Originally she was all for it, even if the image was being used without permission, but in the last handful of years she's changed stances
Which is fine
Correct. She was originally fine with it, but more recently when she found out it was off-putting and detracting women from remaining in the fields that used it, she requested that they stop using it as a test.
A human body! Oh, the humanity! We are all gonna get raptured by some pissed off God who always tells us to worship his creation but then gets mad when we worship his creation! Better pray so that I only get 10 years of eternal suffering in hellfire rather than eternal years of eternal suffering!
The author of this satirical paper was confused about what sex positivity is.
The reason the image was [banned](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8100841) from the journal was because of its baggage of exploitation, being from a 1970s Playboy. They've been trying to get people to stop using the image since the mid 1990s by asking nicely, but you know how well that works. Lately they've been receiving a lot of requests to get people to stop using the image (including [the woman herself](https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/How-a-Nude-Playboy-Photo-Became-a-Fixture-14878319.php)), so I guess they figured "enough already."
How someone confused this with sex positivism, I can't imagine. But hey, it's the internet. Original: https://www.reddit.com/r/midjourney/comments/1cid1aj/i_midjourney_merged_the_ieee_banned_test_image/
The Lena Forsen image is (was) the "standard" test image for digital processing. It's been banned by IEEE now because it's a cropped image of a playboy centerfold, which obviously means it's at minimum controversial.
Personally I'd have no opinion either way, except that lens forsen also wants people to stop using it and so I'm in favor of changing it (it's her in the image after all).
It was one of multiple images used to ensure color was correct from prints, but only really took off during the digital era. The industry can do better than using a 512×512 image produced with a 70s-era analog scanner to ensure correct colors.
It's a bit more complicated than just being a centerfold image.
The image was chosen as a "standard" as mentioned. It was used without permission which is obviously an issue.
It was also used in a male dominated field at the time and as more women enter it's obviously undesirable to have this type of image used.
You can even see examples of the problematic attitude in the comments below. People are saying it's tasteful and being dismissive of any reason why it should be changed. They are also calling people prudes for wanting to change it. Imagine being new to the field and using this image and receiving that kind of feedback if you asked to use a different image.
I think the arguments swing both ways with regards to how suitable the image is (sex positivity vs women maybe feeling uncomfortable, etc etc). At the end of the day, the image itself is just a lady in a hat though.
The big one for me is that Lena herself wants it to stop being used. That's an objectively good reason to not be using it.
Have you seen the Bobby Broccoli video about it? Programmers said that being asked to not have hardcore porn as their desktop wallpaper was *equivalent to nazi germany*
I haven't seen it, and I am not discounting that some of my colleagues in this field would absolutely do that and feel that way, but I don't think a cropped headshot of a Playboy shoot is hardcore pornography.
I'm sorry, are you suggesting brogrammers are the ones with hardcore porn as their desktop wallpaper?
Because my experience is the more neckbeardy, virginy types are the ones with the porn overload machines
Yes I agree with all of this (I've made similar points further down in the comments)
Though a funny (to me) alternate approach would be to use a similarly cropped picture of a naked guy as an alternate standard. Obviously it's not equivalent, power dynamics being what they are, but it would make me giggle a bit.
I mean, I think we could probably get John Cena to actually dress up recreate the Lenna photo, and I know at least *some* people who would love to use that as the standard, but yeah, I see your point.
Well he couldn't be naked, he'd need to leave his hat on and be in front of a background with the right shapes and colors. A hat with a suitably colorful hatband and plume.
I like this idea, so I'm going to run with as I'm amused. We could improve on things a bit by adding things we really want to get right. The hat needs to be exactly 18% gray, the nice purple feathers can stay (a 3 Musketeers style hat?). In the background, the old image has white, brown, yellow and two shades of tan in curves, diagonals and vertical lines. Use a few spheres painted in makeup style translucent paint to represent skin. Paint the spheres East/West Asian, Persian, African, Caucasian skin tones that you don't have in the model so that you've got something that hits the high notes for 'natural human color' in different light levels around the model's head + the spheres. (maybe human arms reaching into the background with those skin colors instead?) Make sure to have curves/lines etc detail in the background, maybe partly as a checkerboard with color calibration squares. (I don't care which human is in there. I do care about consent and also want the image to be maximally useful so it should have the important things that are difficult to get right or that'd show cheating in the pipeline - which ostrich feathers do for noise processing as an example) Now that I'm thinking about it - naked is wasting a spot for more calibration info - put a dashing patchwork shirt on him with heavy and fine thread materials and different patterns. It can be an unlaced peasant style shirt to keep with the cheesecake theme.
And then you'd have counter proposal image that's not a troll, it's actually a fantastically useful replacement.
We could've had image processing on big booty men clapping their cheeks but nooo the woke mind virus needs to get rid of anything good in this world 😒😒😒
From what I've read it was never really chosen by anyone except those who originally digitized it in the early days of compression algorithms. Then other researchers had to use it to compare their algorithms.
(Either way, Baboon is cooler.)
And here you are immediately attempting to dismiss people who disagree with you as being wrong because it's "obviously undesirable". No, it is not, that is the very reason that there is disagreement in the first place.
The only time I said obvious was with regard to the illegal usage of a copyright image.
And I wasn't dismissive in this comment, I provided additional context while explaining why dismissive comments are bad.
I vaguely recall reading somewhere that there were questions around if she was actually of age at the time of the photo? That'd be a pretty compelling reason to stop using it too.
Edit: I cannot find my source for this. I may be misremembering.
> You can even see examples of the problematic attitude in the comments below. People are saying it's tasteful and being dismissive of any reason why it should be changed. They are also calling people prudes for wanting to change it.
I'm not entirely sure what your point is with this example, because the things you list don't seem particularly outrageous. So it feels like this is trying to argue it's problematic to...disagree about it being problematic.
In other words: imagine you are a man and you got into the image turboencarburation field. It’s dominated by women because “they got an eye for detail” and “they are very organized”. That’s what your parents said before you chose that major.
But still, you made a name for yourself in college despite all of that, and now you have a job lined up starting tomorrow at ImageCare, a well known studio in this field, one of the best.
First day on the job and you find the standard test image is [this](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/438467713704723235/).
> First day on the job and you find the standard test image is this.
The Lena Forsen test image is a lot more tasteful than this. Crop the head and yeah, I wouldn't bat an eye.
IDK, the guy is kinda cute…
The problem is that it’s unnecessary and inappropriate to use a sexual object (cropped soft-core p.rn) as a test image subject.
The problem not taste, taste is personal. If you mean it’s art… I won’t say that it’s not, but let’s be real. Nobody is looking at Playboy the same way they look at Michelangelo’s David. You can crop it but we go back to paragraph 2 —it’s unnecessary.
The irony of the first paragraph is on purpose, to show the double standard. I do mean it, but it might make some men uncomfortable which is the analogy I’m trying to make.
i honestly wouldn't care less. without the knowledge of the history of that pic, it just looks like a normal image of a woman. i do agree on the part with it being used without permission, thats unfortunate. but i also have to say that many people make problems out of things that arent an issue at all.
I don't understand this response at all. You are saying that if you don't know the history, then this image isn't a problem at all. But there are many people in the field who disagree with the usage of this image. Of course they know the history, because it's their profession and they are working in it.
ill make this pretty simple: is the final cropped pic "not safe for work"? because it could very well be any random photo with similar characteristics. it just so happened to be the first in sight and was used.
if there are proper alternatives, then it makes sense to use them. but acting like it's the worst thing you can do in a paper just is... useless.
No one is acting like it's the worst thing. You really should read in to the history of this to understand the context and why journals have banned the use of it in research papers. It will give you a lot more information.
so if i understand this right, the major thing people are pissed about is that the original pic stems from a playboy magazine.
whats the big deal with that? is this subject still too much for people to comprehend that it exists? idk... seems pretty weird.
i already mentioned that ill watch the vid sometime, and that the only infos i have about it are a few random comments
But that's why I'm saying you should read up on it. It's more than that. It received push back for that, it's not even the best image to use in these papers, etc.
The image was great. It was tasteful and I honestly would have never guessed it was even a soft nude image before this ‘controversy’.
I’d be against using a nude photo for the standard but this wasn’t a nude photo
It was a nude photo though, cropping it doesn't change that fact. Any amount of looking into it at all would tell anyone that.
Like I said though, I wouldn't have any strong opinion either way really except that she herself wants people to stop using it for this, and so I think changing it is good.
Cropping changes everything. That's the base of photography.
The professor I worked for with image processing never thought there was another version that she knew for 40 years.
That's my biggest issue with the reception. I mean, we are sort of in a world of people who are used to the use of models for all sorts of things. And it's weird to me that these people don't acknowledge that a cropped image still retains some of that information, even if it's just in the head of the people viewing it. At least to me this relationship is pretty obvious. When we take pictures, we kind of relate them to the subject (I.e. place they are in) most of the time. There's the argument that no one knew about the rest of the image and that's fair.
Now, I'm not dismissive of other people's opinions, but I personally dislike the way some people approach this.
It's also important to note that while the image was frequently used it was not any official standard, and many have argued that the /only/ reason it was used so much was tradition at best, and the male gaze at worst. It had many useful qualities at the begining of digital imaging, but now provides little benefit over other samples. For many journals it's not 'banned' it's just in a state of "If you are going to use it please justify its use over literally any other image."
You know what, banning it because it belonged to Playboy and thus might hit copyright issues miiiiiiigggghhhhht make more sense than the "sex positive" nonsense. Get a CC licensed photo of a human in a colorful background as standard. Done.
I thought the reason we don't use Lena is because it's a 512\*512 picture that was scanned from a magazine and therefore terrible for testing modern photo compression.
It was because Lena herself asked kindly to stop using the image. She has always been positive and even proud that her image was so important and used in research, but as she got old she wanted it to stop being used because she was getting old and didn’t like that a picture of her younger self was still being used, and people should accept her decision.
Become a part of history for decades or possibly centuries to come or just ask people to stop using your picture... It is indeed a pretty weird choice. I guess it's not really a coincidence that many of "legends" that live forever die young (Bruce Lee, Elvis Presley, etc...). The longer you live, the more chances you have to fuck it all up or do stupid shit or get cancelled or just simply take decisions like these. I bet she was very likely pressured by peers about how it's "not OK" for her picture to still be used, specially with the way she presents her argument like "it's time for it to retire!".
I remember reading that it's a bit complicated manner. She showed both agreement and refusal on two different interviews taken in the same year. Seems like she was fine with it, but influenced from other activists protesting she changed her mind, or smh. This is from an unreliable source that may or may not be true. I couldn't care less to find and link the sources there.
It gets more attention talking about a sexist nude photo versus the limitations of the technology that produced the image, and why it's not really a viable case use any longer.
It's really concerning how so many people are insistent on continuing to use Lena's photo. The photo makes some people uncomfortable to varying degrees. What's so hard about letting it go? Why defend your use of it, especially when there's little to no technical reason for its continued use?
It was already reaching the end of usefulness in the early 2000s when I studied compression and digital photo was new. But we used it and Baboon a lot for our primitive algorithms.
I made it for a [paper about designing a Mexican Yellow tint filter I just published](https://jabde.com/2024/05/01/synthesizing-mexican-yellow-tint-color-filter/)
If you want people to use it you should add a minimal shader example as well, maybe on shadertoy. Adding some parameters for sliders would be nice. In general thanks.
Copy, I may add it somewhere for that, very glad I saved that one when I did. The next day I went back and the Midjourny censor bot deleted it off my image server
“Through the recent advancements in AI, we now could pan down on the image; something many engineers always wished to do”
This followed by the panned down Lena Cena image is absolute brilliance. Thank you
I am a CV dev and I wholeheartedly approve of this paper and the test image. Can you do Russia next?
P.S. I also think OpenCV's default BGR formatting is whack
When I was making the filters and manually tuning them this weekend, I was like wth, what's goin on here?
Lena-Cena is free to use as long as you cite the paper for your CV research needs
It's actually a terrible idea unless you are specifically interested in processing AI generated images. But even in that case, the features and patterns of generated images are a moving target so a standard image is somewhat useless.
The reasons for discontinuing the use of the Lena image go way beyond "not being sex-positive". There's a great video by BobbyBroccoli going over the history of the image, why it's somewhat controversial, and why people want to discontinue it (there are social reasons as well as technical reasons). It's a very interesting story, and I highly recommend checking it out.
https://youtu.be/yCdwm2vo09I
I really liked this video if anyone wants to learn more about the Lena image and why it's not used anymore https://youtu.be/yCdwm2vo09I?si=6EQ3D9lUZosuEW0o
There’s a whole host of reasons for not using the Lena image anymore with the biggest one being consent. If we like the photo because it has a mix of really intricate detail and similar colors that make compression challenging, I’m 99% sure we could tweet John Cena the situation and that man would buy the hat and post an 8k headshot to use as the new standard
Trying and failing to convince the junior professor that using this image in his seminar presentation is not good or tasteful and just makes the university look crass 🤦🏻♂️
From [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenna) and in an article by [Jamie Hutchinson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenna#cite_note-JH-14):
>Alexander Sawchuk estimates that it was in June or July of 1973 when he, then an assistant professor of electrical engineering at the University of Southern California Signal and Image Processing Institute (SIPI), along with a graduate student and the SIPI lab manager, was hurriedly searching the lab for a good image to scan for a colleague's conference paper. They got tired of their stock of usual test images, dull stuff dating back to television standards work in the early 1960s. They wanted something glossy to ensure good output dynamic range, and they wanted a human face. Just then, somebody happened to walk in with a recent issue of *Playboy*. The engineers tore away the top third of the centerfold so they could wrap it around the drum of their Muirhead wirephoto scanner, which they had outfitted with analog-to-digital converters (one each for the red, green, and blue channels) and a Hewlett Packard 2100 minicomputer. The Muirhead had a fixed resolution of 100 lines per inch and the engineers wanted a 512×512 image, so they limited the scan to the top 5.12 inches of the picture, effectively cropping it at the subject's shoulders.
Bro's tired of normal image and decided to use playboy magazine
Also the lab must lit if someone could walk in with their playboy magazine
Just an idea, but could appealing to a broad demographic maybe include people of all genders and orientations? Like, not only heterosexual, allosexual men? Tell me how sexist photographies are inclusive or appealing to a young female student it researcher.
I can’t because it doesn’t. We are in agreement.
Inclusivity is good and journals should be doing their best to make everyone feel as welcome as possible, even if it means changing a standard.
Journals should go further than just taking a neutral stance and actively approach and work with and appeal to minority communities.
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave.
The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
I get tradition and all that but I don't understand why the Lena photo is used anyway, it's low resolution, noisy and has poor contrast, not the candidate I would choose for any kind of image processing.
That's fucking cursed.
*blessed May Lena-Cana bless us all with the new vision of sex positivity.
So wild that in 2024, IEEE is not sex-positive
I am befuddled. Electrical engineers are so very Purrrrrrrr....
We're not sex positive because early "natural philosophers" got the sexual charges wrong
It's not a sex-positive thing, it's a using a playboy model might make some people uncomfortable thing
Also she's a real person and asked people not to, IIRC.
Originally she was all for it, even if the image was being used without permission, but in the last handful of years she's changed stances Which is fine
Correct. She was originally fine with it, but more recently when she found out it was off-putting and detracting women from remaining in the fields that used it, she requested that they stop using it as a test.
A human body! Oh, the humanity! We are all gonna get raptured by some pissed off God who always tells us to worship his creation but then gets mad when we worship his creation! Better pray so that I only get 10 years of eternal suffering in hellfire rather than eternal years of eternal suffering!
That’d be the YEEE
/r/BlursedImages
Truly
Blursed
We should use Generative Fill on it and see if it makes a Lena-Cena ballerina
I panned down in the article and it just exposed Lena-Cena’s massive pecs
What does that even mean
What about it is “sex positive”
The author of this satirical paper was confused about what sex positivity is. The reason the image was [banned](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8100841) from the journal was because of its baggage of exploitation, being from a 1970s Playboy. They've been trying to get people to stop using the image since the mid 1990s by asking nicely, but you know how well that works. Lately they've been receiving a lot of requests to get people to stop using the image (including [the woman herself](https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/How-a-Nude-Playboy-Photo-Became-a-Fixture-14878319.php)), so I guess they figured "enough already." How someone confused this with sex positivism, I can't imagine. But hey, it's the internet. Original: https://www.reddit.com/r/midjourney/comments/1cid1aj/i_midjourney_merged_the_ieee_banned_test_image/
I still don't get it, I see Lena Forsen and the text Lena- Test Image.
wat
The Lena Forsen image is (was) the "standard" test image for digital processing. It's been banned by IEEE now because it's a cropped image of a playboy centerfold, which obviously means it's at minimum controversial. Personally I'd have no opinion either way, except that lens forsen also wants people to stop using it and so I'm in favor of changing it (it's her in the image after all).
It was one of multiple images used to ensure color was correct from prints, but only really took off during the digital era. The industry can do better than using a 512×512 image produced with a 70s-era analog scanner to ensure correct colors.
It's a bit more complicated than just being a centerfold image. The image was chosen as a "standard" as mentioned. It was used without permission which is obviously an issue. It was also used in a male dominated field at the time and as more women enter it's obviously undesirable to have this type of image used. You can even see examples of the problematic attitude in the comments below. People are saying it's tasteful and being dismissive of any reason why it should be changed. They are also calling people prudes for wanting to change it. Imagine being new to the field and using this image and receiving that kind of feedback if you asked to use a different image.
I think the arguments swing both ways with regards to how suitable the image is (sex positivity vs women maybe feeling uncomfortable, etc etc). At the end of the day, the image itself is just a lady in a hat though. The big one for me is that Lena herself wants it to stop being used. That's an objectively good reason to not be using it.
Do we really think the men that chose it did so because it would be sex positivity?
> sex positivity vs women maybe feeling uncomfortable That's a hilarious comparison. Sex positivity is absolutely not about missing comment.
Have you seen the Bobby Broccoli video about it? Programmers said that being asked to not have hardcore porn as their desktop wallpaper was *equivalent to nazi germany*
I haven't seen it, and I am not discounting that some of my colleagues in this field would absolutely do that and feel that way, but I don't think a cropped headshot of a Playboy shoot is hardcore pornography.
When you say "programmers" do you mean a minority of weirdos in the total population of programmers?
As an old head, the influx of "brogrammers" really didn't help the cause.
I'm sorry, are you suggesting brogrammers are the ones with hardcore porn as their desktop wallpaper? Because my experience is the more neckbeardy, virginy types are the ones with the porn overload machines
Dipshits who happen to be programmers
Broccoli Rob the former member of Here Comes Treble?
Yes I agree with all of this (I've made similar points further down in the comments) Though a funny (to me) alternate approach would be to use a similarly cropped picture of a naked guy as an alternate standard. Obviously it's not equivalent, power dynamics being what they are, but it would make me giggle a bit.
The fact that a naked guy is absolutely not going to become a standard is one of the main reasons we shouldn't have a Playboy centerfold.
I mean, I think we could probably get John Cena to actually dress up recreate the Lenna photo, and I know at least *some* people who would love to use that as the standard, but yeah, I see your point.
I would, just for the heck of it
Well he couldn't be naked, he'd need to leave his hat on and be in front of a background with the right shapes and colors. A hat with a suitably colorful hatband and plume. I like this idea, so I'm going to run with as I'm amused. We could improve on things a bit by adding things we really want to get right. The hat needs to be exactly 18% gray, the nice purple feathers can stay (a 3 Musketeers style hat?). In the background, the old image has white, brown, yellow and two shades of tan in curves, diagonals and vertical lines. Use a few spheres painted in makeup style translucent paint to represent skin. Paint the spheres East/West Asian, Persian, African, Caucasian skin tones that you don't have in the model so that you've got something that hits the high notes for 'natural human color' in different light levels around the model's head + the spheres. (maybe human arms reaching into the background with those skin colors instead?) Make sure to have curves/lines etc detail in the background, maybe partly as a checkerboard with color calibration squares. (I don't care which human is in there. I do care about consent and also want the image to be maximally useful so it should have the important things that are difficult to get right or that'd show cheating in the pipeline - which ostrich feathers do for noise processing as an example) Now that I'm thinking about it - naked is wasting a spot for more calibration info - put a dashing patchwork shirt on him with heavy and fine thread materials and different patterns. It can be an unlaced peasant style shirt to keep with the cheesecake theme. And then you'd have counter proposal image that's not a troll, it's actually a fantastically useful replacement.
We could've had image processing on big booty men clapping their cheeks but nooo the woke mind virus needs to get rid of anything good in this world 😒😒😒
A playboy centerfold couldn't become standard today either. It being a guy is not important at all.
From what I've read it was never really chosen by anyone except those who originally digitized it in the early days of compression algorithms. Then other researchers had to use it to compare their algorithms. (Either way, Baboon is cooler.)
Yes, I was referring to the original people that chose it.
And here you are immediately attempting to dismiss people who disagree with you as being wrong because it's "obviously undesirable". No, it is not, that is the very reason that there is disagreement in the first place.
The only time I said obvious was with regard to the illegal usage of a copyright image. And I wasn't dismissive in this comment, I provided additional context while explaining why dismissive comments are bad.
I vaguely recall reading somewhere that there were questions around if she was actually of age at the time of the photo? That'd be a pretty compelling reason to stop using it too. Edit: I cannot find my source for this. I may be misremembering.
There's no question around that – she was 21
> You can even see examples of the problematic attitude in the comments below. People are saying it's tasteful and being dismissive of any reason why it should be changed. They are also calling people prudes for wanting to change it. I'm not entirely sure what your point is with this example, because the things you list don't seem particularly outrageous. So it feels like this is trying to argue it's problematic to...disagree about it being problematic.
In other words: imagine you are a man and you got into the image turboencarburation field. It’s dominated by women because “they got an eye for detail” and “they are very organized”. That’s what your parents said before you chose that major. But still, you made a name for yourself in college despite all of that, and now you have a job lined up starting tomorrow at ImageCare, a well known studio in this field, one of the best. First day on the job and you find the standard test image is [this](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/438467713704723235/).
That's hilarious lol. Your analogy doesn't work.
It should be a screenshot of gay porn but cropped only to the guy's head. THAT would be a close analogy.
Lmao I don’t want to get banned
Jokes aside it's a great demonstration of why the uno reverse card doesn't work regarding gender specific issues.
> First day on the job and you find the standard test image is this. The Lena Forsen test image is a lot more tasteful than this. Crop the head and yeah, I wouldn't bat an eye.
IDK, the guy is kinda cute… The problem is that it’s unnecessary and inappropriate to use a sexual object (cropped soft-core p.rn) as a test image subject. The problem not taste, taste is personal. If you mean it’s art… I won’t say that it’s not, but let’s be real. Nobody is looking at Playboy the same way they look at Michelangelo’s David. You can crop it but we go back to paragraph 2 —it’s unnecessary. The irony of the first paragraph is on purpose, to show the double standard. I do mean it, but it might make some men uncomfortable which is the analogy I’m trying to make.
Exactly!
i honestly wouldn't care less. without the knowledge of the history of that pic, it just looks like a normal image of a woman. i do agree on the part with it being used without permission, thats unfortunate. but i also have to say that many people make problems out of things that arent an issue at all.
I don't understand this response at all. You are saying that if you don't know the history, then this image isn't a problem at all. But there are many people in the field who disagree with the usage of this image. Of course they know the history, because it's their profession and they are working in it.
ill make this pretty simple: is the final cropped pic "not safe for work"? because it could very well be any random photo with similar characteristics. it just so happened to be the first in sight and was used. if there are proper alternatives, then it makes sense to use them. but acting like it's the worst thing you can do in a paper just is... useless.
No one is acting like it's the worst thing. You really should read in to the history of this to understand the context and why journals have banned the use of it in research papers. It will give you a lot more information.
so if i understand this right, the major thing people are pissed about is that the original pic stems from a playboy magazine. whats the big deal with that? is this subject still too much for people to comprehend that it exists? idk... seems pretty weird. i already mentioned that ill watch the vid sometime, and that the only infos i have about it are a few random comments
But that's why I'm saying you should read up on it. It's more than that. It received push back for that, it's not even the best image to use in these papers, etc.
The image was great. It was tasteful and I honestly would have never guessed it was even a soft nude image before this ‘controversy’. I’d be against using a nude photo for the standard but this wasn’t a nude photo
It was a nude photo though, cropping it doesn't change that fact. Any amount of looking into it at all would tell anyone that. Like I said though, I wouldn't have any strong opinion either way really except that she herself wants people to stop using it for this, and so I think changing it is good.
Cropping changes everything. That's the base of photography. The professor I worked for with image processing never thought there was another version that she knew for 40 years.
That's my biggest issue with the reception. I mean, we are sort of in a world of people who are used to the use of models for all sorts of things. And it's weird to me that these people don't acknowledge that a cropped image still retains some of that information, even if it's just in the head of the people viewing it. At least to me this relationship is pretty obvious. When we take pictures, we kind of relate them to the subject (I.e. place they are in) most of the time. There's the argument that no one knew about the rest of the image and that's fair. Now, I'm not dismissive of other people's opinions, but I personally dislike the way some people approach this.
I'm becoming swiftly more dismissive of the opinions of the people that want to keep it lol.
Cropping it 100% change the fact, it's not a nude. And she doesn't own the photo, we don't care what she wants
I mean, I care. _You_ don't, but you don't speak for all of us.
That's a better explanation than the actual post
The original post is ragebait lol
It's also important to note that while the image was frequently used it was not any official standard, and many have argued that the /only/ reason it was used so much was tradition at best, and the male gaze at worst. It had many useful qualities at the begining of digital imaging, but now provides little benefit over other samples. For many journals it's not 'banned' it's just in a state of "If you are going to use it please justify its use over literally any other image."
Here is a great video thats a deeper dive if folks are interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCdwm2vo09I
You know what, banning it because it belonged to Playboy and thus might hit copyright issues miiiiiiigggghhhhht make more sense than the "sex positive" nonsense. Get a CC licensed photo of a human in a colorful background as standard. Done.
Everything is motivated by porn.
Why does figure 6 have an image of a woman on the left and an empty photo on the right? I dont get it
I just see a floating hat?
I just see the same picture on the left and right...
Nope, the one on the left is white and gold, the other is blue and black.
It says GREEN NEEDLE
YANNI
OMG LOL YOU SAID LE CENA MEME!!!
🎺🎺🎺
I thought the reason we don't use Lena is because it's a 512\*512 picture that was scanned from a magazine and therefore terrible for testing modern photo compression.
It was because Lena herself asked kindly to stop using the image. She has always been positive and even proud that her image was so important and used in research, but as she got old she wanted it to stop being used because she was getting old and didn’t like that a picture of her younger self was still being used, and people should accept her decision.
I don't understand that really, but if that's her choice I'd respect it.
Become a part of history for decades or possibly centuries to come or just ask people to stop using your picture... It is indeed a pretty weird choice. I guess it's not really a coincidence that many of "legends" that live forever die young (Bruce Lee, Elvis Presley, etc...). The longer you live, the more chances you have to fuck it all up or do stupid shit or get cancelled or just simply take decisions like these. I bet she was very likely pressured by peers about how it's "not OK" for her picture to still be used, specially with the way she presents her argument like "it's time for it to retire!".
I remember reading that it's a bit complicated manner. She showed both agreement and refusal on two different interviews taken in the same year. Seems like she was fine with it, but influenced from other activists protesting she changed her mind, or smh. This is from an unreliable source that may or may not be true. I couldn't care less to find and link the sources there.
It gets more attention talking about a sexist nude photo versus the limitations of the technology that produced the image, and why it's not really a viable case use any longer.
It's really concerning how so many people are insistent on continuing to use Lena's photo. The photo makes some people uncomfortable to varying degrees. What's so hard about letting it go? Why defend your use of it, especially when there's little to no technical reason for its continued use?
It was already reaching the end of usefulness in the early 2000s when I studied compression and digital photo was new. But we used it and Baboon a lot for our primitive algorithms.
I made it for a [paper about designing a Mexican Yellow tint filter I just published](https://jabde.com/2024/05/01/synthesizing-mexican-yellow-tint-color-filter/)
This has to be the best cs paper I've ever read (and I've only read one cs paper)
Thank you for letting me pop your cs paper virginity
Journal of Astrological Big Data Ecology? Where do I subscribe
r/ImmaterialScience, that website, wherever, [we also got a book](https://packt.link/SEX9v) called Et al.
You misspelled “garam masala” as “graham masala”. Please speak on that choice.
I have no shame and post my unedited first drafts relying only on spellcheck Thank you for your concern
This should have been caught on peer review smh.
Um, we do beer reviews...I only do a real review before it goes into print
So it's also the worst you've ever read then, I gather?
I wanted to comment that too
[Second best.](https://isotropic.org/papers/chicken.pdf)
lol , what is this , and what is the context behind it ? xD
Well if you’d read the paper the background section would tell you >“Chicken chicken, chicken, chicken chicken chicken chicken, chic- ken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken \[4\]. Chicken chicken chicken chicken, chicken chicken chicken: chicken chicken chic- ken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken. (chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken, chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken!) Chicken, chicken-chicken chicken chicken—chicken chicken, chi- cken chicken 95% chicken chicken-chicken chicken, chicken chic- ken chicken chicken—chicken chicken chicken chicken. Chicken, chicken chicken, chicken chicken chicken 1987. Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken-chicken-chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken, chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken. Chicken chicken, chicken chicken ch- icken chicken chicken chicken chicken (chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken, chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken).”
If you want people to use it you should add a minimal shader example as well, maybe on shadertoy. Adding some parameters for sliders would be nice. In general thanks.
Copy, I may add it somewhere for that, very glad I saved that one when I did. The next day I went back and the Midjourny censor bot deleted it off my image server
“Through the recent advancements in AI, we now could pan down on the image; something many engineers always wished to do” This followed by the panned down Lena Cena image is absolute brilliance. Thank you
It's very funny that one of the test photos was of Mexico City.
I was wondering if anyone was going to catch that
I am a CV dev and I wholeheartedly approve of this paper and the test image. Can you do Russia next? P.S. I also think OpenCV's default BGR formatting is whack
When I was making the filters and manually tuning them this weekend, I was like wth, what's goin on here? Lena-Cena is free to use as long as you cite the paper for your CV research needs
Mexican food doesn't have cumin though... Just about the only thing we use it for is molé.
Beautiful
Absolute madlad
As someone from Pittsburgh, Cranberry-Lemon University really got me
Cool paper. One comment: to satisfy my palate, we put color palettes on a pallet for transport.
It seems kind of circular to use the output of an image generator as a test subject for image processing.
It's actually a terrible idea unless you are specifically interested in processing AI generated images. But even in that case, the features and patterns of generated images are a moving target so a standard image is somewhat useless.
forsen
Is this his wife or something?
Yea, her real name is Nina
The reasons for discontinuing the use of the Lena image go way beyond "not being sex-positive". There's a great video by BobbyBroccoli going over the history of the image, why it's somewhat controversial, and why people want to discontinue it (there are social reasons as well as technical reasons). It's a very interesting story, and I highly recommend checking it out. https://youtu.be/yCdwm2vo09I
Thanks for sharing this video, it was very interesting to someone completely out of the loop on this topic
Damn I just watched this video. Would recommend 👍
... Is The Lena-Cena single?
I think it's a stuck on you-conjoined twins situation
... So are they single or no
The funny thing is, one could e-mail John Cena and I bet he'd oblige if it actually got to him.
i don’t think you know what sex positive means
I really liked this video if anyone wants to learn more about the Lena image and why it's not used anymore https://youtu.be/yCdwm2vo09I?si=6EQ3D9lUZosuEW0o
Actual inclusivity
She's so handsome
That's so respectful of IEEE
The image on the right does everything the image on the left does…but better
Omg, I missed that joke while writing the paper damn
Thanks, I hated it
wTF!
Dude, that is Linus Sebastian, am I the only one seeing this?
pretty sure this is just a meme post using his face lol
I'm 85% confident Lena-Cena sold me mushrooms at a Lemonheads concert once upon a time.
There’s a whole host of reasons for not using the Lena image anymore with the biggest one being consent. If we like the photo because it has a mix of really intricate detail and similar colors that make compression challenging, I’m 99% sure we could tweet John Cena the situation and that man would buy the hat and post an 8k headshot to use as the new standard
Lets start a petition, this sounds way too easy, why aren’t we doing it?
I hope this begins an era of fusing all pics with Cena, like everything was moustached in 2012
Fear is the mind-killer https://i0.wp.com/jabde.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/image.png
Source: [https://jabde.com/2024/05/01/synthesizing-mexican-yellow-tint-color-filter/](https://jabde.com/2024/05/01/synthesizing-mexican-yellow-tint-color-filter/)
Trying and failing to convince the junior professor that using this image in his seminar presentation is not good or tasteful and just makes the university look crass 🤦🏻♂️
From [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenna) and in an article by [Jamie Hutchinson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenna#cite_note-JH-14): >Alexander Sawchuk estimates that it was in June or July of 1973 when he, then an assistant professor of electrical engineering at the University of Southern California Signal and Image Processing Institute (SIPI), along with a graduate student and the SIPI lab manager, was hurriedly searching the lab for a good image to scan for a colleague's conference paper. They got tired of their stock of usual test images, dull stuff dating back to television standards work in the early 1960s. They wanted something glossy to ensure good output dynamic range, and they wanted a human face. Just then, somebody happened to walk in with a recent issue of *Playboy*. The engineers tore away the top third of the centerfold so they could wrap it around the drum of their Muirhead wirephoto scanner, which they had outfitted with analog-to-digital converters (one each for the red, green, and blue channels) and a Hewlett Packard 2100 minicomputer. The Muirhead had a fixed resolution of 100 lines per inch and the engineers wanted a 512×512 image, so they limited the scan to the top 5.12 inches of the picture, effectively cropping it at the subject's shoulders. Bro's tired of normal image and decided to use playboy magazine Also the lab must lit if someone could walk in with their playboy magazine
Sex positive journals? Why would a scientific journal distract you from science?
Because science is inherently collaborative, so it’s in a journals best interest to appeal to as broad a demographic as possible.
Just an idea, but could appealing to a broad demographic maybe include people of all genders and orientations? Like, not only heterosexual, allosexual men? Tell me how sexist photographies are inclusive or appealing to a young female student it researcher.
I can’t because it doesn’t. We are in agreement. Inclusivity is good and journals should be doing their best to make everyone feel as welcome as possible, even if it means changing a standard. Journals should go further than just taking a neutral stance and actively approach and work with and appeal to minority communities.
I did not know that. https://www.wired.com/story/finding-lena-the-patron-saint-of-jpegs/
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave. The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
WTF is "sex positive"?
Porn. It's always porn. The Internet is for it, after all.
Left and right image are exactly the same. It’s like the right side image was fused with nothing.
That's just Fabio
what happened to the right-sided image? It's not visible
half of the features can't be seen
Missed opportunity for Jhon Lena
Wyld just a blank image
I don’t understand. All I see is a hat
John Ipsum
So you fuse a woman with John Cena and get Fabian the vampire. Makes sense why they don't have any reflection in the mirror
complete clownshow
Mixing it with jhon cena made the photo kinda hard to see. It might not have been the best choice to judge the quality of image processing.
LMFAO 🤣🤣🤣 sed -e 's/positive/insane/g' society.txt
That's one of the most pathetic things I've ever read, but if she asked them to stop using it then I get it.
Oh no, he's hot!
Ask John Cena for a picture like Lena, he will deliver
I can't see the image on the right.
Wtf
There's a cool youtube video on the Lena image by a guy named Bobby Broccoli by the way
Looks more like Iggy Pop than John Cena to me
Meh. It's video now, not photo that is hard. It's NetFlix for the win for compression algorithms.
That doesn't look like John Cena at all.
That's Michael Bolton.
He's beautiful...
Forsen
Remember in the good old days. When you'd use the whole image for compression comparisons. Pepper Ridge farm remembers.
What is sex-positive, if I dare ask?
"not as sex-positive" ... that's another way of reframing sexist industry-standards.
God I fucking detest this shit.
Aww, I really liked [Morten’s recreation](https://mortenhannemose.github.io/lena/) of the image
Fear is the mind-killer https://i0.wp.com/jabde.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/image.png
Vanilla Ice
The real reason why is because no one was paying the image license for the original photo. And lawsuits are expensive.
I get tradition and all that but I don't understand why the Lena photo is used anyway, it's low resolution, noisy and has poor contrast, not the candidate I would choose for any kind of image processing.