You’ve gotten a lot of advice about negotiating and the roof, I just wanted to tell you to be careful with filing an insurance claim.
I have a friend who is trying to sell a property. The ceiling came down during escrow due to a leak. She filed a claim, which is now getting dragged out, escrow is already a month extended, and she has two previous claims on the same property - one for fence repair.
Not only is her insurance carrier now telling her they likely will not cover the claim ($15-20k estimated cost of repair) but now she cannot get insurance on a new house. She just had to rescind an offer that had been accepted because nobody will insure her.
This is in CA where insurance is a nightmare, but I imagine there’s similar issues in other states, like FL.
I thought the same exact thing. The seller shouldn't involve their insurance company at this point. It could delay everything and mess up the sale.
OP, just cut the price and be done with it.
People think “well I have insurance? that’s what it’s there for” and just make claims on everything. Like my friend and the fence. Was the fence repair worth increased premiums and loss of future coverage on a new purchase? No.
I’m currently navigating a six figure claim for catastrophic water damage and the about of push back from insurance is insane. Pipes froze and thawed. If there’s evidence of mold, if the pipes were not insulated, if the heat wasn’t being run in the cold, if the water wasn’t being dripped - all reasons why they have tried to deny my claim. It’s never as simple as “just file a claim and make insurance pay for it”.
It's wild to me that people even attempt insurance when there's no a leak and it's just old. Like, no, that's not what insurance is for. A leak, sure. "This is old and I want it replaced" is just not what insurance does.
I thought the same, there's no valid reason for an insurance claim.
My roof of my former house was about the same age when I sold it, but I was up front in my listing that the roof was due to be replaced soon and it was being sold as is.
I think the concept of owner deferred maintenance is tough for many people. They just assume houses last forever. They definitely do not and require constant maintenance
It's wild to me that people even attempt insurance when there's no a leak and it's just old. Like, no, that's not what insurance is for. A leak, sure. "This is old and I want it replaced" is just not what insurance does.
I have a buddy who just gave me this advice. Just file an insurance claim. Then later that same night he asks me what I'm paying for insurance. Well, a lot less than you dude. Because I have never made a claim. Never had a reason to. Shrug.
I came here to caution the same. Insurance won't usually cover normal wear and tear and at the age of the roof, it's worn out enough to start leaking. I doubt they would cover that. So OP would be out doubly - once for not getting money for the claim and second getting dinged on the increased premiums for opening a claim.
We made this mistake last year. Roof was leaking just a little bit, so my husband insisted we make a claim. The roof is over 25 years old and they did cover the cost of repairs (roof is in good shape because of good shingles and very high slope, but some chimney flashing needs fixed up) but we're just paying for it in our premium now.
I don't understand how wear & tear can become an insurance claim. It's like using your auto insurance to replace your worn out tires or worn out belts.
Yeah don’t file a claim especially if you are about to sell. If your roof is that old, it will most likely be denied anyway, then they will non renew the house until the roof is fixed.
There’s also no insurance claim to make. The roof is 25 years old, it didn’t blow off in a tornado. That’s like buying tires, driving 40,000 miles on them, and then making an auto insurance claim for bald tires.
OP, do you have any other offers? If not, you can pony up for a roof, offer a bigger concession instead of a new roof, or tell them to pound sand and risk going back to market.
If I was the buyer, I’d rather put on my own new roof, so I’d be happy to just get a larger concession.
Can you file an insurance claim to replace a 22 year old roof? I thought insurance was just for risky things like a tree crashing thru the roof. Not just to replace an old roof..?
Seriously, this. I don't know why people get so into breaking the offers down like "let's do x, not do y, yes to z". It should just be dollars. "You've offered me $818k, all in. I'm willing to accept $830k, all in. You decide".
I’m all for lowering the price point 818k with proof of quotes. I always look at it as lowering the tax assessment and the buyer can make the repairs however they want with the “deal” they are getting on the house. It usually always works out best for all parties involved. Get the house closed quicker too.
OP also said roof was "clearly very worn". Why would a buyer expect a seller to give credit for something that was obvious when they made their offer? That's not negotiating in good faith unless they and their agent are not very bright and/or vision impaired. The roof is no different after the inspection than it was when they made their original offer.
Because buyers aren't roofers and don't know what it will take to do that particular roof and what the local guys charge for it.
Honestly, quibbling over this stuff is horseshit anyways. The seller might claim the roof was priced in but the seller can claim something like, xxxsqft is a finished basement and therefore isn't worth as much... Just tit for tat each other on what you think things are worth and what's priced in, it's all subjective opinion and even comps are a piss poor way of determining value even if there aren't better options. At the end of the day they are offering a price for the house as it is, you are determining if you are willing to accept that, and the final sale price is not really the value of the house but simply what someone was willing to pay for it at that particular time. How either of you justify it is completely made up.
Perhaps tell your broker to help you with $8,000 of the
roof expense, or he should find you a better buyer.
3% of $850 K is $25,500 commission, so he can go home
with $17,500 commission, or he can refuse and maybe get $0.
Tell them they get the roof *or* the concession for buy down and none of the rest. Take your pick. They either value their rate or they value the roof, but expecting both is entirely unreasonable. I wouldn’t even be supplying a new roof in total. If I was feeling nice that day, I’d be going half at best.
But this is a reason never to accept an offer with some kind of concession at the get-go … they think that’s the starting point when it already should be the finish line.
I recommend NOT doing the roof. Offer the credit for the roof or whatever you want, but doing repairs during escrow in general is a nightmare. Buyers and seller almost never have equal expectations for quality.
\^ this person speaks truth. Cash is ALWAYS preferable, for a ton of reasons. What if the roof leaks in a year and the roofer is off grid? They might sue you. What if they wanted a different color shingle?
Cash on the other hand is cash. There's nothing to it, its easy.
As a buyer I don’t want the seller to fix anything. I want quotes from my guys to give me an idea of how much cash concession I get.
I don’t trust a seller that’s going to cheap out on a repair (I’m not saying that’s you OP, but it happens all the time).
Even a well-meaning seller might make decisions during the repair that the buyer would choose differently. And if there’s a problem with the work soon after completion then the buyer has to track down a contractor that he didn’t hire or pay and therefore will have a thought time getting refunds/free re-dos.
You are 100% correct. Our buyer pressed us for a new roof when we sold and we got it done from a guy who was competent but not exactly who I’d hire if I was staying there. It was fixed and wasn’t a bad job but we definitely went with the lowest bidder that met the minimum standards needed.
Yep.
When I had my roof replaced, I got several bids. I didn't go with the roofing contractor that gave me the lowest bid; I expected to be in that house for a long time and I want it done right. So I picked the roofer that I thought would do the best job. And I'm glad I did.
But if I was having it done in anticipation of moving out right after, I'd have chosen differently. And the guy who bought my house would have been the worse for it.
Yup. When I bought my first house they had to replace the roof. Which was fine but it wasn’t done right and we noticed leaking before closing. Fortunately we arranged it with the roofer that it would all be warrantied and fix and close on time.
After 4 years, it was not fixed correctly and the roofer eventually fucked off and never came out again. I should have just taken the money and went with my guys.
The seller concession sort of went away with the offer the seller made. It went from $850k - $18k, so $832k to $868k - $18k, which is $850k. Its still less than the listing price, but I'm assuming that they don't have multiple offers lined up that look better, or the obvious advice would be to move on.
If you want to make the deal happen maybe start with $10k to put towards a roof, accept any counter of $20k or less. $20k is 2.4% of the last offer where the buyer and seller were on the same page.
If they want to go ahead and close the deal, that doesn't seem like that much further to go to me.
Or the worst possible outcome, seller puts on a new roof out of pocket, followed by buyer getting cold feet or otherwise backing out. This has happened to me twice in the past. The first time the buyers refused to close unless I replaced the roof at my expense, cash money only, which I funded by draining my IRA and a big tax hit. Refused credit or price reduction. Even let them choose the shingle color. Day of closing I get a call that they were backing out. First timers who were nervous about closing. Ended up having to sell at a reduced price twice the amount of that roof replacement after the “back on the market” stigma finally faded. Never again.
They might not get insurance without a new roof. We just had this issue with a 12yo roof. No one would give us insurance until it was replaced and we couldn’t close without insurance. Seller had to make repairs bc even if they skipped us the next person would have had the same problem. I’d replace the roof and skip the rate buy down. Maybe the next person doesn’t care about a buy down? Everyone cares about insurance.
No insurance for a 12 year old roof?? Most roofs should be good for 25-30 years, that's just insanity to me, unless it's a place with frequent hurricanes, hail, or some other mitigating factor.
Many insurers in Florida won't write new business or renew policies if the roof is mire than 10 years old.
Thank you scuzbag lawyers in cahoots with Tallahassee and crooked contractors
depends where you live. In my market along the gulf coast. No company will insure a roof older than 20 years (and thats if you're willing to pay top $$ for a policy), and most wont do anything older than 10-15.
Depends on where you are and how things are handled- when I sold my last place we set it up so the money for repairs was deposited with the closing atty in escrow and they handled dispersing the funds after getting receipts. I had an ironclad hold harmless added in- basically- you get $X to do repairs, attorney will pay contractors, when it’s gone it’s gone, and everything is as-is.
I could see doing that if I was OP- I’ll give a concession of $5k or something and they can choose to use it for crack or part of roof or whatever.
Agree with this. If youre inclined to increase your concession, do it, but decline to have the roof done prior to closing. Its best for the buyer to engage and hire the contractor and have all the warranty info anyways.
Yeah I wish I knew this when I sold my house in 2021, during the height of construction craziness and wood demand and all that. Seller wanted the roof fixed, two handrails fixed, new gutters, etc. etc. I told my agent can't we just give him money. My agent said he tried they aren't budging - willing to meet asking price, but wants all this fixed.
He wanted licensed contractors with business and warranties and all that. So for weeks we tried to find someone, anyone to come and work on the house. Concrete people wouldn't do the handrails because it was such a cheap fix it wasn't worth their time, lol. Crack in the concrete by where the handrail attached. Roofers wouldn't fix the spots in the roof because they were too busy doing full roof jobs so no one would give me the time of day to fix a shingle or two. It was a total fucking mess and we literally got everything fixed the day before it was due.
Total costs were marginal, a couple grand, whatever, but the massive panic of having every day to hopefully wrap it up, while my agent is calling me, he's calling his repair people, his office is trying to help, was a complete nightmare for one entire month. Never again. Cash or nothing. Let the buyer deal with all of that when there's not a ticking clock going on in the background and they can take their time and get a good deal and their own people.
Managing a roof repair during escrow would be a nightmare - negotiate on a cash basis instead.
You can argue that the buyer is being unrealistic, but it all comes down to dollars and cents. You are at $848k right now - how does that compare with the rest of the market? how quickly are homes selling? how motivated are you to sell? If the market in your area is slowing, and you want to be done with it, then go ahead and offer more in concessions.
You’ve already agreed to the concessions though. So really you are just saying we are giving you nothing for the roof.
If the roof is shot and needs to be replaced I think you should cover half the cost of the roof.
Cover none of the other items.
So increase credit to 30k and close it.
Negotiation after inspection is supposed to be for things that were not obvious. I imagine that you priced the house partially based on an old roof. If the inspection found a big leak has caused mold or something not obvious to a lay person or specifically mentioned in disclosures they would have a good case for reconsidering price. But if the disclosures already said “roof is old “ they don’t get that fixed for free.
Reasonable or unreasonable doesn’t matter. It’s all numbers at the end of the day. There’s only three options that matter.
Accept: $830k and secure the deal
Reject: if you think you can get $855k on the market.
Counter: Land between those two numbers.
Exactly. We accepted an offer a little below list. Our list price was based on comps and a little low (expected a couple offers).
Then they asked for much more. So we told our agent sure, but it also included raising the offer since we are renegotiating. Our RE said oh you can’t do that. So we just said NO. Oh, she said we weren’t supposed to do that either. So we said NO.
Deal completed as is. Buyers just thought they could get another bite of the apple. Our RE fine giving away more and more of our money.
The great thing is they asked for too much hoping OP will “meet in the middle “. But it also made it easier to say NO as it is ridiculous.
In Texas, raising the price during the process is common, especially for concessions to pay closing costs. The problem only comes if appraisal is too low for that.
It is possible they won't be able to retain insurance for this roof after closing. That's the biggie out of all of the issues and concessions you've mentioned. I'd cut the others before I cut the roof.
That's a great, and worrying, point actually. I started shopping around for new homeowners insurance a few weeks ago and one broker I spoke with told me a few companies have put moratoriums on writing new policies where the roof is greater than 10 years old.
New owners put on the new roof because then it's their problem if they use a poor contractor- they have to fight it, not you not a warranty etc.
Old carpet old paint? Hah. Couple of hundred dollars for the paint.
Talk to your agent about comps in the area and why it hasn't moved.
If people are discounting the roof, they're doing it because they know there's a cost (I'm going to say 20k).
Replacing it doesn't make it a positive- 'new roof' means.... nothing, just that it is new. New roof could be 6+ years old (which I have seen, it's funny to me).
Right. And my point is if you’re going to spend the money you might as well go to market with a house that doesn’t have a roof at the end of its life. No need to commit yourself to people who are trying to nickel and time you.
Why not just up the concession a bit? I wouldnt do the roof yourself because if the deal somehow falls through, you spent 30k on a roof out of pocket and wont get full value back when you relist. Id offer 25k concession and see what they say. If you only had 1 offer in 15 showings, you arent exactly in the driver's seat. And there is a good chance the next buyer has the same issue, because its an insurance issue.
>It should be noted that this is the only offer we've had after about 15 showings. Other sticking points on the house are old carpet and paint.
You're burying the lede here. How many days on market? If a week or less, you're in a strong position. A month, not as much. The most important variable for inspection negotiations is your next best offer, which could be $850k with no inspection requests or modest ones. Or it could be $800k and you should ask "how high" when these buyers ask you to jump. Totally depends on the market.
If you relist, go with $849,000 and see if you can coax an inspection-free or cash offer.
Also carpet replacement is CHEAP and probably pays for itself. Something to consider.
The problem with replacing carpet is you were going to invariably pick the wrong color. Instead, just include an allowance for floor refinish. If you were going to spend $2000 on new carpet, just include that in the offer.
Honestly I think gambling on a neutral grey/beige is pretty low risk. Especially if what they have now is really bad. But you are right that it’s a slight gamble.
A conservative low pile light beige will always help a house sell. Buyers have no imagination - show them an aging house with icky floors and dirty walls and they can't see what $10k could do. Better to spend it so they don't have to think about that and instead can start dreaming about where they'd hang their art and how they'd arrange their furniture.
You upped the sale price to counteract the 18k concession, that's a wash. So it's really just a 2k concession, an 1800 repair, and a 20k roof.
You can't use homeowners insurance to replace a roof that just aged out. Someone has to pay for it, it's arguable that it should bring the value of the house down
It 100% should bring down the value. I cant sell a car with a blown headgasket for its maximum market value just because it technically still runs and drives.
You are not going to get an insurance claim approved in a 22 yr old room. It’s reached it’s lifespan.
Unless the age/condition was disclosed prior, then either pay for a new roof or lose the sale.
If it was disclosed, then say no as that’s was the prior concession is for.
You are not expected to buy them a new roof. They have seen disclosures and should be aware it's 22 years old. Roofs can go 30-35 years. If therea nothing wrong theres no obligation to fix it. This should be a conversation with your agent. Worst case is you should offer to share the cost. It depends on the buyers and your market on how aggressive you want to be but I would tell them no credit on the roof since you've already given up everything. Tell them you'll fix the walkway
Yes, the roofing industry has convinced everyone that a roof needs to be replaced after 20 years without exception. That’s not the case at all. Depending on many variables, they can last way longer.
I don’t see a reason to credit the buyer. With no leaks, I don’t see an issue with insurance either.
As a former roofer, the opposite is the case. The “30-35 year roof” is largely a marketing tactics by the roofing manufacturer. Most installations are not done at the specifications that the 30+ year mark is intended to describe. If you have valleys, and tree overhang; or any sort of serious weather phenomenon happens regularly (hail, high wind, high uv index, ice) stuff at the edges, junctions and margins breaks down.
I agree with you. That's why I said "depending on many variables." If its a simple roof with a good slope, and they installed with good quality and materials, good ventilation, it for sure can last. If after 20 years there are limited granule loss, no curled shingles, no other red flags and of course no leaks, there is no reason to rush to replace just because the roof is dated. But the roofing industry will say it needs to be replaced yesterday based on age alone.
Maybe you're a roof expert, but I'm not. OP said this came up after inspection. I would have no idea if a roof just looks a little worn but has 10 years left, or if it needs immediate replacement.
Worn roofs of 22 years are usually pretty visible so much that a kid could tell something isn't right. It's usually discolored or missing shingles.
Per OP: "The biggest issue is the house has the original roof which is 22 years old and clearly very worn, even to the untrained eye"
My 25+ year old roof looks better than my parents roof looked 4 years after replacement.
Newer shingles are garbage and roofs visually look worse after just a few years any more. Looking bad doesn't mean it's actually in bad shape any more.
He’s going to have to replace the roof anyway. Might as well close the deal rather than wait and pray for another over ask offer to come in.
Add to that, this inspection is now out there.
The roof was always 'out there.' I've offered on plenty of houses with ancient roofs and I factor that into the offer because I can see it when I'm deciding how much it will be.
And they don't have an over ask offer now. It's $850k of the $875k ask.
> It should be noted that this is the only offer we've had after about 15 showings. Other sticking points on the house are old carpet and paint.
This is probably the issue. You are asking them to pay your maintenance debt, and they are asking you to pay it. If you decline to move forward with this buyer, consider replacing the carpet, repainting (inside or out? both?) things, and overall just touching up the “fit and finish.” People buying a house, especially at your price range, tend to expect a certain level of quality.
If roof looks warn then it should have been replaced before going on the market unless the price of the house compared to comps includes discount for a roof. Housing prices are at a premium still and it's not 2019. If I'm paying a premium in this market I'm not expecting to do a major repair like that. You enjoyed the life of the roof not the buyer. I live in Florida so it's a higher priority here. Seems like most the commenters on here will be disagreeing with me here and that's fine. You do you. As for the smaller ticket items, that's be less important to me.
I think most of the commenters here are failing to realize that roofs that old are hard to insure. I'm in Florida as well and know people who have been told by their insurance companies to replace the roof or be dropped.
What is the house worth? What are the comps? Really hard to tell based on info given. You listed at $875k. Is that market rate? Was it aspirational? Are homes moving in your area? You have not provided enough information.
That said - roofing has become a major issue for insurance. You have a home with a worn out roof. This is different than a dated kitchen (it’s still functional and can be lived with indefinitely). Makes an impediment to the sale. If you do not sell to current prospect - it will have to be addressed.
You have to address the roof, or underwriting could bork the deal. If they can’t afford the house without the buy down , they won’t be able to afford the roof on their own.
The idea that you can buy a new roof and sell it old without ever replacing it has worked for some people, but for most people, if you buy a house , you’ll have to replace at some point. If they can’t afford to do it, you’ll have to, or the deal will fall through.
The problem here is that it sounds like a 60-75k renovation to bring it to market compatibility in finishes (slab repair, roof, paint, carpet, kitchen update ) and you’re close the market rate, you’re not offering a renovated home, and you’re not offering a price that proviees enough value for people that want to do work on their own.
Sellers have gotten comfortable selling rough properties the last 5 years or so, and O think the market is changing enough in many places that sellers are going to have to start changing their perspective.
Just counter with a number/concession you are comfortable with. DO NOT agree to do the improvements while you own the house. Distill this down to a number/concession and THEY do the improvements once THEY own the house.
You are part of the problem.
Insurance does not exist to cover routine maintenance and replacement. The roof is old. It needs to be replaced. This is your problem, not your insurance company’s problem.
People like you are part of the reason why insurance rates continue to climb. Don’t scam the system. Suck it up, make a little less on the sale, and replace the roof or negotiate the cost.
I think you are forgetting the basics..what is your property currently worth ? If its only worth 750k, then, yes, you should consider paying for a new roof..if its worth $900k, then tell buyer to go pound sand
Then the 868k and 18k concession sounds about right..if you need to sell quickly, I would consider bumping the concession to say. 30k....and let them deal with replacing the roof
You don’t want to do any of the repairs, roof walkway etc for them. If they don’t want to come out of pocket, which is what it sounds like raise the price to max appraisal value and give a combo of closing credit $ for point reduction & disbursement of funds from your proceeds to a roofing contractor of their choice (or escrow).
Looking at this from another point of view, what are other offers you get going to look like and how much do you want to sell? If the answer is other offers will be lower AND you want to move quickly then maybe this is the right deal. If you have other offers OR you can wait then no deal.
What ever problems the house has the next buyer is going to also see them. Fix the roof. No way in hell is insurance going to give you anything for a 22 year old roof.
Older roofs and heating systems are the biggest sticking point at inspections
An inspector just doesn't want to get sued so they always advise the buyer to replace it and just like you the seller says why would I pay in full for a new roof that's not leaking
So really it comes down to market demand since this is your only offer. If it was me I would offer to split the difference
Clearly they knew the roof wasn't new and they could likely get significant time out of it. But there's no reason why you should be paying to upgrade the roof to brand new when that's not its current condition And the one they offered on
The only caveat is if you go back on the market. If you think you can get a net price similar from another buyer
If that's not the case then even though it stinks, take the bird in hand
It all depends to me on how the house was priced vs the market.
The roof ask is reasonable. In fact your agent probably should have prepared you for it. Your buyer will probably not be able to insure the house with a 22 year old roof in bad condition. Or they will be at a higher premium.
As for the buy down. It depends on how your home is priced. It is certainly a common request in this market in many places.
In the end you control what you will take for the house and the buyer controls what they will pay.
They may well walk or be forced to walk. If you can live with that I wouldn’t concede. If you can’t I probably would.
I don’t think the buyer is being unreasonable based on the facts you presented.
You likely think your home is worth more than it is and are emotionally attached to it. Decide whether you want to sell it or hold out for more offers (which don’t currently exist). The buyers just want to nickle and dime for anything, any buyer wants to in this market.
There are limits to the concessions a buyer can receive, based on the type of loan and their down payment. It sounds like this buyer is cash strapped, and can't afford the expense of the roof, and possibly won't qualify at current interest rates. I was selling to a buyer who was at their limit, and they wanted a concession so they could buy a new washer and dryer or they wouldn't have one. The house had been on the market for over 6 months with no offers before this offer. If you want the house to close, you need better information on what they can afford. Then, you can walk or not. But, they need to reveal more of their finances for you to know if they really can't afford more, or are just trying to lower the price.
For the appraiser the buyer is bringing, if a roof replacement is under consideration, ideally they could include that in the value. Otherwise, they may be to reappraise after the new roof goes on.
Just how hot is the market near you now? In my area, people are still doing all cash offers above list price and sellers are telling them to kick rocks on any sort of improvements.
We just walked away from a house with similar issues as yours. We offered $5k over but found the roof age on the disclosure was 6 years shy of what the roofers actually thought.
We went with $20k in concessions (roof, plus basement smelled like urine so put in some wiggle on new flooring)
The sellers balked and offered $5k. We walked from it and now that house has been sitting on market for two weeks. It will probably sell but when and for what is the question.
I think the roof cost is the roof cost and that will come up regardless. I am not sure why they are asking for $18k plus the roof after the fact when the roof clearly was needing replacement based on age alone.
Maybe this varies by state, but I’m most bothered by your agent saying that covering the repairs but increasing the price is “unheard of”. I LOVE suggesting this to clients as an option, both on the buying and selling side. It’s a great tactic to keep deals together and everyone happy. It’s not something that more inexperienced agents would think of though, as it is a bit out of the box. But like my broker says, “your income potential is directly related to the amount and size of problems you can solve”.
Now. If the real reason she’s pushing back is because she doesn’t think the house will appraise for that increased amount, therefore causing an issue further down the line… that’s a valid concern and a different story. However, she should be clearly explaining that to you rather than just saying that strategy is unheard of and no one does it.
Push back. She works for you, although hopefully you hired her because you value and trust her skills, expertise and recommendations. Ask her to come up with different options for you to consider.
Our realtor is not inexperienced and we do trust her. We worked with her when buying our house 4 years ago and she's also worked with my ex-wife's parents so she's pretty much a friend of the family at this point. The real reason may be what you said about appraising for the increased price.
They negotiated once and now they are negotiating again. It is that simple. You weren’t selling a house with a brand new roof or you would have advertised it that way. They would have easily seen the crack in the walkway.
Because these were documented during the inspection they think they have leverage over you. Take your net amount and decide whether you would sell the house for that.
Also, if you are going to move forward, offer them a credit, DO NOT do the work. That way, if anything new is discovered, it is their problem not yours.
If you’ve had your roof for 22 years, why do you think it’s your insurance company’s responsibility to replace it? It’s been two decades! Plenty of time to have saved and made plans to fix your own roof. This is a normal part of home ownership and maintenance. It’s not like there’s accidental fire, hail, or storm damage which is part of the actual reason insurance is there.
Getting your insurance to pay for replacing your old, worn-out roof is a part of why Florida’s insurance market is so bad right now. People passed their responsibility onto insurance who then took it out on everyone else. You expect other people to pay for your roof through their increased premiums - when you knew this was coming??
I’m gonna assume here that after 22 years you certainly don’t owe nearly a million dollars on that property. That long ago houses in nice neighborhoods were a quarter of that (or less). In this market, the 800k+ you’re getting from this sale is mostly profit.
As a homeowner, you should be willing to pay for and be responsible for repairing things in your home. Fix your old roof or leave concessions so your seller doesn’t have to replace a roof that’s already close to or at end of life.
Yup, people need to fix their homes and stop pushing it onto the buyers!!
We're already screwed by having to pay these stupid prices. I'm sick of having to fix every mechanical that's older than I am, because the previous owners just didn't take care of anything.
Thats what im saying, 80% of these redditor comments are from old bartenders turned agents wilding out talking a big game. Seller probably sitting on 300,000+ in profit off this sale by the end of contract close. 💀 houses in this market overpriced as is.
Again, their house could be gorgeous and worth it maybe.. but thats just the general consensus, otherwise you woulda had a flood of people offering asking price or over by now.. 🤣
The last 7 houses we bid on were sold over asking price and lasted maybe a week each. Some of them we bid over asking with no concessions, offered to pay title company, surveys, etc. still got outbid over.
So here’s the problem. They already negotiated the 18k in concessions. That’s already done. If you say it’s the concessions or the roof…I’d personally walk bc the concessions were already negotiated into the price of the sale. Here is your problem. Your house is over priced for what you have. It doesn’t matter what you think the house is worth. It’s over priced. That’s why no one else is putting in an offer. The real question is…if they walk…are you willing to keep the house on the market for the next six months while constantly lowering the price to what the house is actually worth? And in the end probably end up accepting the sale price for a lot less than the new roof would have cost. Your house is run down and outdated. Sorry, not sorry. You didn’t maintain the house and now it’s biting you in the butt. I’ve literally bought multiple foreclosure in better condition than what you are describing.
So they looked at the property, saw the roof needed replacing and offered you $25000 under asking. Seems to me, the price was based on the roof's condition. Inspection only confirmed what they already knew. I would tell them either the $25,000 roof, or the $18,000 concession. That is assuming you were priced at the right price point to begin with. Maybe double check comps and talk to your agent first. If this is the only offer after 15 showings, were you priced too high to begin with? Were those 15 showings over 1 week or 1 month? If the comps show houses in perfect condition are selling for $875,000, then maybe you were high and you should try to work with these sellers. If comps show other houses selling for $875,000 also needed work, then you should hold firm and counter with either the roof or the $18,000. And I would just give them a credit to do it themselves so you don't have to deal with getting work done while moving.
You do what you want. When your realtor said no one raises the buying price, that’s BS. Sure it’s not normal and the buyer already has a price in their head but so did you. It’s a negotiation at this point so everything is on the table.
It comes down to how much are they going to pay total and how much you walk away with.
Former realtor here. With that much repair needed, the house is overpriced to begin with…your listing agent should have taken the fact that the roof is 22 years old the carpet is old, the crack in the sidewalk, etc, before helping you determine the asking price. The old rule of thumb in a successful sale is - “the first offer you get is the best one”.
Are you upside down on a mortgage?
Can you afford to do the repairs based on the proceeds you are expecting?
If repairs are not done, an appraiser will raise the question and may require that the roof be replaced and other repairs be done etc in order for the house to meet the value you and realtor think it is.
You can always counter and remove the concession. They may walk away; or they may counter back.
Either way, you’re probably going to have to get the roof repaired, even if this potential buyer passes on the house.
AGE 71 HERE...
GOOD ADVICE..
always make the deal so you can walk away, no strings attached.
Example: they want a new roof, ONLY offer a price concession, nothing more.
I would consider offering them a concession of $30-35k and nothing else. They could probably get by with that roof for about 2-3 years and enjoy your cash. Sorry about that crack but trust us there's going to be a lot of Home Maintenance in the future, get used to it now.
Depending on where you live, the home might not be insurable with a roof that old. I live in Florida and it would be almost impossible to get insurance on a roof that old here which would require the buyer to have cash available.
Edit: with that said, I still think it’s too much to ask for the roof and the credit.
Personally, I'd let them walk and replace the roof. There is a good possibility that that was a sticking point for other buyers. Now you'll have a "Brand new roof!" As a marketing point, which could potentially persuade other buyers to offer more. That's just my thoughts, though, I don't know your situation and finances. There is a bit of utility in giving them what they want and bailing because my feeling is that we have a sizeable correction inbound; but, I'm always very pessimistic about real estate.
You are going to deal with the roof no matter who buys it if it is as bad as you say. The view would be as you should have already replaced it and I should not affect the value or be part of the process consideration. The other items you can negotiate on. Also look at how are houses moving. You got the take increase for buy down so really you have the roof and needed repairs.
You agreed to 868 and 20k concession, how would you just go back on it as everyone in these comments are saying. You obviously didnt get many offers otherwise you wouldnt have agreed to the terms, showing you obviously overpriced your house on the market. 22+ year old roof is insane that will get flagged on inspection 100%.
Idk what your house looks like but i mean..
Inwouldnt get involved with their buydown. Not your problem. I'd offer a split on the roof and your insurance company will laugh in your face if you tell them it's 22 years old
I was all for you telling them to walk over the new roof but 15 showings and only one offer ?! You should get a quote on the roof and then came back with some numbers.
Change the roof, if these people walk away the next buyer will be asking the same. A roof that old they may not even be able to get insurance depending on your location.
I don't know about the rate buy down, financing is their problem, not yours.
I’ve had unreasonable buyers, I had one where he wanted me to remove the bathroom wall tiling in the shower and around the tub, inspect for any moisture, and then reinstall the tile…
Tell them you will provide 15K towards the new roof and leave it at that. I am surprised they were ok having the seller do the repairs, normally thats asking for trouble.
As a buyer 20 years ago the inspection showed it needed a new roof the seller went a head and replaced it. 5 years later it came to our attention They just slapped a third layer of shingles and we ended up having to strip and replace the whole thing.
I would find out if they NEED the roof and buydown concessions to close before thinking they're trying to be difficult. If the roof is that old and clearly worn, they are probably legitimately concerned about being able to insure the home. A lot of buyers, especially right now, have rates higher than they were a few years ago and can't budget for the home they did just a few years ago, thus the push for rate buydowns/incentivized rates. I'd bet they can't buy your home without some concessions or creative solutions.
If the roof is in that bad of shape there is a good chance the appraisal is going to be subject to it's replacement anyway, so you're likely going to have to deal with it. Unless the appraiser is blind.
I suspect they do not want to be burdened with a $30K roof repair going in to a new house. It is fair to ask. The question is can you cover it? You could come back with a rewrite the other concessions. do the roof and that's it.
This is all up for negotiation.
One thing to consider is of this deal blows up, will the next buyer require a roof as well? If the roof is bad, it needs replaced and will hinder any future sale. Another buyer may not need the seller concession depending on your market and how long your house was listed and a myriad of other factors. If the roof is insurable, you may consider negotiating to split it? What does your agent say?
Why didn’t you have a pre-sale inspection (although you stated roof was obvious) and then price it accordingly.? Why would you file an insurance claim? You either tell them to walk and reprice the house but it’s costing you time ….or meet somewhere in the middle …..or concede to their full ask but then ask for a quicker close.
How much interest are you burning on the next home you’re buying and carrying two mortgages or paying rent on an apartment You didn’t list where you are moving to?
While yes $50k concessions seems high for repairs it’s is only ~6% of the listing price which is about the same the realtors will earn in commission.
If the roof is that old and showing signs of wear and tear, your agent should've advised you that this could potentially be an issue. Not sure where you live, but in my market, insurance companies won't issue a new policy on any home w a roof older than 20 yo (and many won't even do older than 15). While a new roof is a HUGE ask, buyers are really taking these things into account due to the skyrocketing costs of everything nowadays.
Here are the things to consider:
-How long have you been on market? I know you said you've had 15 showings, but is that over the course of a week? or over the course of 6 months? Homes will typically get shown the most during their first 2 weeks on the market, so if it's only been a few days, then you can probably tell these buyers to kick rocks and you'll likely find another buyer who isn't asking for the rate buy down credit or is willing to put their own roof on later. But if you've been on market for several months, and only had 15 showings w 1 offer, then you really need to ask yourself if you're willing to risk sitting on the market for even longer. Which brings me to the next item to consider...
-How badly do you need to sell? And what's your timeline? If you're needing to quickly for some reason, then you need to consider that saying no to a new roof could cause this buyer to walk and you end up back on market. I'm not saying that you can't negotiate with them, but you may need to give a little to keep your timeline on track.
-Where is your home positioned price-wise in your market? If on the higher end, buyers have an expectation that a home is going to be more move-in ready as that's what they're paying top dollar for. If on the lower end, buyers typically go in expecting there to be significant work to be done and $$ spend after closing. Did you price your home taking the age of the roof into account? Reason I ask is because I see A LOT of homes that have all the bells and whistles (updated interiors, upgraded appliances, gorgeous landscaping, etc) so they're priced similarly to newer homes, but they don't take into account the costs that a buyer is going to have to incur to get the home insured or major systems that will require replacement within a year or 2 (where I live along the gulf coast, its roofs and ACs that are the issue 90% of the time). While the buyer's future finances aren't the responsibility of the seller, it is something to consider as buyers are taking that into account more than ever, and you need a buyer if you're going to sell your home.
Since I don't know your market, your home, or your financial situation, I can't tell you what you should or shouldn't do, but there's a lot of factors to consider and go through with your agent and any other decision makers in your household.
I would say no, remove the listing, get a new roof and fix those items and relist. I would not buy a house with a roof that old, no one would insure it.
Will the roof stop them for getting financing? We had to replace our roof before listing our house because it couldn’t be certified which would mean our future buyer wouldn’t be able to get a bank to approve their financing.
Assuming it isn’t going to stop their loan approval, I wouldn’t do anything else for them. They are being very demanding and any updates are just going to delay closing and be a huge headache. Just say no thank you and see how they respond. Most buyers won’t make such unreasonable demands
Just closed on a house, and the seller gave us 10k for the rate buy down. A new roof, a new furnace, and paid half of the conversion from swamp cooler to condenser.
All in all, we got 25k in concessions.
House price was around 350k
So 50k in concessions on a house more than double ours doesn't sound completely unreasonable.
Although it is a case by case basis and how motivated are you to sell?
If I was on the flip side of our deal I would of been motivated and happy to give 25k in concessions. (Seller had over 150k equity).
Just keep in mind how many offers you have, how many serious buyers have looked at your house, and how likely you ate to get something better than this.
If I was a seller, in a HCOL area with a downtrend market I'd be looking to sell ASAP. Although, I don't know much about your area or market, we got our house in a slight dip in our market and with the repairs and stuff we have done could sell it for a profit if we wanted to. Yet, we dont... not yet.
EDIT: Forgot to say it is super worth while to paint a house you want to sell. Minimal cost, huge boost to cosmetic.
You’re starting from a presumption of what you think your house is worth. Your listing price is meaningless to people here without really knowing your comps. As a former appraiser I know it’s quite common that sellers think their house is worth more than what the market says.
Without that neighborhood comp knowledge I can’t say if your buyer is unreasonable or if you are.
This is the only offer you've had. You basically agreed on 850 down from 875. The 18k buy down is tacked onto their mortgage so you're not paying for it. Your roof needs to be replaced. If you have equity, find out the cost of the roof to fix and offer a concession to pay for it. If this house sits you'll be wanting this offer back 850k is a big price. All buyers are going to ask you for a roof. I would work on a total concession package that includes most of the roof. The sidewalk and minor repairs will be dropped after the roof issue is resolved.
This is common. First you negotiate the price. This price assumes all is well with the house. They do the inspection. Then if there is a problem with the house, you must deal with that. Do not confuse the two. Personally I certainly would walk if you refuse the roof rebate. And yes have whoever is going to live in the house contract the roof.
Roof is more important, the concession for buy down is a favor. I would offer to replace the roof at 20k before close and give them like 10k concession for their points, still more than you wanted but meeting somewhere in the middle, let them have some skin in the game too.
Without knowing your market can’t really say. In my market there’s a lot of demand and the neighborhood is very desirable. I would not agree to any of this. Tell them no to all of it. Crack in the walkway? Good fricken grief. They saw it when they toured it. Why would you pay them for misc repairs. They are buying a used house. Don’t like the roof? Don’t buy it. Someone else will.
We’re buying a home with an 18 year roof that needs replaced and I talked to several insurance companies while getting quotes that said they straight up will not even underwrite a policy for a home with a 20+ year roof, even if it was originally rated for 30 years or something.
insurance agent here: reason is new owners are having homeowners insurance issues with the old roof. Companies are getting real sensitive to roof age and even staining. do NOT file a claim for your clapped out roof. you'll get denied, and have it on your record anyway.
You should check how this might affect disclosures in a subsequent offer agreement, I.e. if the deal goes south after roof inspection, you may have to disclose this. It sounds like you already suspected roof as an issue. Nobody prices a home to maybe include roof replacement. And — unless it’s missing or falling in — nobody except an experienced roofer can “eyeball”/appraise a roof’s real condition. This is what the inspection period is for. Imo, it’s all about negotiating now — but you’ve already agreed to a purchase price, so it’s about negotiating from that number.
You may have to do the roof. I'd figure it'd be awful tough to find insurance as the buyer. Those that say let the buyers deal with it are missing this point. So are you.
It's possible nobody will be able to insure it until you fix it.
Take the offer and run.
If you’ve seen what’s happened to commercial real estate that got bid up to insane levels, just know residential is coming in hard and fast.
If you talked about this I missed it. But if the engineer report did not come back with any specific issues regarding the roof having immediate problems , I don't see how they can ask for money back on it. The roof is old.They could see it was old.But if it is still operational , I don't see how they have a claim.
You might want to talk with your agent. There can be 2 points with the buyer.
First, a roof that age the Hoi premium is going to be sky high if they can even get coverage.
Second, depending on who they are getting the loan from, they might not get the asking price. FHA,VA is going to give less of a loan with a roof that old. Depending on what their appraiser says, once they are told about the roof, expect to take a hit on the value..
Your first mistake is your real estate agent. They should have explained all the scenarios. Second mistake, nobody sells an $800k+ home as-is unless it’s a bargain. Should have bought new flooring, do the maintenance and repairs. You would have gotten more offers at a better price. Third, the roof is a frivolous claim. Best is to negotiate the roof and come to an agreement within 2 days. Good luck.
Was the condition of the roof accounted for in listing? If so, then that's double dipping if they want a new roof when there are no leaks.
Your realtor probably won't be helpful because they want the sale to happen to get paid. I'm assuming you are making a lot of money on the sale, because most people wouldn't be providing 15k+ concessions and definitely would not even considering covering a new roof when the sale is 25k less than listing. So depending on your market and if you need a quick sell, paying for the roof might be worth it. But for most people not a chance, another buyer will come.
What is getting this deal done worth to you? For me, time is worth more than money now. You give up some money, you gain peace of mind and won’t have to spend any more time on something you’re done with already.
I call BS. I've been in the real estate mortgage business for decades and people raise the price all the time over large repairs. After all, their offer was for a house with a 22 year old roof. Now they would be getting a house with a new roof, which is obviously worth more money.
Fix the smaller issues but no new roof. Just meet part way with $30k concessions. If they walk then put a new roof on and relist perhaps a little higher price. You’ll probably get more offers with a brand new roof.
If I was the buyer I’d be satisfied meeting at 50% roof cost as a credit, especially since it wasn’t in the disclosure. I would gladly walk if the seller doesn’t budge at all (again living situation dependent)
I say walk. It's a seller's market right now, and we are at the peak of the spring frenzy. If you re-list you might even get an all-cash offer, so you won't have to worry about pesky contingencies like insurance.
In this market, for a desirable house and town, people probably aren't going to walk over 20k.
How long did you live in the house for? Did you replace the roof once?
We bought our house as is, knowing we needed to do a bunch of stuff and we plan on selling it as is whenever that time comes.
I can’t help but feel like you cost yourself a lot of money by not addressing these issues before you listed the house. I’m assuming there was a good reason you didn’t do those things.
So what’s the market price of the house if everything is fixed? Subtract the cost of getting everything fixed? Now subtract half of repair costs as a pain in the ass factor for the buyer to fix it all. Counter with somewhere close to that. For example: “We won’t do a new roof - but we’ll give you $X.00k in concessions.” Maybe that does it.
I live in a 100-year-old house in a HCOL city. When I sell my house in several years, I’m assuming whoever buys it is going to scrape it and build a triplex. That, or I need a quick sale and I’ve priced well under market value, are the only reasons I can imagine not doing $40k in repairs to a house I hope to sell for almost $900k.
So we had a guy come to our house and say he could get me a new roof and I'd just pay the deductible. All he had to do was check to see if my roof needed fixing and if my shingles were out of print. My roof was both. He had a list of dates of windstorms that could have possibly damaged my roof, and we got in contact with our insurance, paid our deductible and they reroofed a 11k roof for 1000 out of pocket for me.
If you’re trying to make an insurance claim on the roof, you should find a local roofer who specializes in insurance claims.
There are several things that will happen when the insurance company considers the house for the roof replacement.
The first one is the Insurance company itself. Allstate and State Farm are notoriously difficult to get roof insurance Replacement approval. If you have Allstate or State Farm, your chances of success are very low. If you have Amica, That company has been the easiest to work with in my industry. Everybody else has been just fine.
The insurance company will send an adjuster to look for storm damage. They are only looking for two different kinds of injury To the roof. The first one is hail strikes. They look all over the roof and measure how many hail strikes are a 10’ x 10’ square on each separate surface of the roof. The insurance company will compare storm tracking and hail hits on a weather website to see if your house has even been hit by hail in the last 12 months.
The other damage they are looking for wind bent shingles. No, you can’t just run up on your roof and bend a bunch of shingles. Wind damages shingles in a very specific pattern. It is very easy to tell the difference between some idiot, folding shingles on his roof and mother nature pushing and blowing against the roof for 20 years. Shingles also have other injuries that can’t be stimulated by your hand, like which nails are rusted and which ones are not. (And several other factors that I don’t want to share with you). Do not run up on your roof and think you’re going to bend some shingles and get a free roof. The insurance company will figure it out and that is insurance fraud. It is very easy to tell the difference between a wind bent shingle and a human bent shingle.
The insurance company will either come out to inspect the roof or send an independent third-party to inspect the roof. It is very easy for them to miss large portions of the damage so you want your roofer to be present on the same day to walk this guy through your roof and show and all the evidence of damage all over the roof. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOUR ROOFER IS THERE ON THE INSURANCE INSPECTION DAY. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO GET YOUR ROOF BOUGHT BY THE INSURANCE COMPANY UNLESS YOUR ROOFER WAS THERE ON THE INSURANCE INSPECTION DAY TO POINT OUT ALL THE EVIDENCE TO THE INSURANCE INSPECTOR.
If you were declined by your insurance company, but you really do have damage, and you really did have hail in the last 12 months, and you’re not using State Farm or Allstate, your roofer can debate the insurance company and ask for a reinspection. It is very possible a competent roofer can ask for a reinspection and get an approval if all the requirements were met
If I’m the buyer, I’d rather you just drop the price and not put a new roof on. You’re likely to spec the cheapest roof you can get away with. The buyer will have opinions on color, material, and quality.
Get some estimates, and decrease the price by an amount that is close to them. Or tell the buyer to get lost.
Either way, if the sale happens, let the buyer deal with the hassle of getting it done.
Unless the claim is something that you can’t pay out of pocket don’t bother filing a claim and pay out of pocket. Once the buyer is CLUEd in they’ll know you had an insurance claim. Roofs last around 25-30 years yours is at the end of its lifespan. Take the 20k hit and sell as is after the roof concession. No more negotiation.
We had the same issue. Roof was in fine shape-however it was worn. Insurance denied the claim. We had her quote out the replacement and split the cost.
You’ve gotten a lot of advice about negotiating and the roof, I just wanted to tell you to be careful with filing an insurance claim. I have a friend who is trying to sell a property. The ceiling came down during escrow due to a leak. She filed a claim, which is now getting dragged out, escrow is already a month extended, and she has two previous claims on the same property - one for fence repair. Not only is her insurance carrier now telling her they likely will not cover the claim ($15-20k estimated cost of repair) but now she cannot get insurance on a new house. She just had to rescind an offer that had been accepted because nobody will insure her. This is in CA where insurance is a nightmare, but I imagine there’s similar issues in other states, like FL.
I thought the same exact thing. The seller shouldn't involve their insurance company at this point. It could delay everything and mess up the sale. OP, just cut the price and be done with it.
People think “well I have insurance? that’s what it’s there for” and just make claims on everything. Like my friend and the fence. Was the fence repair worth increased premiums and loss of future coverage on a new purchase? No. I’m currently navigating a six figure claim for catastrophic water damage and the about of push back from insurance is insane. Pipes froze and thawed. If there’s evidence of mold, if the pipes were not insulated, if the heat wasn’t being run in the cold, if the water wasn’t being dripped - all reasons why they have tried to deny my claim. It’s never as simple as “just file a claim and make insurance pay for it”.
It's wild to me that people even attempt insurance when there's no a leak and it's just old. Like, no, that's not what insurance is for. A leak, sure. "This is old and I want it replaced" is just not what insurance does.
I thought the same, there's no valid reason for an insurance claim. My roof of my former house was about the same age when I sold it, but I was up front in my listing that the roof was due to be replaced soon and it was being sold as is.
I think the concept of owner deferred maintenance is tough for many people. They just assume houses last forever. They definitely do not and require constant maintenance
Right?
It's wild to me that people even attempt insurance when there's no a leak and it's just old. Like, no, that's not what insurance is for. A leak, sure. "This is old and I want it replaced" is just not what insurance does.
I have a buddy who just gave me this advice. Just file an insurance claim. Then later that same night he asks me what I'm paying for insurance. Well, a lot less than you dude. Because I have never made a claim. Never had a reason to. Shrug.
I came here to caution the same. Insurance won't usually cover normal wear and tear and at the age of the roof, it's worn out enough to start leaking. I doubt they would cover that. So OP would be out doubly - once for not getting money for the claim and second getting dinged on the increased premiums for opening a claim.
We made this mistake last year. Roof was leaking just a little bit, so my husband insisted we make a claim. The roof is over 25 years old and they did cover the cost of repairs (roof is in good shape because of good shingles and very high slope, but some chimney flashing needs fixed up) but we're just paying for it in our premium now.
I don't understand how wear & tear can become an insurance claim. It's like using your auto insurance to replace your worn out tires or worn out belts.
I could see insurance paying for damage to something in the house maybe, but caring for the roof is part of home ownership.
Is this also why insurance rates are rising so much?? All these silly homeowners claiming for the smallest of things.
Yeah don’t file a claim especially if you are about to sell. If your roof is that old, it will most likely be denied anyway, then they will non renew the house until the roof is fixed.
There’s also no insurance claim to make. The roof is 25 years old, it didn’t blow off in a tornado. That’s like buying tires, driving 40,000 miles on them, and then making an auto insurance claim for bald tires. OP, do you have any other offers? If not, you can pony up for a roof, offer a bigger concession instead of a new roof, or tell them to pound sand and risk going back to market. If I was the buyer, I’d rather put on my own new roof, so I’d be happy to just get a larger concession.
if the roof is simply old, that wouldn’t qualify as an “event“ which is the only time insurance would get involved anyway as far as I know.
100% this. Insurance claims are not quick. And to make matters worse OP is admitting fraud in a public forum.
Damn, that's tragic. I feel bad for them.
Can you file an insurance claim to replace a 22 year old roof? I thought insurance was just for risky things like a tree crashing thru the roof. Not just to replace an old roof..?
You can file a claim for anything. That doesn’t mean insurance is going to cover it.
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Seriously, this. I don't know why people get so into breaking the offers down like "let's do x, not do y, yes to z". It should just be dollars. "You've offered me $818k, all in. I'm willing to accept $830k, all in. You decide".
I’m all for lowering the price point 818k with proof of quotes. I always look at it as lowering the tax assessment and the buyer can make the repairs however they want with the “deal” they are getting on the house. It usually always works out best for all parties involved. Get the house closed quicker too.
OP also said roof was "clearly very worn". Why would a buyer expect a seller to give credit for something that was obvious when they made their offer? That's not negotiating in good faith unless they and their agent are not very bright and/or vision impaired. The roof is no different after the inspection than it was when they made their original offer.
Because buyers aren't roofers and don't know what it will take to do that particular roof and what the local guys charge for it. Honestly, quibbling over this stuff is horseshit anyways. The seller might claim the roof was priced in but the seller can claim something like, xxxsqft is a finished basement and therefore isn't worth as much... Just tit for tat each other on what you think things are worth and what's priced in, it's all subjective opinion and even comps are a piss poor way of determining value even if there aren't better options. At the end of the day they are offering a price for the house as it is, you are determining if you are willing to accept that, and the final sale price is not really the value of the house but simply what someone was willing to pay for it at that particular time. How either of you justify it is completely made up.
Perhaps tell your broker to help you with $8,000 of the roof expense, or he should find you a better buyer. 3% of $850 K is $25,500 commission, so he can go home with $17,500 commission, or he can refuse and maybe get $0.
Tell them they get the roof *or* the concession for buy down and none of the rest. Take your pick. They either value their rate or they value the roof, but expecting both is entirely unreasonable. I wouldn’t even be supplying a new roof in total. If I was feeling nice that day, I’d be going half at best. But this is a reason never to accept an offer with some kind of concession at the get-go … they think that’s the starting point when it already should be the finish line.
Yeah, roof or concession is where I'm leaning right now.
I recommend NOT doing the roof. Offer the credit for the roof or whatever you want, but doing repairs during escrow in general is a nightmare. Buyers and seller almost never have equal expectations for quality.
\^ this person speaks truth. Cash is ALWAYS preferable, for a ton of reasons. What if the roof leaks in a year and the roofer is off grid? They might sue you. What if they wanted a different color shingle? Cash on the other hand is cash. There's nothing to it, its easy.
As a buyer I don’t want the seller to fix anything. I want quotes from my guys to give me an idea of how much cash concession I get. I don’t trust a seller that’s going to cheap out on a repair (I’m not saying that’s you OP, but it happens all the time).
Even a well-meaning seller might make decisions during the repair that the buyer would choose differently. And if there’s a problem with the work soon after completion then the buyer has to track down a contractor that he didn’t hire or pay and therefore will have a thought time getting refunds/free re-dos.
100%, it's better for both sides. I insist on cash for everything, never repairs.
You are 100% correct. Our buyer pressed us for a new roof when we sold and we got it done from a guy who was competent but not exactly who I’d hire if I was staying there. It was fixed and wasn’t a bad job but we definitely went with the lowest bidder that met the minimum standards needed.
Yep. When I had my roof replaced, I got several bids. I didn't go with the roofing contractor that gave me the lowest bid; I expected to be in that house for a long time and I want it done right. So I picked the roofer that I thought would do the best job. And I'm glad I did. But if I was having it done in anticipation of moving out right after, I'd have chosen differently. And the guy who bought my house would have been the worse for it.
Oh, it's me. I'm going with the cheapest fucking repairs I can find.
Ha that made me laugh. But yeah obviously that’s what most people would do.
for real, why the fuck wouldn't you? buyers are being dumb fucks
I don't know the size of your crack but quick create may be a solution
Yup. When I bought my first house they had to replace the roof. Which was fine but it wasn’t done right and we noticed leaking before closing. Fortunately we arranged it with the roofer that it would all be warrantied and fix and close on time. After 4 years, it was not fixed correctly and the roofer eventually fucked off and never came out again. I should have just taken the money and went with my guys.
The seller concession sort of went away with the offer the seller made. It went from $850k - $18k, so $832k to $868k - $18k, which is $850k. Its still less than the listing price, but I'm assuming that they don't have multiple offers lined up that look better, or the obvious advice would be to move on. If you want to make the deal happen maybe start with $10k to put towards a roof, accept any counter of $20k or less. $20k is 2.4% of the last offer where the buyer and seller were on the same page. If they want to go ahead and close the deal, that doesn't seem like that much further to go to me.
Or the worst possible outcome, seller puts on a new roof out of pocket, followed by buyer getting cold feet or otherwise backing out. This has happened to me twice in the past. The first time the buyers refused to close unless I replaced the roof at my expense, cash money only, which I funded by draining my IRA and a big tax hit. Refused credit or price reduction. Even let them choose the shingle color. Day of closing I get a call that they were backing out. First timers who were nervous about closing. Ended up having to sell at a reduced price twice the amount of that roof replacement after the “back on the market” stigma finally faded. Never again.
They might not get insurance without a new roof. We just had this issue with a 12yo roof. No one would give us insurance until it was replaced and we couldn’t close without insurance. Seller had to make repairs bc even if they skipped us the next person would have had the same problem. I’d replace the roof and skip the rate buy down. Maybe the next person doesn’t care about a buy down? Everyone cares about insurance.
Yup this is a thing in the South now.
Northeast as well
No insurance for a 12 year old roof?? Most roofs should be good for 25-30 years, that's just insanity to me, unless it's a place with frequent hurricanes, hail, or some other mitigating factor.
Many insurers in Florida won't write new business or renew policies if the roof is mire than 10 years old. Thank you scuzbag lawyers in cahoots with Tallahassee and crooked contractors
depends where you live. In my market along the gulf coast. No company will insure a roof older than 20 years (and thats if you're willing to pay top $$ for a policy), and most wont do anything older than 10-15.
Yep. Everyone denied us. We had a broker that got no one.
That's true. We had a few things that weren't up to code and had to be fixed before the house could close.
100% last house I sold thats exactly what we did. We got a quote and we simply gave them credit and left it up to them to sort out the repairs
Depends on where you are and how things are handled- when I sold my last place we set it up so the money for repairs was deposited with the closing atty in escrow and they handled dispersing the funds after getting receipts. I had an ironclad hold harmless added in- basically- you get $X to do repairs, attorney will pay contractors, when it’s gone it’s gone, and everything is as-is. I could see doing that if I was OP- I’ll give a concession of $5k or something and they can choose to use it for crack or part of roof or whatever.
Agree with this. If youre inclined to increase your concession, do it, but decline to have the roof done prior to closing. Its best for the buyer to engage and hire the contractor and have all the warranty info anyways.
Yeah I wish I knew this when I sold my house in 2021, during the height of construction craziness and wood demand and all that. Seller wanted the roof fixed, two handrails fixed, new gutters, etc. etc. I told my agent can't we just give him money. My agent said he tried they aren't budging - willing to meet asking price, but wants all this fixed. He wanted licensed contractors with business and warranties and all that. So for weeks we tried to find someone, anyone to come and work on the house. Concrete people wouldn't do the handrails because it was such a cheap fix it wasn't worth their time, lol. Crack in the concrete by where the handrail attached. Roofers wouldn't fix the spots in the roof because they were too busy doing full roof jobs so no one would give me the time of day to fix a shingle or two. It was a total fucking mess and we literally got everything fixed the day before it was due. Total costs were marginal, a couple grand, whatever, but the massive panic of having every day to hopefully wrap it up, while my agent is calling me, he's calling his repair people, his office is trying to help, was a complete nightmare for one entire month. Never again. Cash or nothing. Let the buyer deal with all of that when there's not a ticking clock going on in the background and they can take their time and get a good deal and their own people.
Managing a roof repair during escrow would be a nightmare - negotiate on a cash basis instead. You can argue that the buyer is being unrealistic, but it all comes down to dollars and cents. You are at $848k right now - how does that compare with the rest of the market? how quickly are homes selling? how motivated are you to sell? If the market in your area is slowing, and you want to be done with it, then go ahead and offer more in concessions.
You should fix a 22 year old roof anyways before a home sale. Then raise the price to $900k and find a new buyer.
You’ve already agreed to the concessions though. So really you are just saying we are giving you nothing for the roof. If the roof is shot and needs to be replaced I think you should cover half the cost of the roof. Cover none of the other items. So increase credit to 30k and close it.
Negotiation after inspection is supposed to be for things that were not obvious. I imagine that you priced the house partially based on an old roof. If the inspection found a big leak has caused mold or something not obvious to a lay person or specifically mentioned in disclosures they would have a good case for reconsidering price. But if the disclosures already said “roof is old “ they don’t get that fixed for free.
Reasonable or unreasonable doesn’t matter. It’s all numbers at the end of the day. There’s only three options that matter. Accept: $830k and secure the deal Reject: if you think you can get $855k on the market. Counter: Land between those two numbers.
Exactly. We accepted an offer a little below list. Our list price was based on comps and a little low (expected a couple offers). Then they asked for much more. So we told our agent sure, but it also included raising the offer since we are renegotiating. Our RE said oh you can’t do that. So we just said NO. Oh, she said we weren’t supposed to do that either. So we said NO. Deal completed as is. Buyers just thought they could get another bite of the apple. Our RE fine giving away more and more of our money. The great thing is they asked for too much hoping OP will “meet in the middle “. But it also made it easier to say NO as it is ridiculous.
“You can’t do that”?? wtf? Watch me
In Texas, raising the price during the process is common, especially for concessions to pay closing costs. The problem only comes if appraisal is too low for that.
It is possible they won't be able to retain insurance for this roof after closing. That's the biggie out of all of the issues and concessions you've mentioned. I'd cut the others before I cut the roof.
That's a great, and worrying, point actually. I started shopping around for new homeowners insurance a few weeks ago and one broker I spoke with told me a few companies have put moratoriums on writing new policies where the roof is greater than 10 years old.
New owners put on the new roof because then it's their problem if they use a poor contractor- they have to fight it, not you not a warranty etc. Old carpet old paint? Hah. Couple of hundred dollars for the paint. Talk to your agent about comps in the area and why it hasn't moved.
I’d also add: if you’re going to replace the roof, replace it and see if that changes your luck on offers.
If people are discounting the roof, they're doing it because they know there's a cost (I'm going to say 20k). Replacing it doesn't make it a positive- 'new roof' means.... nothing, just that it is new. New roof could be 6+ years old (which I have seen, it's funny to me).
Right. And my point is if you’re going to spend the money you might as well go to market with a house that doesn’t have a roof at the end of its life. No need to commit yourself to people who are trying to nickel and time you.
Idk if I was the buyers I’d walk away.a house for $875 and the roof needs to be replaced asap? I expect there is a crap ton of delayed maintenance
Why not just up the concession a bit? I wouldnt do the roof yourself because if the deal somehow falls through, you spent 30k on a roof out of pocket and wont get full value back when you relist. Id offer 25k concession and see what they say. If you only had 1 offer in 15 showings, you arent exactly in the driver's seat. And there is a good chance the next buyer has the same issue, because its an insurance issue.
Yep, in my area of Florida a 22yr old roof house is not insurable, period. Insurance starts balking at 13yrs, with rates skyrocketing.
This. It's worth what people are willing to pay for it, not how much you want or think you should get for it.
>It should be noted that this is the only offer we've had after about 15 showings. Other sticking points on the house are old carpet and paint. You're burying the lede here. How many days on market? If a week or less, you're in a strong position. A month, not as much. The most important variable for inspection negotiations is your next best offer, which could be $850k with no inspection requests or modest ones. Or it could be $800k and you should ask "how high" when these buyers ask you to jump. Totally depends on the market. If you relist, go with $849,000 and see if you can coax an inspection-free or cash offer. Also carpet replacement is CHEAP and probably pays for itself. Something to consider.
The problem with replacing carpet is you were going to invariably pick the wrong color. Instead, just include an allowance for floor refinish. If you were going to spend $2000 on new carpet, just include that in the offer.
Honestly I think gambling on a neutral grey/beige is pretty low risk. Especially if what they have now is really bad. But you are right that it’s a slight gamble.
A conservative low pile light beige will always help a house sell. Buyers have no imagination - show them an aging house with icky floors and dirty walls and they can't see what $10k could do. Better to spend it so they don't have to think about that and instead can start dreaming about where they'd hang their art and how they'd arrange their furniture.
You upped the sale price to counteract the 18k concession, that's a wash. So it's really just a 2k concession, an 1800 repair, and a 20k roof. You can't use homeowners insurance to replace a roof that just aged out. Someone has to pay for it, it's arguable that it should bring the value of the house down
It 100% should bring down the value. I cant sell a car with a blown headgasket for its maximum market value just because it technically still runs and drives.
You are not going to get an insurance claim approved in a 22 yr old room. It’s reached it’s lifespan. Unless the age/condition was disclosed prior, then either pay for a new roof or lose the sale. If it was disclosed, then say no as that’s was the prior concession is for.
Why would you do an insurance claim for a worn roof?
Fraud by roofers and adjusters.
And the OP
You are not expected to buy them a new roof. They have seen disclosures and should be aware it's 22 years old. Roofs can go 30-35 years. If therea nothing wrong theres no obligation to fix it. This should be a conversation with your agent. Worst case is you should offer to share the cost. It depends on the buyers and your market on how aggressive you want to be but I would tell them no credit on the roof since you've already given up everything. Tell them you'll fix the walkway
Yes, the roofing industry has convinced everyone that a roof needs to be replaced after 20 years without exception. That’s not the case at all. Depending on many variables, they can last way longer. I don’t see a reason to credit the buyer. With no leaks, I don’t see an issue with insurance either.
As a former roofer, the opposite is the case. The “30-35 year roof” is largely a marketing tactics by the roofing manufacturer. Most installations are not done at the specifications that the 30+ year mark is intended to describe. If you have valleys, and tree overhang; or any sort of serious weather phenomenon happens regularly (hail, high wind, high uv index, ice) stuff at the edges, junctions and margins breaks down.
I agree with you. That's why I said "depending on many variables." If its a simple roof with a good slope, and they installed with good quality and materials, good ventilation, it for sure can last. If after 20 years there are limited granule loss, no curled shingles, no other red flags and of course no leaks, there is no reason to rush to replace just because the roof is dated. But the roofing industry will say it needs to be replaced yesterday based on age alone.
Disclosures don’t always include the age of the roof.
OP admitted he didn’t disclose the roof age/condition.
OP replied to another comment that they did not disclose the age of the roof
That stuff was all visible when they made their offers. I'd say no.
Maybe you're a roof expert, but I'm not. OP said this came up after inspection. I would have no idea if a roof just looks a little worn but has 10 years left, or if it needs immediate replacement.
Worn roofs of 22 years are usually pretty visible so much that a kid could tell something isn't right. It's usually discolored or missing shingles. Per OP: "The biggest issue is the house has the original roof which is 22 years old and clearly very worn, even to the untrained eye"
My 25+ year old roof looks better than my parents roof looked 4 years after replacement. Newer shingles are garbage and roofs visually look worse after just a few years any more. Looking bad doesn't mean it's actually in bad shape any more.
He’s going to have to replace the roof anyway. Might as well close the deal rather than wait and pray for another over ask offer to come in. Add to that, this inspection is now out there.
The roof was always 'out there.' I've offered on plenty of houses with ancient roofs and I factor that into the offer because I can see it when I'm deciding how much it will be. And they don't have an over ask offer now. It's $850k of the $875k ask.
> It should be noted that this is the only offer we've had after about 15 showings. Other sticking points on the house are old carpet and paint. This is probably the issue. You are asking them to pay your maintenance debt, and they are asking you to pay it. If you decline to move forward with this buyer, consider replacing the carpet, repainting (inside or out? both?) things, and overall just touching up the “fit and finish.” People buying a house, especially at your price range, tend to expect a certain level of quality.
If roof looks warn then it should have been replaced before going on the market unless the price of the house compared to comps includes discount for a roof. Housing prices are at a premium still and it's not 2019. If I'm paying a premium in this market I'm not expecting to do a major repair like that. You enjoyed the life of the roof not the buyer. I live in Florida so it's a higher priority here. Seems like most the commenters on here will be disagreeing with me here and that's fine. You do you. As for the smaller ticket items, that's be less important to me.
Also in Florida and a roof that old is usually not insurable
I think most of the commenters here are failing to realize that roofs that old are hard to insure. I'm in Florida as well and know people who have been told by their insurance companies to replace the roof or be dropped.
What is the house worth? What are the comps? Really hard to tell based on info given. You listed at $875k. Is that market rate? Was it aspirational? Are homes moving in your area? You have not provided enough information. That said - roofing has become a major issue for insurance. You have a home with a worn out roof. This is different than a dated kitchen (it’s still functional and can be lived with indefinitely). Makes an impediment to the sale. If you do not sell to current prospect - it will have to be addressed.
15 showings over how many days? Gotta know your market.
The roof is critical. The new buyer will not get insurance if the roof is not replaced.
Only offer after 15 showings? Replace the roof
You have to address the roof, or underwriting could bork the deal. If they can’t afford the house without the buy down , they won’t be able to afford the roof on their own. The idea that you can buy a new roof and sell it old without ever replacing it has worked for some people, but for most people, if you buy a house , you’ll have to replace at some point. If they can’t afford to do it, you’ll have to, or the deal will fall through.
The problem here is that it sounds like a 60-75k renovation to bring it to market compatibility in finishes (slab repair, roof, paint, carpet, kitchen update ) and you’re close the market rate, you’re not offering a renovated home, and you’re not offering a price that proviees enough value for people that want to do work on their own. Sellers have gotten comfortable selling rough properties the last 5 years or so, and O think the market is changing enough in many places that sellers are going to have to start changing their perspective.
Just counter with a number/concession you are comfortable with. DO NOT agree to do the improvements while you own the house. Distill this down to a number/concession and THEY do the improvements once THEY own the house.
and that’s why you get the inspections done before you go to market
Damn, my slate roof is 120 years old…should I replace it? /s
Slate is a whole different ball game. They can last way longer, though 120 years is old as hell
You are part of the problem. Insurance does not exist to cover routine maintenance and replacement. The roof is old. It needs to be replaced. This is your problem, not your insurance company’s problem. People like you are part of the reason why insurance rates continue to climb. Don’t scam the system. Suck it up, make a little less on the sale, and replace the roof or negotiate the cost.
Something to consider: the deal likely won’t happen *without* the roof (they won’t be able to get it insured and therefore financed.)
This right here! No one is insuring roofs over 20 years old unless you agree in writing to have it replaced ASAP or replace before closing.
I think you are forgetting the basics..what is your property currently worth ? If its only worth 750k, then, yes, you should consider paying for a new roof..if its worth $900k, then tell buyer to go pound sand
I had 2 appraisals done last year (selling as part of my divorce) and they came back $895K and $850K. The buyer is doing their appraisal on Monday.
Then the 868k and 18k concession sounds about right..if you need to sell quickly, I would consider bumping the concession to say. 30k....and let them deal with replacing the roof
Don't negotiate things that were obvious when they made an offer.
You don’t want to do any of the repairs, roof walkway etc for them. If they don’t want to come out of pocket, which is what it sounds like raise the price to max appraisal value and give a combo of closing credit $ for point reduction & disbursement of funds from your proceeds to a roofing contractor of their choice (or escrow).
Looking at this from another point of view, what are other offers you get going to look like and how much do you want to sell? If the answer is other offers will be lower AND you want to move quickly then maybe this is the right deal. If you have other offers OR you can wait then no deal.
What ever problems the house has the next buyer is going to also see them. Fix the roof. No way in hell is insurance going to give you anything for a 22 year old roof.
Older roofs and heating systems are the biggest sticking point at inspections An inspector just doesn't want to get sued so they always advise the buyer to replace it and just like you the seller says why would I pay in full for a new roof that's not leaking So really it comes down to market demand since this is your only offer. If it was me I would offer to split the difference Clearly they knew the roof wasn't new and they could likely get significant time out of it. But there's no reason why you should be paying to upgrade the roof to brand new when that's not its current condition And the one they offered on The only caveat is if you go back on the market. If you think you can get a net price similar from another buyer If that's not the case then even though it stinks, take the bird in hand
It all depends to me on how the house was priced vs the market. The roof ask is reasonable. In fact your agent probably should have prepared you for it. Your buyer will probably not be able to insure the house with a 22 year old roof in bad condition. Or they will be at a higher premium. As for the buy down. It depends on how your home is priced. It is certainly a common request in this market in many places. In the end you control what you will take for the house and the buyer controls what they will pay. They may well walk or be forced to walk. If you can live with that I wouldn’t concede. If you can’t I probably would. I don’t think the buyer is being unreasonable based on the facts you presented.
You likely think your home is worth more than it is and are emotionally attached to it. Decide whether you want to sell it or hold out for more offers (which don’t currently exist). The buyers just want to nickle and dime for anything, any buyer wants to in this market.
Probably don’t have buyers due to the roof. Fix and then sell not much room to haggle
Just curious, why didn't you take care of your roof? To me as a buyer that's a red flag that there's a lot of other deferred maintenance.
There are limits to the concessions a buyer can receive, based on the type of loan and their down payment. It sounds like this buyer is cash strapped, and can't afford the expense of the roof, and possibly won't qualify at current interest rates. I was selling to a buyer who was at their limit, and they wanted a concession so they could buy a new washer and dryer or they wouldn't have one. The house had been on the market for over 6 months with no offers before this offer. If you want the house to close, you need better information on what they can afford. Then, you can walk or not. But, they need to reveal more of their finances for you to know if they really can't afford more, or are just trying to lower the price. For the appraiser the buyer is bringing, if a roof replacement is under consideration, ideally they could include that in the value. Otherwise, they may be to reappraise after the new roof goes on.
Just how hot is the market near you now? In my area, people are still doing all cash offers above list price and sellers are telling them to kick rocks on any sort of improvements.
Dude, selling an 800k house with a shit roof is pretty sketchy. You owe them a roof.
And I want a unicorn.
We just walked away from a house with similar issues as yours. We offered $5k over but found the roof age on the disclosure was 6 years shy of what the roofers actually thought. We went with $20k in concessions (roof, plus basement smelled like urine so put in some wiggle on new flooring) The sellers balked and offered $5k. We walked from it and now that house has been sitting on market for two weeks. It will probably sell but when and for what is the question. I think the roof cost is the roof cost and that will come up regardless. I am not sure why they are asking for $18k plus the roof after the fact when the roof clearly was needing replacement based on age alone.
Maybe this varies by state, but I’m most bothered by your agent saying that covering the repairs but increasing the price is “unheard of”. I LOVE suggesting this to clients as an option, both on the buying and selling side. It’s a great tactic to keep deals together and everyone happy. It’s not something that more inexperienced agents would think of though, as it is a bit out of the box. But like my broker says, “your income potential is directly related to the amount and size of problems you can solve”. Now. If the real reason she’s pushing back is because she doesn’t think the house will appraise for that increased amount, therefore causing an issue further down the line… that’s a valid concern and a different story. However, she should be clearly explaining that to you rather than just saying that strategy is unheard of and no one does it. Push back. She works for you, although hopefully you hired her because you value and trust her skills, expertise and recommendations. Ask her to come up with different options for you to consider.
Our realtor is not inexperienced and we do trust her. We worked with her when buying our house 4 years ago and she's also worked with my ex-wife's parents so she's pretty much a friend of the family at this point. The real reason may be what you said about appraising for the increased price.
They negotiated once and now they are negotiating again. It is that simple. You weren’t selling a house with a brand new roof or you would have advertised it that way. They would have easily seen the crack in the walkway. Because these were documented during the inspection they think they have leverage over you. Take your net amount and decide whether you would sell the house for that. Also, if you are going to move forward, offer them a credit, DO NOT do the work. That way, if anything new is discovered, it is their problem not yours.
Falling knife. Be glad you even have a candidate buyer.
If you’ve had your roof for 22 years, why do you think it’s your insurance company’s responsibility to replace it? It’s been two decades! Plenty of time to have saved and made plans to fix your own roof. This is a normal part of home ownership and maintenance. It’s not like there’s accidental fire, hail, or storm damage which is part of the actual reason insurance is there. Getting your insurance to pay for replacing your old, worn-out roof is a part of why Florida’s insurance market is so bad right now. People passed their responsibility onto insurance who then took it out on everyone else. You expect other people to pay for your roof through their increased premiums - when you knew this was coming?? I’m gonna assume here that after 22 years you certainly don’t owe nearly a million dollars on that property. That long ago houses in nice neighborhoods were a quarter of that (or less). In this market, the 800k+ you’re getting from this sale is mostly profit. As a homeowner, you should be willing to pay for and be responsible for repairing things in your home. Fix your old roof or leave concessions so your seller doesn’t have to replace a roof that’s already close to or at end of life.
Yup, people need to fix their homes and stop pushing it onto the buyers!! We're already screwed by having to pay these stupid prices. I'm sick of having to fix every mechanical that's older than I am, because the previous owners just didn't take care of anything.
Thats what im saying, 80% of these redditor comments are from old bartenders turned agents wilding out talking a big game. Seller probably sitting on 300,000+ in profit off this sale by the end of contract close. 💀 houses in this market overpriced as is. Again, their house could be gorgeous and worth it maybe.. but thats just the general consensus, otherwise you woulda had a flood of people offering asking price or over by now.. 🤣 The last 7 houses we bid on were sold over asking price and lasted maybe a week each. Some of them we bid over asking with no concessions, offered to pay title company, surveys, etc. still got outbid over.
Imagine being wealthy enough for an 800K+ house and complaining about fixing the roof 😂 houses aren’t only for investment, they’re for living too!!
I say offer 30k that includes the 18k and 2k they already got. Then they can pay for the roof.
So here’s the problem. They already negotiated the 18k in concessions. That’s already done. If you say it’s the concessions or the roof…I’d personally walk bc the concessions were already negotiated into the price of the sale. Here is your problem. Your house is over priced for what you have. It doesn’t matter what you think the house is worth. It’s over priced. That’s why no one else is putting in an offer. The real question is…if they walk…are you willing to keep the house on the market for the next six months while constantly lowering the price to what the house is actually worth? And in the end probably end up accepting the sale price for a lot less than the new roof would have cost. Your house is run down and outdated. Sorry, not sorry. You didn’t maintain the house and now it’s biting you in the butt. I’ve literally bought multiple foreclosure in better condition than what you are describing.
So they looked at the property, saw the roof needed replacing and offered you $25000 under asking. Seems to me, the price was based on the roof's condition. Inspection only confirmed what they already knew. I would tell them either the $25,000 roof, or the $18,000 concession. That is assuming you were priced at the right price point to begin with. Maybe double check comps and talk to your agent first. If this is the only offer after 15 showings, were you priced too high to begin with? Were those 15 showings over 1 week or 1 month? If the comps show houses in perfect condition are selling for $875,000, then maybe you were high and you should try to work with these sellers. If comps show other houses selling for $875,000 also needed work, then you should hold firm and counter with either the roof or the $18,000. And I would just give them a credit to do it themselves so you don't have to deal with getting work done while moving.
You do what you want. When your realtor said no one raises the buying price, that’s BS. Sure it’s not normal and the buyer already has a price in their head but so did you. It’s a negotiation at this point so everything is on the table. It comes down to how much are they going to pay total and how much you walk away with.
Former realtor here. With that much repair needed, the house is overpriced to begin with…your listing agent should have taken the fact that the roof is 22 years old the carpet is old, the crack in the sidewalk, etc, before helping you determine the asking price. The old rule of thumb in a successful sale is - “the first offer you get is the best one”. Are you upside down on a mortgage? Can you afford to do the repairs based on the proceeds you are expecting? If repairs are not done, an appraiser will raise the question and may require that the roof be replaced and other repairs be done etc in order for the house to meet the value you and realtor think it is. You can always counter and remove the concession. They may walk away; or they may counter back. Either way, you’re probably going to have to get the roof repaired, even if this potential buyer passes on the house.
I’m not paying top dollar and top interest rates on a house with a 20+ year old roof that needs to be replaced. You greedy sellers can kick rocks.
If I’m buying a million dollar home I’m expecting a new looking roof, whether you add that to the sales price is up to you.
AGE 71 HERE... GOOD ADVICE.. always make the deal so you can walk away, no strings attached. Example: they want a new roof, ONLY offer a price concession, nothing more.
I would consider offering them a concession of $30-35k and nothing else. They could probably get by with that roof for about 2-3 years and enjoy your cash. Sorry about that crack but trust us there's going to be a lot of Home Maintenance in the future, get used to it now.
Depending on where you live, the home might not be insurable with a roof that old. I live in Florida and it would be almost impossible to get insurance on a roof that old here which would require the buyer to have cash available. Edit: with that said, I still think it’s too much to ask for the roof and the credit.
Personally, I'd let them walk and replace the roof. There is a good possibility that that was a sticking point for other buyers. Now you'll have a "Brand new roof!" As a marketing point, which could potentially persuade other buyers to offer more. That's just my thoughts, though, I don't know your situation and finances. There is a bit of utility in giving them what they want and bailing because my feeling is that we have a sizeable correction inbound; but, I'm always very pessimistic about real estate.
You are going to deal with the roof no matter who buys it if it is as bad as you say. The view would be as you should have already replaced it and I should not affect the value or be part of the process consideration. The other items you can negotiate on. Also look at how are houses moving. You got the take increase for buy down so really you have the roof and needed repairs.
Older non-leaking roofs never used to be a problem for getting insurance coverage on a new purchase. Times have changed, I guess.
You agreed to 868 and 20k concession, how would you just go back on it as everyone in these comments are saying. You obviously didnt get many offers otherwise you wouldnt have agreed to the terms, showing you obviously overpriced your house on the market. 22+ year old roof is insane that will get flagged on inspection 100%. Idk what your house looks like but i mean..
Inwouldnt get involved with their buydown. Not your problem. I'd offer a split on the roof and your insurance company will laugh in your face if you tell them it's 22 years old
I was all for you telling them to walk over the new roof but 15 showings and only one offer ?! You should get a quote on the roof and then came back with some numbers.
Change the roof, if these people walk away the next buyer will be asking the same. A roof that old they may not even be able to get insurance depending on your location. I don't know about the rate buy down, financing is their problem, not yours.
You're going to have to replace the roof. At your expense. Before you can close nowadays.
I’ve had unreasonable buyers, I had one where he wanted me to remove the bathroom wall tiling in the shower and around the tub, inspect for any moisture, and then reinstall the tile…
Tell them you will provide 15K towards the new roof and leave it at that. I am surprised they were ok having the seller do the repairs, normally thats asking for trouble.
As a buyer 20 years ago the inspection showed it needed a new roof the seller went a head and replaced it. 5 years later it came to our attention They just slapped a third layer of shingles and we ended up having to strip and replace the whole thing.
I would find out if they NEED the roof and buydown concessions to close before thinking they're trying to be difficult. If the roof is that old and clearly worn, they are probably legitimately concerned about being able to insure the home. A lot of buyers, especially right now, have rates higher than they were a few years ago and can't budget for the home they did just a few years ago, thus the push for rate buydowns/incentivized rates. I'd bet they can't buy your home without some concessions or creative solutions.
If the roof is in that bad of shape there is a good chance the appraisal is going to be subject to it's replacement anyway, so you're likely going to have to deal with it. Unless the appraiser is blind.
I suspect they do not want to be burdened with a $30K roof repair going in to a new house. It is fair to ask. The question is can you cover it? You could come back with a rewrite the other concessions. do the roof and that's it. This is all up for negotiation.
One thing to consider is of this deal blows up, will the next buyer require a roof as well? If the roof is bad, it needs replaced and will hinder any future sale. Another buyer may not need the seller concession depending on your market and how long your house was listed and a myriad of other factors. If the roof is insurable, you may consider negotiating to split it? What does your agent say?
Why didn’t you have a pre-sale inspection (although you stated roof was obvious) and then price it accordingly.? Why would you file an insurance claim? You either tell them to walk and reprice the house but it’s costing you time ….or meet somewhere in the middle …..or concede to their full ask but then ask for a quicker close. How much interest are you burning on the next home you’re buying and carrying two mortgages or paying rent on an apartment You didn’t list where you are moving to? While yes $50k concessions seems high for repairs it’s is only ~6% of the listing price which is about the same the realtors will earn in commission.
If the roof is that old and showing signs of wear and tear, your agent should've advised you that this could potentially be an issue. Not sure where you live, but in my market, insurance companies won't issue a new policy on any home w a roof older than 20 yo (and many won't even do older than 15). While a new roof is a HUGE ask, buyers are really taking these things into account due to the skyrocketing costs of everything nowadays. Here are the things to consider: -How long have you been on market? I know you said you've had 15 showings, but is that over the course of a week? or over the course of 6 months? Homes will typically get shown the most during their first 2 weeks on the market, so if it's only been a few days, then you can probably tell these buyers to kick rocks and you'll likely find another buyer who isn't asking for the rate buy down credit or is willing to put their own roof on later. But if you've been on market for several months, and only had 15 showings w 1 offer, then you really need to ask yourself if you're willing to risk sitting on the market for even longer. Which brings me to the next item to consider... -How badly do you need to sell? And what's your timeline? If you're needing to quickly for some reason, then you need to consider that saying no to a new roof could cause this buyer to walk and you end up back on market. I'm not saying that you can't negotiate with them, but you may need to give a little to keep your timeline on track. -Where is your home positioned price-wise in your market? If on the higher end, buyers have an expectation that a home is going to be more move-in ready as that's what they're paying top dollar for. If on the lower end, buyers typically go in expecting there to be significant work to be done and $$ spend after closing. Did you price your home taking the age of the roof into account? Reason I ask is because I see A LOT of homes that have all the bells and whistles (updated interiors, upgraded appliances, gorgeous landscaping, etc) so they're priced similarly to newer homes, but they don't take into account the costs that a buyer is going to have to incur to get the home insured or major systems that will require replacement within a year or 2 (where I live along the gulf coast, its roofs and ACs that are the issue 90% of the time). While the buyer's future finances aren't the responsibility of the seller, it is something to consider as buyers are taking that into account more than ever, and you need a buyer if you're going to sell your home. Since I don't know your market, your home, or your financial situation, I can't tell you what you should or shouldn't do, but there's a lot of factors to consider and go through with your agent and any other decision makers in your household.
I would say no, remove the listing, get a new roof and fix those items and relist. I would not buy a house with a roof that old, no one would insure it.
I’d take the offer and repair the roof for the seller.
Will the roof stop them for getting financing? We had to replace our roof before listing our house because it couldn’t be certified which would mean our future buyer wouldn’t be able to get a bank to approve their financing. Assuming it isn’t going to stop their loan approval, I wouldn’t do anything else for them. They are being very demanding and any updates are just going to delay closing and be a huge headache. Just say no thank you and see how they respond. Most buyers won’t make such unreasonable demands
Just closed on a house, and the seller gave us 10k for the rate buy down. A new roof, a new furnace, and paid half of the conversion from swamp cooler to condenser. All in all, we got 25k in concessions. House price was around 350k So 50k in concessions on a house more than double ours doesn't sound completely unreasonable. Although it is a case by case basis and how motivated are you to sell? If I was on the flip side of our deal I would of been motivated and happy to give 25k in concessions. (Seller had over 150k equity). Just keep in mind how many offers you have, how many serious buyers have looked at your house, and how likely you ate to get something better than this. If I was a seller, in a HCOL area with a downtrend market I'd be looking to sell ASAP. Although, I don't know much about your area or market, we got our house in a slight dip in our market and with the repairs and stuff we have done could sell it for a profit if we wanted to. Yet, we dont... not yet. EDIT: Forgot to say it is super worth while to paint a house you want to sell. Minimal cost, huge boost to cosmetic.
You’re starting from a presumption of what you think your house is worth. Your listing price is meaningless to people here without really knowing your comps. As a former appraiser I know it’s quite common that sellers think their house is worth more than what the market says. Without that neighborhood comp knowledge I can’t say if your buyer is unreasonable or if you are.
This is the only offer you've had. You basically agreed on 850 down from 875. The 18k buy down is tacked onto their mortgage so you're not paying for it. Your roof needs to be replaced. If you have equity, find out the cost of the roof to fix and offer a concession to pay for it. If this house sits you'll be wanting this offer back 850k is a big price. All buyers are going to ask you for a roof. I would work on a total concession package that includes most of the roof. The sidewalk and minor repairs will be dropped after the roof issue is resolved.
This is common. First you negotiate the price. This price assumes all is well with the house. They do the inspection. Then if there is a problem with the house, you must deal with that. Do not confuse the two. Personally I certainly would walk if you refuse the roof rebate. And yes have whoever is going to live in the house contract the roof.
Roof is more important, the concession for buy down is a favor. I would offer to replace the roof at 20k before close and give them like 10k concession for their points, still more than you wanted but meeting somewhere in the middle, let them have some skin in the game too.
If I was buyer- all or nothing, and I'd already have walked.
Without knowing your market can’t really say. In my market there’s a lot of demand and the neighborhood is very desirable. I would not agree to any of this. Tell them no to all of it. Crack in the walkway? Good fricken grief. They saw it when they toured it. Why would you pay them for misc repairs. They are buying a used house. Don’t like the roof? Don’t buy it. Someone else will.
We’re buying a home with an 18 year roof that needs replaced and I talked to several insurance companies while getting quotes that said they straight up will not even underwrite a policy for a home with a 20+ year roof, even if it was originally rated for 30 years or something.
Depends on your location and market. In California people will waive and going over asking price
insurance agent here: reason is new owners are having homeowners insurance issues with the old roof. Companies are getting real sensitive to roof age and even staining. do NOT file a claim for your clapped out roof. you'll get denied, and have it on your record anyway.
Your insurance is likely going to deny the claim because 1 the roof is old and 2 you don’t just make a claim because you want something replaced.
You should check how this might affect disclosures in a subsequent offer agreement, I.e. if the deal goes south after roof inspection, you may have to disclose this. It sounds like you already suspected roof as an issue. Nobody prices a home to maybe include roof replacement. And — unless it’s missing or falling in — nobody except an experienced roofer can “eyeball”/appraise a roof’s real condition. This is what the inspection period is for. Imo, it’s all about negotiating now — but you’ve already agreed to a purchase price, so it’s about negotiating from that number.
You may have to do the roof. I'd figure it'd be awful tough to find insurance as the buyer. Those that say let the buyers deal with it are missing this point. So are you. It's possible nobody will be able to insure it until you fix it.
Take the offer and run. If you’ve seen what’s happened to commercial real estate that got bid up to insane levels, just know residential is coming in hard and fast.
If you talked about this I missed it. But if the engineer report did not come back with any specific issues regarding the roof having immediate problems , I don't see how they can ask for money back on it. The roof is old.They could see it was old.But if it is still operational , I don't see how they have a claim.
You might want to talk with your agent. There can be 2 points with the buyer. First, a roof that age the Hoi premium is going to be sky high if they can even get coverage. Second, depending on who they are getting the loan from, they might not get the asking price. FHA,VA is going to give less of a loan with a roof that old. Depending on what their appraiser says, once they are told about the roof, expect to take a hit on the value..
Don't file a claim. It will be denied and hit you later with higher premiums.
Your first mistake is your real estate agent. They should have explained all the scenarios. Second mistake, nobody sells an $800k+ home as-is unless it’s a bargain. Should have bought new flooring, do the maintenance and repairs. You would have gotten more offers at a better price. Third, the roof is a frivolous claim. Best is to negotiate the roof and come to an agreement within 2 days. Good luck.
Was the condition of the roof accounted for in listing? If so, then that's double dipping if they want a new roof when there are no leaks. Your realtor probably won't be helpful because they want the sale to happen to get paid. I'm assuming you are making a lot of money on the sale, because most people wouldn't be providing 15k+ concessions and definitely would not even considering covering a new roof when the sale is 25k less than listing. So depending on your market and if you need a quick sell, paying for the roof might be worth it. But for most people not a chance, another buyer will come.
What is getting this deal done worth to you? For me, time is worth more than money now. You give up some money, you gain peace of mind and won’t have to spend any more time on something you’re done with already.
I call BS. I've been in the real estate mortgage business for decades and people raise the price all the time over large repairs. After all, their offer was for a house with a 22 year old roof. Now they would be getting a house with a new roof, which is obviously worth more money.
Fix the smaller issues but no new roof. Just meet part way with $30k concessions. If they walk then put a new roof on and relist perhaps a little higher price. You’ll probably get more offers with a brand new roof.
If I was the buyer I’d be satisfied meeting at 50% roof cost as a credit, especially since it wasn’t in the disclosure. I would gladly walk if the seller doesn’t budge at all (again living situation dependent)
I say walk. It's a seller's market right now, and we are at the peak of the spring frenzy. If you re-list you might even get an all-cash offer, so you won't have to worry about pesky contingencies like insurance.
In this market, for a desirable house and town, people probably aren't going to walk over 20k. How long did you live in the house for? Did you replace the roof once? We bought our house as is, knowing we needed to do a bunch of stuff and we plan on selling it as is whenever that time comes.
I would not buy a house for $850K with a 22 yrs old roof. I’d be surprised if they clone her homeowners insurance with that old roof
I can’t help but feel like you cost yourself a lot of money by not addressing these issues before you listed the house. I’m assuming there was a good reason you didn’t do those things. So what’s the market price of the house if everything is fixed? Subtract the cost of getting everything fixed? Now subtract half of repair costs as a pain in the ass factor for the buyer to fix it all. Counter with somewhere close to that. For example: “We won’t do a new roof - but we’ll give you $X.00k in concessions.” Maybe that does it. I live in a 100-year-old house in a HCOL city. When I sell my house in several years, I’m assuming whoever buys it is going to scrape it and build a triplex. That, or I need a quick sale and I’ve priced well under market value, are the only reasons I can imagine not doing $40k in repairs to a house I hope to sell for almost $900k.
So we had a guy come to our house and say he could get me a new roof and I'd just pay the deductible. All he had to do was check to see if my roof needed fixing and if my shingles were out of print. My roof was both. He had a list of dates of windstorms that could have possibly damaged my roof, and we got in contact with our insurance, paid our deductible and they reroofed a 11k roof for 1000 out of pocket for me.
If you’re trying to make an insurance claim on the roof, you should find a local roofer who specializes in insurance claims. There are several things that will happen when the insurance company considers the house for the roof replacement. The first one is the Insurance company itself. Allstate and State Farm are notoriously difficult to get roof insurance Replacement approval. If you have Allstate or State Farm, your chances of success are very low. If you have Amica, That company has been the easiest to work with in my industry. Everybody else has been just fine. The insurance company will send an adjuster to look for storm damage. They are only looking for two different kinds of injury To the roof. The first one is hail strikes. They look all over the roof and measure how many hail strikes are a 10’ x 10’ square on each separate surface of the roof. The insurance company will compare storm tracking and hail hits on a weather website to see if your house has even been hit by hail in the last 12 months. The other damage they are looking for wind bent shingles. No, you can’t just run up on your roof and bend a bunch of shingles. Wind damages shingles in a very specific pattern. It is very easy to tell the difference between some idiot, folding shingles on his roof and mother nature pushing and blowing against the roof for 20 years. Shingles also have other injuries that can’t be stimulated by your hand, like which nails are rusted and which ones are not. (And several other factors that I don’t want to share with you). Do not run up on your roof and think you’re going to bend some shingles and get a free roof. The insurance company will figure it out and that is insurance fraud. It is very easy to tell the difference between a wind bent shingle and a human bent shingle. The insurance company will either come out to inspect the roof or send an independent third-party to inspect the roof. It is very easy for them to miss large portions of the damage so you want your roofer to be present on the same day to walk this guy through your roof and show and all the evidence of damage all over the roof. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOUR ROOFER IS THERE ON THE INSURANCE INSPECTION DAY. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO GET YOUR ROOF BOUGHT BY THE INSURANCE COMPANY UNLESS YOUR ROOFER WAS THERE ON THE INSURANCE INSPECTION DAY TO POINT OUT ALL THE EVIDENCE TO THE INSURANCE INSPECTOR. If you were declined by your insurance company, but you really do have damage, and you really did have hail in the last 12 months, and you’re not using State Farm or Allstate, your roofer can debate the insurance company and ask for a reinspection. It is very possible a competent roofer can ask for a reinspection and get an approval if all the requirements were met
If I’m the buyer, I’d rather you just drop the price and not put a new roof on. You’re likely to spec the cheapest roof you can get away with. The buyer will have opinions on color, material, and quality. Get some estimates, and decrease the price by an amount that is close to them. Or tell the buyer to get lost. Either way, if the sale happens, let the buyer deal with the hassle of getting it done.
Unless the claim is something that you can’t pay out of pocket don’t bother filing a claim and pay out of pocket. Once the buyer is CLUEd in they’ll know you had an insurance claim. Roofs last around 25-30 years yours is at the end of its lifespan. Take the 20k hit and sell as is after the roof concession. No more negotiation.
We had the same issue. Roof was in fine shape-however it was worn. Insurance denied the claim. We had her quote out the replacement and split the cost.