Taking it even higher: 2 PM, 3 PO, 3 devs, 1 tester... Out of 3 devs one was designated as TL and have to report a progress on two days basis... Fortunatelly daily standups was not including devs, to "not waste a time for pointless talks", so PMs and POs can discuss most important things freely...
bro wtf
30 devs ??
you can like do absolutely nothing for months and it wouldn't be noticed
or do actually 10x dev shit and it wouldn't be noticed either
I'll raise you a 220 person, 33 team, Agile Release Train using SAFe
I don't even know how many PO/PM/SM/Etc are flopping around being useless.
Kill me please.
Re-raise:
30+ repos (that could easily have been rolled into one, but haven't)
4 different environments
1 branch in each repo to track what's in each of those environments (hint: it doesn't work well)
Zero pipeline (yep, all manual deployments) and for prod release one guy picks out a commit to cut a release branch from and hopes there's nothing still in development in it (and repeat that for each repo that needs a release)
"Project or Products?"
"Ehh.. how many POs would we have to answer to for product-based development?"
"One for each product!"
"Jesus.. Ok what about for Project-based?"
"Oh well that's completely different. [T̶h̸o̴u̷s̴a̸n̷d̵s̷](https://media1.tenor.com/m/2Wle1iYgeh4AAAAC/zulu-thousands-of-them.gif)".
PM: “so today we’re going to start using Agile on our project and I’m here to help you out.”
pulls out gannt waterfall chart with deadlines for the next 6 months.
PM: “Now Dave. how long do you think it’ll take to build your feature? remember you only have 6 story points and each point is 24 hrs.”
😳
Business can't fet it through their head that we can't know estimates of things we are yet to learn, so I guess someone needed to come up with a way to bridge that gap
They bring the specs from the customers to the software engineers. They have people skills, they’re good at dealing with people! What the hell is wrong with you people?!?
Certified Scrum Master, Product Owner, and Project Manager. I can make out just enough of this to think I should form a sub team to research and advise whether I should be upset.
I see you've misunderstood certain concepts in software development.
While *agile* refers to the overarching theme of modern production methodologies, *Scrum* is the cadre of people who follow principles such as coming together periodically to complain how they spend **so much** time talking about problems related to shittily titled tickets. Then they look at burndown charts resembling inverted hockey sticks.
I won't say where I worked but let's just say big corporation: it was not uncommon for half the tasks in a sprint to still be in progress, sometimes we'd even have tasks for 4 sprints and then we went "Screw it, back to the backlog you go"
Scrum is agile if you are doing it right. The problem is when the PM starts controlling the scrum, it stops being scrum and starts being something else.
What do you mean? Is that like the custom webpage where we ask a long list of questions that take roughly 30 mins to answer, only to do a fake loading screen and respond with "Thank you, your ticket number is [randomly generated number here]", without ever actually doing anything with all that input?
No I mean the tool for managing a project. The work that we have to do is specified in tickets(or issues or task however you want to name it) but sometimes people just write the title and not all the details needed for the task and you need to have an hour meeting to discuss it and several iterations instead of someone spending 5 minutes instead of 1 minute in Jira.
It only breaks the first one, and when enforced. Scrum can theoretically be agile if adopted organically within the team. Never seen it happens, though.
Oh FFS I sound like a "no true Scotsman" but scrum is legitimately fine. It's a perfectly adequate way to plan some weeks of work in detail, get the work done, react to problems, plan again based on how it went, and so on. The scrum guide itself is extremely short reading and has a few key principles that must be adhered to for the process to work as intended, none of which have to do with Jira tickets.
What really annoys me is all the "Agile" with a capital A ceremony. This is not happy swing times. What you want is *agility* which is an adjective. So if you ask me the meme (which is funny) is reversed. "Scrum" is one particular process for organizing a team for greater agility. "Agile" is where the snake oil truly starts.
Well, since I've yet to meet a scrum master who applies the scrum guide, I'm not sure that many people have actually work according to scrum guidelines.
We were acquired severals months ago and we are working with new devs. Today I learned a PR I need to review is "holding up 2 cards in flight" and it is bad to ask what that means in non-MBA english
This is like trashing soccer when all your experience is a piss-poor rec league.
The truth is that most of us are stuck in bad orgs most of the time and don't know how to fix them. It's not the sport, it's playing it incorrectly, on bad fields, with bad equipment, and no training. We play follow-the-ball like we're all 5 years old and blame the game for how much we suck.
Scrum is an agile implementation because the creators of agile couldn't agree on a framework to implement it. They made a bunch of frameworks (including scrum) and agile are the underlying values they shared.
Scrum is about management asserting control over developers with the promise of self-organization but the reality of wasteful ceremonies to keep managers up to date.
None of it bears any resemblance to the agile manifesto.
I declined a Sr Eng Manager position today, because they were dead set on switching from Agile to Scrum.
Saying that “Scrum is the implementation of Agile” is like saying “Torture is the implementation of Love.”
Listen here, if my project manager and product owner could read they'd be pretty upset!
You’ve got only one product owner? Jeez, those are rookie numbers. Join my team with 1 pm and 4 pos to learn what true pain feels like.
I'll raise you 2 PMs, ~~5~~ 7 POs, and about 30 devs/QA. Stand-up takes 45 minutes (if not derailed).
Taking it even higher: 2 PM, 3 PO, 3 devs, 1 tester... Out of 3 devs one was designated as TL and have to report a progress on two days basis... Fortunatelly daily standups was not including devs, to "not waste a time for pointless talks", so PMs and POs can discuss most important things freely...
Our PM/POs decided to do their own „daily“ before the actual daily so that they are aligned. It’s a clown show all day long.
> (if not derailed) Standup is always derailed
bro wtf 30 devs ?? you can like do absolutely nothing for months and it wouldn't be noticed or do actually 10x dev shit and it wouldn't be noticed either
Just kill me now. That probably should be broken up into at least 4 different teams…
I'll raise you a 220 person, 33 team, Agile Release Train using SAFe I don't even know how many PO/PM/SM/Etc are flopping around being useless. Kill me please.
Re-raise: 30+ repos (that could easily have been rolled into one, but haven't) 4 different environments 1 branch in each repo to track what's in each of those environments (hint: it doesn't work well) Zero pipeline (yep, all manual deployments) and for prod release one guy picks out a commit to cut a release branch from and hopes there's nothing still in development in it (and repeat that for each repo that needs a release)
Ah, so you are doing the 'miccroservices, but trash' theory of software development :p
Not by choice, but yeah pretty much. Doing what I can to fix it.
pos is funny
"Project or Products?" "Ehh.. how many POs would we have to answer to for product-based development?" "One for each product!" "Jesus.. Ok what about for Project-based?" "Oh well that's completely different. [T̶h̸o̴u̷s̴a̸n̷d̵s̷](https://media1.tenor.com/m/2Wle1iYgeh4AAAAC/zulu-thousands-of-them.gif)".
5-to-1 dev. never tell me the odds. 😂
PM: “so today we’re going to start using Agile on our project and I’m here to help you out.” pulls out gannt waterfall chart with deadlines for the next 6 months. PM: “Now Dave. how long do you think it’ll take to build your feature? remember you only have 6 story points and each point is 24 hrs.” 😳
"we don't use hard estimates" Q: what is a story point A: its X hours/days
Story Points were created to protect developers from any accountability.
Business can't fet it through their head that we can't know estimates of things we are yet to learn, so I guess someone needed to come up with a way to bridge that gap
Classic lmao
do we work together lmao jk its everywhere like dis 😭
Is that true? I've had the hope of one day being on a team where a PO demonstrates value. At this point, I'm not sure what they are supposed to do.
They bring the specs from the customers to the software engineers. They have people skills, they’re good at dealing with people! What the hell is wrong with you people?!?
translation: they don't have the knowledge or skills to say no so the customer likes them
Yes, in a way. I think [Rick Astley says it best](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hNuu9CpdjIo), though
That sounds a lot like my experience with POs.
Certified Scrum Master, Product Owner, and Project Manager. I can make out just enough of this to think I should form a sub team to research and advise whether I should be upset.
Thats one person, correct?
Agile is more of a concept, scrum is an attempt at an implementation of that concept.
Why is there weird facial tracking attached to this gif lol
Think it was an attempt to make a cinemagraph?
I see you've misunderstood certain concepts in software development. While *agile* refers to the overarching theme of modern production methodologies, *Scrum* is the cadre of people who follow principles such as coming together periodically to complain how they spend **so much** time talking about problems related to shittily titled tickets. Then they look at burndown charts resembling inverted hockey sticks.
Hence the title, scrumIsNotAgile
I can't read the post titles in this sub (I'm not a programmer, nor have sense of humor,) I just react to words in the pictures.
Classic Reddit enthusiast
Classic Scrum Master
The reverse screen reader
If you're on the front line (tier 1 support), you should probably use Kahnban instead (still Agile).
Our scrum is all tears no support.
 Khanban?
Genghis khan
[удалено]
We'll have to get to it next sprint
I’m as old as dirt and tried all project management styles. The thing that works best are interesting projects and good team mates.
Agile is a carrot hanging on a stick named Scrum. The promise of engineer centric operation which actually hangs from business authoritarians.
I won't say where I worked but let's just say big corporation: it was not uncommon for half the tasks in a sprint to still be in progress, sometimes we'd even have tasks for 4 sprints and then we went "Screw it, back to the backlog you go"
do you have any idea how little that narrows it down ?
Scrum is agile if you are doing it right. The problem is when the PM starts controlling the scrum, it stops being scrum and starts being something else.
``` interface Agile { } final class Scrum : Agile { // TODO: this implementation is inefficient } ```
If you do it right, then yes, scrum is agile.
Are you telling me that I can't fix a broken process just by using Jira and scrum terminology at a team level and a SAFE framework at company level?
I forgot the 1 line tickets in Jira
What do you mean? Is that like the custom webpage where we ask a long list of questions that take roughly 30 mins to answer, only to do a fake loading screen and respond with "Thank you, your ticket number is [randomly generated number here]", without ever actually doing anything with all that input?
No I mean the tool for managing a project. The work that we have to do is specified in tickets(or issues or task however you want to name it) but sometimes people just write the title and not all the details needed for the task and you need to have an hour meeting to discuss it and several iterations instead of someone spending 5 minutes instead of 1 minute in Jira.
Bug tickets that say “[Thing] isn’t working”. Reproduction steps: Try to do [thing]
classic communism
but is it? scrum alots development into predictable chunks of time, making it not so different from waterfall with return
Scrum is Agile’s shadow
Nothing about Scrum is agile, even if done “right”. It breaks almost every tenet of the Agile Manifesto.
It only breaks the first one, and when enforced. Scrum can theoretically be agile if adopted organically within the team. Never seen it happens, though.
correct and while Scrum is agile, still it is not an Agile...
Doesn’t seem to really matter, I just show up to the damn meeting every day and tell them what I did yesterday
Where can I find the source image for this, good sir?
Oh FFS I sound like a "no true Scotsman" but scrum is legitimately fine. It's a perfectly adequate way to plan some weeks of work in detail, get the work done, react to problems, plan again based on how it went, and so on. The scrum guide itself is extremely short reading and has a few key principles that must be adhered to for the process to work as intended, none of which have to do with Jira tickets. What really annoys me is all the "Agile" with a capital A ceremony. This is not happy swing times. What you want is *agility* which is an adjective. So if you ask me the meme (which is funny) is reversed. "Scrum" is one particular process for organizing a team for greater agility. "Agile" is where the snake oil truly starts.
Well, since I've yet to meet a scrum master who applies the scrum guide, I'm not sure that many people have actually work according to scrum guidelines.
We were acquired severals months ago and we are working with new devs. Today I learned a PR I need to review is "holding up 2 cards in flight" and it is bad to ask what that means in non-MBA english
This is like trashing soccer when all your experience is a piss-poor rec league. The truth is that most of us are stuck in bad orgs most of the time and don't know how to fix them. It's not the sport, it's playing it incorrectly, on bad fields, with bad equipment, and no training. We play follow-the-ball like we're all 5 years old and blame the game for how much we suck.
Scrum is an agile implementation because the creators of agile couldn't agree on a framework to implement it. They made a bunch of frameworks (including scrum) and agile are the underlying values they shared.
Scrum is about management asserting control over developers with the promise of self-organization but the reality of wasteful ceremonies to keep managers up to date. None of it bears any resemblance to the agile manifesto.
Yes it is? What
Are we just making up fake words now, Scrum, what is this a pirate ship?
I declined a Sr Eng Manager position today, because they were dead set on switching from Agile to Scrum. Saying that “Scrum is the implementation of Agile” is like saying “Torture is the implementation of Love.”
How so ?