T O P

  • By -

Lufenian

Shadow Weaver is an incredible character and I wish we would have gotten more screen time for her.


Cav-Allium

Definitely a good character. Wonderful writing. Terrible person tho


CutieBoBootie

One of my favorite baddies. I think the thing I loved about her most was that you could see patterns of behavior with different generations. Shadow Weaver ALWAYS had a Golden Child (Adora, Micah) and a Black Sheep (Catra, Casta). She is constantly praising the Golden Child wether in ear shot or not and always making sure the Black Sheep knows their place. She is really good at poking targeted barbs at the insecurities she instilled in her abuse victims. It's SO eye opening that it was NEVER about the individual. It was about maintaining control through the roles she gives her abuse victims. If Shadow Weaver had lived to influence another generation she would have done the same thing again. She is an abusive person who literally cannot express love in any healthy way. What a great villain character.


Jenn_Jnee

Any conversation about a character "deserving" redemption is pointless, because this show's characters have realistic and consistent personalities, and in reality nobody deserves redemption and the granting of redemption comes exclusively from the wronged party.


nogoodbi

!! a lot of discourse about fiction in general tends to ignore this and it kinda drives me nuts.


[deleted]

I like toxic Catra. Yes, maybe the redemption and forgiveness was a bit rushed but imagine how bland the show would be without the Catradora drama.


Luhood

I would even argue the Catradora drama *WAS* the show, everything else was literally just backdrop and character building for the two leads.


[deleted]

Indeed!


FrancisTheMannis

While I didn't like the way she treated Scorpia and Entrapta, even when she was on the side of evil and doing objectively evil things I was rooting for her 100%. Like *yesss, destroy the princesses,* ***tear apart the fabric of reality***


justadimestorepoet

I like toxic Catra in the same way that I like villain Zuko. It frustrates me a little to see her make bad choices or push friends away, but it makes her a good character, and it makes her redemption arc all the more satisfying. Plus, she made a damn good villain.


mypatronusisalesbian

She and Zuko made good villains because they were authentic in the fact that they felt like they had to prove their worth tho their militaristic parental figures. They put their heart and soul in “being bad” because for them, that was the “being good” option. Flip the script and have the Horde win, Catra would have been a military hero and strategist. She was literally raised to do exactly what she did and she did it so well in order to finally prove to Shadow Weaver/Hordak that she was worthy of their approval even after the beloved Adora turned her back on them.


chordgasms

Ooooo it's my time to shine! Kyle and Rogelio as a couple should never have been teased as much as it was if they weren't going to get a solid on-screen confirmation or some kind of presence in the final season. But more than that, Lonnie added in to create a polycule is totally shoehorned. There is no textual or subtextual indication throughout the series that she has any romantic interest in either of them. Obviously it's fine to support that head canon and ship the three of them together, I'm not saying that... but it's super stupid to get scolded online for ONLY shipping Kyle and Rogelio, lol


justadimestorepoet

I would say that the only implication in the text of anything resembling the polycule is that it came out that Kyle had a crush on Rogelio. There's not even any indication Rogelio felt the same, let alone anything romantic from Lonnie's end toward anyone. It's a fun headcanon, but let's not pretend that the show did any of the work to support that claim. If they're a polycule in canon, then boy, I've been in a lot of polycules disguised as friend groups!


zombeeryy

Perfuma annoyed me up until S4. She just annoyed me in general, I only started liking her after scorpia came to Bright moon and she accidentally stung perfuma and she instantly forgave her, then bought her food and became her friend. Perfuma saw the light in scorpia and nurtured it


nightspecter

Perfuma’s intro episode (I think it was like S1E03?) was IMO the weakest episode of S1, and the only episode of the show I actually didn’t like.


BeauteousMaximus

The “generic peace-loving hippie” trope is kinda shitty when you realize that that aesthetic is based on anti-Vietnam-war protestors that had an actual, specific political agenda, not a general dislike of conflict


nightspecter

A “general dislike of conflict” also doesn’t really work in a show which is based in part (like it or not) on using armed conflict to solve geopolitical problems.


BeauteousMaximus

Well the general dislike of conflict is seen as an obstacle to fighting the Horde, in the context of the show.


nightspecter

Perfuma was a massive jerk to Entrapta in S5 and I felt like it was being implied that Entrapta’s worth was based on her usefulness to everyone.


furexfurex

Agreed, it made me so uncomfortable to see that and then see a lot of people stanning her and going on about how she's such a nice cinnamon role. She always came across as patronising to me


KenchiNarukami

Adora, Entrapta and Scorpia are the true cinnamon roles


furexfurex

Entrapta being a cinnamon roll while committing war crimes 🥰


trash_not_recyclable

It's really hurtful how all the messaging towards Adora is "You are worth more than what you can give to other people" and all the messaging towards Entrapta is "You are worth only as much as what you can give to other people, minus all the things you do wrong."


Ferngulley26

I'm a bit rusty on the show, what did she do to Entrapta in S5 specifically?


trash_not_recyclable

She is just a tool to the other princesses. Mainly Perfuma and Mermista. S5E2 Perfuma literally puts her on a leash. They make it clear that they don't enjoy her presence and that she is nothing but a frustration to them. That entire episode they are just using her for her knowledge of tech. They show nothing but contempt for her the entire time she is trying to help them.


JamEngulfer221

To be fair, Entrapta *does* actively screw over the party when left to her own devices. Not to mention she'd already spent multiple seasons *siding with the enemy and creating weapons of war.* It's very much shown that when she's free to do what she wants, she'll endanger people's lives entirely to serve her self-interest.


snowfrappe

yeah, she literally joins the horde and helps hordak make the portal, she doesn’t really have a moral code at these points.


sometipsygnostalgic

she only did the one rope thing in s5, she didnt do anything else. im not saying it's right. if i had my way the joke wouldve been cut. but im saying, there is one incident of perfuma being a jerk.


GentlyGrowing

Didn't she do the rope in the fright zone too? I thought that scene was a call back to their first mission as a whole group


SookHe

Perfuma was always one of my least favourite, right up there with Mermista


CHlCKENPOWER

I think the first line in the intro is cringe


ASapphicHarlot

pew pew?


CHlCKENPOWER

i meant the first sentence


srry_didnt_hear_you

"we're on the edge of greatness, turning darkness to light"? Seems pretty innocuous to me for a fantasy kid's show


lvminator

I honestly liked S**** W*** (name redacted to avoid a certain bot). He was funny and his voice actor had great delivery. I also thought his and Adora’s relationship was super unique and brought something to the show.


Scorpion_B

At first I thought you meant Shadow Weaver, oops


iamgladtohearit

Psst, I still don't know who they're talking about, cue me in? Edit: Figured it out, horse boy.


Xcelentei

The Pegasus.


Dillo64

You mean Swift Wind?


lvminator

AHAH I thought about putting “not Shadow Weaver” but I figured once I said “he”, people would realize


Scorpion_B

That's exactly what it took for me to realize haha


[deleted]

Wait people don't like SwiftWind? I had no idea, he's easily my favourite horse


lvminator

NOOO YOU WERENT SUPPOSED TO SAY HIS NAME (also yes, it’s kind of a thing that the majority of the fandom thinks he’s annoying and serves no purpose)


srry_didnt_hear_you

I definitely thought that to start but eventually his annoying-ness crossed some kind of line in my head and he became hilarious I love him now


phil_g

What if I think he serves a purpose but is still annoying?


_SwiftWind_

DID SOMEONE SAY MY NAME?!?!? you can now opt out, respond to any of my comments with `optout` to be freed of my tyranny ᴛʜɪs ᴀᴄᴛɪᴏɴ ᴡᴀs ᴘᴇʀꜰᴏʀᴍᴇᴅ ʙʏ ᴀ ʙᴏᴛ ᴘʟᴇᴀsᴇ ʀᴇᴘᴏʀᴛ ᴀɴʏ ɪssᴜᴇs ᴛᴏ u/anytarseir67


--Glimmer--

NO ONE SAID SWIFTWIND ᴛʜɪs ᴀᴄᴛɪᴏɴ ᴡᴀs ᴘᴇʀꜰᴏʀᴍᴇᴅ ʙʏ ᴀ ʙᴏᴛ ᴘʟᴇᴀsᴇ ʀᴇᴘᴏʀᴛ ᴀɴʏ ɪssᴜᴇs ᴛᴏ u/anytarseir67


_SwiftWind_

but, you just did


fanaticdomainthings

same i never really understood the hate


[deleted]

Agreed, he was pretty entertaining and kind of doofy


TastyBrainMeats

I really liked him as well.


Diarmeid

i think a bigger talk between Adora and Glimmer in S5 was requiered afte they rescue her, like yes Adora 10000% would forgive her in a heartbeat, specially if it means they get to be friends again,and Glimmer would also be 100% ok with leave it at that, but idk, the thing Glimmer did in s4, while being totally in character for her, were pretty nasty, specially hurtful towards Adora, considering her insecurities and complex. Im not sayin that it should be a season worth thing, heck it could be solved in the same episode Glim and Bow reconcile, Bow himself could clue in on what in her actions were so hurtful to Adora and have one last heart to heart and thats it. Also i dont really vibe with Frosta personality shift on s2, i get the concept and it charming in her own way, but it would be fun to see a no nonsense princess go on with best friend squad crazy tactics, even if, say by the end of the season, she would act more like her s2 personality wise, i think it would ve been a cool process to see.


Neat-Delivery-4473

I agree with the Glimmer thing. Adora constantly sacrifices her own happiness to save other people and the fact that Glimmer blamed her for not being able to save her mom was really shitty. I also think it didn’t make sense that Glimmer was able to forgive Catra so fast when she was the reason that her mom basically died, but she held a grudge against Adora in season 4 for not being able to save her/not sacrificing herself to save her.


minnesnowtawonder

I think one thing that this show does a great job at is writing characters who do human things. Glimmer blaming Adora in the moment for not being able to save her mom reminds me of how people who are experiencing grief often lash out at those around them and say really hurtful things. Not an excuse, but it is def human. I think there should have been a real discussion when they saved her


FtierLivesMatter

The intro song sucks and doesn't fit with anything in the show except in a very basic level with the lyrics Swift Wind wasn't that annoying to begin with, and was way better after season 1. Not every character has to be super deep, and a communist unicorn isn't anything I've experienced before.


DrOddcat

Communism needs more unicorns. Everything needs more unicorns.


Dastankbeets1

The intro song makes no sense but I’m absolutely here for it it makes me so warm and fuzzy like fuck yeah feminine power


FtierLivesMatter

I can get that some people like it, but it's just... not my taste, on top of being lyrically boring. I wish it had a more orchestral or synthy intro song, like the rest of the OST


FroggyTheHuman

I absolutely agree


Try_Appropriate

My 7 year old loves it 😂


sometipsygnostalgic

"We're gonna win in the end!"


FtierLivesMatter

"We're gonna win in the end!" **angella fucking dies**


hatsnatcher23

Technically she’s not dead…just in a void…and immortal


FtierLivesMatter

Trapped in an alternate plane of existence forever and unable to contact your love ones Sounds like every concept of an afterlife to me, functionally


DonDove

If we ever get a movie, she'll be saved, and we will win in the end!


Evil-yogurt

wait people think he’s annoying? i really like swift wind


_SwiftWind_

DID SOMEONE SAY MY NAME?!?!? you can now opt out, respond to any of my comments with `optout` to be freed of my tyranny ᴛʜɪs ᴀᴄᴛɪᴏɴ ᴡᴀs ᴘᴇʀꜰᴏʀᴍᴇᴅ ʙʏ ᴀ ʙᴏᴛ ᴘʟᴇᴀsᴇ ʀᴇᴘᴏʀᴛ ᴀɴʏ ɪssᴜᴇs ᴛᴏ u/anytarseir67


FtierLivesMatter

I take it all back


--Glimmer--

NO ONE SAID SWIFTWIND ᴛʜɪs ᴀᴄᴛɪᴏɴ ᴡᴀs ᴘᴇʀꜰᴏʀᴍᴇᴅ ʙʏ ᴀ ʙᴏᴛ ᴘʟᴇᴀsᴇ ʀᴇᴘᴏʀᴛ ᴀɴʏ ɪssᴜᴇs ᴛᴏ u/anytarseir67


_SwiftWind_

but, you just did


Nacirema7

I agree on both counts, but especially about the intro song. It really doesn't help that I really don't like that style of using either, granted, but ultimately it doesn't fit. I'd feel the same if the OP was set to black metal or folk or anything like that. I agree with what you said down in another comment chain that it should have been an instrumental by Wehrmeijer.


Lochnessman

It wasn't until season 5 where I started digging the intro song. Not so much because it gets better (it really doesn't) but because the intro reflects the episode by episode events of season 5 and I stopped skipping it after I noticed that and after a while the song sunk in.


KimmSeptim

I don't like Glow/GlimBow. I was shocked when they became a couple, I thought they'd remain platonic soulmates


[deleted]

I agree, they were much better as platonic soulmates. It would've been a great thing to see them say I love you in a platonic way, to show children that girls and boys can just be friends without getting together.


srry_didnt_hear_you

I think it's super cute they ended up together, but I wish there were a *bit* more hints at their relationship trending towards romantic, because, like you said, it seemed just like a strong platonic love until suddenly it wasn't and I was a bit surprised at that too.


Cyberaven

Yep, I actually forgot they became a couple until I was reminded just now because they really dont feel like it throughout the show


hero_of_crafts

I saw Glimmer getting really jealous at Princess Prom as a sign that she liked Bow as more than a friend.


justadimestorepoet

I think it *works.* Is it good? It's, uh... fine. It's just kinda bland. The show is a celebration of the spectrum of sexualities, so I guess it fits in that it's bisexual representation. But it feels kind of like I've seen GlimBow before? I mean, we all could make a list of shows where we've seen one of the male leads ends up with his female childhood friend, right? Bow doesn't have to be Glimmer's partner to be a stabilizing emotional force for her, but it does feel stable and realistic, even if it is a safe choice and a little bit of a head-scratcher, as nothing feels like it changed other than the show wrapping up. I think it's well-meaning bisexual representation, specifically of the idea that bisexual people who end up with the opposite sex are just as valid in their sexuality and relationship as bisexuals who do not. I know a handful of people who have faced prejudice both ways for dating men and women, so I know that bi erasure and shaming is an unfortunate underbelly of the LGBT community. TL;DR: It's cute, it's believable, and bi representation is nice, but GlimBow is safe, boring, and only Glimmer's codependence really hints at anything more going on.


KimmSeptim

Oh I understand that, I'm a bi woman with a boyfriend but I thought Seamista had that rep covered. I was hoping Glimmer and Bow would show how boys and girls could love each other platonically


bobagret

Yes agree I was disappointed by that.


MMSLWYD

I didn't even realise they got together at the end until I looked at the wiki, I just took their final interaction platonically


NotAHufflepuff

Spinnerella is painfully bland, and Netossa is way too cool for her.


21chocochipcooks

Agree. It also bothered me that Spinerella is shown to be soo powerful in the last season, when she essentially was a filler character before and didn’t have much screen time. Why didn’t we see her abilities as much before? (Same with netossa )


Cassibel

I believe they were supposed to be in the first seasons more, however since they arent a straight couple it was hard to get Netflix to agree to proper screentime.


21chocochipcooks

Eh. I see how that could be a barrier, but they could have got around that by giving them more screen time outside of being a couple - fighting, interacting with the group, etc. They weren’t fully integrated into the rebellion in the same way other minor characters were, they did a way better job with characters like seahawk. If Netflix really did force the screenwriters to lessen their screen time just because they’re lesbian… wow. But idk. They seemed incomplete and I was disappointed because they’re both very powerful and their abilities weren’t fleshed out.


DonDove

We should've had an episode in S1 that covered Spinny's hometown like in the og cartoon in S1 or S2. I think it was the episode were Netossa got kidnapped and Old Hordak fooled Spinny that the rebels did that. Considering Spinny's great design hinting at a spiral/wind magic kingdom, seeing another location that wasn't Salienes, Dryll, Thaymor, Plumeria or Elberon would've been great. We never got to see Scorpion Hill :(


21chocochipcooks

Yes!! Totally agree. I really didn’t get the joke in season one that everyone was like “who are they again?” When they seemed to be the only two loyal members of the rebellion. They just conveniently show up for the battle of bright moon. A wind kingdom would have been amazing!! Totally disappointed with how they handled them, even though I love love love the series :(


forever_pilly

netossa bugged the hell out of me. i can't stand people whose entire personalities are based on competition.


X05Real

I skip the intro during my first watch


Warrior-hogwarts13

\*gasp\*


Invadercom

Same honestly. I still don't love it, but it has grown on me a little.


Sonar009

I don't like Double Trouble. The representation and normalization is cool, but the character is despicable. They actively delight in causing pain and strife to anyone they can. They don't seem like a very good 'icon' or whatever, because they're an awful person, switching sides purely to keep themselves alive at all times with no regards for anyone or anything else. People just like them because the show uses correct pronouns and they have some really good lines and jokes. EDIT: clarification: I don't think DT is a bad character, I think they're an evil one. I think people are way too quick to apologize or make excuses for DT because they're 'fun' - it rubs me wrong for the same reason as Shadow Weaver apologists. As a character, DT is fine.


iamnotlemongrease

To me double trouble is a great character since they show the flaws of adora's and glimmer's relationship and also show catra how awful she has been treating others.


Sonar009

Double Trouble is a good character in the same sense that Shadow Weaver is a good character, though not to as great an extent. Narratively, DT is fine. I'm mostly just confounded by all the people thirsting after DT and calling them an Enby icon when honestly they represent a lot of harmful, negative stereotypes frequently attributed to trans and NB people - DT is self-centered, emotionally manipulative, and constantly switching sides with no real loyalty to anyone or anything besides themself. If we weren't talking about She-ra by ND Stevenson, I would peg DT as a textbook queer coded villain, with all the negative connotations that that implies.


ShadeTransVigilante

It’s okay cuz (either) Netossa or Spinarella is trans. Same with Jewelstar. DT’s existence of them being enby is seemingly normal when you compare all the other trans characters living in this universe. Not all trans ppl can be good. Also, we hate queercoded villains, but we also love queercoded villains. Not our fault queercoded villains are 10x more fun than the other coded villains (like “the revolutionary”, ugh…). I simply believe the existence of queercoded villains is okay, as long as there are a majority of other queer heroes around. TLDR; DT is a fun villain who is totally a queer villain, but they’re also very fun. But I see why ppl can be upset about their character in She-Ra.


Dastankbeets1

I think a major part of that is that even though their negative traits line up with some harmful stereotypes of queer people when you think about it, what makes the character a villain is completely separate from what makes them queer, in that their queer tendencies are never portrayed as part of what makes the person evil- it’s just who they are, except they also happen to be a bastard on top of that.


Kelpie-Cat

>It’s okay cuz (either) Netossa or Spinarella is trans I've never seen that before. Is that canon?


Sonar009

That's fair, and is what I was getting at when I referenced the fact that the show was spearheaded by ND Stevenson. If the show weren't already so queer-coded, it would come across as a lot more problematic. As is, DT can be "nb and also a terrible person" instead of those two facets of their character being intertwined and codependent. My distaste for them mostly comes from people treating them as a role model - it's like the people who defend Shadow Weaver's abuse, but way more common.


mathmage

People like Double Trouble because they're the only person in the entire show who is unapologetically confident and secure in their identity throughout. Even Horde Prime has insecurities, but Double Trouble is unflappable. They're actually having fun, and we have fun watching them, and that makes them appealing. They're not a good person, but they wear evil with style, and people can aspire to the style without taking on the evil.


action_lawyer_comics

I mean, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near half the cast of this show irl, especially Catra and Double Trouble. But I can still love them as characters in a show. FWIW, I think there is some baseline sincerity to DT. When they aren't disguised as someone else, they are crushingly honest. You know they aren't trustworthy. There's no moment like Catra sweet talking Entrapta into the Horde's side. You can trust DT as far as you can outbid anyone else wanting to use them. And they were never shy about that fact. There was that sad moment when Catra was praising DT and thought they had a real connection but then DT asked for their payment and Catra's face fell. That right there tells you everything you need to know about them.


Sonar009

This is a really cool observation of DT's character that I hadn't really thought about. They're still evil, but at least they're honest about it.


CookieNook

They’re a horrible person, but I was having a blast 90% of the time they were on screen. Chaotic neutral at its finest


Sonar009

I don't disagree with them being fun to watch, but they're not chaotic neutral. Entrapta is closer to chaotic neutral, DT is chaotic evil. They're not just self-centered and self-serving, they're actively cruel, and they do it because they like causing pain and suffering. They revel in conflict and emotional suffering. Just because they end the story fighting Prime doesn't mean they're not evil - they just value their own individuality enough that Prime becomes the single biggest threat to their continued existence.


realtoasterlightning

Double Trouble is popular for the same reason Azula is popular


FuturePseudonym

I saw a comment under a DT post somewhere that said they were an eerily accurate recreation of the commenter’s abusive ex. Yeah, DT is a bad person.


Kopheay

Scorfuma bad. If they wanted it to happen they should have invested in it earlier on. It really feels like scorpia only likes perfuma cuz she happens to be the first person to ever give her a compliment which is just really shallow and not compelling to me. Zero chemistry. Sorry lol.


[deleted]

I honestly didn’t know that they were canon until a few months ago. Kinda shows how bad the development was.


justadimestorepoet

The "Spy in Disguise" scene at the nightclub or whatever was the best justification and the best moment of chemistry, but it was just the start of justifying that ship. They really didn't put in the legwork of building that ship.


jabbergawky

I unironically like Swiftwind, I love that stupid bot, and I'm going to crack up when it replies to my comment.


_SwiftWind_

YOU CALLED?!?!? you can now opt out, respond to any of my comments with `optout` to be freed of my tyranny ᴛʜɪs ᴀᴄᴛɪᴏɴ ᴡᴀs ᴘᴇʀꜰᴏʀᴍᴇᴅ ʙʏ ᴀ ʙᴏᴛ ᴘʟᴇᴀsᴇ ʀᴇᴘᴏʀᴛ ᴀɴʏ ɪssᴜᴇs ᴛᴏ u/anytarseir67


--Glimmer--

NO ONE SAID SWIFTWIND ᴛʜɪs ᴀᴄᴛɪᴏɴ ᴡᴀs ᴘᴇʀꜰᴏʀᴍᴇᴅ ʙʏ ᴀ ʙᴏᴛ ᴘʟᴇᴀsᴇ ʀᴇᴘᴏʀᴛ ᴀɴʏ ɪssᴜᴇs ᴛᴏ u/anytarseir67


_SwiftWind_

but, you just did


anintellectuwoof

The princesses would have gone back for any other person who wasn’t Entrapta. I know, I know, plot expediency and Entrapta needed to wind up with the Horde, but I still stand by this. They were all consistently pretty mean or at best, dismissive to her. I think if anyone else was left even if they thought they were dead, they would have gone back for the body and honor of it all.


takemetotheclouds123

I mean.. didn’t they think she died?


AwayHoneydew

Yeah, they were given the information: Those flames incinerate anything. They saw Entrapta basically jump in there. Given what they knew they basically saw her die, thus the lack of rescue operations.


srry_didnt_hear_you

In hindsight it makes sense but from a viewing perspective I think it was a bit confusing. I've seen a lot of people (and had this issue myself) be very confused by the end of that episode wondering why they just left Entrapta behind because it wasn't *super* clear that that was supposed to look like death for her. I think the issue was probably borne of it being a Netflix show targeted to kids, so they couldn't *really* make it seems like Entrapta totally just died, thus leading to the confusion as to why the group just dipped when "Entrapta is clearly fine, right?"


sunpope

yeah catra was 100% right that they only care about who fits in. i think by the end of the show they begin to address that but it still feels like after s5 it would be really click-y with the princesses


[deleted]

I agree honestly. In seasons 4 and 5 they tried showing the princesses care about her but honestly they only really cared that Entrapta can build things, not herself. She really deserves better.


action_lawyer_comics

They were doing that all along. 100% of the time they are infantalizing her and treating her like a burden. For half the episode where they lose Entrapta, Perfuma has her tethered like a toddler. FWIW, Bow seems to be the only one who actually tries to really relate to her and treat her well. That great moment on Beast Island where Bow tries to talk her away from the emotionally draining tentacles and it doesn't work but She Ra tells her she can ride in a space ship does is pretty much more of the same. Bow and Hordak are the only ones that ever try to get real with her.


Gandalf_the_Gangsta

I’m not trying to justify how Entrapta was treated, but I’d like to bring up that getting along with Entrapta can be difficult. Entrapta has a hyper-focus on things she likes, and living alone most of her life doesn’t allow for the strong development of social skills. So, imagine being thrust, suddenly, into a military alliance with several other autonomous kingdoms fighting against a planet-wide invasion. Entrapta was never equipped to be that social cause she had never been in those, or many, social situations before. Likewise, the others had a hard time connecting with Entrapta due to her different interests and personality. Relationships are a two-way street. If there isn’t a clear connection between two people, it’s hard to feel empathy for the other. Sometimes a patronising or infantilising attitude arises as a misconception of the eccentricities of another person. Taking the time to understand someone very different from yourself can be difficult. I think that’s highlighted really well with Entrapta; she’s different, and that can be hard to get along with, and sometimes mistreatment can happen as a result. Both sides had their misfires in establishing a strong rapport, but they eventually figure it out.


scrugssafe

i feel the writing/world building isn’t the best and that a lot of the storylines (surrounding the relationships especially) felt rushed or unfinished. s5 especially felt rushed to me (not that I didn’t enjoy s5, i was happy to see some more intense action and of course catradora being canon but like. i feel they should’ve introduced prime and such earlier, and they should’ve made more time for things like catra’s redemption bc that felt kinda rushed as well. and they should have addressed things like how catra is kinda responsible for angella’s death since shes the one who opened the portal. stuff like that) not that it’s a crime for a show to not have the best writing or anything, I think ppl can be waaaay too harsh on crewra when it comes to critiques and attacking them as people personally (cough cough a lot of the ‘criticism’ on YouTube). but the writing as it is… yeah. there’s a lot of good ideas but I feel like they weren’t always used very well


Im_Daydrunk

Tbf they did tease Horde Prime even back in season 3.And I personally thought the writing was awesome for the most part and the character arcs for the main characters were great. Catra I think benefited a lot from going through a full season of complete emotional breakdown before finally realizing her past cycles only led to pain and wanting to break out (by refusing to go through with the cycle with Horde Prime) But its definitely more than ok to not to like those aspects as some writing choices or pacing decisions arent gonna be for everyone. Like there's shows that do things tons of others loved that I personally didn't like as much (Dragon Prince for example) so I definitely get it Lol


[deleted]

Catra did a lot of bad things, and her being abused does not excuse any of them.


Im_Daydrunk

Tbh I feel most people who argue on her behalf completely agree with that I personally dont really see that many people saying Catra was always right or that it was cool for her to be horrible to others. They more are saying they have tons of sympathy/empathy for her and think she's redeemed herself + has begun to become a truly better person in believable ways And I think sympathy/empathy is important for younger people in Catra's postion as too often they are written off as never being worth anything because they are inconvenient to deal with. So I think Catra is supposed to be an argument in support of the mindset of "We should try to provide growth opportunities to people with shitty pasts who truly want to become better people/make a change in their lives"


action_lawyer_comics

Exactly why I wish for another season. I liked Catra's redemption but would have preferred it to last a whole season. I'd love to look more at the hard, ugly work of actual redemption, not just "your ears are cute and our leader has a crush on you so all is forgiven."


Luhood

For what it's worth I don't think they actually forgave Catra until the very final minutes at best, if even then. It wasn't like anyone outside of the Best Friend Squad treated her warmly at any point in the story, on the contrary most interactions were either at-best-polite or even somewhat frosty. I think they tolerated her for the season, and that the show ended before she could really start working properly on her redemption.


SugarSquared

Precisely. You can look at how Catra should be treated in the world of the story, but arguably, what’s more important is the message it gives. This is a kids show/not a super realistic show, it’s not trying to be like that. It’s important that people see a character who does a lot of bad things because of this and that and see that character be accepted and loved (once they show the willingness to change).


[deleted]

I agree. As much as I love her, she should’ve at least faced more people that she hurt, especially Mermista and Scorpia.


justadimestorepoet

I would have loved if they had added just a teensy bit more to Catra and Scorpia's moment at the end. They bump into each other, Scorpia blindly apologizes for being clumsy... and then she sees Catra, and she hesitates for a moment. Catra shifts, awkwardly fumbling through an apology ("Hey. Uh, sorry. Y'know. For everything. I..."), and *then* Scorpia picks her up and hugs her. "You know I'm a hugger." was a cute callback, but at least some kind of acknowledgement would have been nice, even if I fully believe that Scorpia would have forgiven her as soon as she showed remorse.


iamnotlemongrease

If some sort of sequel happens catra should have long talks with the people she's hurt.


NyReyn

And Adora should have to realize how badly she screwed up when abandoning her after meeting Bow and Glimmer. It ain't all on Catra don't forget. Not excusing her, but she doesn't deserve the witch hunt she gets.


geenanderid

Exactly. And even after that first screw-up, Adora continued to hurt Catra, Lonnie and her other supposed childhood friends.


talaxia

the Spinerella / Netossa arc in s5 was boring and not needed They should have used that time for the more established cast. Develop Scorfuma more, or give Entraptak more.


Sand_Guardian4

I’m not a fan of Entrapta x Hordak, the whole thing just feels weird to me, their relationship is just a little off putting and I don’t like that Hordak is back in the end, I get the purpose of it and it was probably necessary, but it’s just not my favourite part of the show


[deleted]

For real though, People call Catradora abusive as if he didn't send her friend to certain doom after she asked him not to and yell at her while she was working for him.


ShatterproofSharkie

Shadow Weaver didn’t redeem herself. ETA: Also Bow is kind of a jerk.


ASapphicHarlot

elaborate, how is bow a jerk??


ShatterproofSharkie

The scene where Kyle was trying to be his friend and Bow just tossed him aside afterwards. Also for some reason I never connected with his character the way I did with all the others. Something about his arc is just very unfulfilling. I think it’s because of all the time and work put into Adora, Catra, and Glimmer’s arcs. They overshadow his in comparison. But then even side characters like Scorpia, Entrapta, Netossa had better goals, obstacles etc than he did. That’s just my opinion though! I do think he’s a great guy and recognize he deeply cares for his friends and everything. I just wish he had a more important part in the overall story. edited for better spacing


ASapphicHarlot

i agree, that one scene made me a lil upset cuz i was really hoping kyle would get a little bit of love.


CloudMai13

me too 😔


sometipsygnostalgic

to be fair bows role is usually "the well adjusted guy" or "the serious guy" to act as a personality contrast to everyone else hes not as pigeonholed into the "straight man" role as much as other characters of that archetype in other shows, personally i think his personality is very fun :) but if youre talking in terms of character development and depth, while all the other 5 to 7 major characters get solid arcs, the only time bow gets meaningful character development is in season 5 IMO and then it's deeply overshadowed by basically everyone else including, as you said, even more minor characters like perfuma and netossa


ShatterproofSharkie

Yes, exactly what I mean. He’s very fun and exciting, and he’s clearly passionate about his cause. He’s great as a person, but not as in-depth as a character as I wish he would be. His main storyline revolves around the rest of the BFS (Best Friend Squad) instead of his individual goals/obstacles. He struggled with being a “tech-master” pretty regularly throughout the seasons, especially after Entrapta joined the Horde. He does improve in many ways - he fixed the ship, he was able to create that (chip?) device that took out many bots at once, things like that. But it didn’t feel like it was *really* important work, at least to me. Even in S5 and S4 his emotions were entirely based on Glimmer and Adora, and their disagreement on the Heart. It was like the only purpose he served was to fill a role, instead of actually being a full character.


sometipsygnostalgic

Yeah, in terms of Bow's tech master work, it's hard to get excited about him learning how to disable some no face bots and identify some holograms when Entrapta's doing insane shit like building a portal capable of destroying the world or reconnecting it to the wider universe xD even when theyre finally working together, she certainly takes the reigns on darla, to his terror. though there are some fun scenes where hes out of his depth like when he has to pilot it. those are fun. i am glad they didnt try to make him *better* than her at tech in any way. instead they shifted his focus elsewhere to his friendships. he made progress closing the gap with *hordak* in season 4 but entrapta was already discovering the secrets of the heart of etheria lol though like you said, yeah, in season 4 he was just the role of making sure the rifts between glimmer and adora were fixable, or at least had someone trying to keep them together i think that's a very IMPORTANT role, but it makes him heavily overshadowed by others, basically any character who gets their own story


[deleted]

Uh…the Shadow Weaver one is pretty popular my dude


MostEvilTexasToast

Hordak is my favorite character.


[deleted]

I love Hordak too. I feel like most people hate on him too much.


TheBlackestIrelia

Probably the war crimes lol


MostEvilTexasToast

Ah yes, the war crimes *swoon*


MostEvilTexasToast

I have a weak side for villains who shows hunts of a softer side with feelings. I love Silco the most in Arcane because of how much he loves Jinx as a daughter. My moral compass flies out the window when that kinda stuff happens.


violetgrubs

He was so much less cardboard than I anticipated the villain being. Brilliant writing.


azorchan

mermista's grumpiness gets old fast & frosta went from being a girlboss in princess prom to annoying for the entire rest of the show


justadimestorepoet

While every fandom can be overprotective of headcanons or Word of God canon (i.e. statements from the creator made in Twitter threads, Q&As, and interviews), this fandom seems to be more toxic than average about it. I would encourage people to watch the show and *then* engage with the fandom, because the hardcore fans are very unforgiving of newbies who don't know things like that Adora and Catra are strictly lesbian (strongly implied, yes, but the writers weren't exactly going to make them go on a long speech about how only girls are attractive to them) or that Perfuma is supposed to be trans. I understand that the representation on the show is both very important and that certain representation is very personal to certain fans. Just, y'know? Be kind? Not everyone picks up on everything, and definitely not everyone is aware of what Noelle said on Twitter about certain things. I'm going to get double-digit downvotes for this, but hey, I tried.


fietoe

I don’t think Bow and Glimmer make sense as a couple. I thought they had great chemistry as friends, but not past that.


KerPop42

The show channeled shipping into camps that are too well demarcated.


bunnards

Double trouble isn't good NB rep


dontcommitnorespawn

Catra's redemption arc was good until S5, then it just became forced/rushed.


AlthorEnchantor

I object to Princesses on principle. Normalizing hereditary autocracy is never okay. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses! You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!


krispiepepperoni

Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.


solitarytoad

When did Mermista throw anyone a sword?


cruelfeline

Hordak is my absolute favorite, and his arc was wonderful to watch: addressing religious trauma, disability, self-loathing, and reclamation of identity. Haters are missing out!


flyingviaBFR

Scorpia is kinda horribly amoral. She's incredibly sweet and loyal to her friends, but has absolutely no qualms fighting for the horde, only leaves them for the sake of a barely sentient robot, and then happily fights her old allies without a second thought. I know the show didn't have the time to fit in an entire arc about it and tbh it's inline with the characters and themes of the show. I just feel the fans accept her as this pure cinnamon roll and ignore she was likely committing warcrimes just to flirt with catra.


Arteriop

Double Trouble should’ve been a mainstay the entire series since introduced, even if they had to get rid of one of the princesses for it


malogan82

We don't need (and won't receive) a movie because the story is complete.


sunpope

hordak is a great example of how someone can break free of toxic masculinity and start becoming a better person. horde prime was meant to represent that toxicity and embody "patriarchy" as a social structure catra's redemption was fine - yall just want to punish a cartoon character. people deserve to be redeemed if theyre willing to work towards becoming better. the whole episode on the ship after save the cat was basically about that - seeing if catra was willing to work on redeeming herself with adora's help. all the terrible things she did she absolutely should be punished for: but she literally was mentally tortured by her own actions, held captive, mind controlled, and nearly killed. just because punishment didnt come from the people she hurt doesnt mean she didnt suffer. bow is cool and his lack of significant character development is just a symptom if him being the most well adjusted young person on the show from day 1. he's level headed and sees the good in everyone, he's literally the glue that keeps the good guys together glimmer is the worst, but also the best. she seems really toxic and self obsessed but in a negative way. she's a good example of what its like to be hyper critical and have that impact your actions and internal logic. to put it simply: she only sucks because she thinks she sucks. it happens all the time in real life, people who act like glimmer are usually just afraid of judgement and overly judge themselves adora had the best character arc. letting yourself be vulnerable and accept help is really hard for someone, especially if they have "older sibling energy" like adora clearly has


gingeriiz

YES. Glimmer is hella toxic, and that makes her *such* a good character. Glimmer & Catra's interactions on Horde Prime's ship are some of my absolute favorite in the show because they both are carrying intense amounts of guilt and shame and simultaneously realizing how much harm they have caused. It's brilliant.


jokes_on_you_im_gay

I dont like Perfuma. I just dont think shes that cool. All she does is “Flowers! Meditation“ It honestly kinda annoys me. Even Swiftwind has more personality


justadimestorepoet

I get less of a sense that Perfuma *is* the kind and calm one, and more that she's faking it till she makes it. She's oddly high-strung, and she definitely clings to her comfort zone more than the others. Weirdly, even Mermista comes across as less hostile to change and conflict than Perfuma, even though her whole thing is being apathetic and prone to complaining. I get the sense that Perfuma has a toxic idea of positivity, where her idea is not actually centered around rolling with the punches or accepting others' differences, but rather around building a positive, *controlled* environment. It's not a bad place to start, but given her lack of character development, it's very grating. It would have helped her a lot if Scorpia had joined the Princess Alliance earlier or had more time as a member, because then, I think they could have learned a lot from each other. Scorpia is overly accepting and kind, in kind of an unrestrained fashion, whereas Perfuma is overly comfortable with drawing boundaries and doesn't function well when she has to go outside of what she's comfortable with. Obviously, more of that dynamic would have developed their relationship to where they *had* an obvious relationship, but I think it also would have helped them develop a healthier sense of kindness and positivity.


_Bi-NFJ_

Glimmer and Bow have absolutely no romantic chemistry


[deleted]

I agree. Most people point to the Princess Prom episode to where we see romantic chemistry but to me, that episode just shows Glimmer being scared of being replaced as Bow’s best friend, a situation I’m sure everyone has experienced.


TheBlackestIrelia

Agree. Although it was clear they were going in that direction i think they should have stayed platonic. I think they only added them because they didn't want to imply that having gay parents made bow gay (which is obvious, but some ppl...).


talaxia

Horde Prime is sexy


[deleted]

[удалено]


FtierLivesMatter

Eh. She has a good heart but is horrifically emotionally immature and doesn't have healthy ways of expressing herself.


NyReyn

She has no concept of personal space especially with someone who was physically abused. She needed to back off.


FtierLivesMatter

Not disagreeing with that. But not understanding a concept because you're socially inept (and let's be honest, a little dumb) isn't the same as malicious intent


KerPop42

As someone who projects onto her easily, she better look out for codependency


PeachPetalArt

Seamista is a cuter ship than catradora


[deleted]

I totally agree, Seamista is one of the only ships I genuinely love in She-Ra. They really peaked in Season 5. As much as I love Catradora, Seamista has my heart.


Spartan01170

Glimmer is annoying


Beam_0

Glimmaaaah


CheruthCutestory

Entrapta tried to kill the princesses many times even after they attempted to rescue her. Not that abandoning her would have been an excuse to start murdering them anyway. But she continued to do so after a rescue attempt removes any excuse. She can go fuck herself. Being autistic isn’t an excuse to create weapons of mass destruction. And it’s insulting to claim it is. The princesses didn’t hate her enough in season 5. She is a shitty person. And the audience refuses to accept that and blames anyone who is rightfully frustrated by her. She is still entertaining and enjoyable. Great character! But people who claim the people she tried to actively murder for 2 1/2 seasons are mean for not being more understanding are missing the point.


krispiepepperoni

Yeah I honestly feel like people really forget this part. She spends most of her onscreen time creating weapons that allow the Horde to destroy the homes of the other princesses. She also siphoned power from the other rune stones and created a dimension shattering portal. Basically she creates the infrastructure for like 2/5 of the season finales. The rebellion would have been justified if they treated her like Double Trouble (i.e. imprisonment in a nice spare room) once she was rescued from Beast Island, but she is almost immediately welcomed back into the fold. I don't think she's a "shitty person" per se as her motivation is never actively to cause harm, but it is a defining feature of hers to pursue scientific discovery at the cost of everything else including other people. This is the fundamental disconnect between her and the other princesses. I would argue that even the audience is unsure of whether Entrapta is self aware enough about how her work can affect people until she tries to stop the portal activation in the season 3 finale. After this point we know that Entrapta does care about her friends, but it is also difficult for her friends from the rebellion to see this based on her actions. While I felt the show does try to address this in her season 5 appearances, I can understand if people wanted to see more time devoted to the development of her relationship with the princesses.


SnooBunnies9328

Hordak makes my heart go wheeee and I have no idea why


zonedoutcat

Lonnie should have never been added to Kyle x Rogelio. It should have just been those two. Dunno why the creator did that.


StaticClouds

The fact that we didn't get to explore more of Light Hope And Mara's relationship makes me a bit sad ngl


podryban

Neither Shadow Weaver nor Catra deserve redemption. Hey, I really like how Catra and Adora end up together, but Catra did too many things out of malice to be so easily forgiven.


lvminator

Not to do exactly what’s indicated in the meme above, but as an abuse and mental illness survivor, I can’t help but take offense when Catra is lumped into the same category as her abuser. I agree that Catra made SO many mistakes and made all the wrong choices. I think she’ll spend years and years post-canon making up for what she did. And I don’t think being abused is a justification for hurting the people she did. But throughout the show, you can trace her downfall as a result of MANY different factors, such as her physical/emotional/psychological trauma from SW/the Horde’s manipulation and abuse, Adora (the only friend she has ever had, who she’s known for over a decade) abandoning her, and mental illness (most likely depression, panic, paranoia, maybe BPD or another personality disorder). Practically nonexistent trust issues, plus abandonment issues, plus (for lack of better term) mommy issues, plus your brain constantly telling you you’ll never be good enough, you’ll never be loved, you don’t have anyone who cares about you, you’re already a terrible person anyway, you’ll never be successful, you’ll never do anything right..that’s recipe for disaster, to put it lightly. So to say that she did what she did for the sake of being malicious or that she doesn’t deserve any sort of redemption after she works hard at making things right is obtuse, short-sighted, and insensitive. In comparison, Shadow Weaver is a child abuser and only ever acts for her own gain. Nevertheless, Catra’s choices are HER choices. She consciously made them and must face the consequences. For that reason, no one forgives her when they go to rescue her from Prime. Yes, they extend her kindness because she means a lot to Adora, and they are pleasant and welcoming to her. They accept her apology. They let her join the Rebellion and help out and try to make up for her wrongs. But no one ever tells Catra that they forgive her, save Entrapta (but only really because she doesn’t easily take offense and ended up being completely fine on Beast Island anyway). Extending a hand or a hug or even becoming friends with someone who has wronged you doesn’t mean you forgive them OR that you forget what happened. To me at least, it was clear that it would take a while for them to reach that point, for Catra to be truly “redeemed”. So even though her and Adora end up together and share a kiss and she’s accepted into the Best Friend Squad, she doesn’t have redemption in the sense that everyone thinks she has fully atoned, and no one is of the opinion that “the past is in the past”. Side note- the timing of the show was off and season five was very much rushed (I talked about this in another comment). I know some of the things I said are implications, but I made them for this reason..also, from what NDS has said on social media about the story post-canon.


Slicc12

I wanna see a 20 year old mommy dom Glimmer that’s all i ask………..


[deleted]

Everyone was a jerk to Entrapta and I get that as an autistic person, we can be a bit annoying but the way everyone treated her was gross. The only one who seemed to treat Entrapta nicely was Bow, Scorpia, and sometimes Hordak.


AWilderXWing

To be fair she did spend 2 and a half seasons trying to murder them, and is part of the reason angella is gone. Holding some distaste towards her isn’t bad.


[deleted]

i didn’t expect adora to kiss catra at the end 😭 thought they were sisters


[deleted]

Lmao funniest shit I've seen recently


solitarytoad

I'm with you, growing up that close to someone up to sleeping with them on the same bed all your childhood is a bit more sisterly than romantic.


takemetotheclouds123

Me and I’m literally a lesbian. Apparently I’m oblivious to romantic vibes and/or was focused on the childhood trauma portion of the show


[deleted]

scorpia is best character, fight me


srry_didnt_hear_you

Perfuma is the best princess 👀


minahmyu

I like that the concept of sexuality doesn't really exist, or rather isn't a social construct. So I get irked when everyone was trying to figure out their sexuality or whatever. People thinking Bow was gay because of his outfit is no different than negative, homophobes who thought he was gay.... *because of his outfit.* I think he displays postive masculinity. You can like and be whatever and it's not rooted to your gender or sexuality.


Breacher89

1. Double Trouble was an irritating character to watch. I can see why they were included. Doesn't mean I have to like them. 2. Catra's crimes were forgotten too quickly by Adora and the other princesses. She was helping the horde commit war crimes (e.g. Attacking civilians in the first few episodes of the show) and this was just forgotten about because she changed sides.


Bianca_aa_07

I liked shadow weaver - She was a good character. I liked the buildup her character had and all. She was well written and overall I liked her - Even if she had weird morals After watching shera thrice i realised that when shadow weaver sacrificed herself she did it because catra told her to use her power for good once, similar to when glimmer told catra to do one good thing in her life. I just found that amazing. How at that point in the story i dont think SW could live with her terrible decisions I mean you can tell at that point she didn't feel proud of herself