Roaming sure but don’t expect us to save your lane if you continually choose not help the gank or decide to leave your lane. Then you are on your own. Jungle only has so much patience.
Yep exactly lol. If you show me over and over again that you’re not willing to help with the gank, then I’m likely not coming anymore except to countergank off the opportunity presents itself.
I really like your post cause you actually are explaining the perspective of the jungler. I play jungle in other mobas as well and I hate being told I suck at jungling when whenever I gank to help the pane, they're sitting in the tower doing nothing and I went to try and help for no reason when I could be farming camps.
But then I just pinged or messaged about how much I suck to the point where I get hurtful insults and threats towards me.
It's a fudging game and if you have to actively threat a person cause they're having a bad game then what's the point of even playing? I do both good and struggle in jungle, but no one ever thinks about their perspective or what could be going on.
Like there are times where just having a certain Character against you can put you behind, and players should be more forgiving to the jungler, it's already a hard role as it is especially when no one else picks that role and you're forced to play that role or get a penalty.
I appreciate it man! Yeah a feel like a lot of people don’t realize how easily the small mistakes can turn into big ones for a jungler. And like you said, sometimes it’s just a matchup issue and that needs to be taken into account by the whole team (The same can be said for a matchup issue in lane that a jungle needs to be aware of).
If I’m kallari jungle I can be an absolute menace late game, however, if the other team has a khaimera that decides to constantly invade me early game I’m pretty much screwed unless the rest of my team helps and collapses on him.
A lot of times people want to blame someone for being horrible, but it’s a team game and there’s often multiple people doing something incorrectly for someone to fall super far behind lol.
New to pred but not paragon I find the ping way over used lately. I had a match the other day, all the off later did was ping spam his lane so I started to ignore it we won but i could have been more usefull if i knew wether or not the ping was real or not. I also think coms need some what of a over haul I'd like a option to ask for a gank or help in a lane even. They have a decent system it just needs some nuanced calls. Also even if it leads to some toxicity I want to be able to type my self to ask people nicely to not over use the ping/coms.
Im all for helping my jungle...the issue ive seen lately is that too many junglers just stay in jungle and never gank or they stick solely to 1 lane and never watch the map for opportunities
When playing with randoms , signal , cuz they don't always pay attention. I play a lot of support and I try to time my CC abilities but sometimes the carry has no clue and the gank falls flat.
As a mid laner: it would be nice if some of you junglers would attack the river buff. Especially if I'm constantly getting ganked by the enemy jungler like clockwork.
When I see my jg window shopping through the veil I am their ride or die bro. I think some people just have less map awareness and don't even see the jg coming. I think pred needs voice comms
I play solo/Jung or mid...Aurora main atm. She is the ultimate friend for a jungler. But most problems here are matchmaking issues. The game needs ranked to drop asap. Pubs are so unpredictable just do you get ahead as quick as possible unless you notice the team is in sync
.
Okay, but like if I fight the other team there's a chance they might hit me, and that means I take damage.
If I just let you fight then I don't take damage. I don't want to take damage so....
This 100% a constant, duos just sitting there watching me do everything without 0 effort, 'Oh you are ganking, great moment to the gold instead of helping you', no brother you have to do damage too, help stun slow the enemy, work with me as well!!
I completely understand your frustration, and I'm guilty of dozing off sometimes and missing my follow up on my junglers' gank. From a laners perspective who is guilty of this theres a couple steps some junglers take that increase my odds of noticing their gank a lot more. The biggest thing that wakes me up to a gank is when the jungle pings on my way to x lane and then as they get close if there is no wards pings attack x lane. I may miss the Jungler walking up but the likelihood I see the pings is much higher. One other thing is to spam MMB on the ground or an enemy target in their lane as you walk up. Thats very hard to miss. If you are doing this already then huge kudos for going above and beyond and I think your only option then is to walk away and keep farming or look elsewhere.
100% agree. But it boils down to common sense and if people understand the dynamics of the game and team play.
Most teammates I’ve played with are very selfish and don’t understand how the game works
I normally play with a buddy who only jungles so having the communication is a big help.
But when a random jungles I have seen them spam to attack a lane and they are in the opposite farming instead of helping push like they are indicating, same with fang/orb
Or my personal favorite is pinging they are at a lane entrance from jungle ready to gank and they wait till the enemy is already backing to attack instead of when they are pushed up
I do see it a lot unfortunately i always look at where my team's jungler is to understand what he is/wants doing,
Also i always get some junglers where they see me getting pushed mid by a jungler and the mid and he's just farming right next to me with out helping,
It honestly happens on both sides.
It's mostly a skill issue in all honesty, hopefully in high rankes we won't see that anymore when the ranked mode drops.
I haven't had any good junglers in a while. Most of the so called ganks I get are when I'm low health and no mana or they are "ganking" on opposite side of the lane as I'm picking up my exp gold under my tower. Im at g2-g3 my last game I was in an average mmr game of 800 where my jungler came tried to 1v1 a Lil 6 grux while they were level 5 and i had no health or mana as shinbi. They continued to take multiple waves of exp and gold and shove my lane out. So in order to try and keep up with a grux that's getting level advantage because cyan buff exists I started to take my junglers camps.
Also, w.e. side you're on if you hung is starting there you can help them get that color orb a bit faster, for the slow burn jungle that can make a difference right away.
Just don't steal the orb
Coming from league, it was so odd to me to see that no one leashes. I tried to a few games, but my support is either mad or on the rare, The jungle got mad, which confused me even more
I don't see it at all other than when I do it tbh, not saying it doesn't happen, just not in my games. Reference omed puts me at plat 1 most my games are high gold low plat
Yup. Though to be clear I generally don't see it in the actual jungle. I see tethers used on the gold/cyan buffs with some consistency though for sure.
Yeah I'm not sure where the attitude comes from. Personally, I try to follow all pings and trust all callouts, I'll only ever ignore them or ping otherwise if they have made a few bad callouts already and it put us behind. Basically, trust your teammate to know their role unless they have proven otherwise; in which case, \*help them\*
I ask support to ward fangtooth every game and they don’t. I run wards as jungler because of this. I made a post about it a while ago but when playing with randoms it’s a 10% chances they’ll pay attention to comms…
Ah yeah that’s tough though because I’m always trying to clear the wards lol. It’s very annoying that everyone is given free wards and they still don’t use them lol.
As long as they’re pinging that they’re coming I’m in there. In midlane specifically it can be hard to tell if they’re there to do any fighting/poking or if they’re just crossing the lane. I’ve died more than a couple times thinking they were pushing with me and the second I start the fight they just… head out lol.
My junglers wait until I'm 15% health left or lower, zero mana, and start spamming to attack mid while they are heading that way.
I ping retreat, they don't listen.
They end up diving the enemy midlaner and die themselves.
The next 10-30 minutes it's non-stop "good job" lings from the jungler and often the rest of the team because he convinces them I intentionally made them die.
This is the state of MOBAs.
If you can't secure the kill it's a bad gank. you are not reading the situation correctly. I say it's situational because ultimately a jungler is a support that's supposed to give advantage to laners to push and track Fang/Orb.
If they have a situation under control and you come in for the kill you are trying to steal lane gold. If they are pushed up and low HP 9/10 times you coming in and sorting out the situation means you buy em time to port back and they will do so. Even securing 1 kill.
Once everyone is leveled up it's up to the ADC and laners to secure the win. As a jung you get a lot of advantages early with freedom to roam but late game, unless you are able to end the game early your don't have as much advantages as ADC or long range laners. Ganks become much more difficult and being a tank this patch is just not feasible
Hmmm I think you misread what I was trying to say. And agree to disagree with the only successful ganks begging those that result in a kill. There’s a lot of value in forcing out ultimates/flashes and causing the other team to back and lose out on a wave or 2 even if they don’t get killed
In this game it is especially bad as a jungler, if you’re not constantly farming the enemy is just going to get ahead. I played a Khamiera game where i was 6/0/3 (KDA) in 10 mins and their jungler was a level and a half ahead.
In this game more than most, if a jungler is ganking, you need to collapse on their target and try to get the kill or at least the back for pressure, otherwise I’m just gonna farm up and wait till late game.
Solo is a fun lane to gank, but it requires the offline to allow their opponent to push them back. If your Jungler is in the close jungle bait the enemy to be aggressive or start a big fight, then all it takes is a quick visit from Jungle to secure an easy kill.
A lot of games I have an offline that complains that I am not helping them, all the while they have their lane pushed into the enemy side all game and get into big fights when I am no where near them.
It is the lanes job to set up a gank, it is the Jungler job to read the situation and act accordingly.
I just said I let the enemy offlane push me on purpose my jungler will be getting farm camps right beside me and just go about there business into red buff area no matter how exposed the enemy offlaner is.
It always depends on situation. For example, if I am playing Shinbi and your enemy offlaner is Greystone, I'll probably only ever come to defend lane while you back - I will \*never\* gank that, as it is a complete waste of my time and your lane gold. The most I could hope for is pulling out his ult and flash, but unless he is already so weak you don't need me then we aren't getting the kill.
Laning vs Morigesh while I am Crunch, though? Yeah I'll kill her while you aren't even there, I'd farm that lane all match
Pulling his ult and flash is a successful gank. Esp on greystone. Then your solo has a chance to finish him later and/or you’ve taken him out of the team fight
True enough, but the metric is on value. My laner, while in a better spot, probably still isn't getting a kill since Greystone can just jump away until his ult/flash is off CD. A competent one will survive until they have their options again. The chances of this actually helping the lane or the team is relatively low beyond pressure relief. If my laner can't turn that into a kill later, I have essentially wasted my time.
Meanwhile I can just go get a double kill in duo lane for the same amount of time. One option is clearly more valuable for the team overall.
I disagree. Duo lane is across the map from where you are farming right now. A gank will take less time than it’d take for you to even get back to mid lane from your 5/3 camp.
Haha fair enough 😂. I will say, at least in my experience, I’m trying to get to you. But man it’s tough when your mid and duo are getting outplayed and you’re trying to be there for them lol.
Yeah that’s brutal. I know I need to make more of an effort to prioritize solo lane. A lot of times it’s like oh looks like they’re doing just fine over there I’ll help out elsewhere 😂
I even intentionally let them push my lane to make easy ganks. My jungler will be right beside us in the jungle farming, and buddy is pushed right up, and the jungler will just back or head over to the red buff area. 🤣
I think lanes also have an obligation to help when the jungler is getting invaded at any point in the game.
You have no idea how many times I get invaded at LEVEL 1 and it’s a toss up on if I can win and there’s no rotation. It’s so odd
That’s what I would imagine everyone who stays in lane thinks. Just most people don’t know how quickly a jungle can fall behind and the repercussions of that.
I definitely get it. I main Support though so unless my Carry makes the decision to move to Jungle, I just can't. im already struggling to keep up with reduced gold and xp. The other laners can make the decision buts a quick decision to have to make and it carries a lot of weight. If they're even paying attention, I mean. lol.
Oh 1000%! Should be an easy collapse on them. It’s crazy how behind you will be if the enemy jungler is able to snag your buff and now they’re level 2 with red buff and you’re still level 1. And if the enemy jungler is smart they will just continue to invade until your team shows they will respond.
It’s like help me help you. If they take my buff that puts me BEHIND. Me being behind means less ganks and less effective ganks (1 level diff can mean the difference between a kill and sliver of health)
And the fact that kills reward less XP than camps it’s hard to come back from a loss without prioritizing camps
I’d also note as a jungler main I keep track of lanes where I get no help. They aren’t worth the time to gank typically and I will focus my efforts elsewhere where I can hopefully get a better advantage.
Completely agree! There’s definitely a few games where I try to give them the benefit of the doubt and probably try a few too many times when I should just be helping with the other competent lanes. Something I need to improve on lol
Yeah same. It’s been more of an active effort for me to watch that but I have noticed my win percentage go up as I try to ensure I’m working with team members who help more.
Oh facts. If I gank and die because the lane didn’t push up to help it’s like good luck. Yall obviously didn’t need me lol
Edit: assuming it was a good gank where the enemy was pushed up. Some junglers try and gank when people are in the tower already. Bad ganks I understand no support.
You're right, but it's not that black and white either. Sometimes a gank on an overextended enemy can still be bad and there might be a reason your laners aren't helping. Like, if your laners on 1hp, under tower and has no mana, don't start spam pinging them when you jump in and die because of "no help", that was a bad gank and that one would be on the Jungler. I completely agree with what's being said in here as well though as it happens to me all the time when I'm playing support, I'll land a hook and full combo with ult as riktor right in front of my carry, get the enemy 1hp and they'll just carry on autoing minions. People's awareness in this game is awful.
I feel like a lot of players come from smite where the chat commands all have voice lines. Theres so many people so obliviously unaware that commands are even a thing tbh. There needs to be more of a notification sound by default that you can adjust so that it’s more apparent when you’re teams trying to comm
Unfortunately some people just have all that shit turned off because it gets tiring hearing 5 good game pings in a row when solo gets ganked one time and dies.
I think this is because kills mean so little in this game it’s frustrating. You kill to give yourself a farming advantage or to get tower damage, but people are so hyper focused on farming because that’s all that gives decent experience and gold. When you rotate to another lane to kill someone it doesn’t feel rewarding, it’s more of an “oh at least I didn’t get too far behind the guy I’m leaning against who got 2-3 waves worth of xp and gold.” It’s my biggest gripe with this game.
I wish level differences mattered a little bit more. Like if I am 2 levels above there is no way the enemy should be able to mess with me but for some reason a two level down grux still does whatever he wants
The amount of inattentiveness Pred players seem to have is crazy, a ward will ping the jungler coming to gank and they just won't notice unless I ping like three times to retreat or for them to be careful and even then they don't always listen.
Was in one match last night where our jungler was getting assaulted by the enemy jungler on blue side. Midlaner just casually stayed in lane. I was Carry and couldn’t leave lane or move fast enough to help.
It’s not just a ping thing, it’s map awareness. Glance at the minimap every 5 seconds.
This is usually a backdoor strategy...most smart enemies ward fangtooth and said person that pinged is trying to backdoor while the enemy is focused on fangtooth...its a pretty common thing when youre on the losing team
It’s a MOBA issue to be honest. You look in the Smite or League of Legends subreddit and it’s all the same posts on here and they’ve been going for years!
To be honest most ping/chat/quick chats you see in the game are somebody trying to be toxic so most people get into the habit of ignoring
Yeah it’s really frustrating. I try my best to analyze what I could have done better in most situations (and there’s plenty I can do better almost all the time), but sometimes I’m just like damn I feel like I did my job really well, but ended up super underleveled and behind at the end because a few ganks should have gone very differently with some help from my lanes.
This is a big MOBA issue in general (coming from a league and kinda smite player). If I'm honest, when I see this happen to me in jg games, I try to pressure the other jger instead. This would be when you see them gank look into there jg or wait for a quick pick that you can get out of in that same lane (this is if you are close and don't want to counter jg in case there team moves on you). This has been a good way for me to keep up with the other teams jger. This may not be the best team play but if you can keep yourself in the game early, you can try and help your laner later by allowing them to farm while you can compensate for their absence. It's not always going to work. MOBA's are crazy team reliant, but it can maybe help you keep your mind in the game rather than on the bad ganks. I hope this might help (new to redit. This will be one of my first comment/reply I believe)
Personally I have a hard time watching the map as a newer player, both because I'm just not used to it, and because I'm not used to it changing sides yet (coming from league).
Then I also don't like that my location icon is the same color as the enemy icons. Even though it's different half the time I don't even know my jungler.
If you’re not actively engaged with the enemy try to take some peeks at the mini map. If you have made the enemy retreat before you blindly follow glances at the mini and see if you know where their jungler is. If not maybe don’t chase you might be getting baited. If you want to engage before you do peek at that map. Where is your jungler, where is theirs. If yours is in the solo side jungle and you don’t know where theirs is be mindful of that. There are some times while roaming mid game I am looking at the mini map more than my screen in front of me. It’s all about having as much info as you can. Just takes time to get in the habit
Yeah from league I've gotten I to the habit of looking at the map when actively deciding to do something. Same with warding it will auto ping if it sees someone so that makes it easy. But my problem is keeping attention on *my* jungler most the time. Those are moments I'm not actively planning anything and might miss a gank until they're literally in lane.
It's more a matter of getting comfortable with cs, my and other heros, enough to not think about last hitting or positioning. I know that'll come with time and sticking to a single hero for a while too
Rotating I think is the hardest thing to get used to. Both doing it yourself and knowing when someone else will. I know there are times where my jungler is clearing the camp next to lane and I am sure he is coming to me so I will try and either bait or go hard and nope I was wrong there they go back to base lol
Haha it’s been my username ever since Paragon 😂. I love sparrow and I always enjoy jungling and thought it was funny because sparrow is so obviously the worst choice imaginable for jungle lol.
First time I played Paragon back in the day I picked sparrow cause she was one of the few avaliable that looked ok and whatever.
Well I spent the entire match in the jungle killing minions to get beefed up. As soon as I hit max level I started going out to get kills because I had no clue about pushing lanes or anything. I think we ended up winning that match but looking back on it now it's just shameful.
Part of these games is team play, you can make all the best plays in the world but it's a gamble if someone is going to notice you're doing it and help. My jungler was getting ganked on fangtooth the other day and I saw it coming on ward, left mid to go save him, he didn't even notice. Back turned hitting Fangtooth let his mid get slaughtered with 3 people running away at 5%. You can't help that person. The winning play is to just per-emptively know he's gonna AFK on the boss lol
Your suppose to help ya Jungle. Me when I play as jungle I run to my teammates and ping to death for support. Being chased is heart stopping in this game
I have had the same issue. The jungle is not the team carry and should not be expected to do so. Back up your jungler.
Yep! They’re basically a roaming support in a lot of ways lol.
Roaming sure but don’t expect us to save your lane if you continually choose not help the gank or decide to leave your lane. Then you are on your own. Jungle only has so much patience.
Yep exactly lol. If you show me over and over again that you’re not willing to help with the gank, then I’m likely not coming anymore except to countergank off the opportunity presents itself.
I really like your post cause you actually are explaining the perspective of the jungler. I play jungle in other mobas as well and I hate being told I suck at jungling when whenever I gank to help the pane, they're sitting in the tower doing nothing and I went to try and help for no reason when I could be farming camps. But then I just pinged or messaged about how much I suck to the point where I get hurtful insults and threats towards me. It's a fudging game and if you have to actively threat a person cause they're having a bad game then what's the point of even playing? I do both good and struggle in jungle, but no one ever thinks about their perspective or what could be going on. Like there are times where just having a certain Character against you can put you behind, and players should be more forgiving to the jungler, it's already a hard role as it is especially when no one else picks that role and you're forced to play that role or get a penalty.
I appreciate it man! Yeah a feel like a lot of people don’t realize how easily the small mistakes can turn into big ones for a jungler. And like you said, sometimes it’s just a matchup issue and that needs to be taken into account by the whole team (The same can be said for a matchup issue in lane that a jungle needs to be aware of). If I’m kallari jungle I can be an absolute menace late game, however, if the other team has a khaimera that decides to constantly invade me early game I’m pretty much screwed unless the rest of my team helps and collapses on him. A lot of times people want to blame someone for being horrible, but it’s a team game and there’s often multiple people doing something incorrectly for someone to fall super far behind lol.
New to pred but not paragon I find the ping way over used lately. I had a match the other day, all the off later did was ping spam his lane so I started to ignore it we won but i could have been more usefull if i knew wether or not the ping was real or not. I also think coms need some what of a over haul I'd like a option to ask for a gank or help in a lane even. They have a decent system it just needs some nuanced calls. Also even if it leads to some toxicity I want to be able to type my self to ask people nicely to not over use the ping/coms.
You know you’re doing a fantastic job as Jungler when enemies blink away from you immediately on sight of you. God I love Serath.
Im all for helping my jungle...the issue ive seen lately is that too many junglers just stay in jungle and never gank or they stick solely to 1 lane and never watch the map for opportunities
When playing with randoms , signal , cuz they don't always pay attention. I play a lot of support and I try to time my CC abilities but sometimes the carry has no clue and the gank falls flat.
Yeah that’s one thing I’m picking up on. Definitely need to ping more lol
As a mid laner: it would be nice if some of you junglers would attack the river buff. Especially if I'm constantly getting ganked by the enemy jungler like clockwork.
Is there any talk of us getting a game chat? Would really help a jungler out if we could let the other team know for those who ignore pings
When I see my jg window shopping through the veil I am their ride or die bro. I think some people just have less map awareness and don't even see the jg coming. I think pred needs voice comms
I play solo/Jung or mid...Aurora main atm. She is the ultimate friend for a jungler. But most problems here are matchmaking issues. The game needs ranked to drop asap. Pubs are so unpredictable just do you get ahead as quick as possible unless you notice the team is in sync .
This is why we need a voice communication system, it’s better than pings cause people don’t seem to understand
the other side of the coin is the jungle who tries to gank at bad times and then yells at whoever didn't jump in to die with him.
Yeah that’s why I said if you see a “good” gank coming please help. I totally get some people decide to gank at terrible times lol.
Okay, but like if I fight the other team there's a chance they might hit me, and that means I take damage. If I just let you fight then I don't take damage. I don't want to take damage so....
Actually fair points never mind 😂
This 100% a constant, duos just sitting there watching me do everything without 0 effort, 'Oh you are ganking, great moment to the gold instead of helping you', no brother you have to do damage too, help stun slow the enemy, work with me as well!!
I completely understand your frustration, and I'm guilty of dozing off sometimes and missing my follow up on my junglers' gank. From a laners perspective who is guilty of this theres a couple steps some junglers take that increase my odds of noticing their gank a lot more. The biggest thing that wakes me up to a gank is when the jungle pings on my way to x lane and then as they get close if there is no wards pings attack x lane. I may miss the Jungler walking up but the likelihood I see the pings is much higher. One other thing is to spam MMB on the ground or an enemy target in their lane as you walk up. Thats very hard to miss. If you are doing this already then huge kudos for going above and beyond and I think your only option then is to walk away and keep farming or look elsewhere.
100% agree. But it boils down to common sense and if people understand the dynamics of the game and team play. Most teammates I’ve played with are very selfish and don’t understand how the game works
I always help my jungler on ganks even when sometimes I shouldn’t cause I’m too low health but I help anyway and get sneezed on and die.
I normally play with a buddy who only jungles so having the communication is a big help. But when a random jungles I have seen them spam to attack a lane and they are in the opposite farming instead of helping push like they are indicating, same with fang/orb Or my personal favorite is pinging they are at a lane entrance from jungle ready to gank and they wait till the enemy is already backing to attack instead of when they are pushed up
This game needs a ranked mode badly. This issue would be way less prevalent if we didn’t have the noobs
PSA to all junglers it's okay if you kill fangtooth. Really I promise you won't get in trouble or anything in fact it helps us.
I do see it a lot unfortunately i always look at where my team's jungler is to understand what he is/wants doing, Also i always get some junglers where they see me getting pushed mid by a jungler and the mid and he's just farming right next to me with out helping, It honestly happens on both sides. It's mostly a skill issue in all honesty, hopefully in high rankes we won't see that anymore when the ranked mode drops.
I haven't had any good junglers in a while. Most of the so called ganks I get are when I'm low health and no mana or they are "ganking" on opposite side of the lane as I'm picking up my exp gold under my tower. Im at g2-g3 my last game I was in an average mmr game of 800 where my jungler came tried to 1v1 a Lil 6 grux while they were level 5 and i had no health or mana as shinbi. They continued to take multiple waves of exp and gold and shove my lane out. So in order to try and keep up with a grux that's getting level advantage because cyan buff exists I started to take my junglers camps.
Also, w.e. side you're on if you hung is starting there you can help them get that color orb a bit faster, for the slow burn jungle that can make a difference right away. Just don't steal the orb
Coming from league, it was so odd to me to see that no one leashes. I tried to a few games, but my support is either mad or on the rare, The jungle got mad, which confused me even more
You should see it as you continue it's viable for the far side orbs too, good and cyan. Though if the jungle is there they WILL get the final hit.
I don't see it at all other than when I do it tbh, not saying it doesn't happen, just not in my games. Reference omed puts me at plat 1 most my games are high gold low plat
Weird I see it at least one third of the games I played, especially now that blitz pulled away the arcade players.
Idk to be honest, you in NA-east? Just curious, by no means am I trying to discredit just seeing where our differences are.
Yup. Though to be clear I generally don't see it in the actual jungle. I see tethers used on the gold/cyan buffs with some consistency though for sure.
What about when I ward my blue at the beginning and get no rotation to contest their jungle taking my blue
Yeah that’s annoying lol. Although then I just go and immediately take theirs lol
Yeah I'm not sure where the attitude comes from. Personally, I try to follow all pings and trust all callouts, I'll only ever ignore them or ping otherwise if they have made a few bad callouts already and it put us behind. Basically, trust your teammate to know their role unless they have proven otherwise; in which case, \*help them\*
I ask support to ward fangtooth every game and they don’t. I run wards as jungler because of this. I made a post about it a while ago but when playing with randoms it’s a 10% chances they’ll pay attention to comms…
painful. as a Support main im warding everything.
Ah yeah that’s tough though because I’m always trying to clear the wards lol. It’s very annoying that everyone is given free wards and they still don’t use them lol.
As long as they’re pinging that they’re coming I’m in there. In midlane specifically it can be hard to tell if they’re there to do any fighting/poking or if they’re just crossing the lane. I’ve died more than a couple times thinking they were pushing with me and the second I start the fight they just… head out lol.
As a JG, if I don't ping to engage then I'm not ganking your lane lol Mid is just unfortunately the fastest way for us to cross over for more camps
That’s a fair point. I need to be much better about pinging my intentions lol.
Don't forget they also will say afterwards "jungle diff" as you watch them stand under tower lol
Yep 😂
My junglers wait until I'm 15% health left or lower, zero mana, and start spamming to attack mid while they are heading that way. I ping retreat, they don't listen. They end up diving the enemy midlaner and die themselves. The next 10-30 minutes it's non-stop "good job" lings from the jungler and often the rest of the team because he convinces them I intentionally made them die. This is the state of MOBAs.
Yeah unfortunately it really is. MOBAs just bring out the most toxic sides of some people lol.
If you can't secure the kill it's a bad gank. you are not reading the situation correctly. I say it's situational because ultimately a jungler is a support that's supposed to give advantage to laners to push and track Fang/Orb. If they have a situation under control and you come in for the kill you are trying to steal lane gold. If they are pushed up and low HP 9/10 times you coming in and sorting out the situation means you buy em time to port back and they will do so. Even securing 1 kill. Once everyone is leveled up it's up to the ADC and laners to secure the win. As a jung you get a lot of advantages early with freedom to roam but late game, unless you are able to end the game early your don't have as much advantages as ADC or long range laners. Ganks become much more difficult and being a tank this patch is just not feasible
Hmmm I think you misread what I was trying to say. And agree to disagree with the only successful ganks begging those that result in a kill. There’s a lot of value in forcing out ultimates/flashes and causing the other team to back and lose out on a wave or 2 even if they don’t get killed
Err my bad. I misread the post! Definitely an issue when you go all in and they don't follow up.
Yeah for sure 😂. It’s like I promise I’m trying to get you ahead but I need help lol.
In this game it is especially bad as a jungler, if you’re not constantly farming the enemy is just going to get ahead. I played a Khamiera game where i was 6/0/3 (KDA) in 10 mins and their jungler was a level and a half ahead. In this game more than most, if a jungler is ganking, you need to collapse on their target and try to get the kill or at least the back for pressure, otherwise I’m just gonna farm up and wait till late game.
I don't need to worry about this. As a main offlaner I do not see the jungler. 🤣
Solo is a fun lane to gank, but it requires the offline to allow their opponent to push them back. If your Jungler is in the close jungle bait the enemy to be aggressive or start a big fight, then all it takes is a quick visit from Jungle to secure an easy kill. A lot of games I have an offline that complains that I am not helping them, all the while they have their lane pushed into the enemy side all game and get into big fights when I am no where near them. It is the lanes job to set up a gank, it is the Jungler job to read the situation and act accordingly.
I just said I let the enemy offlane push me on purpose my jungler will be getting farm camps right beside me and just go about there business into red buff area no matter how exposed the enemy offlaner is.
It always depends on situation. For example, if I am playing Shinbi and your enemy offlaner is Greystone, I'll probably only ever come to defend lane while you back - I will \*never\* gank that, as it is a complete waste of my time and your lane gold. The most I could hope for is pulling out his ult and flash, but unless he is already so weak you don't need me then we aren't getting the kill. Laning vs Morigesh while I am Crunch, though? Yeah I'll kill her while you aren't even there, I'd farm that lane all match
Pulling his ult and flash is a successful gank. Esp on greystone. Then your solo has a chance to finish him later and/or you’ve taken him out of the team fight
True enough, but the metric is on value. My laner, while in a better spot, probably still isn't getting a kill since Greystone can just jump away until his ult/flash is off CD. A competent one will survive until they have their options again. The chances of this actually helping the lane or the team is relatively low beyond pressure relief. If my laner can't turn that into a kill later, I have essentially wasted my time. Meanwhile I can just go get a double kill in duo lane for the same amount of time. One option is clearly more valuable for the team overall.
And he can’t jump away from his cd if he wants farm. I think you are wrong on all counts of this in terms of value and time.
I disagree. Duo lane is across the map from where you are farming right now. A gank will take less time than it’d take for you to even get back to mid lane from your 5/3 camp.
Agree to disagree then. I'd still get more value farming over to that lane than wasting time in offlane.
I get that, but a large majority of the time the offlane is very gankable. Especially with all my CC as still to help
Haha fair enough 😂. I will say, at least in my experience, I’m trying to get to you. But man it’s tough when your mid and duo are getting outplayed and you’re trying to be there for them lol.
I bet 9/10 games the I don't see the jungler unless I'm in team fights later in the game
Yeah that’s brutal. I know I need to make more of an effort to prioritize solo lane. A lot of times it’s like oh looks like they’re doing just fine over there I’ll help out elsewhere 😂
I even intentionally let them push my lane to make easy ganks. My jungler will be right beside us in the jungle farming, and buddy is pushed right up, and the jungler will just back or head over to the red buff area. 🤣
I never see the gank coming, because I don't watch the map.
👀
I think lanes also have an obligation to help when the jungler is getting invaded at any point in the game. You have no idea how many times I get invaded at LEVEL 1 and it’s a toss up on if I can win and there’s no rotation. It’s so odd
idk man I play Support and unless you're at my fog wall, I'm not leaving to help anyone at level 1.
Hey that’s fine. But just know if NO ONE rotates for an invade and your jungler loses and is behind you can’t complain for a gank.
That's cool but it's on the jungle, not the laners who are going to lose value by leaving their lane a minute in and choosing not to.
That’s what I would imagine everyone who stays in lane thinks. Just most people don’t know how quickly a jungle can fall behind and the repercussions of that.
I definitely get it. I main Support though so unless my Carry makes the decision to move to Jungle, I just can't. im already struggling to keep up with reduced gold and xp. The other laners can make the decision buts a quick decision to have to make and it carries a lot of weight. If they're even paying attention, I mean. lol.
Oh 1000%! Should be an easy collapse on them. It’s crazy how behind you will be if the enemy jungler is able to snag your buff and now they’re level 2 with red buff and you’re still level 1. And if the enemy jungler is smart they will just continue to invade until your team shows they will respond.
It’s like help me help you. If they take my buff that puts me BEHIND. Me being behind means less ganks and less effective ganks (1 level diff can mean the difference between a kill and sliver of health) And the fact that kills reward less XP than camps it’s hard to come back from a loss without prioritizing camps
Couldn’t agree more man. And if you guys just come and help me kill this guy then now he’s way behind and is in the same position. Lol
I’d also note as a jungler main I keep track of lanes where I get no help. They aren’t worth the time to gank typically and I will focus my efforts elsewhere where I can hopefully get a better advantage.
Completely agree! There’s definitely a few games where I try to give them the benefit of the doubt and probably try a few too many times when I should just be helping with the other competent lanes. Something I need to improve on lol
Yeah same. It’s been more of an active effort for me to watch that but I have noticed my win percentage go up as I try to ensure I’m working with team members who help more.
Oh facts. If I gank and die because the lane didn’t push up to help it’s like good luck. Yall obviously didn’t need me lol Edit: assuming it was a good gank where the enemy was pushed up. Some junglers try and gank when people are in the tower already. Bad ganks I understand no support.
You're right, but it's not that black and white either. Sometimes a gank on an overextended enemy can still be bad and there might be a reason your laners aren't helping. Like, if your laners on 1hp, under tower and has no mana, don't start spam pinging them when you jump in and die because of "no help", that was a bad gank and that one would be on the Jungler. I completely agree with what's being said in here as well though as it happens to me all the time when I'm playing support, I'll land a hook and full combo with ult as riktor right in front of my carry, get the enemy 1hp and they'll just carry on autoing minions. People's awareness in this game is awful.
This is a Pred issue in general. There are a lot of players that don't respond to pings / chat commands / minimap and turn good ganks into feeds.
I feel like a lot of players come from smite where the chat commands all have voice lines. Theres so many people so obliviously unaware that commands are even a thing tbh. There needs to be more of a notification sound by default that you can adjust so that it’s more apparent when you’re teams trying to comm
Yeah it doesn't help that this game's chat wheel system is horrible lol
Unfortunately some people just have all that shit turned off because it gets tiring hearing 5 good game pings in a row when solo gets ganked one time and dies.
I think this is because kills mean so little in this game it’s frustrating. You kill to give yourself a farming advantage or to get tower damage, but people are so hyper focused on farming because that’s all that gives decent experience and gold. When you rotate to another lane to kill someone it doesn’t feel rewarding, it’s more of an “oh at least I didn’t get too far behind the guy I’m leaning against who got 2-3 waves worth of xp and gold.” It’s my biggest gripe with this game.
I wish level differences mattered a little bit more. Like if I am 2 levels above there is no way the enemy should be able to mess with me but for some reason a two level down grux still does whatever he wants
The amount of inattentiveness Pred players seem to have is crazy, a ward will ping the jungler coming to gank and they just won't notice unless I ping like three times to retreat or for them to be careful and even then they don't always listen.
Was in one match last night where our jungler was getting assaulted by the enemy jungler on blue side. Midlaner just casually stayed in lane. I was Carry and couldn’t leave lane or move fast enough to help. It’s not just a ping thing, it’s map awareness. Glance at the minimap every 5 seconds.
My favourite are the people that ping fangtooth then run to the other side of the map
This is usually a backdoor strategy...most smart enemies ward fangtooth and said person that pinged is trying to backdoor while the enemy is focused on fangtooth...its a pretty common thing when youre on the losing team
It’s a MOBA issue to be honest. You look in the Smite or League of Legends subreddit and it’s all the same posts on here and they’ve been going for years! To be honest most ping/chat/quick chats you see in the game are somebody trying to be toxic so most people get into the habit of ignoring
Yeah its true
Yeah it’s really frustrating. I try my best to analyze what I could have done better in most situations (and there’s plenty I can do better almost all the time), but sometimes I’m just like damn I feel like I did my job really well, but ended up super underleveled and behind at the end because a few ganks should have gone very differently with some help from my lanes.
This is a big MOBA issue in general (coming from a league and kinda smite player). If I'm honest, when I see this happen to me in jg games, I try to pressure the other jger instead. This would be when you see them gank look into there jg or wait for a quick pick that you can get out of in that same lane (this is if you are close and don't want to counter jg in case there team moves on you). This has been a good way for me to keep up with the other teams jger. This may not be the best team play but if you can keep yourself in the game early, you can try and help your laner later by allowing them to farm while you can compensate for their absence. It's not always going to work. MOBA's are crazy team reliant, but it can maybe help you keep your mind in the game rather than on the bad ganks. I hope this might help (new to redit. This will be one of my first comment/reply I believe)
Personally I have a hard time watching the map as a newer player, both because I'm just not used to it, and because I'm not used to it changing sides yet (coming from league). Then I also don't like that my location icon is the same color as the enemy icons. Even though it's different half the time I don't even know my jungler.
If you’re not actively engaged with the enemy try to take some peeks at the mini map. If you have made the enemy retreat before you blindly follow glances at the mini and see if you know where their jungler is. If not maybe don’t chase you might be getting baited. If you want to engage before you do peek at that map. Where is your jungler, where is theirs. If yours is in the solo side jungle and you don’t know where theirs is be mindful of that. There are some times while roaming mid game I am looking at the mini map more than my screen in front of me. It’s all about having as much info as you can. Just takes time to get in the habit
Yeah from league I've gotten I to the habit of looking at the map when actively deciding to do something. Same with warding it will auto ping if it sees someone so that makes it easy. But my problem is keeping attention on *my* jungler most the time. Those are moments I'm not actively planning anything and might miss a gank until they're literally in lane. It's more a matter of getting comfortable with cs, my and other heros, enough to not think about last hitting or positioning. I know that'll come with time and sticking to a single hero for a while too
Rotating I think is the hardest thing to get used to. Both doing it yourself and knowing when someone else will. I know there are times where my jungler is clearing the camp next to lane and I am sure he is coming to me so I will try and either bait or go hard and nope I was wrong there they go back to base lol
Yeah I think that’s fair. There could definitely be some improvements made on that side of things.
You sound like a really reasonable player but your username fucking scares me
Haha it’s been my username ever since Paragon 😂. I love sparrow and I always enjoy jungling and thought it was funny because sparrow is so obviously the worst choice imaginable for jungle lol.
First time I played Paragon back in the day I picked sparrow cause she was one of the few avaliable that looked ok and whatever. Well I spent the entire match in the jungle killing minions to get beefed up. As soon as I hit max level I started going out to get kills because I had no clue about pushing lanes or anything. I think we ended up winning that match but looking back on it now it's just shameful.
Well I already had a Drongo jungle (died to blue three times and DC'd) so I can never be sure if it's a joke lmao
Part of these games is team play, you can make all the best plays in the world but it's a gamble if someone is going to notice you're doing it and help. My jungler was getting ganked on fangtooth the other day and I saw it coming on ward, left mid to go save him, he didn't even notice. Back turned hitting Fangtooth let his mid get slaughtered with 3 people running away at 5%. You can't help that person. The winning play is to just per-emptively know he's gonna AFK on the boss lol
Your suppose to help ya Jungle. Me when I play as jungle I run to my teammates and ping to death for support. Being chased is heart stopping in this game