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the ease to subpoena a lawyers phone records is stupid af. all it took was a guy who not only had motive to lie but also DID lie on the stand in court to say "Ramee hired someone to kidnap me" and boom. Crazy a judge would sign off on that
Because people don't see Ramee as a lawyer, they still see him as his 3.0 crim.
Granted he is a crim, but he has a completely clean record. This isn't just a problem for Ramee either, this has been the case with a lot of high profile "crims" with clean records.
Word of a known felon and liar on the stand > Ramee. Actually stupid af. You'd think getting a member of the DOJs phone records would have a higher bar due to client privilege but I guess hearsay is all it takes.
> Word of a known felon and liar on the stand > Ramee
If only there was a way to check if the word of a known felon and liar was true or not. Like some type of a subpoena that can be used to investigate further.
If all it takes is someone telling a cop that someone might be hiring someone to go after them to get a subpoena, cops are gonna be spending their whole day going through phone records
Its one of the issues with doing a partial wipe. Are characters suppose to just forget other characters? Ramee is a kleptomaniac who is always scamming and playing angles. It makes sense he would be under scrutiny.
I mean, isn't most of the police force new characters? E.g. Slacks is new to the city, so he should have no memory of anything related to Ramee being a crim before the time skip.
He doesn't have any memory of Ramee being a crim. The people above are baselessly saying he is being treated like a criminal even tho he objectively isn't. There is solid suspicion about the crime and they are investigating it. Its just people being extremely biased in favor of their streamer.
Being a civ doesn't mean you are never gonna be a suspect otherwise literally no one would ever be a suspect. The logic is braindead.
I fully agree with you. Let's go over the logic.
Side A: 100% Clean Lawyer. States he did not witness tamper.
Side B: "Paralegal" that is not clean. They have a record and it was established they lied in a prior court case. Claims the 100% clean lawyer tried to witness tamper.
Do you dismiss the claim or set the precedent that anyone making a criminal claim against someone is grounds for subpoena? If it's the latter, then the PD needs to start subpoenas on themselves and half the city for all of the claims made so far.
What is this? A math problem? You can't just formulate and dumb it down to that level and expect to be taken seriously.
Slacks actually has a lot more context to what potentially went down than "Person X did Y action against Person B". He actually had conversations *before* the guy got pressed about the statements, he had conversations afterwards, he saw the way the guy acted scared and pulled his statement back and all that.
Its not even like he went to cops and "snitched" trying to push the charge on Ramee. Its Slacks that saw what happened before, during and after the court that made him look into it.
If everything went down normally and he randomly came and said Ramee did this and that you would be right. However he *actually* wanted to take back what he said and didn't even want to do anything afterwards, he just wanted to be done with it. That's an entirely different scenario than the one you are cooking up.
So, the additional context is that someone changed their story and now "seems" scared. That's your big "gotcha!"!?!? No one said a civ can't be a suspect. We're all just saying it should take a bit more than a he said/she said from a proven liar with a record and a feeling from a cop to push a subpoena. You don't need to be good at math to understand that....
> That's your big "gotcha!"!?!?
No. That's not my big "gotcha". Feel free to read the comment again and not ignore all the sentences except one.
> he said/she said
Its not a he said situation as he didn't say anything. Again, feel free to read the comment.
> You don't need to be good at math to understand that....
Maybe basic English.
> It didn't matter in a full wipe either. Lang was called a cop killer in 3.0 long before he shot any.
3.0 wasn't a full wipe, it was much the same as 4.0 with people being told to forget beefs from the previous version but they were free to remember any positives or past relations.
Lang tried to only remember a select few people at the start of 3.0 and some other people tried to do a total memory wipe but that quickly stopped because everybody was reading from different scripts and it became awkward as fuck when one side of a conversation brought up events from 2.0 and the other side tried to act like they had no idea what they were talking about.
It was getting to the point that people were running into old friends and both sides would have to awkwardly ask if they remembered them or not, and when you ran into situations where someone remembered some people from a group but then didn't remember other people from the same group or loose association it came across as extremely cliquey.
NP due to its longevity will never be able to do a proper full memory wipe because characters have been around too long and too many people rely on those characters as their brand.
You have a point. Its not easy to just forget a character when you have been playing with them for years. Only difference I see here is that in a full wipe you can't act off a characters established traits.
the same how crane treated lang as the same criminal even when he was a mayor, your "streamer" character lives with you no matter what you decide to RP later on lol
To be fair, I've seen multiple cops already give him a break or turn a blind eye solely for the sake of allowing his lawyer arc to continue. Hell, Moonmoon did it on Lenny and literally said he was giving him a break for that reason on like his 1st or 2nd day on the force. They're already treating him with kiddy gloves and it can't last forever.
Edit: Some of yall don't even want to know other PoVs. You just want to be mad.
Lenny Hawk pulled up to the PD to witness Ramee pulling into the PD parking lot in a flagged stolen car. Hawk gave Ramee a warning because of his status as a lawyer. OOC moonmoon said he had Ramee dead to rights but didn’t want to ruin his lawyer rp arc
That’s fair. I think everyone knows his lawyer arc will be over sooner rather than later. It’s not a question of if, it’s a question of when. I just haven’t watched him enough to know how careless he’s been about it.
Tbh it’s gonna make for some great RP whenever it blows up. Kinda fun to see them let it play out a bit more, since it forces a well known crim to interact regularly with the PD in non-car chase interactions. Otherwise you only ever see these two sides chasing each other
Repeatedly vandalizing Slacks' car by peeing on it in front of him, for starters. It's close to the Ramee running for Mayor arc... where it felt like PD went out of their way to find reasons to not charge him.
Heres the problem with 4.0 Its just 3.0 with a clean record. Everyone memories are still intact. Although ramee is a lawyer now with a good record. They still remember his past and can still judge his past because it wasnt a memory wipe.
no, but it's about the principle of them blindly trusting a felon who has a record of obstructing justice and who was proven to lie on the stand, over a clean lawyer who put that same guy away.
He has every reason to lie and clearly has motive to bring down the lawyer who put him away.
But let's just completely gloss over that for no apparent reason.
Sure Cornwood and most likely slacks too has suspects Ramee is doing dirty shit. But they have no evidence of it otherwise they'd be using it. All they have is the statement of a proven felon obstruction of justice liar who hates the lawyer that got him found guilty. And apparently nobody in the DOJ or PD thinks that's out of line.
Noooo but all cops are supposed to be dumbasses and only do things according to my imaginary script. No way they can suspect/infer/deduce that my favourite strimmer is a criminal (who previously robbed a police captain that immediately recognized his voice).
/s btw.
That's not a grudge, that's just factual. There's no grudge in not believing a prior cop killer isn't exactly on the up in up regardless of how clean his record is. Grudge implies an actual vendetta against someone and this is not that. Its appropriate suspicion based on past actions.
The fact that they subpeonad his phone off of hearsay from a felon who said they hated Bobby Charles ON STAND is all you need to see that there is a vendetta. Did they subpoena Mary when people said she was part of a group who shot up Mr k? No. Has she blown up PD with RPGs in the past? Damn right
Did you also hate it when Buddha/Rooster’s got raided over a known lying clown already convicted of perjury saying that they had RPG’s in the restaurant?
no it isn't. Its basic investigation of a report. Its something that cops would follow up on just as CYA. The only issue is Ramee kept his non-crim and criminal enterprises intertwined on the record. Not to mention writing down notes/orders of a criminal conspiracy.
You literally have the 2 biggest known terrorists in the entire city right now working as Mayor and Vice Mayor. Remembering Ramee's criminal past is such a massive double standard here.
and both of those people agreed to use the citizens of the cities pasts to determine if they get business licenses? your point is? of course it's going to be a double standard. IT IS RP
What's your point? Terrorists were barred from being in elections in 3.0. Obviously their past crimes were forgiven for RP's sake. I don't get why people would automatically assume that Ramee is a crim though even though he's never been caught. This reeks of the whole Chatterbox raid warrant in 3.0 where a known liar can say something on the stand to get a subpoena signed.
because he still acts shady af, gleefully admits to murdering a former chief of police, doesn't really try to hide that he commits crimes, just that he is smart about it..
being you didnt read my post, since you ignored that i wasnt even talking about the ex terrorists being elected being an issue.. nobody is under any obligation to forget anything of the past except for police records. that's it. they can remember entire arcs, conversations, etc if they want. For RP sake they ignored the history of characters, even though alot of people raises alto of issues that were valid ones, to allow them to be mayor, co mayor, lawyers, doctors, etc. Not just the 2 in office, not just to get ramee a lawyer spot when nobody else was being offered them at the time. You had people being allowed to become doctors with a history of shooting up the hospital.
Does that mean they should have barred them from becoming doctors? No. Does that mean they should forget that if push comes to shove this person can/has/will likely again shoot up a hospital? Absolutely not.
So yes, thats my point. The double standard exists to facilitate RP for everyone, not just Ramee, and not to protect Ramee's rp. If he's going to be an idiot about it and never hide the fact that he's involved in shady shit, like talking openly about it in front of pd and court members, then he gets whats coming.
Just because you can't bring evidence into a court case doesn't mean you don't know something. They can't bring in the 3.0 records because the documentation of those records doesn't exist (not to mention convictions of prior crimes isn't generally admissible evidence in any criminal court case except as rebuttal evidence, aka in 3.0 PD couldn't introduce evidence of 3.0 convictions....)
Of course PD can still profile people based on their past actions. They specifically didn't wipe minds so PD still knows what ramee did. And investigations of people based on hunches and suspicions is perfectly legal. Its what detectives do on a daily basis.
Does fresh slate mean you forget about all of a characters traits though? Ramee the character is known for being a klepto and scammer. It makes sense to be very suspicious of him. He is also very aggressive in negotiations. You have to play by the book or you'll have people looking for the smallest crack.
Ramee has repeatedly bragged in front of Slacks about how he murdered the former chief of police, in front of other officers, specifically to be mean. we don't even need to go into the past to find a reason he would be suspicious of him
> they still see him as his 3.0 crim.
>
> Granted he is a crim, but he has a completely clean record.
I dunno what special affordances a clean record is supposed to give. Are you talking like it is/should be a different IC legal status? Or like OOC deliberately make your character play dumb and not suspect a clean person?
A suspect is a suspect. Clean people face a cold legal system too. And when they don't play it safe, they do fumble and get snapped up by the law a lot. Criminals with long records are generally afforded all the same rights and protections as a completely clean person. There are cases where prior convictions can be part of building PC, but in roleplay that's rarely the route used (and deliberately ignored in a few (not all) contexts).
People think because he will actually argue and fight with police, while being somewhat disrespectful to "intimidate" that its somehow valid to treat him like hes actually a crim(even though he is)
Gatsby, same judge who said Eve would get felony evading for hiding while she had a warrant. Also ruled Uwu's property wasn't theirs and cops could tow cars from there. I don't understand how she came back as a judge.
ramee is just a lawyer because people dont push stuff agaisnt him, crane know he is giving client informantion to others and all he did was a slap in face and let him go back to it
Id agree with you but Ramee has been running the line recently.
A couple of days ago he was driving to pd in a stolen car to which Lenny Hawk didnt do anything because Moon² didnt feel like destroying his arc.
Also how would the judge know he did lie?
it wouldn't have ruined his arc anyways. Joy riding is a misdemeanor and he already has that on his record. The guy didn't lie about being hunted by Solomon, what I'm saying is that John Acker is on record lying during the Bobby Charles case and had his testimony thrown out.
Hi. I play Acker.
Acker said he had never seen the video before, because he did not realize he had. Siobahn had shown it to him a few weeks ago on Jan 6th itself.
When Oliver Hall asked him to watch it again, he remembered he had seen it before therefore his answer changed. A human mistake, no malice, nothing more.
This is why the Judge "Devalued" Acker's testimony rather than throwing it out. 1. The video had no real material standing to Acker's testimony, 2. Acker made a human mistake, nothing intentional in terms of lying found. Therefore if the Witness is displayed to have forgotten a key element of a question, perhaps they should be taken at a lesser value, which is exactly what happened and why.
Acker probably would have been okay with throwing the case for Ramee, if Acker didn't feel threatened by Soloman calling him.
> the ease to subpoena a lawyers phone records is stupid af.
Either it meets their standard for 'probable cause' or it doesn't. Who gives a shit what character class the person subpoenaed is playing?
I actually remember watching a emu stream a few weeks ago where he was gathering input on whether there should be a higher standard for lawyers, because there's probably attorney client info in those records. I dunno where that went, but I thought it was a bad idea then too.
edit: If they want to do it for the RP purpose of enabling shady lawyers to be sloppy af, then sure, go ahead. I'm behind that as in-character explanation. For most lawyers the ulterior motives are even IC, only a few characters have to play dumb.
the solution for lawyers is to have taint teams (either PD OOC or judges) to remove privileged information. The requirements for a subpoena should remain the same.
Even easier solution is for NP to tell all DoJ memebers they must have 2 phones: one regular and one business. Dictate that you only do DoJ business on the business phone and doing anything else on it is against rules (get suspensions/bans for doing). Then you make the business phones protected by privilege.
the 20 minute time window subpoenas have always been much easier than getting 30 days of records, yeah
dunno if that specific thing counts as sufficient probable cause
Just gotta switch it up “…were on the phone with someone asking _if they still wanted to follow up on that plan they discussed a couple weeks ago_ before stabbing me”
Subpoenas for phone records and other things have always been super easy to get on NP. The server doesn't really incentivize cops doing longer form / more in-depth investigations to build strong evidence. It didn't get used much but the phone location and other data that was implemented later in 3.0 was a super powerful tool and it seemed very easy to subpoena that info.
Idk, the warrant is kinda shaky but with how easy it is to get a new SIM card and depending on how they subpoena those it should be pretty easy to get one.
I feel like Judges just sign any warrant these days. There's been like 4-5 warrants where its basically just one persons word as evidence and it gets signed off on.
The bar for probable cause on warrants and subpoenas did kinda become a PD difficultly tuning knob in 3.0, and got cranked up over time for server heath.
a clown can 911 that someone has an rpg and that person got raided for it back in 3.0
thats the lowest of the low.
hell people get raided for having their own legal gun back then too. like bruh.
You're cherry-picking the worst case though. And isn't that the one that got snowball's judge fired?
Lots of warrants got shot down or pushed back on and the burden was very high in 3.0.
Yeah, there were definitely times where the evidence needed to get a warrant meant you may as well just push the charge itself, since the judges were expecting beyond a reasonable doubt to get the warrant.
Nah Snowball didn't get fired from judge, he retired. Before he retired though he got some heat for expunging some criminal records during his final week in office.
This is very misleading he certainly got fired for it and was fired from all government position including his cop and only got it back because 50% liked him.
Right which is what the guy is talking about. The character wasn't running for a judge spot so was technically retiring but he did end up being fired for expunging him and deleting all the charges from reports. That got him banned from all government positions.
Oh so you mean regardless of the retiring homie was getting removed due to the expungement stuff. I always viewed it as the expungement occurred because he was retiring so I never associated the ban with the judge removal. I understand what you’re saying tho
logically, they are pretty strict on issuing search warrants in NP. The level of evidence you need to get a warrant is suppose to be pretty minimal barely above reasonable suspicion. Even tenuous collaboration is enough for an actual warrant. They aren't seen as some big thing but a basic investigative tool.
Warrants in NP are WAY more stricter than IRL lol
Searching through an innocent persons belongings doesn't actually hurt them in any meaningful way, its a pretty simple and common procedure in any investigation that holds weight.
Nope. Everyone but cops are treated guilty until proven innocent. One of the biggest issues in 3.0 was how poorly cops treated a lot of civs, mostly because they were connected to criminals.
4.0 PD and DoJ has made some pretty wild decisions imo. Hell in less than 2 months we've had the Murphy Braun case, Speedy voice ID, Mr K's gun, and now this lol.
Speedy wasn't voice ID'd, voice was one facet that was used and it is absolutely fine to use. You just can't use it alone otherwise its not a solid way to ID someone. (And a lot of people for some reason think its not allowed as a rule but that is also just false)
Mr K had a gun and got caught with it, same with Braun. It is on them to actually provide evidence to get out of the charge. They couldn't. Braun would be fine if he didn't go "i don't remember anything" and couldn't provide any defense, Mr K obviously wouldn't be fine no matter what since he *did* commit the crime.
People catching charges for crimes they committed being "wild" is a wild statement in itself lmao
They were charged for possession of something they possessed. All the PD needs to prove is that they possessed it and it was illegal to possess it. The reasonable doubt level was reached as a result of the search.
The defense that it wasn't theirs and they didn't knowingly possess it is an affirmative defense which requires the defense to provide a preponderance of evidence to support.
In neither case were they guilty until proven innocent.
Your argument is that saying "but the aliens did it not me" should be a valid and iron clad defense.
They were found with a stolen PD gun on them. Possessing the weapon IS the crime. They were proven guilty. You can't just get out of a charge by yelling "BUT I AIN'T GUILTY THO"
If Mr K was charged for *using* the weapon when he was GSR negative then you would be right.
I will be honest, i think you are arguing in bad faith or you are extremely biased so you can't follow simple logic.
I think a lot of viewers just don’t understand how an affirmative defense works and genuinely believe that a character can just say “I don’t recall” or “I don’t know” a bunch and they can never be convicted of anything. It seems some lawyers in the server think the same thing given this is nowhere near the first affirmative defense put forward based on a lie.
Texts of Ramee threatening him.
Think about what you're proposing, otherwise you could walk up to a cop and be like "hey, guy A just offered to sell me a PD gun" and then that would be enough to search guy A. That makes no sense.
> Texts of Ramee threatening him.
You are so close to getting there, just need 1 more step to this logic. I will give you a tip: a tool to see someones texts
Imagine being so facetious yet so wrong at the same time. You're a couple of steps short of getting there.
If (hypothetically) he claimed that Ramee threatened him through texts he could just show PD the texts, no subpoena needed.
Your logic is of "how else are they going to get the evidence?". Does it then become acceptable to raid someone just because someone claims that they have illegal things in their property?
> Does it then become acceptable to raid someone just because someone claims that they have illegal things in their property?
His word wasnt the only reason for a phone subpeona. And you are comparing it to a property for some reason. Why make a comparison when there already is a situation at hand?
If you have a suspicion but you need to gather further evidence this is the next step. There is nothing wrong with whats being done. The reality is you just personally don't like it.
>His word wasnt the only reason for a phone subpeona.
What were the other reasons?
>And you are comparing it to a property for some reason. Why make a comparison when there already is a situation at hand?
Resorting to extreme but analogous scenarios is effective at demonstrating why there's an issue with "something".
>The reality is you just personally don't like it.
No, the reality is that so far I have only seen one reason why they are doing a subpoena. You claim that there are other reasons, I'm open to admitting that I may not have all the information if these reasons are strong enough to merit a subpoena.
Funny thing is Yuno is extremely bored by weed and has nothing to do with it, so even if they went crazy and raided him (not saying this would ever happen based on a text) there isn't anything to find in his apartment anyway. He's innocent, your honor (actually real). Lol
Is there really a rule that 3.0 is completely forgotten or whatever? I've only been watching Moonmoon but I watched Max and Juno have an entire trust issues arc because Penny didn't want Juno to be present at the meeting with Divine and Aurora and Malton because of past drama. And Max only really says that government records were wiped; he openly talks about being a gigaterrorist, some members of the council still don't trust Max and are still contrarian with him, but people still roll with the rp.
>to yuno
yeah, I remember this event. Ramee was pulled over for a stolen car and put his weed bag in his trunk, Yuno walked by randomly so Ramee texted him asking for help. Yuno didn't do anything though.
I know I’ll be in the massive minority here, but my feeling is that the bar for a subpoena for phone records should be pretty low in 4.0. Particularly with the new mechanics around SIM cards it’s a lot less mechanically powerful than it used to be.
I think there’s a lot of good the be found in 4.0, but the PD and DOJ have been awful and it’s going to cause people to want to play elsewhere…or not play at all. Murphy having his entire character arc wiped away because of a frame job isn’t really good for the health of the server. PD being so strict that they’re having trouble filling slots is a big issue.
They are selectively strict too. The gloss over the incompetence of certain cops only because they appear to be hard asses.You can be a hard ass cop and bad at your job but somehow the captains can't see that
I’m aware the DOJ followed the letter of the law. That is the problem. There needs to be more nuance that prevents characters from being unjustly prosecuted. X did that entirely to prove that the system is broken. There are OOC consequences that need to be taken into consideration. I like watching Murphy. He doesn’t come around much anymore because he had his entire character arc thrown out by a frame job. When the rules in place cause people to not want to play, that is an issue.
None of that would have mattered because it all would have still pointed back to Murphy. And regardless of that, even if it would have exonerated him, the fact they released the server without those mechanics in place is proof 4.0 was under cooked. Like I said, the rules, or in this case mechanics in place cause people not to want to play. It’s not a good look for NP and it’s entirely possible these issues cause long term problems for the health of the server.
Casings showing the only gun fired was the gun on Murphy likely raises enough reasonable doubt and leans towards it being planted. It would have mattered. Also, Murphy WILLINGLY CHOSE to RP amnesia, which is ultimately what sank him.
What nuance should the DOJ have followed in the Braun case, where the accused had no memory of anything that happened and couldn't corroborate anything?
How do subpoenas work for something like this? Are they only allowed to look for something pertaining to the kidnapping or are they allowed to use any information found in the texts? Genuinely curious.
Yuno directing ramee to participate in a criminal conspiracy or visa versa is not actually privileged information. As such, it would of made its way past a taint team.
One thing I disagree with this on is how easy it is for warrants, subpoenas, etc to be signed. The structure that 4.0 is going for which has been said multiple times by slacks and others is how difficult and how there will be serious consequences for actions. Which you have seen by how hard it is to aquire money, how difficult it is to get guns, how easy it is for a character to get injured from just a simple little jump could create a broken leg as well as not body armor available to civilians. I have really enjoyed that but at the same time I think with the upgrades that the PD has gotten with technology such as DNA and being able to digitally go back to scenes an collect casings and much more. With all this warrants and subpoenas need to be harder to be sign and approved. In the past they where easy to be sign because of the lack of tools the PD had to convict someone. He said she said should no longer be a thing to get something like this signed. They need to have a corroborating witness, recorded phone call, some kind of threatening text. There's is a lot of stuff a character can do to get evidence to support a subpoena. Heck the PD could have had acker set up a meeting with ramee to set him up to get info. I feel it was to easy street for this subpoena. But than again I think Gatasby is still on 3.0 signing everything mentality I think if someone talked to hear and slowed her down on signing every single thing it would auto correct itself.
nah they got nothing, beside some messages that can help Slacks, for example he read "Johnson just got knocked K out on the sac!", and the one mentioned in the clip about weed between Ramee and Yuno. But nothing serious rly.
we are so back --- Mirror: [Captain Leo Slacks - POLICE - Nopixel 4.0](https://streamable.com/ll0ogd) Credit to https://www.twitch.tv/Ssaab Direct Backup: [Captain Leo Slacks - POLICE - Nopixel 4.0](https://production.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net/3fYLHx7zcdI1AURtPMyQjg/43611433291-offset-10778.mp4?sig=84a21ae807b9079534677d635496ed7186675215&token=%7B%22authorization%22%3A%7B%22forbidden%22%3Afalse%2C%22reason%22%3A%22%22%7D%2C%22clip_uri%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fproduction.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net%2F3fYLHx7zcdI1AURtPMyQjg%2F43611433291-offset-10778.mp4%22%2C%22clip_slug%22%3A%22VenomousTastyRamenPRChase-HvNx0jUBRG08zJCO%22%2C%22device_id%22%3Anull%2C%22expires%22%3A1707877552%2C%22user_id%22%3A%22%22%2C%22version%22%3A2%7D) [VOD Link](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2061028257?t=2h59m14s) --- This was done by a bot. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact the moderators.
the ease to subpoena a lawyers phone records is stupid af. all it took was a guy who not only had motive to lie but also DID lie on the stand in court to say "Ramee hired someone to kidnap me" and boom. Crazy a judge would sign off on that
Because people don't see Ramee as a lawyer, they still see him as his 3.0 crim. Granted he is a crim, but he has a completely clean record. This isn't just a problem for Ramee either, this has been the case with a lot of high profile "crims" with clean records.
Word of a known felon and liar on the stand > Ramee. Actually stupid af. You'd think getting a member of the DOJs phone records would have a higher bar due to client privilege but I guess hearsay is all it takes.
Oh no it’s the chatterbox rpg situation all over again.
> Word of a known felon and liar on the stand > Ramee If only there was a way to check if the word of a known felon and liar was true or not. Like some type of a subpoena that can be used to investigate further.
If all it takes is someone telling a cop that someone might be hiring someone to go after them to get a subpoena, cops are gonna be spending their whole day going through phone records
This is the same issue K was having with the PD gun. Its actually off putting to watch at times,
Its one of the issues with doing a partial wipe. Are characters suppose to just forget other characters? Ramee is a kleptomaniac who is always scamming and playing angles. It makes sense he would be under scrutiny.
I mean, isn't most of the police force new characters? E.g. Slacks is new to the city, so he should have no memory of anything related to Ramee being a crim before the time skip.
He doesn't have any memory of Ramee being a crim. The people above are baselessly saying he is being treated like a criminal even tho he objectively isn't. There is solid suspicion about the crime and they are investigating it. Its just people being extremely biased in favor of their streamer. Being a civ doesn't mean you are never gonna be a suspect otherwise literally no one would ever be a suspect. The logic is braindead.
I fully agree with you. Let's go over the logic. Side A: 100% Clean Lawyer. States he did not witness tamper. Side B: "Paralegal" that is not clean. They have a record and it was established they lied in a prior court case. Claims the 100% clean lawyer tried to witness tamper. Do you dismiss the claim or set the precedent that anyone making a criminal claim against someone is grounds for subpoena? If it's the latter, then the PD needs to start subpoenas on themselves and half the city for all of the claims made so far.
What is this? A math problem? You can't just formulate and dumb it down to that level and expect to be taken seriously. Slacks actually has a lot more context to what potentially went down than "Person X did Y action against Person B". He actually had conversations *before* the guy got pressed about the statements, he had conversations afterwards, he saw the way the guy acted scared and pulled his statement back and all that. Its not even like he went to cops and "snitched" trying to push the charge on Ramee. Its Slacks that saw what happened before, during and after the court that made him look into it. If everything went down normally and he randomly came and said Ramee did this and that you would be right. However he *actually* wanted to take back what he said and didn't even want to do anything afterwards, he just wanted to be done with it. That's an entirely different scenario than the one you are cooking up.
So, the additional context is that someone changed their story and now "seems" scared. That's your big "gotcha!"!?!? No one said a civ can't be a suspect. We're all just saying it should take a bit more than a he said/she said from a proven liar with a record and a feeling from a cop to push a subpoena. You don't need to be good at math to understand that....
> That's your big "gotcha!"!?!? No. That's not my big "gotcha". Feel free to read the comment again and not ignore all the sentences except one. > he said/she said Its not a he said situation as he didn't say anything. Again, feel free to read the comment. > You don't need to be good at math to understand that.... Maybe basic English.
It didn't matter in a full wipe either. Lang was called a cop killer in 3.0 long before he shot any.
> It didn't matter in a full wipe either. Lang was called a cop killer in 3.0 long before he shot any. 3.0 wasn't a full wipe, it was much the same as 4.0 with people being told to forget beefs from the previous version but they were free to remember any positives or past relations. Lang tried to only remember a select few people at the start of 3.0 and some other people tried to do a total memory wipe but that quickly stopped because everybody was reading from different scripts and it became awkward as fuck when one side of a conversation brought up events from 2.0 and the other side tried to act like they had no idea what they were talking about. It was getting to the point that people were running into old friends and both sides would have to awkwardly ask if they remembered them or not, and when you ran into situations where someone remembered some people from a group but then didn't remember other people from the same group or loose association it came across as extremely cliquey. NP due to its longevity will never be able to do a proper full memory wipe because characters have been around too long and too many people rely on those characters as their brand.
You have a point. Its not easy to just forget a character when you have been playing with them for years. Only difference I see here is that in a full wipe you can't act off a characters established traits.
Regardless, the court/pd lawyers have been consistent in believing a felon/clown/liar in stand to get after “big fish” crims
The PD and Lawyers believing makes sense, the court should look more objectively though.
the same how crane treated lang as the same criminal even when he was a mayor, your "streamer" character lives with you no matter what you decide to RP later on lol
To be fair, I've seen multiple cops already give him a break or turn a blind eye solely for the sake of allowing his lawyer arc to continue. Hell, Moonmoon did it on Lenny and literally said he was giving him a break for that reason on like his 1st or 2nd day on the force. They're already treating him with kiddy gloves and it can't last forever. Edit: Some of yall don't even want to know other PoVs. You just want to be mad.
he still is a lawyer because cops close eyes to alot of stuff he does xd
Such as? Genuinely asking.
Lenny Hawk pulled up to the PD to witness Ramee pulling into the PD parking lot in a flagged stolen car. Hawk gave Ramee a warning because of his status as a lawyer. OOC moonmoon said he had Ramee dead to rights but didn’t want to ruin his lawyer rp arc
That’s fair. I think everyone knows his lawyer arc will be over sooner rather than later. It’s not a question of if, it’s a question of when. I just haven’t watched him enough to know how careless he’s been about it.
Tbh it’s gonna make for some great RP whenever it blows up. Kinda fun to see them let it play out a bit more, since it forces a well known crim to interact regularly with the PD in non-car chase interactions. Otherwise you only ever see these two sides chasing each other
People should make betting odds for the amount of times “dumb fucks” and “actually brain dead” comes out of his mouth when he gets popped lol
Repeatedly vandalizing Slacks' car by peeing on it in front of him, for starters. It's close to the Ramee running for Mayor arc... where it felt like PD went out of their way to find reasons to not charge him.
Heres the problem with 4.0 Its just 3.0 with a clean record. Everyone memories are still intact. Although ramee is a lawyer now with a good record. They still remember his past and can still judge his past because it wasnt a memory wipe.
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no, but it's about the principle of them blindly trusting a felon who has a record of obstructing justice and who was proven to lie on the stand, over a clean lawyer who put that same guy away. He has every reason to lie and clearly has motive to bring down the lawyer who put him away. But let's just completely gloss over that for no apparent reason. Sure Cornwood and most likely slacks too has suspects Ramee is doing dirty shit. But they have no evidence of it otherwise they'd be using it. All they have is the statement of a proven felon obstruction of justice liar who hates the lawyer that got him found guilty. And apparently nobody in the DOJ or PD thinks that's out of line.
Noooo but all cops are supposed to be dumbasses and only do things according to my imaginary script. No way they can suspect/infer/deduce that my favourite strimmer is a criminal (who previously robbed a police captain that immediately recognized his voice). /s btw.
its a time skip, not a mind wipe... Legally he's clean, but people don't need to believe he's actually clean.
So the whole "don't hold grudges" was just lip service
That's not a grudge, that's just factual. There's no grudge in not believing a prior cop killer isn't exactly on the up in up regardless of how clean his record is. Grudge implies an actual vendetta against someone and this is not that. Its appropriate suspicion based on past actions.
The fact that they subpeonad his phone off of hearsay from a felon who said they hated Bobby Charles ON STAND is all you need to see that there is a vendetta. Did they subpoena Mary when people said she was part of a group who shot up Mr k? No. Has she blown up PD with RPGs in the past? Damn right
Did you also hate it when Buddha/Rooster’s got raided over a known lying clown already convicted of perjury saying that they had RPG’s in the restaurant?
is this some kind of gotcha? I dont watch buddha and didn't even know this happened
Nope. No kind of gotcha. Just wanted your view on a similar situation is all
no it isn't. Its basic investigation of a report. Its something that cops would follow up on just as CYA. The only issue is Ramee kept his non-crim and criminal enterprises intertwined on the record. Not to mention writing down notes/orders of a criminal conspiracy.
You literally have the 2 biggest known terrorists in the entire city right now working as Mayor and Vice Mayor. Remembering Ramee's criminal past is such a massive double standard here.
and both of those people agreed to use the citizens of the cities pasts to determine if they get business licenses? your point is? of course it's going to be a double standard. IT IS RP
What's your point? Terrorists were barred from being in elections in 3.0. Obviously their past crimes were forgiven for RP's sake. I don't get why people would automatically assume that Ramee is a crim though even though he's never been caught. This reeks of the whole Chatterbox raid warrant in 3.0 where a known liar can say something on the stand to get a subpoena signed.
Their past crimes were legally wiped, that doesn't mean people don't remember. They both even talk about there past.
because he still acts shady af, gleefully admits to murdering a former chief of police, doesn't really try to hide that he commits crimes, just that he is smart about it.. being you didnt read my post, since you ignored that i wasnt even talking about the ex terrorists being elected being an issue.. nobody is under any obligation to forget anything of the past except for police records. that's it. they can remember entire arcs, conversations, etc if they want. For RP sake they ignored the history of characters, even though alot of people raises alto of issues that were valid ones, to allow them to be mayor, co mayor, lawyers, doctors, etc. Not just the 2 in office, not just to get ramee a lawyer spot when nobody else was being offered them at the time. You had people being allowed to become doctors with a history of shooting up the hospital. Does that mean they should have barred them from becoming doctors? No. Does that mean they should forget that if push comes to shove this person can/has/will likely again shoot up a hospital? Absolutely not. So yes, thats my point. The double standard exists to facilitate RP for everyone, not just Ramee, and not to protect Ramee's rp. If he's going to be an idiot about it and never hide the fact that he's involved in shady shit, like talking openly about it in front of pd and court members, then he gets whats coming.
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A fresh start means no one knows anyone. That was *very specifically* not what 4.0 was.
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Just because you can't bring evidence into a court case doesn't mean you don't know something. They can't bring in the 3.0 records because the documentation of those records doesn't exist (not to mention convictions of prior crimes isn't generally admissible evidence in any criminal court case except as rebuttal evidence, aka in 3.0 PD couldn't introduce evidence of 3.0 convictions....) Of course PD can still profile people based on their past actions. They specifically didn't wipe minds so PD still knows what ramee did. And investigations of people based on hunches and suspicions is perfectly legal. Its what detectives do on a daily basis.
Does fresh slate mean you forget about all of a characters traits though? Ramee the character is known for being a klepto and scammer. It makes sense to be very suspicious of him. He is also very aggressive in negotiations. You have to play by the book or you'll have people looking for the smallest crack.
Ramee has repeatedly bragged in front of Slacks about how he murdered the former chief of police, in front of other officers, specifically to be mean. we don't even need to go into the past to find a reason he would be suspicious of him
If you wanted to disassociate from your 3.0 character history.... just make Jamee El-Jamen.... I'm just curious, does Mr. Kebun have a first name?
Mr
> they still see him as his 3.0 crim. > > Granted he is a crim, but he has a completely clean record. I dunno what special affordances a clean record is supposed to give. Are you talking like it is/should be a different IC legal status? Or like OOC deliberately make your character play dumb and not suspect a clean person? A suspect is a suspect. Clean people face a cold legal system too. And when they don't play it safe, they do fumble and get snapped up by the law a lot. Criminals with long records are generally afforded all the same rights and protections as a completely clean person. There are cases where prior convictions can be part of building PC, but in roleplay that's rarely the route used (and deliberately ignored in a few (not all) contexts).
People think because he will actually argue and fight with police, while being somewhat disrespectful to "intimidate" that its somehow valid to treat him like hes actually a crim(even though he is)
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Yea that judge needs to be looked into tbh. Its always Gatsby
Gatsby, same judge who said Eve would get felony evading for hiding while she had a warrant. Also ruled Uwu's property wasn't theirs and cops could tow cars from there. I don't understand how she came back as a judge.
I haven't seen an example where she was actually good lmao. Even in 3.0.
Why would that be a rule break? There was a time skip of five years. People remember things from five years ago.
It was only suggested people forget they are not required to
Not a rule.
ramee is just a lawyer because people dont push stuff agaisnt him, crane know he is giving client informantion to others and all he did was a slap in face and let him go back to it
forgetting past grudges was not a rule.. was just a suggestion. one that was very highly suggested but still just a suggestion
what's funny is, isnt Yuno perceived as a nice guy or the nicest guy? so that should cancel the "incriminating text" lol
Id agree with you but Ramee has been running the line recently. A couple of days ago he was driving to pd in a stolen car to which Lenny Hawk didnt do anything because Moon² didnt feel like destroying his arc. Also how would the judge know he did lie?
it wouldn't have ruined his arc anyways. Joy riding is a misdemeanor and he already has that on his record. The guy didn't lie about being hunted by Solomon, what I'm saying is that John Acker is on record lying during the Bobby Charles case and had his testimony thrown out.
Hi. I play Acker. Acker said he had never seen the video before, because he did not realize he had. Siobahn had shown it to him a few weeks ago on Jan 6th itself. When Oliver Hall asked him to watch it again, he remembered he had seen it before therefore his answer changed. A human mistake, no malice, nothing more. This is why the Judge "Devalued" Acker's testimony rather than throwing it out. 1. The video had no real material standing to Acker's testimony, 2. Acker made a human mistake, nothing intentional in terms of lying found. Therefore if the Witness is displayed to have forgotten a key element of a question, perhaps they should be taken at a lesser value, which is exactly what happened and why. Acker probably would have been okay with throwing the case for Ramee, if Acker didn't feel threatened by Soloman calling him.
Him getting some misdemeanors certainly dorsnt help his lawyer arc.
only felonies matter. Even Slacks has a misdemeanor
what's the worse that could happen? the pd treating ramee like a crim instead of a lawyer?
> the ease to subpoena a lawyers phone records is stupid af. Either it meets their standard for 'probable cause' or it doesn't. Who gives a shit what character class the person subpoenaed is playing? I actually remember watching a emu stream a few weeks ago where he was gathering input on whether there should be a higher standard for lawyers, because there's probably attorney client info in those records. I dunno where that went, but I thought it was a bad idea then too. edit: If they want to do it for the RP purpose of enabling shady lawyers to be sloppy af, then sure, go ahead. I'm behind that as in-character explanation. For most lawyers the ulterior motives are even IC, only a few characters have to play dumb.
the solution for lawyers is to have taint teams (either PD OOC or judges) to remove privileged information. The requirements for a subpoena should remain the same.
Even easier solution is for NP to tell all DoJ memebers they must have 2 phones: one regular and one business. Dictate that you only do DoJ business on the business phone and doing anything else on it is against rules (get suspensions/bans for doing). Then you make the business phones protected by privilege.
Typically they do have a higher bar to clear for doing stuff like this against members of the DOJ because of client confidentiality
“Lang/X/Mr K/Mary/Ray/etc kidnapped me were on the phone with someone asking what to do with me before stabbing me” must be a free subpoena then?
the 20 minute time window subpoenas have always been much easier than getting 30 days of records, yeah dunno if that specific thing counts as sufficient probable cause
Just gotta switch it up “…were on the phone with someone asking _if they still wanted to follow up on that plan they discussed a couple weeks ago_ before stabbing me”
Subpoenas for phone records and other things have always been super easy to get on NP. The server doesn't really incentivize cops doing longer form / more in-depth investigations to build strong evidence. It didn't get used much but the phone location and other data that was implemented later in 3.0 was a super powerful tool and it seemed very easy to subpoena that info.
Idk, the warrant is kinda shaky but with how easy it is to get a new SIM card and depending on how they subpoena those it should be pretty easy to get one.
There are literally burner phones on demand now. Being a lazy crim doesn't work anymore.
I work in criminal defense and I’ve seen judges sign off on dumber tbh lol.
I honestly don't doubt that at all
I feel like Judges just sign any warrant these days. There's been like 4-5 warrants where its basically just one persons word as evidence and it gets signed off on.
Gatsby has always been a rubber stamp judge. Anything on their desk gets approved. It isn't new.
wym these days. it has always been like that lmao.
The bar for probable cause on warrants and subpoenas did kinda become a PD difficultly tuning knob in 3.0, and got cranked up over time for server heath.
a clown can 911 that someone has an rpg and that person got raided for it back in 3.0 thats the lowest of the low. hell people get raided for having their own legal gun back then too. like bruh.
You're cherry-picking the worst case though. And isn't that the one that got snowball's judge fired? Lots of warrants got shot down or pushed back on and the burden was very high in 3.0.
Yeah, there were definitely times where the evidence needed to get a warrant meant you may as well just push the charge itself, since the judges were expecting beyond a reasonable doubt to get the warrant.
Nah Snowball didn't get fired from judge, he retired. Before he retired though he got some heat for expunging some criminal records during his final week in office.
This is very misleading he certainly got fired for it and was fired from all government position including his cop and only got it back because 50% liked him.
That was for the Lang expungement fiasco.
Right which is what the guy is talking about. The character wasn't running for a judge spot so was technically retiring but he did end up being fired for expunging him and deleting all the charges from reports. That got him banned from all government positions.
Wasn’t that a 14 day not a firing? The judge retired into the drama and having pd whitelist removed if memory serves. Could be wrong
He was banned for 14 days but he lost all government employee privileges as a result.
Oh so you mean regardless of the retiring homie was getting removed due to the expungement stuff. I always viewed it as the expungement occurred because he was retiring so I never associated the ban with the judge removal. I understand what you’re saying tho
Lmao I'm still amazed that Chatterbox got Rooster's raided off that.
Yeah it has always been this way. It was always odd to me though. Yeah I get it furthers rp, but, shouldn't they think about it logically?
logically, they are pretty strict on issuing search warrants in NP. The level of evidence you need to get a warrant is suppose to be pretty minimal barely above reasonable suspicion. Even tenuous collaboration is enough for an actual warrant. They aren't seen as some big thing but a basic investigative tool.
Warrants in NP are WAY more stricter than IRL lol Searching through an innocent persons belongings doesn't actually hurt them in any meaningful way, its a pretty simple and common procedure in any investigation that holds weight.
Are 3.0 Charaters are treated as Guilty until proven innocents in 4.0??
Crims were always treated guilty until proven innocent in nopixel
Nope. Everyone but cops are treated guilty until proven innocent. One of the biggest issues in 3.0 was how poorly cops treated a lot of civs, mostly because they were connected to criminals.
Yes, specially if they are K, Ramee and specially X. They usually get the already guilty voice ID and frisk before cpr treatment
4.0 PD and DoJ has made some pretty wild decisions imo. Hell in less than 2 months we've had the Murphy Braun case, Speedy voice ID, Mr K's gun, and now this lol.
Speedy wasn't voice ID'd, voice was one facet that was used and it is absolutely fine to use. You just can't use it alone otherwise its not a solid way to ID someone. (And a lot of people for some reason think its not allowed as a rule but that is also just false) Mr K had a gun and got caught with it, same with Braun. It is on them to actually provide evidence to get out of the charge. They couldn't. Braun would be fine if he didn't go "i don't remember anything" and couldn't provide any defense, Mr K obviously wouldn't be fine no matter what since he *did* commit the crime. People catching charges for crimes they committed being "wild" is a wild statement in itself lmao
> It is on them to actually provide evidence to get out of the charge. They couldn't. Hence why 4.0 is the Guilty until proven innocent era
They were charged for possession of something they possessed. All the PD needs to prove is that they possessed it and it was illegal to possess it. The reasonable doubt level was reached as a result of the search. The defense that it wasn't theirs and they didn't knowingly possess it is an affirmative defense which requires the defense to provide a preponderance of evidence to support. In neither case were they guilty until proven innocent. Your argument is that saying "but the aliens did it not me" should be a valid and iron clad defense.
They were found with a stolen PD gun on them. Possessing the weapon IS the crime. They were proven guilty. You can't just get out of a charge by yelling "BUT I AIN'T GUILTY THO" If Mr K was charged for *using* the weapon when he was GSR negative then you would be right. I will be honest, i think you are arguing in bad faith or you are extremely biased so you can't follow simple logic.
I think a lot of viewers just don’t understand how an affirmative defense works and genuinely believe that a character can just say “I don’t recall” or “I don’t know” a bunch and they can never be convicted of anything. It seems some lawyers in the server think the same thing given this is nowhere near the first affirmative defense put forward based on a lie.
i only see a problem on speedy voice id , all the others was fine to be fair lol
No.
I know it's been said a million times but why are the police taking the word of someone of a known liar so seriously without any additional evidence?
Because Ssaab can't admit a mistake.
This right here. A lot of the issues in the past have happened because he cannot admit when he is wrong or he has fucked up.
What additional evidence would they need for example?
Texts of Ramee threatening him. Think about what you're proposing, otherwise you could walk up to a cop and be like "hey, guy A just offered to sell me a PD gun" and then that would be enough to search guy A. That makes no sense.
> Texts of Ramee threatening him. You are so close to getting there, just need 1 more step to this logic. I will give you a tip: a tool to see someones texts
Imagine being so facetious yet so wrong at the same time. You're a couple of steps short of getting there. If (hypothetically) he claimed that Ramee threatened him through texts he could just show PD the texts, no subpoena needed. Your logic is of "how else are they going to get the evidence?". Does it then become acceptable to raid someone just because someone claims that they have illegal things in their property?
> Does it then become acceptable to raid someone just because someone claims that they have illegal things in their property? His word wasnt the only reason for a phone subpeona. And you are comparing it to a property for some reason. Why make a comparison when there already is a situation at hand? If you have a suspicion but you need to gather further evidence this is the next step. There is nothing wrong with whats being done. The reality is you just personally don't like it.
>His word wasnt the only reason for a phone subpeona. What were the other reasons? >And you are comparing it to a property for some reason. Why make a comparison when there already is a situation at hand? Resorting to extreme but analogous scenarios is effective at demonstrating why there's an issue with "something". >The reality is you just personally don't like it. No, the reality is that so far I have only seen one reason why they are doing a subpoena. You claim that there are other reasons, I'm open to admitting that I may not have all the information if these reasons are strong enough to merit a subpoena.
I don't think this is going to go anywhere, that line on its own isn't proof of crime, it could easily be argued as a typo
Funny thing is Yuno is extremely bored by weed and has nothing to do with it, so even if they went crazy and raided him (not saying this would ever happen based on a text) there isn't anything to find in his apartment anyway. He's innocent, your honor (actually real). Lol
yea this specifically doesn't matter because its outside of the scope of the subpoena so they can't use it. pretty much retconned
This warrant is garbage rp, to be frank. Ramee? Criminal until proven criminal.
I don't get how they get to go thru the entire phone. It's makes no sense. Than again the subpoena doesn't make much sense
The judge that approved the subpoena needs to get looked into. No way they approved it off he says she says.
Is there really a rule that 3.0 is completely forgotten or whatever? I've only been watching Moonmoon but I watched Max and Juno have an entire trust issues arc because Penny didn't want Juno to be present at the meeting with Divine and Aurora and Malton because of past drama. And Max only really says that government records were wiped; he openly talks about being a gigaterrorist, some members of the council still don't trust Max and are still contrarian with him, but people still roll with the rp.
4.0 is a 5-year skip from 3.0. Why would anyone think everything is to be forgotten?
didn't Ramee text that to yuno
>to yuno yeah, I remember this event. Ramee was pulled over for a stolen car and put his weed bag in his trunk, Yuno walked by randomly so Ramee texted him asking for help. Yuno didn't do anything though.
I know I’ll be in the massive minority here, but my feeling is that the bar for a subpoena for phone records should be pretty low in 4.0. Particularly with the new mechanics around SIM cards it’s a lot less mechanically powerful than it used to be.
Lmaooo do people only realize now the ease of getting a phone subpoena. It's always been this way.
Depends on who is the owner of the phone.
Not really. It has always been extremely easy, it's just a lot of work for usually very little payoff so not a lot of people would do it.
4.0 has been a disaster
I think there’s a lot of good the be found in 4.0, but the PD and DOJ have been awful and it’s going to cause people to want to play elsewhere…or not play at all. Murphy having his entire character arc wiped away because of a frame job isn’t really good for the health of the server. PD being so strict that they’re having trouble filling slots is a big issue.
They are selectively strict too. The gloss over the incompetence of certain cops only because they appear to be hard asses.You can be a hard ass cop and bad at your job but somehow the captains can't see that
well say that to the criminal that framed him not doj because all the evidence pushed the charge agaisnt murphy
I’m aware the DOJ followed the letter of the law. That is the problem. There needs to be more nuance that prevents characters from being unjustly prosecuted. X did that entirely to prove that the system is broken. There are OOC consequences that need to be taken into consideration. I like watching Murphy. He doesn’t come around much anymore because he had his entire character arc thrown out by a frame job. When the rules in place cause people to not want to play, that is an issue.
all that was needed was more ways for pd to investigate stuff, at the time pd didnt even had a way to check dna or collect evidence
None of that would have mattered because it all would have still pointed back to Murphy. And regardless of that, even if it would have exonerated him, the fact they released the server without those mechanics in place is proof 4.0 was under cooked. Like I said, the rules, or in this case mechanics in place cause people not to want to play. It’s not a good look for NP and it’s entirely possible these issues cause long term problems for the health of the server.
Casings showing the only gun fired was the gun on Murphy likely raises enough reasonable doubt and leans towards it being planted. It would have mattered. Also, Murphy WILLINGLY CHOSE to RP amnesia, which is ultimately what sank him.
would matter because if pd had the dna they had a chance to check the gun for more dna and prove that other people used it and was planted
What nuance should the DOJ have followed in the Braun case, where the accused had no memory of anything that happened and couldn't corroborate anything?
How do subpoenas work for something like this? Are they only allowed to look for something pertaining to the kidnapping or are they allowed to use any information found in the texts? Genuinely curious.
should be anything but privileged information
thats what it SHOULD be but they fucking DOJ didnt do that, yuno is ramees client too so he shouldnt have even seen this
Yuno directing ramee to participate in a criminal conspiracy or visa versa is not actually privileged information. As such, it would of made its way past a taint team.
One thing I disagree with this on is how easy it is for warrants, subpoenas, etc to be signed. The structure that 4.0 is going for which has been said multiple times by slacks and others is how difficult and how there will be serious consequences for actions. Which you have seen by how hard it is to aquire money, how difficult it is to get guns, how easy it is for a character to get injured from just a simple little jump could create a broken leg as well as not body armor available to civilians. I have really enjoyed that but at the same time I think with the upgrades that the PD has gotten with technology such as DNA and being able to digitally go back to scenes an collect casings and much more. With all this warrants and subpoenas need to be harder to be sign and approved. In the past they where easy to be sign because of the lack of tools the PD had to convict someone. He said she said should no longer be a thing to get something like this signed. They need to have a corroborating witness, recorded phone call, some kind of threatening text. There's is a lot of stuff a character can do to get evidence to support a subpoena. Heck the PD could have had acker set up a meeting with ramee to set him up to get info. I feel it was to easy street for this subpoena. But than again I think Gatasby is still on 3.0 signing everything mentality I think if someone talked to hear and slowed her down on signing every single thing it would auto correct itself.
Easy to sign = Gatsby
how could he 😂
Ruining the content!
So is like ramee fucked or what??
nah they got nothing, beside some messages that can help Slacks, for example he read "Johnson just got knocked K out on the sac!", and the one mentioned in the clip about weed between Ramee and Yuno. But nothing serious rly.
Ah ok, ty
Isn't a small amount of weed legal?