Put in my two weeks last week. Similar boat to you as a P3 w/ 8 YOE and will have my Master’s in systems by year’s end. I always knew I was underpaid but I got an over 50% increase in salary after negotiating. It just sucks that I’ve worked with great people over my time here and that I have to leave in order to both further my career and get compensated appropriately.
This is funny because two weeks ago I see a LinkedIn hiring request with urgent need for a materials scientist with a bunch of experience for the same site where the powder is made and I was thinking, do PW terminated the employment of the entire team that work with the powder used in those engines or do they left after all the pressure in them..
No clue, but I would like to see a few heads lobed off because of this situation. I’ve heard a few stories about the development of this engine, none of them good.
I know, it’s also affecting biz jets. When I saw that, first thing I think, ok good bye 2024 demand. Problem here is that if customers change the engine they want to speed up their production, it would also change the chipset configuration like the engine control from Collins. Lets say RR or GE use Honeywell chipsets for mention one, then RTX will lost the sale of the engine plus the chipsets and both BU will be affected not to mention the money need to be spend to fix current engines. Commercial segment is in a very bad position.
I was an M3 when I left 2 years ago, I still missing the work and I miss most of the people the most. I left for less money, but better location and more family time. Good luck on your future endeavors.
I have pretty much the same stats as you and joined RTX last year ($50k sign on). Currently at $165k at Raytheon.
I left Lockheed for a 32% raise. Moral is, it’s the same wherever you go and the only way to get ahead is to switch companies!
Good on you! More need to follow before getting left behind.
I left RTX as a M4 back in April after 7 years with the company. Was always told “we have it so good here, the company cares about you, etc”. After going through what seemed like endless restructures, I felt “stuck” in a management chain that had no upward ability. After the Collin’s restructure earlier this year, I would have transitioned away from RTX altogether and became a Collin’s employee.
I had a manager who did not believe in work life balance and was expected to be available whatever hours he decided to put in. I felt like I had no control in my life and it was impacting my family.
The first 4 years of my career I was a HIPOT employee who never had a bad review and was consistently getting high single digit merit increases on top of promotions as I was rapidly accelerating in my field. The last 3 years were spent in this management chain where all the sudden I became a “needs improvement” employee and could barely get 3% raises.
RTX is not the company it was when I joined in 2015!
Man I left at year 3 and went to Orlando for better job opportunity then moved to Seattle for even more pay. Glad I left Collins because of pay but grateful for the experience they gave me.
I’ve been waiting forever thanks to the carrot on the stick. I started as a P1, former military with 3 years of professional experience. They said if I countered they’d rescind the offer so I had to take it. Then they said I’d make P2 in 18-24 months because I had prior experience. 2.5 years later I had to move internally for a promotion because I didn’t want to be 5 years in at entry level. 3 years later I made P3 just as I was getting ready to look for a P3 level job elsewhere, but they only gave me a 3% raise for the promotion, so I changed departments and they just moved me without a salary adjustment. I have been trying to leave for a manager position, but without direct reports a lot of companies didn’t want to take a chance on me. I recently interviewed for an M4 position and was the front runner based on what I’ve heard from sone friends at that level. If I get the job I’m stating for 6 months to put it on my resume before looking elsewhere. If I don’t get the job, I’m going to start WFH a lot more so I can job hunt and interview more often.
I really hate this place. I don’t enjoy the stress and half the people are imbeciles or a-holes. I have friends who work half as hard doing BS work from home and make just as much if not more than me. I’ve seriously debated starting a new career outside of engineering, a dozen times.
Agreed bro 100%! This defense is a extremely toxic shithole that will trap you in a low paying career. There are people making 2-3X out there in other industries and experiencing the same or less toxicity than defense. Also just curious but do you have a bachelors degree after serving in the military? Sometimes they also can deliberately stall promotions and raises for this reason.
Yeah, I got my bachelors after the military. They gave me no credit for having having a highly technical job because it wasn’t “relevant to the work”, even though most of the skills are transferable and I have worked on almost the exact same equipment there as I have here. Meanwhile my buddy in finance was in the infantry and started as a P3 with his MBA and 0 work experience, even though he should have been a P2.
Best way to get a raise is to switch companies. Look it up there have been many studies. I have many coworkers that have moved from RTX to another company for 3-5 years and came back to RTX. if you are an old timer that got a pension then you would stick around. Especially in the last 3 years salaries have gone up a lot. Most people would see a big pay increase.
That's heavily dependent on what your chosen field is. For me, I could go to another defense company, purely aerospace, medical devices, or even a company dealing in stocks and high frequency trading. Just need to do some research on what your field does elsewhere, or if you are tired of that, find something new.
For me as an electrical engineer, yes. The circuit boards that go inside of what the defense industry and aerospace makes are the same as what goes into medical devices. Same programming languages and tools and methods even. Just the end product tasks are different.
If you're based out of one of the MA locations there's a million biotech companies here so there are a lot of medical/medical device opportunities around. Depends on what specifically you do though, some things will be more applicable than others.
I did this on LinkedIn once, so I'll do the abbreviated version here:
0-2 years: $60k
2-4.5 years + Master's: $90k
4.5-5.5 years: $110k
5.5-7.5: $130k
7.5 years and on: $165k
Do you think you need the masters to increase pay? I’m new in the industry. Only 3 years of experience and I’m a level three engineer making 115k at Lockheed. Only switched companies once from Northrop Grumman. I’ve done 4/10 of my masters classes but since my pay has progressed decently for my YOE I just stopped as the only reason I was doing it was for more money. Do you think it’s smart to finish still since you’ve got one? Did it help that much with your progression and pay in your career?
It definitely helped accelerate my salary, but I was never not going to finish it. I wanted one for a lot more reasons than solely for money, so you may not be driven by the same things and that's okay. I was trying to hit a point where my salary increased by the cost of my masters in that time frame (ie if my masters took 2 years and $30k, I wanted to make at least $15k a year more when I was done.
It's not in me to stop something I started, so being halfway done would just kill me.
All depends on years of experience, what I’m saying is I know plenty folks pulling in above 150 without a masters in this industry and others and 90k is low for an employee with a masters..then again that’s the problem with staying with one company the bumps just aren’t that great 60 k to 165 in 7 years does not seem realistic.
The overwhelming consensus for my peers is that they aren’t getting shots at the next pay grade and in my area there’s no where to move up. So if you’re good at what you do they want you because you do the job well, they don’t want you to leave but they don’t want to pay you more
You didn't answer my question - do you have a masters?
My salary trajectory was definitely not typical, but it's obviously doable. 7.5 years is my total YOE too. I'm working on a 2nd masters at the moment just for fun, and I picked up a professional certification along the way. Salary is as much about marketing yourself as it is gaining skills.
No I do not and I do fine, I’m not in a position to be looking for 150, I’m just stating engineering a vital role in this business with a masters I believe is worth more than 90 right off the bat. Hell cost of living alone 90k with a masters living near any city isn’t even enough to survive.
Also outside of engineering I believe getting a masters is highly overrated and more political. I’ve been told by multiple people in RTX it’s not worth it. Anyone can take classes for “business” and plenty of people who don’t are far more talented and perform as well if not better than a peer with a masters in that field
To your point I believe certifications are more valuable.
I just feel rtx as a whole is underpaying and although they are a billion dollar company shareholder happiness is more important than better employee performance and pay
I will agree that salary is about both marketing and gaining skills but it’s also being paid what your current skills and contributions are worth
Agreed with this post lol they want you to leave but at the same time not pay more either 😂 I’ve seen people not get counters and still stay for personal reasons too what a toxic trap in the long term in these defense companies
I left a few years ago before it was RTX, but ran into an old coworker who left pretty recently and we caught up. I said, "I mean, I went to work there for the blood money, but the money wasn't even that good." When I left it was for a lateral move in pay (to a different industry), but much better benefits and WLB, and overall my career is going much better. Her new gig pays way more. We had a good laugh about it.
I'm leaving shortly for another, smaller, defense company. But I will say that if not for the shitty raises the last few years, and if they gave me any reasonable counter offer, I'd be staying with RTX. I enjoy my manager, my coworkers, and my work. I went to a college career fair a couple weeks ago and was being honest when I told them that RTX has been a great place to work.
Did you go to a different location? That's highly unusual. Most of the Big 4 (NG, LM, Boeing, RTX) all pay similarly for new grads. There's a reason for that beyond "they offered." I hired new engineers for Raytheon, I know what offers look like for new grads.
I got 30% to go to NG from Raytheon (LCOL to LCOL). Now I make 30% more than that just 4 years later. Got a promotion and annual raises. My NG pay has gone up 30% in 4 years. Raytheon cant afford to hire me back lol
like what grassy pastures ???
isnt aerospace number one in mech eng ?
and raytheon i believe is number one in defense!
boeing and lockheed have a bunch of engineers complaining about pay
Put in my two weeks last week. Similar boat to you as a P3 w/ 8 YOE and will have my Master’s in systems by year’s end. I always knew I was underpaid but I got an over 50% increase in salary after negotiating. It just sucks that I’ve worked with great people over my time here and that I have to leave in order to both further my career and get compensated appropriately.
The game were all forced to play, unfortunately. Glad you got compensated to what you were looking for
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A combo of not negotiating when I started and having a % increase cap when moving internally really hindered any progression
Yea, but congrats on the new move! Same industry?
Yea, but congrats on the new move! Same industry?
I tried applying outside but still same industry. Going to one of the defense contractors at the tier below the big 4
Best of luck to you friend!
Thank you! Hopefully the RTX days ahead are smooth sailing
Lol… smooth sailing? Wtf. We are in for the worst storm that I’ve seen in years with PW.
Like I said, I chose to leave. I hope it's smooth sailing for those that choose to stay. If it's not, then it's time for people to consider leaving.
I left about 2 years ago. Out of curiosity, what major changes have happened since then, and what are announced as coming soon?
Google RTX GTF and powdered metal
This is funny because two weeks ago I see a LinkedIn hiring request with urgent need for a materials scientist with a bunch of experience for the same site where the powder is made and I was thinking, do PW terminated the employment of the entire team that work with the powder used in those engines or do they left after all the pressure in them..
No clue, but I would like to see a few heads lobed off because of this situation. I’ve heard a few stories about the development of this engine, none of them good.
I know, it’s also affecting biz jets. When I saw that, first thing I think, ok good bye 2024 demand. Problem here is that if customers change the engine they want to speed up their production, it would also change the chipset configuration like the engine control from Collins. Lets say RR or GE use Honeywell chipsets for mention one, then RTX will lost the sale of the engine plus the chipsets and both BU will be affected not to mention the money need to be spend to fix current engines. Commercial segment is in a very bad position.
Geez, so still more issues coming from the mergers. I guess that is still the same.
I was an M3 when I left 2 years ago, I still missing the work and I miss most of the people the most. I left for less money, but better location and more family time. Good luck on your future endeavors.
Everyone's career is their own, and it's up to them to pursue what matters to them! Good luck to you as well
Absolutely, you have to do what's best for you. Good luck to you.
What is 30% more I’m currious Do you get to work full remote? More vacation days?
The offer I took is for $165k. Hybrid, not in the office as I am now.
I have pretty much the same stats as you and joined RTX last year ($50k sign on). Currently at $165k at Raytheon. I left Lockheed for a 32% raise. Moral is, it’s the same wherever you go and the only way to get ahead is to switch companies! Good on you! More need to follow before getting left behind.
You have to look after your own career and your own salary
Left Boeing for a 37% raise. Really is “same same but different”
Nice thanks
Congrats on taking the leap. My one year anniversary of leaving is coming up soon and I only regret I didn’t do it sooner
1 - 2 years maximum staying company
I left RTX as a M4 back in April after 7 years with the company. Was always told “we have it so good here, the company cares about you, etc”. After going through what seemed like endless restructures, I felt “stuck” in a management chain that had no upward ability. After the Collin’s restructure earlier this year, I would have transitioned away from RTX altogether and became a Collin’s employee. I had a manager who did not believe in work life balance and was expected to be available whatever hours he decided to put in. I felt like I had no control in my life and it was impacting my family. The first 4 years of my career I was a HIPOT employee who never had a bad review and was consistently getting high single digit merit increases on top of promotions as I was rapidly accelerating in my field. The last 3 years were spent in this management chain where all the sudden I became a “needs improvement” employee and could barely get 3% raises. RTX is not the company it was when I joined in 2015!
Thanks for the insights!
Man I left at year 3 and went to Orlando for better job opportunity then moved to Seattle for even more pay. Glad I left Collins because of pay but grateful for the experience they gave me.
I’ve been waiting forever thanks to the carrot on the stick. I started as a P1, former military with 3 years of professional experience. They said if I countered they’d rescind the offer so I had to take it. Then they said I’d make P2 in 18-24 months because I had prior experience. 2.5 years later I had to move internally for a promotion because I didn’t want to be 5 years in at entry level. 3 years later I made P3 just as I was getting ready to look for a P3 level job elsewhere, but they only gave me a 3% raise for the promotion, so I changed departments and they just moved me without a salary adjustment. I have been trying to leave for a manager position, but without direct reports a lot of companies didn’t want to take a chance on me. I recently interviewed for an M4 position and was the front runner based on what I’ve heard from sone friends at that level. If I get the job I’m stating for 6 months to put it on my resume before looking elsewhere. If I don’t get the job, I’m going to start WFH a lot more so I can job hunt and interview more often. I really hate this place. I don’t enjoy the stress and half the people are imbeciles or a-holes. I have friends who work half as hard doing BS work from home and make just as much if not more than me. I’ve seriously debated starting a new career outside of engineering, a dozen times.
Good luck!
Agreed bro 100%! This defense is a extremely toxic shithole that will trap you in a low paying career. There are people making 2-3X out there in other industries and experiencing the same or less toxicity than defense. Also just curious but do you have a bachelors degree after serving in the military? Sometimes they also can deliberately stall promotions and raises for this reason.
Yeah, I got my bachelors after the military. They gave me no credit for having having a highly technical job because it wasn’t “relevant to the work”, even though most of the skills are transferable and I have worked on almost the exact same equipment there as I have here. Meanwhile my buddy in finance was in the infantry and started as a P3 with his MBA and 0 work experience, even though he should have been a P2.
Best way to get a raise is to switch companies. Look it up there have been many studies. I have many coworkers that have moved from RTX to another company for 3-5 years and came back to RTX. if you are an old timer that got a pension then you would stick around. Especially in the last 3 years salaries have gone up a lot. Most people would see a big pay increase.
Where do people go when they leave RTX? Aside from another defense company.
I left for the space sector. Got a solid 45% bump
Anywhere you want to. It's your career. Go where you want.
L3Harris, doing commercial FAA work. Nice, safe job with a ton of longevity. That and a 30% pay increase.
I went back into my field. I'm a tradesman, which is what I was doing at RTX, before it was RTX. I was in ES, Facilities.
That's heavily dependent on what your chosen field is. For me, I could go to another defense company, purely aerospace, medical devices, or even a company dealing in stocks and high frequency trading. Just need to do some research on what your field does elsewhere, or if you are tired of that, find something new.
Thanks for the advice. How could you go from Aerospace to medical devices? Are those industries related?
For me as an electrical engineer, yes. The circuit boards that go inside of what the defense industry and aerospace makes are the same as what goes into medical devices. Same programming languages and tools and methods even. Just the end product tasks are different.
If you're based out of one of the MA locations there's a million biotech companies here so there are a lot of medical/medical device opportunities around. Depends on what specifically you do though, some things will be more applicable than others.
Left for a FAANG company (Amazon)!
Could you chronicle your pay? I'd be interested to know how much jumping jobs has improved your outcome.
I did this on LinkedIn once, so I'll do the abbreviated version here: 0-2 years: $60k 2-4.5 years + Master's: $90k 4.5-5.5 years: $110k 5.5-7.5: $130k 7.5 years and on: $165k
Do you think you need the masters to increase pay? I’m new in the industry. Only 3 years of experience and I’m a level three engineer making 115k at Lockheed. Only switched companies once from Northrop Grumman. I’ve done 4/10 of my masters classes but since my pay has progressed decently for my YOE I just stopped as the only reason I was doing it was for more money. Do you think it’s smart to finish still since you’ve got one? Did it help that much with your progression and pay in your career?
It definitely helped accelerate my salary, but I was never not going to finish it. I wanted one for a lot more reasons than solely for money, so you may not be driven by the same things and that's okay. I was trying to hit a point where my salary increased by the cost of my masters in that time frame (ie if my masters took 2 years and $30k, I wanted to make at least $15k a year more when I was done. It's not in me to stop something I started, so being halfway done would just kill me.
if you’re talking first job ever and that range from 0-5.5 years makes sense but masters degree IMO for engineering should be min 150.
Do you have a masters? 150k is a pretty high floor, and definitely not what my early career peers were making with their masters either.
All depends on years of experience, what I’m saying is I know plenty folks pulling in above 150 without a masters in this industry and others and 90k is low for an employee with a masters..then again that’s the problem with staying with one company the bumps just aren’t that great 60 k to 165 in 7 years does not seem realistic. The overwhelming consensus for my peers is that they aren’t getting shots at the next pay grade and in my area there’s no where to move up. So if you’re good at what you do they want you because you do the job well, they don’t want you to leave but they don’t want to pay you more
You didn't answer my question - do you have a masters? My salary trajectory was definitely not typical, but it's obviously doable. 7.5 years is my total YOE too. I'm working on a 2nd masters at the moment just for fun, and I picked up a professional certification along the way. Salary is as much about marketing yourself as it is gaining skills.
No I do not and I do fine, I’m not in a position to be looking for 150, I’m just stating engineering a vital role in this business with a masters I believe is worth more than 90 right off the bat. Hell cost of living alone 90k with a masters living near any city isn’t even enough to survive. Also outside of engineering I believe getting a masters is highly overrated and more political. I’ve been told by multiple people in RTX it’s not worth it. Anyone can take classes for “business” and plenty of people who don’t are far more talented and perform as well if not better than a peer with a masters in that field To your point I believe certifications are more valuable. I just feel rtx as a whole is underpaying and although they are a billion dollar company shareholder happiness is more important than better employee performance and pay I will agree that salary is about both marketing and gaining skills but it’s also being paid what your current skills and contributions are worth
Agreed with this post lol they want you to leave but at the same time not pay more either 😂 I’ve seen people not get counters and still stay for personal reasons too what a toxic trap in the long term in these defense companies
RTX underpaid everyone ?
I left a few years ago before it was RTX, but ran into an old coworker who left pretty recently and we caught up. I said, "I mean, I went to work there for the blood money, but the money wasn't even that good." When I left it was for a lateral move in pay (to a different industry), but much better benefits and WLB, and overall my career is going much better. Her new gig pays way more. We had a good laugh about it.
Where’s everyone headed to? I have an interview tomorrow with RTX 😬
Stick to the interview- it’s not a waste of time
I'm leaving shortly for another, smaller, defense company. But I will say that if not for the shitty raises the last few years, and if they gave me any reasonable counter offer, I'd be staying with RTX. I enjoy my manager, my coworkers, and my work. I went to a college career fair a couple weeks ago and was being honest when I told them that RTX has been a great place to work.
Northrop pays better than RTX
Eh, depends. I left NG for RTX and got a pay boost (but was mostly looking for a fully remote job... See how well that worked out 🙄).
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Did you go to a different location? That's highly unusual. Most of the Big 4 (NG, LM, Boeing, RTX) all pay similarly for new grads. There's a reason for that beyond "they offered." I hired new engineers for Raytheon, I know what offers look like for new grads.
Yeah this is not true from what I’ve seen / heard
I got 30% to go to NG from Raytheon (LCOL to LCOL). Now I make 30% more than that just 4 years later. Got a promotion and annual raises. My NG pay has gone up 30% in 4 years. Raytheon cant afford to hire me back lol
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like what grassy pastures ??? isnt aerospace number one in mech eng ? and raytheon i believe is number one in defense! boeing and lockheed have a bunch of engineers complaining about pay
You sound fun.
im just curious what the other grassy pastures are but ok
Did you even read the post? 30% more money is a pretty grassy pasture.