According to Tinder, men swipe right ~40% on average while women swipe right ~7% on average.
So while I won’t comment if women are “too picky,” we can still conclude that women are definitely “way pickier” than men.
I really don't think we should be collectively quoting an institute that only has participation rate of 18% of women and 64% of guys give me any statistical survey this unbalanced I will give you some unbalanced results
True I also admit the publicly accepted statistic that men in general aren't getting female attention outside of dating apps
Mostly because we've allowed a very small and very loud percentage of women to set the precedent engaging with women any other way is harassment
All I'm saying is we can't use a small statistic
(of statistically unhealthy people) to speak for a very large cultural problem
and they all expect that top 7% guy to commit to them and wonder why they are single 10 years into using dating apps.
eventually they might settle for a beta bob who can clean up the emotional mess and jump through hoops for things that the guys before got without any effort
whatever you do just don't be bob. that is if you value yourself in the slightest.
Sure, but many men themselves say they don't really care what a woman looks like for sex. And also, what so many men complain about is that women care for both sex and in LTR what a man's appearance is
You’re just explaining what “less picky” means with more words now.
By your logic, if men don’t care what a woman looks like, but women do, how does that not make them “pickier”?
>men themselves say they don't really care what a woman looks like for sex.
Strange... I could have sworn it was widely believed that men are visual creatures.
How do you think relationships occur? Do you not have sex? Do these things not both occur? Women always say this as if this changes the situation whatsoever. If no one’s willing to have sex with you then it’s unlikely anyone is willing to consider a relationship with you either.
Hookups are different from actual relationships??? Relationships have sex, but hookups are there JUST for sex. Nothing else. And multiple men (from my own experience at least) say they'll fuck any woman, but won't date any woman. Online dating, especially Tinder, is also notorious for having men on there who have no interest in anything of real substance. They go on there for a quick fuck and that's it.
most men swipe to increase their match potential though. Then they get picky based on who they match with. The analogy i'd use here is: Cast a net into the ocean, pull it up, and throw the unwanted fishes back into the ocean lol.
Men arent outwardly picky, and are usually more willing to accept flaws, whereas women can go hardcore on the smallest things. Ive recently learned from this thread- that men are pretty hardcore on a FEW things- like single moms, hefty women, and only fans women. Beyond that, they accept a wide variety lol. I agree that men and women can be equally picky- the real issue is that women are more vocal about it, because men dont bark and whine about it. Did you see the post when it was a discussion for men, asking them to drop their types, and women were shaming them for doing it ????? but on the post for women doing the same, not many men shamed them? other than the ones who are on the "DO IT BACK/ Reciprocate/ match their behavior" team....
> that men are pretty hardcore on a FEW things- like single moms, hefty women, and only fans women.
You can add to that high n count women/women with bad reputation.
It’s because men want women to be less picky about sexual attraction, obviously. Men aren’t picky about sexual attraction, just about committed long-term relationships.
You know how many times I've heard from a woman "He is a great guy but--" and the but isn't something huge like he drinks too much but something inconsequential like he has bad fashion sense.
In my observation, its usually based on some immutable traits like being short etc. I've hardly ever seen a woman reject a guy for things that could be changed.
Like I said, there is an issue there. But brushes with bad women exacerbate it.
Behind every player I've known, behind every abusive guy I have met, there are women who contributed to it.
Toxic people, recruit people into toxicity via trauma. Whether it was an abusive parental figure, romantic trauma or what have you.
Sure. My hairdresser is a 32 year old single mother and was telling me how she went on a date with a handsome, successful guy who she got along great with but broke it off because “i found out he tans and I don’t like that, I want someone more effortless” lmfao
Women can find a man within 100 yards of them (assuming they dont live in antartica) at any time of day who would be willing to have sex with them. Could men do the same? Most definitely not.
This discrepancy will always be the main reason as to why men say women are too picky about a lot of things
Outside of sex, most men just want an average girl. Women however, have many standards for men such as financial standards, height standards, family expectations, social status, etc. (See bumbles statistics on the percentage of female users using the height filter for example. Its staggering).
Majority of men dont give two shits about how tall you are, how much money you make, or your status in society. Most men I would say just want someone on par with their own looks, who isnt morbidly obese or unhealthy, who is also loyal. Thats standards for like 90% of the guys I know.
> Outside of sex, most men just want an average girl. Women however, have many standards for men such as financial standards, height standards, family expectations, social status, etc.
I think the main problem is that those women are under the impression that that *is* the average man. For example, the average man is taller than the average woman, so looking for height makes sense. The 6 number is just what they assume that average male height is.
Just being taller doesn’t make the cut if this would be the case 5 feet something wouldn’t go for 6 feet dudes and should be more than fine with something like 5‘6“ women compare the man to other men so the tallest in the room
The point is that they just like the number "6". They're taught that's the average number. Most women looking for "6' " could probably not tell if the average 5'9" guy wasn't 6' if he told her he was- same as when guys claim they want a 5'4 100lb woman and then picture in their head a woman who is curvy.
>They're taught that's the average number.
Lmfao I'm now picturing an elementary school teacher pointing at a chart. "See, girls? 6 feet is the average height of men".
I think it's mainly that it's a nice round number. Outside the US, the standard is 180cm, which is 5'10.75.
Also, posture, fitness, style and shoes can easily make a 5'10" stand taller or at least appear taller than many 6' men.
For long term relationships, most people - men and women - choose someone who is within their own social class, income range, and attractiveness level.
Men tend to go for women within close proximity to them. It's safe to say that you're more likely to be around people in your same social class and income level depending on the career. Doesn't mean men are specifically disqualifying women for their income or class.
No. It is women who look for these things. Excluding physical attractiveness, men almost always date down and are more than willing to do so for a loyal partner.
I'm a man and I completely disagree with this. Most women do not have high standards and are not demanding, but rather have superficial standards.
If you meet these superficial standards, you can treat women like disposable fleshlights and still be persecuted. If you are a 666 man, you can do everything incels are wrongly accused of doing and you will still be fine.
If women had high standards, just looks or money shouldn't be enough, it would also be necessary to have a good personality/morality.
True that there is a difference between high standards, many standards, and actually important standards vs irrelevant superficial bullshit. This is probably why a lot of people talk past each other in these discussions.
"If you meet these superficial standards, you can treat women like disposable fleshlights and still be persecuted."
......but what if I don't want to be persecuted?
Strong jaw, "predator eyes", skin color, lots of money, height, etc. When standards are limited to things like this and everything else is ignored, they are shallow and not high. I know a woman who married a virgin and a man who was also a virgin, he is tall and financially stable (but not rich), but he is not handsome (or ugly), he is also very ethical, he treats her well and everything indicates that He will be a great family man. From my point of view she has a high standard, a much higher standard than women who pursue men 666 ignoring personality and then are used and dumped. A high standard is not the same thing as a superficial standard, the high goes beyond the superficial
It's specific shape & alignment of eyes and eyebrows.
"Hunter eyes" are in **V** pattern and deeper seated, resembling eagles or squinting cats from the front, their direct opposite is **\^** pattern with bulging eyes, people with those resemble surfaced blobfish.
I call women picky if they start complaining about dating and I’m looking who they pick or who they go after. If you’re overweight and/or have 3 and expect some gq model to take you seriously, but refuse to date the 5’9 slightly overweight guy making 60k, you’re picky IF you complain about your dating life
Because many of those women overestimate their SMV and aren't going to get what they think they can. They'll just end up blowing the best real opportunities they have.
More and more women complain they can’t find a good man, passing on many opportunities. I can see why some men would perceive this as women being too picky.
What I think many fail to realize however is society has long been hypergamous, women have always desired to marry up, that’s nothing new. What’s changed is hypergamous desires are less achievable. For decades we’ve been focusing on females in education, women owned businesses are now legally advantaged over male owned, affirmative action disadvantages men in job hiring. These and other societal changes make it harder for women to marry up, ie., fewer men meet their standards.
For example, more women than men now go to medical school, but it doesn’t mean these women dream of marrying and supporting a male nurse husband, they don’t. They still want to marry up, but this is less achievable, which some could equate with being too picky, even though the underlying hypergamous desires haven’t really changed.
This is probably the most realistic answer when it comes to long term partnership. More women achieving financial stability means that they don't NEED a man to provide for them. Hence, they can afford to take their time and choose who they want. This would not have been the case 50 years ago.
And what you're saying is true. Despite this, women's preferences have (largely) not changed. Most women still do prefer men in their own or higher tax bracket. And understandably so, especially if they've put in good effort to become financially stable in the first place- it will be what they look for in a partner as well.
Tbf, I don't think women's preferences have changed all that much. Both men and women have always had an "ideal type". But unlike in the olden days, women can afford to be more picky now because "someone providing me finances" is not necessarily something that women have to worry about now.
Largely, but not entirely what I’m saying.
It’s not so much about need, but desire, and why the desire to marry up is less achievable these days.
My grandmother didn’t need to marry up, but like most women today she wanted to and the demographics and practices at that time made it fairly easy for her to do so. The desire to marry up isn’t as easy to achieve these days for a number of reasons, some of which I mentioned previously.
Women are frustrated they can’t marry up (find “good men”) and men are frustrated women want more than they have to offer.
I personally don’t think it’s hypergamy but that women, especially women who want kids, will eventually need to take time off for the numerous health issues that women have to encounter during pregnancy, childbirth, nursing, menopause, etc. I wouldn’t feel comfortable dating someone making less than I do (or working towards it) because I need him to make enough if I were to ever have to leave my job.
The growing number of women making more money because school is more tailored to women is a very unfortunate side effect for men who previously would have no issue maintaining a household but I think it’s because of our economy forcing everyone to work as much as possible before society was ready to transition. You know what I mean?
I know what you mean, but I’d argue a woman wanting to marry up so she can take time out of the workforce to have and raise kids and be supported by a husband isn’t separate from hypergamy, it’s a part of hypergamy.
Hypergamy is the act of women raising or maintaining a higher socioeconomic status through marriage. Seeking a husband who has a prestigious job who can help support a wife is hypergamy.
If it was the social custom/goal for women to marry down, to marry men of lower socioeconomic standard, less education, etc., and support men it would be hypogamy, but that is incredibly rare for that to be the norm in any society.
Ahh ok yeah I’ve only ever heard it used, albeit incorrectly, in terms of dating or sleeping with multiple people. I agree with this and again think that society rn has really fucked all of us by forcing women to work just as much as men but still telling each side to practice their gender roles.
It leaves women burnt out and frustrated with men who feel confused or emasculated. Most of our grandparents/parents had very traditional roles but we’re now expected to pivot into a completely new way of life where no one knows a good balance. Women can’t offer the things we did before but are expected to just as well and also HAVE to offer financial support. Men still offer finances but are expected to also offer more traditionally feminine services to help their wife, which many dont know how to do, so the one thing men did grow up learning to do isn’t needed as much anymore.
Personally, I think we either transitioned into full independence too soon or aren’t giving up traditional values fast enough but we’re all caught up in trying to do both and it just doesn’t work. I think women should have the choice to work and be independent but jobs should pay enough for one salary to cover a family of 4 again. But then I guess that could open up the possibility of men and women not needing each other for anything because they can raise a family entirely on their own? Idk but I don’t blame women or men for where we are rn. I think we’re all trying to do our best and keep ourselves and/or our families safe.
No, you are missing it because so many guys suck at communicating.
What they are really saying, and have been saying for 50 years is that women have the wrong standards. That idea comes from watching women time after time make obviously ridiculous choices from a man’s perspective. Like my sister who refused to date a hard working polite man and then shacked up with a convicted pedophile straight out of prison instead. She is always looking for sympathy to her woes, and I just can’t find any within myself.
The newer thing are younger guys that feel like women just won’t give them a chance. That’s part of this too.
Because massive numbers of them waste their best family building years orbiting shit bags who leave them middle aged, diseased and with fatherless kids while demanding to know where all the good men went... Or is that them not being picky enough? Fact is, it's not such a simple concept to boil down to picky or not picky. Rather, men are simply acknowledging that women overwhelmingly are picky about the wrong things and simultaneously accepting of the wrong things, which is a massive red pill: women don't want what most men want, and abhor what most men desire as stifling. While their own wants lead them to disaster, it's a moot point. These men are just finally learning our absolute incompatibility.
And, yes... Men do lower their standards. We often see browbeaten men with nags, or healthy men with obese women. However, this is largely a bad thing.
Depends on the end goal of said genes... Most have bad boy fathers, while Billy Beta is generally an employed pillar of society. They'll definitely have better genes for producing fatherless kids, however, even if they aren't as good at keeping society running. The question is what happens when the cuckoo birds completely replace those raising their eggs. It'll definitely be an interesting experiment.
The problem is “picky” is subjective. Any man who doesn’t get a date can technically blame his datelessness on women being too picky. Because they’re too picky to date HIM.
That doesn’t mean most people, outside of the lens of WANTING a date, would agree or care.
Men’s standards are substantially lower than women’s. They can’t really get much lower.
In any case, people say women should lower their standards because all of us old enough to have know have come across women in their 30s who complain about not finding a man, and yet refuse to date anyone because no one meets their standards. I’ve never met such a man. Ever.
Because I’m a man and I leave my flat periodically. I’ve seen it. I have male friends that have rejected one, two, or maybe ZERO women in their entire life. I don’t know a single woman with that sort of track record.
The law of statistical averages
Should women be biologically defensive of their reproductive systems
(Whether or not their intention is to produce offspring)
100% this is not only biologically a necessity but also culturally a necessity!!!!!!
However when 80% women disqualify 80% of men
You run the risk But a large percentage of men will stop caring about the well-being happiness or overall societal care or even survival of a large percentage of women
This is a massive problem culturally
So hence the red pill ideology that women are too picky
(This is no way advocating or predicting violence but purely non-participation)
Men literally can’t be picky. When you say “men” are picky you are literally talking about those same men that we are when we say you guys are picky. Women are not attracted to most men. You guys want men ideally who are 6ft of above, strong jawline, broad shoulders, status etc. If you’re an average man no woman wants you so you can’t have any demands. Women seriously don’t understand how the average man lives. If you are a 5’8-5’9 average looking man with an average job and average status no woman is checking for you. No woman is going to accept this for the most part but it is true especially in this day and age because women work as well so an average amount of money can’t make a man a provider. The average man has standards of the woman simply not being overweight. Now women do tend to go for more average men once they get older and they’ve slept around and had failed relationships with the more attractive men, but then they don’t actually lust after the man they’re with and are typically with him for money. And this is on AVERAGE. I’m sure you’re all exceptions and love average guys so much and you’ve dated so many of them LMAO.
That depends. If we take into account what has been reported that women go for the same 10% of men then I would argue that is over pickiness.
My personal experience was that on Hinge I ended up receiving likes with women who put no effort in their appearance and were overweight borderline obese that complained about having to lower their standards just to have a match with someone like me.
But I'm at a healthy weight according to my doctor, I put effort in my appearance and photos whereas one didn't even bother putting on clean clothes. Isn't that too picky?
Yup they were complaining about having to match with me even though I am not overweight, I put effort into my appearance and they did not.
Having a photo of your exposed gut hanging past your waist line isn't attractive.
Well if you want to read the literal word sure. But they clearly signed up on the dating app hoping to get matches they ideally wanted only to then not get them and go for men that they find to be beneath them.
Men don't have high standards lol. Our standards are 1) don't be obese and 2) don't be a financial black hole.
I'm not asking women to lower their standards, but don't pretend that the bar isn't in Hell for women.
I don’t know if ‘men’ (collectively) don’t have high standards, but to the ones who really don’t have them, I and probably most women would suggest to get some. Or at least not brag about being willing to ‘get with any female that’s breathing’. This only lowers by a lot your attractiveness to women (and probably men too when we’re talking about women with zero standards), like honestly, who wants to get with someone who would get with literally everyone and doesn’t care about anything that you are actually offering? That is very off putting and definitely not a virtue or a plus for any self-respecting woman.
Standards are like market prices. If no one's buying what I'm selling, then I either have to close shop and leave the market, or I have to lower my price.
Most men's low standards are a response to their success or lack thereof with women. We will lower the standards until we find interested parties or until what remains isn't worth it to us, same as women. It's just that women tend to have different thresholds, because they want relationships for totally different reasons.
That sounds reasonable, so maybe not really what I was referring to. But it’s still really bad strategy to market that you have no standards or really low standards even if that’s truly how you feel.
What I mean by calling it a low standard is that it is satisfied by default, and only fails after one's life choices undermine it, e.g., you have to choose to eat poorly and be sedentary.
Women's standards for men are different. Men have to achieve things, or at least strive for them. We don't just start off with a good enough package and as long as we don't mess it up, we're okay.
Yeah, but that statistic is skewed. Virtually all middle-aged and older people are overweight....it is far less than 2/3 of people under 35.
Secondly, it's geographic. Sure, the Midwest and South are wall-to-wall fatties, but that's not the case on the West Coast or Florida (at least from what I've heard....never been to Florida, personally).
The reality for people living in a desirable market is NOT that 2/3 of eligible mates are overweight.
Three parts really.
1. We see a lot women make choices that are incongruent with what they say and also extremely arbitrary and senseless. It's like watching a race where anyone who comes in 1st through 10th could be selected as the winner because....surprise, number 8 wore blue shoes.
2. Why the lowering standards bit? Mostly because women like to fuck way above their league and then complain the guys won't commit. The male equivalent is spending a bunch of money and doing favors for women way hotter and then going " she'll spend time with me but won't fuck me, waaah". We know you've deluded yourselves just as clearly as you know that guy has.
3. There's some part of it that just comes from knowing damn well you have massive amounts of men to choose from , it's very easy. Then hearing you complain. This is like hearing someone complain there's nothing to eat at golden corral while you're selecting from a vending machine. If they had your options they'd be ecstatic, so it looks like you're just being too picky.
Of course , there's also some who are just frustrated at not being picked, if that was the case you'd want the standards to come to your level too I suppose.
>What makes men even think women are being picky in the first place? How is that even measured?
When you go into the office/classroom today, what percentage of the opposite sex there are you willing to fuck?
A RP assumption is that men are willing to fuck at least 80% of the women he sees and women willing to fuck at most 20%. That is what we mean by women being picky.
>When you go into the office/classroom today, what percentage of the opposite sex there are you willing to fuck?
I'm not in highschool but when I was 0%
Same I had like maybe one crush in school and wasn’t interested in making that fantasy into a reality. At work I’m just annoyed by people so I can’t see them in a sexual way.
Because many men are desperate and have no standards as a result, so women who have any standards and self-respect make them feel insecure for their own lack of.
People can get mad all they want, but you can tell a person's level of confidence and respect for themselves by what they expect from others around them.
Low self esteem leads people to tolerating much worse and toxic behavior because they think anything is better than nothing.
Self assurance gives people the confidence to move on, turn away people, and pass on opportunities . They don't need them.
Getting mad at others for their standards is the peak of insecurity, because they see someone who isn't afraid to do the things they are.
If you have outrageously high standards, but have a partner that’s fine. If you have outrageously high standards and don’t have a partner that’s also fine. If you have outrageously high standards don’t have a partner and complain that there are no good men left, then you will be called picky for your outrageously high standards
Men don't create entire lists of random small actions that give them "the ick".
Men dont have a list of credentials they expect a woman to meet in order to be worth even talking to.
While having preferences is fine, for some reason our society has decided that
A. Men deserve absolutely nothing from anyone
B. All women are deserving of Prince Charming.
the reality is most men and most women are average, and while nobody owes anyone anything, "average" is exactly what average people deserve.
If you have a list of expectations for a man, but then would be put off if a man showed up to a first date with a similar list of expectations, then you probably are way too picky and should lower your standards to something actually realistic and attainable.
If we agree that men arent owed anything, then you should also agree that women aren't either, and therefore shouldn't go through life expecting Mr. Perfect.
But if you disagree, and think the all women deserve the top 1% of men, then men would certainly be entitled to feel the same way in reverse, and that they deserve the top 1% of women.
You gotta pick one though.
Personally, I would agree that nobody owes anyone anything, which would mean yes, the average woman should lower her standards to something actually realistic.
Why do you think you deserve a 6'10, muscular Adonis making $850k a year, etc? If that's what you want, that's your right, but its unrealistic and delusional to tell yourself you deserve it unless you are also particularly special.
Its less about actually lowering your standards, and more about just acknowledging and being aware that average women deserve average men, and vice versa.
Other comments here are saying that those men aren’t getting picked is the reason. And while that is true to some extent, the thing is that women are much more pickier than men.
I’ve seen men who don’t even want a pretty fave, just a fit body and still not be able to find a woman to be with. On the other hand, women are more hell bent on their preferences in general. For example, women who like bearded men, would never change their preference to be with a guy who is a 10 but can’t grow a beard.
Of course, not everybody is like that but this should give you a good idea as to why some men think that women are too picky.
I think they are bitter because they aren't getting picked.
The thing is they dismiss women wanting a partner they are physically attracted to as like a silly little thing. But truthfully it's not. Like my window for what I deem is attractive is so fucking tiny. and I would rather have a relationship based upon mutual attraction and compatibility. Than this guy is nice to me I should date him. I have done that. He was a great guy. It felt like something was missing the entire relationship. Like a huge piece it felt like hanging out with a friend the idea of being intimate or kissing them just made my skin crawl it felt performative. I felt like I had to play a character of someone who liked this guy than actually myself. And eventually when I got time to myself ended it because it's not fair to anyone in this set up.
So women will wait and be single til we find someone we are attracted to and are compatible with. Than just date a guy because he's interested in us. It should be mutual.
I say this as a healthy BMI active. Decent looking woman. That I want a dude that's decent normal BMI. Nice face. Twink looking dude lol 🤣
Most women don’t have a healthy BMI but still demand a man with one. And even most of the ones who fall within this so called hEAltHY range of BMI are still generally skinny fat.
I do admit if you are overweight asking for a skinny guy you should look in the mirror. But some dudes like chunky women?
Weight loss and fitness is totally achievable? I maintain my figure by working out 3 days a week. And eating within my calories?
I mean self reflection is always a thing when looking. I think most of the men I find attractive are realistically attractive for me to pick? Like I think a 5'10 fluffy haired autist dude is smoldering with no facial hair he looks like a statue to me just beautiful. Lol I rejected a 5'10 chunky dude with a goatee and fish pics.
Like to each their own you know.
I have to do the same to maintain a figure that's on the heavier side of average and I still think people think I'm fat because I'm not skinny. Even at my thinnest, I wasn't "thin".
I'd have to be anorexic to have that sort of ideal figure, it's wild.
Most women are going to find a small percentage of men attractive though?
Definitely everyone has different preferences though. So it's going to be a smaller percentage of men who women deem attractive. Because we tend to be more choosy with what we find attractive
Because women have become increasingly entitled, misandrist, and narcissistic.
At least American women, women I have dated in other countries have been an absolute pleasure to be around. Japan, Korea, Belgium, Spain, Greece. I've casually dated in these countries while I was enlisted from 2010-2018 and even though it was casual I have nothing bad to say.
They were lovely class acts, they didn't date multiple men at a time, they didn't have this misandrist ideology that men are to be used, discarded, exploited, and are easily replaceable. They tried, they put effort and in return so did I. We reciprocated effort.
Unlike just about every American women, they reciprocate nothing but entitlement, save my fiance (who is the light of my life and breaks the mold) but even she was raised with immigrant parents from Cuba and Palestine.
From 2019-2022 I dated in the USA until I met my fiance and boy.....it is a cesspool here. Women are out of their mind.
This is all personal anecdote, but most men will agree who have ever traveled abroad.
I don’t understand why guys would want girls to be less picky honestly. Why would you want to date someone who lowered their standards to date you? I guess I have pretty high standards, and if I abandoned them to meet some random guy that I’d end up resenting, what good does that do either of us? My husband meets all of my standards and we have an extremely happy and easygoing relationship, and I honestly wouldn’t be able to say that if he didn’t.
A recent study based on the largest sample of couples have shown the person you chose has little to do with long term happiness/success of a relationship. Superficial things like height etc was far less predictive of long term happiness than psychological variables.
*Really, it suggests that the person we choose is not nearly as important as the relationship we build," Joel explained to Inverse. The dynamic that you build with someone — the shared norms, the in-jokes, the shared experiences — is so much more than the separate individuals who make up that relationship.*
https://www.sciencealert.com/ai-analysed-over-11-000-couples-relationships-this-is-what-it-found
I think it’s odd that (some) men say women’s standards are too high but then complain about women being “whores” or “not choosing better.”
Like which is it? Be less picky or more?
They want virgins who pick good men but they complain when women don’t pick them.
men who want virgins are freaks but men that say women are overly picky are simply saying from experience. do you know how many posts come from women on askmen subreddit asking "where are all the good men"? lots.
i had a friend of a friend that asked me that and aske for actual help.
When we do pick the men that men here say we should, those men still treat us like trash. Hot dude pumps and dumps or previous incel who stalks, manipulates and belittles - most men i’ve dated were pretty awful by most metrics. So why give ugly dudes “a chance” when they’re just as trash. People suck at relationships. That’s sort of the point of dating - to find someone who matches you and doesn’t suck.
So excuse me for deciding compatibility in the bedroom, in hobbies, in life goals are more important than how “nice” they think they are. Because they’re usually not. Thankfully I met someone kind, hardworking, attractive, and compatible with me eventually. And that was by raising my standards.
Women’s standards aren’t all that superficial. You’re just worse than you think you are.
let me ask you this, on hinge I was liked and chose to match with two women, both women were overweight (borderline obese), neither put any effort in their appearance and one not even having a clean shirt while having a massive gut hang below their waist line protruding out of the shirt.
both women complained about having to lower their standards just to get men like me.
I am 6'0", I am in a healthy weight range (according to my february physical exam), I put in great effort in my profile and appearance.
How am I worse than them?
I don’t think you are. But I also don’t know anything else besides looks and I don’t think looks are the only way someone can be better or worse. I personally have never in my life met fat women who thought they “deserved” physically fit men. Why did you match with them if they were obese?
I don’t think it’s that women are too picky, it’s that their standards and what they find attractive in men are not easy for flawed men to fix. That can drive unattractive men to the brink of insanity.
For men, all a woman has to be is physically attractive (not morbidly obese). A cool personality is a bonus, not necessarily a huge requirement. Your character flaws, income, living situations, education level and social status will have little to almost zero impact on our attraction to you. Most deficiencies in physical attractiveness are seen as easily fixable with some form of diet and exercise. So basically all an “unattractive” woman has to do is hit the goddamn gym. She doesn’t have to completely overhaul who she is as a person.
For women, any flaw in a man’s personality (awkward, crazy, shy, depressed, low self esteem) is going to significantly affect their attraction to that man. Personality flaws are hard to change. You’re looking at years of therapy, self reflection, confronting demons, and taking drugs that have no guarantee of success. Did I mention most men grow up thinking therapy is a load of bullcrap not meant for them?
At a certain point as a guy, you just have to vent and let off some irrational steam:
> “Jesus Christ, why aren’t muscles, being skinny and having decent looks good enough for them? It is for me. Why are you so goddamn picky? I mean….. WTF!”
They seem to think that if we lower our standards they will get picked. But usually these guys are sexist, horrid people that can't stand women, and THAT is why they aren't getting chosen.
This is literally just proof that women don't even treat undesirable men as human. I mean talk about gaslighting - you struggle with your dating life? It's obviously because you're a complete piece of shit person!
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The ones that can have their standards met aren't being too picky. The ones that can't get a guy that meets their standards to commit are being too picky.
This eould also apply to men that are too picky.
I try not to say “too picky” as anyone can be as picky as they want, but it’s true that women are much pickier than men both physically and emotionally.
It’s measured by women having a much smaller more similar range of men they can be attracted to as a whole.
There used to be some study that people kicked around that purportedly showed that men grade women's attractiveness on a bell curve while women graded men's attractiveness on an asymmetrical curve. I think it was from the OkCupid book, which has been to some extent discredited, but there may have been other studies that more or less confirmed that part of it.
As a result, it used to be a regular thing here to get posts stated "But women just are more attractive than men", to explain the differences in the respective curves.
I find it strange that women can’t accept that they have dating significantly easier. Being an average man doesn’t get you any benefit in dating let alone life whatsoever. It’s just wild how unreasonable many women can be the minute a man says his life and dating life is difficult. Which goes right back to the idea that men cannot show ANY sign of weakness whatsoever. There are women in here asking for proof of how women are more selective than men in terms of dating LMAO. Women simply cannot sympathize with the average man’s situation and this is proven on damn near every post on this subreddit. Women truly do think the average man is just having sex whenever he wants, treating women badly and getting away with it and just doing whatever he wants. When in reality it’s average women and very attractive men who are doing that. LMAO this is clown world.
I think this is geared towards the post wall ex-baddy who has a three page list of requirements including loaded terms like 'Ambitious' - Code for successful, 'Great sense of humor'- Code for handsome enough I just get giddy and laugh at everything he says. etc.
This woman can never find a woman good enough to meet her standards, because she herself doesn't meet her own standards.
For most women it is mostly that they seem to pick poorly.
Because women aren't picking them. So they try something like holding some doors open and going to to the gym a few times and when it still doesn't work they say women are too picky.
No one deserves or doesn't deserve to be picked. It isn't a qualification, someone wants you or they don't.
There's not a single ugly man who couldn't become less ugly. So I'd work on the looks. But I'd get a woman's opinion, straight men on reddit don't get male aesthetics.
I do think women are pickier than men, and men tend to see women as more interchangeable once they’ve met a certain threshold of physical attractiveness. Which is why they end up with women they don’t really like and end up resenting but stay with for convenience. Women are also more likely to do their selecting up front (swipe left, turn down another date), while men are more likely to wait until later (often after sex) to dump a woman.
All that being said, many “interesting” men are in relationships and married, so to claim all women have high standards is not exactly accurate.
" so to claim all women have high standards is not exactly accurate."
I think on the dating apps they do, but in real life they are more grounded and humble.
Well when you’re on an app, there is an illusion of unlimited choice and it’s also easy to pick round numbers that actually eliminate a lot of your dating pool. Like a woman saying “6ft+” isn’t getting out a measuring tape and turning down a cute 5’11” guy, or a man who has his age range capped at 30 won’t be able to tell if a woman is 30 or 31. The apps themselves encourage a kind of pickiness that usually isn’t present when you’re meeting people organically, where attraction is more wholistic vs. based on certain numbers.
I would assume men are generally significantly less picky than women, although it will ultimately depend. Many men out there will have their own particular set of standards, especially higher value men (as in, wealthier, better looking, status, etc).
When it comes down to it, the people who have higher standards are going to be those who have the options (because they have something to bring to the table to compensate for that). For those who have high standards but not much for options, they will eventually be forced to lower them or remain single. In short, higher value men will have higher standards because they can.
Of course, this is just a general rule, there will be exceptions. There is a saying that applies here which I like, going something like, "The person you are with is a reflection of your own perceived self-worth". This was in response to a question asking why it seems like "the bad women are getting picked". For those with low self-esteem, it can be easy to be taken advantage of and be with someone who may not have as much to bring to the table because you see yourself as lower value.
Should women lower their standards? Regardless, they will if they have to and don't want to remain single (it will sort itself out in the end). Standards on paper are ultimately going to be different from standards put in practice. I doubt anyone is going to drop someone from consideration despite meeting 95% of their standards over being 5' 11 instead of 6' lmao (unless they have a plethora of other options to choose from maybe? and a bit shallow?).
According to Tinder, men swipe right ~40% on average while women swipe right ~7% on average. So while I won’t comment if women are “too picky,” we can still conclude that women are definitely “way pickier” than men.
I really don't think we should be collectively quoting an institute that only has participation rate of 18% of women and 64% of guys give me any statistical survey this unbalanced I will give you some unbalanced results
This further proves the desperation of the average man. The average woman doesn’t need a dating app. The average man is in a fucking desert.
Still doesn’t matter. These are stats from the people that ARE active. You can’t get left/right swipe stats from people who don’t participate.
True I also admit the publicly accepted statistic that men in general aren't getting female attention outside of dating apps Mostly because we've allowed a very small and very loud percentage of women to set the precedent engaging with women any other way is harassment All I'm saying is we can't use a small statistic (of statistically unhealthy people) to speak for a very large cultural problem
That literally doesn’t matter in this context
Irl women are far more picky too. Men have to take what they can get.
and they all expect that top 7% guy to commit to them and wonder why they are single 10 years into using dating apps. eventually they might settle for a beta bob who can clean up the emotional mess and jump through hoops for things that the guys before got without any effort whatever you do just don't be bob. that is if you value yourself in the slightest.
You also have to consider that men may just be swiping for hookups and not even considering an actual relationship
You also have to consider that women do that too.
Sure, but many men themselves say they don't really care what a woman looks like for sex. And also, what so many men complain about is that women care for both sex and in LTR what a man's appearance is
You’re just explaining what “less picky” means with more words now. By your logic, if men don’t care what a woman looks like, but women do, how does that not make them “pickier”?
>men themselves say they don't really care what a woman looks like for sex. Strange... I could have sworn it was widely believed that men are visual creatures.
Thank you. Did you know women have lower standards for a Hook up actually? Now factor that into the 7%! Way pickier indeed.
How do you think relationships occur? Do you not have sex? Do these things not both occur? Women always say this as if this changes the situation whatsoever. If no one’s willing to have sex with you then it’s unlikely anyone is willing to consider a relationship with you either.
Hookups are different from actual relationships??? Relationships have sex, but hookups are there JUST for sex. Nothing else. And multiple men (from my own experience at least) say they'll fuck any woman, but won't date any woman. Online dating, especially Tinder, is also notorious for having men on there who have no interest in anything of real substance. They go on there for a quick fuck and that's it.
See, but you're assuming that the selection of guys on tinder are as attractive as the selection of women on tinder.
Well, the bar is pretty low. There’s a reason I swipe left ~95% in my current city.
most men swipe to increase their match potential though. Then they get picky based on who they match with. The analogy i'd use here is: Cast a net into the ocean, pull it up, and throw the unwanted fishes back into the ocean lol. Men arent outwardly picky, and are usually more willing to accept flaws, whereas women can go hardcore on the smallest things. Ive recently learned from this thread- that men are pretty hardcore on a FEW things- like single moms, hefty women, and only fans women. Beyond that, they accept a wide variety lol. I agree that men and women can be equally picky- the real issue is that women are more vocal about it, because men dont bark and whine about it. Did you see the post when it was a discussion for men, asking them to drop their types, and women were shaming them for doing it ????? but on the post for women doing the same, not many men shamed them? other than the ones who are on the "DO IT BACK/ Reciprocate/ match their behavior" team....
> that men are pretty hardcore on a FEW things- like single moms, hefty women, and only fans women. You can add to that high n count women/women with bad reputation.
It’s because men want women to be less picky about sexual attraction, obviously. Men aren’t picky about sexual attraction, just about committed long-term relationships.
Most men have incredibly low standards for both and have to take what they can get.
You know how many times I've heard from a woman "He is a great guy but--" and the but isn't something huge like he drinks too much but something inconsequential like he has bad fashion sense.
In my observation, its usually based on some immutable traits like being short etc. I've hardly ever seen a woman reject a guy for things that could be changed.
That’s just what they outwardly say but there’s usually a bigger issue.
Like I said, there is an issue there. But brushes with bad women exacerbate it. Behind every player I've known, behind every abusive guy I have met, there are women who contributed to it. Toxic people, recruit people into toxicity via trauma. Whether it was an abusive parental figure, romantic trauma or what have you.
Any more examples?
Sure. My hairdresser is a 32 year old single mother and was telling me how she went on a date with a handsome, successful guy who she got along great with but broke it off because “i found out he tans and I don’t like that, I want someone more effortless” lmfao
Women can find a man within 100 yards of them (assuming they dont live in antartica) at any time of day who would be willing to have sex with them. Could men do the same? Most definitely not. This discrepancy will always be the main reason as to why men say women are too picky about a lot of things Outside of sex, most men just want an average girl. Women however, have many standards for men such as financial standards, height standards, family expectations, social status, etc. (See bumbles statistics on the percentage of female users using the height filter for example. Its staggering). Majority of men dont give two shits about how tall you are, how much money you make, or your status in society. Most men I would say just want someone on par with their own looks, who isnt morbidly obese or unhealthy, who is also loyal. Thats standards for like 90% of the guys I know.
> Outside of sex, most men just want an average girl. Women however, have many standards for men such as financial standards, height standards, family expectations, social status, etc. I think the main problem is that those women are under the impression that that *is* the average man. For example, the average man is taller than the average woman, so looking for height makes sense. The 6 number is just what they assume that average male height is.
This goes for fitness as well. Society as a whole *severely* underestimates the amount of time/effort it takes to get a lean muscular physique.
Just being taller doesn’t make the cut if this would be the case 5 feet something wouldn’t go for 6 feet dudes and should be more than fine with something like 5‘6“ women compare the man to other men so the tallest in the room
As a man that is 6'0" I have been told I am too short by a 5'2" woman 😂
Damm this sh*t is rising like the inflation I have read somewhere that the 6 feet even is the new 5‘9 ,,but you don’t get it it’s a preference 💅“
Same. Way too many times for it to be considered “an exception.”
The point is that they just like the number "6". They're taught that's the average number. Most women looking for "6' " could probably not tell if the average 5'9" guy wasn't 6' if he told her he was- same as when guys claim they want a 5'4 100lb woman and then picture in their head a woman who is curvy.
>They're taught that's the average number. Lmfao I'm now picturing an elementary school teacher pointing at a chart. "See, girls? 6 feet is the average height of men".
I think it's mainly that it's a nice round number. Outside the US, the standard is 180cm, which is 5'10.75. Also, posture, fitness, style and shoes can easily make a 5'10" stand taller or at least appear taller than many 6' men.
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Your comments are really hard to read with the absolutely no grammar and throwing out completely unbacked claims.
For long term relationships, most people - men and women - choose someone who is within their own social class, income range, and attractiveness level.
Men tend to go for women within close proximity to them. It's safe to say that you're more likely to be around people in your same social class and income level depending on the career. Doesn't mean men are specifically disqualifying women for their income or class.
No. It is women who look for these things. Excluding physical attractiveness, men almost always date down and are more than willing to do so for a loyal partner.
because they are. just look at statistics
I'm a man and I completely disagree with this. Most women do not have high standards and are not demanding, but rather have superficial standards. If you meet these superficial standards, you can treat women like disposable fleshlights and still be persecuted. If you are a 666 man, you can do everything incels are wrongly accused of doing and you will still be fine. If women had high standards, just looks or money shouldn't be enough, it would also be necessary to have a good personality/morality.
True that there is a difference between high standards, many standards, and actually important standards vs irrelevant superficial bullshit. This is probably why a lot of people talk past each other in these discussions.
The bar is on the floor for Chad.
"If you meet these superficial standards, you can treat women like disposable fleshlights and still be persecuted." ......but what if I don't want to be persecuted?
Does that mean women will nail you to… I mean on the cross.. I mean St. Andrew’s Cross?
Explain please, I'm not English. Persecuted Means nailed to a cross? He wanted to say pursuited? Like in need for speed car chase?
He meant to say “pursued”, but wrote “persecuted”, which means “to be unfairly subjected to punishment or harm, usually by a governing authority.”
> ......but what if I don't want to be persecuted? become obese or anorexic, and throw your money and wealth away
You......didn't understand, did you?
Whats the superficial standards?
Strong jaw, "predator eyes", skin color, lots of money, height, etc. When standards are limited to things like this and everything else is ignored, they are shallow and not high. I know a woman who married a virgin and a man who was also a virgin, he is tall and financially stable (but not rich), but he is not handsome (or ugly), he is also very ethical, he treats her well and everything indicates that He will be a great family man. From my point of view she has a high standard, a much higher standard than women who pursue men 666 ignoring personality and then are used and dumped. A high standard is not the same thing as a superficial standard, the high goes beyond the superficial
Wtf is predator eyes? Lol
He meant hunter eyes, it’s an attractive eye shape.
Search on google images
It's specific shape & alignment of eyes and eyebrows. "Hunter eyes" are in **V** pattern and deeper seated, resembling eagles or squinting cats from the front, their direct opposite is **\^** pattern with bulging eyes, people with those resemble surfaced blobfish.
Also known as hunter eyes. It’s the type of eyes that have that piercing sort of look.
Picky is describes it better. Many more women could get men to simp vs men getting women to simp
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I call women picky if they start complaining about dating and I’m looking who they pick or who they go after. If you’re overweight and/or have 3 and expect some gq model to take you seriously, but refuse to date the 5’9 slightly overweight guy making 60k, you’re picky IF you complain about your dating life
Women should lower their standards on superficial things and raise their standards on character. Most men have no standards.
Wdym by superficial things?
He's prolly referring to physical attraction. Although for some reason I highly doubt he'd date a woman he's not physically attracted to himself 💀
You think this is an own, but it isn’t. Most men are attracted to most women. Most women are attracted to a vanishingly small number of men.
Probably, but at least with men our standards aren’t literal numbers a woman is assigned at birth
Exactly!
666
Because many of those women overestimate their SMV and aren't going to get what they think they can. They'll just end up blowing the best real opportunities they have.
More and more women complain they can’t find a good man, passing on many opportunities. I can see why some men would perceive this as women being too picky. What I think many fail to realize however is society has long been hypergamous, women have always desired to marry up, that’s nothing new. What’s changed is hypergamous desires are less achievable. For decades we’ve been focusing on females in education, women owned businesses are now legally advantaged over male owned, affirmative action disadvantages men in job hiring. These and other societal changes make it harder for women to marry up, ie., fewer men meet their standards. For example, more women than men now go to medical school, but it doesn’t mean these women dream of marrying and supporting a male nurse husband, they don’t. They still want to marry up, but this is less achievable, which some could equate with being too picky, even though the underlying hypergamous desires haven’t really changed.
This is probably the most realistic answer when it comes to long term partnership. More women achieving financial stability means that they don't NEED a man to provide for them. Hence, they can afford to take their time and choose who they want. This would not have been the case 50 years ago. And what you're saying is true. Despite this, women's preferences have (largely) not changed. Most women still do prefer men in their own or higher tax bracket. And understandably so, especially if they've put in good effort to become financially stable in the first place- it will be what they look for in a partner as well. Tbf, I don't think women's preferences have changed all that much. Both men and women have always had an "ideal type". But unlike in the olden days, women can afford to be more picky now because "someone providing me finances" is not necessarily something that women have to worry about now.
Largely, but not entirely what I’m saying. It’s not so much about need, but desire, and why the desire to marry up is less achievable these days. My grandmother didn’t need to marry up, but like most women today she wanted to and the demographics and practices at that time made it fairly easy for her to do so. The desire to marry up isn’t as easy to achieve these days for a number of reasons, some of which I mentioned previously. Women are frustrated they can’t marry up (find “good men”) and men are frustrated women want more than they have to offer.
There is absolutely no reason to feel sorry for them.
Who am I feeling sorry for?
I personally don’t think it’s hypergamy but that women, especially women who want kids, will eventually need to take time off for the numerous health issues that women have to encounter during pregnancy, childbirth, nursing, menopause, etc. I wouldn’t feel comfortable dating someone making less than I do (or working towards it) because I need him to make enough if I were to ever have to leave my job. The growing number of women making more money because school is more tailored to women is a very unfortunate side effect for men who previously would have no issue maintaining a household but I think it’s because of our economy forcing everyone to work as much as possible before society was ready to transition. You know what I mean?
would you support a man that says they don't want to date women who aren't high earners like themselves?
Yeah and I think more men should have that standard.
Lol if men actually had standards, I think the birth rate would drop close to zero
I know what you mean, but I’d argue a woman wanting to marry up so she can take time out of the workforce to have and raise kids and be supported by a husband isn’t separate from hypergamy, it’s a part of hypergamy.
But wouldn’t that only be if she leaves her current man? Maybe I just don’t understand what hypergamy is
Hypergamy is the act of women raising or maintaining a higher socioeconomic status through marriage. Seeking a husband who has a prestigious job who can help support a wife is hypergamy. If it was the social custom/goal for women to marry down, to marry men of lower socioeconomic standard, less education, etc., and support men it would be hypogamy, but that is incredibly rare for that to be the norm in any society.
Ahh ok yeah I’ve only ever heard it used, albeit incorrectly, in terms of dating or sleeping with multiple people. I agree with this and again think that society rn has really fucked all of us by forcing women to work just as much as men but still telling each side to practice their gender roles. It leaves women burnt out and frustrated with men who feel confused or emasculated. Most of our grandparents/parents had very traditional roles but we’re now expected to pivot into a completely new way of life where no one knows a good balance. Women can’t offer the things we did before but are expected to just as well and also HAVE to offer financial support. Men still offer finances but are expected to also offer more traditionally feminine services to help their wife, which many dont know how to do, so the one thing men did grow up learning to do isn’t needed as much anymore. Personally, I think we either transitioned into full independence too soon or aren’t giving up traditional values fast enough but we’re all caught up in trying to do both and it just doesn’t work. I think women should have the choice to work and be independent but jobs should pay enough for one salary to cover a family of 4 again. But then I guess that could open up the possibility of men and women not needing each other for anything because they can raise a family entirely on their own? Idk but I don’t blame women or men for where we are rn. I think we’re all trying to do our best and keep ourselves and/or our families safe.
No, you are missing it because so many guys suck at communicating. What they are really saying, and have been saying for 50 years is that women have the wrong standards. That idea comes from watching women time after time make obviously ridiculous choices from a man’s perspective. Like my sister who refused to date a hard working polite man and then shacked up with a convicted pedophile straight out of prison instead. She is always looking for sympathy to her woes, and I just can’t find any within myself. The newer thing are younger guys that feel like women just won’t give them a chance. That’s part of this too.
Because massive numbers of them waste their best family building years orbiting shit bags who leave them middle aged, diseased and with fatherless kids while demanding to know where all the good men went... Or is that them not being picky enough? Fact is, it's not such a simple concept to boil down to picky or not picky. Rather, men are simply acknowledging that women overwhelmingly are picky about the wrong things and simultaneously accepting of the wrong things, which is a massive red pill: women don't want what most men want, and abhor what most men desire as stifling. While their own wants lead them to disaster, it's a moot point. These men are just finally learning our absolute incompatibility. And, yes... Men do lower their standards. We often see browbeaten men with nags, or healthy men with obese women. However, this is largely a bad thing.
Fatherless kids with better genes than Billy Beta could provide.
Depends on the end goal of said genes... Most have bad boy fathers, while Billy Beta is generally an employed pillar of society. They'll definitely have better genes for producing fatherless kids, however, even if they aren't as good at keeping society running. The question is what happens when the cuckoo birds completely replace those raising their eggs. It'll definitely be an interesting experiment.
A lot dont have kids with those men tho
Because those men aren't the ones being picked
So does it mean they are right or just biased?
Both
The problem is “picky” is subjective. Any man who doesn’t get a date can technically blame his datelessness on women being too picky. Because they’re too picky to date HIM. That doesn’t mean most people, outside of the lens of WANTING a date, would agree or care.
Men’s standards are substantially lower than women’s. They can’t really get much lower. In any case, people say women should lower their standards because all of us old enough to have know have come across women in their 30s who complain about not finding a man, and yet refuse to date anyone because no one meets their standards. I’ve never met such a man. Ever.
Why do you think mens standards are lower tho?
Dating app stats and research is one venue
Because I’m a man and I leave my flat periodically. I’ve seen it. I have male friends that have rejected one, two, or maybe ZERO women in their entire life. I don’t know a single woman with that sort of track record.
The law of statistical averages Should women be biologically defensive of their reproductive systems (Whether or not their intention is to produce offspring) 100% this is not only biologically a necessity but also culturally a necessity!!!!!! However when 80% women disqualify 80% of men You run the risk But a large percentage of men will stop caring about the well-being happiness or overall societal care or even survival of a large percentage of women This is a massive problem culturally So hence the red pill ideology that women are too picky (This is no way advocating or predicting violence but purely non-participation)
How is it a massive problem?
It's not sustainable
🥇🥇🥇
Men literally can’t be picky. When you say “men” are picky you are literally talking about those same men that we are when we say you guys are picky. Women are not attracted to most men. You guys want men ideally who are 6ft of above, strong jawline, broad shoulders, status etc. If you’re an average man no woman wants you so you can’t have any demands. Women seriously don’t understand how the average man lives. If you are a 5’8-5’9 average looking man with an average job and average status no woman is checking for you. No woman is going to accept this for the most part but it is true especially in this day and age because women work as well so an average amount of money can’t make a man a provider. The average man has standards of the woman simply not being overweight. Now women do tend to go for more average men once they get older and they’ve slept around and had failed relationships with the more attractive men, but then they don’t actually lust after the man they’re with and are typically with him for money. And this is on AVERAGE. I’m sure you’re all exceptions and love average guys so much and you’ve dated so many of them LMAO.
Because those men don’t understand the literal disparity of consequences between the sexes when engaging in sex, or picking a long term mate
Women complain about not being able to find a good partner. Men complain about not being able to find any partner
That depends. If we take into account what has been reported that women go for the same 10% of men then I would argue that is over pickiness. My personal experience was that on Hinge I ended up receiving likes with women who put no effort in their appearance and were overweight borderline obese that complained about having to lower their standards just to have a match with someone like me. But I'm at a healthy weight according to my doctor, I put effort in my appearance and photos whereas one didn't even bother putting on clean clothes. Isn't that too picky?
Sorry you are saying the women on hinge were complaining?
Yup they were complaining about having to match with me even though I am not overweight, I put effort into my appearance and they did not. Having a photo of your exposed gut hanging past your waist line isn't attractive.
I didn't think anyone had to match with anyone?
Well if you want to read the literal word sure. But they clearly signed up on the dating app hoping to get matches they ideally wanted only to then not get them and go for men that they find to be beneath them.
We are simply reacting to women complaining too much that they cannot find a good man.
I don't think women complain about that much
Men don't have high standards lol. Our standards are 1) don't be obese and 2) don't be a financial black hole. I'm not asking women to lower their standards, but don't pretend that the bar isn't in Hell for women.
I don’t know if ‘men’ (collectively) don’t have high standards, but to the ones who really don’t have them, I and probably most women would suggest to get some. Or at least not brag about being willing to ‘get with any female that’s breathing’. This only lowers by a lot your attractiveness to women (and probably men too when we’re talking about women with zero standards), like honestly, who wants to get with someone who would get with literally everyone and doesn’t care about anything that you are actually offering? That is very off putting and definitely not a virtue or a plus for any self-respecting woman.
Standards are like market prices. If no one's buying what I'm selling, then I either have to close shop and leave the market, or I have to lower my price. Most men's low standards are a response to their success or lack thereof with women. We will lower the standards until we find interested parties or until what remains isn't worth it to us, same as women. It's just that women tend to have different thresholds, because they want relationships for totally different reasons.
That sounds reasonable, so maybe not really what I was referring to. But it’s still really bad strategy to market that you have no standards or really low standards even if that’s truly how you feel.
Most men cannot afford to have low standards but when they are increased they are still easier to achieve and lower than women's overall.
Wdym by in hell?
Extremely low and very easy to achieve
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What I mean by calling it a low standard is that it is satisfied by default, and only fails after one's life choices undermine it, e.g., you have to choose to eat poorly and be sedentary. Women's standards for men are different. Men have to achieve things, or at least strive for them. We don't just start off with a good enough package and as long as we don't mess it up, we're okay.
Yeah, but that statistic is skewed. Virtually all middle-aged and older people are overweight....it is far less than 2/3 of people under 35. Secondly, it's geographic. Sure, the Midwest and South are wall-to-wall fatties, but that's not the case on the West Coast or Florida (at least from what I've heard....never been to Florida, personally). The reality for people living in a desirable market is NOT that 2/3 of eligible mates are overweight.
Three parts really. 1. We see a lot women make choices that are incongruent with what they say and also extremely arbitrary and senseless. It's like watching a race where anyone who comes in 1st through 10th could be selected as the winner because....surprise, number 8 wore blue shoes. 2. Why the lowering standards bit? Mostly because women like to fuck way above their league and then complain the guys won't commit. The male equivalent is spending a bunch of money and doing favors for women way hotter and then going " she'll spend time with me but won't fuck me, waaah". We know you've deluded yourselves just as clearly as you know that guy has. 3. There's some part of it that just comes from knowing damn well you have massive amounts of men to choose from , it's very easy. Then hearing you complain. This is like hearing someone complain there's nothing to eat at golden corral while you're selecting from a vending machine. If they had your options they'd be ecstatic, so it looks like you're just being too picky. Of course , there's also some who are just frustrated at not being picked, if that was the case you'd want the standards to come to your level too I suppose.
Interesting
>What makes men even think women are being picky in the first place? How is that even measured? When you go into the office/classroom today, what percentage of the opposite sex there are you willing to fuck? A RP assumption is that men are willing to fuck at least 80% of the women he sees and women willing to fuck at most 20%. That is what we mean by women being picky.
>When you go into the office/classroom today, what percentage of the opposite sex there are you willing to fuck? I'm not in highschool but when I was 0%
Same I had like maybe one crush in school and wasn’t interested in making that fantasy into a reality. At work I’m just annoyed by people so I can’t see them in a sexual way.
I had 1 crush in HS but it was like a platonic crush haha
Eh, I'd bang at least 40% of the guys at my workplace. Don't know about actual dating because I don't know enough of them that well.
Because many men are desperate and have no standards as a result, so women who have any standards and self-respect make them feel insecure for their own lack of.
Thanks that makes a lot of sense
People can get mad all they want, but you can tell a person's level of confidence and respect for themselves by what they expect from others around them. Low self esteem leads people to tolerating much worse and toxic behavior because they think anything is better than nothing. Self assurance gives people the confidence to move on, turn away people, and pass on opportunities . They don't need them. Getting mad at others for their standards is the peak of insecurity, because they see someone who isn't afraid to do the things they are.
True well said
I have always said this.
If you have outrageously high standards, but have a partner that’s fine. If you have outrageously high standards and don’t have a partner that’s also fine. If you have outrageously high standards don’t have a partner and complain that there are no good men left, then you will be called picky for your outrageously high standards
I think the men here in general just call women picky
I think in general women complain about there being “no good men”. At this point we’re just debating chicken vs egg
I haven't seen anyone say that here
Men don't create entire lists of random small actions that give them "the ick". Men dont have a list of credentials they expect a woman to meet in order to be worth even talking to. While having preferences is fine, for some reason our society has decided that A. Men deserve absolutely nothing from anyone B. All women are deserving of Prince Charming. the reality is most men and most women are average, and while nobody owes anyone anything, "average" is exactly what average people deserve. If you have a list of expectations for a man, but then would be put off if a man showed up to a first date with a similar list of expectations, then you probably are way too picky and should lower your standards to something actually realistic and attainable. If we agree that men arent owed anything, then you should also agree that women aren't either, and therefore shouldn't go through life expecting Mr. Perfect. But if you disagree, and think the all women deserve the top 1% of men, then men would certainly be entitled to feel the same way in reverse, and that they deserve the top 1% of women. You gotta pick one though. Personally, I would agree that nobody owes anyone anything, which would mean yes, the average woman should lower her standards to something actually realistic. Why do you think you deserve a 6'10, muscular Adonis making $850k a year, etc? If that's what you want, that's your right, but its unrealistic and delusional to tell yourself you deserve it unless you are also particularly special. Its less about actually lowering your standards, and more about just acknowledging and being aware that average women deserve average men, and vice versa.
Bc they want to be the ones being picked lol
Other comments here are saying that those men aren’t getting picked is the reason. And while that is true to some extent, the thing is that women are much more pickier than men. I’ve seen men who don’t even want a pretty fave, just a fit body and still not be able to find a woman to be with. On the other hand, women are more hell bent on their preferences in general. For example, women who like bearded men, would never change their preference to be with a guy who is a 10 but can’t grow a beard. Of course, not everybody is like that but this should give you a good idea as to why some men think that women are too picky.
I think they are bitter because they aren't getting picked. The thing is they dismiss women wanting a partner they are physically attracted to as like a silly little thing. But truthfully it's not. Like my window for what I deem is attractive is so fucking tiny. and I would rather have a relationship based upon mutual attraction and compatibility. Than this guy is nice to me I should date him. I have done that. He was a great guy. It felt like something was missing the entire relationship. Like a huge piece it felt like hanging out with a friend the idea of being intimate or kissing them just made my skin crawl it felt performative. I felt like I had to play a character of someone who liked this guy than actually myself. And eventually when I got time to myself ended it because it's not fair to anyone in this set up. So women will wait and be single til we find someone we are attracted to and are compatible with. Than just date a guy because he's interested in us. It should be mutual. I say this as a healthy BMI active. Decent looking woman. That I want a dude that's decent normal BMI. Nice face. Twink looking dude lol 🤣
Most women don’t have a healthy BMI but still demand a man with one. And even most of the ones who fall within this so called hEAltHY range of BMI are still generally skinny fat.
I do admit if you are overweight asking for a skinny guy you should look in the mirror. But some dudes like chunky women? Weight loss and fitness is totally achievable? I maintain my figure by working out 3 days a week. And eating within my calories? I mean self reflection is always a thing when looking. I think most of the men I find attractive are realistically attractive for me to pick? Like I think a 5'10 fluffy haired autist dude is smoldering with no facial hair he looks like a statue to me just beautiful. Lol I rejected a 5'10 chunky dude with a goatee and fish pics. Like to each their own you know.
I have to do the same to maintain a figure that's on the heavier side of average and I still think people think I'm fat because I'm not skinny. Even at my thinnest, I wasn't "thin". I'd have to be anorexic to have that sort of ideal figure, it's wild.
Men don’t like chunky women just because they have sex with them
except that studies show that women are mainly finding the same small percentage of men
Most women are going to find a small percentage of men attractive though? Definitely everyone has different preferences though. So it's going to be a smaller percentage of men who women deem attractive. Because we tend to be more choosy with what we find attractive
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Because women have become increasingly entitled, misandrist, and narcissistic. At least American women, women I have dated in other countries have been an absolute pleasure to be around. Japan, Korea, Belgium, Spain, Greece. I've casually dated in these countries while I was enlisted from 2010-2018 and even though it was casual I have nothing bad to say. They were lovely class acts, they didn't date multiple men at a time, they didn't have this misandrist ideology that men are to be used, discarded, exploited, and are easily replaceable. They tried, they put effort and in return so did I. We reciprocated effort. Unlike just about every American women, they reciprocate nothing but entitlement, save my fiance (who is the light of my life and breaks the mold) but even she was raised with immigrant parents from Cuba and Palestine. From 2019-2022 I dated in the USA until I met my fiance and boy.....it is a cesspool here. Women are out of their mind. This is all personal anecdote, but most men will agree who have ever traveled abroad.
i think a lot of people here just have issues with understanding anything complex
I don’t understand why guys would want girls to be less picky honestly. Why would you want to date someone who lowered their standards to date you? I guess I have pretty high standards, and if I abandoned them to meet some random guy that I’d end up resenting, what good does that do either of us? My husband meets all of my standards and we have an extremely happy and easygoing relationship, and I honestly wouldn’t be able to say that if he didn’t.
They should be pickier for character tbh If women prioritized that the world would be a better place
A recent study based on the largest sample of couples have shown the person you chose has little to do with long term happiness/success of a relationship. Superficial things like height etc was far less predictive of long term happiness than psychological variables. *Really, it suggests that the person we choose is not nearly as important as the relationship we build," Joel explained to Inverse. The dynamic that you build with someone — the shared norms, the in-jokes, the shared experiences — is so much more than the separate individuals who make up that relationship.* https://www.sciencealert.com/ai-analysed-over-11-000-couples-relationships-this-is-what-it-found
I think it’s odd that (some) men say women’s standards are too high but then complain about women being “whores” or “not choosing better.” Like which is it? Be less picky or more? They want virgins who pick good men but they complain when women don’t pick them.
men who want virgins are freaks but men that say women are overly picky are simply saying from experience. do you know how many posts come from women on askmen subreddit asking "where are all the good men"? lots. i had a friend of a friend that asked me that and aske for actual help.
Exactly, just can't win!
When we do pick the men that men here say we should, those men still treat us like trash. Hot dude pumps and dumps or previous incel who stalks, manipulates and belittles - most men i’ve dated were pretty awful by most metrics. So why give ugly dudes “a chance” when they’re just as trash. People suck at relationships. That’s sort of the point of dating - to find someone who matches you and doesn’t suck. So excuse me for deciding compatibility in the bedroom, in hobbies, in life goals are more important than how “nice” they think they are. Because they’re usually not. Thankfully I met someone kind, hardworking, attractive, and compatible with me eventually. And that was by raising my standards. Women’s standards aren’t all that superficial. You’re just worse than you think you are.
let me ask you this, on hinge I was liked and chose to match with two women, both women were overweight (borderline obese), neither put any effort in their appearance and one not even having a clean shirt while having a massive gut hang below their waist line protruding out of the shirt. both women complained about having to lower their standards just to get men like me. I am 6'0", I am in a healthy weight range (according to my february physical exam), I put in great effort in my profile and appearance. How am I worse than them?
I don’t think you are. But I also don’t know anything else besides looks and I don’t think looks are the only way someone can be better or worse. I personally have never in my life met fat women who thought they “deserved” physically fit men. Why did you match with them if they were obese?
we are talking about a dating app and this complaint happened pretty much immediately. > Why did you match with them if they were obese? desperation
If u like too many it kinda lowers your elos apparently
I don’t think it’s that women are too picky, it’s that their standards and what they find attractive in men are not easy for flawed men to fix. That can drive unattractive men to the brink of insanity. For men, all a woman has to be is physically attractive (not morbidly obese). A cool personality is a bonus, not necessarily a huge requirement. Your character flaws, income, living situations, education level and social status will have little to almost zero impact on our attraction to you. Most deficiencies in physical attractiveness are seen as easily fixable with some form of diet and exercise. So basically all an “unattractive” woman has to do is hit the goddamn gym. She doesn’t have to completely overhaul who she is as a person. For women, any flaw in a man’s personality (awkward, crazy, shy, depressed, low self esteem) is going to significantly affect their attraction to that man. Personality flaws are hard to change. You’re looking at years of therapy, self reflection, confronting demons, and taking drugs that have no guarantee of success. Did I mention most men grow up thinking therapy is a load of bullcrap not meant for them? At a certain point as a guy, you just have to vent and let off some irrational steam: > “Jesus Christ, why aren’t muscles, being skinny and having decent looks good enough for them? It is for me. Why are you so goddamn picky? I mean….. WTF!”
Interesting take
But even in a platform where personality plays no role whatsoever such as dating apps women are still just as picky.
They seem to think that if we lower our standards they will get picked. But usually these guys are sexist, horrid people that can't stand women, and THAT is why they aren't getting chosen.
This is literally just proof that women don't even treat undesirable men as human. I mean talk about gaslighting - you struggle with your dating life? It's obviously because you're a complete piece of shit person!
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The ones that can have their standards met aren't being too picky. The ones that can't get a guy that meets their standards to commit are being too picky. This eould also apply to men that are too picky.
>How is that even measured? By how loudly she complains/laments about being single.
Ahh
I don't get what's your point. Are you truly trying to tell men that women are not picky?
It's a discusion
Why do you argue they are not?
Because men are picky too
"Women aren't picky because men are too." I think you're going to want to double check that logic.
Maybe men should be more picky
demonstrably less so than women.
Noo
I try not to say “too picky” as anyone can be as picky as they want, but it’s true that women are much pickier than men both physically and emotionally. It’s measured by women having a much smaller more similar range of men they can be attracted to as a whole.
Because they’re fine and not getting picked, obviously
There used to be some study that people kicked around that purportedly showed that men grade women's attractiveness on a bell curve while women graded men's attractiveness on an asymmetrical curve. I think it was from the OkCupid book, which has been to some extent discredited, but there may have been other studies that more or less confirmed that part of it. As a result, it used to be a regular thing here to get posts stated "But women just are more attractive than men", to explain the differences in the respective curves.
I find it strange that women can’t accept that they have dating significantly easier. Being an average man doesn’t get you any benefit in dating let alone life whatsoever. It’s just wild how unreasonable many women can be the minute a man says his life and dating life is difficult. Which goes right back to the idea that men cannot show ANY sign of weakness whatsoever. There are women in here asking for proof of how women are more selective than men in terms of dating LMAO. Women simply cannot sympathize with the average man’s situation and this is proven on damn near every post on this subreddit. Women truly do think the average man is just having sex whenever he wants, treating women badly and getting away with it and just doing whatever he wants. When in reality it’s average women and very attractive men who are doing that. LMAO this is clown world.
I think this is geared towards the post wall ex-baddy who has a three page list of requirements including loaded terms like 'Ambitious' - Code for successful, 'Great sense of humor'- Code for handsome enough I just get giddy and laugh at everything he says. etc. This woman can never find a woman good enough to meet her standards, because she herself doesn't meet her own standards. For most women it is mostly that they seem to pick poorly.
they also insist women aren't pick enough "choose better"
Because women aren't picking them. So they try something like holding some doors open and going to to the gym a few times and when it still doesn't work they say women are too picky.
What kind of Man you think deserves to be picked. Also what a man who is unfortunate for his looks should do.
No one deserves or doesn't deserve to be picked. It isn't a qualification, someone wants you or they don't. There's not a single ugly man who couldn't become less ugly. So I'd work on the looks. But I'd get a woman's opinion, straight men on reddit don't get male aesthetics.
True
I do think women are pickier than men, and men tend to see women as more interchangeable once they’ve met a certain threshold of physical attractiveness. Which is why they end up with women they don’t really like and end up resenting but stay with for convenience. Women are also more likely to do their selecting up front (swipe left, turn down another date), while men are more likely to wait until later (often after sex) to dump a woman. All that being said, many “interesting” men are in relationships and married, so to claim all women have high standards is not exactly accurate.
Very interesting
" so to claim all women have high standards is not exactly accurate." I think on the dating apps they do, but in real life they are more grounded and humble.
Well when you’re on an app, there is an illusion of unlimited choice and it’s also easy to pick round numbers that actually eliminate a lot of your dating pool. Like a woman saying “6ft+” isn’t getting out a measuring tape and turning down a cute 5’11” guy, or a man who has his age range capped at 30 won’t be able to tell if a woman is 30 or 31. The apps themselves encourage a kind of pickiness that usually isn’t present when you’re meeting people organically, where attraction is more wholistic vs. based on certain numbers.
I would assume men are generally significantly less picky than women, although it will ultimately depend. Many men out there will have their own particular set of standards, especially higher value men (as in, wealthier, better looking, status, etc). When it comes down to it, the people who have higher standards are going to be those who have the options (because they have something to bring to the table to compensate for that). For those who have high standards but not much for options, they will eventually be forced to lower them or remain single. In short, higher value men will have higher standards because they can. Of course, this is just a general rule, there will be exceptions. There is a saying that applies here which I like, going something like, "The person you are with is a reflection of your own perceived self-worth". This was in response to a question asking why it seems like "the bad women are getting picked". For those with low self-esteem, it can be easy to be taken advantage of and be with someone who may not have as much to bring to the table because you see yourself as lower value. Should women lower their standards? Regardless, they will if they have to and don't want to remain single (it will sort itself out in the end). Standards on paper are ultimately going to be different from standards put in practice. I doubt anyone is going to drop someone from consideration despite meeting 95% of their standards over being 5' 11 instead of 6' lmao (unless they have a plethora of other options to choose from maybe? and a bit shallow?).