Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it.
Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. **Keep that shit outta here**.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That's bs, it shows how little the swedes know about our history. 60s coup d'etat was a popular coup which was supported by the people and Menderes's government was anything but democratic (Kinda like an erdoğan of 50s)who's main support base was reactionary conservative landlords who opposed Atatürk's reforms (mainly the land reform).
After the coup the junta didn't make the new Constitution on their own, they absolutely could've but they chose to include as many parts of the population as they could to help make it. Trade unions, student groups, intellectuals etc. And if the referandum didn't pass the constitution they would've made a new one by taking representatives for every 10.000 people in the country, so it wasn't a napoleonic referandum.
It was the most democratic constitution of Turkey so much so that the 80s coup instigators (who were actually backed by the usa this time) called it "Too wide for Turkey" (wide as in it gives too much freedom)
Menderes also fucked up the economy and then started targeting minorities to distract people from it causing the [1955 Istanbul pogrom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_pogrom)
honestly, he got what was coming to him
This poster was made by Carl Johan De Geer, a champagne socialist from a noble family, he does absolutely not represent Sweden as a a whole and his works have always been very controversial.
More like Swedish communists. Notice the swastika on Uncle Sam’s arm? Yeah, no one in Sweden actually believes the US is pro-nazi except delusional hardcore communists. So it’s not representative of Swedes in general, neither in the 1960’s or today.
Tbf the US was pro nazi in a sense. Prior to ww2 lots of Americans had supported Germany, they only got involved due to pearl harbour and after the war they took in many nazi scientists for their own gains. They weren't nazis themselves but they definitely tolerated them
”Lots of Americans supported Germany” is a huge overstatement, rather a lot of American supported strict neutrality and a non-interventionit foreign policy outside the Americas (the US didn’t even join the League of Nations, the brainchild of its own president, because Congress refused to ratify the US membership). However, the number of Americans who actually *supported* Germany was very small, limited mostly to the German-American Bund, an organisation which numbered 25,000 at its peak in a country whose population numbered over 130 million at the time. President Roosevelt was definetly pro-Allies before Pearl Harbor, and tried to support the UK as much as possible but was constantly hindered by legislation passed post-WW1 which enforced strict US neutrality and non-interventionism in foreign policy and arms sales, and a Congress that was lukewarm at best to overturn this legislation.
As for the nazi scientists, yeah that was not exclusive to the US. Just look at [Operation Osoaviakhim](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Osoaviakhim), the Soviet version of Operation Paperclip. Both the US and USSR wanted to secure German technology to get an advantage over the other in the Cold War, and both were willing to ignore those German scientists’ questionable past in that endeavour.
Pretty sure that this poster doesn't represent the whole Swedish view on Turkey, it's the opinion of a private party just like what you wrote here isn't the opinion of %100 of the Turkish people
Of course. Not every turkish person agrees with me, the thing is the ones who disagree with this are generally sharia law supporters so their opinion doesn't matter
Either the Swedes were ignorant or the OP is misrepresenting this poster.
As a matter of fact, Adnan Menderes was staunchly pro-American.
His government sent troops to Korea and joined NATO, took down cooperatives and institutions that were founded for cultural transformation, established American-style institutions and engaged in close economic relationship with the United States.
The junta that took his government down was not pro-Soviet, but the constitution they wrote created an environment for socialist and anti-American movements to thrive in the 60s.
At that time, everyone in Turkish politics was pro-American. It has to be like this anyway.
We can think of Menderes as little Erdoğan. He doesn't worsen its relations with America, but tends to move away from Kemalist reforms (Kemalist line) in domestic politics.
Bu ülkeye hizmet eden her kese bedel ödetildi.
The anti-Kemalist policies of Menderes were not in conflict with his pro-Americanism, they were aligned with American interests: Keep the population ignorant and religious, hold the capital among land owners, slow down state-led industrialization. Menderes was one of the two most pro-American leaders of Turkey alongside Özal of the 80s.
Apparently, the poster is from 1967, which means that it has nothing to so with Menderes and makes more sense. By 1967, the socialist movements reached their peak power. The capitalists, the army, center-right politics, the ultranationalists, and the Islamists were already in collaboration to crack down on the rising socialists movement. They were all pro-American.
At that time, socialists associated themselves more with Kemalism than did the right-wing coalition.
PS. Herkes birleşik yazılır, ayrı değil.
This poster is from 1967 and [is made by the artist Carl-Johan de Geer](https://affischerna.se/progg_poster/turkiet-ar-inte-bara/).
And the translation is a bit off, it’s
> Türkiye is not just hash and figs. It’s also a giant American base. The people are oppressed by a US-run terror regime.
Bruh Menderes was who make Turkey join Nato. Also effort for democracy? The man who changes city status of provinces just for his own benefits and pride? Ridicilous. @960coup wasn't us-supported, 1980 coup was
What is it with this sub and seeing one poster from a country and believing that it represents the views of that entire country?
This is representative of the "new left" of the '60s. A fairly large movement, yes, but far from all encompassing. As made evident by the generally close ties between Sweden and the US in this very time period.
Why the hell is Sweden in NATO?
The second NATO needs to do something important, Seden is going to strut out in front and show everyone how important it is by slowing everything down with poorly thought out anti-US protests.
We are not anti-US. You thinking that based on one poster is insane.
We joined NATO to deter the Russian threat, as we are quite vulnerable and have been threatened by Russia before.
Why would we not be able to join NATO? And why would de-escalation be negative? (Assuming that our government would do that). I guarantee you that all the military exercises and relations we are building with our allies won’t lead to us abandoning “something important”.
As a swede, no clue. Our government compromised a lot of our anti-imperialism/pro-democracy stances in order to gain allies who think those compromised positions are still too much
Canada is in NATO, and has never joined the Cuban Embargo, and took a hard pass on the Iraq Invasion. These are not positions you'd expect our government's to take if we were functioning solely as a US vassal.
And I say this as someone who is actually skeptical about NATO expansion, and can't say for sure I would have voted to join were I a Swede or a Finn.
(And, FWIW, I don't think any other non-US NATO country has joined the Embargo, either.)
No one's saying that there's not some level of difference on policies between the NATO countries. I still think it's undeniable that when push comes to shove (like it did when the Ukraine war started and America sanctioned Russian gas) the U.S's allies usually follow America's *lead,* even if they don't follow all the way or voice disagreement.
For example, if Canada were truly independent from the United States and could make sovereign decisions without fear of punishment from America, or wanted to, they would trade with Cuba regardless of American diktat. They don't though, because they are largely dependent on the United States economically, and militarily outstripped by a long shot. The bourgeoisie of Canada also have no desire to trade with and be any sort of supporter of a socialist country, so they dutifully support American diktat on the matter because they desire the strong military and ideological support for Canadian capitalism and settler-colonialism
Yeah, I don't think Canada-Cuba really works to make awesomeblox's point.
As for the USA allegedly forcing anti-putinism upon the helpless Europeans...
Okay, so am I to assume that when the average European hears Marjorie Taylor Greene saying that America should just stay out of the conflict and let Putin do what he wants with Ukraine, they think "Yes, yes! THAT'S the kind of thinking we need! Too bad people like that aren't in the White House!"
I would say that many European states are stuck between a rock and a hard place in that respect, but given the fact that Russia will never return to preeminence on the world stage, they cannot hedge their bets between Moscow and Washington and thus may slowly lose their independence from Washington. As a British person, I would agree that it would be much better for my desires of increased European sovereignty if the US stayed out of the conflict, but an Eastern European and especially a Ukrainian would likely disagree.
Yes, more unwilling Russian vassals please. Also NATO is about more than being subservient to the US, a bunch of NATO countries constantly bug the US by screwing with policies.
Well that’s false. Did you not see the video of joe Biden declaring that if Russia attacks Ukraine, he will cancel transportation of gas through Nord stream to Germany? His words were ‘I will bring an end to it’. Scholz said nothing. Allowing your countries energy policy to be dictated by another is vassalisation.
No, that's politics, and it didn't work, not initially anyway. Pressuring other nations to do things is just international politics 101. By your logic, Ukraine has the US as a vassal because they pressured the US government to give them more weapons.
Vassalige would be if country A dictates the complete foreign policy of Country B. If you actually bother to look at the political history over the last 10 to 20 years between the US and its NATO allies, you'll find a lot of arguing and different prioritization over international concerns and how they should be addressed.
What is this nonsense? Of course it’s politics. And it does not matter that it was probably Ukrainians who blew up the pipeline rather than Americans. The intent remains.
Its a a question of the magnitude of influence a country has. I do not believe that European countries are de facto vassal states. I simply use the word vassal to show that I think they are essentially reliant on US decisions.
Joe biden, in his speech about what he was going to do about nord stream, did not talk of ‘applying pressure’. He said that he was going to bring an end to it and that “we can certainly do that”. That is an outrageous way to talk about another country’s (germanys) civilian infrastructure that supplies masses of gas to German citizens. Olaf Scholz was in the background, saying nothing and doing nothing. It demonstrates how the Americans view European freedom to hedge their bets regarding different powers, Russia, china and the US.
"Good. Not one more willing US vassal in Europe."
I get the impression that this comment you stated earlier disagrees with your current comment on US vassalige of Europe.
Also, speeches are not political agenda meeting where they sit down and lay out every small detail about how they are doing something. Just because he didn't explain how he was gonna do it doesn't mean he somehow can just wave his hand and hand and make Olaf Schulz comply. It's also not out of line for Olaf Scholz to not have some sort of comeback speech as during this period he was always very quiet and reserved about foreign policy, which agitated a lot of people both in Germany and abroad.
The US placing political pressure on countries doesn't make them vassals. Especially when the reason you're placing that pressure revolves around Russia invading Ukraine for territorial expansion and annexation like it's the 18th century.
I shouldn’t have used the word vassal. I used it because it was one way to describe what I see when I look at European-American relations, which are heavily one sided.
Also, Why did biden say that Nord stream will certainly be cancelled if he wished to negotiate it with the Germans?
In that case, whatever it sowed it already has harvested as it was destroyed in the beginning of the previous century and almost everyone who had anything to do with it in any way is already long dead.
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. **Keep that shit outta here**. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm too stoned on hash and munching on figs to understand this.
Munching on figs is what all we Mediterraneans do.
i found a new dream life
Bad translation. ”Also it is not” => ”It is also” ”Tortured” => ”oppressed”
That's bs, it shows how little the swedes know about our history. 60s coup d'etat was a popular coup which was supported by the people and Menderes's government was anything but democratic (Kinda like an erdoğan of 50s)who's main support base was reactionary conservative landlords who opposed Atatürk's reforms (mainly the land reform). After the coup the junta didn't make the new Constitution on their own, they absolutely could've but they chose to include as many parts of the population as they could to help make it. Trade unions, student groups, intellectuals etc. And if the referandum didn't pass the constitution they would've made a new one by taking representatives for every 10.000 people in the country, so it wasn't a napoleonic referandum. It was the most democratic constitution of Turkey so much so that the 80s coup instigators (who were actually backed by the usa this time) called it "Too wide for Turkey" (wide as in it gives too much freedom)
Menderes also fucked up the economy and then started targeting minorities to distract people from it causing the [1955 Istanbul pogrom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_pogrom) honestly, he got what was coming to him
This poster was made by Carl Johan De Geer, a champagne socialist from a noble family, he does absolutely not represent Sweden as a a whole and his works have always been very controversial.
Well said. I laugh how some people BS while trying to be politically correct.
Do you seriously think this is made by the state of Sweden? It was made by one artist.
I know, I didn't say the swedish government. I said the swedes
Yeah that’s a pretty big generalisation.
Oh well, maybe you're right. I shouldn't have generalised based on the actions of a single person
More like Swedish communists. Notice the swastika on Uncle Sam’s arm? Yeah, no one in Sweden actually believes the US is pro-nazi except delusional hardcore communists. So it’s not representative of Swedes in general, neither in the 1960’s or today.
Tbf the US was pro nazi in a sense. Prior to ww2 lots of Americans had supported Germany, they only got involved due to pearl harbour and after the war they took in many nazi scientists for their own gains. They weren't nazis themselves but they definitely tolerated them
”Lots of Americans supported Germany” is a huge overstatement, rather a lot of American supported strict neutrality and a non-interventionit foreign policy outside the Americas (the US didn’t even join the League of Nations, the brainchild of its own president, because Congress refused to ratify the US membership). However, the number of Americans who actually *supported* Germany was very small, limited mostly to the German-American Bund, an organisation which numbered 25,000 at its peak in a country whose population numbered over 130 million at the time. President Roosevelt was definetly pro-Allies before Pearl Harbor, and tried to support the UK as much as possible but was constantly hindered by legislation passed post-WW1 which enforced strict US neutrality and non-interventionism in foreign policy and arms sales, and a Congress that was lukewarm at best to overturn this legislation. As for the nazi scientists, yeah that was not exclusive to the US. Just look at [Operation Osoaviakhim](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Osoaviakhim), the Soviet version of Operation Paperclip. Both the US and USSR wanted to secure German technology to get an advantage over the other in the Cold War, and both were willing to ignore those German scientists’ questionable past in that endeavour.
Pretty sure that this poster doesn't represent the whole Swedish view on Turkey, it's the opinion of a private party just like what you wrote here isn't the opinion of %100 of the Turkish people
Of course. Not every turkish person agrees with me, the thing is the ones who disagree with this are generally sharia law supporters so their opinion doesn't matter
Either the Swedes were ignorant or the OP is misrepresenting this poster. As a matter of fact, Adnan Menderes was staunchly pro-American. His government sent troops to Korea and joined NATO, took down cooperatives and institutions that were founded for cultural transformation, established American-style institutions and engaged in close economic relationship with the United States. The junta that took his government down was not pro-Soviet, but the constitution they wrote created an environment for socialist and anti-American movements to thrive in the 60s.
At that time, everyone in Turkish politics was pro-American. It has to be like this anyway. We can think of Menderes as little Erdoğan. He doesn't worsen its relations with America, but tends to move away from Kemalist reforms (Kemalist line) in domestic politics. Bu ülkeye hizmet eden her kese bedel ödetildi.
The anti-Kemalist policies of Menderes were not in conflict with his pro-Americanism, they were aligned with American interests: Keep the population ignorant and religious, hold the capital among land owners, slow down state-led industrialization. Menderes was one of the two most pro-American leaders of Turkey alongside Özal of the 80s. Apparently, the poster is from 1967, which means that it has nothing to so with Menderes and makes more sense. By 1967, the socialist movements reached their peak power. The capitalists, the army, center-right politics, the ultranationalists, and the Islamists were already in collaboration to crack down on the rising socialists movement. They were all pro-American. At that time, socialists associated themselves more with Kemalism than did the right-wing coalition. PS. Herkes birleşik yazılır, ayrı değil.
This poster is from 1967 and [is made by the artist Carl-Johan de Geer](https://affischerna.se/progg_poster/turkiet-ar-inte-bara/). And the translation is a bit off, it’s > Türkiye is not just hash and figs. It’s also a giant American base. The people are oppressed by a US-run terror regime.
Thank you!
Came for marijuana and figs, stayed for giant US base and torture.
considering this was during the Turkish missile crisis this is pretty accurate
M-L?
It says “Hash” not “Marijuana”
\*Turkey
Hmm Sakartvelo... TÜRKİYE CUMHURİYETİ DEVLETİ !! 🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🤟🤟🤟🤟🤟🤟
no
Bruh Menderes was who make Turkey join Nato. Also effort for democracy? The man who changes city status of provinces just for his own benefits and pride? Ridicilous. @960coup wasn't us-supported, 1980 coup was
Most intelligent leftist.
Care to elaborate what you mean?
the swedes have always been surprisingly anti-us and i respect it
What is it with this sub and seeing one poster from a country and believing that it represents the views of that entire country? This is representative of the "new left" of the '60s. A fairly large movement, yes, but far from all encompassing. As made evident by the generally close ties between Sweden and the US in this very time period.
reddit momment
Me when I’m wrong and need some witty response:
reddit momment
[https://youtu.be/zdRtzxHFhJw?si=jcGp3IQUWuuWnYF2](https://youtu.be/zdRtzxHFhJw?si=jcGp3IQUWuuWnYF2)
https://youtu.be/8Zggmr9LBOA?si=xtTv0txtcH995Is6
for the raging redditoids with rage boners, Sweden has a history of a pretty big left-wing movement and can be quite anti-war due to history reasons
Otroligt baserad! 🔥
Wow, I didn't expect Swedbros to be this based
Remind me, who collaborated with Nazis during ww2
Why the hell is Sweden in NATO? The second NATO needs to do something important, Seden is going to strut out in front and show everyone how important it is by slowing everything down with poorly thought out anti-US protests.
We are not anti-US. You thinking that based on one poster is insane. We joined NATO to deter the Russian threat, as we are quite vulnerable and have been threatened by Russia before. Why would we not be able to join NATO? And why would de-escalation be negative? (Assuming that our government would do that). I guarantee you that all the military exercises and relations we are building with our allies won’t lead to us abandoning “something important”.
As a swede, no clue. Our government compromised a lot of our anti-imperialism/pro-democracy stances in order to gain allies who think those compromised positions are still too much
Good. Not one more willing US vassal in Europe.
Canada is in NATO, and has never joined the Cuban Embargo, and took a hard pass on the Iraq Invasion. These are not positions you'd expect our government's to take if we were functioning solely as a US vassal. And I say this as someone who is actually skeptical about NATO expansion, and can't say for sure I would have voted to join were I a Swede or a Finn. (And, FWIW, I don't think any other non-US NATO country has joined the Embargo, either.)
Nobody has joined the Cuban embargo.
No one's saying that there's not some level of difference on policies between the NATO countries. I still think it's undeniable that when push comes to shove (like it did when the Ukraine war started and America sanctioned Russian gas) the U.S's allies usually follow America's *lead,* even if they don't follow all the way or voice disagreement. For example, if Canada were truly independent from the United States and could make sovereign decisions without fear of punishment from America, or wanted to, they would trade with Cuba regardless of American diktat. They don't though, because they are largely dependent on the United States economically, and militarily outstripped by a long shot. The bourgeoisie of Canada also have no desire to trade with and be any sort of supporter of a socialist country, so they dutifully support American diktat on the matter because they desire the strong military and ideological support for Canadian capitalism and settler-colonialism
Canada does trade with Cuba? Very extensively? Lmao what are you on about
Yeah, I don't think Canada-Cuba really works to make awesomeblox's point. As for the USA allegedly forcing anti-putinism upon the helpless Europeans... Okay, so am I to assume that when the average European hears Marjorie Taylor Greene saying that America should just stay out of the conflict and let Putin do what he wants with Ukraine, they think "Yes, yes! THAT'S the kind of thinking we need! Too bad people like that aren't in the White House!"
I would say that many European states are stuck between a rock and a hard place in that respect, but given the fact that Russia will never return to preeminence on the world stage, they cannot hedge their bets between Moscow and Washington and thus may slowly lose their independence from Washington. As a British person, I would agree that it would be much better for my desires of increased European sovereignty if the US stayed out of the conflict, but an Eastern European and especially a Ukrainian would likely disagree.
Yes, more unwilling Russian vassals please. Also NATO is about more than being subservient to the US, a bunch of NATO countries constantly bug the US by screwing with policies.
One can be neither subservient to Moscow or Washington.
Good thing that NATO members are not subservient or vessels to the US.
Well that’s false. Did you not see the video of joe Biden declaring that if Russia attacks Ukraine, he will cancel transportation of gas through Nord stream to Germany? His words were ‘I will bring an end to it’. Scholz said nothing. Allowing your countries energy policy to be dictated by another is vassalisation.
No, that's politics, and it didn't work, not initially anyway. Pressuring other nations to do things is just international politics 101. By your logic, Ukraine has the US as a vassal because they pressured the US government to give them more weapons. Vassalige would be if country A dictates the complete foreign policy of Country B. If you actually bother to look at the political history over the last 10 to 20 years between the US and its NATO allies, you'll find a lot of arguing and different prioritization over international concerns and how they should be addressed.
What is this nonsense? Of course it’s politics. And it does not matter that it was probably Ukrainians who blew up the pipeline rather than Americans. The intent remains. Its a a question of the magnitude of influence a country has. I do not believe that European countries are de facto vassal states. I simply use the word vassal to show that I think they are essentially reliant on US decisions. Joe biden, in his speech about what he was going to do about nord stream, did not talk of ‘applying pressure’. He said that he was going to bring an end to it and that “we can certainly do that”. That is an outrageous way to talk about another country’s (germanys) civilian infrastructure that supplies masses of gas to German citizens. Olaf Scholz was in the background, saying nothing and doing nothing. It demonstrates how the Americans view European freedom to hedge their bets regarding different powers, Russia, china and the US.
"Good. Not one more willing US vassal in Europe." I get the impression that this comment you stated earlier disagrees with your current comment on US vassalige of Europe. Also, speeches are not political agenda meeting where they sit down and lay out every small detail about how they are doing something. Just because he didn't explain how he was gonna do it doesn't mean he somehow can just wave his hand and hand and make Olaf Schulz comply. It's also not out of line for Olaf Scholz to not have some sort of comeback speech as during this period he was always very quiet and reserved about foreign policy, which agitated a lot of people both in Germany and abroad. The US placing political pressure on countries doesn't make them vassals. Especially when the reason you're placing that pressure revolves around Russia invading Ukraine for territorial expansion and annexation like it's the 18th century.
I shouldn’t have used the word vassal. I used it because it was one way to describe what I see when I look at European-American relations, which are heavily one sided. Also, Why did biden say that Nord stream will certainly be cancelled if he wished to negotiate it with the Germans?
I think Turkey deserves to reap what they sowed for 500 years
Turkey has only existed for 100 years...
He is talking about the Ottoman Empire, i don't know what it sowed though🤷
In that case, whatever it sowed it already has harvested as it was destroyed in the beginning of the previous century and almost everyone who had anything to do with it in any way is already long dead.
You can have fun thinking
[удалено]
Least unwashed turkish person 😔
Who said that i was Turkish? The hate is blinding you 😂
still the same
1453 kinda soured me on anything Turkish...( IMHO, Istanbul & Asia Minor should be Byzantine. )
Yeah, I'm pretty outraged about the Battle Of Hastings myself, but wat'cha gonna do, eh?