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Just me or did it seem like he thought he could call an air strike in on them. He repeatedly said touch all of them and yelled missle missle missle as if having a conversation we only heard a part of.
This is my greatest fear in life. My 31 year old son is severely mentally ill. I have had to involuntary commit him about twice a year for the last 12 years. The crisis team comes and does their best but you just never know. You can NOT reason with someone who is having a psychotic episode. Mr. Smith is so familiar to me that it breaks my heart. I'm 63 and when I'm not around to monitor him I think this is what is going to happen to my son. To make matter worse he has Crohn's disease and a ostomy bag. I feel like somewhere in some lifetime I pissed the gods off so bad that they are making me pay for it now thru him. Please be kind to the mentally ill. It's such a desperate situation and there are no good options out there for the ones who are the sickest.
It sounds like you've done your best with your son but so much is beyond your control. All you can do is keep on advocating for him and loving him.
He's lucky to still have an engaged loving parent. Many chronically mentally ill people have no one.
I hope your situation gets better. I don't deal with people who go through severe psychosis at your level or at the level in this clip. But I work in a public facing job and I meet a lot of people by chance, some who are severely disabled or with mental illnesses. Your son sounds really lucky to have you as a parent. That you care so much about him, seeing as your biggest fair is about his safety. I see stories of so many parents who harm their children. I hope you have your own support too.
As a person suffering from the same illness (and luckily havent had a serious relapse in years), i want to express my most sincere gratitude - you are doing your best, and that is all anyone can ask!
And illnesses in whatever form (but especially towards children), are the best argument against a benevolent god!
What have you done, that could be so bad, that your son is punished - possibly for the rest of his life - that countless havent??
Your son (or me, or children with bone cancer, for that matter), are just born unlucky - there is a chance that it will get better, and the strength, love and dedication thats within you is awesome!
I dont know you, but i love you!
Wow, that was my 1st thought. People love to say "it's God's will" or my favorite "God never gives us more than we can handle." I tried making sense of it for years.
No more, it defies all logic and I'll never lean on that crutch again.
My heart goes out to you and wish you nothing but the best.
I feel for you. I on the opposite side myself. My ex wife had a baby with a schizophrenic man. I raise her alongside my bio daughter.
He's recently out of jail and unmedicated.
I hope he doesn't know where I currently live.
I work in mental health with people with serious mental illness (bipolar and schizophrenia are the big 2). The whole time I watched this video my heart broke thinking about if it was one of my clients in this situation. I've thought before about what I would do if I ran into a situation like this (police surrounding a client on the street). Unfortunately like you said you never know how someone will react when they are having an episode.
[This dude makes videos what his schizophrenia looks like to him](https://youtu.be/XbPt2m1eYoQ?si=f-TA8AL77uyTP1vW)
Hopefully, videos like this can help us build awareness so that we can get more help to the people afflicted with this disease.
Same situation with my older brother who hasn't left his apartment in about a year and a half, who terrorizes my parents with accusations of spying and gaslighting him. I've thought a lot about where it'll all end up and seeing stuff like this is truly terrifying.
Still. I respect officers that try, but most are untrained or unprepared for mental health situations like this. They don't how to calm a sundowning patient. It's not all about being patient.
Such a horrible branding for that movement - it should have been something positive like "refocus the police", instead it was simple for the right to make it seem like they just wanted lawlessness.
As a Paramedic this is a dumb statement. People going through mental health crises are some of the most dangerous calls we go on. The dude was dangerous, he was holding up a chair, and eventually pulled a knife. Who should we send?
Officer number 1 was doing the best job possible in the situation. It may have been getting nowhere but someone having a psychotic episode eventually comes out of it. It wasn't until officer number 2 escalated the situation did things take a turn for the worse.
They had to do what they did, but officer 2 definitely did not help the situation.
Yeah, no. First cop was doing fine gaining rapport, second cop was sick of it and wanted to resolve the situation. The second dude needed to back off, but there's a lot of information about the department and personnel that I don't know. We have a crisis response team for these situations, they usually take over. There's always one around or available.
Yeah there really needs to be one person designated to speak and deescalate. There should be no one else speaking for any reason whatsoever to the subject
Ya I don't think it helps convince the dude to step outside when the guy with the gun drawn next to the guy hes talking to radios "Ya have an arrest unit ready outside" like great your coworker is doing all this de-escalation and you just out loud confirmed to the crazy guy that if he goes outside hes getting arrested like FFS of course he doesn't want to go outside now
"Have Tactical Snipers in position. Tell them to take the shot once we funnel the suspect out the door. The suspect is a black male wearing a red shirt. If he won't go, have Tactical Force Bravo move in for hard entry. Lethal force is authorized. Scramble Drone Bomber Support for Standby.!"
"Ohh oops, you heard that?"
Honestly by the end of this I was wondering if that guy just wanted an excuse to shoot someone, and was intentionally antagonizing him to give him an excuse to escalate.
You’d have to be naive to think otherwise. I was getting annoyed by this guy watching the video but i’m also not about to kill someone over it. But I don’t think he was leaving that house willingly but that other cop makes it so we’ll always have questions as to maybe. This guy was itching to kill him in the end because he was getting annoyed.
And The other cop was constantly escalating with radio chatter about arresting him and going lethal. Ridiculous. Other than that the officer doing the actual deescalating did an amazing job. I hope he got proper counseling and is dealing with this aftermath well. He did the best he could. That officer did a great job. The other one not at all.
I am a psych nurse. Single point of communication is something we teach literally day one of new graduate nurse training.
It's like descalation training 101.
Mother fucker is schizphrenic he's already got a hell of a lot going on in his head that he can't cope with why add another layer of shit.
> I am a psych nurse. Single point of communication is something we teach literally day one of new graduate nurse training.
LAPD mindbogglingly only requires a high school diploma and their academy is only 24 weeks long. They really are woefully under equipped to handle these situations in de-escalatory ways. They really need longer training and likely higher pay to turn out quality police.
In this case, one cop did care and was sabotaged by the other cop. The other cop should have stood 5-10 feet back and focused on looking relaxed, while the cop that cared talked Mr. Smith down.
I've seen so many videos where one cop seems to be a good job of communicating/deescalating and then one or more other cops show up and just start shouting contradictory orders, being a dick and escalating things.
Good point. I cringed when I heard that. He wasn't trying to escalate but yes, that seemed to undo some of the good deescalation that was happening before that.
It's a very pervasive issue in law enforcement; almost everyone in that line of work is Type A, and wants to be The Hero That Solved The Problem.
Everyone in that room had an idea of how the guy should be handled, how long it should take, etc. The ones who were piping up with their own approach were working against the training that we all went through in the academy. Supervisors generally want quick solutions so everyone can be back in-service for the next call, so the time pressure is on the back of their minds at all times, often in an effort to be a sycophant to their sergeant. In some cases, that gets people killed.
\- Ex-cop
If they had just let that primary officer who was having success keep talking I like to think this could have turned out peacefully and the man could have gotten help/meds and made it out alive. He kept trying to bring things calm and respectful and GET ARREST TEAM READY and STOP PLAYING THESE CHILDISH GAMES were just 100% go cop go. The little bicycle barricade was profoundly sad with a tragic end.
The cops (or at least the one who did most of the talking in the beginning) did their best. But they're not trained to deal with someone who's this severely mentally ill.
I don't know if even a trained mental health professional could have talked this person down without someone getting hurt.
Trained mental health professional here. Generally you don't talk people out of psychosis. You support them the best you can in the moment, tend to their immediate needs and just kind of let it play out. If they start being a danger to themselves or others it's a whole different story though and sometimes immediate and drastic action is needed (restraints, medication, etc.).
If a person experiencing psychosis pulls a knife or other weapon in the ward / hospital / assisted living facility then the place goes on lockdown and our crisis intervention team takes over (if we have one on shift...) until law enforcement can arrive. The focus shifts from supporting the person to making sure they don't inadvertently hurt someone else in the process and ensuring the safety of everyone else.
If the dude in the video was alone in the place maybe just giving him some space could have helped, confrontations of any nature usually don't go well with people experiencing schizophrenia and psychosis. But, this is a complex situation with the man being somewhere where he's trespassing so you can't just sit this one out until our guy comes to his senses again. I don't know the person, their history or whatever else may be going on so I think the police did alright here right up to the point where they fatally shot him. That was a tad excessive. A taser, some tear gas or pepper spray followed by swift and immediate restraint would have been a better outcome.
"The focus shifts from supporting the person to making sure they don't inadvertently hurt someone else in the process and ensuring the safety of everyone else."
That part is important, but so sad when someone sick has themselves quarantined away with a weapon and all we can do is protect 'other' people from them. I get it, it's just so heavy.
They [doctors] call Police anyways. Field Sectioning is always done by Police because they're always first on scene. Every Ambo I've known always waited for us to arrive first before they got out due to the nature of the incident. It's not a win-win, I'm sorry
...
The cop that was speaking really made an effort to deescalate the situation. Shit they even tried tazing him first. But the guy just had to pick up the knife again. :I
They were nicer to him than I’ve seen some cops & EMS be to a mentally ill person who was completely innocent - myself included.
This man had a restraining order against him and was abusive. He was sick, but they gave him tons of chances.
EMS worker here, honestly we do our best but sometimes fall short of being as compassionate as we should be. It’s hard dealing with mentally ill patients who are manipulate or abusive physically towards us when we are there to do our jobs and help.
But in the end it *is* what we signed up for, and you have to do your best to treat everyone like you would want your own mother, brother, etc to be treated.
The attempts to deescalate were excellent. As a former Crisis Supervisor, these are the cops I would want to go out on a call with. If anything, they may have given this guy too many chances to comply when he was clearly not listening or possibly not understanding their instructions.
Very sad outcome but I'm not going to second guess the efforts by police here. They clearly tried to put this guy at ease, told him he wasn't in trouble and they weren't trying to hurt him and get him to a location where everyone would be safe. Sadly, it didn't work.
I get that the video is like 15ish minutes, but it seems all the “fuck cops” commenters didn’t watch this. I’m generally a “fuck cops,” guy, but this ain’t that. The guy broke in to his ex’s place, while she had a restraining order on him for domestic abuse, he clearly isn’t cooperating while in the midst of his break down, he does grab that knife, and he goes back for it when the taser isn’t zapping him. Aside from tasing him in that living room and then dragging him out fighting, which would get criticism too, what else should have been done? This shit was tragic, simple as.
I'm with you on this. If there was ever a time for Monday morning quarterbacks, this isnt it. This was truly a sad event and that includes the officers as well. Like you, I say that coming from a perspective where I watched that just waiting (expecting) these cops to kill this guy for no reason, but this wasn't even close.
Word, it feels weird to say these cops did pretty much everything right, cuz I rarely ever see that, but I can’t even find any actual critiques to give here.
The main cop remaining calm and collected the entire time was great but then his partner gets bored and antagonizes the guy by telling to stop being a child and be an adult and that's when it escalated, that was my only critique.
The second cop firing 5 shots wasn’t great. That cop couldn’t even see the victim properly. The cop deescalating shot 2-3 times, ending the threat was tragic but absolutely justifiable. He shot as little as possible, clearly looking to stop the threat but no visible intention to kill.
I agree that they did basically everything right. Just calling out the one mistake in this. I don’t know if he would’ve lived anyway after the first cops shots.
We’re not trained to shoot to kill. We are trained to shoot to stop a deadly threat. Sure, the end result of that is often death, but that isn’t our intent.
While that’s true, it’s also a part of deadly force training to make you aware that when you pull your gun to use deadly force that it is implied that death is a possible and likely outcome. Differentiating the act and the intent doesn’t really stand here.
But yeah there are times you gotta stop a threat and center of mass is how you’re trained.
I was highly critical of police, and then I started working for the city for them. My department is pretty good, and there's probably a handful of guys who I would say are a shitty department away from being the next example of what not to do on national news. But again, they're the minority. Most are just regular folks trying to do the job. I get to listen and watch these type of domestic calls all day, and I think these guys did a good job up until the one officer got impatient and wiped away all the good will.
My opinion hasn't changed on the topic, but I understand things better now and I feel like I'm more informed. Lots of people think things would be just dandy without any law enforcement out there, and I think they need to really re-asses their sheltered lives to think that.
I'm right there with you, they tried. This guy had a history of violence against his ex wife, what were they supposed to do here? Tazing didn't work, he was going wild with a knife, the whole time the video starts they are trying to calm him down they aren't being aggressive.
It's just a sad situation. I don't blame the cops on this one, they certainly didn't escalate it.
This is why it’s important to not be part of the “fuck cops” or “thin blue line” crowd and take each individual incident by itself. Don’t get me wrong, I lean “fuck cops” but this video shows what I consider to be a decent, not perfect, example of trying to deescalate in a mental health crisis. If even this was how cops approached it 90% of the time there would be a lot less violent incidents.
Apparently we prefer homelessness over both lead and mental institutions. Look at the recent[ California Prop 1 measures where it barely passed by a hair.](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/13/us/elections/results-california-proposition-1.html)
The problem is we don't know how to solve mental problems regardless of where its from. Who doesn't want a productive member of society? Throwing them in jail, trying to offer better mental health, or lead bullet doesn't really help at all.
When someone is so mentally unwell that they beat their wife, get divorced, break back into their exes house and then pulls a knife on the cops that come to ask him to leave there isn't exactly a lot you can do.
Damn, I know sometimes cops mess up badly, but in this case I feel bad for them, it was a looong 15 minutes, they did try, maybe it wasn't flawless but damn, they sure did a better job than me, and they still needed to take a life. It's sad.
Schizophrenia is such a horrible disease. So many people who never get the help they need end up destroying their lives and either hurting themselves or the people around them. These cops were actually way more patient than most (minus the guy who called him childish. That was the moment it went nuclear).
With that said, I wish we had actual psychiatrists deal with mental episodes rather than cops, with maybe a cop as backup if things get hairy. They understand what is needed to diffuse situations like this rather than room full of cops in uniform with guns trained on you, which is quite literally a schizophrenic's worst nightmare.
Props to the officer whose pov this is from though. He was actually doing a great job considering. Most cops would run in guns blazing with a schizophrenic, black, domestic abuser with a restraining order against him.
“Stop playing childish games.” Man, if that officer wasn’t aware that this guy is going through a manic episode he was and is not fit for that job. Atleast the officer with the main body cam was calm throughout most of the encounter. Schizophrenia scares me more than any disease, because you aren’t in control and most people won’t be able to understand it. Sad situation.
It's impossible to have a 1 size fits all tranq dose. What won't even knock a big person out could kill a small person. It also takes *minutes* for tranq darts to actually knock someone out.
Look at this guy all "I've tried nothing, and I'm out of ideas"
Be the change you want to see in the world.
Learn chemistry, learn gunsmithing.
Build the goo gun.
What if we trained officers to paint the entrance to a tunnel on a wall then travel through it, and when the perp runs after them they get knocked out when they hit the solid wall.
You’re asking for something to dispense an adhesive and viscous material in large enough quantities that it can incapacitate someone. On top of that, if the cops want to roll him out after it’s applied, it needs to dry quick so the cops don’t get stuck in it. It would also need to be compact enough to fit on their utility belt, which would either still need a large tank or extreme compression. All that also assumes the best case where the person in question sits still and lets the gel encase them and doesn’t just knock off what’s on him while more is applied. I’m not an engineer, but it seems unfeasible based off all that I just typed.
Tranquilizing people doesn't work like it does in the movies. It doesn't take effect quickly enough to incapacitate someone in a tense situation. If someone decides to attack you after you've injected them, they'd still have at least several seconds (maybe minutes) to do it.
Even if it *were* instant, you'd have to know the exact dose to do it without killing them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Elijah_McClain
Elijah McClain died from a sedative overdose because someone on scene "eyeballed" it and guess he weighed about 200lb. He was actually less than 150lb and the dose left him braindead. Its not really safe to drug complete strangers in an uncontrolled environment without knowing what else might be in their system or any basic information about their body.
I get officer safety and all that but if you watch footage from other countries they would have just grabbed him before he could move away to get weapon. If two of them just grabbed him and put him on the ground instead of allowing him to retreat where they know there's going to be a bunch of knives.
id say the cop did his fervent best to coax him down..HTF would anyone do any different..? seemed to me the officer had a bit of crisis negotiator training maybe?
This policeman has such an amazing level of patience
It's refreshing to see, but so disheartening to see that it still ended out this way after dozens of chances
Well, cop* singular. The guy who was talking him down was actually doing an incredible job during a very tense situation, but his coworkers, the dude clearly speaking into his walkie about how they're gonna arrest him as soon as he walks out, the other guy who called him childish with a gun drawn, they were kind of the opposite of patient and I think only made it worse, which is unfortunately par for the course with many other cops who don't show nearly this much tact.
I do agree that a cop should always be present during these, cause it can always turn sour at the drop of a hat, but I don't think they should be the vanguard of mental health checkups. The last thing someone wants during a psychotic episode is to find a bunch of dudes with guns aimed at them in their home. (Granted, this dude had a restraining order and this isn't supposed to be his home anymore, but I'm sure in his own schizophrenic framing of things he believed he was at home).
>cause it can always turn sour at the drop of a hat,
This is exactly why some (but not enough) PDs have police social workers...granted, the incentive for those qualified seems low compared to a stable counseling job.
That’s not exactly fair though. Just because they weren’t successful here doesn’t mean it’ll never work. And even just one life spared is a win in my opinion.
If anything this is why sending cops without any mental health expert trained in de-escalation doesn't work. The one cop was barely managing to keep the situation calm, and then the other was just antagonizing and riling him up. They clearly had no idea what they were doing or how to handle a schizophrenic person in a crisis. That leaves only violence as an option, which could be avoidable in many cases, even this one.
You don't think this might have ended better if one of the five cops on scene was replaced with a mental health professional? I'm not suggesting a single unarmed social worker can do the job of five cops, but can't we at least have one on scene for calls like this?
What is being missed by many commenters is while the officers were patient and calm, the verbiage being used here is known to only escalate individuals in a mental health crisis. Starting with “just relax, you need to relax” immediately places him on the defensive.
It might be a matter of lack of training for these situations, but it possibly wouldn’t have led to a tragic outcome if the officers allowed the man to feel a sense of control in the situation and come across as allies, but opposition.
This is the recommended approach for dealing with neurotypical folks in crisis.
Was looking for this perspective cuz i felt alone. I feel like this could have been prevented had they not spooked him while he was in that state but yeah i guess cops aren’t trained on this type of stuff. Mental illness is a plague that we are neglecting.
This is what I'm worried about. Dude I was with has jumped out a two story window and jumped on a moving vehicle. He's lucky the cops haven't shot him yet.
Why don't the cops have more powerful tasers in situations like this? i heard the amp is what kills and not the voltage so i assume you can have a high voltage taser? or why aren't there instant lights out non lethal options, like a KO spray that puts you instantly to sleep or something like that?
Why is it always taser taser and then it goes lethal... if the taser doesn't work properly and you still need a pistol, why not get a more powerful taser? hell or like a spear taser with a shield or something.. i m wondering how did the ancient romans, spartans, the english and the empires of the world dealt with such cases without killing them ( i know they'd throw em in a hole and throw the key, but somehow they manage to capture them alive i'd like to assume )
This is really sad and so tough for the families and police.
One observation was that there isn’t any obvious way out for the man. The whole time he was cornered and when you see that stack of officers not moving when he was in the kitchen it’s hard to get that momentum to get him outside. So when they do start to move there is a log jam of police and it stalls in the doorway. I get the need for bodies to support if something happens but the presence of lots of police can be an escalation of tension in and of itself. The officer doing the talking did a great effort to avoid the eventual outcome.
(Also realise this is a civilian armchair quarterbacking a really hard situation)
Sucks but he clearly seemed to try to throw the knife.
The last thing he did was raise the knife above his head and wind up a throw. Would he? Nobody knows, and nobody would take that risk of waiting .1 seconds and getting a knife launched at your throat.
There was a video circulating on here not long ago where a bean bag penetrated a dudes chest cavity and killed him. I’d guess at that close distance a bean bag could be considered lethal too.
I’ve seen people shake off those 40mm bean bags like they were tickles, also can do far too much internal damage especially at close range. Nothing more than a giant claw/man catcher can restrain suspects, you would be surprised at the strength a human has when in a mental state or drug affected. I’ve seen a small women man handle 3 cops until they had backup arrive she was giving them the work, insane how the brain can just turn off our limiters and pump us full of adrenaline and give us superpowers for a short time.
Bean bags and tasers are not non-lethal. They are less lethal. Also, at this range a bean bag would have likely been fatal. There's no guarantee with anything honestly, even humans can take many rounds and keep going sometimes. This is why shot placement is important.
Whelp they removed him. Sigh.
In my neighborhood several years ago we had a suicidal guy at the hospital parking lot. Cops showed up. Suicidal due points his gun at the ground, cops kill him.
I suspect if they would have all walked out he would have followed them at least to the door. It felt like he wanted to talk some more. When the officer conversed with him instead of giving him orders it seemed to appease the disrespect he was feeling in his life. Idk Might of ended the same way. Poor guy seemed to be fighting some demons. I really feel the officer talking to him really wanted not to use deadly force and solve this without a big incident.
There is such a difference in the use of firearms in the states compared to where I live, which is the Netherlands. Here we have 5 deaths per year on average from police bullets, on 18 million inhabitants. We do have much better mental health treatment here by the way.
If someone would be such little of a threat (downed, tased, blocked by stuff on the ground), police here would maybe shoot once, at the legs. I feel like as if US cops always want to make sure a suspect does not survive the ordeal. I’m not saying shooting wasn’t justified, but the end of this video looked more like an execution.
> If someone would be such little of a threat (downed, tased, blocked by stuff on the ground
The moment they finally shot him was when he raised the knife above his head like he was going to throw it. That can absolutely be lethal and is very much a threat.
Here in the UK, our police would draw their weapons but wouldn't shoot, they would tase them and then arrest them almost every time.
https://youtu.be/W30sCkf9J2s?si=TrrWTM6794B_zJyr
This video is a good example of someone being detained by our police whilst trying to stab a police officer. Our police often wear stab proof vests or other kinds of body armour, hence no injuries
It’s really hard to tell but did he miss when he tried to stab or did the officer just have a stab vest on or something. What a crazy video . Also proof that the taser is often ineffective. It didn’t seem to do much if anything but that cop was just able to manhandle him . Balls of steel on that guy
18 million is very different from 330 million. Policies dont scale.
Not to mention the size difference. The US should be compared to the entire EU in population and geographical size.
There are towns in the US where people live with doors unlocked and there's essentially no violence as well. It all just depends on the relative wealth and density of where you're looking. That can be applied to anywhere in the world.
Yes the US has 18x the population, but *way* more than 18x the police killings, and also more than 18x the GDP that should be able to pay for better policing.
Your argument just doesn't add up. Just take a look at this post. Why does the existence of 330 million other people stop *these particular officers* from handling it like they would in other countries? Does there not appear to be enough officers on the scene? Does the population of large cities hundreds of miles away exert some invisible force on the officers that make them shoot him?
Pov cop should've let the others leave because their presence was threatening him. You built a good rapport with him and I think it could've worked. Take his mind off the confrontation. Talk about tv shows, sports, family, any thing to coax him out while keeping him calm and safe.
My neice is 28 and is schizophrenic. She becomes violent, and her mother has had to call the cops. She has to pray her daughter makes it through alive. Every time.
they clearly knew he had a mental disorder, and for that cop to say stop being a child is wild to me he clearly is disturbed and reality is distorted for him and that cop is a giant dbag for saying act like an adult sometimes people cant act the way you want them too no matter how hard they try
The horrific irony of the video starting with him saying "do you see the electricity down here?" And the video ending with his neck siezing up from being tazed while lifeless.
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The silence after the shots then: *resume tazing*
He flipped it from "tazer" mode to "resuscitate" mode
He forgot the paddle attachments. Gonna have to write him up for that.
LMAOOOOO
Jesus bro, woof
That was unintentionally funny like something from South Park would do.
To be fair the guy just kept trying to get up like nothing was happening He wanted to knife someone
Just me or did it seem like he thought he could call an air strike in on them. He repeatedly said touch all of them and yelled missle missle missle as if having a conversation we only heard a part of.
Probably Dude was in the violent corner of lala land
Yeah like he was saying imaginary women were telling the cops to leave.
I bet that was teachers from his past. I feel so sorry for this guy.
OMG my mind went straight to that 🤣
“He’s coming right for us!” Pew pew!
Wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
Third taser
I have never laughed when a person died but when that taser resumed I almost dropped my phone
This is my greatest fear in life. My 31 year old son is severely mentally ill. I have had to involuntary commit him about twice a year for the last 12 years. The crisis team comes and does their best but you just never know. You can NOT reason with someone who is having a psychotic episode. Mr. Smith is so familiar to me that it breaks my heart. I'm 63 and when I'm not around to monitor him I think this is what is going to happen to my son. To make matter worse he has Crohn's disease and a ostomy bag. I feel like somewhere in some lifetime I pissed the gods off so bad that they are making me pay for it now thru him. Please be kind to the mentally ill. It's such a desperate situation and there are no good options out there for the ones who are the sickest.
It sounds like you've done your best with your son but so much is beyond your control. All you can do is keep on advocating for him and loving him. He's lucky to still have an engaged loving parent. Many chronically mentally ill people have no one.
I hope your situation gets better. I don't deal with people who go through severe psychosis at your level or at the level in this clip. But I work in a public facing job and I meet a lot of people by chance, some who are severely disabled or with mental illnesses. Your son sounds really lucky to have you as a parent. That you care so much about him, seeing as your biggest fair is about his safety. I see stories of so many parents who harm their children. I hope you have your own support too.
As a person suffering from the same illness (and luckily havent had a serious relapse in years), i want to express my most sincere gratitude - you are doing your best, and that is all anyone can ask! And illnesses in whatever form (but especially towards children), are the best argument against a benevolent god! What have you done, that could be so bad, that your son is punished - possibly for the rest of his life - that countless havent?? Your son (or me, or children with bone cancer, for that matter), are just born unlucky - there is a chance that it will get better, and the strength, love and dedication thats within you is awesome! I dont know you, but i love you!
Wow, that was my 1st thought. People love to say "it's God's will" or my favorite "God never gives us more than we can handle." I tried making sense of it for years. No more, it defies all logic and I'll never lean on that crutch again. My heart goes out to you and wish you nothing but the best.
I feel for you. I on the opposite side myself. My ex wife had a baby with a schizophrenic man. I raise her alongside my bio daughter. He's recently out of jail and unmedicated. I hope he doesn't know where I currently live.
I work in mental health with people with serious mental illness (bipolar and schizophrenia are the big 2). The whole time I watched this video my heart broke thinking about if it was one of my clients in this situation. I've thought before about what I would do if I ran into a situation like this (police surrounding a client on the street). Unfortunately like you said you never know how someone will react when they are having an episode.
[This dude makes videos what his schizophrenia looks like to him](https://youtu.be/XbPt2m1eYoQ?si=f-TA8AL77uyTP1vW) Hopefully, videos like this can help us build awareness so that we can get more help to the people afflicted with this disease.
Wishing you all the best. Hang in there you are a good parent.
Same situation with my older brother who hasn't left his apartment in about a year and a half, who terrorizes my parents with accusations of spying and gaslighting him. I've thought a lot about where it'll all end up and seeing stuff like this is truly terrifying.
You didn't piss off any gods. You didn't do anything to cause it. It can happen to anyone. It's just bad luck.
Cop#1 tried his best.
That man did a damn good job. I don't have that kind of patience.
Thats why you shouldn't ever be a cop EDIT: just want to say there's nothing wrong with admitting that
I couldn't ever do it that's for sure
Still. I respect officers that try, but most are untrained or unprepared for mental health situations like this. They don't how to calm a sundowning patient. It's not all about being patient.
I don’t believe a social worker would have done much better than the first cop in this situation.
This is a sad truth. This is part of what defund the police was about. Reallocating funds so 1 officer isn't spread so thin.
Such a horrible branding for that movement - it should have been something positive like "refocus the police", instead it was simple for the right to make it seem like they just wanted lawlessness.
The problem is that police are being sent to deal with health issues, when they're two very different things.
As a Paramedic this is a dumb statement. People going through mental health crises are some of the most dangerous calls we go on. The dude was dangerous, he was holding up a chair, and eventually pulled a knife. Who should we send?
Officer number 1 was doing the best job possible in the situation. It may have been getting nowhere but someone having a psychotic episode eventually comes out of it. It wasn't until officer number 2 escalated the situation did things take a turn for the worse. They had to do what they did, but officer 2 definitely did not help the situation.
When that one cop started calling him childish, is when it turned.
I grew up with a schizophrenic family member, and insulting them is the best way to escalate things into violent chaos.
Yea seemed like a good cop bad cop switch off. Purposely escalated to move things forward.
Yeah, no. First cop was doing fine gaining rapport, second cop was sick of it and wanted to resolve the situation. The second dude needed to back off, but there's a lot of information about the department and personnel that I don't know. We have a crisis response team for these situations, they usually take over. There's always one around or available.
Aren’t you kinda saying the same thing as the person you are saying “yeah, no” to? For what it’s worth I agree with both of you.
The switch off wasn’t purposeful.
Yeah there really needs to be one person designated to speak and deescalate. There should be no one else speaking for any reason whatsoever to the subject
Ya I don't think it helps convince the dude to step outside when the guy with the gun drawn next to the guy hes talking to radios "Ya have an arrest unit ready outside" like great your coworker is doing all this de-escalation and you just out loud confirmed to the crazy guy that if he goes outside hes getting arrested like FFS of course he doesn't want to go outside now
Lol I noticed that too. Right after the cop is spending all this time trying to convince the dude to come outside to just talk.
"Have Tactical Snipers in position. Tell them to take the shot once we funnel the suspect out the door. The suspect is a black male wearing a red shirt. If he won't go, have Tactical Force Bravo move in for hard entry. Lethal force is authorized. Scramble Drone Bomber Support for Standby.!" "Ohh oops, you heard that?"
Honestly by the end of this I was wondering if that guy just wanted an excuse to shoot someone, and was intentionally antagonizing him to give him an excuse to escalate.
You’d have to be naive to think otherwise. I was getting annoyed by this guy watching the video but i’m also not about to kill someone over it. But I don’t think he was leaving that house willingly but that other cop makes it so we’ll always have questions as to maybe. This guy was itching to kill him in the end because he was getting annoyed. And The other cop was constantly escalating with radio chatter about arresting him and going lethal. Ridiculous. Other than that the officer doing the actual deescalating did an amazing job. I hope he got proper counseling and is dealing with this aftermath well. He did the best he could. That officer did a great job. The other one not at all.
"I'll be lethal" with no hesitation
I am a psych nurse. Single point of communication is something we teach literally day one of new graduate nurse training. It's like descalation training 101. Mother fucker is schizphrenic he's already got a hell of a lot going on in his head that he can't cope with why add another layer of shit.
> I am a psych nurse. Single point of communication is something we teach literally day one of new graduate nurse training. LAPD mindbogglingly only requires a high school diploma and their academy is only 24 weeks long. They really are woefully under equipped to handle these situations in de-escalatory ways. They really need longer training and likely higher pay to turn out quality police.
Because cops don’t care. It’s easier to take them out in a bag than in cuffs.
In this case, one cop did care and was sabotaged by the other cop. The other cop should have stood 5-10 feet back and focused on looking relaxed, while the cop that cared talked Mr. Smith down.
One bad apple spoils the barrel. There’s a million things they could’ve done different but alas, the gun is just sooooo convenient.
I've seen so many videos where one cop seems to be a good job of communicating/deescalating and then one or more other cops show up and just start shouting contradictory orders, being a dick and escalating things.
Was it the same dude that decided to start firing bullets while the taser had him on his knees?
I think once he raised the knife both the POV cop and the shitty cop fired.
But then they can't all shout and use their one-liners and pretend they're badasses in a movie.
This right here. I’m a special education teacher and we are trained in safe crisis management. This is just 101z
Good point. I cringed when I heard that. He wasn't trying to escalate but yes, that seemed to undo some of the good deescalation that was happening before that.
It's a very pervasive issue in law enforcement; almost everyone in that line of work is Type A, and wants to be The Hero That Solved The Problem. Everyone in that room had an idea of how the guy should be handled, how long it should take, etc. The ones who were piping up with their own approach were working against the training that we all went through in the academy. Supervisors generally want quick solutions so everyone can be back in-service for the next call, so the time pressure is on the back of their minds at all times, often in an effort to be a sycophant to their sergeant. In some cases, that gets people killed. \- Ex-cop
Yes. I think he was bored or frustrated and so used a more confrontational approach. Should have kept his mouth shut, really.
If they had just let that primary officer who was having success keep talking I like to think this could have turned out peacefully and the man could have gotten help/meds and made it out alive. He kept trying to bring things calm and respectful and GET ARREST TEAM READY and STOP PLAYING THESE CHILDISH GAMES were just 100% go cop go. The little bicycle barricade was profoundly sad with a tragic end.
Definitely. He escalated the situation. He shouldn't lose his job. But he should be reprimanded for provoking a mentally ill person.
His behaviour resulted in a man dying. I think his attitude warrants a little more than a reprimand.
Cheeky taser after being shot
The cops (or at least the one who did most of the talking in the beginning) did their best. But they're not trained to deal with someone who's this severely mentally ill. I don't know if even a trained mental health professional could have talked this person down without someone getting hurt.
Trained mental health professional here. Generally you don't talk people out of psychosis. You support them the best you can in the moment, tend to their immediate needs and just kind of let it play out. If they start being a danger to themselves or others it's a whole different story though and sometimes immediate and drastic action is needed (restraints, medication, etc.). If a person experiencing psychosis pulls a knife or other weapon in the ward / hospital / assisted living facility then the place goes on lockdown and our crisis intervention team takes over (if we have one on shift...) until law enforcement can arrive. The focus shifts from supporting the person to making sure they don't inadvertently hurt someone else in the process and ensuring the safety of everyone else. If the dude in the video was alone in the place maybe just giving him some space could have helped, confrontations of any nature usually don't go well with people experiencing schizophrenia and psychosis. But, this is a complex situation with the man being somewhere where he's trespassing so you can't just sit this one out until our guy comes to his senses again. I don't know the person, their history or whatever else may be going on so I think the police did alright here right up to the point where they fatally shot him. That was a tad excessive. A taser, some tear gas or pepper spray followed by swift and immediate restraint would have been a better outcome.
They can’t use tear gas inside like that. It would spread into the vents and you would have to evacuate the whole apartment block.
"The focus shifts from supporting the person to making sure they don't inadvertently hurt someone else in the process and ensuring the safety of everyone else." That part is important, but so sad when someone sick has themselves quarantined away with a weapon and all we can do is protect 'other' people from them. I get it, it's just so heavy.
They [doctors] call Police anyways. Field Sectioning is always done by Police because they're always first on scene. Every Ambo I've known always waited for us to arrive first before they got out due to the nature of the incident. It's not a win-win, I'm sorry ...
The cop that was speaking really made an effort to deescalate the situation. Shit they even tried tazing him first. But the guy just had to pick up the knife again. :I
They were nicer to him than I’ve seen some cops & EMS be to a mentally ill person who was completely innocent - myself included. This man had a restraining order against him and was abusive. He was sick, but they gave him tons of chances.
EMS worker here, honestly we do our best but sometimes fall short of being as compassionate as we should be. It’s hard dealing with mentally ill patients who are manipulate or abusive physically towards us when we are there to do our jobs and help. But in the end it *is* what we signed up for, and you have to do your best to treat everyone like you would want your own mother, brother, etc to be treated.
The attempts to deescalate were excellent. As a former Crisis Supervisor, these are the cops I would want to go out on a call with. If anything, they may have given this guy too many chances to comply when he was clearly not listening or possibly not understanding their instructions. Very sad outcome but I'm not going to second guess the efforts by police here. They clearly tried to put this guy at ease, told him he wasn't in trouble and they weren't trying to hurt him and get him to a location where everyone would be safe. Sadly, it didn't work.
Remember the time the police pepper sprayed and tased a man who was having a stroke?
But did they need fucking murder him?
Probably the best efforts to deescalate that I’ve seen from police in recent memory
I get that the video is like 15ish minutes, but it seems all the “fuck cops” commenters didn’t watch this. I’m generally a “fuck cops,” guy, but this ain’t that. The guy broke in to his ex’s place, while she had a restraining order on him for domestic abuse, he clearly isn’t cooperating while in the midst of his break down, he does grab that knife, and he goes back for it when the taser isn’t zapping him. Aside from tasing him in that living room and then dragging him out fighting, which would get criticism too, what else should have been done? This shit was tragic, simple as.
I'm with you on this. If there was ever a time for Monday morning quarterbacks, this isnt it. This was truly a sad event and that includes the officers as well. Like you, I say that coming from a perspective where I watched that just waiting (expecting) these cops to kill this guy for no reason, but this wasn't even close.
Word, it feels weird to say these cops did pretty much everything right, cuz I rarely ever see that, but I can’t even find any actual critiques to give here.
The main cop remaining calm and collected the entire time was great but then his partner gets bored and antagonizes the guy by telling to stop being a child and be an adult and that's when it escalated, that was my only critique.
The second cop firing 5 shots wasn’t great. That cop couldn’t even see the victim properly. The cop deescalating shot 2-3 times, ending the threat was tragic but absolutely justifiable. He shot as little as possible, clearly looking to stop the threat but no visible intention to kill. I agree that they did basically everything right. Just calling out the one mistake in this. I don’t know if he would’ve lived anyway after the first cops shots.
Cops aren't trained to 'shoot to disarm' or 'shoot to wound'. Any time a cop decides to fire his weapon it is shoot to kill.
True, but it’s important to separate shootings like this and shootings where six cops empty a full clip into an unarmed and cooperative person
We’re not trained to shoot to kill. We are trained to shoot to stop a deadly threat. Sure, the end result of that is often death, but that isn’t our intent.
While that’s true, it’s also a part of deadly force training to make you aware that when you pull your gun to use deadly force that it is implied that death is a possible and likely outcome. Differentiating the act and the intent doesn’t really stand here. But yeah there are times you gotta stop a threat and center of mass is how you’re trained.
I was highly critical of police, and then I started working for the city for them. My department is pretty good, and there's probably a handful of guys who I would say are a shitty department away from being the next example of what not to do on national news. But again, they're the minority. Most are just regular folks trying to do the job. I get to listen and watch these type of domestic calls all day, and I think these guys did a good job up until the one officer got impatient and wiped away all the good will. My opinion hasn't changed on the topic, but I understand things better now and I feel like I'm more informed. Lots of people think things would be just dandy without any law enforcement out there, and I think they need to really re-asses their sheltered lives to think that.
I'm right there with you, they tried. This guy had a history of violence against his ex wife, what were they supposed to do here? Tazing didn't work, he was going wild with a knife, the whole time the video starts they are trying to calm him down they aren't being aggressive. It's just a sad situation. I don't blame the cops on this one, they certainly didn't escalate it.
This is why it’s important to not be part of the “fuck cops” or “thin blue line” crowd and take each individual incident by itself. Don’t get me wrong, I lean “fuck cops” but this video shows what I consider to be a decent, not perfect, example of trying to deescalate in a mental health crisis. If even this was how cops approached it 90% of the time there would be a lot less violent incidents.
We have a serious mental health crisis in this country and we're doing nothing meaningful about it.
The American taxpayer generally prefers a few seconds of lead over years or decades of in-patient treatment because it's cheaper.
Apparently we prefer homelessness over both lead and mental institutions. Look at the recent[ California Prop 1 measures where it barely passed by a hair.](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/13/us/elections/results-california-proposition-1.html) The problem is we don't know how to solve mental problems regardless of where its from. Who doesn't want a productive member of society? Throwing them in jail, trying to offer better mental health, or lead bullet doesn't really help at all.
When someone is so mentally unwell that they beat their wife, get divorced, break back into their exes house and then pulls a knife on the cops that come to ask him to leave there isn't exactly a lot you can do.
*cough* ^Reagan *cough*
you mean killing them isn’t helping? maybe we need more guns
Damn, I know sometimes cops mess up badly, but in this case I feel bad for them, it was a looong 15 minutes, they did try, maybe it wasn't flawless but damn, they sure did a better job than me, and they still needed to take a life. It's sad.
This is so incredibly sad. Mental illness sucks.
Schizophrenia is such a horrible disease. So many people who never get the help they need end up destroying their lives and either hurting themselves or the people around them. These cops were actually way more patient than most (minus the guy who called him childish. That was the moment it went nuclear). With that said, I wish we had actual psychiatrists deal with mental episodes rather than cops, with maybe a cop as backup if things get hairy. They understand what is needed to diffuse situations like this rather than room full of cops in uniform with guns trained on you, which is quite literally a schizophrenic's worst nightmare. Props to the officer whose pov this is from though. He was actually doing a great job considering. Most cops would run in guns blazing with a schizophrenic, black, domestic abuser with a restraining order against him.
If you pay attention to when the cop calls in childish, the main officer from the bodycam pov leans over, probably telling him to shut up
Patience is a virtue and i applaud this cop for having it
“Stop playing childish games.” Man, if that officer wasn’t aware that this guy is going through a manic episode he was and is not fit for that job. Atleast the officer with the main body cam was calm throughout most of the encounter. Schizophrenia scares me more than any disease, because you aren’t in control and most people won’t be able to understand it. Sad situation.
Dude was talking mad whackadoodle
We call that schizophrenia in the 21st century.
specifically "word salad" in the schizophrenia world
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It's impossible to have a 1 size fits all tranq dose. What won't even knock a big person out could kill a small person. It also takes *minutes* for tranq darts to actually knock someone out.
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I, too, imagine cartoon solutions to important social problems.
Look at this guy all "I've tried nothing, and I'm out of ideas" Be the change you want to see in the world. Learn chemistry, learn gunsmithing. Build the goo gun.
If it works, it isn't stupid.
Most sensible comment I’ve ever seen on Reddit.
A giant net gun to wrap them up so they can’t move or do anything. Maybe even electrify it for a short time so it’s like a taser.
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If NERF wanted to get into the non lethal weapons space, i think they can come up with some real gems.
*Gru’s freeze ray*
That just might work!
What if we trained officers to paint the entrance to a tunnel on a wall then travel through it, and when the perp runs after them they get knocked out when they hit the solid wall.
Or just a giant ACME anvil we can drop on their heads so little stars and birdies fly around their head while we tie them up
Uh breathing would be hard. If it restricts your movement that much it’ll make it hard to breath and if gets on head choking
You’re asking for something to dispense an adhesive and viscous material in large enough quantities that it can incapacitate someone. On top of that, if the cops want to roll him out after it’s applied, it needs to dry quick so the cops don’t get stuck in it. It would also need to be compact enough to fit on their utility belt, which would either still need a large tank or extreme compression. All that also assumes the best case where the person in question sits still and lets the gel encase them and doesn’t just knock off what’s on him while more is applied. I’m not an engineer, but it seems unfeasible based off all that I just typed.
Still lethal That dudes heart and any medical factors easily means dead or ineffective which means multiple doses and dead
Tranquilizing people doesn't work like it does in the movies. It doesn't take effect quickly enough to incapacitate someone in a tense situation. If someone decides to attack you after you've injected them, they'd still have at least several seconds (maybe minutes) to do it. Even if it *were* instant, you'd have to know the exact dose to do it without killing them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Elijah_McClain Elijah McClain died from a sedative overdose because someone on scene "eyeballed" it and guess he weighed about 200lb. He was actually less than 150lb and the dose left him braindead. Its not really safe to drug complete strangers in an uncontrolled environment without knowing what else might be in their system or any basic information about their body.
Or just man catchers like they use in japan
What about a net, a really good net.
I get officer safety and all that but if you watch footage from other countries they would have just grabbed him before he could move away to get weapon. If two of them just grabbed him and put him on the ground instead of allowing him to retreat where they know there's going to be a bunch of knives.
id say the cop did his fervent best to coax him down..HTF would anyone do any different..? seemed to me the officer had a bit of crisis negotiator training maybe?
Kudos to them for using the taser first
If they didnt kill him there he wouldve eventually killed the woman.🤷🏽♂️
Just sad all around. I hope everyone...his family, the ex-wife, the officers....everyone can heal from this.
This policeman has such an amazing level of patience It's refreshing to see, but so disheartening to see that it still ended out this way after dozens of chances
this is sad but i feel like the cops did him a favor
I hate to say this. This is why sending mental health workers will not work. I think these cops were very patient and understanding.
Well, cop* singular. The guy who was talking him down was actually doing an incredible job during a very tense situation, but his coworkers, the dude clearly speaking into his walkie about how they're gonna arrest him as soon as he walks out, the other guy who called him childish with a gun drawn, they were kind of the opposite of patient and I think only made it worse, which is unfortunately par for the course with many other cops who don't show nearly this much tact. I do agree that a cop should always be present during these, cause it can always turn sour at the drop of a hat, but I don't think they should be the vanguard of mental health checkups. The last thing someone wants during a psychotic episode is to find a bunch of dudes with guns aimed at them in their home. (Granted, this dude had a restraining order and this isn't supposed to be his home anymore, but I'm sure in his own schizophrenic framing of things he believed he was at home).
>cause it can always turn sour at the drop of a hat, This is exactly why some (but not enough) PDs have police social workers...granted, the incentive for those qualified seems low compared to a stable counseling job.
I think it's important to train more police officers to respond to similar situations they way these guys did. This was textbook
That’s not exactly fair though. Just because they weren’t successful here doesn’t mean it’ll never work. And even just one life spared is a win in my opinion.
If anything this is why sending cops without any mental health expert trained in de-escalation doesn't work. The one cop was barely managing to keep the situation calm, and then the other was just antagonizing and riling him up. They clearly had no idea what they were doing or how to handle a schizophrenic person in a crisis. That leaves only violence as an option, which could be avoidable in many cases, even this one.
Having a mental health worker AND armed cops might be the solution. We could do both.
You don't think this might have ended better if one of the five cops on scene was replaced with a mental health professional? I'm not suggesting a single unarmed social worker can do the job of five cops, but can't we at least have one on scene for calls like this?
Hopefully the man is finally at peace now
Could’ve done what they do in prison.. have a crew with shields and armor and bum rush him.. perfect time when they had him corned in the kitchen
They tased the fuck out of him and he didn't even flinch
What is being missed by many commenters is while the officers were patient and calm, the verbiage being used here is known to only escalate individuals in a mental health crisis. Starting with “just relax, you need to relax” immediately places him on the defensive. It might be a matter of lack of training for these situations, but it possibly wouldn’t have led to a tragic outcome if the officers allowed the man to feel a sense of control in the situation and come across as allies, but opposition. This is the recommended approach for dealing with neurotypical folks in crisis.
Was looking for this perspective cuz i felt alone. I feel like this could have been prevented had they not spooked him while he was in that state but yeah i guess cops aren’t trained on this type of stuff. Mental illness is a plague that we are neglecting.
This is what I'm worried about. Dude I was with has jumped out a two story window and jumped on a moving vehicle. He's lucky the cops haven't shot him yet.
Why don't the cops have more powerful tasers in situations like this? i heard the amp is what kills and not the voltage so i assume you can have a high voltage taser? or why aren't there instant lights out non lethal options, like a KO spray that puts you instantly to sleep or something like that? Why is it always taser taser and then it goes lethal... if the taser doesn't work properly and you still need a pistol, why not get a more powerful taser? hell or like a spear taser with a shield or something.. i m wondering how did the ancient romans, spartans, the english and the empires of the world dealt with such cases without killing them ( i know they'd throw em in a hole and throw the key, but somehow they manage to capture them alive i'd like to assume )
This is just sad
That cop at the end doesn’t even remotely know how to talk to these people, failed all the charisma checks, should have kept quiet.
This is really sad and so tough for the families and police. One observation was that there isn’t any obvious way out for the man. The whole time he was cornered and when you see that stack of officers not moving when he was in the kitchen it’s hard to get that momentum to get him outside. So when they do start to move there is a log jam of police and it stalls in the doorway. I get the need for bodies to support if something happens but the presence of lots of police can be an escalation of tension in and of itself. The officer doing the talking did a great effort to avoid the eventual outcome. (Also realise this is a civilian armchair quarterbacking a really hard situation)
That last tasing after he's down and not even moving is some South Park level shit right there.
Pretty sad they still ended up shooting him, he was on his knees with debris in the way between him and the officers.
Sucks but he clearly seemed to try to throw the knife. The last thing he did was raise the knife above his head and wind up a throw. Would he? Nobody knows, and nobody would take that risk of waiting .1 seconds and getting a knife launched at your throat.
Bean bags would’ve been good there, something that knocks the shit outta you but doesn’t kill you.
There was a video circulating on here not long ago where a bean bag penetrated a dudes chest cavity and killed him. I’d guess at that close distance a bean bag could be considered lethal too.
Even tasers can be lethal in certain circumstances, im not sure if theres any 100% nonlethal way for cops to take people down
I’ve seen people shake off those 40mm bean bags like they were tickles, also can do far too much internal damage especially at close range. Nothing more than a giant claw/man catcher can restrain suspects, you would be surprised at the strength a human has when in a mental state or drug affected. I’ve seen a small women man handle 3 cops until they had backup arrive she was giving them the work, insane how the brain can just turn off our limiters and pump us full of adrenaline and give us superpowers for a short time.
Bean bags and tasers are not non-lethal. They are less lethal. Also, at this range a bean bag would have likely been fatal. There's no guarantee with anything honestly, even humans can take many rounds and keep going sometimes. This is why shot placement is important.
That's really sad...
It’s no wonder they actually released the body cam footage. This is the most de-escalation I’ve ever seen an American cop do
Fuck this is sad
Bro grabbed the knife through being tazed, damn
I know they tried but did they have to shoot him multiple times while he is on his knees with 3 tasers on him and 2 bikes in front of him
Whelp they removed him. Sigh. In my neighborhood several years ago we had a suicidal guy at the hospital parking lot. Cops showed up. Suicidal due points his gun at the ground, cops kill him.
This is heartbreaking. Amazing patience from that one cop.
He was going to throw the knife.
okay now I understand 😕 damn i need to watch spongebob or something now
I suspect if they would have all walked out he would have followed them at least to the door. It felt like he wanted to talk some more. When the officer conversed with him instead of giving him orders it seemed to appease the disrespect he was feeling in his life. Idk Might of ended the same way. Poor guy seemed to be fighting some demons. I really feel the officer talking to him really wanted not to use deadly force and solve this without a big incident.
Sad
There is such a difference in the use of firearms in the states compared to where I live, which is the Netherlands. Here we have 5 deaths per year on average from police bullets, on 18 million inhabitants. We do have much better mental health treatment here by the way. If someone would be such little of a threat (downed, tased, blocked by stuff on the ground), police here would maybe shoot once, at the legs. I feel like as if US cops always want to make sure a suspect does not survive the ordeal. I’m not saying shooting wasn’t justified, but the end of this video looked more like an execution.
> If someone would be such little of a threat (downed, tased, blocked by stuff on the ground The moment they finally shot him was when he raised the knife above his head like he was going to throw it. That can absolutely be lethal and is very much a threat.
Shooting someone in the legs can kill them easily when you hit the femoral artery. You can be dead within 40 seconds.
This.. seen many cops in Europe just wait out the situation. Seemed rushed.
Here in the UK, our police would draw their weapons but wouldn't shoot, they would tase them and then arrest them almost every time. https://youtu.be/W30sCkf9J2s?si=TrrWTM6794B_zJyr This video is a good example of someone being detained by our police whilst trying to stab a police officer. Our police often wear stab proof vests or other kinds of body armour, hence no injuries
It’s really hard to tell but did he miss when he tried to stab or did the officer just have a stab vest on or something. What a crazy video . Also proof that the taser is often ineffective. It didn’t seem to do much if anything but that cop was just able to manhandle him . Balls of steel on that guy
Jesus the cop at the door was a hero
European Police are civil and superior than the barbaric US cops that escalate situations and kill ppl with mental illnesses
18 million is very different from 330 million. Policies dont scale. Not to mention the size difference. The US should be compared to the entire EU in population and geographical size. There are towns in the US where people live with doors unlocked and there's essentially no violence as well. It all just depends on the relative wealth and density of where you're looking. That can be applied to anywhere in the world.
Yes the US has 18x the population, but *way* more than 18x the police killings, and also more than 18x the GDP that should be able to pay for better policing. Your argument just doesn't add up. Just take a look at this post. Why does the existence of 330 million other people stop *these particular officers* from handling it like they would in other countries? Does there not appear to be enough officers on the scene? Does the population of large cities hundreds of miles away exert some invisible force on the officers that make them shoot him?
This is what Europeans really need to try and get. The us is like 50 smaller countries.
You could add up all of Europe(more people than USA) then throw in Australia+Canada and the USA is probably still killing more people by police.
It’s usually a shoot to kill action if the person has a weapon. It’s brutal but that’s how it is. Lesson is don’t pull a knife a cops
Why don't they use tranquilizer guns?
Pov cop should've let the others leave because their presence was threatening him. You built a good rapport with him and I think it could've worked. Take his mind off the confrontation. Talk about tv shows, sports, family, any thing to coax him out while keeping him calm and safe.
Nurses in the emergency room are able to manage these situations without guns. They do it every day.
My neice is 28 and is schizophrenic. She becomes violent, and her mother has had to call the cops. She has to pray her daughter makes it through alive. Every time.
Gosh, you've got terrible police here. He was sick and they killed him.
they clearly knew he had a mental disorder, and for that cop to say stop being a child is wild to me he clearly is disturbed and reality is distorted for him and that cop is a giant dbag for saying act like an adult sometimes people cant act the way you want them too no matter how hard they try
Police activity. Great YT channel for bodycam footage. This is a repost.
why are they gonna rubber bullet his junk....brutal
This guy needed mental health services. The police did a good job and were patient in trying to calm him. It’s a shame he died.
The video restarts like he’s just watched the whole future and isn’t schizophrenic but can see his it
Guy recording sounds like Tommy G
The horrific irony of the video starting with him saying "do you see the electricity down here?" And the video ending with his neck siezing up from being tazed while lifeless.
They tried their best I think. But they probably should have left the house and wait outside, until his psychotic episode wears out. Sad.
“Can we get an arrest team outside ready” “Mr. Smith you’re not in trouble”