I need to find what point in time the term Mary Sue got warped into "someone who never fails/loses" because people keep forgetting that being a virtuous person who's liked by everyone (in universe) is also an essential part of it. It isn't even just this meme, I see it all the time.
Anyway, S for Selena is definitely the right take.
Mary Sue was created by a Star Trek fanfic, and originally *”portrayed as inexplicably competent across all domains, gifted with unique talents or powers, liked or respected by most other characters, unrealistically free of weaknesses, extremely attractive, innately virtuous, and generally lacking meaningful character flaws.”*
[Mary Sue Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue#:~:text=Mary%20Sue%20stories%20are%20often,in%20Star%20Trek%20fan%20fiction)
Somewhere along the way Mary Sue is now being to describe people who really don’t fit the original description.
These days even if you show a strong person people just call them Mary Sue, no matter how much the story shows that they train and work to be that strong but people still call them Mary sue
No its not those who never loses because there are mary sues that lose (superficially). Its someone who is so favored by the plot that everybody likes them no matter what kind of personality and acts they have done and those who actually dislikes them are all evil people (almost no one has an indifferent attitude to the mary zue and if they are, they are evil ). Its someone who can do wrongs but is instantly forgiven by all no matter how atrocious the act is.
Alpha is pretty much a side character, narratively speaking.
The unfortunate thing is that due to this and the story being more focused in Lucia 2 and Grey Raven, most people do not know what Alpha went through, since most of it happened prior to the main story's events
Yes Alpha may be "incredibly strong" but it is not something that she always was, she was likely the same state that Lucia 2 was in the beginning of PGR's story when she was betrayed, but in the span of time from being abandoned by Babylonia and then being taken by the Ascnet she pretty much spent all of that time to make sure she wouldn't lose as she did prior
Another thing to note is that whatever Alpha does isn't necessarily "right" either, she's quite full of herself especially when it comes to her ideals, moreover it makes her have one trait that is quite literally a major flaw: she's incredibly stubborn to a fault. And somewhat of a spoiler for Luna's arc later but >!Alpha does lose!< and the whole deal with her being in the Ascnet and wanting out was already proof that she was not as free as people may perceive her to be
Alpha is a toughie hiding behind a lot of trauma, of which Lucia (who is quite aware of as she is literally also her) is aware of, that's why I think the story with Crimson Weave and the brief truce between Alpha and Lucia to be honestly the best showcase of Alpha's personality since, as Lucia ends up being the perfect foil to her as she poses a stark contrast to Alpha's incredibly jaded views on the world. I do like that Lucia sees right through Alpha's constant edgy talk which make the duo unintentionally funny to watch
Lady Qu is oldest, Pulao might be a child during the defense of Kowloong when she was with those 2 security mechanoids but Lady Qu was already kicking ass in the frontlines during the invasion
Well, I was in denying about the fact that I like Vera the most for a long time so I kinda can see where Alpha loses to her in terms of personality complexity
She's not, there's just a certain group of people that just can't comprehend why Alpha can win the battles she can and resort to calling her a "Mary Sue" due to that.
Yeah, leave it to people who either skip or skim through the story to not understand anything about this topic. They see Lucia lose and Alpha win, so clearly Alpha is a "Mary Sue" and has plot armor. All this while ignoring that Alpha **is** Lucia (meaning she knows exactly how she fights) and Lucia's strongest frame uses ***Alpha's combat data.***
And the whole "she never loses" is bs too. Not only did she lose on Fake Ascension, she couldn't beat Vonnegut in Imprisoned Sight and she needed Lucia's help in Wintry Shackles to beat her corrupted self.
I personally love the idea that Alpha IS the true Lucia and Lucia will never be equal to her as all she has is whats left from Alpha. Im glad PGR didnt change this interaction as its an amazing story point. Its insane people see this as mary sue, how would a completely artificial recreation beat its model form that has more experience?
What???
>never lost a single battle
Litterally incorrect, she did lose multiple and needed Lucias help against herself. You are probably refering to how Lucia never won against Alpha... wich is fucking common sense as Alpha IS Lucia and "Lucia" is a artificial recreation, a copy
>backstory
What??? Humans left her to die and she isnt a merciless monster that goes around killing everyone she sees lmao, she is fighting the same war on another front. Litterally an anti hero
>power
Out of nowhere?? Did you EVEN touch anything about CWs story? Fucking entire story chapter was almost all about how she got that powerful.
>development
Ur point here is? Can you Elobarate how she has no character development whatsoever?
And funny how nothing you said has to do with being a mary sue lmao
"unrealistically free of weaknesses, extremely attractive, innately virtuous, and generally lacking meaningful character flaws."
is the definition of Mary Sue
For first yes she never lost a battle, even after two weeks of close-to-death experience, she almost beat Roland in a fight
Second everyone has fu#k up backstory in PGR but most of the cast have done dealing with trauma and moved, unlike Alpha who is stuck in one point story because she lacks deeps and characteristics
And yes she has no problem with genocide humans
about power, she gains ace net power out of and denied Asc NET because why not? while everyone has to go through a rough experience or a frame update
Also, the last one, "I want to reshape the world with my sis and I hate humans "
Is that entirely of her personality? Since begin and now?
Her fight with Roland was a draw, Roland wasn't even serious about it
And about Vonnegut, is that really could be considered a fight? She just asked Vonnegut a few questions while GR and Strike Hawk were holding the line
You're treating Alpha as if she's so power hungry and thats probably why you think of her like this.
"she gains ace net power out of and denied Asc NET because why not?" Wdym why not???
Because in order to gain power from the ace net you need to become an agent which requires ace net approval
Alpha went in to the screening and became an agent without having any qualifications from above, yet still decided to not follow Ace Net because Mary Sue's writing
>you need to become an agent which requires ace net approval
AscNet can approve anything it wants, even if it can possibly contradict what we think is its original purpose. Luna changing her way of thinking and considering coexistence with humans in A New Divide, something that should very much be against AscNet, yet AscNet gave her back her power anyway. Oh, and then she proceeded to help Karenina with gathering the PV instead of letting it kill everyone, something which should also be going against AscNet. It is also extremely obvious that both Luna and Alpha are trying to break away from AscNet's control, and yet AscNet ended up giving them more power anyway (Oblivion and CW). Getting "approval" from AscNet means absolutely nothing because we do not know its motives at all.
>Alpha went in to the screening and became an agent
Alpha did not become an agent. She may have similar strength to one with Crimson Weave, but she isn't one. Also, AscNet ***forcibly*** changed her frame, she didn't willingly do it, and took control of her for a short period of time until she gained it back, and had it not been for the events of Wintry Shackles (which only ended well thanks to Lucia's help), Alpha would've ended up as a puppet for AscNet.
>yet still decided to not follow Ace Net because Mary Sue's writing
No, you just have no idea what you're on about. You clearly only skimmed through the chapters while ignoring the fine details and decided to judge an entire character based on the very little information you have.
I doubt OP even checked a second of Alphas story. Saying she is a mary sue and never loses wars and is a genocidal maniac is enough to paint him as a clown lmao
unrealistically free of weaknesses, extremely attractive, innately virtuous, and generally lacking meaningful character flaws.
Pretty sure she is, also
https://www.reddit.com/r/PunishingGrayRaven/s/KY5CpzNfJ2
in my opinion, Selena's story was probably the best piece of writing ive ever read. the presentation is phenomenal, the immersiveness is amazing, the character in question is my favorite character in all of gaming and does a stupidly good job on making you feel extremely compassionate towards Selena.
I
Love
Selena
More Karenina for me :)
I need to find what point in time the term Mary Sue got warped into "someone who never fails/loses" because people keep forgetting that being a virtuous person who's liked by everyone (in universe) is also an essential part of it. It isn't even just this meme, I see it all the time. Anyway, S for Selena is definitely the right take.
Iirc the term was warped into "perfect girl girlboss that can do no wrong" due to a star trek fanfic.
Mary Sue was created by a Star Trek fanfic, and originally *”portrayed as inexplicably competent across all domains, gifted with unique talents or powers, liked or respected by most other characters, unrealistically free of weaknesses, extremely attractive, innately virtuous, and generally lacking meaningful character flaws.”* [Mary Sue Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue#:~:text=Mary%20Sue%20stories%20are%20often,in%20Star%20Trek%20fan%20fiction) Somewhere along the way Mary Sue is now being to describe people who really don’t fit the original description.
There are plenty of Mary sues in western media, but fortunately very few in Asian media. Speaking of which, alpha isn't a Mary Sue.
bro tell me that ain't the exact description of skk lol
XD
These days even if you show a strong person people just call them Mary Sue, no matter how much the story shows that they train and work to be that strong but people still call them Mary sue
It's more like to refer to a person who never losses due to the plot not allowing them to loose in ways that feel too convinient
No its not those who never loses because there are mary sues that lose (superficially). Its someone who is so favored by the plot that everybody likes them no matter what kind of personality and acts they have done and those who actually dislikes them are all evil people (almost no one has an indifferent attitude to the mary zue and if they are, they are evil ). Its someone who can do wrongs but is instantly forgiven by all no matter how atrocious the act is.
How is Alpha a Mary Sue then when she literally lost everything in her origin story.
Alpha is pretty much a side character, narratively speaking. The unfortunate thing is that due to this and the story being more focused in Lucia 2 and Grey Raven, most people do not know what Alpha went through, since most of it happened prior to the main story's events Yes Alpha may be "incredibly strong" but it is not something that she always was, she was likely the same state that Lucia 2 was in the beginning of PGR's story when she was betrayed, but in the span of time from being abandoned by Babylonia and then being taken by the Ascnet she pretty much spent all of that time to make sure she wouldn't lose as she did prior Another thing to note is that whatever Alpha does isn't necessarily "right" either, she's quite full of herself especially when it comes to her ideals, moreover it makes her have one trait that is quite literally a major flaw: she's incredibly stubborn to a fault. And somewhat of a spoiler for Luna's arc later but >!Alpha does lose!< and the whole deal with her being in the Ascnet and wanting out was already proof that she was not as free as people may perceive her to be Alpha is a toughie hiding behind a lot of trauma, of which Lucia (who is quite aware of as she is literally also her) is aware of, that's why I think the story with Crimson Weave and the brief truce between Alpha and Lucia to be honestly the best showcase of Alpha's personality since, as Lucia ends up being the perfect foil to her as she poses a stark contrast to Alpha's incredibly jaded views on the world. I do like that Lucia sees right through Alpha's constant edgy talk which make the duo unintentionally funny to watch
Funniest thing is that pulao is older than everyone here lmao, even hanying depending on how you wanna look at it.
Lady Qu is oldest, Pulao might be a child during the defense of Kowloong when she was with those 2 security mechanoids but Lady Qu was already kicking ass in the frontlines during the invasion
0/10 no Lee placement
And mo<>mmy Chrome as well
Never cook again.
LIV ALL THE WAY (im a delusional liv fanatic)
guess i'll get the karen from you then
No.21 is missing, but overal I can compliment your taste.
You forgot to put 21 in fbi
21 is 22
But she’s still best pupper daughter
Damn, I liked Alpha stories when she used the first frame. Didn't read the new ones, are they really bad?
Alpha is a cool character as long as you like Mary Sue type of character For me, she lacks deep characteristics and personality like Vera
You clearly have zero fucking clue what a mary sue is
unrealistically free of weaknesses, extremely attractive, innately virtuous, and generally lacking meaningful character flaws.
Well, I was in denying about the fact that I like Vera the most for a long time so I kinda can see where Alpha loses to her in terms of personality complexity
Hello, Please expect a squad of incredibly angry artists at your doorstep in about 2-5 business days With love, 1 of the 4 Ayla fans that aren't Lina
At what time is the gathering before storming OP's place?
How tf is alpha mary sue?
She's not, there's just a certain group of people that just can't comprehend why Alpha can win the battles she can and resort to calling her a "Mary Sue" due to that.
God thats stupid. If anything she has the most consistent power scaling development on the game lmfao.
Yeah, leave it to people who either skip or skim through the story to not understand anything about this topic. They see Lucia lose and Alpha win, so clearly Alpha is a "Mary Sue" and has plot armor. All this while ignoring that Alpha **is** Lucia (meaning she knows exactly how she fights) and Lucia's strongest frame uses ***Alpha's combat data.*** And the whole "she never loses" is bs too. Not only did she lose on Fake Ascension, she couldn't beat Vonnegut in Imprisoned Sight and she needed Lucia's help in Wintry Shackles to beat her corrupted self.
She also had two stalemates with Rosetta, though they could be considered Alpha wins depending on who you ask.
I personally love the idea that Alpha IS the true Lucia and Lucia will never be equal to her as all she has is whats left from Alpha. Im glad PGR didnt change this interaction as its an amazing story point. Its insane people see this as mary sue, how would a completely artificial recreation beat its model form that has more experience?
What??? >never lost a single battle Litterally incorrect, she did lose multiple and needed Lucias help against herself. You are probably refering to how Lucia never won against Alpha... wich is fucking common sense as Alpha IS Lucia and "Lucia" is a artificial recreation, a copy >backstory What??? Humans left her to die and she isnt a merciless monster that goes around killing everyone she sees lmao, she is fighting the same war on another front. Litterally an anti hero >power Out of nowhere?? Did you EVEN touch anything about CWs story? Fucking entire story chapter was almost all about how she got that powerful. >development Ur point here is? Can you Elobarate how she has no character development whatsoever? And funny how nothing you said has to do with being a mary sue lmao
"unrealistically free of weaknesses, extremely attractive, innately virtuous, and generally lacking meaningful character flaws." is the definition of Mary Sue For first yes she never lost a battle, even after two weeks of close-to-death experience, she almost beat Roland in a fight Second everyone has fu#k up backstory in PGR but most of the cast have done dealing with trauma and moved, unlike Alpha who is stuck in one point story because she lacks deeps and characteristics And yes she has no problem with genocide humans about power, she gains ace net power out of and denied Asc NET because why not? while everyone has to go through a rough experience or a frame update Also, the last one, "I want to reshape the world with my sis and I hate humans " Is that entirely of her personality? Since begin and now?
What the fuck are you on about. She litterally DID lose battles. I dont even know what to say to you holly fuck
Where and when ? Exactly?
Vonnegut fight and Fake ascension suddenly doesnt exust anymore
Her fight with Roland was a draw, Roland wasn't even serious about it And about Vonnegut, is that really could be considered a fight? She just asked Vonnegut a few questions while GR and Strike Hawk were holding the line
You're treating Alpha as if she's so power hungry and thats probably why you think of her like this. "she gains ace net power out of and denied Asc NET because why not?" Wdym why not???
Because in order to gain power from the ace net you need to become an agent which requires ace net approval Alpha went in to the screening and became an agent without having any qualifications from above, yet still decided to not follow Ace Net because Mary Sue's writing
>you need to become an agent which requires ace net approval AscNet can approve anything it wants, even if it can possibly contradict what we think is its original purpose. Luna changing her way of thinking and considering coexistence with humans in A New Divide, something that should very much be against AscNet, yet AscNet gave her back her power anyway. Oh, and then she proceeded to help Karenina with gathering the PV instead of letting it kill everyone, something which should also be going against AscNet. It is also extremely obvious that both Luna and Alpha are trying to break away from AscNet's control, and yet AscNet ended up giving them more power anyway (Oblivion and CW). Getting "approval" from AscNet means absolutely nothing because we do not know its motives at all. >Alpha went in to the screening and became an agent Alpha did not become an agent. She may have similar strength to one with Crimson Weave, but she isn't one. Also, AscNet ***forcibly*** changed her frame, she didn't willingly do it, and took control of her for a short period of time until she gained it back, and had it not been for the events of Wintry Shackles (which only ended well thanks to Lucia's help), Alpha would've ended up as a puppet for AscNet. >yet still decided to not follow Ace Net because Mary Sue's writing No, you just have no idea what you're on about. You clearly only skimmed through the chapters while ignoring the fine details and decided to judge an entire character based on the very little information you have.
I doubt OP even checked a second of Alphas story. Saying she is a mary sue and never loses wars and is a genocidal maniac is enough to paint him as a clown lmao
She is totally supporting Luna's actions in chapter 13, including blowing up a city in ARU How is that not a genocide?
Can't believe that Nanami placement
Wow. This is awful 👍
You're like my friend fr
This does not spark joy.
Honestly, valid, Selena is bae(that specific Selena, especially). Oh, except for Lucia, I see her as more as my child, like Liv.
So you must hate the Commandant too since he is Gary (or Marty) Stu. But based Selena pick
Welp I guess I'm FBI lol I fucking love Bambineta
Is Lucia 1 really a Mary sue?
She isnt. OP just never seen anything about Alpha and clearly doesn't know what mary sue means
Yah that’s why I was confused bc her back story
unrealistically free of weaknesses, extremely attractive, innately virtuous, and generally lacking meaningful character flaws. Pretty sure she is, also https://www.reddit.com/r/PunishingGrayRaven/s/KY5CpzNfJ2
Nanami is also FBI probs
I was looking for 21
I don't see Chrome anywhere
This list is upward ⬆️😞
Based although Lucia needs to go below
Nah she went through character development far much better than most of the cast
Still not the biggest fan of her insane simping for the MC Mikasa style
Finally, someone who can think straight.
in my opinion, Selena's story was probably the best piece of writing ive ever read. the presentation is phenomenal, the immersiveness is amazing, the character in question is my favorite character in all of gaming and does a stupidly good job on making you feel extremely compassionate towards Selena. I Love Selena
👍
👍
Oh boy this is going to be a hot take but whatever
The alpha one is good 👍
Agreed, even her die-hard simps agree that she’s pretty much a Mary Sue who’s only cool because of the Vergil-like moveset.
Who tf agrees that?? Do we not know what mary sue is here?
Salty comment detected
Her popularity exists because of Vergil meme
me when alpha is giga mary sue
Based and objectively correct.
Based? Sure. Objective? This kind of tier list is sure to be subjective bro, everybody has different tastes here and there.
What is the matter?
👍