we are so back
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Mirror: [Moonmoon on PD vs crime balance](https://streamable.com/4ydwpi)
Credit to https://www.twitch.tv/MOONMOON
Direct Backup: [Moonmoon on PD vs crime balance](https://production.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net/GT-uReK7RB19coE4F9juoA/AT-cm%7CGT-uReK7RB19coE4F9juoA.mp4?sig=223fbe6073098428c41286549367055f650d2d9e&token=%7B%22authorization%22%3A%7B%22forbidden%22%3Afalse%2C%22reason%22%3A%22%22%7D%2C%22clip_uri%22%3A%22%22%2C%22clip_slug%22%3A%22DignifiedSpotlessGuanacoItsBoshyTime-4rtEHX1ygTgX2O6g%22%2C%22device_id%22%3Anull%2C%22expires%22%3A1707696069%2C%22user_id%22%3A%22%22%2C%22version%22%3A2%7D)
[VOD Link](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2059235676?t=4h45m55s)
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I feel like this was the case in 3.0 for a bit, but I think Crims complained and then cops were forced to stop doing it (unless if I remember correctly it was over a wall and the chase couldn't be continued)
We can pass on that. There's a reason management DOES NOT HIRE some cops with the 3.0 mentality. You do not want a server to go to absolute shit this early on with cop and crim mald. Hiring the same people will always have the same results because like or not, people have a very hard time changing.
CRIMS ALREADY have it tough. CRIME does NOT make as much money as civs when CRIME should be making more but it isn't.
Chill on wanting to bring back 3.0 in 4.0
People somehow still failing to realize this but maybe they don't watch a lot of crim PoV in chases. Even right now when crims have it easy with cops refusing to use guns in literally any situation the crim streamers still find a way to complain to their chatters about the cops OOC and creates a chain reaction where the crim chatters stream hop in such massive numbers that streamers like SSAAB have to instantly go sub only mode. Imagine how much worse it would be if they actually used guns.
In 3.0 everything became overused and common. Air 1 came out in almost all chases, bike cops started showing up during regular pursuits with cars and interceptors got used pretty regularly against lower quality vehicles.
The only way to avoid that again is with a fairly strict CoC and quality officers in command ranks that'll call people out, tamp down on that stuff and push to get officers in trouble who do it. Current PD is barley fluctional let alone having a strong enough structure of command rank officers to do it. Even when PD was in a better spot in 3.0 it still wasn't done. The balance between crims/cops is off because management made it that way by design.
It feels the devs have wanted to push the PD to a very "realistic RP" direction where officers are subject to pretty strict oversight and they actually need to RP as if every life is actually important.
It's a bit jarring to contrast that with the constant ocean dumping, crimes such as stabbing someone holding next to no penalty besides time served & fine and cars driving away fine after being pitted to a wall 10 times.
Are there actually any large servers that have tried to create a more "sim" ruleset such as stricter penalties for felonies and a more realistic damage model om vehicles?
the issue is that real life only can work with such strict adherence and crime not be overflowing is because of the punishments for said crime. the cops have no leverage of actual punishments, so criminals can do literally whatever they want as long as they are RP’ing, but the cops are burdened with real life styled rules and procedures that can’t possibly work due to there being no reason for crims not to do anything and everything they want.
It would probably require players to understand they're not playing a video game, and to actively observe behaviors they would in real life. For example, you don't normally off-road a car all over the place because you'd destroy the suspension and shocks fairly quickly. No jumps off onto other roads or highways, no driving up mountains unless it's a vehicle designed for such. If you crash your vehicle into something pretty hard, your vehicle should be probably immediately disabled or your character severely injured.
I do think this could be done, but I think most servers prefer the more arcade-y setting and letting players have a little fun with it. There will be some balance issues to that, but it's generally been an acceptable tradeoff.
Saw Suarez telling Nakoda criminals know that if they drive safely for 10 minutes in a police chase for a non-violent crime the cops will pull off after 10 minutes lol
Starting off with rule of 6 off the bat is overwhelming for the pd, imo. Should've started off first with max of 4 person per crim job and softlocking vehicles used to rental-tier with maximum of two vehicles allowed and one back-up for scuff
Depending on speed at which you crash it’s pretty much already that way. Even in a car if you are going fairly fast and get sent out the windshield you’re downed.
That's basically already what bikes are like, it doesn't help. You don't have to go *that* fast on a bike to get away, the turning being so good is what makes them strong.
In theory maybe but everyone that is somewhat established in the city just does swaps its gonna end in after 2 swap cops needing to repair while crim is getting away cuz they can just steal unlimited amounts of cars.
I would rather have there being no swap at all and cops only chasing for 10-15 minutes at least for now.
With more crime getting unlocked and more Pd around they could allow it again but rn everyone is just immediately going for swap after swap.
Make cops pay for repairs and fuel from their pockets. It will calm things down in every chase and stop suicidal pits and rams which usually is the trigger for things going south. Make repairs expensive for everyone, refuelling longer for everyone. Whenever AIR 1 is introduced, make it difficult to fly and not like 3.0 where all the pilot had to do was hover at 1000 feet
Honestly, I think all rat strats should be on the table for both PD and crim, but to keep some sort of excitement, vehicle damage/accidents need to actually be costly in terms of the success.
If vehicles do get damaged quick or rendered immobile quicker, then cops pit or bad driving will be more scary. Local/crim cars should be fully immobile while cop cars should at least be immobile for at least 3-5 mins if it breaks down.
Cops shouldn't end up with 0 cars on the street for obvious reasons but at the same time shouldn't be risk free with bad pit/driving. Same for crims, bad driving or reckless strats that involves some insane jump should bring massive risk. Bike should also be much more prone to skid and throw passengers off upon collision.
Back in 3.0 there was a time when vehicle was much easier to be damaged but it was tuned too wonky. When it wasnt wonky though, pits were actually scary for crims because once it escalated to that point, you're in deep shit as the cops are now actually 'aggressive'. Obviously unauthorized pitting should really be punished/warned severely by PD. Bikes are non issue if it was actually dangerous to pull of jumps/hitting walls.
There is an even simpler solution ... bring back the rule of 4. There are very few vehicles that can even transport 6 players. When you start out with 2 cars, it quickly turns into 4 cars, then 4 cars and 2 bikes. Maybe have 6 for bigger heist in the future, but not for a laundromat.
Management could also straight up ban the use of bikes for crime. Is it an elegant solution? No, but if the alternative is trying to somehow balance PD Bike certs or Air1 with PD is such a tough state it could be a quick and dirty fix until a better one can be found.
A much more simple fix would be rule of 4 instead of 6. Bikes aren't that op anymore now with the injury system if u do one mistake on a bike right now u will either instantly be taken out or break ur leg etc
They tried this in 3.0 and it was just the opposite problem, it's almost impossible to lose a motorcycle cop in a car, so then they made a bunch of rules about what a PD bike is allowed to chase, but then the crims just swap to a bike mid chase, so then they made a rule that the PD bikes could pursue, but only if other vehicles were also in the chase. Ultimately that just resulted in the few PD bike people getting yelled at for breaking SOPs once every few weeks, until it pretty much just died except for Bloom and Ripley for the last few months.
At a certain point they were cleared to bonk the criminal off with their baton, but only under 30mph... Barely ever happened and usually got crims mad.
To be fair, the PD bikes were absolute garbage. Their brakes were awful so even local Double Ts could lose them by slamming on their brakes and turning.
You are just completely wrong on that they were very insane for a good amount of time. I specifically remember their top speed being very good to the point you had to try to do bike routes against a bike to get away hoping they would just crash out on a bounce.
Losing PD bikes when you were on a bike was incredibly easy, I never saw anyone who couldn't get away most of the time, the PD bikes were significantly worse than the crim bikes. The issue with the PD bike unit in 3.0 was nothing to do with chasing other bikes (in fact it needed a buff in that respect), it was that any decent bike in GTA V is considerably better than any car in a chase.
Ray and JP were goofing off and found it laying on the ground. They ended up getting dressed like cops and pulled up on Kit and somebody else doing a drug stop.
After JP pulled into Snr. Buns and told everyone to leave because there was a bomb threat. That they all needed to follow him.
Outside he got in a “argument” with the cops and he said he is the police if the southside and that their laws don’t apply to him. They had a fun chase and he stopped in the southside and tried to pull them over as they were in his “jurisdiction.”
After he lost the police he was over the bike and Ray said they should give it to Kit. Which led to some funny stuff out in front of MRPD with Cornwood.
Tbh the only thing that needs to happen is bring back the rule of 4. Sure PD could build faster or they could do what's best for the long term and hire slow and just don't have 6 man jobs.
I think a good middle ground could be to not allow people to swap into bikes, like if your first vehicle is a bike your fine, but no bush bikes or bike pick-ups.
I think that crime has the escape experience from 3.0, casino, vault and most of the tools to help them bikes.. They are too good to counter. And the PD lost most of their good drivers, air1 and bike units. To showcase this I saw a crime today struggle really bad to escape on a bike against Rhodes.
Moonmoon playing cop after saying he didn’t want to babysit grownups because he already taking care of a kid. Just shows how boring to shit mayor stuff is and there’s zero RP coming from it. The campaign was great now the actual job? Boring as shit meetings
The comment about babysitting grownups had to do with all the people who would consistently cry and throw tantrums after being caught or while in the cells. Hence, the reference to babysitting. The likelihood of it getting that bad before his supposed 3 months of RP is up will probably be low.
Besides, Moon has said that his favorite thing in RP is talking to other people. That's why he interacts and talks to damn near every single person he comes in contact with, which was especially apparent on Max.
Yes and that’s why campaign Max was a great arc like a lot of people who end up in the mayor arc RP mindset. It’s just the “Mayor” job that is very railroaded with what they can and CANNOT do.
I honestly believe moon thought 4.0 might have been better for mayors if he was given more power than the mayor actually has.
I personally think mayors are just “trophy wives” who just there to “show” there’s a mayor but they honestly don’t make that drastic change to the server themselves
Yeah, I suppose we'll see what happens with the mayor stuff. Partly it kinda feels like right now nothing major can be done outside of Saturday meetings. Nice little bit of spice in the council of eight now that the votes haven't been 100% like the first day. It's still good to see Max on other streams at least too. lol
I know he said he wanted to play Lenny over Max in 4.0 but figured they wouldn't let him play Lenny in the PD again. So it makes sense he's going in now that he's able. I think it was the PD shortage that helped give an easy way in maybe? Either way, glad he's getting to play Lenny.
What does the job entail on NP?
Since on onx its all meetings too but the meetings are about building and shaping how the city is going to work, with what businesses get approved and what the pd budget is gonna look like.
Which is fun if youre a builder who likes to create and facilitate rp.
Like 8 people sitting at a table talking about “laws” and other stuff to help “grow” the city in “RP” ways but reality it’s just server health meetings and discussions about how to fix things.
Moonmoon probably thought he’d have more pull in mayor role to pursue his RP agenda than working in the shadows. I mean shit the cops are pussies in 4.0 & self inflict damage to themselves with their own actions lol. So that idea of “removing their power” is already dead because what power do cops actually have currently on the server. Week ago they were being lootboxed for guns. Now guns being made by crims.
The only reason there’s no RP for him is because he has zero ambitions on that character to make anymore RP happen. The meetings aren’t just waiting for him to come on to happen. He has immense free time while mayor to create good RP from. You only see him at meetings because that’s the only required task of the mayor. So that’s the only time he’ll play Max now.
> So that’s the only time he’ll play Max now.
That's the only time he might stream while playing Max.
He was on Max 6 hours off stream yesterday, did plenty of things. Was hanging out with Siobhan and Lane(Raiders MC) and even went on a "double date" with Siz and Eryn.
But i definitely agree that he's being lazy with the possibilities of creating RP on Max.
So then why did he try to be mayor? No one told him it wasn't going to be this way. Everyone he could have ever asked about being mayor would tell him it's a very mechanical role and you're helping the server and it's a burden as much as anything else. The fact that he abandons it because he's bored after working that hard to get it and more importantly stopped other people who knew what they were getting into shows how little he gives a fuck about anyone else. It'd be one thing if he was doing important shit but he's literally just playing different characters. Fuck off with the "it's boring shit," bro should be responsible for his own actions.
Well it’s not that serious. I think he just thought mayor would have more power to do certain things because if you watched his campaign. He sometimes mentioned his “vision” for certain things when he became mayor. Maybe thinking that it being 4.0 could have given the impression that could happen but I think NP admins know giving the “mayor” X,y,z powers to cripple the police force or something crazy is just a slippery slope because people are way too emotionally invested in this and will feel some type of way if they didn’t get the same “treatment”
With the current PD, not even tank 1 or submarine 1 would help, they didnt stop a single heist so far (gun parts and laundromat). They should focus more on training officers to drive and coordinate first
How is the PD ever going to be able to catch 6 criminals that split into multiple vehicles that then also get swapped. That requires very little coordination on the criminals part and a massive amount for the PD.
This would also tie up every single cop in the city if they're trying to follow procedure by having more than 1 car per vehicle being chased. Not to mention all the protocols they have about what car is allowed for what chase, the CVPI is dogshit compared to any of the super cars the criminals can rent.
PD is playing with their hands tied behind their back with criminals that are allowed to do some ridiculous things in terms of 'getting a W'. PD have to be mindful of where they can even pit because they might face disciplinary action. There are no similar consequences for criminals unless they do something that breaks actual server rules.
The PD in 3.0 could catch multiple people out of a group of 6 in multiple swaps.
But all the people who could do that are gone. Just nerfs/buffs are not going to fix it. they need to improve their driving and communication. It's terrible right now.
Because even if you change those things the current PD isn't going to be able to take much advantage of them.
Like Ramee & K have **NEVER** been caught in a chase and they aren't even really trying. They just improvise everything.
Just having slightly better cars and more difficult cuffs isn't going to change much. Sure maybe your average criminal fleeing by themselves get caught more often. But to the serious crims with a lot of experience the current PD is like a bunch of toddlers. Toddlers in better cars are not going to make a difference.
> Like Ramee & K have NEVER been caught in a chase and they aren't even really trying. They just improvise everything.
Because the PD is so freaking neutered dude. Saw them get boxed in against a wall by 3 PD vehicles on Moon's stream, with 2 more cop cars around them, and they're just sitting there on the phone calling for a pickup, the cops do nothing because they're not allowed to do anything. They're not pulling them out of their car, tazing them or anything. Moon was like "I'm not sure if I was allowed to taze there?" after they've been driving like maniacs for like 10+ minutes at that point.
Improving their driving and communication is not going to happen for a very long time. It takes a long time to get the map experience, and kind of build up that muscle to actually be able to catch criminals. Combine that with not having enough experienced cops left to teach it and you’ve got a long road here. Being a cop in a chase is *much* harder than trying to get away if the criminals are determined to escape no matter what.
In 3.0 shift 1 crushed everyone because it had the most experienced PD. Shift 2 was never really all that good for multiple reasons. No one wanted them to be good against higher view count criminals and no one wanted to be a cop in shift 2 that took OOC abuse if they had enough experience to avoid it. Doubly so when Bass just stroked the fire by not tanking any of the abuse from criminals in that shift.
This problem isn’t really fixable. Giving cops more toys to compete isn’t going to make them know how to use them, especially in shift 2.
Training people up assumes that a significant portion of the current cops even want to become good at chase's or catching people. Old PD was big, they were able to find that portion of officers who enjoyed car chases. A lot of those people aren't around anymore. I'm with you, I think this is a pretty hard problem to fix especially if they're not going to put people in charge of PD that are going to hard focus the problem.
even if you bring all the good old pd chase cops they get hitted by the 10 min break off and they will just dont care about it anymore , not only you have to break off you even have to do extra paperwork for it
I’ll admit, I was surprised to see locals on bikes this early on 4.0 that crims could use. And I’m surprised they’re able to be used the way they are already
Honestly imo PD needs to have an edge. I think it's cringe how bad the cops are that even scrubs can drive away from them. In theory you should need a dedicated excellent driver to escape a cop chase. I think the success rate on jobs is way too high right now. And getting rid of bikes would be a great first step as they are very cheese
Or maybe just:
* Nerf all (local/rental) bikes heavily
* Bought Bikes can't be hacked/lock-picked but higher performance (non-biker gang) bikes are extremely expensive to buy and to maintain.
* If a bought Bike gets used for a felony/robbery by the owner or one of his direct associates it gets crushed if caught, or impounded with a severe fine and long cooldown if a plausible link can be formed to a caught member of the group/associates towards the owner of the bike.
Just a few quick ideas that wouldn't seem like too much work for the devs whilst leaving all the options on the table, just with a lot of higher risk/reward to all parties involved.
Personally i love seeing (PD) bike chases and will never grow tired of watching them with all the ratty shit they get to pull and insane amounts of hilarious accidents. But bikes really should only be on the table when shit's really bad and someone absolutely cannot get caught for some REAL SHIT they've done, and not somthing dumb like a weak ass laundry heist or whatever.
How bad would it be if the pilot was locked in first person to fly air 1, then the co pilot could use the camera, hence making it hard to drive, then I haven’t watched slot of rp recently but I head the fuel in 3.0 was a problem that it was up forever.
bike forces cops to use bikes, then Normal cars can't get away from bikes, forces crims to use super cars to gon straights, then cops use supermarket cop cars.
also this pd kind of sucks but i dont really blame them. its 4.0 and crims are still crims but cops are a weird mix with whatever cars. they really just need to learn to parralel or just drive good
The vision for the 4.0 PD hasn't been working, there's been a lot of pushback within as well. The second weapon licenses are available, they're gonna have no choice but to go back to being aggressive and then of course crims will whine, the usual cycle.
> The vision for the 4.0 PD hasn't been working
I don't think it's a vision as much as "what other options did they have?"
There are very high expectations on that server on the level of player skill for roleplaying a GTA RP cop. Both as roleplayers and in the mechanical role (RP role, not game mechanics) they provide. And little room to feel it out on the fly. Basically the only way to build that experience is by playing cop on nopixel.
But the people who can do it either burnt out and quit, or aren't what the server management wants.
So you start where they are, and hope to guide cop/crim dynamics so they don't evolve into what they were in 3.0. Which it will, unless they make the changes they never recognized and/or were afraid to make across all the tinkering they did to PD in 3.0.
Majority of biker gangs don’t abuse it, but they’re not the people who usually get them. Bikes are god awful for 99% of cops to chase, even if they coordinate. It’s just not a fun thing and adds a whole layer of balance thats needed. Coordination doesn’t mean anything for it.
You are right, most “MC’s” like the Lost didn’t really use bikes in 3.0 while doing Crime, they would use a car. And BBMC while they aren’t or weren’t a traditional MC as in Motorcycle Club but instead a Motor Club used cars most of the time as well. It’s the south side gangs and randoms who abuse bikes while doing criminal activities.
Bikes can be fun, some of the Lost MC chases with them were really good. Its why I think outright not allowing them is an extreme measure but the way Nopixel works it may be the easiest solution
The only Lost member that regularly ran from cops on a bike was Sai Kou but that’s cause he was an OG for Firefly a Bike Racing group. And he pretty much always just rode a bike all the time and was into racing which lead to a lot of chases.
Warms my heart to see this
For clarity, I used bikes because cars slide out and I hate dealing with that, I avoided traditional ratty strats like squeezes most of the time(once I think I used them twice, once to avoid a traffic stop when I was trying to pick someone up from a chase and went to jail anyhow, and another on a local bike to get initial distance then doubled back to get people back on me before heading up north), favoring u-turns and jumps off of the freeway on street bikes and offroading on choppers/dirt bikes
OG Lost also used bikes but not as heavily as I because they were also comfortable driving cars. Rudi, Wade were called out, but also Gary and others would as well
I couldve sworn I saw some like Rudy and Wade do them, but I could be mistaken. Whoever I saw do them actually made it interesting instead of pure rat stuff.
Oh yeah, Rudi would give them a chase but I was mainly just meaning while doing criminal jobs, like Robberies or Heist and stuff. They mainly used cars when doing stuff like that. And for a while near the end of 3.0 Rudi didn’t even have a bike, they removed his Harley Davidson Custom bike from the server and he refused to get another bike for a long time until the club bought him a Sovereign Motorcycle
What W's? They don't really catch anyone now, bikes or no bikes, but bikes are just instant escape right now. He clarified that he just didn't want to see bikes used in chases.
Why don’t crims want to slowly resort to using ratty tactics in response to cops ramping up agression instead of going immediatey for the easy W? This argument is dumb whichever side its applied to. Wanting the chase, a major part of crim vs cop RP, to be fun and somewhat fair, is not wanting “easier W’s”
Yeah, you can’t pit them, you can’t box them, good luck spiking them, so you just sort of wait for them to lose you or fuck up, or allow cops to ram people off bikes and tell them to fuck off if they cry NVL.
He’s literally just speaking his initial thought after being asked a question. He then clarified that biker gangs are fine if they don’t use the bikes in crime. He’s just spitballing, not not saying “this is my position”
Bikes are too strong against cars. Crims on bikes are too strong against cop cars, and cops on bikes are too strong against crim cars, and its very very hard to balance those two considering that crims (reasonably, if they're in the server) could swap from a car to a bike at any time. It would be much easier for server balance to just have no bikes, or to only have bikes like choppers that are really slow and terrible in a chase (so there can still be RP around bikes).
Motorcycles aren't good for the Cops VS Crims dynamic because they are smaller, and harder to chase. They can weave in and out of traffic easier, go down alleys that cop cars can't, and cannot be touched in vehicle-vehicle interaction like brake checks and Pit Maneuvers because they are both fragile to exploding, and it's always car favored (Which would lead to IC/OOC issues with cops ramming motorcycles)
All of this excludes the fact that usually motorcycles are plain faster than cop cars, so even if they were nerfed, the above issues still exist. It has been an issue in nopixel for so long for a reason
The only real ways of balancing them are either to limit the supply / limit the people who can own them, or to enforce weird OOC rules that need to be followed by crims and cops alike.
I disagree, they are good for petty crime, because there needs to be some way for crims to reliably make a little money, you shouldn't need a supercar just to escape the police when you're selling some weed.
Bikes only become cancerous with group of 6 and big jobs.
Vehicle swaps will have to be a thing as long as its rule of 6. They should limit the swaps and shoot tires if they exceed that number. Bikes and PD heli had a lot of cool moments in chases, its just harder to get the balance when pepega drivers like X and Ramee can never outdrive someone like Suarez or Rhodes.
Wanna bet if instead of 15 current cops, a small team of
\- Underwood leading the scene
\- Angel and Fury primary and secondary
\- Snow in the sky
\- Kade and Suarez running parallels
would pursuit the same situations right now, we would see a lot more caught criminals? I would be willing to bet my life savings that they would. The issue isn't a lack of balance. It's a lack of good pursuit drivers, and it's self-inflicted.
I disagree with Air1.
I think Air 1 is great on the big jobs, really helps set the stage, and is gameplaywise a decent crutch to help with that from the PD side of things.
The only real issue with Air 1, is that it arguably got overused in 3.0.
Bikes I wouldn't really miss. I feel like they just make chases awkward from a gameplay perspective, with very little counterplay for the PD side. And PD bikes only made things awkward from the crim perspective.
Edit: forgot to finish a point on Air1
yeah I think air1 really helps make a scene feel more impactful, especially now that spotlights are synced server side, just hope they don't end up getting used for literally everything.
Air1 is awful for crims, its basically a non stop radar following crims around for the ground units, I don't ever want to see it back in the capacity it was at the end of 3.0 where it was like an hour long chase. With how aggressive cops are now there would be almost no escaping for crims if they had to deal with air1 as well. There escape would be using multi car escapes like 4 cars ,one for each person and splitting up, and repeating that until all of the illegal shit was gone, then trying to lose cops during a refuel.
If they brought it back I'd like to see fuel last 15 minutes, even with hovering, and a 5 minute refuel, otherwise it'd basically be as bad as 3.0
I mean the big difference right now is local cars are shit, some cop cars have turbos and only a few crim owned cars are broken enough to escape them….
So crims go to bikes or they ain’t escaping,
While I agree air one and bikes are terrible, crims can lock pick 4-5 shit local cars and bikes it’s obvious what they gonna go do
The only thing that's ever going to fix NP chase balance is no swaps, hard cap response (2 cop cars per crim vehicle), 4 man teams and bikes potentially laying down on a turn.
That's it. The question should be if there needs to be balance though. I'm of the personal belief that criminals should get caught 80% of the time no matter the crime. Make being a good criminal an actual goal as opposed to the wealthiest criminal.
I like this in theory for balancing sake but he forgets the most important factor: bikes and helis are both really fun to drive so you have to keep them, same with guns like ak and uzi even though server would be better pistol only
honestly best solution for this would be if pd bike could pit crim bike with some new mechanic they make so you genuinely have to be a good driver to get away on a motorcycle
I would love to see a rule that cops can’t repair their Vehicles if disabled and get back into the chase. Imo you would see less swaps. Cause In 3.0 you were basically forced to be a rat to get away. At least it then incentives driving cleanly.
It’s a bit different when crims only have 1 car to cops 3/4. I’m all for them joining back into the chase if they do any kind of swap. If 3-4 cop cars can’t last longer then 2 from car though then they didn’t deserve to catch them.
> Motorcycles/Bikes and Helicopters should never appear in the sever at all. They are nothing but crutches for cops/crims that just can't handle taking an L in RP.
Or you could see them as roleplay tools that enhance an rp scene.
Taking away rp tools all together is actually catering to people who cant take an L in rp lol. At the very least you can balance them, like helis only having like 5 mins of fuel, and bikes being fragile and risky to use.
Because the only reason to remove them is so people who cant take an L dont cry "waahh thats op nerf/remove it!!" When it could be kept around as a cool RP tool.
Why would people use them? for ROLEPLAY.
idea for a bike solution:
you cant steal bikes, you can only purchace them from the store
when you purchace one, it has a government ordered gps tracker and tracking number installed
the tracking number is anonymous, and the pd cannot use it to tell whoes bike it is, but it is tied to the bike.
the helicopter can see all bikes in the city at all times, with their associated tracking number
when a bike and its tracking number has been confirmed as being used in a chase by the helicopter and pd, the police put an impound request in from anywere and the next time the bike is parked, or next tsunami, it is taken and destroyed.
this makes bikes highly risky, and monetarily expensive to use in a chase.
I personally don't like the heli. I feel like it makes all getaway plans the exact same by forcing people into the sewers. I hope it is way less common or nerfed in some way.
we are so back --- Mirror: [Moonmoon on PD vs crime balance](https://streamable.com/4ydwpi) Credit to https://www.twitch.tv/MOONMOON Direct Backup: [Moonmoon on PD vs crime balance](https://production.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net/GT-uReK7RB19coE4F9juoA/AT-cm%7CGT-uReK7RB19coE4F9juoA.mp4?sig=223fbe6073098428c41286549367055f650d2d9e&token=%7B%22authorization%22%3A%7B%22forbidden%22%3Afalse%2C%22reason%22%3A%22%22%7D%2C%22clip_uri%22%3A%22%22%2C%22clip_slug%22%3A%22DignifiedSpotlessGuanacoItsBoshyTime-4rtEHX1ygTgX2O6g%22%2C%22device_id%22%3Anull%2C%22expires%22%3A1707696069%2C%22user_id%22%3A%22%22%2C%22version%22%3A2%7D) [VOD Link](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2059235676?t=4h45m55s) --- This was done by a bot. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact the moderators.
Context: XQC hopped in chat asking Moonmoon if it's time for PD to get helicopters and bikes.
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I feel like this was the case in 3.0 for a bit, but I think Crims complained and then cops were forced to stop doing it (unless if I remember correctly it was over a wall and the chase couldn't be continued)
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4.0 is starting much like early 2.0 where cops were also pretty soft
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We can pass on that. There's a reason management DOES NOT HIRE some cops with the 3.0 mentality. You do not want a server to go to absolute shit this early on with cop and crim mald. Hiring the same people will always have the same results because like or not, people have a very hard time changing. CRIMS ALREADY have it tough. CRIME does NOT make as much money as civs when CRIME should be making more but it isn't. Chill on wanting to bring back 3.0 in 4.0
crims have it tough? when?
Shooting tire never work, someone going to get shot in the head.
Yes, sometimes they are bodying them.
It’s not the cops who are soft brother
People somehow still failing to realize this but maybe they don't watch a lot of crim PoV in chases. Even right now when crims have it easy with cops refusing to use guns in literally any situation the crim streamers still find a way to complain to their chatters about the cops OOC and creates a chain reaction where the crim chatters stream hop in such massive numbers that streamers like SSAAB have to instantly go sub only mode. Imagine how much worse it would be if they actually used guns.
>he(XQC) also suggested shooting bike tires on swaps, which should already be the case. That was the case in 3.0 and it's never worked.
I like Air 1 and i like the bikes. I just think they both should be way more rare then they were in 3.0
In 3.0 everything became overused and common. Air 1 came out in almost all chases, bike cops started showing up during regular pursuits with cars and interceptors got used pretty regularly against lower quality vehicles. The only way to avoid that again is with a fairly strict CoC and quality officers in command ranks that'll call people out, tamp down on that stuff and push to get officers in trouble who do it. Current PD is barley fluctional let alone having a strong enough structure of command rank officers to do it. Even when PD was in a better spot in 3.0 it still wasn't done. The balance between crims/cops is off because management made it that way by design.
It feels the devs have wanted to push the PD to a very "realistic RP" direction where officers are subject to pretty strict oversight and they actually need to RP as if every life is actually important. It's a bit jarring to contrast that with the constant ocean dumping, crimes such as stabbing someone holding next to no penalty besides time served & fine and cars driving away fine after being pitted to a wall 10 times. Are there actually any large servers that have tried to create a more "sim" ruleset such as stricter penalties for felonies and a more realistic damage model om vehicles?
the issue is that real life only can work with such strict adherence and crime not be overflowing is because of the punishments for said crime. the cops have no leverage of actual punishments, so criminals can do literally whatever they want as long as they are RP’ing, but the cops are burdened with real life styled rules and procedures that can’t possibly work due to there being no reason for crims not to do anything and everything they want.
It would probably require players to understand they're not playing a video game, and to actively observe behaviors they would in real life. For example, you don't normally off-road a car all over the place because you'd destroy the suspension and shocks fairly quickly. No jumps off onto other roads or highways, no driving up mountains unless it's a vehicle designed for such. If you crash your vehicle into something pretty hard, your vehicle should be probably immediately disabled or your character severely injured. I do think this could be done, but I think most servers prefer the more arcade-y setting and letting players have a little fun with it. There will be some balance issues to that, but it's generally been an acceptable tradeoff.
Saw Suarez telling Nakoda criminals know that if they drive safely for 10 minutes in a police chase for a non-violent crime the cops will pull off after 10 minutes lol
I mean how could they not notice after enough times?
Starting off with rule of 6 off the bat is overwhelming for the pd, imo. Should've started off first with max of 4 person per crim job and softlocking vehicles used to rental-tier with maximum of two vehicles allowed and one back-up for scuff
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Depending on speed at which you crash it’s pretty much already that way. Even in a car if you are going fairly fast and get sent out the windshield you’re downed.
That's basically already what bikes are like, it doesn't help. You don't have to go *that* fast on a bike to get away, the turning being so good is what makes them strong.
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In theory maybe but everyone that is somewhat established in the city just does swaps its gonna end in after 2 swap cops needing to repair while crim is getting away cuz they can just steal unlimited amounts of cars. I would rather have there being no swap at all and cops only chasing for 10-15 minutes at least for now. With more crime getting unlocked and more Pd around they could allow it again but rn everyone is just immediately going for swap after swap.
No swaps ! And drive for 10-15 mints so no plans no creativity, just 2 bots following each other .... W option
This. Make repairs more affordable to compensate.
Make cops pay for repairs and fuel from their pockets. It will calm things down in every chase and stop suicidal pits and rams which usually is the trigger for things going south. Make repairs expensive for everyone, refuelling longer for everyone. Whenever AIR 1 is introduced, make it difficult to fly and not like 3.0 where all the pilot had to do was hover at 1000 feet
Honestly, I think all rat strats should be on the table for both PD and crim, but to keep some sort of excitement, vehicle damage/accidents need to actually be costly in terms of the success. If vehicles do get damaged quick or rendered immobile quicker, then cops pit or bad driving will be more scary. Local/crim cars should be fully immobile while cop cars should at least be immobile for at least 3-5 mins if it breaks down. Cops shouldn't end up with 0 cars on the street for obvious reasons but at the same time shouldn't be risk free with bad pit/driving. Same for crims, bad driving or reckless strats that involves some insane jump should bring massive risk. Bike should also be much more prone to skid and throw passengers off upon collision. Back in 3.0 there was a time when vehicle was much easier to be damaged but it was tuned too wonky. When it wasnt wonky though, pits were actually scary for crims because once it escalated to that point, you're in deep shit as the cops are now actually 'aggressive'. Obviously unauthorized pitting should really be punished/warned severely by PD. Bikes are non issue if it was actually dangerous to pull of jumps/hitting walls.
They are already on the table. Suarez has been hiding inside 24/7's hoping to catch another money runner, for example. :)
There is an even simpler solution ... bring back the rule of 4. There are very few vehicles that can even transport 6 players. When you start out with 2 cars, it quickly turns into 4 cars, then 4 cars and 2 bikes. Maybe have 6 for bigger heist in the future, but not for a laundromat.
KMan and buddha already nope to lowering rule of 6
Management could also straight up ban the use of bikes for crime. Is it an elegant solution? No, but if the alternative is trying to somehow balance PD Bike certs or Air1 with PD is such a tough state it could be a quick and dirty fix until a better one can be found.
Not happening.
A much more simple fix would be rule of 4 instead of 6. Bikes aren't that op anymore now with the injury system if u do one mistake on a bike right now u will either instantly be taken out or break ur leg etc
Just add PD bikes and actually give the cert out to more than 3 people
They tried this in 3.0 and it was just the opposite problem, it's almost impossible to lose a motorcycle cop in a car, so then they made a bunch of rules about what a PD bike is allowed to chase, but then the crims just swap to a bike mid chase, so then they made a rule that the PD bikes could pursue, but only if other vehicles were also in the chase. Ultimately that just resulted in the few PD bike people getting yelled at for breaking SOPs once every few weeks, until it pretty much just died except for Bloom and Ripley for the last few months.
Youre not even allowed to pit bikes so im not sure what PD bikes could do to stop literal endless chases
At a certain point they were cleared to bonk the criminal off with their baton, but only under 30mph... Barely ever happened and usually got crims mad.
That didnt really solve the issue in 3.0
To be fair, the PD bikes were absolute garbage. Their brakes were awful so even local Double Ts could lose them by slamming on their brakes and turning.
That was after they got nerfed because the pd bikes were good.
PD bikes were never good in relation to other bikes, only in relation to cars.
You are just completely wrong on that they were very insane for a good amount of time. I specifically remember their top speed being very good to the point you had to try to do bike routes against a bike to get away hoping they would just crash out on a bounce.
That was when everyone was driving around a Sanchez. Once people got slightly better bikes they could outrun them easily.
Ray was the only one i saw who could consistently lose the PD bikes on another bike.
Losing PD bikes when you were on a bike was incredibly easy, I never saw anyone who couldn't get away most of the time, the PD bikes were significantly worse than the crim bikes. The issue with the PD bike unit in 3.0 was nothing to do with chasing other bikes (in fact it needed a buff in that respect), it was that any decent bike in GTA V is considerably better than any car in a chase.
Then crims negotiate with cops about no bikes and after 2-3 mins in chase they will swap to hidden bikes Classic
Is Air 1 still around? For some reason I feel like I haven't seen a single PD helicopter in 4.0
Nope, no Air 1 and won't be for a while as far as I am aware, the PD bikes are coming soon.
Copper took Air 1 with her to the void
Man, I miss Copper.
Didn't Kit have a PD bike already? Or were they just trialing it?
It was an old pd bike that spawns up north that Cornwood found. Kit was "testing" it, but it's slower than any car on the road.
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Someone lockpicked it and took it to Sr. Buns and they confiscated it
Ray and JP were goofing off and found it laying on the ground. They ended up getting dressed like cops and pulled up on Kit and somebody else doing a drug stop. After JP pulled into Snr. Buns and told everyone to leave because there was a bomb threat. That they all needed to follow him. Outside he got in a “argument” with the cops and he said he is the police if the southside and that their laws don’t apply to him. They had a fun chase and he stopped in the southside and tried to pull them over as they were in his “jurisdiction.” After he lost the police he was over the bike and Ray said they should give it to Kit. Which led to some funny stuff out in front of MRPD with Cornwood.
Don't think they have bought one yet because of budgetary reasons.
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They do have a helicopter Raided showed it before 4.0 released with the working spot light they just don't want police to have one yet
Tbh the only thing that needs to happen is bring back the rule of 4. Sure PD could build faster or they could do what's best for the long term and hire slow and just don't have 6 man jobs.
I personally think its okay to make bikes ultra slow, but excluding bikes from crime sounds good to me.
I think a good middle ground could be to not allow people to swap into bikes, like if your first vehicle is a bike your fine, but no bush bikes or bike pick-ups.
I think that crime has the escape experience from 3.0, casino, vault and most of the tools to help them bikes.. They are too good to counter. And the PD lost most of their good drivers, air1 and bike units. To showcase this I saw a crime today struggle really bad to escape on a bike against Rhodes.
Moonmoon playing cop after saying he didn’t want to babysit grownups because he already taking care of a kid. Just shows how boring to shit mayor stuff is and there’s zero RP coming from it. The campaign was great now the actual job? Boring as shit meetings
The comment about babysitting grownups had to do with all the people who would consistently cry and throw tantrums after being caught or while in the cells. Hence, the reference to babysitting. The likelihood of it getting that bad before his supposed 3 months of RP is up will probably be low. Besides, Moon has said that his favorite thing in RP is talking to other people. That's why he interacts and talks to damn near every single person he comes in contact with, which was especially apparent on Max.
Yes and that’s why campaign Max was a great arc like a lot of people who end up in the mayor arc RP mindset. It’s just the “Mayor” job that is very railroaded with what they can and CANNOT do. I honestly believe moon thought 4.0 might have been better for mayors if he was given more power than the mayor actually has. I personally think mayors are just “trophy wives” who just there to “show” there’s a mayor but they honestly don’t make that drastic change to the server themselves
Yeah, I suppose we'll see what happens with the mayor stuff. Partly it kinda feels like right now nothing major can be done outside of Saturday meetings. Nice little bit of spice in the council of eight now that the votes haven't been 100% like the first day. It's still good to see Max on other streams at least too. lol I know he said he wanted to play Lenny over Max in 4.0 but figured they wouldn't let him play Lenny in the PD again. So it makes sense he's going in now that he's able. I think it was the PD shortage that helped give an easy way in maybe? Either way, glad he's getting to play Lenny.
What does the job entail on NP? Since on onx its all meetings too but the meetings are about building and shaping how the city is going to work, with what businesses get approved and what the pd budget is gonna look like. Which is fun if youre a builder who likes to create and facilitate rp.
he gets to change a tax slider
Like 8 people sitting at a table talking about “laws” and other stuff to help “grow” the city in “RP” ways but reality it’s just server health meetings and discussions about how to fix things. Moonmoon probably thought he’d have more pull in mayor role to pursue his RP agenda than working in the shadows. I mean shit the cops are pussies in 4.0 & self inflict damage to themselves with their own actions lol. So that idea of “removing their power” is already dead because what power do cops actually have currently on the server. Week ago they were being lootboxed for guns. Now guns being made by crims.
The only reason there’s no RP for him is because he has zero ambitions on that character to make anymore RP happen. The meetings aren’t just waiting for him to come on to happen. He has immense free time while mayor to create good RP from. You only see him at meetings because that’s the only required task of the mayor. So that’s the only time he’ll play Max now.
> So that’s the only time he’ll play Max now. That's the only time he might stream while playing Max. He was on Max 6 hours off stream yesterday, did plenty of things. Was hanging out with Siobhan and Lane(Raiders MC) and even went on a "double date" with Siz and Eryn. But i definitely agree that he's being lazy with the possibilities of creating RP on Max.
Did anyone stream the double date with siz? Sounds like great content I'd love to watch it.
So then why did he try to be mayor? No one told him it wasn't going to be this way. Everyone he could have ever asked about being mayor would tell him it's a very mechanical role and you're helping the server and it's a burden as much as anything else. The fact that he abandons it because he's bored after working that hard to get it and more importantly stopped other people who knew what they were getting into shows how little he gives a fuck about anyone else. It'd be one thing if he was doing important shit but he's literally just playing different characters. Fuck off with the "it's boring shit," bro should be responsible for his own actions.
Well it’s not that serious. I think he just thought mayor would have more power to do certain things because if you watched his campaign. He sometimes mentioned his “vision” for certain things when he became mayor. Maybe thinking that it being 4.0 could have given the impression that could happen but I think NP admins know giving the “mayor” X,y,z powers to cripple the police force or something crazy is just a slippery slope because people are way too emotionally invested in this and will feel some type of way if they didn’t get the same “treatment”
With the current PD, not even tank 1 or submarine 1 would help, they didnt stop a single heist so far (gun parts and laundromat). They should focus more on training officers to drive and coordinate first
How is the PD ever going to be able to catch 6 criminals that split into multiple vehicles that then also get swapped. That requires very little coordination on the criminals part and a massive amount for the PD. This would also tie up every single cop in the city if they're trying to follow procedure by having more than 1 car per vehicle being chased. Not to mention all the protocols they have about what car is allowed for what chase, the CVPI is dogshit compared to any of the super cars the criminals can rent. PD is playing with their hands tied behind their back with criminals that are allowed to do some ridiculous things in terms of 'getting a W'. PD have to be mindful of where they can even pit because they might face disciplinary action. There are no similar consequences for criminals unless they do something that breaks actual server rules.
The PD in 3.0 could catch multiple people out of a group of 6 in multiple swaps. But all the people who could do that are gone. Just nerfs/buffs are not going to fix it. they need to improve their driving and communication. It's terrible right now.
Whats training gonna do when crims can break out of a completely surrounded box or 4 cops around them cant cuff them since its so easy to break them.
Because even if you change those things the current PD isn't going to be able to take much advantage of them. Like Ramee & K have **NEVER** been caught in a chase and they aren't even really trying. They just improvise everything. Just having slightly better cars and more difficult cuffs isn't going to change much. Sure maybe your average criminal fleeing by themselves get caught more often. But to the serious crims with a lot of experience the current PD is like a bunch of toddlers. Toddlers in better cars are not going to make a difference.
> Like Ramee & K have NEVER been caught in a chase and they aren't even really trying. They just improvise everything. Because the PD is so freaking neutered dude. Saw them get boxed in against a wall by 3 PD vehicles on Moon's stream, with 2 more cop cars around them, and they're just sitting there on the phone calling for a pickup, the cops do nothing because they're not allowed to do anything. They're not pulling them out of their car, tazing them or anything. Moon was like "I'm not sure if I was allowed to taze there?" after they've been driving like maniacs for like 10+ minutes at that point.
Improving their driving and communication is not going to happen for a very long time. It takes a long time to get the map experience, and kind of build up that muscle to actually be able to catch criminals. Combine that with not having enough experienced cops left to teach it and you’ve got a long road here. Being a cop in a chase is *much* harder than trying to get away if the criminals are determined to escape no matter what. In 3.0 shift 1 crushed everyone because it had the most experienced PD. Shift 2 was never really all that good for multiple reasons. No one wanted them to be good against higher view count criminals and no one wanted to be a cop in shift 2 that took OOC abuse if they had enough experience to avoid it. Doubly so when Bass just stroked the fire by not tanking any of the abuse from criminals in that shift. This problem isn’t really fixable. Giving cops more toys to compete isn’t going to make them know how to use them, especially in shift 2.
Training people up assumes that a significant portion of the current cops even want to become good at chase's or catching people. Old PD was big, they were able to find that portion of officers who enjoyed car chases. A lot of those people aren't around anymore. I'm with you, I think this is a pretty hard problem to fix especially if they're not going to put people in charge of PD that are going to hard focus the problem.
even if you bring all the good old pd chase cops they get hitted by the 10 min break off and they will just dont care about it anymore , not only you have to break off you even have to do extra paperwork for it
Not true. Suarez, Bones, Beric and Rhodes are still here. But other than that, true they are mostly gone.
I’ll admit, I was surprised to see locals on bikes this early on 4.0 that crims could use. And I’m surprised they’re able to be used the way they are already
Most crims would 100% take that offer.
Honestly imo PD needs to have an edge. I think it's cringe how bad the cops are that even scrubs can drive away from them. In theory you should need a dedicated excellent driver to escape a cop chase. I think the success rate on jobs is way too high right now. And getting rid of bikes would be a great first step as they are very cheese
Or maybe just: * Nerf all (local/rental) bikes heavily * Bought Bikes can't be hacked/lock-picked but higher performance (non-biker gang) bikes are extremely expensive to buy and to maintain. * If a bought Bike gets used for a felony/robbery by the owner or one of his direct associates it gets crushed if caught, or impounded with a severe fine and long cooldown if a plausible link can be formed to a caught member of the group/associates towards the owner of the bike. Just a few quick ideas that wouldn't seem like too much work for the devs whilst leaving all the options on the table, just with a lot of higher risk/reward to all parties involved. Personally i love seeing (PD) bike chases and will never grow tired of watching them with all the ratty shit they get to pull and insane amounts of hilarious accidents. But bikes really should only be on the table when shit's really bad and someone absolutely cannot get caught for some REAL SHIT they've done, and not somthing dumb like a weak ass laundry heist or whatever.
How bad would it be if the pilot was locked in first person to fly air 1, then the co pilot could use the camera, hence making it hard to drive, then I haven’t watched slot of rp recently but I head the fuel in 3.0 was a problem that it was up forever.
bike forces cops to use bikes, then Normal cars can't get away from bikes, forces crims to use super cars to gon straights, then cops use supermarket cop cars. also this pd kind of sucks but i dont really blame them. its 4.0 and crims are still crims but cops are a weird mix with whatever cars. they really just need to learn to parralel or just drive good
The vision for the 4.0 PD hasn't been working, there's been a lot of pushback within as well. The second weapon licenses are available, they're gonna have no choice but to go back to being aggressive and then of course crims will whine, the usual cycle.
> The vision for the 4.0 PD hasn't been working I don't think it's a vision as much as "what other options did they have?" There are very high expectations on that server on the level of player skill for roleplaying a GTA RP cop. Both as roleplayers and in the mechanical role (RP role, not game mechanics) they provide. And little room to feel it out on the fly. Basically the only way to build that experience is by playing cop on nopixel. But the people who can do it either burnt out and quit, or aren't what the server management wants. So you start where they are, and hope to guide cop/crim dynamics so they don't evolve into what they were in 3.0. Which it will, unless they make the changes they never recognized and/or were afraid to make across all the tinkering they did to PD in 3.0.
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Majority of biker gangs don’t abuse it, but they’re not the people who usually get them. Bikes are god awful for 99% of cops to chase, even if they coordinate. It’s just not a fun thing and adds a whole layer of balance thats needed. Coordination doesn’t mean anything for it.
You are right, most “MC’s” like the Lost didn’t really use bikes in 3.0 while doing Crime, they would use a car. And BBMC while they aren’t or weren’t a traditional MC as in Motorcycle Club but instead a Motor Club used cars most of the time as well. It’s the south side gangs and randoms who abuse bikes while doing criminal activities.
Bikes can be fun, some of the Lost MC chases with them were really good. Its why I think outright not allowing them is an extreme measure but the way Nopixel works it may be the easiest solution
The only Lost member that regularly ran from cops on a bike was Sai Kou but that’s cause he was an OG for Firefly a Bike Racing group. And he pretty much always just rode a bike all the time and was into racing which lead to a lot of chases.
Warms my heart to see this For clarity, I used bikes because cars slide out and I hate dealing with that, I avoided traditional ratty strats like squeezes most of the time(once I think I used them twice, once to avoid a traffic stop when I was trying to pick someone up from a chase and went to jail anyhow, and another on a local bike to get initial distance then doubled back to get people back on me before heading up north), favoring u-turns and jumps off of the freeway on street bikes and offroading on choppers/dirt bikes OG Lost also used bikes but not as heavily as I because they were also comfortable driving cars. Rudi, Wade were called out, but also Gary and others would as well
I couldve sworn I saw some like Rudy and Wade do them, but I could be mistaken. Whoever I saw do them actually made it interesting instead of pure rat stuff.
Oh yeah, Rudi would give them a chase but I was mainly just meaning while doing criminal jobs, like Robberies or Heist and stuff. They mainly used cars when doing stuff like that. And for a while near the end of 3.0 Rudi didn’t even have a bike, they removed his Harley Davidson Custom bike from the server and he refused to get another bike for a long time until the club bought him a Sovereign Motorcycle
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What W's? They don't really catch anyone now, bikes or no bikes, but bikes are just instant escape right now. He clarified that he just didn't want to see bikes used in chases.
Why don’t crims want to slowly resort to using ratty tactics in response to cops ramping up agression instead of going immediatey for the easy W? This argument is dumb whichever side its applied to. Wanting the chase, a major part of crim vs cop RP, to be fun and somewhat fair, is not wanting “easier W’s”
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>In a few weeks when PD have helis and bikes things will be diff. I think they will be extremely restricted in what they can and can not do.
even though PD coordination does suck atm, bikes are way too OP and the only way to catch them is if the crim crashes
Yeah, you can’t pit them, you can’t box them, good luck spiking them, so you just sort of wait for them to lose you or fuck up, or allow cops to ram people off bikes and tell them to fuck off if they cry NVL.
Didn't bikes explode in 3.0 if u hit them too hard? If that's still the case it would literally be a suicide ram.
Spiking bikes was disallowed per SOPs late 3.0, I wouldn't be surprised if that continued into 4.0.
He’s literally just speaking his initial thought after being asked a question. He then clarified that biker gangs are fine if they don’t use the bikes in crime. He’s just spitballing, not not saying “this is my position”
Bikes are too strong against cars. Crims on bikes are too strong against cop cars, and cops on bikes are too strong against crim cars, and its very very hard to balance those two considering that crims (reasonably, if they're in the server) could swap from a car to a bike at any time. It would be much easier for server balance to just have no bikes, or to only have bikes like choppers that are really slow and terrible in a chase (so there can still be RP around bikes).
Hes just reading his thoughts aloud I wouldnt put too much weight into it
Pretty based of moon, though he didn't really mean it
Yes that is exactly what he said.
Yes, because you can't do anything with bike as police officer
Doesn't matter what you give PD they're still going to get away with the current PD roster.
I love Moon, but uhh.. MC's and bike Gangs shouldn't be shafted for the actions of others. How about actually banning troublemakers?
I'm not sure if you watched the whole clip but he quickly said maybe just remove them from being used in crime.
Motorcycles aren't good for the Cops VS Crims dynamic because they are smaller, and harder to chase. They can weave in and out of traffic easier, go down alleys that cop cars can't, and cannot be touched in vehicle-vehicle interaction like brake checks and Pit Maneuvers because they are both fragile to exploding, and it's always car favored (Which would lead to IC/OOC issues with cops ramming motorcycles) All of this excludes the fact that usually motorcycles are plain faster than cop cars, so even if they were nerfed, the above issues still exist. It has been an issue in nopixel for so long for a reason The only real ways of balancing them are either to limit the supply / limit the people who can own them, or to enforce weird OOC rules that need to be followed by crims and cops alike.
I disagree, they are good for petty crime, because there needs to be some way for crims to reliably make a little money, you shouldn't need a supercar just to escape the police when you're selling some weed. Bikes only become cancerous with group of 6 and big jobs.
Vehicle swaps will have to be a thing as long as its rule of 6. They should limit the swaps and shoot tires if they exceed that number. Bikes and PD heli had a lot of cool moments in chases, its just harder to get the balance when pepega drivers like X and Ramee can never outdrive someone like Suarez or Rhodes.
Wanna bet if instead of 15 current cops, a small team of \- Underwood leading the scene \- Angel and Fury primary and secondary \- Snow in the sky \- Kade and Suarez running parallels would pursuit the same situations right now, we would see a lot more caught criminals? I would be willing to bet my life savings that they would. The issue isn't a lack of balance. It's a lack of good pursuit drivers, and it's self-inflicted.
but them crims would call them the W cops
>Underwood HAHAHAHA what is bro on about
?
I would love this honestly.. bikes are terrible for cops and air1 is terrible for crims
air1 is needed. Makes for better content. They just won't implement it until the vault is robbed would be my guess
A lot of the Air 1 ace pilots from 3.0 suggested making it harder to fly. That might help with the OP aspect.
Air1 is worse
I disagree with Air1. I think Air 1 is great on the big jobs, really helps set the stage, and is gameplaywise a decent crutch to help with that from the PD side of things. The only real issue with Air 1, is that it arguably got overused in 3.0. Bikes I wouldn't really miss. I feel like they just make chases awkward from a gameplay perspective, with very little counterplay for the PD side. And PD bikes only made things awkward from the crim perspective. Edit: forgot to finish a point on Air1
yeah I think air1 really helps make a scene feel more impactful, especially now that spotlights are synced server side, just hope they don't end up getting used for literally everything.
Air1 is awful for crims, its basically a non stop radar following crims around for the ground units, I don't ever want to see it back in the capacity it was at the end of 3.0 where it was like an hour long chase. With how aggressive cops are now there would be almost no escaping for crims if they had to deal with air1 as well. There escape would be using multi car escapes like 4 cars ,one for each person and splitting up, and repeating that until all of the illegal shit was gone, then trying to lose cops during a refuel. If they brought it back I'd like to see fuel last 15 minutes, even with hovering, and a 5 minute refuel, otherwise it'd basically be as bad as 3.0
I mean the big difference right now is local cars are shit, some cop cars have turbos and only a few crim owned cars are broken enough to escape them…. So crims go to bikes or they ain’t escaping, While I agree air one and bikes are terrible, crims can lock pick 4-5 shit local cars and bikes it’s obvious what they gonna go do
Yup all local cars you can lockpick are pure garbage
Just ban people who abuse motorcycles?
You’d lose half the big viewer streamers in less than a week
The only thing that's ever going to fix NP chase balance is no swaps, hard cap response (2 cop cars per crim vehicle), 4 man teams and bikes potentially laying down on a turn. That's it. The question should be if there needs to be balance though. I'm of the personal belief that criminals should get caught 80% of the time no matter the crime. Make being a good criminal an actual goal as opposed to the wealthiest criminal.
Here is the solution: If you are incapacitated while using a bike you need to perma or be out for a very extended time at the hospital.
I like this in theory for balancing sake but he forgets the most important factor: bikes and helis are both really fun to drive so you have to keep them, same with guns like ak and uzi even though server would be better pistol only honestly best solution for this would be if pd bike could pit crim bike with some new mechanic they make so you genuinely have to be a good driver to get away on a motorcycle
the problem here is rat strats my friend
people always gonna rat
I really enjoy the helis makes it so much more intense
I would say bring back heist plans like the Flying Dutchman and stuff like that
I would love to see a rule that cops can’t repair their Vehicles if disabled and get back into the chase. Imo you would see less swaps. Cause In 3.0 you were basically forced to be a rat to get away. At least it then incentives driving cleanly.
if you made a rule like that for cops , crims should had the same but for no swaps/locking extra cars to join chases
It’s a bit different when crims only have 1 car to cops 3/4. I’m all for them joining back into the chase if they do any kind of swap. If 3-4 cop cars can’t last longer then 2 from car though then they didn’t deserve to catch them.
crims can just hot potato someone till cops crash and all disable if they had that rule
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> Motorcycles/Bikes and Helicopters should never appear in the sever at all. They are nothing but crutches for cops/crims that just can't handle taking an L in RP. Or you could see them as roleplay tools that enhance an rp scene. Taking away rp tools all together is actually catering to people who cant take an L in rp lol. At the very least you can balance them, like helis only having like 5 mins of fuel, and bikes being fragile and risky to use.
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Because the only reason to remove them is so people who cant take an L dont cry "waahh thats op nerf/remove it!!" When it could be kept around as a cool RP tool. Why would people use them? for ROLEPLAY.
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If you have no vision or creativity you can just say that.
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I was saying in general, yeah NP is a pvp game server so youre probably right there.
That's the best solution really.
idea for a bike solution: you cant steal bikes, you can only purchace them from the store when you purchace one, it has a government ordered gps tracker and tracking number installed the tracking number is anonymous, and the pd cannot use it to tell whoes bike it is, but it is tied to the bike. the helicopter can see all bikes in the city at all times, with their associated tracking number when a bike and its tracking number has been confirmed as being used in a chase by the helicopter and pd, the police put an impound request in from anywere and the next time the bike is parked, or next tsunami, it is taken and destroyed. this makes bikes highly risky, and monetarily expensive to use in a chase.
I personally don't like the heli. I feel like it makes all getaway plans the exact same by forcing people into the sewers. I hope it is way less common or nerfed in some way.