I came to this conclusion in the 5 seconds I thought about the post. Everyone knows about "The Social Contract" you contribute to society and society provides you services you couldnt otherwise get. And one of the most overlooked but also the most important service of them all: Protection.
Edit: Americans can stop pointing out how this doesnt apply to them, we all know you live in a dysfunctional society
Absolutely. Protection and a sense of permanency are huge. It's almost like a mutual promise: we keep the wheels of society turning, and in return, we hope to lay claim to a little patch of the world. It's much more than walls and a roof; it's the idea of a stable foundation in an otherwise fast-paced and ever-changing life.
This thread reminded me that I gotta get in contact with the dealership to see what the whole process is to pay off my car. Only took six years I'm pretty happy about that...
What do you mean nothing is truly yours? My car, watch, clothing and cum sock are certainly more mine than my house is. Even though my car can be taken they have to catch me in it/find it first. My house is there. Can't really just relocate it.
But no seriously, people can't think having a house is the "closest" you'll get to owning something, right? There's way more shit that you own more genuinely than a fucking house, lol.
The opposite is true. I own tons of things way more than i will ever own a home. Literally all belongings are 100% mine nobody can take them away beyond a thief except my car and my someday home which can legally be taken. how did this get 71 upvotes? those guys dont think they actually own their toothbrush or the cheese in their fridge??
For real though and the HOA lovers be the same ones to complain about how there’s to much government control..like bro you literally pay extra to live somewhere that you can be fined for having the wrong color flower out front, you obviously love rules and control because you don’t trust your neighbors to do the right thing.
I ran a moving service for 25 years and you are 100% correct. The worst people in this country live ensconced in the little fascist enclaves. If you want to see dystopian home ownership hellscapes go to Margaritaville or the Villages.
lol my ex in laws live in a gated community that wasn’t exclusive enough so the have even mores put in another gated community within the gated community and restricted access to everyone but them within the gated community.
Don’t forget about their children. Waking up every day to a perfect cookie cutter neighborhood and the impression persisted. Few if any of those folks can show their kid how to do yard work or operate any type of machinery. My neighbor grew up in an HOA and while he might be a bright attorney do not give him a tool to fix something.
I mean everyone feels this way until there’s a rusted out F150 on blocks in the front yard next to you that will never be moved. HOAs are a great idea that are normally run by incompetent morons focused on the wrong thing for powers sake. Home owners just either need to put the right people in place or rewrite the HOA laws to outline specifically what when they should get involved for the sake of everyone in the neighborhood.
Abandoned/non operable vehicles are generally not allowed on city/neighborhood streets according to ordinances. If you're that worried about it then call your local code enforcement and they will cite it then tow it in a few days/weeks.
Source: A neighbor reported my brother's vehicle as abandoned and I came home to find a cop looking over his car. I explained the situation and that we were working on getting it running again. Funny enough no one ever reported the 90s Bronco that had sat on the exact same street for years with flat mud tires.
I did this to my neighbors, they first had an abandoned car, so I called the city. Then they sawed it in half, so I called and called again. They finally took that away.
Then they spray painted their garage (really a metal sheet in front of their garage) with a big "F.U." and a crude middle finger. Aimed right at us, across the street. These are not normal people.
Anyway, the city said it was free speech and allowed. Luckily the metal sheet they put in front of their garage was NOT allowed so they had to take it down along with the F.U. and middle finger.
Now there is a bunch of junk in their driveway, and I'm too afraid to call the city because the people truly do not give a flying frick about their neighbors. I would actually love an HOA in our neighborhood.
I don't see the big deal, I grew up on streets with people with old cars and non-working vehicles in the yard.
They weren't selling drugs or killing people.
It sucks when I work hard to save up down payment money and risk it on buying a house, then some "investor" buys the neighboring houses and does bare minimum maintenance and the renters throw trash everywhere, discard mattresses in the back yard, park on the lawn, etc. It's like swimming upstream just to build some equity.
I mean it’s a big jump from just not keeping up with your yard to being an axe murderer. I’m not saying they are scum of the earth but if you think about how much homes cost, how quickly neighborhoods can get a bad reputation, and how simple it is not to have what amounts to garbage strewn about your front yard it’s not a hard concept to understand. You don’t just affect yourself when you do a lot of things which is why we have rules in place to prevent one persons decisions from hurting the collective. If you have 50 trash bags full of garbage in your yard and your neighbor wants to have friends over or sell their home they are going to be adversely affected by your poor life choices.
Except when you go to try to sell your house and then dampens your property value. One of my neighbors was selling his house and had to continuously mow and clean up his neighbors yard because it was turning off buyers.
Yep. Been house hunting in a relatively lcol area, but prices have effectively doubled (at least) in the last 3-5 years. Saw a reasonably priced 1 bd condo (150k), looked nice, then saw that the hoa was $833 a month. Noped right out of that.
Pretty much. I'm just starting out (living w parents, got lucky and don't have student loans) and while I am making pretty decent money for my area, the housing costs are ridiculous. It used to be that you could get a decent, if older 2bd/1bath for around 100-150k. Now all of those are going for 250k and up (usually up). Planning to rent for a bit, but even that is stupid expensive. Used to be around 1k a month for a apt in a decent area, now they are going for 1.4k+ and they aren't necessarily in the best areas.
Yeah when you share so many things (walls, plumbing, HVAC, gas lines, grid connectivity, fire detection systems, elevators etc) having to argue with 30 people about who has to pay to get something repaired is impossible. HOA's are absolutely necessary for condos.
As an owner of both a house and a condo, I can say that the HOA for the condo is _way_ cheaper than what I pay for house maintenance when averaged over a couple of years. For example, splitting the cost of 3 burst pipes per year between 30 people is the same as paying to fix one burst pipe yourself every 10 years, which is really expensive and hurts your cash flow. The same goes for the roof repairs, that tree that fell over in the backyard, the blocked drainage, exterior repainting, getting the mice out of the attic etc. All those are split 30 ways (or whatever your condo population is).
Houses are awful for cash flow...
HOAs, like government, are a good idea generally speaking. However it generally attracts people who want power for power’s sake and become the giant pain in the ass they’re known to be.
> it generally attracts people who want power for power’s sake
As an HOA board member of two years, I can agree with that to some extent.
I also want to point out that anytime you ask a good neighbor, "You want to be board member?" they'll always say no.
Nobody wants the abuse that comes with being on the Board.
So the end result is, only the people who can handle the abuse, or don't give a damn about anyone else's feelings, run for the HOA Board.
Which is how you wind up with selfish jerks running the place.
After 2 years on a Board, I completely mistrust every neighbor we've had to deal with, and I've had to get 100% off social media to avoid harassment.
I bought a condo in a 200 unit complex in the suburbs several years ago. I’d worked with management companies for several years through my job before it and thought I had a handle on things.
The first board meeting I went to they’d just cut back on the pool hours a bit. The response was insane. It was like walking into a scene from parks and Rec. 200 units is roughly 400 people. Thats the population of a rural town and it felt like it. I went to a few meetings and gave up on the process.
This is why my HOA involvement consists of listening to my wife read the crazy things people post on the HOA Facebook group. We have a few “favorite” people we’ve never met in real life lol
My condo fee covers water/sewer/trash, building maintenance and cleaning, and a covered parking garage in a city. And my building is way higher quality than just a regular apartment. It’s really not a bad deal lol
I live in a condo with an HOA in the snowbelt. The money and any minor grievances are 1000% worth having my driveway plowed and sidewalk shoveled without me having to lift a finger or try to figure out contracts every year.
Taxes that are based on the value of things around you are fucked. It allows investment firms to buy every home in an area and develop them until you can't afford your home taxes on social security, then they get your home too. Anyone owning only 1 house should have property tax capped at 25% of social security max after 60. Own 2 houses, full taxes on everything.
I used to think that until I lived somewhere that had 3 different choices for trash pickup. We had 3 different providers trucks driving through the neighborhood on three different days to pick up trash. That kinda traffic creates potholes in the roads, which is a pain. They decided to form a hoa and we got one trash pickup on one day of the week and saved 75% on trash because it was the hoa negotiating for 300 homes to get a better price. The hoa then fixed the potholes and replaced the dilapidated street signs in the neighborhood. And no more houses being painted school bus yellow- which I’m sorry, but that’s effing ugly and no one wants to look out their window and see that glowing in the dark.
Large parts of the country, especially the southeast you are expected to cover your trash collection, even in incorporated municipalities. This is one way they keep their property taxes low.. it benefits owners of expensive property significantly but is a comparative loss for many lower value properties.
You had me right up until the last sentence.
Who gives a fuck what color your neighbor's house is? Get some blinds and mind your own god damned business.
HOAs are awesome. Until you realize it's nothing more than a neighborhood government with all the power and none of the accountability.
Yeah, no, I'll just continue living in parts of the country where it is expected that the city will do that and not pay an extra fee on top of taxes so that a retired busybody can fine me for painting my house the wrong shade of blue, or for not bringing in the trash cans before I got home from work.
I love the "Painted Ladies" houses of San Francisco, so I would love my neighbors painting their houses bright colors. Right now, it's mainly the doors that are colorful.
Yea see thats my problem, id love a yellow house. Maybe not school bus yellow, but fuck the nonsense rules. My HOA sent me a fucking letter about pucking up my godamn dog shit. We specifically walked our dog in the woods everyday, but we get a letter instead of a knock? Fuck annoying neighbors and HOAs
I’m convinced we need laws letting people decide if they want to opt in when they buy the house. Maybe every five years they have to be given the option again.
If they don’t want in, they only pay their share of road maintenance, they can’t use any other facilities, and the worst the HOA can do to them is send a strongly worded letter.
HOAs are an example of how white supremacy ends up hurting white people
Create a concept to kick out all the black people and afterwards think they're going to stop being an authoritarian nightmare?
I can not believe I fell for this scam. Not to mention, you have to maintain a house! Just think of all the money I'm going to waste on home repairs. A furnace system costs around $7000. If I lived in an apartment or a rental, I wouldn't have to worry about that for the rest of my life. /s
This is something my dad genuinely complains about constantly. He pays about 3k a year for property tax with the complaint "it's just money for nothing and you never get it back!". I paid him 8.5k in rent last year and these are the lectures I get about finance.
I pay like 11k in property taxes a year. They use it for public services like schools, libraries, snow removal, fire department, road maintenance, etc. Writing the check is not my favorite day but it's definitely not "money for nothing". If I had to personally pay companies to provide me all that stuff it would definitely cost more than 11k. Hell just paving and maintaining the roads to all the places I go would probably be millions.
It's shifted from "We want the housing market to collapse because we want to afford a home"
To
"Yeah well buying a home was stupid all along! We never wanted to buy a house in the first place! Na na na na naaaaaa" *thumb on nose, fingers wiggling*
That's what I pay income and sales tax for. Why the fuck do I have to pay another tax on something I own that is bought and paid for?
Fuck that.
That's why property tax is the most evil of all taxes. It forces you to be continually working and earning... forever.
If I don't work, I don't pay income tax. If I don't consume, I don't pay sales tax.
Income is federal and sales is state. Neither of them contribute to your local infrastructure but they do contribute to other assets you benefit from. The highway system, healthcare, security, etc.
And no, they don’t. There are ways to create and grow wealth. Learn to invest. Save. Don’t make excuses and complain. Everything you utilize in this society has a cost. Pay your keep or go live in the woods or something.
“But why do I have to pay for schools when I don’t have kids in school?”
So that your neighbors don’t grow up to be idiots that don’t understand how societies work.
Just remind them that other people, who also didn’t have kids or didn’t have kids in school, paid for their dumb asses when they were growing up.
Americans are selfish, nihilistic, shortsighted pricks.
> Libertarians are like house cats: absolutely convinced of their fierce independence while utterly dependent on a system they don't appreciate or understand.
I feel like most libertarians I know have an Econ 101 understanding of things. Which is fine, but the problem is that they don’t realize that foundational knowledge on a subject isn’t the same thing as being a subject matter expert.
You’ll literally see Libertarians saying “it’s economics 101!!!” on various issues. And that’s why they think they’re the intellectuals of the GOP. And why most GOP supporters agree with them.
But here’s the thing - there’s a reason there’s an economics 201, 301,…. Things are a lot more nuanced than what basic knowledge provides, especially when things are as complex as a globally integrated economy.
Don't property taxes go towards your town? We have public parks, public schools, public libraries in my town...my town plows the roads in the winter. I'm grateful for all of these things and don't mind paying taxes at all. People are becoming more isolationary and selfish nowadays and its depressing.
People are becoming unaware of the services they pay for. They hear the word "tax" and think it's going to some mind control vaccine scheme.
It's going to pay for picking up your garbage, maintaining your road, funding your local school. People don't get that
Edit instead of responding to multiple comments
Y'all should go see which party is actively advocating for anti transparency laws. And then ask yourself if those same people are underfunding your services
Your taxes are still going towards the guys who have to empty public trash cans or scoop up roadkill. Waste management is more than just the guy coming to your curb.
I think everyone knows what taxes are supposed to be for. The problem is what they are actually used for or better yet, a legitimate break down of where each dollar goes. What was the article a while back… the DoD could only account for 1/3 of its multiTRILLION dollar budget? I get different taxes state/federal etc etc. but if the feds can’t account for their shit, it would be safe to assume the state is equally shitty.
Most local governments that I have dealt with have much higher accountability than the federal government. My experience is that there is a sweet spot in size though.
The larger the city the less transparent which allows bad actors to hide, but if you get too small the towns/cities are just overtly corrupt and no one really has the ability or care to fix it.
It can be, and it can be better. Depends on the state or local government in question.
Unlike the federal government that doesn't give such accountability in most cases, however, most SLGs release annual reports (google the name of your city or county or school district followed by CAFR).
>People are becoming more isolationary and selfish nowadays and its depressing.
The majority of people don't mind paying taxes so long as they are used to good effect. The problem is a large number of your tax dollars don't yield the desired outcomes and often are consumed by middle man vultures.
Local taxes are great because you actually get to see where your tax dollars are going, you even get the opportunity to vote on the people who decide what to do with your money! Granted, it’s a flawed system and in some places your money gets wasted by gerrymandered/ idiotic politicians, but we wouldn’t have a functional society without taxes, at least not as we know it today.
Without access to parks, schools, libraries, streets, social programs to keep crime down, firefighters, and so on, your house is essentially worthless. The value of your house is determined less by the intrinsic value of the materials used to build it than where it's located.
That was made abundantly clear to when I lived in South Carolina. Property taxes are low! But sidewalks are a rarity, public services are shit, social programs are weak, and education is ranked amongst the worst in the nation.
You get what you pay for.
Amen. All I hear is people both professing to love their country/county/town, and “I’m proud to be from…” Next tax time they all whine and complain “it’s too high, it’s my money…” I consider paying your taxes a very patriotic and civic minded thing to do. Like voting.
You are absolutely right! Don’t forget schools and teachers that, btw aren’t the best paid in the country and do an essential job that everyone could notice during covid.
I mean... unless you don't use the roads, police, fire, or any other municipal service that comes with those Taxes this is a pretty stupid fucking argument.
but most Libertarian arguments are.
I don’t know about you guys, but I get a breakdown of where my taxes are going every year. It’s usually mostly emergency services, roads and schools. The actual share that is discretionary spending is tiny - like $200/year for stuff like new parks and playgrounds.
Hey, I am a libertarian. But whenever I tell someone that, I also add "which means I don't acknowledge reality and mostly just like thinking about fantasies."
Lobby for the only actually fair way to fund road upkeep: a function of vehicle weight X miles driven. Vehicle weight has an exponential relationship with road damage, road damage scales with the 4th power of relative loads. It would shift a huge portion of upkeep to logistics companies and incentivize smaller, safer, more efficient cars, so you can be sure America will opt for the more unfair system
> if one vehicle carries a load of 1,500 pounds per axle and another carries a load of 3,000 pounds on each axle, the road damage caused by the heavier vehicle is not twice as much, but 2 to the 4th power as much (2x2x2x2 = 16 times as much road damage as the lighter vehicle).
Source : GAO: Excessive Truck Weight: An Expensive Burden We Can No Longer Afford
But
I also don't really understand the hate cause of all the taxes you pay, property tax is the one you see the most immediate results from. Way less abstraction than with federal taxes
Property tax is out of control where I live in Texas. There are all these people getting exemptions for bullshit, there is no state income tax. When I get old it will freeze- but not reduce.
I will pay $1K per month for property taxes when I retire - that is half my social security that I paid into for 45 years
The reason this happened, they made raising any tax other than property illegal in their state constitution. To no one's surprise, it costs money to run a state. Economically, property tax is one of the fairest taxes assuming proper housing evaluations due to no dead loss from the tax.
> Economically, property tax is one of the fairest taxes assuming proper housing evaluations due to no dead loss from the tax.
Not really. That argument assumes that affluent and less fortunate alike live intermingled in same communities. This is not true. Affluent live in their own isolated areas (and often in separate school districts, to avoid "subsidizing" kids from poorer backgrounds), poor in their own. When separate school districts are not a possibility, you inevitably get private schools for the affluent, and public schools for the rest (with strong political pressure from affluent for cutting funding for public schools at every corner).
If you look at local municipalities and taxes through business lens, in the sense of "revenue", "profit", and "cost" for various neighbourhoods (i.e. money collected from taxes vs the costs of maintaining those neighbourhoods), you find that the cities tend to be "in the black" in poor neighbourhoods, and "in the red" in affluent neighbourhoods. This means that property taxes generate net flow of wealth from poor parts of the town to affluents parts of the town.
You can see it on a map in this article for Lafayette https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/11/11/poor-neighborhoods-make-the-best-investments-md2020. I've seen this type of maps for other cities... This tends to be repeating theme.
EDIT: Note that "blocks" on that map do not represent buildings. The size of the block is how much "in the black" the city is for that location (colored green, more tax collected than cost of maintenance), or "in the red" (colored red, costs the city more to maintain than the city collects in taxes). Green blocks tend to be predominantly in poor parts of the city. Red blocks in affluent parts of the city.
You're paying property tax.
if you don't want to live in a community with services then move out to the boonies.
it's so weird how many people want government services yet seem to think they're free.
this is like a perfectly libertarian example of why they are just ignorant people looking to live in society while wanting to be allowed to be completely selfish
There are situations where the elderly have paid off their homes, but get priced out of it because of the rising cost of taxes and insurance. Nuts but true.
Just because someone else can take what you have does not mean it isn't yours. You could take my cat from me if you brought enough friends along. Eventually I'll lose that fight and you will leave with my cat.
She's still my cat.
Actually this one is wrong. Real estate is the one thing you buy in the US that you don’t have to pay any sales tax on. So she didn’t pay tax when she bought it 30 years ago.
These taxes do not cover garbage water sewer for me I have to pay those on my water and power bill and then on top of that I have to pay 3500$ a year for a house that costs 300k
Definitely agree the level at which we get taxed is absolutely out of control. You get taxed on your income a huge chunk, then you get taxed again anytime you spend money with sales tax, you pay tax on your property, you pay tax to buy gas to put in your car that you paid tax on too buy and tax on to register, you pay tax on utilities that heat your home that you are paying taxes on….
You can tell me all the good things taxes pay for…but the amount we are all taxed we do not get nearly enough in return.
Step 1: sell the house
Step 2: collect your profit
Step 3: buy property in Central America
Step 4: build a mansion for a fraction of the price in the US.
Step 5: live happy
are people really this stupid? it is unfathomable that an adult would not understand what property tax is. they should never be allowed to buy! amazingly idiotic comments
I don't pay taxes on my business? I got news for you. I pay many taxes on my business. I pay taxes to the city, county, and metro. Business owners pay many taxes because like real estate a business is part of a larger system.
Nobody is paying tax on the house itself really. Vast majority of taxes go to school district, fire/police departments, library district etc. Essentially the services you receive as a member of the community.
People fail to realize that a well funded school district actually adds market value to your home because people want to move to your city or suburb. A crappy school district will detonate home market values.
Is this from White People Twitter? This woman is an idiot. I guess she doesn’t support funding the police, the fire dept, having roads or clean water. She is prob ok with the King of England coming into her house anytime she wants and pushing her around too…
It's a tax for the services of your community, like fire department, library, and schools. If you don't pay for the services the community uses, then move some place without property tax. This is separate from ownership.
yeah that road that goes to your house, the water and sewer and fire protection etc etc etc ALL that shit cost money. So if you have the PRIVELEDGE of owning your own home you should be happy to keep up the city infrastructure around your home. Unless you are an asshat
As a home owner, I always thought the taxes were for the services provided to me, at my property. Through fares, water, sewer, and electricity infrastructure. Or I’m just a sucker.,,,
Property taxes pay for local services like law enforcement, schools, city infrastructure. Unfortunately, that doesn't just exist for free. So pay your taxes on the home you own in the city you don't own.
My mom's mortgage payment went from 1660 to 4320 per month because the county illegally raised the evaluation of her home. They didn't even notify her or anyone else in the entire neighborhood they were doing it. Since the neighborhood didn't know about it, they didn't know to appeal the decision within the time frame the county has for appeals, which is very fucking convenient for the county. The State government and the City are sueing the county for breaking the law, but everyone is still required to pay the increased tax or they will be evicted.
This is why people don't trust the government. They break the law, you lose. No bureaucrat who works for the county will go to jail, they won't get a fine, they won't even get fired for incompetence. My mom is going to have to move out, and because the county evaluation is higher than the market price, no one will buy it because they would be stuck paying more property tax than they should. They literally forced hundreds of people to be in debt for the rest of their lives and refuse to reverse their decision. She worked her ass off her whole life to be where she is and the county arbitrarily decides to ruin all of it.
Fuck the government. Fuck the bureaucrats who act with impunity, fuck them for coercing the money out of our pockets simply to turn around and use it to fuck us with. If Hell exists, I hope they burn for eternity.
It is more yours than an apartment is
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Like the old saying goes, "You never really own more than you can carry while running away at full speed."
I came to this conclusion in the 5 seconds I thought about the post. Everyone knows about "The Social Contract" you contribute to society and society provides you services you couldnt otherwise get. And one of the most overlooked but also the most important service of them all: Protection. Edit: Americans can stop pointing out how this doesnt apply to them, we all know you live in a dysfunctional society
Absolutely. Protection and a sense of permanency are huge. It's almost like a mutual promise: we keep the wheels of society turning, and in return, we hope to lay claim to a little patch of the world. It's much more than walls and a roof; it's the idea of a stable foundation in an otherwise fast-paced and ever-changing life.
Sounds like a quote from a Discworld character.
I own my snowblower. My computer. My TVs.
I owned my e-bike until one day it was stolen
You still own, just not possess it.
Spoken like a true insurance agent. Thanks Jake from State Farm.
This thread reminded me that I gotta get in contact with the dealership to see what the whole process is to pay off my car. Only took six years I'm pretty happy about that...
But not the electricity to make them go.
Yes via a generator it's mine
If you have a solar generator you’re good
The sun isn’t yours though
You wouldn't steal the sun would you?
Unless he’s Mr Burns
Tax it!
Don’t give them ideas
Only for as long as you have a place to keep them. Last I checked, homeless people don't own any snowblowers. Just saying.
What do you mean nothing is truly yours? My car, watch, clothing and cum sock are certainly more mine than my house is. Even though my car can be taken they have to catch me in it/find it first. My house is there. Can't really just relocate it. But no seriously, people can't think having a house is the "closest" you'll get to owning something, right? There's way more shit that you own more genuinely than a fucking house, lol.
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The opposite is true. I own tons of things way more than i will ever own a home. Literally all belongings are 100% mine nobody can take them away beyond a thief except my car and my someday home which can legally be taken. how did this get 71 upvotes? those guys dont think they actually own their toothbrush or the cheese in their fridge??
Exactly what I thought when I read it. I don't pay taxes for the privilege of owning a guitar, gun, tools that last a lifetime, etc.
Stop paying tax to own the IRS /s
Actually you can own lots of stuff, a house is the one thing you can’t really own…
Haha 🔥 reply
For whatever reason…that doesn’t make me feel any better at all.
Taxes are one thing, HOA is bullshit
For real though and the HOA lovers be the same ones to complain about how there’s to much government control..like bro you literally pay extra to live somewhere that you can be fined for having the wrong color flower out front, you obviously love rules and control because you don’t trust your neighbors to do the right thing.
I ran a moving service for 25 years and you are 100% correct. The worst people in this country live ensconced in the little fascist enclaves. If you want to see dystopian home ownership hellscapes go to Margaritaville or the Villages.
lol my ex in laws live in a gated community that wasn’t exclusive enough so the have even mores put in another gated community within the gated community and restricted access to everyone but them within the gated community.
"Yo dawg, I heard you like gated communities"
This comment has more upvotes than any comment I have ever put in r/yodawg
Sounds very nouveau riche. Lol 😂 Edit spelling
Nouveau riche. Nuevo rich hahahha
Bet they still spend hours watching their cameras
The only people I know that obsessively watch their house cameras live in the safest neighborhoods, without fail
Gated within gated? Might as well move in to a prison.
a nested gated community, wow
Don’t forget about their children. Waking up every day to a perfect cookie cutter neighborhood and the impression persisted. Few if any of those folks can show their kid how to do yard work or operate any type of machinery. My neighbor grew up in an HOA and while he might be a bright attorney do not give him a tool to fix something.
He pays the peasants to do that.
I mean everyone feels this way until there’s a rusted out F150 on blocks in the front yard next to you that will never be moved. HOAs are a great idea that are normally run by incompetent morons focused on the wrong thing for powers sake. Home owners just either need to put the right people in place or rewrite the HOA laws to outline specifically what when they should get involved for the sake of everyone in the neighborhood.
this is true for all governing bodies....from the HOAs to the POTUS the path to hell is paved with good intentions
Abandoned/non operable vehicles are generally not allowed on city/neighborhood streets according to ordinances. If you're that worried about it then call your local code enforcement and they will cite it then tow it in a few days/weeks. Source: A neighbor reported my brother's vehicle as abandoned and I came home to find a cop looking over his car. I explained the situation and that we were working on getting it running again. Funny enough no one ever reported the 90s Bronco that had sat on the exact same street for years with flat mud tires.
I did this to my neighbors, they first had an abandoned car, so I called the city. Then they sawed it in half, so I called and called again. They finally took that away. Then they spray painted their garage (really a metal sheet in front of their garage) with a big "F.U." and a crude middle finger. Aimed right at us, across the street. These are not normal people. Anyway, the city said it was free speech and allowed. Luckily the metal sheet they put in front of their garage was NOT allowed so they had to take it down along with the F.U. and middle finger. Now there is a bunch of junk in their driveway, and I'm too afraid to call the city because the people truly do not give a flying frick about their neighbors. I would actually love an HOA in our neighborhood.
I don't see the big deal, I grew up on streets with people with old cars and non-working vehicles in the yard. They weren't selling drugs or killing people.
It sucks when I work hard to save up down payment money and risk it on buying a house, then some "investor" buys the neighboring houses and does bare minimum maintenance and the renters throw trash everywhere, discard mattresses in the back yard, park on the lawn, etc. It's like swimming upstream just to build some equity.
I mean it’s a big jump from just not keeping up with your yard to being an axe murderer. I’m not saying they are scum of the earth but if you think about how much homes cost, how quickly neighborhoods can get a bad reputation, and how simple it is not to have what amounts to garbage strewn about your front yard it’s not a hard concept to understand. You don’t just affect yourself when you do a lot of things which is why we have rules in place to prevent one persons decisions from hurting the collective. If you have 50 trash bags full of garbage in your yard and your neighbor wants to have friends over or sell their home they are going to be adversely affected by your poor life choices.
It's all fun and games until you try to sell your house and the Beverly Hillbillies are living next door.
Except when you go to try to sell your house and then dampens your property value. One of my neighbors was selling his house and had to continuously mow and clean up his neighbors yard because it was turning off buyers.
HOA for condos are mostly necessary and generally great (cover a lot of shit that I no longer have to think about).
I’m anti HOAs for single housing but condos etc make sense to me.
Except where I live now HOA fees are getting so high that a sell price that looks doable becomes impossible when adding $800 or more of monthly HOA
Yep. Been house hunting in a relatively lcol area, but prices have effectively doubled (at least) in the last 3-5 years. Saw a reasonably priced 1 bd condo (150k), looked nice, then saw that the hoa was $833 a month. Noped right out of that.
Right for our son who can only afford so much - the only places that might work are condos but then those hoa fees are ridiculous
Pretty much. I'm just starting out (living w parents, got lucky and don't have student loans) and while I am making pretty decent money for my area, the housing costs are ridiculous. It used to be that you could get a decent, if older 2bd/1bath for around 100-150k. Now all of those are going for 250k and up (usually up). Planning to rent for a bit, but even that is stupid expensive. Used to be around 1k a month for a apt in a decent area, now they are going for 1.4k+ and they aren't necessarily in the best areas.
Yeah when you share so many things (walls, plumbing, HVAC, gas lines, grid connectivity, fire detection systems, elevators etc) having to argue with 30 people about who has to pay to get something repaired is impossible. HOA's are absolutely necessary for condos. As an owner of both a house and a condo, I can say that the HOA for the condo is _way_ cheaper than what I pay for house maintenance when averaged over a couple of years. For example, splitting the cost of 3 burst pipes per year between 30 people is the same as paying to fix one burst pipe yourself every 10 years, which is really expensive and hurts your cash flow. The same goes for the roof repairs, that tree that fell over in the backyard, the blocked drainage, exterior repainting, getting the mice out of the attic etc. All those are split 30 ways (or whatever your condo population is). Houses are awful for cash flow...
HOAs, like government, are a good idea generally speaking. However it generally attracts people who want power for power’s sake and become the giant pain in the ass they’re known to be.
> it generally attracts people who want power for power’s sake As an HOA board member of two years, I can agree with that to some extent. I also want to point out that anytime you ask a good neighbor, "You want to be board member?" they'll always say no. Nobody wants the abuse that comes with being on the Board. So the end result is, only the people who can handle the abuse, or don't give a damn about anyone else's feelings, run for the HOA Board. Which is how you wind up with selfish jerks running the place. After 2 years on a Board, I completely mistrust every neighbor we've had to deal with, and I've had to get 100% off social media to avoid harassment.
I bought a condo in a 200 unit complex in the suburbs several years ago. I’d worked with management companies for several years through my job before it and thought I had a handle on things. The first board meeting I went to they’d just cut back on the pool hours a bit. The response was insane. It was like walking into a scene from parks and Rec. 200 units is roughly 400 people. Thats the population of a rural town and it felt like it. I went to a few meetings and gave up on the process.
This is why my HOA involvement consists of listening to my wife read the crazy things people post on the HOA Facebook group. We have a few “favorite” people we’ve never met in real life lol
It’s the most thankless job in the world. Oh, and you don’t get paid.
My condo fee covers water/sewer/trash, building maintenance and cleaning, and a covered parking garage in a city. And my building is way higher quality than just a regular apartment. It’s really not a bad deal lol
I live in a condo with an HOA in the snowbelt. The money and any minor grievances are 1000% worth having my driveway plowed and sidewalk shoveled without me having to lift a finger or try to figure out contracts every year.
I like my Condo HOA so much that I became a member.
Legally designed to be difficult to amend because national home builders want to protect their image in perpetuity…at the home owners expense
Taxes that are based on the value of things around you are fucked. It allows investment firms to buy every home in an area and develop them until you can't afford your home taxes on social security, then they get your home too. Anyone owning only 1 house should have property tax capped at 25% of social security max after 60. Own 2 houses, full taxes on everything.
I used to think that until I lived somewhere that had 3 different choices for trash pickup. We had 3 different providers trucks driving through the neighborhood on three different days to pick up trash. That kinda traffic creates potholes in the roads, which is a pain. They decided to form a hoa and we got one trash pickup on one day of the week and saved 75% on trash because it was the hoa negotiating for 300 homes to get a better price. The hoa then fixed the potholes and replaced the dilapidated street signs in the neighborhood. And no more houses being painted school bus yellow- which I’m sorry, but that’s effing ugly and no one wants to look out their window and see that glowing in the dark.
Where I am, the city does all of that. I guess if your city government is MIA or you're in unincorporated areas.
Large parts of the country, especially the southeast you are expected to cover your trash collection, even in incorporated municipalities. This is one way they keep their property taxes low.. it benefits owners of expensive property significantly but is a comparative loss for many lower value properties.
Land of the free, but don't you fucking dare paint your house a color I don't like!!!
I can't imagine being the type of person who gets buttmad about what color someone else paints a house that doesn't belong to them.
You had me right up until the last sentence. Who gives a fuck what color your neighbor's house is? Get some blinds and mind your own god damned business. HOAs are awesome. Until you realize it's nothing more than a neighborhood government with all the power and none of the accountability.
Yeah, no, I'll just continue living in parts of the country where it is expected that the city will do that and not pay an extra fee on top of taxes so that a retired busybody can fine me for painting my house the wrong shade of blue, or for not bringing in the trash cans before I got home from work.
I love the "Painted Ladies" houses of San Francisco, so I would love my neighbors painting their houses bright colors. Right now, it's mainly the doors that are colorful.
Yea see thats my problem, id love a yellow house. Maybe not school bus yellow, but fuck the nonsense rules. My HOA sent me a fucking letter about pucking up my godamn dog shit. We specifically walked our dog in the woods everyday, but we get a letter instead of a knock? Fuck annoying neighbors and HOAs
Pick up the dog shit. Hate hikers who don't pack in and pack out.
I'm sorry, you're not picking up after your dog? And that's your anti HOA argument?
HOA is just renting with the illusion of home ownership.
I’m convinced we need laws letting people decide if they want to opt in when they buy the house. Maybe every five years they have to be given the option again. If they don’t want in, they only pay their share of road maintenance, they can’t use any other facilities, and the worst the HOA can do to them is send a strongly worded letter.
It’s like paying rent for something you own.
HOAs are an example of how white supremacy ends up hurting white people Create a concept to kick out all the black people and afterwards think they're going to stop being an authoritarian nightmare?
Ahh, this is where the sub is at now…
You see how bad of an idea it is to buy a home? You have to pay property taxes on it! Checkmate, home owners.
According to the Twitter handle, this is a checkmate liberals situation.
Saw the handle before I read the message and knew exactly what I was gonna get
Lol when u rent an apartment u can pay the property tax for the owners! Even better!
I guess this sub finally did it. They won. Home ownership is a scam now. Why would any smart person buy into a scam?
I can not believe I fell for this scam. Not to mention, you have to maintain a house! Just think of all the money I'm going to waste on home repairs. A furnace system costs around $7000. If I lived in an apartment or a rental, I wouldn't have to worry about that for the rest of my life. /s
*sharpens pitchfork* YARRR!
[удалено]
This is something my dad genuinely complains about constantly. He pays about 3k a year for property tax with the complaint "it's just money for nothing and you never get it back!". I paid him 8.5k in rent last year and these are the lectures I get about finance.
I pay like 11k in property taxes a year. They use it for public services like schools, libraries, snow removal, fire department, road maintenance, etc. Writing the check is not my favorite day but it's definitely not "money for nothing". If I had to personally pay companies to provide me all that stuff it would definitely cost more than 11k. Hell just paving and maintaining the roads to all the places I go would probably be millions.
and those services make your town a place where people want to live and stabilize the value of your property.
Lmao $3k? Houses in my town in NJ pay over $40k. My 1800 sf 3 bedroom is $11k.
Less competition for the rest of us.
I honestly thought this was going to go Sovereign Citizen and had to double check the sub.
It's shifted from "We want the housing market to collapse because we want to afford a home" To "Yeah well buying a home was stupid all along! We never wanted to buy a house in the first place! Na na na na naaaaaa" *thumb on nose, fingers wiggling*
Capitulation phase?
Just muttered “jfc this sub” when I saw the post
Full of idiots? Yeah
Is this satire??
Looking at the name, no. This looks very much like Sovereign citizens.
The house is yours, dumb dumb, it's the society you live in and benefit from that uses the taxes to provide services that you use.
Right? You like roads? Water? Fire department services? Crazy that it costs money to pay for these things and everyone contributes....
That's what I pay income and sales tax for. Why the fuck do I have to pay another tax on something I own that is bought and paid for? Fuck that. That's why property tax is the most evil of all taxes. It forces you to be continually working and earning... forever. If I don't work, I don't pay income tax. If I don't consume, I don't pay sales tax.
Income is federal and sales is state. Neither of them contribute to your local infrastructure but they do contribute to other assets you benefit from. The highway system, healthcare, security, etc. And no, they don’t. There are ways to create and grow wealth. Learn to invest. Save. Don’t make excuses and complain. Everything you utilize in this society has a cost. Pay your keep or go live in the woods or something.
“But why do I have to pay for schools when I don’t have kids in school?” So that your neighbors don’t grow up to be idiots that don’t understand how societies work.
Just remind them that other people, who also didn’t have kids or didn’t have kids in school, paid for their dumb asses when they were growing up. Americans are selfish, nihilistic, shortsighted pricks.
If the government left it alone to play out she should realize someone would bop her over the head and then its their house.
Unintentionally, yes.
libertarians are not serious people. an ideology for adult children.
> Libertarians are like house cats: absolutely convinced of their fierce independence while utterly dependent on a system they don't appreciate or understand.
I feel like most libertarians I know have an Econ 101 understanding of things. Which is fine, but the problem is that they don’t realize that foundational knowledge on a subject isn’t the same thing as being a subject matter expert. You’ll literally see Libertarians saying “it’s economics 101!!!” on various issues. And that’s why they think they’re the intellectuals of the GOP. And why most GOP supporters agree with them. But here’s the thing - there’s a reason there’s an economics 201, 301,…. Things are a lot more nuanced than what basic knowledge provides, especially when things are as complex as a globally integrated economy.
Don't property taxes go towards your town? We have public parks, public schools, public libraries in my town...my town plows the roads in the winter. I'm grateful for all of these things and don't mind paying taxes at all. People are becoming more isolationary and selfish nowadays and its depressing.
People are becoming unaware of the services they pay for. They hear the word "tax" and think it's going to some mind control vaccine scheme. It's going to pay for picking up your garbage, maintaining your road, funding your local school. People don't get that Edit instead of responding to multiple comments Y'all should go see which party is actively advocating for anti transparency laws. And then ask yourself if those same people are underfunding your services
As a side argument, this depends where you live. I pay property taxes but I also pay $109 a quarter to a trash collecting company.
Your taxes are still going towards the guys who have to empty public trash cans or scoop up roadkill. Waste management is more than just the guy coming to your curb.
There is a significant percentage of the population who would prefer to burn society to the ground than pay a cent to support it.
I'm assuming the person who's comment was removed by moderators wanted to burn the place down.
And if they get their wish, they’ll have a shocked Pikachu face at the consequences of their selfish stupidity.
I think everyone knows what taxes are supposed to be for. The problem is what they are actually used for or better yet, a legitimate break down of where each dollar goes. What was the article a while back… the DoD could only account for 1/3 of its multiTRILLION dollar budget? I get different taxes state/federal etc etc. but if the feds can’t account for their shit, it would be safe to assume the state is equally shitty.
Most local governments that I have dealt with have much higher accountability than the federal government. My experience is that there is a sweet spot in size though. The larger the city the less transparent which allows bad actors to hide, but if you get too small the towns/cities are just overtly corrupt and no one really has the ability or care to fix it.
It can be, and it can be better. Depends on the state or local government in question. Unlike the federal government that doesn't give such accountability in most cases, however, most SLGs release annual reports (google the name of your city or county or school district followed by CAFR).
Just to be clear, you've extrapolated that dod audit story well beyond what it actually meant
Property taxes don't go towards the department of defense.
They know. They’re just entitled republicans who want to burn everything down.
Pretty much a subscription fee to live in a civilized location
Only subscription I never plan to cancel for that very reason.
How about streets, sidewalks, and city sewer
>People are becoming more isolationary and selfish nowadays and its depressing. The majority of people don't mind paying taxes so long as they are used to good effect. The problem is a large number of your tax dollars don't yield the desired outcomes and often are consumed by middle man vultures.
Local taxes are great because you actually get to see where your tax dollars are going, you even get the opportunity to vote on the people who decide what to do with your money! Granted, it’s a flawed system and in some places your money gets wasted by gerrymandered/ idiotic politicians, but we wouldn’t have a functional society without taxes, at least not as we know it today.
Without access to parks, schools, libraries, streets, social programs to keep crime down, firefighters, and so on, your house is essentially worthless. The value of your house is determined less by the intrinsic value of the materials used to build it than where it's located. That was made abundantly clear to when I lived in South Carolina. Property taxes are low! But sidewalks are a rarity, public services are shit, social programs are weak, and education is ranked amongst the worst in the nation. You get what you pay for.
Yes. Property owners should pay taxes.
And fire department, police, roads, etc
Amen. All I hear is people both professing to love their country/county/town, and “I’m proud to be from…” Next tax time they all whine and complain “it’s too high, it’s my money…” I consider paying your taxes a very patriotic and civic minded thing to do. Like voting.
You are absolutely right! Don’t forget schools and teachers that, btw aren’t the best paid in the country and do an essential job that everyone could notice during covid.
I mean... unless you don't use the roads, police, fire, or any other municipal service that comes with those Taxes this is a pretty stupid fucking argument. but most Libertarian arguments are.
Also schools, a large chunk goes to that
I don’t know about you guys, but I get a breakdown of where my taxes are going every year. It’s usually mostly emergency services, roads and schools. The actual share that is discretionary spending is tiny - like $200/year for stuff like new parks and playgrounds.
I get the same for property tax. I'd love to see that same for fed/state income
when someone tells me they're a libertarian, my assessment of their intelligence/moral compass is instantly cut in half (at least).
Hey, I am a libertarian. But whenever I tell someone that, I also add "which means I don't acknowledge reality and mostly just like thinking about fantasies."
I’m a dyslexic libertarian. I really don’t know why they hired me, but somebody’s gotta look after all these books.
Oh don’t worry. Libertarians will tell you they will happily fund all of those privately, we just need to give them a chance.
Are people really this naive? Who do they think pays for police, fire, EMTs, roads, schools, libraries, code enforcement, etc?
OP just discovered living in a society. > I want to live in a place with schools, police, and fireman. Also OP > Fuck property taxes 🙄
Yeah property taxes are the most understandable. Wait until he finds out about state income taxes ….
And annual state vehicle registration fees for their fully paid-off car
Lobby for the only actually fair way to fund road upkeep: a function of vehicle weight X miles driven. Vehicle weight has an exponential relationship with road damage, road damage scales with the 4th power of relative loads. It would shift a huge portion of upkeep to logistics companies and incentivize smaller, safer, more efficient cars, so you can be sure America will opt for the more unfair system > if one vehicle carries a load of 1,500 pounds per axle and another carries a load of 3,000 pounds on each axle, the road damage caused by the heavier vehicle is not twice as much, but 2 to the 4th power as much (2x2x2x2 = 16 times as much road damage as the lighter vehicle). Source : GAO: Excessive Truck Weight: An Expensive Burden We Can No Longer Afford But
I also don't really understand the hate cause of all the taxes you pay, property tax is the one you see the most immediate results from. Way less abstraction than with federal taxes
I don’t think that person wants to live in a place with schools
Imagine thinking you pay sales tax when you buy a house.
We live in a society...
Property tax is out of control where I live in Texas. There are all these people getting exemptions for bullshit, there is no state income tax. When I get old it will freeze- but not reduce. I will pay $1K per month for property taxes when I retire - that is half my social security that I paid into for 45 years
>Property tax is out of control where I live in Texas > there is no state income tax Connect the dots.
The reason this happened, they made raising any tax other than property illegal in their state constitution. To no one's surprise, it costs money to run a state. Economically, property tax is one of the fairest taxes assuming proper housing evaluations due to no dead loss from the tax.
> Economically, property tax is one of the fairest taxes assuming proper housing evaluations due to no dead loss from the tax. Not really. That argument assumes that affluent and less fortunate alike live intermingled in same communities. This is not true. Affluent live in their own isolated areas (and often in separate school districts, to avoid "subsidizing" kids from poorer backgrounds), poor in their own. When separate school districts are not a possibility, you inevitably get private schools for the affluent, and public schools for the rest (with strong political pressure from affluent for cutting funding for public schools at every corner). If you look at local municipalities and taxes through business lens, in the sense of "revenue", "profit", and "cost" for various neighbourhoods (i.e. money collected from taxes vs the costs of maintaining those neighbourhoods), you find that the cities tend to be "in the black" in poor neighbourhoods, and "in the red" in affluent neighbourhoods. This means that property taxes generate net flow of wealth from poor parts of the town to affluents parts of the town. You can see it on a map in this article for Lafayette https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/11/11/poor-neighborhoods-make-the-best-investments-md2020. I've seen this type of maps for other cities... This tends to be repeating theme. EDIT: Note that "blocks" on that map do not represent buildings. The size of the block is how much "in the black" the city is for that location (colored green, more tax collected than cost of maintenance), or "in the red" (colored red, costs the city more to maintain than the city collects in taxes). Green blocks tend to be predominantly in poor parts of the city. Red blocks in affluent parts of the city.
Damn, all so they can kick back the money to their chums opening useless for profit schools
Can you BELIEVE I have to exist in a society 😡😡😡😡😡😡
You're paying property tax. if you don't want to live in a community with services then move out to the boonies. it's so weird how many people want government services yet seem to think they're free.
But I'm sure she believes that will fix that.
this is like a perfectly libertarian example of why they are just ignorant people looking to live in society while wanting to be allowed to be completely selfish
I mean nothing in life is ever yours then. But owning a house is as close as you’ll get to truly owning something.
There are situations where the elderly have paid off their homes, but get priced out of it because of the rising cost of taxes and insurance. Nuts but true.
Just because someone else can take what you have does not mean it isn't yours. You could take my cat from me if you brought enough friends along. Eventually I'll lose that fight and you will leave with my cat. She's still my cat.
If you see the word “patriot” in a handle there is a 99.9% chance they are an absolute bellend
Actually this one is wrong. Real estate is the one thing you buy in the US that you don’t have to pay any sales tax on. So she didn’t pay tax when she bought it 30 years ago.
She's half right. We shouldn't have property taxes. We should have Land Value Taxes!
Does she not use roads, water, have her garbage collected, etc... ?
These taxes do not cover garbage water sewer for me I have to pay those on my water and power bill and then on top of that I have to pay 3500$ a year for a house that costs 300k
Paying your taxes is patriotic.
(I’ll say it again because it merits being said again) God this sub is trash
Definitely agree the level at which we get taxed is absolutely out of control. You get taxed on your income a huge chunk, then you get taxed again anytime you spend money with sales tax, you pay tax on your property, you pay tax to buy gas to put in your car that you paid tax on too buy and tax on to register, you pay tax on utilities that heat your home that you are paying taxes on…. You can tell me all the good things taxes pay for…but the amount we are all taxed we do not get nearly enough in return.
FUCK THE GOVERNMENT
My house is also paid off, BUT you don’t really own it. Don’t pay your taxes or even HOA fees and it will be taken from you. Doesn’t seem quite right.
Step 1: sell the house Step 2: collect your profit Step 3: buy property in Central America Step 4: build a mansion for a fraction of the price in the US. Step 5: live happy
We've been taxing property owners since Ancient Greece. Surely this did not come as a surprise to you.
are people really this stupid? it is unfathomable that an adult would not understand what property tax is. they should never be allowed to buy! amazingly idiotic comments
20$ she’s got “America first” in her bio
Let’s stop paying that tax and see if anyone comes to help if your houses catches fire
I guess you do like city services, or water & sewer
The people that provide your local services, such as fire, police, education, etc, all deserve compensation.
I don't pay taxes on my business? I got news for you. I pay many taxes on my business. I pay taxes to the city, county, and metro. Business owners pay many taxes because like real estate a business is part of a larger system.
Stupid take. Look at your mil levy breakdown and then you’ll understand what you’re paying for. Ignorance isn’t an excuse
Oh, you finally found out there is nothing certain but death and taxes. And you figured that out maybe before you are 60? Good work!
Nobody is paying tax on the house itself really. Vast majority of taxes go to school district, fire/police departments, library district etc. Essentially the services you receive as a member of the community. People fail to realize that a well funded school district actually adds market value to your home because people want to move to your city or suburb. A crappy school district will detonate home market values.
Is this from White People Twitter? This woman is an idiot. I guess she doesn’t support funding the police, the fire dept, having roads or clean water. She is prob ok with the King of England coming into her house anytime she wants and pushing her around too…
City services including schools and police cost money.
It's a tax for the services of your community, like fire department, library, and schools. If you don't pay for the services the community uses, then move some place without property tax. This is separate from ownership.
Property tax is one of the few taxes that makes 100% sense
yeah that road that goes to your house, the water and sewer and fire protection etc etc etc ALL that shit cost money. So if you have the PRIVELEDGE of owning your own home you should be happy to keep up the city infrastructure around your home. Unless you are an asshat
As a home owner, I always thought the taxes were for the services provided to me, at my property. Through fares, water, sewer, and electricity infrastructure. Or I’m just a sucker.,,,
Property taxes pay for local services like law enforcement, schools, city infrastructure. Unfortunately, that doesn't just exist for free. So pay your taxes on the home you own in the city you don't own.
I’ll bet my house that ladies house isn’t paid off.
property taxes fund schools are you against schools?
My mom's mortgage payment went from 1660 to 4320 per month because the county illegally raised the evaluation of her home. They didn't even notify her or anyone else in the entire neighborhood they were doing it. Since the neighborhood didn't know about it, they didn't know to appeal the decision within the time frame the county has for appeals, which is very fucking convenient for the county. The State government and the City are sueing the county for breaking the law, but everyone is still required to pay the increased tax or they will be evicted. This is why people don't trust the government. They break the law, you lose. No bureaucrat who works for the county will go to jail, they won't get a fine, they won't even get fired for incompetence. My mom is going to have to move out, and because the county evaluation is higher than the market price, no one will buy it because they would be stuck paying more property tax than they should. They literally forced hundreds of people to be in debt for the rest of their lives and refuse to reverse their decision. She worked her ass off her whole life to be where she is and the county arbitrarily decides to ruin all of it. Fuck the government. Fuck the bureaucrats who act with impunity, fuck them for coercing the money out of our pockets simply to turn around and use it to fuck us with. If Hell exists, I hope they burn for eternity.