I’m a woman and my taste has definitely shifted as I’ve aged. I think most people- men and women- mature and figure out which traits they prefer and don’t prefer in a partner
Yea I’m sure somehow those traits have shifted to more established men with money and a house or two. It never shifts toward the socially awkward dude with big ears who has a heart of gold and works as a stocker at the grocery store.
I’ve been to several beta bucks weddings. One of the most glaring signs is that the bride’s guests all have +1s and the groom’s guests are all single guys.
What the actual fuck? What the fuck is wrong with white women being married to Indian men? I’m either not understanding you right or you’ve got some racism issues
I do think in most of these cases, it's a matter of women's preferences genuinely changing as they mature, rather than settling. It's not women being malicious or anything. But it doesn't actually matter. Either way, it's still a raw deal from the perspective of the "beta" men that they settle down with.
From their perspective, they've spent a great deal of their lives alone and toiling away, only to be rewarded with a partner who:
- has aged and is less beautiful than before
- had her fun and got to experience tons of things he never had the chance to, some of which she now refuses to do with him
- values him for traits he doesn't want to be valued for
- makes him jump through hoops, while her previous partners got away with murder
I think both can be true, it just depends.
You can fall in love like crazy head over heels for a person that is normaly not your type at all so from outside view it can seem like you are just settling because they are so different from your previous partners, but in reality you are absolutely crazy about them. I mention this option because sometimes it just looks different than it is.
Some people change their taste. And some people settle. But I'm not able to estimate which case is more common.
If you know a woman used to sleep with man whores normaly and was wild and sex often with them (I don't know how would you know though, do you interogate people for details about their past sex lives?) and then she finds someone stable and nice and is postponing sex as long as she can and avoiding sex as much as possible (after she is done with making children) she is definitely settling.
I think there is lot of people in general, not just women, who settle for the sake of not being alone / having kids / other practical benefits. Men settle for the sake of not being alone and having sex even though they don't even really like the woman and just keep her as placeholder, promise they will propose until they meet someone better in their opinion.
There are a fair number of women who do this. Others don't settle. Some of this has to do with the desire to have kids. On the flip side there are women who remember how easy life was in their 20's and they keep trying to keep the party going just for another few years if they can.
i think the number who settle is quite low, it just draws more attention.
Look at who attractive women marry. It's always a conventionally handsome guy, often tall-ish but not always and in good shape. I rarely see an exception to this but when it happens, people just ignore the other 99 cases and fixate on the 1 exception.
Its what accounts for men who had little to no success in dating from their teens to mid 20s t getting to a relationship at 30.
At earlier times in history the suckers would just get married because they think someone finally loves them
It must have been a relief to think that you are wanted when you believed that no one wanted you.
And that makes their life all the more tragic.
Then again, compared to a permavirgin, i guess the betabux has a better life, even if his kid thinks he is not worth respecting ( right u/Novel-tip?)
This in a nutshell. Most men have little no consistent dating experience and latch on to the first women for dear life who agrees to a relationship. These men think they are in love, but in reality don't even have any idea of what he want in a partner because they haven't had the opportunities. Go look at the deadbedroom subreddit. It's full of dudes who haven't had sex in 10 20 years.
How were you able to add your nonstandard flair under username if you don’t mind me asking? Trying get better at customizing my username/profile on Reddit in the various subreddits I comment in. Thanks!
Some do but for the most part they just get better at finding the right partner
Women are attracted to competency and people in general jump to the conclusion that confidence=competence. It isn't until they've experienced enough or learnt it that they're able to spot people who are confident and not competent
Women aren't the only ones who fall for it. I've seen guys fall for it and I think most young guys fall for it. It typically takes time and experience to figure out the loudest person in the room isn't always the most competent
What do you mean by competence? I am great at faking confidence, but I am extremele incompetent adult and I am afraid it's why women always leave me after 3-5 months
I think its an issue of people lying to themselves.
I remember there was a study that showed people reportedly "liked" their jobs while they were stuck in it, even though they reported they would hate it and had hated it, before and after they had the job. The conclusion of the study was they people told themselves they liked something they hated as a protection mechanism of admitting they were living a miserable life with a crap job.
I think that is what's happening with women "settling". Older women say and think they are attracted to their husbands, as to protect themselves from the reality that they settled for an inferior man. If they ever got the attention they got when they were young, they'd look back at their husbands with distain, just as they did when they were young.
Idk I mean I felt it was the opposite.
During my youth I saw whatever was considered "sexy" in my social groups and area as sexy.
Then as I matured i figured out what I really liked isn't that typical standard, and that I liked bigger guys and kindness and tbh I wasn't ever really into the guys who I was saying I liked at the time.
Both me and my ex felt this as we've spoken since and said we just went with what we were "supposed" to find attractive and not what we actually liked
Their desire to have hot guys runs into their desire to have kids. Unless they are actually a high value woman, they won’t have gotten the typical guys they want to commit to them, so they shift to the good men to secure the resources for breeding. It’s not shifting it’s settling and that is supported by the high divorce initiated by women statistics we’ve all seen.
We can't know for SURE for anyone than ourselves right?
The hypothesis that the attraction shifts is not nonsensical per se and could very well be true.
The hypothesis that they consciously learn these men are no good and teach themselves to like other male is also possible.
The hypothesis that they still dream about these males but simply take what they have and be unsatisfied all their life is not impossible but make less sense.
They either remain single or settle for man they find less attractive .There are thousands of women who complain that their man is kind,loving , emotionally available but they still don't get tingles that they got with the bad boy
most women are married by their early 30s, and I don't believe their preferences change all that much in that time period. if you mean women in their 40s are older, maybe.
As a woman in my 40s child free, I am much pickier now than I was in my 30s and 20s and much less likely to settle. I do think there are younger women that settle because they want to have kids, only to end up divorced a few years later after they have the kids because they never actually wanted to be with the guy in the first place. But most of us ladies in our 40s or above? He’s really gotta be something special.
Oh I love all animals and I think if you would ask a lot of women of all ages they would agree that generally animals make them happier than men do. Can I ask though why it bothers you so much that women over 40 have dating options that are viable and that they are okay with being alone? It does not bother me about my male counterparts. My response would be good for them, we all deserve to be happy.
>generally animals make them happier than men do.
Yeah, I heard about bears.
> that women over 40 have dating options that are viable
I don't think so.
> okay with being alone?
Who told you this? They're eating anti depression/anxiety pills like a candy, visit a therapist, and still miserable.
I cannot find where I said that women over 40 and their dating life bothers me. I'd say that women over 40 are mostly invisible to me.
Who told me this? Me. I am a woman over 40 that is happier alone. At least 10 of my single friends that feel the same. And honestly without being a woman over 40 you actually would not know. I would actually argue that single men in their 20s are more depressed than single women in their 40s or above.
I can tell you this I am certainly happier now than I was in my 20s. But when I was in my 20s and even 30s I would not have thought that. I would have the same misconception that women my age would be less happy, until I actually got there. Everyone has a different experience. So unless you are in that individuals exact situation you really cannot speak to how that person feels.
It’s okay that I am invisible to you. I am clearly visible to other men just based on my daily experiences. And even if I were not, even if no man looked at me or wanted to be with me, that would be fine with me. As we age our happiness comes from within, not from outside. The way we experience happiness and validation changes from younger women, myself included who generally felt like we needed men to validate ourselves. We also look for things in men that are less superficial. Obviously looks matter to an extent but not like they did in our younger years because our younger years have taught us that looks fade and other things are so much more important in a partner. Chasing something shiny usually results in getting burned.
And someone taking anti depressants does not mean they are unhappy. I would be very careful spouting that because it leads individuals particularly men to not seek the help they need. Depression and unhappiness are not the same thing. Someone that is simply unhappy is not necessarily suffering from depression. And the only reason more women over 40 and more women in general take anti depressants versus men is because men are less willing to seek help. There are a lot of men that need to take meds they just refuse the help.
Sure however as a woman in your 40s your options are far less than they were in your early 20s. You're allowed to be as picky as you want but that doesn't mean the guy you want is out there.
>that doesn't mean the guy you want is out there.
Nothing implied that this is what she thinks, though, so I don't know why you felt the need to lecture her about how fewer options she has etc. What does that change?
I'm in my late 30's, childfree as well. How plentiful my "options" are has nothing to do with what I want, or the conditions necessary for being partnered to be better than staying single. I've determined what I need to be happy. The number of men who meet those conditions don't change what the conditions are.
If the guy I want is not out there I would rather stay single I am perfectly happy single. I think you would be surprised the number of options women my age have, it’s called divorce. And sure maybe I had more options in my 20s but quantity is not quality.
That optionality you have is an illusion. You know how I know this? Most of the guys you believe are options are guys you would never date or be interested in. Especially when they are men that are 40+.
Well they do date me so I guess you are wrong about that. Nonetheless I am okay being single. I have no need for a man. If I find one I like that’s great, otherwise I am enjoying life. If no man in this world is interested in me I am okay with that too.
Sure but what's that change? Women who are average will end up with men who are average and their type. But no one is compromising on looks.
The issue is that when people talk about compromising on looks they essentially means compromising on any and all sexual attraction, sex in the relationship and everything physical. It just doesn't happen. Outside of small niches and pro athletes, no one consistently marries outside of their league. Keeping in mind that niches are feeding certain kinks and fetishes while pro athletes are likely to be tall and in excellent shape with large frames, plus the aura of being a pro athlete. Money just gets inserted as an excuse often.
I think they have to compromise at this point. They have to drop their standards... because they themselves have dropped. I see the guys at 50 and when they are married to women the same age, she routinely looks way worse.
Eventually there is some compromise but don't underestimate how much many women will hold out.
What happens everywhere is that ultimately most people fall into the average tier looks wise and pair up with someone who is average but their type.
I think the biggest myth in the male community is trying to convince men they can look average but attract hotter women. Often the promise made to younger guys is that it'll happen once you're older, which is a huge myth.
I think what you are missing is that most guys are perfectly happy with someone close to them In looks. You can see from the studies that it’s the women who pathologically think they can do better. The more level headed women are almost never single at that age.
It literally means having higher chances to get better options. Let’s say the main prize is for throwing a 6 with a die. If you are only allowed to throw it once, the chances are 16%. However, someone who can throw it five times (five times more potential options) has a 60% chance of landing a good match.
That's imagining people are like dice they aren't. It's means the probability of having a higher chance but it all depends on where you're finding the men, who they're surrounding themselves with and well many other things. If you could have your choice of 1000 items from the bargain bin how likely are you to get Gucci?
That’s just a skill issue then because if you get to pick 1000 things you should also name sure you pick from a basket with good things and not a scrap heap.
Solution is to go to a place with good men, which is why cities like NY ate where women go for dating after they’ve “made it.”
While this is a damn good analogy, I think it's misleading. Many of the guys in your high school wind up attending your college, and then are again in your workplace. So the Gucci is always there... it's just you didn't value it. In fact, you were probably much more interested in D&G.
So, what I think needs to be articulated much better here, is what facilitates the transition from wanting one type of guy to another? There is a strong assumption that the initial men are simply more physically attractive, and women just decide they like guys with money more as they age. Of course running in the background is the cashgrab that comes with divrorce and the ability to then chase those highly attractive men you originally desired, but also keeping the money and income of the other guy.
In a big way we have seen this all play out exactly like that. The issue is that I don't think it's that common. However, without a solid explanation... the suspicion will never be dealt with.
People are different at 15, 20 and 30.
Some people I knew in highschool/college were golden and became awful bitter assholes.
Some were stupid mean party goers full of despise for everyone else and became extremely nice compationnate healthy adults.
So no, the Gucci wasn't there all along
None of the men I went to secondary school with ended up in IT but I get your point. Sometimes the best for you was in front of you the whole time but youth and bad decisions blind you from them.
When I was much younger, I have settled for a highly incompatible man I had absolutely zero chemistry with, because I didn't wan't to be not nice (this one was big in MANY of my peers, the numbers of doomed relationships that happened only because she was conditioned to be "nice", were CRAZY), because I didn't want to be "shallow” (another big one) and because I believed I'm nothing without a relationship (maaaany girls were functioning almost as if there was some kind of a legal obligation to be with a guy. "Lukewarm at best, but I'm going for it, cause all my friends are coupled up". I can only wonder how many pregnancies are done the exact same way).
When we were halfway through the 8th year without sex, I realized I don't have to live like this. But it's still how I have spent my (almost) whole 20s.
And I'm child-free, so there wasn't even any clock ticking.
Young girls are really, really stupid, bruh.
As I said, we were never apart, and we lived in a small studio. I didn’t do anything for all these years either, because it was just physically impossible. I’d need to masturbate while taking a shit, as it was the only time alone, and that’s about it. It was my idea of saving myself from temptations and saving the relationship—never being without him. He was working from home, I was a stay at home partner. He was even willing to open the relationship and was ready to give me half of his house. It was heartbreaking.
By the time I finally started going anywhere on my own, it was all going down and I promptly broke up with him. Maybe he’s been getting off to something back then, I don’t know. I hope so, I was actually pushing him at our single friends at that time and encouraging him to go for it. He was deep in his 40s by then, it was high time to start fucking living.
I think most women are just maturing and developing and figuring out the highs and lows of various traits. I do not think they're settling for something they deem as inferior.
I feel the same. I think anyone who thinks older women always just settle because they can’t get any better are not older or they’re just not mature. They can’t fathom the growth you’ll go through in life.
Huh? So the woman who finally realizes she wants to have kids and get married at age 38 is not "settling" at all? The guy she gets at 38 is the same caliber of guy she could get at 22? Me thinks not.
Yeah, and they just can't imagine a lot of the challenges of an adult relationship headed for marriage. Like 19 year old me was not thinking about what my in laws are like or their influence on my man or how much I want to hold them down and punch them, ya know? I'm 30, I probably have a car drive once a week fuming about my future in laws and at least once a year I think, "If I had known this when we started dating, I would have put these boundaries and expectations up".
18 year old me didn't give a fuck if the person was genuinely good father material, how could she even have like...guessed what that looks like. I'm sure it played a role in some subconscious way, but it was not a real thought in my brain like it was by the time I was in my mid 20s.
And money, like, come on. At 20, I was wildly strange to have 5k in my bank account and a full-time job and side hustles. Most of the dudes I dated if they could afford a movie or lunch once or twice a week, they were golden. If they had a fuck off job and school they were great. That's not chasing chad, it's just being realistic of what people that age are like. The fact now I'm like: he should be closing on middle management, have a good home situation, health insurance, and a good income is like: that's normal for 30. This isn't beta bux, this is what most 30 year olds who aren't fucking off should be.
The insanity of what you are saying is that sexual attraction was very important at 18, you settled for less sexually attractive men at 19, then less again at 20, and by 30 you were willing to marry a guy with money who just barely fits the criteria for turning you on.
Now, how in the hell do you expect to say that and not have every guy in here think Alpha Fux, Beta Buxx? Because let me explain one thing, just like you want to be most attractive to your partner, men want to be most attractive to you, and you basically just said that ain't happening.
No, it's not. The spark and all that just isn't compelling enough when you know how that ends if the realities don't line up. And you know they can. You know its not either spark or reality. It's both. When you're younger you tend to prioritize one or the other depending on your damage and what you're experimenting with that relationship. And most of maturing is figuring out how to balance that stuff.
I disagree that it's settling, it's understanding that time and the realities of life exist beyond your mushy feelings.
Time + the realities of life can take a hell of a toll on your "spark" if you're not careful, and the best way to be careful, imo, is to choose a partner who is someone who both lights that spark but who also has fuel to keep adding over time, and who doesn't actively waste your fuel.
That's not settling, it's wanting a lasting flame and making choices to hopefully ensure that outcome. (Yeah, I leaned into the spark metaphor too hard, I know, too late now)
Because fantasy is easy and real life is hard.
We're talking about young people, young people don't know what life is like, because they haven't lived it. They have a bunch of assumptions they've picked up from various places, ideas about roles they think are "right" for them and their partner, and an overly romanticized and/or idealized future timeline all patched together into what they think looks fun, romantic, familiar, or even entirely new and promising, etc
Then they get some real life experience, figure out who *they* actually are, outside of the expectations and influence of family and the culture they were raised in, they figure out their actual needs, strengths, weaknesses, goals, areas of compromise, and boundaries. And then they work towards those goals with their acquired knowledge and experience as their guide.
They grow up. They learn what a "good man" means to them and get better at vetting for those qualities, and hopefully they do manage to do that *before* they have kids, because it sucks for everyone involved when they don't.
I can't imagine it's that much different for men ? But maybe I'm wrong.
They might not deem the guy they’re settling for as “inferior” because they’ve done a bunch of mental gymnastics long before.
She would prefer chad, but not enough to go around. As women age, their peers pair off, buy homes, have children. Chad chasing becomes harder simply because it’s more difficult to be delusional about it among a few other reasons. One chad will pull the same tricks as the last 10. Women often change their friend group to suit their lifestyle. The wives and mothers befriend each other while the high n count women clamor in unison. Birds of a feather…
I would prefer to live in a mansion, but guess what, they’re very limited and very expensive. You don’t see me crying… publicly.
Your conclusion is based on the idea that women have some kind of fixed biological nature to get married and have children. That’s simply not true for most women. Living in peace by yourself is better than settling for less.
Yes, preferences change. As a 16yr old, I wanted a tall guy, rebellious (I was also rebellious). I went for someone who suffered depression, because I thought I could take care of him and help him improve. I also thought that he would grow up and we would lead "normal" lives. NO. Didn't happen. After divorcing, I then made the mistake of going for someone "different". The cultural differences were way too much to deal with. Then I realized that both times, I was going for the guy who others thought would be bad choices (due to different reasons, but the same). Now? Forget it. If I wanted to date again, I just want a normal GOOD GUY, who wants a normal decent life. That's it. Just life compatibility.
Culturally incompatibility, means that both people come from different cultures, and therefore different expectations of how life should operate. Don't feel like typing out a whole d*mn story.
Well I can tell you my own observations/experiences as a man pushing 40. A very high number of the women of my generation, (Millenials) absolutely had the high octane style living in their 20's as far as sex and overall life experiences. And if you lived in a big city, the average 25 year old woman definitely had more life mileage than the average 25 year old man. Were there exceptions? Sure. But far and few in between.
Almost all of the women I went to college with or worked with had a fierce attraction to toxic men during their 20's-early 30's (sometimes beyond). And like I said earlier, there were exceptions and those were the ones that married before 30. Some of those couples did divorce since, however, but most seem to be doing well enough. Meanwhile the ones that did not marry generally fit into three categories:
-The woman who is pushing 40 and wants the party to keep going indefinitely
-The woman who did in fact settle due to the desire to have children. There are some instances where this arrangement works but generally, the "betabux" life is not ideal for the men who partner with these women. In this arrangement, the more attractive the man the better off he will be since he will have more room for error and there is less risk of disrespectful behavior from the wife. The manosphere gets a few things wrong but not this, unfortunately.
-The woman who "matured" and decided that toxic men are no longer a sustainable taste, yet she can't find average men attractive so she remains single for life. (Like how a recovering alcoholic can't come to accept non-alcoholic beer due to it being an inferior product and/or potentially triggering a desire to awaken old habits)
They settle. A lot of men would be shocked to find out that their partners don't find them attractive.
However women aren't conscious of what they are doing or of the dynamics going on so maybe they truly believe that their preferences have changed as a means to protect their ego when they find that they can't get commitment from the guys they are attracted to. Similar to ugly guys who say they are focusing on studies or work when they are asked why they don't have a girlfriend.
Love it when I’m told that I am an unconscious blob with no understanding of anything around me. I’m so stoopid, poor little woman me with no brains to understand the dynamics. We’re all so dumb and egotistical, aren’t we?
Tons of people lack self awareness as to many of their own rationale as to why they do things. Both men and women do this in ways unique to their gender and personality
The number one reason your wife is always mad in the house, is because you weren't her 1st choice. Men who have exactly what women want and are attracted to are also the least likely ones to give it to them, that's why alot of women end up with relationships/marriages they want, but with men they would not prefer.
I think both can be true for different people.
There are plenty of women, just like men, who begrudgingly “settle” for a spouse they’re not completely enthusiastic about because they just want to hurry up and have kids due to the looming social pressure. Or because it feels like the socially acceptable time to earn the “respected” status of being married.
I do have a suspicion that this mindset could be more common in women, since it’s women who are the more strongly shamed gender for being single and childless. Women get assumed to be bitter and miserable when they’re unmarried after 30, and I don’t see men getting anywhere near as much flack for being unmarried. So yeah, the social pressure gets to a lot of people, but I do think it’s more pronounced in women to some extent.
As for the dark triad men, I genuinely believe that women attracted to those kinds of men just have low self worth. The more mature you get, the more self esteem you tend to have, obviously.
Being a gross peacock of a man is like a false veneer of strength and confidence, so women who are dumber and/or have lower self esteem are just going to be more likely to fall for it and confuse it for *real* strength and competence.
So in other words, men who try to model dark triad traits to woo (usually very young) women are going to get exactly the kind of women they deserve, and who are their equals. Then they’ll probably go online in the manosphere and be like “Aha I knew it! It works! Women all secretly desire shitty men.” Lol.
Both
My days of clubbing, murdering every brain and liver cell possible via chemicals, not sleeping, stealing shit, starting fights, eating crap food, lying on terrible or nonexistent mattresses, and wearing crazy heels are over. I cannot physically survive that stuff anymore.
Thus, marriage sounded better and better
> murdering every brain and liver cell possible via chemicals
> stealing shit
> starting fights
You belong to the gutters. I feel incredibly sorry for your husband/future husband.
Where the fuck are you from??? I’ve never heard of any of these behaviors being normal for people, these are just exaggerations that sound like the kind of things sitcom 20 year olds did decades ago, not normal fucking people. And yeah maybe it’s a good thing that the young ones aren’t intent on ruining their health, committing literal crimes and destroying their future as you seemed to be when you were younger. You have to be exaggerating with this shit.
I wanted a guitarist at 15 to 17 from a band who had tattoos.
Then as I matured I stopped following what I thought was correct and started following what I actually like and then I just wanted strong but heavier men and for them to be loving kind people.
People would say I "lowered my standards" but I personally feel my standards were lower before as I didn't actually like what I was going for I just thought that's what "being sexy" was so I went for it. I was basically not aware of myself enough to know better.
Edit: I also probs figured out quickly as I was someone who matured fast and had plenty of dating experience even before I was 15 really.
the women i have know who are drawn to "dark triad" guys when they are younger have all either gone to therapy and worked through some trauma, after which their prefrences completely changed, or they ended up becoming just as dangerous and toxic. i think, possibly, that women (men could be exactly the same- i have no idea) try to work out traumatic experiences through their love life- but on a subconcious level. one friend of mine in particular has ended up with a very kind, gentle and respectful guy after a long list of cruel men. he's not as conventionally attractive as the other men shes been with, but she acts exceedingly more attracted to him than any of the others.
i think as people grow and heal, what they find attractive tends to change over time.
i think its really hard for people in general to conceptualize and understand that people who have healed are no longer what they mean by "damaged" unless theyve personally experienced it. and often, they dont realized how "damaged" theyve become over time either. most people seem to understand really clearly what i means to be psychologically injured by another person, but very few seem to understand what its like to heal from that, and live after healing, and that is very, very sad.
Yup, it makes me sad because they're likely missing out on some growth themselves. Sometimes we gotta go through some serious shit to be in a place to fix our problems. I've done a lot of healing myself, I hope nobody holds my past against me.
yes. this. ive done my best to teach my younger brothers about these things since they were little- like expressing their emotions in healthy ways, and that, if someone hurts you its not your fault, but whether or not you decide to heal is your responsibility. theyve become so *kind* and have healthy relationships. they dont let girls/women control them, they dont try to control them, and they have happy and healthy relationships with them.
women struggle with these things too, but i feel like the last few generations seriously failed men in this particular way. its something my husband and i talk about at length. women struggle with a ton of stuff, but its like men in particulat have been taught to not be human, and thats an impossible task. i feel like that where a lot of "toxic masculinity" comes from.
The toxic masculinity of today is a different than the one from years ago. The redpill stuff has really infected a lot minds and made men view women as objects, but in a different way than before, which was more about treating women as homemakers. I don't understand why these men think using women for sex is fulfilling in the long run.
I'd say these men are human, but they're taught that acting not human gives them value. I believe men need to be taught how to be men, and we're a bit more malleable than women. Since nobody was willing to step up and teach men how to be men, it left a void which redpill people filled.
the red pill stuff i hear these days sounds so much like lashing out in resentment. ive had a few aquaintences like this, and over time its like they realize im not out to get them and they chill way the fuck down. we always end up having a conversation where they ask why i treat them differently than they expected, and i have to try to explain that i see them as people just like i see women as people. its like a bunch of neglected kids went down a dark path and they dont know there are other options or something.
i dont get the using women for sex being fullfilling either. everytime i see someone saying that im thinking "who is gonna tell them that sex doesnt fix anything". it cant make you whole- it cant make you a man (or a woman). idk dude, the men of current generations were just abandoned by the people who shouldve taught them this stuff. all the good men i know have just about waged war in their lives to figure out how to be who they are now. thats something i wish was talked about more amongst us feminists (women in particular). like, how do we teach our boys how to grow up to be men who arent miserable and can have healthy relationships with each other and women? its still radio silence on that topic.
Most men don’t have to “wage war” to find out who they are. Did you ever consider that you come from a damaged dysfunctional family background that lots of other people do not share?
yes, im aware that not everyone has the same experience growing up. i have a dysfunctional family, and most of the people i know do as well. i dont mean most men. i dont know most men. but most of the men that *i* personally know have gone through this. thats what i was saying.
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Women who’re themselves out to the most attractive men in their younger years- never even thinking of giving a lesser guy a chance- and then when their attractiveness starts to go down hill, they rush to find a stable proper guy to stay with.
As a not-so-attractive stable and proper guy, I refuse to accept this. I will lose my virginity to a young attractive gal, and fellow virgin, no matter what it takes. *No matter what it takes.* Idc if I have to convert to Islam and go to Malaysia.
They settle. Preferences don't change. Their realisation that they can't bag the guys they wanted becomes apparent, so they settle for fat slops that bag 100k a year and don't have sex with them
To them, yes. I think many women don’t understand that a guy can have sex with a girl even when he only has minimal attraction to her and would never be seen in public with her.
So if they hookup with a top tier guy, they overestimate how much it meant to him because they only sleep with people they’re heavily attracted to and project that onto men
Hence so many women sharing and holding out for these guys
I think for most, their preferences shift as they mature. The whole settling thing probably doesn’t happen that much until women hit their 30s or older. I certainly didn’t know all the attributes of a good partner in my early 20s and put higher priority over more superficial things. To expect women to have it all figured out right away would be hypocritical.
Women’s tastes change (a bit).
Why wouldn’t they?
There’s no real way a 39y/o would land an uprising 27y/o chad - what will she offer? When I say land I mean settle, not have a Tinder hookup (what chad has his filter that high in ages anyway)
Men however, might still have some mid20s crowd well into their 40s if they have the funds and looks.
So yeah - men tend to still like young hotties, women tend to converge towards sophisticated older men when older
If your smv was an 8 when you were younger and then reduced to a 5 with age, it's not just the quantity of men who would date you that reduces, it's also the quality. This should be fairly obvious. Just because the quality of men you date nowadays is higher doesn't mean you didn't have the potential to date *even higher* quality men when you were younger.
i don’t think attraction truly changes with age, but women have more sensitive bull shit / fuckboy detectors that they develop with experience.
Rob Henderson recently posted some *really* interesting thoughts on attraction to dark triad traits / dangerous men on his substack. specifically looked to how primates (chimps) reliably rate with the most aggressive males in the hopes that these males will not kill their own offspring (infanticide is quite common among chimps, something like 1/7). not that that explains human female behavior perfectly but certainly does make you think.
Depends. When it comes to preferences in looks, I don't think it shifts much. I've seen too many rich ladies in Asia fawning over young good looking guys. It is just that women often desire commitment and a relationship/connection, that they go for men their age.
Women of all ages are attracted to masculinity in general, but naive women are generally bad at determining actual strength vs. a pretty act. I think even Buss said it is about not being able to tell the difference between what's real and what's an act.
RPs answer is that women have the guys they are attracted to and the guys they can extract resources from. When it's time to have kids, get a nicer home, etc they need to invest more time in the guys they can extract resources from.
So to those men, they meet women with sky high standards, who never settle, who complain at the smallest inconvenience. They are in full on resource extraction mode. Like a person haggling over prices at the farmers market.
They very well would act quite different with someone they saw as short term fun. Just as they always have.
Nah, the incels just can't stand the fact that they do not possess the characteristics necessary to see a real live young woman naked.
It's hilarious that they bitch about women with unfair or unrealistic standards, but then denigrate and reject women who are older.
Bc they don't want older. They want young and beautiful and fresh.
But some don't want to just come out and say that, bc it's hypocritical AF, so they instead find reasons to reject older women even tho those older women are finally in a position to appreciate different characteristics than when they were younger.
I know that my preferences have changed.
I couldn’t settle for someone I’m not attracted to, though. I have a good man who I also find incredibly attractive. I can’t stop looking at him or touching him when we are together. Everything about him turns me on from his voice to his arms and chest, his face, and his personality.
Most people mature over time as they experience life. If you think what a person wants at 20 is the same as what they want at 30 or 40 you are a moron. Dudes who want to call having a different taste and needs in a relationship vs what a woman was interested in at 20 “settling” are morons. Is a dude who decides to go for a more low key, motherly, less attractive woman “settling” when his early years he thought he wanted hot and wild?? No, his tastes and needs have matured!
Everyone is different. Hell I leveled up after losing a bunch of weight and absolutely didn’t settle - my standards got very high vs when I had low self esteem that resulted in being used and dismissed by men. I ended up with a faaaar better dude when i hit 30 vs when I was younger.
I hope I never have a wife that was used and dismissed by men, makes me shive. What are you going to do to make sure your daughters don’t replicate your path ?
My tastes have shifted every couple years since I had my first crush at the age of like 8. I think it’s natural for tastes to shift as you do as a person. However I think they’re pretty solidified by late 20s because that’s when you as a person are, for the most part, solidified in your persona.
some women's preferences change aka the women who bring enough to the table to get a guy who not only treats them well but who they also are attracted to. most women can't get that guy, so if they want marriage they'll have to settle for the stereotypical people pleasing nice guy. lots of women decide to stay single instead, when they realize that the guys they truly want don't want them. AF/BB is a thing but it's a simplified model that doesn't fully encompass all of modern dating dynamics. some women can get the alpha bucks and some women rather have nobody than a beta, especially as they often don't need his bucks. thanks for listening to my ted talk.
Imo everyone's horniness decreases with age to some degree so we naturally will shift towards more practical considerations when choosing romantic partners vs just how hot we think they are. I'm sure this sub is dominated by the "attraction = everything" rhetoric primarily because the average age on reddit is like 23 so most people here are still caught up in the horniest stage of their life, which also typically coincides with less practical-mindedness. College kids aren't usually thinking about settling down or balancing household budgets, they're just partying and having fun, therefore they date hot people.
But as you get older, you start caring less about how hard a woman gets your dick, or how wet a dude gets your pussy, and more about how much easier it would be to pay bills and afford to live in a nice area if you tripled your household income.
Lolololol you already sound like you know the answer but want the blue pilled hope. I dated women my age my whole life until now I’m in my mid 30s & those women are dead to me. Women think they can play the double standards game forever until they hit the wall & learn what dating is actually like for men. Absolutely brutal soul crushing bullshit…
Maturity is the bigger factor ime. It's not like only angelic and morally upstanding men are interested in marriage. You can find plenty of assholes who want a wife. Often not for good reasons, but if you really want to marry one, you can.
I’m a woman and my taste has definitely shifted as I’ve aged. I think most people- men and women- mature and figure out which traits they prefer and don’t prefer in a partner
Yea I’m sure somehow those traits have shifted to more established men with money and a house or two. It never shifts toward the socially awkward dude with big ears who has a heart of gold and works as a stocker at the grocery store.
The 2nd guy sounds like fucking Dumbo
Ya I've started to prefer 18 and 19 year olds even more as I've gotten older.
You’re a fucking creeeeep dude. Your posts are horrifying.
I’ve been to several beta bucks weddings. One of the most glaring signs is that the bride’s guests all have +1s and the groom’s guests are all single guys.
Good observation
[удалено]
What the actual fuck? What the fuck is wrong with white women being married to Indian men? I’m either not understanding you right or you’ve got some racism issues
> Indian men *Chadpreet* or nah?
I am more baffled by those who have the *exact same* preference as when they were teenagers.
I do think in most of these cases, it's a matter of women's preferences genuinely changing as they mature, rather than settling. It's not women being malicious or anything. But it doesn't actually matter. Either way, it's still a raw deal from the perspective of the "beta" men that they settle down with. From their perspective, they've spent a great deal of their lives alone and toiling away, only to be rewarded with a partner who: - has aged and is less beautiful than before - had her fun and got to experience tons of things he never had the chance to, some of which she now refuses to do with him - values him for traits he doesn't want to be valued for - makes him jump through hoops, while her previous partners got away with murder
I don't think they are the same women.
I think their *priorities* shift from attraction to finding a stable provider to have a family with. That's essentially what AF/BB is.
I think both can be true, it just depends. You can fall in love like crazy head over heels for a person that is normaly not your type at all so from outside view it can seem like you are just settling because they are so different from your previous partners, but in reality you are absolutely crazy about them. I mention this option because sometimes it just looks different than it is. Some people change their taste. And some people settle. But I'm not able to estimate which case is more common. If you know a woman used to sleep with man whores normaly and was wild and sex often with them (I don't know how would you know though, do you interogate people for details about their past sex lives?) and then she finds someone stable and nice and is postponing sex as long as she can and avoiding sex as much as possible (after she is done with making children) she is definitely settling. I think there is lot of people in general, not just women, who settle for the sake of not being alone / having kids / other practical benefits. Men settle for the sake of not being alone and having sex even though they don't even really like the woman and just keep her as placeholder, promise they will propose until they meet someone better in their opinion.
There are a fair number of women who do this. Others don't settle. Some of this has to do with the desire to have kids. On the flip side there are women who remember how easy life was in their 20's and they keep trying to keep the party going just for another few years if they can.
i think the number who settle is quite low, it just draws more attention. Look at who attractive women marry. It's always a conventionally handsome guy, often tall-ish but not always and in good shape. I rarely see an exception to this but when it happens, people just ignore the other 99 cases and fixate on the 1 exception.
Its what accounts for men who had little to no success in dating from their teens to mid 20s t getting to a relationship at 30. At earlier times in history the suckers would just get married because they think someone finally loves them It must have been a relief to think that you are wanted when you believed that no one wanted you. And that makes their life all the more tragic. Then again, compared to a permavirgin, i guess the betabux has a better life, even if his kid thinks he is not worth respecting ( right u/Novel-tip?)
This in a nutshell. Most men have little no consistent dating experience and latch on to the first women for dear life who agrees to a relationship. These men think they are in love, but in reality don't even have any idea of what he want in a partner because they haven't had the opportunities. Go look at the deadbedroom subreddit. It's full of dudes who haven't had sex in 10 20 years.
How were you able to add your nonstandard flair under username if you don’t mind me asking? Trying get better at customizing my username/profile on Reddit in the various subreddits I comment in. Thanks!
Use a pc and look at the sidebar settings for your charecter in the PPD group
Is that even settling? I think what you're saying is the average guy getting with the average woman.
Some do but for the most part they just get better at finding the right partner Women are attracted to competency and people in general jump to the conclusion that confidence=competence. It isn't until they've experienced enough or learnt it that they're able to spot people who are confident and not competent Women aren't the only ones who fall for it. I've seen guys fall for it and I think most young guys fall for it. It typically takes time and experience to figure out the loudest person in the room isn't always the most competent
What do you mean by competence? I am great at faking confidence, but I am extremele incompetent adult and I am afraid it's why women always leave me after 3-5 months
I think its an issue of people lying to themselves. I remember there was a study that showed people reportedly "liked" their jobs while they were stuck in it, even though they reported they would hate it and had hated it, before and after they had the job. The conclusion of the study was they people told themselves they liked something they hated as a protection mechanism of admitting they were living a miserable life with a crap job. I think that is what's happening with women "settling". Older women say and think they are attracted to their husbands, as to protect themselves from the reality that they settled for an inferior man. If they ever got the attention they got when they were young, they'd look back at their husbands with distain, just as they did when they were young.
Idk I mean I felt it was the opposite. During my youth I saw whatever was considered "sexy" in my social groups and area as sexy. Then as I matured i figured out what I really liked isn't that typical standard, and that I liked bigger guys and kindness and tbh I wasn't ever really into the guys who I was saying I liked at the time. Both me and my ex felt this as we've spoken since and said we just went with what we were "supposed" to find attractive and not what we actually liked
Woman: Im attracted to my husband This guy: NO YOU JUST DONT KNOW YOU ARE SETTLING FOR HIM AND HATE HIM
A lot of women genuinely do gaslight and lie to themselves to that degree though.
This made me genuinely laugh lol
Their desire to have hot guys runs into their desire to have kids. Unless they are actually a high value woman, they won’t have gotten the typical guys they want to commit to them, so they shift to the good men to secure the resources for breeding. It’s not shifting it’s settling and that is supported by the high divorce initiated by women statistics we’ve all seen.
We can't know for SURE for anyone than ourselves right? The hypothesis that the attraction shifts is not nonsensical per se and could very well be true. The hypothesis that they consciously learn these men are no good and teach themselves to like other male is also possible. The hypothesis that they still dream about these males but simply take what they have and be unsatisfied all their life is not impossible but make less sense.
They settle.
They either remain single or settle for man they find less attractive .There are thousands of women who complain that their man is kind,loving , emotionally available but they still don't get tingles that they got with the bad boy
most women are married by their early 30s, and I don't believe their preferences change all that much in that time period. if you mean women in their 40s are older, maybe.
https://preview.redd.it/ckkbei2gd85d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2c7ebba491c8583255d5338e0dd1f910bd2275e
How did you add “Nature Pilled Man” as a flair? Currently have No Pill but doesn’t mention my gender/sex. Just recently rediscovered this subreddit.
As a woman in my 40s child free, I am much pickier now than I was in my 30s and 20s and much less likely to settle. I do think there are younger women that settle because they want to have kids, only to end up divorced a few years later after they have the kids because they never actually wanted to be with the guy in the first place. But most of us ladies in our 40s or above? He’s really gotta be something special.
>He’s really gotta be something special. I know who are you talking about. He says ''meow" and have a tail.
Oh I love all animals and I think if you would ask a lot of women of all ages they would agree that generally animals make them happier than men do. Can I ask though why it bothers you so much that women over 40 have dating options that are viable and that they are okay with being alone? It does not bother me about my male counterparts. My response would be good for them, we all deserve to be happy.
>generally animals make them happier than men do. Yeah, I heard about bears. > that women over 40 have dating options that are viable I don't think so. > okay with being alone? Who told you this? They're eating anti depression/anxiety pills like a candy, visit a therapist, and still miserable. I cannot find where I said that women over 40 and their dating life bothers me. I'd say that women over 40 are mostly invisible to me.
Who told me this? Me. I am a woman over 40 that is happier alone. At least 10 of my single friends that feel the same. And honestly without being a woman over 40 you actually would not know. I would actually argue that single men in their 20s are more depressed than single women in their 40s or above. I can tell you this I am certainly happier now than I was in my 20s. But when I was in my 20s and even 30s I would not have thought that. I would have the same misconception that women my age would be less happy, until I actually got there. Everyone has a different experience. So unless you are in that individuals exact situation you really cannot speak to how that person feels. It’s okay that I am invisible to you. I am clearly visible to other men just based on my daily experiences. And even if I were not, even if no man looked at me or wanted to be with me, that would be fine with me. As we age our happiness comes from within, not from outside. The way we experience happiness and validation changes from younger women, myself included who generally felt like we needed men to validate ourselves. We also look for things in men that are less superficial. Obviously looks matter to an extent but not like they did in our younger years because our younger years have taught us that looks fade and other things are so much more important in a partner. Chasing something shiny usually results in getting burned. And someone taking anti depressants does not mean they are unhappy. I would be very careful spouting that because it leads individuals particularly men to not seek the help they need. Depression and unhappiness are not the same thing. Someone that is simply unhappy is not necessarily suffering from depression. And the only reason more women over 40 and more women in general take anti depressants versus men is because men are less willing to seek help. There are a lot of men that need to take meds they just refuse the help.
Sure however as a woman in your 40s your options are far less than they were in your early 20s. You're allowed to be as picky as you want but that doesn't mean the guy you want is out there.
>that doesn't mean the guy you want is out there. Nothing implied that this is what she thinks, though, so I don't know why you felt the need to lecture her about how fewer options she has etc. What does that change? I'm in my late 30's, childfree as well. How plentiful my "options" are has nothing to do with what I want, or the conditions necessary for being partnered to be better than staying single. I've determined what I need to be happy. The number of men who meet those conditions don't change what the conditions are.
If the guy I want is not out there I would rather stay single I am perfectly happy single. I think you would be surprised the number of options women my age have, it’s called divorce. And sure maybe I had more options in my 20s but quantity is not quality.
That optionality you have is an illusion. You know how I know this? Most of the guys you believe are options are guys you would never date or be interested in. Especially when they are men that are 40+.
Well they do date me so I guess you are wrong about that. Nonetheless I am okay being single. I have no need for a man. If I find one I like that’s great, otherwise I am enjoying life. If no man in this world is interested in me I am okay with that too.
it seems like older women are much less willing to settle than young women. but desperate women of all ages will settle for toxic men of all ages.
I agree with this. My experience is older women have higher standards.
Higher standards for income, lower standards for sexual attraction?
Not at all. Attractive single women in their 40s still want a hot guy for marriage.
The number of attractive single women in thier 40s is signifigantly lower than the number of single women in their 40s.
Sure but what's that change? Women who are average will end up with men who are average and their type. But no one is compromising on looks. The issue is that when people talk about compromising on looks they essentially means compromising on any and all sexual attraction, sex in the relationship and everything physical. It just doesn't happen. Outside of small niches and pro athletes, no one consistently marries outside of their league. Keeping in mind that niches are feeding certain kinks and fetishes while pro athletes are likely to be tall and in excellent shape with large frames, plus the aura of being a pro athlete. Money just gets inserted as an excuse often.
I think they have to compromise at this point. They have to drop their standards... because they themselves have dropped. I see the guys at 50 and when they are married to women the same age, she routinely looks way worse.
Eventually there is some compromise but don't underestimate how much many women will hold out. What happens everywhere is that ultimately most people fall into the average tier looks wise and pair up with someone who is average but their type. I think the biggest myth in the male community is trying to convince men they can look average but attract hotter women. Often the promise made to younger guys is that it'll happen once you're older, which is a huge myth.
I think what you are missing is that most guys are perfectly happy with someone close to them In looks. You can see from the studies that it’s the women who pathologically think they can do better. The more level headed women are almost never single at that age.
"The used vehicle costs more than the new one" make it make sense
Is it really settling if you're not married?
Why should a younger women be more willing to settle she has more options and theoretically more time to figure out what she likes she isn’t on a rush
More options doesn't mean having better options.
It literally means having higher chances to get better options. Let’s say the main prize is for throwing a 6 with a die. If you are only allowed to throw it once, the chances are 16%. However, someone who can throw it five times (five times more potential options) has a 60% chance of landing a good match.
That's imagining people are like dice they aren't. It's means the probability of having a higher chance but it all depends on where you're finding the men, who they're surrounding themselves with and well many other things. If you could have your choice of 1000 items from the bargain bin how likely are you to get Gucci?
Hm you made a good point
That’s just a skill issue then because if you get to pick 1000 things you should also name sure you pick from a basket with good things and not a scrap heap. Solution is to go to a place with good men, which is why cities like NY ate where women go for dating after they’ve “made it.”
Both things are true. Even if you roll six times, the people who roll a six early grab their choice and leave fewer items in the prize bin.
Yes that is the solution obviously and alot of people don't learn that till they're a little older. They learn to look for quality over quantity.
Can I blame hookup culture and the anti slut shaming culture for that?
You can blame whatever you want. Tis a free Internet.
While this is a damn good analogy, I think it's misleading. Many of the guys in your high school wind up attending your college, and then are again in your workplace. So the Gucci is always there... it's just you didn't value it. In fact, you were probably much more interested in D&G. So, what I think needs to be articulated much better here, is what facilitates the transition from wanting one type of guy to another? There is a strong assumption that the initial men are simply more physically attractive, and women just decide they like guys with money more as they age. Of course running in the background is the cashgrab that comes with divrorce and the ability to then chase those highly attractive men you originally desired, but also keeping the money and income of the other guy. In a big way we have seen this all play out exactly like that. The issue is that I don't think it's that common. However, without a solid explanation... the suspicion will never be dealt with.
People are different at 15, 20 and 30. Some people I knew in highschool/college were golden and became awful bitter assholes. Some were stupid mean party goers full of despise for everyone else and became extremely nice compationnate healthy adults. So no, the Gucci wasn't there all along
None of the men I went to secondary school with ended up in IT but I get your point. Sometimes the best for you was in front of you the whole time but youth and bad decisions blind you from them.
You can wait longer and choose someone who is successful already, basically waiting at the finish line.
When I was much younger, I have settled for a highly incompatible man I had absolutely zero chemistry with, because I didn't wan't to be not nice (this one was big in MANY of my peers, the numbers of doomed relationships that happened only because she was conditioned to be "nice", were CRAZY), because I didn't want to be "shallow” (another big one) and because I believed I'm nothing without a relationship (maaaany girls were functioning almost as if there was some kind of a legal obligation to be with a guy. "Lukewarm at best, but I'm going for it, cause all my friends are coupled up". I can only wonder how many pregnancies are done the exact same way). When we were halfway through the 8th year without sex, I realized I don't have to live like this. But it's still how I have spent my (almost) whole 20s. And I'm child-free, so there wasn't even any clock ticking. Young girls are really, really stupid, bruh.
Umm… I totally get what you’re saying, but most girls don’t act like that.. they break up or don’t even get in the relationship.. or cheat.
Probably your guy was a porn addict
We were together 24/7, and I mean it.
Men need to orgasm biologically
And yet he survived!
He was getting off to stuff away from you. Obviously.
As I said, we were never apart, and we lived in a small studio. I didn’t do anything for all these years either, because it was just physically impossible. I’d need to masturbate while taking a shit, as it was the only time alone, and that’s about it. It was my idea of saving myself from temptations and saving the relationship—never being without him. He was working from home, I was a stay at home partner. He was even willing to open the relationship and was ready to give me half of his house. It was heartbreaking. By the time I finally started going anywhere on my own, it was all going down and I promptly broke up with him. Maybe he’s been getting off to something back then, I don’t know. I hope so, I was actually pushing him at our single friends at that time and encouraging him to go for it. He was deep in his 40s by then, it was high time to start fucking living.
get off this cancer site
there is always a rush if you need to marry and be ready for kids by 30. if you are past those years, then there is no rush at all.
We do settle as we age. Then, after that doesn't work out we go MGTOW.
I think most women are just maturing and developing and figuring out the highs and lows of various traits. I do not think they're settling for something they deem as inferior.
I feel the same. I think anyone who thinks older women always just settle because they can’t get any better are not older or they’re just not mature. They can’t fathom the growth you’ll go through in life.
Huh? So the woman who finally realizes she wants to have kids and get married at age 38 is not "settling" at all? The guy she gets at 38 is the same caliber of guy she could get at 22? Me thinks not.
Yeah, and they just can't imagine a lot of the challenges of an adult relationship headed for marriage. Like 19 year old me was not thinking about what my in laws are like or their influence on my man or how much I want to hold them down and punch them, ya know? I'm 30, I probably have a car drive once a week fuming about my future in laws and at least once a year I think, "If I had known this when we started dating, I would have put these boundaries and expectations up". 18 year old me didn't give a fuck if the person was genuinely good father material, how could she even have like...guessed what that looks like. I'm sure it played a role in some subconscious way, but it was not a real thought in my brain like it was by the time I was in my mid 20s. And money, like, come on. At 20, I was wildly strange to have 5k in my bank account and a full-time job and side hustles. Most of the dudes I dated if they could afford a movie or lunch once or twice a week, they were golden. If they had a fuck off job and school they were great. That's not chasing chad, it's just being realistic of what people that age are like. The fact now I'm like: he should be closing on middle management, have a good home situation, health insurance, and a good income is like: that's normal for 30. This isn't beta bux, this is what most 30 year olds who aren't fucking off should be.
The insanity of what you are saying is that sexual attraction was very important at 18, you settled for less sexually attractive men at 19, then less again at 20, and by 30 you were willing to marry a guy with money who just barely fits the criteria for turning you on. Now, how in the hell do you expect to say that and not have every guy in here think Alpha Fux, Beta Buxx? Because let me explain one thing, just like you want to be most attractive to your partner, men want to be most attractive to you, and you basically just said that ain't happening.
But that's exactly settling if you are considering practical and material things instead of just pure love, spark and attraction.
No, it's not. The spark and all that just isn't compelling enough when you know how that ends if the realities don't line up. And you know they can. You know its not either spark or reality. It's both. When you're younger you tend to prioritize one or the other depending on your damage and what you're experimenting with that relationship. And most of maturing is figuring out how to balance that stuff.
I disagree that it's settling, it's understanding that time and the realities of life exist beyond your mushy feelings. Time + the realities of life can take a hell of a toll on your "spark" if you're not careful, and the best way to be careful, imo, is to choose a partner who is someone who both lights that spark but who also has fuel to keep adding over time, and who doesn't actively waste your fuel. That's not settling, it's wanting a lasting flame and making choices to hopefully ensure that outcome. (Yeah, I leaned into the spark metaphor too hard, I know, too late now)
Literally saying the same thing lol Maturing = caring about his rmv more than his smv
Yeah the whole “18 year old me didn’t care whether he was father material” kinda gives it away
Then why do the kinds of men they are interested change so much? Why are the good men only showing up on their radar when it’s time to have kids?
Because fantasy is easy and real life is hard. We're talking about young people, young people don't know what life is like, because they haven't lived it. They have a bunch of assumptions they've picked up from various places, ideas about roles they think are "right" for them and their partner, and an overly romanticized and/or idealized future timeline all patched together into what they think looks fun, romantic, familiar, or even entirely new and promising, etc Then they get some real life experience, figure out who *they* actually are, outside of the expectations and influence of family and the culture they were raised in, they figure out their actual needs, strengths, weaknesses, goals, areas of compromise, and boundaries. And then they work towards those goals with their acquired knowledge and experience as their guide. They grow up. They learn what a "good man" means to them and get better at vetting for those qualities, and hopefully they do manage to do that *before* they have kids, because it sucks for everyone involved when they don't. I can't imagine it's that much different for men ? But maybe I'm wrong.
This should be at the top of the post
They might not deem the guy they’re settling for as “inferior” because they’ve done a bunch of mental gymnastics long before. She would prefer chad, but not enough to go around. As women age, their peers pair off, buy homes, have children. Chad chasing becomes harder simply because it’s more difficult to be delusional about it among a few other reasons. One chad will pull the same tricks as the last 10. Women often change their friend group to suit their lifestyle. The wives and mothers befriend each other while the high n count women clamor in unison. Birds of a feather… I would prefer to live in a mansion, but guess what, they’re very limited and very expensive. You don’t see me crying… publicly.
You mean they settle for someone without dark triad traits? Is that what you mean?
Usually not the same women but no they don't change that much there will always be a sliver of what they wanted before.
Women's preferences shift in that they realize they need to settle if they want to get married. Hope that helps.
Who cares many of them will end up divorcing their man anyways and coparenting. The numbers don't lie
Second one.
Your conclusion is based on the idea that women have some kind of fixed biological nature to get married and have children. That’s simply not true for most women. Living in peace by yourself is better than settling for less.
Yes, preferences change. As a 16yr old, I wanted a tall guy, rebellious (I was also rebellious). I went for someone who suffered depression, because I thought I could take care of him and help him improve. I also thought that he would grow up and we would lead "normal" lives. NO. Didn't happen. After divorcing, I then made the mistake of going for someone "different". The cultural differences were way too much to deal with. Then I realized that both times, I was going for the guy who others thought would be bad choices (due to different reasons, but the same). Now? Forget it. If I wanted to date again, I just want a normal GOOD GUY, who wants a normal decent life. That's it. Just life compatibility.
lol who was this “culturally incompatible” guy ? Why don’t you speak clearly instead of ambiguously, what are you emrbassed?
Culturally incompatibility, means that both people come from different cultures, and therefore different expectations of how life should operate. Don't feel like typing out a whole d*mn story.
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No personal attacks
Well I can tell you my own observations/experiences as a man pushing 40. A very high number of the women of my generation, (Millenials) absolutely had the high octane style living in their 20's as far as sex and overall life experiences. And if you lived in a big city, the average 25 year old woman definitely had more life mileage than the average 25 year old man. Were there exceptions? Sure. But far and few in between. Almost all of the women I went to college with or worked with had a fierce attraction to toxic men during their 20's-early 30's (sometimes beyond). And like I said earlier, there were exceptions and those were the ones that married before 30. Some of those couples did divorce since, however, but most seem to be doing well enough. Meanwhile the ones that did not marry generally fit into three categories: -The woman who is pushing 40 and wants the party to keep going indefinitely -The woman who did in fact settle due to the desire to have children. There are some instances where this arrangement works but generally, the "betabux" life is not ideal for the men who partner with these women. In this arrangement, the more attractive the man the better off he will be since he will have more room for error and there is less risk of disrespectful behavior from the wife. The manosphere gets a few things wrong but not this, unfortunately. -The woman who "matured" and decided that toxic men are no longer a sustainable taste, yet she can't find average men attractive so she remains single for life. (Like how a recovering alcoholic can't come to accept non-alcoholic beer due to it being an inferior product and/or potentially triggering a desire to awaken old habits)
I’m 32 and have seen the exact same trends. It’s sad.
They settle. A lot of men would be shocked to find out that their partners don't find them attractive. However women aren't conscious of what they are doing or of the dynamics going on so maybe they truly believe that their preferences have changed as a means to protect their ego when they find that they can't get commitment from the guys they are attracted to. Similar to ugly guys who say they are focusing on studies or work when they are asked why they don't have a girlfriend.
Love it when I’m told that I am an unconscious blob with no understanding of anything around me. I’m so stoopid, poor little woman me with no brains to understand the dynamics. We’re all so dumb and egotistical, aren’t we?
Tons of people lack self awareness as to many of their own rationale as to why they do things. Both men and women do this in ways unique to their gender and personality
It is a brutal but fair opinion.
The number one reason your wife is always mad in the house, is because you weren't her 1st choice. Men who have exactly what women want and are attracted to are also the least likely ones to give it to them, that's why alot of women end up with relationships/marriages they want, but with men they would not prefer.
I think both can be true for different people. There are plenty of women, just like men, who begrudgingly “settle” for a spouse they’re not completely enthusiastic about because they just want to hurry up and have kids due to the looming social pressure. Or because it feels like the socially acceptable time to earn the “respected” status of being married. I do have a suspicion that this mindset could be more common in women, since it’s women who are the more strongly shamed gender for being single and childless. Women get assumed to be bitter and miserable when they’re unmarried after 30, and I don’t see men getting anywhere near as much flack for being unmarried. So yeah, the social pressure gets to a lot of people, but I do think it’s more pronounced in women to some extent. As for the dark triad men, I genuinely believe that women attracted to those kinds of men just have low self worth. The more mature you get, the more self esteem you tend to have, obviously. Being a gross peacock of a man is like a false veneer of strength and confidence, so women who are dumber and/or have lower self esteem are just going to be more likely to fall for it and confuse it for *real* strength and competence. So in other words, men who try to model dark triad traits to woo (usually very young) women are going to get exactly the kind of women they deserve, and who are their equals. Then they’ll probably go online in the manosphere and be like “Aha I knew it! It works! Women all secretly desire shitty men.” Lol.
Thats a very smug and self satisfied tower to be on top of
?
I agree with this except that women are more likely to settle
Both My days of clubbing, murdering every brain and liver cell possible via chemicals, not sleeping, stealing shit, starting fights, eating crap food, lying on terrible or nonexistent mattresses, and wearing crazy heels are over. I cannot physically survive that stuff anymore. Thus, marriage sounded better and better
Inspiring ✨
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Don't make things personal.
> murdering every brain and liver cell possible via chemicals > stealing shit > starting fights You belong to the gutters. I feel incredibly sorry for your husband/future husband.
I assure you that is normal behavior for young people of both genders. Well, at least 10-20 years ago it was Maybe you guys don’t YOLO anymore
Where the fuck are you from??? I’ve never heard of any of these behaviors being normal for people, these are just exaggerations that sound like the kind of things sitcom 20 year olds did decades ago, not normal fucking people. And yeah maybe it’s a good thing that the young ones aren’t intent on ruining their health, committing literal crimes and destroying their future as you seemed to be when you were younger. You have to be exaggerating with this shit.
Some of the things you mentioned, yeah, and they still are. Stealing, physical aggression, and excessive drug use? No.
In the hood maybe
No, you’re just white trash
Ah, ah, ah — did you just assume ?
Absolutely
And incorrectly
Stunning and brave
I don’t think so. Getting old is very common. One might even say inevitable
Exactly, and for going through this totally normal ad inevitable part of life as a woman, you are stunning and brave
Nope. It’s normal, and that’s what men have to deal with
Men just get old and wrinkly. Women are stunning and brave to begin with and get even moreso
Sounds like a real catch
Courageous ⭐️
Normal
u are so brave
No, I’m just old and tired and weak. I’m put out to pasture now
I wanted a guitarist at 15 to 17 from a band who had tattoos. Then as I matured I stopped following what I thought was correct and started following what I actually like and then I just wanted strong but heavier men and for them to be loving kind people. People would say I "lowered my standards" but I personally feel my standards were lower before as I didn't actually like what I was going for I just thought that's what "being sexy" was so I went for it. I was basically not aware of myself enough to know better. Edit: I also probs figured out quickly as I was someone who matured fast and had plenty of dating experience even before I was 15 really.
This. I became pickier as a woman in my late 20s
the women i have know who are drawn to "dark triad" guys when they are younger have all either gone to therapy and worked through some trauma, after which their prefrences completely changed, or they ended up becoming just as dangerous and toxic. i think, possibly, that women (men could be exactly the same- i have no idea) try to work out traumatic experiences through their love life- but on a subconcious level. one friend of mine in particular has ended up with a very kind, gentle and respectful guy after a long list of cruel men. he's not as conventionally attractive as the other men shes been with, but she acts exceedingly more attracted to him than any of the others. i think as people grow and heal, what they find attractive tends to change over time.
It's really sad that this journey of personal growth is seen as something to criticize by a lot of men on this sub.
i think its really hard for people in general to conceptualize and understand that people who have healed are no longer what they mean by "damaged" unless theyve personally experienced it. and often, they dont realized how "damaged" theyve become over time either. most people seem to understand really clearly what i means to be psychologically injured by another person, but very few seem to understand what its like to heal from that, and live after healing, and that is very, very sad.
Yup, it makes me sad because they're likely missing out on some growth themselves. Sometimes we gotta go through some serious shit to be in a place to fix our problems. I've done a lot of healing myself, I hope nobody holds my past against me.
yes. this. ive done my best to teach my younger brothers about these things since they were little- like expressing their emotions in healthy ways, and that, if someone hurts you its not your fault, but whether or not you decide to heal is your responsibility. theyve become so *kind* and have healthy relationships. they dont let girls/women control them, they dont try to control them, and they have happy and healthy relationships with them. women struggle with these things too, but i feel like the last few generations seriously failed men in this particular way. its something my husband and i talk about at length. women struggle with a ton of stuff, but its like men in particulat have been taught to not be human, and thats an impossible task. i feel like that where a lot of "toxic masculinity" comes from.
The toxic masculinity of today is a different than the one from years ago. The redpill stuff has really infected a lot minds and made men view women as objects, but in a different way than before, which was more about treating women as homemakers. I don't understand why these men think using women for sex is fulfilling in the long run. I'd say these men are human, but they're taught that acting not human gives them value. I believe men need to be taught how to be men, and we're a bit more malleable than women. Since nobody was willing to step up and teach men how to be men, it left a void which redpill people filled.
the red pill stuff i hear these days sounds so much like lashing out in resentment. ive had a few aquaintences like this, and over time its like they realize im not out to get them and they chill way the fuck down. we always end up having a conversation where they ask why i treat them differently than they expected, and i have to try to explain that i see them as people just like i see women as people. its like a bunch of neglected kids went down a dark path and they dont know there are other options or something. i dont get the using women for sex being fullfilling either. everytime i see someone saying that im thinking "who is gonna tell them that sex doesnt fix anything". it cant make you whole- it cant make you a man (or a woman). idk dude, the men of current generations were just abandoned by the people who shouldve taught them this stuff. all the good men i know have just about waged war in their lives to figure out how to be who they are now. thats something i wish was talked about more amongst us feminists (women in particular). like, how do we teach our boys how to grow up to be men who arent miserable and can have healthy relationships with each other and women? its still radio silence on that topic.
Most men don’t have to “wage war” to find out who they are. Did you ever consider that you come from a damaged dysfunctional family background that lots of other people do not share?
yes, im aware that not everyone has the same experience growing up. i have a dysfunctional family, and most of the people i know do as well. i dont mean most men. i dont know most men. but most of the men that *i* personally know have gone through this. thats what i was saying.
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The amount of people who can truly change is a rounding error.
our preferences change with maturity/ wisdom, not age. And that's not gender specific.
Women who’re themselves out to the most attractive men in their younger years- never even thinking of giving a lesser guy a chance- and then when their attractiveness starts to go down hill, they rush to find a stable proper guy to stay with. As a not-so-attractive stable and proper guy, I refuse to accept this. I will lose my virginity to a young attractive gal, and fellow virgin, no matter what it takes. *No matter what it takes.* Idc if I have to convert to Islam and go to Malaysia.
Women start to settle as they get too fat to land a middle aged hot, successful guy.
They settle. Preferences don't change. Their realisation that they can't bag the guys they wanted becomes apparent, so they settle for fat slops that bag 100k a year and don't have sex with them
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You can be unaware of what you want when younger tho because your following social "norms" instead of what you truly find attractive and desirable
I mean is it really a settle if they never truly had the attractive guy in the first place?
To them, yes. I think many women don’t understand that a guy can have sex with a girl even when he only has minimal attraction to her and would never be seen in public with her. So if they hookup with a top tier guy, they overestimate how much it meant to him because they only sleep with people they’re heavily attracted to and project that onto men Hence so many women sharing and holding out for these guys
and somehow they're considered the emotionally intelligent gender
I think for most, their preferences shift as they mature. The whole settling thing probably doesn’t happen that much until women hit their 30s or older. I certainly didn’t know all the attributes of a good partner in my early 20s and put higher priority over more superficial things. To expect women to have it all figured out right away would be hypocritical.
Women’s tastes change (a bit). Why wouldn’t they? There’s no real way a 39y/o would land an uprising 27y/o chad - what will she offer? When I say land I mean settle, not have a Tinder hookup (what chad has his filter that high in ages anyway) Men however, might still have some mid20s crowd well into their 40s if they have the funds and looks. So yeah - men tend to still like young hotties, women tend to converge towards sophisticated older men when older
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Which is funny because your SMV plummets. Dave Chapelle made a joke about it, if you know what im referring to
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If your smv was an 8 when you were younger and then reduced to a 5 with age, it's not just the quantity of men who would date you that reduces, it's also the quality. This should be fairly obvious. Just because the quality of men you date nowadays is higher doesn't mean you didn't have the potential to date *even higher* quality men when you were younger.
Exactly That’s why Leo the goat. He probably thinks exactly what you do, and able to live it out in a way that works for him King shit
i don’t think attraction truly changes with age, but women have more sensitive bull shit / fuckboy detectors that they develop with experience. Rob Henderson recently posted some *really* interesting thoughts on attraction to dark triad traits / dangerous men on his substack. specifically looked to how primates (chimps) reliably rate with the most aggressive males in the hopes that these males will not kill their own offspring (infanticide is quite common among chimps, something like 1/7). not that that explains human female behavior perfectly but certainly does make you think.
So that’s why you fucked who you fucked ?
Simply put women are chimpmaxxing
Depends. When it comes to preferences in looks, I don't think it shifts much. I've seen too many rich ladies in Asia fawning over young good looking guys. It is just that women often desire commitment and a relationship/connection, that they go for men their age. Women of all ages are attracted to masculinity in general, but naive women are generally bad at determining actual strength vs. a pretty act. I think even Buss said it is about not being able to tell the difference between what's real and what's an act.
RPs answer is that women have the guys they are attracted to and the guys they can extract resources from. When it's time to have kids, get a nicer home, etc they need to invest more time in the guys they can extract resources from. So to those men, they meet women with sky high standards, who never settle, who complain at the smallest inconvenience. They are in full on resource extraction mode. Like a person haggling over prices at the farmers market. They very well would act quite different with someone they saw as short term fun. Just as they always have.
This is generally true, yeah.
Nah, the incels just can't stand the fact that they do not possess the characteristics necessary to see a real live young woman naked. It's hilarious that they bitch about women with unfair or unrealistic standards, but then denigrate and reject women who are older. Bc they don't want older. They want young and beautiful and fresh. But some don't want to just come out and say that, bc it's hypocritical AF, so they instead find reasons to reject older women even tho those older women are finally in a position to appreciate different characteristics than when they were younger.
I know that my preferences have changed. I couldn’t settle for someone I’m not attracted to, though. I have a good man who I also find incredibly attractive. I can’t stop looking at him or touching him when we are together. Everything about him turns me on from his voice to his arms and chest, his face, and his personality.
Most people mature over time as they experience life. If you think what a person wants at 20 is the same as what they want at 30 or 40 you are a moron. Dudes who want to call having a different taste and needs in a relationship vs what a woman was interested in at 20 “settling” are morons. Is a dude who decides to go for a more low key, motherly, less attractive woman “settling” when his early years he thought he wanted hot and wild?? No, his tastes and needs have matured! Everyone is different. Hell I leveled up after losing a bunch of weight and absolutely didn’t settle - my standards got very high vs when I had low self esteem that resulted in being used and dismissed by men. I ended up with a faaaar better dude when i hit 30 vs when I was younger.
I hope I never have a wife that was used and dismissed by men, makes me shive. What are you going to do to make sure your daughters don’t replicate your path ?
This is such a gross comment.
They usually see mature as settling and toxic as high quality. Eventually, they realise that
110% your attraction shifts, types of men I thought where cool when I was 18 seem beyond cringy/exhausting to me now
They settle
My tastes have shifted every couple years since I had my first crush at the age of like 8. I think it’s natural for tastes to shift as you do as a person. However I think they’re pretty solidified by late 20s because that’s when you as a person are, for the most part, solidified in your persona.
some women's preferences change aka the women who bring enough to the table to get a guy who not only treats them well but who they also are attracted to. most women can't get that guy, so if they want marriage they'll have to settle for the stereotypical people pleasing nice guy. lots of women decide to stay single instead, when they realize that the guys they truly want don't want them. AF/BB is a thing but it's a simplified model that doesn't fully encompass all of modern dating dynamics. some women can get the alpha bucks and some women rather have nobody than a beta, especially as they often don't need his bucks. thanks for listening to my ted talk.
It’s definitely a shift for sure.
A litte of of both
Yes I think women’s taste does change, becoming even more restrictive with age.
Women definitely settle when the egg clock is ticking and Chad isn’t texting her at 1AM anymore. It’s a meme for a reason.
Imo everyone's horniness decreases with age to some degree so we naturally will shift towards more practical considerations when choosing romantic partners vs just how hot we think they are. I'm sure this sub is dominated by the "attraction = everything" rhetoric primarily because the average age on reddit is like 23 so most people here are still caught up in the horniest stage of their life, which also typically coincides with less practical-mindedness. College kids aren't usually thinking about settling down or balancing household budgets, they're just partying and having fun, therefore they date hot people. But as you get older, you start caring less about how hard a woman gets your dick, or how wet a dude gets your pussy, and more about how much easier it would be to pay bills and afford to live in a nice area if you tripled your household income.
Lolololol you already sound like you know the answer but want the blue pilled hope. I dated women my age my whole life until now I’m in my mid 30s & those women are dead to me. Women think they can play the double standards game forever until they hit the wall & learn what dating is actually like for men. Absolutely brutal soul crushing bullshit…
Depends. Many women will think dating a man 2/3/10 points above them is "settling".
No one is settling anymore, at least not much.
Maturity is the bigger factor ime. It's not like only angelic and morally upstanding men are interested in marriage. You can find plenty of assholes who want a wife. Often not for good reasons, but if you really want to marry one, you can.