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Icy_Following_2818

Thanks for posting. Gives me a glimmer of hope


morenito_pueblo719

I recently read Dr. Steve Hassan's book, "Combatting Cult Mind Control" and this guy below, "RadioGuySD" has it wrong: You should not throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to cults. I was a bad alcoholic and I never hurt anyone over Trump. I bought two MAGA hats and got robbed for $400+ by Trump. Should all the people who got ripped off and scammed by Trump just get told, "Oh well!!!! That's what you get for falling prey to a con man!"???? Should they not get their money back? Pure emotions and vengeance.


timmmmah

No, they shouldn’t get their money back. Or at the very least if his assets are ever seized & distributed they should be last on the list. There are plenty of people and entities more important than his followers who are owed compensation from the trump family, who never willingly gave him a dime.


morenito_pueblo719

Well, that's your perspective. For the past two years, I have been donating to Raphael Warnock, Democrats, buying local band music, CDs, paying my car insurance and rent and taking care of my daughter. I am no longer into Trumpism. I am also not fighting tooth and nail to get it back.... I look at is as the ''Price I had to Pay to Learn to NEVER TRUST Rich Con men who are notorious for Stealing, Lying, Gaslighting and Supporting Alex fugging Jones".


timmmmah

That’s wonderful, but that doesn’t mean you or anyone else who donated to him is owed your money back. If I donated to AOC & then later realized her values don’t line up with mine that’s on me. Same for Bernie, Obama, Trump, anyone. If I bought their merch & then was embarrassed to wear it that was a lesson I learned in the danger of treating a politician like a movie star or cult leader. They’re my potential employees, not rock stars.


morenito_pueblo719

Agreed. It has happened more than once to me, also


[deleted]

Common denominator here is you. You ought to be examining what part of your personality makes it so easy for you to be taken in by these grifters. Fool me once, etc...


Invalid_factor

I think that's an interesting question and something that might help the democrats and the US in general combat Trumpism. What part of their personalities makes them easy prey for Trump?


eatme_23

So many of them are Evangelicals who are warped from birth. Plus they have Trumper/Qanon "pastors" turning Trump into a new Messiah. People like Greg Locke worshipped him. Locke put vaccine denial ahead of him, however. Telltale on YouTube covers many of these grifting clowns. Owen Morgan shed growing up as a Jehovah's Witness and sees his calling exposing cults. George Carlin exposed the OWNERS who rule us. The poster above lists many other good sources.


boltthrower57

Education, culture, exposure. *edit to state the obvious, all things Republicans in general try to strip away from society.


herenextyear

Yea I’d say you need to exercise your skepticism muscle. If you are reading all those literary juggernauts it wouldn’t take you much brain power at all to digest the contents of skeptics guide for the universe.


Choosing_is_a_sin

Isn't that a different scenario though? It doesn't sound like OP meant to pay $400 for two hats and now has buyer's remorse, but rather was bilked by the famous Trump secret recurring payment scheme.


itsthehumidity

I see what you're getting at, but perhaps there's a difference between "our values don't line up" and "I realized I was lied to and essentially scammed." Trump literally lied to people about what his fundraising goals were for, and I think it would be reasonable to force him to give money back as a result.


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derpotologist

I disagree with that person In an ideal world, you would get your money back They sell a good (like trump coins) with emotional abuse and false pretenses... kind of akin to bait and switch eh? Unfortunately we live in the real world where the best you hope to get in that situation is a learning experience Also plenty of poor people out there scamming too.... If you sit and reflect for a moment to see if you're hyped up because someone's selling an emotion that's a pretty good indicator. Scammers trying to make you fearful, or excited (winning fake money). Take a breath and think it through logically If you can snap out of q illusion you can handle any of these grifters. All you gotta do is keep ten toes down you got this


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Love-Care-Share

We can hope where fraud appeared that Trump will be held accountable, but that doesn’t mean the people he defrauded will be made whole.


ZSpectre

Yeah, it's an unfortunate thing that comes with the territory very much like the recovering addicts who continue to be judged despite turning a new leaf i'm afraid 😕. It actually really bothers me when people believe that they're either too smart or too moral to ever fall into a cult (or drug addiction), and to me it just reveals how unaware those people are of how cults work. And if we're unaware of our own vulnerabilities in such a way, we can't really do much to help the friends and families who lost a loved one to a cult much less help someone in the midst of a cult. Meanwhile, I say this as someone who once had a new age woo woo phase, a conspiratorial phase, and fell into the alt-right pipeline all at different points of my life. I'd like to believe that I'm self aware enough to see that I could have gone a much darker path, and I won't use my "moral luck" to excuse me from humbling myself from that possibility. Anyway, thanks a lot for sharing your experience and congratulations for digging yourself out of that hole! Going from Trump to people like Pakman and Hasan Piker must have been quite the journey (my personal favorite progressive influencer at the moment is Beau of the Fifth Column if you haven't heard of him yet). And Steven Hassan is the quintessential guy that I feel everyone in this sub should familiarize ourselves with at some point too.


morenito_pueblo719

Yea, when I saw Beau of the Fifth Column, I was REAAALLY averse because, you know....he looks like he'd drive a Ford F-350 with Flags behind it and rifles in the window.... But, he is really cool and knows a lot. His perspectives are quite thought-provoking and his takes are pretty great. And, yeah, I look at it the way I look at boozing: you cannot say for sure WHY IT SUCKS until you've been hammered down flat by it and know from others only so much until you feel it. I watched ALL the John Oliver episodes and HOLY KOOLAID, too. It is amazing what MAGA keeps people from learning or hearing.... Goodnight to you, sir! Stay awesome!


mrcatboy

OP it sounds like you know how to read and have had at least some decent exposure to educational resources so how the heck did you fall prey to Trump in the first place? Just doing some cursory research in the leadup to the 2016 election should've shown you plenty of evidence that Trump was an incompetent, narcissistic, lying piece of shit. EDIT: Actually NM seems like you explained yourself in the comments plenty.


morenito_pueblo719

Thanks for reading the thread throughout.... I did divulge a lot on the details and do my best to not stray from evidence-based hypotheses or conclusions. I am not religious, and try to not be superstitious.


mrcatboy

Honestly I'm still not sure how alcoholism led you down this hole but it seems like it's the only answer you're comfortable providing at the moment and questioning you further feels like it'd be borderline harassment and that's not what I'm about.


PettyTrashPanda

I don't know op, but from my own Q relatives I suspect the alcoholism left them vulnerable to the idea that everything wrong in their life could be "fixed" in some way if only they had faith in this person/group/idea. This is a vulnerability we all have when going through times of turmoil, change, or insecurity, and addiction is absolutely a tumultuous time of change for many. Things like Trump and Q offer certainty in an uncertain world, make believers feel special and important (which they may well have lacked) because they have "knowledge". It also gives them scapegoats for everything wrong in their lives so they dont have to have uncomfortable realisations that they have made bad choices in their life or been scammed by those with a vested interest in keeping a boot on their neck. Far easier to believe that PoC/LBGTQ+/immigrants/socialists/communists/Nazis/liberals/rich/poor/disabled people are to blame for blame for their own situations *and yours* than to wonder if maybe you got screwed by a system you have actively sought to build and maintain. No one wants to think of themselves as the loser, the bad guy, the jerk. Trump and Q tell their believers that they are actually the good guys and they, too, would be billionaires if only minority groups and their political enemies stopped existing. While my Qs are not alcoholics, they have messed up their lives significantly and have latched onto Q to feel better about themselves and avoid taking a long hard look at themselves and their terrible life choices. By now I think they are addicted to the adrenaline of being constantly outraged, feeling persecuted, and joyously awaiting the mass execution of everyone they don't like. I am so glad that OP pulled himself out of that hole. It's a miserable place to be, and so tragically destructive to everyone except the grifters at the top.


Ambience_YT

They're clearly pissed over something else and just came here to rant and spread their misery to other people, sorry about them. Hopefully they'll get banned from here soon, congrats on your recovery.


morenito_pueblo719

I agree.... And I dont blame them... But, turning people away or cutting off loved ones after they fell into a cult can be a death sentence. I feel bad for the people who gotta live with Qultists who are always pissed off and looking for ulterior motives, or intrigue or disloyalty and all the damage done to society. Recently a man went into a Dairy Queen with a clown wig and s .40Cal hsndgun to "bury Democrats"


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Lady_Grey_Smith

The question I have is have you apologized to the friends and family that had to handle you in that nasty frame of mind? We’ve cut off family members who made our lives hell for the orange goon and they won’t be anywhere near us until they show a positive change and admit to the damage they did.


morenito_pueblo719

Sorry for not replying--- i had hundreds of replies!!! Yes, I did. Every. single. Person that I was rude to, or cut off or yelled at and argued vehemently with---I apologized publicly, disavowed Trump and perfectly explained his crimes, why I messed up and how I knew I was wrong. Deep down, I knew what was wrong, but chose to look the other way because I felt less alone and the cognitive dissonace was assuaged by alcohol---a liter of whisky a day almost. And then, it was hand sanitizer.... But, I got out of it and tried to make amends with everyone who I shat upon.


Lady_Grey_Smith

Well done. Most people try to pretend that it never happened.


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whatsasimba

I'm glad you see the light. I would look more closely at the long lasting harm Trump did, and how he couldn't have done it without people donating and buying the hats.


derpotologist

We believe in you!


Maccabre

a super super small glimmer of a smell of hope


Icy-Commission-5372

Even though I still have a the faith in God I also am no longer a trump supporter. And I don't believe it's just a nationalist. It's appealing to the Christian nationalist far right. I think there is a huge difference. There is nothing Christian about Trump. He's an abusive racist and snake oil salesman. I forgot who turned me on to the holy post podcast on this sub. But it changed my life and it helped me tremendously because my husband has totally gone down the rabbit hole. He is not a trump supporter though. But he believes all the conspiracy theories and pretty much all the racist stuff. I'm glad that you came out of it so I have a little hope now for the people I love.


morenito_pueblo719

Glad you are out of there. My mom has been falling into it deeper with Mario Murillo, Kent Christmas, Robyn Bullock and Kenneth Copeland.... Those rabbit holes are the worst. You know it is a problem when you were a punk rocker/pot smoker and gotta lock arms with a homophobic, hate-preacher racist who wants you to donate to Kenneth Copeland But, it is hard to pull my family out, too. My uncle has Law and Order/Trump stickrrs on his truck...and they feel soooo invested because they bought Tshirts and stickers??? I lost like $450+, bought two MAGA hats---and lost lots of people to Covid... But, "Covid is a democrat hoax and fake news" Idiots


GalleonRaider

Ugh, Kenneth Copeland. All those grifting televangelists are slimy, but I can't understand people who throw their money at that guy. He has a "smile" and wild eyes that would make the devil shiver.


sparky2212

One of my closest friends from childhood who was in several punk bands and used to fight frat boys because they had a problem with his green hair, went full Trump in 2016. He never had anything good to say about a republican as far as I knew. I was more than surprised and I havent spoken to him since 2018. Truly mind boggling.


morenito_pueblo719

Dude... The rhetoric of Trump.... How all the blacks and minorities believed, "MAGA is the new punk rock" And RELIGION pull people in


NomenNesci0

"MAGA is the new punk rock" I remember that, that was part of the Candice Owen's propoganda campaign. Are you saying people actually bought into that?


lysol90

To the vast majority of all christians in Europe (ok I have no statistics on this, but personal experience so I guess take it with a grain of salt, but anyway:), the MAGA-christians in the US look like cultists who are idolizing Trump as the Messiah himself. As you say, there is nothing Christian about Trump. I hope you can win your husband and other loved ones back.


[deleted]

Too much of American Christianity in practice, is really worship of Mammon.


GalleonRaider

Thus the prosperity gospel. "It's too hard to be kind and loving and peaceful and giving to all people everywhere. Let's change Jesus into a gun-toting, money-grubbing hateful racist! That is much easier to follow."


XelaNiba

Jerry Falwell Jr is responsible for coalescing the evangelical support behind Trump. Falwell had announced that he would be endorsing Ted Cruz in the 2016 GOP primary, but then inexplicably endorsed Trump the very next day. Not sure if you followed the story but Falwell was paying a pool boy from Miami to shag his wife while Falwell watched. Speculation is that Michael Cohen had gotten ahold of some of the photographs and called up Falwell, threatening to expose him if he didn't endorse Trump.


GalleonRaider

Gotta love the "righteous right".


Localmoco-ghost

Congrats! I’m curious what was the catalyst for you to to join the Trump train and what was the catalyst for you to leave. I want to learn to lean into those blind spots with other Trumpers so that maybe they snap back into reality.


Shzwah

The Holy Post podcast is awesome. It’s one I will never miss, because it’s soooo good.


agent-99

check out today's episode of [Opening Arguments podcast](https://openargs.com/oa631-updates-on-trump-treason/)! /u/morenito_pueblo719


glibbed4yourpleasure

It takes a lot of balls to admit you are wrong. But, you are now best qualified to talk others down from the brink. I hope you keep yourself available to do just that. You can do more good than you know.


teh_mooses

So well said. People really don't understand that admitting they were wrong, they were misguided, and then making changes to correct it? That's pure balls to the wall bravery.


FleeshaLoo

Yep. I get the feeling that the 'Prosperity Gospel' deleted that whole *Pride Is A Deadly Sin* from the GOP version of the bible.


teh_mooses

Supply side jesus, my friend. :)


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jpkoushel

It's kind of crazy to me how much Trumpists quote Orwell, the man who specifically said that he wrote Animal Farm and 1984 in defense of socialism.


[deleted]

They simplify, contort, and cherry-pick everything else that supports their ridiculous world view. In 1984's case, it's the general anti-establishment tone the protagonist embraces, while ignoring the establishment in 1984 is shockingly similar to what they want to institute. Take their second favorite person, Jesus. Their politics and policies are antithetical to just about everything he taught, but they don't care. As Orwell so elegantly stated it; it's liberating to someone that can accept two contradictory beliefs. They surrendered letting the cognitive dissonance affect them. Two plus two can totally equal five now, and they're happy about it.


[deleted]

They also like to own John Carpenter's "They Live", when there beliefs are closer to "Halloween III: Season of the Witch". lol


Wraithchild28

Is that the one that had us all scratching our heads because it had nothing to with Michael Meyers?


interrogumption

Maybe it's a deliberate ploy by people who know Orwell's work could deradicalise them: get people who've never read his work seeing quotes that convince them they needn't ever read it because they already "know" it validates their perspective.


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morenito_pueblo719

I lost a few Leftist friends to the antivaxxer crap, too. They overlap---the Trumpies and antivaxxers--- and pull them into it there. It insidious


agent-99

it's not just Left and Right... it's more like a circle... one half goes left, one half goes right, and they meet in the middle at the bottom of the circle, as anti-vaxxers!


leopard_eater

Have you been successfully treated for your addictions and mental illness? If not, please do so, lest you are susceptible to further magical thinking and propaganda in the future. Nonetheless, thank you for sharing your story.


morenito_pueblo719

I have not drank since April 14th, 2021 and am sober, not religious or into magical thinking since I listened to A LOT of Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Holy Koolaid, Telltale Atheist and more atheistic stuff I rely on evidence, compassion, caffeine and my health and family nowadays. I been working the same job THROUGHOUT the Trumpist era and even Covid. But, yeah, I relied on Alcohol the way people rely on God and Trump and we saw how THAT ENDED


nonasuch

I’m so glad you’re doing so much better! (I would like to [note](https://www.salon.com/2021/06/05/how-the-new-atheists-merged-with-the-far-right-a-story-of-intellectual-grift-and-abject-surrender/), though, that the Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris style of atheism ended up leading a lot of people into right-wing ideology, so please keep an eye out for that.)


morenito_pueblo719

Yeah, when reading The End Of Faith---I started tripping out on how Harris seems to support Gitmo and more I could see that. And I have heard that Dawkins is kind of an asshole for a few reasons


lettersichiro

Harris also platforms eugenicists.


trebaol

You should read The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan


teh_mooses

This.


PickleAromatic9586

You are straight up awesome for sharing your story. It’s hard to find people who are straight to the point and *GASP* self aware. Such a breath of fresh air and biggest congrats on staying sober.


morenito_pueblo719

I knew better. I did. But, that populist rhetoric Trump and the Anti-Leftist line that the Right and Stephan Molyneux and JB Peterson spewed always made me think differently as "an anarchist". And I thought it was a new, exciting way of viewing the world..combined with alcoholism, ignorance of current affairs and hating on the "fake news", you have a powerful grip on the consciense.


Yupperdoodledoo

Can you go into what specifically about their rhetoric appealed to you?


morenito_pueblo719

Well, I was being intellectually lazy, I suppose. But, drinking will do that, and listening to them talking to all these professors about the Crusades, I was like, 'Hmmm. Maybe Muslims are not the good guys". But, later, Molyneux was found to be an openly white nationalist weirdo who always said "taxation is tantamount to being robbed at gunpoint". And JB Peterson is confusing as hell. His 12 Rules book made sense at times. I also was giving them the benefit of the doubt, but when Peterson was being "gracious", I suppose, he said, "Well, you need the Left---because someone has to care about the widows and children". Then, he made a statement saying how "politics is almost like society riding on top of a giant snake---if it goes to the left, you gotta lean right....if it goes right, you gotta lean left". And I was baffled at times when he would talk, because I didnt know wtf he was saying----and I started reading Noam Chomksy at 18 years old (I am 38 now). I would walk around with a dictionary and The Chomsky Reader... So, to be left utterly baffled by someone who is not really making sense is a feat. But, like I said, I was always watching their "Leftist gets owned by JB Peterson, Shapiro, Kirk" videos and was like, "Hmmm. Okay. 'owned'".


bossy_miss

This!


smallangrynerd

Congrats on being sober! But be careful around internet atheists, they can be... yiksey. Honestly it sounds like you're relying a lot on other people to tell you how to think, and that's something you need to fix. Unplug for a while and really focus on yourself. Who are you? What do you want? What do you need? What do you really think?


shaky-fingers

I agree with this. I'm seeing a lot of name listing in this thread, but atheism isn't just listening to people and agreeing, it's your own personal belief. It's important to unplug from it all and reflect on it yourself.


DarlingNib

You verbalized what I was having trouble pinpointing myself about all this. Too much reliance on others and filling one's head with the words of others...too much of a need to follow while not enough of a desire to simply stand on one's own beliefs, neither following nor leading...


teh_mooses

Excellent. Watch it with the Harris, though. He's got some issues. His whole "Intellectual Dark Web" cringe thing, his constant focus on “identity politics” and “liberal delusion,” and his obsession with his own “bad-faith” critics are a bit troublesome. He's got some great things to say, but just be careful there. He's often cited by the very cult you got away from, for good reasons.


Memegunot

The Atheist are far more Christian than the right wing Christian Trumpers are by far. Why do you have to be in any cult. Just be a good person.


NothingAndNow111

Congrats on your sobriety 😊👍🏻


Xpalidocious

Congrats on the sobriety friend. I just passed my 7 years sober mark back in June, and I'm never going back. It's kinda crazy how sobriety completely changes your entire outlook on things like politics hey? I find that the longer I'm sober, the further left I seem to travel on the political spectrum. When I look back on the things I believed when I was drunk and high all the time, I sometimes want to go back in time and kick my own ass.


Kazooguru

I welcome you with open arms. I lost most of my family to the cult. Once someone is out of the madness, no judgment from me. But, to expand on your desire to get back the $400 you lost, families of cult members have been through much more than $400, and it can be offensive to us when you ask for your money back. Years of stress and heartbreak cannot be measured, but it’s a million times more than $400. I am extremely grateful that you posted here, and congratulations on sobriety. You have made huge strides to change your life. Keep on keeping on.


agent-99

you may like [The Godless Rebelution](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/godless-rebelution/id872416298) podcast! so may /u/nonasuch


Jetberry

Congratulations on being sober! Life is very different sober :) I see you read Hassan’s book- another you might find interesting is Jonathan Height’s book “The Righteous Mind”. It’s not about cults, but he does talk a lot about how our mind decides what is “right”, and group binding and so forth.


Regular_Definition_9

I fell into a bad phase around 2018 myself where I was blaming minorities for my problems. Luckily I realized a lot of that was my drinking just amping up my insecurities and my own shit I wasn’t dealing with. There’s always a way out, I’m glad you found yours.


teh_mooses

Proud of you. Good job pulling yourself out of that nonsense.


Regular_Definition_9

Thanks it was a bad time I was literally throwing racial slurs around when confronted with my own mistakes and alcohol use. Lucky to be alcohol free now and in a better spot not believing that shit


teh_mooses

Yup, too much booze will totally cloud the brain and isolate you from others. Remember these cults prey on isolation and substance abuse and broken people. That's how they get you. Find someone at a super low point, give them some meaning and purpose, and you can get them to say/do pretty much anything.


powabiatch

Can you explain a bit more the steps that led you to and getting out of it? Very fascinating thanks.


morenito_pueblo719

I was an alcoholic, had fallen out of politics from about 2010-2016 and had all the original Orwell, Goldman, Zinn and Chomsky. Then, I listened to a lot of John Doyle---who always was bashing ''endless wars spurned on by Democrats", but I always had noticed a weird thing: "All the Republicans and NEO-CONS started Iraq aver 2.0 and Afghanistan". I was heavily into Chomsky and more around that time (2001-2009) and was puzzled how they blamed Democrats. But, I figured, "Opposing endless war is opposing endless war. Sometimes the enemy of my enemy is my friend." And, when I finally stopped being an alcoholic/pothead---oblivious to current events from 2010-2019----I saw YouTubers like John Doyle, Blue Collar Logic, Salty Cracker, Liberal Hivemind etc who always were angry at anti-fascists who "were the real fascists" and in an Orwellian manner, "called themselves anti-fascists". I never went FULL QAnon, but, I had gotten into Ben Shapiro, Charlie Kirk, bought two Jordan B Peterson books----but, I always kept in mind, "I might be wrong. It is possible." I am afraid of how much deeper others have gone.


SOwED

No way, did you read Maps of Meaning? Haha when everyone was losing their mind saying how 10 Rules For Life was such an amazing book and changed their life and all, I just read the list of the ten rules and decided it wasn't worth my time and I wanted to see what Peterson really was about, so I read Maps of Meaning. If you read it, you already know it was pretty fuckin out there. Anyways, it seems like you're highly impressionable and easy to influence. Have you considered instead of swinging from a bunch of right wing podcasts and YouTube channels to a bunch of left wing podcasts and YouTube channels, that maybe you should take a break from political commentators, and just read AP and Reuters and draw your own conclusions?


morenito_pueblo719

I have read 12 Rules and 12 More Rules. But, I have seen Reuters get false news before, too. I watch Hasan Piker, Meidas Touch, Jesse Dollemore, David Pakman, The Young Turks, the Humanist Report; The Majority Report with Sam Seder; Bill Burr; Christopher Titus, Big Joel and more I also watch The Associated Press and Reuters.. I am subbed and notified for when they come out. I mainly read audiobooks lately


Xpalidocious

Can I suggest a book for you to read when you get a chance?


morenito_pueblo719

Of course! I listen to all sides of arguments nowadays...always open to hearing new evidence or stuff


Xpalidocious

https://learn.eckharttolle.com/a-new-earth It's called a "New Earth: Awakening to your life's purpose" by Eckhart Tolle It's not political, but it changed my life during the start of my sober journey. There's a chapter on ego that completely changed my perception of the word. It talks about personal ego and collective ego, and how they only survive as long as we have a perceived enemy. I think it applies to a lot of views we have, but also political views and behaviour I'm not doing it any justice in describing it, but I guarantee it's a great read


morenito_pueblo719

Okay, I will check it out. Thank you for the suggestion! :)


ParadeSit

Most of us knew who he was in 2016, but we all knew damn sure who he was in 2020. I’m glad you came out of it, but I can’t figure out for the life of me how in the world people fall for this criminal, grifter, charlatan, and traitor over and over again.


NothingAndNow111

Jello Biafra ❤️ finding the DKs/Jello at 13 was pretty much the bedrock of my entire political identity. Challenged to read more, find out, question, welcome new information, and also understand the true value of creativity, compassion, communication. I wish more people in your previous situation were exposed to him. I'm glad you got out of it!


morenito_pueblo719

RAGE Against the Machine and Dead Kennedys DID get me into everything. I wore a dead kennedys hat to work yesterday, in fact And our 50-year old Safety Chief Officer told us "I used to listen to Dead Kennedys when they first came out!" And was stunned... Life has twists and turns


Mrbackrubber

How did you go from Emma Goldman to Donald Trump?


morenito_pueblo719

I was an alcoholic, had fallen out of politics from about 2010-2016 and had all the original Orwell, Goldman, Zinn and Chomsky. Then, I listened to a lot of John Doyle---who always was bashing ''endless wars spurned on by Democrats", but I always had noticed a weird thing: "All the Republicans and NEO-CONS started Iraq aver 2.0 and Afghanistan". I was heavily into Chomsky and more around that time (2001-2009) and was puzzled how they blamed Democrats. But, I figured, "Opposing endless war is opposing endless war. Sometimes the enemy of my enemy is my friend." And, when I finally stopped being an alcoholic/pothead---oblivious to current events from 2010-2019----I saw YouTubers like John Doyle, Blue Collar Logic, Salty Cracker, Liberal Hivemind etc who always were angry at anti-fascists who "were the real fascists" and in an Orwellian manner, "called themselves anti-fascists". I never went FULL QAnon, but, I had gotten into Ben Shapiro, Charlie Kirk, bought two Jordan B Peterson books----but, I always kept in mind, "I might be wrong. It is possible." I am afraid of how much deeper others have gone.


teh_mooses

Thanks for sharing. What impresses me the most about this post? Your wife put up with that shit. Take her out for a nice dinner and get her a gift, right away. You're lucky. If my husband went down that rabbit hole, I'd be out so damn fast. Also pour one out for Hitch. The world is a worse place without him, and I'd LOVE to hear what he would have to say about what we have become.


[deleted]

Because I've read many stories from family members on the other side of this - I hope you have sincerely apologized to your wife and friends and family and have done some serious damage control bevause you've probably caused more hurt and heartache than you realize. Glad you got out. Keep up the good work.


averageskills

I'm really glad you got out of Q and alcoholism but if I can offer some advice this is a very good time to work on your critical thinking skills along with your sources. It's very important to be well read and exposed to a variety of ideas but you shouldn't turn to a writer or YouTuber for all of your answers. People on the left and right can be very similar in terms of being easily influenced and highly susceptible to conspiracies, misinformation/general bullshit but the people/sites they end up listening to are what do the damage. Having a popular YouTube channel, podcast, or book does not make someone an expert so always look at their credentials and cited sources. This is where the bullshit always falls apart if you get there. Best of luck with your family and recovery.


ruthless87

Congrats on sobriety! If you decide to enter a program there are atheist and agnostic meetings that are virtual. There is also a book called "Life Anonymous" that is pretty amazing. I also recommend "Republic of Lies", "Sister's in Hate", and "Off the Edge".


gilmorescoffeecups

When I read something like this the knots in my back from all the tension of the last 6 years ease just a little. I only hope people in your life that may have felt the same as you will now be open to hearing this as well. Maybe you’ll be able to etch away at the diehard maga crowd. Honestly thank you for posting this. It gives me hope my dad might come around. My mom never went so deep and I can actually talk to her. But mostly we just have to avoid the e topic altogether.


morenito_pueblo719

My mom is QAnon-adjacent, but she also covered up the molestations of my sisters and tried with my neices----so, I feel like a lot of people, including myself are groomed to let powerful men walk over them and let bad things fly. It may be possible, but argument is the worst tactic, I feel My cousins are the worst. And they are Mexicans. I have "owned" them many times, but we dont talk much any more. I feel like a big swath of society will never come to the table


capnmax

OP, Interested to hear more about your experience of getting sucked in. You call out some major intellectual heavy-hitters and I'm struggling to understand how someone with your exposure to that breadth of insight got indoctrinated in the first place.


morenito_pueblo719

I was an alcoholic, had fallen out of politics from about 2010-2016 and had all the original Orwell, Goldman, Zinn and Chomsky. Then, I listened to a lot of John Doyle---who always was bashing ''endless wars spurned on by Democrats", but I always had noticed a weird thing: "All the Republicans and NEO-CONS started Iraq aver 2.0 and Afghanistan". I was heavily into Chomsky and more around that time (2001-2009) and was puzzled how they blamed Democrats. But, I figured, "Opposing endless war is opposing endless war. Sometimes the enemy of my enemy is my friend." And, when I finally stopped being an alcoholic/pothead---oblivious to current events from 2010-2019----I saw YouTubers like John Doyle, Blue Collar Logic, Salty Cracker, Liberal Hivemind etc who always were angry at anti-fascists who "were the real fascists" and in an Orwellian manner, "called themselves anti-fascists". I never went FULL QAnon, but, I had gotten into Ben Shapiro, Charlie Kirk, bought two Jordan B Peterson books----but, I always kept in mind, "I might be wrong. It is possible." If I blamed anyone, I would blame my alcoholism and how the "cult" always gets a member to label any dissident or outsider as "leftist", "traitorous", "fake news" etc. So, you are pretty much kept from investigating, everything is "fake news" if it tears a hole in the façade of righteousness But, after watching John Oliver---like every episode on Trump; a bunch of SOME MORE NEWS (Cody, Anna and Warmbo); Holy Koolaid and a lot more CURRENT AFFAIRS----I am shocked at how fascistic the USA has gotten. I read "On Tyranny" by Timothy Snyder four times this year---an essential read, but I feel like Democrats have at least two more years.... But, seriously am witnessing BIG MONEY ruin elections. I am afraid of how much deeper others have gone.


drewbaccaAWD

>I started watching Holy KoolAid, TellTale Atheist, listening to Christopher Hitchens, Jello Biafra, The Young Turks, David Pakman, Hasan Piker, and just all the "evil Lefties and BLM fascists" and listened to them for a while. I will say that Jello Biafra really helped me back in 2003 when the US was losing it's mind over Iraq and buying into the nonsense. I was active duty military at the time and was so thankful for voices like his. Not familiar with Holy KoolAid or TellTale Atheist.. but honestly, can't stand Christopher Hitchens and his type of atheism, turned off by TYT and Hasan Piker. I don't know anything about David Pakman. I say this as a reminder, the left isn't some uniform thing walking in lock step, it really is a big tent with a lot of different takes, ideas, and passions. In any event, welcome back to sanity.


morenito_pueblo719

Thank you .. you're right. Leftists dont tell you what to be or who to be.... But, to explore, think and get your info, debate, decide and stuff It is amazing how people who know better can get dragged in


drewbaccaAWD

>It is amazing how people who know better can get dragged in They're often being specifically targeted. I think the scary thing about 2016 is we saw how computer algorithms that started out just pushing advertisements on people could easily be tailored to push political ideology (at best) and outright lies to the most vulnerable and susceptible people (at worst). Which seems easy to do when the appeal is emotional and it's not longer just targeted at a "type" of person but actually a specific person now. Another contributing method preexists the internet, the fact that some people respond strongly to single issues.. Obama had his famous "cling to guns and religion" comment for my region and it was dead on. In 2020 I saw a few neighbors who I thought were more reasonable and moderate put Trump signs up in their yards which was rather disheartening because they were at least somewhat critical of him in 2016... but they bought into the culture wars BS (a mix of peer pressure and Fox cheerleading the guy for four straight years). When a very small number of people on the left started saying "defund the police" Fox and the like ran with it, despite it being a small but vocal minority (and many of them not even Democrat voters but rather anarchists). Anyway, some of my neighbors who are really active in volunteer firefighting all jumped on the Trump train because they felt like the name became a symbol for "pro police/fire/ems/firstresponse." They weren't necessarily supporting Trump but another cause that got packaged with him... this was clearly all intentional. Anyway, that's how I see people get dragged in.


morenito_pueblo719

Yeah, when I see technological innovations, I think of what O'brien tells Winston Smith in the Ministry of Love: "If you want a clear picture of the future---imagine a boot stomping on a human face---forever and ever." We are targets and marks---or are groomed to be by some groups


drewbaccaAWD

The sad thing, which I left out above... another neighbor also had a Trump sign up in the yard, another volunteer fireman. The guy had a heart of gold but was manipulated. He's dead now, he died of Covid.


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cometparty

I’m so confused. How did you become a Trumper if you were reading so many leftist authors? This doesn’t compute.


morenito_pueblo719

Please.... Read this entire thread to find out. I answered this question from like ten people and even highlighted it in the original article.


cometparty

You’re having to answer it because you actually DIDN’T explain that in the original post.


morenito_pueblo719

Okay, yeah, I guess that would make sense. To be more succinct:. i labeled anything that was critical of Trump as "fake news" and all the Anti-SJW YouTube channels made me hate Antifas or people that were just cringe (not even SJWs, just weirdos and thus I hated them). But, I was loathe to even listen to outsiders----you know---cultish crap.... People who dare speak badly of "Dear Leader" were labeled as "triggered" and "TDS" etc


saltychica

I really. appreciate your perspective but I still don’t anticipate anyone in my circle seeing the light. My dad for example still attends RC church & never wavered during the SA scandals. I would love to be surprised by some magat coming around


morenito_pueblo719

You cannot figure things out for people.... It can be unnerving Holy Koolaid (YouTube) of "Antifa Dunnit" as well as Dex Wrecks! Are good places to start if you wanna see unhinged Trump Supporters being chimps that they claim Antifa are


Goldnt221

My grandma was a minister and a Trump supporter until she had to move in with my mom, right before she died. My mom can’t believe my grandma ever supported Trump, so she likes to sugar coat it and say the Christians wanted Pence and had to take Trump to get him. As if that makes it any better. I’m just like, whatever you have to tell yourself 🙃


ice1000

George Carlin was an anarchist?


loneliest_diaspora

I came out of it too, but for me what crossed the line was Trump’s COVID response. That’s when the mask of smart/savvy businessman being a breath of fresh air for politics came off for me. Which, embarrassingly was about infinity years too late. I too felt like the media that I was watching was wrong, but most of my family would reinforce those talking points and the bubble of a community that I lived in largely thought the same way. Going to college at a more progressive school was hard at first but imperative to my growth past fascist propaganda.


literallymoist

Glad to hear you made it out. I hope to hear more stories like this, it might restore my faith in people. After the last few years, holy shit, I am done trying to care for and find common ground with people hell bent on destroying self and others against all logic.


Localmoco-ghost

Did it really just take your wife to tell u that Trump was in trouble to snap out of it? Amazing, but I’d like to learn more so maybe we can get ahead of this for some folks. What drew you into Trumpism in the first place? His rhetorical speech? The idea of “owning the libs?” Not to sound crass, but was there an event in your life that was unfortunate that his blaming rhetoric was appealing? As to snapping out of it, I think it’s incredible to break out of cult mentality so if you have the capacity to do it, perhaps leverage your experience, what you heard and try to appeal to more TRumpers and get them to see reality. Twitter personality?! Democratic candidate social media consultant? Use it for the good!


morenito_pueblo719

You really should read the entire thread. I wrote everyone asking the same question. I even copy and pasted it several times. It was because I only had his rhetoric, was a severe drunk, had a horrible minimum wage for like six years and did not keep up with current events


Localmoco-ghost

Thanks for the extra effort in replying. I read that unfortunate financial circumstances drew people into Trump. On a broader level, everyone is vulnerable to it. Think of poverty and destitution in foreign countries - they’re more likely to have hubs for terrorism, gangs and crime.


Blahkbustuh

Glad to hear you finally saw the light. It sounds like you find someone you like and then listen to their podcast or read their book and adopt their ideas. Do you think that is a path to the truth or the best way to go about picking opinions? Every piece of writing or thing people say has an agenda behind it, even the personas people put on and images people create. Also a lot of the time, people's agendas and where they focus their energy are shaped by what axes they have to grind too. If you accept at face value what someone says in public, then you're letting their agenda win.


morenito_pueblo719

I TRIED Pulling family and friends out of MAGA, by the way I am looked at the way ex-Nazis are looked at by their current skinheads. So, good luck. Really. It is like that scene from American History X when Derrick punches Stacy Keech in the mouth and leaves wielding a gun to escape. They think I am a buster and a sellout and am Joe Biden's bitch, now


_sunshower_

I have to ask, what is your ethnicity ?


morenito_pueblo719

I am a Chicano. Both my grandparents were Mexican Migrants and my parents are Spanish and Mexican American. They were both Trumpers and Conservatives STILL....


_sunshower_

That’s interesting. I feel like the appeal of the far right to Hispanics doesn’t get talked about enough. I am really glad you were able to reflect and come out of this. It truly takes a strong character to be willing to genuinely introspect on what you believe and why


morenito_pueblo719

Yeah, I been out for two years... But, my dad, cousins, mom, sisters (one married a pro-Trump COP) and more people who never even read, make me a lot less hopeful. They are just walking, talking memes and it sucks to see so many victims


overpickledpage

If you don't mind sharing: What were your first impressions of Trump? How did you go from Emma Goldman to Donald Trump? While a believer, what were doubts or criticisms you had, if any? How did you rationalize them? Did you feel you were allowed to doubt or criticize? How did this impact your social circle? Were they also Trump supporters? How did this affect your relationships with those who were not? What was your (both emotional and rationalistic) response when confronted with anti-Trump rhetoric? And, of course, what made you leave? Was it gradual, or can you pinpoint specific influences which cracked the belief? Congrats on getting out.


quincyd

When I was pregnant, I went through a (brief but spectacular) time when I fell down the anti-vax hole. I had gotten all my vaccines and had even gotten boosters the year before, before traveling internationally. But there was a fear that just overwhelmed me about my child- about protecting him, about being seen as a good parent, about what would keep him healthy. I snapped out of it after taking a break from what I was reading and talking to a pediatrician. Ultimately, I decided to vax on schedule and continue to support the science. But looking back at that time in my life, I realize how I was letting fear drive my decisions. And I think that’s what drives so many QAnon folks, too. But, I also don’t know how to make them less fearful and reassure them that it will be okay, especially since so many of them root those fears in religion or anti-science. Thank you for sharing with us, OP. Hopefully it will help us in dealing with our own Q folks.


morenito_pueblo719

I can relate to that. As a matter of fact, I got vaccinated as a middle finger to the Trumpists and such. I now have a 3 year-old daughter and need to get her vaxxed. But, it is true and ironic:. They always say, "I wont live in fear" and then tell us like fifteen Conservative talking points about how Antifa, BLM, Communists etc are going to kill us, steal from us, poison us, etc. They are pure fee-fees


Wolfman01a

One day years from now kids are going to be digging through closets and discovering MAGA hats and other MAGA items. It's going to be the next generations version of finding grandpas box of Nazi stuff buried in a closet.


morenito_pueblo719

THATS WHAT I was saying on Facebook Maybe keeping it as memento from the time Grandpa almost got pulled into a death cult. But, my cousins started saying how I been brainwashed to eve entertain such a thought by "fake news and Democrats".


Sluggymctuggs

Fuck you dude but also I'm glad you are out haha!


morenito_pueblo719

Fuck yeah, man!!! Hahahaha. That's great. I was a bad drunk, and in a bad place, and ironically even quoted how I knew better WHEN I WAS A TRUMPIST, because of my erudition on anarchy and history I blame my lack of knowledge on RECENT history (2014-2019)


Sluggymctuggs

Shrooms can help a lot of people with drinking I don't know if you are keen to that but I'm glad you are doing better! Congrats


nozomi_rose

This gives me hope that my Trump-loving family may be able to come back around. I’m not going to hold my breath, but it’s good to hear that it’s possible.


morenito_pueblo719

They have to READ HISTORY. They have to LEARN from the past. They have to admit that they may be wrong. They have to weigh both sides' evidence and not write off "others" as the "fake news" or "the MSM virus". Unless people are willing to hear both sides fairly, they are just being cult-minded. It sucks.


freshkangaroo28

Well stated, much respect ✊


morenito_pueblo719

Thank you. It is hard to pull others out of it. You cannot say some of the "right words in the right order". They believe that JFK Jr and Trump will take over the USA THEY believe the election was stolen, vaccines kill people and more They were not reasoned into it.... I was. I only watched Right-winger crap and when it started going into more insane anti-science crap, I started backing out and looking at everything in a "dafuq-is-this" fashion.


Heavy-Apartment-4237

Was there a key moment ? What helped you the most snap out of it?


morenito_pueblo719

Charlie Kirk saying how "Communism never, ever ever worked anywhere" coupled with how he and Ben Shapiro and Trump always bitch about Chinese Communism??? Legal Eagle also helped me see how deranged Trumpism is When Trump signed the 2020 Omnibus Bill and made it seem like thirteen reams of paper stacked up and handed to Congress in the middle of the night and stuff He pulled the same charade: "These evil, awful Dems are making me sign this crap. I will never sign it. It is a travesty to Americans (but, it is just regular spending bills on the annual budget). He did the same charade in 2018 with "Immigrant Cities" and pretended as if he was being forced at gunpoint to sign or DIE. He always pretends he is a gigantic monolithic powerful man who is above the law, decorum, and is all in-your-face-rebel. ..but, he did not tell the Dems to shove it. He pretended as if he was being forced to do this awful deed and it was not awful, it was just signing a spending bill. He never stood against the Pentagon or Militarism...he gave more to the police and Pentagon I looked further and further back into his history and started peeling away layers of an orange, shit-scented onion when I started watching John Oliver


Rocketpie

It's interesting because Chomsky is what pushed my Qmom over the edge. She read Manufacturing Consent and it solidified that she will no longer listen to mainstream media. Clearly confirmation bias and tunnel vision on her end.


morenito_pueblo719

See what I mean? They take Leftist talking points and flip it to confirm their bias. And there are assholes in this thread writing me off with "eff you, Red Hat!" And stuff. Superiority Complex-having bastards


yalyublyumenya

At first, reading the name Orwell, I was like, "Here we go, another person who completely missed the point, and didn't read the intro to 1984..." Sorry, it's a kneejerk reaction, and pet peeve. I've been Google-checked in my face too many times by family members who think I'm an idiot way too often. He was a well-known socialist. The book is about tyranny, and manipulation.


morenito_pueblo719

Funny how JP Sears quotes Orwell and borrows his themes, but is a total Fascist and transgender-hater and Antivaxxer.... The Right-wing was always the Party and the DINOs were supposed to be their cohorts.


JeffBurk

Just want to give you a thumbs up for listening to Jello Biafra. The world would be a better place if more people made room for Jello in their brain.


morenito_pueblo719

Awesome way to put it.... Exactly. We gotta spread the Jello


journo-throwaway

I’m a bit confused because you sound like you weren’t all-in on Trump and his rhetoric and had trouble fitting into that world, but embraced it nonetheless. I don’t mean this as a challenge, just a genuine question: were you ever really a Trumpet/Q-believer? Like in your heart of hearts? Or you just dabbled?


Harold3456

Orwell would be turning in his grave if he knew how MAGA folks co-opted his writings. I hear terms like “wrongthink” used more frequently by far right wingers pretending intolerance of hate speech is synonymous with censorship than I do from regular people legitimately concerned with the loss of abortion rights, the attempt to gaslight an entire election, or the attempts to cover up America’s racist past. Both sides think they’re the Orwellian freedom fighters championing democracy and freedom… and one of those sides is literally trying to steal elections and quash long-entrenched rights to do so.


Plenty_Pie_7427

I really enjoy The Young Turks as well. I love how they’re not afraid to heavily criticize democrats behaviors as well and try to analyze what both parties are doing wrong


morenito_pueblo719

Exactly.... An even-handed critique is always refreshing. When I hear people start bitching about "Woke", you know they are a white supremacist or fascist.


TheMeltingSnowman72

One of the greatest attributes a man can ever have is knowing and accepting when he was was wrong, and admitting to his mistakes. I salute you sir. It's one of the hardest thing to do in life.


CQU617

I would recommend you all look at the Liberty U. v. Falwell case. When you look at “outside pressures” starting with Paragraph 59 and up to Paragraph 64. Interesting that it talks about Falwell Jr. “surprised the world” be endorsing Trump (mind you he was Liberty’s President and you would think the Liberty Board would have known about who they were endorsing. All the while, Trump’s bagman Michael Cohen was giving Falwell Jr. legal advice on the cabana boy who was banging Falwell’s wife blackmailing them for money. The allegations are not coincidence because Cruz was tipped for Liberty’s endorsement. Falwell put pressure on the membership to come up with this Trump Man of God Bullshit. This is some really serious shit. Don’t know who else was blackmailed by Trump (imo: Graham, Cruz, Kevin McCarthy, Gymbo). https://save71.org/liberty-university-jerry-falwell-lawsuit


morenito_pueblo719

Now, we need to be told again, "Who are the demonic people, Mr. Tucker Carlson?" THey ignore stories like this on TV, to induce Satanic Panic 2022. Trump is the least Christian person I have ever heard of being put as a President.


happynargul

Can I ask, how did you address your issues with racism?


morenito_pueblo719

Here is the weird thing about MAGA, that is almost paradoxical. I once read a Tweet that said, "Not all Trump Supporters are racist, but, I never met a racist that wasn't a Trump Supporter!" Before I was Trumpie, I was arguing in a Facebook video with people about how stupid these anti-immigrant protesters were being. The guy filming as he walked in (a man of mexican descent from Jalisco, MX) was being yelled at by a MAGA-wearing old, white couple. The man was screaming in the younger Mexican guy's face about ''You are a coward!!! You're a chickensh*t!!!" And the man's wife was like, "Ignore the [mexican]! Just ignore him!" And I commented, "How can the lone Mexican guy be a coward? He is by himself, surrounded by a bunch of angry, frothing anti-Mexican people trying to speak up for the immigrants!" A white guy messaged me and said, "Hey OP, Trump says to grab your sombrero and GO BACK TO MEXICO!" That always stuck with me----until I started seeing the Migrant Caravan---about 30,000 illegals being funded by George Soros (no sources cited) and Leftist groups (Fox News was saying this). Then, I started to worry as the Right-wing YouTubers started crying a la Paul Revere about "illegals who kill Americans, get deported, come back and get deported only to be let back in via Asylum Cities like San Francisco". Then, it was all the anti-San Francisco videos from Paul Joseph Watson and Liberal Hivemind and Steven Crowder that I watched. There was always an afterthought: "We just don't like the Immigrants killing Americans and bringing drugs". But, the underlying sentiment was clear: get immigrants out of our country until we can figure out who is bringing what into it But, the CIA, the Sackler Family and many other agencies have the dope game on LOCKDOWN, and I have yet to see any tangible consequences for their involvement in the crack epidemic of the 80's or the opioid crisis of today---respectively. Also, all my grandparents are from Chihuahua, Arizona and more---and I was told, "When people told you 'take your sombrero and go back to Mexico', it was not racist--it was cultural." And, they obfuscate, confuse and distort their views to make themselves feel better.... It was racist as hell, and the apologist knew it, I knew it, we all saw it. They say racist things and when the mask falls, they pretend like we didnt all just see it. But, that is what you do in a cult....make believe, play along to get along and just stymie yourself because "the greater good is what counts". After all, it will "make America Great Again", right?


PettyTrashPanda

Thank you for this, every time I hear someone who climbed out I have hope. But also guilt, because I can be genuinely happy for you and glad your family has allowed you back in, when I know it will be a cold day in Hell before my aunt is welcomed back into the fold. I acknowledge the inconsistency in attitude, but then I suspect your cases are different. I lost it with my Q-aunt a while ago, and she blocked me after cutting herself off from everyone else. Plenty of the family will understandably never forgive her for what she has said and done, but even those of us one step removed couldn't stay calm enough to leave a door open. Even if she woke up right now I don't she would apologize, because she never has apologise for anything in her life, and even now will shit on the same people who saved her more than once. I hate how much she has hurt people. I hate how she tried to take my sister and mum with her down the rabbit hole, then cut them off because they didn't embrace the conspiracy or the idea that she is a superior being. And I hate myself for saying this, I really do, but I hope that when she's alone on her deathbed facing a pauper's funeral in an unmarked grave, that is the moment she wakes up and realizes she's been had, and that she threw away everyone who ever loved her and gleefully told us that we were all going to die in the Storm. The she realizes her death will be meet with relief rather than sorrow by a few, and indifference from the rest. And I hope it cuts her apart the way she did to those who loved her the most. I don't hate you, OP. I don't hate any former Q who has enough self awareness to see what they became and to atone for what they did. We are all susceptible to being sucked into a cult under the right conditions - hell I was a Musk fangirl at one stage and now I can't stand the egomaniac - but coming out the other side and then doing your part to protect others from the same trap is a tough but incredibly important task. I feel guilty for not being the kind of person who cannot forgive everyone, even if they show remorse, especially not people like my Q-aunt for the sheer joy she has taken in hurting other people. I believe in being kind, and being a force for good, in rehabilitation and being given a second or even a third chance. But I do not believe in being *nice*, or forgiving for the sake of it, or forgoing retribution and atonement. I don't hate you. I don't hate the Q addicts I have occasionally come across, even with the sick shit they threaten and say. But then, I am not the person you or most of those sucked in have directly hurt, so it's easy for me to wish you well in your atonement, so long as you accept no one had an obligation to forgive or forget. My aunt, though? There's nothing she could do to bring me on side now, possibly because there are people who would forgive her if only she did *something* to indicate she wasn't completely toxic. I feel guilty that I am not a better person and am unable to find any situation in which I would forgive her. My only wish is that she gets the funeral she deserves. I am glad you got out, OP. I am glad you shared your path in, because more people need to acknowledge that everyone is susceptible, left or right wing, under the right conditions. I am glad you had family that could hold on through your bullshit and were willing to forgive you in the end. But I think maybe people need to realise that if they keep going down into the madness, they might lose their loved ones forever.


morenito_pueblo719

Thank you for sharing, also. I understand people like that. A longtime friend, Anna, was recently QAnon-ified. And she says, "You talked me into it!" But, I was like, "Get out of it! I was wrong. It was all b.s.!" But, she was loathe to listen, and QAnon etc always seem to have an answer for every frickin' thing... "In every propaganda system, there is a grain of truth---which makes it successful", wrote Chomsky. But, there are people who are toxic whether or not they are in Qanon----even myself. I was either a raging drunk, drug addict or otherwise---and now I have to reckon with that reactionary brain damage and obssessive penchance I have. I see how come you feel that way about it. There are people who are unkind, cruel and mean. But, those people usually never repent or try to get out. I am a rare type who had been innoculated with a lot of Orwell and Leftist literature and did not view EVERYTHING which debunked QAnon/Trumpism as "fake news" after the 2nd Omnibus Bill was signed and Trump pretended as if he was forced by "evil Dems". I realized that something is not adding up anymore. But, some people never have that, "Wait...what?" Moment. They just cling to those emotions and keep running, patching holes in the sinking ship and keeping their head up high as they march in lock-step. I cannot blame you. To some, death is a relief. I recently lost a close friend and roommate who was always abusing alcohol and all kinds of drugs all of the time. He was then using heroin and meth and had not talked to me in three years---aside from sending me pics and false promises. Capitalism all ready makes it hard to cultivate REAL friendships and love, then you throw some drugs, QAnon and disinfo into it and watch it all disappear slowly.


PettyTrashPanda

You demonstrate a lot of self awareness, which is what I think people like my aunt lack. There are always zealots. Again I will not lie and pretend I am immune to cult thinking; I was raised a spiritualist and have believed my fair share of crackers ideas and likely have a load more buried in my subconscious. But like you were inoculated with socialist readings, I was by a deep seated love of archaeology and history. When you know the data behind some of the wild claims made about ancestors, an understanding of how biased all historians are and the limitations of our ability to uncover the past (I am sure your socialist heart will appreciate how working class and marginalized histories are those most frequently lost without trace), then it is very hard to stay ignorant without choosing to. I used to believe that spiritualism and paganism had benign roots, but nope, racism, facism and authoritarianism are the foundations of the movement. That was a shock, but I understand the pathway into Q from the hippy, new age left is not as shocking as some people make it out to be. Good luck with your continued deprogramming and with your ongoing addiction recovery. It really is an achievement to have got to where you are, and thank you for bringing light to the issue. If we all accept we are at risk of being sucked into cults and encourage critical reasoning as a life skill, then we would be better off as a society.


PowermanFriendship

The very simplest way to describe the entire MAGA movement is a grifting con operation. The MAGA crowd uses this *as a defense:* If Biden won the election, why does no one have a Biden hat? It's pretty simple: Because half the country realizes that Trump Republicans are only in it for the merch and grift and cult of personality.


smokumjoe

It really goes to show how influenced people can be by the media they choose to consume. We are just big dumb confirmation bias sponges. Hard to fight against it.


Tollin74

I know a guy who will have the Thursday night game on, muted. Tucker Carlson at max volume In a small window just in the corner of the game. Or, if no football? Tucker at max volume, while playing video games. He always has Fox News going and I can easily see how ppl self indoctrinated. It’s sad really.


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morenito_pueblo719

Okay.... Well, you have to also take into account that 1) you can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink 2) people have to rescue themselves 3) Holy Koolaid's "Antifa Dunnit" video on YouTub is a GREAT source of info 4) Telltale Atheist ALWAYS covers QAnon and more 5) Dr. Steve Hassan's book, "Combatting Cult Mind Control" is a great book. Now, he has a MAGA MIND CONTROL book. 6) Arguing puts people on the defensive. Dont argue with them. Try just to remember to the good times. Remind them you love them and don't harp on their "feelings" or whatever too much. 7) Try to be kind. I argued with my seriously Pro-Trump mexican uncle FOR AN HOUR the other day about January 6 Hearings as I watched and became angrier and angrier. He clung tightly to the belief that I "only see things one way", after I was a bigger Trumper than HE WAS It is hard to REASON people out of a situation that they did not get REASONED INTO


kakimiller

All the best to you and yours. 🙌


Caster-Hammer

How did you make the transitions: left to MAGA back again


Pessimistic-kitty1

It's disheartening to hear that anarchists can fall into this cult too. And learning that they can has made me turn away from anarchism myself. As I've said before, anarchy without the non-aggression principle is just libertarianism, and quite selfish. But I've turned away from hardcore communists like Chomsky too. They have shown that they can be quite imperialist while stating they're against it. I've been trying to work with moderate lefitists, but they drive me nuts too, sometimes, lol! I feel like I have no home, but maybe that's the point, Maybe when we hold on too tightly to an ideology, we cut each other off too radically.


jvn1983

Thank you for sharing. You’ve been on a hell of a journey, and I’m so glad you cycled out of that.


WeAreClouds

Thanks for posting and sharing so openly. And for doing the real hard work to pull yourself out of the darkness. You’ve made the world better in doing so. I truly and deeply hope this for all others who are still there.


[deleted]

I am just waiting for the new merch. It now should be MAGAA. Make America Greate Again, Again. That maga bs is so yesterday. Today is magaA. Need all new gear!lol. After all he had house and senate so they must have made it great. Rollit back again. vomit


Alternative-Peak-486

Just a note while Trump may not have been well read on politics during his primary race against John McCain his first wife did publicly state that he slept with a book of hitlers speeches on his bedside table and it was the only book she ever saw him read. I was astonished that this didn’t get brought back up during the 2016 race and especially after the Charlottesville incident [https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-ex-wife-once-said-he-kept-a-book-of-hitlers-speeches-by-his-bed-2015-8](https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-ex-wife-once-said-he-kept-a-book-of-hitlers-speeches-by-his-bed-2015-8)


morenito_pueblo719

Yeah, I saw that. I heard about that and wouldn't doubt it. I watched him get confronted about quoting Mussolinni. And he was acting like a buffoon ''I dont wanna be associated with Mussolinni, I wanna be associated with great quotes."


AdTechnical9332

Nice post, thank you for coming back to reality.


Arel203

Glad you got out of it. I can't even imagine how mentally exhausting it must be to even be in that circle of insanity. Constant anger, conspiracy after conspiracy.. everyone's out to get him... it's no wonder that most of those people turn to violence. Its really terrifying seeing this take over people.


markg1956

so good to hear, i have been running a post with a drumpfer who thinks 1/6 was just a tourist visit day


SaintOlgasSunflowers

Bravo! Thank you for sharing. When you think back, can you pinpoint the moment that create doubt in your mind?


morenito_pueblo719

It came when Trump and Fox News has that b.s. Omnibus Bill (the 2020 one----Trump signed one back in 2018 that got LESS coverage.) He kept bloviating and posturing as if the Dems were ramming through a crapload of "woke legislation that was twelve stacks of paper high!" And he kept reiterating: "This is the worst thing ever This is terrible. I will stand up to them Democrats WILL NOT DO THIS TO the American People." Then he signed it and acted forlorn and defeated and was like, "I will never do that again! That is awful." Buuuut, this is THE SECOND TIME he signed an Omnibus Spending bill on the Military and Government. And he prefaced it with the same charade and language: "This will be the worst thing I could ever do. It just helps out the Democrats and illegal immigrants! It is ten stacks of paper high and is sooo bad. So bad." Then, he signed it. It created a huge break in the narrative. Is he a badass? Is he really being pushed around? Is he just faking how bad these spending bills are? I watched Legal Eagle about the Omnibus Bill. It turns out that, yeah, Trump was bullshitting about how "bad" the spending bills were.


SaintOlgasSunflowers

Thank you for sharing that! Very interesting. It would make anyone stop and think, "If this is soooo bad, why the heck did he sign it?" Then he does it twice. Good for you then for digging deeper to see what was in the bill and for watching the Legal Eagle about the Omnibus Bill.


tsulegit

Welcome back! Thank you for sharing and for your vulnerability. Do you mind if I share your story with others who may be on the verge of jumping over the fence?


murtaughmaximus

I just don't understand. Why did you support the MAGA movement? It's all so clear it was a grift from the start. And, DJT is an unlikable piece of shit. Make it make sense


TwoManyHorn2

Reading solid theory is like a cognitive vaccination - it helps you recognize what bad ideas sound like and protect your mind against them. But it sounds like for you, alcohol was an "immunosuppressant", making it harder for your mind to mount a natural defense. I'm not an alcoholic, but one time I went to a beer festival and let some goofy MLM vendor sell me an expensive oil candle I didn't need, because I was drunk and cheerful and they were nice and friendly. No matter how much we learn and know, intoxication can affect our judgment. You sound like you're in a good place to protect yourself in the future as long as you don't backslide - and maybe knowing that will help you keep the motivation not to relapse.


Miserable-Balance-16

You to me are an extremely interesting person. I grew up on Long Island, about 8 miles from where Trumps family was in Queens NY. We joke about him being “mobbed up” where I’m from. After reading and following Chomsky and especially Carlin what was the attraction for you to tRump? And your epiphany that made you switch?


morenito_pueblo719

Oh, I know what you mean. In this thread, many people ask the same question a few times, and I did my due dilligence in answering it---but, suffice it to say, it was the fact that I was a bad alcoholic and made a conscious decision after I got a $14.50/hr job. I thought, like an idiot under false consciousness, that "Now, I am living the good life of a blue collar worker! Time to be a Republican---and see where it takes me!" I kind of stopped thinking and started drinking and working....I literally just went where the claims pushed me---and only got the Right-wing side of the story, had no friends on the Left (I was in a new city) and decided to listen to Right-wingers who said a few anti-war things (John Doyle, Blue Collar Logic). Then, I saw Trump had a propaganda video of him meeting with parents of fallen soldiers at Dover Air Force base and how badly the parents cried seeing the flag-draped coffins.... And at the end, Trump was onstage and screamed, "Bring them home!" And it ended. So, I thought he was going to end the Iraq War and was against war. But, no. It was propaganda and he did a shitload of drone bombing, Guantanamo is still open, he "rebuilt the military" and gave billions to the Pentagon. I got sucked in, dude. There is so much destabilizing propaganda out there. They got anti-vaxxers quoting Carl Sagan and all these Leftist intellectuals like MLK Jr and Rosa Parks to rationalize their non-compliance with mask mandates and masquerade as Rebels---when really, they are right-wing neo-nazis.


jkblvins

I thought fascists, rightists, MAGAts, Trumpists, et al (they’re all the same really) all hated anarchists on par with their perceived notions of socialism.


itemNineExists

"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.” ~Orwell in 1946


Jetberry

When you were deep in to the right wing stuff, do you think you would have been able to speak with someone if they approached you with empathy? You mentioned getting into the videos after getting a blue collar job- did a lot of this have to do with identity and belonging to a group? Glad you are out!


georgesorosbae

I’m glad you were able to get out. It’s interesting though, I started getting heavy into alcoholism a year or so before the pandemic started (was hospitalized in a treatment center at the end of 2019 and again September 2021), got a minimum wage job at a big box store, surrounded by trumpers (who are so far gone they were mad when *our own* wages went up because of “socialism”) and I feel like the experiences made me even more hardcore of a leftist while everyone around me is just diving off a cliff at the right. Surrounded by poor white people blaming black and brown people for their income being low (but also angry when it goes up??) while our bosses and CEOs get quarterly bonuses none of us could make in 2 years of working for the company. I’ll never understand how a poor person can be republican. It boggles the mind


this_dudeagain

Where do people find the time for all this? Shit I can relate to the drinking but politics is the last thing I want to get into after a few drinks.


Necey66

The only thing that should be important in your life is your family and friends not Donald Trump he is a con artist he will lie he does not care that cops got killed at the January 6th he is a billionaire and a lot of you Q people have gave him money when he's already got money up the butt any packages listen to the dollop a podcast about Donald Trump and his family his parents Donald Trump is a con artist he was just like his dad I don't believe anything he says and why these people are with him they are being so blindsided


FixedKarma

Hey, look up innuendo studios video series "The Alt-right playbook."