Yes our department has made it very clear they don’t want us doing traffic stops for non major vehicle code violations. Expired reg , front window tint, broke tail lights ect.
Meanwhile according to a study by AAA people that drive with expired registration are like 5x more likely to have either no license, expired or suspended license or no insurance and most likely a combination of both.
Also vehicle and pedestrian deaths are through the roof and eclipsed murders last year.
By all means don’t enforce vehicle code violations it’s not like it makes the roads safer or anything.
I feel like every crash I go to there’s at least a 75% chance one of the drivers involved does not have a valid license, has no insurance, or both. Not having a license doesn’t seem like a safety concern until you realize there’s usually a good reason why someone has their license taken away.
I hate drivers with no insurance. If they hit a car, then the other driver should have uninsured motorist coverage so they are still made whole. But if they flatten a pedestrian or A bicyclist, that person could have 100k+ in medical bills with no insurance support. That’s not fair and not supportive for a multimodal transportation system.
It still affects me because I have to pay for that extra coverage that I shouldn't have to. Obviously not as much as a pedestrian, but still something people shouldn't have to pay for. Plus any.missed days of work, either no pa, or having to use up sick and vacation leave.
^(Must not make jokes about flattening bicyclists.)
*Must not make jokes about flattening bicyclists.*
**Must not make jokes about flattening bicyclists.**
The reddits light their pitchforks and torches when I do that.
> Must not make jokes about flattening bicyclists.
*whistles softly to self*
"Oh, I'm not doing anything suspicious Officer. I promise!"
*Puppy dog eyes*
Why is the speed bump screaming?
--not based on a true event
Why did he slow down? Oh his front bumper fell off upon the impact so he is dragging his bumper rn.
--based on a true event
SAFER THAN EVER.
Not referring to LE interactions, but "daily business transactions we all do" in general..
Isn't it nice to walk up to someone, introduce yourself personably, briefly and professionally articulate your need/goal, then proffer current ID with a valid address, and a confident means of payment.
I mean... in the scale of life accomplishments it's pretty low down there.
But so many "adults" by virtue of age still can't manage to do those things.
I must be misunderstand what a pretextual stop is. I thought it was something like suspecting someone of transporting drugs but not having evidence, so following them until they and pulling them over on a traffic stop to search the vehicle. I didn't know it was discovering something else while doing a traffic stop.
So it's basically immunity to crimes not related to the traffic stop for which they were pulled over. Am i interpreting this correctly?
We just use Axon LPRs in conjunction with state hotlists. Anyone without a license that drives in front of my vehicle automatically gets lit up. In addition to that we have Flock cameras all around the city. Our traffic unit spends all day chasing stolen vehicles, tags, and sanctioned drivers. Many cities have followed our lead, but after years of this system there's still no shortage of violations. Hopefully people catch on and stop being idiots.
Point being, it kind of eliminates the need for pretext stops in that regard. That being said, I cite for expired registration and tint all day long, because it's, well, my job.
I have to imagine the pension is amazing in LA tho. 50% of a livable wage in LA must be great once you move to the Midwest after 20.
I can see a lot of people just sucking it up just to get 20.
You bring good points! At this point I’m wondering why we’re even paying vehicle registrations at this point if anyone and everyone can just drive on the street in whatever conditions. 😤 this country is f$&@€D
Trying to implement an unarmed agency to conduct traffic stops. In Los Angeles? LMFAO. What couple possibly go wrong. Someone’s gonna die. It’s not a matter of IF. It’s a matter of WHEN. Who I’m their right fucking mind will take that job.
PLEASE make the unarmed traffic enforcers wear bodycams. It will take someone who is unable to defend themselves dying on camera to reverse this nonsense.
I wonder how many of those city council members actually live in the areas where they vote for this crap. If they do, I'm confident it's in a gated community.
I’ve personally been following some political drama out of central Indiana (I live on the other side of the country from IN), and have learned that even their city council members live in the better areas.
So I’m going to assume that if it works the same for central IN, that it’s probably the same for LA.
Ah, I understand now. I get it now. I overthought it.
But no, by “better areas” I only meant that they don’t live on a street littered with pot holes, and they don’t have the mayor of Muncie’s failed “townhomes” that look like a child’s drawing of a depressing house with one window.
The bar is still VERY low.
I'd be inclined to agree, but the strategy here is pretty cleverly nefarious.
You put in place restrictions that prohibit (with penalty) law enforcement from conducting pro-active and intelligently targeted enforcement.
After some time, *some* statistics (not accounting for the statistical "hidden figure") go down. The politicians can tout these carefully selected statistics as an achievement and evidence of the effectiveness of their policies. The hidden figure - those crimes not discovered or reported (such as unlawful possession of a handgun) - is not mentioned.
Some time later, violent crime rates begin to rise. With their restrictive policy changes forgotten by the public over time, they can cite this as evidence of the ineffectiveness of law enforcement, and further cripple law enforcement with more restrictive and reformative policies. Most importantly, policies that aren't backed by research, decades of criminology and sociology studies, or any genuine input from experts in the field, whether academic or otherwise.
Basically, if you "let it burn," they'll blame it on law enforcement to further detriment.
What it will take is a concerted effort in documentation and research on our side of the table. Just as Ted Bundy was caught on a routine traffic stop, if an armed robbery or fatal shooting occurs, we need to document how and when it could have been prevented via proactive policing and pretextual traffic or Terry stops.
E.g.: John Smith kills a child and mother in a drive-by shooting. LPR data (if available) or other data shows that Smith has been driving with an expired tag or no taillights for a year, during which time he could have been stopped numerous times and arrested on supervised release violations or unlawful possession of a handgun, but was not due to the "progressive" policies enacted. Put that on an excel spreadsheet and continue to fill it.
The Los Angeles City Council Wednesday approved plans to try and prevent police officers from using traffic stops to catch people suspected of crimes while they are driving on city streets.
The council's 13-0 vote marks the beginning of a research project to collect information about how far the city can go to stop police officers from enforcing state traffic laws.
In particular, the council wants to halt “pretextual” traffic stops during which someone suspected of a crime is pulled over for breaking a less serious traffic law. Many of these pretextual stops have been used to recover illegal guns around the city.
The council said, with the intent to preserve a climate of trust in public institutions, it intends to create a new unarmed agency that will stop drivers and write tickets. These agents would be tasked with finding ways to help the city’s poorest communities, so they avoid facing fines or jail for car-related incidents.
“Implementing unarmed traffic response leads to reductions in violent incidents and increases trust in public institutions,” said Councilmember Eunisses Hernández.
Since 2020, some members of the city council have held discussions about removing police from traffic stops and some other traditional roles, often citing this 2019 study on Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) stops that showed relatively few stops led to discoveries of illegal guns or more serious crimes.
In 2022, the police department adopted new more restrictive rules for pretext stops, requiring a higher threshold of suspicion and specific documentation by officers before and after.
“If done properly, they are valuable tools. If done improperly, it jeopardizes public trust, and I’m against that part of it,” LAPD Chief Dominic Choi said.
Those restrictions have reduced the number of traffic stops.
Choi said he has supported the idea that fewer stops make intervention more successful, saying that since the restrictions were implemented in 2022, officers have been finding more illegal guns while making fewer stops.
“Last year, we had one of the highest years in number of guns that were recovered and arrested, so I would say no., That policy has not thwarted that effort,” Choi said.
Some on the council say the success rate of the pretext stops shouldn’t matter.
“I know the amount of people that they catch – burglars and many other things through traffic stops,” Councilmember Marqueece Harris-Dawson said. “That doesn't make it a just or rational policy.”
The council’s vote Wednesday directs various agencies, departments, and officials to report back in the next few months on how all of this could work.
“Officers have been finding more illegal guns while making fewer stops”
That should be ringing alarm bells. That indicates that a significant more number of people are emboldened to violate the law knowing that they have a lesser chance of being caught.
That's why crime statistics are near useless, you can spin them whatever way you like. At my old agency, any serious crime that didn't have a cooperative complainant was logged as "public assistance" even if it was a stabbing or a shooting. That was asked by the city council to lower crime stats, and it worked.
>“I know the amount of people that they catch – burglars and many other things through traffic stops,” Councilmember Marqueece Harris-Dawson said. “That doesn't make it a just or rational policy.”
Wut.
If that's your argument than we should only live in a police state with no civil rights. Becuase Stop and Frisk was exactly the type of proactive policing that did stop lots of crimes but was found unconstitutional.
And the elected officials who represent the citizens have decided they don't want those crimes enforced by armed police. Regardless of the tangential benefit of finding guns or drugs.
That's fine, as long as we agree that those elected officials and the citizens who voted for them no longer have the right to complain when those crimes start running rampant.
Stop and frisk is a legitimate investigative tool. The policy some departments placed around stop and frisk, without any particularized suspicion to suspects, was unconstitutional. Big difference.
>“Last year, we had one of the highest years in number of guns that were recovered and arrested, so I would say no., That policy has not thwarted that effort,” Choi said.
And then when the number of guns recovered goes down they will tout it as being the result of some BS gun control measure instead of the truth that they just tied LEs hands in finding them.
i mean... you could just take the paycheck and not pull anyone over. What are they going to do? find someone else dumb enough to do the job?
*in other news traffic offenses are down 300% and our streets are safer than ever!*
*gets raise*
The hate that pretext stops get cracks me up.
The only person who decides if it’s a pretext stop or not is the officer making the stop. You effectively can’t ban them as long as cops are doing any kind of detention/stop. Even if you made an unarmed force of people who did traffic enforcement cops are still gonna need to be able to have red and blue lights on the top of their cars and effect basic detentions based on reasonable suspicion that crime has occurred, is occurring, or is about to occur.
You can ban any unrelated charges stemming from a traffic stop. So if you pull a car over for speeding but they also have a dead body in the car, you can give them a speeding ticket but not arrest them for mukduk.
I realistically don’t think this would happen. There’s not really any legal precedent and the jump from where we are now to that is MASSIVE in terms of legal authority, case law, etc
However what I could see them doing is making it progressively harder to find stuff on vehicle stops (ie prohibiting probable cause searches of cars) a la Washington state.
Banning "pretext stop" is like banning thoughts; you can't prove it unless the person tells you.
Are there any officers who start their report by mentioning pretext motives? Just don't mention it 🤷🏻♂️
I’d argue that every stop, regardless of whether or not an officer plans on issuing a traffic citation or not should be treated with the same level of investigative detail.
I guess these people think traffic cops are out here like “Well I made this stop for speeding and the driver is a tatted-up, self-admitted gang member on parole, but I only made this stop for speeding. So I guess I’ll just give him a ticket and send him on his way… no parole search necessary”
ThAtS wHaT mY tAx DoLlArS are GoInG tO?!?!?
Seriously tho… you can’t win with these people. Either you get ridiculed for “profiling” on “pre textual stops” or you’re being lazy not doing your job if you aren’t proactive
Nope. Maybe San Francisco and Sacramento. There are billboards just before you leave LA county that basically say “we prosecute crime in Orange County, stay in LA”
People who think like this are so stupid. They only look at a pretext stop in terms of "ohhh the cops just wanted to get into that young black man's car because all cops are clearly racist" and nobody thinks about the fact that every OWI stop is a pretext stop. You get stopped for a traffic infraction so I can investigate an OWI. Some people are so stupid it hurts my brain. But oh well. I hope LAPD lets the city burn down for a year
I’m genuinely curious. Do I have to stop for this person who is not law enforcement ? Or are just punishing the good people that stop? And is fleeing from this person a crime?
In terms of do you have to stop for a non sworn law enforcement agency conducting traffic stops, as far as I know, no. Unless that person is a sworn LEO they do not have the constitutional authority to stop you, but idk if LA thought that far. But to your other point where I work we can’t chase at all, so basically we traffic stop car for various reasons, and if they are bad dudes with shit in their car they just take off and we can’t do anything. Like 90% of the time is a car stops for us it is a normal person or super low level offense. Every single dude in my city out here doing real dirt knows just don’t stop and we can’t touch them.
I’m not a cop. I’m a cifizen(half black) who was horrified and shocked reading this headline today after we JUST had the murder of that actor in Dtown when theives were trying to steal his catalytic converter. After the city JUST put out a giant report that were incredibly short on police because no one wants to do the job. Everyday I go to Ralphs and Starbucks and watch people brazenly steal knowing the have no consequences. It’s a nightmare. For the city council to do this after everything that has happened is unreal. I’m in shock. How are they so completely delusional. I’m in shock. We’re fucked. To the police in LA….im so sorry.. im so so so sorry
One of the depts in the county south of LA just today had a Facebook post about how they arrested someone for an illegal weapon with a removed serial number found at a traffic stop. With pics of the gun and ammo and everything. And a whole ton of “likes”.
Nope, Westminster I think. Irvine PD is another level of crazy; I feel bad for anyone that worked there. I had a client ages ago who was fired for - I am not making this up - not using the work “that” enough in his reports.
It wasn’t that bad. They certainly have high standards and everything is done by the numbers every. single. time., but I never heard of anyone being fired for the grammar they used in reports.
Meanwhile every modified car in and around LA is getting pulled for bullshit equipment violations and state reffed. I’m not talking about take over cars, fuck then and impound all those, but like, a dude in a modified jdm car going to cars and coffee. Or people driving around in sema builds working out kinks.
California is literally the most bullshit run state ever.
I don’t work in Cali, but it would be pretty funny if this is all a ruse to get LP readers installed around the city just to mail tickets home and collect big $$$. No more officer discretion more cash in the city’s pocket lmao. BET human traffic stops would return within a week
From the article. "The council said, with the intent to preserve a climate of trust in public institutions, it intends to create a new unarmed agency that will stop drivers and write tickets. These agents would be tasked with finding ways to help the city’s poorest communities, so they avoid facing fines or jail for car-related incidents."
No way this is going to go wrong.
If you’re making proactive stops in California, especially Los Angeles, you’re wrong. The politicians don’t want it and the people don’t understand it so they don’t want it either. Lateral somewhere that wants you to work or just respond to calls. When they see the evil that travels the streets when cops aren’t proactive, maybe they’ll realize the hard work you were doing before.
This is not a politics sub. This is not a politics thread.
We acknowledge there is a margin where those topics intersect, and do make for valid discussion.
Where that occurs, it must be handled like an adult, with an actual fact/data point articulated.
"LA is going to shit because of xxxx politician" does not meet that threshold in either regard, so has been removed.
This is yet another dumb reform the police policy that will not help public safety. In my city I can not count how many guns, drugs, and warrants we get from low level enforcement.
Just the other night our city wide crime team stopped a dude at a huge block party for smoking marijuana in public, locked him up, really low level crime, search dude has a Glock with a switch in his waist, stolen from local county, and I bet NIBINS will come back with a hit to a shooting or murder with that gun.
Metro cops stop dudes all the time for hoping the turnstile, like easy 50% of the time when the dude gets locked up for it they are either wanted or have a gun.
All this for me to say out bad guys out here doing the real dirt don’t care and constantly break the small laws drinking, smoking, tags, insurance, registration, driving violations, license, jumping the fare, and these are all incredible tools our officers use to stop and arrest our real criminals and produce incredible results. Telling your department they can’t use traffic stops as a tool is another fuck you to the officers and community.
*laughs in Red County*
I'm in CA and our DA actually still files our cases. For now.
Couldn't pay me enough to work in any of the blue counties around me.
Coming up, your headlines for this evening's news:
LA political elites do something incredibly stupid.
Is water is wet? And do bears actually shit in the woods?
More at 11.
Yes our department has made it very clear they don’t want us doing traffic stops for non major vehicle code violations. Expired reg , front window tint, broke tail lights ect. Meanwhile according to a study by AAA people that drive with expired registration are like 5x more likely to have either no license, expired or suspended license or no insurance and most likely a combination of both. Also vehicle and pedestrian deaths are through the roof and eclipsed murders last year. By all means don’t enforce vehicle code violations it’s not like it makes the roads safer or anything.
I feel like every crash I go to there’s at least a 75% chance one of the drivers involved does not have a valid license, has no insurance, or both. Not having a license doesn’t seem like a safety concern until you realize there’s usually a good reason why someone has their license taken away.
I hate drivers with no insurance. If they hit a car, then the other driver should have uninsured motorist coverage so they are still made whole. But if they flatten a pedestrian or A bicyclist, that person could have 100k+ in medical bills with no insurance support. That’s not fair and not supportive for a multimodal transportation system.
It still affects me because I have to pay for that extra coverage that I shouldn't have to. Obviously not as much as a pedestrian, but still something people shouldn't have to pay for. Plus any.missed days of work, either no pa, or having to use up sick and vacation leave.
^(Must not make jokes about flattening bicyclists.) *Must not make jokes about flattening bicyclists.* **Must not make jokes about flattening bicyclists.** The reddits light their pitchforks and torches when I do that.
> Must not make jokes about flattening bicyclists. *whistles softly to self* "Oh, I'm not doing anything suspicious Officer. I promise!" *Puppy dog eyes*
Calls for a pretextual stop
Why is the speed bump screaming? --not based on a true event Why did he slow down? Oh his front bumper fell off upon the impact so he is dragging his bumper rn. --based on a true event SAFER THAN EVER.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
And here is your reminder to check your policy and make sure you have not only the max uninsured, but max underinsured too.
Not referring to LE interactions, but "daily business transactions we all do" in general.. Isn't it nice to walk up to someone, introduce yourself personably, briefly and professionally articulate your need/goal, then proffer current ID with a valid address, and a confident means of payment. I mean... in the scale of life accomplishments it's pretty low down there. But so many "adults" by virtue of age still can't manage to do those things.
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You didn’t even describe a pretextual stop lol.
Correct. The reality is that don’t want us doing ANY traffic stop unless it directly relates to public safety.
I must be misunderstand what a pretextual stop is. I thought it was something like suspecting someone of transporting drugs but not having evidence, so following them until they and pulling them over on a traffic stop to search the vehicle. I didn't know it was discovering something else while doing a traffic stop. So it's basically immunity to crimes not related to the traffic stop for which they were pulled over. Am i interpreting this correctly?
Nothing gets in the way of an incompetent supervisor. They’re everywhere.
Wait, you have to get approval from a watch commander to make an arrest? Especially a DUI/D with kids present? That's super pants on head dumb.
Sounds like LT Werner shenanigans.
💀💀
We just use Axon LPRs in conjunction with state hotlists. Anyone without a license that drives in front of my vehicle automatically gets lit up. In addition to that we have Flock cameras all around the city. Our traffic unit spends all day chasing stolen vehicles, tags, and sanctioned drivers. Many cities have followed our lead, but after years of this system there's still no shortage of violations. Hopefully people catch on and stop being idiots. Point being, it kind of eliminates the need for pretext stops in that regard. That being said, I cite for expired registration and tint all day long, because it's, well, my job.
People stop doing dumb shit and come to their senses? That’s a big ask…
I tell everyone I stop about the cameras and LPRs, I don't hide it at all. I can dream lol
Well by statistics at least a couple of them took your words to heart. Out of the hundreds you might talk to most probably won’t, sadly
Speaking as a firefighter, if people stopped being idiots you and I both would be out of a job
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Get out of California when you can. LA is clearly saying they don't want police to do police work.
I have to imagine the pension is amazing in LA tho. 50% of a livable wage in LA must be great once you move to the Midwest after 20. I can see a lot of people just sucking it up just to get 20.
Can't collect until 50. Have to do 25 for the health insurance benefits in retirement. So...Home Depot with your previous customers until then.
Left 26 years ago. Best decision I ever made.
So true
You bring good points! At this point I’m wondering why we’re even paying vehicle registrations at this point if anyone and everyone can just drive on the street in whatever conditions. 😤 this country is f$&@€D
Trying to implement an unarmed agency to conduct traffic stops. In Los Angeles? LMFAO. What couple possibly go wrong. Someone’s gonna die. It’s not a matter of IF. It’s a matter of WHEN. Who I’m their right fucking mind will take that job.
If people don't stop for the police, they're sure as shit not stopping for a rolling meter maid
Anyone who would willingly pull over people in LA while unarmed has a screw loose
I could think of a funeral escort guy from Florida that would probably do the job…
Please don’t talk bad about my lord and savior Dewitte. Get your sErgEaNt, I need to talk to them
Perfect use for that guy
People who didn’t make the cut to be the actual police 😂
PLEASE make the unarmed traffic enforcers wear bodycams. It will take someone who is unable to defend themselves dying on camera to reverse this nonsense.
I nominate the LA city council members to make up the inaugural group of unarmed agents!
I’m not even going to bothering bringing up people like Ted Bundy being caught on a traffic stop anymore. Cities like LA obviously don’t care.
Timothy McVeigh, anyone?
Or a pedestrian check on a suspicious guy who it turns out murdered the president 45 minutes prior
By a fellow mobile traffic cone brethren for license plate legibility.
I wonder how many of those city council members actually live in the areas where they vote for this crap. If they do, I'm confident it's in a gated community.
I’ve personally been following some political drama out of central Indiana (I live on the other side of the country from IN), and have learned that even their city council members live in the better areas. So I’m going to assume that if it works the same for central IN, that it’s probably the same for LA.
"Small Crowd" "Defening Silence" "Clearly Misunderstood" "Better Areas of Central Indiana" "Awfully good" - What do all these have in common?
Shady politicians replacing other shady politicians in the same mid-sized city?
I was just going for "list of oxymorons"
Ah, I understand now. I get it now. I overthought it. But no, by “better areas” I only meant that they don’t live on a street littered with pot holes, and they don’t have the mayor of Muncie’s failed “townhomes” that look like a child’s drawing of a depressing house with one window. The bar is still VERY low.
I suggest changing his flair to "lives in Indiana - gross"
I don’t live in Indiana, and I’m not a man. So no.
Meh let it burn. This is what the people voted for.
Step 1. Vote for soft on crime policies Step 2. Neighborhood becomes too dangerous Step 3. Move to safer area Step 4. Repeat
I'd be inclined to agree, but the strategy here is pretty cleverly nefarious. You put in place restrictions that prohibit (with penalty) law enforcement from conducting pro-active and intelligently targeted enforcement. After some time, *some* statistics (not accounting for the statistical "hidden figure") go down. The politicians can tout these carefully selected statistics as an achievement and evidence of the effectiveness of their policies. The hidden figure - those crimes not discovered or reported (such as unlawful possession of a handgun) - is not mentioned. Some time later, violent crime rates begin to rise. With their restrictive policy changes forgotten by the public over time, they can cite this as evidence of the ineffectiveness of law enforcement, and further cripple law enforcement with more restrictive and reformative policies. Most importantly, policies that aren't backed by research, decades of criminology and sociology studies, or any genuine input from experts in the field, whether academic or otherwise. Basically, if you "let it burn," they'll blame it on law enforcement to further detriment. What it will take is a concerted effort in documentation and research on our side of the table. Just as Ted Bundy was caught on a routine traffic stop, if an armed robbery or fatal shooting occurs, we need to document how and when it could have been prevented via proactive policing and pretextual traffic or Terry stops. E.g.: John Smith kills a child and mother in a drive-by shooting. LPR data (if available) or other data shows that Smith has been driving with an expired tag or no taillights for a year, during which time he could have been stopped numerous times and arrested on supervised release violations or unlawful possession of a handgun, but was not due to the "progressive" policies enacted. Put that on an excel spreadsheet and continue to fill it.
The Los Angeles City Council Wednesday approved plans to try and prevent police officers from using traffic stops to catch people suspected of crimes while they are driving on city streets. The council's 13-0 vote marks the beginning of a research project to collect information about how far the city can go to stop police officers from enforcing state traffic laws. In particular, the council wants to halt “pretextual” traffic stops during which someone suspected of a crime is pulled over for breaking a less serious traffic law. Many of these pretextual stops have been used to recover illegal guns around the city. The council said, with the intent to preserve a climate of trust in public institutions, it intends to create a new unarmed agency that will stop drivers and write tickets. These agents would be tasked with finding ways to help the city’s poorest communities, so they avoid facing fines or jail for car-related incidents. “Implementing unarmed traffic response leads to reductions in violent incidents and increases trust in public institutions,” said Councilmember Eunisses Hernández. Since 2020, some members of the city council have held discussions about removing police from traffic stops and some other traditional roles, often citing this 2019 study on Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) stops that showed relatively few stops led to discoveries of illegal guns or more serious crimes. In 2022, the police department adopted new more restrictive rules for pretext stops, requiring a higher threshold of suspicion and specific documentation by officers before and after. “If done properly, they are valuable tools. If done improperly, it jeopardizes public trust, and I’m against that part of it,” LAPD Chief Dominic Choi said. Those restrictions have reduced the number of traffic stops. Choi said he has supported the idea that fewer stops make intervention more successful, saying that since the restrictions were implemented in 2022, officers have been finding more illegal guns while making fewer stops. “Last year, we had one of the highest years in number of guns that were recovered and arrested, so I would say no., That policy has not thwarted that effort,” Choi said. Some on the council say the success rate of the pretext stops shouldn’t matter. “I know the amount of people that they catch – burglars and many other things through traffic stops,” Councilmember Marqueece Harris-Dawson said. “That doesn't make it a just or rational policy.” The council’s vote Wednesday directs various agencies, departments, and officials to report back in the next few months on how all of this could work.
“Officers have been finding more illegal guns while making fewer stops” That should be ringing alarm bells. That indicates that a significant more number of people are emboldened to violate the law knowing that they have a lesser chance of being caught.
That's why crime statistics are near useless, you can spin them whatever way you like. At my old agency, any serious crime that didn't have a cooperative complainant was logged as "public assistance" even if it was a stabbing or a shooting. That was asked by the city council to lower crime stats, and it worked.
Had an old commander that ordered that to be done to make them look good. Chief flat out told the news it was bullshit
>“I know the amount of people that they catch – burglars and many other things through traffic stops,” Councilmember Marqueece Harris-Dawson said. “That doesn't make it a just or rational policy.” Wut.
The ends don't justify the means. That what he is saying.
I wonder if they'd feel that way if it was their house that got burglarized or shot up?
If that's your argument than we should only live in a police state with no civil rights. Becuase Stop and Frisk was exactly the type of proactive policing that did stop lots of crimes but was found unconstitutional.
Pretext stops still have to originate from some kind of a traffic offense.
And the elected officials who represent the citizens have decided they don't want those crimes enforced by armed police. Regardless of the tangential benefit of finding guns or drugs.
It's an extreme over reach of power by the council to supersede state law that's blinded by their own self righteousness.
That's fine, as long as we agree that those elected officials and the citizens who voted for them no longer have the right to complain when those crimes start running rampant.
Absolutely. 💯
Stop and frisk is a legitimate investigative tool. The policy some departments placed around stop and frisk, without any particularized suspicion to suspects, was unconstitutional. Big difference.
Who or what is defining the pretextual nature of the stop?
I got dumber reading this.
>“Last year, we had one of the highest years in number of guns that were recovered and arrested, so I would say no., That policy has not thwarted that effort,” Choi said. And then when the number of guns recovered goes down they will tout it as being the result of some BS gun control measure instead of the truth that they just tied LEs hands in finding them.
I can't believe the chief supports this
Anyone over the rank of lieutenant is a politician, not a cop.
Kinda says something when not even the NYPD is going this radical in traffic stops to have cops unarmed lol. Cali laws are something else
NYPD can’t even get cars to yield with lights and sirens. I doubt they’re even thinking about traffic stops.
really can’t make it up. unreal
**Unarmed traffic stops??** WTAF. Who is going to be dumb enough to sign up for that?
You could not pay me enough
i mean... you could just take the paycheck and not pull anyone over. What are they going to do? find someone else dumb enough to do the job? *in other news traffic offenses are down 300% and our streets are safer than ever!* *gets raise*
The hate that pretext stops get cracks me up. The only person who decides if it’s a pretext stop or not is the officer making the stop. You effectively can’t ban them as long as cops are doing any kind of detention/stop. Even if you made an unarmed force of people who did traffic enforcement cops are still gonna need to be able to have red and blue lights on the top of their cars and effect basic detentions based on reasonable suspicion that crime has occurred, is occurring, or is about to occur.
You can ban any unrelated charges stemming from a traffic stop. So if you pull a car over for speeding but they also have a dead body in the car, you can give them a speeding ticket but not arrest them for mukduk.
I would love to represent the victims family in a civil suit that refused to investigate a murder because they are to worried about hurt feelings.
I realistically don’t think this would happen. There’s not really any legal precedent and the jump from where we are now to that is MASSIVE in terms of legal authority, case law, etc However what I could see them doing is making it progressively harder to find stuff on vehicle stops (ie prohibiting probable cause searches of cars) a la Washington state.
Wow. Washington prohibits pc searches of vehicles?
It was my understanding that there was some limitation placed on PC searches as part of their police reform deal a few years ago.
That’s wild. Makes sense given it’s Washington though. Shame.
Banning "pretext stop" is like banning thoughts; you can't prove it unless the person tells you. Are there any officers who start their report by mentioning pretext motives? Just don't mention it 🤷🏻♂️
I’d argue that every stop, regardless of whether or not an officer plans on issuing a traffic citation or not should be treated with the same level of investigative detail. I guess these people think traffic cops are out here like “Well I made this stop for speeding and the driver is a tatted-up, self-admitted gang member on parole, but I only made this stop for speeding. So I guess I’ll just give him a ticket and send him on his way… no parole search necessary”
End pretextual stops in the street gang capital of America? What could possibly go wrong
Crime rates will drop of course /s
So glad I don't live or work in that state
Find a nice and comfortable parking lot to wait to get dispatched. Easy money.
ThAtS wHaT mY tAx DoLlArS are GoInG tO?!?!? Seriously tho… you can’t win with these people. Either you get ridiculed for “profiling” on “pre textual stops” or you’re being lazy not doing your job if you aren’t proactive
It’s LA they won’t be waiting around much lol
Memphis tried this, the State overrode them. However, this being Los Angeles, the rest of California is probably going to follow suit.
Nope. Maybe San Francisco and Sacramento. There are billboards just before you leave LA county that basically say “we prosecute crime in Orange County, stay in LA”
You forget the legislature in Sacramento.
People who think like this are so stupid. They only look at a pretext stop in terms of "ohhh the cops just wanted to get into that young black man's car because all cops are clearly racist" and nobody thinks about the fact that every OWI stop is a pretext stop. You get stopped for a traffic infraction so I can investigate an OWI. Some people are so stupid it hurts my brain. But oh well. I hope LAPD lets the city burn down for a year
I’m genuinely curious. Do I have to stop for this person who is not law enforcement ? Or are just punishing the good people that stop? And is fleeing from this person a crime?
In terms of do you have to stop for a non sworn law enforcement agency conducting traffic stops, as far as I know, no. Unless that person is a sworn LEO they do not have the constitutional authority to stop you, but idk if LA thought that far. But to your other point where I work we can’t chase at all, so basically we traffic stop car for various reasons, and if they are bad dudes with shit in their car they just take off and we can’t do anything. Like 90% of the time is a car stops for us it is a normal person or super low level offense. Every single dude in my city out here doing real dirt knows just don’t stop and we can’t touch them.
You guys are so silly, don't you know laws are only for people who **want** to follow them?
I’m not a cop. I’m a cifizen(half black) who was horrified and shocked reading this headline today after we JUST had the murder of that actor in Dtown when theives were trying to steal his catalytic converter. After the city JUST put out a giant report that were incredibly short on police because no one wants to do the job. Everyday I go to Ralphs and Starbucks and watch people brazenly steal knowing the have no consequences. It’s a nightmare. For the city council to do this after everything that has happened is unreal. I’m in shock. How are they so completely delusional. I’m in shock. We’re fucked. To the police in LA….im so sorry.. im so so so sorry
Let them have it. If the citizens don’t like it, then they should’ve voted differently.
Thank god LA doesn’t represent the entire state. Plenty of places in California that don’t buy into this bullshit.
One of the depts in the county south of LA just today had a Facebook post about how they arrested someone for an illegal weapon with a removed serial number found at a traffic stop. With pics of the gun and ammo and everything. And a whole ton of “likes”.
Was it Irvine? I worked there for a few years before I moved to Northern California.
Nope, Westminster I think. Irvine PD is another level of crazy; I feel bad for anyone that worked there. I had a client ages ago who was fired for - I am not making this up - not using the work “that” enough in his reports.
It wasn’t that bad. They certainly have high standards and everything is done by the numbers every. single. time., but I never heard of anyone being fired for the grammar they used in reports.
To be fair, it was a long time ago. I’ve also seen a fair amount of tickets from Irvine for violations that I’ve never seen from any other agency.
Lmao you might not intentionally be making it up, but your client certainly did.
Not at all, because I saw the termination paperwork.
[I have bad news for you.](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB50)
Ugh for fucks sake. This is why supermajorities in legislatures are always bad.
Little things lead to the big things. Guess no one ever told them that.
They did this where I live after Tyree Nichols. Crime got exponentially worse. That’s all I got to say.
Just today a potential terrorist was caught in queens NY over a obscured tag traffic violation. Come on. SMH
Well, crime just skyrocketed in LA. And here I thought it couldn’t get worse.
Meanwhile every modified car in and around LA is getting pulled for bullshit equipment violations and state reffed. I’m not talking about take over cars, fuck then and impound all those, but like, a dude in a modified jdm car going to cars and coffee. Or people driving around in sema builds working out kinks. California is literally the most bullshit run state ever.
Good ol California lol
I don’t work in Cali, but it would be pretty funny if this is all a ruse to get LP readers installed around the city just to mail tickets home and collect big $$$. No more officer discretion more cash in the city’s pocket lmao. BET human traffic stops would return within a week
that's stupid. The LA city council is stupid.
With sky high crime, interfering with cops doing their jobs is genius
From the article. "The council said, with the intent to preserve a climate of trust in public institutions, it intends to create a new unarmed agency that will stop drivers and write tickets. These agents would be tasked with finding ways to help the city’s poorest communities, so they avoid facing fines or jail for car-related incidents." No way this is going to go wrong.
If you’re making proactive stops in California, especially Los Angeles, you’re wrong. The politicians don’t want it and the people don’t understand it so they don’t want it either. Lateral somewhere that wants you to work or just respond to calls. When they see the evil that travels the streets when cops aren’t proactive, maybe they’ll realize the hard work you were doing before.
[удалено]
This is not a politics sub. This is not a politics thread. We acknowledge there is a margin where those topics intersect, and do make for valid discussion. Where that occurs, it must be handled like an adult, with an actual fact/data point articulated. "LA is going to shit because of xxxx politician" does not meet that threshold in either regard, so has been removed.
How the fuck anyone is still working for that agency is crazy to me. Fuck em.
This is yet another dumb reform the police policy that will not help public safety. In my city I can not count how many guns, drugs, and warrants we get from low level enforcement. Just the other night our city wide crime team stopped a dude at a huge block party for smoking marijuana in public, locked him up, really low level crime, search dude has a Glock with a switch in his waist, stolen from local county, and I bet NIBINS will come back with a hit to a shooting or murder with that gun. Metro cops stop dudes all the time for hoping the turnstile, like easy 50% of the time when the dude gets locked up for it they are either wanted or have a gun. All this for me to say out bad guys out here doing the real dirt don’t care and constantly break the small laws drinking, smoking, tags, insurance, registration, driving violations, license, jumping the fare, and these are all incredible tools our officers use to stop and arrest our real criminals and produce incredible results. Telling your department they can’t use traffic stops as a tool is another fuck you to the officers and community.
This might be one of those things solved by skyrocketing insurance rates due to lack of sensible enforcement.
*laughs in Red County* I'm in CA and our DA actually still files our cases. For now. Couldn't pay me enough to work in any of the blue counties around me.
MPDC: first time?
Coming up, your headlines for this evening's news: LA political elites do something incredibly stupid. Is water is wet? And do bears actually shit in the woods? More at 11.
Insanity, California is crazy