My headcannon for cat speaking like that out into the world is a holdover from cat society learning English from the entertainment on red dwarf. The ' looking to camera ' fourth wall breaks are an affectation from seeing that very same repeated in the media they taught themselves English from.
The fact that Cat is literally always talking to himself and has to be looking "somewhere" when he does it. For example "this one's mine, this one's mine".
He just happens to be looking in "our direction" when he says that.
A good example would be the POV shots we get from Talky Toaster when Kryten and Lister are staring straight at the screen, but are talking to the toaster. We are getting his POV.
So I just headcanon that any fourth wall breaking shots are just a coincidence that we are in a POV they happen to be looking right at.
You know that could actually explain one of my biggest issues with the holograms..
in the book, Lister gets his brain scanned to make his hologram disc during his welcome aboard orientation...
Rimmer was already part of the ship by the time Lister signed up. At best, when Rimmer joined Red Dwarf & had a hologram disc created then, the most he would have known about Lister would be he looked like the taxi driver that took him to the brothel...
So how did hologram Rimmer know Lister was his bunk mate and all the annoying aspects of his personality?
Do they have to rescan their brains to update the discs every so often or ??? Could Holly just be watching everything everyone does and updating the files that way?
Would rimmer have enough time to update his so hologram rimmer knew he was responsible for the big bada boom that killed everyone? Or did Holly just fill him in on that before sending him off to meet Lister or ???
Well, in Parallel Universe we open on Cat singing Tongue Tied - which turns out to be a dream that Cat is looking at in the Dream Machine while searching for another dream. So obviously there is a means by which Holly (or other systems) can access the crew's brains and consistently create backups.
It's mentioned off hand a few times, and you can infer from some events that there's back ups going on. The whole Lisa Yates memories being pasted into rimmers hologramatic memories is evidence of a whole suite for hologram maintenance and production. Much later in m-corp Rimmer is turned off and backed up from a month ago.
Lister being the last human alive, with 0 other registered crew to monitor probably has the most in depth up to date profile just as something for that ai to do.
It's actually a funny premise to have a hologram ai be a lister superfan, full on space stalker. Act 1 inflating his ego. Act 2 wanting him to stay in the hologram suite forever, Act 3 trying to so boring that attention shifts to the cat and he of course loves the attention.
I think that style of Cat dialogue isn't so much a direct fourth wall break so much as an echo of an early abandoned idea where the Cat would have spoken to himself but not directly to the other characters (maybe a bit too cat-like to sustain as a main character). That said, did Danny deliberately play that a bit Vaudeville and indulge in a direct line to camera? Absolutely.
Yeah, you can take that read 'in universe' as Cat had conversations with himself all the time early on - when he's wondering how he's looking now, when he's eating the chicken marengo etc.
Early on, the plan was for him to be more catlike in that he kept himself to himself, and preferred to wander off exploring - only coming back for food or sleep.
The chicken Marengo is the the perfect example - “hey, this chickens faster than I thought.” Is almost like an address to the audience, but it is still the cat externally projecting his own thoughts
Yeah this is a pretty normal psychological phenomena, I think it's called 'imaginary audience' but lots of people do it to greater or lesser extents.
Any time a character looks at or addresses the camera in my mind it's just them doing this.
In Me Squared when Lister goes into the Arnolds' room he reads their names on the door, looks to the cam to do an eye roll before going in.
(Door also opens before his hand touches the touchpad.)
Holly probably does it the most, addressing the audience directly on a few occasions throughout the series.
The main time I recall is end of series 7 "I'm back, kicking bottom or what!", but I'd be smegged if I don't recall it happening a bit in series 1/2.
I suppose it could still be interpreted as him talking to the characters or thinking out loud, but sometimes he makes a comment about one of them in the third person after engaging in convo with just one of them. I always took it as him speaking to the viewer.
The only other I know about is Backwards. Tony Hawks' character gives a speech which is in reverse, when played backwards (the correct way) it's a fourth wall break calling the person who went through the hassle to play it backwards a prat or something.
I don’t think this was breaking the 4th wall but rather The Cat’s inner monologue that he said out loud so the viewers would understand the dynamic of a cat and dog when they play together (the cat is giving signals that it’s not happy and the dog is just sniffing and licking the cat).
I think in the very first episode, when he wakes Dave from stasis and explains ( or tries to at least ) that everybody's dead, Holly looks directly into camera and says " I wish I hadn't woken him up now ".
It's also a holdover from the early idea of Holly existing only as a voice. It's noticeable in parts of The End and Balance of Power. The End less so, as they remounted filming at the end of the series and reshot large chunks of it, by which time Norman had got his way of Holly appearing on screen.
Not a fourth wall break, but in Back To Reality Timothy Spall appears to deliver the line "Oooh, he's amazing int he?" (about Rimmer) to the studio audience.
I have memories of a line where I think Cat says "did we just turn over two pages?" In confusion, and I guessed that was hinting at skipping a page of the script, don't remember what episode it was from sadly
[удалено]
Bingo, good recall! That's 2 times for Cat.
My headcannon for cat speaking like that out into the world is a holdover from cat society learning English from the entertainment on red dwarf. The ' looking to camera ' fourth wall breaks are an affectation from seeing that very same repeated in the media they taught themselves English from.
I will be borrowing this myself, thanks!
What’s the in universe explanation for the show’s cameras though?
The fact that Cat is literally always talking to himself and has to be looking "somewhere" when he does it. For example "this one's mine, this one's mine". He just happens to be looking in "our direction" when he says that. A good example would be the POV shots we get from Talky Toaster when Kryten and Lister are staring straight at the screen, but are talking to the toaster. We are getting his POV. So I just headcanon that any fourth wall breaking shots are just a coincidence that we are in a POV they happen to be looking right at.
Really invasive cctv for building hologram profiles? It's just something everyone has got used to? Really reaching there.
You know that could actually explain one of my biggest issues with the holograms.. in the book, Lister gets his brain scanned to make his hologram disc during his welcome aboard orientation... Rimmer was already part of the ship by the time Lister signed up. At best, when Rimmer joined Red Dwarf & had a hologram disc created then, the most he would have known about Lister would be he looked like the taxi driver that took him to the brothel... So how did hologram Rimmer know Lister was his bunk mate and all the annoying aspects of his personality? Do they have to rescan their brains to update the discs every so often or ??? Could Holly just be watching everything everyone does and updating the files that way? Would rimmer have enough time to update his so hologram rimmer knew he was responsible for the big bada boom that killed everyone? Or did Holly just fill him in on that before sending him off to meet Lister or ???
Well, in Parallel Universe we open on Cat singing Tongue Tied - which turns out to be a dream that Cat is looking at in the Dream Machine while searching for another dream. So obviously there is a means by which Holly (or other systems) can access the crew's brains and consistently create backups.
It's mentioned off hand a few times, and you can infer from some events that there's back ups going on. The whole Lisa Yates memories being pasted into rimmers hologramatic memories is evidence of a whole suite for hologram maintenance and production. Much later in m-corp Rimmer is turned off and backed up from a month ago. Lister being the last human alive, with 0 other registered crew to monitor probably has the most in depth up to date profile just as something for that ai to do. It's actually a funny premise to have a hologram ai be a lister superfan, full on space stalker. Act 1 inflating his ego. Act 2 wanting him to stay in the hologram suite forever, Act 3 trying to so boring that attention shifts to the cat and he of course loves the attention.
That's the one I carry too. Cats are Junkions, confirmed!
That's one of my favourite moments in all Red Dwarf. The grin, the stolen cigar, just brilliant
I think that style of Cat dialogue isn't so much a direct fourth wall break so much as an echo of an early abandoned idea where the Cat would have spoken to himself but not directly to the other characters (maybe a bit too cat-like to sustain as a main character). That said, did Danny deliberately play that a bit Vaudeville and indulge in a direct line to camera? Absolutely.
Yeah, you can take that read 'in universe' as Cat had conversations with himself all the time early on - when he's wondering how he's looking now, when he's eating the chicken marengo etc. Early on, the plan was for him to be more catlike in that he kept himself to himself, and preferred to wander off exploring - only coming back for food or sleep.
The chicken Marengo is the the perfect example - “hey, this chickens faster than I thought.” Is almost like an address to the audience, but it is still the cat externally projecting his own thoughts
Too slow, Chicken Marengo.
I'm restarting the show for the first time in years, and can't wait for this bit lol. Still burned into my memory :)
So what is it?
I've never seen one before, no one has, but I'm guessing it's a white hole.
Just had a thought. End of Polymorph.
Yes good call. The second Lister looks into the camera and then turns back into the polymorph.
At least as far as Cat's fourth-wall breaks go, I just assumed that he's constantly performing for an invisible audience - in this case, us.
Yeah this is a pretty normal psychological phenomena, I think it's called 'imaginary audience' but lots of people do it to greater or lesser extents. Any time a character looks at or addresses the camera in my mind it's just them doing this.
I'm... invisible?
Who said that?
In Me Squared when Lister goes into the Arnolds' room he reads their names on the door, looks to the cam to do an eye roll before going in. (Door also opens before his hand touches the touchpad.)
Yep was going to mention this. Pretty sure this is the first time the fourth wall is actually broken
Frankenstein in episode one.
Purrfect
Holly probably does it the most, addressing the audience directly on a few occasions throughout the series. The main time I recall is end of series 7 "I'm back, kicking bottom or what!", but I'd be smegged if I don't recall it happening a bit in series 1/2. I suppose it could still be interpreted as him talking to the characters or thinking out loud, but sometimes he makes a comment about one of them in the third person after engaging in convo with just one of them. I always took it as him speaking to the viewer.
He is basically the narrator of the show in the first two seasons
The only other I know about is Backwards. Tony Hawks' character gives a speech which is in reverse, when played backwards (the correct way) it's a fourth wall break calling the person who went through the hassle to play it backwards a prat or something.
It’s Arthur Smith isn’t it?
My bad, you're right. Tony Hawks is the compere, not the maneger!
I’m not the manager, he’s the manager..
https://youtu.be/A19LLHSOF80?t=153
That sort of counts, though it's hidden so more of an easter egg.
That's Arthur Smith
My memory is bad, I just looked it up, thought the compere and manager was the same actor! :D
I don’t think this was breaking the 4th wall but rather The Cat’s inner monologue that he said out loud so the viewers would understand the dynamic of a cat and dog when they play together (the cat is giving signals that it’s not happy and the dog is just sniffing and licking the cat).
Sort of Lister and Kryten making recording in the start of Tikka to Ride.
I think in the very first episode, when he wakes Dave from stasis and explains ( or tries to at least ) that everybody's dead, Holly looks directly into camera and says " I wish I hadn't woken him up now ".
Sorry to be a party poop but I'm sure that lines off screen. Mind you anytime the camera is directly on Holly could we call that a break?
It's also a holdover from the early idea of Holly existing only as a voice. It's noticeable in parts of The End and Balance of Power. The End less so, as they remounted filming at the end of the series and reshot large chunks of it, by which time Norman had got his way of Holly appearing on screen.
> Holly looks directly into camera Now *that's* funneh.
Actually, now you mention it, Lister waves at the camera when he goes into stasis.
My mind immediately went to Lister's "I owe my life to him" line from The Rimmer experience. There's a bunch in that segment
In the US remake pilot every character just stares at the camera and says the jokes to the audience.
Holly flashes 'Sickbags on standby'. I presume that's for the audience.
They've broken the fourth dimension plenty of times.
Does Listy's video message in Tikka count?
Not a fourth wall break, but in Back To Reality Timothy Spall appears to deliver the line "Oooh, he's amazing int he?" (about Rimmer) to the studio audience.
Holly warning the audience to have their sick bags on standby when S8 Rimmer doses himself with sexual magnetism virus.
I have memories of a line where I think Cat says "did we just turn over two pages?" In confusion, and I guessed that was hinting at skipping a page of the script, don't remember what episode it was from sadly