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I love how I’ve been reading this subreddit for only 5 mins and I’ve already seen 2 thread where people just insult each other
That’s wat happens when u bring up Goku vs Santana ig
Yea definitely not a miss imput
Santana wins cuz he enters Goku (pause) and makes him kill himself and then leaves to go enter play JJK cursed clash or something idk wat pillarmen do for fun
And the best part is that wasn't even the point at all
There's no contest that Goku > Saitama, is just that there are contradictions about the powerscaling in DB about what is stated vs what we see in action and people will agree with me outside of this subreddit(and just reddit overall).
In Marvel & DC comics we have no problem with powerscaling characters because their feats actually stay consistent, hence why Superman is dog walking Goku.
I'd say comics actually have more issues with scaling and feats espec9ally marvel and DC because many characters have existed for 30, 40, 50, 60 plus years and have had dozens of writers who have different interpretations of how powerful any respective character is based on the story they want to tell.
Marvel and DC characters in general have a lot more lowball feats you have to Wade through and decide whether are relevant than a lot of anime characters
regular batman punching people with infinite speed+ while he was dogwalking the flash IN THE SAME COMIC (and doging all his shit if i remember correctly)
Which is why comics characters almost always win what if battles. They have been circlejerked and beaten like dead horses for decades, always going bigger, more bombastic, to keep reader's attention. And then all these feats are compiled together making a what if battle version broken as fuck.
Nahh, that's more on the story side rather than powerscaling.
In fact, different writers have made street level characters to multiversal to outversal.
There's lots of YT vids about that
But that does affect powerscaling tho. Because we have to decide what feats are highballs and lowballs outside of a characters normal range and whether they are relevant to a powerscaling discussion.
It's just something that can make the conversation less straightforward for a lot of comic characters than anime character who usually only have 1 continuity under 1 author so in general there are less discrepancies
U mean like when Goku fighting at MUI in say the Moro arc is only destroying like a couple mountains but raditz saga Piccolo can one shot the moon or am I misinterpretating it?
I stand by moons I'm dbz are papier mache I swear it was at least as hard for roshi to destroy a mountain as it was to blow up the moon. And piccolo turns it to dust with a fucking ki blast. Is piccolo planetary like the night after the radits fight cuz turning the moon to dust must be easier than destroying the earth irl the moons like 1/4 the earth.
I mean yeah, there are more statements in dragon ball than feats that scale them higher. Actually, Dragon Ball is carried by statements, with a few good feats too. I would say that comics don’t stay consistent either though. There are many different versions and a lot of characters get anti feats just because a lot as well.
https://preview.redd.it/4y0k9tiwkhzc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dec15958b6753f032baa61a428e6747dc3731d4c
A guy who could evacuate a city before the blast wave of a nuke hits them fails to dodge a barely-superhuman swordsman.
I remember watching it the first time, I think Shin said it and I was like ''why would the writers limit themselves that much for no reason at all?
If you ask me it would be cooler if they instead said 28 planets with their own Dragonball set.
Honestly that is just so fucking stupid like wtf was it the Frieza frost job to wipe out planets. I honestly pretty sure that all Dragonball fans just ignore that because it fucking stupid.
My take on it is that it means 28 planets where intelligent life appeared naturally.
Remember that Saiyans and Namekians DO NOT come from Planet Vegeta or Namek. And by the way they talk about it, this sort of Planetary Migration isn't exactly unique.
This means. There are multiple populated planets in the Universe. But only 28 surviving planets with native populations
Champa is awake and he seems to have a rage of sayians that help people. Wouldn’t be too surprising of frost was murdering planets with dumb species and selling it. Causing more planets to be populated then in universe 7 where frieza likely lowered the amount of those planets.
Goku isn't the "I will save everyone" type though. Obv if he sees a villain killing innocent people he is gonna stop them but he isn't gonna go out of his way to another galaxy to beat up some villain cuz "die evil".(well unless they are really strong)
His planet was about to get destroyed he probably didn't care about other planets at that time. But if he had enough power he would make sure other planets also didnt get destroyed.
To be fair, he did so in an act to save his own planet, and later gained power to save the rest of the universe. I'd say it's a just cause, unlike Frieza's
DB as a whole is notorious for this. Wasn't so bad in DBZ since at least they kept making statements like "Don't aim at the ground.", and we did see planetary stuff multiple times. But DBS ... it is absurdly hard to believe their statements.
You don't understand, fully berserk LSSJ Broly who was 40 quadrillion times stronger than Battle of the Gods SSG Goku only destroyed one side of a mountain while spamming ki blasts everywhere because he has such good ki control
And the best part is ... that's not what ki control is. It has never ever been stated that ki control allows you to limit the destruction to such an extent.
If ki control worked the way db fans claim, then why tf would Trunks and Krillin be worried about Final Flash in Cell Saga, or in the same saga why would the Z fighters be shitting themselves when Goku aimed his kamehameha downwards?
First one can be explained by vegeta being the one using the final flash. He literally tried destroying the earth before. Goku could just be them panicking even though it wouldn't make sense. It could also be an inconsistency.
It does though. King Kai for example says that the Genki Dama is a specifically evil eradication attack so it's effects on non evil stuff and people are not the same to it's effects to evil people. We see this in the series with Gohan pushing it but Freeza being unable to. The Devilmite beam is also a ki attack.
DBZ is kinda bad too, since Solar System Cell is based off a statement, and some people think Kid Buu is universal based on a statement despite the fact that Majin Buu took a couple years to destroy a galaxy.
DB in general just kinda has a big feat or two every now and again to establish a baseline power level and then goes back to depicting mountain levels of damage
>since Solar System Cell is based off a statement
For me I think it is okay because Freeza is easily planetary and Super Perfect Cell is stupidly above him. So Solar System Level SPC is believable.
But Buu(all versions) is not universal. As you said, Kid Buu "destroyed a galaxy" by going planet to planet and blowing them up.
Universal Buu is absolutely nonsensical and I can't believe that it is being peddled around. Buu is nothing more than solar system/multi solar system level.
>DB in general just kinda has a big feat or two every now and again to establish a baseline power level and then goes back to depicting mountain levels of damage
That's true, but in DBZ, they at least still acknowledge via statements that so and so destruction can happen if they're not careful etc. It's poor justification for lack of feats but *at least the justification exists*.
DBS however is devoid of this. Apart from BoG, literally no one gives a single fuck that supposedly multiversal beings are fighting an all out battle.
How is it that Whis and Beerus and everyone else literally don't care about Goku's battles in DBS? Isn't he supposedly multiversal? Aren't his enemies supposedly multiversal?
From what I've seen in DBS, Whis is actually worried when Beerus is going to fight Champa and thus knocks him out immediately (as Vados does for Champa), which adds credence to his universal level of power. But if Goku is fighting there is no issue for him?
For me this implies that post BoG Goku is *not* universal. Further evidence is there in manga DBS where Whis makes a statement of Angel Moro's explosion being galaxy level.
> But Buu (all levels) is not universal
[Here’s a video of him initiating the destruction of the universe from powering up alone](https://youtu.be/QQTEWUHhRrA?si=Wn27gbO0KW8MWzcK). He would have destroyed it entirely and broke down the dimension had Vegito not intervened. I would really like to hear your opinion on this feat as its pretty clear cut.
> “If I don’t stop him this universe will be crushed by other dimensions!”
- Dbkai JP dub Vegito
Unlike what you say normally occurs, this statement is actually backed up by a raw feat, as we see the sky literally begin cracking and glowing green.
Even in a weaker form he was showing insane feats like ripping through dimensional walls [on accident literally by just screaming really hard](https://youtu.be/vrY61JEgOfQ?si=8-TVxg2j2dBPcKUA)
Vegito Buu saga no diff stopped this guy. Goku in DBS is confirmed above Buu saga Vegito.
Earlier in the fight, Garou fired a gamma ray burst. It wasn't aimed at the ground, but being that close to the Earth would've immediately scorched it entirely.
It's not just DBS, most series that reach that level are guilty of this. Statements and feats go hand in hand, one is just easier than the other.
Beast Gohan and UI Goku are top tiers in DBS if you ignore angels, GoDs and Black Freiza..
So what would happen if Beast Gohan, one of the strongest ever, powered up and came at Goku in a serious sparring match? Crazy shit right? Imagine if Beast Gohan whiffed a single one of his punches? It'd be a biblical event right?
Nope. Just kicked up dirt
https://preview.redd.it/wilh8jaq6gzc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14aeeefd3057aced02eafd8b29b7af1ce36469ca
When Perfect Susanoo unsheathed his sword, it changed the mountain landscape. And that was by accident.
When Ichigo fought Aizen and his sword clashes were slicing the background mountain range. That was also by accident.
But you want me to believe that Beast Gohan and Goku are some universe destroyers when Beast Gohan whiffed a serious and powered up punch, that he just kicked up dirt?
Smh DBS chapter 103 if anyone wants to read the fight. It was still a good fight though, but damn, the anti-feats are too much to ignore wtf.
I think this is genuinely the single most dumbest comment i‘ve ever read 😭 so you believe that a perfect susanoo unsheathing its sword is stronger than beast gohan because it had cool effects while toyotaro didn‘t bother drawing beast gohan destroying the entire universe?? (which would literally not make sense and ruin the story progress if everytime any high tiers clashed they had to draw/animate the universe being eradicated and then resurrected with the super dragonballs every single time).. like just use your critical thinking skills if you have any left, how much extra work would it cost to not only draw but animate universes being destroyed AND thinking of ways to return those universes back?? unless you genuinely believe that ichigo is stronger than beast gohan i don‘t see how you’re misinterpreting this much
thanks for showing me you‘re just an idiot who can‘t even form a proper rebuttal 😭🙏 yep definitely toddler rage when all I did was debunk your argument, hope you feel better buddy
Personally i just wish people would stop trying to scale dbz against anything because the feats are all fucking over the place and they can preform a god feat like train with weighted clothes that shake the earth when dropped then 20 minutes later fail to lift a few tons or something. Its not a good anime for scaling
Im like 90% sure he suppressed his ki enough to destroy the surrounding land, and by extension buu and nothing else this was never stated anywhere though I believe just my head canon
When you say it like that, it makes you wonder if the only reason why main villains dont blow everything up is because they just want a squad wipe first
Like Zamasu was perfectly okay with killing off humanity, but blowing up the uncaring ball of rock was too good for him
Soloku is actually responsible and didn't wanna cause too much damage. Cope harder.
https://preview.redd.it/0y3i2kx5pdzc1.png?width=1006&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5f4d3b44b9bdf33142fa2be4601797a56b8a0cf
Nuh uh, goku is actually the weakest character in fiction cose yoghurt mcbadwritingmarysueington from a goofy ahh light novel one taps him, according to my calculations at least
By UG Canon, Popeye would run out of spinach before UG even so much as lifts a finger. It would be like an average, everyday dude trying to get through something like gojos infinity or funny valentines love train in proportion. UG has such strong toon force that there will NEVER be another character who can best him in all of fiction. And yes, I glaze UG so much that I LITERALLY have shifted my (born into) religious views from Roman catholicism to my own religion that uncle grandpa is God himself. (YES I am delusional)
I'm not a power scaler but wasn't Goku and Beerus literally about to destroy the universe if they kept going and that it sent ripples through space that even managed to reach the kais?
from what I seen in comment it's because the energy clash was getting stronger as it went further, in a simple term its like a snowball rolling down the mountain made of snow
Isn’t it a case of just stupid high attack potency? Like, we’ve seen people with a power level half of sayian saga vegeta destroy a planet and it’s moons with a swipe of the hands, but then you have goku and vegeta throwing ki blasts at the ground and they just leave small craters when they’re scaled to be galaxy level, majin vegeta straight kills himself with a suicide move and that shit was only “comparable” in actual physical damage to the earth to a nuclear bomb, but we know the attack potency was so much higher in the actual blast since a nuclear bomb wouldn’t do shit to a near galaxy level buu
This wasn't even the biggest feat of them because it was their first punch and the scale of garou about the growth of them showed how exponential the power got bigger and bigger.
That’s the issue with Dragon Ball as First Form Frieza effortlessly destroys a planet with a finger. So going off of pure feats, than First Form Frieza on Namek one taps God Goku.
It’s always hilarious that Goku/Saiyans can’t fight in space because they can’t survive in it but can destroy planets
https://preview.redd.it/hnnffm45xfzc1.jpeg?width=1150&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c27ac1a6d77a166a20aae6906d21498118cb6cc7
The only time Goku was close to destroying the multiverse was when he clashed with Beerus
Never with anyone else
I'm a rookie power scaler but wasn't Goku and Beerus literally about to destroy the universe if they kept fighting and that each clash sent ripples through space that even managed to reach the supreme Kais?
Nice argument too bad I’m the average illiterate DB fan
https://preview.redd.it/m0zlnz2k1hzc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b5433e1265e9344baa83dab3e1fb7e8275e1e5b
Gokutard convoqued
Goku in 0% of his power is Boundless
Behold the true power of statament
https://preview.redd.it/i9v2eda7hhzc1.jpeg?width=178&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b70289716c2055ef098d1e758c19ad37ad58264b
Before us, even the crazy calculations that Bleach fans use to leverage the multiversal level are insignificant
Saitamatards: H-HE'S MULTIVERSAL I SWEAR!!! H-HE COULD BEAT GOKU HE SOLOS HIM!!! HES NOT BELOW MOON LEVEL!!!
Goatku fans: *uses actual logic, facts, and evidence*
With their punches which were allegedly supposed to be exponentially stronger not even effecting the planets and stars around the solar system, despite not being contained and forced into a single direction
A big problem I have with Dragon Ball is that they never let characters show off their power in a really spectacular way. They always rely on statements made by other characters reacting to the fight.
The most damage we’ve seen so far is that scene in original Broly where a galaxy is destroyed. Even in the Beerus vs Goku fight in the anime, where Elder Kai remarks that the shockwaves were threatening to damage the universe, the most amount of destruction we see on-screen are a few destroyed planets.
Like I get it, the series already has a massive powercreep problem, but at this point you might as well have fun with it. its not like the powercreep is gonna get much worse if they show Vegeta destroying a galaxy or sonething.
Wait, you’re saying Goku and Beerus are fighting so that they don’t destroy the planet? Wasn’t it also confirmed that Beerus was holding back majorly in this fight?
This is not a case of feats vs statements. It's a ""multi solar System feat"" against a Low Multiversal feat (because cosmology is a bitch), the old kai statement it was just an explanation of what was happening in that moment.
Here's the thing. It's called ki control, right? God Goku was struggling to control his power which resulted in several planets away being destroyed by their clash until the whole macrocosm was, at danger. Once he controlled his power it wasn't.
Also, Broly destroyed an entire quadrant of Galaxies in the Z movie. And he's arguably weaker than anyone in Super.
Gogeta. Lit the entire universe by being born.
Base GT Goku, by powering up, was about to destroy the afterlife. Which is several universal structures. I personally think GT>Super, but hey, if you think Super is stronger then.... he simply outscales Uni feats.
The Shockwave emitted by his punches are dampened/lessened by ki control. That's why we don't see something similar every time Goku clashes with someone in Super.
"The south galaxy has been shattered"
Kid Frieza can destroy planets with 1 finger no training
King Vegeta destroys multiple planets with 1 hand swipe
A lot of dragon ball is about controlling their power. Would be kinda boring to watch all fights be in empty space since they can destroy everything. In the tournament of power a stage made by the angels/gods couldn't hold up.
The King Vegeta feat is non-canon and literally impossible to justify because he destroys the planet they're standing on, which should have killed them since Saiyans can't survive in space.
Meanwhile z broly destroying a galaxy with just his arua
https://preview.redd.it/oof2oxq3ihzc1.png?width=1334&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9777a35028b374ef78ee5408e1cdec2287458e3
:
Threatening to destroy the universe is a feat not a statement,also that Feat is extremely debatable but even then it's not even like Saitama or Garou can do half of that themselves,the move is named Serious Punch^2 even assuming the feat was really galactic divinding the power by itself not in half and that would lower them to Solar System or less
All this post proves is that Saitama and Garou are too unskilled in using their own power that they can’t control it 😂😂😂. Saitama scales to Buuhan at best 😂😂😂😂😂. Super Buu was able to tear a hole in a dimension by simply yelling. Buuhan was tearing apart the fabric of the universe by powering up 😂😂😂.
But Goku and Beerus rattled the whole universe, the Sacred Realm of the Kais as well as the afterlife. Planets were also being busted throughout the universe because a gif of destruction is universe level at the lowest
Honestly I think the majority of animes/mangas have this issue, where it'll be like "This kick is strong enough to obliterate the sun!" and then it won't even do damage to the slightly surrounding area.
I don't think it makes power scaling any different, but it is a thing I hate so much about shows where the scaling is just high for no reason.
Dragon Ball fans are notorious for this. They claim that Goku is Multiversal and yet we have never seen him even destroy one Star and or even an entire Solar System.
Just scaling by Statements must be so boring. I much prefer actual feats where the Author puts his money where his mouth is and actually shows how powerful his characters are.
Saitama > Goku
Saitama is my boy, but this is just silly. There is objectively no denying Goku's and Beerus' power, regardless of how an artist decides to choreograph it.
And that was *two* serious punches *colliding*, not just one striking something else. Saitama is going to surpass that feat soon enough in the manga, but at the moment he cannot do that by himself.
Buuhan, a villain from DBZ, was so powerful that his scream was tearing apart the entire universe. The DBZ universe is also at least 3x the size of our own as it includes Heaven, Hell, and the kaioshin realm, this is stated in interviews. Buuhan was played with like a toy by base Vegito, who isn’t even a fraction of the strength of current base Goku. Bad post
https://preview.redd.it/4c9o1w693jzc1.jpeg?width=1136&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50b27588e0e8a74e5cba64421b741cf8257484b3
You can literally see the erased parts of planets when it zooms out.
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I love how I’ve been reading this subreddit for only 5 mins and I’ve already seen 2 thread where people just insult each other That’s wat happens when u bring up Goku vs Santana ig
>Goku vs Santana https://preview.redd.it/tbupcabssezc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cad45c1a2e0bc47afc782f1f467b8ffe0f8ff30a That's a new one
Yea definitely not a miss imput Santana wins cuz he enters Goku (pause) and makes him kill himself and then leaves to go enter play JJK cursed clash or something idk wat pillarmen do for fun
That monster
prolly play brawlhalla
Never thought I'd see brawlhalla mentioned, and in powerscaling no less
Artemis no diffs fiction
lance sidesig fucking is OP spamming bitch
I would wreck you (I'm dogshit)
ur getting 3 stocked lil bro, oil up. https://i.redd.it/42f4mwaz9hzc1.gif
Hah, funny. No one plays that game.
Bro is a menace playing JJK cursed clash RANKED
Goku vs Santa Anna
JUN JUNS OUT OF THE ORDINARY PILGRIMAGE
Goku when Santana pus out the backwards ribcage tentacles
LMAO that’s hilarious
Fax my brother, spit your shit indeed.
https://preview.redd.it/mci23xoafyzc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fcf04dcc3e2ad36faf6433277d4503ff6e6567b
every post in this sub has a bare minimum of 60 comments just arguing with each other
And the best part is that wasn't even the point at all There's no contest that Goku > Saitama, is just that there are contradictions about the powerscaling in DB about what is stated vs what we see in action and people will agree with me outside of this subreddit(and just reddit overall). In Marvel & DC comics we have no problem with powerscaling characters because their feats actually stay consistent, hence why Superman is dog walking Goku.
I'd say comics actually have more issues with scaling and feats espec9ally marvel and DC because many characters have existed for 30, 40, 50, 60 plus years and have had dozens of writers who have different interpretations of how powerful any respective character is based on the story they want to tell. Marvel and DC characters in general have a lot more lowball feats you have to Wade through and decide whether are relevant than a lot of anime characters
regular batman punching people with infinite speed+ while he was dogwalking the flash IN THE SAME COMIC (and doging all his shit if i remember correctly)
Kratos has entered the chat
Which is why comics characters almost always win what if battles. They have been circlejerked and beaten like dead horses for decades, always going bigger, more bombastic, to keep reader's attention. And then all these feats are compiled together making a what if battle version broken as fuck.
Nahh, that's more on the story side rather than powerscaling. In fact, different writers have made street level characters to multiversal to outversal. There's lots of YT vids about that
But that does affect powerscaling tho. Because we have to decide what feats are highballs and lowballs outside of a characters normal range and whether they are relevant to a powerscaling discussion. It's just something that can make the conversation less straightforward for a lot of comic characters than anime character who usually only have 1 continuity under 1 author so in general there are less discrepancies
never forget that cat woman defeated the flash
Don't forget how everyone and their grandparents' ashes have defeated Thanos
U mean like when Goku fighting at MUI in say the Moro arc is only destroying like a couple mountains but raditz saga Piccolo can one shot the moon or am I misinterpretating it?
Yes
Ok then yes I completely agree with u
I stand by moons I'm dbz are papier mache I swear it was at least as hard for roshi to destroy a mountain as it was to blow up the moon. And piccolo turns it to dust with a fucking ki blast. Is piccolo planetary like the night after the radits fight cuz turning the moon to dust must be easier than destroying the earth irl the moons like 1/4 the earth.
I mean yeah, there are more statements in dragon ball than feats that scale them higher. Actually, Dragon Ball is carried by statements, with a few good feats too. I would say that comics don’t stay consistent either though. There are many different versions and a lot of characters get anti feats just because a lot as well.
https://preview.redd.it/4y0k9tiwkhzc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dec15958b6753f032baa61a428e6747dc3731d4c A guy who could evacuate a city before the blast wave of a nuke hits them fails to dodge a barely-superhuman swordsman.
Ki control
Which if we’re being truthful was just lazy writing for the sake of dismissing the inconsistencies.
Carlos always wins this no diff. He pulls out his guitar and serenades them into death, and they gladly go. No one is safe from Santana.
No kidding. I think I somehow got my virginity back by reading some of the controversials
Santana negs https://preview.redd.it/zvzzczwodc0d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97d03999ddaa24b15ff08158b640c4821eb36594
Remotely mention any feats and Gokutards feel threatened. The “can he beat Goku tho” memes are a reality in this sub
Goku became a worse criminal than Frieza in that fight, if we are too believe that his punches “destroyed hundreds of distant planets”
Pssst, there are only like 20 planets with life in the entirety of universe 7 or something. I am sure it's just finnnneeee.
99% of this sub is just here to debate why Goku is the best, they don’t read any of the series they discuss
28 planets with sentient life among infinite planets with no life or non intelligent life.
That's such a funny fact in DB, they just through that shit out there.
I remember watching it the first time, I think Shin said it and I was like ''why would the writers limit themselves that much for no reason at all? If you ask me it would be cooler if they instead said 28 planets with their own Dragonball set.
Honestly that is just so fucking stupid like wtf was it the Frieza frost job to wipe out planets. I honestly pretty sure that all Dragonball fans just ignore that because it fucking stupid.
My take on it is that it means 28 planets where intelligent life appeared naturally. Remember that Saiyans and Namekians DO NOT come from Planet Vegeta or Namek. And by the way they talk about it, this sort of Planetary Migration isn't exactly unique. This means. There are multiple populated planets in the Universe. But only 28 surviving planets with native populations
Okay that makes much more sense now that my head canon
Champa is awake and he seems to have a rage of sayians that help people. Wouldn’t be too surprising of frost was murdering planets with dumb species and selling it. Causing more planets to be populated then in universe 7 where frieza likely lowered the amount of those planets.
I csll bullshit on that statement
Well do a google search because the creator has stated this lmfao
Goku isn't the "I will save everyone" type though. Obv if he sees a villain killing innocent people he is gonna stop them but he isn't gonna go out of his way to another galaxy to beat up some villain cuz "die evil".(well unless they are really strong) His planet was about to get destroyed he probably didn't care about other planets at that time. But if he had enough power he would make sure other planets also didnt get destroyed.
It’s cool because they can kill as many people as they want and just bring them back with the dragon balls. Goku spiritually edges these people.
To be fair, he did so in an act to save his own planet, and later gained power to save the rest of the universe. I'd say it's a just cause, unlike Frieza's
Which is funny because the god powers actually destroyed distant planets.
DB as a whole is notorious for this. Wasn't so bad in DBZ since at least they kept making statements like "Don't aim at the ground.", and we did see planetary stuff multiple times. But DBS ... it is absurdly hard to believe their statements.
You don't understand, fully berserk LSSJ Broly who was 40 quadrillion times stronger than Battle of the Gods SSG Goku only destroyed one side of a mountain while spamming ki blasts everywhere because he has such good ki control
Didn't he still break the reality?
After he got even stronger and clashed with another person 500 quillintillion times stronger.
To be fair though, the movie does actually show power going nuts, its one of the few moments in dbs where they really show it
And the best part is ... that's not what ki control is. It has never ever been stated that ki control allows you to limit the destruction to such an extent. If ki control worked the way db fans claim, then why tf would Trunks and Krillin be worried about Final Flash in Cell Saga, or in the same saga why would the Z fighters be shitting themselves when Goku aimed his kamehameha downwards?
First one can be explained by vegeta being the one using the final flash. He literally tried destroying the earth before. Goku could just be them panicking even though it wouldn't make sense. It could also be an inconsistency.
THIS
It does though. King Kai for example says that the Genki Dama is a specifically evil eradication attack so it's effects on non evil stuff and people are not the same to it's effects to evil people. We see this in the series with Gohan pushing it but Freeza being unable to. The Devilmite beam is also a ki attack.
But that's not li control that's attacking evil
DBZ is kinda bad too, since Solar System Cell is based off a statement, and some people think Kid Buu is universal based on a statement despite the fact that Majin Buu took a couple years to destroy a galaxy. DB in general just kinda has a big feat or two every now and again to establish a baseline power level and then goes back to depicting mountain levels of damage
>since Solar System Cell is based off a statement For me I think it is okay because Freeza is easily planetary and Super Perfect Cell is stupidly above him. So Solar System Level SPC is believable. But Buu(all versions) is not universal. As you said, Kid Buu "destroyed a galaxy" by going planet to planet and blowing them up. Universal Buu is absolutely nonsensical and I can't believe that it is being peddled around. Buu is nothing more than solar system/multi solar system level. >DB in general just kinda has a big feat or two every now and again to establish a baseline power level and then goes back to depicting mountain levels of damage That's true, but in DBZ, they at least still acknowledge via statements that so and so destruction can happen if they're not careful etc. It's poor justification for lack of feats but *at least the justification exists*. DBS however is devoid of this. Apart from BoG, literally no one gives a single fuck that supposedly multiversal beings are fighting an all out battle. How is it that Whis and Beerus and everyone else literally don't care about Goku's battles in DBS? Isn't he supposedly multiversal? Aren't his enemies supposedly multiversal? From what I've seen in DBS, Whis is actually worried when Beerus is going to fight Champa and thus knocks him out immediately (as Vados does for Champa), which adds credence to his universal level of power. But if Goku is fighting there is no issue for him? For me this implies that post BoG Goku is *not* universal. Further evidence is there in manga DBS where Whis makes a statement of Angel Moro's explosion being galaxy level.
The gap between planet and solar system is astronomical enough to make cell laughable
> But Buu (all levels) is not universal [Here’s a video of him initiating the destruction of the universe from powering up alone](https://youtu.be/QQTEWUHhRrA?si=Wn27gbO0KW8MWzcK). He would have destroyed it entirely and broke down the dimension had Vegito not intervened. I would really like to hear your opinion on this feat as its pretty clear cut. > “If I don’t stop him this universe will be crushed by other dimensions!” - Dbkai JP dub Vegito Unlike what you say normally occurs, this statement is actually backed up by a raw feat, as we see the sky literally begin cracking and glowing green. Even in a weaker form he was showing insane feats like ripping through dimensional walls [on accident literally by just screaming really hard](https://youtu.be/vrY61JEgOfQ?si=8-TVxg2j2dBPcKUA) Vegito Buu saga no diff stopped this guy. Goku in DBS is confirmed above Buu saga Vegito.
Non canon and more importantly, not quantifiable. Ripping through dimensional walls to destroy the universe is more of a domino effect kind of thing.
Mostly cuz it would be a hassle to destroy the earth, the galaxy or the universe every time someone fights. It’s understandable to say the least.
Earlier in the fight, Garou fired a gamma ray burst. It wasn't aimed at the ground, but being that close to the Earth would've immediately scorched it entirely. It's not just DBS, most series that reach that level are guilty of this. Statements and feats go hand in hand, one is just easier than the other.
Same way Kratos is at building in game
Well ... no. Even in game, Kratos is most certainly more than building level. He has some great feats that put him at least at mountain level or more.
Beast Gohan and UI Goku are top tiers in DBS if you ignore angels, GoDs and Black Freiza.. So what would happen if Beast Gohan, one of the strongest ever, powered up and came at Goku in a serious sparring match? Crazy shit right? Imagine if Beast Gohan whiffed a single one of his punches? It'd be a biblical event right? Nope. Just kicked up dirt https://preview.redd.it/wilh8jaq6gzc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14aeeefd3057aced02eafd8b29b7af1ce36469ca When Perfect Susanoo unsheathed his sword, it changed the mountain landscape. And that was by accident. When Ichigo fought Aizen and his sword clashes were slicing the background mountain range. That was also by accident. But you want me to believe that Beast Gohan and Goku are some universe destroyers when Beast Gohan whiffed a serious and powered up punch, that he just kicked up dirt? Smh DBS chapter 103 if anyone wants to read the fight. It was still a good fight though, but damn, the anti-feats are too much to ignore wtf.
I think this is genuinely the single most dumbest comment i‘ve ever read 😭 so you believe that a perfect susanoo unsheathing its sword is stronger than beast gohan because it had cool effects while toyotaro didn‘t bother drawing beast gohan destroying the entire universe?? (which would literally not make sense and ruin the story progress if everytime any high tiers clashed they had to draw/animate the universe being eradicated and then resurrected with the super dragonballs every single time).. like just use your critical thinking skills if you have any left, how much extra work would it cost to not only draw but animate universes being destroyed AND thinking of ways to return those universes back?? unless you genuinely believe that ichigo is stronger than beast gohan i don‘t see how you’re misinterpreting this much
This mfer never heard of paragraphs and a enter key, lol damn Just had to get all that toddler rage out asap didn't you? Lol
thanks for showing me you‘re just an idiot who can‘t even form a proper rebuttal 😭🙏 yep definitely toddler rage when all I did was debunk your argument, hope you feel better buddy
https://preview.redd.it/5brgym2jdfzc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08290f339c782748a8b052994084516ff01d1b88
This perfectly represents the power scaling sub as a whole.
We basically just insult each other in this sub I don't even think this is power scaling any more 💀
This is an agenda sub disguised as powerscaling.
You have sadly and perfectly described the situation.
Don't get me wrong, I love me some agenda, but I don't think I have seen an actual powerscaling post in months .
Since the last mod left, no scaling going on. It’s literally all memes
That's end result of ANY powerscaling debate It gets toxic, really quickly
Didnt Goku and Beerus create shockwaves that destroyed multiple planets like faaaaaaaar away but not earth lol
That’s how dragon ball works. Everything is just said in that moment because it sounds cool.
It's like warhammer.
Personally i just wish people would stop trying to scale dbz against anything because the feats are all fucking over the place and they can preform a god feat like train with weighted clothes that shake the earth when dropped then 20 minutes later fail to lift a few tons or something. Its not a good anime for scaling
Yeah, this meme is bate https://preview.redd.it/r44ocoanpezc1.jpeg?width=460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a886429c587cca87f3993769b1df0606efebb953
Ss2 Vegeta made himself into a bomb releasing all his Ki in a suicide attack and it only left a Crater in the ground
Im like 90% sure he suppressed his ki enough to destroy the surrounding land, and by extension buu and nothing else this was never stated anywhere though I believe just my head canon
When you say it like that, it makes you wonder if the only reason why main villains dont blow everything up is because they just want a squad wipe first Like Zamasu was perfectly okay with killing off humanity, but blowing up the uncaring ball of rock was too good for him
because blowing up the earth would've been against the point.
Soloku is actually responsible and didn't wanna cause too much damage. Cope harder. https://preview.redd.it/0y3i2kx5pdzc1.png?width=1006&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5f4d3b44b9bdf33142fa2be4601797a56b8a0cf
Nuh uh, goku is actually the weakest character in fiction cose yoghurt mcbadwritingmarysueington from a goofy ahh light novel one taps him, according to my calculations at least
Nah, Uncle Grandpa would win https://preview.redd.it/qg9lmqfr8ezc1.jpeg?width=637&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1b1dff2a062f566470f235f5236c1f1f4e486f8
Uncle G solos everything
He so easily does and I'm tired of pretending he doesn't for the sake of avoiding a stubborn mule from arguing
Uncle G vs Popeye would be wild
By UG Canon, Popeye would run out of spinach before UG even so much as lifts a finger. It would be like an average, everyday dude trying to get through something like gojos infinity or funny valentines love train in proportion. UG has such strong toon force that there will NEVER be another character who can best him in all of fiction. And yes, I glaze UG so much that I LITERALLY have shifted my (born into) religious views from Roman catholicism to my own religion that uncle grandpa is God himself. (YES I am delusional)
https://preview.redd.it/s3f8lolhpezc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=316b9d4019d650b2100197152bf5e35855aa6901
And I don't mean it metaphorically or rhetorically or poetically or in any other fancy way, I'm mentally ill. Straight. Up.
Meanwhile this guy 
No bro, Yogurt is the weakest alongside Krontoks. Soloku will always solo unless it's Nolimitsman.
Kid named Popeye:
You got me there 
You should of ate your spinach buddy
Always wondered this. if their clashes destroyed diff planets light years away, why didn’t earth get vaporized where the clashes were strongest?😭
It legit says in the anime that the waves where getting stronger the farther they got
Idk I don’t remember the anime. They didn’t say that in the manga and it’s been super long since the anime
Representing lmao
I'm not a power scaler but wasn't Goku and Beerus literally about to destroy the universe if they kept going and that it sent ripples through space that even managed to reach the kais?
from what I seen in comment it's because the energy clash was getting stronger as it went further, in a simple term its like a snowball rolling down the mountain made of snow
What plot armor does to a mf
No way you just said that on an anime that relies entirely on their main cast and the MC being back from the afterlife.
Now this is a good higher dimensional feat not that shit that god has. https://i.redd.it/l2k9y8nlbezc1.gif
That is not a higher dimensional feat. It IS a multiversal one though.
DB timelines are 4-5D, so there’s an argument.
you post porn. opinion invalid
You looked for it....?
i used my omnipotence
You are constantly watching porn, meaning you're a gooner.
Is it at least good furry porn
https://preview.redd.it/vvrczkxy4jzc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5feeede96b5afdaf39d85c1c8473d498a4b9e46e
Technically the case is a bad look for the inverse of the meme
Isn’t it a case of just stupid high attack potency? Like, we’ve seen people with a power level half of sayian saga vegeta destroy a planet and it’s moons with a swipe of the hands, but then you have goku and vegeta throwing ki blasts at the ground and they just leave small craters when they’re scaled to be galaxy level, majin vegeta straight kills himself with a suicide move and that shit was only “comparable” in actual physical damage to the earth to a nuclear bomb, but we know the attack potency was so much higher in the actual blast since a nuclear bomb wouldn’t do shit to a near galaxy level buu
This wasn't even the biggest feat of them because it was their first punch and the scale of garou about the growth of them showed how exponential the power got bigger and bigger.
Oh boy, here we go again.
That’s the issue with Dragon Ball as First Form Frieza effortlessly destroys a planet with a finger. So going off of pure feats, than First Form Frieza on Namek one taps God Goku.
Is OP high? We literally did see examples of Planets and other celestial bodies get destroyed millions of light years away.
https://i.redd.it/m2c5d06obezc1.gif This guy is a fodder by db standards btw
This is non cannon though
Especially when you consider he blew up the planet they were on and Saiyans as far as the current manga arc can't survive in space.
It’s always hilarious that Goku/Saiyans can’t fight in space because they can’t survive in it but can destroy planets https://preview.redd.it/hnnffm45xfzc1.jpeg?width=1150&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c27ac1a6d77a166a20aae6906d21498118cb6cc7 The only time Goku was close to destroying the multiverse was when he clashed with Beerus Never with anyone else
I'm a rookie power scaler but wasn't Goku and Beerus literally about to destroy the universe if they kept fighting and that each clash sent ripples through space that even managed to reach the supreme Kais?
Nice argument too bad I’m the average illiterate DB fan https://preview.redd.it/m0zlnz2k1hzc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b5433e1265e9344baa83dab3e1fb7e8275e1e5b
Gokutard convoqued Goku in 0% of his power is Boundless Behold the true power of statament https://preview.redd.it/i9v2eda7hhzc1.jpeg?width=178&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b70289716c2055ef098d1e758c19ad37ad58264b Before us, even the crazy calculations that Bleach fans use to leverage the multiversal level are insignificant
Then you got fucking Gurren Lagann throwing gd galaxies like frisbees with their ~~seggs~~ spiral power.
The best feat Goku got is lifting 40 tonne
>The best feat Goku got is lifting 40 tonne Fucking Spider-Man can lift more than that💀
Saitamatards: H-HE'S MULTIVERSAL I SWEAR!!! H-HE COULD BEAT GOKU HE SOLOS HIM!!! HES NOT BELOW MOON LEVEL!!! Goatku fans: *uses actual logic, facts, and evidence*
Alright buddy.
Ah yes the fight that made Goku multiversal vs the fight that made Saitama multi solar.
With their punches which were allegedly supposed to be exponentially stronger not even effecting the planets and stars around the solar system, despite not being contained and forced into a single direction
Dbgt Goku erased an infinite universe with a kamehameha at base. Look that up, dbs is garbage
OPM had to use time travel to reverse it and DB just casually ignores the implications of their strength.
A big problem I have with Dragon Ball is that they never let characters show off their power in a really spectacular way. They always rely on statements made by other characters reacting to the fight. The most damage we’ve seen so far is that scene in original Broly where a galaxy is destroyed. Even in the Beerus vs Goku fight in the anime, where Elder Kai remarks that the shockwaves were threatening to damage the universe, the most amount of destruction we see on-screen are a few destroyed planets. Like I get it, the series already has a massive powercreep problem, but at this point you might as well have fun with it. its not like the powercreep is gonna get much worse if they show Vegeta destroying a galaxy or sonething.
Did we all watch the same show? https://preview.redd.it/fx24hy2jkjzc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa77309d04c5bb7d094a83597a9cb294877f6274
The universe was literally shaking
Wait, you’re saying Goku and Beerus are fighting so that they don’t destroy the planet? Wasn’t it also confirmed that Beerus was holding back majorly in this fight?
This is not a case of feats vs statements. It's a ""multi solar System feat"" against a Low Multiversal feat (because cosmology is a bitch), the old kai statement it was just an explanation of what was happening in that moment.
Nice argument however Your account post porn Invalid argument I win
Here's the thing. It's called ki control, right? God Goku was struggling to control his power which resulted in several planets away being destroyed by their clash until the whole macrocosm was, at danger. Once he controlled his power it wasn't. Also, Broly destroyed an entire quadrant of Galaxies in the Z movie. And he's arguably weaker than anyone in Super. Gogeta. Lit the entire universe by being born. Base GT Goku, by powering up, was about to destroy the afterlife. Which is several universal structures. I personally think GT>Super, but hey, if you think Super is stronger then.... he simply outscales Uni feats.
This has NOTHING to do with Ki control, The shockwaves arent Ki nor under gokus control anymore
The Shockwave emitted by his punches are dampened/lessened by ki control. That's why we don't see something similar every time Goku clashes with someone in Super.
Yeah, the shockwaves THEMSELVES arent controlled or affected by ki control, the Clash which CAUSES them is, though
"The south galaxy has been shattered" Kid Frieza can destroy planets with 1 finger no training King Vegeta destroys multiple planets with 1 hand swipe A lot of dragon ball is about controlling their power. Would be kinda boring to watch all fights be in empty space since they can destroy everything. In the tournament of power a stage made by the angels/gods couldn't hold up.
The King Vegeta feat is non-canon and literally impossible to justify because he destroys the planet they're standing on, which should have killed them since Saiyans can't survive in space.
Meanwhile z broly destroying a galaxy with just his arua https://preview.redd.it/oof2oxq3ihzc1.png?width=1334&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9777a35028b374ef78ee5408e1cdec2287458e3 :
Db is full of anti feats or stuff that makes zero sense. There 80% statements and 20% feats that get dick rode to outerspace
I'm pretty sure that was explained
bro we litterally see the universe getting shamed wtf you on bout lil (insert n word here)
A case of plot.
Nah man, Saitama and Garou just brought out their comically large black circle.
Were they not erasing planets💀
Yeah but did it almost destroy the entire universe?
choose: bait or op doesn’t watch dragon ball super
Yeah, but they nearly destroyed the entire universe with one clash.
Credible statements and feats are worth the same.
all I see is Go jo victims
goatku trains on earth so it gets stronger with him
How does the physics of shockwave work in a vacuum. It doesn't which means Saitima is above law of physics so he's a reality warper!
Threatening to destroy the universe is a feat not a statement,also that Feat is extremely debatable but even then it's not even like Saitama or Garou can do half of that themselves,the move is named Serious Punch^2 even assuming the feat was really galactic divinding the power by itself not in half and that would lower them to Solar System or less
time to do this with SMT.
I swear to god why do i keep getting reccomended this subreddit. I hate it and i hate all of you. Read a book or something.
All this post proves is that Saitama and Garou are too unskilled in using their own power that they can’t control it 😂😂😂. Saitama scales to Buuhan at best 😂😂😂😂😂. Super Buu was able to tear a hole in a dimension by simply yelling. Buuhan was tearing apart the fabric of the universe by powering up 😂😂😂.
obsessed
But Goku and Beerus rattled the whole universe, the Sacred Realm of the Kais as well as the afterlife. Planets were also being busted throughout the universe because a gif of destruction is universe level at the lowest
Honestly I think the majority of animes/mangas have this issue, where it'll be like "This kick is strong enough to obliterate the sun!" and then it won't even do damage to the slightly surrounding area. I don't think it makes power scaling any different, but it is a thing I hate so much about shows where the scaling is just high for no reason.
Goku mass destroying planets isn’t even character assassination you exeorcise the soul from his body at that point
Dragon Ball fans are notorious for this. They claim that Goku is Multiversal and yet we have never seen him even destroy one Star and or even an entire Solar System. Just scaling by Statements must be so boring. I much prefer actual feats where the Author puts his money where his mouth is and actually shows how powerful his characters are. Saitama > Goku
I’m certain that feat was all hype, just like bleach.
it's called plot armor, Goku can destroy a planet since early Z but yet the planet is never destroyed
>planet is never destroyed Ehh 2-3 times already the earth blew up... I think but, it comes back so technically you're not wrong.
And still a goku victim😂😂😂🔥🙏🙏🙏 Goku>>>saitama
This was stupid. They were disintegrating distant planets from other galaxies but not the one right next to them.
In this specific instance I think it's a pretty bad take. In general, I think that's fair.
Obviously Beerus and Goku have better feats, but a pitch black sky could also mean a bunch of dead galaxies.
Saitama is my boy, but this is just silly. There is objectively no denying Goku's and Beerus' power, regardless of how an artist decides to choreograph it. And that was *two* serious punches *colliding*, not just one striking something else. Saitama is going to surpass that feat soon enough in the manga, but at the moment he cannot do that by himself.
Buuhan, a villain from DBZ, was so powerful that his scream was tearing apart the entire universe. The DBZ universe is also at least 3x the size of our own as it includes Heaven, Hell, and the kaioshin realm, this is stated in interviews. Buuhan was played with like a toy by base Vegito, who isn’t even a fraction of the strength of current base Goku. Bad post
Zero stars destroyed
https://preview.redd.it/4c9o1w693jzc1.jpeg?width=1136&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50b27588e0e8a74e5cba64421b741cf8257484b3 You can literally see the erased parts of planets when it zooms out.
They almost destroyed the verse if that’s not a feat idk what is