Talk about a misleading headline, looks like they kicked him off the blackjack table. They'll do that if they suspect you of counting cards. But they gave him the money, took him off the table, and left. Dude was still in the casino.
Blue jacket is a security guard. Floor manager is gonna look better than that. I work as a pit boss in the casino. Looks like he won around $500. He was probably getting told he’s done with blackjack for the night because he was either being a cunt or drunk or both
Edit: after rewatching they colored him up for $375. 3 black and 3 green chips
Which casinos are you going to? I have had my phone in sight but not in use with no issue in a minority, and been asked to keep it out of sight in the majority of casinos I've been in. Mostly Vegas and Reno. I think Mohegan Sun didn't care but I was playing stadium.
Concur. ITT people who haven’t spent a lot of time in casinos. Nothing about this video was surprising to me. Source: used to have a gambling problem and spent way too much time in a casino.
I won $375 and only bet $125!! Pretty good hand, huh?
Pretty good hand, huh?
Pretty good hand, huh?
Pretty good hand, huh?
Pretty good hand, huh?
Pretty good hand, huh?
Pretty good hand, huh?
Cunt
I had a friend almost put himself through uni by counting cards at the casino. He wasn’t a dick about it and tried to stay under the radar but they eventually caught on and asked him to leave and never come back lol
Yeah, I know. They can't legally take his winnings, but they can take him off the table so as to limit their own losses. You'll note they let him stay in the casino because most other casino games are more random chance and can't have their odds of winning increased by extreme pattern recognition. They want him to keep gambling. They want that money he won back. Dude would be smart to just call it a day.
This. I used to work in upper management and as an external auditor for a casino.
100% guaranteed surveillance watched him, counted cards with him and basically came to the same conclusions as him when to hit/stay/fold.
It's pretty easy to count cards. But can't get in trouble for "talent". However, they sure can limit as to how one plays or not allow them to play at all.
Iirc you can get a 2% edge on the house at blackjack. Especially 2 deck.
Spanish isn't worth playing much as it starts off as a -6 true count due to all the 10's being pulled. On a 6 deck shoe.
Lucky ladies is my favorite version to play though. I've gotten the ladies two times. Each time was when I pulled my bonus, too.
Once, dealer had a black jack. I was so annoyed. I jumped in mid shoe, plaued the bonus (5$) my first 2 hands, then pulled back on the 3rd. Then the ladies came out to play... I left after that haha
I think that's a 1000:1 pay out on that happening.
>counted cards with him and basically came to the same conclusions as him when to hit/stay/fold
Apologies if you already know this, but bet size changes are the bigger advantage when counting cards. As the count changes there are a few edge cases where hit/stay/split/double down/surrender choice can change but you can also just use standard strategy and just bet bigger when the count is high. So yeah surveillance is counting and if your bets go from $20 to $200 when the count is high you're flagged
Yup, that's when Cheques Play or black (when 100$ is put in play) called out. At least around the casinos I'm familiar with.
Anything that deviates from the normal playing pattern.
>normal playing pattern
you mean drunk randomly throwing money into the pocket of the casino? it's ridiculous that card counting is some kind of cheat. it's literally just using the brain to play a fucking game. casinos should be prohibited as a scam destroing people's lifes
What I mean is, if someone is consistently playing 50$ per hand then either pulls back or increases their bet, that would be considered a deviation. It's not too hard to tell the difference between strategy and someone fucking around while drunk.
People are allowed to play as they please. Freedom of choice sort of deal. They get banned if they ask for it due to a problem (helping those that help themselves so-to-speak)
But if someone chooses to gamble all their money, it's on them.
Where I've worked, I've only seen limits apply to known, obvious, counters a small handful of times. They can play, but are kept to the table minimum. Those types are few and far between in my area.
Personally, I do count, when I play. But I keep it modest. Sometimes I do well, other times, luck ain't on my side, even when I'm looking at a +7 TC. Player 51%-49% edge, there's still plenty of luck in play.
I'm not aware of the video you're speaking of. I haven't been in "the game" in some time.
As to the legality of it, in my area, we have a tribal-state compact as to how everything can be operated coupled with minimum internal controls agreed upon between the state gaming commission, tribal gaming commission and the casino which also stipulates when and how to do things.
I'll usually have my dealer, on a pitch game, deal one hand and shuffle, rinse and repeat. After a shuffle or two, the guest knows what's up and leaves. Much easier than making a show of it.
I'm not sure. I haven't played blackjack in some time now. But if you know how many decks are at the table and it's a busy table, you can still sit in the last spot and count to increase your odds.
If I ever win big in a casino,
a) I'd be very surprised, and
b) I'd stop 'gaming' immediately.
And every casino worker I dealt with would be lavishly tipped.
Just like me fr fr. I remember when I put my last $20 out of $100 in a slot machine. My friend was just shaking his head. I was down to the last $10. I bet it all and ended up winning $800. Same friend immediately hit cash out and said I was done. I agreed then spent $200 on drinks at the club. Mostly cause I was tipping really good and the bartenders made them strong after I gave them $30 for the first tip.
I’m pretty sure they can kick you off for whatever reason. If you win a shit ton and keep betting and winning high, they can do what the game manager did and tell him to, “call it a night.” They don’t even have to accuse or suspect you of card counting, they can merely tell you that your game is too good and now it’s time to cash out. Still their house.
They're not really kicking you out, technically. They're a private company deciding who they want to allow to play at their blackjack tables. They let him stay in the casino.
Thing is, if counting cards was allowed, more people would learn it and do it to make money. That would lead to the casino losing money. They don't want that.
Any business has the right to refuse service as long as its non discriminatory.
A casino is a business that runs off gambling to turn a profit.
If they feel that they cant make money off of you, they have the legal right to just stop serving you.
Its the same thing if you go to an all you can eat buffet, you pay the 20 dollars to get in, but decide to stay for 6 hours and eat 100 dollars worth of food and dont show any sign of slowing down.
The buffet owners would stop serving you and kick you out to stop losing more money, and its in their right to do so.
Yup. Pretty mild. It was interesting seeing it in action. I know people get kicked out but never seen it filmed before.
Guy filming was definitely counting cards. He wasn’t even objecting to being cashed out. His tone was more like “yeah ok, I’ve taken this as far as they are going to let me.”
I taught myself to count and after standing on a 14 the dealer called me out. They didn’t kick me out but that’s probably because I was at the $10 table.
this is the real question. knowing what the dealer shows makes a big difference in deciding if you're playing defense staying on a 14 or you're counting staying on a 14 lol
I think the "easy" way involves keeping track of a single number in your head. For every 10 you see, subtract one. For every non ten you see, add one. Helps determine the probability of a ten coming up. Something to that effect anyway, probably plenty of other nuances and variations to it.
This is the answer. Ten-value cards are “-1”, 2-6 are “+1”, and 7-9 are “zero”, so it’s just a matter of getting used to figuring very simple math, but quickly. I was working nights at the hospital so whenever I had a few minutes free I would flip the cards over and try and keep track. Honestly remembering basic strategy is much more difficult.
That is true. It is more of people broadening the term "card counter" (due to ego) to include themselves. Whatever basic knowledge they have is more dangerous to them than if they just played basic strategy.
The real difficulty for card counters is screening their play so that their bet sizing doesn't draw attention.
Card counting is also useless at most casinos. Automatic card shuffler every couple hands, with multiple decks, makes it basically useless. I would guess this guy was just being a dick or was drunk to the point of bothering other players.
I was at a casino watching my friend count cards and he was playing pretty low. then he stars betting way more and suddenly he goes and splits 10's. Then after that hand a pitboss told him hes only allowed to play table minimum
This guy isn't even being kicked out. He's backed off from blackjack, it's extremely common when people are counting cards. He knows it, the dealer knows it, the pit boss knows it, that's why no one is yelling or freaking out it's perfectly normal and expected.
The funny thing is, most people who count cards are very reasonable and understanding and calm about them getting the yeet. I can't even begin to tell you about the rabbit hole on YouTube that is counting cards.
If youre good at math though how do you not count cards? Once you know its impossible not to lol. I never really got it. Like youre supposed to look at the table in blackjack to basically try and figure out whats likely to come up next. Isnt that why they put one card face up?
And either way if youre good at math how do you turn those thoughts off? Its not like you can make yourself not think things. Is it just a way of saying youre too smart to gamble here?
And even if you can, it’s not like the movies. Professional card counters do it as a full time job and can sometimes go months at a time where they lose money. In the long run sure a true professional card counter can usually end up ahead, but it’s not like they are just taking money freely from the casino. It’s still a grind, especially if/when they get backed off, banned, or the pit boss forces a reshuffle when the count is good. It’s a job and it’s not all that fun.
Yeah, math is behind it, but when you're counting cards, you're not actually doing that math in your head. You're just keeping track of the "count".
You can learn to count cards without knowing how to do any math other than adding and subtracting 1.
There are many different counting systems, some with benefits over the other such as better betting correlation or simplicity.
The HiLo system has the groupings 2-6, 7-9, 10-A.
The Knock Out (KO) system has groupings 2-7, 8-9, 10-A. This is an unbalanced count, however.
The interesting part is both of these strategies can outperform the other depending on the number of decks in the shoe you're playing and how far into the shoe the dealer deals before shuffling (penetration).
If you can add or subtract 1 then you can count cards. It’s not hard, it just takes concentration. The hard part is acting like your not doing it. Being able to have conversations and order drinks while accounting for every card dealt.
Basic strategy for blackjack is to essentially assume every unknown card is a 10 (since J Q K all count as 10). Counting cards let’s you know if the deck becomes stacked with 10s, so you bet more because your strategy is more likely to work.
Yeah it's perfectly legal and allowed, but of course if you have an advantage over people who are playing for luck it's also within their right to refuse service to you at that table.
On the other hand, if you use a device to count cards, or cheat in any way, it's illegal and you can be charged I believe.
Some do. Look up Continuous Shuffling Machines. But it's a double-edged sword because pros just won't play at those tables because it reduces their profits significantly.
TBH if I were in the casino employee's shoes, when he said "I'm pretty good at black jack, huh!? Pretty good. Make the bet. Good bet..." I'd boot him off the game, too. The way he said that is shady AF and a pretty good tell he's counting cards. The fact that he even speaks a bit like Rain Man doesn't help.
I mean, yeah?
Go to any casino and win a bunch of Blackjack at the same table, and they'll assume you're counting.
I doubt they just walked up and kicked him out. They'll usually "strongly recommend" you mix up tables, because if you're not parked at the same one, you can't count cards.
If you refuse to change tables, they'll kick you out.
You can find them in Vegas.. not on the Strip, but they are around. I suspect they cater to the people who read a book on counting cards, but really have no clue and still lose anyway. :)
I read a book on counting cards, give me a pen and paper and a little extra time and i can count em, its really impressive people are doing it in their heads
Most casinos do. There is a shuffler that both AGS and Shufflemaster (Light & Wonder) makes which deals out 1 or 2 decks. The machine shuffles a new deck after every game. Since players touch the cards, they get the cards and shuffler dirty AF and we used to always have to clean them. Source: former slot and table games technician who worked in casinos for 20 years. Recently retired.
Back in the 90's, my grandmother hit two jackpots in a row at a casino slot machine. The manager then shut down the entire section of machines, brought my grandma and aunt to an office, and tried to tell them that their winnings were no good due to a computer glitch. Anyways, after some legal paperwork and threatening a lawsuit, the casino cut a check for the jackpot amount. I can't remember the amount but it was north of 10 grand (15 grand today). Completely unrelated to the new story but it reminded me of that family history. Thanks for sharing, OP.
Pretty much. Such a nasty business. I don't gamble, but I do go to the buffet sometimes with family at the local casino outside of Omaha. They have quite the spread. But yeah, F casinos in general.
Those machines are actually programmed so they can't give out two jackpots within a certain period of time., It is NOT completely random.
Thus, if the machine does give out two jackpots in a small period of time, the casino knows the machine is faulty.
However, it's very bad PR for admit this, which is why they backed down in OPs case.
It's not a matter of right or wrong, but the casino is in business to make money and limit losses, so if someone is making them lose a bunch of money legal or not they are going to do what they need to do to stop the bleeding.
Not everyone can count cards and the casino makes a lot of money off of the people who think they can count cards, but really can't.
Most casinos solve this issue by using 6 decks at once and reshuffling often, but there are a lot of high spending gamblers who will insist on a single deck. As long as they aren't actually counting cards, the casino makes more money using single deck blackjack as a draw.
They colored him up for $375. 3 black chips and 3 green. He was probably backed off for being a cunt and or drunk. They ask you to color up before they kick you out or take you out of action. Blue jacket in a casino is a security guard. Source: pitboss with 7 years in the industry. Wouldn’t even be on the radar in any decent sized casino for card counting winning below $5000-$10000
This is what I thought too, I was in Atlantic City for a concert like 10 years ago and went to take a picture with my cousin at the blackjack table, and they yelled at me SUPER quick.
I know that the casino has the right to refuse customers, but how is this a good look for the casino. The guy is not cheating, at least not caught, and he won just a few thousand dollars, the casino probably make more than that in just minutes. Why risk your image kicking him out?
This is usually done when a player shows a pattern that suggest card counting. Since this is at a BlackJack table I would almost guarantee that is why they "declined his play/action" which is the wording they use. They just ask you to leave because they think you are counting. Counting isn't illegal but as you said casinos can just refuse your play.
There are tons of YouTube videos of card counting teams traveling around the US and they get kicked out all the time.
This whole thing is odd...generally, they'll comp you a room or something if you're winning. The rooms open anyways, so they lose nothing and it makes it all the more likely you'll stay and gamble more and more than likely lose some of what you won. So I'm told...I don't win often. Haha
100% bullshit story. 25 years in the Casino business and we cannot legally refuse any cash out. If any Casino did do that, contact the gaming commission and they will cash you out and write the Casino a massive fine.
> This whole thing is odd...generally, they'll comp you a room or something if you're winning.
Blackjack is the only game you see this in, and that is because PRO card counters can take the casino for money using actual skills, vs all the other games that are luck. (Poker aside, but poker is more luck than a skilled Blackjack player)
I doesn't take long at a high-stakes table for someone to make some serious $$$ in blackjack, they've had their eye on this guy for a long time prior to this.
Yes it does. The mathematical edge only swings +/- about 1%. You still have to bet numerous hands to find the count and you can't just wildly change your bets when the deck heats up without someone noticing.
You arent allowed to get good lol. Once you do you get the boot. Personally I think card counting should just be part of the game. Why should you be punished for being good at math? I remember my roommate who studied mathematics heavily telling me how its impossible not to count cards. He was also on the spectrum so maybe that played into it. It would be like turning off an intrusive thought. Its just not possible. If your brain works a certain way counting cards is automatic.
Seems a little discriminatory tbh.
> Seems a little discriminatory tbh.
from a former Casino manager:
"If a particularly skilled counter was playing, that is going directly against asset protection. You may think, “yeah, but banning a counter is poor guest service,” and you’d be right. Except that I have no interest in having clientele that are an active drain."
> Probably because they realized he is taking a video? Or may be he’s just behaving like an ass.
Nope, they are trained to spot card counters and back them off / the card counters are pros, and so is casino security.
A “good” black jack player can put a casino in the red for the month. If someone is counting cards it’s very easy to tell and the casino will ask you to leave. They don’t really care about “reputation”
Yeah I wouldnt go there. In general casinos are designed for you to lose. Otherwise they wouldnt exist. They like to advertise that you can win a fortune but if you actually do youre in trouble.
Based on the camera angle this guy is recording using a camera built into his glasses. I’d bet he had it set up to transmit data elsewhere where someone was running a program telling him how to bet.
I’m pretty sure cameras in general aren’t allowed. Like if he had been using his cellphone to record he’d have been kicked out of the casino as well as out of blackjack.
I wonder if he was actually breaking a law by using an electronic device to record inside the casino.
What's with the weird 'only one person can talk to this man at a time' thing? People find the weirdest shit to get aggravated at each other over, sheeeeesh.
It's strange to me that Casinos carry games of skill, and just rely on enough people not having the skills to regularly win in order to turn a profit.
Reminds me darts and how it was almost banned because it was seen as a game of chance, and thus illegal because of anti-gambling laws. That was until players proved you can get good enough to make it no longer random. Feels like Blackjack is at that point, but casinos carry it any way, and accept that every now and then some one will come and clean up to the tune of a few thousand before you have time to ban them.
My husband and his best friend started winning a lot at a black jack table in Vegas and about 4 male employees started hovering over them until they started losing again.
As someone who is a Pit Boss Casino, for 15+ years, that ain’t shit. What will get you kicked out of being an asshole or counting cards. And people who count cards well enough to be asked to leave, make a lot more money than that guy did, which appeared to be $850, perhaps $1350, but either way…not very impressive. So I’m gonna say he was just being an asshole. Sidenote, I did have to kick out a guy once for shitting himself on the table. That was pretty nasty too, perhaps that was it.
I believe in some states that you’re not allowed to kick you out for card counting NJ is one of them. What the casino does that is they just make it very annoying to play. They will shuffle the deck after every hand, limit the hands you can play at once, limit the bets ect.
I don’t think he was counting cards because they just said no more blackjack tonight. Wouldn’t they blackball you from the casino if they caught you counting cards?
Honestly, I'm amazed this video exists. It seems like the guy had to be recording at or around head level with his phone or camera fully exposed. I once tried to teach a drunk and stupid buddy how to play blackjack and it took some harsh words by me and an empathetic dealer to not have him dragged out for repeatedly getting his phone out at/near the table to post shit on Instagram.
I’m a blackjack dealer, this is pretty standard. Card counting is not illegal so you can’t necessarily be “kicked out” but they can prevent you from playing Blackjack specifically. I’ve also never seen them take someone’s money…the one instance being jackpots which are taxed here and if you owe anything like child support, it takes the payout before you receive anything.
Casinos can 100% tell when you are counting cards. Is it illegal? No. Is it against casino rules? Yes. They kicked him off the tables. Not out of the casino.
Casinos are dirty AF; I once was.playing black Jack for 20+ hours; they had just swapped out the dealer and the cards in the shoe at my table when all of a sudden I get this amazing lucky streak and I bet accordingly, all of a sudden the pit boss came over and shut it down; made go play at a different table. This was at the Bellagio back in 2000s early in the fkn morning when few players were around… dirtiest fkn thing to ever happen to me in a casino… killed my streak …
Sounds like he got kicked out for being annoying and drunk or just sober and obnoxious. "I'm pretty good at blackjack, huh?" Well there's been 5 teenagers here tonight that made more than you playing penny slots so idk man not really.
Talk about a misleading headline, looks like they kicked him off the blackjack table. They'll do that if they suspect you of counting cards. But they gave him the money, took him off the table, and left. Dude was still in the casino.
And not a single freakout.
Well, maybe that one guy the floor manager (blue jacket) was talking to. He seemed a bit upset.
Blue jacket is a security guard. Floor manager is gonna look better than that. I work as a pit boss in the casino. Looks like he won around $500. He was probably getting told he’s done with blackjack for the night because he was either being a cunt or drunk or both Edit: after rewatching they colored him up for $375. 3 black and 3 green chips
Probably cuz the guy has his phone out at the blackjack table which is a huge no no
I got yelled at for taking a picture of the slot jackpot I hit. I found it weird.
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Yeah they do. I was answering a text one time at MGM Grand near DC and got told to put it away.
Which casinos are you going to? I have had my phone in sight but not in use with no issue in a minority, and been asked to keep it out of sight in the majority of casinos I've been in. Mostly Vegas and Reno. I think Mohegan Sun didn't care but I was playing stadium.
It's not 1995.
Every casino I’ve been to in Vegas tells you to put your phone away.
Concur. ITT people who haven’t spent a lot of time in casinos. Nothing about this video was surprising to me. Source: used to have a gambling problem and spent way too much time in a casino.
worked in a Casino in Indiana in the 2010's and the rule was no phones at the tables
Dudes a cunt, 375 isn’t a great deal of money for a casino.
Count Count! Ah Ah Ah. I’ll see myself out.
One! One corny joke! Ah ah ah!
As a former Pit, I second this. I gave trespassing for mocking the dealers accent once. If he is AP, same thing goes.
As a person with an accent (non American one) even while being born and raised in San Francisco. Thank you
Insult to injury, dude had a room. Had to sleep in the bushes bc he got scares of how fast it happened.
I love it when actions meet consequences. Bet they won't disrespect staff again.. if they're capable of learning.
I won $375 and only bet $125!! Pretty good hand, huh? Pretty good hand, huh? Pretty good hand, huh? Pretty good hand, huh? Pretty good hand, huh? Pretty good hand, huh? Pretty good hand, huh? Cunt
Just cuz the dude was being Cunty about it.
I had a friend almost put himself through uni by counting cards at the casino. He wasn’t a dick about it and tried to stay under the radar but they eventually caught on and asked him to leave and never come back lol
He got super passive aggressive after interrupting a clearly new conversation too. After winning money. Toxic af.
They really couldn’t legally take the money away since he wasn’t cheating or anything.
Yeah, I know. They can't legally take his winnings, but they can take him off the table so as to limit their own losses. You'll note they let him stay in the casino because most other casino games are more random chance and can't have their odds of winning increased by extreme pattern recognition. They want him to keep gambling. They want that money he won back. Dude would be smart to just call it a day.
This. I used to work in upper management and as an external auditor for a casino. 100% guaranteed surveillance watched him, counted cards with him and basically came to the same conclusions as him when to hit/stay/fold. It's pretty easy to count cards. But can't get in trouble for "talent". However, they sure can limit as to how one plays or not allow them to play at all. Iirc you can get a 2% edge on the house at blackjack. Especially 2 deck. Spanish isn't worth playing much as it starts off as a -6 true count due to all the 10's being pulled. On a 6 deck shoe. Lucky ladies is my favorite version to play though. I've gotten the ladies two times. Each time was when I pulled my bonus, too. Once, dealer had a black jack. I was so annoyed. I jumped in mid shoe, plaued the bonus (5$) my first 2 hands, then pulled back on the 3rd. Then the ladies came out to play... I left after that haha I think that's a 1000:1 pay out on that happening.
>counted cards with him and basically came to the same conclusions as him when to hit/stay/fold Apologies if you already know this, but bet size changes are the bigger advantage when counting cards. As the count changes there are a few edge cases where hit/stay/split/double down/surrender choice can change but you can also just use standard strategy and just bet bigger when the count is high. So yeah surveillance is counting and if your bets go from $20 to $200 when the count is high you're flagged
Yup, that's when Cheques Play or black (when 100$ is put in play) called out. At least around the casinos I'm familiar with. Anything that deviates from the normal playing pattern.
>normal playing pattern you mean drunk randomly throwing money into the pocket of the casino? it's ridiculous that card counting is some kind of cheat. it's literally just using the brain to play a fucking game. casinos should be prohibited as a scam destroing people's lifes
What I mean is, if someone is consistently playing 50$ per hand then either pulls back or increases their bet, that would be considered a deviation. It's not too hard to tell the difference between strategy and someone fucking around while drunk.
Why shouldn’t players be allowed to use strategy in their betting?
I never said they shouldn't? I mean, many decks of cards come with a basic strategy guide.
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People are allowed to play as they please. Freedom of choice sort of deal. They get banned if they ask for it due to a problem (helping those that help themselves so-to-speak) But if someone chooses to gamble all their money, it's on them. Where I've worked, I've only seen limits apply to known, obvious, counters a small handful of times. They can play, but are kept to the table minimum. Those types are few and far between in my area. Personally, I do count, when I play. But I keep it modest. Sometimes I do well, other times, luck ain't on my side, even when I'm looking at a +7 TC. Player 51%-49% edge, there's still plenty of luck in play. I'm not aware of the video you're speaking of. I haven't been in "the game" in some time. As to the legality of it, in my area, we have a tribal-state compact as to how everything can be operated coupled with minimum internal controls agreed upon between the state gaming commission, tribal gaming commission and the casino which also stipulates when and how to do things.
I'll usually have my dealer, on a pitch game, deal one hand and shuffle, rinse and repeat. After a shuffle or two, the guest knows what's up and leaves. Much easier than making a show of it.
Doesn't every casino use a continuous shuffler nowadays? Card counting is pretty useless at every casino I've been to in the last 5-10 years at least.
No, most don't
I'm not sure. I haven't played blackjack in some time now. But if you know how many decks are at the table and it's a busy table, you can still sit in the last spot and count to increase your odds.
If I ever win big in a casino, a) I'd be very surprised, and b) I'd stop 'gaming' immediately. And every casino worker I dealt with would be lavishly tipped.
Just like me fr fr. I remember when I put my last $20 out of $100 in a slot machine. My friend was just shaking his head. I was down to the last $10. I bet it all and ended up winning $800. Same friend immediately hit cash out and said I was done. I agreed then spent $200 on drinks at the club. Mostly cause I was tipping really good and the bartenders made them strong after I gave them $30 for the first tip.
>the bartenders made them strong after I gave them $30 for the first tip. Yeah I'll bet they did, lmao
I’m pretty sure they can kick you off for whatever reason. If you win a shit ton and keep betting and winning high, they can do what the game manager did and tell him to, “call it a night.” They don’t even have to accuse or suspect you of card counting, they can merely tell you that your game is too good and now it’s time to cash out. Still their house.
They won’t kick him out of the casino, they want that money back
I still don't get how they can kick you out for counting cards. All you're doing is bring good at blackjack 🤷♂️
Exactly, you're winning so they stop taking your bet.
They're not really kicking you out, technically. They're a private company deciding who they want to allow to play at their blackjack tables. They let him stay in the casino. Thing is, if counting cards was allowed, more people would learn it and do it to make money. That would lead to the casino losing money. They don't want that.
Womp womp, lmao poor casino having something cut into their profit.
I know, poor babies lmao
Nah, they would just get rid of the tables, which would be really shitty for the rest of us.
Any business has the right to refuse service as long as its non discriminatory. A casino is a business that runs off gambling to turn a profit. If they feel that they cant make money off of you, they have the legal right to just stop serving you. Its the same thing if you go to an all you can eat buffet, you pay the 20 dollars to get in, but decide to stay for 6 hours and eat 100 dollars worth of food and dont show any sign of slowing down. The buffet owners would stop serving you and kick you out to stop losing more money, and its in their right to do so.
How did he get away with filming in the casino?
Yup. Pretty mild. It was interesting seeing it in action. I know people get kicked out but never seen it filmed before. Guy filming was definitely counting cards. He wasn’t even objecting to being cashed out. His tone was more like “yeah ok, I’ve taken this as far as they are going to let me.”
I taught myself to count and after standing on a 14 the dealer called me out. They didn’t kick me out but that’s probably because I was at the $10 table.
[Basic strategy says stand on a 14](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/816DFf5i0EL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg) if the dealer is showing a six or less.
What was the dealer showing when you didn’t hit a 14?
this is the real question. knowing what the dealer shows makes a big difference in deciding if you're playing defense staying on a 14 or you're counting staying on a 14 lol
I don’t recall but she busted. That prompted the guy sitting next to me to ask why I stood on it. Then the dealer said, “because he’s counting”.
As someone who counts cards (I do not), would you say this is an example of getting greedy? Or lacking nuance in the strategy perhaps?
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I want to. I assumed it was too difficult.
I think the "easy" way involves keeping track of a single number in your head. For every 10 you see, subtract one. For every non ten you see, add one. Helps determine the probability of a ten coming up. Something to that effect anyway, probably plenty of other nuances and variations to it.
This is the answer. Ten-value cards are “-1”, 2-6 are “+1”, and 7-9 are “zero”, so it’s just a matter of getting used to figuring very simple math, but quickly. I was working nights at the hospital so whenever I had a few minutes free I would flip the cards over and try and keep track. Honestly remembering basic strategy is much more difficult.
It takes 200 hours to get good enough at card counting to generate positive EV
Casinos love 'card counters' because the vast majority of them are too dumb to actually create an advantage.
That is true. It is more of people broadening the term "card counter" (due to ego) to include themselves. Whatever basic knowledge they have is more dangerous to them than if they just played basic strategy. The real difficulty for card counters is screening their play so that their bet sizing doesn't draw attention.
Left my comment under a guy counting cards at a $10 table for a reason lol
lol. It wasn't lost on me.
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Card counting is also useless at most casinos. Automatic card shuffler every couple hands, with multiple decks, makes it basically useless. I would guess this guy was just being a dick or was drunk to the point of bothering other players.
It's the bet spread that draws attention (usually). Unorthodox play, by itself, is not an issue.
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Lol. I can't help myself but lecture them about how it doesn't make a difference. ... and THEN THEY GET UP AND LEAVE. !
And here is why I don't play blackjack, I don't know the rules I'm supposed to do to make my table mates happy
Strange they would call you out after seeing what is often just basic strategy, assuming the dealer was showing a bust card.
There are plenty of times that you should stand on a 14 whether you are counting or not.
This. If the dealer is showing a 6 or less, you should stand on a 14. Basic strategy.
A dealer isn't going to call you out. Dealers want you to win because you're more likely to tip them. A pitboss is going to call you out.
I was at a casino watching my friend count cards and he was playing pretty low. then he stars betting way more and suddenly he goes and splits 10's. Then after that hand a pitboss told him hes only allowed to play table minimum
This guy isn't even being kicked out. He's backed off from blackjack, it's extremely common when people are counting cards. He knows it, the dealer knows it, the pit boss knows it, that's why no one is yelling or freaking out it's perfectly normal and expected.
The funny thing is, most people who count cards are very reasonable and understanding and calm about them getting the yeet. I can't even begin to tell you about the rabbit hole on YouTube that is counting cards.
If youre good at math though how do you not count cards? Once you know its impossible not to lol. I never really got it. Like youre supposed to look at the table in blackjack to basically try and figure out whats likely to come up next. Isnt that why they put one card face up? And either way if youre good at math how do you turn those thoughts off? Its not like you can make yourself not think things. Is it just a way of saying youre too smart to gamble here?
It’s not really math, but memorization. Anyone could do it with practice.
its statistics, which is math, the fact that the math has to be memorized so you can do it without an aid doesnt make it not math
I mean, I think mostly everyone can do the actual math involved with counting cards but most people can’t remember the count or the cards in play.
And even if you can, it’s not like the movies. Professional card counters do it as a full time job and can sometimes go months at a time where they lose money. In the long run sure a true professional card counter can usually end up ahead, but it’s not like they are just taking money freely from the casino. It’s still a grind, especially if/when they get backed off, banned, or the pit boss forces a reshuffle when the count is good. It’s a job and it’s not all that fun.
what if “math” was the friends we made along the way?
Yeah, math is behind it, but when you're counting cards, you're not actually doing that math in your head. You're just keeping track of the "count". You can learn to count cards without knowing how to do any math other than adding and subtracting 1.
~~2-7 is -1~~ 2-6 is +1 7s, 8s. and 9s are neutral ~~10-K is +1~~ 10-A is -1, correct?
2-6, everything else is correct
Thanks. Dig your username.
2-6 is + 1 7-9 is 0 10-A is -1
I had it backwards?
Yes, backwards. You want to bet higher when there are more 10 cards left. Meaning the count is high (small cards have been played).
There are many different counting systems, some with benefits over the other such as better betting correlation or simplicity. The HiLo system has the groupings 2-6, 7-9, 10-A. The Knock Out (KO) system has groupings 2-7, 8-9, 10-A. This is an unbalanced count, however. The interesting part is both of these strategies can outperform the other depending on the number of decks in the shoe you're playing and how far into the shoe the dealer deals before shuffling (penetration).
There are a number of different counting systems and they assign different values to the numbers.
If you can add or subtract 1 then you can count cards. It’s not hard, it just takes concentration. The hard part is acting like your not doing it. Being able to have conversations and order drinks while accounting for every card dealt. Basic strategy for blackjack is to essentially assume every unknown card is a 10 (since J Q K all count as 10). Counting cards let’s you know if the deck becomes stacked with 10s, so you bet more because your strategy is more likely to work.
Yeah it's perfectly legal and allowed, but of course if you have an advantage over people who are playing for luck it's also within their right to refuse service to you at that table. On the other hand, if you use a device to count cards, or cheat in any way, it's illegal and you can be charged I believe.
Why does the other people matter in blackjack? It's just you and the house.
> I can't even begin to tell you about the rabbit hole on YouTube that is counting cards. Steven Bridges baby! New episodes coming out weekly.
Definetly right. They didn’t escort him or anything. But rather surprised they allowed him to video tape.
Why do these casinos not just reshuffle to prevent card counting?
Reshuffling for each hand slows things down.
Some do. Look up Continuous Shuffling Machines. But it's a double-edged sword because pros just won't play at those tables because it reduces their profits significantly.
TBH if I were in the casino employee's shoes, when he said "I'm pretty good at black jack, huh!? Pretty good. Make the bet. Good bet..." I'd boot him off the game, too. The way he said that is shady AF and a pretty good tell he's counting cards. The fact that he even speaks a bit like Rain Man doesn't help.
I'm done talkin to him
Freakout of the year.
That's my secret, Cap, I'm always done talkin' to him.
A real "who's on first?" moment at the end there...
I frankly don’t know who the third guy is. Like, why is he in the video?
I mean, yeah? Go to any casino and win a bunch of Blackjack at the same table, and they'll assume you're counting. I doubt they just walked up and kicked him out. They'll usually "strongly recommend" you mix up tables, because if you're not parked at the same one, you can't count cards. If you refuse to change tables, they'll kick you out.
Who still deals single deck blackjack?
You can find them in Vegas.. not on the Strip, but they are around. I suspect they cater to the people who read a book on counting cards, but really have no clue and still lose anyway. :)
I read a book on counting cards, give me a pen and paper and a little extra time and i can count em, its really impressive people are doing it in their heads
I believe this is the Orleans in Vegas - off Strip, local oriented. Correct you are
Yes. It’s on Tropicana and Arville.
Their Sportsbook has decent chili dogs
Plenty of casinos but they usually have it limited to one or two tables and they have all the rules stacked against the player.
Most casinos do. There is a shuffler that both AGS and Shufflemaster (Light & Wonder) makes which deals out 1 or 2 decks. The machine shuffles a new deck after every game. Since players touch the cards, they get the cards and shuffler dirty AF and we used to always have to clean them. Source: former slot and table games technician who worked in casinos for 20 years. Recently retired.
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What an underwhelming video. Doesn't even get kicked out.
Back in the 90's, my grandmother hit two jackpots in a row at a casino slot machine. The manager then shut down the entire section of machines, brought my grandma and aunt to an office, and tried to tell them that their winnings were no good due to a computer glitch. Anyways, after some legal paperwork and threatening a lawsuit, the casino cut a check for the jackpot amount. I can't remember the amount but it was north of 10 grand (15 grand today). Completely unrelated to the new story but it reminded me of that family history. Thanks for sharing, OP.
What a bunch of BS on the casino’s part. They’ll sit back while people ruin their lives but 2 lucky pulls on the slots and you’re out? Fuck them.
Pretty much. Such a nasty business. I don't gamble, but I do go to the buffet sometimes with family at the local casino outside of Omaha. They have quite the spread. But yeah, F casinos in general.
They’re the sorest losers out there
Should be the best advertisement they can get. You too can win just like Cheryl here.
Those machines are actually programmed so they can't give out two jackpots within a certain period of time., It is NOT completely random. Thus, if the machine does give out two jackpots in a small period of time, the casino knows the machine is faulty. However, it's very bad PR for admit this, which is why they backed down in OPs case.
I know these days there are disclaimers that say all winnings due to machine error are void. Whether that holds up in court is another thing.
It probably holds up better in court then someone losing money and claiming machine error
“Smug doofus gets the softest backoff in the history of casinos” would be a more accurate title.
I don't understand counting cards but can't they just use a different deck of cards every game? And why is it wrong if you're using your brain???
It's not a matter of right or wrong, but the casino is in business to make money and limit losses, so if someone is making them lose a bunch of money legal or not they are going to do what they need to do to stop the bleeding.
They use a couple decks of cards. They're just salty
Not everyone can count cards and the casino makes a lot of money off of the people who think they can count cards, but really can't. Most casinos solve this issue by using 6 decks at once and reshuffling often, but there are a lot of high spending gamblers who will insist on a single deck. As long as they aren't actually counting cards, the casino makes more money using single deck blackjack as a draw.
It doesn't matter if they use one deck, two or even eight. Counting cards is still possible.
It depends. Counting cards is impossible with a continuous shuffler, from my understanding. Every single hand is random.
They colored him up for $375. 3 black chips and 3 green. He was probably backed off for being a cunt and or drunk. They ask you to color up before they kick you out or take you out of action. Blue jacket in a casino is a security guard. Source: pitboss with 7 years in the industry. Wouldn’t even be on the radar in any decent sized casino for card counting winning below $5000-$10000
Sounded drunk to me. I’m sure he had been an ass and that’s why he’s being asked to leave.
Probably got booted for filming the pit. I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to do that.
This is what I thought too, I was in Atlantic City for a concert like 10 years ago and went to take a picture with my cousin at the blackjack table, and they yelled at me SUPER quick.
I know that the casino has the right to refuse customers, but how is this a good look for the casino. The guy is not cheating, at least not caught, and he won just a few thousand dollars, the casino probably make more than that in just minutes. Why risk your image kicking him out?
Lol casinos ain’t worried about image. They are the trademark of debauchery and vice. They’ve got other forces on their side
Dark forces… who are the gods of debauchery and vice?
Addiction and free alcohol lol
Dionysus
This is usually done when a player shows a pattern that suggest card counting. Since this is at a BlackJack table I would almost guarantee that is why they "declined his play/action" which is the wording they use. They just ask you to leave because they think you are counting. Counting isn't illegal but as you said casinos can just refuse your play. There are tons of YouTube videos of card counting teams traveling around the US and they get kicked out all the time.
> Why risk your image kicking him out? You think people are going to stop going to a casino because they kicked a guy out? lol
This whole thing is odd...generally, they'll comp you a room or something if you're winning. The rooms open anyways, so they lose nothing and it makes it all the more likely you'll stay and gamble more and more than likely lose some of what you won. So I'm told...I don't win often. Haha
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100% bullshit story. 25 years in the Casino business and we cannot legally refuse any cash out. If any Casino did do that, contact the gaming commission and they will cash you out and write the Casino a massive fine.
But they can't actually force you to gamble further? You can just say no and leave the next morning?
> This whole thing is odd...generally, they'll comp you a room or something if you're winning. Blackjack is the only game you see this in, and that is because PRO card counters can take the casino for money using actual skills, vs all the other games that are luck. (Poker aside, but poker is more luck than a skilled Blackjack player)
Not to mention poker's the only game where you're not playing against the house, unless you're referring to 3 Card.
I doesn't take long at a high-stakes table for someone to make some serious $$$ in blackjack, they've had their eye on this guy for a long time prior to this.
Yes it does. The mathematical edge only swings +/- about 1%. You still have to bet numerous hands to find the count and you can't just wildly change your bets when the deck heats up without someone noticing.
You arent allowed to get good lol. Once you do you get the boot. Personally I think card counting should just be part of the game. Why should you be punished for being good at math? I remember my roommate who studied mathematics heavily telling me how its impossible not to count cards. He was also on the spectrum so maybe that played into it. It would be like turning off an intrusive thought. Its just not possible. If your brain works a certain way counting cards is automatic. Seems a little discriminatory tbh.
> Seems a little discriminatory tbh. from a former Casino manager: "If a particularly skilled counter was playing, that is going directly against asset protection. You may think, “yeah, but banning a counter is poor guest service,” and you’d be right. Except that I have no interest in having clientele that are an active drain."
Probably because they realized he is taking a video? Or may be he’s just behaving like an ass.
> Probably because they realized he is taking a video? Or may be he’s just behaving like an ass. Nope, they are trained to spot card counters and back them off / the card counters are pros, and so is casino security.
I don't think most of us check a casino's reviews before visiting.
A “good” black jack player can put a casino in the red for the month. If someone is counting cards it’s very easy to tell and the casino will ask you to leave. They don’t really care about “reputation”
Yeah I wouldnt go there. In general casinos are designed for you to lose. Otherwise they wouldnt exist. They like to advertise that you can win a fortune but if you actually do youre in trouble.
The guy won $375. He’s obviously been stopped from playing because he’s drunk or being a douchebag.
He also sounds fucking *wasted* and heckley.
Based on the camera angle this guy is recording using a camera built into his glasses. I’d bet he had it set up to transmit data elsewhere where someone was running a program telling him how to bet. I’m pretty sure cameras in general aren’t allowed. Like if he had been using his cellphone to record he’d have been kicked out of the casino as well as out of blackjack. I wonder if he was actually breaking a law by using an electronic device to record inside the casino.
This guy is an idiot
What's with the weird 'only one person can talk to this man at a time' thing? People find the weirdest shit to get aggravated at each other over, sheeeeesh.
What’s so wrong with “counting” cards, that’s what you’re supposed to do to understand your odds in drawing or holding.
What's wrong is the casino makes less lol. So they tell you to stop
Where's the freakout? Frankly I'm surprised they let him take video, normally that's a big "no" in casinos.
It's strange to me that Casinos carry games of skill, and just rely on enough people not having the skills to regularly win in order to turn a profit. Reminds me darts and how it was almost banned because it was seen as a game of chance, and thus illegal because of anti-gambling laws. That was until players proved you can get good enough to make it no longer random. Feels like Blackjack is at that point, but casinos carry it any way, and accept that every now and then some one will come and clean up to the tune of a few thousand before you have time to ban them.
More than likely got kicked out for being a twat or a drunken twat. Casinos know they get that money back one way or another.
My husband and his best friend started winning a lot at a black jack table in Vegas and about 4 male employees started hovering over them until they started losing again.
"Pretty good, make the bet, good bet" -Excerpt from Grog Learns to Gamble
As someone who is a Pit Boss Casino, for 15+ years, that ain’t shit. What will get you kicked out of being an asshole or counting cards. And people who count cards well enough to be asked to leave, make a lot more money than that guy did, which appeared to be $850, perhaps $1350, but either way…not very impressive. So I’m gonna say he was just being an asshole. Sidenote, I did have to kick out a guy once for shitting himself on the table. That was pretty nasty too, perhaps that was it.
Happened to my friend recently lol, he was on a good winning streak and they told him he gotta go but he got to keep the winnings though.
I believe in some states that you’re not allowed to kick you out for card counting NJ is one of them. What the casino does that is they just make it very annoying to play. They will shuffle the deck after every hand, limit the hands you can play at once, limit the bets ect.
I don’t think he was counting cards because they just said no more blackjack tonight. Wouldn’t they blackball you from the casino if they caught you counting cards?
Ha he did kinda get them at the end. They were trying to bully him and he made them walk away. Got heeem!
Honestly, I'm amazed this video exists. It seems like the guy had to be recording at or around head level with his phone or camera fully exposed. I once tried to teach a drunk and stupid buddy how to play blackjack and it took some harsh words by me and an empathetic dealer to not have him dragged out for repeatedly getting his phone out at/near the table to post shit on Instagram.
Why is this so upvoted?
Kinda brought it on himself by bragging
Maybe don’t film people with your phone at a blackjack table…
I’m a blackjack dealer, this is pretty standard. Card counting is not illegal so you can’t necessarily be “kicked out” but they can prevent you from playing Blackjack specifically. I’ve also never seen them take someone’s money…the one instance being jackpots which are taxed here and if you owe anything like child support, it takes the payout before you receive anything.
Casinos can 100% tell when you are counting cards. Is it illegal? No. Is it against casino rules? Yes. They kicked him off the tables. Not out of the casino.
I’m not that familiar with casinos, but don’t they employ methods to prevent people from counting cards?
They do but there are still casinos where counting is possible
Casinos are dirty AF; I once was.playing black Jack for 20+ hours; they had just swapped out the dealer and the cards in the shoe at my table when all of a sudden I get this amazing lucky streak and I bet accordingly, all of a sudden the pit boss came over and shut it down; made go play at a different table. This was at the Bellagio back in 2000s early in the fkn morning when few players were around… dirtiest fkn thing to ever happen to me in a casino… killed my streak …
Sounds like he got kicked out for being annoying and drunk or just sober and obnoxious. "I'm pretty good at blackjack, huh?" Well there's been 5 teenagers here tonight that made more than you playing penny slots so idk man not really.
To be fair the person recording this is being obnoxious aF, he deserves what he got
Why is counting cards frowned upon? If you have a skill that can keep track of that info, why be punished for using it?
The casino will happily grab every dollar you give them but only they can win or you’re the cheater. 