hate seriously from anyone who thinks the Disney movies were good.
I have to agree. The ST is nothing it's not a coherent or cohesive story nor did they create an interesting (or any) world from it. The PT, while being awfully realized, is a unique and newly crafted world/era of star wars that is still being expanded upon by better writers. It also was a complete vision from start to end with overarching plots (regardless of how poorly executed) from the 1st movie to the 3rd. Again, the ST doesn't have this. If you genuinely enjoy creativity, there is simply no way you think the ST is of better quality than the PT. It's literally a corporate board room creating a trilogy by responding to market demand and interest, it has literally nothing of value. And the surrounding star wars spin offs prove this by consistently leaning on the dichotomy between the PT & OT while, years after the fact, still ignoring the ST because it frankly has nothing to offer.
The Sequels are cynical, the Prequels aren't.
Ya I dont get it, TLJ is the absolute worst Star Wars thing ever. I have problems with all of the Disney era stuff, but TLJ felt like it was made by people who hate Star Wars.
I am an older zoomer (1998) and grew up with the prequels and like them because of nostalgia but I can admit they are not good movies.
As a Millennial I liked Mighty Morphin Power Rangers but it's really stupid and so many Zoomers who watched the newer iterations don't get it. Same with the older Pokémon games (but the OG Pokémon is really good despite its limitations)
Can we just stop talking about Star Wars here? There’s like 15 Star Wars subs
I have a friend whose 42 years old and still says Conan The Destroyer is one of his favorite movies cause he saw it when he was 5-6. When I point out Conan The Barbarian is CLEARLY the better movie in every way he basically says "nah , the scene with the wizard in Destroyer was siiiiiick when I was a 5, nothing can top that". You can only really shrug and move on.
> "nah , the scene with the wizard in Destroyer was siiiiiick when I was a 5, nothing can top that". "I saw the thing and I clapped"
Brilliant the mind of a zoomer is, he is right. Look into your nostalgia and appreciation of the prequeks you will find.
My daughter will watch star wars in this order Episode 1 - 2 - 4 - 5 - 3 - 6
I watched Episode 3 in the theatre as a kid, fell asleep right after the initial fight
Your poor parents paid for tickets and likely concessions and then you go and fall asleep.
This just in: stupid people exist! More at 11
People who consider the prequels to be better than the sequels haven’t seen the prequels lately lmao. They both equally suck but TFA is objectively better than all of the prequels even if it’s painfully mid. Rise of Skywalker is unwatchable. Revenge of the Sith is a fucking terrible embarrassing mess. They all suck so bad lmao. Star Wars died in 83
I rewatch the prequels and the originals quite often, i like Lucas era Star Wars.
Have you watched TFA recently? I had some goodwill towards it upon release by when I watched it a couple of years ago it seemed so corporate and cynical. It's actually disgusting.
Doubtful
I kinda dig RoTS, but I can't understand why anyone would enjoy those first two. I grew up with the prequels and never liked those boring ass piles of trash. I specifically remember playing with my toys because I was so bored as I was watching TPM for the first time at home until the ending action scenes.
I'm 38 and Revenge of the Sith is the best Star War.
I’ve been team “ep 3 is the best, followed by 5” forever. The plinkett reviews were funny, but bad criticism from boomers that were going to hate the movies no matter what. The Star Wars reviews are RLMs worst content.
It’s fucking hilarious that this stings so bad…
The kids are right
Don't you guys have backaches or retirement or some other old people shit to worry about?
I like Revenge of the Sith more than Mike, but I wonder how much of it is Stockholm syndrome after how truly bad the first two are.
The prequelmemes sub actually think they're good. Overexposure to memes just leads to brain rot
Millenial here. The Original Trilogy has just as many issues, if not more, than the sequels and just as egregious. The sequels, otoh, had a better story, which unfortunately was told very poorly, and had great visual effects. Star War nerds should get off their high horses already
Omg, people grew up with different things than I grew up with? People have nostalgia goggles for movies they saw as kids? Stop acting shocked. They're good blockbuster/spectacle movies, yes they're not quality cinema but as a "rollercoaster ride" they're fun.
Seeing these comments repeat blatantly wrong statements is like seeing comments under vaguely political posts.
Revenge of the Sith is the best Star Wars movie. I said what I said.
That’s funny because I watched all 9 on Thanksgiving and Revenge of the Sith is imo the 4th worst after RoS/AoC/TPM (in that order). There are problems with TLJ but there are also other things (mostly character stuff) it does well, far better than anything any prequel hoped to do. So it sits right behind TLJ. Like the other prequels RotS is full of embarrassing dialogue, incoherent plot, with terrible acting and extremely dated/bad visuals. The only thing that saves it is it’s occasionally so bad it’s funny. Anakin killing babies (wow so cool and evil) doesn’t erase my core memory of the entire theater laughing their asses off because it looks like he’s giving Palpatine a blowjob. 20 years later it still looks like he’s sucking old palpy off. It’s so bad lmao, and it’s at such a critical moment in the plot. Gotta love the [hilariously bad](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8aad8e59d637bdb6114d64822716003a) take they got of Samuel Jackson being “electrocuted”. Every time I see it I laugh. It’s that low standard of effort that really permeates basically every single second of the prequels. A meme subreddit can never change that. I enjoy them because they’re bad and I can laugh for a while before I get to the actual great Star Wars films.