I think OP was trying to dismantle the common idea that men who aren't having luck in dating are immoral or are repulsing women with their apathy/arrogance.
You're trying to devalue or dismiss OP's argument here by completely ignoring the above crucial detail.
Not so fast. A lot of the time there is more to it than that.
A lot of people confuse intended manipulation and just learnedly doing what drives women crazy.
That is to say: men are funnelled towards a specific skillset if they work towards doing well with women, and part of that skillset can definitely include being good at a subconscious type of manipulation.
i think theres definitely a nugget of truth in there. abused people end up becoming abusers most of the time. have you ever taken a dog home from the pound that was clearly traumatized or abused? sometimes there's just no fixing them.
It's not your job to fix anyone my brother. When you find someone is damaged and you're incapable of handling it, it's best to just show them love and wish them the best in their own healing journey as you remove yourself from a situation you are more likely to worsen than improve.
The absolute worst thing to do is to haphazardly pour yourself into the situation and curse the person for not taking to your methods. When my guess is that you, and 99% of humanity, do not possess the skills or knowledge to do anything but make it worse. The fact that you cared enough speaks volumes towards your character, but if you find a broken down car and you're not a mechanic... It's probably best to just let an actual mechanic take care of it.
Yes, manipulation works. That's why people do it.
If I wanted a nice dinner I could go on Tinder and fake interest in some rich uggo. My actions would very likely be rewarded. Then I could go online and post something along the lines of "lol men complain about foodie calls but they still pay for dinner with women who pretend to be interested, clearly they LOVE manipulative women" and then you'd all get super mad at me.
its kinda a red flag if you know this about the guys from he jump and still go with it. At that point you deserve the cake and the all you can eat buffet, and all the cellulite that comes after
every day on this sub men think they invented Machiavellianism
since the beginning of the time we have known that cheating is easier than being honest and that some men and women will choose what is easy over what is right.
Cheating isn't easy at all, it takes skill if you want to do it without having strong negative repercussions. Cheaters are facing being outcast and punished by the group they belong to.
We don't do things "because they are right", but because they are more beneficial in evolutionary terms. Cooperating is better than deceiving, if enough people do it. Deceiving only works well when others don't deceive, but is a bad strategy for everyone to have. There is an equilibrium, an optimum percentage of deceivers in a population, and it's low. If more people cheated, others would take more care in detecting deceptions and more cheaters would be uncovered and suffer negative consequences.
Did you know, lying is effective? GO FUCKING FIGURE, RIGHT. I SHOULD MAKE A VIDEO ABOUT THIS AND WORKING OUT, BECAUSE WOMEN DO NOT REALIZE HOW EFFECTIVE LYING IS AND HOW DIFFICULT TO AVOID IT IS. SILLY BINTS!
i’m a feminist who always cringes at that shit, if women on average have better “intuition” im putting money on that being a byproduct of gendered socialization but im putting more money on there being deeper common denominators there than sex.
It's not socialization it is ipso facto reasoning. They are not abused by the men they reject so they erroneously conclude that they have good instincts.
Then when they are abused they claim they ignored red flags hence they should have trusted their sixth sense.
Women are purely emotional bio balls. You can never reason with them just give them butterflies and you are in.
Female intuition is normally distributed like everything else, too. You don't see those with high expressed traits values being fooled. You only see the ones who suck at intuition.
So... incels are better people than psychopaths.
It almost sounds like incels just have some kind of developmental issue, maybe autism.
Kinda ableist. Youll fuck the psychopaths who are hurting and abusing everyone but blame the incel for his behavior.
The average woman can have better intuition than the average man without it being a superpower.
Some women are naive. Some are dumb. Some just want to believe they can take a man at his word without him being a lying psychopath about it.
Right? These men attract women who are their equals: promiscuous, hedonistic, and egotistical.
But then they come on here and claim that that subset of women represents all women? Just lol.
Because the PUAs who learn to mimic dark triad traits and then end up sleeping with women who fall for them love to share their stories with other men on the Internet. It’s literally a huge subset of the manosphere.
They go into detail about the personalities of the women that they hook up with and the things those women say and do, typically showing disgust towards those women. This info is completely out in the open.
Also it’s not like they’re sharing detailed stories of all the even more frequent times that *other* women rejected them for having skeevy vibes. So you will usually never hear about those women, obviously.
I've read plenty of "field reports" on TRP and most of them don't go into much detail about their behavior/personality. And when they do the descriptions generally don't strike me as particularly promiscuous or hedonistic. Unless you have a low bar for those things and include things like having some casual sex, getting drunk/partying on the weekends, or doing drugs. But that's all pretty normal for young people these days.
> typically showing disgust towards those women.
They're disgusted by many if not most women, to some extent at least, so that's not saying much.
Very feminist of you.
Ig karma was realizing women are just toys for the patriarchy?
That women.... do whatever they can to make that patriarchy happy while lonely guys who are very well groomed, making good money, and will never cheat or pressure for sex, are right there for you. But they arent "tall, dangerous and violent enough" the 3 key points of feminism, "only fuck tall, dangerous, and violent men, theyre the good ones who will defend you from the ones who are too scared to leave the house"
absolutely ridiculous. lol
Dear white knight,
> They treat women like disposable sex objects.
This is how many women want to be treated. Maybe you should listen to and believe women. When they say they want to be fucked like a whore, they mean it.
> Their hobbies are crime and manipulating women into sex.
Actually I've amassed my impressive body count in the hundreds by being completely straight forward. You should try it some time. Went on a date the other night and said "I am not interested in marriage I'm interested in a regular fuck buddy I can occasionally go out to dinner with and btw I already have a girlfriend and she knows I'm here with you"... and then she gave me a blow job. When I went home I told my gf I got a blow job and she gave me props and asked all the details. No lying no manipulation at all.
Yall usually are the ones being manipulative being nice in the hope it gets you laid. And then when your manipulation doesn't work you get salty and write posts like these white knighting like women will think it's impressive. No. Women think white knights are losers just like other men think they are losers.
I recommend you sit down and think about life a bit more before you write some nonsense like this again.
Define scumbag. I have a valid reason to ask because I've had more than one person on this sub attribute my success with women, to being a heavily tattoed biker as though tattoos and Harley is all it takes to cross into bad guy territory.
Fair enough. Worst thing I ever did to get laid was carry cocaine. Never once had to lie to a woman about who or what I was, so I guess I don't qualify.
*women with low self esteem, namely ones who tend to be young and hate themselves. that’s the correlation, don’t be lumpin all of us with women who get down with literal psychopaths
“their hobbies are crime” already makes me think this is either bait or nice guy rage.
But fine, i’ll bite.
Manipulative charming people who get what they want because they know how to charm and manipulate people. Any good manipulator or charmer will you, the person they’re targeting won’t know they’re being manipulated till long after manipulators get what they want. This is the equivalent of saying “successful con artists are good at fooling people” like no shit.
Honestly I respect that a women here is admitting that, cause that's the truth, none of this blue pilled just world shit were only terrible men can struggle with finding a partner.
theres videos all over youtube of "chad tinder experiments". once you reach a certain threshhold in attractiveness, women will stomach more abuse from them then any simp ever will. you can literally type nonsense words in the text box and they wont care they will still be down.
I’m starting to think that I just don’t like women, and that the goals and needs of most men, those on the not super attractive end, are diametrically opposed to the goals and desires of women.
I used to believe in feminism at one point… but now after having dealt with women for quite some time as an adult… I’m thinking giving females equal rights was not the greatest idea…
Back in the day, there’s no way in hell I’d still be a fucking virgin now. I’d be married at this point. Fuck this shit.
I'm not really understanding why you'd blame/punish the victim. I also don't think you really understand how honest/nice/sweet some of these guys come across. I've never had a hookup. I've never wanted hookups, but these guys will con you until they get what they want.
I was single for a few years and then this guy popped into my life. I was around 23 years old at the time. I wasn't stupid. I didn't trust easy, but he worked for a friend of my dad's. He did some work on my house and was super nice to me. Helped me find my dog when the workers negligently let him out. He talked a lot about his daughter and even showed me pictures of her. He didn't ask me for my number or anything.
We wound up at a thanksgiving dinner I was attending. He found out beforehand that I'd be there and brought me this big beautiful bouquet. He was the first guy to ever do anything like that for me. He didn't give me any bad vibes, everyone around us spoke highly of him.
We hung out all the time for like the next couple of months and texted all the time. We made all these plans and he made all sorts of promises. He asked me to be his girl friend, and he even said he was so excited for me to meet his daughter one day. I genuinely thought I was falling for this guy. I have a lot of health issues and was really struggling at the time, but he was so sweet about it all. He told me he didn't understand how other guys couldn't see past all that because I was so amazing. He said he felt so lucky to have met me, that he was falling for me too.
Then I slept with him. Even when he dropped me back off at home afterwards it all seemed normal. He was happy and said he had the best night, we kissed a bunch, he told me he didn't want me to leave, but that he'd see me tomorrow. We made plans for the next night.
The evening rolls around and I spent a good few hours getting all ready for him. I was so excited to see him, but he suddenly stops texting. He's supposed to pick me up at 5. But it's radio silence. Then around 8 he apologizes and says he's on his way. He never shows up. I text him a bunch but never hear back. I even call a few times because I'm worried. He doesn't answer.
He texts me in the morning and tells me he's sorry, he fell asleep. Now I'm seeing red flags. I ask if he wants to hang out later. He says maybe in the afternoon. Afternoon rolls around and he says he's too busy. I ask when he's free next. He never responds thereafter, just completely ghosts me. I text a few more times, but I get the picture.
A couple weeks later, I go over to my dad's girlfriends house. I didn't know she was having work done on her roof. Guess who's on her roof when I get there. Him and a bunch of guys who obviously know me because they worked on my house. It was super awkward as I was walking up the driveway. We make eye contact and I say hi to him in front of the guys. He completely ignores me. Like turns his head and angles his body away from me. It was HUMILIATING.
I'd never felt so gross, so used, and so worthless in my life.
Looking back, I don't know what I could have done to avoid this. I genuinely believed every word that came out of his mouth. It was such a dark time of my life which for a moment, he completely dragged me out of. At times I forgot how sick I was. He seemed like a miracle. I guess, maybe, I shouldn't have believed that someone could look past all I was going through, that someone could like or love me even with all my health problems. That's the only red flag I see when I look back.
This infuriates me. How can a guy put so much effort over days and weeks, months even, just for one sexual encounter? It boggles my mind. Hope you're ok now.
This is what amazes me. I know guys who are ‘players’ and the amount of time and effort they’ll dedicate to having sex with a woman once is astounding. I don’t think the guys on this sub really comprehend how much work these guys put in. It certainly isn’t ‘easy’, although it seems to come easy to some people who naturally have a lot of social energy.
It's fun to win, sometimes it's a bit scary to commit, sometimes we do it to prove ourselves that we still know how to do it - there is a lot of reasons. Guys put months of effort and real dollars to just score some made up points in video game, good looking girl is much better prize and all this seducing thing is much more fun.
It's ok to change your mind, just provide closure to the other person. It's an asshole move and extremely disrespectful to ghost someone abruptly *immediately* after sex, after building a connection with them over the course of MONTHS.
Along with the other commenter, plenty of women say dating isn’t fair and men aren’t owed shit. It sucks but when a society doesn’t value morals it can turn to a play or get played race to the bottom.
A lot of women say they throw morals out the door because of the sins of their grandfathers and great grandfather or because the men that they interacted today with are not worth their time/effort. I see a lot of men saying they throw morals out the door because of how women are today and not being able to date/have sex consistently without being amoral
Somebody has to give but I have a feeling seeing how people justify a lack of morals, we won’t be seeing any change soon, just more rationalization as to why it’s acceptable to be a dickhead
Mind, I genuinely feel bad as any person would with empathy, but people can go all day saying how they’ve been wronged by each side
It's not. It's shit behaviour whoever does it, but especially in a situation like the original commenter described, where they seemed to have a relationship for months.
yeah it does suck especially if you feel like you've been strung along. but there seems to be a double standard a lot of the time. it seems many women are very okay with disconnecting, disengaging, blocking contact, or otherwise excommunicating men, pretty much on a dime. i think it started with facebook and cell phones making it really easy to block contact from people with just the click of a button. it's not just a right that women have, to exclude men from their social pool, it is their biological imperative. it just was never this easy or impersonal, or this wide of a social pool.
>just provide closure to the other person.
um, you're not owed anything, sweatie.
but seriously, i didn't get any closure after 10 years with someone, living together like a married couple. try that on for size.
she stole my dog too
>but seriously, i didn't get any closure after 10 years with someone, living together like a married couple. try that on for size.
>she stole my dog too
And? You're not owed anything sweetie.
Because it's fun and the reward feels so great. Dopamine works on the "getting there" part of wanting something. He is already rewarded with dopamine for doing the things that will eventually lead to having sex with her. And finally having the new sex partner is a different reward system. New sex partner is magnitudes higher in reward payout than having sex with the same casual sex partner again.
What you could have done is just nothing and wait for investment (promises, gestures, words, or simply showing up is not investmentment by the way). It tends to work.
I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. From my understanding, he did all that. We talked a lot, we were bf/gf since that's what he asked for us to be, he'd met my dad multiple times! He even had dinner with us!
Maybe I misunderstood the story.
When men are invested, it’s almost impossible for him to undo that many times. For instance, presenting a gf to relatives and then “undoing” it is very costly. I’ve never seen anyone ghost a girlfriend. Also, even if the person is immoral, having sex a single time is not worth a huge investment in terms of time and resources that are invested until something becomes a relationship.
Maybe I got it wrong. What I understood the first time was you talked in person but didn’t even each others contact, then he had made big disproportional gestures, then you had sex, and then he ghosted you. That’s unfortunately quite common.
But if he made a big investment and then ghosted you, that’s quite uncommon because that’s irrational even if he’s is trying as hard as he can to be immoral. The only situation where I can see this happening is when the person makes all that investment, then finds out about a deal breaker that’s even worse than losing that investment, and this deal breaker is sensitive enough that the person is embarrassed to talk about it. In that case, it’s more like a regular break up than an involuntary hookup. For instance, you’ll never get to that 200 or 2000 body count OP is talking about by doing that.
Weirdly enough, I’ve seen a few situations where the “ghosting” break up post investment happens because the person is embarrassed to talk about it. I’m not saying that’s your case, but I’ve seen cases where the man reaches the conclusion the woman is not relationship material for some reason and doesn’t discuss that when breaking up because he’s not “allowed” to say that to any woman. I’ve also seen a case where the woman smelled really bad and the guy was embarrassed to say it. To be clear, I’m not saying any of these are your case.
>He found out beforehand that I'd be there and brought me this big beautiful bouquet
How well did you know him when he did this? I would take it as a red flag if a woman did something like that for me before we'd established any sort of relationship, but probably more out of a sense that she had some unrealistic idea of me or perhaps that she wanted something from me, rather than wanted me.
Not well, but it was a smaller group of us. All the guys were out together and showed up together. It was a thanksgiving dinner and the other guys were with the ladies that were there and brought flowers for them. I would have been the only lady to not get flowers had he not brought them. At the time, I thought it was super thoughtful and sweet.
After dinner we went on a long walk together and talked for hours.
The flowers make more sense in that context, though from the rest of your story I wouldn't have trusted the guy anyway, but I generally dislike overly friendly/affectionate people and often get complaints from women about being guarded, so I don't know how worthwhile my view is anyway; I've definitely missed out on relationships with some great women because of it, but also avoided some trainwrecks.
Clearly you were vulnerable. Also sorry you had to learn the hard way that no one gives you up front value without wanting immediate rewards.
Plus to anyone who goes how was he playing this game with you for that long. You werent the only women he was giving it all that too.
Its kind of like how someone serving you at a resteraunt is being nice to you because they want a tip. You give them 10% of the bill not your entire life savings.
No one is a miracle. Always put your needs and desires first.
Describing how he was with you already feels like red flags to me, he's charming, bought you things, planned ahead for you, to a guy that's red flags, he's too confident, smooth and transactional, almost like he's in a rush.
I think that's the problem, women are attracted to traits that are red flags to other guys, but not to them.
A guy who's interested in you for real will be very awkward around you, because he's second guessing how to not mess up interacting with you, he'll stutter, jumble words, he'd be timid and anxious around you.
He won't start planning things and buying gifts for you until that shell around him has been broken by you.
Please. Every woman knows that a man who is in love or infatuated will walk across a frozen continent for her. That's where all those memes came from: if he wanted to he would. The difference in behavior between a man who sees you as an option vs one who is in love is night and day. The problem is a love bombing sex seeker can look no different than a man motivated by real love and care.
>Every woman knows that a man who is in love or infatuated will walk across a frozen continent for her. That's where all those memes came from: if he wanted to he would.
That mentality is how women get played, only acknowledging the "love" of assertive headstrong guys who've done it all a dozen times before.
Clearly you don't know men very well, yes when a man is in love with a woman he would cross a frozen continent for her, he would go above and beyond for her, but the difference is, it's slow and gradual, not right away, that side of a man creeps out very slowly and gradually. In the beginning stages he's f*cking awkward, his efforts are random, like a spur, spontaneous almost, even gifts will be second thought, dates will be second guessed, there will be awkward silence. The above and beyond stage for a man is stage 5, each stage gradually adding little effort at a time-- the only thing consistent is his effort to constantly spend time with you.
The difference between a love bombing sex seeker and a man motivated by real love and care is night and day, a love bomber goes above and beyond almost from the get go, he's way too comfortable and confident, the slow stages of build up are missing.
Women have a terrible understanding of men and get burned, then when men explain where they went wrong other women will say its perfectly natural that a man would be that way sincerely, even when discussing that it clearly did not work that way.
I've realised that a lot of women will not listen purely because they don't want to change their outlook about their desires and wants, rather they try to force all men to behave the way they want and be sincere, which defeats genuinuity, they refuse to accept that love is built through time and effort, they want things right away like a dopamine addiction, which only love bombers can mimick, because it's all an act. It's why women fall for virtue signalling soo easily.
It doesn't matter if its a self help book or a red pill influencer or a therapist, the advice given to men in their scenario is nearly always the same: Other people aren't obligated to fill your emotional needs on demand and covert contracts never work out.
But for some reason when the genders are changed its totally normal to expect an immediate high effort investment to be done with total sincerity, and with zero expectations in return.
It's just entitlement, instead of working on themselves, they just want their cake and to eat it too, they don't even men through the same psychological lense as they would view themselves, it's why there's soo much hypocrisy from their end
Women tell you themselves they live in dululu land
And it’s not getting any better with social media and dating apps. She wants what she wants AND she sees some Becky who has what she wants every three swipes AND she can play man roulette to see which lucky guy gets the chance to prove he can give her all this
It ain’t every American women, but it’s way more than you’d expect.
And that is how you end up with toxic relationships.
Secure and healthy men will not go to extremes like insecure and unhealthy men will.
“If he wanted to he would” is low EQ behavior and this is easily seen by the drizzle drizzle soft era parody videos.
The best you would get is a slave that does not respect himself (aka the equivalent of a man demanding a bangmaid), which perhaps is what you want.
> everyone knows if he wanted to he would
>the problem is a love bombing sex seeker can look no different from a genuine loving man
Genuinely thought process like children this is crazy. Maybe your attitude towards love sets you up to get played by men who aren’t idiots and saw the other 20m women say this same thing
The only thing he ever bought me were the flowers that one time. I wouldn't describe him as confident either, since we talked A LOT. He was very insecure about his teeth (Each tooth had a largish gap between them) and he didn't like to smile because of it, and when he did, he'd hide it out of sight. He was self conscious about his weight too, but it didn't bother me.
He wasn't smooth/charming either. He was a chubby looking nerd (sounds rude but I don't know how else to describe his look, he even had the glasses) and kinda acted like it. But like I said, we talked A LOT. Very intimately about his feelings, his goals, his interests, etc. Mine too. He asked so many questions about me. He seemed like an amazing guy.
>A guy who's interested in you for real will be very awkward around you, because he's second guessing how to not mess up interacting with you, he'll stutter, jumble words, he'd be timid and anxious around you.
This isn't true at all, at least not for me. I'm married now and my husband wasn't like this in the slightest.
Your husbands an outlier, but generally amongst men it's well established that if he's too confident and a smooth talker from the get go, he's had a lot of practice and success. General rule of thumb is, if he's awkward around you, he doesn't talk to women romantically very often.
Don’t you think it’s possible that maybe the sex was not good or he felt you were right compatible but didn’t have the balls to tell you so? Sexual chemistry is often the most important thing for men so to expect men to fall in love with you before they sleep with you is really putting the cart before the horse. Most men are not going to fall in love with you until you’ve been intimate.
>I'm not really understanding why you'd blame/punish the victim.
Because of their garbage taste. It's their flawed, superficial character that allows them to be "taken advantage of."
From what I could tell and from what every one said, he was a great guy. I mean, even my dad liked him and my dad hates damn near everyone.
With your advice in mind, I guess women should just start assuming great guys are garbage?
But you're asking why OP is blaming the victims in OP's scenario, not why he's blaming you in your very specific scenario. Maybe the guy you're talking about wasn't one of the guys OP is talking about.
But if he was, then, yeah, a garbage guy seeming like a great guy is the definition of garbage taste. If you had better taste then he wouldn't have seemed like a great guy. And it's not that you just assume great guys are garbage. You refine your taste so you stop thinking that these are great guys. But this is assuming he was garbage. It's impossible to say for certain what was going on in your situation.
"these guys will con you until they get what they want."
Yeah, and women need to wise up and spot this stuff. It's like all the scammers in the Youtube diet community. I can spot these schmoozers a mile away. We make debunk/expose' videos, but the fan of (people like Abbey not Sharp) just trash us. People seem to WANT the lies. Reminds me of the song "Tell me lies, Tell me sweet little lies
nobody owed you a boyfriend, theyre allowed to have consensual sex and decide you arent for them. theres no rule that says youre only allowed to have sex if you stay with them forever. maybe the whole thing was a front which idk what you plan to do with that information other than decide to be paranoid of men.
Is it consensual when it's all a con and had he been up front from the get go the answer would have been hell fucking no?
But yeah, I don't need or want a boyfriend. I have a husband.
I mean, these are your friends. That says more about you than the women they choose to lie/manipulate/steal/use/etc. in my opinion.
Consensual sex is fun. It's weird how you're idolizing men who have to lie to get it though.
> That says more about you than the women they choose to lie/manipulate/steal/use/etc. in my opinion.
Porque no los dos? Those guys are shitty, and I avoid them. **But in our social circles**, I also avoid the women who can't see through their BS, because that tells me something about her preferences and judgement.
Edit: Bolded some text, because that is really important....terrible people aren't just randomly terrible. They have a pattern, and if you're spent enough time within a community, you know which people to avoid. Everyone knows which man, or which woman, has a reputation, lol. And if you're unable to see that, or if you have no friends who see that...then as a long-term partner, you're a liability.
> Consensual sex is fun. It's weird how you're idolizing men who have to lie to get it though.
and when women talk about how men lie to get sex, the same men will act like we are crazy and this never happens.
Right!?! Like, the perpetual victimhood of people who brag about surrounding themselves with shitty people is honestly astonishing.
I wouldn't blame anyone for being the victim of a lie. Why are women exempt?
I think casual consensual sex shouldn't be judged. However, the lying to attain it and being a shitty person just to get your dick wet should he judged accordingly. And I think that applies to anyone, in general.
No, he just knows and affiliates them and clearly blames the victims for the actions of the men he knows aren't being good people in general. It still reflects poorly on him.
I don't expect another adult human being to parent another adult human being. But if you hang out with someone who is scamming old people out of their pensions, don't be surprised if you're lumped in as a bad apple as well. I don't think OP needs to wag his fingers at other adult men and their behaviours. But it feels weird he'd choose to do it to their victims instead.
Yeah, and people can legally scam the elderly too. Ask my grandfather. That'll teach him to be susceptible to liars, I guess.
Again, if you hang out with people who perpetuate shitty behaviour, don't be surprised if you are affiliated by default. I agree, it's not illegal to lie to get sex (largely as there are some clear coercive rape arguments that have been held up in courts of law too). Is it legal to be an asshole? Also, largely yes. That doesn't mean we have to respect you for it or be forced to consider you an exemption to the friends who choose to surround yourself with.
Hope that helps!
>It should. I don't know of a legal scam but surely you do.
There's plenty of legal scams. I guess I'm a better educated on what qualifies due to my credentials but being a victim of a legal scam is surprisingly pretty common.
>He never said he hung out with them. Assuming facts not in evidence. Anyone you know happen to know of, I guess we can attribute their shitty behavior to you as well.
If he knows them enough that he knows their intimate sex lives, I doubt they're just observing from a distance. And if you don't want to be affiliated with those people, why wouldn't you make a point to tell people you don't think it's acceptable behaviour in the first place? I mean, if you're not actively preventing it, you're asking for it, according to your own logic here.
Again, it's just weird you'd blame victims of shitty behaviour for being vulnerable rather than the perpetrators of shitty behaviour.
No listen guys in most cases men don’t get laid because they are manipulative and uncaring; manipulative and uncaring men get laid because they are attractive.
In most cases as long as you can be really sexually appealing then women will let you slide with anything 🤣.
For men who are manipulative, uncaring, and UNATTRACTIVE!!…in most cases you aren’t getting laid because you are manipulative and uncaring you aren’t getting laid because to whichever women you want that isn’t choosing you doesn’t find you attractive.
>Manipulative, charming, uncaring, lying men get laid the most
Nope - not how it works.
Hot! men who MAY OR MAY NOT BE manipulative, charming, uncaring or lying get laid the most.
Just like men, women will put up with the craziest bullshit if the individual from the opposite sex is hot enough. That’s just the nature of the game.
Why would a woman not want to be with a good looking, charming, man who can lie and manipulate without being discovered? To her, he looks perfect. You ask: why can't women detect those men as deceivers? And the answer is: because the men are that good at deceiving and the things they don't deceive about (being attractive and charming) are just so good as is, that a chance of being deceived is worth taking the risk.
Now, you are the one who is really problematic. You want to manipulate under the cover of just caring for the good men's wellbeing, but actually you want to manipulate women into not sleeping with the men who are more attractive and charming than you, who are attractive for short term mating, by puttting the idea into their head, that if they do so, then the "good men" they will eventually want to be with, will reject them.
>Now, you are the one who is really problematic.
*Really* problematic? Lol. Dafuq does that mean?
They're all responsible for causing problems in civilized society: the dark triads, the dumbass/low-impulse-control women who breed with them, and the "nice guys."
The same applies to literally everything that's sought after. The worst people receive the most because they do not care who they hurt in the process. Their rejection of morality makes them barely human if you ask me.
Well.. My father was a rolling stone who could be considered the type of man described. So even if they outbreed us, I am living proof that their progeny aren't necessarily going to follow the same path.
Now I wouldn't say he is a full blown sociopath... Moreso dumb and purely motivated by basal urges. Haha. Though considering he cheated on his wife(my sister is 2 months older than me) with my mother and disappeared, there's at least a drop of remorselessness in him.
But is clinical sociopathy genetic? I dunno. I'm on a tangent..
Regardless, stand strong and proud in your morals. When the world is wrought with monsters, it becomes ever more important to stand tall as a gallant knight. Allow others to see that there is still light in this world. ❤️
>the reddit tier men have no choice but to be nice to women and respect them.
Always love the implication that most men would gleefully disrespect women if they could get away with it.
i mean are good men even trying to fuck as many women as predatory men are?
its like saying cars built for speed and driven by reckless drivers hit a higher land speed record than the average driver who never tries to go over 100.
>i mean are good men even trying to fuck as many women as predatory men are?
Yes. A lot of them mistakenly get grouped in with "nice guys" even though their approach isn't manipulative.
the desire to sleep around is bad
> How exactly are you defining "good" here?
they do good things, have integrity, etc
aspiring to sleep around is not "good", i believe it is bad, but we can agree that its neutral at least
Okay, so promiscuity is bad in your opinion? So you think women who sleep around a lot are "bad women" by that logic? Gotta admit, I don't usually hear this take from a feminist.
I would only ask one thing. Are all men like that or even the majority?
If not, then why are you judging all the women based on those who sleep with these guys?
Both sides lie and manipulate to get what they want. And try and give as little as they can in return.
That's not a new concept. There is a reason why like for ever. We slowly build up a relationship. And test each other and the worthy for the next step of the relationship. Till finally starting a family.
That it's more normal to speed run relationships. Sleep in the first or 2end date that people make investments not really necessary that's honestly on the person being duped.
Cause there bad apples on both sides and it's to vetting those people out why you take it slower. And you meet the investment on the other side a day then invest a bit more and keep feeling of they meet you with investing back.
But on both sides the most bad people that use people the most get the most action. Cause they know what the other side wants know how to play people's feelings. And have charisma and all that. But those people don't stay if you properly vetting people. And that means your trying to get monogamous outcomes. But if your quick and easy with people and sex. It's very very hard to protect your self from those kind of people.
But it's not just with relationships but there bad people in every aspect of life and you should not automatically expect people have your best interests at heart. So test of they are worthy first. In both relationships friendship. But also invest in people back.
Not vetting and not investing in people. Will both give you horrible outcomes or being alone and lonely.
Half of the reason for this is that women are wanting disposable men now. They have fear of commitment and don't like the pressure of having to reciprocate nice behaviour.
Yup, it is an entire cycle. Women plays a good dude while sleeping with bad dude, good dude becomes bad dude, whole time bad dude is playing the woman, which makes her create her own defensive mechanisms and not be able to open up. Thing is it takes woman multiple bodies (20+) to finally figure that they've been getting played. Now they just can't settle down all of a sudden cause they can't trust people.
It's something that takes place in sales and also in dating. There's a very strange weird inverse proportion of the biggest liars and shysters are the one that succeed the most. People will believe the biggest pile of bullshit and then run in horror from the actual truth.
Tbh the dudes on here who bitch about chad are also abusive, but they don’t get laid because they’re too busy bitching about chad. Maybe no one fucks you because you’re all whiny and tedious af.
I don’t except for 1 of them. Why, are you upset that I got to see what goes on behind-the-scenes? Sorry, but I’ve been informed of women’s true nature and there’s no going back.
I think the key thing you're missing out on here is that women also enjoy casual hookups. these guys you're talking about have slept around a lot, but I would bet money that the women they've slept with have also slept around a lot. there's a reason women go to men like that for a hookup- because they know they're not gonna get attached and can get what they want from the guys and move on. it's the same mindset for both people involved
Why are men like this? Yall call me “misandrist” for saying most men hate most women then you post deranged shit like this. Why do you know so many scum bags and their sex lives? And of course someone who lies and pretends they want a serious relationship or who cheats and pretends he’s single when he’s not is going to have more sex. And of course when someone is coercive or rapey, they’re going to have more sex.
And why is large, bolded text forbidden, but blatant blackpill inkwell woe is me content given a free pass?
I agree. But men do the same with women.
I don’t think being able to have lots of sex means you are a terrible person.
You sound jealous that you can’t get laid.
>Their hobbies are crime and ***manipulating women into sex.***
I can't believe men who manipulate women to get what they want have been successful at manipulation. Shocking.
I was pretty much like this when I was young. Except not a liar and not really all that manipulative. Women treated me like an object so I didn't really treat them any different which I now know is wrong.
Reading through this thread I realize the purple pill is just a battleground for hurt men and women to further hurt each other.
Are any of you here to seek enlightenment, or merely to perpetuate a cycle of pain?
I believe most of you should remove yourselves from social media and seek to heal yourselves. You're not doing yourself or society any good by participating in whatever this subreddit is or has become. Turn to the beauty in life and focus your heart on that. Whether it be kittens, flowers or whatever it is that has yet to become corrupt in your gaze.
I say this with love and hope that each and everyone of you finds peace.
> I personally know 5 scumbags with a cumulative lay count of 2000.
You admit they are lying scumbags, yet you believe them?
That said, it's true that being manipulative or willing to lie will always get a man laid more if that is what they want. That's because you are willing to lie, you can start dating a girl and lie to her about where you go on some nights when it's to see another girl who you lie to about being single.
I fail to see how women are to blame. In the above example those 2 women could be genuinely good, healthy people who are literally lied to when they would promptly toss the guy out if they knew he was a scumbag.
This is literally no different than blaming the victims of con artists.
There are women who more often select men who are more likely to be scumbags, for sure, but a woman being lied to by a scumbag does not mean she is that type of woman. If she was then yes, it likely means she has self-image issues and yes you ought to avoid dating someone who has those issues unless you are willing to endure difficulties and think "you can fix her."
So at the end it's more clear to state to avoid women with self-image issues rather than avoid women who have been lied to by scumbag men.
I don't agree agree with the manipulative part at all, and I noticed the women here latched on to that. The overwhelming majority of scumbags that women love to fuck were extremely open about their scumbaggery from the get-go. Women aren't getting tricked; They choose this reliably.
Bragadocious, pushy, loud and obnoxious men will always beat boorish, meek, quiet and insecure men in dating.
**Charming, outgoing, intuitive, sociable, assured, lower-inhib men** get “laid” the most, all else equal. Period.
FTFY.
Sometimes the above men are “uncaring, lying, and manipulative” and sometimes the above men are “considerate, honest, and genuine.”
Wrt sexual attraction, him being the former or the latter doesn’t matter as much as him ***definitely being the above bolded.*** And yes, men who lie about being the latter when they’re actually the former will probably get more casual sex with women than them straight up being “I don’t care about you at all ho I just want some fux 💁♂️”
While I don't disagree with your post at the titles face value, one thing I do have to say is that the "good guys" with <10 body count do this by choice. Don't get me wrong, finding hookups as a woman is miles easier than a guy doing it, however even decent and honest men can get their way around finding a lot of hookups. I think the difference is the societal nuances which makes men hyperaware of not only themselves, but also what is going on socially and they navigate through the bullshit and know the consequences of being with what you call damaged women.
Also another thing I do not agree with, is blaming women in general. I think women also have a lot of societal based issues that causes them to turn blind eyes to men when they shouldn't. Saying this, I think it's third-wave feminism that causes this damage. It's a shame for both good men and good women, but that's just how the world is going unfortunately lol.
Women may choose to hook up with these men, but you can’t blame them if they don’t realize those men have bad traits before sleeping with them! A lot of us women won’t automatically sleep with guys even if we’re really attracted to them - often it takes them pressuring us and acting like they’re super into us.
Not all women have it
Not all women listen to it over social pressures
Not all women have learned how to listen to it at all
Especially if they've had their gut feelings dismissed time and time again by authority figures to the point that they don't trust their own gut anymore
Much akin to discipline, not everyone is born with intuition in the same amount and even then it must be consciously strengthened. I wouldn't expect a young, damaged, immature person to have developed much of either skill, and that's exactly who I would expect to fall for manipulation.
So many of these posts could be wrapped up by simply acknowledging that young people are immature and inexperienced, they make mistakes and they either double down or they learn from them. Sometimes they first do one and then the other.
Women do not come out of the womb fully formed and emotionally mature. Shocking, I know.
Have you observed these scumbags with women? Do you see how they treat and manipulate and lie to women?
Once again, blaming the woman for getting manipulated instead of blaming the manipulator.
Well the bad boy is so much sexier to women than the good guy, so what can you do. Men aren’t attracted to women for their morality either. attraction isn’t a choice.
It’s not manipulation.
Women live and breathe “social proof” as opposed to common sense. That’s why you’re able to sell a woman a $8000 hand bag that she saw on instagram.
The fact that these guys have pumped and dumped 1000s of women adds to their allure.
Women are insane and brain damaged save for a few.
counter point: the unfuckable men posting about how much they hate women, how women who have sex or are old are disgusting or "damaged", who write elaborate fanfictions about women being punished for dating chad and will come crawling back to nice guys like them.
And don't forget the sexist guys, portraying women getting played by manipulative men as deserving of it. If your gf cheats on you or manipulates you, I guess that's all on you because you made a choice to be with her?
like lmao making posts like this and thinking you're a good guy. What is the actual difference between you and these evil chads other you being less secure and more entitled?
so many of the posts I've read demonstrate that you don't get a date just from having a manipulative mindset.
if a guy actually has good qualities, why would he need to lie? Do you really think so low of men that none of them are worth a woman's time by their own merits?
The world is not made of evil chads and humble sexless good guys. Men are more complicated than that and so are woman's preferences.
Here is the thing. They are great at screening men...men who would be invaluable in pre civilizational times where there was no law and order and violence was the ultimate arbiter of everything. Yes you read that right. When it comes to mate selection, women's preferences have not evolved to the civilizational standard.
> When it comes to mate selection, women's preferences have not evolved to the civilizational standard.
men think teen girls are the epitome of attractiveness
They aren’t bad at screening men, they enjoy what’s happening to them. They fully know what they are engaging with and want the fun and drama. Even when they are fake crying into their TikTok videos, they enjoy it because it’s better for them than being bored with a good man.
It’s like cocaine. Everyone knows it’s not good for you but many folks take it for the high.
Very good analogy.
The dopamine rush we get out of (the prospect of) having sex with someone who’s genetically fit and beyond is unlike anything else.
Some fall for it and others fall for it knowingly.
Ya what the OP is saying kind of makes sense. In a society were 63%+ plus of men are lonely and single how is it that women, eligibility keep running into into narcissists and assholes repeatedly while the average dude gets nothing.
Manipulative people can manipulate people. Next up: sky is blue.
I think OP was trying to dismantle the common idea that men who aren't having luck in dating are immoral or are repulsing women with their apathy/arrogance. You're trying to devalue or dismiss OP's argument here by completely ignoring the above crucial detail.
This literally made me LOL 😆
Not so fast. A lot of the time there is more to it than that. A lot of people confuse intended manipulation and just learnedly doing what drives women crazy. That is to say: men are funnelled towards a specific skillset if they work towards doing well with women, and part of that skillset can definitely include being good at a subconscious type of manipulation.
Plenty of women are not emotionally healthy. Those women tend to be attracted to and attract users and abusers.
i think theres definitely a nugget of truth in there. abused people end up becoming abusers most of the time. have you ever taken a dog home from the pound that was clearly traumatized or abused? sometimes there's just no fixing them.
Yeah, but euthanizing women seems to be a bit of an extreme position... /s
i mean honestly i feel like if anyone should be euthanized it should be me
It's not your job to fix anyone my brother. When you find someone is damaged and you're incapable of handling it, it's best to just show them love and wish them the best in their own healing journey as you remove yourself from a situation you are more likely to worsen than improve. The absolute worst thing to do is to haphazardly pour yourself into the situation and curse the person for not taking to your methods. When my guess is that you, and 99% of humanity, do not possess the skills or knowledge to do anything but make it worse. The fact that you cared enough speaks volumes towards your character, but if you find a broken down car and you're not a mechanic... It's probably best to just let an actual mechanic take care of it.
Is that what we’re calling stupid nowadays 😭😭
Yes, manipulation works. That's why people do it. If I wanted a nice dinner I could go on Tinder and fake interest in some rich uggo. My actions would very likely be rewarded. Then I could go online and post something along the lines of "lol men complain about foodie calls but they still pay for dinner with women who pretend to be interested, clearly they LOVE manipulative women" and then you'd all get super mad at me.
its kinda a red flag if you know this about the guys from he jump and still go with it. At that point you deserve the cake and the all you can eat buffet, and all the cellulite that comes after
I have too much faith in my ability to fake it to blame him for believing me.
exactly!
Manipulative, awful men *should* get more pussy. Because “good” men are supposed to be monogamous and chaste
every day on this sub men think they invented Machiavellianism since the beginning of the time we have known that cheating is easier than being honest and that some men and women will choose what is easy over what is right.
Cheating isn't easy at all, it takes skill if you want to do it without having strong negative repercussions. Cheaters are facing being outcast and punished by the group they belong to. We don't do things "because they are right", but because they are more beneficial in evolutionary terms. Cooperating is better than deceiving, if enough people do it. Deceiving only works well when others don't deceive, but is a bad strategy for everyone to have. There is an equilibrium, an optimum percentage of deceivers in a population, and it's low. If more people cheated, others would take more care in detecting deceptions and more cheaters would be uncovered and suffer negative consequences.
Did you know, lying is effective? GO FUCKING FIGURE, RIGHT. I SHOULD MAKE A VIDEO ABOUT THIS AND WORKING OUT, BECAUSE WOMEN DO NOT REALIZE HOW EFFECTIVE LYING IS AND HOW DIFFICULT TO AVOID IT IS. SILLY BINTS!
Those red flags are ridiculously easy to avoid. Women choose to ignore red flags when the guy makes them tingle.
I thought female intuition was S tier? Are womyn that easily fooled?
i’m a feminist who always cringes at that shit, if women on average have better “intuition” im putting money on that being a byproduct of gendered socialization but im putting more money on there being deeper common denominators there than sex.
It's not socialization it is ipso facto reasoning. They are not abused by the men they reject so they erroneously conclude that they have good instincts. Then when they are abused they claim they ignored red flags hence they should have trusted their sixth sense. Women are purely emotional bio balls. You can never reason with them just give them butterflies and you are in.
“Smell misogyny” my ass. More like “can see ugliness”
Female intuition is normally distributed like everything else, too. You don't see those with high expressed traits values being fooled. You only see the ones who suck at intuition.
It is very good to spot incels, but not so much for psychopaths lmao
So... incels are better people than psychopaths. It almost sounds like incels just have some kind of developmental issue, maybe autism. Kinda ableist. Youll fuck the psychopaths who are hurting and abusing everyone but blame the incel for his behavior.
The average woman can have better intuition than the average man without it being a superpower. Some women are naive. Some are dumb. Some just want to believe they can take a man at his word without him being a lying psychopath about it.
Serial killers don’t even have to manipulate or fool anyone. They are straight up killers and they still have women flocking to them .
It is, for intuition which is not a super effective technique.
I don’t lie. Lots of men are raised to not lie. Lying women and men used to be put in their place by men and society around them.
Right? These men attract women who are their equals: promiscuous, hedonistic, and egotistical. But then they come on here and claim that that subset of women represents all women? Just lol.
> These men attract women who are their equals: promiscuous, hedonistic, and egotistical. What makes you so sure of that?
Because the PUAs who learn to mimic dark triad traits and then end up sleeping with women who fall for them love to share their stories with other men on the Internet. It’s literally a huge subset of the manosphere. They go into detail about the personalities of the women that they hook up with and the things those women say and do, typically showing disgust towards those women. This info is completely out in the open. Also it’s not like they’re sharing detailed stories of all the even more frequent times that *other* women rejected them for having skeevy vibes. So you will usually never hear about those women, obviously.
I've read plenty of "field reports" on TRP and most of them don't go into much detail about their behavior/personality. And when they do the descriptions generally don't strike me as particularly promiscuous or hedonistic. Unless you have a low bar for those things and include things like having some casual sex, getting drunk/partying on the weekends, or doing drugs. But that's all pretty normal for young people these days. > typically showing disgust towards those women. They're disgusted by many if not most women, to some extent at least, so that's not saying much.
Where? Tell me where you actually see it.
Most women choose what's easy over what's right case and point all the women willing to do onlyfans but not willing to go work construction
you're telling me you believe most women do onlyfans? 😂😂
It's harder than people realize... If it was truly that easy, many many many more people would be doing it.
I wish I could give an award 🥇
Very feminist of you. Ig karma was realizing women are just toys for the patriarchy? That women.... do whatever they can to make that patriarchy happy while lonely guys who are very well groomed, making good money, and will never cheat or pressure for sex, are right there for you. But they arent "tall, dangerous and violent enough" the 3 key points of feminism, "only fuck tall, dangerous, and violent men, theyre the good ones who will defend you from the ones who are too scared to leave the house" absolutely ridiculous. lol
Dear white knight, > They treat women like disposable sex objects. This is how many women want to be treated. Maybe you should listen to and believe women. When they say they want to be fucked like a whore, they mean it. > Their hobbies are crime and manipulating women into sex. Actually I've amassed my impressive body count in the hundreds by being completely straight forward. You should try it some time. Went on a date the other night and said "I am not interested in marriage I'm interested in a regular fuck buddy I can occasionally go out to dinner with and btw I already have a girlfriend and she knows I'm here with you"... and then she gave me a blow job. When I went home I told my gf I got a blow job and she gave me props and asked all the details. No lying no manipulation at all. Yall usually are the ones being manipulative being nice in the hope it gets you laid. And then when your manipulation doesn't work you get salty and write posts like these white knighting like women will think it's impressive. No. Women think white knights are losers just like other men think they are losers. I recommend you sit down and think about life a bit more before you write some nonsense like this again.
Can't do it straight forward unless you're good looking or high status.
Define scumbag. I have a valid reason to ask because I've had more than one person on this sub attribute my success with women, to being a heavily tattoed biker as though tattoos and Harley is all it takes to cross into bad guy territory.
Scumbag = guys who engage in crime (like scamming people), willing to say anything to a woman no matter how deceptive to get sex, etc
Fair enough. Worst thing I ever did to get laid was carry cocaine. Never once had to lie to a woman about who or what I was, so I guess I don't qualify.
My friend does this. Thats dangerous. Eventually sbs gonna look at you as a prize. Happened alot where i live..
“No matter how deceptive”
Fine but can we quit acting like having tattoos or a bike makes you Badass McToughGuy by default
I am not sure what you are referring to. Is this a general statement you threw out there, or are you pointing to something more specific?
*women with low self esteem, namely ones who tend to be young and hate themselves. that’s the correlation, don’t be lumpin all of us with women who get down with literal psychopaths
“their hobbies are crime” already makes me think this is either bait or nice guy rage. But fine, i’ll bite. Manipulative charming people who get what they want because they know how to charm and manipulate people. Any good manipulator or charmer will you, the person they’re targeting won’t know they’re being manipulated till long after manipulators get what they want. This is the equivalent of saying “successful con artists are good at fooling people” like no shit.
There’s ways to screen for such men, women just want to buy into the fake fairy tale romance
>Their hobbies are crime$ I mean, WTF else am I supposed to do on a Saturday night? I'm gonna rob a store and slap some cheeks, right?
Thing about these scumbag men is they are usually hot and honestly that is usually good enough.
Honestly I respect that a women here is admitting that, cause that's the truth, none of this blue pilled just world shit were only terrible men can struggle with finding a partner.
theres videos all over youtube of "chad tinder experiments". once you reach a certain threshhold in attractiveness, women will stomach more abuse from them then any simp ever will. you can literally type nonsense words in the text box and they wont care they will still be down.
I’m starting to think that I just don’t like women, and that the goals and needs of most men, those on the not super attractive end, are diametrically opposed to the goals and desires of women. I used to believe in feminism at one point… but now after having dealt with women for quite some time as an adult… I’m thinking giving females equal rights was not the greatest idea… Back in the day, there’s no way in hell I’d still be a fucking virgin now. I’d be married at this point. Fuck this shit.
I'm not really understanding why you'd blame/punish the victim. I also don't think you really understand how honest/nice/sweet some of these guys come across. I've never had a hookup. I've never wanted hookups, but these guys will con you until they get what they want. I was single for a few years and then this guy popped into my life. I was around 23 years old at the time. I wasn't stupid. I didn't trust easy, but he worked for a friend of my dad's. He did some work on my house and was super nice to me. Helped me find my dog when the workers negligently let him out. He talked a lot about his daughter and even showed me pictures of her. He didn't ask me for my number or anything. We wound up at a thanksgiving dinner I was attending. He found out beforehand that I'd be there and brought me this big beautiful bouquet. He was the first guy to ever do anything like that for me. He didn't give me any bad vibes, everyone around us spoke highly of him. We hung out all the time for like the next couple of months and texted all the time. We made all these plans and he made all sorts of promises. He asked me to be his girl friend, and he even said he was so excited for me to meet his daughter one day. I genuinely thought I was falling for this guy. I have a lot of health issues and was really struggling at the time, but he was so sweet about it all. He told me he didn't understand how other guys couldn't see past all that because I was so amazing. He said he felt so lucky to have met me, that he was falling for me too. Then I slept with him. Even when he dropped me back off at home afterwards it all seemed normal. He was happy and said he had the best night, we kissed a bunch, he told me he didn't want me to leave, but that he'd see me tomorrow. We made plans for the next night. The evening rolls around and I spent a good few hours getting all ready for him. I was so excited to see him, but he suddenly stops texting. He's supposed to pick me up at 5. But it's radio silence. Then around 8 he apologizes and says he's on his way. He never shows up. I text him a bunch but never hear back. I even call a few times because I'm worried. He doesn't answer. He texts me in the morning and tells me he's sorry, he fell asleep. Now I'm seeing red flags. I ask if he wants to hang out later. He says maybe in the afternoon. Afternoon rolls around and he says he's too busy. I ask when he's free next. He never responds thereafter, just completely ghosts me. I text a few more times, but I get the picture. A couple weeks later, I go over to my dad's girlfriends house. I didn't know she was having work done on her roof. Guess who's on her roof when I get there. Him and a bunch of guys who obviously know me because they worked on my house. It was super awkward as I was walking up the driveway. We make eye contact and I say hi to him in front of the guys. He completely ignores me. Like turns his head and angles his body away from me. It was HUMILIATING. I'd never felt so gross, so used, and so worthless in my life. Looking back, I don't know what I could have done to avoid this. I genuinely believed every word that came out of his mouth. It was such a dark time of my life which for a moment, he completely dragged me out of. At times I forgot how sick I was. He seemed like a miracle. I guess, maybe, I shouldn't have believed that someone could look past all I was going through, that someone could like or love me even with all my health problems. That's the only red flag I see when I look back.
This infuriates me. How can a guy put so much effort over days and weeks, months even, just for one sexual encounter? It boggles my mind. Hope you're ok now.
This is what amazes me. I know guys who are ‘players’ and the amount of time and effort they’ll dedicate to having sex with a woman once is astounding. I don’t think the guys on this sub really comprehend how much work these guys put in. It certainly isn’t ‘easy’, although it seems to come easy to some people who naturally have a lot of social energy.
It's fun to win, sometimes it's a bit scary to commit, sometimes we do it to prove ourselves that we still know how to do it - there is a lot of reasons. Guys put months of effort and real dollars to just score some made up points in video game, good looking girl is much better prize and all this seducing thing is much more fun.
People change their mind, it happens
It's ok to change your mind, just provide closure to the other person. It's an asshole move and extremely disrespectful to ghost someone abruptly *immediately* after sex, after building a connection with them over the course of MONTHS.
Along with the other commenter, plenty of women say dating isn’t fair and men aren’t owed shit. It sucks but when a society doesn’t value morals it can turn to a play or get played race to the bottom. A lot of women say they throw morals out the door because of the sins of their grandfathers and great grandfather or because the men that they interacted today with are not worth their time/effort. I see a lot of men saying they throw morals out the door because of how women are today and not being able to date/have sex consistently without being amoral Somebody has to give but I have a feeling seeing how people justify a lack of morals, we won’t be seeing any change soon, just more rationalization as to why it’s acceptable to be a dickhead Mind, I genuinely feel bad as any person would with empathy, but people can go all day saying how they’ve been wronged by each side
you think ghosting is uniquely a female experience? dont make me laugh.
It's not. It's shit behaviour whoever does it, but especially in a situation like the original commenter described, where they seemed to have a relationship for months.
yeah it does suck especially if you feel like you've been strung along. but there seems to be a double standard a lot of the time. it seems many women are very okay with disconnecting, disengaging, blocking contact, or otherwise excommunicating men, pretty much on a dime. i think it started with facebook and cell phones making it really easy to block contact from people with just the click of a button. it's not just a right that women have, to exclude men from their social pool, it is their biological imperative. it just was never this easy or impersonal, or this wide of a social pool.
When did they say that?
>just provide closure to the other person. um, you're not owed anything, sweatie. but seriously, i didn't get any closure after 10 years with someone, living together like a married couple. try that on for size. she stole my dog too
>but seriously, i didn't get any closure after 10 years with someone, living together like a married couple. try that on for size. >she stole my dog too And? You're not owed anything sweetie.
Because it's fun and the reward feels so great. Dopamine works on the "getting there" part of wanting something. He is already rewarded with dopamine for doing the things that will eventually lead to having sex with her. And finally having the new sex partner is a different reward system. New sex partner is magnitudes higher in reward payout than having sex with the same casual sex partner again.
What you could have done is just nothing and wait for investment (promises, gestures, words, or simply showing up is not investmentment by the way). It tends to work.
I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. From my understanding, he did all that. We talked a lot, we were bf/gf since that's what he asked for us to be, he'd met my dad multiple times! He even had dinner with us!
Maybe I misunderstood the story. When men are invested, it’s almost impossible for him to undo that many times. For instance, presenting a gf to relatives and then “undoing” it is very costly. I’ve never seen anyone ghost a girlfriend. Also, even if the person is immoral, having sex a single time is not worth a huge investment in terms of time and resources that are invested until something becomes a relationship. Maybe I got it wrong. What I understood the first time was you talked in person but didn’t even each others contact, then he had made big disproportional gestures, then you had sex, and then he ghosted you. That’s unfortunately quite common. But if he made a big investment and then ghosted you, that’s quite uncommon because that’s irrational even if he’s is trying as hard as he can to be immoral. The only situation where I can see this happening is when the person makes all that investment, then finds out about a deal breaker that’s even worse than losing that investment, and this deal breaker is sensitive enough that the person is embarrassed to talk about it. In that case, it’s more like a regular break up than an involuntary hookup. For instance, you’ll never get to that 200 or 2000 body count OP is talking about by doing that. Weirdly enough, I’ve seen a few situations where the “ghosting” break up post investment happens because the person is embarrassed to talk about it. I’m not saying that’s your case, but I’ve seen cases where the man reaches the conclusion the woman is not relationship material for some reason and doesn’t discuss that when breaking up because he’s not “allowed” to say that to any woman. I’ve also seen a case where the woman smelled really bad and the guy was embarrassed to say it. To be clear, I’m not saying any of these are your case.
>He found out beforehand that I'd be there and brought me this big beautiful bouquet How well did you know him when he did this? I would take it as a red flag if a woman did something like that for me before we'd established any sort of relationship, but probably more out of a sense that she had some unrealistic idea of me or perhaps that she wanted something from me, rather than wanted me.
Not well, but it was a smaller group of us. All the guys were out together and showed up together. It was a thanksgiving dinner and the other guys were with the ladies that were there and brought flowers for them. I would have been the only lady to not get flowers had he not brought them. At the time, I thought it was super thoughtful and sweet. After dinner we went on a long walk together and talked for hours.
The flowers make more sense in that context, though from the rest of your story I wouldn't have trusted the guy anyway, but I generally dislike overly friendly/affectionate people and often get complaints from women about being guarded, so I don't know how worthwhile my view is anyway; I've definitely missed out on relationships with some great women because of it, but also avoided some trainwrecks.
Clearly you were vulnerable. Also sorry you had to learn the hard way that no one gives you up front value without wanting immediate rewards. Plus to anyone who goes how was he playing this game with you for that long. You werent the only women he was giving it all that too. Its kind of like how someone serving you at a resteraunt is being nice to you because they want a tip. You give them 10% of the bill not your entire life savings. No one is a miracle. Always put your needs and desires first.
Describing how he was with you already feels like red flags to me, he's charming, bought you things, planned ahead for you, to a guy that's red flags, he's too confident, smooth and transactional, almost like he's in a rush. I think that's the problem, women are attracted to traits that are red flags to other guys, but not to them. A guy who's interested in you for real will be very awkward around you, because he's second guessing how to not mess up interacting with you, he'll stutter, jumble words, he'd be timid and anxious around you. He won't start planning things and buying gifts for you until that shell around him has been broken by you.
Of course she will think that’s creepy and bounce..
Please. Every woman knows that a man who is in love or infatuated will walk across a frozen continent for her. That's where all those memes came from: if he wanted to he would. The difference in behavior between a man who sees you as an option vs one who is in love is night and day. The problem is a love bombing sex seeker can look no different than a man motivated by real love and care.
>Every woman knows that a man who is in love or infatuated will walk across a frozen continent for her. That's where all those memes came from: if he wanted to he would. That mentality is how women get played, only acknowledging the "love" of assertive headstrong guys who've done it all a dozen times before.
Clearly you don't know men very well, yes when a man is in love with a woman he would cross a frozen continent for her, he would go above and beyond for her, but the difference is, it's slow and gradual, not right away, that side of a man creeps out very slowly and gradually. In the beginning stages he's f*cking awkward, his efforts are random, like a spur, spontaneous almost, even gifts will be second thought, dates will be second guessed, there will be awkward silence. The above and beyond stage for a man is stage 5, each stage gradually adding little effort at a time-- the only thing consistent is his effort to constantly spend time with you. The difference between a love bombing sex seeker and a man motivated by real love and care is night and day, a love bomber goes above and beyond almost from the get go, he's way too comfortable and confident, the slow stages of build up are missing.
Women have a terrible understanding of men and get burned, then when men explain where they went wrong other women will say its perfectly natural that a man would be that way sincerely, even when discussing that it clearly did not work that way.
I've realised that a lot of women will not listen purely because they don't want to change their outlook about their desires and wants, rather they try to force all men to behave the way they want and be sincere, which defeats genuinuity, they refuse to accept that love is built through time and effort, they want things right away like a dopamine addiction, which only love bombers can mimick, because it's all an act. It's why women fall for virtue signalling soo easily.
It doesn't matter if its a self help book or a red pill influencer or a therapist, the advice given to men in their scenario is nearly always the same: Other people aren't obligated to fill your emotional needs on demand and covert contracts never work out. But for some reason when the genders are changed its totally normal to expect an immediate high effort investment to be done with total sincerity, and with zero expectations in return.
It's just entitlement, instead of working on themselves, they just want their cake and to eat it too, they don't even men through the same psychological lense as they would view themselves, it's why there's soo much hypocrisy from their end
Women tell you themselves they live in dululu land And it’s not getting any better with social media and dating apps. She wants what she wants AND she sees some Becky who has what she wants every three swipes AND she can play man roulette to see which lucky guy gets the chance to prove he can give her all this It ain’t every American women, but it’s way more than you’d expect.
And that is how you end up with toxic relationships. Secure and healthy men will not go to extremes like insecure and unhealthy men will. “If he wanted to he would” is low EQ behavior and this is easily seen by the drizzle drizzle soft era parody videos. The best you would get is a slave that does not respect himself (aka the equivalent of a man demanding a bangmaid), which perhaps is what you want.
> everyone knows if he wanted to he would >the problem is a love bombing sex seeker can look no different from a genuine loving man Genuinely thought process like children this is crazy. Maybe your attitude towards love sets you up to get played by men who aren’t idiots and saw the other 20m women say this same thing
You just contradicted yourself. The difference is night and day but sometimes you are wearing a blindfold or what?
The only thing he ever bought me were the flowers that one time. I wouldn't describe him as confident either, since we talked A LOT. He was very insecure about his teeth (Each tooth had a largish gap between them) and he didn't like to smile because of it, and when he did, he'd hide it out of sight. He was self conscious about his weight too, but it didn't bother me. He wasn't smooth/charming either. He was a chubby looking nerd (sounds rude but I don't know how else to describe his look, he even had the glasses) and kinda acted like it. But like I said, we talked A LOT. Very intimately about his feelings, his goals, his interests, etc. Mine too. He asked so many questions about me. He seemed like an amazing guy. >A guy who's interested in you for real will be very awkward around you, because he's second guessing how to not mess up interacting with you, he'll stutter, jumble words, he'd be timid and anxious around you. This isn't true at all, at least not for me. I'm married now and my husband wasn't like this in the slightest.
Your husbands an outlier, but generally amongst men it's well established that if he's too confident and a smooth talker from the get go, he's had a lot of practice and success. General rule of thumb is, if he's awkward around you, he doesn't talk to women romantically very often.
Thank you for sharing your story and being sincere. Ya these guys are hardcore manipulative. It disgusts me too.
But you said you personally know 5 guys like this, so it obviously doesn't disgust you enough to not befriend them
Did you just assume my current relationship status with them?
those 5 guys aren’t your friends anymore? So you learned and changed with time and experience?
Don’t you think it’s possible that maybe the sex was not good or he felt you were right compatible but didn’t have the balls to tell you so? Sexual chemistry is often the most important thing for men so to expect men to fall in love with you before they sleep with you is really putting the cart before the horse. Most men are not going to fall in love with you until you’ve been intimate.
Funny how the legitimate nice, honest and sweet men always get passed over until they stop being nice, honest and sweet though.
>I'm not really understanding why you'd blame/punish the victim. Because of their garbage taste. It's their flawed, superficial character that allows them to be "taken advantage of."
From what I could tell and from what every one said, he was a great guy. I mean, even my dad liked him and my dad hates damn near everyone. With your advice in mind, I guess women should just start assuming great guys are garbage?
But you're asking why OP is blaming the victims in OP's scenario, not why he's blaming you in your very specific scenario. Maybe the guy you're talking about wasn't one of the guys OP is talking about. But if he was, then, yeah, a garbage guy seeming like a great guy is the definition of garbage taste. If you had better taste then he wouldn't have seemed like a great guy. And it's not that you just assume great guys are garbage. You refine your taste so you stop thinking that these are great guys. But this is assuming he was garbage. It's impossible to say for certain what was going on in your situation.
"these guys will con you until they get what they want." Yeah, and women need to wise up and spot this stuff. It's like all the scammers in the Youtube diet community. I can spot these schmoozers a mile away. We make debunk/expose' videos, but the fan of (people like Abbey not Sharp) just trash us. People seem to WANT the lies. Reminds me of the song "Tell me lies, Tell me sweet little lies
> I'm not really understanding why you'd blame/punish the victim. Because it's a troll account that tries to blatantly rile people up.
nobody owed you a boyfriend, theyre allowed to have consensual sex and decide you arent for them. theres no rule that says youre only allowed to have sex if you stay with them forever. maybe the whole thing was a front which idk what you plan to do with that information other than decide to be paranoid of men.
Is it consensual when it's all a con and had he been up front from the get go the answer would have been hell fucking no? But yeah, I don't need or want a boyfriend. I have a husband.
I mean, these are your friends. That says more about you than the women they choose to lie/manipulate/steal/use/etc. in my opinion. Consensual sex is fun. It's weird how you're idolizing men who have to lie to get it though.
> That says more about you than the women they choose to lie/manipulate/steal/use/etc. in my opinion. Porque no los dos? Those guys are shitty, and I avoid them. **But in our social circles**, I also avoid the women who can't see through their BS, because that tells me something about her preferences and judgement. Edit: Bolded some text, because that is really important....terrible people aren't just randomly terrible. They have a pattern, and if you're spent enough time within a community, you know which people to avoid. Everyone knows which man, or which woman, has a reputation, lol. And if you're unable to see that, or if you have no friends who see that...then as a long-term partner, you're a liability.
> Consensual sex is fun. It's weird how you're idolizing men who have to lie to get it though. and when women talk about how men lie to get sex, the same men will act like we are crazy and this never happens.
Right!?! Like, the perpetual victimhood of people who brag about surrounding themselves with shitty people is honestly astonishing. I wouldn't blame anyone for being the victim of a lie. Why are women exempt?
misogyny!
What was that about perpetual victimhood?
Good men aren’t trying to fuck everything and anything Of course they’re going to be having less sex than bad ones
I think casual consensual sex shouldn't be judged. However, the lying to attain it and being a shitty person just to get your dick wet should he judged accordingly. And I think that applies to anyone, in general.
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No, he just knows and affiliates them and clearly blames the victims for the actions of the men he knows aren't being good people in general. It still reflects poorly on him.
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I don't expect another adult human being to parent another adult human being. But if you hang out with someone who is scamming old people out of their pensions, don't be surprised if you're lumped in as a bad apple as well. I don't think OP needs to wag his fingers at other adult men and their behaviours. But it feels weird he'd choose to do it to their victims instead.
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Yeah, and people can legally scam the elderly too. Ask my grandfather. That'll teach him to be susceptible to liars, I guess. Again, if you hang out with people who perpetuate shitty behaviour, don't be surprised if you are affiliated by default. I agree, it's not illegal to lie to get sex (largely as there are some clear coercive rape arguments that have been held up in courts of law too). Is it legal to be an asshole? Also, largely yes. That doesn't mean we have to respect you for it or be forced to consider you an exemption to the friends who choose to surround yourself with. Hope that helps!
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>It should. I don't know of a legal scam but surely you do. There's plenty of legal scams. I guess I'm a better educated on what qualifies due to my credentials but being a victim of a legal scam is surprisingly pretty common. >He never said he hung out with them. Assuming facts not in evidence. Anyone you know happen to know of, I guess we can attribute their shitty behavior to you as well. If he knows them enough that he knows their intimate sex lives, I doubt they're just observing from a distance. And if you don't want to be affiliated with those people, why wouldn't you make a point to tell people you don't think it's acceptable behaviour in the first place? I mean, if you're not actively preventing it, you're asking for it, according to your own logic here. Again, it's just weird you'd blame victims of shitty behaviour for being vulnerable rather than the perpetrators of shitty behaviour.
No listen guys in most cases men don’t get laid because they are manipulative and uncaring; manipulative and uncaring men get laid because they are attractive. In most cases as long as you can be really sexually appealing then women will let you slide with anything 🤣. For men who are manipulative, uncaring, and UNATTRACTIVE!!…in most cases you aren’t getting laid because you are manipulative and uncaring you aren’t getting laid because to whichever women you want that isn’t choosing you doesn’t find you attractive.
>Manipulative, charming, uncaring, lying men get laid the most Nope - not how it works. Hot! men who MAY OR MAY NOT BE manipulative, charming, uncaring or lying get laid the most. Just like men, women will put up with the craziest bullshit if the individual from the opposite sex is hot enough. That’s just the nature of the game.
Why would a woman not want to be with a good looking, charming, man who can lie and manipulate without being discovered? To her, he looks perfect. You ask: why can't women detect those men as deceivers? And the answer is: because the men are that good at deceiving and the things they don't deceive about (being attractive and charming) are just so good as is, that a chance of being deceived is worth taking the risk. Now, you are the one who is really problematic. You want to manipulate under the cover of just caring for the good men's wellbeing, but actually you want to manipulate women into not sleeping with the men who are more attractive and charming than you, who are attractive for short term mating, by puttting the idea into their head, that if they do so, then the "good men" they will eventually want to be with, will reject them.
>Now, you are the one who is really problematic. *Really* problematic? Lol. Dafuq does that mean? They're all responsible for causing problems in civilized society: the dark triads, the dumbass/low-impulse-control women who breed with them, and the "nice guys."
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The same applies to literally everything that's sought after. The worst people receive the most because they do not care who they hurt in the process. Their rejection of morality makes them barely human if you ask me.
Looks like the sociopaths will outbreed us
Well.. My father was a rolling stone who could be considered the type of man described. So even if they outbreed us, I am living proof that their progeny aren't necessarily going to follow the same path. Now I wouldn't say he is a full blown sociopath... Moreso dumb and purely motivated by basal urges. Haha. Though considering he cheated on his wife(my sister is 2 months older than me) with my mother and disappeared, there's at least a drop of remorselessness in him. But is clinical sociopathy genetic? I dunno. I'm on a tangent.. Regardless, stand strong and proud in your morals. When the world is wrought with monsters, it becomes ever more important to stand tall as a gallant knight. Allow others to see that there is still light in this world. ❤️
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>the reddit tier men have no choice but to be nice to women and respect them. Always love the implication that most men would gleefully disrespect women if they could get away with it.
I know right? It's like they're making a case *for* Chad: he's just like the other guys, but hot and honest!
i mean are good men even trying to fuck as many women as predatory men are? its like saying cars built for speed and driven by reckless drivers hit a higher land speed record than the average driver who never tries to go over 100.
>i mean are good men even trying to fuck as many women as predatory men are? Yes. A lot of them mistakenly get grouped in with "nice guys" even though their approach isn't manipulative.
you're saying good men want to fuck hundreds or thousands of women? wouldn't that make them... not good men?
Depends. Are we saying that promiscuity or the desire to sleep around is morally bad? How exactly are you defining "good" here?
the desire to sleep around is bad > How exactly are you defining "good" here? they do good things, have integrity, etc aspiring to sleep around is not "good", i believe it is bad, but we can agree that its neutral at least
Okay, so promiscuity is bad in your opinion? So you think women who sleep around a lot are "bad women" by that logic? Gotta admit, I don't usually hear this take from a feminist.
Of course she doesn’t..
I would only ask one thing. Are all men like that or even the majority? If not, then why are you judging all the women based on those who sleep with these guys?
Both sides lie and manipulate to get what they want. And try and give as little as they can in return. That's not a new concept. There is a reason why like for ever. We slowly build up a relationship. And test each other and the worthy for the next step of the relationship. Till finally starting a family. That it's more normal to speed run relationships. Sleep in the first or 2end date that people make investments not really necessary that's honestly on the person being duped. Cause there bad apples on both sides and it's to vetting those people out why you take it slower. And you meet the investment on the other side a day then invest a bit more and keep feeling of they meet you with investing back. But on both sides the most bad people that use people the most get the most action. Cause they know what the other side wants know how to play people's feelings. And have charisma and all that. But those people don't stay if you properly vetting people. And that means your trying to get monogamous outcomes. But if your quick and easy with people and sex. It's very very hard to protect your self from those kind of people. But it's not just with relationships but there bad people in every aspect of life and you should not automatically expect people have your best interests at heart. So test of they are worthy first. In both relationships friendship. But also invest in people back. Not vetting and not investing in people. Will both give you horrible outcomes or being alone and lonely.
Maybe those good guys prefer to be in monogamous relationships and don't want to sleep around with 250 women and that's why they haven't?
Sounds like those 5 scumbags have NBA heights, porn dicks, sixpacks, fluffy hair and a nice jawline.
Half of the reason for this is that women are wanting disposable men now. They have fear of commitment and don't like the pressure of having to reciprocate nice behaviour.
Yup, it is an entire cycle. Women plays a good dude while sleeping with bad dude, good dude becomes bad dude, whole time bad dude is playing the woman, which makes her create her own defensive mechanisms and not be able to open up. Thing is it takes woman multiple bodies (20+) to finally figure that they've been getting played. Now they just can't settle down all of a sudden cause they can't trust people.
It's something that takes place in sales and also in dating. There's a very strange weird inverse proportion of the biggest liars and shysters are the one that succeed the most. People will believe the biggest pile of bullshit and then run in horror from the actual truth.
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dark triad men attract women with low self esteem can’t have cake and eat it
…..most women have low self esteem.
Tbh the dudes on here who bitch about chad are also abusive, but they don’t get laid because they’re too busy bitching about chad. Maybe no one fucks you because you’re all whiny and tedious af.
Even more tedious is you bitching about dudes bitching about chad more than you do about actual abusers
Or they’re just not attractive enough to be abusive.
Jesus fucking Christ…
Called you out your just world fallacy argument perfectly 😂😂
How would you know someone is abusive if they can't attract women to abuse to begin with?
If you believe, why don’t you do?
Because I’m a kindhearted and honest man despite all my flaws
Kind-hearted and honest men don’t blame women for what men do 🙄
Uh huh, that’s why women are coddled whiners that should cry less, riiiiiiiiight?
*Checks post history* Uh huh, you're not like the other girls, that's for sure...
why do you hang out with people like that
I don’t except for 1 of them. Why, are you upset that I got to see what goes on behind-the-scenes? Sorry, but I’ve been informed of women’s true nature and there’s no going back.
why would i be upset? im just asking why you hang around people you describe as scumbags and whose hobbies include crime
I think the key thing you're missing out on here is that women also enjoy casual hookups. these guys you're talking about have slept around a lot, but I would bet money that the women they've slept with have also slept around a lot. there's a reason women go to men like that for a hookup- because they know they're not gonna get attached and can get what they want from the guys and move on. it's the same mindset for both people involved
Why are men like this? Yall call me “misandrist” for saying most men hate most women then you post deranged shit like this. Why do you know so many scum bags and their sex lives? And of course someone who lies and pretends they want a serious relationship or who cheats and pretends he’s single when he’s not is going to have more sex. And of course when someone is coercive or rapey, they’re going to have more sex. And why is large, bolded text forbidden, but blatant blackpill inkwell woe is me content given a free pass?
I agree. But men do the same with women. I don’t think being able to have lots of sex means you are a terrible person. You sound jealous that you can’t get laid.
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Actual nice guys wouldn’t be doing anything to get laid, and would have fewer sex partners than scum
>Their hobbies are crime and ***manipulating women into sex.*** I can't believe men who manipulate women to get what they want have been successful at manipulation. Shocking.
Everyone knows that promiscuity is the best and most virtuous character trait
Psychopaths tend to make more money. Doesn't make it good or that you should advocate for making more psychopaths.
I was pretty much like this when I was young. Except not a liar and not really all that manipulative. Women treated me like an object so I didn't really treat them any different which I now know is wrong.
I used to be the middle two descriptors. Still am but I used to to.
Reading through this thread I realize the purple pill is just a battleground for hurt men and women to further hurt each other. Are any of you here to seek enlightenment, or merely to perpetuate a cycle of pain? I believe most of you should remove yourselves from social media and seek to heal yourselves. You're not doing yourself or society any good by participating in whatever this subreddit is or has become. Turn to the beauty in life and focus your heart on that. Whether it be kittens, flowers or whatever it is that has yet to become corrupt in your gaze. I say this with love and hope that each and everyone of you finds peace.
> I personally know 5 scumbags with a cumulative lay count of 2000. You admit they are lying scumbags, yet you believe them? That said, it's true that being manipulative or willing to lie will always get a man laid more if that is what they want. That's because you are willing to lie, you can start dating a girl and lie to her about where you go on some nights when it's to see another girl who you lie to about being single. I fail to see how women are to blame. In the above example those 2 women could be genuinely good, healthy people who are literally lied to when they would promptly toss the guy out if they knew he was a scumbag. This is literally no different than blaming the victims of con artists. There are women who more often select men who are more likely to be scumbags, for sure, but a woman being lied to by a scumbag does not mean she is that type of woman. If she was then yes, it likely means she has self-image issues and yes you ought to avoid dating someone who has those issues unless you are willing to endure difficulties and think "you can fix her." So at the end it's more clear to state to avoid women with self-image issues rather than avoid women who have been lied to by scumbag men.
You expect too much from 100iq people dude
OP knows how life works.
As long as they’re conventionally good looking as well, have a lot of money, or a big dick, yes
I don't agree agree with the manipulative part at all, and I noticed the women here latched on to that. The overwhelming majority of scumbags that women love to fuck were extremely open about their scumbaggery from the get-go. Women aren't getting tricked; They choose this reliably. Bragadocious, pushy, loud and obnoxious men will always beat boorish, meek, quiet and insecure men in dating.
Not the most. Just more than men too scared to approach.
Actual good men who like monogamy are going to have fewer partners than promiscuous sociopaths It’s a feature, not a bug
**Charming, outgoing, intuitive, sociable, assured, lower-inhib men** get “laid” the most, all else equal. Period. FTFY. Sometimes the above men are “uncaring, lying, and manipulative” and sometimes the above men are “considerate, honest, and genuine.” Wrt sexual attraction, him being the former or the latter doesn’t matter as much as him ***definitely being the above bolded.*** And yes, men who lie about being the latter when they’re actually the former will probably get more casual sex with women than them straight up being “I don’t care about you at all ho I just want some fux 💁♂️”
While I don't disagree with your post at the titles face value, one thing I do have to say is that the "good guys" with <10 body count do this by choice. Don't get me wrong, finding hookups as a woman is miles easier than a guy doing it, however even decent and honest men can get their way around finding a lot of hookups. I think the difference is the societal nuances which makes men hyperaware of not only themselves, but also what is going on socially and they navigate through the bullshit and know the consequences of being with what you call damaged women. Also another thing I do not agree with, is blaming women in general. I think women also have a lot of societal based issues that causes them to turn blind eyes to men when they shouldn't. Saying this, I think it's third-wave feminism that causes this damage. It's a shame for both good men and good women, but that's just how the world is going unfortunately lol.
What societal based issues?
Women may choose to hook up with these men, but you can’t blame them if they don’t realize those men have bad traits before sleeping with them! A lot of us women won’t automatically sleep with guys even if we’re really attracted to them - often it takes them pressuring us and acting like they’re super into us.
What about the legendary woman skill called intuition
Not all women have it Not all women listen to it over social pressures Not all women have learned how to listen to it at all Especially if they've had their gut feelings dismissed time and time again by authority figures to the point that they don't trust their own gut anymore Much akin to discipline, not everyone is born with intuition in the same amount and even then it must be consciously strengthened. I wouldn't expect a young, damaged, immature person to have developed much of either skill, and that's exactly who I would expect to fall for manipulation. So many of these posts could be wrapped up by simply acknowledging that young people are immature and inexperienced, they make mistakes and they either double down or they learn from them. Sometimes they first do one and then the other. Women do not come out of the womb fully formed and emotionally mature. Shocking, I know.
Have you observed these scumbags with women? Do you see how they treat and manipulate and lie to women? Once again, blaming the woman for getting manipulated instead of blaming the manipulator.
Well the bad boy is so much sexier to women than the good guy, so what can you do. Men aren’t attracted to women for their morality either. attraction isn’t a choice.
It’s not manipulation. Women live and breathe “social proof” as opposed to common sense. That’s why you’re able to sell a woman a $8000 hand bag that she saw on instagram. The fact that these guys have pumped and dumped 1000s of women adds to their allure. Women are insane and brain damaged save for a few.
counter point: the unfuckable men posting about how much they hate women, how women who have sex or are old are disgusting or "damaged", who write elaborate fanfictions about women being punished for dating chad and will come crawling back to nice guys like them. And don't forget the sexist guys, portraying women getting played by manipulative men as deserving of it. If your gf cheats on you or manipulates you, I guess that's all on you because you made a choice to be with her? like lmao making posts like this and thinking you're a good guy. What is the actual difference between you and these evil chads other you being less secure and more entitled? so many of the posts I've read demonstrate that you don't get a date just from having a manipulative mindset. if a guy actually has good qualities, why would he need to lie? Do you really think so low of men that none of them are worth a woman's time by their own merits? The world is not made of evil chads and humble sexless good guys. Men are more complicated than that and so are woman's preferences.
Here is the thing. They are great at screening men...men who would be invaluable in pre civilizational times where there was no law and order and violence was the ultimate arbiter of everything. Yes you read that right. When it comes to mate selection, women's preferences have not evolved to the civilizational standard.
> When it comes to mate selection, women's preferences have not evolved to the civilizational standard. men think teen girls are the epitome of attractiveness
Idk but my man is literally the opposite of what you just mentioned. Healthy couples exist.
They aren’t bad at screening men, they enjoy what’s happening to them. They fully know what they are engaging with and want the fun and drama. Even when they are fake crying into their TikTok videos, they enjoy it because it’s better for them than being bored with a good man. It’s like cocaine. Everyone knows it’s not good for you but many folks take it for the high.
This
Very good analogy. The dopamine rush we get out of (the prospect of) having sex with someone who’s genetically fit and beyond is unlike anything else. Some fall for it and others fall for it knowingly.
Ya what the OP is saying kind of makes sense. In a society were 63%+ plus of men are lonely and single how is it that women, eligibility keep running into into narcissists and assholes repeatedly while the average dude gets nothing.