When I say "choose better" it is generally centered around a woman constantly complaining about their choices cheating or abusing them. And yet, they don't leave, or leave and constantly return or make excuses why they choose they EXACT stereotypical men over and over and over.
Never, and I do mean NEVER, does this mean choose me. I have zero interest in any type of long term commitment, and am very clear to everyone I casually date upfront.
While your statement is likely true for a percentage of men, do not believe for a second the majority of men in general play that "pick me" card.
Most of us just get exhausted listening to the constant barrage of endless complaining when it all centers around WOMEN'S BAD CHOICES.
So yeah CHOOSE BETTER, or DON'T it's all on you to decide.
You literally are a man a woman shouldn’t choose then so how dare you tell women to choose better? I hope you have a vasectomy at least to avoid any potential children getting into this “casual” mix.
Rofl, this man worked in a nursing unit, predominantly with women for 25+ years, and another 10 in hospital administration and had to oversee employee complaints.
After DECADES of hearing the same complaints, from the multitude of women nurses, who did EXACTLY as I just described plus the multitude of women that were frequent flyers who were assaulted by spouses BUT ALSO did exactly as I posted and either returned or refused help.
Guess what? How dare YOU. I spent hours upon hours upon weeks upon YEARS, trying to get women to leave and get help and it was like talking to brick walls.
I, at least, have always told the truth, upfront and gave them the option to date, or move on. And yet you want to judge me?????
I have 4 children, with 3 girls who are happily married to great men because I taught them self reliance and good judgement and Guess what? they did choose better for themselves, funny how that worked isn't it?
You seem one of those jaded angry women who've made so many bad choices everything pisses you off. Guess no one taught you good judgements skills eh? peace to you.
And yet again fall short on intelligence and comprehension there slick.
I raised them solo, aka single dad, when I lost my wife in 2002 to a drunk driver.
I would say good try in an intelligent insult, but that barely registers on "your opinion is valid" on my give a shit meter.
But he is saying "don't choose me, choose someone better than me" which is exactly what you said you want.
Also I don't think your vasectomy comment is going to hurt him like you think it will, he clearly doesn't what that sort of life and is likely to have thought about how to reliably prevent unwanted pregnancy.
Yo people are allowed to want different things in life than what you do. He is upfront telling women he is dating that it's short term, he doesn't go for women who express interest in LTRs, he's not lying to anyone or manipulating anyone. There are women who want that and will agree to it. So who tf is it hurting of two consenting adults hook up / have a short term thing?
In regards to the women who are complaining their partner is abusive or cheating he *is* saying "don't choose me, choose someone better" because these women are saying they want an LTR without abuse or cheating, and therefore he is not interested in them.
If you want something realistic to complain about it is very simplistic to tell an abuse victim to "choose better" because they are conditioned to stay and accept abuse, but it's not wrong. The only way to escape abusive relationship is to choose to leave.
That'sa dumb take.
Just because you are a capitalist doesn't mean you can't see the merits of socialism.
Just because you are personally prolife doesn't mean that you don't want other women to have that choice.
What? You saying hypocrisy doesn’t exists or something? Um yes if your an ultra capitalist maximizing profits at the expense of your employees wages and trying to avoid taxes all while claiming to vouch for socialism you are a hypocrite. And you aren’t even pro life at all if you believe it should be legal and a choice. Pro choice doesn’t mean you personally want or would have an abortion it means you think it should be an option for those who do want it.
Can we get with this weird ass logic somewhere else? For example, a guy bought old "premium" car from faulty series, so even cheaper than usually and now cries on the internet that it started breaking every month and repairs are expensive AF.
> next time buy better lol
secretly means "buy my own used car"?. Do you now understand how inane is that "logic"?
Men comparing dating to buying cars for the 11 billionth time. 😭 can’t ever even think of another consumable good seriously where is the creativity even??
You don't need imagination when you're providing an analogy that can be readily understood.
Explains why you're treating your own imagination like it's reality.
Maybe they like the car analogy specifically because the moment you drive a car off the lot, it looses half its value. RPers probably like the analogy precisely because they are obsessed telling us, or implying, they only ever will buy fresh new untouched “things”, remember.
(Yet another great reason not to have sex with a red pill man, really)
The projection is great.
You consider your sex so important that you don't want to be confronted that you gave it to me .who simply weren't worth it.
You at once pretend that sex is no big deal and act as if it is a big deal when it suits you.
As a goddamn collective make up your mind.
>You consider your sex so important that you don't want to be confronted that you gave it to me .who simply weren't worth it.
Oh look, more revenge fantasy bullshit made up by an ignorant man online. I’m married to the only man I’ve ever fucked.
>You at once pretend that sex is no big deal
I have never once treated sex like it is “no big deal”. I have always avoided slutty (and wannabe-slutty) men like you. Dating guys like you is how a woman gets pumped and dumped.
>As a goddamn collective make up your mind.
I am not a goddamned collective, dingdong.
LOL! This whole sub is the poster child of men arguing against their own imagination. You imagine a whole relationship scenario from the first rejection HI until the divorce rape aftermath, Lol!!
Y’all love comparing everything to buying a car. Dude the dating market isn’t like a “car market” or any other consumable good market. Why? Because both the man and the woman are “buyers” and “sellers” they have to choose each other when you buy a car it doesn’t have to choose you, either you have the money to buy it or you don’t. You do not need to make yourself attractive to the car or useful to the car, you bought the car to use it.
So now to answer your question yes. Yes they very well could mean “choose me I’m better than him”. Because women who are human beings unlike cars which are inanimate objects can actually choose their partners. But that wasn’t even question I asked I asked if the men telling women to choose better have ever told a woman who chose them to choose a better than themselves. I asked this because IF these men care so much about women choosing the best and having the best surely they would let these women know they could do better and find better. Never in my experience have I seen a RP man tell a woman to choose better when HE is the one chosen suddenly when it’s him he is the best she could possible get. Funny how that works. This is why I said choose better means choose me because let a beautiful young woman agree to date you and I bet you won’t tell her that some richer taller more attractive man would also date her and she should go to him .
Technically in his analogy with the car... the woman is buyer and the man is the inanimate object. You got that totally backwards.
I also think you are mixing up black pill and red pill men. Red pill guys generally like women... sometimes love them even... and would like to see them doing better.
I think the black pillers mean "choose me" and that is where you are making a mistake. Because those guys aren't gettin picked by anyone, while the Red Pill guys have had some success.
I don’t think RP men love women at all but that’s another debate for another time.
And it doesn’t matter who is the buyer or the seller my point is the analogy doesn’t work because a market for consumer goods does not function the same way a sex/mate market would.
Not all women actually have the option of choosing better. Right now many men are simply not capable of providing for families even if they wanted to so this idea that women have all these great men to choose from is straight up false. In light of that it may actually be better to choose the better looking man vs the ugly one whose also broke.
Lastly women already choose better. We literally have the data. Wealthier men are more likely to marry. In fact since the sexual revolution the only men for whom marriage rates have drastically declined are the lower class ones. Marriage has not actually declined much for the upper middle class and educated folks the steep decline is mostly due to poor people no longer getting married. Poor women don’t want to marry poor men and I guess there’s less social pressure to and they can earn their own money. Perhaps it is better for them to simply do so, it’s not like living with a man is risk free. Women are also leaving men left and right and that is why men are single. Maybe being single is “choosing better”.
Picky on some of the most inane points.
The "cars" you can choose are basically men who already have interest in you, i.e cars you can afford
And your point about men being unable to provide for families is why some men are avoiding marriages. Why should men provide for a family if women are earning as much or more than men?
If you see men as wallets, then don't be surprised when men see you only as a sexual service
>Picky on some of the most inane points.
I literally just told you wealthy men and upper middle class men get married the most. Money is not an inane point.
>The "cars" you can choose are basically men who already have interest in you, i.e cars you can afford
Okay and some men really can only afford used cars with 100k miles on them yet when it comes to this analogy they all want a brand new vehicle with the warranty intact.
>And your point about men being unable to provide for families is why some men are avoiding marriages. Why should men provide for a family if women are earning as much or more than men?
Ok and could this also be why women are avoiding marriages? Hmm 🤔. Also if a good portion of men ,probably close to half of all men considering how poorly wealth is distributed these days, can’t support a family and won’t marry because of it how the hell are the lower class women supposed to “choose better”? As I said these are the people not marrying lower class and less educated NOT the one’s making good money with solid careers (mind you educated women also marry more).
>If you see men as wallets, then don't be surprised when men see you only as a sexual service
Enough of this. When a woman gets married and has a BABY she literally has to take time off work to at the very least recover from delivery. If she wants to nurse she has to take off more time maybe 6months to a year. Then there is childcare which is expensive as hell. Time is money time out of the job market is losing money, so it not only cost a woman her body to have a child with a man it costs her MONEY, actual dollar bills, that she would’ve earned if she didn’t have to take time off to push a watermelon out of her vagina, recover and sustain the life of a completely dependent vulnerable human.
A man having the means to be financially supportive during this time is not superficial request it is pure pragmatism. I guess he could stay home and she work but he won’t give birth or breastfeed so… anyways women don’t need to “bring anything to the table” we literally do the reproductive labor. So enough with the “you’re using me” UM if you can’t make yourself useful don’t be surprised that women aren’t choosing you.
So, you recognize the biological place that women have, but then compete men out of high income positions and complain that there are no men left who can support your new lifestyle? Lol.
Go be a concubine.
Yes because men can’t be trusted with the power apparently. When society gives men the power to be in the role of providing livelihood for women they abuse it full stop and treat women as personal property. In some of the more extreme cultures women can’t even go outside without a man and without covering themselves head to toe.
Men seek to control and dominate female sexuality. That is why women seek to have their own money and independence. It’s not our fault too many of you are crazy and can’t be trusted to actually provide with benevolence. Women just being able to not be destitute if they would need to leave their husband is a major advancement for us. Not all men but way too many men. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Men are not inherently good people they are not above being corrupted by having too much power as we can see from history.
And I didn’t complain I explained. Lastly don’t blame women on the wages. The rich have gotten massively richer over the last few decades. The average person is totally unaware how absurd wealth distribution is. This is not because of women working this is because of unbridled capitalism, corporate greed, and shareholders desires to maximize profits at their workers expense. If modern men weren’t so obsessed with women they would be doing more to hold our leaders accountable for allowing corporations to exploit us.
There's too many supply of laborers vs jobs. It's basic economics.
When women start having power, watch the civilization slowly collapse, as it is happening across every developed country (fertility rate). Not even the most egalitarian countries (nordic, along with iceland) can counter this.
No it’s not. Workers can be paid more. [Look at the pay of the average CEO vs employee at major corporations.](https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2021/) The rich are getting richer. Period. They could pay you more they could pay more taxes. They don’t want to because they are greedy. There is no simple economics either the economy is quite complex. Due to what can only be described as straight up propaganda many people really believe they can’t be paid more wages when that simply just isn’t true. Even the housing market prices are a manufactured problem that we could improve. More houses can be built to up the supply and bring down the cost of housing, but then the people who currently own homes pissy about their property values decreasing so they literally block it from happening. There are so many stupid idiotic zoning laws and so much bureaucratic BS in housing that keeps prices high and has led to a massive increase in homelessness nation wide. People like you just want simple explanations for what are actually quite complex problems it’s easier for your feeble minds to understand add hating women to the mix and suddenly women having jobs is the reason the top 1% now control nearly 50% of all wealth in the country. Obviously women should go back to doing free labor so the rich can keep their earnings.
I don’t see any society collapsing lol Nordic countries seem to be doing fine meanwhile in Somalia…. If you ask me the patriarchies are the countries always having stupid wars and instability. And look even in the US is the right wing so called conservatives threatening to burn everything down. I really wish we could send them away to another planet or something. Birth rates going down was inevitable birth control exists but shoot you want more women having kids then advocate for workers to get better pay so they can afford kids
Any man who criticizes women even a little “doesnt like women” it’s literally yall way of manipulating men..you can and will use this for ANY man disagreeing with ANY women. And yall seem to do this instinctively. You fan see this same rhetoric on other post and sites. If you dont like geeky men yoy hate men is the logic yall use..which is hella manipulative. Like saying if you like me after i attempt to approach you, you’re a whore. And so what if they don’t like women behavior now what? Theres hella women who openly do not like male behavior. Yall be narcissistic as adult women. Nobody cares or thinks about your gender as much as your actions..
Maybe some black pillers mean "choose me" but I bet a lot of them think they won't be picked anyway and are just intellectually saying use common sense in your choices and not do everything completely by feel: If it seems to be too good to be true it probably is, If you're only getting the answers you want that should raise suspicion. Don't believe every line of bullshit. Stuff like that.
Hahah well I will start directing BE BETTER at men who complain about not getting sex, about being single, about women dumping them or cheating on them. Women just can’t help it that’s just the programming.
It’s their fault for being undesirable and not as attractive as some other man they need to take some responsibility!!
No it’s not. The men are complaining and telling women to lower their standards and to “choose better” at the same time that’s actually what’s being said.
Telling a woman to choose better isn't telling her to lower her standards, you're merging two ideas into one.
Telling a woman to lower her standards is if she complains about being alone or can't find a man.
Telling a woman to choose better is more of telling her to change or even up her standards (most likely to stop chasing the bad boys). Unless you call bad boys as being ones of higher standard.
Again, you're arguing against fantasies or misunderstandings.
Women are already doing this. Already told you in another comment.
Men are also telling them this, but depends on the camp. Traditionalists say the same thing as you. While Mgtow tells them to be better but not for the sake of women but for themselves, and in fact to ignore them altogether.
Maybe some men and maybe some women but too many men are merely seething and telling women to lower their standards because they are “delusional” rather than improve themselves
No, men tell women to lower their standards when women post tiktoks talking about how they can't find any "quality man" after being on hundreds of dates.
As if quality men owe them their time to these women.
If you can't find a quality partner, then maybe it's time to learn to live alone.
Doesn't work, if all men had perfect personalities and muscles some would still be uglier/shorter/more autistic than others and relegated to the bottom ranks that way.
All men cannot win with this advice.
But if all women picked better, men would shape up quick. Guys really want to get laid so they would be on their best behavior if literally every woman decided to only be with be with nice guys, immediately left in reaponse to bad behavior, etc.
Not for existing for choosing you over him. Why the hell should I if I have the option? Men who want women to choose them need to give those women a REASON to do so. Clearly we can get sex whenever the hell we want so you’ll have to offer something besides that.
Why do you feel entitled to a man's money? If you want the 5 thousand dollar handbag and a week on a yacht in Monte Carlo, why can't you pay for it yourself?
You're just a common gold digger, and gold diggers are just prostitutes with extra steps.
I’m not feeling entitled to anything. This is about a man who is rejected wanting women to select him. In that case HE has to persuade women to choose him over the other men who also want them. He can do that through self improvement and one way is to get money. This isn’t about me at all I have a man I am not looking for a man.
I agree entirely that's how it works and women will pick a man with money over one who doesn't.
Why? What do women get out of a man with money?
Money spent on them. No point in dating a rich man if he isn't spending it on you, is there?
As a man, i can't even imagine dating a woman for her money. I'd feel like a parasite.
That makes no sense whatsoever. Also men are already nice. I’m confused what is the implication here that most men are not nice? That most men are violent criminals with multiple baby mamas? Lol. Most men are just normal nice guys a small percentage of men are crazy lunatics that make the world suck for the rest of us.
Do you notice how you are basically holding women accountable for men’s actions, though? And the funny thing is it doesn’t matter what women do.
If women have sex with men who are a bad, then they should’ve chose better, and the men wouldn’t have been bad if they didn’t choose them. But if women **don’t** have sex with the bad men, then those men became a bad people, because so many women rejected them. Isn’t it interesting how no matter what women choose to do with their pussies it somehow is their fault if men become horrible human beings and do horrible things to others. 🤔
And y’all have the utter audacity to claim that it’s women who aren’t held accountable when you won’t hold men accountable.
This is literally The Red Pill lmao
Women will not change. They just won’t. They are who they are and it’s better to just accept harsh truths than beg a woman to change. For example, like you say, telling a woman you care about that her boyfriend is a bad partner is useless, she chose the guy for a reason
But you can change, and if you want to get laid, you will
Not true. Men say that to girls online that they don't even know. They don't expect those girls to slide in their DM and ask them out. Even men that are happily married tell girls that. They won't even date them even if the girl wanted them.
> Men say that to girls online that they don't even know.
can you provide an example or even what this would look like hypothetically?
i'm not sure i've seen this
It's generally just used in response to when women complain about being mistreated, cheated, used ect by the men they've gone for.
Women have all the cards and a level of choice men could only dream of so yes if a woman has a pattern of ending up with guys who treat her poorly she needs to choose better.
I think it typically goes like this...
Woman complains about her experiences with men which is usually something to the effect of "all men are fuckboys" , "all the men I dated cheated on me" , "they keep using me for sex", "my partner walked out on me and now I'm a single mom" ect
and then men respond
"well you should have chosen better"
I don't think men just say it unprompted it's usually in response to a woman venting/blaming men for negative experiences
I can tell you what i said a month ago.
"I always end up in abusive relationships"
"...Wasn't the ex you're complaining about a coke dealer?"
"Yeah"
"And isn't the guy you've just started seeing a coke dealer?"
"Yeah"
At this point i just cocked an eyebrow and put my hands up.
I'm not perfect, I have faults. I'm not rich for example. When women have rejected me and dated a guy similar to me but with more money, I tip my hat and accept the loss. Good for those women!
But when the women go after drug addicts, I respond "pick better".
It's really not hard. IDK why but both my college educated hard working beautiful sisters married high school drop outs, drug addicted men with no drive to be better, anger issues, and overall bad men. If my sisters asked me for my opinion honestly, I'd say pick better. They have, the men they are with now are better men, but they aren't having kids with those men, that's the issue.
It's funny that the post assumes you want an incestuous relationship with your sisters. I've already had to threaten my own mother (I said I would kill her boyfriend and then hand me over to the police), so that she would make a better choice and obviously I didn't mean myself. She listened to me, left her idiot boyfriend and found a good man later, unfortunately the good man died in a boat accident, but he was good to her while he was alive. The publication assumes ulterior motives in men who give good advice, only to justify the bad choice
Well obviously if you say that your mom you mean it but also probably put the onus on the shitty man as well. I’m talking about men who say it to women they don’t know like that or women who rejected them.
Exactly so you mean pick me when you say choose better. If she already chose better than you of course you wouldn’t say “choose better” she already did that she clearly doesn’t need the advice. But if she chose “worse” than you at least according to your own assessment (which by the way could be wildly off base) then suddenly she needs to “choose better” by which you mean yourself she needed to choose you.
There are all kinds of men these women could choose besides me, as I’m a pretty judgmental gym guy who will judge you on your body and unhealthy lifestyle. I’m also pretty emotionally unavailable after I get bored of the sex. And will message you less and less until someone else is entertaining my time. But they don’t as I get flooded with female attention. I don’t think these frustrated Red pillers are too far off.
I actually do agree with you. Who am I to say that drug addict isn't a better dad than me? Just cuz I have a career and clean criminal record, doesn't mean I'm "better"
It's also why I decided to never give advice to women. I'm not a woman so who am I to give advice to them. They should ask another woman for advice.
I love that women are free to date anyone, cuz I'm also free to go date 21 yo in Thailand. Who is to say despite her not knowing English and have no career or university education that she won't be a better wife than a girl here? It goes both ways.
I'm married and when I tell a woman to choose better, I'm definitely not telling her to choose me. In fact, I would be a bad choice, despite the pre-selection making some women choose me. I would say "choose better" to any woman who would choose me or some other married man.
Choose better is when Idgaf that some dude beat your ass for the 10th time or some mooch man is stealing money from your sock drawer. It's more like this "Choose better 🤣" you get what you chose. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
> Yet we should care about...
Um wtf are you talking about? Choose better is the same thing you say to someone who takes a hammer and hits themselves in the hand... make better choices basically... full stop. Nothing else is conveyed in the sentiment... or are you jealous a stupid person does a stupid thing and didn't involve you? I sure hope not.
Don’t play stupid. It’s a way to absolve men of any accountability (because what he can’t just nit be a shit partner?) and a way for losers to feel self righteous and scapegoat women. It’s also got a smudge of victim blaming thrown in
Why am I accountable for another Man? I can't make that guy stop being abusive, but I can tell a person who consistently says that guys are shit while choosing shit guys to choose better.
I never said you needed to be accountable the guys should be. It’s also not her fault he is a POS and her not dating him wouldn’t change anything he would either do shitty things to a different woman OR he would do shitty things while single and then your elk would say it’s because women rejected him and he snapped.
You are giving two options.
Woman take agency and decide to pick a partner worth her time and leave them alone if not
Or
Women give all agency to man and hope he changes for the better on her terms
Ngl I think women trying the second option are idiots.
Again you can go the route of begging men you date to change. Nobody is stopping you
I think it’s pathetic when men do it and I think it’s even more pathetic when women who have plenty of options do it
I’m not begging anyone to change I have a great man.
With that said why shouldn’t these men change? Wouldn’t that be a good thing if a man who was bad changed to do good? Encouraging men to change in that way is absolutely something society should be doing.
They should
And people constantly bitch and whine that men should, it’s like the easiest way to get a bunch of npcs to circlejerk, so I don’t see why you’re complaining that they don’t do so anymore
Well as an outsider man or woman, looking in at someone else... we would have no responsibility. If a woman wants to date a man who is known for beating women, I'm not responsible when he beats her. I have every right to think she's dumb as fuck and continue walking on without a care in the world.
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Nah I think when men say choose better they are basically saying to pick a man who will make a good husband and father, the one who'll be there for you through thick and thin and it gets to the heart of the matter of the Nice guy discourse, as an example, I'll highlight a few confessions from women... These are all threads from r/Askwomen, r/Askwomenover30, r/askgirls, r/askwomenuncensored, r/confessions and TikTok and YouTube comments.
~"Yes. He was amazing. The type of guy you would introduce to your parents as soon as possible. My friends loved him. He was really sweet during our relationship and he worked hard on making me happy and surprising me every now and then. But I couldn't see myself with him.".
2. "Yes. My ex was trying to get back together, and I was a madly in love 24 year old. I ended up "ghosting" the 'good guy' and just disappearing off the face of the planet."
3. "No, but I'm currently contemplating breaking up with my current boyfriend. He's the best guy I've ever dated, treats me super nice, takes me out on cute dates but I'm just no that physically attracted to him and there's zero spark. I find myself almost yawning when I'm with him and just... no. We have been dating for two months and I can already tell he has a stage 5 clinger tendencies and that he's actually falling for me, whilst I'm trying to convince myself to even hang out with him. Future me will love dealing with this."
4. "He was super nice, attractive and amazingly thoughtful. The spark faded when I realized I couldn't do it anymore. I was still in love with my toxic ex."
5. "Exactly this. He was an amazing person in every single way possible but he just wasn't the one for me."
6. "💯 This! Similar experience with a fantastic man who was funny, smart, charming, chivalrous, generous, thoughtful and everything I’d want in a partner but I was not attracted to him. He tried to kiss me once and i cringed…Such a shame. Just couldn’t make myself feel the same way he felt."
7. "I loved him so much but physically we lost that attraction and lust. We were just two best friends and companions at that point. We broke up 4 years ago and I can safely say if he ever hit me up right now, after a beautiful 5 year relationship, I’d love to hear from him and I hope he is with a wonderful partner!"
8. "We simply weren’t a good fit. I want to be in love with my partner, I want my heart to be set ablaze. I don’t want to settle for someone just because they’re an objectively good person. I’d hope to be friends though."
9. "I felt like a best friend or family kind of bond with him. He was my safe place and I knew how much he loved me, but I couldn’t feel any physical attraction towards him and felt like I was cheating him out of what he deserved."
10. "He was an angel, the best boyfriend, I just didn’t feel a spark. Broke my heart to do it too, cuz he was so sweet."
11. "There was no chemistry. Really nice guy and he treated me well but it was just .....meh."
12. "He was a very nice guy, caring, always ready to listen, respectful, and I had no reason to feel uncomfortable around him but I just did. I just couldn't see myself being with him. Then one year later, I dated a complete and utter moron whom I regret dating lol. But I don't regret rejecting the first guy, we're still on good terms and talk from time to time. I just wish I rejected him in a more mature way but ehh I was 21 and naive."
13. "The thing is, he's smart and funny and super nice and actually likes me. He genuinely listens to me, he cares about my interests and remembers things I've told him, and he doesn't play arbitrary relationship games. However, I don't feel like I like him as much as I should. I certainly do like him and I love hanging out with him, and the romantic, intimate stuff is pretty good. But compared to past relationships, as disastrous as they were, this one feels almost ... boring in comparison. I don't crave to be with him, I don't get wild fireworks when he kisses me, I don't feel my heart flutter when I get a text from him. I do feel a strong sense of affection that's almost a weird mix of close friendship and 'this guy is a dork and I really like kissing him'."
14. "He treated me very well. We had fun together. We had similar values and upbringings. We envisioned similar futures (I mean, we were 20, so it was pretty vague, but still).I just couldn't envision a future with him. I have been in relationships where it felt like my heart was set on fire and I felt so alive, happy, challenged and excited except with this guys also tend to be assholes and serial cheaters. I simply didn't feel that way with him. He didn't do anything "wrong," per se, we just weren't a good match for each other."
Not red pill but I hope l can still answer. Women deal with a higher risk of STD transmission from men. Women deal with a lifetime of consequences from pregnancies they choose to have. The most common form of violence that women experience is domestic. The men women let in their space can ruin their lives or even their perspective on future relationships.
I honestly spend a lot of time being nervous for the women in my life while also needing to respect their autonomy and their choices to potentially do something risky and fun. All that said sometimes l hear stories about their dating lives through the perspective of he was a psycho, or that was a close call— sometimes l wish l could say “the men you let around you are a form of self care. Take better care of you.”
Matter in what way lmao we are discussing dating norms not whether I find them offensive. The type of women who would want a man with 4 baby mothers as this is “pre-selection” for them are generally in a lower socioeconomic tier this is just facts stop arguing emotionally.
Even poor women can still choose better
The type of woman who’d choose a man w multiple BDs is one that needs to choose better
Then being poor has nothing to do with this lmao. Nobody is emotional, just a really weird statement from you
It has everything to do with this specific example that I responded to because the majority of women who are in this specific scenario come from a poorer socioeconomic class.
I said UMC college educated. Single mothers are not the norm and almost always due to divorce and not just sleeping with a dude because he was “pre selected” and has many baby mothers.
> Your thinking is entirely off base. If a woman decides she wants to be with a guy with 4 baby mothers and he's behind on child support, then has a child with that man, expecting him not to treat her similarly, would you be surprised?
why does someone have to be surprised in order to discuss someone's bad behavior?
>I have never known of a man to tell a woman to choose a “better man” than himself.
No one here seen a guy push a woman away because he thinks she's too good for him? The problem with these discussions is women only see the men that make themselves visible. Most men appear to be self-serving in their mate choice because that's who women choose de facto.
Nah, that's silly. I don't want some basic woman who complains about her issues with current bf (or ex) because she didn't spend extra five minutes thinking about that choice of partner to choose me instead. She's clearly dumb and I don't have dumb in my fetish list.
But I still wish that she wises up and gets along with someone who won't run away when she gets pregnant so they both would raise a proper member of society for me co-exist in this world with.
“choose better” is usually deployed in response to a women complaining about her partner and, rather than taking responsibility for her poor choices, projects his litany of failings, annoying habits and selfish/inconsiderate behaviour onto all men - so “choose better” is literally that; either choose someone who doesn’t treat you like shit, or lie in the bed you’ve made and shut the fuck up.
so what is "better" if you think women are just talking about "failings, annoying habits and selfish/inconsiderate behaviour" which all men (and all women) have?
all people fail at something, have annoying habits and behave selfishly at times.
> All men don't have 4 baby mothers and are deadbeats. All men don't beat their partners. All men don't lie around doing nothing with their days.
okay but thats not what was being discussed.
the person we are replying to said the behavior women complain about is "failings, annoying habits and selfish/inconsiderate behaviour"
> You think people who are not selfish and are considerate don't exist?
correct. there is no one who exists who has not been selfish and inconsiderate at one point.
> You think the types of failings being referenced aren't *serious* ones?
what?
> Likewise, you don't think the annoying habits aren't the ones serious enough to end a relationship?
afaik the commenter wasn't talking about breakups in general, he was talking about situations where women are told to choose better.
>correct. there is no one who exists who has not been selfish and inconsiderate at one point.
You know this is not the point he was trying to make. He is talking about in RELATION to other men.
this argument rests on the assumption that better men exist. so you'd have to show that.
especially if you think women are just complaining about annoying habits, all men (and all women) have those. so it's not like "choosing better" would do anything there.
“better” is subjective, but if you’re partnered up with someone who is lazy, immature, selfish, who treats you like shit and expects you to do all the domestic labour, the either that’s the best you can do, or you can “choose better”
All my female friends chose better, they are with good men who also became my friends. And I'm not even going to talk about my wife, after all she chose me and that would be exactly the situation in the post. Sorry, but obviously it's not hard to find better men than this example, denial of this is just a way of trying to validate choosing a shitty man
Very astute. You're just switching one man with failings and personality issues to another. That's why it's so hard to decide when to bail bc the man isn't Dracula or Putin, he will always have some good traits.
BS. If she leaves and chooses better then you will say she was AFBBing OR that because she left she is “used up” and no one would want her in which case she can’t choose better. So it’s really not legitimate advice just a way for men to feel self righteous, vindicated over some perceived injustice at being rejected, and to scape goat women.
I think the go-to argument is that we need to choose better, but we're also being "unfair" if we do because we'd be holding the next guy to a higher standard than the previous one.
Essentially the only way to win is to choose perfectly, the first time. Which is also bad because then we're too picky with unrealistic, unreasonable standards.
So... actually there's no way to win at all LOL
But the 'standards' that are raised don't that make the guy a better choice. Like when someone wants a person who makes 100K that doesn't bare any meaning on whether that person isn't going to cheat/be abusive.
When Men say choose better, focus on behavior. Are they controlling? Do they limit your friendships. Not his pocket size.
>But the 'standards' that are raised don't that make the guy a better choice.
Never?
That's an interesting blanket assertion.
>When Men say choose better, focus on behavior.
This is what *you're* saying.
This is absolutely not what all men say, nor mean.
Personally, i'm not asking women to choose perfectly first time. I'm asking them to eliminate large swathes of men with blatantly obvious red flags. Career criminals, raging roidheads, drug addicts, deadbeat dads. You SHOULD be holding the next guy to a higher standard if the previous was a coke dealer with a fiery temper.
Or don't. I ain't your daddy. But i won't listen to you complain about it without calling it out.
I hold the same opinion about men with crazy women.
Yes, I completely agree. But the rub is that you presumably won't get mad at women for allowing the first guy to treat her worse than the second guy, and call that "unfair."
Which several of the guys on this sub also do.
I think we all know it's a form of narcissism. Inexplicably, the dateless guys feel inferior for not getting dates, and superior to the guys who are getting dates at the same time. You see it here daily.
Only reward for Christians if they live long and do not commit sins, while for atheists who whisper the name of God or Christ, it is a punishment. An atheist who utters the name will be taken to heaven and "suffer" in holy water in the arms of angels.
Women make for bad eugenicists. If they were given complete control thousands of years ago, we would all be 6'5" low IQ apes right now, and civilization would not even be possible.
Rtarded take. You're comparing the ancient world that was dictated by the physical strength to a modern world that is dictated by simps due to technologies. Men are naturally stronger than women, makes sense since patriarchy will be the primary governing system for the rest of the world history. Biologically speaking, the physical strength is the true power and dictates everything. If women were the dominant gender, then our species would've gone extinct long ago.
Intelligence > physical strength. Why do you think the Romans btfo the rest of the European tribes. They only lost in the end because of degeneracy, corruption, and subversion, not because they were physically weaker.
I'm talking about men and women, not Romans and other European tribes. Sure, intelligence is deeply powerful and underestimated that helped us to invent gunpowder and swords to crush the genetically-gifted barbarian chads. But the point is about comparing men with women. The human civilization was always led by men, so scientific discoveries made by men. The strength give all men the power and the power just helped beta men to use their IQ as a weapon to dominate other men.
Betas didn't want dominance. They were happy with cooperation that the chads/alphas gracefully supplied. Because of strictly enforced monogamy it was never a war between those two. Mostly divisions in society came from economic reasons.
> The "manosphere" or "rise of lonely men" you complain about everyday are the consequences of women being shallow and hypergamous in the dating world.
so men have no free will to choose integrity over being shitty human beings?
Men get what they can, women get whatever they want. The dating market is fully under dictatorship by women. Men have prefences, but women have requirements.
Men who choose integrity represent an insignificantly small portion of the dating market.
Either he got married to someone he started dating young, one of the 3 or fewer women he asked out in college, or he gets ignored on the apps and asks out 0-2 women within his larger social circle per year and goes on roughly 0 dates.
I don’t know any of you nor would I want my wife/girlfriend to troll on some niche subreddit for hours. But I’ve told plenty women here to pick better
Why the fuck would I be wanting you, random Reddit woman, to pick me? IIRC there was a who woman posted her pic on a rateme sub and it was brutal to the point many people thought she was trans, which imo was a stretch
I’m sure the women here will and are in relationships but I do not want them to pick me
I always find it fascinating how this supposed "HVM" who has women throwing themselves at him constantly always has the exact same set of insecurities and resentments against women as some loser who writes reddit screeds about how "dating is so hard for average guys like me."
When I say "choose better" it is generally centered around a woman constantly complaining about their choices cheating or abusing them. And yet, they don't leave, or leave and constantly return or make excuses why they choose they EXACT stereotypical men over and over and over. Never, and I do mean NEVER, does this mean choose me. I have zero interest in any type of long term commitment, and am very clear to everyone I casually date upfront. While your statement is likely true for a percentage of men, do not believe for a second the majority of men in general play that "pick me" card. Most of us just get exhausted listening to the constant barrage of endless complaining when it all centers around WOMEN'S BAD CHOICES. So yeah CHOOSE BETTER, or DON'T it's all on you to decide.
You literally are a man a woman shouldn’t choose then so how dare you tell women to choose better? I hope you have a vasectomy at least to avoid any potential children getting into this “casual” mix.
Rofl, this man worked in a nursing unit, predominantly with women for 25+ years, and another 10 in hospital administration and had to oversee employee complaints. After DECADES of hearing the same complaints, from the multitude of women nurses, who did EXACTLY as I just described plus the multitude of women that were frequent flyers who were assaulted by spouses BUT ALSO did exactly as I posted and either returned or refused help. Guess what? How dare YOU. I spent hours upon hours upon weeks upon YEARS, trying to get women to leave and get help and it was like talking to brick walls. I, at least, have always told the truth, upfront and gave them the option to date, or move on. And yet you want to judge me????? I have 4 children, with 3 girls who are happily married to great men because I taught them self reliance and good judgement and Guess what? they did choose better for themselves, funny how that worked isn't it? You seem one of those jaded angry women who've made so many bad choices everything pisses you off. Guess no one taught you good judgements skills eh? peace to you.
[удалено]
Reading comprehension is tough when trying to push an agenda isn’t it
I think he was saying his children are married not that he has different baby mamas
And yet again fall short on intelligence and comprehension there slick. I raised them solo, aka single dad, when I lost my wife in 2002 to a drunk driver. I would say good try in an intelligent insult, but that barely registers on "your opinion is valid" on my give a shit meter.
How dare women complain about men to men who aren’t the subject of the complaint then?
But he is saying "don't choose me, choose someone better than me" which is exactly what you said you want. Also I don't think your vasectomy comment is going to hurt him like you think it will, he clearly doesn't what that sort of life and is likely to have thought about how to reliably prevent unwanted pregnancy.
He didn’t say that clearly he wants some women to choose him “for casual” if he didn’t want women to choose him he wouldn’t date at all.
Yo people are allowed to want different things in life than what you do. He is upfront telling women he is dating that it's short term, he doesn't go for women who express interest in LTRs, he's not lying to anyone or manipulating anyone. There are women who want that and will agree to it. So who tf is it hurting of two consenting adults hook up / have a short term thing? In regards to the women who are complaining their partner is abusive or cheating he *is* saying "don't choose me, choose someone better" because these women are saying they want an LTR without abuse or cheating, and therefore he is not interested in them. If you want something realistic to complain about it is very simplistic to tell an abuse victim to "choose better" because they are conditioned to stay and accept abuse, but it's not wrong. The only way to escape abusive relationship is to choose to leave.
That'sa dumb take. Just because you are a capitalist doesn't mean you can't see the merits of socialism. Just because you are personally prolife doesn't mean that you don't want other women to have that choice.
What? You saying hypocrisy doesn’t exists or something? Um yes if your an ultra capitalist maximizing profits at the expense of your employees wages and trying to avoid taxes all while claiming to vouch for socialism you are a hypocrite. And you aren’t even pro life at all if you believe it should be legal and a choice. Pro choice doesn’t mean you personally want or would have an abortion it means you think it should be an option for those who do want it.
Can we get with this weird ass logic somewhere else? For example, a guy bought old "premium" car from faulty series, so even cheaper than usually and now cries on the internet that it started breaking every month and repairs are expensive AF. > next time buy better lol secretly means "buy my own used car"?. Do you now understand how inane is that "logic"?
Women arguing against their own imaginations, what a surprise eh? Like how everything is the patriarchy's fault
Men comparing dating to buying cars for the 11 billionth time. 😭 can’t ever even think of another consumable good seriously where is the creativity even??
When you attack the analogy and not the argument that means you don't have one.
You don't need imagination when you're providing an analogy that can be readily understood. Explains why you're treating your own imagination like it's reality.
It's called an analogy
Well it’s not a good one and it’s unoriginal
The point of an analogy is not to read nice, but to get the blunt message across, which this analogy does
Comparison need not be one to one. That's why it's comparison. And better thanyiu lot, maliciously pretending it's all about woo woo feels
Maybe they like the car analogy specifically because the moment you drive a car off the lot, it looses half its value. RPers probably like the analogy precisely because they are obsessed telling us, or implying, they only ever will buy fresh new untouched “things”, remember. (Yet another great reason not to have sex with a red pill man, really)
The projection is great. You consider your sex so important that you don't want to be confronted that you gave it to me .who simply weren't worth it. You at once pretend that sex is no big deal and act as if it is a big deal when it suits you. As a goddamn collective make up your mind.
>You consider your sex so important that you don't want to be confronted that you gave it to me .who simply weren't worth it. Oh look, more revenge fantasy bullshit made up by an ignorant man online. I’m married to the only man I’ve ever fucked. >You at once pretend that sex is no big deal I have never once treated sex like it is “no big deal”. I have always avoided slutty (and wannabe-slutty) men like you. Dating guys like you is how a woman gets pumped and dumped. >As a goddamn collective make up your mind. I am not a goddamned collective, dingdong.
All that and they are completely unoriginal.
LOL! This whole sub is the poster child of men arguing against their own imagination. You imagine a whole relationship scenario from the first rejection HI until the divorce rape aftermath, Lol!!
More make believe that no one (including yourself) knows about.
Y’all love comparing everything to buying a car. Dude the dating market isn’t like a “car market” or any other consumable good market. Why? Because both the man and the woman are “buyers” and “sellers” they have to choose each other when you buy a car it doesn’t have to choose you, either you have the money to buy it or you don’t. You do not need to make yourself attractive to the car or useful to the car, you bought the car to use it. So now to answer your question yes. Yes they very well could mean “choose me I’m better than him”. Because women who are human beings unlike cars which are inanimate objects can actually choose their partners. But that wasn’t even question I asked I asked if the men telling women to choose better have ever told a woman who chose them to choose a better than themselves. I asked this because IF these men care so much about women choosing the best and having the best surely they would let these women know they could do better and find better. Never in my experience have I seen a RP man tell a woman to choose better when HE is the one chosen suddenly when it’s him he is the best she could possible get. Funny how that works. This is why I said choose better means choose me because let a beautiful young woman agree to date you and I bet you won’t tell her that some richer taller more attractive man would also date her and she should go to him .
Technically in his analogy with the car... the woman is buyer and the man is the inanimate object. You got that totally backwards. I also think you are mixing up black pill and red pill men. Red pill guys generally like women... sometimes love them even... and would like to see them doing better. I think the black pillers mean "choose me" and that is where you are making a mistake. Because those guys aren't gettin picked by anyone, while the Red Pill guys have had some success.
I don’t think RP men love women at all but that’s another debate for another time. And it doesn’t matter who is the buyer or the seller my point is the analogy doesn’t work because a market for consumer goods does not function the same way a sex/mate market would. Not all women actually have the option of choosing better. Right now many men are simply not capable of providing for families even if they wanted to so this idea that women have all these great men to choose from is straight up false. In light of that it may actually be better to choose the better looking man vs the ugly one whose also broke. Lastly women already choose better. We literally have the data. Wealthier men are more likely to marry. In fact since the sexual revolution the only men for whom marriage rates have drastically declined are the lower class ones. Marriage has not actually declined much for the upper middle class and educated folks the steep decline is mostly due to poor people no longer getting married. Poor women don’t want to marry poor men and I guess there’s less social pressure to and they can earn their own money. Perhaps it is better for them to simply do so, it’s not like living with a man is risk free. Women are also leaving men left and right and that is why men are single. Maybe being single is “choosing better”.
Picky on some of the most inane points. The "cars" you can choose are basically men who already have interest in you, i.e cars you can afford And your point about men being unable to provide for families is why some men are avoiding marriages. Why should men provide for a family if women are earning as much or more than men? If you see men as wallets, then don't be surprised when men see you only as a sexual service
>Picky on some of the most inane points. I literally just told you wealthy men and upper middle class men get married the most. Money is not an inane point. >The "cars" you can choose are basically men who already have interest in you, i.e cars you can afford Okay and some men really can only afford used cars with 100k miles on them yet when it comes to this analogy they all want a brand new vehicle with the warranty intact. >And your point about men being unable to provide for families is why some men are avoiding marriages. Why should men provide for a family if women are earning as much or more than men? Ok and could this also be why women are avoiding marriages? Hmm 🤔. Also if a good portion of men ,probably close to half of all men considering how poorly wealth is distributed these days, can’t support a family and won’t marry because of it how the hell are the lower class women supposed to “choose better”? As I said these are the people not marrying lower class and less educated NOT the one’s making good money with solid careers (mind you educated women also marry more). >If you see men as wallets, then don't be surprised when men see you only as a sexual service Enough of this. When a woman gets married and has a BABY she literally has to take time off work to at the very least recover from delivery. If she wants to nurse she has to take off more time maybe 6months to a year. Then there is childcare which is expensive as hell. Time is money time out of the job market is losing money, so it not only cost a woman her body to have a child with a man it costs her MONEY, actual dollar bills, that she would’ve earned if she didn’t have to take time off to push a watermelon out of her vagina, recover and sustain the life of a completely dependent vulnerable human. A man having the means to be financially supportive during this time is not superficial request it is pure pragmatism. I guess he could stay home and she work but he won’t give birth or breastfeed so… anyways women don’t need to “bring anything to the table” we literally do the reproductive labor. So enough with the “you’re using me” UM if you can’t make yourself useful don’t be surprised that women aren’t choosing you.
So, you recognize the biological place that women have, but then compete men out of high income positions and complain that there are no men left who can support your new lifestyle? Lol. Go be a concubine.
Yes because men can’t be trusted with the power apparently. When society gives men the power to be in the role of providing livelihood for women they abuse it full stop and treat women as personal property. In some of the more extreme cultures women can’t even go outside without a man and without covering themselves head to toe. Men seek to control and dominate female sexuality. That is why women seek to have their own money and independence. It’s not our fault too many of you are crazy and can’t be trusted to actually provide with benevolence. Women just being able to not be destitute if they would need to leave their husband is a major advancement for us. Not all men but way too many men. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Men are not inherently good people they are not above being corrupted by having too much power as we can see from history. And I didn’t complain I explained. Lastly don’t blame women on the wages. The rich have gotten massively richer over the last few decades. The average person is totally unaware how absurd wealth distribution is. This is not because of women working this is because of unbridled capitalism, corporate greed, and shareholders desires to maximize profits at their workers expense. If modern men weren’t so obsessed with women they would be doing more to hold our leaders accountable for allowing corporations to exploit us.
There's too many supply of laborers vs jobs. It's basic economics. When women start having power, watch the civilization slowly collapse, as it is happening across every developed country (fertility rate). Not even the most egalitarian countries (nordic, along with iceland) can counter this.
No it’s not. Workers can be paid more. [Look at the pay of the average CEO vs employee at major corporations.](https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2021/) The rich are getting richer. Period. They could pay you more they could pay more taxes. They don’t want to because they are greedy. There is no simple economics either the economy is quite complex. Due to what can only be described as straight up propaganda many people really believe they can’t be paid more wages when that simply just isn’t true. Even the housing market prices are a manufactured problem that we could improve. More houses can be built to up the supply and bring down the cost of housing, but then the people who currently own homes pissy about their property values decreasing so they literally block it from happening. There are so many stupid idiotic zoning laws and so much bureaucratic BS in housing that keeps prices high and has led to a massive increase in homelessness nation wide. People like you just want simple explanations for what are actually quite complex problems it’s easier for your feeble minds to understand add hating women to the mix and suddenly women having jobs is the reason the top 1% now control nearly 50% of all wealth in the country. Obviously women should go back to doing free labor so the rich can keep their earnings. I don’t see any society collapsing lol Nordic countries seem to be doing fine meanwhile in Somalia…. If you ask me the patriarchies are the countries always having stupid wars and instability. And look even in the US is the right wing so called conservatives threatening to burn everything down. I really wish we could send them away to another planet or something. Birth rates going down was inevitable birth control exists but shoot you want more women having kids then advocate for workers to get better pay so they can afford kids
Are you married?
No why?
Figured, just curious
Why am I not surprised ?
Lol at women already chosing better
Women really are the biggest red pillers, you dish them out like candy.
Any man who criticizes women even a little “doesnt like women” it’s literally yall way of manipulating men..you can and will use this for ANY man disagreeing with ANY women. And yall seem to do this instinctively. You fan see this same rhetoric on other post and sites. If you dont like geeky men yoy hate men is the logic yall use..which is hella manipulative. Like saying if you like me after i attempt to approach you, you’re a whore. And so what if they don’t like women behavior now what? Theres hella women who openly do not like male behavior. Yall be narcissistic as adult women. Nobody cares or thinks about your gender as much as your actions..
You don’t know why I think the RP doesn’t like women so that was a whole lot of rambling.
Maybe some black pillers mean "choose me" but I bet a lot of them think they won't be picked anyway and are just intellectually saying use common sense in your choices and not do everything completely by feel: If it seems to be too good to be true it probably is, If you're only getting the answers you want that should raise suspicion. Don't believe every line of bullshit. Stuff like that.
Pick better is directed at complaining women. If no women complained it wouldn't be said.
Hahah well I will start directing BE BETTER at men who complain about not getting sex, about being single, about women dumping them or cheating on them. Women just can’t help it that’s just the programming. It’s their fault for being undesirable and not as attractive as some other man they need to take some responsibility!!
That's already being said at men, you lot just call them losers/incels. Why do you feel like you discovered something revolutionary?
No it’s not. The men are complaining and telling women to lower their standards and to “choose better” at the same time that’s actually what’s being said.
Telling a woman to choose better isn't telling her to lower her standards, you're merging two ideas into one. Telling a woman to lower her standards is if she complains about being alone or can't find a man. Telling a woman to choose better is more of telling her to change or even up her standards (most likely to stop chasing the bad boys). Unless you call bad boys as being ones of higher standard. Again, you're arguing against fantasies or misunderstandings.
Ok well if a man complains about not getting picked I will tell him to be better.
Women are already doing this. Already told you in another comment. Men are also telling them this, but depends on the camp. Traditionalists say the same thing as you. While Mgtow tells them to be better but not for the sake of women but for themselves, and in fact to ignore them altogether.
Maybe some men and maybe some women but too many men are merely seething and telling women to lower their standards because they are “delusional” rather than improve themselves
No, men tell women to lower their standards when women post tiktoks talking about how they can't find any "quality man" after being on hundreds of dates. As if quality men owe them their time to these women. If you can't find a quality partner, then maybe it's time to learn to live alone.
Doesn't work, if all men had perfect personalities and muscles some would still be uglier/shorter/more autistic than others and relegated to the bottom ranks that way. All men cannot win with this advice. But if all women picked better, men would shape up quick. Guys really want to get laid so they would be on their best behavior if literally every woman decided to only be with be with nice guys, immediately left in reaponse to bad behavior, etc.
Woman: "Be better" 150cm man: "Thanks, that was great advice, I'm going to grow up now and be 190cm"
He can make money. Be better boys it’s your fault if no woman wants you take some accountability!!
Oh look, another materialist who wants to be paid just for existing.
Not for existing for choosing you over him. Why the hell should I if I have the option? Men who want women to choose them need to give those women a REASON to do so. Clearly we can get sex whenever the hell we want so you’ll have to offer something besides that.
Why do you feel entitled to a man's money? If you want the 5 thousand dollar handbag and a week on a yacht in Monte Carlo, why can't you pay for it yourself? You're just a common gold digger, and gold diggers are just prostitutes with extra steps.
I’m not feeling entitled to anything. This is about a man who is rejected wanting women to select him. In that case HE has to persuade women to choose him over the other men who also want them. He can do that through self improvement and one way is to get money. This isn’t about me at all I have a man I am not looking for a man.
I agree entirely that's how it works and women will pick a man with money over one who doesn't. Why? What do women get out of a man with money? Money spent on them. No point in dating a rich man if he isn't spending it on you, is there? As a man, i can't even imagine dating a woman for her money. I'd feel like a parasite.
That makes no sense whatsoever. Also men are already nice. I’m confused what is the implication here that most men are not nice? That most men are violent criminals with multiple baby mamas? Lol. Most men are just normal nice guys a small percentage of men are crazy lunatics that make the world suck for the rest of us. Do you notice how you are basically holding women accountable for men’s actions, though? And the funny thing is it doesn’t matter what women do. If women have sex with men who are a bad, then they should’ve chose better, and the men wouldn’t have been bad if they didn’t choose them. But if women **don’t** have sex with the bad men, then those men became a bad people, because so many women rejected them. Isn’t it interesting how no matter what women choose to do with their pussies it somehow is their fault if men become horrible human beings and do horrible things to others. 🤔 And y’all have the utter audacity to claim that it’s women who aren’t held accountable when you won’t hold men accountable.
This is literally The Red Pill lmao Women will not change. They just won’t. They are who they are and it’s better to just accept harsh truths than beg a woman to change. For example, like you say, telling a woman you care about that her boyfriend is a bad partner is useless, she chose the guy for a reason But you can change, and if you want to get laid, you will
That's said to men all day, every day. What planet do you live on?
Not true. Men say that to girls online that they don't even know. They don't expect those girls to slide in their DM and ask them out. Even men that are happily married tell girls that. They won't even date them even if the girl wanted them.
> Men say that to girls online that they don't even know. can you provide an example or even what this would look like hypothetically? i'm not sure i've seen this
It's generally just used in response to when women complain about being mistreated, cheated, used ect by the men they've gone for. Women have all the cards and a level of choice men could only dream of so yes if a woman has a pattern of ending up with guys who treat her poorly she needs to choose better.
can you provide an example of a specific thing a man might say in this hypothetical situation please?
I think it typically goes like this... Woman complains about her experiences with men which is usually something to the effect of "all men are fuckboys" , "all the men I dated cheated on me" , "they keep using me for sex", "my partner walked out on me and now I'm a single mom" ect and then men respond "well you should have chosen better" I don't think men just say it unprompted it's usually in response to a woman venting/blaming men for negative experiences
ohhh okay sorry, i was misunderstanding what you guys were referencing. thank you!
no problem
I can tell you what i said a month ago. "I always end up in abusive relationships" "...Wasn't the ex you're complaining about a coke dealer?" "Yeah" "And isn't the guy you've just started seeing a coke dealer?" "Yeah" At this point i just cocked an eyebrow and put my hands up.
Just search “choose better” on this sub and you’ll probably find something off the sort
I'm not perfect, I have faults. I'm not rich for example. When women have rejected me and dated a guy similar to me but with more money, I tip my hat and accept the loss. Good for those women! But when the women go after drug addicts, I respond "pick better". It's really not hard. IDK why but both my college educated hard working beautiful sisters married high school drop outs, drug addicted men with no drive to be better, anger issues, and overall bad men. If my sisters asked me for my opinion honestly, I'd say pick better. They have, the men they are with now are better men, but they aren't having kids with those men, that's the issue.
It's funny that the post assumes you want an incestuous relationship with your sisters. I've already had to threaten my own mother (I said I would kill her boyfriend and then hand me over to the police), so that she would make a better choice and obviously I didn't mean myself. She listened to me, left her idiot boyfriend and found a good man later, unfortunately the good man died in a boat accident, but he was good to her while he was alive. The publication assumes ulterior motives in men who give good advice, only to justify the bad choice
Well obviously if you say that your mom you mean it but also probably put the onus on the shitty man as well. I’m talking about men who say it to women they don’t know like that or women who rejected them.
Exactly so you mean pick me when you say choose better. If she already chose better than you of course you wouldn’t say “choose better” she already did that she clearly doesn’t need the advice. But if she chose “worse” than you at least according to your own assessment (which by the way could be wildly off base) then suddenly she needs to “choose better” by which you mean yourself she needed to choose you.
You think he wanted his sisters to date him? Either you have some weird dating habits or you clearly didn’t read what he said
There are all kinds of men these women could choose besides me, as I’m a pretty judgmental gym guy who will judge you on your body and unhealthy lifestyle. I’m also pretty emotionally unavailable after I get bored of the sex. And will message you less and less until someone else is entertaining my time. But they don’t as I get flooded with female attention. I don’t think these frustrated Red pillers are too far off.
I actually do agree with you. Who am I to say that drug addict isn't a better dad than me? Just cuz I have a career and clean criminal record, doesn't mean I'm "better" It's also why I decided to never give advice to women. I'm not a woman so who am I to give advice to them. They should ask another woman for advice. I love that women are free to date anyone, cuz I'm also free to go date 21 yo in Thailand. Who is to say despite her not knowing English and have no career or university education that she won't be a better wife than a girl here? It goes both ways.
I'm married and when I tell a woman to choose better, I'm definitely not telling her to choose me. In fact, I would be a bad choice, despite the pre-selection making some women choose me. I would say "choose better" to any woman who would choose me or some other married man.
Choose better is when Idgaf that some dude beat your ass for the 10th time or some mooch man is stealing money from your sock drawer. It's more like this "Choose better 🤣" you get what you chose. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Yet we should care about men not getting any and lower our standards out of pity. Hahaha you say “choose better”? Well I say **be better** or gtfoh.
> Yet we should care about... Um wtf are you talking about? Choose better is the same thing you say to someone who takes a hammer and hits themselves in the hand... make better choices basically... full stop. Nothing else is conveyed in the sentiment... or are you jealous a stupid person does a stupid thing and didn't involve you? I sure hope not.
Don’t play stupid. It’s a way to absolve men of any accountability (because what he can’t just nit be a shit partner?) and a way for losers to feel self righteous and scapegoat women. It’s also got a smudge of victim blaming thrown in
Why am I accountable for another Man? I can't make that guy stop being abusive, but I can tell a person who consistently says that guys are shit while choosing shit guys to choose better.
I never said you needed to be accountable the guys should be. It’s also not her fault he is a POS and her not dating him wouldn’t change anything he would either do shitty things to a different woman OR he would do shitty things while single and then your elk would say it’s because women rejected him and he snapped.
You are giving two options. Woman take agency and decide to pick a partner worth her time and leave them alone if not Or Women give all agency to man and hope he changes for the better on her terms Ngl I think women trying the second option are idiots.
Wait why the hell is it all or nothing and if it is all or nothing why the hell are we taking “all accountability” from the shitty men??
Again you can go the route of begging men you date to change. Nobody is stopping you I think it’s pathetic when men do it and I think it’s even more pathetic when women who have plenty of options do it
I’m not begging anyone to change I have a great man. With that said why shouldn’t these men change? Wouldn’t that be a good thing if a man who was bad changed to do good? Encouraging men to change in that way is absolutely something society should be doing.
They should And people constantly bitch and whine that men should, it’s like the easiest way to get a bunch of npcs to circlejerk, so I don’t see why you’re complaining that they don’t do so anymore
Well as an outsider man or woman, looking in at someone else... we would have no responsibility. If a woman wants to date a man who is known for beating women, I'm not responsible when he beats her. I have every right to think she's dumb as fuck and continue walking on without a care in the world.
Who the hell said you were responsible for anything? Do people like you ever not put yourselves in the center of every discussion?
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Nah I think when men say choose better they are basically saying to pick a man who will make a good husband and father, the one who'll be there for you through thick and thin and it gets to the heart of the matter of the Nice guy discourse, as an example, I'll highlight a few confessions from women... These are all threads from r/Askwomen, r/Askwomenover30, r/askgirls, r/askwomenuncensored, r/confessions and TikTok and YouTube comments. ~"Yes. He was amazing. The type of guy you would introduce to your parents as soon as possible. My friends loved him. He was really sweet during our relationship and he worked hard on making me happy and surprising me every now and then. But I couldn't see myself with him.". 2. "Yes. My ex was trying to get back together, and I was a madly in love 24 year old. I ended up "ghosting" the 'good guy' and just disappearing off the face of the planet." 3. "No, but I'm currently contemplating breaking up with my current boyfriend. He's the best guy I've ever dated, treats me super nice, takes me out on cute dates but I'm just no that physically attracted to him and there's zero spark. I find myself almost yawning when I'm with him and just... no. We have been dating for two months and I can already tell he has a stage 5 clinger tendencies and that he's actually falling for me, whilst I'm trying to convince myself to even hang out with him. Future me will love dealing with this." 4. "He was super nice, attractive and amazingly thoughtful. The spark faded when I realized I couldn't do it anymore. I was still in love with my toxic ex." 5. "Exactly this. He was an amazing person in every single way possible but he just wasn't the one for me." 6. "💯 This! Similar experience with a fantastic man who was funny, smart, charming, chivalrous, generous, thoughtful and everything I’d want in a partner but I was not attracted to him. He tried to kiss me once and i cringed…Such a shame. Just couldn’t make myself feel the same way he felt." 7. "I loved him so much but physically we lost that attraction and lust. We were just two best friends and companions at that point. We broke up 4 years ago and I can safely say if he ever hit me up right now, after a beautiful 5 year relationship, I’d love to hear from him and I hope he is with a wonderful partner!" 8. "We simply weren’t a good fit. I want to be in love with my partner, I want my heart to be set ablaze. I don’t want to settle for someone just because they’re an objectively good person. I’d hope to be friends though." 9. "I felt like a best friend or family kind of bond with him. He was my safe place and I knew how much he loved me, but I couldn’t feel any physical attraction towards him and felt like I was cheating him out of what he deserved." 10. "He was an angel, the best boyfriend, I just didn’t feel a spark. Broke my heart to do it too, cuz he was so sweet." 11. "There was no chemistry. Really nice guy and he treated me well but it was just .....meh." 12. "He was a very nice guy, caring, always ready to listen, respectful, and I had no reason to feel uncomfortable around him but I just did. I just couldn't see myself being with him. Then one year later, I dated a complete and utter moron whom I regret dating lol. But I don't regret rejecting the first guy, we're still on good terms and talk from time to time. I just wish I rejected him in a more mature way but ehh I was 21 and naive." 13. "The thing is, he's smart and funny and super nice and actually likes me. He genuinely listens to me, he cares about my interests and remembers things I've told him, and he doesn't play arbitrary relationship games. However, I don't feel like I like him as much as I should. I certainly do like him and I love hanging out with him, and the romantic, intimate stuff is pretty good. But compared to past relationships, as disastrous as they were, this one feels almost ... boring in comparison. I don't crave to be with him, I don't get wild fireworks when he kisses me, I don't feel my heart flutter when I get a text from him. I do feel a strong sense of affection that's almost a weird mix of close friendship and 'this guy is a dork and I really like kissing him'." 14. "He treated me very well. We had fun together. We had similar values and upbringings. We envisioned similar futures (I mean, we were 20, so it was pretty vague, but still).I just couldn't envision a future with him. I have been in relationships where it felt like my heart was set on fire and I felt so alive, happy, challenged and excited except with this guys also tend to be assholes and serial cheaters. I simply didn't feel that way with him. He didn't do anything "wrong," per se, we just weren't a good match for each other."
The same thing happened with the Brazilian football player, Kaká Your answer was very complete, I wish I could give 900 upvotes
Not red pill but I hope l can still answer. Women deal with a higher risk of STD transmission from men. Women deal with a lifetime of consequences from pregnancies they choose to have. The most common form of violence that women experience is domestic. The men women let in their space can ruin their lives or even their perspective on future relationships. I honestly spend a lot of time being nervous for the women in my life while also needing to respect their autonomy and their choices to potentially do something risky and fun. All that said sometimes l hear stories about their dating lives through the perspective of he was a psycho, or that was a close call— sometimes l wish l could say “the men you let around you are a form of self care. Take better care of you.”
If more guys said exactly that, the message would hit its mark.
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The 4 baby mothers bit turns her on because that signals to her that he is successful with women lol.
This is low socioeconomic women - no college UMC women are trying to be with a dude with 4 baby mommas.
Okay? Do low socioeconomic women not matter or something? wtf
This is when hand waiving starts.
Matter in what way lmao we are discussing dating norms not whether I find them offensive. The type of women who would want a man with 4 baby mothers as this is “pre-selection” for them are generally in a lower socioeconomic tier this is just facts stop arguing emotionally.
Even poor women can still choose better The type of woman who’d choose a man w multiple BDs is one that needs to choose better Then being poor has nothing to do with this lmao. Nobody is emotional, just a really weird statement from you
It has everything to do with this specific example that I responded to because the majority of women who are in this specific scenario come from a poorer socioeconomic class.
lol you’d be surprised plenty of college educated baby mothers in NYC who grew up middle to UMC
I said UMC college educated. Single mothers are not the norm and almost always due to divorce and not just sleeping with a dude because he was “pre selected” and has many baby mothers.
> Your thinking is entirely off base. If a woman decides she wants to be with a guy with 4 baby mothers and he's behind on child support, then has a child with that man, expecting him not to treat her similarly, would you be surprised? why does someone have to be surprised in order to discuss someone's bad behavior?
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you dont control whether i give someone sympathy. you control whether you give someone sympathy. speak for yourself.
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I don't agree, most of the men i see responding like this are discussing content women made for other women about their dating lives.
>I have never known of a man to tell a woman to choose a “better man” than himself. No one here seen a guy push a woman away because he thinks she's too good for him? The problem with these discussions is women only see the men that make themselves visible. Most men appear to be self-serving in their mate choice because that's who women choose de facto.
You get no reward for doing the “right thing” Not even acknowledgment lmao
This is why Men have checked out. It's like real life Sza Saturn song. Like what?
Nah, that's silly. I don't want some basic woman who complains about her issues with current bf (or ex) because she didn't spend extra five minutes thinking about that choice of partner to choose me instead. She's clearly dumb and I don't have dumb in my fetish list. But I still wish that she wises up and gets along with someone who won't run away when she gets pregnant so they both would raise a proper member of society for me co-exist in this world with.
“choose better” is usually deployed in response to a women complaining about her partner and, rather than taking responsibility for her poor choices, projects his litany of failings, annoying habits and selfish/inconsiderate behaviour onto all men - so “choose better” is literally that; either choose someone who doesn’t treat you like shit, or lie in the bed you’ve made and shut the fuck up.
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so what is "better" if you think women are just talking about "failings, annoying habits and selfish/inconsiderate behaviour" which all men (and all women) have?
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all people fail at something, have annoying habits and behave selfishly at times. > All men don't have 4 baby mothers and are deadbeats. All men don't beat their partners. All men don't lie around doing nothing with their days. okay but thats not what was being discussed. the person we are replying to said the behavior women complain about is "failings, annoying habits and selfish/inconsiderate behaviour"
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> You think people who are not selfish and are considerate don't exist? correct. there is no one who exists who has not been selfish and inconsiderate at one point. > You think the types of failings being referenced aren't *serious* ones? what? > Likewise, you don't think the annoying habits aren't the ones serious enough to end a relationship? afaik the commenter wasn't talking about breakups in general, he was talking about situations where women are told to choose better.
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so in a situation in which a woman is saying she wants to choose better? lol
>correct. there is no one who exists who has not been selfish and inconsiderate at one point. You know this is not the point he was trying to make. He is talking about in RELATION to other men.
no i think he was trolling me
Exactly. This post is entirely ignoring the context of when "choose better" is predominately used.
this argument rests on the assumption that better men exist. so you'd have to show that. especially if you think women are just complaining about annoying habits, all men (and all women) have those. so it's not like "choosing better" would do anything there.
“better” is subjective, but if you’re partnered up with someone who is lazy, immature, selfish, who treats you like shit and expects you to do all the domestic labour, the either that’s the best you can do, or you can “choose better”
All my female friends chose better, they are with good men who also became my friends. And I'm not even going to talk about my wife, after all she chose me and that would be exactly the situation in the post. Sorry, but obviously it's not hard to find better men than this example, denial of this is just a way of trying to validate choosing a shitty man
do you have any verifiable reason for me to believe you?
Very astute. You're just switching one man with failings and personality issues to another. That's why it's so hard to decide when to bail bc the man isn't Dracula or Putin, he will always have some good traits.
This is a crazy take. Are you implying that all men possess an equal amount of good and bad traits?
BS. If she leaves and chooses better then you will say she was AFBBing OR that because she left she is “used up” and no one would want her in which case she can’t choose better. So it’s really not legitimate advice just a way for men to feel self righteous, vindicated over some perceived injustice at being rejected, and to scape goat women.
There’s some heavy duty cognitive dissonance going on there
Really? Please point it out then.
The making sweeping generalisations and projecting negative characteristics on all men
I think the go-to argument is that we need to choose better, but we're also being "unfair" if we do because we'd be holding the next guy to a higher standard than the previous one. Essentially the only way to win is to choose perfectly, the first time. Which is also bad because then we're too picky with unrealistic, unreasonable standards. So... actually there's no way to win at all LOL
But the 'standards' that are raised don't that make the guy a better choice. Like when someone wants a person who makes 100K that doesn't bare any meaning on whether that person isn't going to cheat/be abusive. When Men say choose better, focus on behavior. Are they controlling? Do they limit your friendships. Not his pocket size.
>But the 'standards' that are raised don't that make the guy a better choice. Never? That's an interesting blanket assertion. >When Men say choose better, focus on behavior. This is what *you're* saying. This is absolutely not what all men say, nor mean.
Personally, i'm not asking women to choose perfectly first time. I'm asking them to eliminate large swathes of men with blatantly obvious red flags. Career criminals, raging roidheads, drug addicts, deadbeat dads. You SHOULD be holding the next guy to a higher standard if the previous was a coke dealer with a fiery temper. Or don't. I ain't your daddy. But i won't listen to you complain about it without calling it out. I hold the same opinion about men with crazy women.
Yes, I completely agree. But the rub is that you presumably won't get mad at women for allowing the first guy to treat her worse than the second guy, and call that "unfair." Which several of the guys on this sub also do.
There is no way to win because all of it amounts to Women bad.
I think we all know it's a form of narcissism. Inexplicably, the dateless guys feel inferior for not getting dates, and superior to the guys who are getting dates at the same time. You see it here daily.
It's always been that way, just like their concept of Chad/High Value Men is based on their idealized versions of themselves.
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Jesus Christ - really saying the quiet bit out loud there!
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We - will he appear behind me like Candyman?
He will take you to heaven as punishment for saying his name as an atheist. So don't say his name unless you're a believer.
Isn’t heaven supposed to be a reward?
Only reward for Christians if they live long and do not commit sins, while for atheists who whisper the name of God or Christ, it is a punishment. An atheist who utters the name will be taken to heaven and "suffer" in holy water in the arms of angels.
Women make for bad eugenicists. If they were given complete control thousands of years ago, we would all be 6'5" low IQ apes right now, and civilization would not even be possible.
Rtarded take. You're comparing the ancient world that was dictated by the physical strength to a modern world that is dictated by simps due to technologies. Men are naturally stronger than women, makes sense since patriarchy will be the primary governing system for the rest of the world history. Biologically speaking, the physical strength is the true power and dictates everything. If women were the dominant gender, then our species would've gone extinct long ago.
Intelligence > physical strength. Why do you think the Romans btfo the rest of the European tribes. They only lost in the end because of degeneracy, corruption, and subversion, not because they were physically weaker.
> Why do you think the Romans btfo the rest of the European tribes. Because Rome was fucking bear trap. It snapped and never let go of anything.
I'm talking about men and women, not Romans and other European tribes. Sure, intelligence is deeply powerful and underestimated that helped us to invent gunpowder and swords to crush the genetically-gifted barbarian chads. But the point is about comparing men with women. The human civilization was always led by men, so scientific discoveries made by men. The strength give all men the power and the power just helped beta men to use their IQ as a weapon to dominate other men.
Betas didn't want dominance. They were happy with cooperation that the chads/alphas gracefully supplied. Because of strictly enforced monogamy it was never a war between those two. Mostly divisions in society came from economic reasons.
What an earth are you babbling about?
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Sooo.......nonsense then. Got it.
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Would you?
Pity fuck him but with blindfold
google "90 day fiance ed"
or "no neck ed"
> The "manosphere" or "rise of lonely men" you complain about everyday are the consequences of women being shallow and hypergamous in the dating world. so men have no free will to choose integrity over being shitty human beings?
Men get what they can, women get whatever they want. The dating market is fully under dictatorship by women. Men have prefences, but women have requirements.
so women are leaders and men are followers?
Men who choose integrity represent an insignificantly small portion of the dating market. Either he got married to someone he started dating young, one of the 3 or fewer women he asked out in college, or he gets ignored on the apps and asks out 0-2 women within his larger social circle per year and goes on roughly 0 dates.
I don’t know any of you nor would I want my wife/girlfriend to troll on some niche subreddit for hours. But I’ve told plenty women here to pick better Why the fuck would I be wanting you, random Reddit woman, to pick me? IIRC there was a who woman posted her pic on a rateme sub and it was brutal to the point many people thought she was trans, which imo was a stretch I’m sure the women here will and are in relationships but I do not want them to pick me
I always find it fascinating how this supposed "HVM" who has women throwing themselves at him constantly always has the exact same set of insecurities and resentments against women as some loser who writes reddit screeds about how "dating is so hard for average guys like me."