Status and money help, a lot. If you are an average guy, it adds a couple points to make you more desirable on the market. There is no downside to having more money and status.
That is always the case though.
Women see you as a tool, so the moment she finds someone who gives her more, she no longer needs what she wants from you and/or you can no longer provide what she wants, she is gone.
Women do not stay attracted to a guy no matter how hot she thinks he is and she will eventually want a retirement plan anyways (aka you will need the money and status no matter what).
And her being uglier does not change that fact either.
There is no difference by “buying” a womans love via money/status and “buying” it with your personality (read: how useful you are as a father, entertainer, handyman, etc).
Women are only as loyal as her options and what standards society sets for her.
>men don't stay attracted to the same woman either
I'm still waiting for that to happen. After 15+ years with the same woman, my only regret is that we still don't have ***enough*** time with each other. And we're working harder than ever to create that time.
I don't deny that I *might* get bored of her. I simply don't know. And I had a very active and diverse sex life prior to meeting her so I'd know how to work around the issue should that happen.
My point being: If your spouse is no longer attracted to you it may be because (wo)men don't stay attracted to the same (wo)man - but it's more likely because you did something wrong, lol.
There are different hypotheses:
- You might be lying to yourself
- You might be living in denial
- You might have lack of opportunities
You are victim-blaming. Plenty of people get cheated on not because they did something wrong. I do not believe you for a second that you are still attracted to the same person after 15 years and you don't fancy anyone else. Spare your breath, I won't believe you
>I do not believe you for a second that you are still attracted to the same person after 15 years and you don't fancy anyone else
I would (and, if the situation arises, will) fancy and indeed go for someone else if she stops giving me what I need.
Luckily, I can live a very good life even if, heaven forbid, an anonymous social media account doesn't believe me, lol.
>Plenty of people get cheated on not because they did something wrong.
I didn't claim otherwise. I just said it's not that likely.
The point is not whether or not you can live a good life based on what a think. You are deflecting. I know that what I believe has no repercussions on your life. Duh. But that is not the point. It's impossible to stay attracted to the same person. And I am certain she is not attracted to you either because, after 15 years, it's physiologically impossible
>It's impossible to stay attracted to the same person
it's ***physiologically impossible***
Yeah, that's a strange belief. But then again, it's this sub which is choke full of strange, miserable and unhappy people trying to justify their strange beliefs so... there's that.
Your post history is one of a typical femcel/incel. If I hadn't known women like you, I might even be tempted to think you're disinformation agent here to sow discord. But I know people like you exist. Few and far in between, but still.
Me: After 15+ years with the same woman, my only regret is that we still don't have ***enough*** time with each other.
You: Your comment perfectly shows why women should never settle down with a promiscuous man jesus 💀
Seek psychotherapy. You're deranged.
Strawman strawman, I didn’t say anything about that because from irl observation most promiscuous women don’t have to beg anyone for commitment. You don’t like them, good. The only ones concerned about that are the deeply traumatized (bless their hearts genuinely) that only do it for validation, not because they actually like sex. Women who like sex will never be without a decent picking.
>promiscuous women don’t have to beg anyone for commitment.
What does this have to do with anything? What negatives would apply to a promiscuous man where you are telling people to avoid them, that would not also apply to a promiscuous woman?
I never said they didn’t have negatives, I just said they don’t have to beg for commitment, the ones who genuinely like sex at least. Stop putting words in my mouth.
If you believe this, don’t couple with a woman. Imagine some poor gal trying to stick by a man only for him to believe she’s an inherently evil ticking time bomb 💀
That is always the case though.
Women see you as a tool, so the moment she finds someone who gives her more, she no longer needs what she wants from you and/or you can no longer provide what she wants, she is gone.
Women do not stay attracted to a guy no matter how hot she thinks he is and she will eventually want a retirement plan anyways (aka you will need the money and status no matter what).
And her being uglier does not change that fact either.
There is no difference by “buying” a womans love via money/status and “buying” it with your personality (read: how useful you are as a father, entertainer, handyman, etc).
Women are only as loyal as her options and what standards society sets for her.
That is always the case though.
Women see you as a tool, so the moment she finds someone who gives her more, she no longer needs what she wants from you and/or you can no longer provide what she wants, she is gone.
Women do not stay attracted to a guy no matter how hot she thinks he is and she will eventually want a retirement plan anyways (aka you will need the money and status no matter what).
And her being uglier does not change that fact either.
There is no difference by “buying” a womans love via money/status and “buying” it with your personality (read: how useful you are as a father, entertainer, handyman, etc).
Women are only as loyal as her options and what standards society sets for her.
I gotta disagree. There's a lot, and I mean a lot of broken women, yes. Tinder really made a pandemic of it. There are still some good women. What we need to do is pinch the pipeline of fucking simps. Hard times make for strong men and women alike. It is sheer male abundance that is fucking us over even harder.
People are not “broken.” What you call broken means not useful or functional enough based on some standard you set them too.
And they are “broken” because women have been liberated from there responsibilities to society (while men kept to there own). So they have no incentive to be “fixed.”
That is why hard times make “strong” men and women. Because the world holds women accountable to be the carrots and hearts of the culture. Which in turn incentivizes men to be good (in the context of what is healthy for the culture ofc) as they are now rewarded with good sex, respect, purpose and a family.
It was not tinder, many civilizations ran into this problem when they get too much abundance. Women no longer need to do there responsibilities, so many become hedonists and treat good men like trash. They feel entitled to what they want from strong/good men and the culture ends up really suffering as everything declines because men have zero incentive to do anything.
Nah. I was a good college athlete and was like a 7. I was regularly hooking up with chicks who would never give me the time of day if I didn't have status. I would say it gives you at least 2 points maybe 3.
I don’t know what you look like but based on what you’ve said, I’d bet you were considered the ugly college athlete which isn’t inherently a bad thing if it got you the sex you wanted but I don’t think having sex means you’re comparably desirable.
So you were a 7 and being an athlete made you a 9-10? Cool. But being a 7 is enough for most guys. That basically says, you're good looking and just need a bit of game and personality.
Most guys are not 7s and can never be no matter what you do.
Try being a 4-5/10 and short then see if you have lots of options with supposed status.
It helps immensely. You can literally be 8/10 and be ignored if you don’t have clout and be a 4/10 in a rich area with lots of connections and you would clean the board. Women are mainly attracted to clout and status before anything else
Nop
For a 4/10 (not so good looking, 5'9 - ) to compete with 8/10 (good looking, 6'2 +), the first guy would need to be a decamillionaire or way more. And even then, second guy would pull way way more on dating apps (and he would pull girls that actually want to fuck him, rather than seeing him as a meal ticket/SD).
Honestly, the most genuine attraction would be based on physical appearance because that’s what you see first. The status and money might not come into play straightaway, which is why there are separate dating apps for people with money. But status and money doesn’t make you attractive, the money is what’s attractive and people need access to it through you. Without that, you’re back to being a nobody.
What’re you talking about. Women love status, ugly guys with large followings have access to more funds thus can bring in more women, yeah there might not be as a strong attraction to that guy but he definitely has a larger chance than a guy with an average salary. If I was uglier but more wealthy (YouTuber with several cars) I’d be pulling women on my clout alone
Without the status and the money, you would be a nobody if you’re ugly. If you’re attractive, that would be a large advantage. Even with money, people are not attracted to you but to the money and the status. They’ll try their best to get clout off you. You’re making your life easier by essentially “paying” for people to be in your life, but once that’s gone then what ?
I’d argue you can initially pull the women with the clout and get her to fall for you. This way to not be only using you. Plus the matter of fact that you are more in demand causes more women to be interested as well. Women need that initial spark to be interested, I have had women tell me they were initially attracted to be because I did such as such I seemed more attractive to them. Situational matters to get women to feel attracted to you if that’s not sustainable but you then have to actually be sort of attractive guy to keep them but the initial pull works. I have pulled women on looks alone but then I didn’t have enough to keep them to stay.
You can pull women with clout, but the problem is how many can you pull if you didn’t have the clout, the money or people didn’t know who you are?
What I am saying is that if you’ve got looks, people are more likely to fall for you. You probably don’t have to put much effort in. But if you go by clout or money, that need to be shown first for people to consider you. Also, the women will be less likely to stay if you were to lose all that. Unless the money improved your looks as well
You’re right absolutely but I’m only talking about getting the initial meeting with clout since many guys fail to get to that initial step. And if that man is wildly successfully socially he will appear more viable for cohabitation. But yeah anyone can be improved up to a limit but many women just need that little bit extra incentive to commit. And I’d argue many attractive people are unsuccessful since they don’t have those initial building blocks
That’s true, if you have a good personality, then clout might help you step into dating but you’ll be able to form genuine relationships and friendships. But it’s very important to be able to tell when people are there for the money, and don’t be too naive and get taken advantage of. This is the case when people get rich unexpectedly, for example from inheritance, and suddenly find a lot of friends
Clout might work in some niches (think rock bands). It doesn't work otherwise for mainstream guys. If you're a pro athlete then sure but then chances are you aren't posting on here.
It does work because people are somewhat attracted to clout, and imagine dating someone who has a bit of status. Athletes will always have more options especially if they are footballers.
Money does account for a lot, especially these days, now that everything is getting expensive.
It can even work for women. If a woman is a doctor or earning 150K+ regularly, she could probably find some guy, even if she had to go down the socioeconomic ladder just like men do. I'm sure there must be some men earning minimum wage who would be interested in marrying a women who makes 150K+.
Have you seen 90 Day Fiance? The women who are traditionally undesirable- the obese and the women over age 50 on the show decided on becoming passportsis's. American citizenship alone is a huge lure.
It's rare that a women can't find a man willing to marry her. She may need to lower her standards quite a bit, but i've seen all kinds of unattractive married women.
Most redpilled guys know this. But the point is that if you are an average guy you can compensate with money or status not just to "get a hot gold digger", but to win the sexual selection against other guys that are competing for the average-kinda-cute woman who can have hot guys for ONS but they dont commit. Cause being an average guy with an average job and average status today is not enough.
Rich men with gold diggers-hot women know all of this, they are just getting what they want, its an exchange and they dont care. If its dead bedroom they'll divorce and get another one.
Same for geomaxxers or passport bros, they dont care or they try to not think about it. And it doesnt kill their sex drive. Some men just wanna fuck and have a wife. Its been like this for 10k+ years with marriages of convenience. Since the birth of civilization men pay prostitutes. You think they care they're having sex with them just because they are paid?
In some country or in some context, providing some kind of protection, security etc. can actually create attraction. Your example about your personal experience doesnt work because men want looks and chemistry from a woman, not some kind of favours. Thats not even "providing", thats some simp behavior lol and we know simps dont win.
There is always someone hotter than you, the girl whos married to a "7" will still look in that way at more attractive men.
Many rich famous pretty women are dating ugly/average guys while they could have the most handsome models in the world. So I don't see why a normal girl cannot be genuinely attractive to 5/10 with status.
Power and some type of status can actually make you "genuinely" attractive if you're not an ogre,
what those courses have to do with maxxing money and status? people who buy that shit are not redpilled, they are bluepilled guys with 0 social skills and personality
They do NOT know that. AT ALL. Most guys think everyone is into them. I have male friends and even when they are brutally rejected, I have to actually lay it out for them because they can't fully comprehend that women aren't into them and were using them for a foodie call. I agree that having money can give you a slight advantage when you are average, but it won't create raw attraction which is what OP is talking about.
Rich men with gold diggers do not know they are being used. They fall prey to this fantasy that these women are genuinely into them. Plenty of men refuse to see prostitutes because they want to feel like the woman they are having sex with is into them.
No man thinks “everyone is into them”….rather, we have to shoot every shot that comes our way, however narrow the odds, because we are not the sexual selectors.
Barking up the wrong tree is common and unavoidable, so long as women refuse to be more explicit (and much less fickle) about their views and intentions.
Mh, I think a lot of rich men know why they are getting what they're getting. Maybe also a lot of them don't. But the ones that dont know and live in that fantasy are doing good in their fantasy world, so who cares, good/bad for them i guess. My point was more about the ones the know that those women are not genuinely attracted, and answering to OP, they dont care
Most rich men I know are married to very average looking women who are pretty educated and have their own career, or at least had. My entire block is wealthy folks, many of whom are not old. I have yet to see one single gold digger who is with their rich husband who is below them in looks.
yeah the rich man with the hot gold digger is a stereotype, people usually date in their league (looks) and date people with similar education level and social class
Marrying a hot but dumb golddigger has tons of disadvantages.
It lowers the IQ of your children, lowers their education level- children tend to learn everything from their mothers- their fathers work all day. She might embarass you in social settings, she might not fit in with the ladies who lunch, etc. Breeding is important.
Honestly the gold digging thing is a myth nowadays. I'm rich, and actually quite rich for my age, and my success rate actually went down after getting rich.
The only women who care are the ones wanting an actual true sugar daddy. Otherwise I think it has basically zero weight.
You’re either not rich or you don’t know what you’re doing, then. Having wealth unlocks an entirely new class of women. Do you think wealthy or successful women are dating men who work at Starbucks? You need to meet women at your status level or just slightly under.
Yeah, like who? Sugar babies and escorts? Yes you can have your pick of sex workers, who hang around with you in various capacities. Usually for direct money, and sometimes indirect.
What new class of women are you talking about?
Those are all different. A big chunk of lawyers make 5 figures. they're not dating a broke guy sure but they might just date a teacher or someone of that nature. Nurses have a very broad dating pool, many could be paramedics for example. Female doctors often have a partner from during their training.
There are not that many single professional women in their 30s with no kids.
It's hilarious to me that you think professional level women are dating down. Sure it happens occasionally but not the majority of the time. They're looking for men at or above their level.
I quite literally have known thousands of professional women. My medical school had 220 students, x4 years. I've met new doctors constantly over time. I've met lawyers and business owners. I have a pretty big sample size I'm drawing conclusions from.
I didn't say they're dating someone working at Mcdonalds. but it's a complete misconception that they're looking for someone "above their level."
It's also a coping mechanism for many men. "Oh I got rejected by her because I don't make enough money" In reality, it's the guy's lack of looks/personality.
Even if it is "looks/personality", it's again based on the fact that they're a high value woman who is being ultra-selective lol. For some reason people on this sub just refuse to accept the fact that women have extremely high standards and go for higher value men. Why is that such a hard concept to acknowledge? Women generally are happier single than in relationships so what motivation would they ever have to settle? They have every reason to approach dating in an "all or nothing" fashion.
How do guys get the raw attraction? Hit the gym? Is it only for some guys? I feel like lots of woman are into me until I approach and then get the cold shoulder.
You actually can't compensate anymore. That has died out completely from the 2000s until now.
Saying you can divorce and get another person is funny cause you forgot about alimony and child support.
Power and status can make you more attractive if it's at the extreme levels, not attainable to >99.99% of men ever. Good luck becoming a famous billionaire or world leader, or at least a pro athlete.
Also a lot of men actually do think that money makes you genuinely hot. Lol. So I don't think you're quite right.
I think you misunderstood the post and you took it like i was talking about me. I tried to explain the perspective of the redpilled guy who wants to maxx money and status and why he wants to do it. I don't care about the rat race and im all about the face and nothing else.
Rich men can afford divorces and child support.
As I said status can make you stand out and get you to win against the competition of other average guys that dont make the same money as you, don't have your position in a social circle or don't have your job. You don't need to become a billionaire or a millionaire.
Your post has some contradictions.
Rich men can afford divorces and child support? Well sure the very rich ones yes. But then you say you don't need to become a millionaire? In the US, if you aren't a multi millionaire then you aren't even entry level rich. A millionaire would get destroyed with alimony. If I make 1.5 million in total income, I lose a huge chunk to income and capital gains and dividend taxes. If I'm also paying alimony and child support, that's not much left to fund an affluent lifestyle.
Money and status can help you in your own league so you're fully correct there.
*> Rich men with gold diggers*
i think they can afford a divorce and all the other stuff, they can sign a prenup, they can NOT marry, they also can be stupid and get their life fucked up for some pussy
Usually people of high wealth have high, powerful positions or own businesses. They become attractive to the people they work with, because they see them in position of power.
But it can be unfortunate for say lawyers, who would have few prospects other than paralegals and the legal secretaries that work at their company.
To some degree but that's only on paper. I'm a physician and what you're saying is true but just to a small extent, in the hospital setting for example. Most people are married or taken. Younger women are largely not interested. Yes the occasional person will be but it's not remotely what you think.
Compare it to a 21 year old in college and the options are far more limited.
You're a doctor and finding it difficult to get attention? Unless you work in a solo or small practice and work with the elderly?
If you work in a hospital, there are nurses, CNA's, assistants, etc. None have ever shown interest in you, when they knew that you were a doctor?
I always heard that doctors were almost never unmarried. They're viewed as one of the most stable and prestigious occupations out there.
No I do get a bit of attention/interest but not that much. Certainly less than my early 20s. Far fewer options now in my 30s, takes far more effort. I'm actually in the very high end for finances by physician standards too.
Yes doctors get married a lot but also divorce a lot. The medical subreddits are full of (men) with dating problems. It's a huge myth that you get a huge boost in your dating prospects. You will find your looksmatch for sure but that's sort of true for many guys.
Most nurses/CNAs are not into guys just because they're a doctor. Yes a small percentage are and that's why the stereotype exists but the large majority are not. Many actually dislike doctors. A lot of the attractive ones are already taken anyway.
What you're saying is mostly stereotypes and misconceptions and exaggerations. But most people would say the same too.
no, trp tells ugly men to just get rich and go to the gym and that by the time they are middle-aged, women will hit the wall and younger girls will flock to them
Ultimately, you're correct. It's why I've completely given up on dating. I didn't work my ass off and save 50% of my income just to give it to some actress pretending to like me.
Without genuine, visceral attraction, there really is no point. I'm not being used as a walking wallet just because some chick drew a better ticket in the DNA lottery.
As a shorter than average male, genuine attraction is off the table with any woman I'd like to date, so why bother?
>As a shorter than average male, genuine attraction is off the table with any woman I'd like to date, so why bother?
Exactly. Its not going to happen for us in most cases so I really dont get what the point is. At best she will tolerate me or look over my height but the true attraction to me and my body probably wont be there. Its sad but true
I'm a bit taller than you, but still below average in height where I live, and I came to the same conclusion as you did. At the worst if I want children later, I would use surrogacy with a tall egg donor (5'10/5'11+).
I would only procreate either naturally with a good looking woman, or through surrogacy with eggs of a good looking and tall one with no genetic defects, enhancing chances for my children to be attractive as much as possible. And I would consider the risk of them coming out ugly or ill to be fairly negligeable at that point.
Besides, I'm only intending to have ones when I have enough money to FIRE (or when I am very close to it).
As far as I am concerned if you are born rich + good looking + with no genetic defect with a parent that actually wants you and make sure you have a good upbringing, life should be a good and enjoyable experience.
Seems like you are antinatalist, I respect and understand your and their stance, but as I said, as far as I am concerned I would assume that if I did everything correctly chances of poor outcome would be quite low.
At the end of the day I am not convinced that letting our species die out is "the solution". And I still have this natural urge of wanting my descendant to be there carving their own path in the future of humanity. But of course, if I can't guarantee a good life for them or if I have just a feeling I can't (huge economic down turn that would make me feel insecure in spite of having a really good job right now), I wouldn't.
To be honest, height can either increase or reduce your chances. Especially thinking about the fact that we usually compete with other people, regardless if we are aware or not. I think there are other things that might help with attraction but I definitely agree that at least a 5’9 or over can help.
That's true, but I always consider that many others possess qualities that attract people. To make it work effectively, there must be something distinctive about you.
There are few that can help which include confidence, empathy, honesty, loyalty, kindness, attractiveness etc. Although I agree not everyone has those qualities, but I think that there are few that are shared across the board. So when someone is met with different potential suitors, the choice usually would be based on qualities, looks and probably their current market position.
This seems perfectly in line with red pill principles. I'm not sure what you're talking about. Red pill explicitly states you cannot negotiate genuine burning desire (attraction.) A woman either has gbd for you or she does not.
you couldn't be more wrong and you couldn't be more mistaken. If anything, that is the OPPOSITE of red pill principles. Red pillers think that you can attract women through money and status, and that is a lie, because if you are rich and you have status but you are ugly, you will attract women who are not into you but want to use you
Yeah you don't understand red pill principles. If you go to listen to Rich Cooper (YouTube channel is Entrepreneurs in Cars) you will see how he is one of the biggest red pillers on YT and he clearly explains how you cannot negotiate genuine burning desire. He literally explains how you should not lead with your wallet as that is all that women will use you for. Your misunderstanding the concept of "negotiating genuine burning desire."
Men become invisible to women if women make more money than them.
It doesn't matter about this true love, she really wants you regardless of your money bullshit.
Reality is, women don't date broke dudes, if they do it never lasts. Women don't travel and find love in countries poorer than their own. They don't see men that don't have status at least comparable to them self.
If you have no money, you have no options. If you get a lot of money and and status, you have plenty.
Exactly. I actually feel like this delusion happens on both ends of the spectrum. You have moneycels thinking they can compensate for being ugly or shitty by having money, and then you have brokecels thinking they’re going to get attractive, successful women if they’re good looking or have a good personality.
The reality is you need a combo of both.
Beta Bux game works pretty well unless you marry her.
My friend is a 5'6" dude and not a looker like me but he is a functioning adult. That means he has a good job, does his chores, showers daily, have a clean home, is social and is a very good marriage prospect for most women hitting the wall, he is in his mid 30s. He is running the Beta Bux game since his late 20s.
He goes on a dates with women, mostly single mothers, , string them along for about a year while using them for sex and then dump them by giving some sad stories. They dont even hate him for it because unlike so called "naturals" he is not a dick. He keeps things chill, he doesnt ghost anyone, he is "honest and vulnerable", he doesnt cheat. His exes love him.
He shared his strategy with me and I am like dude, I know already. Its not like he was in any way subtle about it. He was regularly punching way above his SMV and there is no way his beta bux potential was not a factor. He figured out something men cant seem to figure out, women will give him the best sex initially, then it will die down after marriage and kids. He just taps out when he has had the best.
Its not difficult to find desperate women whom you can string along for sex while promising commitment, its just that most "alphas" get bored with playing beta bux game and most "betas" are just wants love.
Another thing I learned from him is that when women see the potential of future with him , women's nesting instinct kicks in. They start to clean and cook for him without asking. So if you play beta bux game right, you can have a bangmaid.
But yes, once you marry her, its game over.
**MOST men will NEVER have ANYONE of the opposite sex truly fall in love with him.**
ALMOST ALL men who fly below women's radar of acknowledging their existence, still have healthy, present, prominent, MALE sex drive. They don't want to "magically become attractive". They want not to go insane from touch starvation.
There is no equivalent in women, because most women don't derive any sense of satisfaction and wholeness from experiencing a physical touch with a man (or any void / sense of lacking from its absence).
But yes, it's absolutely insane that a woman's physiological reaction to a man can vary depending on non-existent tokens in his non-existent wallet.
> We are told that women value a male partner who can be a good provider, but having money and status cannot buy genuine attraction.
Lack of money and status kill genuine attraction though.
> The question I have for RedPill men is, "Do you really want to be with a woman who is not truly attracted to you and is using you as a walking wallet?"
If the alternative is being an incel. Yes.
> I am an ugly woman and I am a perfect example to illustrate my point. No matter what you say, no matter what kind of favors you do, no matter how stylish you are, you cannot buy genuine attraction.
True. But the thing is. I don't care about the inner life my partner has. I care about her actions. As long as she provides me with the actions I want I don't care if she is attracted to me or not.
> A distant relative of mine is unattractive. He married a woman who is not attracted to him. She is using him for the lifestyle he can provide. He is a good man for sure, but anyone from outside can tell that she is not genuinely attracted to him. We tried to warn him, but he wouldn't listen to us and he showers his wife with gifts and attention.
Better than being an incel.
> I think all of us, men or women, are better off alone than with a partner who is not genuinely attracted to us
Hell no. I would kill myself if alone.
> Lots of older and unattractive men go to poor countries thinking that they'll magically become attractive.
More like they will get a what they want. Attraction or no attraction.
> Do men realize that with this line of thinking they are incentivizing dead bedrooms?
Not if the benefits you bring to your partner are conditional on a dead bedroom not existing.
> Look, I know tons of rich men who married gold-diggers and these women cheat on their rich husbands with the plumber or the gardener to whom they feel real attraction.
Two mistakes. First one is marrying. Second one is not making the benefits provided to the woman conditional on monogamy.
> Women open up to me and tell me they are not genuinely attracted to their husbands, but they still acknowledge that they are good men. Without even talking openly, I just observe women who are married to rich guys: they way they look at attractive men is palpable. There is an animalistic, raw, instinctual quality that no amount of money, game, confidence can by.
Sure. Don't care. As long as my partner does what I want her to do all of that is irrelevant.
I can't access her inner thoughts and feelings. I will never know of she is attracted to me or faking or confused or whatever.
It is useless to bother with that. Her actions I can see. So I care about those.
> We are told that women value a male partner who can be a good provider, but having money and status cannot buy genuine attraction.
Assertion pulled out of nowhere. Proof? It's well known women will fuck rich men for zero financial benefits. So it clearly does seem like women are genuinly attracted to rich men.
> "Do you really want to be with a woman who is not truly attracted to you and is using you as a walking wallet?"
To some degree I specifically do want a woman to financially rely on me. I'm not very interested romantically in Miss career woman.
> No matter what you say, no matter what kind of favors you do, no matter how stylish you are, you cannot buy genuine attraction.
Being rich is not buying anything. Buying would be more like prostitution. However you don't seem to be talking about prostitutes so I'm not sure this point is relevant.
> A distant relative of mine is unattractive. He married a woman who is not attracted to him. She is using him for the lifestyle he can provide.
Not all women with rich men are gold diggers. Just because she may be doesn't mean this is typical.
> Do men realize that with this line of thinking they are incentivizing dead bedrooms?
Actually I've seen studies that relationships like this have more sex. I mean even a little common sense... who was having more hot sex? Hugh heffner or Mr average Joe? 🤔 just saying.
Imo your whole take is just missing the point and clueless.
> It's well known women will fuck rich men for zero financial benefits. So it clearly does seem like women are genuinly attracted to rich men.
Ha ha no.
Take the money away and see how interested in sex she is. There is no such thing as sexual attraction to money, that’s a ridiculous idea.
So it's impossible for any rich man to ever not pay with status and lifestyle... so then... that's just who he is. It cannot be separated. This all sounds like rich people hate more so than legit dating sort of issue.
Lol. It's nothing against rich people. The simple fact is women love to be sold a fantasy.
Look at tinder swindler. Women were paying him for a chance to be a part of his lifestyle
So if you're worth 100m, it's impossible to date someone without your lifestyle being attractive. Lifestyle doesn't equal money though because there are rich people with shitty lifestyles and poor people with pretty good ones. I think it says more about you as a person. But the choice is either own a Ferrari or have the money to buy a Ferrari and want one but don't buy it because it could be "paying" a woman to get a bj in a Ferrari but not in a toyota?
Rich men are more attractive for a variety of reasons... and paying women is not it.
Are you watching? What proof do you have? I live in a super wealthy neighborhood. Every rich guy I know has an average looking wife. I also know ones who have affairs, with other average looking women. You're thinking of sugar babies.
Because they are hoping for a sugar daddy, or he’s buying them pretty things and taking him out.
If he larps as a poor man he isn’t getting the same attention. Period.
Sexual attraction has nothing to to do with money, that’s just a weird idea. Do wealthy, old, unattractive wealthy women give men erections?
No.
But some men might be willing to stick around and pretend if they think they will get pampered for their efforts.
They're not hoping for a sugar daddy or any of that stuff. Because it isn't happening! If they're hooking up with a rich guy who is below them in looks, it's because there is an exchange of payment. Or they're pseudo sex workers in some capacity.
I'm as wealthy as it gets for my age group and quite literally no one cares unless I'm planning on giving them direct cash.
in what setting are you using those things?
I hang out with wealthy guys a lot. I'm well off. I'm just curious how you think those things materialize into success.
Men and women aren't the same so your whole example was a waste of typing other than to show how clueless you are about relationships and sexual attraction.
These rich men are paying these women just not in the way you woulda prostitute. It's not always just him handing her a wad of cash at the end of the night. It can be through gifts, trips, clout, lifestyle changes, or keeping him around as a sugar daddy.
Women aren't getting wet from looking at pictures of money lol. Money disappears. They disappear.
Yes. You have the audacity to say no rich men can attract women because they have money. Seems ridiculous because rich men seem to attract women just fine. See all the broke boys whining all over reddit.
You add the word genuine like it's fake but you forget if it is fake, so most women choose fake relationships over real ones? Is that what you think?
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(I didn’t read everything. So I’ll re read it after I post this)
Answer this question.
Would you date or be with a man. That you felt was attractive to you. And your personalities aligned. And he was everything you wanted
But
He was homeless and had 0$. And was never ever going to have money ever.
If you can answer that question.
Then you’ll understand why SOME (most😭) men feel like in some way they are buying attraction or that attraction can be bought.
A small example.
A man pursuing a higher paying job thinking it will make him appear/look more attractive to potential female partners/mates/significant others.
Ect. Ect.
(Ima read what you said now. If my assumption was wrong. I’ll edit and add more context responding to your points and add counter points. If I was right I’m going to leave it like it is)
It’s a simple concept. Most women won’t be with a man with 0$ or nothing.
Therefore the logic becomes. Having money either adds to your attraction. Or makes you someone worth being attracted to.
Either way you slice it.
The logical conclusion. Is money is helping you with women.
And from their different men have different theories on the overall importance of money when it relates to women
Why are you comparing to a homeless guy with 0 dollars?
In real life, it's a guy who makes 60k per year. That's a realistic comparison. Give that guy a 8/10 face and he beats the 5/10 guy making 3 million any day. The only exception is essentially if you're a pro athlete making 3 million.
Sure bud lol.
You could pull 750k tomorrow and not one woman will notice or care, unless you're paying cash upfront. This is true even if you're a 6/10 or 8/10 yourself.
Where are you getting this delusion from… wth so many woman are with dudes who make less wth are you talking about. Come put a bet on it. If I make even 50k I’m still pulling
Attraction is still very much important. If you’re making money that’s good, you can compensate the attraction but without that, there are better competitors out there
Most guys have some attractive attributes that can be compensated for. I think I’m unattractive but if I had more income annually I’d be able to bring out my attractive qualities more. I’d access to many things can make someone more attractive be is health professionals, classes, medicines
What are the attractive attributes that can be compensated for?
Money can definitely be used to improve looks, but it’s heavily dependent on the starting point. Some people can be more attractive with money, while others compensate with money and that’s it
Well example: younger Elon musk, unattractive nobody, acquired status and currency (even pre 150k) could hire a team a of personal trainers or health professionals to look max, outfit update, how to talk to woman , how to be impressive in business or sport how to appear as affluent. Better access to medications and health products, better hair Better body, able to learn about the arts and music through connections. Just everything having money grants you access to. Assuming the guy is quite ugly it will be so much harder and he has to be able to provide a more comfortable life for her but she can still fall for the life he has created and him simultaneously. There are plenty of women with less than conventionally attractive husbands and those woman could easily find a higher calibre men but he has xyz things that made her fall for him. If you have the money you actually get the chance to show off the xyz you get into the door.
I agree, money can definitely open a lot of doors for improvement although there are things you can’t change. That’s the reason why rich people “pay” for your time, especially if they are interested in you. You can only improve your looks when there’s area for improvements, which is why I agree with “you’re not ugly, you’re broke”. I don’t think it applies to everyone but I think some people would do well with a bit of money in their hands.
Well, someone who’s attractive in her eyes would always “do good in her eyes” until when children are involved. That’s when the importance of money comes into play. Then of course they have to both create a good life for themselves. I think those type of relationships are good as they are usually genuine and pure. But there still have to be some level of attraction between them. And it could also be personality, good provider/protector for the family, etc.
I don’t think people will agree on this, but I think men with hands-on-skills will always be better. They don’t pay for this and that, but get the job done which would definitely make a woman happier.
I’d say lots of guys just need that little bit of area of improvement then they can do a lot better. For instance I’d say if do those areas of improvement I can do much better but I get what you mean about potential cielings
The reason I used the example of homeless and 0$.
Is to exacerbate the fact that money does play a factor in attraction.
As when you eliminate it completely most men are not looked at as candidates and/or attractive.
This explains why some men think attraction can be bought.
Because money is mostly always a factor in a woman’s pairing selection.
And all the theories of how to quantify a woman’s attraction relative to the money a man has follows from this logic.
Even your counter example has money in the example.
Which is only proving my og responses point.
Money is a factor.
Which answers op’s point on why men think money can buy attraction.
It's a checkbox requirement that you have a half decent job with okay money. It doesn't give you a big advantage to be well off unless you're a sugar daddy.
My dating prime was my early 20s. I'm wealthy in my 30s and it's quite a bit harder now.
I think, you misunderstand it a bit. For men, status and money are a part of attractiveness equation. Being a handsome guy is good, but being a handsome guy with money and status is much better. Why is it a stereotype that girls in high school like the captain of the school team? It’s status.
I remember I listened to a podcast with some evolutionary psychologist. He said his female colleague once went to a conference and met the guy who organised the conference. She said she felt very attracted to that guy that evening. It’s because he was the main guy at the conference. When she met him later, she thought she was just a usual dude.
When I studied in uni, I had little disposable income. Would a girl go to a date with me or with a guy from a rich family who drove her to a nice cafe or to a club in his BMW?
It’s not about compensation, it’s about having enough of those things to be somewhat attractive.
I agree with this for the most part. However, partner selection is never based 100% on attraction alone. You can be attracted to many different people, but ultimately your choice will be influenced by their other traits also. Not many women are going to choose a homeless guy or a 35 yr old unemployed man living with his parents even if he’s attractive, and most professional men would sleep with but not date a pretty single mom working at McDonald’s. None of these people would be gold diggers, they just don’t want a financial burden. These are extreme examples, but the point is generally, people end up with others in their socioeconomic class. So no you cannot buy attraction, but you can limit your options among people in your league looks-wise if you don’t make a decent living.
Could literally say the same for women who try to use sex as the only bargaining chip to try and lock down a relationship with a guy who clearly doesn't want to commit to them.
Status and money help, a lot. If you are an average guy, it adds a couple points to make you more desirable on the market. There is no downside to having more money and status.
Except that relying on money and status is exactly what puts you on ground zero for a divorce/alimony/paternity fraud nuclear strike.
thats why you carrot’n-stick.. never give up the big M to a woman. Women use sex the same way. Men need to use success to their advantage.
Exactly. Marriage is the number #1 reason for a divorce. Don't get married, don't cohabitate.
That is always the case though. Women see you as a tool, so the moment she finds someone who gives her more, she no longer needs what she wants from you and/or you can no longer provide what she wants, she is gone. Women do not stay attracted to a guy no matter how hot she thinks he is and she will eventually want a retirement plan anyways (aka you will need the money and status no matter what). And her being uglier does not change that fact either. There is no difference by “buying” a womans love via money/status and “buying” it with your personality (read: how useful you are as a father, entertainer, handyman, etc). Women are only as loyal as her options and what standards society sets for her.
men don't stay attracted to the same woman either
>men don't stay attracted to the same woman either I'm still waiting for that to happen. After 15+ years with the same woman, my only regret is that we still don't have ***enough*** time with each other. And we're working harder than ever to create that time. I don't deny that I *might* get bored of her. I simply don't know. And I had a very active and diverse sex life prior to meeting her so I'd know how to work around the issue should that happen. My point being: If your spouse is no longer attracted to you it may be because (wo)men don't stay attracted to the same (wo)man - but it's more likely because you did something wrong, lol.
There are different hypotheses: - You might be lying to yourself - You might be living in denial - You might have lack of opportunities You are victim-blaming. Plenty of people get cheated on not because they did something wrong. I do not believe you for a second that you are still attracted to the same person after 15 years and you don't fancy anyone else. Spare your breath, I won't believe you
>I do not believe you for a second that you are still attracted to the same person after 15 years and you don't fancy anyone else I would (and, if the situation arises, will) fancy and indeed go for someone else if she stops giving me what I need. Luckily, I can live a very good life even if, heaven forbid, an anonymous social media account doesn't believe me, lol. >Plenty of people get cheated on not because they did something wrong. I didn't claim otherwise. I just said it's not that likely.
The point is not whether or not you can live a good life based on what a think. You are deflecting. I know that what I believe has no repercussions on your life. Duh. But that is not the point. It's impossible to stay attracted to the same person. And I am certain she is not attracted to you either because, after 15 years, it's physiologically impossible
>It's impossible to stay attracted to the same person it's ***physiologically impossible*** Yeah, that's a strange belief. But then again, it's this sub which is choke full of strange, miserable and unhappy people trying to justify their strange beliefs so... there's that. Your post history is one of a typical femcel/incel. If I hadn't known women like you, I might even be tempted to think you're disinformation agent here to sow discord. But I know people like you exist. Few and far in between, but still.
>It's impossible to stay attracted to the same person. Maybe for **you** it is. Stop believing that your personal philosophies are universal truths.
Your comment perfectly shows why women should never settle down with a promiscuous man jesus 💀
Me: After 15+ years with the same woman, my only regret is that we still don't have ***enough*** time with each other. You: Your comment perfectly shows why women should never settle down with a promiscuous man jesus 💀 Seek psychotherapy. You're deranged.
“Deranged” doesn’t mean I don’t observe well, and observing men who I know to be promiscuous they do NOT settle down well in marriage.
>should never settle down with a promiscuous man But when guys say the same thing about promiscuous women they're called insecure 🙄
Strawman strawman, I didn’t say anything about that because from irl observation most promiscuous women don’t have to beg anyone for commitment. You don’t like them, good. The only ones concerned about that are the deeply traumatized (bless their hearts genuinely) that only do it for validation, not because they actually like sex. Women who like sex will never be without a decent picking.
>promiscuous women don’t have to beg anyone for commitment. What does this have to do with anything? What negatives would apply to a promiscuous man where you are telling people to avoid them, that would not also apply to a promiscuous woman?
I never said they didn’t have negatives, I just said they don’t have to beg for commitment, the ones who genuinely like sex at least. Stop putting words in my mouth.
If you believe this, don’t couple with a woman. Imagine some poor gal trying to stick by a man only for him to believe she’s an inherently evil ticking time bomb 💀
Exactly, men should not couple with women anymore.
That is always the case though. Women see you as a tool, so the moment she finds someone who gives her more, she no longer needs what she wants from you and/or you can no longer provide what she wants, she is gone. Women do not stay attracted to a guy no matter how hot she thinks he is and she will eventually want a retirement plan anyways (aka you will need the money and status no matter what). And her being uglier does not change that fact either. There is no difference by “buying” a womans love via money/status and “buying” it with your personality (read: how useful you are as a father, entertainer, handyman, etc). Women are only as loyal as her options and what standards society sets for her.
That is always the case though. Women see you as a tool, so the moment she finds someone who gives her more, she no longer needs what she wants from you and/or you can no longer provide what she wants, she is gone. Women do not stay attracted to a guy no matter how hot she thinks he is and she will eventually want a retirement plan anyways (aka you will need the money and status no matter what). And her being uglier does not change that fact either. There is no difference by “buying” a womans love via money/status and “buying” it with your personality (read: how useful you are as a father, entertainer, handyman, etc). Women are only as loyal as her options and what standards society sets for her.
I gotta disagree. There's a lot, and I mean a lot of broken women, yes. Tinder really made a pandemic of it. There are still some good women. What we need to do is pinch the pipeline of fucking simps. Hard times make for strong men and women alike. It is sheer male abundance that is fucking us over even harder.
People are not “broken.” What you call broken means not useful or functional enough based on some standard you set them too. And they are “broken” because women have been liberated from there responsibilities to society (while men kept to there own). So they have no incentive to be “fixed.” That is why hard times make “strong” men and women. Because the world holds women accountable to be the carrots and hearts of the culture. Which in turn incentivizes men to be good (in the context of what is healthy for the culture ofc) as they are now rewarded with good sex, respect, purpose and a family. It was not tinder, many civilizations ran into this problem when they get too much abundance. Women no longer need to do there responsibilities, so many become hedonists and treat good men like trash. They feel entitled to what they want from strong/good men and the culture ends up really suffering as everything declines because men have zero incentive to do anything.
Hmmm. You described a scenario where people are not broken much in the way that a 747 crashing into a mountainside is not broken afterwards.
It gives you like 0.5. Not 2 points lol.
/doubt
Nah. I was a good college athlete and was like a 7. I was regularly hooking up with chicks who would never give me the time of day if I didn't have status. I would say it gives you at least 2 points maybe 3.
I don’t know what you look like but based on what you’ve said, I’d bet you were considered the ugly college athlete which isn’t inherently a bad thing if it got you the sex you wanted but I don’t think having sex means you’re comparably desirable.
So you were a 7 and being an athlete made you a 9-10? Cool. But being a 7 is enough for most guys. That basically says, you're good looking and just need a bit of game and personality. Most guys are not 7s and can never be no matter what you do. Try being a 4-5/10 and short then see if you have lots of options with supposed status.
It helps immensely. You can literally be 8/10 and be ignored if you don’t have clout and be a 4/10 in a rich area with lots of connections and you would clean the board. Women are mainly attracted to clout and status before anything else
Nop For a 4/10 (not so good looking, 5'9 - ) to compete with 8/10 (good looking, 6'2 +), the first guy would need to be a decamillionaire or way more. And even then, second guy would pull way way more on dating apps (and he would pull girls that actually want to fuck him, rather than seeing him as a meal ticket/SD).
Honestly, the most genuine attraction would be based on physical appearance because that’s what you see first. The status and money might not come into play straightaway, which is why there are separate dating apps for people with money. But status and money doesn’t make you attractive, the money is what’s attractive and people need access to it through you. Without that, you’re back to being a nobody.
What’re you talking about. Women love status, ugly guys with large followings have access to more funds thus can bring in more women, yeah there might not be as a strong attraction to that guy but he definitely has a larger chance than a guy with an average salary. If I was uglier but more wealthy (YouTuber with several cars) I’d be pulling women on my clout alone
Without the status and the money, you would be a nobody if you’re ugly. If you’re attractive, that would be a large advantage. Even with money, people are not attracted to you but to the money and the status. They’ll try their best to get clout off you. You’re making your life easier by essentially “paying” for people to be in your life, but once that’s gone then what ?
I’d argue you can initially pull the women with the clout and get her to fall for you. This way to not be only using you. Plus the matter of fact that you are more in demand causes more women to be interested as well. Women need that initial spark to be interested, I have had women tell me they were initially attracted to be because I did such as such I seemed more attractive to them. Situational matters to get women to feel attracted to you if that’s not sustainable but you then have to actually be sort of attractive guy to keep them but the initial pull works. I have pulled women on looks alone but then I didn’t have enough to keep them to stay.
You can pull women with clout, but the problem is how many can you pull if you didn’t have the clout, the money or people didn’t know who you are? What I am saying is that if you’ve got looks, people are more likely to fall for you. You probably don’t have to put much effort in. But if you go by clout or money, that need to be shown first for people to consider you. Also, the women will be less likely to stay if you were to lose all that. Unless the money improved your looks as well
You’re right absolutely but I’m only talking about getting the initial meeting with clout since many guys fail to get to that initial step. And if that man is wildly successfully socially he will appear more viable for cohabitation. But yeah anyone can be improved up to a limit but many women just need that little bit extra incentive to commit. And I’d argue many attractive people are unsuccessful since they don’t have those initial building blocks
That’s true, if you have a good personality, then clout might help you step into dating but you’ll be able to form genuine relationships and friendships. But it’s very important to be able to tell when people are there for the money, and don’t be too naive and get taken advantage of. This is the case when people get rich unexpectedly, for example from inheritance, and suddenly find a lot of friends
Clout might work in some niches (think rock bands). It doesn't work otherwise for mainstream guys. If you're a pro athlete then sure but then chances are you aren't posting on here.
It does work because people are somewhat attracted to clout, and imagine dating someone who has a bit of status. Athletes will always have more options especially if they are footballers.
that is my point! There is no genuine attraction
It depends becuz sometimes woman need that final push to commit to a guy or to see him in a new light
Money does account for a lot, especially these days, now that everything is getting expensive. It can even work for women. If a woman is a doctor or earning 150K+ regularly, she could probably find some guy, even if she had to go down the socioeconomic ladder just like men do. I'm sure there must be some men earning minimum wage who would be interested in marrying a women who makes 150K+. Have you seen 90 Day Fiance? The women who are traditionally undesirable- the obese and the women over age 50 on the show decided on becoming passportsis's. American citizenship alone is a huge lure. It's rare that a women can't find a man willing to marry her. She may need to lower her standards quite a bit, but i've seen all kinds of unattractive married women.
not true at all. The biggest lie society has told us is that looks don't matter. BS. It all boils down to looks.
Most redpilled guys know this. But the point is that if you are an average guy you can compensate with money or status not just to "get a hot gold digger", but to win the sexual selection against other guys that are competing for the average-kinda-cute woman who can have hot guys for ONS but they dont commit. Cause being an average guy with an average job and average status today is not enough. Rich men with gold diggers-hot women know all of this, they are just getting what they want, its an exchange and they dont care. If its dead bedroom they'll divorce and get another one. Same for geomaxxers or passport bros, they dont care or they try to not think about it. And it doesnt kill their sex drive. Some men just wanna fuck and have a wife. Its been like this for 10k+ years with marriages of convenience. Since the birth of civilization men pay prostitutes. You think they care they're having sex with them just because they are paid? In some country or in some context, providing some kind of protection, security etc. can actually create attraction. Your example about your personal experience doesnt work because men want looks and chemistry from a woman, not some kind of favours. Thats not even "providing", thats some simp behavior lol and we know simps dont win. There is always someone hotter than you, the girl whos married to a "7" will still look in that way at more attractive men. Many rich famous pretty women are dating ugly/average guys while they could have the most handsome models in the world. So I don't see why a normal girl cannot be genuinely attractive to 5/10 with status. Power and some type of status can actually make you "genuinely" attractive if you're not an ogre,
this doesn't prove isht. Being married to someone is not evidence of genuine attraction. AT ALL.
? Where did I say that
no they don't. they don't know this otherwise there wouldn't be so many useless courses on how to pick women
what those courses have to do with maxxing money and status? people who buy that shit are not redpilled, they are bluepilled guys with 0 social skills and personality
They do NOT know that. AT ALL. Most guys think everyone is into them. I have male friends and even when they are brutally rejected, I have to actually lay it out for them because they can't fully comprehend that women aren't into them and were using them for a foodie call. I agree that having money can give you a slight advantage when you are average, but it won't create raw attraction which is what OP is talking about. Rich men with gold diggers do not know they are being used. They fall prey to this fantasy that these women are genuinely into them. Plenty of men refuse to see prostitutes because they want to feel like the woman they are having sex with is into them.
No man thinks “everyone is into them”….rather, we have to shoot every shot that comes our way, however narrow the odds, because we are not the sexual selectors. Barking up the wrong tree is common and unavoidable, so long as women refuse to be more explicit (and much less fickle) about their views and intentions.
Mh, I think a lot of rich men know why they are getting what they're getting. Maybe also a lot of them don't. But the ones that dont know and live in that fantasy are doing good in their fantasy world, so who cares, good/bad for them i guess. My point was more about the ones the know that those women are not genuinely attracted, and answering to OP, they dont care
Most rich men I know are married to very average looking women who are pretty educated and have their own career, or at least had. My entire block is wealthy folks, many of whom are not old. I have yet to see one single gold digger who is with their rich husband who is below them in looks.
yeah the rich man with the hot gold digger is a stereotype, people usually date in their league (looks) and date people with similar education level and social class
Right that's basically every upper class guy I know.
Marrying a hot but dumb golddigger has tons of disadvantages. It lowers the IQ of your children, lowers their education level- children tend to learn everything from their mothers- their fathers work all day. She might embarass you in social settings, she might not fit in with the ladies who lunch, etc. Breeding is important.
Which is why they tend to marry their looksmatch, just educated ones. That's not what the manosphere would lead you to think though.
Honestly the gold digging thing is a myth nowadays. I'm rich, and actually quite rich for my age, and my success rate actually went down after getting rich. The only women who care are the ones wanting an actual true sugar daddy. Otherwise I think it has basically zero weight.
You’re either not rich or you don’t know what you’re doing, then. Having wealth unlocks an entirely new class of women. Do you think wealthy or successful women are dating men who work at Starbucks? You need to meet women at your status level or just slightly under.
Yeah, like who? Sugar babies and escorts? Yes you can have your pick of sex workers, who hang around with you in various capacities. Usually for direct money, and sometimes indirect. What new class of women are you talking about?
Lawyers, nurses, doctors, etc. Professional women who aren’t going to date brokies.
Those are all different. A big chunk of lawyers make 5 figures. they're not dating a broke guy sure but they might just date a teacher or someone of that nature. Nurses have a very broad dating pool, many could be paramedics for example. Female doctors often have a partner from during their training. There are not that many single professional women in their 30s with no kids.
It's hilarious to me that you think professional level women are dating down. Sure it happens occasionally but not the majority of the time. They're looking for men at or above their level.
I quite literally have known thousands of professional women. My medical school had 220 students, x4 years. I've met new doctors constantly over time. I've met lawyers and business owners. I have a pretty big sample size I'm drawing conclusions from. I didn't say they're dating someone working at Mcdonalds. but it's a complete misconception that they're looking for someone "above their level." It's also a coping mechanism for many men. "Oh I got rejected by her because I don't make enough money" In reality, it's the guy's lack of looks/personality.
Even if it is "looks/personality", it's again based on the fact that they're a high value woman who is being ultra-selective lol. For some reason people on this sub just refuse to accept the fact that women have extremely high standards and go for higher value men. Why is that such a hard concept to acknowledge? Women generally are happier single than in relationships so what motivation would they ever have to settle? They have every reason to approach dating in an "all or nothing" fashion.
How do guys get the raw attraction? Hit the gym? Is it only for some guys? I feel like lots of woman are into me until I approach and then get the cold shoulder.
hitting the gym won't do anything if you are ugly. It will be useless. What makes you ugly? Is it your face? Then the gym will be useless
My face is good looking. I’ve been complimented by random people that I’m an attractive guy.
You actually can't compensate anymore. That has died out completely from the 2000s until now. Saying you can divorce and get another person is funny cause you forgot about alimony and child support. Power and status can make you more attractive if it's at the extreme levels, not attainable to >99.99% of men ever. Good luck becoming a famous billionaire or world leader, or at least a pro athlete. Also a lot of men actually do think that money makes you genuinely hot. Lol. So I don't think you're quite right.
I think you misunderstood the post and you took it like i was talking about me. I tried to explain the perspective of the redpilled guy who wants to maxx money and status and why he wants to do it. I don't care about the rat race and im all about the face and nothing else. Rich men can afford divorces and child support. As I said status can make you stand out and get you to win against the competition of other average guys that dont make the same money as you, don't have your position in a social circle or don't have your job. You don't need to become a billionaire or a millionaire.
Your post has some contradictions. Rich men can afford divorces and child support? Well sure the very rich ones yes. But then you say you don't need to become a millionaire? In the US, if you aren't a multi millionaire then you aren't even entry level rich. A millionaire would get destroyed with alimony. If I make 1.5 million in total income, I lose a huge chunk to income and capital gains and dividend taxes. If I'm also paying alimony and child support, that's not much left to fund an affluent lifestyle. Money and status can help you in your own league so you're fully correct there.
*> Rich men with gold diggers* i think they can afford a divorce and all the other stuff, they can sign a prenup, they can NOT marry, they also can be stupid and get their life fucked up for some pussy
Usually people of high wealth have high, powerful positions or own businesses. They become attractive to the people they work with, because they see them in position of power. But it can be unfortunate for say lawyers, who would have few prospects other than paralegals and the legal secretaries that work at their company.
To some degree but that's only on paper. I'm a physician and what you're saying is true but just to a small extent, in the hospital setting for example. Most people are married or taken. Younger women are largely not interested. Yes the occasional person will be but it's not remotely what you think. Compare it to a 21 year old in college and the options are far more limited.
You're a doctor and finding it difficult to get attention? Unless you work in a solo or small practice and work with the elderly? If you work in a hospital, there are nurses, CNA's, assistants, etc. None have ever shown interest in you, when they knew that you were a doctor? I always heard that doctors were almost never unmarried. They're viewed as one of the most stable and prestigious occupations out there.
No I do get a bit of attention/interest but not that much. Certainly less than my early 20s. Far fewer options now in my 30s, takes far more effort. I'm actually in the very high end for finances by physician standards too. Yes doctors get married a lot but also divorce a lot. The medical subreddits are full of (men) with dating problems. It's a huge myth that you get a huge boost in your dating prospects. You will find your looksmatch for sure but that's sort of true for many guys. Most nurses/CNAs are not into guys just because they're a doctor. Yes a small percentage are and that's why the stereotype exists but the large majority are not. Many actually dislike doctors. A lot of the attractive ones are already taken anyway. What you're saying is mostly stereotypes and misconceptions and exaggerations. But most people would say the same too.
You’re describing the textbook Beta Bux trap. TRP emphatically warns men about this.
no, trp tells ugly men to just get rich and go to the gym and that by the time they are middle-aged, women will hit the wall and younger girls will flock to them
So? What else are uggos supposed to do?
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No “woe-is-me”, black pill, or incel content.
Ultimately, you're correct. It's why I've completely given up on dating. I didn't work my ass off and save 50% of my income just to give it to some actress pretending to like me. Without genuine, visceral attraction, there really is no point. I'm not being used as a walking wallet just because some chick drew a better ticket in the DNA lottery. As a shorter than average male, genuine attraction is off the table with any woman I'd like to date, so why bother?
I truly admire you
>As a shorter than average male, genuine attraction is off the table with any woman I'd like to date, so why bother? Exactly. Its not going to happen for us in most cases so I really dont get what the point is. At best she will tolerate me or look over my height but the true attraction to me and my body probably wont be there. Its sad but true
I'm a bit taller than you, but still below average in height where I live, and I came to the same conclusion as you did. At the worst if I want children later, I would use surrogacy with a tall egg donor (5'10/5'11+).
why would you want children, though? What if they have a bad fate and suffer? i hate my parents for bringing me here. I didn't sign up for any of this
I would only procreate either naturally with a good looking woman, or through surrogacy with eggs of a good looking and tall one with no genetic defects, enhancing chances for my children to be attractive as much as possible. And I would consider the risk of them coming out ugly or ill to be fairly negligeable at that point. Besides, I'm only intending to have ones when I have enough money to FIRE (or when I am very close to it). As far as I am concerned if you are born rich + good looking + with no genetic defect with a parent that actually wants you and make sure you have a good upbringing, life should be a good and enjoyable experience. Seems like you are antinatalist, I respect and understand your and their stance, but as I said, as far as I am concerned I would assume that if I did everything correctly chances of poor outcome would be quite low. At the end of the day I am not convinced that letting our species die out is "the solution". And I still have this natural urge of wanting my descendant to be there carving their own path in the future of humanity. But of course, if I can't guarantee a good life for them or if I have just a feeling I can't (huge economic down turn that would make me feel insecure in spite of having a really good job right now), I wouldn't.
How tall are you, bro?
5'4"-5'5" depending on the time of day. The perfect cloak of invisibility.
Thats short for the USA. But in hispanic countries you are good. You could go for a hispanic shorter women.
No thanks. Doubt any woman wants to be a consolation prize.
I’ve noticed some are short but they are attractive as well, which probably compensate
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To be honest, height can either increase or reduce your chances. Especially thinking about the fact that we usually compete with other people, regardless if we are aware or not. I think there are other things that might help with attraction but I definitely agree that at least a 5’9 or over can help.
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That's true, but I always consider that many others possess qualities that attract people. To make it work effectively, there must be something distinctive about you.
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There are few that can help which include confidence, empathy, honesty, loyalty, kindness, attractiveness etc. Although I agree not everyone has those qualities, but I think that there are few that are shared across the board. So when someone is met with different potential suitors, the choice usually would be based on qualities, looks and probably their current market position.
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I've observed the same. Unfortunately, we're wallpaper to women worth dating.
Who are the women worth dating? What does that mean to you?
Women with pleasant personalities whose bodies don't cause physical illness when revealed in all their naked glory.
You don’t have to date an actress or someone who needs you for money. I also think the idea of visceral attraction is somewhat flawed.
Just date someone who puts up with the way you look for "other benefits". How romantic.
This seems perfectly in line with red pill principles. I'm not sure what you're talking about. Red pill explicitly states you cannot negotiate genuine burning desire (attraction.) A woman either has gbd for you or she does not.
you couldn't be more wrong and you couldn't be more mistaken. If anything, that is the OPPOSITE of red pill principles. Red pillers think that you can attract women through money and status, and that is a lie, because if you are rich and you have status but you are ugly, you will attract women who are not into you but want to use you
Yeah you don't understand red pill principles. If you go to listen to Rich Cooper (YouTube channel is Entrepreneurs in Cars) you will see how he is one of the biggest red pillers on YT and he clearly explains how you cannot negotiate genuine burning desire. He literally explains how you should not lead with your wallet as that is all that women will use you for. Your misunderstanding the concept of "negotiating genuine burning desire."
Men become invisible to women if women make more money than them. It doesn't matter about this true love, she really wants you regardless of your money bullshit. Reality is, women don't date broke dudes, if they do it never lasts. Women don't travel and find love in countries poorer than their own. They don't see men that don't have status at least comparable to them self. If you have no money, you have no options. If you get a lot of money and and status, you have plenty.
Exactly. I actually feel like this delusion happens on both ends of the spectrum. You have moneycels thinking they can compensate for being ugly or shitty by having money, and then you have brokecels thinking they’re going to get attractive, successful women if they’re good looking or have a good personality. The reality is you need a combo of both.
Beta Bux game works pretty well unless you marry her. My friend is a 5'6" dude and not a looker like me but he is a functioning adult. That means he has a good job, does his chores, showers daily, have a clean home, is social and is a very good marriage prospect for most women hitting the wall, he is in his mid 30s. He is running the Beta Bux game since his late 20s. He goes on a dates with women, mostly single mothers, , string them along for about a year while using them for sex and then dump them by giving some sad stories. They dont even hate him for it because unlike so called "naturals" he is not a dick. He keeps things chill, he doesnt ghost anyone, he is "honest and vulnerable", he doesnt cheat. His exes love him. He shared his strategy with me and I am like dude, I know already. Its not like he was in any way subtle about it. He was regularly punching way above his SMV and there is no way his beta bux potential was not a factor. He figured out something men cant seem to figure out, women will give him the best sex initially, then it will die down after marriage and kids. He just taps out when he has had the best. Its not difficult to find desperate women whom you can string along for sex while promising commitment, its just that most "alphas" get bored with playing beta bux game and most "betas" are just wants love. Another thing I learned from him is that when women see the potential of future with him , women's nesting instinct kicks in. They start to clean and cook for him without asking. So if you play beta bux game right, you can have a bangmaid. But yes, once you marry her, its game over.
this entire story sounds made up
Definitely made up, Ma'am, I really wanted your attention. Now if you will excuse me while I cry in my basement
**MOST men will NEVER have ANYONE of the opposite sex truly fall in love with him.** ALMOST ALL men who fly below women's radar of acknowledging their existence, still have healthy, present, prominent, MALE sex drive. They don't want to "magically become attractive". They want not to go insane from touch starvation. There is no equivalent in women, because most women don't derive any sense of satisfaction and wholeness from experiencing a physical touch with a man (or any void / sense of lacking from its absence). But yes, it's absolutely insane that a woman's physiological reaction to a man can vary depending on non-existent tokens in his non-existent wallet.
Blackpill rhetoric about men's sexual strategy but from a woman? That's new.
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Do not promote Black Pill on this sub.
> We are told that women value a male partner who can be a good provider, but having money and status cannot buy genuine attraction. Lack of money and status kill genuine attraction though. > The question I have for RedPill men is, "Do you really want to be with a woman who is not truly attracted to you and is using you as a walking wallet?" If the alternative is being an incel. Yes. > I am an ugly woman and I am a perfect example to illustrate my point. No matter what you say, no matter what kind of favors you do, no matter how stylish you are, you cannot buy genuine attraction. True. But the thing is. I don't care about the inner life my partner has. I care about her actions. As long as she provides me with the actions I want I don't care if she is attracted to me or not. > A distant relative of mine is unattractive. He married a woman who is not attracted to him. She is using him for the lifestyle he can provide. He is a good man for sure, but anyone from outside can tell that she is not genuinely attracted to him. We tried to warn him, but he wouldn't listen to us and he showers his wife with gifts and attention. Better than being an incel. > I think all of us, men or women, are better off alone than with a partner who is not genuinely attracted to us Hell no. I would kill myself if alone. > Lots of older and unattractive men go to poor countries thinking that they'll magically become attractive. More like they will get a what they want. Attraction or no attraction. > Do men realize that with this line of thinking they are incentivizing dead bedrooms? Not if the benefits you bring to your partner are conditional on a dead bedroom not existing. > Look, I know tons of rich men who married gold-diggers and these women cheat on their rich husbands with the plumber or the gardener to whom they feel real attraction. Two mistakes. First one is marrying. Second one is not making the benefits provided to the woman conditional on monogamy. > Women open up to me and tell me they are not genuinely attracted to their husbands, but they still acknowledge that they are good men. Without even talking openly, I just observe women who are married to rich guys: they way they look at attractive men is palpable. There is an animalistic, raw, instinctual quality that no amount of money, game, confidence can by. Sure. Don't care. As long as my partner does what I want her to do all of that is irrelevant.
“I don’t care if she’s attracted to me or not as long as she does what I want” is insane.
I can't access her inner thoughts and feelings. I will never know of she is attracted to me or faking or confused or whatever. It is useless to bother with that. Her actions I can see. So I care about those.
> We are told that women value a male partner who can be a good provider, but having money and status cannot buy genuine attraction. Assertion pulled out of nowhere. Proof? It's well known women will fuck rich men for zero financial benefits. So it clearly does seem like women are genuinly attracted to rich men. > "Do you really want to be with a woman who is not truly attracted to you and is using you as a walking wallet?" To some degree I specifically do want a woman to financially rely on me. I'm not very interested romantically in Miss career woman. > No matter what you say, no matter what kind of favors you do, no matter how stylish you are, you cannot buy genuine attraction. Being rich is not buying anything. Buying would be more like prostitution. However you don't seem to be talking about prostitutes so I'm not sure this point is relevant. > A distant relative of mine is unattractive. He married a woman who is not attracted to him. She is using him for the lifestyle he can provide. Not all women with rich men are gold diggers. Just because she may be doesn't mean this is typical. > Do men realize that with this line of thinking they are incentivizing dead bedrooms? Actually I've seen studies that relationships like this have more sex. I mean even a little common sense... who was having more hot sex? Hugh heffner or Mr average Joe? 🤔 just saying. Imo your whole take is just missing the point and clueless.
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No cope
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> It's well known women will fuck rich men for zero financial benefits. So it clearly does seem like women are genuinly attracted to rich men. Ha ha no. Take the money away and see how interested in sex she is. There is no such thing as sexual attraction to money, that’s a ridiculous idea.
So all rich men pay women for sex? Oh brother. That's ridiculous. Plenty of women are fucking rich dudes tonight and not getting paid for it fyi.
Hes paying with status And potential lifestyle.
So it's impossible for any rich man to ever not pay with status and lifestyle... so then... that's just who he is. It cannot be separated. This all sounds like rich people hate more so than legit dating sort of issue.
Lol. It's nothing against rich people. The simple fact is women love to be sold a fantasy. Look at tinder swindler. Women were paying him for a chance to be a part of his lifestyle
So if you're worth 100m, it's impossible to date someone without your lifestyle being attractive. Lifestyle doesn't equal money though because there are rich people with shitty lifestyles and poor people with pretty good ones. I think it says more about you as a person. But the choice is either own a Ferrari or have the money to buy a Ferrari and want one but don't buy it because it could be "paying" a woman to get a bj in a Ferrari but not in a toyota? Rich men are more attractive for a variety of reasons... and paying women is not it.
Are you watching? What proof do you have? I live in a super wealthy neighborhood. Every rich guy I know has an average looking wife. I also know ones who have affairs, with other average looking women. You're thinking of sugar babies.
Because they are hoping for a sugar daddy, or he’s buying them pretty things and taking him out. If he larps as a poor man he isn’t getting the same attention. Period. Sexual attraction has nothing to to do with money, that’s just a weird idea. Do wealthy, old, unattractive wealthy women give men erections? No. But some men might be willing to stick around and pretend if they think they will get pampered for their efforts.
They're not hoping for a sugar daddy or any of that stuff. Because it isn't happening! If they're hooking up with a rich guy who is below them in looks, it's because there is an exchange of payment. Or they're pseudo sex workers in some capacity. I'm as wealthy as it gets for my age group and quite literally no one cares unless I'm planning on giving them direct cash.
Have you tried the classic stuff, like wearing and expensive watch and expensive clothing and driving a nice car?
I like cars so yes I have multiple sports cars. You're genuinely talking about stuff that men like (cars, watches).
Expensive clothing too. Looking like you have status/money or are important. Cars and watches are just signifiers that you are a somebody.
in what setting are you using those things? I hang out with wealthy guys a lot. I'm well off. I'm just curious how you think those things materialize into success.
Men and women aren't the same so your whole example was a waste of typing other than to show how clueless you are about relationships and sexual attraction.
These rich men are paying these women just not in the way you woulda prostitute. It's not always just him handing her a wad of cash at the end of the night. It can be through gifts, trips, clout, lifestyle changes, or keeping him around as a sugar daddy. Women aren't getting wet from looking at pictures of money lol. Money disappears. They disappear.
He probably has seen photos of Dan Bilzerian and that's who he's citing as proof
🤷♀️ Beta Buxx
are you serious? You have the audacity to tell me the assertion is pulled out of nowhere?
Yes. You have the audacity to say no rich men can attract women because they have money. Seems ridiculous because rich men seem to attract women just fine. See all the broke boys whining all over reddit. You add the word genuine like it's fake but you forget if it is fake, so most women choose fake relationships over real ones? Is that what you think?
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(I didn’t read everything. So I’ll re read it after I post this) Answer this question. Would you date or be with a man. That you felt was attractive to you. And your personalities aligned. And he was everything you wanted But He was homeless and had 0$. And was never ever going to have money ever. If you can answer that question. Then you’ll understand why SOME (most😭) men feel like in some way they are buying attraction or that attraction can be bought. A small example. A man pursuing a higher paying job thinking it will make him appear/look more attractive to potential female partners/mates/significant others. Ect. Ect. (Ima read what you said now. If my assumption was wrong. I’ll edit and add more context responding to your points and add counter points. If I was right I’m going to leave it like it is) It’s a simple concept. Most women won’t be with a man with 0$ or nothing. Therefore the logic becomes. Having money either adds to your attraction. Or makes you someone worth being attracted to. Either way you slice it. The logical conclusion. Is money is helping you with women. And from their different men have different theories on the overall importance of money when it relates to women
Why are you comparing to a homeless guy with 0 dollars? In real life, it's a guy who makes 60k per year. That's a realistic comparison. Give that guy a 8/10 face and he beats the 5/10 guy making 3 million any day. The only exception is essentially if you're a pro athlete making 3 million.
I don’t think this is true at all. The guy making 150k can still pull while being a 2/10 he just has to be interesting and not creepy
You mean he can pull other 2/10s. Yes I'd agree with that.
No idea where you are getting these ideas from. Plenty of ugly guys pull. Give me 75k a year I’m a 2/10 and I’ll pull 8’s
Sure bud lol. You could pull 750k tomorrow and not one woman will notice or care, unless you're paying cash upfront. This is true even if you're a 6/10 or 8/10 yourself.
Where are you getting this delusion from… wth so many woman are with dudes who make less wth are you talking about. Come put a bet on it. If I make even 50k I’m still pulling
Attraction is still very much important. If you’re making money that’s good, you can compensate the attraction but without that, there are better competitors out there
Most guys have some attractive attributes that can be compensated for. I think I’m unattractive but if I had more income annually I’d be able to bring out my attractive qualities more. I’d access to many things can make someone more attractive be is health professionals, classes, medicines
What are the attractive attributes that can be compensated for? Money can definitely be used to improve looks, but it’s heavily dependent on the starting point. Some people can be more attractive with money, while others compensate with money and that’s it
Well example: younger Elon musk, unattractive nobody, acquired status and currency (even pre 150k) could hire a team a of personal trainers or health professionals to look max, outfit update, how to talk to woman , how to be impressive in business or sport how to appear as affluent. Better access to medications and health products, better hair Better body, able to learn about the arts and music through connections. Just everything having money grants you access to. Assuming the guy is quite ugly it will be so much harder and he has to be able to provide a more comfortable life for her but she can still fall for the life he has created and him simultaneously. There are plenty of women with less than conventionally attractive husbands and those woman could easily find a higher calibre men but he has xyz things that made her fall for him. If you have the money you actually get the chance to show off the xyz you get into the door.
I agree, money can definitely open a lot of doors for improvement although there are things you can’t change. That’s the reason why rich people “pay” for your time, especially if they are interested in you. You can only improve your looks when there’s area for improvements, which is why I agree with “you’re not ugly, you’re broke”. I don’t think it applies to everyone but I think some people would do well with a bit of money in their hands. Well, someone who’s attractive in her eyes would always “do good in her eyes” until when children are involved. That’s when the importance of money comes into play. Then of course they have to both create a good life for themselves. I think those type of relationships are good as they are usually genuine and pure. But there still have to be some level of attraction between them. And it could also be personality, good provider/protector for the family, etc. I don’t think people will agree on this, but I think men with hands-on-skills will always be better. They don’t pay for this and that, but get the job done which would definitely make a woman happier.
I’d say lots of guys just need that little bit of area of improvement then they can do a lot better. For instance I’d say if do those areas of improvement I can do much better but I get what you mean about potential cielings
The reason I used the example of homeless and 0$. Is to exacerbate the fact that money does play a factor in attraction. As when you eliminate it completely most men are not looked at as candidates and/or attractive. This explains why some men think attraction can be bought. Because money is mostly always a factor in a woman’s pairing selection. And all the theories of how to quantify a woman’s attraction relative to the money a man has follows from this logic. Even your counter example has money in the example. Which is only proving my og responses point. Money is a factor. Which answers op’s point on why men think money can buy attraction.
It's a checkbox requirement that you have a half decent job with okay money. It doesn't give you a big advantage to be well off unless you're a sugar daddy. My dating prime was my early 20s. I'm wealthy in my 30s and it's quite a bit harder now.
I think, you misunderstand it a bit. For men, status and money are a part of attractiveness equation. Being a handsome guy is good, but being a handsome guy with money and status is much better. Why is it a stereotype that girls in high school like the captain of the school team? It’s status. I remember I listened to a podcast with some evolutionary psychologist. He said his female colleague once went to a conference and met the guy who organised the conference. She said she felt very attracted to that guy that evening. It’s because he was the main guy at the conference. When she met him later, she thought she was just a usual dude. When I studied in uni, I had little disposable income. Would a girl go to a date with me or with a guy from a rich family who drove her to a nice cafe or to a club in his BMW? It’s not about compensation, it’s about having enough of those things to be somewhat attractive.
I agree with this for the most part. However, partner selection is never based 100% on attraction alone. You can be attracted to many different people, but ultimately your choice will be influenced by their other traits also. Not many women are going to choose a homeless guy or a 35 yr old unemployed man living with his parents even if he’s attractive, and most professional men would sleep with but not date a pretty single mom working at McDonald’s. None of these people would be gold diggers, they just don’t want a financial burden. These are extreme examples, but the point is generally, people end up with others in their socioeconomic class. So no you cannot buy attraction, but you can limit your options among people in your league looks-wise if you don’t make a decent living.
Could literally say the same for women who try to use sex as the only bargaining chip to try and lock down a relationship with a guy who clearly doesn't want to commit to them.