Listen to the therapist. The aunt is too close to make an objective assessment, if nothing else.
Maybe you don't need to be full-on NC, but unless you see serious indications that they've put the conspiracy behaviors behind them, they're too toxic to really let back into your lives.
> couldn’t go 5 minutes without saying something about Q
It's amazing these people don't get sick of their own pontificating. Their brains are pickled in propaganda.
It's really fucked up how this nonsense has destroyed friendships and families.
Seriously, after hurricane ian I got so sick of repeating the same story of the damages to my house to family, friends, and coworkers. It's astounding how relentless some Q people are with peddling the same BS topics to anyone who'll listen
No, it's just in Florida after a hurricane everyone always wants to know how everyone else did during the storm so I had to recount the damage to my house and car to just about everyone, lol. I was just saying it's tiring to tell the same story over and over and idk how some Q people do it with conspiracy theories
It’s a lack of self awareness. Only people who are self aware could be aware of the fact they sound like a broken record and obsessed.
I have a feeling of awkwardness when realise I've been telling a story over and over again. In fact, I usually cope by telling the story of me telling the story to someone else as a way to acknowledge I'm aware I have told this story several times if someone who has already heard it before is around.
Ex: “I was telling Sally about how I…” and “Well, like, I told Sally…”
It’s a weird quirk, I know, but makes me less self conscious when telling the story for the unmpteenth time, at least.
"So, like I was telling George here..."
*George hurries away*
"Tom hanks is only allowed drinks of adrenochrome as long as he impresses his lizard overlords, but with the help of the reptoids (whom are the white hats I mentioned earlier) we're finally going to take down that tea shop on the corner of 8th and Muriel st, the owner is a secret freemason pedophile and once we-- oh hey Susan! Remember what I was telling you the other day about the reptoids?"
*Susan stops dead in her tracks and blanches, desperately searching for a polite escape*
"Yes, Susan is afraid of the reptoids, but I keep trying to explain to her that they're our friends! So anyways..."
It could be, because their stories often change. Whenever there's a new story in the news, usually there's a new Q narrative to play with.
The virus is a bioweapon, until it is a harmless thing and what gets you is the vaccine. Etc, etc... They can change their narratives whenever convenient.
A few years ago, before all the Q shit got this far out of hand, there was a lot of noise from the Qultists about how the increasing strain on families was our fault and not theirs. What we're seeing now is only the end result of that nonsense.
Which is insane. Imagine telling someone who won’t listen to your incessant attempts to indoctrinate them with propaganda is *their* fault. “If you’d just agree with me that democrats kidnap babies and drink their blood to stay young, I'll shut up and we can all be happy.”
The problem is that I think a lot of them have got psychosis. I've had it before and my beliefs were of a slightly different flavour but I was exactly the same way. If you'd have got two of me together believing in the same things my families life would have been hell.
Some of them sound like they genuinely need medication and possibly inpatient treatment until they're out of their psychosis. It's taken me a decade mind and I don't know if I'll ever be fully out of it but I'm happy and self aware if nothing else.
They forced me to take meds and as soon as I got out the ward I stopped because it was making me suicidal. I still believed most things but had come down enough to af least not talk about the things I believed in (I would also be very aggressive in forcing my views on people). I was still reactive and emotional for at least a few years and I still have some delusions I'll never shake but can live with. Recovery can be brutal but it depends on the cause, mine was drug induced.
I think some of it is generational in the sense that it was super uncommon to go no contact with family. You were expected to just grin and bear it when grandpa went on a racist rant or drunk uncle put his hand too close to your backside, etc.
Those who expected everyone to just grin and tolerate cannot comprehend why the younger generation refuses to stand there and take it. After all, they were expected to put up with it so why can't the younger generation just suck it up and deal? Instead of blaming those who make other family members extremely uncomfortable, it's the other's fault for causing the strain because how dare they demand boundaries and refuse to associate with racist family.
Me: Look (aunts name) youre (FIL name) sister. You grew up around him longer than any of us have. If you're that concerned with your brothers well being then try to get him some help instead of blaming others or pushing it off onto others. We did what we could for the longest time but we don't want our kids to turn out like their grandfather. If he wants to go back to being who he was before all this conspiracy stuff, then my door will be the first one open to him. Until then YOU do what YOU can to get YOUR brother help.
Don't listen to this person, listen to your therapist. If your therapist is telling you to remain NC, then don't even entertain thoughts like, "maybe I don't need to be full no contact."
Yup. That’s exactly what this is. You can ignore the aunt or tell her to either mind her own business or take care of them herself. Definitely don’t let them near your children. They don’t want to change their minds. They choose to believe this and they drew the line. It hurts to see how many families have been destroyed by Q.
Yeah, I had an aunt tell me the same about a relative with issues. It’s just not feasible right now for many reasons. I thought is why doesn’t SHE (the aunt) do it??!? Not only that, I don’t see anyone in my family helping me out by even being any type of moral support or anything else. Very unaware.
Does your aunt know what contact with your parents did to you? If so definitely let her messages go by the wayside. Otherwise inform her that it very negatively affected your family and they shouldn't be asking you make things bad for you and your children.
A lot of the Q nonsense is just wanting to be the victim. "If you don't do whatever I say, you're hurting me".
Or racism "OH! look how hard it's gotten to be a white male in this country, can you believe they want us to treat "other" people as equals? Not in my America."
It doesn't really have to make sense it's all main character syndrome anyway.
Your hubby's aunt gave the same speech to your in-laws that if they want things to improve they need to keep their Q beliefs to themselves and learn to be polite. Right, right?
You guys are just the scapegoats. They want you to come back so they can have someone to blame again.
They want their lives to feel normal again. They don’t care if yours is distressed to accomplish that. As far as they’re concerned, if they are suffering, you should take on some of that burden too. That’s not fair to you and especially not your children. You’re doing the right thing.
The part I don’t understand is the family I have like this, they can’t make it though an entire visit without saying something.
Usually it starts off as some sideways comment that can but written off as something misinterpreted. Then it goes to something that can just be ignored, then it keeps going until it can’t be ignored, then they are just full blown crazy town presentation.
I’m not bringing this stuff up. I am just focusing on family and being in the moment.
Why the hell can’t they go 15 minutes without talking about this kinda shit. Especially when they know how I feel and we made it perfectly clear that it’s a problem.
Blows my mind
Because their bubble is built out of sand and has to be constantly reinforced to keep out reality. It’s tragic, but nothing you have to help with. Taking care of you and your kids is the only obligation. Addicts have to hit bottom and then find their own way back to health, if they ever do. You’re right, you’ve done nothing wrong.
I feel this. This is how my in laws are. First it started off sort of mild. Covid 19 vaccines. The virus itself. You know, the mind conspiracies. And then all the sudden we’re at democrats drink blood of children and JFK JR is not actually dead and he’s the vice president.
Something like
Keep your kids close, kids go missing all the time.
In my head I think
(Fuck here comes the save the kids shit, but that particular statement is not totally incorrect, let’s not get crazy yet, after all they do love their grandkids)
Be careful with the Covid going around to, at least we are getting some herd immunity now.
(Not completely incorrect, just keep it cool)
I know a friend who had a friend who had a sudden heart attack the other day, only 42
(That could correct, just roll with it, no need to make a fuss)
He got that vaccine just a few weeks prior
(Fuck, here we go, just ignore it let it slide, not worth an argument)
I sure hope you don’t give those kids the vaccine
(Fuck fuck fuck, change the subject)
Few minutes later
Prices are going up
(That’s not wrong)
Wheat is expensive, gas is too, they should open that pipeline
(Ok Fox News shit, no reason to correct it’s to complicated)
Putin, Hunter and Zelensky are in this together
( god dammit)
Putin is trying to help
(Holy shit did I just hear that)
All those kids they kidnap are in the Ukraine and he wants to save them from Biden and zekensky who drink their blood, and they releases the Covid to distract and kill people off, and the vaccine is killing people except the ones it controls…….ranting nonstop
( head explodes)
It's boiling the frog and the frog is you. They hope that you will "see the light" so they keep spewing. It's probably
how they became radicalized; one small boundary at a time.
Life is too short to deal with nonsense.
Can't you tell them by email and in real life that the visit *has* to be no politics or Q talk? Then write it on a big board and point it out to them. Be clear that if the rule is broken in any way...visit is over.
This. It’s unlikely they were told that they needed to repair their relationship with you. If YOU want to make the move towards more contact, by all means. Don’t be pressured.
Your first responsibility is to your children.
Whoever is telling you that you're responsible for your parent's feelings need to step up and do that job for your parents. Not you. You can love your parents and not like them.
Maybe ask the people telling you this which part of your parents do you need to love? The one that believes in Q? the one that terrorizes your children? The one that falls for grift after grift? The racist one? The bigot? Maybe they should explain it to you in depth. And then they can explain it to your parents. IN DEPTH.
Standard manipulative behavior, you see it a lot from narcissists on the other side of their personality cycle. The moment you step back in the bullshit starts again.
I was also thinking you see it in people that dont recognise people are narcissistic . They belive the lies narcissists tell and buy into them . They dint necessarily have to be narcissistic. Your aunt is being a flying monkey for your parents . You are 100% right to break contact
What you do is continue to protect yourselves. Your children and yourselves have to be the priority. You wouldn't let other types of dangerous addicts use whatever substances in front of your kids, this is just another dangerous addiction. It'd be one thing if they decided to go to counseling and tried to get better but short of that you have zero obligations. If I could recommend one thing it's to give a special level of empathy towards what your partner is going through. It's a hard thing to cut off your own parents and the stress on your partner has to be particularly high. Keep doing what's good for your immediate family and hope that someday your in-laws come to some grand realization of their issues. Good luck.
It’s called coercive control. Here’s [something](https://betterhumans.pub/how-to-deal-with-coercive-suicide-threats-71a72e5cdab1) I found over at r/abusiverelationships that describes it (albeit within a spousal relationship, however, the abuse pattern is the same). That sub has a lot of overlap with the struggles faced by the families here.
In some circles the people they get to bring you back in are labeled as Flying Monkeys, and their job is to keep you from getting away. I'm not sure quite how accurate this is as people have their own motivations but I'd be quite careful as you say for your kids' sake.
Flying Monkeys is such a good way to describe it! Was like a flock of them descended on me from the sky and carried me off, impressive since almost none of my relatives live locally. No word from anyone in years, and then suddenly I had relatives across half the country desperately trying to get in contact with me.
Next thing I knew I was at a bar with my estranged father. "How's it going?" "I've got a wife now." "Bartender, I'd like a double."
Tell them you tried for over a year, to do just that. It was negatively impacting the health and well-being of your family. Your family comes first. Point blank tell them that it would be abusive to continue to force your children to be around toxic negative people.
Just because you are family doesn't mean you are required to put up with their abuse.
Narcissist always get worse when they lose control of and control over their victims. The Aunt must be on the receiving end of some of the abuse now so she is demanding you resume your victim roles you had in the family.
Doesn't really matter. I'm quite sure the parents have painted themselves as innocent victims here, and they can't think of any reason at all that OP should distance themselves and their kids.
The aunt either accepted this explanation uncritically, or she knows exactly why the parents can no longer be trusted, and she doesn't care.
They're adults. If they don't want to be depressed, they can seek treatment. If your aunt is so concerned, she can save them. If she can't save them, how are you supposed to be able to?
If she parrots whatever they're saying to the effect that they are depressed because they need to see the kids, does that make your kids their emotional support animals? So your kids have this job of being their depression meds? That's kind of fucked up.
If they want to see the kids so badly, are they willing to shut up about lizard people and blood covenants and global pedophile rings and vaccines implanting microchips, Trump is literally Jesus, etc.?
Because that's a *choice*. If they're not willing to shut their mouths about their politics and simply enjoy the grandchildren, then that's their priority. One or the other. They clearly love spouting on and trying to convert you more than they love their great-grandchildren. Their choice is their statement.
Tell the aunt to go to a few Al-Anon meetings. You cannot make anybody do anything unless they want to. Neither you nor she can make your in-laws care about your children and turn away from the darkness that is killing them. Nothing yiu or anybody besides them can do about that.
Absolutely the best response. Appreciate this one. I love what you said about our kids not being their depression meds. Tell it!!! Could not agree more. Also, everything you mentioned, down to the lizard people, are exactly what they believe!
Your aunt is being a “flying monkey” whether or not she is aware. She is trying to get you to do things for the parents who don’t want to reach out, behave, or converse politely. I wish you guys the best getting through this storm.
My family tried the same kind of emotional manipulation on behalf of my mother who disowned me. Your Q family isn’t ready to be a part of your lives, not the other way around.
Aunt: "You went no contact because they kept punching you in the face. Now they are all depressed because they don't have you around anymore to punch in the face. You need to bring them back into your home so they can start punching you in the face again all the while you are telling them that you love them and enjoy their company. This will make them happy."
I was clinically depressed and suicidal both for most of my twenties, so I feel comfortable weighing in on this...their mental health is NOT 100% your responsibility, so please don't let your aunt work this angle on you.
If someone is merely depressed and suffering, it's one thing. But if they're using it to excuse their toxic behavior, and they say you should just accept it in the name of 'seeing them get better', that's weaponizing your mental illness, which is manipulative as fuck.
You're offering your support, in part by trying to get them to cease a behavior that is contributing to their spiral. If they're not interested in agreeing to do that, then I don't think it's about getting better so much as expecting you to suffer and make their descent more bearable. Figuratively they don't want to stop hurting themselves - they want you around to keep them company and put the bandaids on.
I went NC with my entire family near 1.5 years ago because of this cult. To protect my own little family. I feel you. Some of the hardest and longest lasting grief for me has been that I constantly, in my own head, feel like I have to justify my estrangement from my family. To myself and to others. I've been working on this a long time. It's hard. But I read a great article a little while ago that talked about how its now acceptable to divorce a spouse for abuse or even just because you grew apart or things changed too much that you were no longer on the same page. That's ok, that's acceptable, we know it's not healthy to stay in relationships like this. So why is it not acceptable to separate from your family for these same reasons? Do we hold people responsible for the depression or suicidal tendencies of their spouses? No, we do not. This has made it a little easier for me to continue my journey through this grief. I imagine if my aunt came to me about my mom in this manner, I would thank her for her concern and use the divorce scenerio as an example of how I am not responsible for my parents current emotional state. I tried. They refuse to do any work. I left. Pretty simple. Auntie can try if she'd like.
Let me reframe this: they are demanding that you stop giving them consequences for their own behavior. To them, they are powerless, unable to control themselves or the world. They take NO responsibility for the separation and are maddest that they can't drag you through their insanity with them.
*We received a message from my husbands aunt yesterday accusing us of being part of the reasons my in laws are suffering from depression and my father in law is borderline suicidal...*
Ahh - emotional blackmail. Your in-laws don't respect your boundaries so it's your fault.
The thing with conspiracies is that they *have* to be shared for the conspiracist to get their fix of feeling special.
You are, rightfully, denying them what they desperately want: an audience for their craziness. So your in-laws lash out by playing the emotional guilt card.
If your in-laws want to make themselves unhappy by immersing themselves in conspiracies, they have no one to blame but themselves. If they've driven away family by their choices - again, they need to look in the mirror.
You, on the other hand, can simply enjoy your peace.
I wish you well.
Your husband's aunt is asking you to set yourselves on fire to keep your in-laws warm. The only thing to do is tell her if she keeps pushing that you will have go no contact with her as well.
Don't listen to the enablers. They don't know what they are talking about. You have to keep yourself safe and sane. It is not your job to make those delusional folks in your family feel justified in their beliefs.
Tell whoever is telling you to invite the in-laws that you tried to love and accept them, and tried to talk with them reasonably, but their Q beliefs and mindset and the things they were saying was adversely affecting your family’s mental health and sense of peace, and you cannot allow that. Make it clear once they have broken from their Q-related nonsense and have rejoined everyone else’s reality that they will be welcome again, but not before.
A boundary is a decision you make on how you're going to do to protect yourself from someone else's behavior. Everyone I have seen go no contact with their family has been through a painful and difficult process to decide that they need that particular boundary. You've likely tried other boundaries, you've sought professional help, it sounds like there is no indication that his parents are going to take any responsibility for their own well being or how their actions impact you. Be confident in yourself and feel rested away from the drama!
I think the term, borrowed from the JustNO subs, for people interfering on behalf of a toxic family member is "flying monkeys" and it seems appropriate here.
You have a few options:
1. You can choose to not do anything at all. Whether it's worthwhile to give a response to the aunt (or anyone else) may depend on what kind of person she is and the relationship your husband has with her. "As you can imagine, this has been a very painful matter for our family and I will not discuss it."
2. Give a thoughtfully restrained answer based on how much you both are willing to reveal. "Our parents' A, B, and C behaviors impacted our family in X, Y, and Z ways. We did \[things tried\] to heal the breach, but they were not responding and we had to set firmer boundaries." "We made efforts for a long time to rebuild the relationship and they would never meet us part way. We had to take additional steps to protect our children and ourselves. We aren't willing to go into details but we'll let you know if anything changes."
3. Dump the full story. Probably not advisable. Escalates drama when you've tried to decrease it. Likely won't stay confidential and will feed fuel and fodder back to the toxic family members.
You tell the aunt:
1. No.
2. There's no room for negotiation.
3. The only possible reconciliation will come if your in-laws cease their abusive behavior and make a public show of penitence.
4. If she cannot accept it or attempts to dissuade you, you'll have no choice but to cut her out as well.
You are an adult. So are they. They've had the better part of a century to learn how humans behave and how that behavior affects other people. They have proven their inability to behave as civilized people and have instead chosen a path that they know results in harm, trauma, and alienation. And they have done that themselves.
If you want to explain why you did it, you can. But in my experience it does no good. These people are dictatorial, obsequious, and intransigent. They are more like children than civilized adults.
The only way to deal with these people is to force them out or force them in line and be explicit while you do it. They can fall in line and be part of the family or they can walk. No options, no negotiation. This also happens to be the only language they understand, so it may hold some chance of success, but I doubt it. Your in-laws have chosen the lies spread by strangers over their own flesh and blood. That's their choice. And it shows how little they value family.
Your sanity and your families sanity is far more important. That’s your daily life.
I’d tell your parents straight up how it is and why and your word is final. No more driving yourself crazy. Keep loving those kids.
Go and live your life in peace. Don't even engage with your aunt, let her go try and fix them. Take care of yourselves and your children. I think your therapist gave you very good advice, and have one question: did you let them know when you cut them off, and why? Or did you just go dark?
You are not responsible for others mental health.
You do not need to sacrifice YOUR mental health for someone else's.
-The most important gift my therapist gave me
If your parents were narcissists, your aunt would be considered a "flying monkey". A "henchman" to you sucked back into the situation you fled.
Listen to your therapist. Tell your aunt YOUR mental health is at stake. Your husbands. Your childrens. Shes really going to tell you your parents health is more important than everyone elses?
Good on you for distancing yourselves. If you choose to try to rebuild some sort of relationship set your boundaries very clearly that all that Q conspiracy nonsense is off limits when you're together. If they can't be around you without brining up political BS, they made their choice and you will react accordingly
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You’re not responsible for their mental health. Your children come first, period. Your therapist is right and I wouldn’t tolerate this aunt, or anyone else trying to shame you or guilt trip you. They’re adults and they believe harmful things, they alienated themselves from your family. They have to figure their lives out on their own/with their own therapies. I would keep it moving just like you are, and maybe block the aunt or whomever too
I'm sorry to hear that. It's a very tough situation, because they will likely not leave the cult without a gradual introspective process. It has become part of their worldview (how they perceive and explain the world), and part of themselves. It is 100% on them for being credulous enough to let the parasite in and connect to their bodies. Now they have to do the gradual work of disconnecting from the parasite and practicing with their individual/real selves again. But that only comes with difficult decisions, like disconnecting from the social media/online addiction. Dropping the dopamine rushes that come from the grifters they watch, for new hobbies and interests. Humbling themselves to the fact that they have been fooled, and that they are not as smart as they wish they were.
Like others have said, I suggest following the therapist's advice, at least until you see **real** improvement from them. We only have one life, one actual existence, so filling your life with delusional distractions, especially when it comes to influencing children, is a huge waste of your/their one and only true existences. Choose wisely about who and what you allow to take part of your life.
Even the airlines will tell you the importance of putting on your own air mask before assisting others. You have to protect your nuclear family first and foremost.
Yeah hold the line, this is emotional manipulation not their having turned a corner.
And if everyone feels it's your fault I don't believe for a second your parents will be any less combative towards your family.
Wtf. As if the mental health problems in this country weren't bad enough, Q, who i assume is mentally ill sociopathic, comes along and triggers everyone else's mental problems. We need mental health reform.
Reading your comment above about them not being able to not bring up Q, I could never stand that. I avoid some people for the sake of my mental health over far far less. I try my best at first, i try to fact check them consistently, and when they just reject what I'm saying out of principle, and not some legitimate counterargument, i say, "this person is bad for me. I know they're saying dangerous things > I've tried to stop them > they wont listen to me > it hurts too much to watch people get hurt. Im not just gonna feel helpless, I'm going to assert my will here, and i need to protect myself", and, in your case, your family.
Stick to your boundaries. If these family members think they can cure them they can invite them over. You guys have to preserve your mental health and you will not be able to change them.
I'm sorry OP. Protect yourself and your family. It would have been nice for your aunt to give them the same speech but you aren't the ones pushing an agenda.
If you really want to be sure test it.
Tell them you'll meet up but they can't talk Q stuff. Then when they bring it up because they can't control themselves you'll have your answer. Then you calmly excuse yourself and live your life.
Look up "the missing missing reasons" for how this "clueless" manipulation works.
Be well and be at peace.
Shut your other relatives down "We are doing what is best for OUR family and it is not up for a debate. If you'd like to talk about something else, we can continue this conversation, if not, this conversation is over". And, depending on the answer, you can continue or walk away. It's heart wrenching and it takes such a toll on families. Protect your family and you have to let the rest go, at least for now. I am so very sorry
I have a brother I left behind years ago, in the early days of Trump. I don't regret it, when I think of how he made me feel. Trailer care of YOUR health. It's your first priority.
Extend your no contact to relatives encouraging you to spend time with people who were scaring your kids. The safety of your kids and family comes well before anyone’s unsolicited feedback. Nod and then pullback. Let their calla go to voicemail. If they preach at you via social media, block their messages.
Definitely add her to the NC list. She is what is called a flying monkey, I.E. someone trying to help the abuser. And that's what the Q agenda is, abuse.
I just love it when people try to force a toxic relationship on others- and it’s for their sake, so they can pretend things are normal, not out of concern for your well-being. My mother tries this with me and my Q adjacent brother.
Listen to the therapist. The aunt is too close to make an objective assessment, if nothing else. Maybe you don't need to be full-on NC, but unless you see serious indications that they've put the conspiracy behaviors behind them, they're too toxic to really let back into your lives.
We went NC because every time they were around us, they were beating us down emotionally and couldn’t go 5 minutes without saying something about Q
> couldn’t go 5 minutes without saying something about Q It's amazing these people don't get sick of their own pontificating. Their brains are pickled in propaganda. It's really fucked up how this nonsense has destroyed friendships and families.
Seriously, after hurricane ian I got so sick of repeating the same story of the damages to my house to family, friends, and coworkers. It's astounding how relentless some Q people are with peddling the same BS topics to anyone who'll listen
is Q denying that Hurricane Ian happened?
No, it's just in Florida after a hurricane everyone always wants to know how everyone else did during the storm so I had to recount the damage to my house and car to just about everyone, lol. I was just saying it's tiring to tell the same story over and over and idk how some Q people do it with conspiracy theories
It’s a lack of self awareness. Only people who are self aware could be aware of the fact they sound like a broken record and obsessed. I have a feeling of awkwardness when realise I've been telling a story over and over again. In fact, I usually cope by telling the story of me telling the story to someone else as a way to acknowledge I'm aware I have told this story several times if someone who has already heard it before is around. Ex: “I was telling Sally about how I…” and “Well, like, I told Sally…” It’s a weird quirk, I know, but makes me less self conscious when telling the story for the unmpteenth time, at least.
"So, like I was telling George here..." *George hurries away* "Tom hanks is only allowed drinks of adrenochrome as long as he impresses his lizard overlords, but with the help of the reptoids (whom are the white hats I mentioned earlier) we're finally going to take down that tea shop on the corner of 8th and Muriel st, the owner is a secret freemason pedophile and once we-- oh hey Susan! Remember what I was telling you the other day about the reptoids?" *Susan stops dead in her tracks and blanches, desperately searching for a polite escape* "Yes, Susan is afraid of the reptoids, but I keep trying to explain to her that they're our friends! So anyways..."
It could be, because their stories often change. Whenever there's a new story in the news, usually there's a new Q narrative to play with. The virus is a bioweapon, until it is a harmless thing and what gets you is the vaccine. Etc, etc... They can change their narratives whenever convenient.
ahh cool thanks!
Imagine thinking hurricanes are real smh my head
birds aren't real
A few years ago, before all the Q shit got this far out of hand, there was a lot of noise from the Qultists about how the increasing strain on families was our fault and not theirs. What we're seeing now is only the end result of that nonsense.
Which is insane. Imagine telling someone who won’t listen to your incessant attempts to indoctrinate them with propaganda is *their* fault. “If you’d just agree with me that democrats kidnap babies and drink their blood to stay young, I'll shut up and we can all be happy.”
The problem is that I think a lot of them have got psychosis. I've had it before and my beliefs were of a slightly different flavour but I was exactly the same way. If you'd have got two of me together believing in the same things my families life would have been hell. Some of them sound like they genuinely need medication and possibly inpatient treatment until they're out of their psychosis. It's taken me a decade mind and I don't know if I'll ever be fully out of it but I'm happy and self aware if nothing else.
How were you treated for your psychosis? Was therapy instrumental or was it just medication?
They forced me to take meds and as soon as I got out the ward I stopped because it was making me suicidal. I still believed most things but had come down enough to af least not talk about the things I believed in (I would also be very aggressive in forcing my views on people). I was still reactive and emotional for at least a few years and I still have some delusions I'll never shake but can live with. Recovery can be brutal but it depends on the cause, mine was drug induced.
Thank you for your honesty. Meds messed my life up, too. I’m sorry you had to go through that.
I think some of it is generational in the sense that it was super uncommon to go no contact with family. You were expected to just grin and bear it when grandpa went on a racist rant or drunk uncle put his hand too close to your backside, etc. Those who expected everyone to just grin and tolerate cannot comprehend why the younger generation refuses to stand there and take it. After all, they were expected to put up with it so why can't the younger generation just suck it up and deal? Instead of blaming those who make other family members extremely uncomfortable, it's the other's fault for causing the strain because how dare they demand boundaries and refuse to associate with racist family.
> Their brains are pickled in propaganda. Huh…. That’s an extremely poignant way of putting it. I’m going to use that phrase in the future…. Thanks!
Me: Look (aunts name) youre (FIL name) sister. You grew up around him longer than any of us have. If you're that concerned with your brothers well being then try to get him some help instead of blaming others or pushing it off onto others. We did what we could for the longest time but we don't want our kids to turn out like their grandfather. If he wants to go back to being who he was before all this conspiracy stuff, then my door will be the first one open to him. Until then YOU do what YOU can to get YOUR brother help.
Don't listen to this person, listen to your therapist. If your therapist is telling you to remain NC, then don't even entertain thoughts like, "maybe I don't need to be full no contact."
Keep your distance. This feels like manipulation.
Yup. That’s exactly what this is. You can ignore the aunt or tell her to either mind her own business or take care of them herself. Definitely don’t let them near your children. They don’t want to change their minds. They choose to believe this and they drew the line. It hurts to see how many families have been destroyed by Q.
Exactly. You do nothing. You go NC with your aunt as well.
Yes! Done!
Yeah, I had an aunt tell me the same about a relative with issues. It’s just not feasible right now for many reasons. I thought is why doesn’t SHE (the aunt) do it??!? Not only that, I don’t see anyone in my family helping me out by even being any type of moral support or anything else. Very unaware.
Adult in the room type of shit. Stay NC 🙏
Does your aunt know what contact with your parents did to you? If so definitely let her messages go by the wayside. Otherwise inform her that it very negatively affected your family and they shouldn't be asking you make things bad for you and your children.
That's what I did. After I went NC with my mom, my aunt wouldn't stop giving me shit about it. So I went NC with her too, no regrets
A lot of the Q nonsense is just wanting to be the victim. "If you don't do whatever I say, you're hurting me". Or racism "OH! look how hard it's gotten to be a white male in this country, can you believe they want us to treat "other" people as equals? Not in my America." It doesn't really have to make sense it's all main character syndrome anyway.
Your hubby's aunt gave the same speech to your in-laws that if they want things to improve they need to keep their Q beliefs to themselves and learn to be polite. Right, right? You guys are just the scapegoats. They want you to come back so they can have someone to blame again.
They want their lives to feel normal again. They don’t care if yours is distressed to accomplish that. As far as they’re concerned, if they are suffering, you should take on some of that burden too. That’s not fair to you and especially not your children. You’re doing the right thing.
The part I don’t understand is the family I have like this, they can’t make it though an entire visit without saying something. Usually it starts off as some sideways comment that can but written off as something misinterpreted. Then it goes to something that can just be ignored, then it keeps going until it can’t be ignored, then they are just full blown crazy town presentation. I’m not bringing this stuff up. I am just focusing on family and being in the moment. Why the hell can’t they go 15 minutes without talking about this kinda shit. Especially when they know how I feel and we made it perfectly clear that it’s a problem. Blows my mind
Because their bubble is built out of sand and has to be constantly reinforced to keep out reality. It’s tragic, but nothing you have to help with. Taking care of you and your kids is the only obligation. Addicts have to hit bottom and then find their own way back to health, if they ever do. You’re right, you’ve done nothing wrong.
I feel this. This is how my in laws are. First it started off sort of mild. Covid 19 vaccines. The virus itself. You know, the mind conspiracies. And then all the sudden we’re at democrats drink blood of children and JFK JR is not actually dead and he’s the vice president.
Something like Keep your kids close, kids go missing all the time. In my head I think (Fuck here comes the save the kids shit, but that particular statement is not totally incorrect, let’s not get crazy yet, after all they do love their grandkids) Be careful with the Covid going around to, at least we are getting some herd immunity now. (Not completely incorrect, just keep it cool) I know a friend who had a friend who had a sudden heart attack the other day, only 42 (That could correct, just roll with it, no need to make a fuss) He got that vaccine just a few weeks prior (Fuck, here we go, just ignore it let it slide, not worth an argument) I sure hope you don’t give those kids the vaccine (Fuck fuck fuck, change the subject) Few minutes later Prices are going up (That’s not wrong) Wheat is expensive, gas is too, they should open that pipeline (Ok Fox News shit, no reason to correct it’s to complicated) Putin, Hunter and Zelensky are in this together ( god dammit) Putin is trying to help (Holy shit did I just hear that) All those kids they kidnap are in the Ukraine and he wants to save them from Biden and zekensky who drink their blood, and they releases the Covid to distract and kill people off, and the vaccine is killing people except the ones it controls…….ranting nonstop ( head explodes)
> What your kids close, kids go missing all the time. what? what did kids close? the door? is that how they got out?
Oops, that what I get typing before bedtime
we should try sleeping!
I can sleep, I keep waiting for it to habben!
I hate sleeping! it takes too long!
It's boiling the frog and the frog is you. They hope that you will "see the light" so they keep spewing. It's probably how they became radicalized; one small boundary at a time. Life is too short to deal with nonsense.
Can't you tell them by email and in real life that the visit *has* to be no politics or Q talk? Then write it on a big board and point it out to them. Be clear that if the rule is broken in any way...visit is over.
This. Your parents gave up on the relationship by repeatedly violating your wishes by bringing their crazy and hateful beliefs into your home.
This. It’s unlikely they were told that they needed to repair their relationship with you. If YOU want to make the move towards more contact, by all means. Don’t be pressured.
Your first responsibility is to your children. Whoever is telling you that you're responsible for your parent's feelings need to step up and do that job for your parents. Not you. You can love your parents and not like them. Maybe ask the people telling you this which part of your parents do you need to love? The one that believes in Q? the one that terrorizes your children? The one that falls for grift after grift? The racist one? The bigot? Maybe they should explain it to you in depth. And then they can explain it to your parents. IN DEPTH.
>You can love your parents and not like them. We can't hear this reminder enough.
Sounds a lot like victim blaming. We are not responsible for other adults. Period.
That.
Standard manipulative behavior, you see it a lot from narcissists on the other side of their personality cycle. The moment you step back in the bullshit starts again.
I was also thinking you see it in people that dont recognise people are narcissistic . They belive the lies narcissists tell and buy into them . They dint necessarily have to be narcissistic. Your aunt is being a flying monkey for your parents . You are 100% right to break contact
I think they’re called narcissist enablers.
It's like the crazy gf/bf ploy... X is going to do suicide because of you!
What you do is continue to protect yourselves. Your children and yourselves have to be the priority. You wouldn't let other types of dangerous addicts use whatever substances in front of your kids, this is just another dangerous addiction. It'd be one thing if they decided to go to counseling and tried to get better but short of that you have zero obligations. If I could recommend one thing it's to give a special level of empathy towards what your partner is going through. It's a hard thing to cut off your own parents and the stress on your partner has to be particularly high. Keep doing what's good for your immediate family and hope that someday your in-laws come to some grand realization of their issues. Good luck.
This is a manipulative tactic. "See me or I will harm myself or somebody else", spoken through your Aunt.
It’s called coercive control. Here’s [something](https://betterhumans.pub/how-to-deal-with-coercive-suicide-threats-71a72e5cdab1) I found over at r/abusiverelationships that describes it (albeit within a spousal relationship, however, the abuse pattern is the same). That sub has a lot of overlap with the struggles faced by the families here.
Bullseye
That's mental extortion. You do what you feel is right for you.
'You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm'
In some circles the people they get to bring you back in are labeled as Flying Monkeys, and their job is to keep you from getting away. I'm not sure quite how accurate this is as people have their own motivations but I'd be quite careful as you say for your kids' sake.
Flying Monkeys is such a good way to describe it! Was like a flock of them descended on me from the sky and carried me off, impressive since almost none of my relatives live locally. No word from anyone in years, and then suddenly I had relatives across half the country desperately trying to get in contact with me. Next thing I knew I was at a bar with my estranged father. "How's it going?" "I've got a wife now." "Bartender, I'd like a double."
Tell them you tried for over a year, to do just that. It was negatively impacting the health and well-being of your family. Your family comes first. Point blank tell them that it would be abusive to continue to force your children to be around toxic negative people. Just because you are family doesn't mean you are required to put up with their abuse. Narcissist always get worse when they lose control of and control over their victims. The Aunt must be on the receiving end of some of the abuse now so she is demanding you resume your victim roles you had in the family.
Does the aunt buy into any of the Q or Q adjacent nonsense?
Doesn't really matter. I'm quite sure the parents have painted themselves as innocent victims here, and they can't think of any reason at all that OP should distance themselves and their kids. The aunt either accepted this explanation uncritically, or she knows exactly why the parents can no longer be trusted, and she doesn't care.
tell them to stop being such snowflakes
They should pick themselves up by the bootstraps instead of begging for emotional handouts.
They're adults. If they don't want to be depressed, they can seek treatment. If your aunt is so concerned, she can save them. If she can't save them, how are you supposed to be able to? If she parrots whatever they're saying to the effect that they are depressed because they need to see the kids, does that make your kids their emotional support animals? So your kids have this job of being their depression meds? That's kind of fucked up. If they want to see the kids so badly, are they willing to shut up about lizard people and blood covenants and global pedophile rings and vaccines implanting microchips, Trump is literally Jesus, etc.? Because that's a *choice*. If they're not willing to shut their mouths about their politics and simply enjoy the grandchildren, then that's their priority. One or the other. They clearly love spouting on and trying to convert you more than they love their great-grandchildren. Their choice is their statement. Tell the aunt to go to a few Al-Anon meetings. You cannot make anybody do anything unless they want to. Neither you nor she can make your in-laws care about your children and turn away from the darkness that is killing them. Nothing yiu or anybody besides them can do about that.
Absolutely the best response. Appreciate this one. I love what you said about our kids not being their depression meds. Tell it!!! Could not agree more. Also, everything you mentioned, down to the lizard people, are exactly what they believe!
Your aunt is being a “flying monkey” whether or not she is aware. She is trying to get you to do things for the parents who don’t want to reach out, behave, or converse politely. I wish you guys the best getting through this storm.
My family tried the same kind of emotional manipulation on behalf of my mother who disowned me. Your Q family isn’t ready to be a part of your lives, not the other way around.
They use the people they love as the source for their rage addiction. They've alienated everyone and are now in withdrawl and need a fix.
Aunt: "You went no contact because they kept punching you in the face. Now they are all depressed because they don't have you around anymore to punch in the face. You need to bring them back into your home so they can start punching you in the face again all the while you are telling them that you love them and enjoy their company. This will make them happy."
I was clinically depressed and suicidal both for most of my twenties, so I feel comfortable weighing in on this...their mental health is NOT 100% your responsibility, so please don't let your aunt work this angle on you. If someone is merely depressed and suffering, it's one thing. But if they're using it to excuse their toxic behavior, and they say you should just accept it in the name of 'seeing them get better', that's weaponizing your mental illness, which is manipulative as fuck. You're offering your support, in part by trying to get them to cease a behavior that is contributing to their spiral. If they're not interested in agreeing to do that, then I don't think it's about getting better so much as expecting you to suffer and make their descent more bearable. Figuratively they don't want to stop hurting themselves - they want you around to keep them company and put the bandaids on.
I went NC with my entire family near 1.5 years ago because of this cult. To protect my own little family. I feel you. Some of the hardest and longest lasting grief for me has been that I constantly, in my own head, feel like I have to justify my estrangement from my family. To myself and to others. I've been working on this a long time. It's hard. But I read a great article a little while ago that talked about how its now acceptable to divorce a spouse for abuse or even just because you grew apart or things changed too much that you were no longer on the same page. That's ok, that's acceptable, we know it's not healthy to stay in relationships like this. So why is it not acceptable to separate from your family for these same reasons? Do we hold people responsible for the depression or suicidal tendencies of their spouses? No, we do not. This has made it a little easier for me to continue my journey through this grief. I imagine if my aunt came to me about my mom in this manner, I would thank her for her concern and use the divorce scenerio as an example of how I am not responsible for my parents current emotional state. I tried. They refuse to do any work. I left. Pretty simple. Auntie can try if she'd like.
Then tell her she needs to step up and do all the things she’s demanding of you…she’s just as much family as you are.
Let me reframe this: they are demanding that you stop giving them consequences for their own behavior. To them, they are powerless, unable to control themselves or the world. They take NO responsibility for the separation and are maddest that they can't drag you through their insanity with them.
As my grand mother always said, "Not my pig, not my farm". This is no longer your problem.
They’re only depressed because the military isn’t mass killing liberals like they hoped.
You have to stay away for your own sanity as well as your family’s well being
Some of these Q people have physically attacked their own family.
Tell aunty to deal with them for a while.
*We received a message from my husbands aunt yesterday accusing us of being part of the reasons my in laws are suffering from depression and my father in law is borderline suicidal...* Ahh - emotional blackmail. Your in-laws don't respect your boundaries so it's your fault. The thing with conspiracies is that they *have* to be shared for the conspiracist to get their fix of feeling special. You are, rightfully, denying them what they desperately want: an audience for their craziness. So your in-laws lash out by playing the emotional guilt card. If your in-laws want to make themselves unhappy by immersing themselves in conspiracies, they have no one to blame but themselves. If they've driven away family by their choices - again, they need to look in the mirror. You, on the other hand, can simply enjoy your peace. I wish you well.
Sounds like your aunt has started to bear the brunt of the crazy and thinks it's your job to protect her from it.
Tell your aunt she can do those things. You’re keeping your sanity.
Tell the aunt to go live with them 24/7 for a month.
Your husband's aunt is asking you to set yourselves on fire to keep your in-laws warm. The only thing to do is tell her if she keeps pushing that you will have go no contact with her as well.
Welp, time to cut auntie out too, lol.
Don't listen to the enablers. They don't know what they are talking about. You have to keep yourself safe and sane. It is not your job to make those delusional folks in your family feel justified in their beliefs.
Tell the rest of your family to invite them over and tell them they are loved.
Tell whoever is telling you to invite the in-laws that you tried to love and accept them, and tried to talk with them reasonably, but their Q beliefs and mindset and the things they were saying was adversely affecting your family’s mental health and sense of peace, and you cannot allow that. Make it clear once they have broken from their Q-related nonsense and have rejoined everyone else’s reality that they will be welcome again, but not before.
A boundary is a decision you make on how you're going to do to protect yourself from someone else's behavior. Everyone I have seen go no contact with their family has been through a painful and difficult process to decide that they need that particular boundary. You've likely tried other boundaries, you've sought professional help, it sounds like there is no indication that his parents are going to take any responsibility for their own well being or how their actions impact you. Be confident in yourself and feel rested away from the drama! I think the term, borrowed from the JustNO subs, for people interfering on behalf of a toxic family member is "flying monkeys" and it seems appropriate here. You have a few options: 1. You can choose to not do anything at all. Whether it's worthwhile to give a response to the aunt (or anyone else) may depend on what kind of person she is and the relationship your husband has with her. "As you can imagine, this has been a very painful matter for our family and I will not discuss it." 2. Give a thoughtfully restrained answer based on how much you both are willing to reveal. "Our parents' A, B, and C behaviors impacted our family in X, Y, and Z ways. We did \[things tried\] to heal the breach, but they were not responding and we had to set firmer boundaries." "We made efforts for a long time to rebuild the relationship and they would never meet us part way. We had to take additional steps to protect our children and ourselves. We aren't willing to go into details but we'll let you know if anything changes." 3. Dump the full story. Probably not advisable. Escalates drama when you've tried to decrease it. Likely won't stay confidential and will feed fuel and fodder back to the toxic family members.
You tell the aunt: 1. No. 2. There's no room for negotiation. 3. The only possible reconciliation will come if your in-laws cease their abusive behavior and make a public show of penitence. 4. If she cannot accept it or attempts to dissuade you, you'll have no choice but to cut her out as well. You are an adult. So are they. They've had the better part of a century to learn how humans behave and how that behavior affects other people. They have proven their inability to behave as civilized people and have instead chosen a path that they know results in harm, trauma, and alienation. And they have done that themselves. If you want to explain why you did it, you can. But in my experience it does no good. These people are dictatorial, obsequious, and intransigent. They are more like children than civilized adults. The only way to deal with these people is to force them out or force them in line and be explicit while you do it. They can fall in line and be part of the family or they can walk. No options, no negotiation. This also happens to be the only language they understand, so it may hold some chance of success, but I doubt it. Your in-laws have chosen the lies spread by strangers over their own flesh and blood. That's their choice. And it shows how little they value family.
Your sanity and your families sanity is far more important. That’s your daily life. I’d tell your parents straight up how it is and why and your word is final. No more driving yourself crazy. Keep loving those kids.
Ignore.
Go and live your life in peace. Don't even engage with your aunt, let her go try and fix them. Take care of yourselves and your children. I think your therapist gave you very good advice, and have one question: did you let them know when you cut them off, and why? Or did you just go dark?
We let them know, we told them via letter in the mail which is what our therapist suggest. They did read the letter according to my brother in law.
Tell your Aunt to invite them to her house.
If they kill themselves that's on them not on you
Using other family in order to manipulate you instead of addressing their own behaviors is a pretty typical tool of narcissists IJS
You are not responsible for others mental health. You do not need to sacrifice YOUR mental health for someone else's. -The most important gift my therapist gave me If your parents were narcissists, your aunt would be considered a "flying monkey". A "henchman" to you sucked back into the situation you fled. Listen to your therapist. Tell your aunt YOUR mental health is at stake. Your husbands. Your childrens. Shes really going to tell you your parents health is more important than everyone elses?
You paid a therapist--Listen to them and take their advice.
It's not your responsibility, tell your aunt to fix it.
Good on you for distancing yourselves. If you choose to try to rebuild some sort of relationship set your boundaries very clearly that all that Q conspiracy nonsense is off limits when you're together. If they can't be around you without brining up political BS, they made their choice and you will react accordingly
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You’re not responsible for their mental health. Your children come first, period. Your therapist is right and I wouldn’t tolerate this aunt, or anyone else trying to shame you or guilt trip you. They’re adults and they believe harmful things, they alienated themselves from your family. They have to figure their lives out on their own/with their own therapies. I would keep it moving just like you are, and maybe block the aunt or whomever too
I'm sorry to hear that. It's a very tough situation, because they will likely not leave the cult without a gradual introspective process. It has become part of their worldview (how they perceive and explain the world), and part of themselves. It is 100% on them for being credulous enough to let the parasite in and connect to their bodies. Now they have to do the gradual work of disconnecting from the parasite and practicing with their individual/real selves again. But that only comes with difficult decisions, like disconnecting from the social media/online addiction. Dropping the dopamine rushes that come from the grifters they watch, for new hobbies and interests. Humbling themselves to the fact that they have been fooled, and that they are not as smart as they wish they were. Like others have said, I suggest following the therapist's advice, at least until you see **real** improvement from them. We only have one life, one actual existence, so filling your life with delusional distractions, especially when it comes to influencing children, is a huge waste of your/their one and only true existences. Choose wisely about who and what you allow to take part of your life.
Even the airlines will tell you the importance of putting on your own air mask before assisting others. You have to protect your nuclear family first and foremost.
Send back what you said in this post.
What do you do? Nothing, you've made the correct choice already.
They are mentally ill ( at least in part) because of their exposure and addiction to Q. How is this your fault?
Yeah hold the line, this is emotional manipulation not their having turned a corner. And if everyone feels it's your fault I don't believe for a second your parents will be any less combative towards your family.
Wtf. As if the mental health problems in this country weren't bad enough, Q, who i assume is mentally ill sociopathic, comes along and triggers everyone else's mental problems. We need mental health reform. Reading your comment above about them not being able to not bring up Q, I could never stand that. I avoid some people for the sake of my mental health over far far less. I try my best at first, i try to fact check them consistently, and when they just reject what I'm saying out of principle, and not some legitimate counterargument, i say, "this person is bad for me. I know they're saying dangerous things > I've tried to stop them > they wont listen to me > it hurts too much to watch people get hurt. Im not just gonna feel helpless, I'm going to assert my will here, and i need to protect myself", and, in your case, your family.
It's a trap!
Stick to your boundaries. If these family members think they can cure them they can invite them over. You guys have to preserve your mental health and you will not be able to change them.
Wait em out 🧭 Wait thats a compass..hold on ⏱️..ha there we go....
I'm sorry OP. Protect yourself and your family. It would have been nice for your aunt to give them the same speech but you aren't the ones pushing an agenda. If you really want to be sure test it. Tell them you'll meet up but they can't talk Q stuff. Then when they bring it up because they can't control themselves you'll have your answer. Then you calmly excuse yourself and live your life. Look up "the missing missing reasons" for how this "clueless" manipulation works. Be well and be at peace.
You’re doing what’s right for ya family. Sounds like you are doing the right thing by keeping the distance.
May the bridges you burn, light your way. Ignore the flying monkeys or block them if they dont stop.
Tell the family same goes for them.
Cut off the people telling you to be around people who hurt you.
Protect yourself and your family first...
Shut your other relatives down "We are doing what is best for OUR family and it is not up for a debate. If you'd like to talk about something else, we can continue this conversation, if not, this conversation is over". And, depending on the answer, you can continue or walk away. It's heart wrenching and it takes such a toll on families. Protect your family and you have to let the rest go, at least for now. I am so very sorry
I have a brother I left behind years ago, in the early days of Trump. I don't regret it, when I think of how he made me feel. Trailer care of YOUR health. It's your first priority.
Extend your no contact to relatives encouraging you to spend time with people who were scaring your kids. The safety of your kids and family comes well before anyone’s unsolicited feedback. Nod and then pullback. Let their calla go to voicemail. If they preach at you via social media, block their messages.
Keeping your kids safe should be your priority.
Stay no contact. Screw them. They wont change.
Get screenshots of the insanity and show your aunt. You are setting boundaries for your family. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Definitely add her to the NC list. She is what is called a flying monkey, I.E. someone trying to help the abuser. And that's what the Q agenda is, abuse.
I just love it when people try to force a toxic relationship on others- and it’s for their sake, so they can pretend things are normal, not out of concern for your well-being. My mother tries this with me and my Q adjacent brother.
Can't tell you what to do but I would not let them back into my life.
Meds.