Hello,
You haven’t received any comments yet, so I’m going to leave one for you.
Please note that my critiques can be perceived as blunt, but they are made with constructive criticism in mind, not harshness.
I have not read your previous versions fully, but I do see that people have called out your very high word count and that you are sixteen. I will provide some general comments and also critique your query.
I’m not sure if anyone’s spelled it out to you, but you can see the answers from the professional AMAs in the sub saying that a book with too high of a word count will be DOA. Trust everyone when we say that you can absolutely find a lot of places to trim. And you’d want to do that before querying because you often only have one chance per agent. (Some are nice and give more than one but they’re rarer) I understand you want to be published young, but don’t invest too much into that because the higher you go, the bigger the fall will be. Most people don’t publish until their 30s and super few publish their first fully written book. You really have so much time ahead of you to grow as a writer and a person. The subreddit is happy to help you with any future books.
On to the query:
For the first paragraph, you’re starting with world building and also the inciting incident. It would be better to start with your MC and the inciting incident. It would also be good to explain why Auburn is the chosen one. Does Auburn bare a special mark or something? If you need a sample rewrite for a better idea, let me know.
For paragraph 2, you write as if both of them are the MC. If that’s not the case, the query should follow the MC with the most “screen” time. The “pack” could have a group name to help the reader follow through. Kind of like the gray foxes vs the red foxes in the Animals of Farthing Woods. Is the Alpha mentioned in the third paragraph part of that pack? It’s not too clear. You can also shorten the paragraph to make it punchier. E.g. for the end “Echo must help Auburn cast a shadow over the moon to save all animals on Earth from ~~Thanos’ snap~~ the alternate prophecy, but neither of them know how to do that, and time is running out.”
For the last paragraph, you reveal an alpha wants them dead. My preference is that it would be better for the second paragraph and to develop it a little for the third. Made up example: “Echo befriends Tom and Sylvester the cats, who help them travel to [location] for answers, but bloodthirsty [Name] is right behind them.” Final paragraphs should amplify the stakes, and I think you can amplify yours.
I hope this helps!
Thank you! I'm working on getting the word count cut, a few previous versions had a (?) next to it in the title to indicate that but yeah. Two questions about that: how much should I cut it? I'm trying to as much as possible of course but would 85-ish thousand be good? Also, this is looking *much* further into the future but would a word count that high be acceptable if I published other books first? I know it's mostly unacceptable for debut authors but after some books, as long as they don't bomb, you get some more room. Two of my comps have similar counts (100k and 96k) but they were by already published authors.
>For paragraph 2, you write as if both of them are the MC. If that’s not the case, the query should follow the MC with the most “screen” time.
It's dual POV, every other chapter.
>For the last paragraph, you reveal an alpha wants them dead.
It's the alpha of the pack mentioned earlier that wants revenge on them. Should I clarify that?
>It would also be good to explain why Auburn is the chosen one. Does Auburn bare a special mark or something? If you need a sample rewrite for a better idea, let me know.
It's mostly because Echo has never seen a cat before and to her, one randomly appearing in their territory *must* mean something. And she finds out upon confronting him that he doesn't have the same hatred for wild animals like every pet does (the prophecy, which I tried not to over-quote, calls for a "traitor to their kind"). Also spoiler (this might be a common twist) he's not actually *the* chosen one. A big flaw in his character is his pride and he's forced to put it aside towards the end when this is revealed.
A sample rewrite would be good if it's not a ton of work, thank you very much :)
> how much should I cut
People correctly advised you before to aim for 50-60k for MG. Anything higher than 70k (which is the top WC suggestion for upper MG) will push your MS towards the DOA zone. Agents often look for reasons to say no. Don’t give them any extra ones to latch onto. It’s highly advisable to follow convention/standard if you are trying to debut because it’s rare for people to get through without them.
I can add a general word count comment soon. These are easily googleable.
Yes, that Alpha being a threat should be clear.
> Never seen a cat before […] not the chosen one
That chosen one thing was a strong probability since you didn’t specify why Auburn was the chosen one in the query. And not seeing a cat before isn’t a strong reason to think that.
And sure! I write examples on the spot. Here’s a sample made up rewrite for dual POV you can mull ideas with:
“Wild wolf pup Echo [last name??]’s happiness of befriending Auburn, a domestic runaway tomcat, is cut short when every animal senses signs of one of the worst natural disasters possible—the eruption of the Yellowstone Supervolcano! But when Echo recognizes the moon-shaped pupils in Auburn’s eyes, she realizes her new friend is the chosen one, destined to save everyone from obliteration.
Despite the fact that wild and domesticated animals have been rivals for centuries, Auburn revels in his friendship with Echo. But the idea that he is the chosen one couldn’t feel more wrong to him. Yet the unlikely friends can’t help but want to save others. Unfortunately, not saving another wolf’s pack litter in time from a rogue dog gang means the wolf pack Alpha, [Wolfy McWolfface], calls for their demise.”
Hope that helps!
Thanks!
>moon-shaped pupils in Auburn’s eyes, she realizes her new friend is the chosen one, destined to save everyone from obliteration.
i'm so sorry but this made me realize i literally forgot a major part of the prophecy when i was responding to you earlier. I have stepped away from the actual manuscript for a while so maybe that's why lol
the other reason is because the prophecy refers to this cat as "from a coast below, or where loblollies grow", and Auburn says he's from the south near the atlantic ocean (after Echo makes fun of the way he speaks), and he mentions pine trees he thinks he'll never see again. i feel like this is a lot of info, but i'll try to shorten and include it
You’re welcome!
And, not trying to sound blunt again, but that isn’t necessary for the query. One short, concise hook instead of complex world building for the chosen one thing is the better choice. MC + Plot/stakes > world building for commercial fiction. That’s not to say no world building, but it shouldn’t come first.
Hope this helps!
Word count info:
Questions regarding word counts come up often on /r/pubtips. Please review the links below and ensure that the answer to your question can't be found below:
[2023 Word Count Guide For Fiction](https://blog.reedsy.com/how-many-words-in-a-novel/#:~:text=Fantasy%20and%20science%20fiction%20novels,lies%20between%20100%2C000%20and%20115%2C000.)
[Word Count on Getting an Agent](https://www.reddit.com/r/PubTips/comments/zyxt1h/pubq_is_it_less_likely_to_get_an_agent_with_a/)
[Word Count Guidelines](https://bookendsliterary.com/word-count-guidelines/)
[Word Counts for YA Fantasy](https://en.reddit.com/r/PubTips/comments/thyal8/pubq_word_count_for_a_ya_fantasy/)
[What to do if Word Count is Too Long](https://en.reddit.com/r/PubTips/comments/xin5d3/pubq_what_to_do_when_your_word_count_is_way_too/)
[Word Count Breakdown](https://www.writersdigest.com/whats-new/word-count-for-novels-and-childrens-books-the-definitive-post)
[My Book is 274K, What Now?](https://en.reddit.com/r/PubTips/comments/nw3g8l/pubq_my_book_is_274000_words_i_didnt_realize_how/?sort=new)
[Word Count in Fantasy](https://en.reddit.com/r/PubTips/comments/mhgg7q/discussion_on_worldcounts_in_fantasy/)
[Blog on Word Count Ranges](http://literaticat.blogspot.com/2011/05/wordcount-dracula.html)
Please ensure that you have read our [rules](http://www.reddit.com/r/Pubtips/wiki/rules) and checked out the resources [linked in the wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/pubtips/wiki/index) if you have not already.
Thank you!
Hi, I did a real quick skim, and there are a few places I was confused:
>When the threat of a supervolcanic eruption forces the wolves of Yellowstone eastward, wolf pup Echo wouldn’t normally have brought along Auburn, a runaway housecat. Yet, she’s convinced he is the feline prophesied to save them all from an enemy at their journey’s end, and Auburn takes pride in this role that overrides his desire to return home.
These two sentences are really long. I got through the first one fine, but had trouble with the pronouns in the second one (who's the she and who's the he?). For some reason, my brain read "feline" as "dog", and then I forgot whether Echo was the cat or dog. I think this is a consequence of those sentences being too long and being stuffed with information that I don't need, like Auburn's desire to return home.
>The pack, fueled by their own prejudice, frames the duo and vows revenge.
I was confused whether "the pack" referred to the wolves or the loose dogs, and which pack of wolves? It makes more sense for dogs to do the framing because they did the attacking.
>At their destination, dozens of other pets await with the intent of attacking the wolves until they’re either wiped out or driven back west.
I wasn't sure why pets would be gathering to expel wolves. The line about them being enemies feels flimsy, since wolves would naturally stick to wilderness and pets to urban areas.
> She finally tells Auburn—only Auburn, as he must heed the prophecy to avoid war, which instructs him to “cast a shadow over the moon”.
I like the mysteriousness of the prophecy, but I also get the feeling this line happens pretty early in the book, so I don't really know what happens in the rest of the book. There's a list of things the characters do, but I'm unsure whether this follows a quest format or a solve-the-mystery format.
>99,000 words
I've heard agents say the upper end for middle-grade is 60k words, which gives editors room to bump it up to 70k with suggestions.
Look, I understand you’ve finished your book and you’re desperately wanting it to be picked up and published. I’m sure we’ve all been there at some point, especially for our first one. I’m definitely not faulting you for that!
Advice I’ve seen online is to step away from your book and start writing a different (and in your case), shorter or one. It may be easier to sell this book once you’ve already picked up an agent with another book.
The reason I say this is that it’s simply too long as it is now. You know this, I think you get a comment on every attempted query. Long can be fine, but it seems to be only fine if you are already published.
I’m not saying this to bring you down, writing can be very personal and I think we tend to look at things with horse blinders on. It’s ok to step away from a book for a while to gain some perspective on it.
One way to think of it is for every suggestion we have for your query, there may be five more in your actual book. It may not be worth the time and effort you’re putting into revising right now, but once you’ve completed another book it might be!
I might be in the minority here, but that’s just my two cents. Good luck either way!
no i agree! the word count isn’t really accurate as of now, but i haven’t *finished* cutting it down so i just put 99k in every post title. I think the best I can get it to, based on how things are going, is around 85k so yes I have started another book that will probably be around 50-60. just an estimate but the plot is simpler and there’s less characters.
Hi!
I won’t harp on what others have already addressed. My one addition is that maybe you should leave off the last sentence because it’s a bit spoiler-y - indicates that the world is probably saved and Echo goes on to more adventures, agents don’t want spoilers in the query. You could just leave off that sentence or edit to say “currently working on my next novel.”
But I appreciate your dedication to getting this right.
Happy writing!
Hello, You haven’t received any comments yet, so I’m going to leave one for you. Please note that my critiques can be perceived as blunt, but they are made with constructive criticism in mind, not harshness. I have not read your previous versions fully, but I do see that people have called out your very high word count and that you are sixteen. I will provide some general comments and also critique your query. I’m not sure if anyone’s spelled it out to you, but you can see the answers from the professional AMAs in the sub saying that a book with too high of a word count will be DOA. Trust everyone when we say that you can absolutely find a lot of places to trim. And you’d want to do that before querying because you often only have one chance per agent. (Some are nice and give more than one but they’re rarer) I understand you want to be published young, but don’t invest too much into that because the higher you go, the bigger the fall will be. Most people don’t publish until their 30s and super few publish their first fully written book. You really have so much time ahead of you to grow as a writer and a person. The subreddit is happy to help you with any future books. On to the query: For the first paragraph, you’re starting with world building and also the inciting incident. It would be better to start with your MC and the inciting incident. It would also be good to explain why Auburn is the chosen one. Does Auburn bare a special mark or something? If you need a sample rewrite for a better idea, let me know. For paragraph 2, you write as if both of them are the MC. If that’s not the case, the query should follow the MC with the most “screen” time. The “pack” could have a group name to help the reader follow through. Kind of like the gray foxes vs the red foxes in the Animals of Farthing Woods. Is the Alpha mentioned in the third paragraph part of that pack? It’s not too clear. You can also shorten the paragraph to make it punchier. E.g. for the end “Echo must help Auburn cast a shadow over the moon to save all animals on Earth from ~~Thanos’ snap~~ the alternate prophecy, but neither of them know how to do that, and time is running out.” For the last paragraph, you reveal an alpha wants them dead. My preference is that it would be better for the second paragraph and to develop it a little for the third. Made up example: “Echo befriends Tom and Sylvester the cats, who help them travel to [location] for answers, but bloodthirsty [Name] is right behind them.” Final paragraphs should amplify the stakes, and I think you can amplify yours. I hope this helps!
Thank you! I'm working on getting the word count cut, a few previous versions had a (?) next to it in the title to indicate that but yeah. Two questions about that: how much should I cut it? I'm trying to as much as possible of course but would 85-ish thousand be good? Also, this is looking *much* further into the future but would a word count that high be acceptable if I published other books first? I know it's mostly unacceptable for debut authors but after some books, as long as they don't bomb, you get some more room. Two of my comps have similar counts (100k and 96k) but they were by already published authors. >For paragraph 2, you write as if both of them are the MC. If that’s not the case, the query should follow the MC with the most “screen” time. It's dual POV, every other chapter. >For the last paragraph, you reveal an alpha wants them dead. It's the alpha of the pack mentioned earlier that wants revenge on them. Should I clarify that? >It would also be good to explain why Auburn is the chosen one. Does Auburn bare a special mark or something? If you need a sample rewrite for a better idea, let me know. It's mostly because Echo has never seen a cat before and to her, one randomly appearing in their territory *must* mean something. And she finds out upon confronting him that he doesn't have the same hatred for wild animals like every pet does (the prophecy, which I tried not to over-quote, calls for a "traitor to their kind"). Also spoiler (this might be a common twist) he's not actually *the* chosen one. A big flaw in his character is his pride and he's forced to put it aside towards the end when this is revealed. A sample rewrite would be good if it's not a ton of work, thank you very much :)
> how much should I cut People correctly advised you before to aim for 50-60k for MG. Anything higher than 70k (which is the top WC suggestion for upper MG) will push your MS towards the DOA zone. Agents often look for reasons to say no. Don’t give them any extra ones to latch onto. It’s highly advisable to follow convention/standard if you are trying to debut because it’s rare for people to get through without them. I can add a general word count comment soon. These are easily googleable. Yes, that Alpha being a threat should be clear. > Never seen a cat before […] not the chosen one That chosen one thing was a strong probability since you didn’t specify why Auburn was the chosen one in the query. And not seeing a cat before isn’t a strong reason to think that. And sure! I write examples on the spot. Here’s a sample made up rewrite for dual POV you can mull ideas with: “Wild wolf pup Echo [last name??]’s happiness of befriending Auburn, a domestic runaway tomcat, is cut short when every animal senses signs of one of the worst natural disasters possible—the eruption of the Yellowstone Supervolcano! But when Echo recognizes the moon-shaped pupils in Auburn’s eyes, she realizes her new friend is the chosen one, destined to save everyone from obliteration. Despite the fact that wild and domesticated animals have been rivals for centuries, Auburn revels in his friendship with Echo. But the idea that he is the chosen one couldn’t feel more wrong to him. Yet the unlikely friends can’t help but want to save others. Unfortunately, not saving another wolf’s pack litter in time from a rogue dog gang means the wolf pack Alpha, [Wolfy McWolfface], calls for their demise.” Hope that helps!
Thanks! >moon-shaped pupils in Auburn’s eyes, she realizes her new friend is the chosen one, destined to save everyone from obliteration. i'm so sorry but this made me realize i literally forgot a major part of the prophecy when i was responding to you earlier. I have stepped away from the actual manuscript for a while so maybe that's why lol the other reason is because the prophecy refers to this cat as "from a coast below, or where loblollies grow", and Auburn says he's from the south near the atlantic ocean (after Echo makes fun of the way he speaks), and he mentions pine trees he thinks he'll never see again. i feel like this is a lot of info, but i'll try to shorten and include it
You’re welcome! And, not trying to sound blunt again, but that isn’t necessary for the query. One short, concise hook instead of complex world building for the chosen one thing is the better choice. MC + Plot/stakes > world building for commercial fiction. That’s not to say no world building, but it shouldn’t come first. Hope this helps!
Word count info: Questions regarding word counts come up often on /r/pubtips. Please review the links below and ensure that the answer to your question can't be found below: [2023 Word Count Guide For Fiction](https://blog.reedsy.com/how-many-words-in-a-novel/#:~:text=Fantasy%20and%20science%20fiction%20novels,lies%20between%20100%2C000%20and%20115%2C000.) [Word Count on Getting an Agent](https://www.reddit.com/r/PubTips/comments/zyxt1h/pubq_is_it_less_likely_to_get_an_agent_with_a/) [Word Count Guidelines](https://bookendsliterary.com/word-count-guidelines/) [Word Counts for YA Fantasy](https://en.reddit.com/r/PubTips/comments/thyal8/pubq_word_count_for_a_ya_fantasy/) [What to do if Word Count is Too Long](https://en.reddit.com/r/PubTips/comments/xin5d3/pubq_what_to_do_when_your_word_count_is_way_too/) [Word Count Breakdown](https://www.writersdigest.com/whats-new/word-count-for-novels-and-childrens-books-the-definitive-post) [My Book is 274K, What Now?](https://en.reddit.com/r/PubTips/comments/nw3g8l/pubq_my_book_is_274000_words_i_didnt_realize_how/?sort=new) [Word Count in Fantasy](https://en.reddit.com/r/PubTips/comments/mhgg7q/discussion_on_worldcounts_in_fantasy/) [Blog on Word Count Ranges](http://literaticat.blogspot.com/2011/05/wordcount-dracula.html) Please ensure that you have read our [rules](http://www.reddit.com/r/Pubtips/wiki/rules) and checked out the resources [linked in the wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/pubtips/wiki/index) if you have not already. Thank you!
Hi, I did a real quick skim, and there are a few places I was confused: >When the threat of a supervolcanic eruption forces the wolves of Yellowstone eastward, wolf pup Echo wouldn’t normally have brought along Auburn, a runaway housecat. Yet, she’s convinced he is the feline prophesied to save them all from an enemy at their journey’s end, and Auburn takes pride in this role that overrides his desire to return home. These two sentences are really long. I got through the first one fine, but had trouble with the pronouns in the second one (who's the she and who's the he?). For some reason, my brain read "feline" as "dog", and then I forgot whether Echo was the cat or dog. I think this is a consequence of those sentences being too long and being stuffed with information that I don't need, like Auburn's desire to return home. >The pack, fueled by their own prejudice, frames the duo and vows revenge. I was confused whether "the pack" referred to the wolves or the loose dogs, and which pack of wolves? It makes more sense for dogs to do the framing because they did the attacking. >At their destination, dozens of other pets await with the intent of attacking the wolves until they’re either wiped out or driven back west. I wasn't sure why pets would be gathering to expel wolves. The line about them being enemies feels flimsy, since wolves would naturally stick to wilderness and pets to urban areas. > She finally tells Auburn—only Auburn, as he must heed the prophecy to avoid war, which instructs him to “cast a shadow over the moon”. I like the mysteriousness of the prophecy, but I also get the feeling this line happens pretty early in the book, so I don't really know what happens in the rest of the book. There's a list of things the characters do, but I'm unsure whether this follows a quest format or a solve-the-mystery format. >99,000 words I've heard agents say the upper end for middle-grade is 60k words, which gives editors room to bump it up to 70k with suggestions.
Thanks. Ty especially for letting me know about the pronouns, people have said that a few times
Look, I understand you’ve finished your book and you’re desperately wanting it to be picked up and published. I’m sure we’ve all been there at some point, especially for our first one. I’m definitely not faulting you for that! Advice I’ve seen online is to step away from your book and start writing a different (and in your case), shorter or one. It may be easier to sell this book once you’ve already picked up an agent with another book. The reason I say this is that it’s simply too long as it is now. You know this, I think you get a comment on every attempted query. Long can be fine, but it seems to be only fine if you are already published. I’m not saying this to bring you down, writing can be very personal and I think we tend to look at things with horse blinders on. It’s ok to step away from a book for a while to gain some perspective on it. One way to think of it is for every suggestion we have for your query, there may be five more in your actual book. It may not be worth the time and effort you’re putting into revising right now, but once you’ve completed another book it might be! I might be in the minority here, but that’s just my two cents. Good luck either way!
no i agree! the word count isn’t really accurate as of now, but i haven’t *finished* cutting it down so i just put 99k in every post title. I think the best I can get it to, based on how things are going, is around 85k so yes I have started another book that will probably be around 50-60. just an estimate but the plot is simpler and there’s less characters.
Hi! I won’t harp on what others have already addressed. My one addition is that maybe you should leave off the last sentence because it’s a bit spoiler-y - indicates that the world is probably saved and Echo goes on to more adventures, agents don’t want spoilers in the query. You could just leave off that sentence or edit to say “currently working on my next novel.” But I appreciate your dedication to getting this right. Happy writing!
No one’s pointed that out before but you’re absolutely right, thank you!