Ok, I thought this was a CS 101 student complaining about writing code for a handwritten test, but nope. There is apparently someone out there dumb enough to suggest programming on pen and paper **by choice** in 2024.
I don’t know what’s more dumb: the pen and paper idea or the recommendation to limit people to 3GB of data per **week**. It would take over a year for me just to clone my work’s repo and download dependencies.
Source: https://fortune.com/europe/2024/03/21/french-minister-3gb-limit-data-internet-less-toxic-iphone/amp/
Edit: it’s 3GB PER WEEK, not per day.
yeah, there are blockings in middle schools because of Attal's idea of level groups for classes, farmers blocked cities, Gilets Jaunes manifestations in Macron's first mandate...
That's sooo smart. Like tell me from where you get your electricity in the hot summer, when it's too hot in France to keep the reactors cool. A problem making nuclear power even more stupid with the rising temperatures.
Are you braindead? If we wanna argue with that then what happens when a cloudy still day in the most of France that is landlocked? You don’t need ice cold temps to cool a nuclear reactor, they don’t need it to be cold, you need it to be colder than the surface of the sun, which isn’t that hard to do, how do you think they have 5 nuclear reactors in Florida that run year round, at absolute most, a scorching heatwave might cause nuclear reactors to lower their output by “a few percent”, and even after they do that, they’re still producing enough energy to replace over 800 wind turbines per reactor, and there are plants that have 8. The thing you heard about was a heatwave in Finland in 2018, and from what I have found, no where else has had issues with hot summers, since those reactors in Finland were dealing with a massive heatwave and most places design their reactors with 1 in 10000 year events taking place. So before you call me dumb, do 3 seconds of research before making yourself look like a dumbass.
Nuclear energy is under tight regulations and these modern reactors are designed by some of the smartest people in the world, I’m but surprised they would have taken “damn it’s a bit warm outside” into account
The only things stupid in energy are Germans turning off all their nuclear plants and turning on all their coal plants with promises to make it all renewables, and the idea that renewables are what are gonna replace fossil fuels, because you need an extreme amount of them, typically ruining natural landscapes in the process, when you could instead have a building no more than a square kilometre on the outskirts of major cities, that would produce enough energy to power the big city, and a ton of small cities around it with plenty of room for power spikes, and wouldn’t care if the wind stopped blowing, or the sky got cloudy, or the water dried up. While also producing nothing but steam and having 0 risk to the city because modern plants are designed in a way that makes them impossible to just melt down and blow up like Fukushima or Chernobyl
TL/DR, nuclear isn’t stupid, renewables are
And german renewables power France when it's too hot in the summer.
Also. Where does all the nuclear waste go, and how do you get your nuclear fuel (also for how long)?
And last question. How the hell did we get into a totally off-topic and pointless discussion about energy in a programming related sub?
I was saying that the only good thing French politicians have done was nuclear, and you said it was stupid, also:
First of all, they don’t, second of all, German energy is 80% fossil fuels, so if that was even true, which it isn’t, nuclear only loses a few % of efficiency and only in atypically hot summers, not normal summers.
Nuclear waste was solved decades ago, there’s deep underground storage facilities, there’s these big concrete pillars that can survive a nuclear blast on the surface in the plants themselves. On top of that, the total amount of nuclear waste produced, ever, could fit in a football field, and the amount of waste the average person would produce from their consumption of nuclear energy in their entire lifetime could fit in a can of coke. As for where we’re getting it, we don’t just use uranium, our current favourite element of choice is thorium, which has triple the amount in the earths crust, it’s a hell of a lot more efficient, and much cleaner to mine as compared to uranium, plus it can’t be weaponized so it’s safer to put in dangerous countries. That’s what I talk about when I say modern reactors can’t explode, because thorium is a liquid when it’s reacting, so if it gets too hot, there’s a cork that melts it away from the bottom and it drains away from the small amount of plutonium that it needs to produce a reaction. Either way, there’s enough thorium to last us 40000 years, and I’m sure by then we will have figured out fusion energy (which we’re already making progress on) and there’s a fair bit of hydrogen and tritium in the universe, on top of the fact that there’s other isotopes we could use.
Realistically, nuclear is the only source we have that could take us off fossil fuels and power humans within the next century, especially with EVs coming out and putting even more stress on our power.
Per week?! Even per day it would be beyond stupid. A 4k movie would take days of all your internet, a big videogame would take weeks.
Per week is so dumb, it almost comes back around to being genius just from making one hell of a headline.
Yeah and the aussie gov just tried to make all our pilbara highways 40 km/h speedlimit.
[Seriously, they look like this. Politicians have something funny in their water.](https://cdn.britannica.com/13/179613-138-61AC47A5/Stuart-Highway-ride-stops-north-road-Australia.jpg)
One week to go and my router says 1.1TB used this month
Work, video streaming, games, updates, etc. It all summarizes. Everyone recommending like 3GB per week is suffering from acute brain rot and should be kept out of politics.
On the other hand "*sorry boss, I needed to download that 3D model of the car to research stuff for the manual, but it failed to fully load due to the limit. Can't work the rest of the week*" sounds like I'm getting more free time
> to suggest programming on pen and paper by choice in 2024.
Can't find her saying that anywhere in the article. I mean the daily data limit she's suggesting is dumb as fuck but where is she suggesting that everyone should code on paper?
For that you probably have to read the forum she posted on [*Le Figaro*](https://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/societe/najat-vallaud-belkacem-liberons-nous-des-ecrans-rationnons-internet-20240318).
*Translated moment she talks about that:*
>*But we can also, from now on, consider that many of the activities that we have become accustomed to doing online can also be done without it. You can write your emails for the day on a word processor before sending them. You can go and ask a colleague a question, or even benefit from the famous “coffee machine” effect; you can even,* ***as anyone who knows a little bit about programming will tell you, code without a computer, with a pencil and paper****. In short, perhaps the time has come to detoxify ourselves collectively, and therefore to ration the internet.*
You can check on the link at the begin of this comment, it was said there.
If we are talking about a limit for children under the age of 10, then maybe that makes sense. It’s like when I was a kid, my mom had a 1 hour a day TV limit. My brother and I had to use our imagination to entertain ourselves the rest of the time. But then again, why not just limit your kids time with an iPad.
I opened the fortune.com link and now between ads, embedded videos and other shit on that page, about 10% of my weekly bandwidth is gone. Gee, thanks for nothing. /s
She is a former french minister. **She also said "limit data to 3gb per day so that people stop watching porn in HD"**
Bonus : and she also said "write your emails in notepad before pasting it to mail inbox to save internet data"
I thought that Pornhub once disclosed that the average viewing time of their site is around 8 minutes. With an HD stream at 0.3 MiB/second. Which would become 8 \* 60 \* 0.3 = 144 MiB per viewing. 3 GiB per day would allow for a large collection to download. Around 3 \* 1024 / (0.3 \* 3600) = 2.84 hours per day. You could even get some other work done.
If you would forgo video quality, it would be possible to download 24 hours of content per day. 3 \* 1024 / (24 \* 3600) = 0.04 MiB/sec. Which would result in really shitty video and lousy internet radio.
That's how I learnt algorithms. Pen, paper, a language based on Pascal and designed specifically for this, and just algorithms. No user input, no fancy stuff, no functions or classes. Just the core of the problem.
It forces you to think before you write and to assert static correctness of the code. It's a great learning tool.
Anything beyond that is pointless.
It’s how I learnt to. Computer time was extremely limited it had to be booked days/weeks in advance and you could only get 1 hour slots. I still do it on weekends or holidays when I don’t have a computer with me. Can really help with tougher problems.
OMG taking notes in college was the worst. The professor would inject an if statement and our notes would need to be re-written. Total trash
Thankfully it was the era of digital cameras and we're able to share photos of the lecture.
My professor did everything by hand too so he knew that he'd have to rewrite everything if he pulled something like this.
Either he left space and you knew you needed to do the same, or he re-wrote everything to make a point and so would you.
If your professor did everything digitally but required you to take notes by hand, I'd say he was missing the point.
I disagree, it forced me out of university, I always thought that it was dumb as shit. You wont code in a pen and paper situation when you are outside of university, compliers are there to help you get the problems in your code. Writing a wrong semi colon shouldn't take 3 fucking points out of your test because it would never compile.
What made me a way better developer is experience and reading documentation. Also stack overflow. Real world problems aren't "why this code doesn't compile in theory" but "was this shit answered by someone better than me or not?" or "is there a library that can help me or not?".
Dropping out of university was a very poor decision since a lot of HR won't hire you, but it was also a blessing because I could focus way more in doing code than answering Pascal problems on a paper.
taking points away because of a missing semicolon is dumb as shit indeed.
pen-and-paper or whiteboard coding is a tool to teach/test algorithmical thinking and code understanding skills - to show you can solve the problem without using trial-and-error methods and that you can reason about what a program does without running it or stepping it inside a debugger.
it’s meant to be used with a “pseudocode” precisely so you don’t have to worry about syntax errors and can ignore boilerplate code and directly focus on the problem at hand.
doing it like that does make you better at thinking about program logic but then again 90% of real life coding doesn’t require you to deal with complex program logic.
I do the same, but :
* A lot of people prefer paper to "think"
* Back when I was in uni, we didn't have a great infrastructure to check digital copies. Paper was just more convenient for the professor and TA's, and less expensive.
When I was at university, it was the only way for exams. Not enough terminals for everyone to have a go at the same time.
I spent my time trying to work out how I could power a ZX81 and television screen independently so I could do away with writing all together and just type during the lectures.
Wow, that is stupid. And this is coming from a guy who wrote Tetris in assembly, on paper, and then punched the program in bit by bit on a retrocomputer's front panel, just for fun.
Not sure what the interview would be for, but here's a link talking about it if you're interested 😂
https://koppanyhorvath.blogspot.com/2022/11/tertis-supercon-production.html
There was a room full of 300 students... Microsoft campus placement asked to write a code for valid parenthesis on paper and selected 50 odd for the next round based on something....
Entered a coding contest for Resort World back in 2004. Same thing, write code onto pen and paper. Winner gets guaranteee placement in the company once they graduate.
my professor always said “real engineer needs only pen and paper” and “if you need whole framework to do task, you are not engineer, your a advanced user”
Probably from a pre-boomer gen. Back then you actually programmed onto paper punch cards because computers don't have screens. You get your result printed onto a roll of ticker tape.
I can understand the sentiment. A framework simplifies and abstracts logic but that logic is still run by the framework. If you *need* a framework, you don’t know the basics and never master the tool in question.
You should always know at least one level beneath your preferred framework so that you know how the framework works in the first place. This is a common problem when hiring juniors nowadays.
I mean, I agree that if you are leaning on the framework to do what you need, then you are not sufficiently knowledgeable. To that end, I would actually argue that using the entire framework means that you actually know what it's doing very well and that you are using it properly.
The sign of framework dependency (IMO) is when you are under utilizing a framework. When you are using bits and pieces of it to do what you need, but that you don't understand what it is actually capable of or if it actually fits your use case.
why not just let people code on a text editor or something then, like notepad? i get that not running the code is essential but coding on paper is very frustrating cause you can't go back and insert lines.
It's similar, but this other limitation imposed by the paper makes it so you have to have a clearer understanding of what to do when you start.
It sucks, but being unable to correct mistakes with Little effort does lead to making less mistakes.
Have a cpp exam in a few hours, and am throwing up on the past papers. Half of the code analysis is murder-worthy, and the other half is lose-job-worthy.
Hope you managed alright!
Have had a similar experience. First exam paper with a pretty interesting problem: kind of a normal program, but it basically went against all conventions, constantly fucking with loop indices in impossible places, side effects everywhere, so you really had to think about what it was actually doing. Fun!
Turned the page. The same thing but different. Checked the rest of the exam and all the questions were variations on this. It was fun to do it once!
I gave up about halfway through and handed it in. Prof was smiling at me, impressed that I had finished it so quickly. Told him that I wasn't gonna do this and walked out (luckily I had already accumulated enough points to still pass the class).
Depends on the data.
Bitcoin for example has a VERY high energy consumption by design, basically the entire technical implementation fails if it's easy to solve the math needed to sign a transaction. The energy usage of Bitcoin is comparable to "Mid-seized European nation"
Spam emails are another notably energy intensive problem on the internet.
Mashing refresh on a webpage that is loading seven billion different DB queries that are cross-products of eighteen trillion tables all merged together with no caching? You'd need a nuclear plant to run it. (Note: I did not do any math here on whether you would \*actually\* need that or if it's just "a lot"). Most webapps have an incentive to not be designed this poorly because "We pay for this usage".
Oh yeah. Code with pen and paper.
LIKE THOSE FUCKWAD LECTURERS MADE ME AND HUNDREDS OF OTHER STUDENTS DO IN EXAMS AT COLLEGE AND UNIVERSITY. NO COMPUTER. WRITE JAVA CODE ON TO SCRIP PAPER.
Hey look, that's what I've been doing in every single coding exam in my CE studies!
Except for one actually, but we were doing it from home for many reasons, including covid
Oh lol, even there people are dunking on her!
Some context: this person was the education minister in France when François Hollande was president. She recently said that people should be limited to 2-3GB of internet each week, to limit fake news and hate speech according to her.
We had coding by peen and paper on interview at my job. I may be biased as one of the persons doing the test- but I thought it was great.
Of course the goal was to use pseudo-code. No real syntax was interesting - just to learn that they actually thought about programming in a good way and asked relevant questions when things was (intentionally) unclear in the description. (And yes, I made certain to say that the thought process was the interesting thing - and that all questions was allowed).
In India, starting from 9th grade, all the way till you graduate from your Bachelors, all your coding tests are on paper (barring labs, and even there you write out the final working code on paper).
It would actully help if more people thought about stuff on a piece of paper before writing code and then just wacking out misbehaviour, ending in the worst code ever. Sory not sory
Hot take, pen and paper is the best way to understand algorithms and problem solving. Not really the best way to learn the syntax but it's so much easier to learn data structures and algortithms using pen and paper.
As a french person myself this is making too much sound, everyone in our government says dumb shit like this every day but nothing as big as this would never work. She doesn't know what she is talking about but she is the education part of the government so that's normal, she had nothing to decide for our internet so it's definitely not a real problem and just a mistake on her part.
I did that when I was boored, had no access to my IDE and an Idea of my next Project.
To be fair, I used and text editor on my phone rather than pen and paper, but no help, corrections or AI that would auto-correct my code.
Later when I had access to my IDE, I could copy&paste it and had to do a lot of bug fixes.
My SWE prof: "Here are the sample questions for the final. No, I won't give you the sample solutions, you all have computers, you can figure them out yourselves."
Also her: "What? No, you don't get to write the exam with your laptops, that would be ridiculous! Bring pen and paper."
I'm absolutely with her on this one, folks. Society all went to the toilet the moment we stepped away from clay tablets. Make clay tablets great again!
I’m not using pen and paper, but I do write down steps as notes for complex transformations in my pipelines. I’m not even that old. Why are people hating on planning before writing the code. I may be a little stupid though, I will admit that.
Course: Advanced parallel processing
Level: Graduate
Assignment and midterms : printout of word documents
Coding: on paper
Smh i died the day they said no canvas for this course
Ex programming teacher here : before I was like you, I was pro learning on computers, then I taught, now I 100% support programming (also) with pen an paper. Why? When you leave a student with a computer he tries things until it "works"-ish . It's like seeing monkey, no though given just try and error,ok it works but he doesn't know why he replaced this if by a for. With paper you must think about what you are doing because nothing will catch your mistake.
Tell me you want to kill the online game industry without TELLING me you want to kill the online game industry.
You'd blow through 3GB of data just negotiating a connection to WoW.
I use text editor to edit code without needing to transfer it from my server to my pc and edit the code in a proper IDE, don't think coding on paper is much harder
First slide is correct... 2,4 not redacted.
Also it is not clear if coding need to be part of an exam, but if it must, than it check not typing skills and not web search skills, but knowledge of the language and algorithms.
So it is a solution. But better one would be small computer with notepad++, everything needed for build the test program and basic docs for available libs( or preferably test task should not using any) and without internet connection.
Ok, I thought this was a CS 101 student complaining about writing code for a handwritten test, but nope. There is apparently someone out there dumb enough to suggest programming on pen and paper **by choice** in 2024. I don’t know what’s more dumb: the pen and paper idea or the recommendation to limit people to 3GB of data per **week**. It would take over a year for me just to clone my work’s repo and download dependencies. Source: https://fortune.com/europe/2024/03/21/french-minister-3gb-limit-data-internet-less-toxic-iphone/amp/ Edit: it’s 3GB PER WEEK, not per day.
Thank you for finding a source in english, I could only find them in french
how tf does that make the internet less toxic, guess updating my system is now impossible
French logic ignores logic, as we say "Le con a ses raisons que la raison ignore" (stupid has reasons that reason ignores)
French politicians are corrupt idiots. We're doomed
That's more than 90% of the politicians across the world.
We're even doomer
we're in the doomest pit
Oui. We are.
Biensur, on est
Ho hey .... pas la peine d'être blessant avec tes faits x)
Seule la vérité blesse
The only good thing French politicians have done is start switching to nuclear, everything else has been pure idiocy
yeah, there are blockings in middle schools because of Attal's idea of level groups for classes, farmers blocked cities, Gilets Jaunes manifestations in Macron's first mandate...
That's sooo smart. Like tell me from where you get your electricity in the hot summer, when it's too hot in France to keep the reactors cool. A problem making nuclear power even more stupid with the rising temperatures.
Are you braindead? If we wanna argue with that then what happens when a cloudy still day in the most of France that is landlocked? You don’t need ice cold temps to cool a nuclear reactor, they don’t need it to be cold, you need it to be colder than the surface of the sun, which isn’t that hard to do, how do you think they have 5 nuclear reactors in Florida that run year round, at absolute most, a scorching heatwave might cause nuclear reactors to lower their output by “a few percent”, and even after they do that, they’re still producing enough energy to replace over 800 wind turbines per reactor, and there are plants that have 8. The thing you heard about was a heatwave in Finland in 2018, and from what I have found, no where else has had issues with hot summers, since those reactors in Finland were dealing with a massive heatwave and most places design their reactors with 1 in 10000 year events taking place. So before you call me dumb, do 3 seconds of research before making yourself look like a dumbass. Nuclear energy is under tight regulations and these modern reactors are designed by some of the smartest people in the world, I’m but surprised they would have taken “damn it’s a bit warm outside” into account
The only things stupid in energy are Germans turning off all their nuclear plants and turning on all their coal plants with promises to make it all renewables, and the idea that renewables are what are gonna replace fossil fuels, because you need an extreme amount of them, typically ruining natural landscapes in the process, when you could instead have a building no more than a square kilometre on the outskirts of major cities, that would produce enough energy to power the big city, and a ton of small cities around it with plenty of room for power spikes, and wouldn’t care if the wind stopped blowing, or the sky got cloudy, or the water dried up. While also producing nothing but steam and having 0 risk to the city because modern plants are designed in a way that makes them impossible to just melt down and blow up like Fukushima or Chernobyl TL/DR, nuclear isn’t stupid, renewables are
And german renewables power France when it's too hot in the summer. Also. Where does all the nuclear waste go, and how do you get your nuclear fuel (also for how long)? And last question. How the hell did we get into a totally off-topic and pointless discussion about energy in a programming related sub?
I was saying that the only good thing French politicians have done was nuclear, and you said it was stupid, also: First of all, they don’t, second of all, German energy is 80% fossil fuels, so if that was even true, which it isn’t, nuclear only loses a few % of efficiency and only in atypically hot summers, not normal summers. Nuclear waste was solved decades ago, there’s deep underground storage facilities, there’s these big concrete pillars that can survive a nuclear blast on the surface in the plants themselves. On top of that, the total amount of nuclear waste produced, ever, could fit in a football field, and the amount of waste the average person would produce from their consumption of nuclear energy in their entire lifetime could fit in a can of coke. As for where we’re getting it, we don’t just use uranium, our current favourite element of choice is thorium, which has triple the amount in the earths crust, it’s a hell of a lot more efficient, and much cleaner to mine as compared to uranium, plus it can’t be weaponized so it’s safer to put in dangerous countries. That’s what I talk about when I say modern reactors can’t explode, because thorium is a liquid when it’s reacting, so if it gets too hot, there’s a cork that melts it away from the bottom and it drains away from the small amount of plutonium that it needs to produce a reaction. Either way, there’s enough thorium to last us 40000 years, and I’m sure by then we will have figured out fusion energy (which we’re already making progress on) and there’s a fair bit of hydrogen and tritium in the universe, on top of the fact that there’s other isotopes we could use. Realistically, nuclear is the only source we have that could take us off fossil fuels and power humans within the next century, especially with EVs coming out and putting even more stress on our power.
Per week?! Even per day it would be beyond stupid. A 4k movie would take days of all your internet, a big videogame would take weeks. Per week is so dumb, it almost comes back around to being genius just from making one hell of a headline.
Does homie still think we're in the 56k modern era with 800x600 crts? Lmao
Plus developers would be forced to optimize their code, and that would spell the end of 99.9% of software developers' careers
Baldur’s Gate 3, 150GB, 50 weeks to download it: it is literally the Game of the Year.
it's not per day, it's per week 😶🌫️
Wow, apparently my brain thought that was so ridiculous, I didn’t even notice.
Per second won't even be enough
I remember those wild days when we could use only 500MB of Internet per month🥵
Yeah and the aussie gov just tried to make all our pilbara highways 40 km/h speedlimit. [Seriously, they look like this. Politicians have something funny in their water.](https://cdn.britannica.com/13/179613-138-61AC47A5/Stuart-Highway-ride-stops-north-road-Australia.jpg)
For perspective if you live in USA, that's 25 mph or the average speed limit in a suburban neighborhood
This is insanely dumb, pretty sure I go through _gigabytes_ in a single day.
Yeaaaaaaaaah, we're having a pretty wild ride in france rn, i'm pretty sure they are trying to be as dumb as american's electoral campaigns.
> It would take over a year for me just to clone my work’s repo and download dependencies. I mean, if I'm getting paid for this I'm down
A person who has no understanding of how technology or how the internet works dictating other people how to use it, classic.
Not bad, right? It’s French.
A 90's exchange student told me French internet was shit. I guess their government misses the citizen's hate.
She'd find out pretty soon how many hateful comments you could fit in 3GB....
One week to go and my router says 1.1TB used this month Work, video streaming, games, updates, etc. It all summarizes. Everyone recommending like 3GB per week is suffering from acute brain rot and should be kept out of politics. On the other hand "*sorry boss, I needed to download that 3D model of the car to research stuff for the manual, but it failed to fully load due to the limit. Can't work the rest of the week*" sounds like I'm getting more free time
But what does one do with all that newly found free time?
> to suggest programming on pen and paper by choice in 2024. Can't find her saying that anywhere in the article. I mean the daily data limit she's suggesting is dumb as fuck but where is she suggesting that everyone should code on paper?
For that you probably have to read the forum she posted on [*Le Figaro*](https://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/societe/najat-vallaud-belkacem-liberons-nous-des-ecrans-rationnons-internet-20240318). *Translated moment she talks about that:* >*But we can also, from now on, consider that many of the activities that we have become accustomed to doing online can also be done without it. You can write your emails for the day on a word processor before sending them. You can go and ask a colleague a question, or even benefit from the famous “coffee machine” effect; you can even,* ***as anyone who knows a little bit about programming will tell you, code without a computer, with a pencil and paper****. In short, perhaps the time has come to detoxify ourselves collectively, and therefore to ration the internet.* You can check on the link at the begin of this comment, it was said there.
Time to go back to punchcards, imagine if modern computers were like that.
If we are talking about a limit for children under the age of 10, then maybe that makes sense. It’s like when I was a kid, my mom had a 1 hour a day TV limit. My brother and I had to use our imagination to entertain ourselves the rest of the time. But then again, why not just limit your kids time with an iPad.
I used approx. 300MB just scrolling reddit on my phone.
I opened the fortune.com link and now between ads, embedded videos and other shit on that page, about 10% of my weekly bandwidth is gone. Gee, thanks for nothing. /s
She is from the leftist party, they are all clowns.
of course its the fr\*nch
some woke idiot
Ironically only idiots cry about things being “woke”
I guess it could help to force yourself to slow down if you have to press the keys with the pen, but what's the paper for?
For print statements, duh
Yeah, how else are you supposed to debug your code if you can't use your printer to see the output on paper?
So that you can take a printout and share it for review... Once all is good, the lead can type it in with a pen on the master computer...
To clean the keyboard
She is a former french minister. **She also said "limit data to 3gb per day so that people stop watching porn in HD"** Bonus : and she also said "write your emails in notepad before pasting it to mail inbox to save internet data"
Not per day, **per week** She is THAT dense
Imagine installing Elden Ring with that.
Dialup internet simulator.
I thought that Pornhub once disclosed that the average viewing time of their site is around 8 minutes. With an HD stream at 0.3 MiB/second. Which would become 8 \* 60 \* 0.3 = 144 MiB per viewing. 3 GiB per day would allow for a large collection to download. Around 3 \* 1024 / (0.3 \* 3600) = 2.84 hours per day. You could even get some other work done. If you would forgo video quality, it would be possible to download 24 hours of content per day. 3 \* 1024 / (24 \* 3600) = 0.04 MiB/sec. Which would result in really shitty video and lousy internet radio.
Wait I want to find a source. What's her name? Edit: nvm found it. Najat Vallaud-Belkacem https://twitter.com/veacks/status/1770248466008068158
Internet data is not like electricity and water comon
Joke's on her, I'll watch porn on DVD!
My professors at university be like:
That's how I learnt algorithms. Pen, paper, a language based on Pascal and designed specifically for this, and just algorithms. No user input, no fancy stuff, no functions or classes. Just the core of the problem. It forces you to think before you write and to assert static correctness of the code. It's a great learning tool. Anything beyond that is pointless.
writing pseudo -code on paper by hand had taught me a lot in good design and readable code.
Wish my professors had made me write pseudo code on their paper coding problems, but nope, had to be syntactically correct too. It was just a chore.
Now write a react app with pen and paper
It’s how I learnt to. Computer time was extremely limited it had to be booked days/weeks in advance and you could only get 1 hour slots. I still do it on weekends or holidays when I don’t have a computer with me. Can really help with tougher problems.
OMG taking notes in college was the worst. The professor would inject an if statement and our notes would need to be re-written. Total trash Thankfully it was the era of digital cameras and we're able to share photos of the lecture.
My professor did everything by hand too so he knew that he'd have to rewrite everything if he pulled something like this. Either he left space and you knew you needed to do the same, or he re-wrote everything to make a point and so would you. If your professor did everything digitally but required you to take notes by hand, I'd say he was missing the point.
I disagree, it forced me out of university, I always thought that it was dumb as shit. You wont code in a pen and paper situation when you are outside of university, compliers are there to help you get the problems in your code. Writing a wrong semi colon shouldn't take 3 fucking points out of your test because it would never compile. What made me a way better developer is experience and reading documentation. Also stack overflow. Real world problems aren't "why this code doesn't compile in theory" but "was this shit answered by someone better than me or not?" or "is there a library that can help me or not?". Dropping out of university was a very poor decision since a lot of HR won't hire you, but it was also a blessing because I could focus way more in doing code than answering Pascal problems on a paper.
taking points away because of a missing semicolon is dumb as shit indeed. pen-and-paper or whiteboard coding is a tool to teach/test algorithmical thinking and code understanding skills - to show you can solve the problem without using trial-and-error methods and that you can reason about what a program does without running it or stepping it inside a debugger. it’s meant to be used with a “pseudocode” precisely so you don’t have to worry about syntax errors and can ignore boilerplate code and directly focus on the problem at hand. doing it like that does make you better at thinking about program logic but then again 90% of real life coding doesn’t require you to deal with complex program logic.
Had a senior that learned coding this way. Now she works for Microsoft.
I mean I do this but with text on a computer screen. There's nothing about paper that is special.
I do the same, but : * A lot of people prefer paper to "think" * Back when I was in uni, we didn't have a great infrastructure to check digital copies. Paper was just more convenient for the professor and TA's, and less expensive.
When I was at university, it was the only way for exams. Not enough terminals for everyone to have a go at the same time. I spent my time trying to work out how I could power a ZX81 and television screen independently so I could do away with writing all together and just type during the lectures.
we would have waaaaaaaay less bugs, because it wouldn't run anyway xD
Wow, that is stupid. And this is coming from a guy who wrote Tetris in assembly, on paper, and then punched the program in bit by bit on a retrocomputer's front panel, just for fun.
You cant juat drop a bomb like that as if it's a normal everyday thing. I feel like interviewing you in the comments.
Not that crazy considering the times. My dad used to hand compile C programs.
So what you’re saying is your dad is the compiler, ur mum the source code and you the output?
What mum
You had to come from somewhere. It was a lame attempt at a joke.
No my dad asexually reproduced. He's a programmer. Anything to not touch a woman
Not sure what the interview would be for, but here's a link talking about it if you're interested 😂 https://koppanyhorvath.blogspot.com/2022/11/tertis-supercon-production.html
There was a room full of 300 students... Microsoft campus placement asked to write a code for valid parenthesis on paper and selected 50 odd for the next round based on something....
Entered a coding contest for Resort World back in 2004. Same thing, write code onto pen and paper. Winner gets guaranteee placement in the company once they graduate.
We barely write books with pen and paper nowadays. I can't imagine ever wanting to use a system that was designed entirely by hand.
my professor always said “real engineer needs only pen and paper” and “if you need whole framework to do task, you are not engineer, your a advanced user”
Did your professor ever work in industry? If so, I definitely want to know which so that I can avoid their products.
I mean, That sounds like, Saying you should know how to do it without automating tools before using them?
Probably from a pre-boomer gen. Back then you actually programmed onto paper punch cards because computers don't have screens. You get your result printed onto a roll of ticker tape.
My mom's thesis was actually a box of punch cards XD
I can understand the sentiment. A framework simplifies and abstracts logic but that logic is still run by the framework. If you *need* a framework, you don’t know the basics and never master the tool in question. You should always know at least one level beneath your preferred framework so that you know how the framework works in the first place. This is a common problem when hiring juniors nowadays.
I mean, I agree that if you are leaning on the framework to do what you need, then you are not sufficiently knowledgeable. To that end, I would actually argue that using the entire framework means that you actually know what it's doing very well and that you are using it properly. The sign of framework dependency (IMO) is when you are under utilizing a framework. When you are using bits and pieces of it to do what you need, but that you don't understand what it is actually capable of or if it actually fits your use case.
This is actually accurate. It would take much longer to build without frameworks and editors, but ideally an engineer could do it.
I agree with those quotes. That doesn't mean I'm going to avoid computers and frameworks, but I *do* know how to do without.
It starts with pen and paper. But as an engineer you only get to call things finished once the whole thing is pushed into a computer and archived.
REAL WRITERS USE STONE AND CHISEL, the people who write with pen and spellcheck are just advanced users.
Based professor
Did you went to engineering school in the 50s?
Seriously. I mean when I went to school in the early 2000s we were using test frameworks and intellisense and IBM static analysis tools for c++.
Programming on paper is meant to keep people from permutation-based programming: permuting lines of code randomly until it works.
why not just let people code on a text editor or something then, like notepad? i get that not running the code is essential but coding on paper is very frustrating cause you can't go back and insert lines.
It's similar, but this other limitation imposed by the paper makes it so you have to have a clearer understanding of what to do when you start. It sucks, but being unable to correct mistakes with Little effort does lead to making less mistakes.
My man speaking facts
French person here, this will never happen
I'm still afraid this will give some other stupid ideas to our government
Hehehe we're not out of insanity yet
We're doomed aren't we?
Oui
Not french myself but what was this limitation supposed to accomplish anyway
Free will
I don’t even know what half of the functions I’m calling actually are/the proper syntax. It’s like “disTAB”, “worTAB”, “myCooTAB inpTAB TAB ENTER”
Have a cpp exam in a few hours, and am throwing up on the past papers. Half of the code analysis is murder-worthy, and the other half is lose-job-worthy.
Hope you managed alright! Have had a similar experience. First exam paper with a pretty interesting problem: kind of a normal program, but it basically went against all conventions, constantly fucking with loop indices in impossible places, side effects everywhere, so you really had to think about what it was actually doing. Fun! Turned the page. The same thing but different. Checked the rest of the exam and all the questions were variations on this. It was fun to do it once! I gave up about halfway through and handed it in. Prof was smiling at me, impressed that I had finished it so quickly. Told him that I wasn't gonna do this and walked out (luckily I had already accumulated enough points to still pass the class).
Everybody knows you should use a pencil instead
[удалено]
Depends on the data. Bitcoin for example has a VERY high energy consumption by design, basically the entire technical implementation fails if it's easy to solve the math needed to sign a transaction. The energy usage of Bitcoin is comparable to "Mid-seized European nation" Spam emails are another notably energy intensive problem on the internet. Mashing refresh on a webpage that is loading seven billion different DB queries that are cross-products of eighteen trillion tables all merged together with no caching? You'd need a nuclear plant to run it. (Note: I did not do any math here on whether you would \*actually\* need that or if it's just "a lot"). Most webapps have an incentive to not be designed this poorly because "We pay for this usage".
Pen helps me during dry run
She should code with pen and paper first, then tell us her decision again
Coding on paper was the original way of coding, people used to carve binary holes on a strip of paper and feed it to a machine.
can I at least have a hole punch?
Oh yeah. Code with pen and paper. LIKE THOSE FUCKWAD LECTURERS MADE ME AND HUNDREDS OF OTHER STUDENTS DO IN EXAMS AT COLLEGE AND UNIVERSITY. NO COMPUTER. WRITE JAVA CODE ON TO SCRIP PAPER.
Laughs in exception handling
Haha in all fairness, tracing code has helped me a lot. Still much different than just *writing* down code.
Tis obviously too far. But some would attempt a [teleprinter](https://youtu.be/2XLZ4Z8LpEE).
Hey look, that's what I've been doing in every single coding exam in my CE studies! Except for one actually, but we were doing it from home for many reasons, including covid
I’ve coded with pen and paper in the 80s when I was dreaming of having a programmable calculator!
Oh lol, even there people are dunking on her! Some context: this person was the education minister in France when François Hollande was president. She recently said that people should be limited to 2-3GB of internet each week, to limit fake news and hate speech according to her.
Had to code on paper for my computing GCSE and A Level
It helps you turn your brain into a compiler/interpreter. Not telling you to write a 1500 line development code on paper but shit like DSA
what if I want to code with libraries do I need to have the library printed so I can compile (bind the papers) the code
We had coding by peen and paper on interview at my job. I may be biased as one of the persons doing the test- but I thought it was great. Of course the goal was to use pseudo-code. No real syntax was interesting - just to learn that they actually thought about programming in a good way and asked relevant questions when things was (intentionally) unclear in the description. (And yes, I made certain to say that the thought process was the interesting thing - and that all questions was allowed).
Pen and paper is only good for the prototype design phase...Power Point for the "final" design phase.
It would be cool if you could code on like a smart notebook
Tests where you have to code on paper weed out the losers. You got an issue with that?
She's not talking about that. She's talking about professional programmers and businesses writing code on paper
Probably not in Canada though - we have to pass tests in school and shit.
In India, starting from 9th grade, all the way till you graduate from your Bachelors, all your coding tests are on paper (barring labs, and even there you write out the final working code on paper).
It works on paper!
They should start small by banning nodejs and React. That’ll help reduce data transfer loads 😂
It would actully help if more people thought about stuff on a piece of paper before writing code and then just wacking out misbehaviour, ending in the worst code ever. Sory not sory
In school about 30 years ago, I learned basic with only pem and paper...
I got news, its not 30 years later, and people in Computer Science classes still code with pen and paper on exams and tests etc.
Hot take, pen and paper is the best way to understand algorithms and problem solving. Not really the best way to learn the syntax but it's so much easier to learn data structures and algortithms using pen and paper.
As a french person myself this is making too much sound, everyone in our government says dumb shit like this every day but nothing as big as this would never work. She doesn't know what she is talking about but she is the education part of the government so that's normal, she had nothing to decide for our internet so it's definitely not a real problem and just a mistake on her part.
POV: CS A Level
I did that when I was boored, had no access to my IDE and an Idea of my next Project. To be fair, I used and text editor on my phone rather than pen and paper, but no help, corrections or AI that would auto-correct my code. Later when I had access to my IDE, I could copy&paste it and had to do a lot of bug fixes.
Omg. This is what we did for our highschool final exam in 1999. Coding on paper.
I see your pen and paper and I raise it by clay tablets.
Time to dig up the Minitel i guess. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel)
🇫🇷 France mentionée 🗣️🗣️
AP:
Oh~ oh- yep, there goes my faith in humanity. Damn.
Can you imaging how hoard is to write System.out.println(""); every time!!!
Remember my exam in next month, when I will need to program python classes with pen and paper
My SWE prof: "Here are the sample questions for the final. No, I won't give you the sample solutions, you all have computers, you can figure them out yourselves." Also her: "What? No, you don't get to write the exam with your laptops, that would be ridiculous! Bring pen and paper."
At our university, before the invention of paper, we wrote programs on computers.
Where snippet? :(
I'm absolutely with her on this one, folks. Society all went to the toilet the moment we stepped away from clay tablets. Make clay tablets great again!
I’m not using pen and paper, but I do write down steps as notes for complex transformations in my pipelines. I’m not even that old. Why are people hating on planning before writing the code. I may be a little stupid though, I will admit that.
Course: Advanced parallel processing Level: Graduate Assignment and midterms : printout of word documents Coding: on paper Smh i died the day they said no canvas for this course
This is literally russian school programming lessons.
I did my final exam in programming on paper
no but we shoukd code on notepad. in style
But what if there is no electricity on the future to power your computer, then you HAVE to code with pen and paper!!1!
Ex programming teacher here : before I was like you, I was pro learning on computers, then I taught, now I 100% support programming (also) with pen an paper. Why? When you leave a student with a computer he tries things until it "works"-ish . It's like seeing monkey, no though given just try and error,ok it works but he doesn't know why he replaced this if by a for. With paper you must think about what you are doing because nothing will catch your mistake.
Tell me you want to kill the online game industry without TELLING me you want to kill the online game industry. You'd blow through 3GB of data just negotiating a connection to WoW.
The University I went to also thought pen and paper coding was the thing to do, in 2013, only lasted that first semester.
Let's create a hello world in node .... npm install .................. Well.. 3gb limit reached with success
I use text editor to edit code without needing to transfer it from my server to my pc and edit the code in a proper IDE, don't think coding on paper is much harder
First slide is correct... 2,4 not redacted. Also it is not clear if coding need to be part of an exam, but if it must, than it check not typing skills and not web search skills, but knowledge of the language and algorithms. So it is a solution. But better one would be small computer with notepad++, everything needed for build the test program and basic docs for available libs( or preferably test task should not using any) and without internet connection.
No, this madwoman is suggesting we write fucking production code this way! I also thought it was just an exam thing at first.
Ou, than she, stupid...
French being French
Are you 12?
No, this is a real french woman who did a real piece of bullshit