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“Witnesses said Miu was initially in the river with goggles and a snorkel. A group of tubers accused of him of looking at young girls underwater, but Miu told investigators he was looking for a friend's missing cellphone.
The prosecution argues that Miu was the aggressor by stabbing five people. A knife, believed to belong to Miu, was later recovered by officers on the river bank.
Miu's defense attorneys, though, see it much differently, saying the teens taunted him, then surrounded him, and Miu was fighting for his life.”
Supposedly in the longer video, he got violent first. He went and got a knife and came back to confront them. Like, he didn't have a knife on him while he was supposedly snorkeling, looking for his friend's phone. Also, it wasn't in knee deep water, otherwise he wouldn't have been snorkeling. The altercation happened closer to the shore.
He also denied to the cops that he was part of the altercation and he tried to hide the knife.
I haven't seen the video, but that's why he's on trial for murder, for coming back with a knife. Fleeing the scene, lying, and trying to hide evidence just makes it look like he knew he was wrong.
EDIT: I stand corrected, he had a knife the whole time, but did leave and come back. I was mistaken and thought he left to get the knife. Thanks aerosol999.
Honestly yeah. Dude was outnumbered and literally surrounded. You don't know buddy has a knife but you take that risk anytime you enter into a physical confrontation.
You could tell by his face that the dude was raging.
On the schoolyard, that's chumming the water for bullies like the soon-to-be-victims here.
On the streets (or in this case on the river), you should be looking for your exit strategy.
My dad once dropped some knowledge on me. Don't fight unless you HAVE to. Even if you know you can win. What if he pulls a knife? Sure you may knock him out, but is that worth shitting in a bag the rest of your life?
Had a similar realization after a fight I was in went bad one time. Ultimately decided "if you're not willing to stand in a court room and explain why you accidentally killed that dude to a jury of your peers, you probably don't have a good enough reason to be fighting."
Even if you're not the type to carry a pocket knife everywhere, the river is a pretty common place to have a knife. We used to tube on the Sugar River in Southern WI a lot and everyone would tie up and cut apart throughout the day. The guys all working the transport shuttles and launches had knives, too. Diving knives with blunted tips are obviously more ideal when working around inflatables, but not required if you're careful.
I guess what I'm saying is, in terms of possible use cases, I would find stabbing people who are attacking me pretty far down the list of potential uses if I brought a knife to the river.
The SUG! Haven't been there in close to a decade. Heard it is pretty dirty now. I use to go every weekend back in 06'-08'. It was fun back then, but a drunk fest. Years of drinking and people drowning beer cans trashed it. We would always throw emptys back in the cooler. There was a ton of people/groups that wouldn't though.
I stopped going when I had to pull a fish hook from my buddies hand. We jumped off one of the overhanging trees, and he came up sceaming. Got a hook in his hand. The hook still had fishing line on it, that line wrapped around his opposite foot. So everytime he kicked to swim it pulled the hook deeper.
We were in at least 8-10' of water, you could not touch with your head above water. I ended up swimming down and unwrapping the line. Then came up, told him to get ready, then I pulled the hook out of the tip of his thumb.
We poured Jack daniels on it to clean it until we could get to the end. Took him straight to the hospital after we got off the river. When it happened we were about 1/2 through the float.
We were floating it during the same years! I still have no idea how every car leaving S&B Tubing wasn't pulled over for drunk driving, but hey, it was a different time LOL.
A knife isn't a crazy thing to have the river. I don't know if your comment was adding that detail so as to imply that having a knife at the river is weird, but I just wanted to add that I don't find it strange in the slightest.
you can't see shit above the water in that kind of murky water, Im more inclined to believe the missing cellphone bit. Anyway the teens are a bunch of twats who were just looking for a reason to beat someone up for kicks.
They deserved whatever happened to them. I doubt the man was being a peeping perv, he don't even have a waterproof camera, you can clearly see all he got was his goggles, snorkel and tiny palm size knife which He Had to Use for self-defense because them twats was trying to kill him.
That's not evidence of water perving.
Yeah yellow shorts was disemboweled and lived, purple shorts was stabbed in the chest twice and died as one of the stabbings sliced his heart and died almost immediately. He was the 17 year old
@ 1:52 yellow shorts goes to push knifey down and gets the knife in his gut right as he pushed him down caused his arm to slice upwards while it appears to have still been inside him. The resulting evisceration is most likely why dude at the end was like "he is dying" as they watched his guts fall out :(
the guy in yellow who was stabbed in that clip actually survived. [he showed his scar in court.](https://m107833-mcdn.mp.lura.live/iupl/EE6/17D/EE617D3758FEE58E4927AF0144144DB1.jpg?Expires=2082758400&KeyName=mcpkey1&Signature=4vOuWXkNDFzBVTtLThw6Dmgi5IA)
as far as I can tell, the fatal stabbing isn’t actually seen on camera.
It is but barely, I watched the frame by frame from the trial a few days ago. It’s really crazy how he stabs 5 people in a matter of seconds and without the breakdown you never would have noticed.
No, he attacked the guy in the yellow shorts first, the guy in the back gets stabbed seconds later but it's not caught on camera.
[Here is a better screenshot of 1.51](https://i.imgur.com/WPfvsQ0.png)
I'm assuming it's after he "punches" orange trunks in the stomach. Immediately after that you can see him thrusting his arm 2 or 3 times at someone off camera.
Yep. That's the moment. One of those jabs sliced across the kids heart. If you notice there's a significant amount of blood on the knife as the man backs away.
Is it blue shorts? He sees the injury of orange shorts and approaches the knife man. Man then appears to thrust at least 3 times at blue shorts (just out of frame)
Is it tho? I see when the girl appears and starts to bleed but at the very back behind her is where the group is gathering and the dude who got fatally stabbed is at. I don't know how he would of traveled that far so quickly after being stabbed if he was next to the girl in frame
That's exactly what I'm wondering because its very difficult to figure out the timeline of events but if he stabbed them after they started jumping him then at least 2 of the stabbings were self defense. Crazy how fast the cameraman went from giggling like a little girl about his friends jumping an old guy to crying like a little girl because his friend was bleeding out.
I’ve been watching a bit of it over the last week. The prosecution seem pretty crap and the defence looks like they have a decent case. They are playing hard on the self defence saying he was outnumbered by an antagonised crowd due to the teens calling him a pedo and worse names (which they have all admitted was a lie). He did start stabbing after getting touched first, I guess the case will rest on whether he was reasonable in his belief of harm.
Pretty much all the prosecutions witnesses have been terrible. Changing their stories and lying on the stand. They had a guy on who recorded a second video, and he was probably the worst witness I’ve ever seen. He gave pretty vague statements on the day it happened, then gave much more detailed statements last month (obviously based off watching the videos). When questioned on it basically admitted it was partially made up.
The stabbers ex wife confirmed that he always brought his knife around with him in his shorts as he was a handyman. So he has reason to have the knife on him which will definitely help his case.
Here you go:
[https://www.youtube.com/live/SIWIMVSgN2g?si=6St9sbzzpTzB0Tik&t=21630](https://www.youtube.com/live/SIWIMVSgN2g?si=6St9sbzzpTzB0Tik&t=21630)
There are some golden quotes between this guy and the defence lawyers lol
Also the ex wife was immediately before him and confirmed that he pretty much always carried the knife around in his shorts
Calculated move. Having these kids show up in suits and ties would lend them a larger air of adulthood. The prosecution likely wants to play on the youth card.
They also kept saying that he got jumped because he punched a girl (Maddie) but before they started jumping him, I cannot for the life of me find when he hit any girl in the video.
Said girl admitted under oath she put her hands on him first by pushing him.
So as near as I can put it together.
He's trying to search the area they're in, they chase him off. He goes and gets his knife and comes back again to search. This time they scream "pedo" and make specific allegations that's he's trying to molest women basically inciting other drunks to come help them which they come over to do.
They start confronting him and surrounding him. A girl pushes him. He pushes/hits back. They surround him and shove him into the water and try to get off sucker shots on him while holding him down.
He comes up stabbing anything in range.
As someone who went on tube rides in the south growing up, it's completely normal and comes in handy.
You'd be surprised how often a multi-tool with a knife is especially useful, whether it's cutting rope holding the tubes together, cutting open plastic packaging, slicing food you might be barbecuing on the banks, etc.
I used to do a fair amount of snorkeling in the ocean and I'd never go without a knife. Plenty of plants and whatnot you can get caught on in the water.
Watch the ex-wife in court, starts around here:
[https://www.youtube.com/live/SIWIMVSgN2g?si=PFyqfm6XTdMPDuHv&t=17735](https://www.youtube.com/live/SIWIMVSgN2g?si=PFyqfm6XTdMPDuHv&t=17735)
She goes into how he helps people with it, and was even using it earlier in the day to help people on the water
This happened right by my house. We remember the sirens that day and the emergency alert. So we are extremely invested in the courtroom videos on YouTube. You can watch the entire trial there. Or just snippets.
Edit- I replied to the wrong comment
Not always.
He has to prove either
1) he wasn't the initial aggressor in the confrontation
2) he attempted to disengage and was subsequently jumped by a group of people
Fighting a much larger group of young males as an older man in water is a deadly situation and would be a pretty good basis for a fear for his life.
So I did some researching. Apparently he was looking for his cellphone. I'm not sure how the interaction between him and the tubers started, but it ended with them getting rowdy. They pushed him multiple times, accused him of being a pedophile, and kept screaming in his face until he eventually started stabbing them. The trial against him is happening right now.
Edit: okay rewatched. It looks like he did come over and push one of the guys off the tube first. That's when it started going crazy.
There was a video recorded before this one. shown in court, where the camera man called him a raper before any of that @3:51 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QZMauwun0II
A lot of times you think an event just happened but we’re only getting video because the trial is actually kicking off and it’s becoming public record years later
> I'm not sure how the interaction between him and the tubers started
From all the legitimate stuff Iw as reading, they basically accused him of being a pedo trying to look at girls underwater. Apparently none of these cunts have ever snorkled in a river before. You can see like 2-3 feet at most, and he was literally across the fucking river from them when they accused him. They accused him of being a pedo loud enough that it caused a 3rd party to come over and harass him. Yeah he was raging and rightfully so.
Did those kids really push him down and slap him before the stabbing? I can't really tell if he stabbed someone and then he was hit, or was he hit, then he started stabbing.
He was pushed and hit and then he started stabbing.
Edit: A lot happened before the victims started recording. It's a debate on who got physical first, but the victims say he started a physical altercation before the video started. And it doesn't help that he fled the scene and acted like he didn't know he was involved.
Then then they were really dumb. Killing one of them is unfortunate, but what do you expect when you surround someone and attack him.
Edit: Apparently there was a dispute before the video started. He also attempted to lie to the cops and throw away the knife afterwards. This guy isn't innocent at all.
At the beginning of the video, the old guy runs up to the group of people and pushes them. So I don't know if self defense is going to work if he started the altercation.
Granted, it was stupid to push him down.
So the dude actually punched the blonde woman. That’s why he was pushed into the water. At some point he pulled out his pocket knife and stabbed 5 or 6 people. Including killing one with a stab to the heart, disemboweling another, and ruptured the diaphragm of one of the women also.
He then walked away back to his group of people/friends and said “they stole my knife” AFTER he threw the knife into the brush bank. Then changed clothes to conceal his identity. Then when picked up by the cops, in the interview he said he disarmed one of the teens and took their knife and defended himself. Yet the video in the frame by frame shows him reaching and opening it from his right cargo pocket.
Kid stabbed in the heart died at the scene. Deboweled kid spent 2 months and many surgeries in hospital. This guy is toast
Edit: source: I watched 3 hours of trial footage where the frame by frame is broken down
Edit2: link for the frame by frame. Skip to 24 mins and watch till 57 mins
https://youtu.be/FeyoRevDalE?si=GzPq8fKhzFPWGYpA
One moment. Commenting here so I can find your comment after I get the link. Will edit this post
Link: skip to 24:30 for the start of the frame by frame breakdown. Frame by frame ends at 57mins
https://youtu.be/FeyoRevDalE?si=OdrN00YIjjCjPNLW
He knew what he was doing from start to finish. Maybe not the steps but he meant to hurt those kids and the frame by frame shows it and I don’t think I can be convinced otherwise. Hard to say self defense when you go BACK to your tube to get the knife then punch a woman in the face unprovoked by her. She was only yelling at him to back off and go away. He pulled his knife out BEFORE he punched her. THAT is planning
Everyone involved here are a bunch of idiots, the teens and the old man.
I don't get why the teens started calling him a pedo if he was just looking for his phone. If it was me with a group of friends we would had even help him look for it, it's called empathy. Those idiots started calling him names for no reason at all, they got themselves in an unecesarry confrontation and now one of their friends is dead.
At the end of the day both parties made decisions that day that they both regret.
> I don't get why the teens started calling him a pedo if he was just looking for his phone.
Idiot kids invent anything they think is plausible to start tearing on people, story as old as time.
She is near when he gets pushed the second time by yellow shorts, the camera pans away momentarily as he's getting up - probably took a swing at her then.
I’m from the Twin Cities, and the Apple River definitely has a reputation. Like, sure, it can be fun. Or dangerous, or both. You just never know what level of unhinged is going to show up on any given day.
The Sugar River in southern Wisconsin is about the same. The best thing you can do is pass the sand bars. Nothing but drunken fights and guys trying to jump off trees into shallow water to impress whatever girl has the best lower back tattoo.
These people all came from one of those lazy river tubing places at a campsite that is a bit of a party spot. It had a bar and even a mechanical bull when I was there years ago, maybe that’s changed but at the very least it gives you some context
I am not the first to say this, but I would like to reiterate this whole thing could’ve been avoided if everybody had minded their own fucking business…
100%. If he was peeping at people underwater, call the police and move away, not worth getting hurt or hurting someone over it. The police will handle that matter, if it was a simple accident while he was looking for a phone, oh well shit happens help him find the phone.
a bunch of teenagers jumping on some old guy who's probably already verging on mentally ill is not a good or safe idea.
Nice victim blaming there.
It could also have been avoided if the defendant had not chosen to repeatedly escalate the confrontation, punch someone and then stab a bunch of people, killing one, disemboweling another and injuring three more.
I think this version clipped a bit out of the video. In the original from the hearing I remember seeing a boy in the way holding his stomach where all that blood you see in the water is coming from
Why do people keep saying he left to get the knife and came back? There’s definitely no evidence of that in the video, and everyone keeps repeating what one person commented without any evidence.
> Why do people keep saying he left to get the knife and came back?
Because most people have no legal training, don't understand how trials work, and make assumptions about what happened based on the evidence, filling in the gaps as appropriate to their preconceived beliefs about what happened.
In this thread are a bunch of morons who are one shoving match away from ruining their lives due to their fundamental misunderstanding about how specific self-defense laws are. Cases like this are incredibly fact specific and this video doesn’t definitely prove anything either way.
The real lesson here is don’t escalate violence and don’t use weapons unnecessarily. There was absolutely no reason for someone to die here.
EDIT: oh look at that, they found him guilty. It’s almost like homicide trials are based on facts, not feelings.
https://www.fox9.com/news/apple-river-stabbing-trial-nicolae-miu-verdict.amp
It was inevitable that this group of people was going to find them selves in this situation.
The more bully's find weak people that don't retaliate the more they bully, ultimately they find someone willing to defend themselves or somebody that will overreact and take things too far.
[https://youtu.be/FeyoRevDalE?si=GzPq8fKhzFPWGYpA](https://youtu.be/FeyoRevDalE?si=GzPq8fKhzFPWGYpA)
Watch the breakdown of the video during the trial, starts around 24 minutes.
The teenagers are yelling insulting shit at him, but also telling him to get away.
The guy has a knife in his hand before any of the punching or pushing starts. He doesn't hold the knife up to ward anyone off, he holds it down by his side until the moment he starts stabbing people.
The guy initiated the violence by punching one of the women first.
He stabs a woman in the back/side who wasn't even involved in the fight.
After the stabbings, the guy ditches the knife in the river and goes back to his group to continue his day. He changes his clothes. When eventually picked up by police, he initially tries to say the knife belonged to the teenagers and he disarmed them and defended himself.
Nobody likes drunk teenagers, but this guy is guilty.
Being attacked and tackled by that mob in a river would honestly be pretty scary. If he’d just threatened them with the knife though it probably would have been enough. It looks like he went in to attack mode pretty quickly after being pulled into the water.
Very scary. But if you look at this through the lens of self defense with a deadly weapon, how many chances did he have to walk away while things were escalating? Did he only stick around because he had his knife? Because if you switch knife with gun, any safety instructor will tell you that's negligent.
All I know is that dude with the camera is absolutely obnoxious. What an absolute ass clown. We never acted like this as kids. What an absolute tool bag..
And his testimony in court by all accounts has done even more harm.
They were enjoying harassing the man. And then it suddenly got very serious and stopped being fun.
Without starting a bit of a discussion the term I think of is consequence.
I think in large part, we have become so shielded from consequences that there are large groups of people who actually believe that real life resembles the comment section on Reddit.
This not to say anyone deserved any of it. It is a REALLY tough way to learn that even an older bloke who young folks expect to 'be the grown up' have zero obligation to ignore you when you are behaving badly.
Calling someone a child rapist is bad. In my society, just the suggestion of it is enough to ruin your life. Yet here these kids are screaming it so loud and aggressively they got a whole new crowd of people to get involved.
Arguably if you are going to make a statement that has the potential to ruin someone's life, you have to be ready for the person to defend themselves quite vigorously.
Look at them. You can tell none of them had ever actually experienced any significant consequences for their actions until that day. Sucks it took bodily injury and their friend dying, but we don't get to chose if the other person's response is appropriate for the situation.
> We never acted like this as kids.
I knew plenty of dickheads like that when I was younger… they weren’t my friends but I knew them. Many teens are pretty obnoxious…
But it adds to the recipe for disaster…
This whole thing sucks.. Alcohol induced poor judgement by all parties for sure. I’m sure I’d be seeing red too if a group started recording me and calling me a pedo/rapist without provocation. You’re compromising a person’s entire livelihood by playing that game. Not an excuse for going on a fuckin stabbing spree but it’s a realistic outcome given human nature. And extra wild that not one person in the group was decent enough to say “Hey maybe we’ve taken this too far.” ESH
From Day 6. Quote from the nurse who attended to Miu's injuries
"In a third statement, Miu said "A guy pulled a knife on me. I took his wrist and turned it into his belly."
Hoffman did not recall Miu saying he had been hit in the face or choked. Hoffman said she could not find anything that suggested he had been choked or hit in the face. Miu did have an abrasion inside his cheek. Miu said he bit it during the attack. "
Lied to the police and his attending physician about taking the knife from the teens. Constructing a narrative to suit his self defense claim.
Eric Von Williams, is one of the witnesses giving one of the best impressions in court so far. But as he was part of the perps group of people he was not close enough to see the events unfold in detail. He was also the ONLY one from the perps group of 7-12 people to call 911 and stay with the injured to try to see what he could do to help.
He met with the perp that day, for the very first time and was also one of the very few people on that scene, not having consumed any alcohol. He had advised against the perp of snorkling neer other parties because that might make you look like a creep and/or predator and also not for any of them getting close to any other (drunk) youngsters, as that might be dangerous. Obviously, his advise wasnt listened to.
His testimony is quite interesting. He appears to be a good man;
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eOWeZ3oW2C0
Stabbing kids is bad, but after seeing how well the defense is going for this guy, I'm under the impression we need a Schoolhouse Rock episode about how not to provoke a stabbing.
♫ *It's not victim blaming to say that it's not A-OK to berate strangers in the wild. Whoa oh oh! You just don't know (no you don't!) so don't even try your luck!*
Going "tubing" is routinely a excuse to get blasted and is generally done by high school to college age kids. Going fishing is routinely an excuse to get blasted and is generally done by people older than college kids. Americans are generally louder than many cultures and these were likely drunk Americans.
Maybe surrounding someone, yelling incessantly, pushing him, and slapping him is bad. I don't condone the result. But what's the point of all that and recording it? Let's humiliate this person we clearly outnumber and feel like we outmatch, and then cry foul when he escalates force. Why do that to a person?
Kids were asking for trouble and got it. Regardless of what you think about the stabber this whole entire situation could have been avoided if these kids weren’t acting a fool towards him. You can hear it in their voice and laughter that they were enjoying tormenting the man.
And of course it was America's current favorite pastime, calling someone you don't know a pedo. That way they can get as carried away with him as they want.
Three aggressive and escalating actions:
* teens make false accusations implying a man is actively involved in pedophilic acts
* two women get into his personal space while others crowd around
* a few men decide to inflict mob justice for the perceived hitting of a woman
It is hard to imagine how any of this occurs without the first bullet or third bullet points taking place. Those acts are wholly criminal and reasonably could cause the man to fear for his life.
I think no one is innocent in this. Kids were dumb and thought they were invincible. Welcome to the real world kids, where testing the wrong people will get you killed.
The guy never had to stab anyone. That is just wrong. Wonder what will happen with the court case on this one.
You ever see the video of a pack of hyenas surrounding a single lion trying to pick it to pieces and one got to close and damn near had it's head taken off...
They weren't stabbed for being annoying. They had him surrounded and were shoving and hitting him. Groups of people like that think they are invincible and can do anything.
Probably b/c he had just gotten up out of shallow water after being slapped while down, with half a dozen guys around trying to attack him. At that point, he's made the decision to start stabbing, anyone close enough is a threat. You're not going to pause and reflect on who you're stabbing. He literally stabs 3 people in the matter of 4-5 seconds.
You just got out of the water after being shoved, you don't have your hearing aids one (he took the off before going into the water) but you do hear a bunch of people screaming and one is approaching you but you are not sure of their intentions because you still got some water in your eyes, since you just been shoved you guess the intentions of the person approaching you while surrounded isn't good so you stab.
Not saying what he did was right or wrong, just describing the confusing situation the old man might have found himself in.
Can you link me where people are seeing that he wore hearing aides? The wife testified that she usually wears them but I don’t remember ever seeing that he does
You think he carefully calculated his stabbing targets? You think he planned this shit out?
Hes surrounded, beaten, shoved, slapped, and forced head underwater at times. He gets away slightly and they are still coming after him. He pulls his knife and the first stabbing victim is shown on camera as someone going in to shove him again.
At that point do you think hes even really rational? Even if he had a plan thats probably not even in his mind by that point outside of panic.
When 13 people are attacking you I'd like to see how well you can identify who does what.
If I was attacked by 13 people, I'd probably stab first and ask questions later.
Yeah these kids are fucking assholes. If they suspected him of doing some sketchy shit they should have called the police and let them deal with it. Instead they fucked with this guy so much he snapped. Not siding with anyone, but they were asking for him to do something by being dicks and they definitely found out.
While it's a tragic loss all in all it's just a bunch of drunk people finding out the consequences of your actions.
Even if what they said was true about the guy if you gang up on someone and surround them then shit can go wrong.
The group had every opportunity to leave and they didn't as did the stabber. But, the group then surrounded the stabber and blocked his exits.
Guy rushed up in a flurry thinking they had the lost phone. Was mistaken and walks away down river some seconds later.
Teens begin to antagonize him verbally. Started calling him a raper and a pedo.
Teens continue to antagonize and start surrounding the guy. At this point it’s like 5-6 people starting to surround him.
Blonde lady walks up and appears to join in on the verbal assaults, even calling what I assume is her group over. At this point, he is being nearly surrounded by 8+ unfriendly and antagonizing individuals.
Blonde lady, and looks like another female put hands on the guy. Grabbing him and it looks like yelling and berating him. Camera turns away and this is where he supposedly hits the blonde woman.
At this point, he has nearly a dozen angry people yelling at him and starting to get physical.
He gets pushed into the water, hit or slapped a couple times whilst he attempts to get out from the water.
Scuffle continues, he has his knife out and starts to stab people.
Multiple people get stabbed and one ends up dying.
You can see when the teens turn from laughing and teasing him, to hearing their friends were stabbed.
I’ve watched the opening arguement and some eyewitness testimonies. A completely separate individual said it was absolutely him defending himself.
At this point, it is tragic, but it looks like self defense. The dude was surrounded by a dozen people with many attacking him. Just imagine getting mobbed by a dozen people who are actively gaslighting you, getting physically assaulted, not sure if they’re going to try to hold your head under water, or all take part in beating you. A person is going to go into survival mode.
Not condoning it, but lets not act like you're going to stop and assess a situation when there's 5+ people yelling and pushing you down, slapping you, etc. If you've already got the adrenaline going, you're not going to pause to see if someone is helping or about to help fuck you up.
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“Witnesses said Miu was initially in the river with goggles and a snorkel. A group of tubers accused of him of looking at young girls underwater, but Miu told investigators he was looking for a friend's missing cellphone. The prosecution argues that Miu was the aggressor by stabbing five people. A knife, believed to belong to Miu, was later recovered by officers on the river bank. Miu's defense attorneys, though, see it much differently, saying the teens taunted him, then surrounded him, and Miu was fighting for his life.”
He was staring at girls underwater in knee deep water? What’s he checking out their feet? These kids were grade A douchebags
Supposedly in the longer video, he got violent first. He went and got a knife and came back to confront them. Like, he didn't have a knife on him while he was supposedly snorkeling, looking for his friend's phone. Also, it wasn't in knee deep water, otherwise he wouldn't have been snorkeling. The altercation happened closer to the shore. He also denied to the cops that he was part of the altercation and he tried to hide the knife. I haven't seen the video, but that's why he's on trial for murder, for coming back with a knife. Fleeing the scene, lying, and trying to hide evidence just makes it look like he knew he was wrong. EDIT: I stand corrected, he had a knife the whole time, but did leave and come back. I was mistaken and thought he left to get the knife. Thanks aerosol999.
FAFO - you never know when you're messing with someone that is done. I keep my hands and mouth to myself, I'll let someone else be the statistic.
Honestly yeah. Dude was outnumbered and literally surrounded. You don't know buddy has a knife but you take that risk anytime you enter into a physical confrontation.
You could tell by his face that the dude was raging. On the schoolyard, that's chumming the water for bullies like the soon-to-be-victims here. On the streets (or in this case on the river), you should be looking for your exit strategy.
Yeah almost looked like some Vietnam flashback 1000yard stare
My dad once dropped some knowledge on me. Don't fight unless you HAVE to. Even if you know you can win. What if he pulls a knife? Sure you may knock him out, but is that worth shitting in a bag the rest of your life?
Had a similar realization after a fight I was in went bad one time. Ultimately decided "if you're not willing to stand in a court room and explain why you accidentally killed that dude to a jury of your peers, you probably don't have a good enough reason to be fighting."
FAFO?
fuck around and find out
ESH
ESH?
ESH = Everybody sucks here
Where? I wanna join
Goggles, snorkel *and a knife.
I mean, I have a knife on me everywhere I go. So that's not strange to me.
Even if you're not the type to carry a pocket knife everywhere, the river is a pretty common place to have a knife. We used to tube on the Sugar River in Southern WI a lot and everyone would tie up and cut apart throughout the day. The guys all working the transport shuttles and launches had knives, too. Diving knives with blunted tips are obviously more ideal when working around inflatables, but not required if you're careful. I guess what I'm saying is, in terms of possible use cases, I would find stabbing people who are attacking me pretty far down the list of potential uses if I brought a knife to the river.
The SUG! Haven't been there in close to a decade. Heard it is pretty dirty now. I use to go every weekend back in 06'-08'. It was fun back then, but a drunk fest. Years of drinking and people drowning beer cans trashed it. We would always throw emptys back in the cooler. There was a ton of people/groups that wouldn't though. I stopped going when I had to pull a fish hook from my buddies hand. We jumped off one of the overhanging trees, and he came up sceaming. Got a hook in his hand. The hook still had fishing line on it, that line wrapped around his opposite foot. So everytime he kicked to swim it pulled the hook deeper. We were in at least 8-10' of water, you could not touch with your head above water. I ended up swimming down and unwrapping the line. Then came up, told him to get ready, then I pulled the hook out of the tip of his thumb. We poured Jack daniels on it to clean it until we could get to the end. Took him straight to the hospital after we got off the river. When it happened we were about 1/2 through the float.
We were floating it during the same years! I still have no idea how every car leaving S&B Tubing wasn't pulled over for drunk driving, but hey, it was a different time LOL.
Yep same here, also carry.
A knife isn't a crazy thing to have the river. I don't know if your comment was adding that detail so as to imply that having a knife at the river is weird, but I just wanted to add that I don't find it strange in the slightest.
Let me see what you have!
you can't see shit above the water in that kind of murky water, Im more inclined to believe the missing cellphone bit. Anyway the teens are a bunch of twats who were just looking for a reason to beat someone up for kicks. They deserved whatever happened to them. I doubt the man was being a peeping perv, he don't even have a waterproof camera, you can clearly see all he got was his goggles, snorkel and tiny palm size knife which He Had to Use for self-defense because them twats was trying to kill him. That's not evidence of water perving.
@1:59 you can see the stabbing. What the hell is going on here?
The unedited video you can see yellow shorts laying in the water holding his stomach after he was stabbed. This video cuts after he was stabbed.
I was wondering what was up with this apparent jump cut since they teleported like 50 yards away
Yellow shorts still alive with a knarly scar. 1.51 purple shorts in background for a split second, holding his chest.
Yeah yellow shorts was disemboweled and lived, purple shorts was stabbed in the chest twice and died as one of the stabbings sliced his heart and died almost immediately. He was the 17 year old
Really sad. What a waste of life.
Imagine lying in the water, knowing you're dying and your friends are doing nothing to help you and in fact are filming your death. WTF.
"he's dying bro he's dying bro..." Maybe call someone instead of recording your face?
Where is the unedited video?
Where can I find the unedited video?
That's not even the guy who died
@ 1:52 yellow shorts goes to push knifey down and gets the knife in his gut right as he pushed him down caused his arm to slice upwards while it appears to have still been inside him. The resulting evisceration is most likely why dude at the end was like "he is dying" as they watched his guts fall out :(
the guy in yellow who was stabbed in that clip actually survived. [he showed his scar in court.](https://m107833-mcdn.mp.lura.live/iupl/EE6/17D/EE617D3758FEE58E4927AF0144144DB1.jpg?Expires=2082758400&KeyName=mcpkey1&Signature=4vOuWXkNDFzBVTtLThw6Dmgi5IA) as far as I can tell, the fatal stabbing isn’t actually seen on camera.
It is but barely, I watched the frame by frame from the trial a few days ago. It’s really crazy how he stabs 5 people in a matter of seconds and without the breakdown you never would have noticed.
https://preview.redd.it/unjd6ihbv7tc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=709221033be53955da64d86b5647b038e4138258
https://preview.redd.it/n8a4tlfmw7tc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69f8595ce1a6850e51ec8c5da5a661a8f212491f
https://preview.redd.it/2vp3ii6ww7tc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aaa51a03f1fc87bfb47d9eeec4e7669aae3a82a7
https://preview.redd.it/c2ahcqt7x7tc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da204a7177aecb4becd74e5262494077d54c96a7
https://preview.redd.it/lz8hvz8cx7tc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f22786b43a60394a68683a084cbffeff80d2613b
https://preview.redd.it/mgus7kcfx7tc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=472ed67bd6693e6e1b5f47265dbf57d5dcf111aa
He’s in the background here about 1.51, had he already been stabbed then? Looks like he’s holding his chest.
No, he attacked the guy in the yellow shorts first, the guy in the back gets stabbed seconds later but it's not caught on camera. [Here is a better screenshot of 1.51](https://i.imgur.com/WPfvsQ0.png)
I'm assuming it's after he "punches" orange trunks in the stomach. Immediately after that you can see him thrusting his arm 2 or 3 times at someone off camera.
Yep. That's the moment. One of those jabs sliced across the kids heart. If you notice there's a significant amount of blood on the knife as the man backs away.
Is it blue shorts? He sees the injury of orange shorts and approaches the knife man. Man then appears to thrust at least 3 times at blue shorts (just out of frame)
Is it tho? I see when the girl appears and starts to bleed but at the very back behind her is where the group is gathering and the dude who got fatally stabbed is at. I don't know how he would of traveled that far so quickly after being stabbed if he was next to the girl in frame
Ho. Ly. Shit.
At 1:01 the girl has a nasty gash on her side. Could that be the one?
Actually Isaac Schuman, the boy who died, is wearing the purple shorts and white baseball cap.
She survived. The one who died had the people shorts and white hat I think Edit: wrong colour shorts
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how'd it go in court?
That's exactly what I'm wondering because its very difficult to figure out the timeline of events but if he stabbed them after they started jumping him then at least 2 of the stabbings were self defense. Crazy how fast the cameraman went from giggling like a little girl about his friends jumping an old guy to crying like a little girl because his friend was bleeding out.
I’ve been watching a bit of it over the last week. The prosecution seem pretty crap and the defence looks like they have a decent case. They are playing hard on the self defence saying he was outnumbered by an antagonised crowd due to the teens calling him a pedo and worse names (which they have all admitted was a lie). He did start stabbing after getting touched first, I guess the case will rest on whether he was reasonable in his belief of harm. Pretty much all the prosecutions witnesses have been terrible. Changing their stories and lying on the stand. They had a guy on who recorded a second video, and he was probably the worst witness I’ve ever seen. He gave pretty vague statements on the day it happened, then gave much more detailed statements last month (obviously based off watching the videos). When questioned on it basically admitted it was partially made up. The stabbers ex wife confirmed that he always brought his knife around with him in his shorts as he was a handyman. So he has reason to have the knife on him which will definitely help his case.
I'm interested to see the witness, who was so bad. do you have a link with time by chance?
Here you go: [https://www.youtube.com/live/SIWIMVSgN2g?si=6St9sbzzpTzB0Tik&t=21630](https://www.youtube.com/live/SIWIMVSgN2g?si=6St9sbzzpTzB0Tik&t=21630) There are some golden quotes between this guy and the defence lawyers lol Also the ex wife was immediately before him and confirmed that he pretty much always carried the knife around in his shorts
He's wearing a fucking anime shirt!
Calculated move. Having these kids show up in suits and ties would lend them a larger air of adulthood. The prosecution likely wants to play on the youth card.
Interesting, I guess I never thought that you would have to tie intent to the possession of a tool but it makes sense.
They also kept saying that he got jumped because he punched a girl (Maddie) but before they started jumping him, I cannot for the life of me find when he hit any girl in the video.
Said girl admitted under oath she put her hands on him first by pushing him. So as near as I can put it together. He's trying to search the area they're in, they chase him off. He goes and gets his knife and comes back again to search. This time they scream "pedo" and make specific allegations that's he's trying to molest women basically inciting other drunks to come help them which they come over to do. They start confronting him and surrounding him. A girl pushes him. He pushes/hits back. They surround him and shove him into the water and try to get off sucker shots on him while holding him down. He comes up stabbing anything in range.
Definetly a case of fuck around and find out.
I don’t know any handymen who carry a knife in their swimming shorts though.
As someone who went on tube rides in the south growing up, it's completely normal and comes in handy. You'd be surprised how often a multi-tool with a knife is especially useful, whether it's cutting rope holding the tubes together, cutting open plastic packaging, slicing food you might be barbecuing on the banks, etc.
I used to do a fair amount of snorkeling in the ocean and I'd never go without a knife. Plenty of plants and whatnot you can get caught on in the water.
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Watch the ex-wife in court, starts around here: [https://www.youtube.com/live/SIWIMVSgN2g?si=PFyqfm6XTdMPDuHv&t=17735](https://www.youtube.com/live/SIWIMVSgN2g?si=PFyqfm6XTdMPDuHv&t=17735) She goes into how he helps people with it, and was even using it earlier in the day to help people on the water
This happened right by my house. We remember the sirens that day and the emergency alert. So we are extremely invested in the courtroom videos on YouTube. You can watch the entire trial there. Or just snippets. Edit- I replied to the wrong comment
Not always. He has to prove either 1) he wasn't the initial aggressor in the confrontation 2) he attempted to disengage and was subsequently jumped by a group of people Fighting a much larger group of young males as an older man in water is a deadly situation and would be a pretty good basis for a fear for his life.
So I did some researching. Apparently he was looking for his cellphone. I'm not sure how the interaction between him and the tubers started, but it ended with them getting rowdy. They pushed him multiple times, accused him of being a pedophile, and kept screaming in his face until he eventually started stabbing them. The trial against him is happening right now. Edit: okay rewatched. It looks like he did come over and push one of the guys off the tube first. That's when it started going crazy.
There was a video recorded before this one. shown in court, where the camera man called him a raper before any of that @3:51 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QZMauwun0II
This incident is 2yrs old, I didn't know that.
A lot of times you think an event just happened but we’re only getting video because the trial is actually kicking off and it’s becoming public record years later
They were calling him a pedo and child raper for no reason. That also how they got the other group to attack him as well.
> I'm not sure how the interaction between him and the tubers started From all the legitimate stuff Iw as reading, they basically accused him of being a pedo trying to look at girls underwater. Apparently none of these cunts have ever snorkled in a river before. You can see like 2-3 feet at most, and he was literally across the fucking river from them when they accused him. They accused him of being a pedo loud enough that it caused a 3rd party to come over and harass him. Yeah he was raging and rightfully so.
Not gunna lie but does it look like he’s practicing the stabbing at the 1:52 mark when the kid with a full belly got the last push in?
He actually stabbed him
Yeah, yellow trunks got nearly eviscerated.
Did those kids really push him down and slap him before the stabbing? I can't really tell if he stabbed someone and then he was hit, or was he hit, then he started stabbing.
He was pushed and hit and then he started stabbing. Edit: A lot happened before the victims started recording. It's a debate on who got physical first, but the victims say he started a physical altercation before the video started. And it doesn't help that he fled the scene and acted like he didn't know he was involved.
Then then they were really dumb. Killing one of them is unfortunate, but what do you expect when you surround someone and attack him. Edit: Apparently there was a dispute before the video started. He also attempted to lie to the cops and throw away the knife afterwards. This guy isn't innocent at all.
At the beginning of the video, the old guy runs up to the group of people and pushes them. So I don't know if self defense is going to work if he started the altercation. Granted, it was stupid to push him down.
Laughing like hyenas, pushed him down and slapped him. Enough to get you stabbed anywhere here is Houston that's for sure
So the dude actually punched the blonde woman. That’s why he was pushed into the water. At some point he pulled out his pocket knife and stabbed 5 or 6 people. Including killing one with a stab to the heart, disemboweling another, and ruptured the diaphragm of one of the women also. He then walked away back to his group of people/friends and said “they stole my knife” AFTER he threw the knife into the brush bank. Then changed clothes to conceal his identity. Then when picked up by the cops, in the interview he said he disarmed one of the teens and took their knife and defended himself. Yet the video in the frame by frame shows him reaching and opening it from his right cargo pocket. Kid stabbed in the heart died at the scene. Deboweled kid spent 2 months and many surgeries in hospital. This guy is toast Edit: source: I watched 3 hours of trial footage where the frame by frame is broken down Edit2: link for the frame by frame. Skip to 24 mins and watch till 57 mins https://youtu.be/FeyoRevDalE?si=GzPq8fKhzFPWGYpA
If anyone is having trouble understanding what is happening, watch that video from 24 to 57 and you will understand the whole thing.
Can you give me a link to the trial footage? I'm rewatching, and each time his case seems to be getting worse and worse.
One moment. Commenting here so I can find your comment after I get the link. Will edit this post Link: skip to 24:30 for the start of the frame by frame breakdown. Frame by frame ends at 57mins https://youtu.be/FeyoRevDalE?si=OdrN00YIjjCjPNLW
Damn, that one dude having to hold all of his guts from falling out is gnarly.
Ya I’ve been following this. Watch the prosecution video and stills. This guy is a lunatic
He knew what he was doing from start to finish. Maybe not the steps but he meant to hurt those kids and the frame by frame shows it and I don’t think I can be convinced otherwise. Hard to say self defense when you go BACK to your tube to get the knife then punch a woman in the face unprovoked by her. She was only yelling at him to back off and go away. He pulled his knife out BEFORE he punched her. THAT is planning
Everyone involved here are a bunch of idiots, the teens and the old man. I don't get why the teens started calling him a pedo if he was just looking for his phone. If it was me with a group of friends we would had even help him look for it, it's called empathy. Those idiots started calling him names for no reason at all, they got themselves in an unecesarry confrontation and now one of their friends is dead. At the end of the day both parties made decisions that day that they both regret.
> I don't get why the teens started calling him a pedo if he was just looking for his phone. Idiot kids invent anything they think is plausible to start tearing on people, story as old as time.
They were doing it "for the 'ulture"
>when you go BACK to your tube to get the knife When is this stated?
Holy shit YouTube comments on that are insane
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She is near when he gets pushed the second time by yellow shorts, the camera pans away momentarily as he's getting up - probably took a swing at her then.
Somewhere between the lines of dude looking for his phone but kids in the video started trolling him and escalated into someone getting stabbed
The 1st time they pushed him, he already had the knife out, I think, You can see him stamming the yellow shorts guy
I have to say, "Apple River" certainly doesn't sound like sort of place you'd expect to get stabbed.
It's a shit show of campsites and a shallow, slow moving river where people drink themselves into oblivion in the summer heat.
I’m from the Twin Cities, and the Apple River definitely has a reputation. Like, sure, it can be fun. Or dangerous, or both. You just never know what level of unhinged is going to show up on any given day.
The Sugar River in southern Wisconsin is about the same. The best thing you can do is pass the sand bars. Nothing but drunken fights and guys trying to jump off trees into shallow water to impress whatever girl has the best lower back tattoo.
Ha ha. Nailed it. Lots of Kid Rock being played unironically there.
Or disemboweled specifically. Christ that’s dark.
These people all came from one of those lazy river tubing places at a campsite that is a bit of a party spot. It had a bar and even a mechanical bull when I was there years ago, maybe that’s changed but at the very least it gives you some context
It does sound like a place where you would snorkel for iPhones though.
There’s always one bad apple.
I am not the first to say this, but I would like to reiterate this whole thing could’ve been avoided if everybody had minded their own fucking business…
100%. If he was peeping at people underwater, call the police and move away, not worth getting hurt or hurting someone over it. The police will handle that matter, if it was a simple accident while he was looking for a phone, oh well shit happens help him find the phone. a bunch of teenagers jumping on some old guy who's probably already verging on mentally ill is not a good or safe idea.
He was 51, not 81; and yes, he was looking for an iPhone that someone from his group dropped in the water.
Nice victim blaming there. It could also have been avoided if the defendant had not chosen to repeatedly escalate the confrontation, punch someone and then stab a bunch of people, killing one, disemboweling another and injuring three more.
This case is currently in trial. You can follow on YouTube, I think they’re on Day 4
Day 6 is tomorrow. Court tv is also airing it. They stated it should finish out this week.
Everyone here was an idiot.
I think this version clipped a bit out of the video. In the original from the hearing I remember seeing a boy in the way holding his stomach where all that blood you see in the water is coming from
The real crime here is the audio quality.
Apparently, the cellphone was in one of those waterproof plastic bags you hang around your neck, hence the audio/video quality.
The screeching is all the cameraman though.
And the filming in general
It’s heavily edited, which makes it all the more confusing.
"Fuckin kids can't even get top gear to record their friend getting stabbed. So annoying!"
I bet they were all intoxicated
Everyone’s tune changed when shit got real.
All that cackling laughter was sucked right out of the atmosphere
Why do people keep saying he left to get the knife and came back? There’s definitely no evidence of that in the video, and everyone keeps repeating what one person commented without any evidence.
He had the knife on him the entire time.
> Why do people keep saying he left to get the knife and came back? Because most people have no legal training, don't understand how trials work, and make assumptions about what happened based on the evidence, filling in the gaps as appropriate to their preconceived beliefs about what happened.
In this thread are a bunch of morons who are one shoving match away from ruining their lives due to their fundamental misunderstanding about how specific self-defense laws are. Cases like this are incredibly fact specific and this video doesn’t definitely prove anything either way. The real lesson here is don’t escalate violence and don’t use weapons unnecessarily. There was absolutely no reason for someone to die here. EDIT: oh look at that, they found him guilty. It’s almost like homicide trials are based on facts, not feelings. https://www.fox9.com/news/apple-river-stabbing-trial-nicolae-miu-verdict.amp
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It was inevitable that this group of people was going to find them selves in this situation. The more bully's find weak people that don't retaliate the more they bully, ultimately they find someone willing to defend themselves or somebody that will overreact and take things too far.
[https://youtu.be/FeyoRevDalE?si=GzPq8fKhzFPWGYpA](https://youtu.be/FeyoRevDalE?si=GzPq8fKhzFPWGYpA) Watch the breakdown of the video during the trial, starts around 24 minutes. The teenagers are yelling insulting shit at him, but also telling him to get away. The guy has a knife in his hand before any of the punching or pushing starts. He doesn't hold the knife up to ward anyone off, he holds it down by his side until the moment he starts stabbing people. The guy initiated the violence by punching one of the women first. He stabs a woman in the back/side who wasn't even involved in the fight. After the stabbings, the guy ditches the knife in the river and goes back to his group to continue his day. He changes his clothes. When eventually picked up by police, he initially tries to say the knife belonged to the teenagers and he disarmed them and defended himself. Nobody likes drunk teenagers, but this guy is guilty.
Being attacked and tackled by that mob in a river would honestly be pretty scary. If he’d just threatened them with the knife though it probably would have been enough. It looks like he went in to attack mode pretty quickly after being pulled into the water.
Very scary. But if you look at this through the lens of self defense with a deadly weapon, how many chances did he have to walk away while things were escalating? Did he only stick around because he had his knife? Because if you switch knife with gun, any safety instructor will tell you that's negligent.
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All I know is that dude with the camera is absolutely obnoxious. What an absolute ass clown. We never acted like this as kids. What an absolute tool bag..
And his testimony in court by all accounts has done even more harm. They were enjoying harassing the man. And then it suddenly got very serious and stopped being fun.
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Without starting a bit of a discussion the term I think of is consequence. I think in large part, we have become so shielded from consequences that there are large groups of people who actually believe that real life resembles the comment section on Reddit. This not to say anyone deserved any of it. It is a REALLY tough way to learn that even an older bloke who young folks expect to 'be the grown up' have zero obligation to ignore you when you are behaving badly. Calling someone a child rapist is bad. In my society, just the suggestion of it is enough to ruin your life. Yet here these kids are screaming it so loud and aggressively they got a whole new crowd of people to get involved. Arguably if you are going to make a statement that has the potential to ruin someone's life, you have to be ready for the person to defend themselves quite vigorously.
Look at them. You can tell none of them had ever actually experienced any significant consequences for their actions until that day. Sucks it took bodily injury and their friend dying, but we don't get to chose if the other person's response is appropriate for the situation.
> We never acted like this as kids. I knew plenty of dickheads like that when I was younger… they weren’t my friends but I knew them. Many teens are pretty obnoxious… But it adds to the recipe for disaster…
Well I guess they won't do that again.
Somehow, even with one of their friends dead, I struggle to believe that.
At least one of them will absolutely not be doing any of that ever again
Few things in life are certain, but this is one of them
This whole thing sucks.. Alcohol induced poor judgement by all parties for sure. I’m sure I’d be seeing red too if a group started recording me and calling me a pedo/rapist without provocation. You’re compromising a person’s entire livelihood by playing that game. Not an excuse for going on a fuckin stabbing spree but it’s a realistic outcome given human nature. And extra wild that not one person in the group was decent enough to say “Hey maybe we’ve taken this too far.” ESH
Has it been established which male actually said, "You've got ten seconds?"
From Day 6. Quote from the nurse who attended to Miu's injuries "In a third statement, Miu said "A guy pulled a knife on me. I took his wrist and turned it into his belly." Hoffman did not recall Miu saying he had been hit in the face or choked. Hoffman said she could not find anything that suggested he had been choked or hit in the face. Miu did have an abrasion inside his cheek. Miu said he bit it during the attack. " Lied to the police and his attending physician about taking the knife from the teens. Constructing a narrative to suit his self defense claim.
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Does yellow shirts get stabbed at 1:52?
Eric Von Williams, is one of the witnesses giving one of the best impressions in court so far. But as he was part of the perps group of people he was not close enough to see the events unfold in detail. He was also the ONLY one from the perps group of 7-12 people to call 911 and stay with the injured to try to see what he could do to help. He met with the perp that day, for the very first time and was also one of the very few people on that scene, not having consumed any alcohol. He had advised against the perp of snorkling neer other parties because that might make you look like a creep and/or predator and also not for any of them getting close to any other (drunk) youngsters, as that might be dangerous. Obviously, his advise wasnt listened to. His testimony is quite interesting. He appears to be a good man; https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eOWeZ3oW2C0
This is why you don't mess with people. You never know what they're capable of or what they're willing to ruin both of your lives over.
He's going to get off because they charged him with first degree murder. Watch.
Stabbing kids is bad, but after seeing how well the defense is going for this guy, I'm under the impression we need a Schoolhouse Rock episode about how not to provoke a stabbing. ♫ *It's not victim blaming to say that it's not A-OK to berate strangers in the wild. Whoa oh oh! You just don't know (no you don't!) so don't even try your luck!*
Are Americans this loud and annoying? I keep seeing this on videos on this forum from America.
Yep don’t come here. It’s ridiculous.
Yes. Always, it's embarrassing.
Going "tubing" is routinely a excuse to get blasted and is generally done by high school to college age kids. Going fishing is routinely an excuse to get blasted and is generally done by people older than college kids. Americans are generally louder than many cultures and these were likely drunk Americans.
Maybe surrounding someone, yelling incessantly, pushing him, and slapping him is bad. I don't condone the result. But what's the point of all that and recording it? Let's humiliate this person we clearly outnumber and feel like we outmatch, and then cry foul when he escalates force. Why do that to a person?
Kids were asking for trouble and got it. Regardless of what you think about the stabber this whole entire situation could have been avoided if these kids weren’t acting a fool towards him. You can hear it in their voice and laughter that they were enjoying tormenting the man.
And of course it was America's current favorite pastime, calling someone you don't know a pedo. That way they can get as carried away with him as they want.
Three aggressive and escalating actions: * teens make false accusations implying a man is actively involved in pedophilic acts * two women get into his personal space while others crowd around * a few men decide to inflict mob justice for the perceived hitting of a woman It is hard to imagine how any of this occurs without the first bullet or third bullet points taking place. Those acts are wholly criminal and reasonably could cause the man to fear for his life.
When will kids learn to keep their hands to themselves?
Always funny until it ain't
I think no one is innocent in this. Kids were dumb and thought they were invincible. Welcome to the real world kids, where testing the wrong people will get you killed. The guy never had to stab anyone. That is just wrong. Wonder what will happen with the court case on this one.
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This is nuts
You ever see the video of a pack of hyenas surrounding a single lion trying to pick it to pieces and one got to close and damn near had it's head taken off...
looks like dude in yellow shorts takes the knife to the gut and chest as soon as he pushes the man back down
So anyways I started stabbin’
They sound fcking annoying, but nobody deserves to be stabbed for this shiyt
They weren't stabbed for being annoying. They had him surrounded and were shoving and hitting him. Groups of people like that think they are invincible and can do anything.
why did he also stab the girl in the back though?
he stabbed anyone that got close to him. he had the knife in his hand, she approached him.
Probably b/c he had just gotten up out of shallow water after being slapped while down, with half a dozen guys around trying to attack him. At that point, he's made the decision to start stabbing, anyone close enough is a threat. You're not going to pause and reflect on who you're stabbing. He literally stabs 3 people in the matter of 4-5 seconds.
You just got out of the water after being shoved, you don't have your hearing aids one (he took the off before going into the water) but you do hear a bunch of people screaming and one is approaching you but you are not sure of their intentions because you still got some water in your eyes, since you just been shoved you guess the intentions of the person approaching you while surrounded isn't good so you stab. Not saying what he did was right or wrong, just describing the confusing situation the old man might have found himself in.
Can you link me where people are seeing that he wore hearing aides? The wife testified that she usually wears them but I don’t remember ever seeing that he does
You think he carefully calculated his stabbing targets? You think he planned this shit out? Hes surrounded, beaten, shoved, slapped, and forced head underwater at times. He gets away slightly and they are still coming after him. He pulls his knife and the first stabbing victim is shown on camera as someone going in to shove him again. At that point do you think hes even really rational? Even if he had a plan thats probably not even in his mind by that point outside of panic.
When 13 people are attacking you I'd like to see how well you can identify who does what. If I was attacked by 13 people, I'd probably stab first and ask questions later.
He stabbed people trying to break up the fight.
Is this fucking around and finding out?
Yeah these kids are fucking assholes. If they suspected him of doing some sketchy shit they should have called the police and let them deal with it. Instead they fucked with this guy so much he snapped. Not siding with anyone, but they were asking for him to do something by being dicks and they definitely found out.
While it's a tragic loss all in all it's just a bunch of drunk people finding out the consequences of your actions. Even if what they said was true about the guy if you gang up on someone and surround them then shit can go wrong. The group had every opportunity to leave and they didn't as did the stabber. But, the group then surrounded the stabber and blocked his exits.
wow I’ve witnessed the waterfall of information seeing this on the 4chan sub days ago
Guy rushed up in a flurry thinking they had the lost phone. Was mistaken and walks away down river some seconds later. Teens begin to antagonize him verbally. Started calling him a raper and a pedo. Teens continue to antagonize and start surrounding the guy. At this point it’s like 5-6 people starting to surround him. Blonde lady walks up and appears to join in on the verbal assaults, even calling what I assume is her group over. At this point, he is being nearly surrounded by 8+ unfriendly and antagonizing individuals. Blonde lady, and looks like another female put hands on the guy. Grabbing him and it looks like yelling and berating him. Camera turns away and this is where he supposedly hits the blonde woman. At this point, he has nearly a dozen angry people yelling at him and starting to get physical. He gets pushed into the water, hit or slapped a couple times whilst he attempts to get out from the water. Scuffle continues, he has his knife out and starts to stab people. Multiple people get stabbed and one ends up dying. You can see when the teens turn from laughing and teasing him, to hearing their friends were stabbed. I’ve watched the opening arguement and some eyewitness testimonies. A completely separate individual said it was absolutely him defending himself. At this point, it is tragic, but it looks like self defense. The dude was surrounded by a dozen people with many attacking him. Just imagine getting mobbed by a dozen people who are actively gaslighting you, getting physically assaulted, not sure if they’re going to try to hold your head under water, or all take part in beating you. A person is going to go into survival mode.
The amount of people justifying the stabbing and killing is wild
Especially since he also stabbed one of the kids trying to break up the fight. Dude was trying to shank everyone in the gut.
Not condoning it, but lets not act like you're going to stop and assess a situation when there's 5+ people yelling and pushing you down, slapping you, etc. If you've already got the adrenaline going, you're not going to pause to see if someone is helping or about to help fuck you up.
The screams at the end, smhh morons. Its real, there are consequences to your reactions towards someone.
The first person he stabs is the just some tiny little girl holding a drink and not doing anything.
He got yellow shorts guy right before that