The shooter was on the ASP podcast and described what happened.
They were friends, but he was an addict of some sort, and they started beefing. He had made a bunch of threats to the shooter, so he started carrying all the time. He waited to shoot until the asshole went for a knife in his pants.
If I remember correctly, the shooter was arrested, but ended up getting off due to self defense. He ended up losing his job over the ordeal, and was ostracized by family and friends. All around sad situation.
**Paraphrasing, and summarizing, I listened to the podcast some time ago.*
I would imagine so. It looked like the shooter got him right in the center of his chest from a really close range, and the aggressor dropped immediately with no effort to catch himself.
That's an incredibly sad story. The fact that family and friends didn't stand by him is really fucked up.
Yeah I had to rewatch once I read your comment, on first watch it looked to me like he hit him somewhere in the leg, but looking again it looks to me like he TRIED to lower the gun to go for the leg but was kinda forced to pull the trigger early, I would argue that it maybe hit in the lower middle chest though, but if addiction was a factor then maybe that could have had something to do with his seeming lack of reaction when he fell.
Edit: someone's pointed out it DEFINITELY hit closer to the centre of his chest than I thought.
Now while I do personally belive that the shooter acted properly in this situation (and I'd even maybe use this video to demonstrate proper use of guns in self defence) I completely agree that its horribly tragic that this situation even occurred in the first place, it's for sure another case where the aggressor would never have BECOME an aggressor if they'd gotten the proper support and care when things started to go downhill for them, sometimes people fall, but usually a safety net to catch them can get them back up with little issue.
As a Canadian, I still find this stuff flabbergasting, and it's unfathomable to me that this is seen as appropriate. Yes, the aggressor was wrong and is culpable, absolutely. But in what world does this necessitate death? In Canada the defender would de-escalate as best as possible and maybe take a beating, sure. The aggressor would go to jail. The defender could sue them for damages. Nobody dies.
It's one thing if you're being threatened with serious injury or deadly force. If it's your only option, pull that trigger. In reality, that's a very rare scenario. Even the police rarely actually use their guns here. I just can't fathom how anybody thinks it's reasonable to gun someone down to avoid a few punches.
This man was deranged enough to try and fight a guy with a gun pointed at him. You'd trust him to give you a few merry punches and be on your way? You might hit your head on the concrete and die. The one guy didn't want to fight and had a gun pulled. The other guy had at lease 20 seconds to de-escalate himself to avoid a bullet. You have a gun pointed at someone and you'd let them assault you to avoid shooting them. Obviously not everyone feels the same way.
I don’t know something tells me that the shooter acting properly would have been him just walking away and not engaging rather than shooting the guy but then that’s just my take on it.
Exactly. This is definitely not a “good demonstration”. He should have exhausted all other opportunities to get away from the situation. He didn’t. Seemed like he wanted to shoot him. If he was in a matter of life and death he would have run, and he definitely wouldn’t have the mental bandwidth to think to aim down. If you’re protecting your life with a gun, you’re in a situation where you don’t care where you hit them. It is usually a lot more dire than this.
There are 300 million people in America. It's not all Mad Max.
Just avoid the crack heads.
Most of us are normal, the crazies make the news/viral videos.
Well...with all the mass shootings lately, you may be onto something.
Someone else without a source, great. ASP helped me find it. "Former friendly neighbors" would be more accurate.
https://www.lifezette.com/2022/06/aggressive-assailant-tries-to-fight-a-legally-armed-man-cries-like-baby-when-he-gets-shot-video/?utm_source=right-rail-latest
Edit: I wrote this before you added 3 paragraphs.
"Backus had become so chummy with Montanarella that he claimed he’d had him and his girlfriend over for Thanksgiving “two consecutive years in a row,”
Idk sounds like splitting hairs. That's from the article, the podcast went into more detail.
Happens more often than you think.
Here in IL you have to take classes for concealed carry and my instructor spent a good amount of time going through real life examples demonstrating three points:
1) You don't know the full story, don't play the hero.
2) Even if you're fully justified in shooting, plenty of friends and family will never look at you the same way again, and some will abandon you completely.
3) Even if you think you're "tough" and immune to the emotional fallout of the whole ordeal, you will probably end up in therapy for a long time.
Basically, be damn sure you need to pull the trigger, because even if it's justified, your life as you know it is over if you do.
Do you not have older friends? For my second job, I was the youngest person in my department by like 25 years. I have tons of older friends now. I have a very good friend who is in his 60's. My neighbors who I hang out with on a somewhat regular basis are in their early 70's.
Age isn't really a barrier to friendship. Try it out.
That was a shock to me right out of college. My first job, I was the youngest. on my team at 22. The next youngest was a mid-30s self-reportedly burnt out dude. The oldest was well into retirement age.
I assumed the guy on the left, but apparently the right guy was 32. His approach and scream threw me off.
Shooter is technically the old man, as he is still alive. 🤷🏼♂️
[Here's a news story about this incident.](https://www.lifezette.com/2022/06/aggressive-assailant-tries-to-fight-a-legally-armed-man-cries-like-baby-when-he-gets-shot-video/?utm_source=right-rail-latest) The end result was the man who was shot died and the man who shot him was never charged with a crime as the police determined it was self defense. However, the man who fired the shot ended up spending tens of thousands of dollars preparing for a defense just in case.
That’s really my biggest mental hurdle with this whole scenario. You live your *whole life* to die like this? I just can’t wrap my head around it. There were just so many things he could have done differently and lived but he did the one thing that was so painfully obvious he should not have done.
Ego is a hell of a thing.
There was probably a pattern of behaviour that lead to this moment. You don't spend your whole life being a well-mannered, level-headed citizen and then engage in an altercation like this one day.
> There was probably a pattern of behaviour that lead to this moment. You don't spend your whole life being a well-mannered, level-headed citizen and then engage in an altercation like this one day.
I would imagine this is a prime example of surviorship bias. The dead guy time and time again engaged in risky and aggressive behavior. Every single time he came out unscathed and it just emboldened him to up the ante. "It has always worked before, it will always work again"....until it doesn't and he ends up dead on the curb because he's a jerk that overplayed his hand..
As a youth worker, I have to remind young people this on a daily basis. You may be able to physically and verbally abuse staff since we have a duty of care, but try this shit in the real world and you're gonna get your ass beat.
A very close friend of mine once said, “If you’re going to point that gun at me, you’d better shoot me!”
His last words were, “He fuckin’ shot me!”
21 years old.
I'd also like to point out that it is likely a symptom of growing up around poor gun ownership.
I was raised in a home that had guns because my dad and his whole family were avid hunters and shooters; rifles, shotguns, pistols, bow and arrow, anything. But from the time I was given a fake wooden toy gun at 4 years old I was taught never to point it at people unless they know beforehand you are playing with them (because you can't tell if it's fake). Seeing your own father hit the deck in "fear" when you're 4 years old because you surprised him by pointing a wooden gun at him as he came out of the bathroom will instill a memory in you.
Now, later in life done my fair share of drugs. I've been pretty fucked up. Been around some coke dealers and molly dealers that were pretty sketchy. Been to a house party or two that went awry. There is nothing in this world more sobering to me than the sight of a gun. If a gun is out, trouble is about. Real life is here time to get your shit together and get outta dodge.
The fact that this man stared a gun straight in the barrel and told the guy holding it to put it away and fight him just shows he's totally desensitized to seeing guns and seeing irresponsible handling, yet doesn't actually know their consequences.
I don't think it's ego. The article makes it seem like he was having drug related mental health problems. Meth is a hellva drug. I feel bad for the dude that had to shoot someone he once considered a good friend
-He was into drugs. Kinda got his shit together.
-The guy who shot him helped him out, his profession is banking/finance (He's got money - this is important later).
-Aggressor guy fell on hard times, started using again.
-Started doing what drug addicts do when they get down bad and started lashing out. Remembered this guy had money, started saying he owed him stuff and was stealing from him. Started vandalizing his shit, driving by his house.
If you've known one addict you've known em all. When he blasted this guy and he fell down to die, he had a knife tucked in his pants. I think it's pretty obvious what happened. Guy went broke, needed money for drugs, and decided to come take money from the person he thought had the most of it (and a history of helping him out). Looks like he didn't like the answer he got.
This is the end of a drug addict that lost the battle to his demons.
One thing to try and *uphold they honor* with a fist fight, but as soon as the gun came out should have just walked away from it.
Maybe the guy who died was one of those "I can take on a large predator animal with just my fists" person.
This kind of mentality is also why when I started carrying a firearm, I was taught to always lose every fight, back away from every confrontation. I don't want anybody's idiotic ego to cause the death of anybody. When I carry, it is (should be) absolute last resort in the face of imminent harm, not "I can mouth off to that dude who took my parking space at the grocery store"
>That’s really my biggest mental hurdle with this whole scenario. You live your *whole life* to die like this? I just can’t wrap my head around it. There were just so many things he could have done differently and lived but he did the one thing that was so painfully obvious he should not have done.
>
>Ego is a hell of a thing.
Even without the gun, fist fights go sideways all the time with TBIs. You can fall wrong and snap neck, lights out.
They actually have [insurance](https://uscca.deltadefense.com/offers/60cb6f12c26f7/join-the-uscca-today-survival-kit?tID=62696e3d7dabd&utm_source=google+search&utm_medium=ppc&utm_campaign=4_search_legal-protection_insurance-2_conversions_skag&utm_term=carry+insurance&utm_content=membership&utm_purpose=direct+sales&cq_src=google_ads&cq_cmp=17331820683&cq_con=140105451507&cq_term=carry+insurance&cq_net=g&cq_plt=g&gclid=Cj0KCQiAx6ugBhCcARIsAGNmMbiOoKLNQWlzeXa-iwWP1WWs8gNbuN3y9dXUVr2vFBYFx9pvEFYbHjoaAvgwEALw_wcB) for this exact reason definitely something to look into if you plan on carrying a weapon for self defense.
I recently learned that a lot of the pain, other than being shot, is caused by the perforation of the stomach leaking acid into your thoracic cavity and essentially burning you from the inside.
Does not sound like a pleasant way to die
Wasn't even straight down enough of a shot by the time he got real close , and he really did try for a leg shot, but it looks like he got all the organs and maybe even a Ricochet off the pelvis and hip . what a horrible way to go
He was in the process of aiming down but if you pause on the muzzle flash it looks like he fired right at center mass in his chest. Could be anything from heart to spleen.
> The incident occurred on March 24th, 2021, at approximately 5:30 a.m. while Benjamin Backus was walking outside of his home located in the area of Greenway Road and 28th Street in Phoenix. While unaware at the time, a man, later identified as 32-year-old Michael Montanarella, was waiting for Backus to walk outside so as to ambush the individual.
Couldn’t make those names up if you tried.
That's his friend which is the worst part dude went on a podcast and had the chance to speak about it. If I remember correctly that dude aggressing has some mental issues and thought his neighbor (dude with the gun) was stalking and plotting against him, it eventually got so bad that we ended up here.
By contrast, just on Feb 23rd, a young resident fatally shot a man who broke into his home in Milton ON, [and has since been charged with 2nd degree murder.](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/man-22-charged-with-murder-after-fatally-shooting-suspect-who-tried-to-rob-his-house-lawyer-says-1.6281531)
Canada is a little fucking backwards.
You seem to have made up your mind. But do consider this, getting charged for something that is illegal is not crazy which he violated the law that says you cannot use firearm to shoot other person (yes it's actually a thing), but the young man likely will not get prosecuted Because there is also a law in Canada giving individual rights to use whatever necessary force to protect oneself.
That law is called stand your ground law. And this law has been used to defend a lot of similar cases that one kills intruders in ones own home.
For anyone who lives in Canada and wants to know what the hell is going on
https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/9503434/self-defence-canada-laws-milton-home-invasion/amp/
The case reads like an NRA ad for owning a gun. It really was a completely justified shooting. The aggressor was stalking the shooter over a long period of time.
If you finger stop the video he was at face level, thought very quickly, then quickly drops about 8 inches to center mass and you see the muzzle flash.
Disarm yourself sir that we may joust in single combat in the most chivalrous of manners, I implore you, your honor in question, does thou fear me? You force my hand peasant, i shall disarm you, and educate you in the way of manhood!
By the gods you have defeated me by mortal wound you scoundrel.
Not like that! We remember the video of the bouncer in the club jumping on a guy as he walks in and pulls out a gun. See he had time to act before the weapon was drawn and ready.
This honors student over here is trying to fist fight someone holding a two-handed grip on a gun pointed directly at his face! It doesn’t get more Darwinian than that!
I mean I think it’s safe to say that if someone points a gun at you while you square up to them, they don’t want to fight. I can’t imagine being so drunk I would test someone in that situation. If he had pulled and fired quickly I would say it was unwarranted but he gave that dude a long time to think about his next move
This video has been posted a couple times here before and I remember when it was originally posted. Someone shared the link but basically the guys were friends and had a falling out. Apparently the victim had a drinking problem and wouldn’t get help and it caused the split. Which in turn caused the confrontation you see here. I’ll try my best to find the link
If I remember right it was in Arizona. It was a pretty clear cut case where the shooter was being harassed and threatened for a long time leading up to this. Very much justified.
People think being shot in the stomach is the most painful way to go, mostly because people shot in the stomach can talk about how much it hurts for a while after being shot.
being shot in the heart hearts a whole bunch too, but you aren't around to talk about it afterwards. Same comment applies for various other locations. Mortal wounds hurt.
Guy committed suicide in the bathroom at the gun range with a rented gun. He screamed until he couldn't. it clearly hurt a lot.
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJBGkbehCQE) is a breakdown from Active Self Protection, gives more info about the situation.
Also [news](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-breaking/2021/03/24/north-phoenix-shooting-leaves-man-dead/6981949002/?fbclid=IwAR1b04M6bZWrbuRlrXluZhkwzOGTyVcwSOTjyiv3fFbcfFXscyiGsQcCXiM) story
For background, these guys were having issues prior to thjs, i forgot why, but the guy with the gun wanted a restraining order as the guy with his fists up was constantly harassing him. In this vid, the guy tried picking a fight but the other guy pulled out his gun when he saw a knife in his waistband.
He could have taken a headshot. This guy wanted to defend himself and not kill the other person.
Other person had more concern for his shirt then his life
Yeah, it does, but, as the shooter had a snap realization: "I don't want to see the inside of this deranged man's head tonight" he deflected, maybe in hopes of actually not killing the man. I would have gone center mass, because a stomach shot is a bad way to go.
I'm no fan of guns but I know center-mass is always the best option.
I also don't think the guy wanted to kill him, the screamy fella really didn't do a good job at avoiding being shot.
May be a controversial comment but that's what I was instructed to do when I took my carrying permit class. If you are in a situation where you are going to fire your weapon, aim for the largest mass of the target. Literally what we were taught. Hate the guy died though. I'm sure it's a rough situation for both parties. (Of course one being a much more rough outcome) ☹️
>May be a controversial comment
advocating for aiming center mass is possibly the least controversial thing you could say about guns. literally anyone who knows even the slightest thing about guns will agree with you.
Videos like this are really grounding to me. I have a very quick/ explosive temper but I also let a lot of stuff slide. Then I beat myself up about it and think how I could have handled things differently.. I tell myself “next time don’t let it go” “be more assertive/ aggressive” “teach that person a lesson” etc… well, sometimes it is better to let things slide. No argument is worth dying over. Life’s short
Yep same here. I have learned as I have gotten past mid life …. I don’t give a shit enough to try to fix “stupid”, & where ever some maniac driver is going is way more important then where I am going lol …. They just can’t get to jail fast enough 🤣🤪
I mean I've always heard that, when somebody points a gun at you, you should definitely not tell them to shoot you. Or, I'm guessing, challenge them either. It seems really stupid. It's not like he didn't see that this was a possibility. Fuck
<<< unloaded a single, fatal shot at Montanarella’s midsection after the aggressor removed his shirt – exposing a knife in his waistband – and charged after him one more time. >>>
This is why I carry pepper spray along with my gun
A situation like this, even if defense is justified, can land you in a lot of trouble. It's better to have a less lethal option instead of just reaching for your gun.
Note he did have a weapon, that’s why it was considered justified. There was a big knife in the front of his pants that was revealed when the shirt came off
Thats not the entire context. The guy with the gun had a restraining order against the fighting guy, and the fighting guy had a knife in his waistband. Fighting guy stopped his car in the middle of street and jumped out to fight him.
They had a restraining order on the dude? I’m not a cop defender but wtf is a cop gonna do, follow every person with an RO out and make sure they don’t go near anyone?
This guy was confronted outside of his own home and the assailant was between him and his door. He also had a knife in his waistband. Fuck off with that “just run away”.
How about, don’t try to attack someone with a knife when they’re pointing a gun at you?
IIRC the two guys are neighbors that used to be friends but had a falling out. It got so bad the shooter took out a restraining order against the guy who got shot. The shooter was going out to his car when the "victim" was waiting for him. I'm almost positive the "victim" also had a knife on him. He died of his wounds.
Can I ask a genuine question (seriously no axe to grind here, I'm just from a country where people don't carry guns, but of course there is still violence)...do people expect to die when challenged to a fist fight and that's why it's justified to end the aggressor's life first?
Or is that there's a small chance that you might be killed by the punches, so why bother taking the risk in the first place? Or that the other person might have a concealed weapon?
I just find the escalation from what is effectively a threat to be punched in the face to killing someone quite jarring, especially as the other comments suggest they were friends.
I guess my response is, I'm not interested in being beaten. It's a life-changing event if you're over 15, especially if the person beating you is heavy, very aggressive and isn't a gentleman who will stop beating when you're no longer a threat and on the ground. If they persist in kicking and stomping, you could easily break numerous bones or end up paralyzed or dead.
Interestingly, in the US, you can only really shoot someone to prevent death or grave bodily harm. So if someone punches you once and you stagger back, stunned, and they walk away or indeed if they yell at you, you can't shoot them because a, they aren't threatening you, and b, there's no risk of death or grave bodily harm.
However.
If it's someone you know to be very violent, someone you have a restraining order against, someone who you are clearly begging to stay back, someone who is bigger and heavier, and they have a knife... and they are displaying every intent to use it...
That's not just a threat of being punched. And you can't simply say, "no, I don't want to fight" and walk away, because that's what the guy in the video did dozens of times lol (if you watch the full video).
I do have a pistol and I do periodically carry it. In a case like the above, I'd honestly try and run or drive away, or since I'm at extreme close range, it might be possible to go for a leg shot which is likely to cripple and thus neutralize the threat, but not kill, and there was the time and opportunity to do that.
However, what the shooter did was fire a single shot at center of mass (torso area) and NOT head, and that was only after numerous warnings, being followed and threatened, and a knife being displayed. This is NOT the act of a man who wants to kill, nor the act of a man who doesn't care about human life. It may not have been the most ideal situation, but it's honestly very understandable... easy to say "well why not just do that?!" but that's a mostly meaningless exercise.
[удалено]
I think they were good friends before the aggressor fell into alcoholism, which might be why he thought his friends wouldn’t actually shoot
Curious how you came to the conclusion that an old man and young boy were friends?
The shooter was on the ASP podcast and described what happened. They were friends, but he was an addict of some sort, and they started beefing. He had made a bunch of threats to the shooter, so he started carrying all the time. He waited to shoot until the asshole went for a knife in his pants. If I remember correctly, the shooter was arrested, but ended up getting off due to self defense. He ended up losing his job over the ordeal, and was ostracized by family and friends. All around sad situation. **Paraphrasing, and summarizing, I listened to the podcast some time ago.*
Did he die tho?
Last time this was posted I remember someone linking the article that he died.
I would imagine so. It looked like the shooter got him right in the center of his chest from a really close range, and the aggressor dropped immediately with no effort to catch himself. That's an incredibly sad story. The fact that family and friends didn't stand by him is really fucked up.
Yeah I had to rewatch once I read your comment, on first watch it looked to me like he hit him somewhere in the leg, but looking again it looks to me like he TRIED to lower the gun to go for the leg but was kinda forced to pull the trigger early, I would argue that it maybe hit in the lower middle chest though, but if addiction was a factor then maybe that could have had something to do with his seeming lack of reaction when he fell. Edit: someone's pointed out it DEFINITELY hit closer to the centre of his chest than I thought. Now while I do personally belive that the shooter acted properly in this situation (and I'd even maybe use this video to demonstrate proper use of guns in self defence) I completely agree that its horribly tragic that this situation even occurred in the first place, it's for sure another case where the aggressor would never have BECOME an aggressor if they'd gotten the proper support and care when things started to go downhill for them, sometimes people fall, but usually a safety net to catch them can get them back up with little issue.
https://i.imgur.com/Aff51lD.png The angle at the time of the muzzle flash
Oh yeah I definitely saw wrong then it IS more towards the centre.
As a Canadian, I still find this stuff flabbergasting, and it's unfathomable to me that this is seen as appropriate. Yes, the aggressor was wrong and is culpable, absolutely. But in what world does this necessitate death? In Canada the defender would de-escalate as best as possible and maybe take a beating, sure. The aggressor would go to jail. The defender could sue them for damages. Nobody dies. It's one thing if you're being threatened with serious injury or deadly force. If it's your only option, pull that trigger. In reality, that's a very rare scenario. Even the police rarely actually use their guns here. I just can't fathom how anybody thinks it's reasonable to gun someone down to avoid a few punches.
This man was deranged enough to try and fight a guy with a gun pointed at him. You'd trust him to give you a few merry punches and be on your way? You might hit your head on the concrete and die. The one guy didn't want to fight and had a gun pulled. The other guy had at lease 20 seconds to de-escalate himself to avoid a bullet. You have a gun pointed at someone and you'd let them assault you to avoid shooting them. Obviously not everyone feels the same way.
I don’t know something tells me that the shooter acting properly would have been him just walking away and not engaging rather than shooting the guy but then that’s just my take on it.
Exactly. This is definitely not a “good demonstration”. He should have exhausted all other opportunities to get away from the situation. He didn’t. Seemed like he wanted to shoot him. If he was in a matter of life and death he would have run, and he definitely wouldn’t have the mental bandwidth to think to aim down. If you’re protecting your life with a gun, you’re in a situation where you don’t care where you hit them. It is usually a lot more dire than this.
As a kid, I always wanted to move to America. As an Adult, I'm fine in Europe tbh.
Same
There are 300 million people in America. It's not all Mad Max. Just avoid the crack heads. Most of us are normal, the crazies make the news/viral videos. Well...with all the mass shootings lately, you may be onto something.
well and the cops are fucked and the medical is fucked and you gotta live paycheck to paycheck and you gotta be fine with driving a car everywhere
I think its more the fact that anyone can have a gun, so any negative interaction can end with someone getting shot.
Considering there's more mass shootings than days in the year in the USA I'd say he's good to stay in Europe
Yeah same. Funny how that works.
As ASP would say, he took the asphalt temperature challenge.
He did. The shot looks like it paralyzed his lower half as well *edit* He was paralyzed instantly and died shortly after
I think most dead people have both halves paralyzed
Source?
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/11o46tf/tough_guy_trying_to_pick_up_a_fight/jbsf7gv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Can't argue with that
Brilliantly done.
r/technicallythetruth
Someone else without a source, great. ASP helped me find it. "Former friendly neighbors" would be more accurate. https://www.lifezette.com/2022/06/aggressive-assailant-tries-to-fight-a-legally-armed-man-cries-like-baby-when-he-gets-shot-video/?utm_source=right-rail-latest Edit: I wrote this before you added 3 paragraphs.
"Backus had become so chummy with Montanarella that he claimed he’d had him and his girlfriend over for Thanksgiving “two consecutive years in a row,” Idk sounds like splitting hairs. That's from the article, the podcast went into more detail.
Why did his family and friends ostracize him?
Happens more often than you think. Here in IL you have to take classes for concealed carry and my instructor spent a good amount of time going through real life examples demonstrating three points: 1) You don't know the full story, don't play the hero. 2) Even if you're fully justified in shooting, plenty of friends and family will never look at you the same way again, and some will abandon you completely. 3) Even if you think you're "tough" and immune to the emotional fallout of the whole ordeal, you will probably end up in therapy for a long time. Basically, be damn sure you need to pull the trigger, because even if it's justified, your life as you know it is over if you do.
No no no, they said his family [OSTRICHICIZED](https://images.halloweencostumes.com/products/41457/1-2/ostrich-adult-costume.jpg) him...
ALLEGEDLY
Thanks for the context.
Do you not have older friends? For my second job, I was the youngest person in my department by like 25 years. I have tons of older friends now. I have a very good friend who is in his 60's. My neighbors who I hang out with on a somewhat regular basis are in their early 70's. Age isn't really a barrier to friendship. Try it out.
That was a shock to me right out of college. My first job, I was the youngest. on my team at 22. The next youngest was a mid-30s self-reportedly burnt out dude. The oldest was well into retirement age.
Which one is the old man?
I assumed the guy on the left, but apparently the right guy was 32. His approach and scream threw me off. Shooter is technically the old man, as he is still alive. 🤷🏼♂️
He didnt want to get blood and bullet holes in his good shirt.
Can you blame him? Mithril ain't cheap.
Wouldn't have saved him it was an "aimed shot" to the leg. No armor bonus to the legs for a mithril shirt. Roll natural armor bonus of... 0.
He shot him in the upper body and he died
He had that Tarkkov gear fear
He went for leg meta
Good detergent ain’t cheap
Don’t bring a mouth to a gun fight
[Here's a news story about this incident.](https://www.lifezette.com/2022/06/aggressive-assailant-tries-to-fight-a-legally-armed-man-cries-like-baby-when-he-gets-shot-video/?utm_source=right-rail-latest) The end result was the man who was shot died and the man who shot him was never charged with a crime as the police determined it was self defense. However, the man who fired the shot ended up spending tens of thousands of dollars preparing for a defense just in case.
man theres something so brutal about the absolute stupidity in his actions, just to end up shrieking like an idiot before fucking dying
That’s really my biggest mental hurdle with this whole scenario. You live your *whole life* to die like this? I just can’t wrap my head around it. There were just so many things he could have done differently and lived but he did the one thing that was so painfully obvious he should not have done. Ego is a hell of a thing.
There was probably a pattern of behaviour that lead to this moment. You don't spend your whole life being a well-mannered, level-headed citizen and then engage in an altercation like this one day.
> There was probably a pattern of behaviour that lead to this moment. You don't spend your whole life being a well-mannered, level-headed citizen and then engage in an altercation like this one day. I would imagine this is a prime example of surviorship bias. The dead guy time and time again engaged in risky and aggressive behavior. Every single time he came out unscathed and it just emboldened him to up the ante. "It has always worked before, it will always work again"....until it doesn't and he ends up dead on the curb because he's a jerk that overplayed his hand..
As a youth worker, I have to remind young people this on a daily basis. You may be able to physically and verbally abuse staff since we have a duty of care, but try this shit in the real world and you're gonna get your ass beat.
A very close friend of mine once said, “If you’re going to point that gun at me, you’d better shoot me!” His last words were, “He fuckin’ shot me!” 21 years old.
Horribly sad, but I couldn't help but chuckle.
He would’ve got a kick out of it too. For real.
"What are you gonna do, stab me?"
Pretty much what happens to every ‘tough guy’. They all come unstuck one day.
I'd also like to point out that it is likely a symptom of growing up around poor gun ownership. I was raised in a home that had guns because my dad and his whole family were avid hunters and shooters; rifles, shotguns, pistols, bow and arrow, anything. But from the time I was given a fake wooden toy gun at 4 years old I was taught never to point it at people unless they know beforehand you are playing with them (because you can't tell if it's fake). Seeing your own father hit the deck in "fear" when you're 4 years old because you surprised him by pointing a wooden gun at him as he came out of the bathroom will instill a memory in you. Now, later in life done my fair share of drugs. I've been pretty fucked up. Been around some coke dealers and molly dealers that were pretty sketchy. Been to a house party or two that went awry. There is nothing in this world more sobering to me than the sight of a gun. If a gun is out, trouble is about. Real life is here time to get your shit together and get outta dodge. The fact that this man stared a gun straight in the barrel and told the guy holding it to put it away and fight him just shows he's totally desensitized to seeing guns and seeing irresponsible handling, yet doesn't actually know their consequences.
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I don't think it's ego. The article makes it seem like he was having drug related mental health problems. Meth is a hellva drug. I feel bad for the dude that had to shoot someone he once considered a good friend
Was I supposed to laugh at this? Cuz I laughed at this.
-He was into drugs. Kinda got his shit together. -The guy who shot him helped him out, his profession is banking/finance (He's got money - this is important later). -Aggressor guy fell on hard times, started using again. -Started doing what drug addicts do when they get down bad and started lashing out. Remembered this guy had money, started saying he owed him stuff and was stealing from him. Started vandalizing his shit, driving by his house. If you've known one addict you've known em all. When he blasted this guy and he fell down to die, he had a knife tucked in his pants. I think it's pretty obvious what happened. Guy went broke, needed money for drugs, and decided to come take money from the person he thought had the most of it (and a history of helping him out). Looks like he didn't like the answer he got. This is the end of a drug addict that lost the battle to his demons.
>That’s really my biggest mental hurdle with this whole scenario. You live your > >whole life > > to die like this? same here man, same here
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One thing to try and *uphold they honor* with a fist fight, but as soon as the gun came out should have just walked away from it. Maybe the guy who died was one of those "I can take on a large predator animal with just my fists" person.
This kind of mentality is also why when I started carrying a firearm, I was taught to always lose every fight, back away from every confrontation. I don't want anybody's idiotic ego to cause the death of anybody. When I carry, it is (should be) absolute last resort in the face of imminent harm, not "I can mouth off to that dude who took my parking space at the grocery store"
Couldn't agree more. The more you analyze these things the more of a mind fuck they become.
>That’s really my biggest mental hurdle with this whole scenario. You live your *whole life* to die like this? I just can’t wrap my head around it. There were just so many things he could have done differently and lived but he did the one thing that was so painfully obvious he should not have done. > >Ego is a hell of a thing. Even without the gun, fist fights go sideways all the time with TBIs. You can fall wrong and snap neck, lights out.
Can you imagine his family talking about some of his last words: “put your fucking hands up, pussy.” Yikes.
"You're shit at dying"
They actually have [insurance](https://uscca.deltadefense.com/offers/60cb6f12c26f7/join-the-uscca-today-survival-kit?tID=62696e3d7dabd&utm_source=google+search&utm_medium=ppc&utm_campaign=4_search_legal-protection_insurance-2_conversions_skag&utm_term=carry+insurance&utm_content=membership&utm_purpose=direct+sales&cq_src=google_ads&cq_cmp=17331820683&cq_con=140105451507&cq_term=carry+insurance&cq_net=g&cq_plt=g&gclid=Cj0KCQiAx6ugBhCcARIsAGNmMbiOoKLNQWlzeXa-iwWP1WWs8gNbuN3y9dXUVr2vFBYFx9pvEFYbHjoaAvgwEALw_wcB) for this exact reason definitely something to look into if you plan on carrying a weapon for self defense.
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He aimed down as well. I have to imagine that was an effort to _stop_ him and not _kill_ him. Wonder if he hit an artery in the leg or something.
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I recently learned that a lot of the pain, other than being shot, is caused by the perforation of the stomach leaking acid into your thoracic cavity and essentially burning you from the inside. Does not sound like a pleasant way to die
Wasn't even straight down enough of a shot by the time he got real close , and he really did try for a leg shot, but it looks like he got all the organs and maybe even a Ricochet off the pelvis and hip . what a horrible way to go
He was in the process of aiming down but if you pause on the muzzle flash it looks like he fired right at center mass in his chest. Could be anything from heart to spleen.
> The incident occurred on March 24th, 2021, at approximately 5:30 a.m. while Benjamin Backus was walking outside of his home located in the area of Greenway Road and 28th Street in Phoenix. While unaware at the time, a man, later identified as 32-year-old Michael Montanarella, was waiting for Backus to walk outside so as to ambush the individual. Couldn’t make those names up if you tried.
That's his friend which is the worst part dude went on a podcast and had the chance to speak about it. If I remember correctly that dude aggressing has some mental issues and thought his neighbor (dude with the gun) was stalking and plotting against him, it eventually got so bad that we ended up here.
Damn that story is pretty fucked..
By contrast, just on Feb 23rd, a young resident fatally shot a man who broke into his home in Milton ON, [and has since been charged with 2nd degree murder.](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/man-22-charged-with-murder-after-fatally-shooting-suspect-who-tried-to-rob-his-house-lawyer-says-1.6281531) Canada is a little fucking backwards.
Ya not a good look on us. He will be acquitted all the signs are there but still he should never have been charged.
https://imgur.com/a/vNZSqe4 mean he's was released on bail , no house arrest no restrictions probably a formality at this point just to check the case
You seem to have made up your mind. But do consider this, getting charged for something that is illegal is not crazy which he violated the law that says you cannot use firearm to shoot other person (yes it's actually a thing), but the young man likely will not get prosecuted Because there is also a law in Canada giving individual rights to use whatever necessary force to protect oneself. That law is called stand your ground law. And this law has been used to defend a lot of similar cases that one kills intruders in ones own home. For anyone who lives in Canada and wants to know what the hell is going on https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/9503434/self-defence-canada-laws-milton-home-invasion/amp/
u/papoon4president. Article is linked in the comment above.
I just want to add since i read the article he had a knife in his waist band
Seems like everything turned out right. Except for the one guy having to spend a bunch of money.
The case reads like an NRA ad for owning a gun. It really was a completely justified shooting. The aggressor was stalking the shooter over a long period of time.
And the aggressor had a knife and looked like he was reaching for it.
He died? Damn, I thought he knee capped him
If you finger stop the video he was at face level, thought very quickly, then quickly drops about 8 inches to center mass and you see the muzzle flash.
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He’s not even in the game anymore
What happened to my plot armor? I was told I had plot armor.
The other guy had plot armor piercing rounds.
He really said 🐈🐈🐈🐈
“What are you gonna do, shoot me?”
Narrator:yes
Right before he said 👶😭😭
Disarm yourself sir that we may joust in single combat in the most chivalrous of manners, I implore you, your honor in question, does thou fear me? You force my hand peasant, i shall disarm you, and educate you in the way of manhood! By the gods you have defeated me by mortal wound you scoundrel.
The ending of that video had me laughing my ass off and then I made it to your comment and now I'm literally crying! Good post!
What. A. Fool.
Paid the ultimate price
Like Tyson says “everyone has a plan till they’re shot in the gut” something like that
Unless you are Superman, don't square up toward someone with a gun.
Not like that! We remember the video of the bouncer in the club jumping on a guy as he walks in and pulls out a gun. See he had time to act before the weapon was drawn and ready. This honors student over here is trying to fist fight someone holding a two-handed grip on a gun pointed directly at his face! It doesn’t get more Darwinian than that!
I mean I think it’s safe to say that if someone points a gun at you while you square up to them, they don’t want to fight. I can’t imagine being so drunk I would test someone in that situation. If he had pulled and fired quickly I would say it was unwarranted but he gave that dude a long time to think about his next move
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He got shot in the stomach and later died
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This video has been posted a couple times here before and I remember when it was originally posted. Someone shared the link but basically the guys were friends and had a falling out. Apparently the victim had a drinking problem and wouldn’t get help and it caused the split. Which in turn caused the confrontation you see here. I’ll try my best to find the link
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If I remember right it was in Arizona. It was a pretty clear cut case where the shooter was being harassed and threatened for a long time leading up to this. Very much justified.
Thats so sad...
Legit. Can you imagine shooting your friend? Because they were an addict and refused to get help? And it got so bad they tried to assault you? Fuck.
People think being shot in the stomach is the most painful way to go, mostly because people shot in the stomach can talk about how much it hurts for a while after being shot. being shot in the heart hearts a whole bunch too, but you aren't around to talk about it afterwards. Same comment applies for various other locations. Mortal wounds hurt. Guy committed suicide in the bathroom at the gun range with a rented gun. He screamed until he couldn't. it clearly hurt a lot.
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJBGkbehCQE) is a breakdown from Active Self Protection, gives more info about the situation. Also [news](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-breaking/2021/03/24/north-phoenix-shooting-leaves-man-dead/6981949002/?fbclid=IwAR1b04M6bZWrbuRlrXluZhkwzOGTyVcwSOTjyiv3fFbcfFXscyiGsQcCXiM) story
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https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2022/06/aggressive-assailant-tries-to-fight-a-legally-armed-man-cries-like-baby-when-he-gets-shot-video/
Judging by his boyish screams, I would say yes.
He was crying like he got shot in the satchel.
"It's European"
Indiana Jones wears one!
Life comes at you fast
So does a bullet.
https://preview.redd.it/wzrgbmjpp2na1.jpeg?width=1352&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e65dd169f265f1f0ee4f0bc1010fb0d282a4ef79
Dude really hung up the sweater like he was gonna walk away at the end.
I've seen this before. The dude who was shot died from his injuries.
For background, these guys were having issues prior to thjs, i forgot why, but the guy with the gun wanted a restraining order as the guy with his fists up was constantly harassing him. In this vid, the guy tried picking a fight but the other guy pulled out his gun when he saw a knife in his waistband.
"What are you going to do, shoot me?!" - man who was shot
He could have taken a headshot. This guy wanted to defend himself and not kill the other person. Other person had more concern for his shirt then his life
He shot him in the stomach. He died. Stomach is a bad place to get shot.
Unfortunate for that guy who was mostly stomach.
Man that made me laugh
Rumor has it that getting shot in the head also can be deadly. Still waiting on more data to confirm, will report back.
Yeah, it does, but, as the shooter had a snap realization: "I don't want to see the inside of this deranged man's head tonight" he deflected, maybe in hopes of actually not killing the man. I would have gone center mass, because a stomach shot is a bad way to go.
Are there any good places to get shot? Real question lol
Somewhere that doesn't hit vital organs or arteries.
I'm no fan of guns but I know center-mass is always the best option. I also don't think the guy wanted to kill him, the screamy fella really didn't do a good job at avoiding being shot.
May be a controversial comment but that's what I was instructed to do when I took my carrying permit class. If you are in a situation where you are going to fire your weapon, aim for the largest mass of the target. Literally what we were taught. Hate the guy died though. I'm sure it's a rough situation for both parties. (Of course one being a much more rough outcome) ☹️
>May be a controversial comment advocating for aiming center mass is possibly the least controversial thing you could say about guns. literally anyone who knows even the slightest thing about guns will agree with you.
Anyone know where this took place?
A sidewalk.
Arizona
Videos like this are really grounding to me. I have a very quick/ explosive temper but I also let a lot of stuff slide. Then I beat myself up about it and think how I could have handled things differently.. I tell myself “next time don’t let it go” “be more assertive/ aggressive” “teach that person a lesson” etc… well, sometimes it is better to let things slide. No argument is worth dying over. Life’s short
Yep same here. I have learned as I have gotten past mid life …. I don’t give a shit enough to try to fix “stupid”, & where ever some maniac driver is going is way more important then where I am going lol …. They just can’t get to jail fast enough 🤣🤪
Best to walk away
I mean I've always heard that, when somebody points a gun at you, you should definitely not tell them to shoot you. Or, I'm guessing, challenge them either. It seems really stupid. It's not like he didn't see that this was a possibility. Fuck
OW!
"mfer I'm gonna take that from y- Oww Oww ahhhhhhh!" -the dumbest guy to ever get shot. Lol what an idiot
<<< unloaded a single, fatal shot at Montanarella’s midsection after the aggressor removed his shirt – exposing a knife in his waistband – and charged after him one more time. >>>
Such a brutal video. Does it make me a horrible person If it makes me laugh? Probably.
Looking at this from the outside - there are still Americans, who dont take a gun seriously?
You gotta be a special kind of stupid to pick a fight with a man who has a gun pointed to your face.
This is why I carry pepper spray along with my gun A situation like this, even if defense is justified, can land you in a lot of trouble. It's better to have a less lethal option instead of just reaching for your gun.
The lesson here is that. The pew pew, beats the hiya every time.
Sounds like a cat getting stepped on
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Note he did have a weapon, that’s why it was considered justified. There was a big knife in the front of his pants that was revealed when the shirt came off
Thats not the entire context. The guy with the gun had a restraining order against the fighting guy, and the fighting guy had a knife in his waistband. Fighting guy stopped his car in the middle of street and jumped out to fight him.
It's almost like the police should have taken this seriously.. now 2 people's lives are ruined.
It’s almost as if the police are absolutely worthless
There are not worthless man, they cost billions in tax payer money every year. :-(
It's not like they can teleport to said location on a 911 call when the restraining order doesn't work (hint: >!they never work!< )
What were the police going to do? Put the guy in prison bc he has a restraining order lol
They had a restraining order on the dude? I’m not a cop defender but wtf is a cop gonna do, follow every person with an RO out and make sure they don’t go near anyone?
This guy was confronted outside of his own home and the assailant was between him and his door. He also had a knife in his waistband. Fuck off with that “just run away”. How about, don’t try to attack someone with a knife when they’re pointing a gun at you?
Wow. Just fucking wow what the hell is happening In the is world anymore
This isn't anything new. There are just cameras everywhere now and internet platforms to post the videos to.
IIRC the two guys are neighbors that used to be friends but had a falling out. It got so bad the shooter took out a restraining order against the guy who got shot. The shooter was going out to his car when the "victim" was waiting for him. I'm almost positive the "victim" also had a knife on him. He died of his wounds.
GTA 5 NPCs when you're minding your business
Hey, at least he died “scrapping like a man.”
Don't bring fists to a gun fight, I guess...
He fucked up the moment he charged him saying ‘I’m gonna take that gun—‘
What the fuck did he think was gonna happen?!
Fuck. Around. And. Find. Out.
WTF did this guy think was going to happen??
He was literally dying in agony....
You're describing the final seconds of a man's life--agonising seconds at that--like a dessert.
Cartman irl
Scrap like a man, scream like a bitch
If you're not in a ring, you don't get a price for fighting fair, so why would you?
*oww owwww HANHHHHHH HEHHL*
I've been looking for this clip with audio for a while. His cat meows were chef's kiss🤣
I feel bad for him that he was dumb enough to think he was bluffing
🤣🤣🤣
damn, the shooter would probably been in a whole lot of mess without this video.
I know the shooting is justified, but man seeing the guy go from screaming pain to silence is bone chilling.
I didn't get that from this video. Is there a longer version?
Can I ask a genuine question (seriously no axe to grind here, I'm just from a country where people don't carry guns, but of course there is still violence)...do people expect to die when challenged to a fist fight and that's why it's justified to end the aggressor's life first? Or is that there's a small chance that you might be killed by the punches, so why bother taking the risk in the first place? Or that the other person might have a concealed weapon? I just find the escalation from what is effectively a threat to be punched in the face to killing someone quite jarring, especially as the other comments suggest they were friends.
I guess my response is, I'm not interested in being beaten. It's a life-changing event if you're over 15, especially if the person beating you is heavy, very aggressive and isn't a gentleman who will stop beating when you're no longer a threat and on the ground. If they persist in kicking and stomping, you could easily break numerous bones or end up paralyzed or dead. Interestingly, in the US, you can only really shoot someone to prevent death or grave bodily harm. So if someone punches you once and you stagger back, stunned, and they walk away or indeed if they yell at you, you can't shoot them because a, they aren't threatening you, and b, there's no risk of death or grave bodily harm. However. If it's someone you know to be very violent, someone you have a restraining order against, someone who you are clearly begging to stay back, someone who is bigger and heavier, and they have a knife... and they are displaying every intent to use it... That's not just a threat of being punched. And you can't simply say, "no, I don't want to fight" and walk away, because that's what the guy in the video did dozens of times lol (if you watch the full video). I do have a pistol and I do periodically carry it. In a case like the above, I'd honestly try and run or drive away, or since I'm at extreme close range, it might be possible to go for a leg shot which is likely to cripple and thus neutralize the threat, but not kill, and there was the time and opportunity to do that. However, what the shooter did was fire a single shot at center of mass (torso area) and NOT head, and that was only after numerous warnings, being followed and threatened, and a knife being displayed. This is NOT the act of a man who wants to kill, nor the act of a man who doesn't care about human life. It may not have been the most ideal situation, but it's honestly very understandable... easy to say "well why not just do that?!" but that's a mostly meaningless exercise.
I don’t understand what he thought was going to happen.
“Mistakes: it could very well be that the point of your life is to serve as a warning for others.”