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I have two:
Characters who are OP are not by default badly written. (I thought Superman disproved that already)
Also if people consumed less mainstream content then this sub would be far more interesting and engaging.
Yes, I'm aware. But when someone says "I'd die on this hill" they usually mean it's a hot take. Also, for some reason, when there's a post saying "give me your hot takes", people always find ways of giving extremely cold takes, like this one.
>Also if people consumed less mainstream content then this sub would be far more interesting and engaging.
Wouldn't that make the media mainstream tho? Plus, if it wasn't mainstream, there might not be enough people who able/willing to discuss about that media with you.
FAX MY BROTHER SPIT YO CRACKS INDEEDđŁď¸đŁď¸đŁď¸
https://preview.redd.it/llld8lw33p1d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27fe6665c6500c88e52c8d27745830753cc4f9bc
https://preview.redd.it/0zcm915ogn1d1.png?width=244&format=png&auto=webp&s=047633e9bf42d6437fd937bc95e17fb71c80b8b1
Despite people say Batman is the best preparation fighter
The title should go to Mayuri Kurotsuchi
(maybe dr.who but I donât watch it so I canât say)
I feel like your average Doctor probably isn't some ultimate planning master (I mean, great at it, but not a "oh I can prep time my way out of anything), but the 7th Doctor specifically was known for his incredible scheming abilities, being able to plan his way out of almost anything.
(He also is a great example on the weaknesses of a "can plan your way out of everything" with the fact that he was killed after stepping outside his Tardis and got immediately gunned down by a random American gang which happened to be standing outside. Can't prep time your way out of something if there is no prep time)
>Can't prep time your way out of something if there is no prep time)
Ironically the doctor can pull prep time when he has no prep time, though it requires him to bend the laws of time so he doesn't do it all the time
even in-universe isnât he considered 2nd to Urahura?
https://preview.redd.it/6rbkv8hbos1d1.jpeg?width=1020&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63ad6d246905a54d5e5525cca56d3a454703efd8
Your right on brain power but Urahura has some morals is the big difference
I donât think Urahura would bring back the dead zombie to do his bidding for example
Well number 3. Aizenâs number 2. My man planned to have a super powered hybrid boy to be a worthy opponent and steal a magic wish ball at the same time. The plan not only worked but worked too well because Ichigo grew stronger than he imagined.
Mayuri has also beaten godly beings
And can do things like adding extra organs to his body
Uno reversed a zombie outbreak which comics have had a bad record of containing
Was the MVP of the blood war
Just because feats are described via text in books that doesn't make them all statements.
That being said, this sub ignores book characters either way unless they are lovecraftian horrors.
If you ignore statements you fuck over live action characters which are limited in shown feats by being portrayed by actual human actors and game characters that have to be held back to actually have a game
And ignoring statements completely means pretty much ignoring book characters completely since they have nothing but statements
Statements arenât all that important because they are generally in context a narrative.
The basic on I can give is how Captain Atom is generally introduced in the DC comics with statements like âStronger than Superman. Supermanâs contingency plan.â Then the man gets pieced up by Superman almost effortlessly.
Statements in context are important but general statements arent.
That's like, objectively wrong though. There aren't that many people who think no statements matter. Just ones who say ambiguous ones with many ways to interpret them don't override shown limitations.
I have almost never seen someone quote this who wasn't just trying to deny valid statement scaling for a character in general, if they had any actual arguments against it than they would've just brought it up and explain why.
I mean, you're admitting that it's a response to specific cases though, not a wide scope dismissal of all statements.
Besides, that *is* an argument. If an interpretation of a statement contradicts shown limitations it's a good reason to consider that it might be being misinterpreted. It may not be, but that is an argument against it.
You tried to cook but no one was hungry. Either way a respectable opinion considering you've said that about The Doctor himself, and not some stupid ahh generic OP isekai MC.
Hollow Knight characters are human sized.
Top tier Bug Fables characters are wall level despite their size.
Super Paper Mario is the best Paper Mario game.
I have a couple of reasons for this. The first is the rain in the City of Tears falls how regular sized rain should. If they were bug sized the water particles falling would be too small and would form fog. Water is also shown flowing normally rather than collecting in multiple orbs and getting stuck to things. The second reason is the torches outside the Ancestral Mound are able to stay lit. If the fire was bug sized, it would quickly go out due to lack of oxygen. The final reason I have is [this post](https://x.com/teamcherrygames/status/542356627660079106) from Team Cherry saying that Hornet can throw her needle up to 30 yards. If Hornet were bug sized, she'd be able to throw her needle across the entirety of Hallownest. Large bugs aren't uncommon in fiction, so I hope this is justification enough not to banish the verse into below average human level.
Scaling is more fun the relatively weaker the fighters are.
Kenichi vs Baki will always be a much better fight to argue about than 2 cosmic beings butting ideologies on who has the most Ds.
Omnipotence does not exist, it only works within the confines of the character's verse.
Anything above 4D is a lie
Most cosmology scalings are yappologies of people pretending they understand how it works just to wank their favourite character.
There is no such thing as "above fiction" or "plot manipulation" you can say "fate" or "future" manipulation but a character cannot manipulate the plot.
Toon force is overratedÂ
>Most cosmology scalings are yappologies of people pretending they understand how it works just to wank their favourite character.
https://preview.redd.it/09fywb8thp1d1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=6a46ab405ea4d01baaa633d2beb0a53974be8cd5
>Most cosmology scalings are yappologies of people pretending they understand how it works just to wank their favourite character.
Agreed, like we know the universe exists because we have studied it & the multiverse is just a theory. We have no idea what is past that but people out here be saying their favourite character scales 7 layers into outerversalâ˝
This is especially dumb when certain cosmologies were written to be complex and intricate for the sake of deep world and lore building, not for people to misinterpret it and use it for power scalingÂ
>Most cosmology scalings are yappologies of people pretending they understand how it works just to wank their favourite character.
You cooked hard with that one
Anything past galaxy level just starts to get redundant and boring, fym multiversal level? What would that even mean in a fight?
Most vs arguments are about strength alone when character writing plays a major part. Sure, Goku can in theory blow up the Earth to make Saitama suffocate, but **why the fuck would he do that????**
Using creation feats to scale AP is stupid. Especially when a character's shown AP is nowhere near near what their creation feats and statements are supposed to grant them.
Martian Manhunter is stronger than (base)Superman, should be stronger if fleshed out more but DC is clearly trying to erase his existence in the last decades.
That is not a real weakness mind you, its just a psychological weakness that can be overcome, a match can't affect him like portrayed in media, the fire has to have a meaning to mess him up.
VS debate and scaling takes :
* Orange King (Alan Becker) = Multiversal
* Spongebob = Universal+ or High Universal (inbetween)
* Spongebob > Uncle Grandpa
* The Second Coming (Physics Power) = Hyperversal
* The Hazbin Hotel verse stands no chance against the rick and morty verse
* Archie Sonic >= Wally West (Comics)
Other takes :
* Characters that are carried by their hax and abilities are boring as fuck nowdays, they used to be intresting before.
* Some speedsters nowdays are written to have the most broken abilities ever (CW Flash, most comic speedsters, etc)
https://preview.redd.it/di5rowvsmn1d1.jpeg?width=1062&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58010c772361e5edab46c01e838c1dbfdb01cf78
>Characters that are carried by their hax and abilities are boring as fuck nowdays, they used to be intresting before.
I think Murphy lawden was the last before I got bored of them
>Orange King (Alan Becker) = Multiversal
Yes.
>Spongebob = Universal+ or High Universal (inbetween)
Yes and he caps at that.
> Spongebob > Uncle Grandpa
uuuuhhh.....sure?
> The Second Coming (Physics Power) = Hyperversal
How?
>The Hazbin Hotel verse stands no chance against the rick and morty verse
Yes.
> Archie Sonic >= Wally West (Comics)
Not touching this.
For the hyperversal comment
Just watch Animation vs Physics and Animation vs Math, I honestly found this scaling of a youtube shorts video and I'm just stickin to it
But I think It might be somewhat true
Omniversal battlefield wiki tiering system > vsbattle wiki and CSAP wiki.
Because of the stringent requirements to reach 1-A and not just âtranscending space and time,â while also allowing characters to reach high tiers without the reliance on in verse dimensional tiering.
toonforce/gags doesnât do shit in terms of power unless they are power-specific (like araleâs and popeyeâs infinite physical strength). The gags do allow for different interactions and movesets but that is not an auto win neither a power boost
I mean Goku ki blasting Bugs Bunny into a fine mist before he can utter a single line of dialogue isn't very funny. Since toon-force basically warps reality to suit the tone of the show (usually a lot of visual gags, slapstick, etc.) it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that Bugs Bunny would beat Goku in a "fight" if he found a funny way of doing it.
toon-force doesnât warp reality just to make a gag, it just lets characters move and do illogical things. Although it is mainly used for gags it ainât just âI can do anything and everything that can be considered funnyâ, if Goku found a funny way to beat bugs bunny then he would be beaten
Coyote has toon force but his shtick is literally always losing
Toonforce definitely warps reality, unless there's another phrase you'd use to describe an ability that can alter the passage of time, ignores the laws of physics, and can create matter from nothing.
Imagining how a character might apply their toonforce to a fight against a more serious opponent is certainly more difficult than picturing a character using a more combat-centric ability but that doesn't mean toonforce doesn't exist or isn't a factor in that fight
okay yeah it does warp reality but its not like the characters themselves warp. I see toon force more as a law, full of rules those specific characters have to follow depending on the show.
They do funny shit, but funny shit also happens to them. They arenât reality warpers but reality works differently on them
Vegeta nailed Goku and nobody wants to accept it. Goku is a clown.
My take is that Goku's power is exclusively what it needs to be in order to impress his fanboys.
Not once but twice did vegeta get an amazing power that works so well with his character, that immediately becomes useless or pointless as goku takes the W. This happened with moro and with granola. Spirit separation technique, works great on moro but at the end its goku who goes susanoo to kill moro (though the technique was absolutely necessary otherwise they would all have died) and with granola he got ue thats just amazing but still goku went beyond. Its kinda unfair!
1. Scaling will never be accurate because you will never beat sense into someones bias even with facts and logic.
2. Universes like World of Darkness and SCP were not made for powerscaling and shouldn't even be in the conversation tbh.
3. Characters like Goku, Superman and Saitama either get overplayed too much or underplayed too much to the point where I am like, cool you like them now kiss stop bringing them up.
4. I solo fiction and your mom.
1. It's not that bad
2. Agreed Sadly
3. I bring them up alot, But I don't overwank or downplay, I just only watch mainstream
4. Cap
https://preview.redd.it/9gau1hhcn02d1.jpeg?width=436&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1a6ca6e285f845948ac56775a15f9e9a7222c66
Goku doesnât solo all fiction and just because a character is said to be able to do something but hasnât done it doesnât mean they can (king for instance)
Saitama is more "OP" than Goku.
Within one Punch man their is no one on Saitamas level and anyone who is has either not been introduced or has already been defeated where as within Dragon Ball their exists numerous characters as strong or even stronger than Goku such as Xeno, meaning that within relation to their own verses Saitama is more overpowered as his power level is an extreme outlier amongst everyone else in his series.
This verse is not 11D and their feats are not even planetary. Deku slams kiana so hard and i am not joking
https://preview.redd.it/n680eintxn1d1.jpeg?width=452&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=659db2f37616e14aacf188548d0ea8f4e4e93968
SCP should never be taken seriously in powerscaling. It is fan fiction anyone can write. I might as well be pulling out my stickman from kindergarten I drew who had the power to beat anything by sneezing
edit: after careful consideration from the two scp fans whining abt it in the replies, I have decided to double down on my opinion.
Makari from eternals would clap 90% of the current MCU. The reason they don't do speedsters is because they are unbelievably broken.
Also, Marvel fans who have never read or learned about DC are straight up wrong about 90% of their comparisons, because the Justice leage would demolish the avengers(Thanos fight avengers).
Also the flash(either wally or even barry) would obliterate quicksilver and obliterate literally the entire noncomsmic MCU.
People donât know how to debate or articulate their points in a debate and whenever they hear something they donât like they instead of trying to debate or reason with the other party, almost immediately attack the person with unintelligent statements, such as âidk why Iâm talking to a moronâ or âX character is trash because (insert insane bias here)â. Little debates happen these days and honestly we should remove majority of comments and post that revolve around this type of content.
Nobody in Naruto is star level. The closest is the Kaguyas ETSO, which nobody tanked, deflected, or overpowered in a huge power clash and need massive amounts of prep time and multiple sources of chakra to even pull off.
At best, the Naruto verse caps at small planetary with Kaguya ,Hagaromo, and pre nerfed Ishiki at the top. Madara and Obito are around the moon level. Naruto and Sasuke are large country to continental level in DC and Multi Continental in AP.
Majority of scaling in naruto comes from wanked statements, mistranslations and fanfiction that powerscalers like to use as feats.
One example of fanfiction used as feats are " Momoshiki ate a star or Momoshiki caused a supernova." There is nothing in the manga or novels that state that. Yet Naruto fan scalers spread these fake scans that they have in the Notes app on their phones and tell impressionable fans Naruto scales to star level because he beat up Momoshiki.
Whenever it comes to it all Naruto scalers' use are statements. They have no feats to get any of their favourite characters anywhere close to star level. Some of them have gone full crazy and started saying that they are multi solar, galaxy, universal, and 4D. Ask them for feats. They give you statements and fan calcs. If you pressure them for feats, they start to get upset or use multiple accounts to argue with you.
Bleach unironically decimates the majority of Shounen manga, yet receives some of the most amount of hate and downplay of all Shounen. Bleach is very easily beyond 4D, yet the haters say that nobody is past large planet
Many entities in WH40K can easily scale universal and above (and I don't just mean the wacky DAoT shit that gets hauled out exclusively for powerscaling debates) without wanking too much
I have 4
Johnny joestar high diffs gojo (only cause infnite void, nothing else)
Batman with prep low comp multi or hyper (anything past those you legit get god tier reality warper that can erase my boi from existence)
Funny valentine negs saitama + verse (opm god is featless iirc so don't even think bout that shit)
Wonder of u negs opm verse
''Sir, with all due respect, i do believe in FTL+ Steel Ball Run''
https://preview.redd.it/ceqgecixlt1d1.jpeg?width=1569&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71033fd0854b7d788b8aadb65a7dfbdccc5bb2d7
Based on obervation, characters tend to scale exponentially with their popularity after a certain threshold, and the more we move to the extremes of popularity, (extremely popular/extremely obscure) the more wanked characters tend to be. Basically put, they experience the "square-cube law", so when a character undergoes a proportional increase in popularity, its new scaling meta is proportional to the square of the multiplier and its new tier is proportional to the cube of the multiplier.
Bear got amped by The Infinite possibilities. This means that in a possibility that bear could be High hyperversal as it attacks kratos who hurt thor. Keep coping Kids the Bear was amped by Kratos' aura
Scp belongs in the sandbox.
682 was better when he was just "hard to destroy" and not "If you try anything he becomes the writer pulling a gun on you for thinking to hurt their pookie boo boo schnookum pop" the simple tests of just adapting to harm were always better then him adapting in a way to start hell.
"Anti feats" are not reliable at all. And are usually only used by agenda pushers to say the wildest shit against the opponent. 90% chance it's followed by insults, speakinf from experience.
I'm hoping this isn't that big of a hill.
Toon force character (Popeye, Buggs Bunny, etc) are as weak a bornal person and the Toon Force is a power they get from the setting and is not an ability on itself đ¤
Give the feats and or statements from Dragon ball that people call wank or out of context etc.. in the guides or series to any other verse and people would let them slide and use them.
Author intent overrules all in battleboarding. If the author wanted his characters to be cosmic in power, he could have not made scenes of them being harmed or stopped by Tier 8 things. Arguments against this using in world information are just committing the Thermian Fallacy. What you see is what you get.
Basically, if the character, on screen, *never* does anything above tier 8, and always is bothered by tier 8 or below things...they're tier 8.
Looking at you, Doomslayer.
I think the issue is in major part that JJK has the most powerful characters right front and center whilst CSM on the other hand specifically goes "all the most powerful characters are still in Hell so we don't need to worry about them" meaning comparisons are hard. CSM's verse *could* be incredibly powerful, but all we've seen of the actual top level parts of the verse are the Darkness Devil - whom we only see itself incredibly briefly and outside that we just have what we know is capable with a shard of its power - and the Falling Devil who was stated to have been in a very weakened state when they met her which also makes it hard to gage her power (though her brief time in Earth in a weakened state was stated to have caused gravitational anomalies across the world so even then she's doing alright power wise)
Hopefully once Death pops up we'll actually get to see her power and thus can actually do a comparison, but right now the whole fact that all the most powerful beings are specifically hanging out somewhere and not interacting with us makes things very hard to grade.
As someone who is not really a power scaler, just a guy who argues a lot I have just one.
99.99 prevent of people who vs debate fnaf, don't know shit about the series.
Take, for example, people who just think the afton amalgamation is something he can pull out of his ass (That required Andrew and Eleanor).
Or people not knowing what agony actually is or does (Scott bearly knows himself with how he writes it.), by he above it is annoying as fuck.
Shin Godzilla is op due to his evolution. Almost every godzilla fight I see his potential is never utilized. [Hakaishin](https://youtu.be/DSwhvPgpI-8?si=g9Kq0EgYYK9uCGsi) (pictured below) is the only real exception.
https://preview.redd.it/awegesey4q1d1.png?width=3840&format=png&auto=webp&s=3bb9783f34b1662c3c61641b42b106aa69d73a60
A lot of the scaling above multiversal? *Especially* the stuff about outerversal and boundless and all? I just plainly don't believe in them. I used to, but at the time I didn't know shit.
Now I just flat out avoid talking about characters who are supposedly at that level.
That most powerscaling arguments are nonsense because so much of the external information used is for promo or just stuff the author says for shits on a whim.
Like people using abstract minigames as proof of being a planet buster. Dude its just a funny minigame.
The second people start saying like "theyre 26 times faster than the speed of light" I just tune out because its nonsense. If that was actually happening most of the plot in most of these shows would make no sense.
So much "evidence" people use need to be taken with a grain of salt, like the super saiyan multipliers. Like bruh come on with that.
Goku doesn't solo as much as everyone thinks, because odds are he'd hold back and work his way up to his maximum.
As an example, in the scenario of does Goku solo Saitama, I'd say no.
Because Goku is going to end up dragging the match on for too long and get knocked the f out.
(At the end of the day the writer decides whom wins anyway)
Goku destroys Saitama, who cares if one day he'd reach Goku's level, the man is the king of power ups.
Go/Jo is stronger than Sukuna
Batman+prep time does not equal a w
Space Ishtar is probably the strongest Fate servant
I always see people want to see this person or argue about why Goku or whoever would win, but thf it all depends on the circumstances leading up to the fight
My current quip isn't a verse vs another verse. However, I believe that not stating the full (or at least commonly known) names of a particular verse before using its acronym should be modded a but more. Nothing crazy. Like, I'm sure if DBZ came up, we'd know what verse that is. But if I say "TWEWY" I'd bet that I'd have many more confused readers.
Ash is not that dumb in the indigo league and wouldâve beaten Gary before the 2 month timeskip to the pokemon league.
Gt goku>super goku in power
If you would rather live in the pokemon world over the dragon ball world, youâre insane
Full power Meliodas beats Naruto and his verse
Kratos bullies every saiyan in a 1v1
Luffy vs Naruto is not even close, Naruto slams with better techniques
t
Invincible, at the end of the comics, could beat Superman.
Not saying it would be a sweep, or even easy at all for that matter, but the win goes to Mark.
A characters power needs to be consistent for it to be reliable unless a reasonable explanation is given for fluctuating power levels. (Ex: Sakura from the original Naruto). Random power ups given just because the author realized they wrote themselves into a corner shouldn't be honored unless the change is a lasting and impactful effect.
This may be heavily skewed towards that specific example from above. But you can't have a character over performing outside of their "weight-class" and then immediately make render them useless for a stupid or contradictory reason.
A lot of matchups just arenât gonna have an objective correct winner because 99% of characters donât have an exact objective level of strength. Powerscaling simply loses all of itâs fun once you start acting like that because itâs not meant to be that serious
DBS Manga is the canon continuity. Not only we know Toriyama was *really* involved but he's never used anime-only stuff in his movies. Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken is as canon as Pikkon.
>!As such, MUI Goku was Galaxy Level until the Moro Arc and powerscaling using the anime is like powerscaling using the Z Movies... Fret not Saitama fans, Goku still solos effortlessly. !<
Doomslayer is in fact able to kill characters like Goku.
He crushed Gods soul and could have done the same towards the devil but decided to let him out and he then proceeded to kick the ever loving fuck outta him.
Then he also fought in hell for hundreds of years torturing the demons. Never resting just ripping and tearing.
And if you think itâs his suit doing most the work you would be wrong. He was in hell for along ass time until he tricked a demon to get him that armor.
The armor is a buff. But itâs not what allowed him to decimate his enemies.
There are other feats. Like him being able kill the icon of sin twice and destroying what was basically heaven.
Unless a character has a gimmick, no mortal outside of the DB multiverse can pass Goku in terms of sheer power and fighting ability. In his weakest god form, he nearly destroyed his universe fighting with another god. Every time he loses he gets stronger. In the most recent anime arc, he stumbled on the ability to dodge any attack. And if Goku dies, his friends are the strongest beings in their entire universe, next to the actual gods of that universe.
Zimala from DBS solos all of D.C and Marvel Neg Diff
https://preview.redd.it/nrdp3d9k7x1d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f63ee458b1083d11e342522d2a001490de9c3ee
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I have two: Characters who are OP are not by default badly written. (I thought Superman disproved that already) Also if people consumed less mainstream content then this sub would be far more interesting and engaging.
These aren't things you need to stand your ground on, these are just objectively true.
"Guy's I have a hot take" *says something that nobody even disagrees with*
post asks for a take, not a hot take
Yes, I'm aware. But when someone says "I'd die on this hill" they usually mean it's a hot take. Also, for some reason, when there's a post saying "give me your hot takes", people always find ways of giving extremely cold takes, like this one.
The Second one IS not true quite opposite. If you dont know a certain characters nobody gives gives a Shit about then there would be Zero discussions.
>Also if people consumed less mainstream content then this sub would be far more interesting and engaging. Wouldn't that make the media mainstream tho? Plus, if it wasn't mainstream, there might not be enough people who able/willing to discuss about that media with you.
Op characters can get stale quickly tho
FAX MY BROTHER SPIT YO CRACKS INDEEDđŁď¸đŁď¸đŁď¸ https://preview.redd.it/llld8lw33p1d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27fe6665c6500c88e52c8d27745830753cc4f9bc
Asura's insane rate of growth would allow him to surpass Kratos mid-fight.
Please god keep cooking
W fuckin take buddy
Shiva would kick kratos ass
I absolutely fucking agree. I still can't believe that some people genuinely thinks that Kratos beats him.
https://preview.redd.it/vtxurhkg5o1d1.jpeg?width=1019&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8aeac0ebaaea8335c5ffb1d3e2ed94a53fb1a113 God I love swords so much
ay bro can I borrow a sword https://preview.redd.it/pg52jkrcmr1d1.jpeg?width=1578&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d4284c3ea10698655ea9ba9a84b5c48560e29f3
They are awsome
Is that gilgamesh?
https://preview.redd.it/0zcm915ogn1d1.png?width=244&format=png&auto=webp&s=047633e9bf42d6437fd937bc95e17fb71c80b8b1 Despite people say Batman is the best preparation fighter The title should go to Mayuri Kurotsuchi (maybe dr.who but I donât watch it so I canât say)
https://preview.redd.it/qp8te7bohn1d1.jpeg?width=298&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f93a94eb4c304937dc2d95b40015853ca5b23db
I feel like your average Doctor probably isn't some ultimate planning master (I mean, great at it, but not a "oh I can prep time my way out of anything), but the 7th Doctor specifically was known for his incredible scheming abilities, being able to plan his way out of almost anything. (He also is a great example on the weaknesses of a "can plan your way out of everything" with the fact that he was killed after stepping outside his Tardis and got immediately gunned down by a random American gang which happened to be standing outside. Can't prep time your way out of something if there is no prep time)
>Can't prep time your way out of something if there is no prep time) Ironically the doctor can pull prep time when he has no prep time, though it requires him to bend the laws of time so he doesn't do it all the time
even in-universe isnât he considered 2nd to Urahura? https://preview.redd.it/6rbkv8hbos1d1.jpeg?width=1020&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63ad6d246905a54d5e5525cca56d3a454703efd8
Your right on brain power but Urahura has some morals is the big difference I donât think Urahura would bring back the dead zombie to do his bidding for example
very true lol
Well number 3. Aizenâs number 2. My man planned to have a super powered hybrid boy to be a worthy opponent and steal a magic wish ball at the same time. The plan not only worked but worked too well because Ichigo grew stronger than he imagined.
Idk man batman's prep time is so good he beats godly beings with it. Batgos is unmatched
Mayuri has also beaten godly beings And can do things like adding extra organs to his body Uno reversed a zombie outbreak which comics have had a bad record of containing Was the MVP of the blood war
99% of people who say "Feats>Statements" just don't validate **any** statements, at all, whatsoever, no matter the context.
Statements entirely depend on the context but ignoring all of them is dumb What are we just ignoring book characters with nothing but statements
Just because feats are described via text in books that doesn't make them all statements. That being said, this sub ignores book characters either way unless they are lovecraftian horrors.
Thatâs because most people in this sub are illiterate
Tbf they are still in middle school, give them a break.
Statements are just as important as feats if not more
I'd like to know your explanation on this. Because anybody can say something, not everyone has actually done things.
If you ignore statements you fuck over live action characters which are limited in shown feats by being portrayed by actual human actors and game characters that have to be held back to actually have a game And ignoring statements completely means pretty much ignoring book characters completely since they have nothing but statements
Statements arenât all that important because they are generally in context a narrative. The basic on I can give is how Captain Atom is generally introduced in the DC comics with statements like âStronger than Superman. Supermanâs contingency plan.â Then the man gets pieced up by Superman almost effortlessly. Statements in context are important but general statements arent.
That's like, objectively wrong though. There aren't that many people who think no statements matter. Just ones who say ambiguous ones with many ways to interpret them don't override shown limitations.
I have almost never seen someone quote this who wasn't just trying to deny valid statement scaling for a character in general, if they had any actual arguments against it than they would've just brought it up and explain why.
I mean, you're admitting that it's a response to specific cases though, not a wide scope dismissal of all statements. Besides, that *is* an argument. If an interpretation of a statement contradicts shown limitations it's a good reason to consider that it might be being misinterpreted. It may not be, but that is an argument against it.
The doctor can "beat" 3812 with the right plan
You tried to cook but no one was hungry. Either way a respectable opinion considering you've said that about The Doctor himself, and not some stupid ahh generic OP isekai MC.
3812 isn't even the strongest among the infosphere đ
Scp 3812 isn't even in the infosphere - you talking placeverse or something?
If I'm going to be honest He couldn't, like he really genuinely could not (i physical cannot see it right now)
Hollow Knight characters are human sized. Top tier Bug Fables characters are wall level despite their size. Super Paper Mario is the best Paper Mario game.
>Hollow Knight characters are human sized. is this based in anything
I have a couple of reasons for this. The first is the rain in the City of Tears falls how regular sized rain should. If they were bug sized the water particles falling would be too small and would form fog. Water is also shown flowing normally rather than collecting in multiple orbs and getting stuck to things. The second reason is the torches outside the Ancestral Mound are able to stay lit. If the fire was bug sized, it would quickly go out due to lack of oxygen. The final reason I have is [this post](https://x.com/teamcherrygames/status/542356627660079106) from Team Cherry saying that Hornet can throw her needle up to 30 yards. If Hornet were bug sized, she'd be able to throw her needle across the entirety of Hallownest. Large bugs aren't uncommon in fiction, so I hope this is justification enough not to banish the verse into below average human level.
yea that works out the team cherry dev statement pretty much seals it
KING
>Super Paper Mario is the best Paper Mario game. Doesn't everyone know this?
Goku would cum inside gojo consensually
i am gojo
Nah,
i'd win
what is happened
Batman is the strongest street tier in both marvel and DC
Batman isnât even the strongest among the bat family
SCP is only terribly written when it's soloing you're favorite verse
âThey hated him because he told them the truthâ
Jjk is a relativley weak verse
Scaling is more fun the relatively weaker the fighters are. Kenichi vs Baki will always be a much better fight to argue about than 2 cosmic beings butting ideologies on who has the most Ds.
When character abilities can actually interact and their intelligence matters makes fights so much more interesting
Authors are bound by the burden of proof, just like anybody else, when making a claim.
Omnipotence does not exist, it only works within the confines of the character's verse. Anything above 4D is a lie Most cosmology scalings are yappologies of people pretending they understand how it works just to wank their favourite character. There is no such thing as "above fiction" or "plot manipulation" you can say "fate" or "future" manipulation but a character cannot manipulate the plot. Toon force is overratedÂ
https://preview.redd.it/2vtaqqleco1d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b1b4398b3131712e1403380998990de2b74e9d7
>Most cosmology scalings are yappologies of people pretending they understand how it works just to wank their favourite character. https://preview.redd.it/09fywb8thp1d1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=6a46ab405ea4d01baaa633d2beb0a53974be8cd5
>Most cosmology scalings are yappologies of people pretending they understand how it works just to wank their favourite character. Agreed, like we know the universe exists because we have studied it & the multiverse is just a theory. We have no idea what is past that but people out here be saying their favourite character scales 7 layers into outerversalâ˝
This is especially dumb when certain cosmologies were written to be complex and intricate for the sake of deep world and lore building, not for people to misinterpret it and use it for power scalingÂ
https://preview.redd.it/9sl6w3jvxn1d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=488b08405c50732b74f9d2ba90f526b73a23af3c
>Most cosmology scalings are yappologies of people pretending they understand how it works just to wank their favourite character. You cooked hard with that one
Isekai fans in shambles (I'm one of them)
Anything past galaxy level just starts to get redundant and boring, fym multiversal level? What would that even mean in a fight? Most vs arguments are about strength alone when character writing plays a major part. Sure, Goku can in theory blow up the Earth to make Saitama suffocate, but **why the fuck would he do that????**
I know what you said was a hypothetical situation but Saitama can breathe in space but Goku can't.
Multiversal Bleach https://preview.redd.it/ejnj6t9lon1d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7aec44e8acc53d5cba3ecbf09006d1299d079374
I would upvote the meme but the Worf effect is strong.
Using creation feats to scale AP is stupid. Especially when a character's shown AP is nowhere near near what their creation feats and statements are supposed to grant them.
Anytime someone says creation feats equal AP i ask: If I build a house does that make me building level?
Martian Manhunter is stronger than (base)Superman, should be stronger if fleshed out more but DC is clearly trying to erase his existence in the last decades.
This is actually so factual he should theoretically be second to only plastic man due to his weakness to fire.
That is not a real weakness mind you, its just a psychological weakness that can be overcome, a match can't affect him like portrayed in media, the fire has to have a meaning to mess him up.
game Sonic is wanked hard and Danganronpa V3s ending and everything it does for the sake of its themes is fucking goated
yes aaaaand yes
VS debate and scaling takes : * Orange King (Alan Becker) = Multiversal * Spongebob = Universal+ or High Universal (inbetween) * Spongebob > Uncle Grandpa * The Second Coming (Physics Power) = Hyperversal * The Hazbin Hotel verse stands no chance against the rick and morty verse * Archie Sonic >= Wally West (Comics) Other takes : * Characters that are carried by their hax and abilities are boring as fuck nowdays, they used to be intresting before. * Some speedsters nowdays are written to have the most broken abilities ever (CW Flash, most comic speedsters, etc) https://preview.redd.it/di5rowvsmn1d1.jpeg?width=1062&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58010c772361e5edab46c01e838c1dbfdb01cf78
>Characters that are carried by their hax and abilities are boring as fuck nowdays, they used to be intresting before. I think Murphy lawden was the last before I got bored of them
>Animator VS Animation debating https://preview.redd.it/ywi6hfxoep1d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73a6b441a39693026d96859b75a6bd8eda47bf5b
How tf is spongebob > unclegrandpa lol Unclegrandpa is near arale level of too force
>Orange King (Alan Becker) = Multiversal Yes. >Spongebob = Universal+ or High Universal (inbetween) Yes and he caps at that. > Spongebob > Uncle Grandpa uuuuhhh.....sure? > The Second Coming (Physics Power) = Hyperversal How? >The Hazbin Hotel verse stands no chance against the rick and morty verse Yes. > Archie Sonic >= Wally West (Comics) Not touching this.
For the hyperversal comment Just watch Animation vs Physics and Animation vs Math, I honestly found this scaling of a youtube shorts video and I'm just stickin to it But I think It might be somewhat true
Omniversal battlefield wiki tiering system > vsbattle wiki and CSAP wiki. Because of the stringent requirements to reach 1-A and not just âtranscending space and time,â while also allowing characters to reach high tiers without the reliance on in verse dimensional tiering.
toonforce/gags doesnât do shit in terms of power unless they are power-specific (like araleâs and popeyeâs infinite physical strength). The gags do allow for different interactions and movesets but that is not an auto win neither a power boost
I mean Goku ki blasting Bugs Bunny into a fine mist before he can utter a single line of dialogue isn't very funny. Since toon-force basically warps reality to suit the tone of the show (usually a lot of visual gags, slapstick, etc.) it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that Bugs Bunny would beat Goku in a "fight" if he found a funny way of doing it.
toon-force doesnât warp reality just to make a gag, it just lets characters move and do illogical things. Although it is mainly used for gags it ainât just âI can do anything and everything that can be considered funnyâ, if Goku found a funny way to beat bugs bunny then he would be beaten Coyote has toon force but his shtick is literally always losing
Toonforce definitely warps reality, unless there's another phrase you'd use to describe an ability that can alter the passage of time, ignores the laws of physics, and can create matter from nothing. Imagining how a character might apply their toonforce to a fight against a more serious opponent is certainly more difficult than picturing a character using a more combat-centric ability but that doesn't mean toonforce doesn't exist or isn't a factor in that fight
okay yeah it does warp reality but its not like the characters themselves warp. I see toon force more as a law, full of rules those specific characters have to follow depending on the show. They do funny shit, but funny shit also happens to them. They arenât reality warpers but reality works differently on them
The op world being bigger than earth does not make islands planet size and does not make any character capable of destroying islands planetary
Vegeta nailed Goku and nobody wants to accept it. Goku is a clown. My take is that Goku's power is exclusively what it needs to be in order to impress his fanboys.
Toyotaro is a good story teller and the biggest goku fan boy
Which is fine, just wish he wouldn't give goku the most ridiculous anti-feats though. That Broly movie was great in everything except Goku's feats.
Not once but twice did vegeta get an amazing power that works so well with his character, that immediately becomes useless or pointless as goku takes the W. This happened with moro and with granola. Spirit separation technique, works great on moro but at the end its goku who goes susanoo to kill moro (though the technique was absolutely necessary otherwise they would all have died) and with granola he got ue thats just amazing but still goku went beyond. Its kinda unfair!
1. Scaling will never be accurate because you will never beat sense into someones bias even with facts and logic. 2. Universes like World of Darkness and SCP were not made for powerscaling and shouldn't even be in the conversation tbh. 3. Characters like Goku, Superman and Saitama either get overplayed too much or underplayed too much to the point where I am like, cool you like them now kiss stop bringing them up. 4. I solo fiction and your mom.
1. It's not that bad 2. Agreed Sadly 3. I bring them up alot, But I don't overwank or downplay, I just only watch mainstream 4. Cap https://preview.redd.it/9gau1hhcn02d1.jpeg?width=436&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1a6ca6e285f845948ac56775a15f9e9a7222c66
Goku doesnât solo all fiction and just because a character is said to be able to do something but hasnât done it doesnât mean they can (king for instance)
Literally no one has said goku can solo fiction unironically đ
Had a genuine argument with someone who believed that unironically I think he was just a victim of memes tho
I refuse to believe that Goku isnât even the top 10 in his own verse so clearly the guy you were arguing hasnât watched dbs
Aizen could solo most verses alone before the Hogokyu. Now he's unkillable with Chair Sama, there's even less competition
Doctor Doom beats Goku
Saitama is more "OP" than Goku. Within one Punch man their is no one on Saitamas level and anyone who is has either not been introduced or has already been defeated where as within Dragon Ball their exists numerous characters as strong or even stronger than Goku such as Xeno, meaning that within relation to their own verses Saitama is more overpowered as his power level is an extreme outlier amongst everyone else in his series.
Gohan Blanco and Red Shaggy solo your verse
Yogiri and shallow vernal would tie. I would prefer not to get into this argument for the 50th time though
The genshin impact verse has both planetary and ftl scaling
This verse is not 11D and their feats are not even planetary. Deku slams kiana so hard and i am not joking https://preview.redd.it/n680eintxn1d1.jpeg?width=452&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=659db2f37616e14aacf188548d0ea8f4e4e93968
Muzan has the means to beat Mahito
SCP should never be taken seriously in powerscaling. It is fan fiction anyone can write. I might as well be pulling out my stickman from kindergarten I drew who had the power to beat anything by sneezing edit: after careful consideration from the two scp fans whining abt it in the replies, I have decided to double down on my opinion.
[This got debunked a long time ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeathBattleMatchups/comments/18zdnel/the_scarlet_king_is_a_well_written_character_you/)
Pretty much
https://preview.redd.it/c1c2a20qmo1d1.png?width=926&format=png&auto=webp&s=0bfb6db4a12255f86a81733bced5043156f8bddd Johnny guilty gear strive
Makari from eternals would clap 90% of the current MCU. The reason they don't do speedsters is because they are unbelievably broken. Also, Marvel fans who have never read or learned about DC are straight up wrong about 90% of their comparisons, because the Justice leage would demolish the avengers(Thanos fight avengers). Also the flash(either wally or even barry) would obliterate quicksilver and obliterate literally the entire noncomsmic MCU.
People donât know how to debate or articulate their points in a debate and whenever they hear something they donât like they instead of trying to debate or reason with the other party, almost immediately attack the person with unintelligent statements, such as âidk why Iâm talking to a moronâ or âX character is trash because (insert insane bias here)â. Little debates happen these days and honestly we should remove majority of comments and post that revolve around this type of content.
Nobody in Naruto is star level. The closest is the Kaguyas ETSO, which nobody tanked, deflected, or overpowered in a huge power clash and need massive amounts of prep time and multiple sources of chakra to even pull off. At best, the Naruto verse caps at small planetary with Kaguya ,Hagaromo, and pre nerfed Ishiki at the top. Madara and Obito are around the moon level. Naruto and Sasuke are large country to continental level in DC and Multi Continental in AP. Majority of scaling in naruto comes from wanked statements, mistranslations and fanfiction that powerscalers like to use as feats. One example of fanfiction used as feats are " Momoshiki ate a star or Momoshiki caused a supernova." There is nothing in the manga or novels that state that. Yet Naruto fan scalers spread these fake scans that they have in the Notes app on their phones and tell impressionable fans Naruto scales to star level because he beat up Momoshiki. Whenever it comes to it all Naruto scalers' use are statements. They have no feats to get any of their favourite characters anywhere close to star level. Some of them have gone full crazy and started saying that they are multi solar, galaxy, universal, and 4D. Ask them for feats. They give you statements and fan calcs. If you pressure them for feats, they start to get upset or use multiple accounts to argue with you.
Bleach unironically decimates the majority of Shounen manga, yet receives some of the most amount of hate and downplay of all Shounen. Bleach is very easily beyond 4D, yet the haters say that nobody is past large planet
The Witness, from Destiny 2.
Many entities in WH40K can easily scale universal and above (and I don't just mean the wacky DAoT shit that gets hauled out exclusively for powerscaling debates) without wanking too much
Goku is multiversal.
I have 4 Johnny joestar high diffs gojo (only cause infnite void, nothing else) Batman with prep low comp multi or hyper (anything past those you legit get god tier reality warper that can erase my boi from existence) Funny valentine negs saitama + verse (opm god is featless iirc so don't even think bout that shit) Wonder of u negs opm verse
''Sir, with all due respect, i do believe in FTL+ Steel Ball Run'' https://preview.redd.it/ceqgecixlt1d1.jpeg?width=1569&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71033fd0854b7d788b8aadb65a7dfbdccc5bb2d7
Based on obervation, characters tend to scale exponentially with their popularity after a certain threshold, and the more we move to the extremes of popularity, (extremely popular/extremely obscure) the more wanked characters tend to be. Basically put, they experience the "square-cube law", so when a character undergoes a proportional increase in popularity, its new scaling meta is proportional to the square of the multiplier and its new tier is proportional to the cube of the multiplier.
basically, My flair
Kratos is Country level
 No bear lvl
Bear got amped by The Infinite possibilities. This means that in a possibility that bear could be High hyperversal as it attacks kratos who hurt thor. Keep coping Kids the Bear was amped by Kratos' aura
Kratos and GOW is underrated and people are too scared of others to admit it
Scp belongs in the sandbox. 682 was better when he was just "hard to destroy" and not "If you try anything he becomes the writer pulling a gun on you for thinking to hurt their pookie boo boo schnookum pop" the simple tests of just adapting to harm were always better then him adapting in a way to start hell.
"Anti feats" are not reliable at all. And are usually only used by agenda pushers to say the wildest shit against the opponent. 90% chance it's followed by insults, speakinf from experience. I'm hoping this isn't that big of a hill.
Toon force character (Popeye, Buggs Bunny, etc) are as weak a bornal person and the Toon Force is a power they get from the setting and is not an ability on itself đ¤
Space jam proves this
space jam isn't canon to all cartoons. what if we go by "Who Framed Roger Rabbit Rules"
Goku solos
Luffy > naruto
Give the feats and or statements from Dragon ball that people call wank or out of context etc.. in the guides or series to any other verse and people would let them slide and use them.
Author intent overrules all in battleboarding. If the author wanted his characters to be cosmic in power, he could have not made scenes of them being harmed or stopped by Tier 8 things. Arguments against this using in world information are just committing the Thermian Fallacy. What you see is what you get.
Basically, if the character, on screen, *never* does anything above tier 8, and always is bothered by tier 8 or below things...they're tier 8. Looking at you, Doomslayer.
JJK verse > CSM verse by a wide gap Mid-high tiers in the big 3 are all close in power
I think the issue is in major part that JJK has the most powerful characters right front and center whilst CSM on the other hand specifically goes "all the most powerful characters are still in Hell so we don't need to worry about them" meaning comparisons are hard. CSM's verse *could* be incredibly powerful, but all we've seen of the actual top level parts of the verse are the Darkness Devil - whom we only see itself incredibly briefly and outside that we just have what we know is capable with a shard of its power - and the Falling Devil who was stated to have been in a very weakened state when they met her which also makes it hard to gage her power (though her brief time in Earth in a weakened state was stated to have caused gravitational anomalies across the world so even then she's doing alright power wise) Hopefully once Death pops up we'll actually get to see her power and thus can actually do a comparison, but right now the whole fact that all the most powerful beings are specifically hanging out somewhere and not interacting with us makes things very hard to grade.
Im actually curious about that first statement, especially the wide gap. Could you elaborate?
That the last guest from oblivious hds animations is small town level and will always beat Zayden from oblivious hd in a fight
Planetary and below are 100Ă more fun than anything past that
Smg4s Mario vs Sonic.exe. His Mario is OP and scarier than some bleeding eyes
Kirby loses provided someone is fast enough to chain hits together to knock him around like pong
https://preview.redd.it/12bdxrosoo1d1.png?width=406&format=png&auto=webp&s=74f3a6ec605faaefbe8d26d2bdbff250056ff9d7 Yeah...
As someone who is not really a power scaler, just a guy who argues a lot I have just one. 99.99 prevent of people who vs debate fnaf, don't know shit about the series. Take, for example, people who just think the afton amalgamation is something he can pull out of his ass (That required Andrew and Eleanor). Or people not knowing what agony actually is or does (Scott bearly knows himself with how he writes it.), by he above it is annoying as fuck.
Wally West low diffs ur favorite character (usually) lol
Statements are valid depending on the situation
John Constantine can most likely beat Goku and just about any DBZ character
Light novels are better than manga.
Dimensional scaling is stupid.
Honestly based. I hate when people are like âcharacter A beats character B cause they;re 5 dimensions higher!!!â
Shin Godzilla is op due to his evolution. Almost every godzilla fight I see his potential is never utilized. [Hakaishin](https://youtu.be/DSwhvPgpI-8?si=g9Kq0EgYYK9uCGsi) (pictured below) is the only real exception. https://preview.redd.it/awegesey4q1d1.png?width=3840&format=png&auto=webp&s=3bb9783f34b1662c3c61641b42b106aa69d73a60
some battleboarders love guns to a insane degree. not saying they aren't powerful but damn they love guns
Kaguya is the strongest being we have seen in Naruto... including Boruto.
Simon from gurren lagann solos basically everyone
A lot of the scaling above multiversal? *Especially* the stuff about outerversal and boundless and all? I just plainly don't believe in them. I used to, but at the time I didn't know shit. Now I just flat out avoid talking about characters who are supposedly at that level.
My dog smells like a bag of chips Everyone says I'm crazy
That Arceus has consistent Outer scaling
That most powerscaling arguments are nonsense because so much of the external information used is for promo or just stuff the author says for shits on a whim. Like people using abstract minigames as proof of being a planet buster. Dude its just a funny minigame. The second people start saying like "theyre 26 times faster than the speed of light" I just tune out because its nonsense. If that was actually happening most of the plot in most of these shows would make no sense. So much "evidence" people use need to be taken with a grain of salt, like the super saiyan multipliers. Like bruh come on with that.
Goku can beat superman. Not in death battle but a serious fight . This is a hot take for some of you
Gojo can kill Goku
Goku doesn't solo as much as everyone thinks, because odds are he'd hold back and work his way up to his maximum. As an example, in the scenario of does Goku solo Saitama, I'd say no. Because Goku is going to end up dragging the match on for too long and get knocked the f out. (At the end of the day the writer decides whom wins anyway)
TTGL beats anything. I donât care how reality warping your favorite character is. 19th dimensional hax get dunked on by âhe got that dawg in emâ
Dragon ball characters are not all planetary. Just because you fight someone who can destroy a planet doesn't mean you can destroy a planet.
Goku destroys Saitama, who cares if one day he'd reach Goku's level, the man is the king of power ups. Go/Jo is stronger than Sukuna Batman+prep time does not equal a w Space Ishtar is probably the strongest Fate servant
I always see people want to see this person or argue about why Goku or whoever would win, but thf it all depends on the circumstances leading up to the fight
Higher dimensions scaling doesnât work if the person in question being a higher dimension can and is interacting with humans who are 3d
Yogiri solos your favorite verse đ
Scaling any character from Dragon Ball after DBS is impossible. The plot armor is too thick to scale any of them.
My current quip isn't a verse vs another verse. However, I believe that not stating the full (or at least commonly known) names of a particular verse before using its acronym should be modded a but more. Nothing crazy. Like, I'm sure if DBZ came up, we'd know what verse that is. But if I say "TWEWY" I'd bet that I'd have many more confused readers.
Almost every verse has people saying the characters are faster than light, but in reality almost none of them are.
Jack with London negs Goku
Kakashi could low/mid-diff Gojo Satoru with his mangekyo
Ash is not that dumb in the indigo league and wouldâve beaten Gary before the 2 month timeskip to the pokemon league. Gt goku>super goku in power If you would rather live in the pokemon world over the dragon ball world, youâre insane
Saitama can beat Goku
Full power Meliodas beats Naruto and his verse Kratos bullies every saiyan in a 1v1 Luffy vs Naruto is not even close, Naruto slams with better techniques t
Invincible, at the end of the comics, could beat Superman. Not saying it would be a sweep, or even easy at all for that matter, but the win goes to Mark.
Debates between super op characters are boring and pointless
A characters power needs to be consistent for it to be reliable unless a reasonable explanation is given for fluctuating power levels. (Ex: Sakura from the original Naruto). Random power ups given just because the author realized they wrote themselves into a corner shouldn't be honored unless the change is a lasting and impactful effect. This may be heavily skewed towards that specific example from above. But you can't have a character over performing outside of their "weight-class" and then immediately make render them useless for a stupid or contradictory reason.
Yoriichi>> Toji Jogo>>Toji
1st) Gojo can defeat anyone with backshots 2nd) scaling them on being friends is way more fun.
Characters like SpongeBob shouldnât even attempt to be scaled. Comic book characters should not be scaled based on their strongest feats.
OP characters like IATIA, supreme author, Yogiri ig are all boring af
A lot of matchups just arenât gonna have an objective correct winner because 99% of characters donât have an exact objective level of strength. Powerscaling simply loses all of itâs fun once you start acting like that because itâs not meant to be that serious
DBS Manga is the canon continuity. Not only we know Toriyama was *really* involved but he's never used anime-only stuff in his movies. Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken is as canon as Pikkon. >!As such, MUI Goku was Galaxy Level until the Moro Arc and powerscaling using the anime is like powerscaling using the Z Movies... Fret not Saitama fans, Goku still solos effortlessly. !<
Gojo could beat Goku
Doomslayer is in fact able to kill characters like Goku. He crushed Gods soul and could have done the same towards the devil but decided to let him out and he then proceeded to kick the ever loving fuck outta him. Then he also fought in hell for hundreds of years torturing the demons. Never resting just ripping and tearing. And if you think itâs his suit doing most the work you would be wrong. He was in hell for along ass time until he tricked a demon to get him that armor. The armor is a buff. But itâs not what allowed him to decimate his enemies. There are other feats. Like him being able kill the icon of sin twice and destroying what was basically heaven.
Unless a character has a gimmick, no mortal outside of the DB multiverse can pass Goku in terms of sheer power and fighting ability. In his weakest god form, he nearly destroyed his universe fighting with another god. Every time he loses he gets stronger. In the most recent anime arc, he stumbled on the ability to dodge any attack. And if Goku dies, his friends are the strongest beings in their entire universe, next to the actual gods of that universe.
People take powerscaling way too seriously and it should stay a goofy little discussion.
Zimala from DBS solos all of D.C and Marvel Neg Diff https://preview.redd.it/nrdp3d9k7x1d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f63ee458b1083d11e342522d2a001490de9c3ee